
Boy, it’s a crazy news day today.
– MSNBC is reporting that Ken Lay has been found dead of a heart attack. More details as they come out on this. The legal reporter with whom they are speaking just compared Lay to the characters in Bonfire of the Vanities. Crooks and Liars has a link to a Texas station and the news.
– Jesus General has an appalling — and I mean APPALLING — look at some asanine "expose the ACLU plaintiff" campaign. (Because, you know, privacy is so important to wingnuts and all. *rolls eyes to the heavens*) And I just want to say for the record that the "Christian" pastor who participated in harassing the Jewish family in this particular story should be reported to his ministry’s oversight offices, because that is conduct unbecoming a man or woman of the cloth. Period. For shame!
And adults yelling at a young boy who was already feeling persecuted for his beliefs — who are these people, that they are so unfeeling and so ready to cheer on each others’ meanness that they cannot, for one compassionate moment, stop to think about the boy’s feelings? I’d ask WWJD, but these people would have no clue whatsoever. The Bible is more than just a book that you beat people about the head with — try reading it and absorbing it’s message instead of just thumping your chest and talking about how much better you are than others. Adults congratulating each other for verbally abusing a little boy. FOR SHAME! (And yes, this sort of ganging up on the minority in the room thing pisses me off…can you tell?)
– Iraq’s Prime Minister is calling for an independent investigation into the rape/slaying of an Iraqi teenager (aged 14/15, according to some reports) and her family at the hands of a US soldier. And, according to the AP (via NYTimes), he is calling for the Iraqi government to reconsider the immunity deal made for US soldiers in Iraq:
”We believe that the immunity given to members of coalition forces encouraged them to commit such crimes in cold blood (and) that makes it necessary to review it,” al-Maliki told reporters during a visit to Kuwait.
He called for either an independent Iraqi investigation a joint investigation with coalition forces into the March 12 rape and murder of an Iraqi girl. Her mother, father and sister were also killed in the attack at their home in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad.
Former Army Pfc. Steve D. Green was charged with rape and four counts of murder Monday in federal court in Charlotte, N.C. At least four other U.S. soldiers still in Iraq are under investigation.
”We are going to demand an independent Iraqi investigation or at least a joint investigation between us and the multinational forces,” al-Maliki said.
– The CIA has closed down its Alec Station unit which was charged with hunting down Osama Bin Laden. Apparently, the unit was closed down late last year, but the information is just now being told to the public. Has there been Congressional oversight on this? Who the hell knows, since both the House and Senate Intel chairmen have been Bush Administration rubber stamps. The NCTC took over intel issues from the CTC when Negroponte took the helm — but the CIA, until this point, had on the ground ops, coordinating with the DoD, as far as anyone has known. All that swagger over the "dead or alive" photo op, and we just up and walk away when we supposedly have Bin Laden cornered in the mountainous region of the Pakistani/Afghan border? Something is up…and I’ll be damned if I can figure out what the strategy is behind this, other than Bin Laden isn’t much of a priority for the Bushies these days. (All hat, no cattle…)
"What the court is doing is attempting to suppress creative thinking," said Professor Yoo, who now teaches law at the University of California, Berkeley. "The court has just declared that it’s going to be very intrusive in the war on terror. They’re saying, ‘We’re going to treat this more like the way we supervise the criminal justice system.’ "
It’s called judicial review, the rule of law and balance of powers. You might want to look into it, seeing how you teach at a law school and all…of course, had you followed the legal precedents instead of writing memoranda that colored so far outside the lines that sane lawyers thought you had gone mad, perhaps the Court wouldn’t have smacked you on the ass so hard. I’m just sayin’. (You might also want to look up "legal precedent." I’d start with the Youngstown case, were I you.)
– As someone with a dear friend on his way to Iraq as I type, articles like this on Ramadi are beyond frustrating and infuriating. Asking our soldiers to continually play whack-a-mole is not leadership, nor is it a competent foreign or military policy. Donald Rumsfeld still has a job…why, exactly?
– Speaking of people who still have jobs, still waiting for an answer as to whether or not Rove has a valid security clearance and whether any internal investigation was done per the protocols required when a high level clearance holder speaks to a non-authorized person (say Matt Coooper or Bob Novak, just for kicks) about classified information without prior authorization in violation of their SF-312 requirements…just wondering.
– Japan has called for an emergency session of the UN Security Council today to deal with the North Korean launch of missiles in "tests" yesterday. I heard an interview with Bolton earlier where he was all keen on the Security Council. Funny how he’s all happy to play by the rules sometimes, and then say "screw them" at other times, isn’t it? Here’s a thought, for a change how about we try competent diplomatic initiatives wherein we get the whole of the Security Council to back concensus pressure against the provocative actions by North Korea? (Oh wait, I forgot, this is John Bolton and the Bush Administration…I’ll anticipate reports of pouting, a Bolton tantrum, and him storming back across the street to the US mission any moment now because he didn’t get his way entirely…maybe they’ve been taking lessons in concensus building from Joe Lieberman.)
– Still no clear winner in Mexico. Anyone else get that Groundhog Day deja vu feeling?
– Thus far, once again, the only corporate media coverage of Murray’s huge slice of intrepid reporter pie is from Dan Froomkin, whose column once again rocks today. (We covered it here and here yesterday. And EW has a great take as well here.)
– Anyone else get that Soviet May Day parade feeling from yesterday’s location for the Bush speech at Fort Bragg? Lots of symbolism, but where’s the honesty and the substance?

(Jason Reed/Reuters — July 4, 2006, NC, USA)

(May Day — 1947 — Moscow, USSR.)
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Add to that the fact that Rush Limburger is getting off (pun intended) scot free.
Can’t wait for Ken Lay’s autopsy.
Arghhh!
Love the frog pic, Christy!
Oh, and the Iraqi PM calling for “reconsideration” of the immunity deal for US soldiers is a huge deal. Trying US troops in Iraqi courts is not going to play well here at home, even if they’re guilty as hell. Does the new Iraq have a death penalty?
ditto Frank at 2
Frank, I am interested in seeing whether the military will take back jurisdiction over this case (they can legally, it is done all the time) and seek the death penalty for those involved…. It might be the only way to appease the Iraqis.
Adding disgust on top of disgust, seeing the news report the stalking, raping and execution of a girl and her family as “raping a woman” by news really is unbelievable. Now I’m sure the local news shows just parrot what they get from the national news outlets, but still. Apparently a 14 year-old Iraqi girl isn’t as important as a 14 year-old American girl.
I heard some of Bush’s speech. He was honest -said he was going to stay. He also said that to do anything else would betray all the deaths of US servicepeople the war has caused -whether that was honest but deluded or something else, I can’t say.
Is it true that the Bush administration flatly turned down offer of negotiations with Sunni insurgents that was discussed by Iraqi government a few weeks ago? Anyone know of a link to a story on that?
Boy people close to Bush sure seem to be dropping like flys…First Phillip Merrill, who is connected to the missing billions in Iraq, and now Kenny Boy Lay, who let Bush use his personal corporate jet to campaign with in 2000.
“Merrill death ruled suicide; Body found in water weighed down by an anchor; Merrill shot through head in a replay of 1978 “suicide” of CIA Deputy Director John Paisley.
The body of Maryland publisher Philip Merrill was discovered Monday in the Chesapeake Bay near Poplar Island with a gunshot wound to the head and weighed down with an anchor. Merrill’s body was discovered 11 miles from where his boat was found last week. As with Paisley, investigators concluded Merrill committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with a shotgun. Investigators ruled Merrill’s death a suicide even before an autopsy was performed, An experienced medical examiner told WMR that bodies found in the water rapidly lose toxicological and other critical evidence, including the presence of drugs in the bloodstream.”
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
(Scroll down to June 21, 2006
O.S. Outre du sujet qui est moi!
Je devine France, oui la France est lui!
And more y more Obrador to door: (As CHS linked above)
Rovian infiltration in Mexico, NYTimes and Post articles today.
Rovian speak layed out in WaTimes:
http://washingtontimes.com/nat…..-8130r.htm
Everyone should read the Jesus’ General post, especially if you think “It Can’t Happen Here.”
