
Sometimes, you just need to go back to the beginning to get a sense of how far from the path you have strayed. In this case, I thought a look back at some of our Founding Documents, and the words of our Founders, would be more than appropriate for this Independence Day.
Let’s begin with the Declaration of Independence:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them….
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers….
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power….
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation….
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people….
And, in the words of Thomas Paine, "these are the times that try men’s souls." But they are also the times where we look to our own hearts and minds for guidance and a way forward. And I thought this Paine passage was most applicable in that vein:
The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Many circumstances hath, and will arise, which are not local, but universal, and through which the principles of all Lovers of Mankind are affected, and in the Event of which, their Affections are interested. The laying a Country desolate with Fire and Sword, declaring War against the natural rights of all Mankind, and extirpating the Defenders thereof from the Face of the Earth, is the Concern of every Man to whom Nature hath given the Power of feeling; of which Class, regardless of Party Censure, is the AUTHOR….
To say that the constitution of England is a UNION of three powers reciprocally CHECKING each other, is farcical, either the words have no meaning, or they are flat contradictions.
To say that the commons is a check upon the king, presupposes two things:
FIRST – That the king is not to be trusted without being looked after, or in other words, that a thirst for absolute power is the natural disease of monarchy.
SECONDLY – That the commons, by being appointed for that purpose, are either wiser or more worthy of confidence than the crown.
But as the same constitution which gives the commons a power to check the king by withholding the supplies, gives afterwards the king a power to check the commons, by empowering him to reject their other bills; it again supposes that the king is wiser than those whom it has already supposed to be wiser than him. A mere absurdity!
There is something exceedingly ridiculous in the composition of monarchy; it first excludes a man from the means of information, yet empowers him to act in cases where the highest judgment is required. The state of a king shuts him from the world, yet the business of a king requires him to know it thoroughly; wherefore the different parts, by unnaturally opposing and destroying each other, prove the whole character to be absurd and useless. (from Common Sense.)
Next, the words of Benjamin Franklin:
Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power. (from Poor Richard’s Almanack, 1738.)
And this from James Madison:
Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. . . . [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and . . . degeneracy of manners and of morals. . . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. . . .[It should be well understood] that the powers proposed to be surrendered [by the Third Congress] to the Executive were those which the Constitution has most jealously appropriated to the Legislature. . . .
The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature the power of declaring a state of war. . . the power of raising armies. . . the power of creating offices. . . .
A delegation of such powers [to the President] would have struck, not only at the fabric of our Constitution, but at the foundation of all well organized and well checked governments.
The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted.
The separation of the power of raising armies from the power of commanding them, is intended to prevent the raising of armies for the sake of commanding them.
The separation of the power of creating offices from that of filling them, is an essential guard against the temptation to create offices for the sake of gratifying favourites or multiplying dependents. (from Letters of James Madison, 1793)
And, finally, from George Washington:
…With respect to the advice given by the Author, to suspect the Man, who shall recommend moderate measures and longer forbearance, I spurn it, as every Man, who regards liberty, and reveres that justice for which we contend, undoubtedly must; for if Men are to be precluded from offering their Sentiments on a matter, which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences, that can invite the consideration of Mankind, reason is of no use to us; the freedom of Speech may be taken away, and dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to the Slaughter…. (Speech to the Officers of the Army, Head Quarters, Newburgh, March 15, 1783.)
For more information, take a peek at these handy document links from the Library of Congress.
Happy Independence Day, everyone. Remember, all of those elected folks in Washington and around the country work for us — not the other way around. It’s time that everyone — elected or commoner alike — remembered that very important distinction. We hold these truths…
Related posts:
- “Statesman” Orrin Hatch: I’m a Cynical Horse-Trader, So Don’t Hold My Sotomayor Vote Against Me
- David Paterson’s Lt. Governor Appointment: Politically Astute, Even if Constitutionally Iffy
- On the Rule of Law and Crimes of Torture
- Olympia Snowe Tells Mornin’ Joe How She’ll Hold Up Health Reform
- Teddy Kennedy’s Faith, Active in Love





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

Fitz!
Happy 4th all!
Happy Independence Day everyone — here’s hoping that yours is less dreary and rainy than ours today.
…in the words of GWB – “Screw all that, I’ll make up my own rules”
George W. Bush aint my Commander-in-Chief !
No comment? I beg to differ. I concur. Only the nod to the diety is not my cup of tea, thankfully, they made provisions for that.
Oh he’s your commander in chief alright – that’s precisly the problem.
Perhaps a little light reading on gardening would be to someone’s taste on this national holiday…As the world waits for Le Roi to speechify some pontificacation on the nation.
;>)
Happy 4th to you, CHS.
I can’t believe how many comments you’ve gotten on this site since I went to sleep last night. I tried to catch up, but I’ve got to run to the office and try to get some stuff done.
Keep up the good work FDL, all of you! You are patriots…the shrubites are scoundrels.
Christy you are doing a tremendious job today. I was getting choked up reading the post. My family came to America in the mid 1700’s to Boston and eligible to be a member of DAR (daughters of the Revolution).
There have been some chatter around how TeeVee makes the population observers to life and not participants. The line was, do you ever see anyone on TeeVee spending their time watching TeeVee? How Americans have fewer friends and less interaction with their world.
What the blogs are is a place to draw people back into interacting with their communities, creating virtural communities and connecting people. I think we are breaking the stranglehold of the TeeVee culture.
But since I have been playing around the blogs for 4-5 yrs, become involved politically, I think I have more friends than I did even 10 yrs ago. I consider many here “friends”, Thanks Teddy for your help. And many over at Kos where we have communicated both on the blog and at Yearlykos. The idea that we keep bringing in new members into our FDL family and community.
That is what the 4th means to me. Family and friends.
yay!
“The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted.
The separation of the power of raising armies from the power of commanding them, is intended to prevent the raising of armies for the sake of commanding them.
The separation of the power of creating offices from that of filling them, is an essential guard against the temptation to create offices for the sake of gratifying favourites or multiplying dependents.”
(from Letters of James Madison, 1793)
I’m going to print that out and put it on my desk at work. Thanks.
By the way, have I ever mentioned that FDL is my homepage?
*ilson46201 @ 10:53 am (#5) – The only people for whom he’s the commander in chief are people who are serving in the U.S. military. For the rest of us, he’s the guy we elected to run our country for us. When did we as a nation lose sight of that?
Those founders were some mighty smart fellows.
