
Did you know that Joe Klein of Newsweek Time magazine is not an employee of the Republican National Committee or a registered Republican voter? It’s true! And yet, just days ago, at this very site, I referred to Joe Klein and Cokie Roberts as "two Republican reporters." Try to believe I said it!
On Wednesday, the Daily Howler’s Bob Somerby reviewed my July 2 Talking Head Review, and he kicked me to the curb like an unsolicited manuscript concerning the 2000 election. Bob says he’s caught me red-handed, pulling the wool over your eyes.
Let me introduce my good friend Bob to the literary device known as comic hyperbole. Here’s how it works.
We take a political columnist who is well-known for fact-free and unsubtle diatribes against Democratic pols and the Democratic Party. One who says things such as the following:
Such sobriety seems beyond the reach of most Democrats. They make fools of themselves even when they speak the truth.
And this:
He [Peter Beinart] is not afflicted by the excesses, delusions, indulgences or grandiosity of the current leaders of the Democratic Party.
…the "progressive" reluctance to acknowledge the possibility of the judicious use of American power, even when the world supports it (as the United Nations did during the first gulf war), has crippled the Democratic Party’s credibility on matters of national security in perpetuity.
And even this:
[Al Gore] is a smug, stubborn, and aloof human being. He will clutter the race in 2004, suck money from other candidates, force some interesting possibilities from the field, run another awkward, tired faux-populist campaign and, if nominated, he will lose, more decisively this time, to George W. Bush.
And, based upon the man’s own words (which are well-known to the supposedly gullible readers of this site), we label Klein a Republican. Amusing, no?
Somerby says: It’s bad to characterize Klein as a Republican because he sometimes says things critical of the Republican Party in general or specific Republicans in particular.
I say: When you become a serial purveyor of fraudlent talking points concerning Democrats which are indistingiushable from Karl Rove and Ken Mehlman’s Greatest Fundraising Speeches, you deserve ridicule. And that includes the insult you earn from the content of your running commentary: Republican.
Oh, sure, I could have accused JoeK of having "Millionaire Pundit Values" or of "typing up scripts." I could have called him a "fake," or a "celebrity." Indeed, I could point out that JoeK "want[s] to trash major Democrats only," and then express the most profound bewilderment as to Joe’s possible motive for doing so.
Instead, I called him a Republican. I did it my way.
The other charge of misinformation on the Somerby bill of particulars involves Wall Street Journal national politics editor John Harwood. Somerby assures us — in italics – that John "isn’t a ‘rightwinger,’" as I asserted. He fails, however, to make a meticulous case for that proposition, so we’ll just have to take his word for it.
Or we could consider one of Harwood’s own recent statements, such as this one from February in which he identifies his favorite blogs:
My favorite and most frequent destination is realclearpolitics.com, which has a great collection of current polling data and links to smart commentators. I like Marshall Wittmann’s blog, bullmoose.blogger.blogspot.com. I tend to visit blogs not at a set time but rather because I’ve heard of something especially there or I want to sample activist reaction to a specific political development. Those include redstate, instapundit, huffingtonpost and dailykos. (Emphasis added.)
Harwood identifies two personal favorites, Real Clear Politics and The Bull Moose Blog.
Real Clear Politics links to a wide variety of sites and oped pieces, but claims very few commentators as its own. Those would include John Stossel, John Leo, Thomas Sowell, Michael Barone, Larry Kudlow, Jed Babbin, V.D. Hanson…. Beginning to notice a pattern?
Need more clear proof as to RCP’s real politics? Ask Real Clear Politics’ own readers, if you can get them to stop prattling on about the "sick" and "twisted" supporters of reproductive rights, the insanity of marriage equality, and those "parasit[ic]" victims of Hurricane Katrina. What’s not for a wingnut to love?
And then there’s The Moose. What comes to mind when you think of The Hudson Institute, The Heritage Foundation, The Christian Coalition and an "unofficial DLC blog" championing the candidacy of John McCain? What exactly does John Harwood like so much about the Bull Moose Blog — the daily single post portraying liberals as traitors, appeasers, nuts and Jew-haters — or — the pretty pictures of Teddy Roosevelt and a red and blue moose at the top?
I don’t see how I ever got the idea that Harwood is a right-winger. Many folks endorse as their "favorites" those political websites which espouse views directly opposite to their own. No, Harwood isn’t a right-winger; he’s a certified wingnut.
As for Somerby’s assertion that "you were told [by me] that it was too odious to discuss what was said on this program [meaning This Week] because it was all so Republican-scripted," it just ain’t true. What I did tell you was that it was a beautiful day, one too nice to spend too much time typing up G.O.P. talking points. And, yes, in referring to "the panels," I was referring to not only This Week, but also Meet the Press and Fox News Sunday, which featured the talking points of long-standing G.O.P. partisans Bill Bennett, Bill Safire and Bill Kristol (not to mention rightwingers Brit Hume and John Harwood). Including Fred Thompson on This Week, that’s four indisputably affiliated and employed Republicans to zero Dems. Sorry, Bob, but I prefer self-pity to self-delusion.
Tomorrow: I emit low, mordant chuckles.
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NED!
Can’t wait for your low, mordant chuckle.
Bob doesn’t have much of a sense of humor, does he? Could he be a Republican, too?
You go, Roger Ailes The Good. Bob Somerby is a relic; he peformed a usual function about three years ago (in blog terms, that’s 21 years ago, you know) when he and the much missed Horse at Media Whores Online were pretty much the only game in town, but his act is SOOOOOOOO tired. I stopped reading his crap because I got bored to tears with being poked with a sharp stick about his obsessions in almost every post. “Gore 2000! Rubes! I’ll tell you what they’re spinning even though you can figure it out for yourself in 10 seconds!” etc.
And great snark about *shudder* the low mordant chuckles *shudder*
Chill it radlib. I don’t think you’ve ever read Somerby’s site. Roger Ailes makes a great number of excellent points and his parody is hilarious. But Somerby does have a sense of humor and he isn’t a ‘Republican’ in the sense you seeem to be conveying.
If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck….you can bet the farm, its a duck!
Bob suffers from Diogenes Syndrome
he’s been lifting that lamp, looking for an honest pundit for so long, that Bob has temporarily left the planet
cheer up dude, you got home planet advantage on this fight
interesting, at least for me, that josh has bullmoose down as an approved site. i know hes been there for years.
but recently ive noticed that josh has been leaning against joe l. — that should mean something, right?
bullmoose does tend towards dropping the hammer rather quickly.
josh should reconsider the approval of his site, maybe…
Joe Klein makes me wince everytime he opens his big fat maw and spews forth whatever his latest “wisdom” is. I usually treat his missives the same way I treat Horrorwitz’s witless scribblings, with bewilderment and deep sympathy for his family. If writing talent was measured in water carried in the desert, Klein’s would fit inside a thimble.
Funny post, but I guess I don’t read the Howler enough to get all the parody points. But as for Klein, please. If you think “Democrat” means what most democrats think on most issues, then Klein ain’t one. Klein has said so himself is no uncertain terms, in English, to audiences and on TV and stuff. He sees himself has beeing abandoned by the Dem party that has supposedly charged senselessly to the left, and the Democrats are now so retro socialist industrial age Luddites as to support such dingbat ideas as (get this, yuk yuk) social security. What more do you need? Nice that Klein has started being more objective, balanced and even slightly fact based in the last two weeks or so. Congrats to Klein for some progress. May he continue his journey towards including reasons based on logic and facts in his work. Great move, and I saw that sincerely. But that won’t make him a representative Democrat. What is so hard about that? They guy says he ain’t a representative Demcrat, it is consistent with what he writes and says, so… he aint a representative moderate conservative or anything leftward Democrat. Might be registered that way, but so what? Am I missing something here?
katymine #5 said what I was trying to say in #9 in one tenth the space.
