RJ Eskow has a very good piece on how Lieberman is attempting to save himself by hanging the Democrats out to dry, specifically with regard to characterizing Lamont supporters as motivated by "hate." (Lieberman told the NYT, "Once you start hating, you lose the ability to get anything done." How very practical.)
Says RJ:
That’s the bizarre yet strangely persistent spin point these days: that Lamont’s grassroots-backed campaign reflects "hate," rather than a disagreement on beliefs and policies. Ask yourself: When Hubert Humphrey bravely faced down Strom Thurmond and the Dixiecrats at the 1948 Democratic Convention, rejecting their segregationist policies, was that "hate"- or a desire to support Democrats whose positions and values reflected his own?
It’s absurd, of course: it’s the democratic process, not "hate." But pundits and Republicans will be using Lieberman’s words, and the "hate" meme – which for all we know was invented at the RNC – to pound the Democrats non-stop between now and November.
Here’s another Lieberman gift to the GOP, from the same Times article:
He added later that when he disagreed with his party, it was on the basis of principles. "I think that saying ‘you’ve got to be with us for everything’ is the road to defeat for any political party," he said.
Again, this is rank nonsense. People usually vote based on principles. What Lieberman and his supporters are betraying with these remarks is a hatred for both Democrats and democracy. But, once more, he’s providing great material for the Republicans – in this case, that the Democrats ‘rigidly’ enforce doctrine.
Providing great material for the GOP is not a new habit with Joe. He’s been treating his own party and its leadership with undisguised contempt for years. His attacks on Clinton about the Lewinsky matter were easier to take as authentic moral outrage, before he spent five sanguine years co-existing with Republican corruption and prevarication. (my emphasis)
RJ goes on to say that "if Lieberman’s re-elected as an independent, he’s showing every sign that he’ll turn Republican." I mean, does anybody have any doubt that this will be the way an egotistical, selfish churl like Lieberman would repay the Democrats who refuse to back him in his indy run? Because I really have a hard time imagining that he will do anything else.
(graphic by Dave C.)
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Fitz!
Roots!
Apparently, the Senator is a hugger, not a hater. — Tim
Mr. Lieberman responded to all of this by passing out chocolate Kisses, telling volunteers to “give a kiss” to anyone who jeered at him. He said the shouts were a sign of “too much hate in our politics.”
“It’s dividing our country and it’s making it harder for our government to get anything done for the people who send us there,” he said. “I’d rather be a hugger than a hater.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..ref=slogin
Tim
That graphic is hilarious.
Ned!
Seeing Lieberman’s bad sense of everything on display, I’d bet he’d declare himself a Republican just at the moment they lose control of Congress.
As funny as that would be, I’d rather see Ned Lamont take his seat. I still want to see the House and Senate switch to Democratic control. By as wide a margin as possible.
Angie!
CNN – Israel/Gaza crisis escalating
Scheuer and Drumheller on Hardballs to talk about shutting down the hunt for the tall one.
the chances are good Boxer, Biden and Salazar promised months ago to campaign for Colleague Joe — their staffs now know the mess their bosses are wading into. Twil be fun to see how enthusiastic their support of Cut’n Run Joe is nowadays …
Garance Franke-Ruta has a characteristically muddled but interesting post on Tapped (here) suggesting Lamont should start prepping now for GOP attacks on his “radicalism” should he win the primary.
Big guffaw. Lieberman’s current attacks are that very thing; in my tinfoil-hat moments, I swear I can hear Rove dishing out Holy Joe’s talking points.
In any case, Lamont looks pretty damn capable of deflecting it all for what it is: sound and fury, signifying the usual nothing. He’s got my donations, and my support – as much for what he symbolizes as for who he is.
Jane, the “RJEskow” link in your article leads to the Wordpress login page for Firedoglake.
It seems that Alfred E Newman can be used with any republican superimposed on the face. They all look like they belong there.
We don’t hate you Joe. We just want you to go away.
*ilson,
The AP just reported that Boxer, Biden and Salazar will come to CT and campaign for Joe:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..12,00.html
WASHINGTON (AP) – Embattled Democratic Sen. Joe Lieberman is getting a little help from his Senate friends as he tries to fend off an anti-Iraq war challenger in an intraparty fight.
Sens. Joe Biden of Delaware, Barbara Boxer of California and Ken Salazar of Colorado plan to campaign in Connecticut for Lieberman between now and the Aug. 8 primary. Their goal is to reassure the party faithful of the three-term senator’s loyalty to Democratic causes, including women’s issues, labor and the environment.
I usually agree with RJ, but the assertion that people usually vote on principle is a little strong. If that were true, GWB wouldn’t be in office.
People vote on personality and perceived character, from what I’ve seen.
What? Me Worry?
Everyone is always giving updates about what is on CNN, etc.
I might have to buy T.V. one of these days. ; )
Boxer?
Uh oh.