They’d be branded as traitors today, of course.
OT: Katymine, I was sorry to read about your rabbit. My sister has one, and it’s amazing how sociable they can be.
YKos – CIA Plame Pannel – CSPAN2 – 4:00 PM ET
The only people for whom he’s the commander in chief are people who are serving in the U.S. military. For the rest of us, he’s the guy we elected to run our country for us. When did we as a nation lose sight of that?
I’d say right around 9/12/01, when the Republicans began their systematic effort to paint Bush as a mighty, resolute leader, making all the hard decisions to keep us safe.
The founding fathers envisioned guys like Bush, Rove and Cheney. But these three smarms have found ways to get around the intent of the constitution. “Signing statements used by Bush is the way he subverts the Congress. Packing the SCOTUS and the federal courts is the way he perverts the judicial branch. And Karl Rove is the very effective instrument of choice implemented to subvert the electorate. And threats, propaganda, bribery and out right lies are used to neutralize the fourth estate. If we don’t take back Congress this year, this country may very well be lost. Work, and more work in the local arena is the best chance we have. I think.
Signing Statements anyone?
What happened to states rights?
Immigration bashing?
Perpetual War anyone?
Now wasn’t it Markos who was bashed for calling “Congractors” mercenaries?
If it quacks like a duck, then it is a mercenary!
Thank you Rep Conyers, Sen. Feingold, Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer and others who keep fighting the good fight!
Chrirty:
These quotes are what today is all about.
Thank you for blogging!
“But I’m the Decider in Chief!”
Go get’em, Christy
The founding fathers envisioned guys like Bush, Rove and Cheney.
Absolutely. That was the whole point of checks & balances. What they *didn’t* envision was that the Congress would willingly abdicate all their power to the Executive. They were counting on selfishness and hunger for power to maintain the balance; they never expected this kind of bizarre selfnessness and submission from the Legislature.
America is so much more than its politicians. It is a spirit of openness, of “nothing is impossible,” and of “anybody can become President.” (Unfortunately, a “nobody” can also become President.) ;-)
We have many to thank who came before us. But we sometimes forget just what they counseled.
Christy, your quotes are so appropriate for today that I imagine thousands of readers will be sending the URL for this posting, http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..e-truths/, around to friends throughout the country on this Independence Day.
Happy 4th of July!
I will pass on the sympathy to my girls Cujo359.
That is what a community is all about. We care about each others lives and support each other even if we tend to be a pain in the butt at times.
Those who think the term “Creator” is synonymous with “God” are in error. Jefferson and Franklin (and, I believe, Madison) were Deists. Deist is really just another word for agnostic. Deists supposed a Prime Mover, yet were unsure what force that was. “Creator” (and “Nature’s God” and “Divine Providence”) was used puposefully. Deism’s tools are rational thought and logic, not divine revelation and tradition’s superstition. To the extent there is any Supreme Being in America’s two holiest documents, it is “We the People”.
Christy: Please be careful. If the wingnuts and conservatives find out you are excerpting the Declaration of Independence, and upholding the principle of separation of powers (the president ain’t an emperor!) they will accuse you of aiding and abetting terrorism. Treasonous talk!
Or as one of the nutters might say, “What did the Founding Fathers know about fighting terrism? Thank God we have George Bush around today instead of that other George, the one with the wooden false teeth.”
Treason, indeed.
Happy 4th of July to all us immigrants (unless you are Native American).
what inspiring documents’ what a pleasure to read
I think one point needs to be repeated from thom hartnan, an ibcredible constitional scholar
if we look to the charges against the king which inspired our independence ajd we substitute this george, the parrallels are uncanny
everyone should give this excersize a go
darkblack at 8:
What a hoot!
For those who didn’t bother to click the “gardening” link that darkblack provided . . . trust me. You gotta. In particular, check out the wheelbarrow full of rockets.
Here it is in naked form:
http://static.flickr.com/47/18…..6ffeec.jpg
Looks like we’re all thinking about the same thing today:
[http://www.1boringoldman.com].
What we grew up believing was our immutable bedrock has been undermined and ignored in a systematic and malicious manner for six long years.
I guess one just keeps preaching the sermon until people who need to hear it begin to listen…
Fellow Patriots,
if nothing else, this facist, evil regime has driven my family back to ‘the beginning’ – and we have never been more appreciative of the bravery and prescience of the Founders – like many, there are days when it all seems futile – and then to read the history – the actual words of folks who were willing to sacrifice everything ya have to suck it up and keep going -
if you are a glass is half full person, you have to thank your diety or the fates for placing you here at this time – to do the very thing we were tasked by the Founders to do – fight tyranny, and uphold the cause of Liberty
Christy, thank you so much for the post – it wasn’t too presumptious to expect to see the words of the Founders here today, but I am no less choked up for having read them
OT – What would the founding fathers think of this?
Shuttle lift-off at 2:38
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/live_tv.html
ralphbon says: “Any reason to think Murray’s current source isn’t 12×6?”
July 4th, 2006 at 10:46 am (prior thread)
If his current source isn’t a current senior administration official, could his source be Andy Card?
Katymine and girls: A black rabbit came and sat beside me on my porch one day, and stayed. Ever since, I have lived with a rabbit. Rabbits are uncanny. My sympathies.
By the way, Christy, our girl just ’signed’ the Declaration and printed it out. Is carrying it around in a folder and pursuing Happiness. Thanks so much for contributing to what — should be — Self-Evident.
OT – looks like the shuttle lift-off is a go. just about minutes left in the countdown. For those interested, it’s on teevee
Great post, Christy.
While I was away in England I didn’t get a chance to get online to read the blogs. At one pound for 20 minutes and very little time, I just couldn’t. Boy, did I miss you all. and coming back I felt so out of the loop, it felt like I’d been gone a month, instead of a week.
But on Thursday as I wandered the streets around the British Museum I came across a cartoon drawing of Thomas Paine done in 1791. My first thought was to share it with all my American friends here and at dKos. Today seemed like a good day to do so.
I wrote a diary over at dKos and posted it on our new blog, The Next Agenda, for progressive Canadian politics, linked with my name. Drop by and drop some mojo on me at dKos (doesn’t last long when you’re away) or a comment or two.
If you’re Canadian you might want to sign up at our new blog!
Thank you Christy for reminding us of what we fight for.
The 4th is a day I always find difficult – have since the Vietnam War. The vision of liberty and equality is so moving yet the reality – and not simply recently – has been quite the opposite more times than not. So I tend to ignore the whole thing except to be irritated by the lack of regular news programs.