Ghostman brings up in the last thread an interesting point…there are as yet no polls showing Lamont with a lead. Sure, getting a third at the convention was a surprise. But if you’re an 18 year incumbent and former VP candidate, what has to be happening for you to take out “insurance policies” on your own primary? (Research project for someone: when was the last time an incumbent Senator lost a primary?) I think it’s always worth assuming that people running these things are smart, at least in an unprincipled, reptilian sort of way. So there must be a reason for taking out the policy, especially one with such obvious downsides.
I can only think of two things that would cause such a reaction, but perhaps Jane can enlighten us. The first is a poll showing that, among Democrats who have heard of him, Lamont has 75%+ support, coupled with a poll showing that only 60% of likely Dem voters have heard of him yet. The second is that several big-money donors are telling him they won’t donate to his campaign for fear he won’t be Senator.
My own money is on the first of these; the second one doesn’t really lead one to think that an Independent campaign is the answer.
And, since nobody seems to be doing the honors:
Fitz!
These people are us.
immanentize – From last thread. Regarding Michael Brown. Read upthread a bit. I discussed him quite a bit and provided a few links. I think Lamont should definitely hammer on this point in the debates.
EVERYONE knows about Michael Brown and Katrina.
Everyone should be appalled by the frivolity and go along to get along attitude expressed by Lieberman at the Michael Brown FEMA hearings.
Lamont needs to remind the voters of CT that this happened on Lieberman’s watch, with Lieberman’s “oversight”.
Christy,
Reaching for the towel to mop up my lost coffee over John Yoo, that “creative thinker” from Berkeley!
wxyz — good on you, you are so right about how that will play well for Lamont
Interesting that on the NPR afternoon news report regarding Rush Limbaugh – he got off for his meds bottle on return from the Dominican Republic, but the reporter did not mention his previous conviction and that he was on probation.
Peterr at 15 — sorry, was my disgust showing? *g* Perhaps I ought to have included a spew warning with my rant…
As a nation, America is hereby declared certifiably insane.
Regarding the General’s post today: Coincidentally I watched the movie “Saved” last night – and the similarities are interesting (including the lone Jewish girl in the school).
“The Bible is more than just a book that you beat people about the head with…”
In the movie the line was something close to “The Bible is not a weapon!”
I’d recommend the movie for some light entertainment.
JayinVT at 17 — was the report focused solely on getting out of federal charges — or out of both federal and state charges? Because there were two layers of legal accountability in Limbaugh’s actions…and if he cut some deal for increased supervision or other state issues, then the feds might let him slide. I’d be interested to see a link if anyone has a news article on it to see how it was reported.
Christy @ 18
I’ve always wondered how Yoo got a position at Boalt Hall, and now I get it! *g*
starcane at 20 — “Saved!” is laugh out loud funny. And who knew that McCauley Caulkin really had some acting chops? I agree with you on the movie rec — we loved it. (Of course, we are a snide household, FWIW…)
I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the harassment in Delaware of the Jewish family (expose the ACLU plaintiff) is literally criminal. Someone should be arrested for uttering a threat. In Canada they would be charged with a ‘hate crime’.
got epu’d and I like my post so much I want to repost it, talking about the interview with liberal bloggers on lehrer;
I did not like what atrios said about taxes and I need to write a blog on “reducing taxes”
there is no such thing as “reducing taxes” there are only loans taken against future return
it is PERFECTLY FINE to TARGET a TAX INCENTIVE, and we can get plenty of people back on our team if we nake it clear we are NOT AGAINST LOWERING TAXES.
we will call this TAX REDUCTIONS AND ECONOMIC INCENTIVES
tax incentives are not gifts, they are economic strategy targeted to inspire growth in particular ecomonic segments
THOSE ARE LOANS, AND THE LOAN HAS TO BE RETURNED FROM THE SEGMENT THEY TARGET
THAT’S the way we have to present our position on lowering taxes
we have to make it CLEAR we are FOR tax incentives and we have to make it CLEAR those insentives will be goinng to the economic segments NEED to be promoted
like ALTERNATIVE FUELS.
and we make it CLEAR the money gets RETURNED by the segment that the tax strategy targets
hmmm
I like it so far, will work on more at another time
I hope the irony is not lost – I’ve been thinking in a similar vein that in fact we lost the cold war.
Red Square has relocated to the Mall in DC – the Kremlin has been recreated on it and the Gulag has moved to Guantanamo.
If it weren’t so sad it’d be screamingly funny.
Oh well.
Per John Yoo:
No, John. If they did that, you and your bosses would be in jail for conspiracy to violate The War Crimes Act of 1996. The long arm of the law grinds slowly, but it brings evil-doers to justice eventually.
OT -
Howzabout a moratorium on World Cup updates?
I plan on watching the replay this evening.
Thanks!
Wilhel Kietel was a free thinker
Kietel’s “note” about the Geneva Conventions were strikingly similar to Abu gonsales’ “note” about the Geneva Conventions
we put Kietel to death for his “free thinking”
if Yoo is so smart. he should know about this one, right ???
feel free to chew on that one for a while
Your comment: “The Bible is more than just a book that you beat people about the head with %u2014 try reading it and absorbing it’s message instead of just thumping your chest and talking about how much better you are than others.” absolutely rocks. I am convinced now, more than ever to start a sunday feature on my lowly blog that emphasizes the endless passages that the wing-nut bible thumpers seem to ignore. I could start with the beautitudes…..
I’d ask WWJD, but these people would have no clue whatsoever.
Beginning with the fact that he was Jewish…
To add to the festivities, this freshly-EPU’d note:
New from Justin Rood: Universal Press Syndicate, distributor of Coulter’s column, claims it hadn’t heard of her plagiarism bust until Justin called for their comment (because none of UPS’s client-papers had called to complain), but they have now contacted NYP’s source Barrie and will investigate.
Given that I myself emailed the NYP column to the ed-page editor of the Sun-Sentinel the minute I saw that he carries Coulter (what was that, Friday? Saturday?), I ain’t quite buyin’.
Rush skates.
Almost as awkward a picture as Russ on phizer
According to Minetta’s testimony, Cheney ordered planes to NOT SHOOT DOWN the inbound jet that hit the Pentagon.
http://palitonepress.blogspot……dence.html
Mineta responds to an opening question by Commissioner Hamilton about the events in the PEOC and an alleged shoot down order. He describes a conversation between Cheney and a young man:
Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”
http://www.911truth.org/articl…..4164122860
911 was an inside job.
Undeniable Liberal-
Can you find one that says that all sin is sin and there is no “Sin Spectrum of Magnitude”?
Remind them that they are indeed sinners too, and to quick picking on gay people.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot…we are ALL created in God’s image.
As a former Berkeley free-thinker myself, I’d just like to say to John Yoo: “Boo-frickin’-Yoo!” I will be withholding my $20 contribution to the alumni fund (hey, I majored in English – not economics) this year and instead write a letter demanding his Bush-licking head.
I got EPU’d two threads back, but I think this is relevant history. I want Lieberwhiner gone at least as much as anyone, but …
The Bible is more than just a book that you beat people about the head with
Don’t you mean “upside the head”
Um, my read on the Rush Limbaugh story is that Palm Beach isn’t going to file charges, but he’s still in danger of getting hit with charges in Miami-Dade, since that’s where the prescription was written and filled.
One time at a stoplight in our little downtown, I spied “WWED” on the rear bumper of the car ahead of me. Couldn’t help myself and jumped out.
“Who’s E?” I asked the driver.
“ELVIS!” she laughed.
[less amusing: oil just closed at a new-record $75.19/bl]
l’autre sujet. allez, allez!
Et Fitz, pourquoi pas.
Pomme Fitz!
Le moratoire est difficile. OK, Je blog de volonte seulement en francais ou pas du tout.
Y AMLO adicional a permanecer!
Christy,
One more outrageous story for you—Limbaugh not held on criminal charges, but peaceful veteran arrested at va center while drinking a cup of coffee…
http://www.selvesandothers.org/article14755.html
Christy said a couple of posts below that someone at the DSCC is saying it will back the winner of the Connecticut Democratic primary for U.S. Senate. Raw Story is also reporting that:
“In blow to Lieberman, senior party official says campaign committee will back winner of Democratic party in Connecticut”
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0705.html
Still no named source, however.
