There are many conclusions to be drawn from Joe Lieberman’s decision to launch a cut-and-run campaign, but the one drawn by The Hill this morning isn’t one of them:
A Lamont victory in the Aug. 8 primary could present another hurdle for Democrats Diane Farrell, Joe Courtney and Chris Murphy who are vying to oust GOP Reps. Christopher Shays, Rob Simmons and Nancy Johnson, respectively, in a state where Democrats have dominated in recent national elections.
…snip…
"Democrats have a much better chance of winning if Joe Lieberman is at top of the ticket," said Bill Andresen, Lieberman’s longtime chief of staff-turned-Dutko Worldwide lobbyist. "General elections are determined by moderates and centrists, not liberals. This kind of split hurts those House candidates."
Bullshit. I went to a barbecue here in Connecticut last night with many of those same candidates, local Democrats, Ned Lamont and others. NOBODY was talking about the need for Joe’s leadership at the top of the ticket; just the opposite. Joe’s support of the war has them all tongue-tied over the issue because their Republican opponents keep using it against them. The hurdle they were deeply worried about was Lieberman continuing in the race after August 8 as an independent, and about that prospect they were quite furious.
There are three tight races for congressional seats here in Connecticut, and the concerns of those involved in all levels could not have been clearer. If the Democrats resolve their ticket in August and move forward with a consolidated party effort toward November, the races are tough — particularly Diane Farrell’s — but winable. If Joe defies and divides the party, sucks all the oxygen out of the race, hijacks all the money, media time, volunteers and resources to this specific contest it’s going to be tough going in November.
Make no mistake about it — Joe Lieberman’s decision to run as an independent could throw three Congressional seats to the GOP, and destroy Democratic hopes to take control of the House in the fall.
I think it’s great that Hillary Clinton has stepped out and said she’ll support the Democratic candidate in the fall, let’s hope more will follow her lead. But I think people should be thinking about the larger implications as well. Especially if they were toying with the idea of showing up here in Connecticut and campaigning for Joe, who is simply taking his campaign to damage the party in order to further himself to a whole new level.
(Joe already showed he could give fuck-all about local Democrats earlier in the year when he marched in a parade with GOP Congressional candidate Nancy Johnson at the Memorial Day Parade in Waterbury, above.)
I realize local candidates are afraid to speak out against Lieberman because he has threatened to suck up all the state party’s money in order to promote himself if need be and cut them all off, but it would be nice to see some leadership from people like Chris Dodd who should be looking out for the good of the state party, period, and get out of the Joe Lieberman protection racket. Joe has turned local Democrats against each other in an ugly battle — it was the Blue and the Gray over potato salad yesterday, with lifelong friends turning their backs on each other as Joe forces everyone to choose sides. If Dodd is hoping to make a 2008 Presidential bid, right about now would be a good time to stop running for cover and do the right thing.
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Christy!
Jane!
NED
and Fitz
and ROOTS
roots!
A spokesman for the R candidate, Alan Schlessinger, admitted that he would rather run against Lieberman. He should know.
Some cable station had The Last Hurrah on the other night. I TIVO’d it. Loved Tracy in whatever.
Anyway, lets hope that the primary is Joe’s Last Hurrah.
I would think that a highly-motivated Democratic electorate would be a significant benefit to other candidates on the ticket in November. Turnout is everything, and Lamont seems to be showing that he can excite voters. Lieberman, on the other zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
What is appalling is Joe’s belief that he is so important to, not only the people of his state, but to the country at large. So much hubris in such a little little man.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for Chris Dodd to step up to the plate.
What is going to make the difference is the Aug. 8th primary when the depth of the discontent with Holy Joe becomes apparent, then you will see and hear the cries for Holy Joe to go away.
I suppose this has been posted all ready but, just in case…Ken Lay (ENRON) died today of a massive heart attack.
Republicrat Lieberman does not deserve any more democratic party money – can’t they see that?
Jane Fitz Christy Poodles The Fuck AMERICA
It was quite clear — Democrats running in this race just want Joe to disappear. His insistence that they are backing him is an abject lie.
Can we please stop repeating the phrase “cut and run?” It’s like fingernails on a blackboard. And I like Ned Lamont!
Thanks.
tbogg rocks!
That snip from The Hill is hilarious. “The Dems need the leadership of a self-serving, whiny-ass party turncoat.” Karl, is that you?
local candidates are afraid to speak out against Lieberman because he has threatened to suck up all the state party’s money in order to promote himself if need be and cut them all off. . .
Every party has its structures for distributing funds during an election cycle, but if Joe doesn’t win on Aug 8, I can’t see how the CT Democratic organization can allow him to spend any funds at all.
Do we really need to fear that the CT Democratic party will spend money for someone running AGAINST the winner of the Democratic primary?
You’d think they could have found someone a little more neutral as the source. The quote just reinforces why these guys have to go. He’s feeding the Republican “liberal” = “loon” meme.
Jane, you’re on the ground there. Do you really think that Lieberman can suck up money and resources while running outside the party? The machine will really still support him in such a situation?
Hear, hear.
Ok since I’m off work today, taking my Strat to repair shop, bit of nut busted off at low E string, need replacement of whole piece – i offer moi Strat and soon to be replaced nut as metaphor.
Just a suggestion: since the races are competitive-to-tight for Diane Farrell, Joe Courtney and Chris Murphy, could we have links to their campaign pages and in particular, to donation buttons?
Those FDL’rs in areas that are less competitive and firmly blue might do well to help these folks out with $$.
Perhaps a separate category/tag for “Connecticut Politics might also help, so that FDL’rs can hunt down key stories about these folks if they’d like to help them out or follow the effect of Joe-nertia on their campaigns.
Thanks, Jane, for the ultimate commitment of being there on the spot. This is huge stuff, really, like a new form of representative government at work to have you represent us in CT where the direction of the entire Senate may lie.
Day after the 4th of July thoughts on Jane’s post:
“Joe has turned local Democrats against each other in an ugly battle — it was the Blue and the Gray over potato salad yesterday, with lifelong friends turning their backs on each other as Joe forces everyone to choose sides.”
This is truly sad. I briefly went to a community picnic after the 4th parade in my Alaska community. All the candidates were there, wearing varying versions of red, white and blue.
We fight our political battles hard here, but when they’re over, we have to get back to living with each other. You’d think it would be the other way around – people more accomodating in Connecticut than here? 3.5 million people living in a postage stamp (5,000 sq. miles) vs 600 K people living in a place 120 times the size of Connecticut.
Our candidate against the repugnant GOP Rep. Don Young, is Diane Benson, who has returned to the Dems from the Greens, something I can’t imagine the Dems in Connecticut letting happen.
I hope the Connecticut Dems can find ways to work through the contortions Holy Joe has created for them. But it is beginning to look more and more like the Lamont campaign’s strength has brought out Lieberman’s weaknesses even more than was anticipated. That stupid bear/Weicker campaign ad seems so months ago already.
Let’s hope that Lamont’s people and the Connecticut Dem organization can keep the momentum going on other Dem races all the way to November.
I’m not following the logic here. There are currently two scenarios:
1. Joe wins the primary and runs as a Democrat. Yawn. How is this going to motivate the base to come out and vote? I don’t see how this helps other Democrats who are running. In fact, I think it might hurt them.
2. Joe loses the primary and runs as an Independent. The base is infuriated and turns out to vote in droves to vote against him. This helps any other Democrat on the ticket. Independents may come out, too, but regardless of whether they vote for Joe or Ned, they’re going to break for the Democrats in other races. Are Republicans going to turn out in high numbers to vote for Joe? I guess it’s possible, but I think that having Joe as an Independent will motivate far more Democrats than Republicans.
FranK your 22
I second Your second.
Larry
God, look, just really look, at that Cheney-Joe photo on previous thread. This is two men whose eyes look into each other’s souls and say, vacation homes. our ease. I understand you.
Jane,
It would seem to me that although Democratic candidates in CT are current divided over Lamont/Lieberman, there will come a tipping point where most, perhaps even all, state Democrats line up behind the eventual winner of the primary – especially if the reports of the DSCC supporting the winner are true.
As I posted earlier, if Lamont takes the primary and the DSCC and other national Democrats support him as the candidate, it is hard to imagine Democratic politicians in CT continuing to support Lieberman.
At that point, after Lamont wins the primary, it would seem politically unwise for any CT Democrat politician to support Lieberman in the face of the larger scale principled Democratic consensus on the issue.
