
Today in the FDL Book Salon, we are so thrilled to be discussing F.U.B.A.R. : America’s Right-Wing Nightmare by Sam Seder and Stephen Sherrill. This is Part II of our discussion of the book — Part I was hosted last week by Marc Maron, and can be found here. (And boy did you mis out if you weren’t there last week. Thank goodness you made it today…whew!)
Let me start by saying how proud I am of Sam and Stephen for using a little device that I like to call “the footnote.” You know, where you find useful information in one source and quote from it — or use the information extensively to prove a point — and actually give credit to the person who originally wrote about this information. (Don’t you bet that Ann Coulter wishes she had done that more in her book(s) and articles? But I digress…)
F.U.B.A.R. is a fantastic read, and I’m not just saying that because I like getting booked on The Majority Report. The book is laugh out loud funny, and I could probably produce several fellow plane passengers to vouch for my raucous laughter while reading it, if need be.
The fact that I could sit there with this book and read about Karen Hughes’ goodwill crusade (oops!) tour around the Islamic world where she talked incessently about motherhood the only issue that women like to talk about clearly and many other issues in common with other women. Ahhhh…the sweet smell of failure success!
By the way, I checked the RaptureReady.com Rapture index today and we are minus a net 2 points to 155. Whew! Guess I can stop sotcking up on canned corned beef and wheat berries now (but no one is making me stop stockpiling duct tape). I’m eternally grateful to Sam and Stephen for introducing me to this handy salavation tool, but one thing doesn’t make sense to me: in a listing of variables that could lead to the rapture, such as Satanism, false Christs (at 2! today!), global turmoil, mark of the beast, etc., why do they also have a listing for “civil rights” as if it is one and the same with plagues and such? (For more, see Ch. 4, Apocalypse Now)
Anyway, it sure is good to know that someone is keeping track of all of this. As you no doubt remember from last week’s very serious discussion of the “Rapture Right,” there are an increasing number of folks driving around this nation of ours with those fish emblems and bumper stickers that read “In the case of the Rapture, this car will be driverless.” (I’ve thought about starting a conversation with one of those drivers at the local WalMart, but she had that bun and koulots look going on, with five kids in tow and, well, I didn’t have the heart to ask her whether she ought to be so cocky about the whole rapture thing and whether God really likes people who think of themselves as a “sure thing.” But I figure she’s got enough on her plate, what with the koulots and all…)
Here are some fun facts about life in America during the Bush Administration that I’ve learned from Sam and Stephen. (Wow, funny AND educational. Who knew?)
– If the Bush Administration’s Social Security reform plan goes through and part of the benefit is privatized made into personal accounts, you still have to pay back to the government part of everything you make on your account (assuming you make anything at all and haven’t lost it in some wacko get-rich-quick fund) — 3 percent interest above the rate of inflation, to be exact.
– Real hourly wags have fallen 2.2 percent since the tax cuts in 2002. Way to go, Shrub! (Oh, wait…)
– The median household income has dropped every single year that Bush has been President. (Heckuva…oh…)
– The poverty rate has risen every single year since 2001.
– As of August, 2005, the savings rate for Americans had dropped -2.5 percent, the lowest rate since the Great Depression.
– The average American now spends nearly 14 percent of their disposable income servicing the pay off on their personal debt.
And that’s just for starters. (See Ch. 6, The Republican Cat Food Promotion Act of 2006, and Ch. 8, Fun Things to Do When You Are Broke.)
One of my favorite chapters deals with The Republican Neurological Disorder Act of 2005 (the “Clear Sky Initiative.”) Yes, we can all look forward to increased neurological damage thanks to the rising levels of mercury on just about everything we touch, eat, wear or breathe. Mercury poisoning can cause numbness, dementia, ADD and Parkinson’s disease, and all sorts of mental abnormalities and behavioral problems.

Why yes, this is a photo of Rep. Jean Schmidt of Ohio. No particular reason, why do you ask?
Sam and Stephen spend quite a bit of quality time talking about Life as a Gay Republican (or “I Hate Myself.”, Ch. 13 and Ch. 14 and Ch. 19). As the folks who attended last week’s chat know, the Spongebob Satanpants and Lenny the Cross-dressing Shark phone call (beginning on p. 102) was one of my favorite moments ever in the history of radio broadcast. (Okay, I exaggerate, but it’s pretty damn funny…) You can listen to the conversation between Sam and Ed Vitagliano, a pal of James Dobson, here at Air America.
The point of this extensive discussion of the Republican Party, homosexuals, latent homosexuality, hidden homosexuality and homophobia is…well, it’s just not nice to bash people in public and be one in private, now is it? I have always had a personal policy of not outing people who haven’t outed themselves, mainly because a number of close friends have had to endure all manner of horrid treatment from family members and former friends after coming out and the consequences of forcing that on someone else just seem so devastating.
But then, you contemplate the nastiness that the Republican electoral “hate the gays” agenda has brought on in the last few years, and you begin to think that the rank hypocrisy of some people who have pushed it forward is particularly galling.

Again with the questions. Yes, this is Rep. David Drier, why do you ask? I just found this lovely photo while I was browsing at the Washington Life webpage and thought I’d share it. That’s all.
But Sam and Stephen’s discussion of some history on Roy Cohn and his paramour/male secretary and some current members of Congress and the Republican Party who have made it a point to publicly skewer homosexuals and make life very much more difficult indeed for them, all the while practicing the very same lifestyle that they have publicly villified behind closed doors does raise an interesting ethical dilemma that is worth discussion. How far is too far — both by the elected or powerful political official whose public and private personas are so mismatched, and by an activist of opposing political stripes who might take things public that, for other people entirely, might have remained forever private? Very interesting questions, and something I hope we discuss much further today.
My favorite chapter of all, though, might have been titled “Cutting Through the Kool-Aid.” Ch. 21 “How to Win Friends and Convert Republicans (Or Just Convert Republicans)” is genius, both in the practical tips and in the high level of snark. (In fact, the level of snark throughout the entire book is quite high. Kudos!)
Sam and Stephen set up helpful dialogue scenarios so that you, too, can go to an Applebees or “the Club” or to visit your “SuperJewish Grandma” or date a “Born Again girl” (or boy or…whatever) and talk about the issues that concern you in a way that pierces the Kool-Aid veil. Useful! And using the Repture Right philosophy to scare your Super Jewish Grandma into reality — priceless!
There is so much more goodness in this one, little book…but discussion is also a very good thing. So here are a few questions to get this party started:
1. The humor and snark in this book is particularly effective as a tool for getting a message across on very difficult and weighty subjects while keeping the interest going at the same time. Why don’t more Democrats wake up and realize this is an effective tactic? (See The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Lewis Black, et. al.)
2. As Sam and Stephen point out in the book, the media is not our friend. Jane and I have begun referring to them as having “battered press syndrome” (and that was certainly evident for Bobo Brooks today, wasn’t it?), and we need to continue to balance pushing back (the stick) against encouraging better press behavior (the carrot). But how best to do that?
3. Hypocrisy is rampant in Washington, D.C. – throw in just one, big “values voter” suck up-a-thon, and I’ll raise you a Fornigate and throw in a Ralph Reed for good measure. I mean, honestly, is there any wonder that people in America are disgusted with politics at all levels. Aside from mocking the people most heavily involved in this idiocy, what other means are there to best clean things up, inside the Beltway and around the country?
4. What is the most effective means of getting the progressive message across to the masses — and how can we promote the hell out of it?
5. When are Sam and Stephen writing another book?
As always, folks, please keep this comments thread on topic for the book club. Other comments may continue in the privious thread. Thanks!



324 Comments





Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
As always, please keep these comments on the topic of FUBAR and the book discussion. Thanks!
Welcome everyone. Can’t wait to get this discussion started on FUBAR. And a big welcome to Sam Seder and Stephen Sherrill today. :)
Today in America
Absolutely Fucked UP
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..ailarticle
Hi all,
thanks for joining us and thanks to Christy and Jane and all at FDL. Stephen is working his way back from little italy where he was watching the world cup.
Sorry I missed last week. I went to the one house I’ve been to in 5 years that didn’t have internet access.
Oh man, Sam — good luck to Stephen on that one. I’d bet it’s a bit…erm…rowdy there at the moment. :)
Glad you could make it, Sam — great job filling in for Al Franken last week!
yeah, i suspect that there’s a slight bit of excitement there.
I’d also like to offer a blanket apology for the typing miscues which follow in my posts.
Sam — I checked the RaptureReady.com index today before the chat — it’s down 2 points to 155. Whew! I was worried something might happen to disrupt the chat today. *g*
Hi Sam and Christy! Two of my favorite liberal media types in one room!
I enjoy your show on Air America very much, Sam and also like it when you sub for others. Haven’t read the book yet, but I do so love your phone call pranks.
Thank you for all your hard work and the good works you (both) do.
Thanks Christy, I really like that time slot– and Al has a well developed audience.
I leave my sneakers untied in anticipation of the rapture.
And I’d like to apologize for anymore of Sam’s forthcoming apologies.
Hi folks, sorry I’m late. Was in Little Italy watching the World Cup. I’ve yellow carded myself for my tardiness.
Hi Sam.
Sorry I missed last week. I went to the one house I’ve been to in 5 years that didn’t have internet access.
You went to Janeane’s house?
Hey Josh! Great to see you, too! Wow — we have a plethora of Air America luminaries. (I’m not worthy. lol)
Sorry I’m late. Little Italy is a bit crazy right now. I’ve yellow carded myself for my tardiness.
and for the double post.
Welcome, Stephen — I’m just glad you made it out of Little Italy in one piece. *g*
I leave my sneakers untied in anticipation of the rapture.
But, but you’re a Je……… oh forget it.
and nice to know the rapture index is down. But i wonder if they’ve recalculated since the N. Korean missile episode.
and all the “terrorist plots” the DHS keeps breaking up.