Just wanted to remind everyone that the Code Pink Troops Home Fast continues in front of the White House. There are teach-ins and meetings from 12-2 and 5-7 everyday. If you’re in the DC area, come on down to show your support.
Check them out at Troops Home Fast
peace,
jim
What I find so amazing with the Down-with-the-ACLU so let’s persecute Jews instead was this quote that I read on a blog called Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion (quote source via this blog):
Try as I might, I cannot reconcile that sentiment with this account:
The raucous crowd that is behaving like what, exactly? humans? monkeys? jackals? paramecia?
Jesus wept.
For those of you interested in another take on Yoo’s “creativity” from another former OLC lawyer, take a look at http://balkin.blogspot.com/
(I’m reposting it from yesterday.)
In other interesting news, mentioned by Mary on an earlier thread, the Italian authorities are going after their own intelligence agents (and some of ours) for their role in the rendition of an Egyptian kidnapped off an Italian street. There’s an interesting diary by LondonYank at dkos linking those arrests to the yellowcake forgeries and several comments linking that in turn to Plamegate. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/5/105524/4085
My own comment over there, for what it’s worth: “Sounds like Addington and Yoo and Cheney too are going to have to take Italy off their list of places they can safely travel. Welcome to Pinochet’s world, mofos.”
Lieberman sent out a letter to constituents explaining his decision to try again as an independent “bullshit moose party” candidate if he loses the primary as a Democrat. Here’s a link.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/co…..endent_run
Christy – the arrest warrant for the Stephens in the rape and murder of Abeer is here:
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/…..06cmp.html
(thanks to Erdla, Du’s fiance and a legal whiz in her own right)
and MFI has an article from The Guardian by Haifa Angana, an Iraqi novelist and human rights advocate. She was jailed and tortured under Saddam. Her article is titled All Iraq is Abu Ghraib :
Our streets are prison corridors and our homes cells as the occupiers go about their strategic humiliation and intimidation.
http://gorillasguides.blogspot.com/
MFI adds an interview with her as well – very important reading to understand the situation of women in Iraq and the current state of human rights.
(have to go right back to work – heading to UK this weekend and too much is on my desk that needs doing beforehand … see you all tonight)
starcane and RH,
Mrs BC and I caught Saved! last week, and also thought it was hilarious and right on point in its portrayal of the Jeebus-lovin’-Rapture-Rightists.
Another really on-point movie is Team America. It’s done by Trey Parker (one of the South Park guys, and it’s right on target to BushCo philosophies. Warning: it’s not for little goobers — there’s some puppet porn and lots and lots of language issues (the main song lyrics begin, “America! Fuck Yeah! …” and head downhill from there. The portrayal of Kim Jong-Il is hilarious.
Now if I just wasn’t worried about my son heading over to Korea for three weeks of officer makee-learnee at the DMZ …
Keep repeating, “It’s good to laugh.”
BC
Jeannine Garafalo just floated the notion on Air America that Ken Lay is not really dead, but has gone underground with the millions he socked away … not so far-fetched, really. Why wasn’t he taken into custody?
Bargain Countertenor
“What happened was that Mondragon split off the liberal vote of the Democratic Party”
In Connecticut, Joe Lieberman is unlikely to split off the liberal vote of the Democratic Party.
Somerby lets FDL have both barrels today on The Daily Howler. Does that qualify as an “crazy doings?”
tom — chicago @ 12:21 pm (#34) – BS repellent on the Minetta testimony:
http://screwloosechange.blogsp…..-said.html
Why , exactly, would Berkley want John Yoo teaching the law there since his grasp of it is so tenious. Oh, he must teach Neocon Creationism Law 101…
With things this crazy in July, one can only imagine what will happen in August.
I think we can probably give up any notion that this Congress will assert any oversight on the administration. I mean, come on – how bad does it have to get before they do something? What is their tipping point?
Am beginning to think “Rubber Stamp Republican Congress” should be replaced by the HUTA Congress – “Heads Up Their Asses” Congress – it’s the only explanation I have for why they CAN’T SEE what is going on.
Bush is probably already packing for August at the sleep-away camp that is Crawford, and begging Laura to please let him invite more than three friends to go with him. No doubt, he’ll take the entire West Wing, so no one will be around to get the memo that something big is brewing.
Baseball season can’t end fast enough; thank God that the football pre-season is almost here.
Robert @ 12:32 pm (#50) – He was released on his own recognizance pending sentencing. Not an unusual thing for rich white collar criminals.
liberalrob — I saw it — and your point is? We let people have it on a daily basis — as does the Daily Howler — and some days we praise people, and so does the Daily Howler. He’s entitled to his opinion. Just as he was entitled to his opinion praising Peter Daou’s take on Boehlert’s book the other day. If you are trying to start some sort of internecine blog warfare, you picked the wrong blog.
It appears that the advocates of torture view the Hamdan decision as an opportunity to re-legitimize the practices. See Glenn Greenwald on Alan Dershowitz:
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..html#links
There must be some better use for human “creativity.”
Somerby has been acting like a half-wit for quite some time now.
Aw yawl with the Ken-Lay-isn’t-so-dead theories, now really. Isn’t it enough for you that he literally died of fright and/or shame? True, he didn’t log all the suffering he put thousands of others through, but it did for him.
OfT: “Libby’s Contradictory NIE Leak Stories”
by emptywheel
“Scooter Libby’s claim to have leaked the NIE is getting increasing attention, not least because it lies at the core of Murray Waas’ latest. But the media is missing the underlying importance of the leak. So I’m writing a post showing that Libby’s contradictory stories about the NIE get right to the issue of leaking Valerie Plame’s identity….”
Here’s a great Froomkin-ism to file away for future reference (perhaps a future post?), from today’s chat at WaPo:
“A beat reporter — digging away on a daily basis — is a fearsome beast.”
(I’ll bet there’s a great photo somewhere that could illustrate this – or darkblack could create one . . .)
pb @ 12:36 pm (#54) – To my non-lawyer’s way of thinking, there’s no explanation that involves excellence at legal analysis. Of course, as he says, he was a very creative lawyer while employed by the Bush Administration.
Everyone should be appalled by the frivolity and go along to get along attitude expressed by Lieberman at the Michael Brown FEMA hearings.
Lamont needs to remind the voters of CT that this happened on Lieberman’s watch, with Lieberman’s “oversight”.
wxyz, I walked in on a new Lamont commercial this morning that was showing pictures of the Katrina victims only the voice over was moving from Katrina to health care. With each new topic of importance to Dems, was a new crowd of people with signs looking for help in each of these areas, but they were depicted like the victims of Katrina.
It was excellent. The whole message was that of Lieberman leaving his constituents stranded and helpless.
What a morning, too. When my radio alarm went off this morning it was playing a Ned Lamont commercial and when I went in to grab my cup of coffee, the kitchen TV had that commercial on. I was surrounded. :)
Absolutely love the frog!
Steve Soto on the Mexican Election — it seems 3.5 million uncounted ballots have been discovered, and Obrador has a 2.5% lead.
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/008134.php
Let this be a lesson to the Rove GOP Gangsters — when you want a stolen election to stay stolen, don’t subcontract it to outsiders!!!
Professor Foland, great comment at 11:51 am, thanks.
I think Somerby’s point is valid- the post by Roger Ailes was unfair to Klein, whatever his crimes against progressivism, and if we are going to be successful in changing people’s perceptions of us as lefty lunatics we must be careful to be accurate when we pillory people. It’s not “internecine blog war” or anything grandiose like that, it’s being accountable for what you put up on your front page.
Neurophius,
Agreed, Holy Joe isn’t going to split off the liberal (progressive, call it what you like) vote. Instead, he’ll split off the conservative Democratic vote.
The example wasn’t intended to create an exact analogy, it was intended to point out the consequences of third party runs. Often it’s the case that the third party candidate draws votes from both established parties (cf, Ross Perot who drew votes from both Clinton and Bush I). But when the third candidate runs from well to the left (or right, in the case of Holy Joe) of center they’ll draw more votes from one side.
