Whoo Hooo Ned…oh and Fitz and FDL!

Yes war profiteer slimeballs! I would bet Cheney is the chief. It may not have hit his bank account yet, but I bet there is a giant pile of money waiting for him from Haliburton.

You go girl….annanola

Sigh. Bush has made the “Total Bastards” pie so much higher that it’s starting to tip over.

war and misery profiteers!

Iraq, Afghanistan and the Gulf Coast.

i’m sure there’s more, just don’t want to go there just yet.

Greenwald!

Are the Greenwalds related?

I know, I know, it’s not like it’s a unique name or anything…

Yikes! EPU-ed on last thread, but this fits here as well.

Chiming in late on Big Eddie Schultz…yep, there’s a backstory there, and some of us know some slices of it…but then Fargo’s still a small city.

Will take the high road and just observe that the best argument to put to him is that Lamont is to Lieberman as Webb is to Allen. He likes Webb.

Are people aware that the U.S. has out-sourced an enormous amount of the jobs that the Armed Forces have done for themselves for 250 years? Why? Because this is the least obvious way they can give billions of unaccounted for profits to guess who..Halliburton and in the process line their own pockets. The U.S. military is not for sale. It has already been sold, not even to the lowest-bidder but to no-bid contractors, again, Halliburton and friends. But so what? Bush is the guy people want to have a beer with. I am not sure that I am capable of getting any angrier or outraged than I am now.

When and when is this film going to be shown?

And those low bid contracts give big bucks to the Americans and then pay slave wages to the very poor from all over the globe.

Our tax dollars at work.

Mary Alice @9:

It’s more like the military is unwanted competition, sucking up all that taxpayer money that should rightfully go to Halliburton and Blackwater…

OK, for the sake of tradition…

FITZ!

uh, I guess I got pre-FITZED…didn’t see that.

I AM FIREDOGLAKE!

uh, I guess I got pre-FITZED…didn’t see that.

It’s no high Fitz, but it gets by.

premature Fitzulation ?

immanfiredoglake!

BLOG POWER (Go Ned!)!

Great post, Jane. I wish my name was on the contributor’s list — can’t wait to see the whole film.

It is we who are your firedoglakes.

Hit ‘em with the fainting couch!

All your doglegs is belong to us!

But your sandtraps you can keep. Ptui!

All your doglegs is belong to us!

Funny, I was just thinking “All your Fitz are belong to us”…

All my puns is belong to ‘aise. Not that he’d want them.

Mary Alice @ 5:46 pm (#9) - I am, but I’ve worked with that system for a long time. There seems to be some underlying assumption that the “private sector” is inherently more efficient. I haven’t seen any reason to assume that this is actually so. At times, it seems to be the opposite.

This is a trend that began in WWII, where companies were brought into the war effort, and often their employees worked in positions near the lines. Since then, this practice has just grown to where we see it now. I remember people who had worked for contractors in Vietnam saying that they were often better armed than the soldiers. I don’t know if it can continue this way much longer, but it seems as if this administration, at least, doesn’t want to stop the trend.

One thing that seems to be new about this war, or at least I have not heard of it before, is the use of private contractors for security. As we’ve discussed here before, this is a troubling development, because those contractors don’t seem to have to play by the same rules as the soldiers do. That the Iraqis aren’t necessarily going to make a distinction between those two groups should be obvious, and it’s why I think this is troubling.

No you aren’t Imman. You are HUGE RIGHT and:

FIREGODLIKE

*g*

EPU’d an answer to you below.

this is a troubling development, because those contractors don’t seem to have to play by the same rules as the soldiers do.

I’m beginning to wonder if the soldiers have to play by those rules either…

Can I get a t-shirt that says that?

“There seems to be some underlying assumption that the “private sector” is inherently more efficient.”
I agree. I’m oversimplifying here, but I think this has something to do with the lack of competition. Oligarchies dominate the U.S. and World economy. A limited number of multinationals carve up most most markets. Blogs would be an exception. It appears that they have decided it is more profitable to leverage their status as an oligarchy, than to compete and then have to take on governments as a full-fledged monopoly. Price fixing is pretty automatic and gradually they vertically integrate.