….some trickery going on in the last thread…like a mug of DeLay coming up…anyone know where newtonusr, neuro and suzanne are? guess I’ll just trudge up the hill…
From what I have read of the Howler, I think it sometimes succumbs to rampaging kneejerk balance-itis. Usually when I’ve read him dinging liberals or Dems, he makes good points. Sometimes it looks like he’s doing it because the recent score seems too lopsided and he needs to even it up and ring up some superficial balance cred. Once in awhile he gets so off target he even approaches Kaus territory. This might be one of those whiles.
Using Somerby’s, we shouldn’t call Leaverman a Dem because he sometimes critical of the Dem Party in general or specific Dems in particular
make that Using Somerby’s reasoning…
SPaws
The DeLay pic f’ed up the thread. Apologies to darkblack if I’m wrong.
Suzanne #13: yes, absolutely. And say you got a relative who used to vote Democratic but, for the last 10 years, has been repeatedly spouting fantastical, incoherent, fact and logic fee (even perhps somehwat impressionistic, perhaps a wee heated, possibly tendentious and slanted, and not so subliminally contemptuous) rants about looney leftwing Democrats who hate America and all it does in the world. There’s a Democrat too -they are so easy to spot. Probably ought to write a Democratic viewpoint column in the local paper. For balance. Yep, I agree 100%. you are correct. (preceding is snark)
But #13 saying that if Klein is a good representative Dem, the Lieberman is too, well, that is better and shorter and more to the point snark.
newtonusr: how does that happen? seemed like a cruel joke to get us off the thread…
Somerby’s stuff is generally terrific. However, I do think that he gets a little pompous at times, and indulges in the wilfil mischaracterisation that he specialises in skewering when the MSM does it. At this point, I’ll repeat that the vast majority of his material, which I read regularly is excellent.
Let’s try not to fight among ourselves too much.
spider, it looks like darkblack didn’t close out his hyperlink. a more common occurance is the unclosed out italics.
Bob Somerby, while useful, has a shtick that is getting tiring. He also occasionally goes off with cranky opinions about Democrats for slight offences.
I agree with your opinions about the general case of the media characters on the shows. That said, Bob did make a valid point that the Bush administration came in for some major drubbing from these generally pro-Bush pundits, information which was lacking in your report.
Deadly Shoe — it was a joke. I used to read Somerby until his rants got too boring. But he wouldn’t get the joke, either.
spiderpaws
I’m no html expert, but the code looked funky-I was able to see the source-link left open.
Yeah, just when the Ailes post came up; interesting collection up top…
Hmmm… My previous has vanished into the ether.
Somerby is an excellent analyst. However, I do agree that sometimes he can be a bit pompous and indulge in the same mischaracterising that he criticises the MSM for.
Still, I enjoy reading his stuff. Let’s not fight among ourselves too much.
…well I hope it wasn’t me…OT here but back to the light pollution issue…what about the road that goes east from half moon bay – 92 is it? It’s either stars or jobs in this state…
Wow the super late night thread
Thanks for coming by, Roger. We had a Somerby shill in here on Wednesday who kept insisting that Jane and/or Christy drop everything they were doing in order to justify your piece or refute Somerby’s charges. Various members of the community (including the goddesses themselves) told the shill to take a hike, which eventually he, she or it did. Tiresome while it lasted, though. I don’t read Somerby and have no sense of where he’s coming from, but if he doen’t get snark, he needs a humor transplant. Maybe there’s a waiting list somewhere he can get on. And with that, it’s bedtime. G’night, y’all.
spiderpaws @ 24
wasn’t you.
92 is how I get over the hill to HMB. HWY 1 suffered a major slide – guess where – Devils Slide. Been closed for months, so north of Montara, you’re screwed. Everybody who needs to get to Pacifica, Daly City, San Francisco has to trudge down 1 to 92 east to 280 north. It’s a mess.
Oh, yeah – light pollution-
HMB is good, but lots of spray – not good for scope or bino’s. Peninsula is so overdeveloped that you gotta go a ways to escape the pollution.
Thanks, newtonusr.
Previous thread should be functional again…My apologies.
Worth it. A little late night adventure. Love the pic.
thinking about #13: Lieberman and Klein do have some other things in common, which are that they make no sense and what they say does not connect well with reality. I read Lieberman’s letter explaining his decisions regarding running. He says he (unlike other people) look to the future. Yeah, right, that’s a hoot. Like three more years is Iraq with not plan or policy is looking to the future (three more years, in order too… with the intention of… with the plan and or goal being…. exactly what, Joe? Pass off the whole mess to the next chump in office, maybe?). And then I like his ‘permanent bases in Iraq’ lines. Like, its just a natural thing that we very knowing sophisticated CW power types would understand. Perfectly natural to have buncha mega bases in Iraq, which is such an obvious ally just they way, say Britain or South Korea are. I mean what’s the deal? (um… like similar bases were such a natural so-what no big deal thingee in Saudi Arabia, right?). It’s like they figure they can just say stuff and no one will bother to think for even a second.
But then, we are unqualified rubes who can’t think at the rarified level of Bush and Klein and Lieberman and Cheney, so I guess that is the assumption he is going on. The future, what a concept in that guy’s hands, it’s just so meaningful for us all.
Funny how the idea of a gulag of huge airbases in Iraq for staging, and from which poor troops will sally forth to shoot and get shot at is mentioned now and its no big deal. How did that happen? And I don’t think I am being disprespectful to the troops by calling it a gulag. How will it feel to be a serviceman who sits in those things five years from now, going out dangerous patrols periodically, and for what? I guess there have been so many BushCo rationales and plans of the minutes, that no one even pretends to bother with discussion of why and how. The powers that be have let be known to their mouthpieces (for example, Lieberman) that, yep, permanent bases. The reaction: “Yeah, whatever.”
I threw a cyberdart at Somerby’s archives to see what “iterations of familiar tales” the not-so-famous friend of Al would lay bare on any given day. I swear I closed my eyes and clicked and…
Amazing, isnt it? No, Gore never said he invented the Internet; that was a treasured press corps invention. But the clowning clowns of your Washington press corps never abandon their clowning clownistry. They declared their war, and its war without end. We know–you feel you should like Clarence Page. Those feelings are just what they hope for.
Bob Somerby
alright… who woke the old man up…
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz….
back to sleep bob…
On my second dart toss, I nailed the bullseye.
The very first line from his Dec 9, 2004 entry:
We couldnt restrain our mordant chuckles when we read the Times front page this morning.
#33: I wanta a tap of you doing that, you gotta be cheating. You blindfolded? I want a video of you picking those.
Somerby opened my eyes during the 2000 election to the unbelievably biased reporting of the MSM. For that I will always be grateful. But I do think that he is too shrill at times.
It’s one thing to bash a MSM member where there’s almost no chance of engaging in meaningful dialogue. But bashing bloggers, especially left-wing bloggers, does not seem to me to be the best approach for honest debate. I am biased, but I do believe that progressives (especially in the blogosphere) are the most open-minded people that you will find in the political landscape.