This year I live in an urban and highly quirky and diverse neighborhood and as I was getting my first FDL dose of the day, I heard sirens and popped out to the corner to watch the neighborhood parade. Like those funky parades in small towns in New England, this was a people’s celebration but with faces of every color of the human rainbow, hiphop marching bands followed by floats with little kids waving and laughing and two groups from local peace groups – much older than me and frail but feisty – and finishing with the Chitown Posse, a mostly african american crew on horseback cowboying down 53rd street with style.
These events bring tears to my eyes – perhaps the reason I normally avoid them since it is so easy to slip … into that jingoistic patriotism, the american exceptionalism, that leads to horrors. Still, to see a community of faces … and one with a political awareness and a pride if diversity mades me smile as well.
And then I return to the news and see more horrors, the fate of children like those I just watched smiling down the street, their brothers and sisters in Iraq whose lives do not include smiles – and whose sorrow is caused by our inaction and lack of power to change what our government is doing. Keep fighting, yes but also keep looking, eyes wide open at what we do and what is done in our name.
mfi has a holiday message (link is in my nick) and today in iraq
http://www.dailywarnews.blogspot.com/
has news of the fast in DC and of the demand by iraqi officials that the UN take over the investigation of the rape of Abeer Qassim Hamza and the murder of Abeer and her family by US soldiers. Abeer was 14 or 15 according to her neighbors.
The arrest warrant for her (alleged?) rapist is found here:
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/…..06cmp.html
OT – looks like the shuttle lift-off is a go. just about minutes left in the countdown. For those interested, it’s on teevee
CNN, specifically.
They better be really *really* sure that foam isn’t a problem.
Launch in 2 minutes! CNN
From previous thread, something that bothers me in the Waas article:
So whay the big rush the end of March 2003 to change the Presidential Order (or directive or whatever it was called) to allow the Vice-President to indepentently declassify information? Remember Cheney mentioning that in the Fox interview and the flurry of analysis after that? The very first article referencing an “Ambassador” was in the middle of March, was it not? I figure they had this thing “contingency” planned very early on.
Sounds to me the were doing CYA as early as March to give Bush plausible deniability of some sort, and it’s evident in the above quote. Bunch of sneaky bastards…
Any of you legal eagles see something suspicious here? Or is it just me?
“When did we as a nation lose sight of that?”
At least partly, imo,it comes from shills in the traditional media who keep referring to us as a “nation at war.”
OT, thanks so much Christy, what cbl wrote so beautifully at 11:24
Liftoff, so far so good.
Thanks Christy and Jane for the constant stream of insight to ponder daily. What a good way to expose how far off course we have strayed with the great founding documents of our nation sounding so foreign as compared to the drool from the neocon fear mongers.
The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted.
Bush may not of heard of Madison, uhhh who?
What a great example of exactly how these thugs have ignored the foundation of our country. Happy 4th!!
Correct me if i am wrong but Bush is the commander in chief if you are in the military otherwise he is still the president for the rest of us.This commander in chief BS is just a way to spin, in classic Rovinian style, the continued “war president” status that has enabled the neocon debacle known as the Bush doctrine or nightmare or …….
(insert negative word here) to flounder.
katymine @ 11:16 am (#24) Pain in the butt, moi?
The right wing wants to replace the ideas of the Constitution with a state defined by Christianity. Then the Ten Commandments would be the rule of the land…except…being Republicans, they would have to repeal one of the commandments, the one that says: Thou Shalt Not Steal.
So all public buildings will display the Nine Commandments.
who can’t read the words of the founding fathers and feel a distinct chill run up their spine at the high standards they set, not only for themselves, but for those who were to follow them – us.
Truly, giants walked the earth in those days…
How can we continue the struggle that these men of such immense strength and integrity set?
How can we measure up to the VERY high bar that they set?
How can we stand by and let all their hard work turn to ashes?
We can’t! So to the Shumers and other sycophants (and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE), from the founding fathers, a big FUCK YOU!
Time to bring out the (metaphorical?) long knives…
y’all want another parallel ?
Tory (Loyalists) population at the time was approx. 30%
found that while reading through Loyalist correspondence
one of the common themes – “Good King George is Our Protector and deserves our fealty “
solid rockets have separated, this looks like it is going OK.
Godspeed to the astronauts.
i highly reccommend that everyone rent the movie 1776 and watch it on this independence day. it is a lot of fun, the music great and the research well done. A fun way to earn your history!
It is amazing to think that a provincial backwater of 4 million people could produce men of such civic virtue and, among them, some the finest political minds of the Age of Enlightenment.
It is astounding to find the aging machinery of the Republic is still able to hem in the ambitions of nefarious men like Dick Cheney and his crony, that ideologue of kingly power David Addington, not to mention the folly of George W. Bush.
being Republicans, they would have to repeal one of the commandments, the one that says: Thou Shalt Not Steal.
And Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness…
And Thou Shalt Not Kill…
And Thou Shalt Not Covet…
And Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery…
Jeez, I’ve already named more commandments than that Ten Commandments wanker on Colbert, and I’m not even religious.
Thanks, Prof. :)
Everybody, don’t be afraid to dangle your patriotism on this Independence Day…
;>)
Shuttle takeoff is shaking my house! GODSPEED!
Unitary executive = absolute Despotism
Oh, I love that sensation — it comes rolling through the woods from the south, a beating pumbpumbpumb. Thrilling!
So, the shuttle out of the woods now, right?
I guess sometimes it’s better to be lucky than smart…
Wonder if there was pressure from Rove for the space shuttle launch today, in spite of the foam problem. Perhaps I’m just being cynical, though I wouldn’t put it past the Bush administration to push for a launch on the 4th. of July. Great p.r. Oh… Rove, Cheney and Bush would never do something so politically crass. Would they?
No Cujo359,at times it can be moi
From Paul Craig Roberts ‘The Reality Beneath the Flag Waving’.
http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=9236
emphasis mine
This is a question that bears examination?
What precisely is ‘american character’?
What is it made of, how is it fed, nourished etc ?
It’s an academic question I suppose, but relevant in the long term if the conditions that made possible the neo-con rise to power, are to be changed. Getting some Dem’s in the house is a start, but the problem isn’t just the ‘elected’ officials.
Christy,
thanks for including the quote from Washington’s Newburgh speech, it’s an incident so little known today, but so important in the history of this country. I’ll spare everyone the history lesson here, but here’s a link to a primer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh_Conspiracy
Every time I read these words and the reaction by the officers present to them it moves me to tears:
Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country.
