Oh no, she did NOT say that, did she?
The world situation is grimly, staggeringly depressing as the fruits of failed conservative policies and politics come home to roost everywhere we turn. We need some escapist diversion, if only for a Saturday night.
Thank you, Lady Bunny.
How many of you have ever been to a drag show? My partner and I talk about politics frequently. Just yesterday, in a bout of frustration over war in the Middle East, he said, as he often does, "I tell ya, if I could be put in charge I would just. . .", and then he’s off. I don’t usually engage in that thought experiment, but if I were to do so, I might start by sending everyone in America to a drag show, like some benevolent queer dictator.
I have to confess, when I was single and out in the clubs, I had mixed feelings about drag. At first, in the early days of my coming out and maturity as a gay man, my discomfort was in part with the implicit challenge drag puts to anyone’s notions of gender. More on that in a minute. But rather often, my mixed feelings had more to do with the quality of the drag performance before me, rather than with drag per se.
Clubs that include drag shows operate rather like the amateur comedy circuit: there’s a lot of experimentation, and not everyone has great talent. But great talent and performance art takes refinement, and it’s important for communities to encourage experimentation and the growth of any performance art, be it comedy or gender bending lip synching or what have you.
But what is drag about? For those of you who have not encountered live drag, what purpose does it serve? Some in the gay community see it as a kind of sambo show, playing to the stereotypes of the wider society which believes that gay men really are or want to be women, or that lesbian women really want to be or are somehow men. In my experience, those same people are Log Cabin Republican types uncomfortable with their sexuality, riddled by nagging shame and often subsequently challenged when it comes to establishing bonds of intimacy. Too much baggage below decks.
Actually, drag is about many things. There are many different kinds of drag. There is, for example, the typical illusionist drag that makes of men very pretty, even hot, women, sometimes including transsexuals with their very own breasts, proudly displayed. This kind of drag does something all drag does: it challenges audience members to break free from socially constructed gender norms and their confinements, not to impose any alternate rigidity, but to free audience members to construct their own notions for themselves of what it means to be a man or woman, and therefore, how to relate to others as men and women.
By creating an illusion that is very attractive, these performers get past the thinking brain to that limbic, sexual part of the brain that activates desire, using its power to subvert socially constructed gender presumptions. This is probably why transsexuals are also the most vulnerable to violence: when some men find themselves attracted to transsexuals, the resulting rage and shame at themselves is often directed outward to the objects of their desire.
Your typical drag act includes some performers creating the illusion of a well known star, lip synching to her music. This of course continues the subversion of gender presumptions, but also provides the kind of campy illusionist entertainment by tribute that, when done well, is extremely fun and funny.
Then you have the other kind of drag, sometimes called "skag drag," which consciously seeks to alter the very notion of what people deem attractive, to subvert the pop culture’s narrow, oppressive notions of beauty. The message of this kind of drag is affirming and welcoming to all kinds of body types and looks. Through the artist’s rather aggressive display of what would commonly be considered shockingly unattractive, the performance creates a kind of cathartic, empowering experience for anyone watching. A close cousin to this type of drag involves the same kind of subversive "ugliness" played for laughs.
Aside from the female celebrity impersonators, some drag is not so much about creating the illusion of the opposite gender as it is about subverting gender norms and carving out a new space for a gleeful, individually constructed androgeny. The most famous example of this is Tim Curry’s performance in the film The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Then there are the drag queens or even female impersonators who do outright comedy. The Lady Bunny at the top of this post obviously does this. In fact, her act is a combination of a few strains of drag all wrapped up together. Her bawdy humor is one of the hallmarks of almost all drag performances, a kind of liberating use of language and repartee to amplify the gender subversive art of all drag. Sadly, the best I’ve ever seen, Christopher Peterson, has no video online (shame on you, Christopher!). He does a host of celebrity impersonations flawlessly, singing his own vocals and keeping up the nightclub banter with the precision of a virtuoso comedienne. You may have seen him as a deep voiced Lucille Ball in the 2001 film Rat Race.
Another in this genre is Esther Goldberg, who sticks to one persona, an original creation. In my opinion, this clip does not do her justice, but Esther specializes in a kind of borsht belt comedic timing and bawdy, Jewish grandmother persona to great effect before live audiences. Her one line audience reactions can be razor sharp and uproariously funny. Let’s not forget as well the drag kings of the world, who mine the same cultural material from the other side.
There are many kinds of drag, and your average drag performance is, well, just average. I often found myself in a club waiting impatiently for the drag show to end (it would be a bloodbath backstage if all the girls did not all get equal time, let me tell you). I typically had, shall we say, other objectives for my evening. But I’ve seen some fantastic drag performances, the best of which was performed by a very heavy latina whose stage presence while portraying the mariachi torch song ballad Paloma Negra left all the audience spellbound. I’ve seen Tony Bennett hold an audience in the palm of his hand with barely any physical movement, just his magnetism and warmth of spirit, and she performed in a little latin club with the same level of charisma. Unforgettable.
But good drag is all about playful fun, about loosening people up from their pretensions and their rigid notions of gender, of human identity. By doing so, drag finds the common denominator of what it is to be human, in a warm, inviting, non-judgmental spirit, and good drag does it with wit, passion and style. Good drag is real great fun.
Oh, and while we’re at it, this so-bad-it’s-good Wham clip is perhaps the gayest thing I’ve ever seen, though it isn’t drag. Take that, Atrios.
So, have you ever been to a live drag show before? What was your experience? What do you think of my first imaginary act as a benevolent despot to have every adult American attend a drag show? Would Jeff Goldstein survive, or would he throw his ankles in the air?
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KOBE!
IN DRAG!
fitz
Pach!!
Fitz! Ned! Jane! Pach! Rootz! Redd birds tomorrow! Lady Bunny = true national security!
John Bolton in drag….?
Hi Pach,
Do you think drag evolved from Elizabethan theater by way of British music-hall & comedy acts? Other (Japanese & (iirc) some Indian) cultures also had a theatrical tradition of all-male casts.
I understand how some gay folk could see it as a sambo show, but honestly what’s not to love about drag. And I do love to think of you as a benevolent queer dictator, Pach.
TRex is back!
And if Kobe was a person, he’d be dressed in bugle beads and doing Liza, that’s for sure.