Oil hits $75 per barrel. DOW hits the skids. Things are getting plenty fucked up in this country. NPR was doing an interview on “Fresh Air” about Addington- criminal in chief. Un-fucking-believable what GW Clusterfuck has allowed Cheney and Addington to do- completely on their own and unaided by the cabinet. We’ve got a fuckin mess and by the time GW Clusterfuck finally waltzes out of the White House- this country may be beyond repair.
Wouldn’t Shumer, Biden and Boxer talk Joe out of running as an independent if it meant hurting the democratic party’s chances of taking a majority?
EPU’d but relevant to “Hojo” (Holy Joe) discussion:
Biden, Boxer and Salazar?
They certainly have the right to come to CT to campaign for Joementum before the primary.
But hopefully every way they turn they will get hammered with the same question – will you still support Joe as an independent after he loses the primary? If they won’t answer one way or the other, keep pounding away with variations on the same question.
Also, they need to be asked why they support a Democrat who is so uncommitted to his own party that he is willing to run as an independent AGAINST his party if necessary to selfishly hold onto his senate seat?
We could also pose the following hypothetical to them:
Would it be reasonable for the next Democratic challenger to Boxer, Salazar or Biden to run as a Democrat in the primary against them, lose, and then continue to run as an independent? Isn’t this fundamentally unfair, unprincipled and at odds with the health of the Democratic party?
shooogarp – we do it so you don’t have to ;)
Bravo on the graphic!!!
And he’ll fit in with the crowd in charge in the Republican party when he does switch. If there ever was a group that was all ego and little else, it’s what’s in White House now.
It’s almost like a perverse fairy tale with that kiss turning Joe into the toxic slime that he’s becoming. I guess considering the lips that touched his, it’s no wonder.
Boxer? Are you freakin kidding me? Women’s issues??????? This has got to stop! Have they learned nothing?
ilson @ #10:
Boxer BETTER NOT campaign for Lieberman.
I was there when we interviewed her at Yearly KOS and I think given their years together in the Senate, she sincerely felt she needed to support him. Watching Joe in action this weekend, I can guess she’s feeling abit betrayed. All she needs is a push from her folks in my state.
She’s about to get a communique from a constituent…
twolf1-23
Could you check and see what’s on Animal Planet right now?
….one of the few channels I truly miss.
Joe Leaverman is a putz.
dems see a train wreck developing in Connecticut. If Ol Joe loses the primary and loses the general- no problem. On the other hand, if he loses the primary and wins the general- there is no guarantee that he’ll vote for dem leadership- or what the price might be for that vote. Guess the dems are trying to lay off some risk.
shooogarp – animal planet:
The Jeff Corwin Experience: Mexico: The Great Snake Hunt (Animals) Jeff milks venomous snakes in order to help laboratories to produce antivenin. TV-G CC
Lieberman is just a Blue Dog Democrat. There’s a lot of them in my party. And the DLC is about as blue doggish as you can get. As for the ‘down-home’ variety of Dixiecrats, they’ve pretty much migrated downward to the Republican party via the fundies. Blue Dogs are pretty much just an educated and sophisticated brand of Dixies who haven’t the courage or adequate political incentive (bribes) to make the switch. Yet.
To follow up on my prior post,
In other words, Biden, Boxer and Salazar can be neutralized by hammering them with questions about Joe that they cannot answer without looking like they support his shoddy treatment of his own party.
In fact, if we hammer Biden, Boxer and Salazar with these questions right now via email and calls, they may reconsider visiting CT in the first place. They don’t want to get branded as disloyal Democrats for supporting a disloyal Democrat, do they?
Who would want to campaign for a turncoat and get permanently smeared with his weasily residue?
The ONLY reason I do not believe Lieberman will turn republican in fact is because rove needs him to stay dem to cover all of their ‘bipartisianship’ crap. He will vote repub, but always be chiding the dems. It is his role and he is paid veeeery well for it.
But I do worry about big money wanting to cover the republicans on this and give money to Joe as an independent.
twolf1 – 30
Awhh. I love! that snake vemon milking shit! Crap.
Any rabid venomous lambs on later today?
I’m inclined to agree with emptywheel that a re-elected Lieberman would remain a Democrat (if in name only) because his power in the Republican Senate comes from his being a Democrat who supports Republican positions and undermines his own party. As a Republican, he’d be fairly liberal on most matters and they’d have no reason to give him anything.
Alternatively, think of it as another version of Rove’s “50% 1″ strategy — they don’t need another vote for majority leader.
Unless, of course, they lose the Senate by one seat. Then I’d be really worried about Joe. He’d probably stay a Democrat, but no one could pressure him over any of his appalling positions, for fear he’d bolt.
Yet another reason to get Lamont elected.
rwcole @ 2:25 pm (#29) – Unfortunately, you’re probably right here. The sad part is that even with a “Democratic” Holy Joe in the Senate, Democratic control of the Senate would be largely illusory. Still, a tenth of a loaf is better than none at all, I suppose.
Gah! Drinking Liberally tomorrow is at the same exact time as the Lieberman/Lamont debate. I am so torn!!