Even though it probably was ’staged,’ it doesn’t matter, it worked and saved the fledgling Republic from a military coup. In graduate school I used to have this running battle with my minor field advisor (colonial American history) concerning Jefferson v. Washington, who was the greatest founder. Like many such arguments there was an artificiality to it, cuz of course they were both great Founders. So she would run down the extensive list of Jefferson’s accomplishments, then remind me (again) of all of Washington’s shortcomings and then ask, how could you prefer Washington? My answer was always the same, he was the man who could have been king, and said no.
tis a pity the current king george doesn’t read more……
Just like any aircraft flight, take off and landings are the major times to worry. Unless it hits something or something hits it, just flying around is pretty safe.
Since many of the Columbia parts rained down across Arizona & New Mexico….. during their attempt to land.
John Casper @ 11:38 am (#41) – For many years, I worked for people who used to be in the service. The career military guys often had to be reminded that things were different outside the service, that their obligation now wasn’t to follow orders, but was often to question them. Most of us in the U.S. have never served in the military, or served only briefly and were glad to get out. Why do we need reminding?
It’s certainly true that during a war the propoganda of the times emphasises the President’s war persona, and that’s probably as good an explanation as any for our current attitude. If so, then it’s remarkably sad, because it doesn’t feel like we’re in a war in many other ways.
Afternoon, folks! Can’t stay long–due at my folks for dinner in an hour or so.
Re the meaning of today–one of the cable movie channels has been running “Tora! Tora! Tora!” lately. When I see that, and consider the combination of hubris, timidity in the face of power, wishful thinking, and just plain laziness that led up to our being so wounded, I can’t help thinking of the politicians here, left and right, so full of themselves that they can’t see or don’t care about the reality in front of them–even as it eats the nation from within.
Cyber Ruffian at 60
He can read?
This is laugh out loud funny…wonder if the framers had a sense of humour…
The Court Enters the War, Loudly
…”What the court is doing is attempting to suppress creative thinking,” said Professor Yoo…
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..mp;ei=5087
Wonder if there was pressure from Rove for the space shuttle launch today, in spite of the foam problem. Perhaps I’m just being cynical, though I wouldn’t put it past the Bush administration to push for a launch on the 4th. of July. Great p.r. Oh%u2026 Rove, Cheney and Bush would never do something so politically crass. Would they?
I don’t think there’s any question. After losing two shuttles, I can’t believe they would ignore *any* issues without there being some kind of pressure from above. So now Bush can pose and posture as The Man Who Heroically Returned Us To Outer Space (Mars, bitches!).
I’m just glad it didn’t turn into a fireworks display.
Eli– I hope the astronauts are safe, last time they died on re-entry due to a foam problem. So sad.
OK kiddo– I am with you @ your 57– everyone else’s life is cheap to these usurpers.
I hope these brave people come home after accomplishing their goal and work on/in the oceans, for the planet and for humankind.
Eli%u2013 I hope the astronauts are safe, last time they died on re-entry due to a foam problem. So sad.
Me too. IIRC, the foam problem here was on the liquid fuel tank, so with that safely jettisoned, they should be okay – or at least as okay as any other shuttle flight. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
Sophist, when I read this
“This is a question that bears examination?
What precisely is ‘american character’?
What is it made of, how is it fed, nourished etc ?”
I immediately thought of the JFK quote-
Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. (not exact)
And that means holding on to the dream of a true democracy, justice for all. And doing what it takes to keep it.
Josh Marshal doesn’t knoe what to say or think about the “dust up in CT”. WTF.
Interesting article in the Nation:
Apologies if this article by Jennifer Nix has already been around the horn here.
the foam problem here was on the liquid fuel tank, so with that safely jettisoned, they should be okay
Problem is, they won’t know if they got thru the launch undamaged (when the tank was still attached) until they get a chance to look at the shuttle exterior.
To the astronauts: Vaya con dios, mihos…
Problem is, they won’t know if they got thru the launch undamaged (when the tank was still attached) until they get a chance to look at the shuttle exterior.
Gotcha. There’s a risk the tank foam could have broken loose and damaged the shuttle belly?
Eli – you are right. it appears the foam held in place. I’m sure they will be examining all the video footage they have as this will be the most photographed mission. after the main tank separated, the astronauts were to take some still close-ups of it as it fell away.
they also added a longer arm with a camera on the end to the cargo bay of the shuttle so they can remotely inspect the heat shield tiles and the rest of the shuttle’s exterior for damage. If they find anything that is a problem, they will dock with the space station and await a rescue mission (possibly from the Russians).
katymine @ 11:51 am (#61) (also Eli, lotus, zennurse) – The problems of the last shuttle disaster occured during takeoff, but weren’t noticed until after the crash. Hopefully, that’s not the case this time, but there’s plenty of reason to wonder how well things really went.
As I wrote last night, it’s a bad sign when your safety director won’t approve the launch, and bits start falling off the aircraft even before takeoff.
Let’s hope I’m just being the anti-Pollyana again.
Former astronaut on NPR says that they are taking those pictures right now.
ceo #70
At the end Josh does desect that Holy Joe may have cooked himself with this move.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..008919.php
Last time, it wasn’t the belly, it was the wing–I think that’s still the greatest fear, because it’s the most vulnerable spot.
Should have previewed. Sorry. Try that again: How to Create a Liberal Bestseller by Jennifer Nix is worth reading.
katymine–I know what you meant, but “desect??”
Wow. Early fireworks. What a time to miss all the action.
Been involved in a ‘PrOject’ to optimize the OS 9 side of this beastie.
Anyway, great quotes Christy
Just an a aside about NetNeut and Stevens’ gibbersish from previous (iwht apologies if repeats stuff.)
http://www.ipaction.org/campaigns/ipod/
http://www.tvtechnology.com/da…..hp?id=4069
This second dated June 30, Friday.
Lieberman! ugh. What is he good for? Absolutely nuttin’! Say it again, now.
As I wrote last night, it’s a bad sign when your safety director won’t approve the launch, and bits start falling off the aircraft even before takeoff.
Let’s hope I’m just being the anti-Pollyana again.
Even if everything works out fine, and I hope it does, that does not vindicate the decision. It’s not like the shuttle has proven itself robust enough that you can ignore problems and get away with it.
Even if everything works out fine, and I hope it does, that does not vindicate the decision.