19
i get to sit on the right hand side of god….
or buen in hellfire!
So, here’s my big question of the day: the snark and humor in FUBAR was exceptional at cutting through the malarky and making even the depressing and unpalatable information readable. Why don’t more Democrats wake up and realize what a useful tool humor and ridicule and laughter can be in getting their message across?
It boggles my mind that they don’t use it more often. (Although, granted, they’d have to find people with decent delivery and timing skills. Note to self: not Joe Biden.)
though, Sam, you know from the book, your seat by the right hand of god is only good for part of the rapture. Your seat after that isn’t so good.
Christy @ 23, that’s a good question. It’s arguable even that had our last two presidential nominees had more of a sense of humor, one or both might have been in the White House now.
I get the feeling the internet tubes are clogged, or something…
I think there’s sometimes a sense on the left that humor isn’t serious, or that it’s somehow disrepectful to the issue at hand. Even Janeane sometimes feels that way on the show.
Jacqrat at 26 — I think it’s post-world-cup beer stupor. But I’d suspect that will make for an amusing chat in about 15 minutes.
19
i get to sit on the right hand side of god….
or buen in hellfire!
Well as long as you can do The Majority Report from hell………..
But seriously, you are my favorite AAR host.
I went to buy FUBAR at Walmart today, but they must have been out of stock *cough*. Plenty of copies of Godless though…..
Yeah, definitely not Joe Biden. Though I think effective use of humor will be one of the reasons why Al Franken would be a formidable candidate, if he decides to run. It’s hard to rebut humor and not look like a jackass.
and all the “terrorist plots” the DHS keeps breaking up.
Are those “terrorist plots” or “terrorist pilots” the DHS keeps breaking up? Are we sure they aren’t disrupting the fall TV schedule, and the producers are too embarassed to admit it?
Anyway — Welcome, to all the Air America Luminaries!!!
Do you, um . . . work for a CIA Airline or something?
kidding, just kidding . . .
I was recently at one of the breakfasts organized by the American Prospect in DC. Most of the guests are Dems…Dean, Sherrod Brown, Pelosi, etc.. But by far the one with the best sense of humor has been the only conservative: Grover Norquist.
Stephen at 27 — I did some stand-up (not a lot, and not very well, mind you) in college, and I have always found a humor to be the best way to twist in an especially difficult knife. Or to drive a good wedge between current beliefs and getting people to think about them in a new light.
Sarcasm can be a difficult one to use well without pissing people off entirely, but flat out humor or some really well done ridicule can be incredibly effective. Maybe its a Southern thing…
christy… I think people on the left do tend to use humor and it tends to be significantly better than what passes for humor on the right. with that said, I also think that political engagement on the left is qualitatively different than that on the right… it neccesarily takes politics and it’s implications more seriously. Part of the whole conservatainment, like rush for instance, is based on denial in general and allows for a more seamless integration of low rent humor.
-ck- at 31, if they were “pilots” they might actually have expertise in something, which it doesn’t appear the miami group, or the latest one, had any of.
Sam at 34 — good point. I’m not talking about a “git r done” level of humor. *G* (Although that would work around where I live in WV, in case anyone is wondering…) I think, in general (if one can generalize about this sort of thing), some more humor can be a much more humanizing and more effective messaging tool.
I think the Lenny the Shark call is a PRIME example of that from the show. (And one of my faves, btw.)
Sam, I thought the way you discussed class and economic issues on Al’s show this week was terrific. Any plans to follow up in a similar vein, either via radio or print?
I agree with Sam — when it’s used, it’s better on the left, but the right uses it more often, but it’s different humor, more rooted in glibness, or a kind of pure sarcastic name calling, which isn’t really funny.
My question is, aside from using humor, how do you make people understand they’re being lied to without making them feel like chumps for buying it hook, line and sinker? Some people I hear calling in, for example, seem to be resistent to the truth about even simple things like the way pensions are skewed by executive compensation because to accept that they don’t get it would mean accepting that there are serious flaws in the world view they have been provided by spin-meisters.
Christy, at 36, one of the things Sam does well with those phone calls, and which we try to do in the book, is simply take their premises at face value, and extend them logically. Often that’s all you need to do to create some easy humor.
ch 36… but git her done style stuff is what nearly all conservative humour is (maybe plus some frat style mocking of the weak or strange) the range of topics for “liberal humour” is more narrow. Rush can mock anything that is slighlty different from the “norm” and it fits a paranoid, fearful conservative ideology.
37– thanks I talk a decent amount about class and economic populist on the majority report. post nov 06 I plan to focus on it even more… hopefully with a dem congress that will be more easily infuenced by the topic
Dover Bitch, at 39, you raise the fundemental problem. I think sometimes liberals overestimate the value of just arguing the facts. Many conservatives, (like Janeane’s Dad Carmine, and most of my family, too), will argue the facts, but when you keep exposing theirs as wrong, will just keep moving the goal posts, and I think that’s because they’re not basing their political preferences on facts at all, even though they like to believe they are.
I agree that humor is a very effective weapon. And truth be told, if these wackjobs weren’t running the country (into the ground) ridicule would be the ONLY appropriate response to their nonsense.
As it stands, a combination of ridicule and “serious” policy push-back is the answer. IMO.
We definately need more of our “leaders” to use more humor/ridicule.
And yes, Sharktales was a classic. The fact the guy had no clue that you were ridiculing him was priceless………..
CHS at 2:20 pm –
One of the things that makes FDL great is the snark woven into the posts. Online humor is tough, but you and crew have the touch.
Question for everyone — is on line and on air humor different? I noticed during the Dean campaign that rhetoric that plays well online can be way over the top in person. Has anyone noticed a difference when it comes to humor?
Well, I’ll throw a question out — which of the possible nominees seems to be able to use it? Hard to say any of them do. Warner maybe, but I haven’t seen enough of him.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 2:23 pm (#36) – I’m not talking about a “git r done” level of humor. *G* (Although that would work around where I live in WV, in case anyone is wondering)
I hear that some of it’s funny no matter where you’re from … ;-)
Humor’s a tough thing, and much of it’s probably best left to the professionals. Delivery and timing are usually important, and I suspect most politicians would rather work on something else. For those who can manage it, it would probably be effective (Bill Clinton and JFK were both good at it), but Hillary, Biden, Wes Clark, and Joe Lieberman should probably avoid it unless the joke’s drop dead funny and they have time to rehearse.
39
I don’t think people feel like they’re idiots for falling fro this stuff. I think even when they realize on one level they’ve been lied to, most people– even ones who change their perspective, rationalize or revise their recollections of their past beliefs so they can move on with out landing naked on the floor of their bathroom in the fetal position.
I want the bumper sticker that says – “In case of Rapture – can I have your car?”
-ck- @44, I completely agree — FDL’s use of humor is fantastic. And it’s even funnier when the right wing blog targets act so wounded and victimized by it.
Re Cujo at 46 – don’t you guys think that the style of humor has to fit the personality of the person using it? Clark & Hillary would be well-served by self-deprecating humor … most pols would be.
Re online vs. live humor, my sense has been that you need to target people less and ideas more when you’re live on radio or TV? Or do you think I’m too much of a wimp that way?
Sam Seder @ 2:28 pm (#41) – True, part of what works in humor depends very much on the audience. Their knowledge, or lack of it, makes irony work or fail.
-ck-, I’ll tell you… Lieberman’s comments about it being a short ride to a hospital willing to provide rape victims birth control is one of the things that bothers me the most about him. But I was surprised by my own reaction to hearing Lamont bring it up in the debate. It almost seemed too harsh-sounding coming out of Lamont’s mouth as opposed to the blog-o-sphere.
Reagan, though I vehemently opposed him, was certainly effective as humor. Not that he was that funny, but the bar is different at that level. It’s less that the President need to be funny than that he be perceived as being able to laugh at himself.
Dover Bith at 52 may be answering my question at 50
Stephen at 49 and -ck- at 44 — awwww, thanks, you guys. We sure try. But I do think a lot of it for us is the visuals. We try to marry just the right photo with the text. (See Jean Schmidt above…ahem.)
Right Wing humor isn’t funny! They can’t get beyond the meaness of their agenda to be actually funny. All they can do is be mean. It’s all they know.
51… true, less so in performed comedy where if you have the audience’s benefit of the doubt you can actually communicate to the audience that the joke is funny even if they don’t get it. it’s a committment thing
Dover Bitch at 52: that’s very interesting, too — the importance of tone, even when simply attacking an outrageous and attackable statement by the other side.
Sam 47, but that’s kind of what I was getting at (even though I spelled resistant wrong). Even if you get them to accept a specific fact, what can you do do get them to understand that those facts should be fatal to their more general premises?
I ask you guys because I feel that you both are highly effective communicators.
RJ Eskow @ 2:33 pm (#50) – I think Clark would probably be able to do self-deprecating, but Hillary would have to work at it. Even there, it’s partly about delivery, I think. The audience has to think they actually believe what they’re saying, at least to a small degree. Let’s face it, it’s part acting, and you have to believe the character they’re playing has some humility for a self-deprecating joke to work.
Right Fools – it is all in the perspective. I think Bill O’LieLy is funny as hell…
Of course, not intentionally, but still.
Sam at 57 — and, at times, a factor of how late in the evening you hit the stage, who you follow, and how many drink minumum comes with the “no cover charge” lure. *g*
57: to elaborate on Sam here — even on the radio, where you can hear more inflection than online, there’s no comedy bit we’ve ever done where there aren’t several people on our blog that think it’s real. Part of this, of course, comes from the fact that the Bush administration has set the bar on what’s obvious parody pretty high.
I have looked in all my dictionaries and I cannot find a reference to koulots anywhere. What the hell is a koulot?
Jacqrat at 61 — I can’t even see the name O’Reilly now without thinking “falafel…loofah.” Mwahahahaha.
Tim Wayne at 64 — you know those pants that look kind of like a split skirt that go just below the knee, often a lovely, thick polyester, and were in style in the 70s at some point? Well, they are back…SIGH.
