Roots

Holy Joe Looked nervous and was like a spoiled petulant child.

BTW

ROOTZ!

Good golly! And on sloooooow dial-up, too.

Ned, Jane, Redd and all the rest of this family!!!

NED!

does anyone know what was yelled out in the audience during the debate that got both of their attention for a second?

Nedz!

attention(s)

and Ned does need to read the “dress for TV” chapter in the media relations handbook next time.

click on my name to go to FDLs Ned-contribution page at ActBlue

Joe looked like he was ready to go home and kick his dog.

Joe was pissed that he missed “cocktail weenie” happy hour down in D.C. That came through loud and clear.

I think we can agree that Holy oe did not cover himself in glory. Amd Lamont did not suck.

If we were to take a page out of Shrub’s book, for lamont, a non-loss=a win.

In other words, so long as Lamont exceded expectations, he won

Just sitting here with the wheels spinning. The Democrats have said time and time again they want open and honest debates and campaigns without sinking to the level of the Republicans and their personal attacks. We got Joe making attacks, storming out after the debate and not thanking Ned. Does it really sound like Joe is standing for the Democratic Party by exhibiting the very actions which the party is against? I would have to say that is a big fat NO.

Tom at 10 – why? Is the dog voting for Ned, too? Guess Kobe and the girls have been busier than we thought…

Sitting on a sofa on a Thursday afternoon.
Going to the candidate’s debate.
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you’ve got to choose
Every way you look at this you lose.

Where have you gone, Joey Leiberman,
Our nation turns its rolling eyes to you.
What’s that you say, Joey Leiberman.
Jolting Joe has left and gone away,
Hey hey hey.

———–

*ilson, you such a consumate shill! Keep it going!!! I can only hope that my middle of the road Dem. Senatorial campaign takes a look at what’s happening in Connecticut. Jr. (that would be Harold Ford of the Memphis dynasty fame) will face either a pretty good liberal Republican (Bob Corker), whose campaign I have already told that I like his policy but cannot stand that he would caucus with the Rs, or a real shrill rightwing loser (two possibilities on this side) cannot bring himself to articulate a semi-progressive thought in this-here Tennessee campaign. Ned makes us all proud!

When Lamont was asked about his $90 million fortune, I wish he would have fired back with, “Who would you rather have as your Senator– a guy who worked hard and earned his money, or a guy who gets it from big corporations and special interests?”

That would have put the nail in the coffin.

Unfortunately C-SPAN cut their coverage before I could determine whether or not Lieberman thanked Lamont at the end. They were rather far apart when they got up from their seats and there were a couple of people between them. The debate was poorly staged and poorly moderated.

Ned won. The vote is now in the hands of the people of Conn. Thankfully, sites like firedoglake, DailyKos, mydd, wolcott, etc. are making this a very important race which will bring the voters out of their homes. Remember, people who are smart enough to vote are smart enough to know when the wool is being pulled over their eyes. Joe’s mistake was his rudeness and his Health Care crap that the fine people of Conn. have heard from Joey for years. They can sense that Joe feels that since he has put the time in, he should be allowed to stay. And also, voters are now punching that ballot with a post 911 puncher.

Color Joe Gone.

joe’s body language was so aggressive. i thought he was going to go stand at ned’s podium and poke him with his finger. and, what the hell was he talking about! just a string of wingnut code phrases. i especially hate the ones he threw to the far right koolaid rapture round the corner club.

Freshly EPU’d:

If the DSCC had any question before tonight that JoHo means to cause all the trouble he can in November, surely they got their answer. He dissed the party repeatedly, blatantly, obnoxiously.

Biden, Boxer, Salazar, Pryor – any other CoHos who want to trot along with or after him – you are hereby on notice.

Good one, Anne 14!

Darn, EPU’d

Urban Pirate says:

July 6th, 2006 at 6:58 pm

Local pulse –

Mom – thought he (Ned) did ok, but seemed inexperienced – she has been worried about splitting the ticket. Thought Joe was insufferable – went from on the fence to definately voting for Ned, including getting out there on primary day.

Step Dad – and this is surprising, because he HATES politics and politicians. He’s from Floida and is a middle of the road NASCAR fan.

He thought Ned said “what the Democrats should have been saying for years” – “Lieberman is slippery.” Will vote for Ned in Nov. (Im trying to get him to register for the primary, but he refuses to belong to any party)

Interesting. Look forward to seeing how the “hate politicians” crowd reacts.

I think Joe ran out to get a refill of koolaid. He declared his Independance and hopefully the voters will honor it. And if Joe gets lucky, Diebold will help out and his independance will allow him to be the Republican he always wanted.

When is Ken Kay’s funeral?

My money is on Kobe pulling a plug to coax her out of the building and closer to a Starbucks for pumpkin loaf…

Don’t sell me short, Redd. As you can see, I grabbed the whole friggin’ laptop.

When us poodles want attention, we don’t mess around.

Leaverman was angry because Ned told the truth about him.

I really wanted to see what CT voters were thinking so I hung around awhile at the local NBC30 site and read the comments there.

It sure seems to me, that FDL is no echo chamber. The responses there seemed to be the same type of responses I see here, but not nearly written as well.

I assumed some would go there and post and you can generally tell to some extent who are familiar with presenting themselves online and who isn’t.

The summary appears to be that Lieberman was too smug, attacky, and polished and Lamont IS Mr. Smith representing the real voice. His little blinky doe eyes were actually a wonderful asset, I think. :)

just for laughs
watch the debate again with a glass of wine and without the sound.

really

watch the body language.
we absorb the meaning of body language without being aware of it, so it is very powerful.

HoJo did very poorly in the body language department. You can’t practice that and you can’t prep that.
Ned’s lack of pretention was evident, but endearing.

and yes, I noticed that HoJo walked out of there like W. and Laura walking out of Colbert’s Press Club performance.

Joe seemed so hateful, you’d think he was a blogger.

and yes, I noticed that HoJo walked out of there like W. and Laura walking out of Colbert’s Press Club performance.

Well, he *is* a petulanting Democrat.

I should have added, please read what the CT voters are saying themselves:

http://forums.ibsys.com/viewme…..opic=14120

It’s wonderful!

neurophius at 29 — hey, I resemble that remark… *g*

Great line, Neurophius at 29.
That’s what I love about our side–we’ve got a sense of humor.