Links for Biden, Salazar, and Boxer where I can fax the questions:
“Will you still support Joe as an independent after he loses the primary?”
“Why do you support a Democrat who is so uncommitted to his own party that he is willing to run as an independent AGAINST his party if necessary to selfishly hold onto his senate seat?”
-thanks wxyz
LindaR — can you see if the hosting venue has CSPAN on feed so everyone can drink liberal while watching the debate?
Heck, tell the bar they could make a mint if they were to encourage a drinking game; everybody buys a shot each time Lieberman whines how he’s his own man and not George Bush.
actually, sheep are used in making antidote for snake bites. small amounts of that milked venom is injected into sheep and the antibodies they produce massively are later harvested to produce that snake bite antidote !
All those defense contractors in CT — oof, think of how they’re gonna shell out for their Joey.
hmmmm–noron said that msnbc will cover the debate tomorrow nite.
LindaR– why don’t y’all meet at a place that has teevee so you can all watch it together and celebrate the undoing of Joe.
Scheuer says that the tall one wants to use a nucular weapon inside the US. He also says he doesn’t think the preznit knew of the CIA shutting down the hunt, cause it would look bad and the tall one is far more dangerous than N. Korea and Iran. (fact– alec station was named after scheuer’s son)
Drumheller says he hopes it ain’t so.
Even if the DSCC doesn’t send greenback love to Ned after he wins the primary, it will be okay — so long as they support him.
Congrats on 14,000,000 site visits!
Political Animal Planet:
The David Brooks Experience: Mexico: The Great Lamb Hunt (Animals) David milks venomous lambs in order to help laboratories to produce anti-rabies treatments (or so he claims.) Hilarity ensues. TV-G CC
I just read that C-Span is supposed to carry the Lamont Lieberman debate live.
an egotistical, selfish churl like Lieberman
more Lloyd Bentsen:
“I knew Wince-dumb Churlchill, Senator, and you are a Wince-dumb Churlchill.”
Joe must not be appeased.
Rayne and angie —
That would be fun if there is a teevee there. Leslie in CA probably knows. But as far as the drinking game, we’d probably all get picked up with DUIs afterwards!
Cujo
Dem control of the senate is the only potential antidote to disease that will encompass this nation in the event of the death of a moderate or liberal Supreme Court justice. Of course a lot of dems would vote for confirmation in any event- but if the dems control the judiciary committee- a Clusterfuck nominee in the mold of Alito shouldn’t ever get out of judiciary and go to the floor for a vote.
If goopers continue to control the senate- there will be no stopping Clusterfuck- he will nominate a “conservative” and they will make it through.
OK, all you Lay-ain’t-(naturally)-(dead) theorists, the Aspen coroner is about to announce autopsy results — THAT was fast. On CNN ’twas, I just saw this but didn’t hear when.
Norah O’Donell: “The North Korean missile went limp after about 40 seconds”
My back’s to the TV but did I hear that right? MISSLE, LIMP?
bwahahaha
*ilson – 40
Serious?
OT – confusion on Wikipedia over Ken Lay’s death:
At 10:08, it said he died at his Aspen, Colorado home “of an apparent [[heart attack] or suicide.].”
Within the same minute, it said the cause of death was “yet to be determined.”
At 10:09 a.m., it said “no further details have been officially released” about the death.
Two minutes later, it said: “The guilt of ruining so many lives finally [sic] led him to his suicide.”
At 10.12 a.m., this was replaced by: “According to Lay’s pastor the cause was a ‘massive coronary’ heart attack.”
By 10:39 a.m., Lay’s entry said: “Speculation as to the cause of the heart attack lead many people to believe it was due to the amount of stress put on him by the Enron trial.” This statement was later dropped.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/new…..mp;src=rss
the MA Roots Debate Party is at my house.
Couldn’t find cocktail weenies at BJ’s. we’ll have to settle for wings and steak tips.
Always better watching with friends.
Also I saw my first “Re-Elect Gore” bumper sticker on a car today!! I want one.
i didnt want to bring up the rabies vaccine at the same time. sheep (in addition to horses) are exposed to weak rabies and the resulting antibodies are harvested to make rabies vaccine.
yes — quasi-rabid lambs are socially beneficial !
Wonder if No-MoJoe has gotten back to that district chair who’d been waiting for an answer to their invitation to appear since February?
Cozumel -
Are you sure Norah wasn’t reporting on Rush’s vacation?
Upon what principles did Lieberman base his shiftiness on Alito, bankruptcy bill, social security, and his delusional fantasy status reports on situation in Iraq? I never heard them. Lieberman showed no sign of having a workable and fair plan or vision for social security than Bush did. That dog don’t hunt. In fact, that dog is in very criical condition on these issues. In fact, I never ever saw that dog take a breath pver the last two or three years, so I am going on faith and charity that there has been a functioning live dog recently.