It seems equally true that there are probably few Democratic politicians who would be unwilling to throw Lieberman under the bus once the political disadvantages of supporting him outweighed the advantages. After all, Lieberman has shown that his only loyalty is to himself and perhaps to Bush – not to his fellow Democrats.
So, after the primary, assuming a Lamont win, any CT Democratic political candidate would be ill served politically by supporting Lieberman and also would be unlikely to support Lieberman out of pure “loyalty”.
Seems to me once the primary is over, assuming Lamont wins, a Democratic consensus (or something very close to it) in support of Lamont is highly likely.
Obviously, Lamont needs to win the primary. Thank you for your hard work in this regard.
Ned Lamont’s primary victory will ultimately split the GOP vote in the Senate race rather than the Democratic vote, which is moving steadily in Lamont’s direction.
The GOP Sen. candidate in the general election risks being marginalized by Lieberman who is generally popular and better known to the Republican voters in Connecticut.
The Democratic House races will be hugely benefited from Lamont’s campaign. He is exciting the electorate & the Democratic base who now have an inspiring reasons to get out and vote — a direct benefit to downstream Democratic candidates. This is something a Lieberman campaign does not offer the other Democrats.
In fact, if Bill Andresen actually believed what he told “the Hill,” and truly cared about downstream Democrats, he’d have to admit that a “petitioning” Lieberman, in addition to real Democrat like Lamont leading the Democratic ticket, will be the most help to downstream Democrats since it will bring out both liberal voters and the alleged moderates Andersen claims will vote for Lieberman and the other Democrats.
The truth is, however, that the voters Lieberman attracts do NOT expand the Democratic base and do NOT help downstream Democrats. Lamont is expanding the base for the statewide Connecticut Dem. ticket and Lieberman’s continued presence in the campaign just brings down the whole party, just like his presence in D.C. brings down the effectiveness of the entire Democratic party on the national level.
slainte,
cl
The idea that Joe not being at the top of the ticket hurting other Democrats just seems like so much more blackmail. Support Joe or else. It bespeaks a level of desperation among Lieberman supporters and a recognition that Joe has no record to run on.
But, he is the Joe-sen one!
It’s not fair! Wah wah wah wah!
Sharkbabe: is your Strat a various one?
Rayne — thanks, Howie is already all over it.
jayackroyd — Both inside the party and out, Joe has been a honcho in this state for decades. All of the media focus in the state — and the country — will be on the Lamont/Lieberman race if it comes to that, and all the rest will follow.
And I don’t even want to speculate about what happens if the GOP wakes up and decides to get involved in this race. But rest assured, others are thinking about it.
Joe-nertia MAY “suck all the oxygen” out of the other races and doom Conn. democratic hopefuls for the house seats, but it’s difficult to see how he can possibly win. His biggest asset was his “gravitas” and his reputation as being a serious “statesman” whether voters agreed with him or not. But now he’s running around totally crazy spewing venom and foaming at the mouth.
Who’s going to vote for him? Republicans and independents are really his natural consituency these days, but Republicans will be sensing the opportunity to pick up Connecticut’s senate seat and they’re going to turn out for [*gasp*] the Republican candidate – not Joe!
Indpendents may support him if he can convince enough of them that “liberals” have unfairly forced him out of the Democratic party, but really, his argument that “it’s the war” isn’t going to be very popular in Connecticut. As Ruy Teixeira has shown repeatedly http://www.emergingdemocraticm…..keyrising/
independents are a lot closer to democrats than to republicans these days, especially on the war.
But, even if he wins the majority of indpendents, they’re not enough to win, especially since they tend to split between Democrats and Republicans by election day.
Democrats are going to be beyond steamed that he’s betrayed the party and is a totally selfish turncoat. Clearly, Joe’s base in the Democratic party is vanishingly small — or he wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with and now he looks like a sore loser. He took Democrats for granted all these years and it’s bitten him in the butt! The biggest issue is the war, and he’s totally alienated the Democratic base by kissing Bush’s butt for all these years on that one.
Probably, his best chance would be if the Republican candidate dropped out and endorsed Lieberman and the state Republican party got behind him, in return for Joe’s commitment to vote for the Republican caucus for speaker. Joe could parlay that move into a Republican committee charimanship or something, even though he’d actually be an independent.
But, that’s not going to happen.
First, Lieberman is too liberal on a host of issues (other than the war) for the party base to swallow.
Second, now Republicans are thinking that Joe will split the votes, giving them a chance of an outright win. Why compromise with Joe now? Their candidate isn’t going to want to drop out to favor a lifelong Democrat.
Forget all the polls that show Lieberman competitive or even ahead. By the time the dust settles, Lieberman will finish a distant third. He might tilt the race to the Republicans, but he’s totally doomed, hosed and flushed.
The worst he can do is continue to knock holes in the boat, but he’s going down with it.
I suspect that he will quickly find that whatever money he’s raised won’t be remotely enough either. And the democratic house candidates will be better off without the Joe-batross hanging around their necks.
On DailyKos, someone proposed the following as a bumper sticker:
Republican Stratgey on Iraq:
Stay & Pray
In Connecticut, replace “Republican” with “Lieberman”
Peterr 16 — no, but he can direct it all to his primary race against Lamont (which he no doubt will) and dry it up for anyone else. Further, he’ll be working hard to make sure that contributions that might have come in to the party AFTER the August 8 primary go to him directly. Hence many of the potato salad wars.
Ct Dems have had a long history of a lack of unity and there have been many challenges to the power structure here with most failing. Joe has for many years not even been part of the establishment group here in that he is from Washington and I don’t mean Washington, Ct. Joe has felt so empowered by his lack of a challenge that he felt he could go where ever he wanted on an issue and not pay a price in Ct. His constituency is his fellow Senators and not us here in Ct.
He is going to find out that this was a mistake and many others in DC hopefully will take notice.
This lesson for Joe and others is very important and we a blessed that Ned is one of our teachers.
thanks for being here jane. local newpapers and TV don’t paint quite the picture you are able to portray. the boom box parade looked like fun.
Josh Marshall effectively address Bush’s social security plan by aggressively seeking to get congresspersons on the record regarding privatization.
FDL or other bloggers could do the same with regard to Lieberman’s independent run.
Create a list with every national Democrat and every important CT Democrat and state their position on whether they will support the Democratic senatorial nominee for CT.
Pin down the wafflers and create a consensus.
Jane 10:16 am — once again, as always, you rock and are already all over it like white on rice. Groovy!
And of course that means we can look forward to another one of Howie’s great posts!
Are they (the other dems) worried mostly about $$ or about the effect of losing straight ticket voters with the incumbent not at the top?
punaise – it’s an expensive vintage beauty and would be if could be, wish I had M. Stradivari repair shop – I need it right this second to do/express stuff, alas wait, that’s the human condition
Here is something to understand about Joe Lieberman. Nobody was more vocal in the U.S. Congress in making the NeoCon case for war. And his voice was all the more effective because BushCo could point to him as a demonstration of bipartisan support for a preemptive war. I believe this is why so many powerful insiders are reluctant to make any statement that might be construed as criticism of Leiberman. Senator Chris Dodd has to consider the ramifications of infuriating the NeoCons. Can’t win without that money!!
Jane @ 32 -
I can certainly understand how Joe can go to donors and ask for contributions to him rather than the party, should he lose on Aug 8. But can Joe really direct already donated *party* funds to his own primary race? I always thought that using party funds to back one side in a primary race is about as out-of-bounds as you can get.
Joe’s acts over the last year remind me of my days in Chicago when the first Mayor Daley died in office. Lieberman is acting like the would-be successors to the levers of the Daley Machine did, with a complete sense of entitlement (”But I was the late mayor’s favorite!”). Meanwhile, lower-level folks were often scared to speak up out of fear of getting caught in the middle (How does that African proverb go? “When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled”?) . . .
The e-mail below just went out to the DSCC:
*********************************************
Hello – dyed-in-the-wool loyal Democrat here. I am so charged up for this November’s elections!
I realize there are all sorts of complications regarding Senator Joseph Leiberman’s campaign for Senate, but I want you to know how concerned I am that he is diminishing the importance of “party” as he vacillates between Democrat and Independent. Frankly, he looks like a spoiled brat. More accurately, he comes off as a man who expects his wife to remain patient while he’s out on the dating circuit. I and many others are not amused.