Joe seemed so hateful, you’d think he was a blogger.

Um, speaking of which, I hope you didn’t think my response to your comment at my blog was snotty – after I typed it I thought it maybe didn’t come off quite as lightly as it was supposed to…

OT and dee-lightful:

Coulter Plagiarism Story Picks Up Steam

By Justin Rood

Is the Ann Coulter plagiarism story shifting from a one-day spark into a days-long saga?

Interest appears to be growing. John Barrie, the man whose technology identified the instances of plagiarism in acidic right-wing writer Ann Coulter’s columns, is getting more calls to do national television.

. . .

38
thanks for the sweet bon bon, Lotus.

EPU’d, previous thread:

BarbaraB — somebody beat me to it [buying the domain WhoIsNedLamont.com], and I don’t know if they’re somebody from “our team”.

Any Firepups got scoop on it, dish it out here.

In the mean time, I need to find somebody in CT who’s pro-Lamont who wants the Blogger site I set up, http://whoisnedlamont.blogspot.com.

Firepups, help me out here and find me somebody to give this to!!

He looks like Senator Palpatine.

I watched the debate on the tiny C-Span on my computer and after the debate it looked to me like Ned made a step toward Joe the Jerk to shake his hand. I think Joe had already started moving in back of Ned so I’m not sure if the hands met. If they did it was for milliseconds. Then I saw a Joe streak in back of the woman moderator toward the male questioners. Then he was gone.

Maybe his pants were on fire…

Josh Marshall’s post on Ned’s 50-41 lead among CT Jewish voters was so intriguing that I followed the link to the source story:

http://www.jta.org/page_view_s…..tegoryid=3

Apologies if this has been posted earlier, I’m in prepetual catch-up mode tonight.

IMO, the article itself is a microcosm of this race, with Joe in such hot water that his Irish-Americam campaign manager is laying a guilt trip on CT Jews for not doing the full ID politics dance for “…one of [their] own.” Or did I read the article all wrong?

Yikes-indeedy!

I watched the debate on the tiny C-Span on my computer

Hold me closer, tiny C-Spanner.

Then I saw a Joe streak in back of the woman moderator toward the male questioners. Then he was gone.

Maybe his pants were on fire…

Apparently CT reporters are like kryptonite to Superjoe.

Eli at 7:16 p.m.

Thanks. I didn’t take anything you said over there as negative. I also did not intend to single you out as a textbook example of blogwhoring, far from it. I don’t see any problem with your occasional mentions. When I get my own blog I will probably do the same. I was more responding to things that had been said earlier that were pretty critical of people mentioning their blogs, and trying to point out that listing FDL on your blog made it more acceptable.

My wife caught the snub as well. That may be the “moment of the debate.

At the closing of the broadcast I saw Ned extend a handshake to Joe, who grudgingly acknowledged it while pushing his way past Ned.

Thanks, neuro. That was how I took it, I just wasn’t sure if that was how *you* took I took it… I’ve sworn off blogwhoring pretty decisively – it makes me feel like crap, and the payoff is minimal (not to mention ultimately meaningless).

Maybe if I say something so profound and insightful (and on-topic) that I think everyone needs to read it, but that’s pretty damn rare.

Is the blonde in the picture with the beige jacket and purse over her right shoulder Jane?

Joe Lieberman is just flat a stinker. End of story.

All I want from tomorrow’s media buzz are three little words:

Ned’s for real.

The rest has a month of campaigning to get fixed.

ned was great, but let’s talk about wardrobe. the shirt collar is a too horizontal and with his sloped shoulders it makes him look a bit feminine. the baby pastels work against him too. i’m thinking bolder colors in shirts and ties. possibly stripe in the shirt. no stripe ties. i like his soft boy look but he has to butch it up with the shirts and ties. mfa in costume design and 20 years in television and film speaking.

Well, from my own perspective, Lieberman’s behavior post-debate might just save the day for Lamont. DURING the debate, I didn’t see any anger in Lieberman. I DID see alot of rudeness and arrogance. But I fault Lamont for “taking it”. Not standing up like a man and fighting back.

But when the battle is over, a Real Man shakes hands with his opponent, they each congratulate each other, and display some grace. If these reports are true that Lieberman stormed out of the studio, then this becomes a huge loss for Lieberman. The key will be if the newspapers report this as relayed by Lamont people.

Ghostman

Is the blonde in the picture with the beige jacket and purse over her right shoulder Jane?

Is the black spot next to her Kobe?

Does anyone know if MSNBC or CSPAN are going to rebroadcast the debate?

The three most telling moments for me:

“You’ve had 18 years there and yet Connecticut is 49th in Federal spending?”

“This isn’t Fox News, sir.”

Joe’s storm-out.

shooogarp:

cspan 2 tonite

10:07 PM EDT
0:54 (est.)
Debate
Connecticut Democratic Primary Debate for U.S. Senate
WVIT-TV
Joseph Lieberman , D-CT
Ned Lamont , D, Connecticut

To answer your question and I apologize if someone has already answered, yes, Ned Lamont walked over toward Lieberman with his hand outstretched. Lieberman appeared to be uncomfortable, rigid and reserved at that moment but did ultimately take his hand.

The finger pointed was abominable…but GREAT for us!!!

Ned was nervous at first but he quickly found his stride, probably just via the waves of anger emanating from Lieman. From that point on, I think Ned had the upper hand.

Fantastic first outing!

again on cspan 2 at 1:16 am edt, too.

I’m MST. Does that mean it’s on now? Crap. Still stuck at work.

Rayne, I sent your comment to ctblogger, who is sitting in for ctbob while he is away.

Thanks Angie. I am going to try to get my girlfriend to watch. She doesn’t know anything about Ned or Joe and I will get her unbiased opinion.

Didn’t see the whole debate- but looked like Joe was confident and competent- and Ned looked as if he was out of his league. Debates are not what determines winners in campaigns- but if they were- Ned’s through–based on what I saw.

My understanding was that this was the “only” scheduled debate.
I could definitely be wrong about this, and the CT Dems might want another debate, but if not, I don’t see any advantage to Ned debating him again.
HoJo just has certain things memorized that he is going to slide in. It’s not a debate for HoJo,it’s an attempt to score debating points.
JMO right now.