If the Republicans don’t maintain party discipline in this fracas it is possible that Holy Joe will draw more R votes than D votes as an independent. I’m not convinced that R’s are as undisciplined in the voting booth as D’s are, though.
BC
At least Ken Lay was convicted of his crimes before dying. That’s something, at least. It’s on record that he did, in fact, commit crimes.
liberalrob: that horse is dead — stop flogging that carcass
Re: asking WWJD?
Perhaps I’m missing something since I am not myself a Christian, but from what I can tell the relevent question in Christian morality is not at all “What Would Jesus Do?” but rather “How Would I Want You to Act Toward Me if the Tables Were Turned?”.
There are many things that Jesus did that it doesn’t make moral sense for any mortal to do (e.g.: deciding that a fig tree that isn’t bearing fruit, even though for it was not in the season for the fig tree to bear fruit, must be cursed by a demon and destroying the tree; being so tactless with Mary and Martha; etc.) — and Christian belief justifies this by saying “of course Jesus can do these things — he’s part of God”. … so asking WWJD? doesn’t really make much sense. OTOH, assuming that an important part of religious morality is paying attention to whatever whomever you believe to be God or God’s kin is telling you, then part and parcel of Christian morality is the Golden Rule. So if these people wouldn’t happily move to Iran and be persecuted (which maybe they would — some of these people have huge persecution complexes … this is essentially the flaw in the “positive Golden Rule” identified by Nietzsche, nu?), then they shouldn’t be persecutors themselves.
Yes, puppethead, and for all of American history to come, “Ken Lay” will mean only that one thing.
Beal, I believe the proper term is “About the head and shoulders”
In Thy mercy…..
“And adults yelling at a young boy who was already feeling persecuted for his beliefs %u2014 who are these people?”
Well, some called them the SA, others the Brown Shirts, still others the “party fighters.” But they all mean the same thing.
*ilson46201, sorry if this has already been hashed over. I didn’t see it talked about today.
shoogarp @10:
So… Merill shot himself in the head and then threw himself overboard, or was there some kind of Rube Goldberg setup so he’d fall into the water with the anchor?
Undeniable Liberal @30:
This is a big part of what pisses me off about fundies. They’re obviously avid readers of the OT angry vengeful God stuff, but they just seem to doze off when they get to the NT (the book that their religion takes its very name from), at least up until Revelations. At most, some of them might have the takeaway that the Jews killed Jesus, but I think that’s about it.
The only explanation I can think of is that their ideology informs their ading of the Bible, and not vice versa.
Let me be crystal clear, however: I am talking about fundies who traffic in hate, not good, Christ-loving Christians, who are admirable people.
Check out the date on this story. I thougt that was quite the coincidence–and I do MOSTLY think it a coincidence, but judge for yourself–when the next day I saw a story about the shop heading the hunt being closed down. Make of it what you will.
(apologies if this is redudndant to something someone else posted…)
http://www.thedenverchannel.co…..etail.html
Thanks you Christy. GREAT post.
“As someone with a dear friend on his way to Iraq as I type…”
Tomorrow my guy leaves for Iraq.
I will avail myself of the kindness that has been offered here at FDL to, “…help out in the late nights…”
I just posted on the last thread and it posted under “new thread” post. I knew it. So…here it is again:
151 HopeSpringsATurtle says:
July 5th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Slightly OT and this will probably get EPU’ed but…
This Lameman/Lamont race is IMPORTANT but its just one race (called Boxer, opined about,”DNCC should commit to the winner of primary…”). We still need to keep our eyes on the bigger ball, the need to take back the house, this is still win-able. Christy in her talk on WNYC, kept bringing up the other issues that we all are concerned about. I think we need to set an ‘agenda’ in order of importance and what’s do-able for the Fall elections. We need a ‘laundry list’ of talking points/things that are wrong/things that we can convince the American people that Democrats can DO BETTER. Please don’t get me wrong, I think Conn. is super important but its 1 of 50. We CAN do better. Thank you Christy for nailing so many things that I have said in this thread. And thanks Jane for ALL that you do.
Thanks,
-HopeSpringsATurtle
*ilson,
At the custody hearing for my oldest son, my ex’s attorney kept hammering on my financial affidavit, because I had an offer on a house. The finances worked out differently depending on whether the purchase was finalized or not. My attorney said we should submit two affidavits, one for each case. On direct, I explained that I had made an offer that I expected to be accepted, but that no contract had been signed yet.
On cross, her attorney started after me on the “false statements” I’d made in the financial affidavit. Hizzoner got tired of it, and told him to move on. He continued with the line of questioning, Hizzoner got more tired, and said, “Mr. X, I understand the affidavit perfectly well. Please move on with your questioning.” Mr. X continued to hammer on the affidavit, and Hizzoner interjected again, “Move on, Mr. X.”
Mr. X asks another question about the affidavit, and before he could complete it, Hizzoner said, “Mr. X, there is a dead horse in my courtroom. Will you please stop beating it? MOVE ON, or close your questioning.”
I had to suppress a laugh, and believe me, nothing seems funny when you’re in the dock, even in a custody case.
BC
I think ole’ Kennyboy took himself out.
Maybe now Dick Cheney will “Go Ken Lay” himself!!
liberalrob, I’d invite you to go back to the FDL threads about the Sunday Morning “Roundup.” A lot of people stepped up for
Joe KleinJokeline and said he was unusually accurate on Sunday. A lot of the rest of us pointed out that this was a huge departure and that his article in TIME on 2 July 2006 looked just like Joenertia’s position on the Iraq occupation.We need all the help we can get and would welcome Jokeline’s return to the principles of good journalism, working for the reader’s right to know. All we want are articles that are accurate, complete, and coherent.
Oops, that should be “informs their *reading*” towards the end of my post #77. Sometimes my smartphone is not so smart…
wish we had many more like this Marine:
>>>>>>>>>>
Bee received six medals of commendation, but one of them he will give back to President George W. Bush, calling the medal political, NewsChannel5 reported.
The medal is the War on Terrorism service medal, and Bee calls it “eye candy” from Bush.
“So, he took something noble and honorable and made it kind of dirty. And I always thought that medal was the one he pinned on us and said, ‘This is my war. This is my stamp in history,’” said Bee.
Bee said he is not anti-war, but rather pro-peace. He plans to travel to Washington, D.C., with a small group of Marines who feel the same way he does. They will all try to return their War on Terrorism medal to Bush personally or to members of Congress.
http://www.newsnet5.com/akronc…..etail.html
HOPIE! I knew it must be close to time. You and that boy hug each other a big’un for alla us since we can’t be there to do ourseffs, you heah?
cnn says – fill tanks now, $3/gal. average coming very soon
re picture – Is that a shot of Rush Limblough when he was caught w/ the Viagra?
Who is this person Somersby? And for that matter why should I give a flying F*** what Joe Klein thinks about anything? I mean who the hell is he?
He’s just some kind of DC/NYC “Celebujournalist” who doesn’t matter to me in any way whatsoever. He only gets on the poofy-haired talking head shows because he’s a golfing buddy or frat bro. of some media network muckety-muck.
This person who wrote this pithy article you’re talking about is certainly entitled to his opinion – everyone’s got one – among other anatomical orifices
Ok, while we’re wondering what really happened to Kennyboy Lay, here’s my question.
Sentencing was originally scheduled for 9/11/06. Then on June 1, a sealed document was filed in the case:
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
Case 4:04-cr-00025 Document 1038 Filed 06/01/2006 Page 1 of 1
USA v. CRIMINAL ACTION NO. H-04-25
Kenneth Lay
Sealed Document
and two weeks later, sentencing was rescheduled for 10/23.
Before I go out on a limb readinging between the lines, what does this say to you Christy, as a lawyer? Is it possible Lay was cutting a deal and spilling his guts to prosecutors?
That’s as brief as I’ve ever seen twolf1 be.
well, i guess i figured out how to post nothing
TheOtherWA, he’d already been convicted of all counts in two different trials — no deal left to cut.
the problem is they HAVE read the bible. “Take those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, and slay them before me.” — Jesus (Luke, 19:27) At least they didn’t kill the kid. The bible is filled with both simplistic platitudes and horrors like the above. It really can not be defended as a moral guide. These people can probably quote chapter and verse at you to defend their callous, bigoted positions.