Hi, Sam:
I podcast and listen to Franken every day, but I have to admit that this past week, when you were hosting, I simply relished every moment of the shows and couldn’t get them downloaded fast enough.
i hope you thanked HoJo for pulling his pre-Indepenence Day stunt just in time for a week of daytime snark from you!
Dover at 59:
imho you can’t really convince most of the people I think you are talking about with facts… I think emotion, and comedy that denigrates the emotional centers of their belief system is more effective. basically, I believe demogougary is the only way to fight demogougary (sorry for sp)
Dover Bitch, at 59: that’s the sticking point. With Carmine (Janeane’s father), for example, we’ve done that many times, as has Al with his friend Mark Luther, the ditto head. When it’s pointed out, all they do is shift around. They don’t want to be disabused of the team they root for, and if they choose not to be, it’s almost impossible.
Another question… is it hard to be funny on the radio when you can’t guage your audience’s reaction instantly or widely?
kulottes?
Christy at 65 – But when he tries to be funny……. complete failure.
>which of the possible nominees seems to be able to use it?
Steve@45: Feingold, clearly. Look at his first senatorial campaign in ‘92 – as an underdog both in the primary and the election, he employed humor masterfully. As a Wisconsinite, I recall a memorable commercial in which Elvis endorsed him.
Sam & Stephen,
It seems to me that political humor serves two functions: either 1)to persuade people who differ with you, or 2) to provide catharsis and clarity for those who agree with you (especially when they’re under siege, as now).
I’m partway thru FUBAR and would put it more in Category 2. Would you agree? And, if you plan to write another book, would you continue in the same vein?
(sorry for the lengthy question)
I finally realized who Jean Schmidt reminds me of. Kitty Farmer in Donnie Darko (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0335275/). Look at that picture and imagine her saying: “Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!”
Sam – first let me confess to not having had a chance to read your book, but I do listen to you on AAR as often as I can, and was thrilled that you were on in Al’s time slot last week, so I could listen in full.
I’ve always been suspicious of those who felt it necessary to crusade on issues that (1) do not affect them and (2) do not affect anyone else they know. Do they fear that they harbor these things within themselves, and have to project their hate outward in order to hold it at bay? I wonder.
The hard-line crusaders also apparently have to relinquish whatever sense of humor they may have had when they sign on to all-hate, all-the-time; there just is no way to get them to laugh -even a little – at themselves.
But, there are those who have been pretty conservative, but not radically so, who can sometimes be nudged closer to reality with a little humor. I’ve had some practice with this, having been married to a Republican for 26 years…with my husband, I have started having conversations, not about politics, but about issues, and ones that affect us. I’ll get something going, and then when he’s really worked up, I’ll drop the “yeah, and Bush wants to…” which allows him to connect the dots without feeling like I’ve shoved it down his throat.
Anyway, I’ve found that matching the other side with equal measures of hatred and zealotry is useless in piercing the veil; I think it just makes them even more strident and dug-in.
culotte
One entry found for culotte.
Merriam Webster Online
Main Entry: culotte
Pronunciation: ‘k-”lt, ‘ky-; k-’lt, ky-’
Function: noun
Etymology: French, breeches, from diminutive of cul backside — more at CULET
: a divided skirt; also : a garment having a divided skirt — often used in plural
Right Fools at 72 — that’s true, but that pomposity of his just makes that all the more hilarious, doesn’t it? But really, we’re laughing with him. No. Honestly. *snerk*
Sam at 68 is similar to me at 69. And to Christy’s comment about falafel and O’Reilly. That’s the sort of thing that saps his respect, and this might be more effective than pointing out his lies (though I’m still glad Media Matters is there to do that, too).
67 thanks and hojo?
Sam and Stephen (68 & 69), thanks for the answers. And, also, thanks for coming in for this chat.
“I can’t even see the name O’Reilly now without thinking “falafel…loofah.” Mwahahahaha.”
Or ‘FOX SECURITY’! ROFL!
maybe “cullottes” would a more recognized spelling? “koulot” is indeed todays spelling! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culottes
Rj Eskwo @74, yeah, I’d say we’re mostly in category two. That’s certainly the easiest to do, but ideally one wants to do both. Though, like Sam said, persuasion, per se, is tough, but one thing humor can do very well is sap the target of respect and the ability to communicate with his or her own troops.
I’d like to say I’m wearing coulottes right now, but mine are more “capris.”
Sam at 80 — HoJo = Joe Lieberman. Can’t remember here who started that one this week, but it appears to have stuck fast…
For the fashion-illiterate among us:
Coulotte = Skort
(hope that doesn’t make things worse!)
culotte (kū-lŏt’, kyū-, kū’lŏt’, kyū’-)
n.
A woman’s full trousers cut to resemble a skirt. Often used in the plural.
[French, breeches, diminutive of cul, rump, from Latin cūlus.]
——-
Cullottes at WalMart I can handle. I dread the return of the stretch pants with stirrups.
Anne, @76, we actually have a chapter about converting republicans, much like you’re saying. The trick is to talk about the issue outside of a partisan context, and then once you’ve connected some dots, then bring up the fact that Bush, et al, disagree with what you’ve just gotten your target to agree with.
Christy 23
Somewhere I was reading (was it here?) that Wingnuts hold the stage all the time with their meaness, diatribes and made-up sh*t, and that liberals are no match for their decibel level, because we’re more likely to say, “Um, okay, so they want to (whatever), sure, okay by me”.
The person making this argument opined that the way liberals can get the stage back and make people hear us is with humor, and that the liberals who are being heard through the Right-wing Noise Machine are the funny ones, like you and Franken, Stephanie Miller and Jim, Stewart, Colbert and more.
Now that I think about it, I think I heard this discussion on AAR. :)
Stephen at 85 — I have a mental picture. Thanks.
Here is a visual to go with the conversation…
People reading FUBAR are also reading the following books — see link below.
http://www.orgnet.com/FUBAR.gif
Here is how to connect the dots/books:
A –> B : people reading book A also bought book B
Mostly the funny side of the current crop[07/06] of blue books… except for “American Theocracy” which a lot of people on the blue side are reading.
Thanks for revising FDR’s speech following Pearl Harbor (p 134). Kind of sums up the difference in our political leadership 60 years ago and now. Enjoyed the book (and bought one for a friend).
db @ 70
for me, no. I did a lot of writing and film/tv work as a director/actor and you wouldn’t hear a laugh for months. to my detriment i never cared about getting laughs as a standup- which has helped me in other endevours but not so much in stand up
And I don’t know if anybody has heard it yet, but Crooks and Liars has up the audio of Adam Corolla hanging up on Ann Coulter. It’s funny — and refreshing — since, unlike places like NBC, he gives her all the respect she deserves.
74 I’d agree with that, though i hope that maybe it will reach people who don’t neccesarily agree with all our shit but would be surprised to realise just how compromised the republicans have become to the fundies
Stephen at 95 — I heard that this morning and laughed by butt off. For everyone else, here’s the link:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..n-coulter/
Stephen 66
I wonder if Mark Luther and Carmine’s reluctance to change their positions in the face of, gulp, facts doesn’t have more to do with the very human need to save face more than anything else.
I mean, nobody wants to admit they are an idiot on national radio.
I have an idea that a more private approach would be more effective, if not such great radio.
Christie H.S. said:
Do you mean this horrible thing?
And take it from, when Sam said he didn’t care about laughs in his standup, he’s serious.
Sam at 2:28 pm –
I talk a decent amount about class and economic populist on the majority report.
Finding a killer ju-jitsu joke that captures the essence of the public mood can be a devastating political weapon.
In 2000, I sent Team Gore a joke that went something like: “George Bush wants a Supreme Court that will take us back to the ’90’s — that’s the 1890’s, or maybe the 1790’s.” Jesse Jackson ran with it, and it helped Al Gore win his 40,000 vote plurality in Florida. Of course, none of anticipated the SCOTUS 1 Bush 1 Vote interpretation of the equal protection clause.
Anyway — in yesterday’s Blue America thread, I wrote that Republicans believe economics are a zero sum game — which is why they have to steal from the poor and middle class to give welfare to the rich.
Democrats, on the other hand, believe that economic policies that increase the prosperity of working Americans benefit everyone. Looking at the track records of the Clinton years and the Bush era, even the investor class should agree with us.
Here’s the question — as professional humorists, can you craft jokes around economic issues that will be useful for Democrats, and capture both middle class anxiety and GOP hypocrisy?
Valdis, @92, very cool graphic.
culotte does not = skort. A skort is a skirt with built in shorts underneath it.
Really enjoyed the Tom Friedman Through The Ages section, as well as the rewrite of FDR’s Pearl Harbor speech.
I think the over-the-top style is a great way to highlight the present absurdities, both in the media, and in the pols.
Sapping the target of respect is a powerful tool. Many of us have used it (or tried to) without actually naming it.
If you can use it in a Rovian way – by attacking their perceived strength – so much the better.
Sam 80
HoJo = Holy Joe
and your little dog too…at 98 — The chapter that I talk about above (ch. 21) has some truly great ideas about getting an “ear worm” into the brain of your wingnut pals and relatives that eventually pierces the kool-aid veil. A lot of it is humor in that chapter, but like the whole of FUBAR, there is a lot that can be converted to practical application. As I said, the Super-Jewish Grandma part is priceless.
(Oh, and Sam, good on you for calling the Lieberman campaign manager guy on his “all Jews better vote for Joe or they aren’t good Jews” malarky from last week. That was just utter crap.)
waiting for cicero @104, thanks, and the thing is, you don’t even need to go over the top. Both of those, for example, were just a matter of transfering one thing to a different context. It can be surprisingly effective.
Tim Wayne at 99 — yes, but imagine it in a burgandy polyester, and you begin to see in your minds’ eye what I mean. Urgh.