Ghostman at 50 — That’s why I’m hoping that Amato will be able to pull at least the rudeness to the moderator bit on film for me. I missed it, and I’d like to see it for myself, but I’ve gotten enough e-mails on the subject at this point to think that it was obvious enough that multiple people spotted it before I posted this article. The same with the storming out of the building — that I woulod expect to be noted, at least by local media, since the photo of the campaign manager sort of speaks for itself as to how many folks were talking to them after Lieberman left the building. It’s really bizarre behavior — and not something you would EVER expect from a sitting Senator, at least not that I would have expected anyway, even one as whiny as Lieberman.

Squirrel hiller: What????? We have the Gore “dress him up-dress him down” stuff. Who cares what he is wearing – he is not a dress up doll. I imagine he closed many a financial deal wearing his own clothes.

I know T.V. is everything, but the man must wear comfortable – to him – clothes.

Ned now at 81% in both polls (Joe 15% MSNBC, 19% local).

It was embarassing when Joe accused Ned of lying in trashing Joe about supporting Clusterfuck’s social security plan- and Ned said NOTHING in his own defense. Thought it was all over at that point.

The more I look at Joe Lieberman, the more he begins to sound and act like the late Kenneth Lay…and actually somewhat looks like him.

Both exhibit similar ego-centric characteristics. And where the late Kenneth Lay had a hard time swallowing the collapse of his Enron empire (brought on by his Republican arrogance), Joe Lieberman is having a very hard time accepting the crumbling of his Senate empire (brought on by his conservative arrogance).

I wonder if this is how all the arrogant conservatives (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Scalia, Frist, Hastert, Blofeld, etc. etc.) will react as they watch their dreams of empire crumble into dust? Will they all react in the same spoiled-brat, petulant way?

Because, one must realize, dreams of empire always fail in this world and crumble into dust eventually. It is the nature of this world, just as it is the nature of all ego-centric nutcases to always aspire to empire. Some never seem to learn.

ROFL HH4M #38–that’s exactly who he reminds me of!

rwcole,

Re: “but looked like Joe was confident and competent”

Looked more like entitled and arrogant to me.

Bush on Lieberman on Larry King …

LARRY KING: Move to politics. An unusual situation in Connecticut. Joe Lieberman is running for reelection to the Senate.
He’s in the primary fight, may lose, and has said that if he loses, he might well run as an independent.

He supported you staunchly on Iraq and Iraq is the major issue in that campaign, the primary.

Would you support him if he ran as an independent?

G. BUSH: First, the Democrats have to sort out who their nominee is going to be and that’s going to be up to the Democrats. And the rest of it’s hypothetical.

LARRY KING: But he said he would run as an independent, if he were…

G. BUSH: He also has said he’s going to win his primary.

LARRY KING: I know you like him.

G. BUSH: You’re trying to get me to give him a political kiss, which may be his death.

LARRY KING: You hugged him before the State of the Union, right?

No, I know you generally…

G. BUSH: The Democrats are going to figure it out. They’ll figure it out.

LARRY KING: So you would not make a decision on that.

G. BUSH: Well, I’m not going to wade into a Democratic primary in the state of Connecticut.

– Josh Marshall

The Oracle, it’s quite easy to visualize Chimpy acting exactly like Joe did at the end tonight.

69 was taken from Josh Marshall’s Talking Points, btw.

Re: “but looked like Joe was confident and competent”

Looked more like entitled and arrogant to me.

The Republicans have somehow wired everyone’s brain so that they can’t tell the difference…

Angie, I thought the same thing when I saw that photo, it looks like her, her hair is a little longer than at YKos, but right color and such. If she can get back on, we’ll ask.

rwcole 60

My, you are so . . .so . . . dramatic.

And, yes, you should have watched the whole debate.

I don’t know what the experts are going to say, but it looks like the people of CT and the rest of the country are calling this for Lamont.

There is hope for a lot of us supporting our own “Ned Lamonts” in the fall.

RW @ 60

Did you see the same debate I watched?

Joe only hammered attack points home. He did not prove to me why he is the better candidate.

Whoopee…he talked about earmarks, he talked about seniority, but he did not address the central question….Why does he not support the Democratic Party?

Joe is a putz….confidence hell, I call it arrogance.

Lieberman did shake Lamont’s hand. But it was very hurried and kinda rude.

The way I remember it, Lamont turned to Lieberman, and put out his hand to shake. Lieberman was basically looking past Lamont at the moderators, waiting for a time that he could go and thank them. Lieberman saw Lamont’s hand, shook it very briefly and started walking towards the moderators to thank them.

So . . . yes, he did shake Lamont’s hand, but was fairly rude about it.

lina 5: does anyone know what was yelled out in the audience during the debate that got both of their attention for a second?

Yeah. I’m dying to know what that was too!

Did Lamont wipe his hand on his pants after Joe shook it? I would have. I just sayin’….

RWCole 65

IIRC, you thought it was all over at several points.

Instead of memorial donations “in lieu of flowers, please donate to the Democratic Party”, Wouldn’t it be more effective to state “in lieu of flowers, please donate to Ned Lamont for US Senate from Connecticut.

Any help with the wording of this phrase for the newspaper announcement would be helpful.

Ms. Smith, 62: yep. I think it’s the big thing. If Lieberman is on film displaying all this post-debate behavior…Lamont needs to pound it over Lieberman’s head. Commercials, commercials, commercials. Hopefully the film is out there. And hopefully, the media WILL report this. Folks don’t like someone who battles, but then snivels off like a little wimp after the battle.

Ghostman

I think Ned came off as the real citizen candidate he is. His reservations are partly polite New England which is okay since he’s running to be a Senator from a New England state. Probably the actual confrontation with the ugly arrogance, manipulation, and lies coming from Joe Jerk was a little bit of a shock but I think Ned got stronger as Joe got more out-of-control. Ned’s closing statement was far superior and luckily it came last. If I lived in Connecticut I’d be over to sign up to work for him in the morning. And if I had more money I’d be spending it on Ned tonight.

G. BUSH: You’re trying to get me to give him a political kiss, which may be his death.

ROFLMAO!! That is so much funnier than what people were reporting (they fixed it!)