Somerby is truly a sad case. His fury at being overlooked while so many others are treated as Internet Gods has warped his sensibilities no end. Now he’s defending Joe Klein? Can someone take him behind the barn and put him out of his misery? It’s the only humane thing to do…
Mommybrain if you’re here on this thread, regarding your question about subdividing North America, there was a book published in the mid-eighties (if I remember correctly) I went to the basement but couldn’t find it down there, it might still be in storage, that covered just that topic. It showed the regional divisions of the US that could, if aggravated further, lead to a break up of the country. There was the East coast, down to a little south of DC, and up to the Atlantic Provinces, an isolated Quebec, a rustbelt grouping, a biblebelt grouping, a midwest-ish up to Calgary grouping, a Texas-mexico border states region, and so on.
I’m still rummaging around for the book, but well, it may be impossible. I *thought* the title was something like “The Seven nations of north america” but I’m getting nothing from Amazon on that one.
MAN where/how does fdl get such lol graphics perfection every time, day in day out. Even if this blog totally sucked wordwise, it would still deserve an oscar every day for the pix.
Thank you Roger for absolutely nailing my own thoughts on Somerby so well. Some time ago he was essential reading, but that time is long past. I will always appreciate the great things his Howler has done in its lonely heyday, we all have learned from him, I definitely believe his efforts helped inspire and give rise to the kickass hamshers and digbys of today, and he will always have a place of honor in my heart. But I too haven’t read him for years now. The average fdl commenter including myself is way past him.
And ditto the Horse’s unforgettable shining brilliance. Who can forget when Horse and Bob were largely the only thing out there.
And Joke Line – beautiful stunning examples. Unlike Somerby, this total worthless asshole’s utter bullshit needs to be ridiculed to oblivion and ground to dust. Any breathing human who has witnessed six years of bush cheney junta and is still stuck in self-satisfied political Monicaville is simply a retarded and unamerican piece of total weirdass flotsam. Shame on Time magazine, but we knew that.
Good morning!
So, satire equals lying. Got it. What does that make irony?
With ya, Sharkbabe. Bailed on the DH yonks ago.
Klein is to Democrats what Lieberman is to Democrats.
Good morning, tommy and all! Howya doon?
Hiya lotus!
I’m just fine. Hope you are.
Fixin’ to go for my walk.
Sharkie, you still here?
Check out http://www.courant.com.
Seems to me the debate proved one thing: THE issue in CT is NOT Iraq but what a yutz, putz, and schlemiel is Joe Lieberman!
Yes, tommy, I’m fine — fixin’ to be finer when my pot of Irish Breakfast finishes brewing. Enjoy your walk!
Shoot — posted this on the wrong thread.
HCourant’s Who Won? poll currently at 109 responses.
Lieberman 33%
Lamont 46.8%
Draw 6.4%
Didn’t watch 13.8%
scuse moi, i said time magazine, meant to say the fuck time magazine.
(really find “the fuck” so useful/mental health promoting in front of things everywhere, picked up the usage from my total femme girly bandmate whose also sublimely inspiringly artistic use of “motherfucker” made me stop hating and embrace that term also)
hi lotus! woke up freaky early, came here & read roger, went out & ran, gonna lay back down for an hour & get normal maybe for the day. off work which helps :)
Cokie Roberts would have to do a weeping novena and beg our forgiveness on national teevee for me to even consider listening to her drone again.
She took every opportunity to spew lies about Al Gore on ABC and NPR during the 2000 campaign
and was aglow like a new bride the morning after the SCOTUS presented the keys to the world to Fatman and Robin (I’m trying to be nice here).
After the 2000 election I saw Peter Jennings ask her about all the untrue things she said about Gore, she chuckled and said she was just joking.
Am heartened at ned debate polls. We’re all intensely watching/donating/screaming etc, but CT voters are all that counts in the end.
[ Moderator: this might be the real Patton considering the IP address belongs to a military base near Washington, DC — if it’s the NSA : you guys are supposed to listen, not join the chitchat! ]
Is this also ‘comic hyperbole’?
http://www.newhavenindependent…..poodle.php
Was that really you burning up the roads at 90 MPH, breaking our laws, not to mention endangering the citizens of Connecticut?
90 MPH and on a cell phone, and with loose animals? Is this really what we are to expect from Lamont supporters?
Sounds like you are quite reckless, uncaring and uninterested in following the laws the people of Connnecticut pass to insure the safety of our children.
Not to mention how much more gas you wasted doing 90 Mph, instead of the legal speed limit.
If you had any integrity, you would show up at the nearest police station, admit your guilt and pay the appropriate fines and penalties.
The Lamont campaign should be ashamed of your actions and repudiate such lawlessness.
IP: 131.6.84.67
Langley Air Force Base
RTechHandle: MB385-ARIN
RTechName: Bernard, Mark
RTechPhone: +1-757-764-7625
RTechEmail: MARK.BERNARD@langley.af.mil
OrgTechHandle: DJW11-ARIN
OrgTechName: Weaver, Dave J
OrgTechPhone: +1-757-225-2652
OrgTechEmail: DAVE.WEAVER@acc.af.mil
If you had any integrity, you would show up at the nearest police station, admit your guilt and pay the appropriate fines and penalties.
The Lamont campaign should be ashamed of your actions and repudiate such lawlessness.
Is that you, Joe?
I hope we’re not tipping those local polls — that’s a double-edged sword of the Net. Are we misleading our own selves? That said, I hope the Nutmeggers DID see what we saw: a selfish, nasty, politically-moribund ol’ voter-fucker vs.
a non-litigator Mr. Smith on his way to Washington.
Patton, Jane is not part of the Lamont campaign. She’s 100% ours. Go soak your head.
nancy 48, i would sooner be groped on a dance floor by hot handsome war hero dick cheney than have my ears endure a single syllable out of Cokewhore’s decadent worthless clueless insulting mouth. Just sayin…
I agree with the bulk of the commenters, although I still do read DH from time to time. He has an absolutely valid point to make about the 2000 election that our side needs to learn from. That said, it is also true that the sky is blue, but we don’t need a daily howling to remind us of that. One trick ponies are not much fun to ride.
And the Envy doesn’t become Somerby either, that’s for certain.
Here’s WaPo’s transcript of the debate, showing some but far from all of JoHo’s interruptions. As I said last night, no question who looks better in print, but boy does Ned need more’n’better TV-prep . . .
[ Moderator: another comment from that military IP address — the DoD might not approve of the involvement in domestic politics. ]
“”Patton, Jane is not part of the Lamont campaign. She’s 100% ours. Go soak your head. “”
Never said she was…why don’t you respond to the actual charges alleged in the article instead of changing the subject?
Was she breaking the law?
Was she at all concerned about hurting someone?
Was she on a cell phone doing 90 MPH? Maybe that is appropriate in a movie, but no on the roads where we take our kids everyday.
Why does she think she is special and deserves to act like this in Connecticut?
Why no apology for endangering our citizens?
These are not difficult questions.
Ned Lamont links to her site and to this article so apparently he believes she is representative of his supporters.