Eli @ 6:04 pm (#27) - I’m beginning to wonder if the soldiers have to play by those rules either

They do. That’s why some of them are under arrest.

But only some of them, Cujo. Some, meaning lowest level grunts. Occupation inevitably leads to tyrany. Even benificent occupation. Isn’t that what all that 1776 stuff was about anyway?

Some, meaning lowest level grunts.

Low-level grunts = bad apples.

Eli, where did you get a copy of the triple secret Bush decoder spin dictionary?!

Eli, where did you get a copy of the triple secret Bush decoder spin dictionary?!

I have reverse-engineered it through careful study of the media.

John Casper @ 6:08 pm (#29) - Many of the contracts that the DoD lets, including most of the ones I’ve labored under, are “services” contracts, which basically means that some company provides our services to the government, rather like Kelly Services or one of those other temp agencies. They don’t have any product other than the labor of their employees. There’s no incentive on those contracts to make the processes more labor efficient, and there’s litte incentive to make them cost efficient in other ways. In fact, arguing with the people who run the contracts about such things is viewed as bad form, because the companies would be arguing with their customer, maybe their sole customer.

Eli is now a rock star.

In fact, arguing with the people who run the contracts about such things is viewed as bad form, because the companies would be arguing with their customer, maybe their sole customer.

So… using leverage is considered unsporting? I guess that’s why they didn’t allow it in the prescription drug bill.

Eli is now a rock star.

Eli is… a bit mystified. Boney M??? Who knew.

Thanks for the blogroll, BTW - did you ever connect with ronjazz?

OT, But Mark Shields was a hero on the NewsHour tonight. He pointedly said that the War was only one part of Holy Joe’s problem, and then went on to recite all of the reasons why Connecticut Democrats feel betrayed. It was great.

Brooks was his usual three piece peckerwood self . . .

Cujo at 6:13, bullseye.

Cujo (25)
Daddy Warbucks?
Spanish-American War profiteers?
Shoddy shoes, rotten meat and half dead mules during the Civil War?

War profiteering isn’t new, nor is the military-industrial complex new, nor unique to America. Anyone been through a densely populated forest in England lately? They’ve been gone since the arms race that ended with the Armada.

What is new is there is a public awareness of this profiteering coupled with the democratic process and a press that may pay attention to the hue and cry of the public.

If I had time to dig through some books, I could cite examples of ‘contractors’ from other times too.

I will agree that the extent to which they are being used is new, and I would love to compare the pay difference between modern contracted mercenaries and modern foot soldiers to those in past times. Can you tell I teach history and math?

PS Vote noonan!

Ditto, John Casper.
Ask some guy that has been there about how often their laundry is stolen, how inefficient services are in Iraq. I haven’t heard one returning soldier or Marine say anything good.

Eli’s not only a rockstar, he’s a punstar of sorts too. :)

Another movie I’m interested in checking out- http://www.thewartapes.com/

Both the Bush and Walker family fortunes were built on war profiteering.

George Walker Bush — a born and inbred merchant of death . . .

Thanks, Steve - you’re one cool cat.

immanentize @ 6:10 pm (#31) - But only some of them, Cujo.

I’m not defending that fact, but there are many reasons. One is that there isn’t always enough evidence to figure out what happened. In other cases, as with Abu Graib, the direct guilt only went so far, apparently. While the officers in charge were responsible for the environment, it’s awfully difficult to prosecute someone for setting up an environment that encourages lawlessness. How many firearms manufacturers or TV executives have been prosecuted for such a thing? How about politicians who say that folks who do such and such are traitors or giving comfort to the enemy? How about Ku Klux Klansmen who have encouraged violence through their writings but haven’t engaged in it themselves?

Cujo

Have read lots of articles. Rumsfeld is the yahoo behind the “streamlining” read outsourcing of the military. He was the one who told the generals we don’t need all those soldiers etc.

I am sure he made sure his and Cheney’s friends got all the contracts from the outsourcing. The better to have a golden wingnut welfare consultant job when you retire from the cabinet/vice presidency. Oh and the chimperor too.

Sure its OT.

Von Clauswitz was right in one sense - both war and politics are methods of conflict resolution.