Good post. Drag and similar gender discourse can be very interesting. For something even more thought provoking consider the more academic feminists who posit that there is no such thing as “drag” or that everyone practices a bit of “drag” whenever they put on any clothes or interact with society. If gender is socially constructed (and I mostly think it is) then pretty much every expression of gender is in fact a “drag show”.
Pach, how could you skip this?
I have never seen a live show, and always regretted that I never caught Ru-Paul’s old brunch show in Atlanta when we both lived there. Lady Bunny is fantastic! I always find the great performers I have seen on TV and in movies sincerely inspiring in a totally NOT cheesy way. As a congenitally demure and even repressed straight female, I have always wished that I could get up and really get over the top and cut loose the way the great drag performers do.
Pachacutec – thank you for the post and the great clip!
Well you haven’t lived until you’ve seen Valley of the Dolls performed in drag. The only woman was someone I’d gone to college with and it was put on up above the Mabuhay Gardens.
It was rather awe-inspiring.
Wonderful post, Pach. Always meant to catch Esther G but still haven’t. The world has loved drag since humanity began, there’s just no explaining the winningness of these performers in the human heart, they transcend all ideology and other bullshit, they outdo the best comics in their ability to knock all human bullshit on its ass.
Me late Limba-lovin dad LOVED cage aux folles at the National. Thing was GAY AS SHIT and he LOVED it.
Drag is incredibly useful and powerful, but it’s what it is – can’t & never will be harnessed for anything overt or political. Paradoxically, that’s it’s power.
Kobe’s not a person?
I thought Kobe was the Zen Master of the blog micro-chip implant Universe . . .
Eli at 10 — thank you!! Made my day!
Well you haven’t lived until you’ve seen Valley of the Dolls performed in drag.
What about an all-drag science-fiction movie?
Or I could post a clip of Divine’s version of “Walk Like A Man”…
/been to a drag show
/would have done the cher, but would have denied she was a he
Looks like Lady Bunny at Wigstock back in Thompkins Square Park, bravo. In spite of the stereotype (within the gay community itself), these gals are not necessarily uninvolved — don’t forget drag queens were in the front lines at the Stonewall back in ‘69. A couple of years ago, just before Wigstock the Dance Liberation Front lead the masses in doing the largest group of people doing the Locomotion for the Guinness Book of Records in protest against the enforcement of the 1920s segregation intended cabaret laws in NYC that forbade dancing in bars without a license, a law long forgotten until Giuliani revived it and Bloomberg continued in their efforts to “clean up” the city by keeping people from dancing in front of jukeboxes in bars and the like.
Last year’s Wigstock featured a very well-produced number about Iraq, with Iraqis being gunned down by soldiers of an occupying power, iconic images from Abu Ghraib and more. No camp, no irony, just a vignette that portrayed a take on current events.
Like you, Pach, when coming out I was nervous about drag, not being feminine and hating the stereotype of the bitchy drag queen. Now, I am secure enough in my identity to appreciate the drag queens for the very important role they play in our identity.
And if Kobe was a person, he’d be dressed in bugle beads and doing Liza, that’s for sure.
Jazz paws?
I was just thinking the other day how I needed to see a good drag show….given the state of the world and my depressing thoughts. I lived in SF for close to 15 years…left my heart there in ‘93…and haven’t seen many good drag shows since.
But I gotta tell you…I don’t remember the queens being so nasty to women as this one is. Maybe it’s just the across-the-board loss of civility and the overall increase of meanness that the Pugs have ushered into our once fine nation. Or maybe I am just tired of my genitalia being so publicized, judged and legislated. Or maybe it’s late and I’m tired and I miss SF of the late ’70’s. But that drag show didn’t make me laugh…nor did it lift my spirits.
It was like a straight man playing drag queen. And I guess we can blame the Pugs for that as well…starting back in the late ’80’s with the George I’s campaign, there was a big fat wedge placed between gay men and pro-choice feminists.
Hey, if there is a wedge…the Pugs will find it and use it until no one is laughing at anything.
The only drag king I remember is Lily Tomlin…others? Well…besides me on Halloween of 1978 or was it 1979? Damn was that fun! I had the most outrageous dildo hanging out of my pants. I scared people.
And Pach, you being DC area – what of the utter legend Ella Fitzgerald being run out of southeast before the wrecking ball of Tony the fuck Williams baseball shit?
Aw, now you’re making me nostalgic for my misspent youth, Oh Benevelent Queer Dictator.
Can we call you BQD for short?
Speaking of drag,
Pink Flamings was on last night.
Talk about a move that had something to offend everybody.
Speaking of drag: KQED is showing Victor/Victoria tonight at 9:30.
Lovely work, Pach.
When she was 4, my daughter first realized that the drag queens she saw on Pride Day were men. She called them “Cinderella Men”, and she saw them as a kind of guarantor that grownups could play dressup princess, and that play was not forever closed to adults.
She is 20 and still dresses up and pretends, but we call it acting now.
Speaking of drag,
Pink Flamings was on last night.
Now you’ve done it.
I feel so pedestrian.
Sadly the most legendary enduring drag stuff of DC has fallen, literally, before the wrecking ball of the corporate-welfare-sports bullshit complex.
I was a magnet for drag queens when I used to go to gay bars more often. Call me old fashioned, but I like men that wear men’s clothes.
It’s fun, but after a while it got to be really old for me personally. Especially when one in particular would try different costumes and wigs to try to fool me. He followed me out of the club one night, and followed me for a while. I hopped a cab and left him in the dust. Soon after, he approached me dressed as man, and chewed me out for being so judgmental, the whole experience took the shine off the glitter. I was never rude to these guys, and most were really cool.
I love camp, and kitsch to me is high art. I’ve just had some bad experiences with drag queens so for me I’m really not a fan.
When a straight man puts on a dress and goes on a sexual kick he is a Transvestite. When a man is a woman trapped in a man’s body and has a little operation he is a Transsexual. When a gay man has way too much fashion sense for one gender he is a Drag Queen. And when a tired little Latin boy puts on a dress, he is simply a boy in a dress!
– Miss Noxeema Jackson
To Wong Fu Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar
Thinking about drag kings just reminded me of the first couple of Eurythmics videos I saw – back when Annie Lennox was really working the androgyny. It was a very real intellectual and identity awakening moment for my little 12 yr old awkward-often-mistaken-for-boy self. Thank god for what MTV was when it started – (I am not so sure what it is up to, now).