Thanks Stephen… I was updating my blue book vs. red book chart so I thought I would zoom in and see what was happening around FUBAR.
Oh, the shame!
Alison @103, can you ever forgive my ignorance?
Going to fall, naked into a fetal position on the bathroom floor, now.
Sam,
What’s your theory on why very little is made of the $ billions wasted in Iraq on reconstruction, while at the same time our soldiers and equipment were so inadequate to provide protection and secure the peace? Shouldn’t some Republican in Congress at least be concerned with the wasted $$? Even if it is Haliburton?
Christy @107, that chapter was based on Sam’s idea that every Republican has at least one sensitive weak spot, which can be honed in on and used as the point of leverage to peel them away from the GOP.
Christy H.S. said:
Sorry. Each time I try to imagine it, blood starts gushing out my ears.
101..
that would be a good joke, i dunno, the thing is I don’t spend a lot of time trying to write jokes for the radio… the burn rate is just too high,
Little dog at 98 –
It’s remarkable how so many people invest politically in figureheads like Rush. Cheney is on Rush whenever the White House needs to speak widely to the base quickly…to clip a story during the campaign, or to get ahead of a politically bad news cycle.
Rush actually deflects it pretty well, and has found ways to make fun of himself. I think that’s one of the reasons he’s been such a durable celebrity.
The superjew grandma’s weak spot being that the right wing christians, who she believes support Israel so much, support it because of its role in the rapture and believe she’s be going to hell once it starts.
valdis- where do you get that info from?!
alison james 103 — ah but what about manpris?
Christy at 97. Just listened to the Coulter hangup. OMG. Funny as hell. Ann, why the long face? LOL!
THAT’S the type of stuff we need more of. Sap them of respect indeed.
And NO apoligizing for it. EVER!
Also, one of the best uses of political humor I’ve seen was Al’s address to the White House Correspondents dinner during the clinton years. I’m sure it’s still available online. It was both funny, and almost uncomfortable watching the targets sitting there fuming (until, of course, you remember what horrible people they are).
jane at 119 and james at 103 –
I’m now dizzy. Are you still talking about clothes?
Right Fools, I found that, when debating with Bush supporters before the 2004 election, the one area in which they all just shut up and started nodding while looking down was when I passionately spoke about the lack of armor for the troops and their humvees. It is a no-lose argument. When they tried to bring up Kerry’s vote against the $87 billion, all I had to say was “Well, Bush got that money anyway (98-2). What? Did John Kerry park his limo in front of the amory?”
Sam @ 118, from Amazon’s Top 100 Political books. Then each book page tells us which other books were bought by the same person…. so we get a “social network” of books
112…
they believe in nothing short of maintaining power… and they fear their “teammates” will be mad if they acknowledge any of the Iraq debacle
Stephen Sherrill — that chapter was based on Sam’s idea that every Republican has at least one sensitive weak spot
TRex thinks that they’re all a bunch of repressed closet cases destined to wind up wearing a “God hates fags” sandwich board at some dead soldier’s funeral unless we can find a way to get them to Ikea.
An interesting theory.
Jane @119, you mean these?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/im…..dal270.jpg
The only conservative I ever knew of with even a hint of a sense of humor was the otherwise odious and pompous William F. Buckley. In the 50’s (or perhaps early 60s)he ran as a third party candidate for mayor of NYC on the Conservative Party ticket. When asked what he’d do if he won, he replied, “Demand a recount.”
My late father’s motto was “always with a little humor” a good lesson I think. Public humor should always be at one’s own expense, never at others’, particularly if they can not fight back. Rush and his kind only pick on the helpless or absent. Typical bullying behavior.
Please Jacqrat, You’re forgiven. So get up off the bathroom floor, NOW. (And maybe put some clothes on–just not culottes)
Stephen at 121 — hehehehe I remember that. I’ll see if I can dig that up on YouTube or if Amato has that and I’ll see if he will post it. Too funny! Also, the Gore bit opening SNL this past season was the best thing they did all year. mweee heeee
And that was perfect use of ridicule and sarcasm and laughter to cut to the quick of the Bush Administration, on issues that even the lesser ditto-heads could find amusing on many levels. That is a great example, I think (and a good answer to your “contenders for 2008″ question, although he swears he’s not…)
valdis- wow that’s a lot of hoofin. thanks for the work
Josh Orton 116, I agree that when they can laugh at themselves it makes it tough to get milage out of mocking them. Scalia cracking up at Colbert’s gestures made me almost like him for 30 seconds.
Sam and Steve:
Did I read this in your book and assimilated it or did you inspire me?
Talking to a Repugnant true believer, ask casually, “so do you LIKE runaway deficits or is it just kind of a personality thing about Bush?”
I’m starting to think there is a personality cult around Bush, because of that 35% who never budge from thinking he’s just super, in the face of every. single. thing. he’s attempted has failed, together with his lameo-o social skills, his frequent pointless lies, and his five-year-old’s attention span.
Oh, and you can substitute anything relevant for the runaway deficit part.
126
and, of course, it is based on my knowledge that Ron Silver is a douchebag
Sam, do you have any suggestions for using humor to help a fundie understand just how offensive some of their assumptions are? I had a coworker (later canned for falsifying bank documents-hah!) who announced to me one day that if she and the other hardcore “Christian” disappeared, it meant that the Rapture had begun. She implied I was going to hell without blinking an eye. This is the same woman who cried how her right to celebrate Christmas was being trampled on when we switched to generic holiday decorations. (I loved your CNN interview about the “War on Christmas, btw.) It just kills me how these theocrats have coopted the language of civil rights!
petedownunder @128, apparently Dole had a great sense of humor, though his lack of it publically was one of the things that helped Clinton beat him.
Though, like you said, Dole’s humor was sharp, but more the barbed kind and at other people’s expense, which was maybe why he keeps it under wraps.
Sam, don’t forget Dennis Miller.
Stephen @ 121…
I remember seeing Al @ the WHC dinner. It was so good that I even got my non-political friends interested in watching it and talking about politics afterwards. We were all in our early 20’s and the humor was a great way to get people involved. I haven’t been able to find it online and have done a couple of searches.
BTW…I’ll be buying FUBAR tomorrow.
- Drama out.
manpris
S & S, thanks for being here. Remember this one? When Reagan was running against Jerry Ford in the ‘76 primaries (before he became an icon), Ford said “Ronnie doesn’t dye his hair, he’s just prematurely orange.”
Thanks again!
Stephen Sherrill 126 — wow that was fast.
Jane @126, we do include a chapter that has that great study from the U. of Georgia guys proving that homophobes are, yes, basically homosexual. Of course, that just confirms what we all mostly knew, but’s nice to have it backed up by science. Plus we got to use the word “plethysmograph”
I read somewhere that everyone is going to hell. There are at least two religions that promise that non-believers are going to hell. No one subscribes to both, and many of us to neither, so we’re all going to hell.
alton 135,
I had a coworker (later canned for falsifying bank documents-hah!) who announced to me one day that if she and the other hardcore “Christian” disappeared, it meant that the Rapture had begun.
Ot that they couldn’t find their car keys through their haze of masterbatory glee.
133– stephen will do the heavy lifting to see if you are quoting us, but i don’t think it is as complicated as a cult of personality… at the end of the day I think it is just a cult… built around a peversion of christianity and they belive he is one of them.
135
um, tape a “kick me” sign on her back and watch the hilarity? I don’t think you can convert zealots with anything short of massive economic hardship and even then you have to beat the church to their front door to feed them.
Jane at 139 — oh gawd, my eyes, my eyes.
Jane, funny you should mention those. Hadn’t heard the term so I googled it. Just yesterday I saw a guy on the subway with these and had the thought that only certain male body types can pull this off–this guy was NOT one of them. And imho no man should wear the wide-legged version.
To bring this back on topic re using humor: Any chance we could get a shot of Rush or O’Reilly in a pair?
Jane-139
Is that Repug. or Democrat wear?
and your little dog, too @133, I think that with the hardcore 30 percent or so, if Bush grew horns and started eating babies and puppies, they’d still support him. The trick is to keep his stable of supporters down to that 33 or so percent.
Right Fools at 148 — That’s Britney Spears’ husband. No idea of his politics, but she thinks the Preznit is just bitchin’.
Alton @135, there might not be much you can do to bring your coworker around, but by highlighting her own premise you can at least use her as an example and maybe convert some fence sitters to your side.
And as for comedians…Chris Rock is one who doesn’t get a lot of play in liberal media but who is overtly political and liberal. His last HBO special from a couple years ago was especially great…he kept coming back to a refrain for a bunch of it: “it’s just a trick to keep your mind off the war.”
I’m not sure why he doesn’t get more recognition for political stuff…any guesses?
Josh 32
All those Dems at the Prospect’s breakfast are awfully earnest, trying hard to be heard and get their word out.
It’s hard to be funny when you’re earnest.
Norquist, on the other hand is surfing above the consequences of anything, so he can get in touch with his inner humor – - no earnestness needed.
Stephen and Sam — I’d be interested in any media strategies that you guys have come up with in dealing with bias and snearing from the esteemed members of the press corps. (Bobo Brooks being a prime example of uninformed pomposity this morning.) Any success in dealing with the battered press syndrome and getting them to actually COVER issues?
And do you think the spunky and well-informed press corps in Chicago last week’s presser there might just shame the Washington crew back to doing their jobs? Or are we stuck with mediocrity and cocktail weenies forever?
I’m just sooo out of it.
Maybe that’s the genesis of their marital problems. He’s a Dem. Ccuzshe couldn’t object to the way he dresses.
Sam 134 — well they’re a humorless bunch that’s for sure.
I was watching Michelle Malkin on Hot Air (I always like to see what she picked up at Value Village that day). Now when I actually say the word “wingnut” I say it as a joke, it’s camp, it’s a punchline. You wouldn’t use the term in a serious discussion. But whenever she uses the term “moonbat” it’s like she’s thinking of putting an ice pick through someone’s head.