I would like to see the DSCC make no bones about it, and say it directly: you’re either loyal to the party, or you’re not; party disloyalty hurts the party, and the DSCC enthusiastically supports the winners of primaries, across the board.
Let’s go in November!!!
Rayne 20 – Love your idea of a FDL donation link to those other worthy CT Dem candidates you mention.
IMHO ole Joe is toast and the only media “ink” he can expect between now and the primary will only seal his fate.
You are right to call bullshit on this, Jane.
O/T: Last Throes update -
Bodies flood morgue despite Zarqawi’s death
Close to 1,600 Iraqis die in and around Baghdad in June, majority were shot
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) – Baghdad’s central morgue received nearly 1,600 bodies last month — the highest number since the February bombing of a Shiite shrine sparked a wave of sectarian killings, a morgue official said on Wednesday.
The figures show the level of violence in Iraq has increased even after the killing on June 7 of al-Qaida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in a U.S. air strike…
_____
Things are really going well.
We have term limits for presidents and in most states for governors. How come no terms limits for senators and congressmen? Stupid question. They would have to vote YES on limiting their own lucrative careers at the federal trough. OTOH after two terms they can become millionaire lobbyists.
I, for one, am in favor of term limits: two terms and go find a real job, hopefully an honest one. DHYB.
This notion that moderates and centrists win elections is the mythology of the DLC which they cling to afetr decades of getting their butts kicked by an GOP aroused base. I suspect that Lieberman and Andersen actually believe this fantasy. The problem with moderation is that it believes in nothing passionately or firmly. As long as the Democrats try to be maderate the public will continue to believe that they do not believe in anything and will choose someone who does. The democratic party is not going to revive itself until it abandons “moderation in the pursuit of justice” and adopts “extremism in defense of liberty” as its mantra. Goldwater was soundly defeated, but this concept is not what did him in, notwithstanding what the DLC believes.
If it is true that the DSCC is about to announce their support for the winner of the Democratic primary, I think they have begun to understand the consequences to Connecticut races in general of Joe’s continuing presence in the race as some sort of hybrid candidate.
If anything, I would think that the interest in the Lamont candidacy is a positive thing for those Democrats running for House seats. Where The Hill goes off the rails is that it is coming from the (wrong) perspective of Lieberman being a Democrat in the traditional sense, which they assume must mean that Ned Lamont is from the ultra-left wing of the party, and that his support therefore must be from radicals who will turn moderate voters toward the Republican alternatives. Too bad The Hill’s grasp of Lieberman’s – and Lamont’s – leanings is so off-the-mark.
Someone in the party needs to have a serious sit-down with Joe, and tell him that if he doesn’t win the primary as a Democrat, he will be on his own financially – that the party cannot funnel money or support to him. That’s number one. Number two is to tell him that his ego is putting control of the House in danger, and that if he really cares as much about his party and the country as he claims, he will take his chances in the primary, and if he loses, will support the winner. Period.
I think he may eventually come to that position, but I fear that by the time that happens it may be too late to undo the damage.
Jane – so much appreciate your hard work, as well as the inside scoop on how and what people are thinking and talking about in CT.
General elections are determined by whether or not your base is motivated. This bullshit chasing of the shadow moderates is the reason the Democrats are a minority party now. This stupid stategy is the reason Lieberman is fighting for his senate seat, rather than sitting in the Vice-President’s office, planning his glorious 2008 presidential run. There is no goddamned “middle.”
I love the way the national media seems to be suffering from the assumption that Joey is this headlining act that encourages voting when it is quite the opposiite: he depresses voters. Lieberman makes voters in CT hopeless about DC corruption, etc.
Holy Joe has the political instincts of a dead cow.
He made this mooove, because the polls showing him winning in walk as an independent. That might have happened, if he hadn’t blown up his support in the CT Democratic Party with this turncoat backstab.
Holy Joe — he’s ugly and stupid and nobody likes him.
Mark @42
Boo-Yah! That is just the right tone, but you did not tell them what you expected them to do, namely say that they will support the Dem primary winner. These guys are a little slow sometimes, so you have to be clear with your expectations.
That said, great letter!
I’ve got three women to thank here:
Jane, how wonderful that you’re bringing us all there with you. I can almost taste the pizza and the lobster rolls, but even better, I can practically see, hear, and smell Connecticut’s excitement and Joe’s despair. Marvelous!
Christy, you did us so proud this morning, and every morning. I have no doubt that some new Firepups have joined us in the last 90 minutes — and of course, once they’re here, they’ll know they’re HOME. Bless you and welcome!
Rayne, lady, the mother you are to those voters-to-be of yours — my vocabulary stops short of what I need to say about you, but it’s well past “magnificent.” Thank you. Thank you.
Well, why stop there.
THANK YOU, FIREDOGLAKE, I say on behalf of America.
“I know President Bush. I wouldnt say hes a friend of mine. and trust me, I am no President Bush.”
Don’t worry Joe, we’re all just zealous.
The WaPo has an item today about how people are using shame via the internet to address grievances in the business community, when other avenues of redress have been unsuccessful: Angry Customers Use Web to Shame Firms .
The article is about the corporate world, but Joe’s clearly finding out that the same is holding true in politics as well. From author Kim Hart’s opening: “The Web has turned into a place where shame and humiliation are sometimes the strongest weapons in fighting scams and unfairness.”
Scams and unfairness . . . anyone in CT want to offer an opinion on the accuracy of applying those two words to Joe?
Shame and humiliation . . . anyone want to argue that these are the most potent weapons being wielded against Holey Joe? CT NARAL certainly thinks they work, and are worth using.
Go Jane!
darkblack 54 beat me to it. here’s an excerpt:
“local candidates are afraid to speak out against Lieberman because he has threatened to suck up all the state party’s money in order to promote himself if need be and cut them all off. . .
Every party has its structures for distributing funds during an election cycle, but if Joe doesn’t win on Aug 8, I can’t see how the CT Democratic organization can allow him to spend any funds at all.
Do we really need to fear that the CT Democratic party will spend money for someone running AGAINST the winner of the Democratic primary?”
“Peterr 16 %u2014 no, but he can direct it all to his primary race against Lamont (which he no doubt will) and dry it up for anyone else. Further, he’ll be working hard to make sure that contributions that might have come in to the party AFTER the August 8 primary go to him directly. Hence many of the potato salad wars.”
That’s really not the fear. The fall campaign will need millions of dollars, and as always corporate and other special interest PACS will contribute much of it. Rollover-Joe is their friend. If he’s in the race sucking all the wind out of it and drawing all the attention, that will make it harder for other democrats to get any of the swag.
That’s the fear. And it shows how utterly corrupting the system is and the desparate need for strict public campaign finance laws.
This place is an ever-increasing thrill
Where dead bullshit goes to be buried
Go ned, redd, jane and every one of you amazing people here
really, nazi goebbels rove a match for this? we shall see.
true 21st c. epic contest here – and I am betting on us
mooove!! Tee-hee!
The thing about marching with the GOP candidate has settled it for me. Lieberman has no cognitive relationship to the material world, and is operated by remote control. I hope that from this day the Party will find more fruitful ways to spend its resources than on an automaton—someone else’s, no less.
McCain and what Jeb? Folk better wake up.
Peterr 10:27am — heh. You may also know this African saying as well:
The daughters of lions are lions, too.
Jane and Christy will surely take care of those trampling elephants; they’re doing a bang-up job already. ;-)
Joe suffers from cognitive diss’n us
OT– Froomkin is on fire today!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01676.html
1. Let’s not get the cart before the horse. Much discussion here about all the November ramifications, strategies, etc. It don’t mean jack unless Lamont wins in August. And I’ve yet to see an poll which puts Lamont as the clear winner.
2. So…who ARE the ones who’ll vote for Lieberman in August? Old party bosses? Maybe…but they number only in the LOW hundreds. Even if Lieberman loses in August, he’ll still get thousands and thousands and thousands of votes. So, who ARE these people?
Are they the unions? Are they the senior citizens? Are they the Jewish in religion? Are they the Democrat small business owners? Who are they? Lamont needs to answer that question…for the answer defines where he should attack over these final 30 days. About the only luxory Lamont has is that his own base is highly energetic and motivated. But Lamont needs to get out there and score some of those Lieberman votes. And right now. November is then…August is NOW.