Watching the debate a second time, Lieberman is awful. He’s falling into the classic Democratic trap of spewing endless, mind-numbing facts and figures. That’s a senate debate, not a campaign debate. (If only Kerry had known that…)

Lamont is kicking ass, he really frames his points in easy-to-understand, visceral terms. And he doesn’t look that bad, whereas Lieberman’s body language is a mix of arrogance and aggression. He sort of leans back and looks down his nose at Lamont.

It is vital for Lamont supporters to face reality at all times if he’s to have a chance to send the despicable Lieberman to the political dustbin where he belongs. That said, I’m not impressed by the rah-rah cheers for Lamont’s performance tonight.

It needs work. He was not only ‘green’ as some have candidly observed, he did not convey the gravitas most voters expect in a senatorial candidate. Nor did he come across as having that firm a grasp on details, especially in the first 20 minutes of the debate when the vast majority of viewers are paying attention.

All’s not lost, but Lamont has a hell of a lot of work to do, now.

I just don’t want us to commit the same mistakes all over again. Optimistic enthusiasm for the cause too often blinded true liberals to political reality in the period of 1968-72, when opposition to the Vietnam War was white-hot, people who would later parent today’s bloggers were in the streets, and some candidates were explicitly running against any and all pro-war candidates, whether in primaries or the general elections.

The anti-war candidates were a great group, on average, and they included some truly powerful personalities — Harold Hughes and Wayne Morse come to mind.

But most of them lost. One reason was their supporters tended to believe their own reviews.

Lamont can’t afford to do that. Be kind to him. Tell him, specifically, what he can do to be better tomorrow… and the days after that/

Josh at http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com has a transcript of Larry King and Chimpy talking about Lieberman tonight.

Re: #26 “Leaverman was angry because Ned told the truth about him.”

I must repeat a favorite quote of mine, by Harry Truman:

I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.
Harry S Truman, in Look, Apr. 3, 1956
33rd president of US (1884 – 1972)

… also, the NASCAR “hates politicians” crowd can really go for the sentiment expressed in Trumans quote.

PS – “Leaverman”! Great! (IMHO)

Stirling weighs in:

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/006530.html

Joey, we knew ye all too well, actually.

all this post-debate behavior puts “cut and run” in a new light

Olberman nailed it:

Joe Lieberman = Crocker Jarmon (from the movie The Candidate)

hat tip to tpm as per #87

LARRY KING: Move to politics. An unusual situation in Connecticut. Joe Lieberman is running for reelection to the Senate.

He’s in the primary fight, may lose, and has said that if he loses, he might well run as an independent.

He supported you staunchly on Iraq and Iraq is the major issue in that campaign, the primary.

Would you support him if he ran as an independent?

G. BUSH: First, the Democrats have to sort out who their nominee is going to be and that’s going to be up to the Democrats. And the rest of it’s hypothetical.

LARRY KING: But he said he would run as an independent, if he were…

G. BUSH: He also has said he’s going to win his primary.

LARRY KING: I know you like him.

G. BUSH: You’re trying to get me to give him a political kiss, which may be his death.

LARRY KING: You hugged him before the State of the Union, right?

No, I know you generally…

G. BUSH: The Democrats are going to figure it out. They’ll figure it out.

LARRY KING: So you would not make a decision on that.

G. BUSH: Well, I’m not going to wade into a Democratic primary in the state of Connecticut.

“there you go again” repeatedly – god what cheapass, cheap fucking rove calculated bullshit. did my heart truly hate this conniving piece of fuck till this night…

I’m sorry I don’t know how to link but Arianna has an excellent post regarding Barbara Boxer’s support for Lieberman.

In case you missed it…

john b. – He needs to sharpen his message on Iraq withdrawal. He needs facts, figures and a few salient talking points.

John B. at 7:50, I appreciate the constructive comments.

oh the fuck please. those two whores did the political equivalent of murder monkey’s fucking tongue down rape gurney’s freaking throat. give me a goddamn break.

and he had the best answer I’ve heard from a Democrat on immigration. but it was a two part answer and he should have stopped after part one.

John B

“people who would later parent today’s bloggers”

I’d just like to point out that a lot of folks on this blog are those people who have parented, and that not all of today’s bloggers are under 30.

kalina77 @ 7:56 pm (#94) Arianna on Boxer’s support of Lieberman.

#89 exc. link–thanks al-Scooter. Too much good stuff to quote.

I watched the entire debate, then immediately ran out the door to keep a volunteer commitment with my local Democratic Party. Didn’t get back home until about an hour ago, and have read the most recent comments but not the first post-debate comment thread. So I don’t know what kind of spin the Old Media have been giving it except for a few bits mentioned here. I’d like to hear a summary of how Hardballs treated it.

Personally, I am a Ned supporter so I know I am not objective, but tried to imagine how others would view the debate. I was worried about Ned early on, thought he had that deer-in-the-headlights look. But if you listened to what he was saying, I think he did very well. And I thought he looked more relaxed and confident as the hour wore on.

I thought Leaverman came across as an old,tired, hackneyed, cynical, Beltway-bound, entitled, it’s-all-about-me politician. His rudeness was striking, and I don’t think most people would like it. I thought the smartest thing he did was asking Ned to disclose his tax returns, but Ned deflected it well.

I thought Joenertia’s claim that Ned had at least 6 positions on Iraq was ludicrous; everything Ned said about the war sounded clear and consistent to me. A majority of the voters don’t agree with Joe on the war, and I don’t think they were buying his spin.

Joe was rude and arrogant, Ned was sincere and appealing. I don’t think much of the crap Joe flung stuck to Ned, it just got Joe’s hands dirty. As the challenger, Ned won by not losing. That’s how I saw it.

cujo at 100:

thank you… i’m really an idiot when it comes to linking… it’s what took me so long to de-lurk…

Can’t wait to hear Jane’s take. I want to know what was blurted out, too.

Ned needs what we all need: love and money. He’ll be okay. He’s nothing if not genuine, and Americans love the underdog. Ned lacked confidence because of his inexperience and the enormous pressure.

Leaverman lacked confidence because he was clearly threatened. He personified entitlement and dismissivness. Were he comfortable with his record, he would have had a lot more grace and poise.

Winning the debate on points has not shown to be a ticket to office. Gore and Kerry both took Chimpy to the cleaners and still did not have enough oomph to knock him out, had to lose by thread.