As Elizabeth Cady Stanton said so eloquently, “The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women’s emancipation.”
oh my– i just heard that all the convictions will be set aside/expunged for the expired Lay because he has no chance for appeal. this acc to a criminal defense attorney on msnbc. his money will be turned over to the govt for victim restitution.
HopeSAT– I will keep y’all in my thoughts…
Liberalrob – Joe Klein is the quintessential finger-in-the-wind, get-on-the-bandwagon talking head. I don’t recall Klein being outraged over the Plame incident when it happened, and that he has now expressed the opinion that it was wrong is about three years too late, in my opinion. One would think that a Democrat with the power of a weekly magazine column and a fairly regular TV gig would not have been ignoring this for so long, and in his case later is not better then never – it’s just too late to give him any cred at all.
Joe Lieberman thinks he’s a Democrat, too – but what he’s said and done for the last so many years pretty much puts the lie to that, too.
It’s kind of like a husband who cheats on his wife: it’s hard to give him points for the “good” things he does when he can’t honor the committment he made to his wife.
Lotus, true he was convicted, but he may have been trying to get some wiggle room on his sentence.
ooh now they are speculating about suicide…
well, i guess i figured out how to post nothing
I figured that out *ages* ago, but I’ve never been quite so… economical about it.
twolf1 – already paying $3.05/gal in MD.
I read in the NYT yesterday that the NY court of appeals is expected to issue its decision today on same-sex marriage. Any updates?
angie, station please.
Last time an incumbent senator lost a primary was Bob Smith (R-NH) in 2002. Lost to Sununu, who won in the general.
it was msnbc, weeder– tis over now.
In case you missed it or never even got reported by the “Celebujournalists” …
The DoD Perception Management Program is alive and well
“The Air Force Office of Scientific Research recently began funding a new research area that includes a study of blogs”
“Let me be crystal clear, however: I am talking about fundies who traffic in hate, not good, Christ-loving Christians, who are admirable people.”
I agree Eli. Simply reading the NT or the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) drives you towards some kind of pluralism. Even in the NT, there is very little, the human authors, actually agreed upon. Jesus revealed to them something about the nature of God that was pretty unique. Beyond that, Jesus was crucified (by the Romans), was a very popular preacher, had followers such as Peter, James, John…, Mary Magdalen and healed the sick. Beyond that there is a lot of disagreement and we are talking about “canonical” documents. We have non-canonical writings that are similar to the canonicals, but early Xtians decided not to include them in it.
So… wasn’t there something about a DSCC announcement after 3:00 that would clarify their position on Joe (Joesition?)? Was that 3:00 Pacific Time, maybe?
Or is this the kind of major, earth-shattering announcement that they would save for late Friday afternoon? You know, for maximum impact…
I think we are all awaiting the DSCC and the NY Supreme Court to issue earth-shaking decisions …
thanks angie,
Oh well, I imagine this story will come around again…
I wonder what Bush, et. al. will do if their Iraqi puppet government gets uppity and starts acting like a, you know, real government.
The quote from Yoo, “What the court is doing is attempting to suppress creative thinking,” has got to be the wanker quote of the day. I’m not exactly a constitutional originalist, but I’d go so far as to say the very purpose of the supreme court is to smack idiots like Yoo up side the head when they engage in “creative thinking” about the constitution.
Well TOWA and angie, all the civil plaintiffs will now go after Lay’s estate, and I don’t think that MSNBC defense-atty is necessarily right on the criminal cases, either. To believe that, for starters I (and more importantly, the judge) would need proof that his cases on appeal were air-tight — which they wouldn’t have been by a long shot.
On a happier note, here’s something fun to watch . . .
The otherWA at 88
It could mean that, but unlikely with such a short adjournment. If he was cooperating it would have been a longer adjournment or and adjournment sine die (without date).
A short adjournment like that could mean he found out he had a heart condititon and wanted time to have tests or procedures done (my guess) or that his lawyer suggested cooperation and the gov’t agreed to a short adjournment to make time to negotiate the cooperation agreement.
In the latter circumstance, the short adjourn date keeps pressure on the defendant during the negoiations
Lotus at 91
Yes there are still deals. Deals on sentencing and cooperation would bring the all important 5k1 letter
Anne #98:
I just returned from a Costco run – $3.05 is the members-only price for regular. At the major, non-Arco stations in my ‘hood, it’s more like $3.23. Was ~ $3.50 three months ago.
I’m not exactly a constitutional originalist, but I’d go so far as to say the very purpose of the supreme court is to smack idiots like Yoo up side the head when they engage in “creative thinking” about the constitution.
If you’re spending a large chunk of your time combing through the Constitution looking for loopholes, you probably shouldn’t be in government…
That sentencing date was for both Lay and Skilling, so the delay may have had to do with Skilling alone.
apropos Yoo’s whine: I am reminded of an old New Yorker cartoon showing two convicts chatting — One was saying: “I’m in here for accounting — I was just a little more creative than the judge allowed.”
Ah, thanks for straightening me out on that, lhp. Um, wot’s a 5k1 letter?
If the true reselts of Mexico’s election stands, George Bush will go down as the man who did more for progressive politics south of the border than any man in history.
I just printed that out. I think I may needlepoint that on a pillow.
That is the most succinct explaination of the proper attitude for government service I have ever heard.
THANK YOU. So much
John Casper 82, I read the entire comments thread Somerby linked to and nowhere did I see a correction or retraction or repudiation of what Roger Ailes said by an FDL front-pager (to the extent that I know who those are). Jane Hamsher posted twice in essence that Klein deserved whatever he got because of his past offenses, though she did say if he had actually been on the right side this time it was a good thing. And that was it. The rest of the comments were basically regular people as far as I could tell.
I don’t love Klein either, I just think Somerby is right this time. And it’s not blog-war-baiting, it’s criticism where it’s due. FDL is not just any old blog out there and I don’t think it’s meant to be the lefty mirror image of Redstate or Powerline where we just make stuff up if it pleases us. Is it? So where is the official criticism of Ailes? Or for that matter, where is his defense of himself? Not to me, and not to Somerby, but to all of us?
He’s been accused of misleading us and FDL of harboring him, on a fairly well-known blog; I would think some kind of response would be in order. I don’t think “sit down and shut up” is good enough, though it might be all I get.
Thanks, looseheadprop. That’s what I was thinking. It’s doubtful we’ll ever know for sure.
Since they were also going over financial info and debating what would have to be forfeited, could the sealed document have been a list of property and accounts? Wouldn’t that become public eventually anyway?
lotus,
A 5k1 letter is a letter from the goverment that says that you have rendered “substantial assistance” to the government through your cooperation with the government.
When I did them, there were two kinds you could get from me. One that just tracked the stautoty language (if you “cooperated” in only the most technical sense of the word and I couldn’t prove you were holding out on me).
In the case of someone who really did see the light, wanted to atone and really not only told me what they knew, but actually woked with us to figure out things, got a small non fiction book detailing all the help and why it was important.
That second kind of letter can be as close to a get out of jail card as you can find. Judges really tend to cut sentences when they see a 5k1 that details lots and lots of help from the defendant.
dude! that horse has bought the farm! EXPIRED! kaput! it is a deceased horse! it has gone to meet its maker … give it a fucking rest! put down that damn cudgel.
Thanks for the explanation at 122, lhp.
Aw, shucks. Thanks, looseheadprop. It really is the core of the problem with the Republicans: They view the law as an obstacle to their power and wealth (possibly fear and hate, although I think those are more like useful tools for most of them) to be circumvented or destroyed by any means necessary (if Malcolm X can forgive me).
The problem with the pasting of word documents into the comments should be fixed now. I finally figured a calculation up to replace everything perfectly (now my brain hurts lol). Hopefully there won’t be any more oddball replacing of quotes.
otherWA at 120
Anything is possible. I am sticking with my two theories. I see no reason to seal a list of assets in the first place.
Racism, anti-Semitism, prejudice, bigotry, ethnocentrism, misogyny, religious hatred, etc. These are not concepts we are born with. Where do kids start getting this stuff? Around the dinner table from mom and dad mostly. And I say to Christians who dislike Jews solely because they are Jewish; Jesus was a Jew. For Christ’s sake!