War is a form of conflict, not of conflict resolution: That’s the point. Still trying to decide if you are being serious with the above statement.

MsAnnaNOLA @ 6:28 pm (#47) - Have read lots of articles.

I’ve lived those articles, and you can pretty well take this trend back to WWII. There was a big increase in this sort of thing during the Reagan years, as the R & D part of the military establishment was expanded again. Rumsfeld has continued that trend, and has accelerated it somewhat.

How about Ku Klux Klansmen who have encouraged violence through their writings but haven’t engaged in it themselves?

This, coincidentally, is something I know something about. Many Klansmen have been prosecuted under conspiracy and RICO typr charges. They also have been sued into oblivion on sim,ilar joint action theories. Similarly, gun manufacture suits are percolating and will end up getting to a lot of unscrupulous plutocrats who dump cheap guns in minority communities. The point is that the tools are there to pursue people higher up, particularly in the military, but this administration does not believe in the responsibility of command. Twenty years from now I am confident there will be some serious accounting. If not internally in this nation, then externally. So predicts Imm.

ck #39

Good for Mark Shields. I’ve thought he’s been too quiet for too long. Nice to hear he’s standing up to the Brooks puffery.

As long as I’m off topic, I noticed that gas spike in my area this week, so I took a look at them. Gas is up nationwide. Crude prices dipped today but remain above $70 a barrel.

Averages for regular gasoline 7/7/06 in states plus DC

$3.00+ 14 states
$2.90+ 16 states
$2.80+ 18 states
$2.70+ 3 states

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp

Nymex Crude Future $73.86 change -.23
Dated Brent Spot $72.20 change -1.66
WTI Cushing Spot $74.09 change -1.05

http://www.bloomberg.com/marke.....rices.html

In other economic news, the July monthly report from the CBO indicates that the on line deficit may drop below $300 billion for FY 2006. Corporate taxes were up and it was surmised that richer Americans having gotten substantially wealthier had paid more in taxes as well. The offline deficit which includes money borrowed mainly from Social Security would increase this total to about $480 billion. The CBO says they have taken into account projected supplementals but they don’t break down their numbers so it is unclear if this includes the most recent add-ons. If not, this would push the deficit into the $570 billion range. Like so many things, we will not know the whole story until this fiscal year is safely behind us.

The point is that the tools are there to pursue people higher up, particularly in the military, but this administration does not believe in the responsibility of command.

Even if there isn’t enough evidence to bring criminal charges, I don’t think evidence is needed to demote or even discharge someone for crimes that happened on their watch. IIRC, Karpinski pretty much bore the full brunt of it, but Ricardo Sanchez and Geoff Miller got off scott-free.

Because, of course, they didn’t screw up - they were doing exactly what the administration wanted.

WES (”what Eli says”)

Wow, I’ve got my own acronym now! This rock star thing is awesome!

newtonusr 6:39 p.m.

How did you do that?

Eli’s Song

“I’ve been around the world
Had my pick of any girl
You’d think I’d be happy
But I’m not
Ev’rybody knows my name
But it’s just a crazy game
Oh it’s lonely at the top

Listen to the band they’re playing just for me
Listen to the people paying just for me
All the applause all the parades
And all the money I have made
Oh it’s lonely at the top

Listen all you fools out there
Go on and love me I don’t care
Oh it’s lonely at the top
Oh, it’s lonely at the top”

Oh dear. Still, I suppose it’s better than the Three Dog Night alternative…

oh, dear, WWED?, ‘What would Eli do?’.

oh, dear, WWED?, ‘What would Eli do?’.

Back slowly out of the room, eyes darting around nervously.

I saw The War Tapes at YearlyKos with one of the soldiers in the audience and answering questions afterward. (There was also a panel discussion earlier in the day with him, Paul Reickoff, Abby P. and another soldier whose name I have not retained) I can’t recommend it highly enough; it is a film made by soldiers in their environment in Iraq and was described by them as the only film they’ve seen that truly represents the way things really are. They are very interested in help with promoting it since it’s produced independently, so if you know of a theater where they would be interested in showing it, you can let them know directly.

just teasing eli!

just teasing eli!

It’s been a strange, strange day, and not just here.

