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	<title>Comments on: We Hold These Truths&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/</link>
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		<title>By: ceo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173208</link>
		<dc:creator>ceo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 04:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;katymine #77&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Joe’s self destruction seems important because of the potential chain reactions in the Senate, in the party, in the media.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>katymine #77</p>
<p>I guess.</p>
<p>Joe’s self destruction seems important because of the potential chain reactions in the Senate, in the party, in the media.</p>
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		<title>By: lambert strether</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173180</link>
		<dc:creator>lambert strether</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 03:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173180</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;MJS’s newest song/rap/chant:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.correntewire.com/mjs_aberrations_0&quot;&gt;Aberrations!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Abu Ghraib, that’s just an aberration, baby! You know it!”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MJS’s newest song/rap/chant:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.correntewire.com/mjs_aberrations_0">Aberrations!</a></p>
<p>“Abu Ghraib, that’s just an aberration, baby! You know it!”</p>
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		<title>By: Arkinsaw Heathern</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173065</link>
		<dc:creator>Arkinsaw Heathern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 01:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173065</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The most important part…the part that is totally lacking in all of today’s “leaders:”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, &lt;b&gt;we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Today’s pledge: &lt;b&gt;“we unilaterally pledge to each other someone else’s lives, the worker’s taxes, and no honor, sacred or otherwise.”&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most important part…the part that is totally lacking in all of today’s “leaders:”</p>
<p>“And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, <b>we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”</b></p>
<p>Today’s pledge: <b>“we unilaterally pledge to each other someone else’s lives, the worker’s taxes, and no honor, sacred or otherwise.”</b></p>
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		<title>By: Amike</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173010</link>
		<dc:creator>Amike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 00:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173010</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Something somewhat strange happened, and half my post, which seems to be numbered 216, was eradicated.  Perhaps I did something amiss trying to use the blockquote thingy. I’m too lazy to post it again.  So here’s the link to John Winthrop’s &lt;i&gt;On Liberty&lt;/i&gt; (1645)  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.constitution.org/bcp/winthlib.htm&quot;&gt;http://www.constitution.org/bcp/winthlib.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something somewhat strange happened, and half my post, which seems to be numbered 216, was eradicated.  Perhaps I did something amiss trying to use the blockquote thingy. I’m too lazy to post it again.  So here’s the link to John Winthrop’s <i>On Liberty</i> (1645)  <a href="http://www.constitution.org/bcp/winthlib.htm">http://www.constitution.org/bcp/winthlib.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Amike</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173001</link>
		<dc:creator>Amike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 00:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-173001</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’d like to take you back just a little further, to John Winthrop, in 1645.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;I&quot;&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;But if he fail in faithfulness, which by his oath he is bound&lt;br /&gt;
unto, that he must answer for.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;John Winthrop’s shade must be demanding that George Bush answer for failing in faithfulness and we must answer for failing to recognize his inabilities by electing him in the first place.  Happy Fourth.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’d like to take you back just a little further, to John Winthrop, in 1645.</p>
<blockquote cite="I"><p><i>But if he fail in faithfulness, which by his oath he is bound<br />
unto, that he must answer for.</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>John Winthrop’s shade must be demanding that George Bush answer for failing in faithfulness and we must answer for failing to recognize his inabilities by electing him in the first place.  Happy Fourth.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Hardin Smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172986</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Hardin Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 00:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172986</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dan Robinson at 214 — I love Schoolhouse Rock.  I passed a history test in junior high by being able to sing that song in its entirety — and still can — to write out the whole of the Preamble.  I wish they were still doing those for kids today.  We have them all on video — am going to have to see if they are out on DVD for our daughter.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan Robinson at 214 — I love Schoolhouse Rock.  I passed a history test in junior high by being able to sing that song in its entirety — and still can — to write out the whole of the Preamble.  I wish they were still doing those for kids today.  We have them all on video — am going to have to see if they are out on DVD for our daughter.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Robinson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172918</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172918</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here’s one for your list:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.school-house-rock.com/wav/prea.wav&quot;&gt;http://www.school-house-rock.com/wav/prea.wav&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is the preamble to the Constitution as performed by Schoolhouse Rock.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s one for your list:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.school-house-rock.com/wav/prea.wav">http://www.school-house-rock.com/wav/prea.wav</a></p>
<p>This is the preamble to the Constitution as performed by Schoolhouse Rock.</p>