I have been very reluctantly sending Lamont money against all my political instincts to get one chamber at all costs, out of sorrow, not hatred. Lamont is too good a potential Senator to pass up. And Lieberman has drifted very far from his days as a real Democrat who did once act on principles, and does not even show any awareness now at all of how far he has moved from what he was when he first came to the Senate. So reluctantly, I decided that Lieberman was a liability to the party. Very close call for me, but I made it, and Lamon gets a few $ from me. Now, if Lieberman never had any principles, perhaps he could get away with some of his current act, but he did once, doesn’t now -at least none that he seems willing to explain.
Perhaps that is something he can do. He might not be in the fix he is if he tried to explain in plain English why he took the recent course that he did. Can he? Sometimes incumbants do that, you know, explain why they do what they do.
angie at 42:
Scheuer says that the tall one wants to use a nucular weapon inside the US. He also says he doesn’t think the preznit knew of the CIA shutting down the hunt, cause it would look bad and the tall one is far more dangerous than N. Korea and Iran. (fact — alec station was named after scheuer’s son)
Scheuer always seems to believe that Bush “didn’t know” about embarassing things; this isn’t the first time. The man has to learn that when you’re in charge, not being told doesn’t mean you’re not responsible. While I disagree with many of the methods he advocates, Scheuer does genuinely care about national security; I wish he’d understand that he’s not serving it by letting Bush off the hook for his administration’s screwups.
Cozumel 51 – well, their missile name ends with the four letters ‘dong’ so what do you expect?
OT: no soccer spoiler, but (ahem) I know what I’ll be watching on Sunday.
agree totally, Redshift. I rolled my eyes yet again when he said it– w is the CEO and Commander in Chief and the buck stops there.
“well, their missile name ends with the four letters ‘dong’ so what do you expect?”
LOL Well, great. My satellite just went out (storm cell). Grrrr…
punaise #61:
Sounds kinda 1940-ish, no?
He would change parties if it meant the majority for the repugs!
But as I said I think he will cost the Democrats the senate seat in CT. He is handing a great opportunity to the repugs and their best chance for a pickup in 06! And the NRC must be dancing and high fiving. I bet they would dump 10 million or more into this race.
Ken Lay coroner presser – coronary artery disease
rwcole @ 2:40 pm (#49) – Even that scenario strikes me as unlikely. It would require a sort of party discipline that the Democrats have rarely displayed. Admittedly, a small chance is better than none, but it’s not better by very much.
“coronary artery disease” is what the coroner says it was officially …
al-Scooter: yep
Lieberman’s biggest gift to the GOP is his willingness to leverage his name recognition to split the Connecticut Democratic vote, probably handing his senate seat to the repugs. For that he should be excommunicated from the party.
Wes–
They all have Potomac Fever. They all think, ya know if I play my cards right, someday I’ll be president.
Their peers are the people here in Wa$hington, not the folks back home. Darn that would have worked better if I had a ‘cent’ key.
Redshift says
July 5th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
angie at 42:
Scheuer says that the tall one wants to use a nucular weapon inside the US. He also says he doesn’t think the preznit knew of the CIA shutting down the hunt, cause it would look bad and the tall one is far more dangerous than N. Korea and Iran. (fact — alec station was named after scheuer’s son)
Scheuer always seems to believe that Bush “didn’t know” about embarassing things; this isn’t the first time. The man has to learn that when you’re in charge, not being told doesn’t mean you’re not responsible. While I disagree with many of the methods he advocates, Scheuer does genuinely care about national security; I wish he’d understand that he’s not serving it by letting Bush off the hook for his administration’s screwups.
———————————————————-
Perhaps it’s just me, but I think that the status of the Osama bin Laden investigation is something that the President should occasionally be briefed on.
*ilson – You should have a show on Animal Planet.
The Joe Lieberman Experience: Conneticut: The Great Democrat Hunt (Self Centered Politicians) Joe searches for a Democrat and despite staring in the mirror for hours, can’t find one. TV-MA (for weasely behaviour, and general sleaziness) CC
If CAD got Kenny-Boy, then two things are likely true: the trial got to him to some degree, and he ignored some of the symptoms.
If he’d been in to see his doc, he would have been stress-tested immediately, had an angiogram shortly after that, and stents or bypasses post-haste.
BC
Hilary Rosen says this is about Lieberman saying it’s me, me, me.
She hits him on all burners.
In case there’s anyone else who was having trouble finding that RJ Eskow column, I think this is it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..24389.html
RE: The Joe Lieberman Experience: Conneticut: The Great Democrat Hunt (Self Centered Politicians) Joe searches for a Democrat and despite staring in the mirror for hours, can’t find one. TV-MA (for weasely behaviour, and general sleaziness) CC
…narrated by Zell Miller and Ted Stevens
EPU’d on the last thread:
i wonder what nancy grace would have to say about the rape and murder of a 14 year-old child? of course, caBAL news network, “the voice of truth” (so long it’s a bushreich talking point) isn’t gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole.
if the shreaking harridan had any real substance or honest interest in the pursuit of justice, she’d be screaming bloody murder and working her days off to get the disgusting mother fuckers who are responsible for this dispicable horrendous murder. but i’d bet 500 to 1 it’s never gonna happen.
no good for the time/warner bottom line. parsons says no…. we know the drill. drag out another white-trash blonde on the run with a trailerpark parolee sex offender. that’s what america really cares about. the “i’ve been everywhere, man” people will sponsor the whole fucking hour.