Noonan @ 6:19 pm (#41) - Daddy Warbucks?
Spanish-American War profiteers?

Were their employees on the front lines? I don’t dispute that war profiteering is an old practice. What’s new is how much contracting people are becoming an indispensable part of the military.

would love to compare the pay difference between modern contracted mercenaries and modern foot soldiers to those in past times.

I suspect that a true comparison wouldn’t show a whole lot of difference. The folks who are doing most of the work aren’t very much different from the rest of us. It will probably be a function of how much of a nation’s population is involved in a war. The smaller the proportion, the greater the difference is likely to be.

-ck- (love the new hairdo), yeah but did you catch whineyass David Brooks saying that privately, most democrats he talks to despise the netroots because they’re so vicious? Bbbbwwwwaaaahahaaaaa.

Cannot WAIT to see this new film, Mr. Greenwald.

yeah but did you catch whineyass David Brooks saying that privately, most democrats he talks to despise the netroots because they’re so vicious?

I can imagine which Democrats David Brooks talks to. Or rather, which Democrats are willing to talk to David Brooks.

meta –

yep — and that may be the best part.

if the Beltway Dems are scared shitless of getting in the netroots crosshairs, that means we are getting through . . .

like the Marines say — we can be your best friend or your worst enemy . . . your choice.

EPU’d by evening activities…

This is what I would like to post over at Roger Simon’s blog…….

“To more specifically defend Lieberman, in the great majority of rape cases the victim remains physically whole and fully ambulatory so it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they can seek alternate treatment after the initial treatment and evidence collection.”
You (in the general sense of no one poster in particular) must have been incredibly lucky in life, lead an isolated life, or a male. A rape victim, while maybe in one piece physically, is not necessarily intact mentally. If they were taken to a Catholic hospital and weren’t told of the optional pharmacutical treatment, or was not aware that it existed, will most likely not be in any condition to ask for the treament or be transfered to a hospital that will. You’re treating this as though the woman has a broken toe and there’s no big deal in treatment. Get a clue.

To assume that Catholic hospitals are all privately funded institutions is incorrect. While there are some that do not receive money from the Feds or State, they are the minority. In some cases they are the only hosptial in the county and receive public moneies for services. If the institution were wholely private, then they can do as they please, as long as ti’s within the law.

The beef many have with Lieberman is the way he has presented and stated himself with such utter casualness medical treatment for rape victims and women’s health in general. His statements indicate that he believes that there’s a public hospital every 5 miles, or so, throughout the country and that the women are going in for a routine exam.

Then there’s your attitude towards people that don’t think the way you do… Just because we’re not members of the right wing segment of the Republican party does not mean that we are of the shallow end of the gene pool. I see many of the post at FDL being vents to others that are of similar mind. But, know that there are registered Republicans that post on that blog. They are people fed up with the extremes of their party hijacking it. Yes, there are extremists within both parties. But, guess what, that doesn’t mean one side is correct and the other not. The entire middle spectrum of politics have been pushed into a hole and labeled as ‘enemies’ by both extemist ends.

Probably also worth pointing out that we’re vicious for a reason: We’re pissed off. Which is also for a reason.

“To more specifically defend Lieberman, in the great majority of rape cases the victim remains physically whole and fully ambulatory so it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they can seek alternate treatment after the initial treatment and evidence collection.”

Holy jumping Christ. I assume “Suck it up and deal” is considered Compassionate Conservatism?

Jeff Greenfield on Imus mentioned the net roots were wealthy too.

For a more dramatic take on war profiteering, check out Arthur Miller’s play; “All of My Sons”

I’m way pissed off. Fully.

Eli & meta –

What Brooksie the bobblehead lied about is the constant lie — we are not the extreme left wing, and Lieberbaby is not the pragmatic middle.

We are pissed off at Democrats who appease rather than fight; we are especially pissed off at Democrats who stab other Democrats in the back, while playing kissy face with Bush.

Someone should post the transcript from Mark Shields — he said that if Joe Lieberman had shown that kind of anger against Dick Cheney that he showed against Ned Lamont, Joe would be in the sixth year of his vice Presidency.

Go Get ‘Em, Mark Shields!!!

Eli 7:01 pm — actually, we’re NOT vicious.