Another round of Bravos for Jamie!
last nites Law and Order was about a girl who was the daughter of two lesbians and was attending a christian school. she had stabbed her classmate with the scissors he had cut off her ponytail with so she would look more like a lesbian, which he said were ugly. ugly indeed, i felt so sorry for both kids who had been twisted by such hate and intolerance.
well, it’s just a TV show, but i wondered what real life circumstance it was derived from, i guess i hope it was this one, but the timing seems off, so that means this is going on how often? oh yeah, jesus would be pissed.
*ilson46201, give me a link to where it was killed please? I know you’re a regular here, so it must have been somewhere I missed.
Somerby’s post was today. It’s not the first time he’s criticised FDL, either.
I’ve made the point I wanted to make and I won’t bug you about it any more. It’s up to FDL whether to respond. Now back to your regularly-scheduled discussions.
Wow, it is a big news day today. Over at Talkleft: “Rumsfeld Subpoened Over Abu-Ghraib Whistelblower.” Chris Shays is the committe chair talking about oversight.
Is this only about November?
The kiss float on CNN now
TeddySanFran’s name on CNN with a screenshot of give em’ hell, harry!!!!!!!!!!
whoo-hoo.
Eli – #77
Merrill, a close friend of Vice President Dick Cheney and financial backer of a number of neo-conservative organizations, was the head of the U.S. Export-Import Bank, the bank made a number of dubious loans to the U.S.-run Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) in Iraq and a successor agency known as the Trade Bank of Iraq.
[snip]
Much of the money was used to facilitate U.S. “exports” to Iraq, which was actually used to pay major U.S. contractors operating in the occupied country. A 2005 audit report by the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction concluded that “the CPA did not establish or implement sufficient managerial, financial and contractual controls to ensure that funds were used in a transparent manner.” The report stated that $8.8 billion allocated to the CPA was unaccounted for.
I know Wayne Madsen is fantastical in some of his speculation, but why aren’t any of the mainstream media outlets covering this?
This dead guy might just know where a lot of the bodies are buried.
(sorry Punasie)
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
CNN just showed The Kiss Float internet video from yesterdays parade but no Jane & poodle posse
And don’t forget about this one…
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/U…..n.suicide/
must be something in the drinking water…
lhp, what about this suggestion of Lay’s convictions going away because he died without having time to appeal? Have you ever heard of that?
Cleter!!!
So by my count, in the last two election cycles, just north of 98% of incumbent Senators have won their primaries. If you count the non-close ones this year, it’s 99%.
Clearly Joe thinks the opposition he faces is substantially more severe than that faced by the average incumbent Senator.
loosehead @126, sealing financial data didn’t make a lot of sense to me, but as a non-lawyer I had to ask.
The KISS video just made it to CNN…LOL
CNN.com has not updated “Lieberman to run regardless of primary results” since Monday.
oh yeah, jesus would be pissed.
How many hours after the Second Coming before the wingnuts started calling him a terrorist-coddling pussy and making snide remarks about his resemblance to Osama?
(”Yeah, I know he’s the foundation of our religion and all, but that doesn’t make him any less a traitor. I say we crucify him again, he enjoyed it so much the first time.”)
Liberalrob: for the umpteenth time: Christy responded this afternoon as have a number of other commenters. What part of “ho-hum” don’t you understand? If you dont like the response, go back over to Somerby and whine over there … nobody here seems as worked up about this issue as you and only you seem to be …
OT lhp – thanks to you from me. I read your comment on the Sonoma diet the other day. I had been reading the book and decided to try it after reading your comment. I’m really enjoying it – eating very well and even cooking. I too feel much better after only 4 days. Many, many thanks for providing the kick. You never know when you might have an impact on someone. Thank you many times.
Torie Clark on CNN just endorsed Boltin’ Joe as a “statesman” and James Carville kind of slapped him upside the head (but quickly started going wuzza wuzza wuzza when John King followed that up.) Lots of play for Hillary’s statement. BTW, is there any way we can get John King promoted over at CNN? Dang, he is good!
Yea, Jamie!!!
fwiw, there are four thingys that caused 99% of the problems: two hyphens forming a smart dash; quotation marks becoming smart quotes; apostrophe becoming a smart apostrophe; and three periods becoming three tiny dots.
Thanks Again — Yea, Jamie!!!
liberalrob, you wrote: “I read the entire comments thread Somerby linked to and nowhere did I see a correction or retraction or repudiation of what Roger Ailes said by an FDL front-pager.”
I never said there was, I wrote: “A lot of people stepped up for Joe Klein Jokeline and said he was unusually accurate on Sunday. A lot of the rest of us pointed out that this was a huge departure and that his article in TIME on 2 July 2006 looked just like Joenertia’s position on the Iraq occupation.
We need all the help we can get and would welcome Jokeline’s return to the principles of good journalism, working for the reader’s right to know. All we want are articles that are accurate, complete, and coherent.”
From the comments under Ailes’ post:“Pete says:
July 2nd, 2006 at 8:00 pm
I thought Klein on “This Week” made some very valid points. Caling him a “Republican reporter” is way off mark as he did not spew any of the Rovian talking points.
liberalrob, you are defending Joe right now, just as Pete and others did last Sunday. Christy, Jane, and the other posters read these comments. Christy already responded to you above.
If Jokeline wants my support as a journalist, ask him to explain what in the hell our “military” objectives are in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why have we violated the Powell Doctrine to “occupy” two ME countries? How much longer are the Chinese going to buy our T-Bills to finance the deficit that the occupations are causing? Why is Joe supporting a strategy that only makes Russia and Iran more dominant in the region? Why is Joe supporting a strategy that only makes us less popular in the region and swells the ranks of people like Osama? Why isn’t Joe writing more about the corruption in the Republican party? Why isn’t Joe writing more about the “pre-Magna Carta” unitary executive? Why isn’t Joe calling out all those “strict constructionists,” such as Judge Bork? Why isn’t Joe calling out all those supposedly fiscally conservative Republicans who are spending it like it’s going out of style? I was raised a Barry Goldwater Repbulican. Unfortunately, I was not taught everything about Barry in my youth. I feel very welcome at FDL. One of the things I really like about FDL is that it allows for civil disagreement, it allows and encourages responsible expression of differing opinions.
World Cup Update –
Game’s over – One Team won. One Lost.
(I’m no spoiler) ;)
I think Joe’s run as an independent will hand the seat to the repugs. He will come in a distant third but pull enough democrat vote to cost Lamont the election. And the Repugs will feel energized and feel they have a shot and the NRC money will come pouring in! They can bail on Santorum as unwinable and put the money in CT. this becomes their best shot at a pick up! It may cost us the majority in the senate.
Thanks Joe.
Quote of the day, from Tony Snow:
…many of the President’s acquaintances have passed on during his time in office,” he said.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/05/snow-lay/
Hmmmm….veeery interesting…
WaPo’s Cilizza (and his one lone commenter) on Lieberman-Lamont.
HOORAY JAMIE!!!
Just FYI, not to make your job tougher, just information. I think the “oddballs” still show up in preview. You probably already knew this.
HOORAY JAMIE!!!
Lay was already 64 years old – so whatever the judge was going to hand down to him in the fall would have amounted to the equivalent of a death sentence. He probably has millions stashed somewhere … why wouldn’t he try to fake his own death? What would he have to lose? The timing on this is just too convenient …
TOW at 137—I believe convictions for deceased are generally dismissed if there has been no appeal filed and completed. The sealed doc followed by the delay in sentencing may have been a request for a continuance of the sentencing that gave some info the probation officer got in preparing the presentence report—that info would not be open to the public. Unusual, but possible. But I would expect a much longer delay if he was cooperating. If he had already cooperated there would be no need for a delay.
John Casper 1:52 p.m.
Right. And why the hell was Joe Klein, in the quote that was published here on Sunday, using Republican talking points like “cut and run”?