Hard to say which gross lack trumps the others — humor, self-awareness or fashion sense, but today I’m going with humor.
Josh @152, that’s a great example. When he does it, he’s amazingly good at it. I think the lack of recognatioon about it for Rock might be because the political stuff is smaller slice of the pie chart for him than it is for someone like Lewis Black, WIll Durst, or Dennis Miller (who I’ve never been able to find funny, by the way).
Josh at 152 — I luv Chris Rock. His humor is so biting, and so spot on.
Stephen 149
Yep, we can prevail over that 33%.
It’s just that when I see a number like that I am stupified that even 3% of people think he’s kool.
Sam@ 131, software does most of the heavy lifting — pattern matching, visualization and metrics. Here is a map of red/blue books from 2004…
http://www.orgnet.com/divided.html
I think that with the hardcore 30 percent or so, if Bush grew horns and started eating babies and puppies, they’d still support him. The trick is to keep his stable of supporters down to that 33 or so percent.
So aiming our ridicule at the 33 percenters is the best way to keep the others from going over to the undead dark side?
hmmm . . . might be easier with the redneck joe sixpack types than the neo-rapturistas, but it should make our job easier.
Jane @156, I watch that sometimes, too, just for the satisfying train wreck value of it. And I think all three of your choices are entertwined.
Josh Orton 152 — Chris Rock is brilliant. “Model smart” is an original CR term I often find useful in my daily life.
ck 161
“So aiming our ridicule at the 33 percenters is the best way to keep the others from going over to the undead dark side?”
Oooh! That’s an excellent point!
Christy @154. I think, especially with the cocktail weenie journalists, the best way is to deny them respect. Puncturing their self-importance is more effective than outright attack, since with the latter they just tell themselves that their attackers are jealous.
And we heard through the grapevine that Nagourney, for example, was none too happy about our attacks on him during the campaign.
In all seriousness you can’t persuade someone by ridiculing their beliefs. You have to meet them where they are and let them come around on their own, guided perhaps by information you provide. For example most of the that 33% of Bush hard core are the biggest victims of his policies. If they were able to understand that perhaps they would view matters differently. They support him because he respects their beliefs, however bizarre we may think they are.
Stephen Sherrill @ 151:
Good point. I truly believe one of the best ways to reach the “mainstream” as to the dangers of the religious right is to give them the biggest microphone possible when they start to talk amongst themselves about their agenda, Terri Schiavo and birth control being prime examples. Also the point made by the judge who knocked down the Intelligent Design loonies in, I think, Pennsylvania, about how they are basically lying in service of a religious agenda needs to be frequently repeated.
“Model Smart?”
christy @ 154
I think the wash press corps are hopeless.
On your other point, I dunno if we can effect those journo’s. the most extensive camopaign we’ve ever waged v. a journo was v. nagourney. back in july 04 he talked about some decrease in casualties in Iraq following the handover in late june and he was 180 degrees wrong. we used the majority report to slam his email and phone lines (workplace)in dc. another nytimes reporter called an aar exec to get me to lay off claiming we had shut down the nytimes wash office phone banks. I think we had some effect though i wouldn’t know how to measure it. stuff like adamnagourney.com got some attention and put him on notice that we were watching.
Stephen at 165 — Jane and I hear through the grapevine that people are unhappy with us a lot. We call it success. *g*
petedownunder @166…I agree with you, but one thing you can do is pick out the most extreme people on their side, and define their whole side by it, and use that to persuade the non true believers. And, these days, that’s not even really that hard, since, as we argue in the book, the extreme wing of the Republican Party IS the Republican Party.
Michelle Malkin…HEY! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..h=Michelle Malkin
Hey, Sam:
Your typing’s been just fine!
Christy @170: exactly. We were quite happy to hear about it.
Sam and Stephen, thank you for including the material on Rep. David Dreier and Brad Smith in the pages of a book. In fact, I used to date someone who is a longtime friend of both men (also a gay Republican). Because I had unlikely insider knowledge, it was fascinating to watch the original outing of Dreier by the L.A. Weekly in 2004.
But just so you know, it was in fact the dissolution of the Dreier-Smith romantic relationship a few years ago which, ironically enough, may have triggered a wider awareness in Washington about what had for decades been a well-guarded secret. Quarrels were apparently witnessed by other members of Dreier’s office staff, for example, as Smith began to fledge the nest and date others. There were other embarrassments.
Although Smith remains today as Dreier’s Chief-of-Staff, unless they have privately reconciled, they are in fact no longer a couple. Just so you know.
alton at 167 — that PA judge’s order was spot on and perfect, and ought to be textbook language for anyone dealing with ID thugs in any town across America. That he was able to put them in their place via the very superior “values” they claimed to be living (and clearly were not) was the best part of it. I need to go back and re-visit that one, thanks for the reminder.
Stephen Sherrill @149,
I don’t believe that Bush is down to 33% due to the actions or words of his opposition, nor do I believe that keeping him from rising above 33% will be due to the words or actions of his opposition.
If his ratings climb, it will be due to global or domestic circumstances beyond anyone’s control.
I’ll save my World Cup observations for the next thread.
175– thanks for the update. I’ve heard that there are numerous members of the republican caucus who won’t even shake his hand cuz he’s gay. sondercareerism at its best
Stephen @ 171. I agree with that. There are degrees of wingnuttia, and those at the far end are scaring those more toward the center who have a challenge in November.
It is too bad that political discourse in this country has become “entertainment”, and entertainment requires the exteme hateful nonsense of Ann Coulter and O’Reilly. It is like the political debate space in this country was on the Jerry Springer Show.
alton @167, that’s exactly what we try to do in the book, and what Sam does with the phone calls: shine a light on leaders on their side that most people have never heard of, but which reach millions on their side. They’re so unaccustomed to talking to someone outside their world, that it’s easy for them to believe Sam is in total agreement with them, which is also why they don’t realize how crazy what they’re saying sounds.
A lot of the country would be turned off if they could hear what a lot of the big-time (though unknown) right wing leaders are saying to rally their faithful.
S&S
Have you thought about doing an UNabridged version of your book on tape?
I loved listening to the book, but would listen again if I could hear the whole thing.
Okay, thats it. I’m going to Amamzon through firedoglake and getting my copy then I’ll go back and read these two threads. As Trex says, Always winter never Christmas!
Question: According to the “Left Behind” series, one fine day we will wake up and the true believers will have vanished, leaving behind the clothes they wore…..my question is what will we do with all of the tacky clothing?
Stephen 157 –
I’m not sure it’s because politics is a smaler slice of what he does. I kind of fear it’s a cultural thing…
I remember in college sitting with a group watching one of Rock’s old specials. Liberal people. But two of them left in the middle because they found him “distasteful.” That he was too mysogynistic, etc. Sometimes I hate liberals…
Quicksilver @145, that’s fascinating, and also amazing that more of that hasn’t come out.
ccmask at 183 — quilts. Lots of quilts.
Jane: How do I link to Amazon through the lake?
182
I’m not sure I understand the whole unabridged thing… I mean, I undertsand the word, but not how the book on tape was anything less than the actual book (maybe be a few cuts or changes to fit a diff medium)…
stephen am I wrong. it didn’t feel abridged when we were recording!
crankbait @177, I agree with you that world events are huge for pres’l poll numbers, but one big drag on Bush’s is the war, which he did choose to do.
Sam and Stephen,
Thanks for the laughs. My family especially loves your wingnut interviews. You are sooo smooth in getting them to open up, thinking you are a kindred spirit. Ewwww.
Do you remember – a few days after 911 there were news reports that the administration met with the heads of publishing houses, newspapers and movie studios. I think the WH clamped down after that cuz I never heard what they discussed and I’m so lame at framing Google questions that I haven’t found it there, either.
Do you know? Or was I just hallucinating?
bwwahhhhhhhhhhhhh REDD! Quilts of the Revolution.
ccmask — if you click through the link on FUBAR above (the very first one) it will take you to the Amazon page that is our Lake buy page. :) (Always trying to make it convenient for everyone…)
ccmask @183. Not to mention the music. What are we gonna do with a bunch of Toby Keith and Creed?
I’d like to thank you guys for signing my book at YKOS. But I realized laster that Sam wrote “A Republican just pooped his pants” as the salutation. How do we know that?
I believe the MSM are all part of Coporate America. And Corporate America has greatly benefited from Bush’s tax policy and media consolidation.
That plus the fact that they themselves believe there is a left wing bias to news coverage and they hate getting yelled at by the Right Wing even more than by the Left!
little dog 153 –
I don’t know if it’s earnestness that keeps them from humor, but you’re right about Norquist: I don’t think he has trouble sleeping at night. Easier to be funny when you feel no burden. On the other hand, it’s more important to be funny when you have an excuse not to be. Laugh to keep from crying.
I think the wash press corps are hopeless.
I’d say hopelessly conditioned to roll over, stand on their hind legs and beg for cocktail weenies, whenever the right wing says “liberal media bias.” The cushy McMansion right wing pundit gigs have an influence, too.
That said, I think FDL has had a major impact. It may be that the written word has a greater effect than radio broadcasts, or it might be the cumulative effect of all of our pushback. Either way, the right wingers have been at this since 1964, and we are new to the game.
Doesn’t Rush do transcripts of his broadcasts? As a force multiplier, it seems to be effective — can you do it with Air America?
mommybrain @191 I seem to remember meetings with “hollywood types” to a. be more creative in guessing how they would strike us (neccesary to make it seem that know one could imagine the use of planes as missles) and b. a how do we propogandise better message. i think we got some afghan and iraq war reality shows out of that..
Flamethrower @194. It’s part of total informational awareness. Sam has sources at the DHS.
Sam 182
Accccckkkk!!
You are right, of course. The Audible download was unabridged – - I just checked.
I’m just so used to all the liberal non-fiction books from them being abridged, that I assumed yours was, too.