We’re just plain pissed off and righteously so, which absolutely doesn’t compute in the minds of folks like that right-wing mouthpiece Brooks.

Uppity. You know what I mean by that. They’d use that word if old connotations weren’t attached to it.

John Casper, can I borrow some bucks?

immanentize @ 6:37 pm (#52) - One of the reasons for the lawsuits was what seemed to people at the time to be the complete lack of accountability for many KKK people via criminal justice. Some folks were undoubtedly prosecuted under RICO statutes, but even there you have a large burden of proof and long times between the crime and the trial. In the military, most tours last three years or less, then people are moved on to new units. Many only stay in the military a few years. Institutional memories are short in that environment.

Even without those complications, there’s the problem that when you’re trying to prosecute superiors, you often have to have subordinates provide evidence. You’re working against the “natural order of things”.

I don’t like that no one above rank of specialist has been convicted so far (except for that Army doctor). Unfortunately, it’s difficult under the best of circumstances, and in this case the real criminals are the ones running things.

My argument was with the idea that soldiers aren’t required to follow the rules of war. They are. That they aren’t always prosecuted as they should be is not proof of that.

to: and your little dog:

Many of us will understand your grief about the loss of a dog. Believe me, this is huge. I’ve been there, it’s like losing a member of your family.

Please write and tell us how you are.
————-egr

The other thing that Mark said is that one of the biggest fuck-ups Joe committed in the debate is to bash democrats for dissing Bush.
Can I get a witness? Really really arrogant and unbelieveably stupid.

Hey all — just wanted to pop in for a moment and say that tomorrow’s Pull Up a Chair thread will be some gardening and vegetable and fruit recipes. (Thought the vegetarians in the group might like a whole Saturday of recipes and chatting that they could use. And, frankly, I could use some more veggie recipes myself…) Can everyone pass it around to the late night crowd for me, if I’m already in bed by then? Thanks!

Eli dear — Your link at 20 scared the cat that was on my lap. Startled cats launch and leave bloody trails in their wake. Ouch ouch ouch. A little warning next time, please? Thanks! And now back to catching up with the rest of the comments, starting with 21 and proceeding et seq. Y’all are way too interesting to skip any.

meta, I thought I was the only exception.

I feel confident that the NSA leaked all our financials to Jeff, because they know they can trust him to protect a source.

I followed a link on a previous thread to Just OneMinute, Maguire’s blog where we were discussed intently. We are “creepy” did you know that? We are rabid and mean and dismissive. I find him posting at glenn’s sometimes, as well. A number of months ago, I remember someone describing him as a moderate, but I don’t see it, not in his blog and particularly not in the comments. the famous clarice is a frequent flyer there as is “sue” who has/had infested the threads over at Larry Johnson’s (I think she was banned, finally).

I just thought it was interesting to note that Maguire used to be described as a moderate, but he’s clearly looking for an invite to PeeWee media.

It’s 10, have to sleep and nurse tomorrow. My blessings to you all, have a great weekend. I’m going to take a vaca from trying to catch up and just jump into the fray when I find some time.

xx

zen

Oh, and having met Robert Greenwald in person and talked to him about this film — if it is half as good as his entusiasm for this project, and his disgust at the level of corruption they have uncovered in working on this film, it is going to be absolutely amazing. Cannot wait to see this trailer!

I’m way pissed off. Fully.

You are not alone. Just take a walking list and ask for signatures for petitions and you will get an earful from many people. They are pissed.

chs -sleep dreams

Rayne @78:

Actually, some of us *are* pretty damn vicious, but usually not unfairly so.

The thing is, it’s human nature to start yelling and swearing when you’re continuously ignored, dismissed, and put down. It’s frustration.

Or, if you’re a Republican, you do it to hide the fact that you’ve got nothin’. It’s obfuscation.

Sorry, BarbaraB - even had I thought about that, I don’t think I would have pegged Ren & Stimpy as particularly cat-scaring…

A number of months ago, I remember someone describing him as a moderate, but I don’t see it, not in his blog and particularly not in the comments.

Ann Althouse claims to be nonpartisan. Maybe I should start doing the same.

meta @ 6:57 pm (#64) -

yeah but did you catch whineyass David Brooks saying that privately, most democrats he talks to despise the netroots because they’re so vicious? Bbbbwwwwaaaahahaaaaa.