I accidentally went into a gay bar once. I swear, I think everyone in that bar was gay.
Except for me and that cowboy I was dancin’ with.
Sorry to repeat myself and rant, but as I drive in on south capitol street every day heading toward my job at the library of congress, my eyes are forced to regard piles of bricks where DC’s drag brilliance used to reside and I am heartsick.
sp / sherocket,
I hear MTV has already played two videos this year.
In Laramie there is a fundraiser for the MAtthew Sheppard fund. Drag queen bingo, only drag show I’ve been to, and it brings out a real cast of characters, from Denver uber-queers to the former sheriff (from the time MAtthew was murdered) in his cowboy hat and handlebar mustache. Good times.
I hear MTV has already played two videos this year.
And they both sucked.
I loved what you wrote, Pach.
But I’m with Slade @ 20 on this performance. I just found it plain rude and cutting rather than funny. Don’t want to hear one more word about somebody else judging women’s genitalia.
As they say, if you don’t like it, you can’t have any. :)
Step off the stage, bitches…The Divine Mrs. D, the fiercest ruling diva, has come to rock your casbah!
;>)
For some strange reason, I’m suddenly remembering just how hideous Gene Hackman was in drag in Birdcage…
I love the nascent drag king movement the dyke youngsters are doing also. Guess I just love and am tickled by genderfuck – on my feet applauding every sincere effort. Bottom line – FUN.
Sharkbabe – I googled Ella Fitzgerald and Tony Williams (I assume you’re talking about the D.C. mayor) and could not figure it out – what are you referring to? Thank you.
P.S. I hope you’re feeling better?
Darkblack,
That makes me wish I had the email address to the Sith Lords daughter. I’m sure she would get a charge out of that.
Sadly, your typical plus-size drag queen looks a lot like Karl Rove — pudgy, pasty and unattractive — when the dress comes off…and it’s not all that uncommon for many of them to be conservative Republican, as well.
What a strange world.
McGee 41, thanks and I’m doin OK (when not, I disappear :)
here’s linky on what I’m talkin about dcwise
http://tinyurl.com/jhrtg
And, before there was a Stonewall, there was a Compton’s Cafeteria riot, right here in EssEff, in 1966.
http://www.comptonscafeteriariot.org/
Really fond memories of my years in NYC and my gay pals. Saw both kinds of shows, Pach. These were the best years of my life.
Lady Buny made me think of Philip Seymour Hoffman in Flawless. A queen who looked just like her taught me about food and beverage service technique. (Feed em like kings and treat em like queens.)
As a feminist I also think I agree with Alan #9 that everyone practices drag. I think we know that in some part of ourselves as pre-teens, then we get into it and forget.
And as a feminist, Bunny made me cranky too. Ha.
I just got home, folks. The post was preset; I wrote it earlier today.
Sorry to those of you who found the main link video distasteful. My apologies.
Nite everyone.
OT (but only from last thread)
And your little dog too…. – I think they are incompetent as political leaders. First, that their “policies” work for them (or better, ONCE worked for them) doesn’t lead to the conclusion that they are competent as political leaders or anything else; it is not particularly difficult to pour gas on a fire and claim it as strategy since people oooh and ahhhh at the fire itself without, at first really thinking about what is burning, till the fire truly runs out of control and burns them – and I am pretty sure that a majority of people in this country already feel burnt by TEAM LOSER. Second, there is the law of unintended consequences, which relates to the first and, to continue the analogy, their false belief that they do and can and always will be able to control the fire – which is bullshit, but they believe it b/c bullshit is all they have – if you unleash the dogs of war, oftimes the dogs of war bite the master, or something like that.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
schwa: I’m not enough of a historian to know. Maybe David E. will stop by and fill us in.
their false belief that they do and can and always will be able to control the fire – which is bullshit, but they believe it b/c bullshit is all they have
It’s not so much that they believe they can control the fire, so much as that they believe they can either convince you that the fire is not actually there, or that the fire is somehow a good thing.
Oilfieldguy @ 42:
Charge? Cash or certified check only.
;>)
Eli – It can only be that the fire is a good thing. They have nothing without fire, prometheans that they are.
Personally I prefer Drag Races, ya bitch!
Condomaniacs?
Eli – They do believe they can control the fire – they don’t question their master of the universe (no puns intended) status; they always believe they are in control of the situation and that they are winning and will win – they don’t suffer from introspection.
after we restore this nation, darkblack for minister of visual info
EPU, my belief is that reality has become secondary to what they can spin. As long as they can contain a situation to the extent that it can be spun favorably, they consider it a win.
But they’re having trouble even meeting that considerably looser standard lately.
I saw Cage aux Folles in New York back in ‘83 or ‘84, but I suspect that was too sanitized to count. Other than that, I haven’t been to a drag show because I don’t like impersonators, male or female, but it’s very interesting to know that the horizons of drag stretch further than that these days. Let me add another name to the gender-benders genre: Eddie Izzard. Perhaps he fits into your “androgynous” category, but he’s quite clear on who and what he is: an executive transvestite. Not gay, although he occasionally jokes about being a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. Very, very funny. Oh, and drop dead sexy as Charlie Chaplin in the Cat’s Meouw.
I saw a show in San Francisco in the early 1980s called Beach Blanket Babylon. Does that count? All I remember were lots of gigantic hats, including one that was the San Francisco skyline. Also, “Diana Ross and the Supremes” presented standing close together doing their moves, and when they separated it was revealed they were in one dress. It was really funny, but maybe yahada been there.
I was with a crew of people from around the country and some were a little nervous but by the end of the show everyone was in funnyblissville.
But my love of drag queens comes from my childhood, when what I knew about a drag queen — or a queen of any kind but the Elizabeth kind — was nonexistant.
When I was little, every week my family watched Milton Berle, and I (53 years old now) remember lying on the floor, head in hands, leaning on my elbows, hoping, hoping, he’d come out in that red dress. I loved the red dress, tight with the flair at the bottom.
There is something sweet and noble about a drag queen, in my experience. I think this comes from a totally benign intention toward the world, but also from a willingness to accept the world as it is and then say (kind of like god in Genesis) it is good.
I’m not a drag queen; I know what I’m talking about only to the extent it describes my female heterosexual experience of drag queens. But there it is, for what it’s worth.