(Blushing)
CHS 175 — Oh give off. Ryan Lizza loves me.
Josh @196: I think you’re onto something.There’s a certain kind of narrow humor that’s made easily possible when you just accept that you’re a prick. I’d put PJ O’Rourke in this category, every third humor piece from whom is all about how those hopeless Africans just can’t run a country! Plenty of people eat it up, but I think less because it’s funny than because it confirms parts of themselves they feel (rightly) guilty about.
Once again I’d like to echo Right Fools (195).
I haven’t heard squat about Net Neutrality on any tradtional media outlets. Practically Zero. When the 9/11 Commissioners gave the government an F for failing to get first responders the communications equipment they need, no media outlets investigated the causes of that failure… and that’s because the broadcasting companies themselves were part of the problem.
I don’t know if we’ll ever be able to rectify that problem, but with enough alternatives, like this blog, maybe we can hope to eventually augment the national dialog enough to compensate.
194… check out the stocks of adult diaper makers… all have risen in perfect proportion to sales of fubar. I won’t promise a one to one ratio of conservatives who shit themselves to each individual sale of fubar, however, I feel confident in the totality of right wing self soilings and sales trends of our book.
197
GREAT POINT. AAR has blown some real basics this is one of them. It’s a money issue but for me, this should be a higher priority
Sam and Stephen — we’ve talked quite a bit about humor, but in all seriousness, you guys packed a lot of factual punch into this book as well. (tried to show just a taste of it above.) In all of the radio broadcasts that you guys have done now, what’s the most effective means that you have found in getting the progressive message across? Anything? Are you picking up on any particular portion of the book that has resonated coast-to-coast from your book tour or from talking with fans or anything in particular that stands out?
Stephen Sherrill — I’ve never once laughed at PJ O’Rourke. Is it just me? It always seemed so forced.
Stephen 202 – Yeah. Easy to joke about being the victimizer, hard to laugh at yourself for being a victim. But I think it’s something we need more of…
and your little dog, too @200, if you want Sam and I could call and read you the parts we cut out…
sherrill @ 202
that’s exactly what i mean when i say conservatainment is about denial… it is very narrow and helps quell the conscience
Stephen Sherrill @ 3:37 pm (#193) – Not to mention the music. What are we gonna do with a bunch of Toby Keith and Creed?
That’s the good stuff – you might actually find someone who wants it. What’s to be done with all the “Christian rock” and “Christian rap”?
QuickSilver @ 175 I’m looking forward in a train wreck sorta way to the 26th Cd race. Ms. Matthews is out, his status is an open secret here. Fireworks or truce?
Jane at 206: I think it’s not because it’s bad humor, I think it’s because it’s literally not humor. It’s just quasi-racist a-holeness disguised as humor, which is why he’s so popular among a certain kind of date-rapey college republican (”date-rapey” being a term coined by my friend David Rakoff).
Jane Hamsher @ 3:43 pm (#206) – Maybe you didn’t catch him early enough. I thought O’Rourke was hilarious back when he wrote for the National Lampoon in the ’70s.
Jane at 201 — not something I’d be putting in my “brag” category. I’m just sayin’. *g*
Stephen 208
WooHoo!!!
Poking fun at Santorum and his “man on dog” statement is funny in blogsville, but I don’t think that kind of humor goes over well with the undecideds. What kind of humor put down would work for someone as dangerous as Santorum in the red states?
Stephen Sherrill @ 202,
You may be on to something about O’Rourke’s humor. I haven’t been able to figure out what he really believes since he announced his new Conservative self.
I am old enough to have received the “Or We’ll Shoot This Dog” Lampoon issue by subsciption. Surely that kind of satirical humor doesn’t just dissolve away over time?
QuickSilver @ 175:
When DeLay stepped down as Speaker, Dreier was the original replacement. He was shot down by the far right party homophobes, as well as by Bush’s kitchen cabinet televangelists, and I remember Josh Marshall commenting that this was significant, because as far as he knew, this was the first time s/o had been refused a leadership position due to their orientation.
Which also brings up the question of whether anyone has filed a FOIA request as to who else besides Abramoff has been a frequent visitor to the WH? When Pat Robertson was suggesting that Chavez in Venezuala be assassinated, was he also hanging out in the Oval?
Christy @205: one way is, like I said above, to simply shine a light on some of their big-time but hidden-from-the-media leaders.
I also think attacking them at their strenghts (like they’re so effective in doing with us) is effective, and here I’m thinking of things like the Fighting Dems, which is just one small part of showing the public that the GOP is not the party that supports service members.
Ronald Reagan made it safe to hate again . . .
Rush Limbaugh made hatred humor kewl . . .
Mommbrain 210
Who’s Matthews?
Dish!
christy @ 205… at first blush it may not seem like much but I think the most important thing progressive talk radio has done is to make progressives feel less isolated in their opinion that the country is off track.. it emboldens people.
we are still in our nascency and i don’t think we’ve fully harnessed what we should be able to… with that said, i feel like we’ve been able to amplify a lot of what has been going on online. I feel like we’ve been able to enable the left… to commodify writers, voices, bloggers, liberal outlets etc, who otherwise wouldn’t get a shake in the marketplace.
Stephen at 219 — agreed that the “Fighting Dems” thing is sheer genius. Especially if it works. ;-)
ding @ 3:50 pm (#216) – Maybe ask when Mrs. Santorum plans on putting up curtains?
Christy, in answer to your question about what’s been effective on the book tour, one thing that’s been good are the phone calls. We play them during the reading, and it’s interesting that even in a roomful of hyper news-aware liberals, a lot of this is surprising to them. There’s often an audible shock that comes from the audience when they realize this is real.
Stephen Sherrill — I think it’s not because it’s bad humor, I think it’s because it’s literally not humor. It’s just quasi-racist a-holeness disguised as humor, which is why he’s so popular among a certain kind of date-rapey college republican.
Hence its popularity at Red State. I remember when Ben Domenech chose O’Rourke to lionize, I thought “well that says a lot.”
It’s what third graders who really, really got off on Polish jokes grew up to be.
for truly weird Christian music: it was maxed out when I heard heavy metal German rap doing the Ten Commandments … it seemed like “Dont kill or I will run you over with my Panzer, motherfucker”
ding @ 216, one word.
Gabriel
I told my mom and sister (both Rapture Right types) about Rick bringing home Gabriel for the children to meet, and they thought he was fucking crazy.
They are both still anti-choice, but they think Rick (All I’m asking is that you put a bumper sticker on your car) Santorum belongs in the nuthouse.
Stephen-LOL wrt the music–I just bought your book and I can’t wait to read it. I thought you should know that on the Amazon page, it said that most people who buy this book also buy Godless.
With the fall of Jimmy and Tammy Baker due to how much of the wealth they brought in was spent on themselves, the crying of Jimmy Swaggart when he admitted to spending some quality time with a prostitute, the insanity of the words that spill from Pat Robertson’s mouth, (I wonder how his interest in a diamond mine in the African country with the worst human rights record in the world is doing,) the support of a violent game pitting holier than thou Christians against sinful liberal New Yorkers who are offered a chance to be born again or die, and the freakish behavior of various fascio-Christian groups around the country, I suspected that this brand of snake-oil sales was going to finally fade away into the darkness of their conniving means of extracting money from their followers.
Then the Bush administration restored credibility to the manipulators of superstition by buying them off with the so-called faith based initiatives, which is just another way of the administration saying, “You boys play ball with us, and we’ll make you look like stars, and then watch the money come rolling in. We’ll have every taxpayer in America paying you con men the kind of money you know you deserve. In return we only ask that you make sure that your paritioners know that god is on George Bush’s side no matter what he does to this country, and that anyone who opposes him is the spawn of Satan.”
Sam at 222 — I think that is spot on. I can’t tell you how many times a week that we get that in the comments from readers who finally step out and comment and say thanks for them finally feeling like they aren’t alone in their political sentiments.
And that truly pisses me off about the decline of Democratic party apparatus around the country. I know Howard Dean is working hard on that, and it is NOT his fault that things are int he state that they are in, but good heavens, that is just so wrong on so many levels. But I am thrilled that we can provide a place where folks can come and hang out and feel empowered. I think Air America has been a HUGE part of that, for everyone — but especially for propelling so many new voices forward as progressives (instead of the same old DINOs).
ccmask@229,
I don’t think so…
To build on Sam @222, one thing that the right (and the right leaning anti-blog shills) fail to note when they attack the netroots and AAR for “attacking” the liebermans of the world is that we also encourage those who do the right thing. On The Majority Report, we’ve often booked some congresssman or senator because they did the right thing and we want them to know that that can be rewarded.
And, also on what Sam is saying, one of the thing other good things, beyond making progressives feel less isolated, is to get them used to fighting, and to feel comfortable in an aggressive posture. That can make a big difference after a few years.
and your little dog, too: Cynthia Matthews is his Dem opponent, the beneficiary of the rotten push polling done the day before the primary. This is her second run at Dreier’s seat. She came pretty close last time, mostly because of some radio campaign by two dj’s I never heard of who were mad at him for something or other.
She’s a fighter, though, I’ll give her that. She was not the candidate endorsed by the CDP. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I’m not convinced she’s qualified. Plus I personally don’t like her or the thugs in her posse.
End dish.
Uhmmm…..yes it did.