So when Boxer, Schumer, et al campaign for Joe in the primary they are de facto campaigning AGAINST Lamont, who would be a great senator. I think it’s disgusting.
Cujo- wouldn’t require great party discipline- would only require a majority leader with the will to pack the judiciary with dem senators willing to vote “NO” on each and every “conservative” nominee. Would have to be all senators with VERY secure seats. Could easily be done. Might require pissing off some of the existing senators on that committee- but that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
Joe is mortgaging his future; he made the mistake of not putting funds in Eskrow.
a cent sign? like this ¢ ?
Would Zell’s spitle come through on the narration?
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.”
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01
“I want justice…There’s an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive,’”
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI
“…Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he’s maybe in control of a cave. He’s on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we’re going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that’s what’s happening. He’s on the run, if he’s running at all. So we don’t know whether he’s in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open — we just don’t know….”
- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,
The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
“I am truly not that concerned about him.”
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden’s whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)
http://www.buzzflash.com/contr…..Laden.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wonder what he has to say now…
Lieberman already is a Republican.
“Having it both ways” is the best thing Lamont can keep tagging him with.
How can this be a one-issue campaign if Lamont is far to the left? You can’t have it both ways, Joe.
If it is just about Iraq, why shouldn’t Lamont run on that? Why shouldn’t someone who thinks you are wrong (like most everybody) vote for a candidate who is offering an alternative on that one issue? Why would that be hate?
If it’s not just about Iraq (and it isn’t), why are you saying it is, Joe?
Oops, Boxer, Biden and Salazar. I guess I can leave Schumer out of this one, for now.
looks like my call to Boxer this morning really did the trick, eh?
noron the moron interviews Cindy Sheehan. she accuses cindy of trashing the preznit. she calls her hunger strike a publicity stunt.
Punaise, you’re powerful. :)
Lieberman is Zell Miller without the engaging personality.
I love that graphic.
I’m probably gonna get pounded for this but:
I think the hershey’s kisses thing is actually far more witty than I would have expected from joe the whiner.
Glory, how I hate the sound of that man’s nasal drone!
Boxer and the rest have been given a great opportunity to recuse themselves from the promise to campain for Lieberman, now that he’s hedging his bets by gathering signatures for an independent run.
He’s changed the terms so why can’t they? I have to assume they think Joe is doing a heck of a job. Again, who are these people???
Ack, time for a beach walk… my blood pressure is rising. :)
BC, probably not just the trial but everything from the bankruptcy on. His “Daddy of All Houston” ego must have taken every day of these years of ignominy very hard — until finally it stopped his heart cold. Not a man to listen to anybody, including MDs or JDs, that one.
this is a bit off topic, and i know you guys name her norbot but maybe screechbot would have been closer to the mark.
more on topic, i really resent this anti war canidate meme, (label for lamont). being against the iraq war is not necessarily anti war, it’s just being against misguided fucked up foreign policy, which many much smarter than me have called the greatest foreign policy misadventure in our history. i think they are right.
hey all — ot:
Charlie Brown, who is running against John Doolittle in CA-04, has a diary up at dkos. If anyone is so inclined, he could use some recommends.
I hope Connecticut Democrats make Boxer, Schumer,et al. feel very unwelcome.
I don’t hate Joe Lieberman. I wish him a very long and happy retirement
Lotus,
Yeah, you’re probably right. I don’t have that sort of ego, and I see experts for advice just as people in need of my expertise seek my advice.
I know what would have happened to Kenny-Boy, b/c about five years ago I was having chest pains. At the urging of a colleague I went to the hospital ER. Walking in to see the triage nurse and being a middle-aged male with some pallor complaining of chest pain causes things to happen now.
My EKG and cardiac enzymes all checked out okay, I got the stress test the next day and passed it just fine. But my doctor told me what the next steps were, in case I didn’t pass the stress test.
Turned out to be a gastric ulcer. Antibiotics and Tagamet for three weeks and I was fine.
BC
I’m not at all suprised at Biden and Salazar touting for Joe. They’re close to the same M.O., just quieter about it. I have to admit, Boxer does surprise me. Why are they out, in effect, campaigning against another Democrat?
My e-mail to Boxer:
“Senator Boxer:
I was at the Yearly KOS convention in Las Vegas earlier in June, and was there as part of the media group who interviewed you after your stirring speech before the convention assembly. When asked about whether you would support Joe Lieberman in the CT primary, your answer showed your support was unwavering.
I don’t question your collegial loyalty in making that choice at the time, but consider the facts NOW. Senator Lieberman is willing to forgo decorum and statesmanship by not promising to support the Democratic primary winner, regardless of who that is, and instead plans to run as an “Independent Democrat”. He stands beside Republicans in their election campaigns in the state. He embraces an unpopular stance with the Bush Administration to perpetuate the war in Iraq.