Honestly, once you get behind on comments, it’s like you’ll never catch up - so apologies for all the stuff that goes back a couple posts…*g*

egregious - if you’re still here, I’m feelin’ your pain. My older daughter is 23, with a wedding in the not-too-distant future, and I shudder to think about the possibility of her moving away. God, these transitions are so much harder than we think they will be. The consolation is that the strength of the bond that makes it so hard to see her go, is the same bond that will keep you both close. No one probably understands, though, the need to draw your children close quite like the person from whose body they came; it’s a visceral thing that’s hard to explain, but us moms know. Sending hugs and good thoughts your way.

All the cat and dog stories…gets me every time. If you want to laugh out loud and cry like a baby, read “Marley and Me;” about a wild and crazy yellow lab (we have a yellow - and a black lab - sweetest dogs going - and neither are crazy, thank goodness).

What thrills me about the Lamont race is the national stage on which it is playing out: “Hello, America - this is a real Democrat. He’s not loony, he’s not crazed - he’s smart and he’s passionate and he’s the face of so many good things to come!”

The war profiteering makes me feel ill, mainly because there’s a sick symbiotic relationship going on, and too much of our economy is being tied up in the M/I complex.

Geez, this took me too long to type - probably already dozens of comments and a post behind - again!

Oh, and ps re: Roger Simon’s tender ears

My sweet Southern Belle mother who was a weekly churchgoer, Girl Scout Leader and nursery school teacher, totally “the sweetest little thing” as my grandmother, her Mother-in-law called her, used to have a string of things she said when she felt the need. All purpose, you might say.

“Godda*n it to hell, S*it, Piss and Corruption!!!” This may be a literary reference, she was often quoting authors. Sadly, she died when I was eleven at 38, so I can’t ask. But I use this often and find it very useful.

‘night

Shamelessly shilling again for my homestate Senator Byron Dorgan’s book, reviewed by SusanG over at DailyKos. Of course I hope Jane and Christy will consider inviting Byron to participate in an FDL Sunday book salon sometime soon. Once you get to know him as well as we in ND do, you’ll understand why he’s beloved blue in a red state.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/7/161930/8532

Take This Job and Ship It
How Corporate Greed and Brain-Dead Politics Are Selling Out America
By Senator Byron L. Dorgan
Thomas Dunne Books/St. Martin’s Press

little dog…It’s so strange, in the space of five recent years I lost all of my birth family except my mother who has advanced Alzheimers. Mr. LittleDog lost both his parents and our home of 27 years burned down.

OMG. Please tell us more about your loved ones. You have had a heavy burden to bear. Please share with us.

“Shit, piss, and corruption” seems like a very fitting epithet for these times, zennurse (and one that will almost certainly put me in moderation timeout).

I would respectfully suggest to the people of Connecticut, especially the Democrats, that Ned Lamont would represent them in the U.S. Senate better than Joe Lieberman, and it’s time for a change.

Now, wasn’t that vicious? Indeed, venomous.

Ann Althouse claims to be nonpartisan. Maybe I should start doing the same.

Maybe we all should. That would increase our street cred, right?

Man, just thinking about that “vicious” label makes me even angrier.

I became a Democratic activist to support a guy running for office based on his ability to balance a budget for 11 years straight while managing to provide healthcare for every child and senior in his state at the same time. Pragmatic and practical, yes?

Hardly the image of the far left here, a mom with two kids, a mortgage, a struggling small business and a spouse in management. We’re middle-to-upper-middle America, depending on the price of oil this week and the condition of the auto industry this month; our status could change next month or with the next tank of gas.

But I am absolutely FURIOUS over the gross negligence, abuse, utter incompetence of this administration — and I could see it coming in 2000, could smell the bullsh*t.

Every Dem I knew then was worried about it. And now that I’m an activist with a little more cred and a little broader reach, I still haven’t met a Dem who has been anything but pissed off and angry about this adminstration for the same reasons. I’ve met Republicans who are just as angry, although for a narrower range of reasons.