These are the current FUBAR also-boughts…
Armed Madhouse : Who’s Afraid of Osama Wolf?, China Floats, Bush Sinks, The Scheme to Steal ‘08,No Child’s Behind Left, and Other Dispatches from the Front Lines of th Hardcover by Greg Palast
The Big Encyclopedia of Republican Hypocrites Hardcover by Randi Rhodes
How Would a Patriot Act? Defending American Values from a President Run Amok Paperback by Glenn Greenwald
Lapdogs : How the Press Rolled Over for Bush Hardcover by Eric Boehlert
Hostile Takeover : How Big Money and Corruption Conquered Our Government–and How We Take It Back Hardcover by David Sirota
American Theocracy : The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21stCentury Hardcover by Kevin Phillips
Crashing the Gate: Netroots, Grassroots, and the Rise of People-Powered Politics Hardcover by Jerome Armstrong
The Truth (with jokes) Hardcover by Al Franken
The One Percent Doctrine
I don’t want to let mainline Xtian denominations, especially their leaders, off the hook in this discussion. Led by Luther and the later reformers, Xtians took a huge step forward (starting in the Enlightenment as a result of the 100 years War) in religious terms by deveopling an understanding of the possibility of “universal salvation,” or “anonymous Xtianity,” the idea that God could save someone who did not confess Jesus his Lord and Savior. Even a lot of Roman Catholic theologians adopted this “pluralism” at Vatican II @1962.
The problem is, as the Reformers found out, it’s harder to get people to attend services and donate if they are not scared they are going to hell for missing a weekly service. If you accept the possibility of universal salvation, and the pluralism that goes along with it, organized religion becomes a ritualized opportunity to share your faith in a community. Neocons have exploited this looser structure to manufacture the “War on Xmas” and so many other sub-human and sub-Xtian fallacies as though they were part of the creed, the real core beliefs of Xtianity. Until Xtians and especially their hierarchies reclaim the most adequate interpretations of their core faith, the social, as well as the private, the neocons will continue to hurt us here.
Jane @226: …or the sort of kids who liked to experiment with fireworks and neighborhood animals.
Sam Seder 222 — we are still in our nascency and i don’t think we’ve fully harnessed what we should be able to…
Absolutely. I realize there’s probably something reassuring to people about hearing the same voice on the radio day after day, but whenever I hear Rush or any of the other member of the wingnut gasbag brigade I think if I had to listen to that every day I’d open a vein.
It just takes time I imagine, but eventually I do believe people would rather listen to someone funny and smart rather than someone boring and borish.
*ilson46201 @ 3:54 pm (#227) – Perhaps there’s comic potential there I hadn’t considered …
I used to have cable TV, which meant that every once in a while I had to channel surf through the TBS (Trinity Broadcast Service). On late Friday and Saturday nights they’d have rock and rap nights. The rock was pretty much what you’d imagine. The rap was done by this white (and I mean white) guy in a blue blazer and tie. It was laugh-out-loud funny even with the sound down.
Stephen Sherrill 223 — yeah I gave Pool Boy props the other day. It was painful but had to be done.
The Big Encyclopedia of Republican Hypocrites Hardcover by Randi Rhodes
Randi (my 2nd fav AAR host)has a book? I didn’t even know that. Has anybody ever heard her mention on her show? Wow!
ccmask @229: re: coulter, yeah, I saw that. Not sure what’s going on. A few conservative blogs have written about — I think we were targeted by someone. If they’re spending their time doing stuff like that, though, fine by me.
What do customers ultimately buy after viewing items like this?
89% buy Godless: The Church of Liberalism by Ann Coulter $15.65
8% buy the item featured on this page:F.U.B.A.R. : America’s Right-Wing Nightmare by Sam Seder $15.57
2% buy Bush on the Couch : Inside the Mind of the President by Justin A. Frank $9.72
1% buy Censored 2006 : The Top 25 Censored Stories (Censored) by Project Censored $12.32
I imagine people are buying her book for plagiarism research lately….
mrowrrrr ccmask at 245
Mark c @242: I don’t think Randi’s is out yet. Scheduled for August, or at least it used to be.
Jane @ 139
I listen to rush or check in on what he’s saying with some regularity. I am impressed with his ability propogandize and, frankly, lie. It is his supposed humor that i find unbearable… i think it’s because i’ve spent most of my adult life doing comedy
with that said, rush gives his audience licsence to not feel bad about katrina victims, to not concern themselves with the death and violence done in iraq, to not question themselves. I think he is very reassuring to his listeners… he absolves them of having to care about anybody but themselves
“…or the sort of kids who liked to experiment with fireworks and neighborhood animals.”
——————-
That was a science project. I swear.
Mommybrain 234
Thanks. That push-polling story makes me shudder.
Cujo359 says @ 224 and Waiting for Cicero says @228
Both are good points, but I can’t see Bob Casey exploiting either one.
Maybe Casey needs to hire a Sam or Stephen to warm up the audience 1st
crank bait @249: …the sort that you could probably get a NIS grant under the current administration.
So, is there a follow-up book in the works (she says hopefully)?
c @ 244
note:
like this?
I don’t think people are viewing FUBAR and buying coulter’s book (not that I care) I think they are buying coulter’s book after viewing products “like” fubar, ie political books or satire. It is possible that they all view coulter’s book and then buy it.
yes, after VIEWING, not “also bought” !
An easy trick… go to this page first: X , but then buy the book on this page: Y
It screws up Amazon’s viewing data for a while, but the real trend is where people put down actual money the also-bought data.
…….or Senators that dissect kittens.
Been cleaning parrot cage (without their cooperation, but I am still intact, a triumph of trans-specific negotiation), so I’m late to the party as usual.
Humor is one of the most potent tools of education I know of, so long as your intended audience isn’t the butt.
When I was giving programs on ecology, wildlife, and native plant gardening, I was never so persuasive as when I got the audience laughing. I had a couple of stock self-deprecating lines that got them giggling and all relaxed with me and ready to laugh at any ex tempore jokes (the only kind I can manage). They were willing to ask questions betraying total ignorance because I made it okay by exposing mine, and so a lot of people got to thinking about the world in an entirely different way.
So this book just might offer a super, killer, win-the-day toolkit for us all.
And yeah, the wit and humor on this site keeps me from weeping with rage, pain, & frustration, and lets me hope a little that the branch of the human race more like bonobos than chimps will eventually prevail. . . I will be ordering FUBAR (an acronym I learned in the 70’s working for the military in Europe) from B&N, less’n you tell me different. I’ve read Amazon donates to righties, but would like to be disabused of this notion.
Hyp
Sam @ 248, it really does come down to appealing to the better or lesser part of people. Arianna tells the story of when she was still a conservative, and gave a speech to some big GOP crowd, and the person that preceeded her was, I think Floyd Brown. His speech was full of the usual hate mongering, and he got a standing ovation. She went up and gave a speech about volunteerism and also got a standing o, from the same crowd.
christy @ 253
holy shit, fubar just came out 6 weeks ago! I need to take a nap. Though stephen and i have been kicking some ideas around.
Top seqwet idewas
Christy @253, no follow up book yet, but possibly. I’m told Harper Collins is happy with it, so we’ll always be happy to relieve Rupert Murdoch of some more of his money.
the decline of Democratic party apparatus around the country.
Our problems began with Watergate. Before Nixon, Americans thought government was a force for good. After Watergate, Government = Bad.
After Watergate, everyone ran as an outsider. Jimmy Carter was the 1976 outsider, but the aura of mal-administration malaise he brought into the White House opened the door for Reagan. And when it comes to Anti-Government Outsiderism, the GOP has us beat six ways to Sunday.
That said, the Democrats have really dropped the ball on this. Instead of re-grouping, they hunkered down as safe seat free lancers, who run against the Democratic Party as often as they run with it. Clinton’s fumbles in his first two years reinforced the GOP stereotypes, and here we are.
Of course, what is totally infuriating is that the Democrats still don’t get it. We are their best friends and best resource, but they are so insulated from the real world they see us as a threat instead of an ally.
If the secret plans of the rabid lambs come to fruition, Ned Lamont will change all that.
We’re doing a rebuttal to Coutler, called “Godful.”
…or presidents who put firecrackers down frogs throats and light them. (Source: Bush on the Couch, by Justin A. Frank)
and your little dog, too: For a couple of days after I heard about the push poll, every time I talked about it I was near tears.
Just planting the seed, boys. Just planting the seed…
Seriously, you should think about it. This was a fantastic way to deal with some really difficult issues in a style that was easily digestible for the non-wonks. Not the easiest thing in the world to do. The fact that I laughed the entire way on a cross-country plane flight while reading it didn’t hurt, either.
#210, Fireworks or truce? If Matthews does one good thing, it’s to hammer the hypocrisy on this. I find it ironic that by the time Dreier was actually outed by Doug Ireland in the L.A. Weekly, the relationship between Dreier and Smith was (essentially) over. I have wondered whether Ireland actually knew that or not, and perhaps glossed over that fact to stress Smith’s salary level.
#218 Dreier and Smith have certainly suffered a lot of private grief. Dreier has had to defend this accusation directly within Republican circles. Smith is considered an extremely competent CoS by all accounts, and the notion of nepotism seems forced to people who have seen firsthand how efficiently Dreier’s operation is run. (If that sounds like Stockholm Syndrome, consider the source is my Republican ex-boyfriend.)
Wasn’t it Barney Frank who was asked whether Dreier was passed over for DeLay’s job because he was too gay or too liberal? Frank said, “too liberal.” He then deadpanned, “and after work, I go to a liberal bar….”
-ck- @261, re “…[Democrats] who run against the Democratic Party as often as they run with it…”
I hoping that’s already changed. I think even if Ned loses, I can’t imagine any Senators that want to be in a race like Lieberman’s after two terms.
Quicksilver @266, great quote from Barney. hadn’t heard that.
Sam: Do you watch the Daily Show and what did you think of Colbert at that press party?
“The fact that I laughed the entire way on a cross-country plane flight while reading it didn’t hurt, either.”
——————-
Everything is funnier than a plane flight.
Hypatia @ 4:10 pm (#257) – Last time I was paying attention, I thought that biologists believed chimps were more nearly like us than bonobos. Is it really more of a tie?
It’s OK by me if that’s true – chimps are nasty little buggers.
Liberman is an unusual case. Most dems in blue states are careful not to appear to be sleeping with the enemy. Don’t know who is out there to learn from the Liberman problem.