IP: 131.6.84.67
Langley Air Force Base
RTechHandle: MB385-ARIN
RTechName: Bernard, Mark
RTechPhone: +1-757-764-7625
RTechEmail: MARK.BERNARD@langley.af.mil
OrgTechHandle: DJW11-ARIN
OrgTechName: Weaver, Dave J
OrgTechPhone: +1-757-225-2652
OrgTechEmail: DAVE.WEAVER@acc.af.mil
folks: go back and notice the moderator’s note on comment 51
Mommybrain, if you’re here, I found the book I was thinking of, after great digging and a little cursing. I’ve emerged victorious from the basement. It was, logically, filed with the weaving and Japanese History books (yes, they do go together in my world) The Nine Nations of North America and there’s something like 56 books, more recently published, that reference it.
I use to read the Howler, daily. Haven’t done so in years. Thank you to the good Roger Ailes for reminding me why. BTW, this post is Hillaryous.
Somerby is always worth reading. He’s never tried to be entertaining or fun.
He made some valid points about Klein that Roger didn’t respond to. I don’t especially like Klein, but as Somerby pointed out, you miss a lot if you cherry-pick the stuff you disagree with.
“Shrill”? Somerby is “shrill”? Omigod!
When Somerby slaps someone down, he’s not always right, but he really deserves to be listened to. He’s caught the young folk at TAPPED a number of times, and I think that he was mostly right there. In the present atmosphere, when journalists start getting collegial and civil, it’s always bad.
Also of possible interest to other FireDogs
a book from 1984 Roots to Power: A Manual for Grassroots Organizing
and
Joe Klein is as much a Democrat as I am a ballet dancer.
(please don’t ask me to describe the extent to which I’m *not* a ballet dancer).
Dang, where’d the last “and” come from? *preview is my friend, preview is my friend, preview is my friend*
Bob Somerby is a bitter, humorless zealot. But he’s a bitter, humorless zealot on our side.
Why are all of you deliberately missing Bob’s point and making childlike ad hominems towards him, many of which admit they have never read his site?!?!
Quite frankly, his point –which is correct — is that the piece that FDL uses to presumably summarize the news shows was not only not funny, but also ridiculously innaccurate. The venom of the response on this board proves he was correct.
How do you people want to challenge the Republicans? Fairly and honestly with humor that is actually funny, or by doing what they do making childish non-serious remarks that persuade no one, inform no one and provide fodder for the opposition.
This Ailes piece was horrible, admit it people and saying so does not make me a troll for Summerby. Remember everyone he has been doing media criticism since most of you were still sh*tting yellow. His criticisms are necessary and quite frankly, right on the mark. I have been very disappointed with the new regular commenters on this site it used to be something that was interesting and informative with every post, now I have to wade through all of the pap to get to Christy’s and Jane’s stuff.
Somerby was right people, and the irrationality and failure to address his main commnet — that klien spouted nothing but Democratic talking points the entire show — was right on the money. Hey Roger, get a spine and grow up, Somerby was right, your post s*cked and was not worthy of this site. (I’d actually make a reasoned case for the above, but why since the commenters above didn’t even read Bob’s critique) Funny how the same people who would mercilessly bash a Democrat Seantorial candidate and the party’s last VP nominee would get all indignant about Somerby doing the same thing to some unknown shill who is trolling for relavance off of Jane’s work.
Sincerely,
Chris G.
Good morning all,
Hey Patton, I’ve driven 90 miles per hour on the highway in the following States:
Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Sourth Carolina, California, Oregon, Ohio, Michigan, Washington, Louisiana, CERTAINLY Florida, Georgia, and a few more I am sure I missed
I have driven 90 miles per hour in the following countries.
Germany, France, England, Belgium, Austria, Slovenia, The Czech Republic, Italy, India, Isreal, Egypt and perhaps some others as well….
I apologize.
Now go slap some war damaged kid in the face.
Uh oh, Chris @ 67. Like the shine on an undercover agent’s shoes, you gave yourself away by substituting “Democrat” for “Democratic.” It’s pure winger. We know: Joe’s your kind of guy.
And, no, please don’t come back and say you’ve always been an independent. That dog won’t hunt.
While you’re at it, don’t come back and talk about how I’m refusing to address substantive issues you’ve raised. Straw men don’t fight back.
It’s cool to be who you are without pretending to be someone else. Unfetter your winger wings and let them take flight!
“Somerby is truly a sad case. His fury at being overlooked while so many others are treated as Internet Gods has warped his sensibilities no end. Now he’s defending Joe Klein? Can someone take him behind the barn and put him out of his misery? It’s the only humane thing to do…”
Somerby was NOT defending Klien! He was defending ACCURACY. Go to the HOWLER type Klien in the search engine, and show me even one post were he DEFENDS Klien. No one has been as critical as Somerby on Klien, none of you have!! And now you get your pants all wet when Bob simply tries to get you all to keep your eyes on the ball.
No one on this site has done more to challenge the MSM and poorly performing Dem spokespeople than Somerby, to distance him because he expects more from this site is imprudent.
Oh,..and by the way,…The Horse, spent most of it’s time bashing Ralph Nader,…how did that work out for them?
Sincerely,
Chris G.
By the way, does anyone have any links to good inside-Connecticut comment in the papers about the debate? I am interested in how it plays in-state.
Hey Tommy Yum — it’s now me at 67, guess Chris took your advice :~)
http://www.courant.com has the definitive Establishment Media take on the Debate
tommy yum,
This isn’t about me or you trying to lea leaf a typo. It’s about Somerby being unfairly and childishly criticized.
I’d be more than happy to address any of the points in Ailes post or reply.
(by the way I am new to these posts, as a science teacher and grad student I simply don’t have the time to respond to everything I read)
Yes I am an independant and a nader supporter, but marginalizing people by labeling them so you can ignore them is no way to persuade people to see things your way.
I am not a Joe supporter dude and the fact you would even predict something like that because of a singular post shows an ability to read minds I am just not familiar with.
Oh,…hey tell me what it means that I don’t always use capitals in the right place….does that mean I am for Rick Santorum?
Sincerely
Chris G.
simply enjoying a day off work for once, so please cool your paranoia jets everyone, I’m a Dean/Clark Dem, who like many of you can’t believe where the Dems are going and want to get them back on track)
immanentize
I do have some time today to respond to my post above if you have anything to add, i’d be glad to respond. But again, this is not about me, you or our pets, presumably we are all hear to have some fun, be informed and move the ball forward for the politicians and ideas we support. I will never get personal on this site, i wish others above could do the same.
Chris G
Good morning, imm!
Hmm, seems I stepped to the kitchen just in time to miss some prime troll-rolling. Nice work, *ilson, imm and tommy.
Don’t miss that “Quotes” page in the Courant (not that anyone here would). JoHo continues to lose ground in their poll — now down to 30.6% vs. Ned’s 47.9%.
Sharkbabe 55
Yuck, what a mental picture! Now that you bring it up, cheney looks like the type who thinks grope = sex. C-word Roberts probably thinks that, too.
Heh.. I noticed you did not even “touch” Cokie Roberts. Good move. I almost punched the radio every time she came on NPR.
jayt says
July 7th, 2006 at 4:48 am
“Joe Klein is as much a Democrat as I am a ballet dancer.”
Please read Somerby’s piece. He did not say Klien was a Democrat. He said Ailes calling Klien a Republican — whether to be funny or not — was simply contradicted by what Klien said during the entire show. Somerby even points out all of the Dem talking points Klien delivered.
Sincerely
Chris G.
OT – why no raise in terror alert level? There was an alleged plot uncovered to bomb tunnels in NYC according to CNNtv… Oh wait, we aren’t close enough to the election to raise the terror threat level. my bad.