Imagine what life would be like if drag queens ruled the world. Don’t you want to live in that universe? I do.
Eli – It depends on your definition of reality. But I don’t think they believe they’ve given up on reality, but rather have created an alternative one of their own, one very different from the one you, me and most of the rest of nation, let alone the world, live in.
Of course, I believe that our reality is the objective one – AND THE POLLS AGREE WITH ME, but that still doesn’t mean that they don’t believe their alternate version is real.
Imagine what life would be like if drag queens ruled the world. Don’t you want to live in that universe? I do.
I’m pretty sure drag queens would not have invaded Iraq for no reason…
EPU, I think that’s true of some of them, like Bush f’rinstance. But there is no doubt in my mind that Cheney and Rove know *exactly* what is going on, and are trying everything they can to keep the lid on.
Drag Queens would only invade Iraq if there were a Tres Somme shortage and Iraq was hording it :)
Eli – I’ll give you Rove, he’s purely a political marketer, but more than half the time I believe that Cheney truly sees himself as the saviour of Western Civilization – Christian Edition.
The Bushies are attempting to put ugly reality into very fabulous drag, and there is simply no makeup up to the task.
Checked back and realized nobody has mentioned Pricilla, Queen of the Desert. Absolutely wonderful.
Checked back and realized nobody has mentioned Pricilla, Queen of the Desert. Absolutely wonderful.
Can’t hate any movie with a cock in a frock on a rock (this is totally going to get flagged for moderation).
Priscilla – spell check, dummy.
Eli, EPU (and anyone else who isinterested) — Frank Rich has a column up on the NYT site that is absolutely devastating. If you subscribe to TimesSelect, here’s the link: http://select.nytimes.com/2006…..6rich.html
Titled “From Those Wonderful Folks Who Gave You ‘Axis of Evil’” it sums up the entire failed Bushco foreign policy as follows: “[I]n truth this presidency never had a vision for the world. It instead had an ide fixe about one country, Iraq, and in pursuit of that obsession recklessly harnessed American power to gut-driven improvisation and P.R. strategies, not doctrine. This has not changed, even now.
Only if we remember that the core values of this White House are marketing and political expediency, not principle and substance, can we fully grasp its past errors and, more important, decipher the endgame to come. The Bush era has not been defined by big government or small government but by virtual government.”
Virtual government, but real people dying. And, of course, the people who read Frank Rich already know this, and the people who don’t know this don’t read Frank Rich.
Ta, S-babe…But when/if this shit’s over, who needs yesterday’s papers?
Time for Joe to get his swing on, too
;>)
Pachacutec: Thanks for a fabulous post. I haven’t been to a drag show in years, but I’ve always loved them. I did go to a taping of the Rupaul show and she was beyond terrific. The audience was very straight–lots of moms with their teenaged daughters–and they loved her. A truly talented performer. And she looked amazing. Got to hear k.d. lang perform. Amazing.
I haven’t been to a drag show, but I lived next door to some great neighbors in the mid-70s, in Albuquerque. Rodney and his room-mate would show me their going out attire and it was a hoot. A cashier at the hospital cafeteria showed me some photos of his drag persona, and I gotta say, Larry made a very sexy, chunky Latina.
I doubt this town even has a place where drag shows go on.
Darkblack – Can I email you MY lil joe in a different kind of “drag” picture to host and post a link to if you like it?
After a couple of years in San Francisco (early eighties) this pup had to try drag. Fortunately I had a lot of hair and five wonderful female roommates to work me and my friend ( soon to be Aunt Hilda my chaperone) over. Best of all I had a full length white sequin Bob Mackey gown. A couple of hours into preparations it became apparent to others I was Rita Hayworth. We hit Castro and I swear I parted the sea right down the middle of Market to Noe and Castro to 18th. It was great fun for a night. The next day I had several pinched bruises and all of my sequins honey. I always thought every man should try drag if fortunate, comfortable, brave enough while in SF.
Really bad drag though, I can’t take it for very long
This is a great topic for a Sat. night. I love drag shows and saw my first one in SF at the old Finoccios (sp) in the ‘60. I was very tall in those days and with heels over 6′. I had on one of those boxy suits so popular in those days and still laugh at the sideways looks I got. It’s the only time I’ve been taken for a man!
Then I lived in Honlulu for years and they had a club called the Glades. Of all the drag queens I have ever seen the most beautiful and elegant queens are in Hawaii. They really are queens.
I can’t really say I’m interested in the sociology of cross dressing. Whenever I’ve been around it is seems to me to just be fun. Even with all the drama and you can’t be around drag queens for very long without drama, I’ve felt at home. I can’t say why, but there it is.
It’s always fun to bring up old memories, thanks Pach.
EPU @ 72…I’d probably dig it anyway, but I just use the free versions of Flickr and Photobucket, so I’m not the host.
I just remembered this commercial…
Ya gotta love cable news. The Middle East is coming apart at the seams, and CNN and MSNBC are re-running documentaries. I am reduced to watching Faux. You will be interested to know that Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and all of this is Iran’s fault and the UN is useless and if Faux were in charge, we would take Iran out. And maybe the UN. And Syria too, although that’s mostly an afterthought.
Linda R, I remember Beach Blanket Babylon, loved it.
Correction of # 73 not sequins, beads that dress was heavy. Sorry Mr. Mackey.
You will be interested to know that Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and all of this is Iran’s fault and the UN is useless and if Faux were in charge, we would take Iran out. And maybe the UN. And Syria too, although that’s mostly an afterthought.
I propose converting the UN into the world’s biggest nuke and then dropping it on Iran.
Eli 80 — If Bolton promised to ride it down, Dr. Strangelove style, it would almost be worth it. I’ve switched to one of the documentary reruns, though. More than ten minutes of Faux is too hard on my tooth enamel.
I’ve switched to one of the documentary reruns, though. More than ten minutes of Faux is too hard on my tooth enamel.
I don’t even have my TV on. Too busy processing vintage car pictures.
If you have one of a Morgan, Eli, give it a kiss from me. I’ve always wanted one.
BarbaraB at 58
I am glad you brought up Eddie Izzard – when he is all dolled up, I can never decide between whether I want to be him or do him, kind of like Tim Curry as Dr. Frankenfurter and Joel Grey or Alan Cumming as the Emcee in Cabaret.