Ghostman
Okay, this is like my second post here ever, and the first was a recipe. But I want to suggest that any scenario which has Lieberman running as an independent against Lamont bodes poorly for Lamont’s chances. I think a lot of people are projecting their own highly-justified disgust with Lieberman onto the electorate as a whole. State-level political loyalties run deep, and a lot of those who have been propping up Joe for two decades are gonna show up for him. What’s more they’ll feel themselves to be antagonized by the netroots crowd, and band together against the outsiders. The projections of a wide-scale bail-out on Lieberman are way premature.
I can’t say exactly what the impact will be down ticket, but Lieberman’s flight of fancy has a very high chance of handing the Senate seat to the Republicans. I think there’s a further chance that when polls start to show a divided Democratic party split between Lieberman and Lamont, Republicans will slide in opportunistically and take advantage.
Don’t take anything I’m saying as a suggestion that it’s a bad idea to support Lamont. I may be wrong — maybe there are enough Democratic votes to go around. And unambiguous DSCC and national party support for a primary-winning Lamont could go a long way toward soothing the hearts of Lieberman homers who need an assist to get the full picture of their man’s craven cowardice.
But let’s be clear. Lieberman just turned this into a scorched-earth campaign. The main hope, aside from national party support for Lamont, is that Turncoat Joe continues to do his opponent’s work by discrediting himself and running, astonishingly, as a Bush adherent.
Rayne – left you a quick “thanks” at the end of the last thread re: overthrow comment
Things are moving fast, and probably not in a way “My Name is Mud” was expecting. To have Hillary Clinton and the DSCC come out supporting the party instead of him has to be bruising. And Lieberman continues to show he has the world’s worst political instincts.
I’m beginning to wonder if he’ll even make it to the primary, frankly. The machinery is turning against him both nationally and at the state level. He’s going to find himself very lonely manning the GOTV effort by himself after the money for the GOP operatives runs out.
Peterr–
Jane’s point, I think, (and I think it effectively refutes mine) is that Lieberman has banked 30 years of favors in a machine-politics state. He has put people into offices, affected state and county races, delivered resources and otherwise put people in his debt. He’s at the top of the machine. There’s nobody to tell him what to do or not to do. Look what happened at the convention–a secret ballot of all delegates could well have endorsed Lamont.
And, until he actually loses, people have to fear the guy at the top of the machine. Also note that she said that he has chits from both parties. These are personal chits, not Democratic chits.
There are going to be a number of “Get serious, Russ” conversations. (Well, in fact, Jane is pointing out that they are happening right now.) You know: “Face facts. Joe’s gonna do whatever it takes, and those who oppose him are gonna pay when he wins. And he will win.” Some strategist, Begala maybe, said early in the campaign, that Lamont was wasting his time, that Lieberman was too good a politician to lose. That comment was not referring to his popularity, but to his deep understanding of the machine and how to work it.
This is actually something of a classic insurgency against the machine campaign. But they are very hard to pull off.
OTOH, the insurgency is very strong–the convention showed how strong. And Lieberman’s been feeding Lamont’s message since then in a stunningly inept campaign.
puppethead 66 -
Primus “My Name is Mud”
“…and running, astonishingly, as a Bush adherent.”
Some one should take that “I’m no President Bush” article and run with it now. They’d be doing Lieberman a favor. The man cannot hear himself.
What cugel says at 57. Lieberman may suck up the fat cow cash coming into CT–& perhaps other areas of New England. Buuuuuutt, if Lamont can clearly, cleanly & convincingly kick Joe’s bbbbuuuutttt in the primary, the smart money can & will move. Usually, these elections are much like a horse race. So keep a close eye on the million dollar windows.
chad @47 an cleter @49 have it exactly right. *Turnout* wins elections. “The base” of either party will turn out in droves when motivated; moderate “swing” voters never will.
I would bet that for every swing voter you entice via triangulation, you piss off two base voters into staying home. Okay, maybe that’s pessimistic, but the ratio is definitely high enough to make it a really bad trade-off.
(apologies if this double-posts)
Ya know, the old “conventional wisdom” was that a lack of bipartisan effort was preventing America from moving forward.
Well , bipartisan with today’s Republicans moves the country backward
And Joe embodies that ‘movement’.
2. So%u2026who ARE the ones who’ll vote for Lieberman in August? Old party bosses? Maybe%u2026but they number only in the LOW hundreds. Even if Lieberman loses in August, he’ll still get thousands and thousands and thousands of votes. So, who ARE these people?
They’re the ones who vote on name recognition and habit. That would be most voters. What is baffling is why Joe would want to raise Lamont’s name recognition numbers, which is what he has been doing. The internal polls must be really bad–that is, voters who know who Lamont is must favor him. The public polls are trending Lamont remarkably quickly.
His fear, of course, is that the same voters who vote on name recognition and by habit don’t go to primaries in August. So his public numbers might be very soft. And all of this fuss is going to help Lamont with turnout.
feel the joementum
sore loserman, dying on the vine
and how did you die, senator loserman ???
on stage, like you
Headline from Raw Story:
Scoop: UN to probe alleged US human rights violations… Developing…
darkblack at 54:
That’s a “make the bastard deny it” moment if I’ve ever heard one! Joe’s political instincts continue to be as tone-deaf as ever.
Okay, looks like we need to have a talk about the money. In Crashing the Gate, somebody (can’t remember who, sorry) said they organized by having the “money” meet with the activists from different organizations, all at the same time. The end result was that the activists were more responsive and accountable, and less likely to drift off in their own direction versus moving in sync.
Who have been the big money donors in CT? is it time to go through OpenSecrets, ID all the CT-based big money donors to Dems and progressive organizations, get them to sit in a room with all the progressive activists, and hammer out how the money will be spent from here through the election to WIN Dem seats, as opposed to pissing away their money?
At least from where I’m sitting, it’s time to lay the ground work to cut Joe out of the money when he doesn’t win the primary.
Every single comment Joe has made about his decision reeks of arrogance. He has basically told the Democrats in CT. that he doesn’t trust their decision August and that he only cares about himself.
I think the next move should be the DSCC to come out and say they are now supporting Ned in the primary race since Ned is showing an allegiance to the Democratic Party that Joe would never show.
I can’t say exactly what the impact will be down ticket, but Lieberman’s flight of fancy has a very high chance of handing the Senate seat to the Republicans.
The ONLY way the GOP picks up this seat is if Turncoat Lieberman switches parties. The GOP candidate has two chances in this race — Slim and None, and Slim barely has a pulse.
By half way jumping ship by planting one foot on the dock and one on the deck, Leverman has screwed himself. If he bided his time, and made this announcement at the end of the month, he might have gotten away with it.
Now, everyone in Connecticut will tune into Thursday’s debate, to take a gander at their next Senator — Ned Lamont.
There is a bit of double wankery in this comment. First, I do not consider Joe a centrist or moderate. His views on the war and abortion are quite extreme. Some of his other views are quite liberal. He is anything but a moderate.
Secondly, why has every Democratic consultant in existence ingested the “centrists win elections” meme? Republicans win elections, and the Republicans are as extreme as any major political party in this country has ever been.
Even a fucking rat in a maze will eventually figure out that a dead end path leads to a dead end and try something different.
Finally, as a bonus bit of wankery, Connecticut is a liberal state. Why consultants think you have to run away from being a liberal in a liberal state is beyond me.
In any case, this wanker is just a Lieberman symp. He should be derisively ignored.
Lieberman quote:
“My challenger is backed by a group of very zealous people and they are using me to get at President Bush,” Lieberman said. “I know President Bush. I wouldn’t say he’s a friend of mine. and trust me, I am no President Bush.”
Interesting. If Lieberman is no friend of President Bush, then why would anyone want to “use” him to “get at President Bush”?
Something seems awry here.
Ah yes, I think I’ve figured it out.
Lieberman is lying when he says that he is no friend of Bush.
There is a cornucopia of other great quotes in the most recent article with Lieberman, most of which should be shoved back in his face hard by Lamont at the debates.
Especially the quote about party loyalty.
Buuuuuutt, if Lamont can clearly, cleanly & convincingly kick Joe’s bbbbuuuutttt in the primary, the smart money can & will move.
Walt–
1) The point is that other candidates will suffer.
2) It’s not at all clear that if you’re in CT that the smart money is on an insurgent campaign. Lamont’s not gonna have a whole lotta foundation in the state if he wins.