I read the Courant article about the debate and wow, I really do miss real objective journalism. The article was good, fair I thought, and written straight up. Not leaning in any direction that I could see. Being for Lamont so strongly I was hoping for a little more positive, but that would be my bias.
WHOA — “Didn’t watch” just bounded into a wide lead in the Courant’s poll, at 61.4% (713 responses), reducing Joe to 14 and Ned to 22.5 (163 to 261).
Somerby=irrelevant
NEXT!…….LMAO
Rayne? Where, *ilson?
Rayne is live on last nights post
I actually enjoy Sommerby’s dissections — but then, I’m a nitpicky, detail sort of person. And I do think that his piece on Peter Daou’s review of Lapdogs was excellent, and brought out some points that I had glossed over in my read of it. (And I participated in the discussion!) Although, I must say, knowing John Harwood’s favorite blogs does clear up several nagging questions…
Good morning, CHS!
Morning Tommy — am working on the next article. :) How is everyone this morning? I’m in need of much more coffee…lol (So what else is new? *g*)
Hi there, Christy. Hope that coffee is all you need to feel grrrrreat this ay-em. I gotta scoot to my annual date with the gyno in a bit, hoping not to be deprived of Ned-on-the-radio thereby.
I’m a happy camper. It’s a beautiful morning–a cold front has reduced the bombast–and I got to kick a concern troll to the curb.
Plus plenty of good coffee and company.
G’morn Redd — please throw some Hamster Chow to the poor little critters running in the wheel that powers the servers here — the site seems a tad pokey this morning — perhaps it needs some more coffee too ?
Christy,
As a first time poster to this site, do you countenance post number 69? Is this the way new posters to this site are regularly written to? On many sites personal attacks are deleted and the posters are in some way admonished. Not so here? Here they get a warm Hello?
Sincerely,
Chris G.
Jokeline=Time, yes? We wouldn’t want to insult Newsweek….
Speaking of, Fineman on Imus this morning: Lie-berman in trouble. Looked desperate. Uncharacteristic attack poodle.
Leave it to the real attack poodles, Joey. Props to Kobe and Jane and the clan.
Still wow-sing from the debate [which my husband turned on with absolutely no prompting at all, yay him]. Ned-a-licious.
Ahbedarn, PS — Fineman too, huh? Kewl. Po’ JoHo.
Morning, all…
Just checking in before I make a more serious effort to look like I’m working ;-) .
Somerby is a true hero, no doubt. I e-mailed him once about Maureen Dowd, and he was nice enough to write back. But sometimes (and more and more often, it seemed to me) he just got a bug up his ass about completely irrelevant stuff. He had some kind of hard-on for Joe Wilson that I could never figure out; something along the lines of, “His motives aren’t pure! Democrats should be careful about associating with him!! If you squint real hard, 5% of the things he says aren’t always 100% consistent!!”
Never mind the 95% of the stuff Wilson was DEAD RIGHT about, the same stuff that the Bushistas and 95% of the media were *wrong* about. It was right about then that the whole Somerby shtik got real old, for me.
I love the Daily Howler. I dont think his point was that Joe Klien is a great democrat. I think his point was that the discussion that happened on This Week was important and should not just be dismissed as “more republican blather from a lapdog talking head”. He was saying that there was a rather sharp and substantive critique of the administration that happened on Sunday. That does not mean Klien is a fine and upstanding liberal. It just means that his lapdogishness aside, the content of the discussion on This Week was good and solid and seemed to address the administrations Nazi like intimidation tactics.
Wow, Chris went away after telling teacher. I was just about to administer a dope slap.
Bob doesn’t have much of a sense of humor, does he? Could he be a Republican, too?
Somerby is a brilliant stand up comedian. He act is nothing like The Daily Howler, not political at all. I have seen it twice and I recommend it highly.
Lefty blogosphere owes Somerby a great deal. He kept many of us saine during the impeachment and 2000 election.
I think he got a bee in his bonnet in the last few years, dunno why. I read his site almost every day, not as funny as it used to be, but still well worth reading. Check out his work on education, he is doing to education spin what he did to celebrity press corps.
lotus: That Courant article you gave a link to has a poll. Disturbing numbers. 56% did not watch the debate. How wierd is that. 56% of the people who cared enough to view the story didn’t care enough to watch it. Methinks Lieberman’s got a bank full of computeys.
Ha! I get JoeK(s).
G’ mornin’, Christy and all. Happy Friday.
Now off for more coffee.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..php#008954
Somebody looking for me? ;-)
Morning, gang. Second cuppa’ up now. Using the BIG mug, too.
Not much on news.google.com com yet about the Lieberman debacle. Does that mean the VRWC is trying to ignore or gloss over the mess?
both the wives of Joe and Ned are blond … if one would turn up missing for 5 minutes, it’d be a non-stop MediaFest !
No, I think the reporters are busy trying to find out when the Ken Lay wake will be…
Here lies Lay.
He lied to the lay people.
Kennyboy’s passing is Clinton’s fault:
http://www.aspendailynews.com/article_14820
If someone finds Somerby irrelevant… maybe the solution is to not read him? Most of the people here probably don’t trust the MSM farther than they can throw them. So their time is better spent looking at the jillion other blogs available.
But there are still some people who believe what the read in print as gospel truth, and I don’t know anyone else who has staked out Somerby’s particular piece of turf. Perhaps Accuracy in Media comes close, but it is pretty bland reading and too often whiney in tone, I think. Somerby may repeat himself by focusing too much on Gore and his mistreatment by the media in 2000, but there are significant numbers of voters now who were twelve years old then, and Americans have short attention spans.
I don’t read Somerby often, primarily because there’s no mechanism for reader comments there. If there was, perhaps Roger could have taken his complaint private. Responding to Somerby here doesn’t refute what he said there, except for those who read both. I read Bilmon less often now, because there’s no dialogue on his site, either.
This post actually sent me back to Somerby to see what was going on there. The post today is angry, (isn’t it always?), thoroughly analytical, and more or less humorless. While he does mention Gore, claiming that Norah O’Donnell and Hilary O’Donnel misconstrued a Gore statement of non-involvement in the Connecticut Primary into a “hope” that Lieberman wins it, this doesn’t constitute the major content.
The principal part of the post is about a topic which has nothing to do with Gore, 2000, the Internets and who invented them or real v. faux democrats. It is a rather brilliant skewering of a pretty badly argued New York Times editorial on Education and Educational Testing. http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh070606.shtml and scroll down, it’s below the Hillary and Gore Stuff: the title is Pity the Children and constitutes the body of the essay. It’s worth a read, I think.
Preview thingy isn’t working, so humble apologies for any bad coding.
lotus at 53:
I hope we’re not tipping those local polls — that’s a double-edged sword of the Net. Are we misleading our own selves?
Never get too excited about Internet polls. I expect Lamont supporters are tipping them, considering the relative Net-savvy of the two campaigns. But it’s still important to do.
One of the things that happened between 2000 and 2004 was the better understanding by our side that perception of debate results is created and shaped by the media, but that their perception can be shaped by input from the public. In 2000, everyone could tell Gore won each debate, but by a day later, Bush was declared the winner if he exceeded expectations by not drooling on himself.
In 2004, there was an organized effort on Kos and elsewhere to find and jump on every Internet debate poll and “what did you think?” comment board. The result was that Kerry and Edwards were grudgingly acknowledged to have won nearly every debate.