Finally, as a woman, his stand in denying Plan B for rape victims is disturbing, insulting, and goes against the most humane principles for which Plan B was designed. His intention to remain on the CT ballot regardless of the primary results seriously jeopardizes the chances for the Democrats to regain control of the House.
At that moment in the media room at Yearly Kos, I was shocked but actually felt your loyalty for Senator Lieberman was sincerely founded on years of working experience in the Senate. But why give loyalty to someone who would literally upend the very principles by which we elected YOU for?
Your loyalty is admirable. But by every account for party, and most especially for principle, he isn’t worthy of it.”
People vote according to whichever of Maslow’s hierarchy of psychological needs is being triggered; Political candidates are not different from any other “product” that you are sold.
Chimpy “won” based on safety, the most basic of hierarchical needs.
Although repugs heavily use membership – hierarchical need #2. Think of repug “membership” in terms of exclusion – all the things they are not – godless, poor, unhealthy, brown, etc., etc. That is where the identity in identity politics comes in – it is really “membership” politics. Repugs also use the #4 need, status, although it is not as powerful as membership since it is harder to sell to people who don’t actually have status – membership by exclusion is easy – big tent my ass.
Do people vote based on “principal”? I’m sure some do, and that would fit into the #3 hierarchical need – self esteem. I don’t think many people really do, but I am sure some do.
The selling of candidates is no different than selling ANY other product – remember that.
The Mad Rabbi (and I will make another plea for my graphic to appear some day soon – hint, hint, hint – you know who you are) in CT confuses his own lack of self esteem with the #4 need – status; i.e. his “self esteem” is based upon his status as a Senator. And, as one would guess, self esteem must come from oneself, not from others. In Mad Rabbi speak, this means that for voters to have self esteem – that is, be principled – they have to vote for Joe, although what he means is that he has no self esteem and just really really really likes his status as a Senator cause he has nothing else.
Sure, its inane and faulty logic, but it’s his.
Maslow was a very smart man.
Good, BC, I’m glad to hear that.
On the main topic: I just can’t believe those three fools are still determined to hit CT for HoJo. I do, however, believe Ned will pin ALL their ears back for ‘em tomorrow night. Hope they every one strangle on their own flopsweat — along with any other DC Dem who’s contemplating a similar move.
Can I bring out a nice piece of strategery in the oust-Lieberman campaign? Because it’s germane to what rwcole’s getting at. For a long time I thought the only way to stop a SCOTUS nightmare was Democratic control of the Senate. This is not quite true.
A Democratic filibuster can do the same job, albeit messily. Right now, that won’t happen because of the Gang of 14.
However, if Joe loses, the remaining six D’s will no longer be bound by the agreement. They will have serious second thoughts about renegotiating if they see Joe go down for it. (This is one reason it’s crucial to break the MSM message that this is only about the war.)
As 48 Democratic Senators doesn’t seem at all unlikely, we’d only need to find a handful (e.g. three) Republicans who won’t go along with the nuclear option. Given what played out last time, this may not be that hard. And then Harry has seven votes to spare for cloture. Messy, but possible. (Yes, it requires an unlikely level of cohesion; but solid Senate gains in November, if coupled with capture of the House, and undeniable threat to RvW, just might give Dem leadership some carrots and sticks to enforce cohesion. )
Obviously, the best choice is to win in November with 51 (D) Senators and to kill wacky SCOTUS appointments in the judiciary. But beating Joe is our insurance policy :)
I don’t hate Joe Lieberman, but I detest what he’s trying to do to the Democratic Party.
I’d have no problem with colleagues campaigning for a straight “up or down vote” incumbent, but that’s not the case here.
I for one intend to watch that debate live.
Mrs. BC had a soft spot for Lieberman after his VP run with Gore. But after the stuff he has pulled in the last two years, she says he needs to be gone. She said last week that she can’t believe the stuff he’s done … voting for Alito, voting for the so-called Patriot Act, supporting Bush’s adventure in Iraq …
BC
RWCole@20-you are so right. I just finished the New Yorker article about Addington, and it’s almost surreal. You read some of these political thrillers about guys who are unelected and espouse extreme positions, and you think ” nice novel, but can’t happen here.” Bullshit! You have someone accountable to no one, who has the ear of someone on the levers of power, and bingo, a clusterfuck. Addington is one scary dude.
I’m curious about Jane’s observations on the ground about Ned and Joe-what are the clueless, or fairly clueless masses saying in CT. Sometimes we drink our own Koolaid in the blogosphere and need to take a reality check now and again.
Was Sen. Boxer listening to any of us who e-mailed her after YKOS? We deserve an explination.
Professor Foland @ 3:13 pm (#103) – I think this has a chance of working, for one because, as you say, the deal is null and void, and second, because the remaining six Democrats will need to get themselves re-elected eventually, and if Lieberman loses that will be instructive.
…it’s germane to what rwcole’s getting at.
Germane lost to Itale yesterday.
