<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: About That Bivens Claim&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:54:45 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: CherKell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-192951</link>
		<dc:creator>CherKell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-192951</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;screw you bluebook!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ha!  I would HAVE to be reading that just as I was cracking into mine, trying to figure out how a legislative history was to be cited…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the analysis, Atta.  You just saved my department some valuable Westlaw dollars today. ;)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>screw you bluebook!</i></p>
<p>Ha!  I would HAVE to be reading that just as I was cracking into mine, trying to figure out how a legislative history was to be cited…</p>
<p>Thanks for the analysis, Atta.  You just saved my department some valuable Westlaw dollars today. ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: YY</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-192130</link>
		<dc:creator>YY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-192130</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Re: accepting liability, the plaintiffs could still take sworn depositions for the damages phase. Where the tough questions could be asked, and the perjury traps laid.&lt;br /&gt;
I don’t think they want that.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s not as though they are suing for damages to the country (although that is the underlying message), so it is just loss of job/future income. While there can be some to and fro about national security aspects of calculating the damage, how and why of the leak becomes pretty much immaterial.  I just have a dread that it isn’t going to be as entertaining or informative as one would hope.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Re: accepting liability, the plaintiffs could still take sworn depositions for the damages phase. Where the tough questions could be asked, and the perjury traps laid.<br />
I don’t think they want that.</i></p>
<p>It’s not as though they are suing for damages to the country (although that is the underlying message), so it is just loss of job/future income. While there can be some to and fro about national security aspects of calculating the damage, how and why of the leak becomes pretty much immaterial.  I just have a dread that it isn’t going to be as entertaining or informative as one would hope.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DAS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191878</link>
		<dc:creator>DAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191878</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Executive can organize itself however it sees fit, but is there not Legislative oversight (don’t laugh) for whatever shape that organization takes?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This was the ostensible legal issue in the A. Johnson impeachment, wasn’t it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The Executive can organize itself however it sees fit, but is there not Legislative oversight (don’t laugh) for whatever shape that organization takes?</i></p>
<p>This was the ostensible legal issue in the A. Johnson impeachment, wasn’t it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DAS</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191876</link>
		<dc:creator>DAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191876</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Absolute Immunity: This means you cannot sue a governmental official for doing what they were either elected or appointed to do (Executive, Parliamentary and Judicial Immunity).&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is there a notion of malpractice, though?  In any professional role (e.g. doctor, lawyer), if you do your job malaciously or extraordinarily incompetently, you can be sued exactly for doing your job — so badly and destructively.  If the Pres. or VP purposefully do an end-run around the constitution and this results in real damages to real people, how come they cannot sue for malpractice?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, I’m the one who thinks that legislators who vote for “partial birth abortion” bans and similar malicious mis-sense, should be held accountable for practicing medicine without a license …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Absolute Immunity: This means you cannot sue a governmental official for doing what they were either elected or appointed to do (Executive, Parliamentary and Judicial Immunity).</i></p>
<p>Is there a notion of malpractice, though?  In any professional role (e.g. doctor, lawyer), if you do your job malaciously or extraordinarily incompetently, you can be sued exactly for doing your job — so badly and destructively.  If the Pres. or VP purposefully do an end-run around the constitution and this results in real damages to real people, how come they cannot sue for malpractice?</p>
<p>Of course, I’m the one who thinks that legislators who vote for “partial birth abortion” bans and similar malicious mis-sense, should be held accountable for practicing medicine without a license …</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathanael Nerode</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191728</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael Nerode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191728</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Raises an idea for a Constitutional Amendment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No government official shall be immune from prosecution or civil liability except to the extent that such official acted strictly within the proper course of his or her official duties.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raises an idea for a Constitutional Amendment.</p>
<p>No government official shall be immune from prosecution or civil liability except to the extent that such official acted strictly within the proper course of his or her official duties.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: drinkof</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191625</link>
		<dc:creator>drinkof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191625</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re: accepting liability, the plaintiffs could still take sworn depositions for the damages phase.  Where the tough questions could  be asked, and the perjury traps laid.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t think they want that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: accepting liability, the plaintiffs could still take sworn depositions for the damages phase.  Where the tough questions could  be asked, and the perjury traps laid.  </p>
<p>I don’t think they want that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: YY</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191416</link>
		<dc:creator>YY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191416</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Possibly at the end of a thread, but not finding a better place, a question.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you were the three respondents, wouldn’t you just take the simplest option of accepting civil liability and going streight to damages?  What’s the point of fighting it when the outline of the story is out and what you really want to avoid are the embelishments of details, thus wouldn’t avoiding discovery be the most important thing?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Given the nature of the damages being probably a simple time times earnings lost at the CIA, and this not at all being the real objective of the suit, accepting liability sounds like the best way to go for the WH to keep the story off the news. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Would this be why the John Does are there, to preserve ability to go forward with discovery in case Cheney/Rove/Scooter fold?  Can’t see Plame/Wilson going after footsoldiers for any other reason.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Can someone tell me this is a wrong guess as it would be bummer if it turned out this way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possibly at the end of a thread, but not finding a better place, a question.</p>