Dems in red states will keep doin the best they can with whatever sells locally. Dems in blue states try to keep it between the ditches.
ccmask: I watch colbert more than the daily show… colbert is simply more political
I thought colbert was great at the cor. dinner. He had to balls to do what few comedians/perfomers would… risk/ensure that he would not get reinvited to anything like that
we are closer to the bononos — the Preznit, on the other hand …
I love Sam Seder on Air America. Thank God he was subbing for Al last week because they took his show off the air in Sacramento. Hope to hear you subbing for others, Sam!
And what about Mike Malloy? I love that guy!
As for FUBAR — I just got it yesterday. Can’t wait to read it!
*ilson46201 @ 4:19 pm (#274) – We’re closer to the Bonos?
Before we wind things down completely, I just want to take a moment to thank Sam and Stephen (and Josh) for taking the time to hang with us at FDL and talk about F.U.B.A.R. This has been a great discussion, two weeks in a row, on a fantastic read, and I’m so happy that you guys could join us today! (And that Stephen could make it home in one piece from Little Italy, which may be a minor miracle today…)
rwcole: 272
you may be right that there’s no one like lieberman to learn the lesson of lieberman, but i do think the lamont run, either way will communicate to some in washington the fervor of anti war and disassociation with washington notions in general.
rwcole @272, though as Markos, among others, has pointed out, that’s partly why Lieberman is getting so much shit. The press, and morons like David Brooks, like to think the Lieberman thing is just about left vs.right. It’s not. There are several conservative senators who rarely get attacked — both Nelsons, Landrieu, et al.
I remember sometime last year where Markos has a post (which we echoed on the MR), about who Ben Nelson was on Meet the Press and Tim was trying to get him to stab the Dems in the back. Can’t remember the actual issue, but Nelson refused to do it. He basically just said, this is what I think on this issue, I know there are others who disagree.
It’s not that Lieberman goes the other way, it’s how he does it that’s earned him all this wrath — something that Brooks seems completely clueless about.
Cujo, it’s the bononos, for people who are allergic to bananas.
I recently watched the Luis Black special. He said he practised for 3 months what he was going to do and was approached by Bush’s handlers as to what he would do. Anyhow, the pope died and instead of Bush, Cheney showed up. Much much worse with Cheney sitting in front of you. He said the pope knew he was a jew and did it on purpose.
Yes, thx Sam and Steve. Sam glad to have you back on at night as of tomorrow. Maybe I will get a chance to listen to your whole show for the first time in two weeks. It’s hard during the day. Effin boss and all………
Thanks Christy and Jane.
Thank you Christy, this has been great and the whole FDL salon is a fantastic and much needed institution for the left.
Thanks to everyone who stopped by today
gotta go in a sec, baby bedtime
Christy @277, thanks again for having us. And, yes, I was lucky in Little Italy. I was going for France. (until the Zidane incident, which those who watch will know of). After that, it was hard to root for France. So I switched over, just like Holy Joe.
Thanks for the interesting conversation.
rwcole & -ck,
What drives me wild are the Dems like Durbin who refuse to say they will support Lamont if he wins the nomination!
Shameless plug for a hometown candidate.
Bill Winter is running for the CO 6th CD against Tom Tancredo. Bill is a Fighting Dem and a great guy. Tom is . . . well, ’nuff said.
Bill is vying for the top slot in the Mark Warner Map Changer contest, with the winner getting a Warner fundraiser and $5k. (I think all of the top ten finalists should get fundraisers, but that’s just me.)
Anyway — somebody from DFA sent out an email asking people to support John Courage in the TX-21. While John is a great guy, what effect will he have on the Texas map? Will it turn from red to blue, or even purple? Not likely.
Here’s the deal with Bill Winter — if this district goes Purple, Colorado goes Blue; if Bill Winter wins, Colorado goes solid Blue. It’s that simple.
Anyway — your support will be greatly appreciated.
http://www.forwardtogetherpac.com/mapchangers
http://www.winterforcongress.com/
Thanks Sam and Stephen.
Christy, Sam, and Stephen:
Thank you so much. I think discussions like this are our strength. The Word of God party cripples itself by seeking acolytes instead of participants.
Sam Sedar 254 — you can’t blame FUBAR buyers if they stop by the Coulter page for the freak show.
Thanks Sam and Stephen. Hope the book continues to do well.
Coming in late, but Sam, you are terrific! You did drive me crazy the day you announced you were doing a book signing in Los Angeles. Where, Sam, Where? You mentioned Venice in a very offhand way and I was thinking… Beyond Baroque. Went to their website and… no Sam!
I live just a few blocks from there and really wanted to support you.
Anyway, your show is tremendous and I listen all the time. You da man.
Oops…and thank you, Jane!
Mommybrain @ 4:22 pm (#280) – Cujo, it’s the bononos, for people who are allergic to bananas.
I must be more like the chimps, then.
Jenny @ 292, our reading was at 826LA, in Venice. Don’t think we’re doing another in LA, but our reading at the Strand in NY on July 17th might be on C-SPAN…
Ah, I just got my first taste of the famous FDL EPU… :)
Thank you Sam and Stephan and Mark and Jane and Christy and every last dang commenter — FDL rocks and F.U.B.A.R. is da’ bomb!!!
Stephen -
I will absolutely be there in spirit on the 17th.
Stephen at 295 — stop teasing me. The Strand is one of my very favorite places on earth. (Man, I miss NYC sometimes…)
The Strand is one of my very favorite places on earth.
Totally OT, but “Strand” is an Old Norse word, meaning long sandy beach. Which is why The Strand of Normandy was the perfect place for the D-Day invasion.
jenny from the b
sorry… I suck at plugging stuff on air… worlking on it
I had never heard on Nolita until last month in NYC. I had lived in Manhattan in the late 70’s and 80’s and never heard that term Nolita before. Nolita is north of Little Italy.
OT, did anybody catch/discuss this already:
Lanny Davis, Former White House Special Counsel, Clinton Admin., 1996-1998 & Katrina Vanden Heuvel, The Nation, Editor, discuss the Connecticut Senate race between Sen. Joe Lieberman and challenger Ned Lamont.
7/9/2006: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 1 min.
And, by the way, here was Little Italy…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondant/185856970/
Oh hell– too late again!
I wanted to ask you guys what you thoiught of the dissing the NYT Book Review gave Mary Cheney’s memoirs.
The NYT Book Review is edited by Sam Tenenhaus, whose cleulessness about Whittaker Cahmbers sexuality makes for hilarious reading.
Holy Crap, Stephen — that’s like a Sopranos casting call…
OT, and about to be EPUed, and now I can’t get DKos to load, but here goes anyway:
If it hasn’t been covered already, the Lie-Berman campaign ran a commercial today with a fabricated Lamont bumper sticker and a bogus Lamont website. I think Digby’s picked up on it, too.
I couldn’t find this info on the previous FDL thread, so profound apologies if this comment is redundant.
Oh my gosh Stephen–what a crowd! Little Italy is actually shrinking every year into Chinatown.
ck at 287 – Oh, come now, let’s not oppose good guy to good guy. Full disclosure – I live in Tx-21 — but electing Courage will displace one of the worst, but depressingly influential Rethugs, Lamar Smith. Smith is one of the leaders on bad immigration bills, and he’s been in Congress long enough to have considerable seniority.
So, if you can afford it, a little love for Courage, too (a fighting Dem and a school teacher, fwiw) would be appreciated.
Front-paged at DKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/
Talk about desperate.
al-Scooter: the bogus Lamont bumpersticker with the dead http://www.nomorejoe.org link? you know a campaign is damn desperate when they have to just make shit up!
*ilson, the very one!
Talk about chicken lips!
ccmask @ 308, yeah, there’s barely any little italy left. And this was really more Nolita, which isn’t quite as Soprano’s like. It was a great scene, though. Adidas sponsored it, put up a bit 30 foot screen and the whole area just filled in. Before the game, people of each side were singing the fight songs of their respective sides. One of those great days to be in NY. (you should come back, Christy).
tejanarusa –
Hey, I totally support John Courage — it’s this winner-take-all Mark Warner Mapchanger thingy that’s crazy.
Seriously — Mark Warner should do a fundraiser for ALL of the finalists, because what’s good for Democrats is good for Mark Warner.
Anyway — Go Democrats!!! Go, Fight, WIN!!!
al-scooter- Wow! Joe knew pretty early he was toast.
Apparently Lie-Berman has to Rove-up his campaign.
*ilson46201 @ 4:54 pm (#311) – nomorejoe.org is a registered domain name for someone in Phoenix, AZ. It was registered in July of 2005, so it probably has nothing to do with Ned Lamont.
new thread — stand back! Jane’s letting him have it!
Speaking of Little Italys’ — Northwest Denver was home to the Italian Community, and the Mt Carmel Church is the last bastion. The population is maybe 40% Hispanic, 10% Italian, and 50% Other.
Gaetanos’ Italian Restaurant, the “social club” of the Smaldone wise guys, was recently purchased by the restaurant group owned by Mayor Hickenlooper. “Italian to Die For” — logo on the new awnings.
http://www.gaetanositalian.com/
Cujo at 317 — it was registered to a guy running for Sheriff against Joe Arpayo. If you’ve ever been to the Phoenix area, you’ll kno who that is.
followon to my 5:04 pm (#317) – The domain is registered to a Highground, Inc., whose web site is at http://www.azhighground.com. They describe themselves thus:
The firm’s strategic approach to public affairs is rooted in a background of political campaign and public sector issue management. The HighGround team has built a career from successes in campaign and public affairs issue management.
The HighGround team has an unparalleled understanding of Arizona government and public affairs:
So whatever’s going on at nomorejoe.org, it would seem to have nothing to do with either Ned or Connecticut.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 5:08 pm (#320) – That explains it…
A movie on July 28th that you don’t want to miss! Check out the trailer on Google.
http://video.google.com/videop…..7215293198
Rapturewatch.com.
Saturday, July 8, 2006. No rapture.
Sunday, July 9, 2006. No rapture.