Actually, Twisted there are accountability moments: they happen every four years. It’s unfortunate, but not nearly enough people caught Bush’s explanation of the Presidency. Paraphrasing (because I’m too lazy to look it up), he said that the nice thing about being President was that he didn’t have to explain things to anyone, but everyone had to explain themselves and their actions to him.
That’s not a President, that’s a King. But we let the useless b&st&rd slide on it. My dad told me when I was a youngster that you’re known by the company you keep. I believe that’s true, and look whose company the Preznit keeps: Kenny-Boy Lay, Darth Cheney, John Yoo, David Addington…
Jesus wept.
BC
Prof. Foland
I like what you have to say a lot. My concern is that most of the other 6 dems are from decidedly not true blue states and I don’t know to what degree the CT story will translate to their circumstances or what message they will get from it.
Never the less, the gang of 14 is, for all intents and purposes, null and void. Things have changed greatly since that dreadful deal was struck.
wxyz, I really liked your “HoJo.”
I understand your etymology, “Holy Joe,” but I thought “whore-Joe” worked too.
Whoa now. Prof. Foland’s scenario is very attractive — but it hinges on our beating HoJo and all his rich and scurvy allies. We better be focused and working and fighting for this One. Day. At. A. Time.
That picture makes me laugh out loud every time I see it. Mwahahahaha.
BTW, Jeff Greenfield was on Imus this AM talking about HoJo and the “net roots.” According to Greenfield, we all have lots of money. I for one was thrilled to learn this.
That picture makes me laugh out loud every time I see it. Mwahahahaha.
“What? me, scurry?”
Right, John Casper, so we always pronounce it “Ho, Jo.”
Long time lurker here.
I’m one of Senator Boxer’s constituents. I just got off the phone with one of the staffers at the San Francisco office after asking two questions:
1. Is the AP article accurate?
“I believe so.”
2. If Senator Lieberman loses in the Democratic primary on August 8th will Senator Boxer support him in his run as an Independant or will she support the Democratic nominee?
“I do not know the answer to that.”
She said that she would pass along my concerns to the Senator. I told her that I was curious in finding out if Senator Boxer would support the will of the Connecticut voters or Senator Lieberman.
Has anybody been keeping an eye on Lieberman’s website, to see if he quietly takes down crap that praises Bush? At one point, he praises Bush on homeland security. Stuff like that.
Hey, what is the format of the debate? Anybody know?
I don’t understand what Scheuer meant – how could the President NOT know the unit was closed. Doesn’t he get regular briefings from it?
*ilson 40 – I knew they did that with horses, but didn’t know they did it with sheep. They seem and small animal to take that risk.
Lieberman said:
“Once you start hating, you lose the ability to get anything done.”
Lieberman should have said:
“Once you start a war, you lose the ability to get anything done.”
If Joe using the “hate” card doesn’t shout republican, I’ll eat my hat.
“Once you start a war, you lose the ability to get anything done.”
Someone should tell
LeavermanHo,Jo that it didn’t affect Osama, the Ku Klux Klan, or Hitler to name just a few.Bargain@111-Unfortunately, the Republicans show incompetance in everything but marketing themselves. Holy Joe is doing what all good Gambinos do-demonize, distract, deflect, demagogue. I get somewhat encouraged when I see 35% poll ratings despite the best efforts of the mighty Wurlitzer. Someone like Addington is on the radar for political junkies like us, but for Joe Lunchbucket, he couldn’t give a shit. Because there is no one relating Addington’s actions to how it affects Joe’s life. Or his kid’s life. Dems are about logic and rationality, Gambinos are about emotion-emotion wins every time. GRRRRRR!
Mary,
They also use goats. I got my book money for college one summer inoculating and bleeding goats for antisera. ’twas an interesting PT job.
BC
You’re right about that, Twisted Martini 124 — so we better start beating the Bushes to more Joe-Lunchbucket speakers (a la John Edwards).
On elections and emotion.
Did anyone catch the Colbert “Word” a ways back where his Mind is telling him Bush is wrong, but his Gut is telling him Bush is right?
After a torturous moment of incongruity Colbert’s Mind strikes a ingenious explaination. Bush is Omnipotent! He is right, even when he is wrong!
(sorry Evil Parallel Universe)
This piece on Colbert was so on the mark. Instead of examining the facts and finding Bush lying and incompetent, a LOT of people just make a leap of faith…Bush is right!
OfT, fwiw
“I failed to recognize that you had joined the Hamsher School of Blogging.”
I just pulled this off emptywheel’s latest thread, it was in a comment aimed at emptywheel.
Suggestion of theme music for Ho,Jo threads here in FDLand. From UB40
There`s a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna do?
There`s a rat in me kitchen what am I gonna go?
I`m gonna fix that rat thats what I`m gonna do,
I`m gonna fix that rat.