Are you kiddin’? For decision-makers under a Rethug president, even if everything goes completely to shit, it doesn’t invalidate the decision…
I’ve recently spent some time at the JFK Library site and have listened to several of Kennedy’s speeches there. Of particular interest today are these two -
Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1957, which then Senator Kennedy recorded for a New York radio station.
And this one:
Address at Independence Hall, July 4, 1962, which I heard live as a 14-year-old along with about 150,000 others on Independence Mall, enduring the Philadelphia heat and humidity just to hear this man speak.
July 4th has been a conflicted day for me ever since the Vietnam war, but this year I’m flying my flag proudly because in my heart I’ve retaken this symbol of my country as my own. I began my day by listening to Kennedy’s recording of the Declaration of Independence and felt that, perhaps, the progressive community will make a difference this year in reining in the reign of King George Bush.
230 years later, I’d love to see Christy’s excellent post printed up and distributed to every person in our government (a Roots project?). It would also make a great petition for us “commons” to sign and present to George Bush, the man who thinks he is a king, and his Rubber-Stamping Republican government. The “unitary executive” is nothing but a king in an undemocratic monarchy.
The rallying cry in 1776 was “George is not my king”. I’ve used that slogan as my sign at protests, with “NOT in 1776 and NOT now” added. On the otherside is Picasso’s “Guernica”, representing all the death, destruction, and corruption of this present government.
Can FDL initiate such a petition?
Are you kiddin’? For decision-makers under a Rethug president, even if everything goes completely to shit, it doesn’t invalidate the decision…
Sad but true. I was speaking of reality and the world of rational people, however. But yes, within the Republican, ah, orbit, even if it blew up like a supernova on the launchpad and wiped out everyone within a 1-mile radius, they would *still* say that it was the right decision, that America needed something positive and inspiring on the 4th, and everyone understands that life has risks…
I agree Cujo359, the stress of take off put the shuttle in a situation that would not sustain the stress of landing.
It is the chicken and the egg line. If the stress of take off had not caused XXX which lead to the brake up or would the stress of landing make the break up eventual due to poor design?
OT – on North Korea missile threat…. I am following the money and defense contractors…. BushCo has tried to push Star Wars but shot down when he has this “non-traditional” war on Taaarrraaa but if there is a country out there threatening to shoot missiles into the blue states on the left coast, then they have a reason to put more bucks into the big black hole of defense spending on that boondogle.
Thanks to ET, sharkbabe, and littledog on the previous thread re: Sousa’s Stars and Stripes Forever, I now can’t get “be kind to your web footed friends” out of my mind. For a really elegant July 4th meditation on the role of “creative” (i.e. Yoo style) lawyering in this or any Administration, I recommend Marty Lederer at Balkinization. Marty was in the Office of Legal Counsel until 2002.
http://balkin.blogspot.com/
Finally, while I would happily watch 1776 again, my favorite 4th of July movie is still Independence Day. Of course, it’s science fiction. We all know that a President would never actually suit up and do some of the fighting himself. Or listen to a scientist. Or fire the Secretary of Defense. It’s fun to make believe, though.
Forgive me for reposting this from last night but I think it has more relevence to the current thread.
Have you ever heard of a patriotic mutiny? Well one happened in New Jersey in 1781. After enduring long years of warfare with inadequate food, clothing or shelter and sporadic pay, the Pennsylvania Line mutinied and intended to march to Philadelphia to present their greivances to the Continental Congress. On the way, they were approached by two British agents who, who offered them back pay in hard cash if they would desert to the enemy. However the mutineers arrested the British agents and turned them over to their erstwhile commanders.
I think raises some interesting points about the concept of patriotism. You can read more here.
Me too, BarbaraB– love that movie! Race relations were oh so cool in that movie too– finally giving credit where credit is due to the many unwilling and willing immigrants to our country.
On this day when we remember the Founding Fathers, it occurred to me that if there was a patron saint of blogging, that would be Benjamin Franklin.
He had his own press, and has his own publications, the Philadelphia Gazette and Poor Richard’s Almanac, and he believed in freedom of the press. Were he alive he would be one of the super bloggers.
Oh, he was also into electricity. Making electrons move would have excited him.
OfT: Here’s an order from Markos. Go to this msnbc story about Alec Station being disbanded Alec Station is the CIA unit set up to hunt down Osama.
Read the article and then — per Markos’s orders — uprate it at the bottom of the page. That’ll push it in front of more eyeballs — only 4 people have rated the article so far. Americans need to know that Bush’s “dead or alive” is now “never mind, nothing to see here, move along people.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13699308/
Miss not having spell check !
I meant Dissect – Captain Goto
Teddy – here is the rating:
Happy Fourth of July all, and I’d like to remind Lieberman, Schumer, and any other Democrat of their ilk that they rule with the consent of the people.
Christy, I’ve been shopping, prepping food, etc., along with watching the shuttle go, since this thread’s been up, but now that I’ve had time to catch up on it, I too want to thank you — not just for this eloquence and today’s work, but for Jane’s and your every effort in bringing FDL to us. You may — but then again, you may not — grasp all that it means and for whom (nor may I), but I’ll just say that this community has saved my sanity and quite possibly my life.
Thank you.
Teddy! One diary and you’re already taking orders! wow, that Markos works fast!
of course, I always follows the kingpin’s orders so I voted just now – twice in fact.
Bill Nelson is on CNN looking all former astronaut and down to earth but articulate and knowledgeable and stuff. Katherine Harris must be tearing her oversprayed teased hair out.
orangejumpsuit @ 12:14 pm (#91) – What’s more, Franklin could be considered a founder of the American press thanks to all the printing presses he sold or gave to former employees and others who wanted to start newspapers in their towns.
I hate to throw water on our fireworks of patriotic sentiment, but one thing about that Declaration of Independence is that as a legal document having any real political meaning, it has been null and void since at least the close of the Civil War. “When in the Course of human events” South Carolina and the other Southern States tried to declare their independence from the Union on the basis of it, they and that document were ground into dust by a bloody destructive war of suppression and occupation. And the Civil War wasn’t fought over slavery (in fact Maryland, a slave State, fought with the Union against the Confederacy) but over whether the Declaration of Independence would have any current political meaning–in fact, the suppression of the Confederacy’s Independence by the Civil War effectively ditched the original Declaration as having any continued political relevance except as an artifact of early U.S. history, i.e., it was one shot deal with the Colonies and England and nobody can ever declare their Independence from the United States ever again, for whatever reasons, or face annihilation by occupying armies, etc., per the *precedent* of the Civil War. Some Independence Day, don’t ya think?
fyi – a good movie for the 4th – The Crossing with Jeff Daniels as Washington – will be on History Channel in about 10 mins.
perilously close to defeat by the British, many of his men close to being out of their enlistments – Washington devises plan to attack Hessians (?) @ Trenton – to do so, they must cross the Delaware At Night in Late December
and oh yeah, they left a little blood in the snow at Trenton so we could BBQ today
You can vote twice, once using firefox and then IE.