I don’t think tonight’s debate has much predictive value, but it may turn on the demeanor of the two men, with Ned clearly being more of the mensch and Joe the whining bully (odd combination, that).

OT: Chimpy scratches himself you-know-where.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..=t&f=b

well, just watched the end again. lieberman perfunctorily grasped Ned’s outstretched hand and rushed to the reporters. After joe shook the first one’s hand, that reporter headed toward Ned.

joe looked bad.

Speaking as an entitled white guy, I understand why Rape Gurney Joe’s so snippy. How dare he have to earn his office or even be accountable to the rabble.

Entitlement is a heavy burden.

kalina77 @ 8:02 pm (#103) – The easy way to link is to just put the URL on a separate line, like this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..24516.html

I didn’t do anything to make that into a link, the blog software did it for me. All I had to do was cut-n-paste the URL from my browser’s address bar into the comment.

I didn’t do anything to make that into a link, the blog software did it for me. All I had to do was cut-n-paste the URL from my browser’s address bar into the comment.

Those WordPress tubes are mighty smart.

I’ll have to watch again, but at one point I think Joe starts to accuse Lamont of wanting to “Cu..” you know, cut and run.

As Senator “Network” Stevens would say, “I sure hope somebody didn’t drive a truck into Jane’s tubes.”

Just shows that analogy was at the top of the mountain — it had nowhere to go but downhill.

cujo at 108;

great! the trouble is now i’ll have no excuses…

Thanks for the stirling link, that’s a great essay, as usual.

Eli @ 8:09 pm (#109) – Those WordPress tubes are mighty smart.

I wonder what diameter they are?

Nighty-night, y’all, seeya in the ay-em.

I’ve never heard of Sterling Newberry before, but that was a fabulous write up!

I wonder what diameter they are?

Two pipe r.

Joe’s Value Depends on a Republican Majority
by emptywheel
“I only watched 3/4 of the debate before mr. emptywheel dragged me away, so this may only be a 3/4 fair comment.
But it seemed like one of the really big sells Joe was trying to make was his success at squeezing concessions out of the Republicans. He saved the jobs from base closures. He saved other cutbacks they wanted to make on blue CT.
Basically, he’s arguing his biggest selling point is being able to convince the Republicans not to punish CT too badly for being Democratic.
Doesn’t that value only hold true so long as the Republicans retain a majority in Congress? Doesn’t his entire pitch undermine his claim to want to bring back a Democratic majority?”

Hi Everyone. I just got home from Tisane’s a short while ago. I got to talk to Ned! He was awesome. I even have a picture of me with him — thankfully I had someone take it BEFORE my camera batteries went on the fritz. Anyway, I thanked Ned for bringing up emergency contraceptive for rape victims. I then told him that I was annoyed that Lieberman kept trying to say this is a one issue campaign when it wasn’t. I said to Ned: I was happy that you brought up universal health care, education, (something or other), and he cut in and said “and the energy bill”, and I said “Yeah! The energy bill!”

I was really impressed with Ned. And his family. His daughter even tugged at his arm to get his attention for me. Go Ned!

goodnite, lotus.

**delurk**

OT- just in case anyone is interested – conviction verdicts in the Chicago city hall hiring scandal (and verdicts came in just as Mayor Daley was headed for dinner with Bush). Not a complete victory for the prosecution, as some of the mail fraud charges were acquitted, but on balance I’d call it a success.

Fitzgerald did not give the presser after the verdicts –

story is front and center:
http://www.chicagotribune.com

**now back to my much more comfortable fdl lurking habitat**

Why don’t we just call them the innertubes? Please Sen. Stevens leave your patch kit at home.

BTW Senator Lieberman it’s snark not snarl.
Liesureman = Senator Nasty

rwcole–I tend to trust your judgment. Didn’t actually see the debate myself so probably shouldn’t comment. But I’m suspicious of the euphoria–too much of that around here sometimes. Interesting stuff on the local CT NBC channel discussion cited upthread. This one sounded pretty clear-eyed to me:

Where I come from-I despise Lieberman so much that I have changed my registration from unaffiliated (which I have been for 30 years) to Dem just to be able to vote in the upcoming primary.
My views on the debate-Lieberman was a far more effective debater, it seemed like he was channeling Ronald Reagan (he must have said “There you go again” at least a half dozen times) while also cloning George W’s famous “flip-flopper” characterization. But Lamont scored some telling points-CT ranking 49th out of 50 states in getting federal dollars speaks pretty poorly on Lieberman’s (and Dodd’s) effective use of their seniority and power. I resented Lieberman claiming-repeatedly-that it was due to HIS efforts that the Groton sub base didn’t close-how about the Governor, Dodd, the rest of the Congressional delegation, etc? Lamont, especially at the beginning, came across somewhat weak-he has to learn to look into the camera and relax. I admired him for finally stepping up and contesting Lieberman’s frequent interuptions with the great “we’re not on Fox News.” The moderator did a fine job of reading the questions, but was way too deferential to Lieberman-letting him get away with his frequent butting in, running on with his answers over time limits, etc.

Lieberman is a better debater but frankly I want a better man in the Senate. If Lieberman is not going to represent my interests and support my beliefs, I’m not going to vote for him. I’m electing a representative government, not a daddy who knows best for me.

And Joe, Lamont’s position on disclosing his old tax returns is a non-starter of a red herring issue.

Thanks much jjk.

Why don’t we just call them the innertubes? Please Sen. Stevens leave your patch kit at home.

On which we surf the world wide wet.

really, ned needs major sharpening mediawise, and quick. how can it be that he wasn’t fully ready – after all we’ve seen lo these many years – for every rove tactic?

this country and all human decency is doomed until we grasp this single imperative: put their asses on the defensive. Ned played on putz’s ground tonight. When the FUCK will we learn. They’re aggressively into “create reality” and we’re stupified at their arrogance. It’s been going on since stealing 2k and goes on and on. And still our side acts as if we’re still in a civilized political society. When the FUCK do we wake up to what’s going on here!

Also…I saw a woman that looked kindof like Jane at Tisane’s so I asked if she was Jane. (She was taking notes and talking to Ned.) Apparently she is a Courant reporter. Damn! I almost had a Jane-siting. On the other hand, I did meet ctkeith.