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		<title>By: John Casper</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172894</link>
		<dc:creator>John Casper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172894</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just Asking,&lt;br /&gt;
OT, immediately after the Civil War, imo the plight of African Americans was actually in many ways worse. As you noted, as “property,” their owners had an “interest” in their health and productivity.&lt;br /&gt;
Despite the best efforts of people like WEB Dubois and Booker T. Washington, slavery evolved into something similar, share cropping, but legal. IMO it is noteworthy that as bad as this was, and it was, the ex-slaves never wanted to return to slavery.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just Asking,<br />
OT, immediately after the Civil War, imo the plight of African Americans was actually in many ways worse. As you noted, as “property,” their owners had an “interest” in their health and productivity.<br />
Despite the best efforts of people like WEB Dubois and Booker T. Washington, slavery evolved into something similar, share cropping, but legal. IMO it is noteworthy that as bad as this was, and it was, the ex-slaves never wanted to return to slavery.</p>
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		<title>By: John Casper</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172843</link>
		<dc:creator>John Casper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172843</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just Asking, I am happy to learn that you support the reparations. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“In the South, many States had laws on the books giving slaves not only adequate food and lodging but “passports”, transportation, and gin for a week at Christmas to visit their torn apart families at other locations; slaves were bought and sold as property, and at least had “value” as property.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Roman Catholic Church had “laws” like this too, about the treatment of slaves. Of course the Pope supported the Confederacy, slave-owning RC’s paid a lot of money to the Vatican. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not all laws are enforced. Quotations such as you mention only reinforce the benevolence of slavery. I think that is largely false. One exception would have been Frederick Douglass’ “slave-owning family,” who obviously cared about him. Once, however, you outlaw people from going to school, and you can have sex with their women and they have to bear the offspring of that, it’s a little tought to get sentimental about an institution whose sole purpose was to provide inexpensive labor. Upton Sinclair’s the Jungle is articulate about the plight of surplus labor in the North. We imported the Africans. European immigrants had more choice in their decision to come here. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you want to emphasize “States Rights” in the contiuum and creative tension with Federal authority, you can use Wisconsin as one example of many others that I think are far superor to Jefferson Davis who is simply a white supremacist. WI repealed the Federal Fugitive Slave Act prior to the Civil War.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IMHO using the Civil War has an example of States Rights only does a disservice to “States Rights.” Historically you are accurate though. Lee’s old War Horse, James Longstreet, was an abolitionist. Most Union soldiers were not abolitionists. BTW, did not know that about Betsy Ross, I always thought she did, but will defer to you on that one. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also I would invite you to consider that anyone with any African American blood must have their blood pressure driven up considerably by reading your comments. I know that is not your intention, but I hope you will consider it, because the cause of States Rights is important. With so many examples that are not dripping with white supremacy, I hope you use those to educate your students. If not, please  take care to separate the “white supremacy” from the “States Rights.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just Asking, I am happy to learn that you support the reparations. </p>
<p>“In the South, many States had laws on the books giving slaves not only adequate food and lodging but “passports”, transportation, and gin for a week at Christmas to visit their torn apart families at other locations; slaves were bought and sold as property, and at least had “value” as property.”</p>
<p>Roman Catholic Church had “laws” like this too, about the treatment of slaves. Of course the Pope supported the Confederacy, slave-owning RC’s paid a lot of money to the Vatican. </p>
<p>Not all laws are enforced. Quotations such as you mention only reinforce the benevolence of slavery. I think that is largely false. One exception would have been Frederick Douglass’ “slave-owning family,” who obviously cared about him. Once, however, you outlaw people from going to school, and you can have sex with their women and they have to bear the offspring of that, it’s a little tought to get sentimental about an institution whose sole purpose was to provide inexpensive labor. Upton Sinclair’s the Jungle is articulate about the plight of surplus labor in the North. We imported the Africans. European immigrants had more choice in their decision to come here. </p>
<p>If you want to emphasize “States Rights” in the contiuum and creative tension with Federal authority, you can use Wisconsin as one example of many others that I think are far superor to Jefferson Davis who is simply a white supremacist. WI repealed the Federal Fugitive Slave Act prior to the Civil War.</p>
<p>IMHO using the Civil War has an example of States Rights only does a disservice to “States Rights.” Historically you are accurate though. Lee’s old War Horse, James Longstreet, was an abolitionist. Most Union soldiers were not abolitionists. BTW, did not know that about Betsy Ross, I always thought she did, but will defer to you on that one. </p>
<p>Also I would invite you to consider that anyone with any African American blood must have their blood pressure driven up considerably by reading your comments. I know that is not your intention, but I hope you will consider it, because the cause of States Rights is important. With so many examples that are not dripping with white supremacy, I hope you use those to educate your students. If not, please  take care to separate the “white supremacy” from the “States Rights.”</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Hogan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172787</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/04/we-hold-these-truths/#comment-172787</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you, Christy, for reminding us of these important things- happy Independance Day to you too-&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Christy, for reminding us of these important things- happy Independance Day to you too-</p>
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