3) It would be very surprising to see him “kick butt.” Sneak by by a point in a low turnout race is a much more likely scenario.
I kind of think the money may dry up for Joe if he doesn’t win the primary. I think he cashed in a lot of those chits in his disastrously inept 2004 presidential bid. A lot of those chits may not be there any more. I imagine that fat-cat donors who threw money into the rathole that was Jomentum 2004, only to watch in horror as he came in 5th in New Hampshire, might be a little reluctant to again waste money on him after he (in their eyes)loses a primary in his own state, for his own seat, against some sort of nobody. I imagine there are a lot of donors, who, after the 2004 debacle, quietly put Joementum in the “Never Again” file.
darkblack – maybe you could have fun with this one
Hi Jamie!
Are you the Word Press Administrator?
If so, can you turn off the Smart Quotes?
To get rid of the %u2026 stuff.
On CNN and on this AP/Yahoo story via Raw Story:
jayackroyd -
At 66, you say Joe’s got all these favors banked, and that makes everyone else reluctant to buck the machine. At 73, though, you note that the internal polls must really be running badly for Joe.
What we’re seeing in CT is not so much “something of a classic insurgency against the machine campaign,” as you put it. As I said above, I lived in Chicago when the the first Mayor Daley was around, so I know something of machine politics. What I think is happening in CT more akin to the post-Daley mess, as I said above.
The machine is broken in CT, and the convention is the most visible evidence. Some think that the machine can be rebuilt; others think that it’s gone and something new will take its place.
Me, I’m in the “something new” camp. Favors are only good if the ones who owe them can actually deliver. Can the national NARAL office turn out the vote for Joe when the CT NARAL opposes Joe?
mui at 10:31 says:
“…the national media seems to be suffering from the assumption that Joey is this headlining act that encourages voting …”
What about the candidate for governor serving as the headlining act? What is happening in the governor’s race–is there a primary? The candidate for governor should be able to act as a leader in holding the party together and energizing the base (along with Lamont). Who needs Joe to do that?
Are you the Word Press Administrator?
If so, can you turn off the Smart Quotes?
To get rid of the %u2026 stuff.
I second this. The aesthetic and readability downside far outweighs the marginal aesthetic upside.
Eli–
I would bet that for every swing voter you entice via triangulation, you piss off two base voters into staying home. Okay, maybe that’s pessimistic, but the ratio is definitely high enough to make it a really bad trade-off.
Yes, but there are way more swing voters. IME, the base holds their noses and pulls the lever. At least I hope PA voters do. (And if you to point to Rove and his firing up of the base, what he did first was expand it by bringing otherwise uninvolved citizens into his base. That’s why they’re fracturing now; these involved citizens are now demanding results that he can’t deliver without losing elections.)
The trouble is that while running to center may be a good idea in a particular campaign (see Bush 2000), it is not a good idea as a party philosophy. You can focus on or misrepresent your positions to appear more centrist in a campaign. You can cast some votes (see Clinton, H) that allow you to portray yourself as centrist. But you can’t build a party around the swing voter–because, dammit, they’re swing voters.
I don’t like the civil war reference, but I have to say describing Joe as “gray” (rather than “red” or “blue”) in his outlook is fitting…
jayackroyd 83
If (when) Ned wins, he’s no longer an insurgency. He’s the bona fide Democratic nominee. At that point, Lieberman is the kooky insurgent, write-in, Lyndon La Rouche-style nut job. I think the smart money will go to the actual nominee, not the jackass who couldn’t win a primary for his own seat. At that point, Lieberman is cloaked in the stench of loserdom. He’s the future former senator.
Punaise, you ham wit rye, you. ;>)
‘Senator, We’ve struggled under George Bush, we know George Bush, George Bush is an ideological opponent of ours. Senator, you are George Bush.’
Stephen Parrish, CPA – left you a quick note at end of last thread re: overthrow
could we get someone from the dscc to describe hypothetical situations where they wouldn’t support the primary winner? doesn’t seem like it should even be a possibility under normal circumstances… and an incumbent facing a tough primary challenger is not what i’d call abnormal…
darkblack 10:34 a.m.
Joe Lieberman: “trust me, I am no President Bush.”
Richard M. Nixon: “I am not a crook.”
If they feel it’s necessary to deny it, that means you’d better take a second look.
Are they the unions? Are they the senior citizens? Are they the Jewish in religion? Are they the Democrat small business owners? Who are they? Lamont needs to answer that question%u2026for the answer defines where he should attack over these final 30 days.
Not necessarily, No. In my humble opinion, no. Especially not the “jewish vote.”
Here’s my take, since I am a native. Many “supporters” are conservative old-style democratic types, the kind that feel they “know” Joe cause they had some dealings or shook hands with him or whatever.
There are also “types” that have a faith or trust in politicans still, which is truly mindboggling. They see Joe as some sort of expert.
There are also really confused people who don’t know about the Alito filibuster and the social security privatization deal. They tend to think Joe’s “on their side” partly because of some of the active deception practiced by Leiberman himself.
Then as someone else pointed out their are the “name recognition” folks. . .
Throw in some confusing Lieberman mailings etc. and the rest is well . . .
The part about “jewish” voters needs to be cleared up, because among other things, it’s dead-end thinking. The “jewish” vote comes in all political stripes and variations in CT. I am not even sure the “orthodox” vote is a lock-up for Joe.
Lloyd Bentsen:
“I knew George Bush, and Senator, you are a George Bush.”
what I find so intensely amazing about holy joe’s decision is that he isn’t even behind in the polls for the primary at this point. last I read, he was 16 pts ahead of lamont in the latest poll. Now I understand there are probably internal polls that are showing different fundaments but still– It seems that the very possibility of having to run a race he is not *assured* of winning is driving his mad dash to loserville.
And, don’t yell at me, but–it isn’t really a given that ned would win the primary. ghostman at 63 wonders who will actually vote *for* lieberman. It’s the same thing I wondered about here in CA-36 last month where Marcy Winograd ran a really spirited campaign against Jane Harman who carries many of the same ick factors as holy joe (support of war/patriot act; lack of challence to cheney/bush imperium). I really felt like the only people who would go to the polls that day would be people who wanted to vote harman out (it certainly wasn’t to vote *for* either of our ignoble candidates for governor) and yet harman won 62%. Lamont is a far more solid candidate but still many people vote oout of a sense of civic duty w/o knowing much and easily vote for the familar name.
All of this to say, Lieberman could probaly have won the primary or at least had a v v good shot at it, until he started pissing himself with fear and indignation.
Joe Lieberman: “trust me, I am no President Bush.”
Richard M. Nixon: “I am not a crook.”
If they feel it’s necessary to deny it, that means you’d better take a second look.
“I didn’t kiss him back.”
CK –
I just added some more filters to try and get rid of it. Those characters usually come across from pasting from an application like Front Page or Word into here. Also if you paste from a webpage that uses that encoding in to here, it can come through. Hopefully I got them all now. I just put in about 6 more filters LOL.
Eric Alterman on Turncoat Joe –
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13685502/#060705
Don’t Go Away Mad, Joe…
The thing about Lieberman: Regardless of ideology, I’d vote against the guy purely on the basis of his incompetence. What, after all, are his accomplishments as a senator? During this past term, as far as I can, they are two:
1. A $1.3 trillion war that has made us more insecure, engendered hatred, killed tens of thousands, etc.
2. A Department of Homeland Security, which, as Frank Rich points out, “in keeping with the Bush administration’s original opposition to it, isn’t really a government agency at all so much as an empty shell, a networking boot camp for future private contractors dreaming of big paydays. Thanks to an investigation by The Times’s Eric Lipton, we know that some two-thirds of the top department executives, including Tom Ridge and his principal deputies, have cashed in on their often brief service by becoming executives, consultants or lobbyists for companies that have received billions of dollars in government contracts. Even John Ashcroft, the first former attorney general in American history known to immediately register as a lobbyist, is selling his Homeland Security connections to interested bidders. “When you got it, flaunt it!” as they say in “The Producers.”