Just as we shouldn’t trust Internet polls, but we can’t help feeling good or annoyed about them, so the editors and journalists may know intellectually they shouldn’t trust them, but can’t help feeling they mean something.
(And I will add that having comment boards attached to them does mean somewhat more. Writing individualized comments requires more commitment than just getting a hint and clicking on a poll.)
Mornin’ Firedogs,
tivo’d the debate and immediately began to fast forward through it the second Heave-Jo opened w/Rep talking points – looks like Ned acquitted himself well (although the resident metrosexual suit diva had issues) guess I’ll go back and see what last night’s threads had to say
still limited to early am blogging due to work schedule, but considering my service provider killed 5, count ‘em 5, trojan horse (myspace most likely culprit) on my system – guess I should be happy to be on line at all
btw, MSRNC reporting Ken Lay is still dead
Sometimes the truch hurts. I’d guess some people don’t like Somerby because he points out Democratic shortcomings in the media that they would rather not hear about. I took it personnally for a while, too. Bottom line is the guy is a Democrat and wants the Democratic talking heads to start fighting back instead of being a bunch of patsies. What’s wrong with that?
I know the Larry King interview has been quoted several times, but has anyone noted that Bush didn’t give the obvious answer, that of course he’d be supporting the Republican nominee?
I used to try to read Somerby, but his long meandering narrative style puts me to sleep. If he’s making any good points, they’re lost on me because I’ve tuned out by the second paragraph. Beats seconal for sleep inducement (second only to a patent brief).
Bush will be supporting the ‘Republican’ nominee which is not necessarily of the nominee of the Republican Party of Connecticut …
Well, now the Courant poll is down to 50.2% didn’t watch vs. 16.3 JoHo vs. 30.8 Ned.
Gotta go — catchyez later.
‘bye lotus!
ccmask at 94: That doesn’t seem so strange to me. A lot of people don’t care enough to watch the debate (or didn’t know it was being broadcast, or when), but still want to know what happened.
Attack of the Straw Man,…
Ailes says:
“Bob says he’s caught me red-handed, pulling the wool over your eyes.”
No Roger, he did not say that. He said your piece was “childish” not manipulative. Specifically he said,…
“Klein and Roberts aren’t “Republicans (and that it is) a childish way to discuss the enduring problems with their work as pundits (problems Bob has discussed for almost 10 years). More specifically, as anyone who watched This Week would know, that post completely misrepresents what actually occurred in Sunday’s roundtable. In fact, Klein took some version of the Democrat/liberal stance in every single thing he said.
Next Ailes writes,…
“Let me introduce my good friend Bob to the literary device known as comic hyperbole. Here’s how it works.”
The sanctimony in this sentence is so asinine it takes us back to Junior High School. Hey Roger, attempting to school a professional comedian on comedy is not wise (man I can’t wait for Somerby’s reply, especially for all of those who in knee-jerk fashion defended Alies in this thread)
Also Somerby said “Wall Street Journal reporter John Harwood simply isn’t a rightwinger” and pointing to Harwood’s stated favorite websites is about as accurate a way to find out his political leanings as looking to see whether he uses “Democrat” in a sentence when clearly the word “Democratic” was called for.
Bob then says,….” the panels were not driven by “GOP talking-points”—and no, John Harwood is not “a right-winger.” On both the Meet the Press and This Week roundtables, the Bush Admin was roundly battered for its assault on the New York Times. Anyone who watched these shows knew it. Only readers of this liberal site weren’t allowed to know.”
Face it everyone Somerby is correct completely on this,…What is to argue with this statement:
“We liberals can’t afford to make ourselves stupid. There are foolish people all over the pseudo-con web, but their efforts fit inside a larger framework—a web of effective, adult-run think- and spin-tanks, which have been in operation for the past forty years. There is no similar superstructure overseeing and shaping liberal/progressive argument. If liberals and progressives are going to be effective, it will have to come from the bottom up. It’s hard to see how that will result from such willful, feel-good distortions.
Here at THE HOWLER, we’ve watched pseudo-con and mainstream journalists mislead average voters for years. But readers who went to this liberal site were vastly misled about Sunday’s programs—in a way designed to make them feel good about their massive victimization. In truth, it would be hard to compile a more absurd account of Sunday’s This Week than the one we have linked to. In the long run, we can’t imagine how nonsense like this can serve progressive interests.”
Where is Bob wrong here? And can anyone respond without attacking me personally?
Finally, can we get a Sunday commentator that will actually do the work?? This line from Ailes was thigh-rubbingly ridiculous:
The panels were loaded with Republicans and Republicans-posing-as-journalists, and I didn’t want to spend too much time transcribing G.O.P. talking points.
Hey Roger, could you at least spend some time being accurate and relevant or informative? If not please let someone else do this Sunday gig.
Sincerely,
Chris G
Possibly
Hey
SpitoonPatton,Just checked in and noticed your comment 51 @ 4:18 am
*G*….I feel terrible… so I too, must confess. There have been numerous times that I have traveled…actually at speeds far in excess of 90MPH and let me tell you…a great many things go through your mind when you are about to execute a military HALO jump. Of course you must know that- you being the war god Patton, a fighting wingnut keyboarder who’s got his genders all worked up attacking our Jane and her dogs.
HotDamn!!Boy, you got some set of BBs in that sack.
Larry
I, too, used to read the DH faithfully when there wasn’t much out there; haven’t looked at it in years. He tries so hard to be perfectly even-handed and fair, but this ain’t the playground. It’s war, and Somerby frags his buddies too much over trivia.
I prefer to ignore Klein because he’s a turd. Harwood is an acquaintance but I just can’t take guys that white seriously (I’m pretty much too white to be taken seriously myself). For anyone who likes some reality in their coffee, there’s an absolute must-read by E.J. Dionne this morning at
It Couldn’t Happen Here
Don’t forget about campdemocracy.org.
“The American People will become the Troops Out Now Coalition!”
peace,
jim
http://webpages.charter.net/micah/Liebaddick.png
New pro-Joe ad from Jesus’ General.
Very funny Noonan at 115
guys – just a general comment
tough to shake this gnawing feeling that the game may be afoot
first Joe, despite being in the political fight of his life, leads off for Repubs in Senate Iraq ‘debate’, then channels Mehlman for the entire Lamont debate
either he really is sooo insulated and sooo arrogant as to think this is truly working for him (Bush JAR in Conn. is currently 24%) OR someone’s already let him know that the fix is in, and he’ll eek out a win – someone please disabuse me of this notion
Despite the fact that he’s attacked us several times, I actually asked Somerby to lead the book discussion of Eric Boehlert’s Lapdogs in the second week. He never responded. Now he’s upset because Roger called Joe Klien a Republican? Please. Somerby is sophisticated enough to follow the argument that Klein’s Democrat-bashing has done the bidding of the GOP for years — he’s one of the people that helped construct that particular argument. He’s just being cranky here.
op99
Your buddy is someone who tells you that you have sh*t on your face. Alies piece is a playground piece full of false-victimization and feel-good BS. That post was not written by someone I want to be at War with. Also the War terminology is a bit old isn’t it, as well as being a Republican line used to justify them saying and doing anything they damn well please, do we really want to buy into that? Bob is a friend of your side in this ‘war’, Roger’s piece was not the piece of a ‘buddy’ it was a piece of pap.