<p>If you were the three respondents, wouldn’t you just take the simplest option of accepting civil liability and going streight to damages?  What’s the point of fighting it when the outline of the story is out and what you really want to avoid are the embelishments of details, thus wouldn’t avoiding discovery be the most important thing?  </p>
<p>Given the nature of the damages being probably a simple time times earnings lost at the CIA, and this not at all being the real objective of the suit, accepting liability sounds like the best way to go for the WH to keep the story off the news. </p>
<p>Would this be why the John Does are there, to preserve ability to go forward with discovery in case Cheney/Rove/Scooter fold?  Can’t see Plame/Wilson going after footsoldiers for any other reason.</p>
<p>Can someone tell me this is a wrong guess as it would be bummer if it turned out this way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Buckeye Hamburger</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191295</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckeye Hamburger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191295</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The upshot of all this is that impeachment is the procedure foreseen by the Constitution to cope with the present situation, and it is Congress’ duty to see that course through. Like most of us, I too would “hope” that there is a legal avenue available to the Wilsons that Attaturk does not foresee. But if not, we must go through the channels that our system requires. There is legitimate suspicion that the Vice President and/or President are guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors in the conduct of their offices. That leaves Congress with &lt;em&gt;no other choice&lt;/em&gt; but to exercise its powers of oversight — meaning, specifically, the power of subpoena — to bring the facts to light; and if the facts indicate that the sanctions of impeachment and removal from office are necessary, then Congress must carry out those consequences.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Frankly, both Republicans and Democrats would have to support this course of action. I know, I know, but in this election year, the Republicans can be confronted forthrightly with a challenge that, at its core, is simply a question of right and wrong. Democrats don’t have to commit to a call for impeachment; they can demand simply that Congress fulfill its institutional role of oversight and let due process run its course. Voters cannot fail to recognize the reason in that position. We can demand from Republicans that they play according to the rules of our republic. If Bush &amp; Cheney have done nothing wrong, then they should have nothing to fear from it. We can rightfully take Republicans to task for &lt;em&gt;protecting possible criminal behavior in the highest offices of the land&lt;/em&gt;, only because they belong to the same party as the accused.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With very few exceptions, Democrats as always are too intimidated — too chickenshit — to take a strong stand on a matter of principle. But there is no downside, legally or politically, in running our system the way that the Constitution requires, and there is no shame in demanding nothing less of our leaders.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The upshot of all this is that impeachment is the procedure foreseen by the Constitution to cope with the present situation, and it is Congress’ duty to see that course through. Like most of us, I too would “hope” that there is a legal avenue available to the Wilsons that Attaturk does not foresee. But if not, we must go through the channels that our system requires. There is legitimate suspicion that the Vice President and/or President are guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors in the conduct of their offices. That leaves Congress with <em>no other choice</em> but to exercise its powers of oversight — meaning, specifically, the power of subpoena — to bring the facts to light; and if the facts indicate that the sanctions of impeachment and removal from office are necessary, then Congress must carry out those consequences.</p>
<p>Frankly, both Republicans and Democrats would have to support this course of action. I know, I know, but in this election year, the Republicans can be confronted forthrightly with a challenge that, at its core, is simply a question of right and wrong. Democrats don’t have to commit to a call for impeachment; they can demand simply that Congress fulfill its institutional role of oversight and let due process run its course. Voters cannot fail to recognize the reason in that position. We can demand from Republicans that they play according to the rules of our republic. If Bush &amp; Cheney have done nothing wrong, then they should have nothing to fear from it. We can rightfully take Republicans to task for <em>protecting possible criminal behavior in the highest offices of the land</em>, only because they belong to the same party as the accused.</p>
<p>With very few exceptions, Democrats as always are too intimidated — too chickenshit — to take a strong stand on a matter of principle. But there is no downside, legally or politically, in running our system the way that the Constitution requires, and there is no shame in demanding nothing less of our leaders.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fuzzflash</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191285</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuzzflash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191285</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Attaturk, dig the poncho, groove on your wit, simply go weak at the knees at your expertise. Thanks for spelling it out for 2/3rds smart legal neonates like me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attaturk, dig the poncho, groove on your wit, simply go weak at the knees at your expertise. Thanks for spelling it out for 2/3rds smart legal neonates like me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BoarDLaze</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191143</link>
		<dc:creator>BoarDLaze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/15/about-that-bivens-claim/#comment-191143</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;While I agree that the most likely outcome in re Cheney is a finding of absolute immunity for the vice president, I do not agree that such a finding is mandated by law.  Although the Vice Presidency is an elective office it does not entail any constitutional duties other than the presidency of the senate.  The rationale for absolute immunity in the case of the Presidency is that the President is so burdened by his day to day constitutional duties he could not conduct both those duties and the obligations of a litigant.  (If you don’t have to cite, neither do I.)  Thus, unless a court can up with some other rationale for absolute immunity   the “law,” at least as it stands does not require the finding you expect.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “official act,” defense, also does not seem justified by the circumstances.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At the end of the day though, I expect a conservative” leaning court to find on behalf of the administration in contravention of the letter and meaning of the law.  But that’s what they mean by “strict construction.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that the most likely outcome in re Cheney is a finding of absolute immunity for the vice president, I do not agree that such a finding is mandated by law.  Although the Vice Presidency is an elective office it does not entail any constitutional duties other than the presidency of the senate.  The rationale for absolute immunity in the case of the Presidency is that the President is so burdened by his day to day constitutional duties he could not conduct both those duties and the obligations of a litigant.  (If you don’t have to cite, neither do I.)  Thus, unless a court can up with some other rationale for absolute immunity   the “law,” at least as it stands does not require the finding you expect.</p>
<p>The “official act,” defense, also does not seem justified by the circumstances.</p>
<p>At the end of the day though, I expect a conservative” leaning court to find on behalf of the administration in contravention of the letter and meaning of the law.  But that’s what they mean by “strict construction.”</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