Which tells me that Brooks is flat out lying or completely out of touch with reality. I lean towards the latter opinion since it would explain his recent babble about “rabid, venomous lambs of the left”. Might even explain why his editor didn’t take him to task.

If you were Brooks’ editor, would you want to press your objections with a someone who is not a member of this reality, someone who may have hallucinated fanged lambs that foamed at the mouth?

On the other hand, maybe Brooks was talking with Zell Miller…

That David Brooks could sit on a PBS TV program and say something meaningless every week is just beyond me. He’s so into the “I hang out with important people” gossip gig that I just want to laugh at him. He is so in bed with those people, it’s disgusting. So why do I watch it? I really don’t know!

Absolutely, Cujo. Anyone who claims to be without partisan blinders *must* be speaking the unvarnished truth.

(There should be some kind of certification process before you can claim to be nonpartisan, liberal/Dem, or conservative/Repub…)

The first official meeting of the Nonpartisan Venomous Lambs of the Left is hereby convened.

There are a lot of reasons to condemn the Catholic church. But there are, perhaps, reasons for thinking they have some history of doing good too. I try to extract the good from all religions, and discard the not so good. Sometimes this is a difficult challenge, but I try.

meta @ 7:24 pm (#97) - It’s especially ironic considering that Mark Shields, a NY correspondent, also, was able to get it pretty much right in this case. Of course, part of it is understanding the political environment, which Shields does better anyway, but part of it was clearly just a willingness to get out and talk to people.

I’m thinking of cutting out all the cussing. Because, you know, they’d totally take us seriously and listen to everything we had to say if we did.

I’m thinking of cutting out all the cussing. Because, you know, they’d totally take us seriously and listen to everything we had to say if we did.

I just cut back on the cussing on mine ‘cuz my dad reads it…

Lent’s over, and Advent’s not for a while yet.

But I admire your efforts at self-control.

I’m even proud of myself. I was able to keep a straight face through this entire part of the thread. Seriously.

Ah fuck that.

BTW, Mary has a GREAT diary on Women & GOTV that’s going to run tomorrow at 1:30 pm PDT/4:30 pm EDT, right after Howie Klein’s Blue America.

I hope everyone shows up, cusses a lot and makes a wingnut faint.

The next thing after dismissing everything because of a few “bad” words, is the “do you have PMS?” question that, I have to tell you, really frosts my cupcakes…

Oklahoma kiddo @ 7:28 pm (#100) - My observation is that religions are like many endeavors, what you get out of them depends in large part on what you bring to them. Christianity and the other major religions have a rich history of philosophy, you can draw whatever lessons you want from them. If you want to hate people, you’ll find a way. If you want to be an ignorant moron, there’s justification. If you want to do good, or make the world a better place, you can find a way to do that, too.

So, on the grand question of whether religion does more harm than good, my considered answer is: “Beats me”.

Mary’s doing a post! Yay!!!

(BTW, my “fuck that” was meant for my own resolution, not anyone’s intervening comments…okay you knew that but just in case…)

Anne 106 — yeah I really like it when people tell me to “calm down.” That one always goes over well.

In keeping with the content of the post, the Dorgan Amendment 4292 June 20, 2006 to set up a special committee of the Senate to investigate the awarding and carrying out of contracts to conduct activities in Afghanistan and Iraq and to fight the war on terrorism was voted down 44-52 with 4 not voting including the Independent Jeffords and the recovering Jay Rockefeller. 43 Democrats plus Chafee (and yes, even holy Joe) voted for the establishment of such a committee. All the no votes were Republican. Go figure.

Jane @ 102
Sorry - I need my fix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....rch=george carlin

Jane…102

If you are serious. Then I would gently say good idea. We do not need to be coarse to prove our point. I think.

Jane thanks for the laugh (out loud)!

I keep waiting for the driving-skills troll. I can see the 405 from the second floor of my house. Right now, only doing 90 might get you run over.

That’s great news that Mary is doing a post. I love her long comments. I will be fucking sure not to miss it.

Jane Hamsher @ 7:32 pm (#102) - I agree. After all, look how seriously they take Glenn Greenwald. All those interviews about his book, all the breathless coverage in the literature sections of Sunday newspapers …

Have you ever heard me talk like that?