To see the impact of such revolving-door cronyism, just look at the Homeland Security process that mandated those cutbacks for New York and Washington. The official in charge, the assistant secretary for grants and training, is Tracy Henke, an Ashcroft apparatchik from the Justice Department who was best known for trying to politicize the findings of its Bureau of Justice Statistics. (So much so that the White House installed her in Homeland Security with a recess appointment, to shield her from protracted Senate scrutiny.) Under Henke math, it follows that St. Louis, in her home state (and Mr. Ashcroft’s), has seen its counterterrorism allotment rise by more than 30 percent while that for the cities actually attacked on 9/11 fell. And guess what: the private contractor hired by Homeland Security to consult on Ms. Henke’s handiwork, Booz Allen Hamilton, now just happens to employ Greg Rothwell, who was the department’s procurement chief until December. Booz Allen recently nailed a $250 million Homeland Security contract for technology consulting.
Dude, you’re fired for cause. Plus there’s his obvious:
* lack of loyalty to his party, duh, and
* lack of understanding of the meaning of democracy (and by the way, Broder doesn’t seem to care…) Plus, look at this quote: “a minority of the minority, who are antis, have a disproportionate influence” in the primary vote. By “disproportionate influence” he means actually voting.
I’ve not written anything about this race before, and I do think that which party controls Congress is a great deal more important than any individual senator or congressman, but this is truly insulting on so many levels, well, I’ve said enough.
OOPS and almost forgot -
It will only work on posts made from the change forward. If they appeared in the posts before that then it will still be there unfortunately.
Thanks for all you do, Jamie!
Here’s a question for the DSCC:
In what other major races are you considering backing the primary LOSER? Which ones?
By the way, Froomkin’s smokin’ today not just in his discussion but in his regular column (a great deal of it re Murray).
Lieberman said. ‘If he – as my mother would say, ‘God forbid’ – wins the primary, I’m not sure he would win the election.”
Why is he dragging his mother into it? If he wants to say “God forbid Ned Lamont wins the election”–if he wants to call down the wrath of God on the Lamont campaign the way Pat Robertson does on his enemies–let him do it in his own voice. He knows it will have negative repercussions with some of those who don’t subscribe to the Pat Robertson theory of divine intervention upon human command, so he weasels around it by putting words in his mother’s mouth. Speak for yourself, Joe.
neurophius (89). I dunno. The governer’s race seems messy. I can’t say much about it, because I really don’t know, but . . . sigh.
I kind of think the money may dry up for Joe if he doesn’t win the primary.
One word: AIPAC.
(This is from a very nuanced essay by Michael Massing in the NYRoB. I’ve been trying to develop a post for the Schumer Watch blog using this material.)
AIPAC’s defenders like to argue that its success is explained by its ability to exploit the organizing opportunities available in democratic America. To some extent, this is true. AIPAC has a formidable network of supporters throughout the US. Its 100,000 members%u2014up 60 percent from five years ago %u2014are guided by AIPAC’s nine regional offices, its ten satellite offices, and its one-hundred-person-plus Washington staff, a highly professional group that includes lobbyists, researchers, analysts, organizers, and publicists, backed by an enormous $47 million annual budget. AIPAC’s staff is famous on Capitol Hill for its skill in gathering up-to-the-minute information about Middle Eastern affairs and working it up into neatly digestible and carefully slanted policy packages, on which many congressional staffers have come to rely.
Such an account, however, overlooks a key element in AIPAC’s success: money. AIPAC itself is not a political action committee. Rather, by assessing voting records and public statements, it provides information to such committees, which donate money to candidates; AIPAC helps them to decide who Israel’s friends are according to AIPAC’s criteria. The Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that analyzes political contributions, lists a total of thirty-six pro-Israel PACs, which together contributed $3.14 million to candidates in the 2004 election cycle. Pro-Israel donors give many millions more. Over the last five years, for instance, Robert Asher, together with his various relatives (a common device used to maximize contributions), has donated $148,000, mostly in sums of $1,000 or $2,000 to individual candidates.
This is one reason that Schumer is so resistant to not endorsing Lieberman. They are both Likkudnik neocons on the Middle East. Lamont would be a big loss for the AIPAC folks. Not only will he not be as far to the right as Lieberman on Israel. They also can’t cut off his funds.
Conversely, candidates who challenge AIPAC can find their funds suddenly dry up. Two well-publicized cases are those of Representatives Cynthia McKinney of Georgia and Earl Hilliard of Alabama, both African-Americans. In 2002, McKinney and Hilliard were alleged to have made statements or taken positions critical of Israel, and their primary opponents received large amounts of pro-Israel money. Both candidates had limited public support and ended up losing. Cases such as these occur infrequently: a candidate’s position on Israel is rarely enough by itself to cause defeat. But it can have a very large effect on fund-raising.
Neurophius-
Perhaps Joe is simply clarifying the distinction between his mother’s genuine faith and his own cynical manipulation of religious ideals for his own political aggrandizement.
so now Joe is hiding behind his mother’s skirt.
pleats don’t go there, Joe.
Jamie –
I used to have the problem at Democrats.com — I’d compose in MS Works, and copy paste to Dems.com. Same thing happened.
Bob Fertik directed me to a preferences page in MS Works, where the Smart Quotes could be switched off. No more problems after that.
I was thinking there might be a similar preference in Word Press that could be switched off — it might be worth asking their coders.
Thanks . . .
With the new changes I’m now seeing “€”. %u2026 really should be changed to the HTML entity “…”, etc. WordPress is really confused on encoding, apparently.
Terrific Lamont campaign commercial idea.
Does anyone have footage of Lieberman lavishing praise on Michael Brown when he was being considered for appointment to FEMA?
That would make a GREAT campaign commercial for Lamont. Show the hearings, then cut to the aftermath of Katrina. It really says it all.
The clip would also look good in heavy circulation on You Tube.
Michael Brown’s appointment hearings are a perfect example of Lieberman rubber stamping Bush’s choices and encouraging the appointment of incompetent Bush lackeys. With DISASTROUS consequences.
Seriously. Lieberman does all the work of cementing his reputation as a Bush crony all by himself at this hearing.
Look forward to seeing if anyone can dig it up. I’ll see if I can get a transcript.
darkblack at 93
Punaise, you ham wit rye, you. ;>)
spellcheck:
Punaise, you ham wit wry, you. ;>)
No, no, no. He’s still Joe Lieberman, who people has been in public office for decades. He has 100 percent name recognition. And this is in a state that has recently elected an independent to the Senate in just this circumstance, where the guy felt the party had moved away from him. (Ironies abound, here.)
Silly comment conversion. I meant to show the entity code for horizontal ellipses. See HTML 4.0 entities for details.
Ooo looky, new shapes for us to screw-up in! Wozzat square thingermabobber stand for?
OT, via Froomkin, President Dickweed:
So, Mr. Bush, have you met with the family of every soldier and marine killed in Iraq? Or do you somehow figure out for that how to “honor” some and not others?
you are right, lotus– Froomkin is just such a wonder.
btw, Babington took a couple of my questions today. ha. he is a powertool for the admin, imho.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..nav=topnav
Redshift 120,
Of course Bush expects the family to come to him at the White House. He doesn’t waste his time going to them.
lieberman is NOT a democrat, he just uses our resources.
I could not care less if he causes a republican to win the election in his stead.
the democrats need to get behind lamont and toss lieberman on his butt
MAKE him run as a republcian
No, my argument is that at the point Joe loses the primary, he ceases to be Joe Lieberman. He becomes some sort of foul-smelling shell, a shambling wreck wearing a decaying Joe Lieberman mask.
Jayackroyd, the Joe Lieberman you are thinking of died when he came in 5th in New Hampshire. We’re only now noticing the stench because Ned poked the bloated corpse with a stick.
I think the real money quote from joe loseman is the insult offered to those CT voters who choose to exercize their franchise in the August primary
joementum as much as called these people whackos
“you just can’t be sure who will come out to vote on a hot August day” (or something like that)
that statement says that joe expects the whackos to vote, and the “normal” people to stay home
If I was a resident of the state of Conecticut, I’d have a serious question about the insult that the “joe-sen one” just offered to people who are active and informed enough to vote in spite of inclimate weather
hey joe, you slimy fucktard, are you saying that I am in some way unreliable or unacceptable because I chose to exercise my right to vote on a hot day in August ???
if so, go fuck yourself, pal
Background on the Michael Brown confirmation hearing provided below in the link. Again, this is a perfect example of Lieberman rubber stamping the Bush administration’s incompetent choices…with vivid and horrifying consequences. Lieberman needs to get beaten over the head with this.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/9/8/234553/9235
LindaR @ 116:
Its indictable either way
;>)
Jane,
Welcome to the neighborhood! If your big poodles want a playdate with my big poodles (near Kent, CT), just let us know.