Lady Bunny will be at Trannyshack in the ‘hood a month from today.
http://www.heklina.com/
Barbara B – Faux oh my. I have never tuned into Fox. Does it hurt more than your sensibilities?
Maybe they should call it corset news.
Bad drag reminds me of trying to watch Geraldo in any form.
If you have one of a Morgan, Eli, give it a kiss from me. I’ve always wanted one.
I don’t think so, but I’m not entirely sure.
I was really hoping they would have some Duesenbergs, but no. I love Duesenbergs.
Bad drag reminds me of trying to watch Geraldo in any form.
Ohjeez. Now you’ve got me trying to picture Geraldo in drag. This… is unforgivable.
Kurt #30 –
My girlfriend loves that flick and that, plus the picture atop the post, was my influence for the title of my war profiteer post today.
You’re welcome Eli. *g*
Assuming I’ve done this right, which of course I more than assume…..I give you my lil joe in drag opus. And if you never seen the real movie, The Mad Aventures of Rabbi Jacob, its great, and even kid friendly. Rent it.
http://static.flickr.com/49/19…..0458a4.jpg
Don’t expect Fox News to give you truthful information abut the new (old) hostilities in the Middle East. Caveat emptor.
And goodnight!
See you tomorrow for our book salon on Soros book: I’ll be kicking off the discussion at 5:00 PM EST.
Sleep well Pach
Gonna be out motoring about in a ’stang convertible in Marin and Stinson tomorrow, kidz, so gotta go to sleep, after a whole day on the ‘lake. Sleep well, firepoodles….
sp/sherocket — I am one of the few people in this hemisphere who has never seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show, so I cannot speak for Tim Curry’s toothsomeness. Joel Grey and Alan Cumming were both wonderful as the Emcee, in quite different ways, but they also managed to convey the impression that their character had every venereal disease known to humankind. Not sexy, IMHO. On the other hand, Izzard’s Chaplin made my aged heart go pittypat. Zowie.
My boyfriend challenged me on the hotness of Frankenfurter the Emcee – I think I may have a dark side that is not getting enough expression in real life – and Frankenfurter could fall in that same category. But we are agreed as to Eddie Izzard as good clean fun, and quite appetizing.
EPU, you are a marvel (but what else should we expect from a universe?) ESArk, believe me, watching Faux was an act of desperation, but it was too much for my sensibilities, my molars, and my stomach lining. Yuck. Pach and Teddy, sweet dreams. Bedtime for me too, I think. G’night, y’all.
This is really OT but someone just sent it to me and it took my breath away.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..s_for_sale
EPU you did it right (of course you did) and that was funny
Nobody’s mentioned “Female Trouble yet??? it’s only the greatest drag queen movie of all time.
Who can forget the late, great Divine as the teenage Dawn Davenport, complete with chewing gum, hanging out with the bad crowd in the girls’ room? Or Dawn’s Christmas Day tantrum after her parents neglected to give her cha cha heels? Or the sex scene where Divine got to play both the girl and the sleazy guy?
Kewalo
That is just so wrong in so many ways. Judas Priest! What are they going to sell next?
Some of those road deals seem like they could have an odor of corruption surrounding them. No corporation, domestic or foreign, is going to give a state or municipality the better end of a deal – the lawyer wattage (in staffing and resources at least) is always going to be on the side of the corporations.
I’m an Angeleno, and lived here in the 70’s, as well as being a dancer by trade. I even remember when we ladies were not allowed to wear open toed shoes at Studio One here in West Hollywood! Always after a night out, we’d hit the local clubs where there was usually a drag routine on after hours.
Gas taxes should be dramatically reduced on or near toll roads.
I really enjoyed this post. It brought back so many happy memories.
Not only have I seen numerous drag shows, I was drafted into playing a part in one, many, many years ago (and I’m a straight, white woman).
One of the best friends I have ever had was Charles, who I met in college and eventually learned that he was gay. (That’s another long, humorous story.) Anyway, I was still in college, Charles had graduated and moved to another town, when I went to visit him one weekend. I was told that I was in for a big surprise, which turned out to be that his partner at the time, Mike, was going to perform in a drag show.
I totally forget the name of the song, but it had something to do with a woman losing her man to another woman. Mike wanted Charles and me to dress up as a bride and groom, who were kneeling at the altar while he performed his song, about being a wronged woman. It was a hoot! I still have a photograph from that evening in a frame on the shelf in my office.
That was in Huntsville, AL. Later, Charles took me to more professional drag shows in Atlanta and Chicago. He also took me to see Rocky Horrow Picture Show in Chicago. That was so much fun too! Do they still do those shows with the members of the audience acting their favorite part along with the movie?
I’ve had a rough week, so thank you for bringing to mind some very happy memories. Charles died of AIDS in 1987, and I still think of him often and smile. And, oh how I miss him!
Mabuhay Gardens and Pink Flamingos… It’s “San Francisco in the Seventies” night at FDL. Thanks for the memories…
By the way, let’s not forget those amazing Drag Kings of the world. Girl power indeed…
Suzanne, (100) I don’t mean to hijack the thread but this just took my breath away. What’s next our water?
Anyone catch Jane at Huffpo?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..25116.html
HungryCoyote (103) I was delighted to see the subject tonight too. It brought back many happy memories and days and nights of so much fun and so many laughs.
Kelwalo: Pombo wants to sell our national forest parkland. Our roads are being sold.
Subway: Thanks, I hadn’t see that.
I can only speak for one straight female, but I have been to a couple of drag shows. In San Francisco. They were good. I found them funny, and since all the gays there were laughing, too, I guess I wasn’t out of line. LOL
Shell, Teddy –
I should be home in the Bay Area this week (Monday-Wednesday).
http://apoeticjustice.blogspot…..ening.html
…God… Are You Listening?
I’ve been blessed by the ‘lady’ Bunny, when she passed by and said hello to me, during Florent’s Bastille Day celebration. Out here in flyover space, we are blessed to have Nuclia Waste about on her scooter.
I’m always shocked how much knowledge and imitation of drag straight males do — it’s like a test for allergies, respond in the wrong way and you’re unclean, somehow. If the straight world could let a little light in, women trapped in femininity wouldn’t be so bitchy, and would be able to deal with power openly, and men wouldn’t be so nervous, should they display anything close to what they consider feminine.
It’s all about the sexism, folks.