Joe’s whiniest moment was when he asked Ned if the latter was going to release his tax returns (like he, Joe, has), as if that was a legal requirement. Whatever he scored by embarassing Ned (if anything) he lost by his whininess.

Even when Joe does not intend to whine, he whines. It is in his nature and in his voice. The whole debate was one big WHINE for Joe, and on that score I think Ned came out with a bit of an edge.

thanks, jjk.

OT, but really strange and creepy,Putin’s got a “The Kiss” moment of his own:

Putin’s Kiss

From Stirling Newberry:

It was bipartisanship in the same sense the Brokeback marriages are bisexual.

HAHAHAHA!

egregious 7:35 pm — thanks for that, trying to populate it with links now so that anyone tripping on the site finds something positive.

Any other FirePups have an answer to the question Who Is Ned Lamont? they want to share? I could use the help until the blog gets picked up by somebody in CT.

OT, but really strange and creepy,Putin’s got a “The Kiss” moment of his own:

For some people it’s bald heads, for some people it’s little boys’ tummies…

I think Tom Curry’s reporting of the debate is more telling of the actual problems Progressives face than the actual debate was. (read it on MSNBC.com) Like we are all used to by now, he seems to be reporting things happening on another planet. His report seems to indicate that Lierberman won the debate. He mentions Lamont being a millionaire, but conveniently seems to forget about Lieberman’s wealth, etc.

Fortunately MSN has a poll there asking regular folk to say who they think won…and of course regular folk chose Lamont as the winner.

Progressives have to fight Republicans, Incumobrat-Democrats, and a press that has it’s own agenda and has abandoned objective reporting. It’s been depressing these last few years, but a Lamont Senate win will certainly start cheering me up hehe!

Christy, re: your comment on getting video of Lieberman’s behavior … 2:14 on spazeboy’s YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCvwjgtjVmQ

What did we do before YouTube? Go spazeboy, go!

My observation

In the MSNBC wrap-up, Noron while talking about the online poll, “analyzed” that the numbers so overwhemingly for Ned were because of the ‘Netroots’. MSNBC often has such polls after a story and I’ve never heard analysis of this kind. ALL of their polls are online, so millions of people watch but in this particular poll it was just US who were voting.

In doing this analysis she subtley undermines our growing power and effect to the masses that are listening. Very not cool.

I don’t fully disagree with her analysis but they don’t usually attribute MOTIVE to these online ‘unscientific’ polls. Her bias shows more and more everyday.

I haven’t listened to all Ned’s speeches, etc., but it seems to me that Joe is doing everything he can to make it seem like Ned is ONLY running against him because of Joe’s stance on the Iraq war:

Newsweek Interview with Lieberman – Pg 2

You’re not used to having tough primary challenges. Is this primary battle mainly about the war?

Totally. My opponent might try to say otherwise but there’s no question about it: He is running a one-issue campaign. And it takes any life it has from that one issue. I’m trying to say there’s a lot more issues than the war in Iraq, as important as it is, that are essential to Connecticut’s future, and look at my record on all of those and then make a judgment about my record. I’d even state it a little more starkly: If it was not for my position on the war in Iraq, I don’t believe there would be a primary against me. It’s not a surprise to me because I went through this in the presidential primaries. It’s something I feel very strongly about and it’s one where I think I’ve got to take a principled position and hope that people in the primary and in the state respect me for it and are wiling to judge me on my whole record even if they disagreed with me on Iraq.

What planet was it that this WATB living on again?

And this is priceless:

My nature is not to be an attacker. I’m a person of very strong opinions, but I’ve never believed that one helps make one’s case by attacking the target of one’s position.

This is just from page 2 – haven’t even made it to 3 yet.

Also, before I go to sleep, I want to mention that it is 7/7 in Britain, the anniversary of the bus bombings. The Beeb is doing a lot of coverage and it is a very significant event for our friends across the pond. There has been a lot of discussion about how to maintain the multicultural norm in Britain ( I heard one MP say he had 188 languages and dialects in his constituency!). I just wanted to leave a reminder that 50 people died that day and they are still dealing with it.

Blessings

zen

Dr BB, I did see the debate and I agree with the assessment in the block quote you provided.
I know HoJo’s bad for CT and bad for the country. If I were in CT, I’d vote for Ned knowing there’s going to be on-the-job training, which is the way it is with a lot of first term Senators. He’s going to need a very seasoned staff, because he will run into a lot of HoJo’s on the Hill.
IIRC, Ned flashed it when he talked about energy. He had a good grasp of the overall issues plus the ability to integrate that with salient facts.
We need some people in the Senate with a moral compass. Ned’s got it, HoJo doesn’t.

close bold, moderator, dear, big hug to you.

test

fyi– nbc 30 has the video up of the debate.

http://www.nbc30.com/index.html

YIKES! Sorry for all the bold – I couldn’t get the preview to work, and apparently missed a tag. :( Hope it doesn’t screw up the rest of the thread.

I watched the immediate aftermath of the debate on TIVO and Liberman’s behavior was perfectly professional. He shook Lamont’s hand when it was offered, shook hands and spoke to all 3 moderators in order. I don’t see where you guys are seeing anything “off” about that part. Did Kos tell us to say that or what?

Wow, Christy or *ilson or Trex, that was like lightning. The moderator is on fire tonight!

:::skulking off to corner now:::

HopeSpringsATurtle,

“I don’t fully disagree with her analysis but they don’t usually attribute MOTIVE to these online ‘unscientific’ polls. Her bias shows more and more everyday.”

They know damn well their polls are being “freeped”, I don’t see the big deal in mentioning it.

If anything, it undermines the validly of those polls which they use to sell advertising $$$$! ; )

Did that fix it?

Zen, Sleep well and hope you are feeling much better.

Thanks, cujo359, that did it.

Terre # 143 –

I closed it out for you.Actually you had to opening bolds in there and that kind of screwed it up LOL. No biggie.

If there’s a vote on comments using HTML here can I submit my ballot now in advance?

Vote: NO ; )

Actually, Rayne, Jamie appears to have fixed it first.

There’s a new thread for an old, ummm, friend …

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ck-bugman/

Two points:

1. Of all his achievements, Joe seemed to be the most proud of his work on pork and war.
2. Lamont needs to develop a second talking point on each issue. Lieberman is so vulnerable that each issue has multiple levels on which he deserves criticism. Lamont only seemed to make one point on each issue where he should either develop that point further or go on to related points regarding the same issue.