Sincerely,
Chris G.
cbl, Nah, he knows he’s screwed with Democrats, so he’s already started pandering hard to the Reps and Unaffiliateds.
Jane, please read Bob’s post,…
“Now he’s upset because Roger called Joe Klien a Republican?”
He nowhere says he’s upset because Klien is called a Republican. He said this,…(Roger’s) post completely misrepresents what actually occurred in Sunday’s roundtable. In fact, Klein took some version of the Democrat/liberal stance in every single thing he said.
Will the straw men ever stop on this thread?
Sincerely,
Chris G.
Chris G, WHO CARES? It’s not important in the larger scheme of trying to save democracy.
Describing valid or even invalid criticism as an “attack” or “bashing” is a bit childish too isn’t it? Where is the sense of measure people? Isn’t this the same this we are all so wound up about with the Noron/Cindy MSNBC interview? When Noron kept insisting that Cindy’s criticims were an “attack”?
Sincerely,
Chris G
Moderator…my 113
I confessed..so.. Why the “tag”….never seen that before
Larry
Somerby’s point is that credit should be given where it’s due, and that good behavior should be rewarded.
Klein has said some loathsome things recently (e.g., the “spectre” of Conyers and Rangel as Committee Chairman). But on This Week and in a recent column, Klein has been very hard on Bush.
What Somerby is trying to do (in a heavy handed way, admittedly), is say that when Klein behaves it should be noted.
I wonder if Klein is suddenly changing his tone because he has been hit by a shitstorm of attacks from bloggers about his egregious statements.
op99,
Roger’s Sunday review was no “democracy saving” excercise and I am not the only one who feels that its quality in so far as information, accuracy and humor was a huge step down from what this site normally posts. Is it a BIG DEAL? No. But Bertrand Russell used to say that you could judge how weak a person’s position is on a subject by the amount of emotion they display while arguing about it. Under this wise reflection it is clear that Somerby was spot on, just gaze at ad hominems directed towards me personally above for simply and politely calling this spade a spade.
Sincerely,
Chris G.
Jews not “clannish” enough for Liebermann’s Irish-American advisor http://lamontblog.blogspot.com…..rting.html
I have to admit I speeded once also. But my speedometer was broken. I felt so bad about it later that I mowed every house’s lawn in my county to make up for it.
“It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory.”
- General George Patton Jr
Roger, if you ever work your way thru these comments, I just want you to know that using a Tex Avery illustration to make your points wins with me every time. Especially if that still involves “Wolfy”.
Thanks for a great start to my Friday morning!
Rep Peter King on MSNBC trying to rehab himself with New Yorkers, says he’s known about the tunnel threat for 10 months…gives props to NYPD. Which begs the question, WTF was Homeland Security thinking cutting the NYC budget because there were no “significant landmarks” concurrent with classified top secret behind the scenes info about an impending assault on NYC tunnels.
Hello…if the threat’s so real???? King, you don’t get to have it both ways.
To Live and Drive in L.A.
Sure, I’ll do 90 sometimes. If I can’t do 95.
Heh heh heh!
I take no position on this Somerby-Ailes contretempts. I would only note that, in order to avoid some (but not all) confusion, perhaps it would be best to avoid using partisan labels for journalists, such as tagging them “Republican” or “Democrat.” Few journalists will admit to a partisan affiliation. However, it should be fine to label a journalist “conservative” or “liberal” or to state that a journalist tends to be a Republican fellow-traveler.
I would like to say, though, IMHO, Bob Somerby runs one of the most important blogs on the web. He was the only one out there talking about the MSM war on Clinton/Gore and how the MSM gifted the presidency to Bush in 2000. He was ahead of his time. To this day, it is still easy to find Democrats and liberals blaming Al Gore for mistakes he did not make, but were attributed to him by an MSM that was bent on destroying his candidacy, for reasons still obscure. There are a lot of people out there who would benefit from reading the Daily Howler.
To the extent that he criticizes Democrats or liberals when he finds them misspeaking, he is correct — we liberals/Democrats are best served by leaders who speak honestly. With the leadership we have today, there is no need to stretch the truth to make our case.
Cripes. I’d better check that off one the list. We’ve been through a bunch of different iterations of “concern trolls” here, been checking them off as the various permutations arrive.
We ne get to the “intellectual concern troll”.
Any time now an argument will break out quoting Spinoza, Hegel and Wittgenstein…
Somerby tries to remind us daily of the damage that is done by character assasination when facts be damned. He continues to try to keep us liberals honest and raise the bar of discourse so we don’t become that which we abhor. There are days when his posts are painful to read, but his intentions are spot on.
I gotcher Hegel right here.
Okay people — I have a dachsund who clearly ate a bug or something yesterday and now has a case of the “runs” (if you know what I mean). I accidently deleted my first post of the day and had to completely reconstitute it. And now there’s some sort of internecine comments warfare going on — and I am really not in the mood for it today (see above dog with runs…).
Please, this is one of those cases where we are going to have to agree to disagree. Roger did his column, Sommersby critiqued, Roger responded. No doubt Sommersby will either re-critique, respond or ignore. But Roger and Sommersby are both adult fellows who can disagree because, well, that’s what people with opinions do.
Additionally, people here can disagree because that’s also what people with opinions do. BUT IT WILL REMAIN CIVIL OR I WILL SHUT OFF COMMENTS ALTOGETHER. Am I clear? I have off-white carpet and have spent the morning running my small dog out to the lawn, I don’t have time for nastiness above and beyond that, I’m afraid.
Sorry if this is beyond my usual grouchiness level, but a little patience would go a long way — and some memory that both I and our VOLUNTEER moderator helpers also have lives away from the keyboard every once in a while. (I do get to refill my coffee, pee my dog and hit the bathroom myself.)
Let’s all take a deep breath and try and be more civil. And there is a new thread (albeit a shorter one than I had originally written before I deleted it *sob*) up top. Thanks.
Daily Howler
FireDogLake
Hmm. “Importance.” Must mull that over.
al-Scooter – heh. gel.
Larry 115: HALO….interesting.
Halo, Halo, infantry
Queen of Battle always be….
gotta go run now. chuckle.
Ghostman
Y’all have a Firedoglake day – will try to catch ya tonight (3rd double in a row – love the $$$, hate bein’ away from y’all)
I share the worry that we may just get too intellectual here. So I propose for every quote from Spinoza, http://www.iep.utm.edu/s/spinoza.htm Hegel, http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hegel/ or Wittgenstein, http://www.iep.utm.edu/w/wittgens.htm one be required to also quote Mortimer Snerd, http://www.snerdville.com/ Rodney Dangerfield, http://www.rodney.com/rodney/home/home.asp or Goofy http://disney.go.com/DisneyRec…..y_Bio.html to keep the conversation from going too highbrow. [snicker]
*ilson @ 136– that is quite the bombshell.
sheesh.
Roger,
Re “unsolicited [sic] manuscript concerning the 2000 election” snark: That’s presumably a reference to this piece Somerby wrote explaining why Gore’s supposed character problem was really the press’ invention:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/h071100_3.shtml
For what it’s worth, that manuscript was solicited by Marty Peretz for TNR (I can’t stand Peretz for the most part, but he is a Gore fan). It got deep-sixed by Peter Beinart. You can read the backstory here:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh050406.shtml
If that manuscript had been published, I have litte doubt that Gore would have won 2000 (of course the election was so close you could probably say that about 100 things) and would probably be president today.