And is it a coincidence that all week I’ve been playing the LITTLE VOICE soundtrack (which ia an American/UK diva primer), and that I’ve been singing The Man That Got Away, in spare, pensive moments? I think not….
And, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh –
Kiki and Herb Will Die For You.
Buy it, play it, learn it, love it, live it.
You’re welcome.
91:
Quick! Joe’s beard’s slipping!…Out for a drink
;>)
Great work, EPU.
One for the morning crew…‘Jazz hands’
;>)
Not a live show. But I lived in SF just at the time period where the gay and lesbian commuity was growing tired of all the straights taking over the Castro on Halloween (at the time, I was the only out straight girl on a Club rugby team, so I rolled around in the mud a lot with the lesbian community). And I always thought the drag, particularly in folks’ houses on Castro, made it easier for the normally boring straight people to escape their sexuality barriers. But it also made people gawk, which I presume was part of the bummer for the gay community.
Hmmmmmm… let me see:
1. Finocchio’s (SF)
2. The Cockettes (Palace Theater & NYC)
2a. The Angels of Light (everywhere)
3. Various clubs in the Tenderloin (SF)
4. Sylvester (everywhere)
5. Divine (everywhere)
6. 181 Club (SF)
7. On tour w/ Iggy & David Bowie (bwahahaha, teheehee, everywhere)
8. Many a fashion show runway (Milan & NYC)
9. The New York Dolls (NYC & LA)
There you go. Drag can be outrageous. In your
face. Sometimes so in your face you’re not
even aware of it (see the list above).
Thank you, Pachacutec.
I can’t believe someone discovered Lady Bunny! My hairdresser still talks about meeting her/him, and his website has been in my ‘favorites’ for years – hysterical! (and left-leaning)
http://ladybunny.net/
Back a day and a half early from a trip on Alaska’s Denali Highway. We got rained out so bad even the dog wanted to come home!
There’s nothing he likes more than being baited into trying to find ground squirrels, who laugh harder and harder as he fails to close in as they move from warren to warren. The ground squirrels might have drooped their ears as we pulled up stakes and shook the water off of our tent as we left Tangle Lakes.
The ground squirrels there live in warrens which probably course through prehistoric collections of early rock pottery and flint shards. Tangle Lakes is part of the only archeological district in Alaska I’ve ever camped in or hiked through. As glaciers receded in the area 10,000 years ago, groups of people working their way from Asia to Tierra del Fuego stopped on by. The obvious fact that observation points for the migrants look more toward where human intruders might emerge rather than toward the caribou routes, shows how popular and possibly dangerous the place was. 10,000 years ago.
As my dog chased the ground squirrels, I thought of what is going on in Southern Lebanon, Northern Israel, and the northwestern abutment of the annexed Golan Heights area. I morphed my dog Strider into the Israeli Defense Forces, the ground squirrels into Hizbollah. Voila!
The way the Israelis and Americans are fighting this war has nothing on the interaction of the squirrels and the dog. The people moving through Tangle Lakes didn’t stay – the place became far less attractive about 6,000 years ago when global warming made the promentories on the lake fingers less valuable strategically.
We live in this crazy world where people rule and act who think the world didn’t exist when the Tangle Lake nomads made their decisions to go there less often. In this crazy world, people who got into the more valuable land of the eastern Mediterranean somehow created a series of ideas which have given us in turn, Judaism 4,000 years ago, Hellenistic humanism 2,500 years ago, Christianity 2,000 years ago and Islam 1,400 years ago.
In this world, all the good these four sets of evolutionary ethical and spiritual values have given us has been commandeered on the global level by profiteers and politicians who are skilled in drawing admonitory advice and rules from these belief sets to justify all kinds of hatred.
People only knowing how to make primitive tools – 10,000 years ago.
Dog chasing ground squirrel – 10,000 years ago
Judaism – 4,000 years ago.
Greek humanism – 2,500 years ago.
Christianity – 2,000 years ago.
Islam – 1,400 years ago.
current co-opting of religious ethics in favor of religious invective – now.
dog chasing ground squirrel – now.
people only knowing how to make primitive tools – now, and……?
What a rant, eh?
http://ladybunny.net/blog/ – for the good jokes.
Why has nobody mentioned Dame Edna Everage here? Never slips out of character, makes up her own jokes etc etc. I think she wins on londevity alone.In SAfrica, we have Mrs Evita Bezuidenhout who is like a national icon. Politicians bow to her whim, she writes Letters to the Editor and took her AIDS awareness programmes to schools.She gets away with saying the most outrageous things – another advantage to being not quite whom you appear.
Juan Cole yesterday:
“Americans have to understand that when Israel goes wild and bombs a civilian airport and civilian neighborhoods in Beirut, a lot of the world’s Catholics (Lebanon is partially a Catholic country) and its 1.4 billion Muslims blame the United States for it. Israel is given billions every year by the United States, including sophisticated weaponry that is now being trained on the slums of south Beirut. It should also be remembered that Bin Laden said, at least, that he started thinking about hitting New York when he saw that 1982 Israeli destruction of the skyscrapers or “towers” of Lebanon. How many future Bin Ladens are watching with horror and rage and feelings of revenge as Israel drops bombs on civilian tenement buildings? When will this blow back on Americans? (I mean blow back in other ways than an already painful further spike in petroleum prices).”
Prof. Cole talks about “an alredy painful spike in gasoline prices.” In Alaska, the price is right now about as low as anywhere in the US. $2.74 a gallon for regular locally, and cheaper in Anchorage.
We have a special session of the state legislature, convened by the lowest rated governor not currently under idictment, starting next week, to try to tie us in for the next 40 years in a resource removal contract with those oil companies. The governor wants to hold all the details until after the vote. Dick Cheney has telephoned legislators with a personal appeal to help the oil companies hold their head above water and survive in the current hostile seas and perils our energy heroes are having to endure.
Why are our gas prices relatively low? Duh…..
Great post!
Amen!
I’ve seen some shows, but the best drag I’ve ever seen wasn’t in a club – it was the Sunday after Halloween in SF when the organist showed up in really fabulous drag.
You know you’ve found a church with a “warm, inviting, non-judgmental spirit” when that happens! (Great music, too!)
I won scholarship money for college from a drag queen organization that had the mayor of Denver and some other politicos in attendance. It went very long, but it was quite fun. Unfortunately I could not participate in the after hours party since I had class the next morning.