Late Nite is up. Spew warning.

Cozumel @ 8:35 pm (#152) – My vote would be in favor of HTML, but the moderators may have their own opinions.

Again goodnight thought: I thought rape g bush dicksucker came off way, way too well. Sixpack tv viewers are not us – tv murka notices only one thing: comforting reinforcing reptile tv imagery. Rape G was more poised and therefore commanding. Fuck issues. ISSUES DO NOT MATTER.

Can I say this again. “ISSUES”. DO. NOT. MATTER. WHATSOEVER. TV. PERCEPTION CRAP. ONLY THING. PERIOD.

The fuck, a goddamn piece of dogshit braindead monkey is our president!!! Will dems ever get a freakin clue of the ground we’re on! Surreal as fuck, yep all that – fucking FIGHT, FIGHT

Shorter Joe Lieberman:

Screw you guys, I’m going home!

BTW…I slept about 3 hours but I fear it will be another late night. Got my first phone call from Germany. Monday is the first CCAT mission to Iraq. Light the candles Sunday night gang…and thanks, really.

Big Hug to the Pups

Near the end of the debate Joe said something about Lamont polarizing the senate. High comedy.

All my best to you and your guy, HopeyTurtle. I hope the time flies like a cheetah ’til you’re reunited. {{{{{{{{Turtles}}}}}}}}

Ain’t it the truth Op? Ain’t it the truth. Thanks.

Ned -

Very well done. Loved the “Common Good before Common Ground” phrasing. Also the “that corner is a square” (re ‘turning the corner in Iraq’).

For me, the overriding impression left after the debate was: What a bastard Joe Lieberman is. There was one segment near the end, where he stands there, facing sideways to the camera, looking like the House of Lords solon that he is, as he expounds at length about the fact that he walks on water. It was really rather beyond belief – I repeatedly just wanted to slug him, to knock him off his high horse.

Can you imagine – equating the slaughter he unleashed and supports in Iraq with votes as a member of a town board of selectmen…?! It kind of calls out the fundamental idiocy of the false two-party frame this country is forced to endure. The real differences aren’t between “Republicans and Democrats” — they’re between arrogant authoritarians like Joe Lieberman, George Bush, and Chuck Schumer and principled, inclusive democracy-promoters like Ned Lamont, Russ Feingold and Howard Dean. [A two-party frame where the ‘courage of your convictions’ gets warped and ripped off to cover behavior that qualifies as the ‘courage of your connections’ to power - the sort of “courage” that Joe Lieberman never leaves behind.]

Ned should try to point out that difference in their approach to democracy before August (it actually fits in with Joe’s didain for the will of the primary voters – UNLESS they happen to end up supporting him, of course) — Ned would have done well by highlighting who LISTENS and who values (and will value) INPUT from constituents, during this debate. But Lieberman’s Independent run forced Lamont to focus first on party loyalty tonight, for good reason.

Also – this CRAP about enforcement of party loyalty ‘leading to defeat’ [how the mighty Republicans have fallen (NOT) with such an approach, huh Joe?]: When the OTHER SIDE is wholly united, as is the case now with the Republicans, finding “common ground” with the Republicans is called capitulation and facilitation of the OTHER SIDE’S AGENDA, to the complete detriment and sabotage (at least in this day and age) of any principles supposedly underlying the so-called Democratic Party [Hint, Joe: That’s where all the “partisanship” in Congress comes from - the Republicans - so why are you promoting a unilateral surrender by your party in response??]. It takes two to tango, but the Democrats have been doing all the dancing of late in the Senate, to the amusement and benefit of the RNC.

I thought the Iraq war back and forth at the beginning was very good for Ned. I admired the energy in all his answers — he was engaged and speaking from the heart. And he held back from reacting to Joe’s “Who IS he” crap admirably, since he had no real room to respond anyway.

Wow – the hard part’s over, Ned. Time to really get ready to rumble!

ok can i rant once more before bed & make it plain: country reptile brain. care nothing for reality. love simple ease delusion.

rove gets it. king of world. dems don’t get it. lost in pre-tv “thinking” world. karl continues and continues to chuckle and take candy from the baby of the world that fails to grasp him, with greatest of ease.

Thanks Jamie – I even had to back out of this post, refresh, and then come back in and say my thanks. Otherwise, it was still in bold. ??

orangejumpsuit 8:17

Whine on, Harvest Moon…

Not Fox, the Best !

Watched it, thought Lamont held his own, and think he’d be a great senator. The funniest part was Joe bragging about bringing home the pork and earmarking bills for Conn.

But I do wonder about the intensity of anger aimed at Joe here and in Kos.

Maybe I’m missing something, but it sure seems to me that Joe Lieberberman is not the real problem in Washington. In fact, he doesn’t even make the the top 50. Just my opinion.

So if it’s Schlesinger vs. Lieberman in November, then what do you do? Who do you support? Do you think the country is better off with another Republican seat in the Senate?

Joe Lieberman demanded that the HUD Office of Inspector General investigate HUD Sec. Jackson’s public statements that those who criticize Bush will not get HUD contracts (which is illegal).

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/…..ily29.html

Jackson said he did not want that money to be used to “campaign against Bush”. Pay for play at HUD. Jackson doesn’t even bother to attempt to be discreet about it!

What happened to the investigation – Karl Rove told Joe to drop it? Not even a tiny slap on the wrist, for treating HUD like a GOP campaign money slush fund?

Jackson CANNOT be allowed to get away with this scot free. He either fraudulently awarded HUD contracts, AND/or he threatened every potential contractor – suck up to Bush or I’ll make sure you don’t get HUD contracts. Gross fiscal mismanagement of tax dollars. Waste. Corruption. Absue of office.

HUD OIG’s web site states that government employees have a LEGAL obligation to report fraud and mismanagement. Does that obligate Joe to make sure there is an investigation?

Ghostman and Christy,
the handshake thing is really much bigger than it may seem.

I’m an old gal, but I remember when Ann Richards was running against Clayton Williams for Gov. of Tx. Clayton refused to shake Ann’s hand, and it was Huge.