When you open your mouth you don`t talk, you shout
And you give every body the blame,
But when they catch you up,
They will shut you up
And you got no one to blame
When you out on the street,
You practice lies and deceipt
And you scandalize my name
But when I catch you up
I`m gonna pull you up
I`m gonna check-out inside your brain
Snip
TM -
No question about it. The best you could hope for if you asked a randomly selected voter, “Who is David Addington?” would be something like this:
“Addington? Addington? Didn’t Kennedy have his disease or something?”
and the more likely response is, “Huh? Is he the Prime Minister of Dirkdirkistan?”
The accountability moment comes when we have to vote for asshats like Bush who listen to cryptofascists like Addington. Actually, in the case of GW Clusterfuck, it’s more likely that he’s listening to Cheney who’s listening to Addington, but still the principle applies.
Franklin said it best: those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither. And I might add, will eventually lose the liberty and the choice between them.
BC
Dems must speak to the gut. Had enough? Definitely works. I also like playing on I would like the Congress to find the NINE BILLION American dollars missing in Iraq so we can spend it on our communities!
Shooogarp – so we can spend it on armor and training and get the fuck home safe ans soon.
new Jane; “HELP@#$%^&*”
Read an analysis on how the Lieberman v. Lamont race is being incorporated into Karl Rove’s midterm election strategy…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
Shoogarp — Your Animal Planet update, strangely a propos: Now showing, Most Extreme, with an episode entitled “Cheats.” All about animals that use deception for hunting and reproduction strategies. The synopsis doesn’t say whether the program will also cover animals running for office pretending to be Democrats. However, the featured critter is an alligator snapping turtle, noted for luring its prey by the fraudulent color at the end of its tongue, and that sure sounds like someone we know.
new thread
http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/05/heelllppp/
I am a Boxer constituent. I just called her office in Sacramento. The very nice person who answered said they are keeping track of pro and anti HoJo (not her name for the guy, ha). So I said I loved Boxer but I was very much against Joe Lieberman and hoped my senator would not support him if he loses the primary.
Rev Deb 54 – Re-Elect Gore bumper sticker – if you can’t find one let me know and I’ll make you a hand-made one & send it along.
While waiting at DMV today a bright young woman told me to check out the official Gore site she swears has encouraging stuff on it indicating he is reconsidering making another presidental race. I thanked her and turned her on to FDL.
lotus – Ho-Joe – FOTFL!
Soap Catcher 119 -thanks for calling Senator Boxer – a timely reminder I need to do the same.
My email to Sen Boxer:
Dear Sen. Boxer,
I have been a supporter of yours since you represented my district in the House. I have generally supported your positions on things but the news that you will be supporting Sen Lieberman in the CT primary is hugely disappointing.
1. Joe Lieberman is a DINO, and has voted for Bush and the Rs when it most counted (cf. the Alito cloture vote).
2. He is opposed by a qualifed and apparently electable candidate in the CT primary, who as a complete unknown, received 33% of the delegates’ vote in the CT Dem Convention.
3. He has stated that if he loses the primary he will run as an independent, thus threatening the electability of the Democratic candidate and putting his interest ahead of the Dem party and the Dem voters of his home state.
Why are you doing this? Why is any incumbent Senator (including Sen Biden) doing this? As a matter of strict principle incumbents from other states should remain neutral in other state primaries – it is unseemly to take sides at all, but to take sides in favor of some one who has so damaged the Democrats is unconscionable.
Please immediately reconsider and do as Sen. Clinton has done, and state that you will support the winner of the CT primary and leave it at that.
What we need to do, is demonstrate in as simple terms as possible, why Joe Lunchbucket should give a shit about people like David Addington, and how the xtreme positions guys like him take can impact Joe’s daily life. Make an emotional appeal but one that is grounded in fact. Relate it to what he deals with on a daily basis at work. The disconnect between those in the field and the do-nothings at corporate headquarters.
Marketing people!
LindaR at 96 Charlie Brown, who is running against John Doolittle in CA-04, has a diary up at dkos. If anyone is so inclined, he could use some recommends.
VOT very OT: as of, ok now, I am eligible to comment at kos. I have tried to figure out how to recommend a diary with no success so far. Click on it and hit the Recommend button on the right? I’ve clicked on everything in sight but don’t see any Rec button. Take pity on a total newbie and advise pls?
This page is either an insult to Alfred E. Neuman or Joe Lieberman’s dream transformation into a member of the Bush family.
Happy July 4th to all of you. I just made a flash game where uncle Sam is seen throwing knives at Joe Lieberman called Back Stabbing Lieberman. Check it out at my site here: http://zenwire.com/flashmedia-lieberman.php. There are also other games there: bush rampage, bush-rice-terror, bush shootout, dancing bush and Blair and other political games as well. Feel free to comment for I plan to make more.
I’ve been out doing doors all day, so I misssed most fof the comments here. Did anyone mention “the General’s” new Joe ad today?
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com…..1341578203
The General makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, in a purely heterosexual way. (TM)
the question about Lieberman turning Republican if he is elected as an independent is interesting. the only reason for doing so would be out of revenge, or for some committee assignment. if the the Repubs win control of the senate, the question then becomes – what’s in it for them to give a committee assignment to a Benedict Arnold?