A quote from Lieberman’s grilling of Michael Brown:
“I am glad the President has nominated someone already familiar with FEMA’s mission to become Deputy Director. Mr. Brown is currently General Counsel and Chief Operating Officer of the agency, a position he has held since February of 2001. Before joining the Bush Administration, I note from his resume, he served as executive director of the Independent Electrical Contractors in Denver. In the early 1980s, Mr. Brown served as staff director of the Oklahoma Senate’s Finance Committee, while serving on the Edmund, Oklahoma, City Council. He ran for Congress in the sixth district, and, in what I think is particularly useful experience, early in his career, was assistant city manager in Edmond, with responsibility for police, fire and emergency services.
[…]
Mr. Brown, you have extensive management experience. For this job, you will need it.”
off to watch France v. Portugal – Allez, le Bleus!
Jane wrote:
“I think it’s great that Hillary Clinton has stepped out and said she’ll support the Democratic candidate in the fall, let’s hope more will follow her lead.”
I’d just like to note that Russ Feingold is the senator who took the lead on this as per his clear remarks on Meet The Press two Sundays ago. I also applaud Senator Clinton for following Senator Feingold’s lead on the issue.
Just an extra pro-Lamont debate possibility.
Let us not forget Joe L. was the Senator who praised and then passed on Michael Brown to head up FEMA after only a few minutes of an oversight hearing.
That resonates. Everyone in the country knows Brown was a loser/crony/incompetent. I would tie that anvil around Joe on Thursday night for sure!
wxyz at 11:35 a.m.
Lieberman sure does sound like he is reading the administration’s script.
I just called Reid’s office and they have no statement about it at this time.
I told them they needed to have a statement one way or the other, soonest.
I mean, how radical a step could that be…”We will support the winner of the primary.” ?
I know this has been said before — but Joe’s recent Democrat/Independent waffling is clear evidence that he is determined to take the Dem party down with him, spoiled brat that he is (notice how is mother is always seems to be on the campaign trail with him?).
I am guessing that if the Dem powers-that-be will be only too happy (and relieved) to throw him overboard when it becomes clear that he will surely loose the primary. And it also stands to reason that very few Democratic voters — the kind who are motivated to get out and vote in a primary will be happy with his latest decision — he may have already sealed his fate on Aug 8th with it.
And Christy what a pleasant surprise to hear you turn up on Brian Lehrer this am!!!! You sounded great — really clear.
(btw Dimitri 72 — Joe may be a weasel, but that has nothing to do with whether or not he is jewish or not. I say this because I caught a faint whiff is anti-semitism in your post, which is not helpful.)
OT
Has anyone heard about the Muzzle Awards?
http://www.thephoenix.com/Prin…..x?id=16290
DSCC blog:
http://www.fromtheroots.org/
Harry Reid blog:
http://www.giveemhellharry.com…..ty/members
Both Josh and The Muck have some mighty interesting stories up right now . . .
Josh:
Ned’s stance on Net Neutrality
The Muck:
“Abramoff Had Access to DoJ, Ashcroft”
“Coulter Gets a Pass on Plagiarism?”
“McCain-Norquist Spat Grows”
Lotus, I read the TPM piece on Lamont and net neutrality. I think Josh, who has supported Lieberman quite a bit in th epast, is trying to create a confusion where none really exists. lamont says he supports the net nuetrality legislation. What more does Josh want? I mean, Lieberman never gave such a clear statement on Social Security privatization until long after it was dead….
Aha! New from Justin Rood: Universal Press Syndicate (distributor of Coulter’s column) claims it hadn’t heard of her plagiarism bust until Justin called for their comment, but will now contact NYP’s Barrie and investigate.
Given that I myself emailed the NYP column to the ed-page editor of the Sun-Sentinel the minute I saw that he carries Coulter (what was that, Friday? Saturday?), I ain’t quite buyin’.
QUICK … Someone set up a tea party for Sandbagger Joey Lieberman and MegaMasochist John McCain!
excerpt from The Hill …
Conservative Lobbyist Grover Norquist Attacks John McCain: “He Is Delusional”…
The Hill, Carrie Sheffield, July 5, 2006
Conservative activist Grover Norquist says a Senate report connecting him with convicted felon Jack Abramoff is a personal attack from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) that could hurt the senator’s recent efforts to woo the right for a presidential bid.
Norquist says a Senate Indian Affairs Committee report last month outlining his efforts to funnel money from Abramoff’s tribal clients to former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed is riddled with half-truths and falsely implicates his nonprofit group, Americans for Tax Reform (ATR), in wrongdoing.
MORE at http://www.thehill.com/mccain.html
Sooooo … Rape Gurney Joey Lieberman needs to hear how his new best buddies – Bush Thugs, Inc. and the Retardo Republicans – treat “their own.”
Okay. Okay. We all know McCain is a master copraphage (animal that eats the shit of other animals).
Whether it’s anti-torture amendments, fake attempts to look like election reform, “Black baby” lies (how the GOP cocksniffers characterized McCain’s Bangladesh adopted baby to knock him out of the 2000 GOP presidential candidate running) … no matter what the GOP slimeballs do to Johnnie McCain, he always bends over and kisses Bush, Cheney, Rove and Norquist (above) buttocks. And makes (sucks) up.
Still, Rape Gurney Joe oughta know about his new Best Buds.
imm 139, I agree: it couldn’t be plainer.
Excuse me — Barrie is NYP’s expert source, not its reporter.
For those of you who missed Christy on Brian Lehrer’s show, this might help you. It’ got epu’d – - seem’s I’ve fallen two threads behind.
Sigh.
* * *
You can podcast the Brian Lehrer show. Today’s show isn’t up yet, but when it is, iTunes will put it in my library.
To podcast, go to WNYC.org. Scroll down to “Am I Blue” and click on the “more” link.
That takes you to the Brian Lehrer Show’s page. On the right, click on the Podcast link or MP3 link, if that’s what you use.
On the linked page, click on the podcast provider you use, in my case, iTunes.
Presto! The next thing you know iTunes appears on your screen and the Brian Lehrer Show shows up in your podcast directory. iTunes immediately begins downloading the first show it sees in your subscription.
For those of you who haven’t taken the jump to podcasting, go ahead and get an iTunes or other podcasting provider account. There are going to be more and more things you’ll want to hear – - or see, if you’re ahead of my curve – - and you might as well get the means to hear them sooner rather than later.
A hint from this techno-dud: Don’t try to find your programs at the iTunes music store. Instead, go to the source of your desired show: AAR, PBS, WNYC, whatever, and follow the subscription directions from there.
Don’t ask me how WNYC knew whose iTunes account to put that subscription in (I don’t think I want to know) but it did.
Once you have transferred the progam from your library to your iPod or MP3 player, you can look like all the other techno-zombies at the gym or in the grocery, listening to your favorite liberal show as you go about your daily chores. :)
Hmmm. Several commenters suggest that thousands of voters will vote for Lieberman…”just because”. These voters are apparently, dumb and stupid and ill-informed. (my language, not the commenters) I just don’t know.
Is there an example in recent times of an upstart candidate defeating the well-entrenched incumbent in a primary? If so, what factors led to the upstart’s victory? Surely the incumbent ALSO had legions of ill-informed voters…and yet he lost.
Ghostman
Yes Immanentize. I think Lamont couldn’t be clearer on netneutrality. I am sure that Lamont is aware of the issues that librarians and researchers have with censorship as well.
Lamont: As you point out, I started up a company some years ago and we compete with the largest cable companies out there. You mention Comcast and AT&T. We primarily provide service to college campuses. We build systems at probably a couple hundred campuses around the country.
It’s very important that you don’t allow the ISPs and the large operators out there to determine who gets access to what content. When it comes down to net neutrality, this is a pipe and we’re providing equal access to all of the content providers out there. And the last thing you want is large conglomerates picking and choosing who gets access to what.
Taken from an old interview
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/6/1/115351/2889
Let’s give some props to Feingold for actually being the first Presidential contender to confirm he’s supporting the Democratic primary candidate. Feingold and Clinton both deserve a thumbs-up for basic party decency.
What about the candidate for governor serving as the headlining act? What is happening in the governor’s race%u2013is there a primary? The candidate for governor should be able to act as a leader in holding the party together and energizing the base (along with Lamont). Who needs Joe to do that?