I’ve been reading up alot about the horrific rape case, and I have lots of questions. Why is someone who committed a crime while a soldier being tried in civilian court? Why did the FBI claim the woman was 25 and the local doctor determine she was 14? WHEN was the soldier in question discharged, and what exactly had happened that lead them to diagnose a personality disorder in Iraq when it had gone unseen in the states?
The best link I’ve found is here with the most information
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/…925- 1926872.php
Which also links to the charges and arrest warrant for Green. It makes it clear that this was based on a CID debriefing which occurred on June 20. So nobody has debriefed these soldiers since March?
The stunning part about the marine corps paper is that it says the first soldier “raped” the woman, and the second soldier “had sex with her”, after killing her parents and family.
A final thought:There were four soldiers involved in the assault. Only two are charged with raping the victim. Why did the other two come along? What was in it for them?
*ilson, John Casper — look away. Don’t feed it.
Is it just me, or am I seeing more and different mutations of “concern trolls” within the last week?
They tried the plain old “concerned” tack. They tried the “angry victim” tack. And now the “but you’re wrong” tack.
What’s next? “Your breath smells”?
Quote of the day, from Tony Snow:
…many of the President’s acquaintances have passed on during his time in office,” he said.
I’m always amazed every time one of the total bastards of the world doesn’t live to at least 90.
And every time a national treasure like Paul Wellstone or Mr. Rogers does.
Oh, and as for the whole death-faking thing, let’s just say that Mr. Occam and I are skeptical.
PS: Regarding the death of lay
Don’t you think his body needs to be brought from state to state so that all people can be sure he’s really dead? And maybe keep a knuckle or something?
Or have I been too twisted by the lives of the saints?
AP: Biden, Boxer and Salazar plan to campaign for Lieberman before the primary.
THEIR breath sure smells!
Fearchild, polls say otherwise. Joenertia is the defacto GOP candidate and he knows it, that’s why he went for “Plan B.” IIRC, according to the latest polls, Republican Alan Schlesinger finishes behind Ned in a three-way race with around 8% of the vote.
Your fears though about Dem Congressional races in CT may be more founded.
AP: Biden, Boxer and Salazar plan to campaign for Lieberman before the primary.
THEIR breath sure smells!
What *is* it with BB and Joe??? If she has some kind of schoolgirl crush on him, I’m gonna hurk.
Kenny boy’s corpse is really a CLONE!
*ilson, that was too veiled for me. Who’s DBL, for instance?
on the oppression of the family by a religion;
another argument for getting rid of religions
they are mean, cruel, destructive organs of the insane people in command that personally have physical relations with gods and animals, but can only prove the latter.
what the hell has any one of them ever done for mankind?
I thought so, no one has an answer that doesn’t involve faith that they will do something, someday, somewhere, sometime
when will we grow up?
shrink in SF says
July 5th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
PS: Regarding the death of lay
Don’t you think his body needs to be brought from state to state so that all people can be sure he’s really dead? And maybe keep a knuckle or something?
Or have I been too twisted by the lives of the saints?
———————————————————-
I’m pretty sure the proper protocol is to drive a wooden stake through his heart. Good riddance.
Eli 153
Is “Hurk” When you follow people in secret and throw up behind them?
Okay Frank, as long as one of us can do it. You aren’t at all worried he’s with Bob Casey in Jamaica?
Joe Klein has been more honest in one recent appearance on TV and on one column. Perhaps the nonreactionary blogs have shamed him into moving towards being an honest non-partisan commentater. I hope he keeps it up. That that is all. Klein has very pointedly identified himself in print and in appearances as a certain kind of very coservative Democrat who he thinks has been abondoned by his party. Until he does some rethinking and can see things differently, and explains his new thinking, I cannot consider him to be a Democratic, or liberal, or even centrist commentator. Eactly what he is, or thinks he, I have no clue, since there is little real ideological or substantive content in what he says. I think the Howler’s comments re FDL and Joe Klein were flip.
What’s the problem? I like to read blogs where people say what they think. What is wrong with people saying what they think?
Biden, Boxer and Salazar?
They certainly have the right to come to CT to campaign for Joementum before the primary.
But hopefully every way they turn they will get hammered with the same question – will you still support Joe as an independent after he loses the primary? If they won’t answer one way or the other, keep pounding away with variations on the same question.
Also, they need to be asked why they support a Democrat who is so uncommitted to his own party that he is willing to run as an independent AGAINST his party if necessary to selfishly hold onto his senate seat?
We could also pose the following hypothetical to them:
Would it be reasonable for the next Democratic challenger to Boxer, Salazar or Biden to run as a Democrat in the primary against them, lose, and then continue to run as an independent? Isn’t this fundamentally unfair, unprincipled and at odds with the health of the Democratic party?
Oldtree- Just in my town the Franciscan brothers
Feed homeless families every day. Just one example.
liberalrob at 119 — not that it is any of your business, but I’ve been dealing with quite the arthritis flare of late, which has necessitated a larger amount of sleep than usual. Since this is a 24-hour-a-day blog, seven days a week, I have to grab sleep where I can. So sorry not to get back to you with the response that you wanted from me immediately, but I had to run to my doctor’s office and give up another 6 vials of blood for testing to again try and narrow down what is causing the problems.
And, in answer to your question, I have not as yet had time to read Roger’s article from Sunday, what with writing my own articles, raising my three year old and having to nap (yesterday’s was over five hours), so I’m afraid I’m not much help. But I will take a look at it when I get a chance tomorrow and will leave you a note on the comments if I feel such a note is merited. This may not meet with your need for some sort of immediate response, but it is the best I can do with a three-year-old home from preschool, dinner to get started and a right hand which is less than functional today.
Re: Ken Lay.
My first thoughts for cause of death, in this order, would be:
1. Suicide.
2. Homicide.
3. Natural causes.
What raises my eyebrows the most was the assertion that the body was “found”. I will immediately concede that it is entirely possible for someone to simply drop dead of a massive heart attack. It is, however, somewhat unusual. Most people who do so have a history of heart disease, which I don’t think Lay had, simply because I think we would have heard him whining about it by now. (”I was so worried about my heart that I wasn’t paying attention to the company.”) So what, exactly, happened? Should be interesting to see what the autopsy shows.
new thread
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..he-pocket/
shrink in SF says
July 5th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
Okay Frank, as long as one of us can do it. You aren’t at all worried he’s with Bob Casey in Jamaica?
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Nope. If you were going to fake your own death, you’d do something that wouldn’t leave your body there for all to examine.
Christy
Sorry to hear you are having health problems. I hope they find out the problem and you get to feeling better soon.
The last thing you need to worry about is a reader who does not like the way FDL operates.
angie, REALLY????
I’m at a client and without teevee, but kewl!
Hey liberalrob (the horse that will not die) I don’t think anyone should have to respond to criticism that takes this quote from Roger Ailes:
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“The This Week roundtable featured a former Republican Senator and ABC employee (Fred Thompson), balanced out by two Republican reporters (Cokie Roberts and Joe Klein).
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and counters it with THIS:
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“But Klein and Roberts aren’t “Republicans;” that’s a childish way to discuss the enduring problems with their work as pundits (problems we have discussed for years).”
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The Daily Howler commentator’s initial premise is wrong, and all that flows from it is also wrong. Roger didn’t write that they were “Republicans,” he wrote that they were “Republican supporters.”
Are we done here?
(woo-hoo, got my name on CNN)-happy dance!
point conceded, but can’t we get the photographer who shot all those pictures of Zarqari to help us out with a visual?
Frank Probst — perhaps we should be combing over the Aspen newspaper for better details?
Or checking the police records for, umm, unusual calls?
Maybe there were blue pills involved?
i wonder what nancy grace would have to say about the rape and murder of a 14 year-old child? of course, caBAL news network, “the voice of truth” (so long it’s a bushreich talking point) isn’t gonna touch this with a 10 foot pole.
if the shreaking harridan had any real substance or honest interest in the pursuit of justice, she’d be screaming bloody murder and working her days off to get the disgusting mother fuckers who are responsible for this dispicable horrendous murder. but i’d bet 500 to 1 it’s never gonna happen.
no good for the time/warner bottom line. parsons says no…. we know the drill. drag out another white-trash blonde on the run with a trailerpark parolee sex offender. that’s what america really cares about. the “i’ve been everywhere, man” people will sponsor the whole fucking hour.