Thank you to Christy, Jane, Pach, and all the guest posters — as well as my fellow commenters! — for inspiring my activism on the web and “in real life.” Firedoglake is the central prime mover of something great — generations will look back in wonder at what started here.
Thank you and Happy Independence Day!
hopespringsaturtle,
I know you were just being snarky, but of course his problem is not that he can’t read but that he just can’t be bothered. I read somewhere (probably one of those wild Internets rumors) that he has most issues boiled down to 1 or 2 page synopses, like his hero St. Ronald did, cuz he won’t read anything lengthy or complex. And then he often can’t be bothered even to read those.
pathetic…
naschkatze @ 12:18 pm (#95) – they rule with the consent of the people
That is so 18th Century! These are times of unprecedented dangers. They didn’t have to worry about religious fanatics living in caves in those days. All they had to worry about were trained armies and navies, and their own complete lack of those things.
the cyber ruffian at 11:50 am
Thanks for the link.
In addition to George Washington refusing to assume the monarchy that was offered to him, imo another fact that also significantly elevates him over Jefferson was freeing his slaves upon his death.
cbl @ 12:23 pm (#101) – It’s a good movie, and one of the few times I’ve seen a portrayal of Washington and got a real feel for what he must have been up against.
Happy Independence Day everyone!
Just back from a terrific parade, kids and dogs and people dancing in the street; but the really great part was the intensely political nature of the parade: float after float mourning the distance we have lost from the founding fathers’ vision of our country; mourning the war; the destruction of our beautiful planet. In one the ship of state named “Ship of Fools” with chimpy at helm, was being attacked by the pirates of Pennsylvania Ave, while a panicked Chertoff ran around trying to fend off mutinous patriots who attacked the ship with sabres and cutlasses. Another featured a huge planet earth – about 20 feet in diameter, which was surrounded by (people carrying representations of) war, smog, monster hurricanes. Then a huge oil derrick appeared at the top and began drilling. Finally the sun came out and people ran up with solar panels and windmills and trees. It was wonderful. Several floats incorporated theater that addressed attacks on the Constitution – eavesdropping etc. In one chimpy was identified as an international war criminal.
And then, very moving, five floats, being carried by 4-5 people each, each about 10 by 20 feet, and each crammed with little white flags, to represent the deaths of American soldiers. It took nearly ten minutes for that to go by, and I for one was overcome by grief.
The democratic candidate for Senate, Bernie Sanders -okay, he’s independent, but he’s been endorsed by the democratic party here, I’m fairly sure- got rousing cheers and applause. His multimillionaire Rethug opponent? Deafening silence.
A guy going around with a tin cup collecting money for Halliburton and war profiteers was jeered.
And interestingly, something that seems to be gaining traction – a “Free Vermont” float – the notion that due to the deliberate dismantling of the Constitution of the United States, Vermont is free to declare itself an Independent Republic again. Supposedly 8% of registered voters supports Vermont Sovereignty.
Such is the political climate here. God I love Vermont.
OfT:
Blogwhoring one last time….. For those of you who would like to join me in asking Minority Leader Harry Reid to support the will of Connecticut Democrats as expressed in their August Eighth primary election, please go to my blog at “Give em Hell Harry” and add your voice.
We’re all asking Harry to pledge his support to Connecticut’s Democrats.
http://www.giveemhellharry.com…..anfran/Vjn
1,201 DAYS AND THE KILLIN’ GOES ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Christy:
Your choice of readings is, as always, straight to the heart of the matter…my undergraduate senior project was a paper on Thomas Pain and I remember takin’ a class in early American intellectual history from a conservative who was well-connected to what became the neo-conservative mafia and left the University of California system after brother Nixon fell and landed on his feet in New York and has been on wingnut welfare ever since. Anyways, I remember arguin’ with this guy about whether er not the American Revolution was really a revolution (this bozo sneered at the whole idea)and I advanced the idea that liberal, representaive, republican democracy was far more revolutionary than the revolution of 1919 (this got me in a lotta hot water with the diapered Stalinists and some a the reminants a the New Left but that’s another plot line…). I used Pain’s statement “…we have it in our power to make the world over again…” as a definition of revolution.
Suffice to say that both the neo-conservative, fascist intellectual historian and the authoritarian, left-wing fascists argued vehemently against both the idea that the American Revolution was a revolution and thatliberal democracy and Enlightenment liberalism were the true path to a new world order.
We are now at critical mass politically in this country, a more dangerous and unstable time than even 1860 (I argue that we are jest playin out our unresolved civil war)…the only unifyin’ idea and strategy to restore democracy and defeat corporate fascism is liberalism and a reimplementation of liberal democracy. A good dose of constitutional democracy and a free election are all that’s gunna save us.
So thanx Christy…you and Jane and Pach and the posse you’ve developed are vanguard patriots.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BE AFRAID TA SHOOT BACK!!
orangejumpsuit @ 90 – about Ben Franklin being the original blogger – I’ve thought that many times, and have often thought how much he would enjoy Firedoglake – the delicious wit of it.
Ben Lives!
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government”
A-FDL-Men !!!
Bill Griffith: “My country, Right or Far-Right”.
Benjamin Franklin:
Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.
That really hasn’t changed, aren’t we still fighting king George. Germans and Italians fight for the soccer world cup today instead of the world, well maybe we can progress. Although here at home there is cement shoes for optimistic thinking, That may be more threatening for Christy, so much water and all. Can’t help feeling a bit like a turkey on thanksgiving.
Call me naive, slow, dumb, un-hip, or whatever. But I see the term “blogwhoring”. What does this mean? Seriously.
Call me naive, slow, dumb, un-hip, or whatever. But I see the term “blogwhoring”. What does this mean? Seriously.
Basically, linking to your blog and asking people to read it. “Blogpimping” is similar, only promoting someone else’s blog.