Neuro, we’ve got a complicated situation here in CT. The incumbent governor, Rell, is a Repub and is enormously popular. On the Dem side are two duking it out in a primary for that ticket’s spot. I’ll be voting for DeStephano, the current mayor of New Haven in that.
Now, it’s doubtful that even the Repub candidate for Senator will ride on Rell’s coattails. CT doesn’t seem to have a problem when it comes to splitting their votes in numerous ways ever since they got rid of the straight party line lever.
Ghostman (145). I must chide you on the “stupid” or “ill-informed” part. Many, many people, have limited access to information, the web etc. Some have no access. There are a lot of seniors who are disabled and don’t have people to read to them &/or don’t know how to begin with new technology provided they could afford the expense. It is very difficult for some people to get information on issues. This is partly what is referred to as the digital divide. It exists.
new thread
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..zy-doings/
Slightly OT and this will probably get EPU’ed but…
This Lameman/Lamont race is IMPORTANT but its just one race (called Boxer, opined about,”DNCC should commit to the winner of primary…”). We still need to keep our eyes on the bigger ball, the need to take back the house, this is still win-able. Christy in her talk on WNYC, kept bringing up the other issues that we all are concerned about. I think we need to set an ‘agenda’ in order of importance and what’s do-able for the Fall elections. We need a ‘laundry list’ of talking points/things that are wrong/things that we can convince the American people that Democrats can DO BETTER. Please don’t get me wrong, I think Conn. is super important but its 1 of 50. We CAN do better. Thank you Christy for nailing so many things that I have said in this thread. And thanks Jane for ALL that you do.
Scary Thought of the Day:
Bush planted a sloppy smooch on Henry Cuellar (DINO-TX) at the SOTU speech. Cuellar then defeated Ciro Rodriguez in the Dem primary last March.
Bush planted a very similar sloppy smooch on Joe Leaverman (DINO-CT) at the SOTU speech. Will history repeat itself? Gawd, I hope not.
You can see where your ‘vote’ counts:
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/9354
Ghostman 63
You ask, “Are they the Democrat small business owners?”
First, most Democrats don’t much like the Frank-Lunzt-decreed use of “Democrat” as an adjective.
Second, I am a small business owner. Our business is being ruined by this criminal Bush Administration. All the federal money is going to the war, so local and state programs are squeezed. Now our state is raising taxes on everything to pay for those programs. That squeezes our business as well as our customers.
Gas prices are eating up formerly discretionary income, so our customers don’t have the money to buy fun toys and supplies for their dogs and cats from us.
We pay our employees’ health insurance (Blue Cross) and that is killing us, too.
As our Constitution is dismantled, day by day, my rights as a citizen as well as a business owner, are threatened.
So, why do you assume small business owners would support Lieberman?
wxyz at 114 said: “Does anyone have footage of Lieberman lavishing praise on Michael Brown when he was being considered for appointment to FEMA? That would make a GREAT campaign commercial for Lamont. Show the hearings, then cut to the aftermath of Katrina. It really says it all.”
————
42 Minutes of Shame
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/9/8/234553/9235
That’s the time it took to confirm Brownie as Dep. Director of FEMA. This was in 2002 when the Dems had control of Congress. Who was the chairman of the Committee of Govt. Affairs that had “oversight” for this appointment? Well, none other than Bush’s favorite Democrat. Joenertia gave his buddy’s appointment of a horse lawyer to FEMA the old 42 minutes rubber stamp approval.
This should have received a lot more play in the media during the post-Katrina inquiries, but the lapdogs in the MSM missed it.
Jane, did you mean “give-a-fuck about” instead of “give fuck-all about”? I’m not a grammar expert when it comes to expletives.
BTW, Jane, did you get the Alfred E. Lieberman graphic?
Joe’s an idiot, and I hope the good people of CT have enough sense to send him that message.
What about the candidate for governor serving as the headlining act? What is happening in the governor’s race%u2013is there a primary? The candidate for governor should be able to act as a leader in holding the party together and energizing the base (along with Lamont). Who needs Joe to do that?
The new governor (Jodie Rell) is wildly popular (because she is NOT Roland) she has aprox 80% approval rating, and will not loose. Rabid dems will vote for her.
The AFLCIO is backing Lieberman, but the members will vote for Lamont(see my comment at the earlier lieberman post below).
As to who is voting for him?? considering that you have to go online to get anything other than propaganda – even here in a blue state.. it’s amazing, really that Lamont has as much support as he does have.
The people who will vote for Lieberman are the ones who remember his reputation as a straight shooter. They are also the ones who work in the defense industry. CT is big in the defense industry. Sure, Pratt and Hamilton Standard are but shadows of what they once were, they still rule around here. Then there is the shipyard at Groton(electric boat), and the Helicopter plant (Sikorsky – owned by UTC along with Pratt & Ham & the elevator company) Lieberman has been successful in keeping some govt contracts here. That’s why the AFLCIO are backing him. But the individual dem voters who know what he’s been doing there in DC, are very angry, and want him out.
You have it exactly ass-backwards. Sen. Lieberman’s voting record is down the line Democratic. Show me a single vote where Sen. Lieberbman defied a demand by the party leadership for loyalty. It’s never happened.
What’s happened instead is that the Democratic Party has been hijacked by a small group of well-funded radicals. The primary on August 8 will only attract about 10-15% of the registered Democrats in the state, and registered Democrats are only about 30% of all registered voters. The result is that 3-5% of all the registered voters in the state will cast Lieberman aside because he won’t kowtow to their radical demands.
Fortunately, there is a general election in which the independents (who outnumber the Democrats and Republicans in Connecticut) will have the final say. My prediction: in a three way vote, Sen. Lieberman will get 60%, and the Democratic Party leaders will be on their hands and knees begging Sen. Lieberman to vote with the Democratic Party caucus.
Looks like it is time to call the office of Biden, Boxer and Salazar. The Times is reporting that the three will be campaigning for Joe in CT.
So tired of the “clubbiness”.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..ref=slogin
I called Boxer’s office and although he also grumbled about Lieberman’s petition effort, apparently, Boxer’s office and PAC needs a few more calls and emails.
Boxer 213-894-5000
http://www.pacsforachange.com
Call the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee at (202) 224-2447 and tell them you want them to issue a SPECIFIC statement that they will FULLY support whoever the primary winner is. No more of this fucking namby-pamby BULLSHIT of not wanting to alienate Lieberman just in case. He has already voted against us too many times to be trusted EVER AGAIN.
Uh DBL, have you already forgotten about that traitor’s vote for cloture on Alito? A lot of us haven’t and we will NOT forgive that slimeball who has proved again and again his only loyalty is as that of a puppy to her master….and that master ain’t us.
Joe Lieberman for Toolbag!
DBL — Nice of you to show up in the EPU Zone of this thread where you will not see much challenge.
You are making assumption on your own as well, or swagging details. Addressing your assertion that Lieberman votes straight party line, records show that Lieberman’s voting record through 2004 is in the bottom of the Democrats, and when ranked against all 100 Senators, Lieberman is only 41st on the scale of Democratic voting.
Add his miserable record on meeting with constituents in CT (on which his own staffer said Lieberman hadn’t been home in 6 years), and you’ve got considerable discontent.
Compare Lieberman’s voting record (75.5%) through 2004 with Dodd (86.5%) and he still does poorly.
The two final straws were the Alito vote on cloture, and Lieberman’s position on Social Security. Both of these issues have enormous impact on all Americans and both are examples where Lieberman failed to do the right thing, by Connecticut constituents, by the American public, not to mention the Democratic Party.
The Democratic Party and progressive constituents of CT deserve better, and through democratic (little d) processes, they should get it. If Lieberman were a real Democratic candidate and a real believer in the democratic process, he’d recognize the voice of the people through their votes in the primary.
Maybe my calculus is wrong here, but if Lieberman and Lamont are BOTH on the ballot in November, wouldn’t that benefit Democrats? Both Lamont and Lieberman supporters would drive up voting interest among left and centerist voters. A spirited three way race with Schlesinger bringing up the rear would increase voter turnout.
Every Democratic household is getting calls or visits from Lamont or Lieberman. They are provoked and energized about this election, and this will benefit Farrell and Courtney.
woohoo Rayne (166), you rock. It’s a litany that makes my teeth grind so badly I can barely pry them apart: Alito, prescription drugs, social security, bankruptcy, oil, Iraq . . .