Well, if today hasn’t been hinky enough for ya yet, now we got 3 Coke employees arrested for trying to slip recipes and samples to Pepsi. Only problem was, the “Pepsi agent” offering ‘em $1.5M was really FBI.
BarbaraB at 46:
Thanks. I love this paragraph:
It makes me wonder how a war-crimes court might view John Yoo’s responsibility for the unfortunate events at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Hmmmmmm!
You’re welcome, anon. Marty Lederer is first rate, IMO, so I’m glad you liked him too.
CNN sez the coroner’s office will hold a press conference -concerning Ken Lay- soon (right now, it’s 4:35 CST)
Christy, sorry to hear about your health problems. All I was looking for was an indication that someone at FDL knew there was an accusation out there and acknowledged that a response was a good idea.
The rest of you, who called me a “concern troll” and “a reader who doesn’t like the way FDL is run” and a “dead horse beater”….”pthtlblblbttptt” is the appropriate response I believe. I like FDL or I wouldn’t even be here reading this stuff, and my “concern” is genuine or I wouldn’t have posted it. If we have to get into a liberal-cred-waving contest I’m game, but I don’t see the point.
And TeddySF, if you read your own quotes again, Roger said “Republican reporters” not “Republican supporters”.
Here’s Somerby’s main point, which I agree with (emphasis mine):
“We liberals can’t afford to make ourselves stupid. There are foolish people all over the pseudo-con web, but their efforts fit inside a larger framework—a web of effective, adult-run think- and spin-tanks which have been in operation for the past forty years. There is no similar superstructure overseeing and shaping liberal/progressive argument. If liberals and progressives are going to be effective, it will have to come from the bottom up. It’s hard to see how that will result from such willful, feel-good distortions.“
Hmm, it seems apostrophes get converted into unicode. My apologies.
Apparently the apostrophe thing is just in Preview. Whew.
lotus,
Sorry I was in a meeting with a client. Re your question about whethter Lay’s conviction gets expunged b/c he died before appeal.
I have never heard of that. I have heard of appeals being dismissed b/c one of the litigants died and the type of case was not one that could be continued by the estate.
In order to have a case, any case inlcuding an apeal, you must have an “actual case in controversy”. Courts will not hear hypothetical or moot cases.
Is “Hurk” When you follow people in secret and throw up behind them?
Heh. It was a typo, but I decided I kinda liked it…
Please understand why I say this – It was a blessing that 14 year old Iraqi rape victim was killed. In her culture, if she had been left alive, there would have been an even more painful “honor Killing” at the hands of her family since their “honor” would have been soiled.
And a question – If it was against the law for Al Gore to make a few fund raising phone calls using WH phones – wouldn’t the fact that Rove runs political campaigns from the WH, and he and a full staff, are paid for with OUR tax dollars instead of RNC money be a much more egregious offense of campaign laws??? This has been driving me crazy for awhile. Can anyone explain WHY Rove is on WH payroll running Political Campaigns???
Grandma, Rove Bush and the whole gang of criminals do whatever floats their boat at the WH. Nothings shocking anymore, this isn’t the USA you grew up in and more than likely will never be again. Sorry for what appears to be impending doom but the writing on the wall is obvious.
Rumsfeld still has a job because, as Bush said, it would be like firing himself. It’s another mistake Bush can’t own up to.
…And then there is THIS aspect:
Wednesday, July 5, 2006 | BREAKING: Ken Lay is Not Dead
Ken Lay is not dead. He is already in a foreign country. This is according to a reading of the horary chart associated with his death (4:51 pm CED, Brussels, July 5, 2006). In one of the most carefully planned escapes in shadow government history, Lay disappeared, probably within the past 24 hours.
The chart has Scorpio rising, apropos of the discussion. The Moon and Jupiter Rx have just risen and are in the 12th house, about to make a conjunction. This is nothing, if not mysterious — no need to push it too hard.
The ruler of the ascendant is Mars, which is in Leo and the 9th house. The ascendant ruler represents the first party to the question — Mr. Lay. He does not appear to be anywhere nearby, as the 9th house represents travel of long distances.
Magnificently, Mars is precisely opposite Neptune — separating to an exactitude of three arc minutes. Neptune adds the factor of a huge fog, deception or unknowable possibility (echoed vividly by those 12th house Scorpio planets). This suggests a kind of crime of the century: that Neptune in Aquarius has proven many times that there is no story too outrageous for people to swallow.
Regarding Mars in the 9th, we could propose that the ‘long distance’ of this house was to Kenny Boy’s little place in hog heaven, were it not for another fact: the ruler of the 7th cusp, which is Taurus and thus Venus — representing a partner or, in general, ’someone else’, is found in the 8th house, the house of death.
The syntax of this is not difficult to grasp: someone else is dead. First take is this is the body of the guy who is laying in for Kenny.
My second take on this Venus 8th was that his wife would soon be joining him, as Venus is about to square Uranus in Pisces.
Obviously, there was an escape house on an island somewhere; such is commonplace enough among the ultra-posh. And with all the resources of the Land of the Free to protect them, freedom is available.
News prediction: “they,” that is, the MSM, will float a story that proves the validity of the corpse, a kind of, “It really is Ken” story, with DNA or fingerprints — affirming the question.
That’s the news. Now back to you.
Sent via Planet Waves
http://planetwaves.net
If it was me, and I was about to spend eternity in a jail cell with Bubba, I think I’d take my bazillions and “die” too!
About that frog, it looks as if it just got saved in the nick of time from a slow boil.
Never again!
Christy at 172. We love you. Hope you feel better. I deal with the arthritis part of it most of the time. I feel for you. It’s no fun…..and besides, it HURTS!
puppethead @ 8:
That has been driving me nuts, too. Raping and killing a “woman” is horrible, but somehow, no matter how you parse it, it sounds less horrible than “girl” or “child.” So, yes, calling her a woman has outraged me. She was a scared and ultimately terrified and tortured CHILD.
Our military is so strapped for soldiers that we must retain the mentally-ill out to secure the Iraqi liberation? And so many good, good soldiers, so many noble people in a U.S. uniform misrepresented by monstrosities. All it takes is a few freaks to blow things apart for all of them. (PFC Tucker and PFC Menchaca and their loved ones suffered directly for this.)
I served for 8 years, and was very, very impressed with the quality of the human beings who serve in uniform. Please do not underestimate the idealism and nobility of our troops because of the horror shows we do hear about.
ppp @41:
“Pomme Fitz” indeed! LMAO! I’d love to see a darkblack rendering of an Apple Fitz. Or a nice supersized cardboard pocket french fried Fitzes.
I understand the concern of liberalrob. But I disagree. I am glad that Joe Klein has started being more genuinely balanced, and hope he keeps it up. If he does keep it up, and cuts the out of control BushCo cheerleading, and continues putting more sensible reasoning that is more related to facts in his columns and appearances, I might even admit he would be OK. But Klein has explicitly and catagorically stated repeatedly that he feels that pretty much the whole liberal, progressive wing, and whole Democratic party is to the left of him. And that he isn’t any of those. I have no problem with that, he thinks what he thinks and that his is right. He can even be a good pundit that way. But how can anyone consider him a liberal or progressive or be able to give a reasonable Democratic view? I don’s see how they can, until he changes his mind, and tells people that he has, and why. So, I am mystified why anyone would complain when some one says that a panel with Joe Klein as the most liberal participant is a panel that lacks a liberal, or a progressive, or a Democrat in the usual sense of that term. The fact that Klein may be doing his commenting job better doesn’t change that at all.
Way EPU’d, but John Yoo is teaching at Boalt (UC Berkeley Law School)???? How far the mighty have fallen.
And Ken Lay had a heart attack? Wouldn’t that imply that he had a heart?
wesgpc @ 199, the point is that we (liberals/progressives) shouldn’t descend to the level of Redstate or Free Republic, making stuff up about people we disagree with; and we especially shouldn’t do it when the people we are vilifying happen to take our side. Vindictiveness and grudge-holding are the hallmarks of the other side, and we should work to keep it that way. Criticise and punish bad behavior, encourage and reward good behavior. It seems like common sense.