This is not the behavior that a gentleman shows, and the Senate is a Gentleman’s (and Gentleladies) club that prides itself on it’s collegial courtesy.

release the hounds!

to comment on rwcole’s comments:

I don’t think that it is necessary or wise for a candidate to respond to EVERYTHING that the opponent says. Ned stood up for himself. He did not take the bait that HoJo offered each and every time.

I think that is is wise for our candidates to speak of our agenda and our message. To spend too much time responding to the Republican talking points is to give them the power to define the debate. This is Rove’s trap and I’m glad that we didn’t see too much of that. The Democrats, in general, have been too reactive and not proactive enough.

Christie, no time to read all 171 comments before mine, but here’s what I saw:

Lieberman starts to leave his podium.

Lamont sticks out his hand.

Joe has no choice but to shake it, but quickly moves past Lamont, becuase it appeared that he had no intention of treating Lamont as an equal.

Joe brushes past the moderator, PERHAPS nodding to her, on his way to shake a guy’s hand behind her.

Ned starts getting various greetings.

That’s the part that I saw.

Doesn’t that value only hold true so long as the Republicans retain a majority in Congress? Doesn’t his entire pitch undermine his claim to want to bring back a Democratic majority?

Emptywheel summed up my sense of Joe’s pitch: vote for me so that you have someone to cosy up to a GOP majority.

Why are you all picking on me for being so angry and aggressive? I mean, it’s not like I was debating Dick Cheney or any of my other BFFs. So cut me some slack.

Lieberman actually said “there you go again”? Ned could have crushed him then and there. “Joe, you’re not only Bush’s favorite Democrat, do you also think you’re Ronald Reagan?”

Rayne –

Whoever bought the domain, whoisnedlamont.com, is either a friend of Lamont, or on his staff. If you type that domain into your browser, it sends you Lamont’s homepage.

Savvy!

“Senator Lieberman stormed out of the debate early, barely answering questions from the local media”.

He had to rush back to Washington to continue the neo-con agenda.

Will Boxer, Obama, Biden, et. al. still be coming to CT to campaign for an angry, unrepentant neocon who says things like “There you go again”?

It is remarkable how quickly this juggernaut is collapsing. It gives me great hope that the rest of the Republican machine will fold as easily.

Maybe all we need to do is speak the truth firmly and consistently, look the voters in the eye and say “This is wrong, we will put an end to it.”

Way up top, lina asked:
“does anyone know what was yelled out in the audience during the debate that got both of their attention for a second?”

Watching on NBC30, the station appeared to accidentally launch a “News at 11″ preview; when after a few seconds the station retured to the debate, both gentlemen were looking straight out to the audience looking a bit confused.

renska 4:38 am — thanks much! Redshift 11:08am also caught that redirect, left me a comment in the next thread.

You guys are great! Absolutely dig being able to come back and find this kind of followup news from FirePups.

I am just glad that Lamont was able to bring up a lot of issues that are important to CT voters, such as jobs going overseas, etc. Lieberman was aggressive, making swinging attacks, pointing his finger. For me, it was just miserable to watch Lieberman. If I had any sympathy for Joey, I just lost it watching the debate. He was horrendous and I remember him being real nice with Dick Cheney during 2000.

Agh. It just occurred to me that another domain should be purchased and redirected: thereyougoagain.com — repointed to Lieberman’s site.

katgw (180). That was a hilarious sigh of relief. If I remember correctly a commercial was launched just as Joe was having a hot under the collar moment. Maybe the technicians were all getting nervous too.

I hate to say it. But since Lieberman’s attacks were pretty easy to predict, I wish Lamont was better coached.

TV viewers would have no idea how scared Joe is. And Ned should have drilled Joe on how Joe’s fear makes Joe drive in both lanes. That is more important to voters than not whether or not he is a Party hack.

I’m late on the thread (okay, way late).

Mrs. BC and I watched the debate on CSPAN and scored it about the same. Lieberman won on debating points, but looked bad doing it.

Lamont’s inexperience with the media showed in many ways. It’s not clear that it was a disadvantage to a candidate running as an outsider.

Holy Joe’s body language and demeanor were arrogant. It was as if he begrudged everything about the process. His failure to thank Lamont in his opening statement was a big mistake. Courtesy costs nothing and always pays dividends.

If it were a five round fight scored on a 10 point must system, I scored the first round (opening statements) to Lamont 10-8, the second round (Moderator questions) to HoJo 8-10, the third round (citizen questions, very badly produced IMO) even 10-10, fourth round (Candidate question) to HoJo 7-10, and the fifth round (Closers) to Lamont 10-9. So HoJo wins on my card, 45-47.

Lieberman won the debate based on the red-herring issue of Lamont’s tax returns. Unlike some other FDLers, I thought Lamont’s response was weak. He didn’t seem prepared on the issue and appeared a little flustered. Given that HoJo had released his returns, Lamont should have prepared for that attack. Mrs BC’s immediate response was, “What’s he hiding? That looks really bad.”

She was also unhappy with Lamont’s failure to cite specific actions. She felt he spoke in vague generalities and it made him appear to not know what he wants to do if elected.

So all in all, I chalk this up as a win for Lamont. He didn’t have to win the debate portion (though it would have been nice if he had), like the Preznit v. Gore, he only had to look like a reasonable alternative. He did much better than Bush did against Gore in 2000.

If I were a CT Democrat voter now, I’d be triangulating and trying to figure out which candidate can hold the seat in November and provide coattails long enough to pull in a couple of the D candidates running for R-held House seats. I don’t know the lay of the political land in CT well enough to figure that one out.

BC

Watching Joe use Republican debate tactics was somewhat puzzling, until the realization struck that he isn’t actually going for the Democratic Primary. No, he’s conceded that and is actually working on his Independent candidacy. It is impossible to square his performance with an affiliation to the Democratic party….saying and doing are two different things. Too many discordant signals…… he either isn’t self aware or thinks he can pull the wool over the voters’ eyes. If it’s the latter he’s really miscalculated.

I have to say I was surprised by Joe’s public tantrum. I had expected a more professional presentation. He came off as whiney, childish, angry and entitled. Every time he interrupted Ned he sunk further into GOP tactics-ville. Ned on the other had showed he cannot be intimidated with insults, name calling and high school cheap shots. Just what the American public needs to stand up to Jr and his cronies. When Ned said he will hold Jr and his buddies accountable- I BELIEVE HIM.