On the Lebanon situation: Israel has just completed a new series of air strikes against a location they believe the Hezbollah leader was at. The Hezbolla TV station has started airing quotes from the Koran as is the custom when a leader is dead, and unlike the last attempt by Israel, Hassan Nasrallah didn’t go live on TV within minutes of the attack to reassure the viewers that he’d survived. There’s no clear indication of what this means, but it looks .. umm, bad.
At the same time, there’s now news that the Hezbollah has received over 10,000 missiles from Iran, approximately 300 Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers are acting as “military advisors” to the Hezbollah, and the Israelia army now thinks that the arsenal the Hezbollah got from Iran includes missiles that can reach Tel Aviv.
All of this makes me really, really nervous.
Good morning, all.
Maybe because this started out on Saturday night and now it’s Sunday morning, I find myself more taken with the wonders of ET’s unexpected essay than with the wonders of drag right now.
What a free-wandering intelligence won’t run up on, recollecting in tranquillity! I’m so glad you had those moments with Strider and the ground squirrels, ET, and that you brought us what you found. We’ll probably never stand where you stood this weekend, so thank you for taking us to that very long, very sad view.
My own receptivity to it was prepped on the way here as I checked, among others, London’s Sunday Times. There Christina Lamb and Tahir Luddin have a report from Heyderabad, Paras storm town to lift siege by Taliban, with a link to Lamb’s excellent blog: in short, the handwriting in British blood is on the Afghan wall. Again.
Ah, ET, the immemorialness of fools and their violence.
Well, hello again, sue-z-boo! Glad to see you back here.
Morning All
Peace be with you.
And with you, Old Sow.
AdLib, was that report on Nasrallah on TV somewhere, or the net?
Mornin’.
Ah, Lotus. About your friend that was changing strangely, are you saying her own sister didn’t know where she was?
my first genuine smile in a while….. thanks Pachacutec!!! I need this baddddddddd real bad!!~~~~~ HAHHAHAHAHAhahahahahahah
Yes, egregious, that’s the case. Their relationship isn’t close, and S has studiously avoided having a home phone at her rural home for years (how she does it, I don’t know, but it’s a royal pain for us friends). Email was the only way we kept in touch, except for occasional phone calls when she was headed this way.
The Nasrallah report was just on the radio here in Norway – I’m waiting for an update in 15 minutes with the top of the hour news report.
Okay, thanks, AdLib — I’m listening to the Beeb, but no such report there yet.
CNN: Italy, acting as conduit, tells Hezbollah/Lebanon that Israel will stop the bombarsment if 1) the IDF soldiers are released and 2) Hezbollah withdraws a safe distance from the border.
(yeh, right)
Yeah, they reported it as “unconfirmed”, and it could be that the israelie air force has simply taken out the rest of the phone networks, so Nasrallah may have trouble getting the word out. Still, if the IAF has killed him, I think they’ve also killed any chance for not escalating the situation. Wingnuttia apocalyptic fantasies look closer if that’s the case.
Jeez.
Beeb reporting on Haifa rail-yard rocketing, which the Israelis say “changes everything.”
Ahmedinejad says Israel has “same tactics as Hitler.” — BBC
Also reporting on Italian relay of Israel’s conditions for stopping bombardment.
Well, they’re clearly not using Katusha missiles anymore. And the warship that got hit? Analysis of video from the attack shows that the Hezbollah probably used an iranian radar-guided missile. Clearly, the 10,000 missiles from Iran is making a difference.
The israeli major-general warning the civilians to evacuate to the north of Lebanon as they’re about to bomb the entire southern Lebanon roughly two-three hours ago is also not making me less twitchy.
Israeli major-general warned residents of s. Lebanon, 2-3 hours ago, to leave the area b/c IDF would be operating there “in 2-3 hours.” Local media reporting Israelis using phosphorus bombs in border area, but BBC can’t confirm that.
New report from Wilson/Shadid, dateline Haifa:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..75_pf.html
Beeb world report? Norwegian 24-hours news channel is carrying that now…
Yes, Beeb WR.
Steve Clemons at the Washington Note has an interesting take on Israel’s actions in Lebanon and Gaza: Some Questions Regarding Israel’s Objectives: Is Israel Trying to Curb America’s Deal-Making in Middle East?
Thank goodness Israel just elected a more moderate government, that wouldn’t do anything stupid. How’s that been working out?
Pach said: What do you think of my first imaginary act as a benevolent despot to have every adult American attend a drag show?
What a wonderful post! It’s kinda like that old saw: ‘There’d be no war if everyone were naked.’
BTW, my 1st drag was as a contestant if an amateur drag (no) talent show. FUN!! (And I looked hot, too!) Everyone should try it!
Still no plan to evacuate 25,000 Americans.
The French are sending people to Cyprus and picking them up with Air France. Americans are “working” on a Cyprus plan, but then intend to leave people stranded, abandoning them to wait in line for commercial aircraft. I’m sure everybody can fit on regular flights…
One family was told to go to a nearby town, but before they left, that town was shelled.
Heckuva a plan to protect American citizens!
Yepper, that’s Rummy’s forte, planning, doncha know.
Still listening to the Beeb – Israel has already blown up between half a billion and 1.5 billion dollars worth of Lebanese infrastructure, including roads, ports, power plants – basically almost everything that’s been built since the end of the bloody civil war and the end of the israeli occupation. The Beeb analysts are comparing it to the invasion that ended with the Sabra and shatilla massacres…
New Orleans, Cancun, Lebanon. You know they are getting the important people out. Everybody else
is just screwedcan wait for transport to Cyprus, eventually, then wait in line for a commericial flight with 20,000 other people.This should work great.
Lest they forget : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice
How are the French getting to Cyprus, egregious? Source?
Our state department has the embassy organizing evacuation for every single Norwegian citizen – but there’s only about 300 of them, so that’s an easier job. The french are sending two war ships to help with the evacuation of their people – if you’re lucky, your people might be able to hitch a ride with them.
Not that the people sitting in the buses right now waiting for evacuation are having much luck leaving – what with the IAF bombing the road to Damascus that they were planning to use.
Advice librarian at 144 said Analysis of video from the attack shows that the Hezbollah probably used an iranian radar-guided missile.