Ned vs Joe
Joe is nervous..the 18 yr “entitled” sen had a choice of trying to ignore & ride out the pesky Ned fly. In a previous time that probably would have worked but for current factors such as grassroots dems prodding the dem machine hard to remember what a democrat should be.
18 years: it’s the quality, not the quantity, stupid!
The words anger & hate concerning blogger & grassroot dems thrown around cluelessly by Joe show arrogance & contempt. In his 2000 book, “In Praise of Public Life”, available at a dollar store near you, he quotes Jimmy Carter: the american people deserve a government as good as they are. Which is it; a government that the Joes think we should have or a government that voting dems are saying loud & clear they want? (And deserve, dammit)
The dem party is in a bubble. Even the better dems obviously need educating (ie Boxer). Our election process does a bangup job of distancing office holders & candidates from constituents. Campaigning is a nightmare of raising mindboggling amts of $..so little time & energy left for incumbents to do their job & challengers to concentrate on their messages. Too much influence by big $ contributors & on & on. Sigh, in some scandinavian countries big money influences or profiting from holding a seat are frowned upon & scrutinized.
Establishment media does it’s best to portray the efforts of progressive bloggers & bring the troops home supporters as fringe or radical. They try to sell to americans the 60’s type images of young, hateful, hippie, violent, bush bashing, unpatriotic, etc. vs the reality of such a large amount of americans who are 40 & up into their 80’s from all walks of life, hard working, cherish their families & so on.
Considering that the path down the wrong road has been decades in the making, I see signs of progress. Media & dem officeholders are having to pay more attention. Larry King described the CT primary as an “unusual situation”. Challenging incumbents that are not representing their constituents should be the norm. Hopefully, moderate repubs who are fed up with the direction their radicalized party has taken this country are taking notes. The moderate repubs have been shoved out or neutered. The reality is that loonies are in charge. Even if they have to hold their noses to vote dem, it’s the only way to get the thugs out. That’s exactly what I would do if positions were reversed.
This is exactly why I stopped reading Somerby about two years ago. My life does not feel any less complete because of that decision.
Oy, the daily howler. This is the guy who spends pages and pages trying to throw Joe Wilson under the bus. No thanks.
I read Somerby nearly every day – here’s my take:
- Yes, his writing style can grate. He is repetitious and, at times, condescending. But he is extremely thorough.
- He is arguably a pioneer in the use of Lexis/Nexis to make a case, which is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the volume of proof he presents helps to make his arguments very solid. But you have to wade through a lot, and his writing style can sometimes make the experience tedious. To be fair, sometimes I also find him to be entertaining; as he says, it’s “a matter of judgement.”
- He is prone to pissing off people who should be on his team, and, sometimes, he’s hypocritical. He took on Atrios once for using salty language, but he’s engaged in it himself more than once. He has gotten into spats with Drum and Marshall that I consider to be silly. But he has also been right in many of his criticisms – sometimes, your worst critic is your best friend.
- He writes a lot. It would be impossible for anyone not to screw up now and then when they put out as much as Somerby.
- He calls out libs on what he perceives to be their BS, and at times he is nit-picky (I agree that the venom he aims at Joe Wilson is disproportional to Wilson’s failings). But he does so because he has higher standards for the left than for the right, and that’s a GOOD thing.
- No one has better documented the awful way the press acted during 2000, and he contributed mightly to the pushback in 2004.
To me, Somerby remains very valuable for two reasons:
1) He has shown, more than anyone, that the problems the left has in getting out their message have to do with the MAINSTREAM press, and not the right-wing noise machine. Debunking the wing-nuts is important, but it’s not enough.
2) He has – again, more than anyone I see – issued a call to the left to begin to attack the coronation of McCain NOW. In this, I think he is quite prophetic – this election is in serious danger of being lost at this moment because few on our side are focusing our attention on stopping the “Straight Talker.” That has to start TODAY, or we will lose again in 2008.
Last thought: when Wonkette first appeared on the scene, the left bloggosphere seemed to be pretty pleased. Somerby was the first major blogger I can think of to call Anne Marie on her crap (yes, I’m sure there were others, but he stands out in my mind).
He turned out to be right. He may annoy, he may hector, and he may be wrong – really wrong – on more than one occaision.
But I think he still is perceptive and should be heeded. I just wish he’d stop shooting himself in the foot – he could have a lot of clamor for his book around the blogosphere if he was just a bit more diplomatic.
Wake Up EVERYONE!
This is NOT about Somerby! It’s about accuracy and about focus. Let’s let the Republicans deal in personalities while we deal with ideas. Haven’t you all learned anything from the Dean Scream? A political assignation if ever their was one, based purely on personality devoid of substance?
Coming on this thread and making snide remarks about Somerby the person is a terrific way to avoid his point, and these types of useless, masterbatory remarks simply show he was correct whether you still read him or not.
Dissing Somerby without giving any hearing to his actual points is no different than the way you all treat Nader. And let’s face it, where has all of the Nader-”bashing” left us — democrats and otherwise?
Chris G.
Amen MW, especially the Wonkette point and the McCain point!
Sincerely,
Chris G.
Wake Up EV–
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Somerby … fails, however, to make a meticulous case for that proposition, so we’ll just have to take his word for it.
The tragedy of Somerby is that he really, genuinely wants to be a fact-checker, but he’s really not up to it. He’s just not bright enough to understand what’s being said. He doesn’t have a head for facts and tries to hide that behind a gee-whiz rhetorical style that wouldn’t fly in a highschool newspaper. He really wants to defeat right wing misinformation, but he’s not up to it.
The hubris of Somerby is that only he is allowed to uncover the sins of the right, only he is allowed to determine how we can fight back. If you don’t do it his way, he attacks. He’s in charge. For the sake of his own status, he’ll attack other Democrats before he’ll attack Republicans, all while passing on Republican talking-points. In this sense, he’s the Joe Lieberman of the blogsphere. If I felt like being charitable, I’d say that Somerby is just too stupid to know when he’s being used to pass on Republican talking points.
And so Somerby is as useless as the journalists he attacks. He’s either too uneducated or too full of himself to be useful in the guerilla war we wage against corporate misinformation.
.
He calls out libs on what he perceives to be their BS, and at times he is nit-picky (I agree that the venom he aims at Joe Wilson is disproportional to Wilson’s failings). But he does so because he has higher standards for the left than for the right, and that’s a GOOD thing.
He attacks the entire left blogsphere because they won’t obey him. That makes him the proximate enemy. [edited a bit by CHS — what part of play nice did everyone not understand?] We’re the underdog, we can’t afford y’all.
If you’ve got a problem with how pushback is being handled, use the goddam email. Otherwise, you just work for the right.
.
Roger – I think that you missed the entire point of the dailyhowler comment.
If your contention is that Joe Klein has time and again some very stupid/wrong/misguided comments, then you will not get any argument from me.
If your contention is that your Rockets Head Glare article
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..head-glare
gave the readers an accurate portrayal of what was said on the Sunday Talk shows, then you are totally wrong.
Read some of the comments at the end of the rockets head glare article. Go listen to the podcast and read the transcripts of the shows.
The daily howler is correct.
Roger, thanks for the explanatory post to Somerby, he’s been pretty dazed and confused the last couple of years.
But you do know that ‘Hey Rube!” is a warning call used by circus workers warning when there’s a fight brewing between crew and townies?
Which is why I’m standing here in the daylight, blinking, and holding a cut down pool cue, looking for the fight.