What is the source of that information? How do you know it’s not warmongering propaganda to grease the way to a US invasion of Iran, the same way the Iraq invasion was pimped?
op99, here’s a passage from the Wilson/Shadid story:
Shaul Mafaz, Israel’s minister of transportation, said the rocket [that hit Haifa] was not the 120 millimeter Katusha rockets commonly used by Hezbollah. He said it was a 220 millimeter rocket that Hezbollah brought into Lebanon through Syria more than a year ago.
“Syria itself is adding ammunition as we’ve seen today,” he said.
Israel put the area from Tel Aviv north to the border on alert for rocket attacks. Traffic from the northern areas of the country was heavy today as residents appeared to be leaving the area in large numbers, seeking safety in the southern region of Israel.
Hope I closed that.
new thread !
Good point. I haven’t done the video analysis myself and the AP report is only attributed to Israeli intelligence and “sources” – but it strikes me as more believable than the initial guesses at it being an unmanned drone packed with explosives. For one thing, drones don’t generally move fast enough to be useful for assaults.
Though given the complications of international arms dealing, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if it turned out to be russian ship-killers or even the american laser-guided one that were used.
lotus, thanks, I see that every characterization of where Lebanon’s ordnance comes from is attributed to “Israeli military officials” or in one case “Shaul Mafaz, Israel’s minister of transportation.” All I’m saying is that the Israeli or US governments are not trustworthy sources of information when they have an agenda of invading Iran or Syria. It isn’t necessarily false, but we can’t accept it as gospel.
I know, op99 — devilish stuff that we have only that source for it. OTOH, it could well be true that Israel’s enemies haven’t been letting the grass grow under their feet these last three years, just because Dubya’s been gazing elsewhere . . .
lotus, absolutely. Also, how can we not choke on the hypocrisy – it’s perfectly fine for us to arm Israel to the teeth, but nobody’s allowed to arm their targets. Sheesh.
I am myself transsexual. I don’t come to Firedoglake much any more or a few other liberal blogs either. Mainly because of the hate directed to Ann Coulter and the suggestion that she is transsexual. Lines like “her crying game wrists” or talk about her adams apple have the effect of pushing me away.
Why? Because it just reasserts my lower status in society and shows that any acceptance is really a very thin veneer and underneath are the same prejudices others have. It tells me I’d better watch out, if I get too uppity even the left will slap me back down.
I don’t know if Ann is trans or not, sometimes I think I can see it in her face but I can’t be sure. I personally don’t think it’s important but a lot of folk on the left sure seem to think it is. Maybe someday it won’t be but that sure as hell ain’t today.
OK, enough bitchin’, (I’m done, thank you for hearing me out) my favorite “hag drag” performance is in Prisilla, fabulous! And a hundred times better than “to wong fu”.
Fascinating topic, and quite multi-faceted, as Pach says.
One name no one has mentioned so far is Charles Ludlam. His “Ridiculous Theatrical Company” utilized drag at its most spectacular in his legendary “Camille — a Tearjerker.” Ludlam’s “Camille” is without question one of the greates pieces of theater I’ve ever seen (right up there with Brook’s “Marat/Sade,” Chereau’s production of “The Screens” and Marlene Dietrich in concert.) With no padding and his cheat hair exposed Ludlam makes no illusion that he’s a woamn. But then by going through Dumas’ play and more to the point Garbo’s performance of it on film he underscores just how artificial “being a woman” is culturally — even if you are an actual woman like Garbo.
Or Dietrich. or Mae West. Or Judy Garland.
In fact I would say that at her comedic best in sketches like “Mildred Fierce,” “Torchy Song” and “Rich Lady/Broek Lady,” Carol Burnett is one of our greatest drag queens.
Now run right out and BUY the DVD of “The Cockettes.” You won’t be sorry.
noen, if you haven’t been around here much in the last few weeks, you won’t know that, before long in that thread that got so vicious, TeddySanFran’s protest won out, people realized what they saying and hushed that talk. There’s been much less of it here ever since, and when it shows up, it gets jumped-on promptly.
I’m very sorry that it got started at all, and that it hurt you. Coulter brings out the worst in practically everybody, it seems.
Thank you for speaking up today.
“people realized what they WERE saying”
Priscilla is indeed wonderful, Noen. None of the actors in it had ever done drag before, but they took to it like ducks to water. I daresay the film probably inspired all manner of people — regardless of gender or orientation — to lip-synch to ABBA in drag.
Thank you Lotus, no I didn’t know. Sorry for going off like that then.
neon – Please don’t go. Stick around and call out anytime you find yourself uncomfortable. I think you will find many fine people who will support you and may very well speak out before you. Someone said here recently, we are the leaders we are looking for. Obviously it’s not me but I would sing and watch Priscilla between political actions anytime.) Hope you will reconsider and join us.
noen
I’m not trans, but I sure agree with you. Coulter is bad enough as she is and I never thought calling her a trans did anyone any good, or was even that funny. It was prejudiced. Surely calling a piece of slime like Coulter to be part of some group indelibly slimes that group and transgender people certainly don’t deserve that.
Also — what lotus and Eureka Springs said.
Best Drag Show ever: BLOOLIPS “Lust in Space”
If y’all wanna see some fierce drag queens & kings, come spend a few days here in Provincetown. In-season, the town itself is a drag show with every possible kind of drag happening in the clubs and in the streets, both as paid performance and as a lifestyle choice. To give you an idea, the hostess in the restaurant where I work does every day drag.
Once upon a time, Ptown was the summer showcase for Waylon Flowers & Madam and the summer home of Divine (who babysat a good friend of mine in the 70’s) and John Waters (who still summers here).
Oh, and to D.E. @ #109, the current heir to Charles Ludlam is Ryan Landry. Ryan studied with Ludlam as a member of the Ridiculous Theater Company – now he has his own production company called the Gold Dust Orphans. During the summer in Ptown they do a show nightly, and the Orphans include men and women, queers & straights. In fact, when Margaret Cho was in town a couple of summers ago, she guested as a member of the Orphans for a while. When summer is over, they leave the Island of Lost Toys and tour out in the hinterlands (Boston, New York, San Fran., etc.) If you ever get a chance to see a Landry production, run, don’t walk.
Pachacutec
Kudos! You go Miss Lady Bunny girl…
I am a native San Franciscan and they don’t let you vote in SF UNLESS you’ve been to a good drag show.
I miss Finocchio’s…BBB (Beach Blanket Babylon)is good but not the same…