Here’s my Independence Day greeting to Senator Feinstein:
Dear Senator Feinstein:
I am interested to know whether the SSCI was briefed when Alec Station was disbanded late last year. This is the unit tasked with the capture of Osama bin Laden. While al-Qaida may be less heirarchical now, Osama is the mastermind of the September Eleventh attacks that killed over 3,000 people. He should be brought to justice or killed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..r=homepage
Can you please determine why the Bush Administration has determined that the capture of Osama is no longer a priority? It seems to me this is another example of “taking our eye off the ball.”
Thank you for your service to Calfornians and to the United States of America. Happy Independence Day!
Sincerely,
Blog-whoring is when one interrupts the current discussion to promote one’s own blogs elsewhere. see also, skippy the bush kangaroo (just kidding, skippy!)
um, it looks like someone we know made Paul Bass’s July Fourth article in the New Haven Independent:
http://www.newhavenindependent…..poodle.php
Coupla nice Franklin quotes for today:
And this one for the rabid lambs:
Another lamb, this one well-armed (with venom?)
So what is a well-armed lamb armed with?
Me speaking now: The truth and the courage to speak it.
I am reminded of all the businesses open today so our conservative friends can make a buck. So to all our working friends out there making the rich richer, Happy Fourth of July.
Just Asking
I have nothing but respect for the courage and fighting ability of the rebels who fought the Civil War, most of them were too poor to own slaves.
“And the Civil War wasn’t fought over slavery”
No it wasn’t. Slavery of European Americans and native Americans has always been illegal. The South practiced a particularly barbarous form of slavery which was completely limited to African Americans.
Just Asking, did you ever stop to wonder where all the European blood was injected into African Americans? Was there a time of intermarriage that I am now aware of? Most of it is pre-Civil War, because African Slaves could not be imported after about 1810. Impregnating a slave was a great investment. You could sell the slave for cash if times were bad. They were an absolutely indispensable source of inexpensive farm labor. And the North profited from the Slaves too. I am not aware of Northern industrialists refusing to sell manufactured goods to slave-owning Southern plantation owners. Also it was against the law to educate slaves, an omission which has tremendous implications for us today, because as I know you are aware, literacy and numeracy are cumulative over generations.
Just Asking, since the Civil War was not fought about slavery, why did the South give up all that free sex and cheap labor? After the War all the slave-owners had a meeting and just figured, they’d free the slaves? Do you have a link to that? I must have missed that meeting?
How about the legalized white supremacy that followed? There were four high schools in the State of Florida that would admit “non-whites” of either gender in 1920.
Just Asking, have you heard of lynching?
South Carolina and the other Southern States tried to declare their independence from the Union on the basis of it, they and that document were ground into dust by a bloody destructive war of suppression and occupation.
You are also wrong about States Rights and Federalism. Just because the States are “discouraged” from “withdrawing” from the Union, does not completely end their ability to decide how and if they will administer Federal Laws. It’s not a perfect system, but that’s not the Founders fault, nor is it the fault of European American men who gave their lives to free the African American Slaves, such as the First Minnesota.
“Blogwhoring” = rude. Good. Since I have no blog, I cannot be considered rude. Well…at least in that way anyway. I have been called rude, I must say, perhaps with some justification. Thx guys.
Well, I call him the Demander-in-Chief, when I’m not calling him Busholini, Dopey and Darth or Das Bush and Darth VEEP.
Let them eat yellowcake!
It’s fitting that these principles are being revived in CT.,one of the 13 original colonies, through the campaign of Ned Lamont.
Remember The Charter Oak?
July 25th is the last day to register to vote in the Aug. 8th primary. If you’re an independant, you can change your party affiliation by 7/25, to vote for Ned on 8/8.
Do it!!!
Thanks, John Casper.
Ben Franklin also wrote under a pseudonym so he’d be right at home as anonymous blogger “Mrs. Silence Dogood,” don’t you think??
EDITORIAL – Washington Post
Flagging Rhetoric
Once again, the Senate celebrates the Fourth of July the wrong way.
Monday, July 3, 2006; Page A20
THERE ARE TWO things to be thankful for in the recent flag waving over flag burning. The first and most important is that this politically timed effort to amend the First Amendment failed in the Senate, albeit by a single vote. The second is that the threatened four days of more-patriotic-than-thou chest-thumping were truncated to two — which was two more than the Senate ought to have spent on this phony issue.
As these kinds of amendments tend to do, the flag-burning debate managed to bring out some of the worst in politicians of both parties. Take, for example, the smarmy statement put out by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) after the amendment’s defeat.
“Old Glory lost today,” Mr. Frist said, starting on a low note and heading lower. “At a time when our armed services are defending America’s freedom in the war on terror, it’s unfortunate that a minority of my colleagues blocked this amendment.” We don’t know which is more repugnant: Mr. Frist’s cynical invocation of troops “defending America’s freedom” as an excuse for limiting freedom of speech or his insinuation that it was dirty filibuster-like tactics that killed the amendment when, in fact, the Constitution requires a two-thirds vote.
The majority leader went on to inveigh against the “activist Supreme Court decision” that invalidated flag-burning laws. Perhaps Mr. Frist should read the ruling — or at least take a look at the lineup. Among the “activists” in the five-justice majority was archconservative Justice Antonin Scalia.
Not that Mr. Frist’s Democratic counterpart, Sen. Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.), was exactly a profile in courage on this issue. “I don’t think it’s the right time to bring up the issue,” Mr. Reid said. So why break with the majority of his party to support it? “I’m confident it won’t pass,” Mr. Reid explained. There’s a principled stand.
If there is a hero in this episode, it is the man who would succeed Mr. Frist as leader, Majority Whip Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). Mr. McConnell could have put the amendment over the top by abandoning his opposition. To his credit, he didn’t, and he was joined by two other Republicans, Sens. Lincoln D. Chafee (R.I.) and Robert F. Bennett (Utah). As Mr. McConnell explained in a column posted on his Senate Web site, “No act of speech is so obnoxious that it merits tampering with our First Amendment. Our Constitution, and our country, is stronger than that.”
Too bad 66 fellow senators (52 Republicans and 14 Democrats) don’t think so.
Sorry in my 12:52, I forgot to put quotes around this statement by “Just Asking.”
“South Carolina and the other Southern States tried to declare their independence from the Union on the basis of it, they and that document were ground into dust by a bloody destructive war of suppression and occupation.”
“Blogwhoring” = rude. Good. Since I have no blog, I cannot be considered rude. Well%u2026at least in that way anyway. I have been called rude, I must say, perhaps with some justification. Thx guys.
It depends on where you are, really. There are certain blogs where it’s considered a sort of art form…
Allons enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrive !
…
Aux armes, citoyens,
Formez vos bataillons,
Marchons, marchons !
oops, wrong fete. Happy Fourth, all.
Hey, does anyone have a link to Sy Hersch’s latest article?
-GSD
these days:
“when, in the event of coarse humans….”
Cujo at 104, what do you mean that is so 18th century? It’s o.k. with you if the vote of the people of Connecticut is thwarted in August? I’m an old fogey, and the 18th century is o.k. by me–it was the age of reason afterall.
Cujo at 104, what do you mean that is so 18th century? It’s o.k. with you if the vote of the people of Connecticut is thwarted in August? I’m an old fogey, and the 18th century is o.k. by me%u2013it was the age of reason afterall.
Might want to switch your sarcasm antennae back on…
(Or else *I* need to…)
snarkasm.
Norske: the alleged stalinists in your academic cohort should have read their basic Lenin who called the American Revolution of 1776 one of the few genuinely liberating revolutions in human history. Old Vladimir Ilytch Ulyanov certainly thought well of the results of the rebellion against the British King!
Simon Bolivar in South America also revered the US example — the Venezuelan Independence Day is July 5th : they wanted it to be July 4th but the constituent assembly kept talking all day and didnt get around to it until the next day … oh well
Contre nous de la tyrannie
L’tendard sanglant est lev
Entendez-vous dans nos campagnes
Mugir ces froces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras.
gorger vos fils, vos compagnes!
merde! excuse moi, FDL’ers!
Joe may have quit us, but I can’t seem to shake the habit. In homage to Evita Peron:
“Don’t Cry for Me, Our Joe ‘n Tin Ear”
OT – N. Korea launched a missile. said to NOT be the one they were threatening to launch last week or so
GSD says: “Hey, does anyone have a link to Sy Hersch’s latest article?”
July 4th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/…..710fa_fact
Oklahoma Kiddo, some people with lousy content try to take advantage of FDL’s prodigous traffic. IMO, Jason Leopold used to do this a lot under an assumed name. He’d ask if FDL’ers had seen that scoop from Jason Leopold over at
FakeTruthOut. Again IMO, Leopold was simply “stealing” insights he had read from Jane, Christy, emptywheel, Jeff, and so many other great Plameologists. IMO he didn’t have any “unnamed sources,” it was just a ruse he used to cover up the fact that he was stealing.naschkatze @ 1:02 pm (#133) – Well, the people of Connecticut clearly don’t know what’s good for them. Lieberman’s even giving them an extra chance to re-elect him, and I bet they still screw it up.
At least, that’s what I’m hoping.
There are blogs where interrupting for self-serving motivations are considered “a sort of art form”? Humm. Is blogwhoring at these places then, not considered ill-mannered? I did not know this. My, my I really am naive.
Thanks SP,
My brother will be grateful.
-GSD
OT again – Is anyone using Safari unable to post? I am posting with firefox now but there seems to be an unclosed link tag in comment 71 and it is messing with Safari.
He’d ask if FDL’ers had seen that scoop from Jason Leopold over at FakeOut.
I’ve been calling them TruthinessOut, but FakeOut’s even better.
There are blogs where interrupting for self-serving motivations are considered “a sort of art form”? Humm. Is blogwhoring at these places then, not considered ill-mannered? I did not know this. My, my I really am naive.
Well, ideally they should be at least related to the topic at hand, and presented by someone actually participating in the discussion, as opposed to just parachuting in to spam the thread. More economical than a long-ass comment.
I used to be a practitioner of this particular artform, but I gave it up – too dispiriting.
merde was for the impossible translation of La Marseillaise’s stanza by moi without Wordpress’ preview and a complete lack of proper accents.
je m’excuse!
O say, can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming!
And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there:
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines on the stream:
‘Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war’s desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the Heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: In God is our trust.
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
naschkatze
Per Eli at 1:03 who said it much better, and economically than I, part of Cujo359’s “pre-18th Century” sarcasm was aimed at the Rove/Cheney/Bush White House’s frequently invoked misnomer “that is such pre-9/11 thinking.”
.
twolf, could you expand on your 141, can’t find anything about it.
Is this breaking news?
NYT (emphases mine): http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..;Lieberman Tries to Reassert Commitment to Democrats
Psst, y’all: It’s working . . .
Shucks — sorry, no Preview. That headline is:
Lieberman Tries to Reassert Commitment to Democrats
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..nted=print
Thanks for the link, TeddySanFran @ 119. Now who wants to be the first to tell Christy that Paul Bass called her “staff?” Not me, that’s for sure. It would be, as Punaise might say, a fete worse than death.
Lieberman Tries to Reassert Commitment to Democrats
*snort*
Bit late now, innit. “I’m still a Democrat, um, even if I’m not.”
GSD –
Steve Soto interview of General Gardiner, re Sy Hersch’s article –
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/008112.php
zennurse 153 – it’s just breaking – check cnn tv or:
http://news.yahoo.com/
http://www.cnn.com/
still as breaking banner – no story yet
John Casper @ 1:17 pm (#152) – I’m far too reluctant to use sarcasm smileys.
zennurse 153 – it’s just breaking – check cnn tv or:
It’s not heading for the shuttle, I hope…
zennurse says:
July 4th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
There’s this Raw Story headline: CNN, AP report surprise N Korea missile launch;
Not long-range weapon US fears… Developing…
and this from CNN: North Korea has test-launched a missile but not the long-range weapon that the U.S. has been monitoring, sources tell CNN.
John Casper @ 1:17 pm (#152) – I’m far too reluctant to use sarcasm smileys.
A Luddite, eh?
“…-too dispiriting”. Yes. Thx. Again.
o.k. cujo, I guess my sarcasm-detecting antennae were not up. Usually they’re pretty sensitive.
Faux News:
The missile is not believed to be the Taepodong missile that has been sitting on a launch pad for weeks. The missile landed in the Sea of Japan about 600 kilometers from mainland Japan, NHK said.
Does anyone think that any big build up scare you silly on North Korea missile launch is a way to get BushCo Star Wars funded?
Since BushCo has taken the eye off the ball regarding the rest of the world …. where there are MORE nuclear nations…..
I know that Kim Yung Il is nuts and just Bush with a funny hair day, but … since this current unconventual war does not fit the defense contractors who are just chomping on the bit to build Star Wars.
CNN now saying a second missile has been launched
Taking a break from selling thousands of pounds of ice to a broad spectrum of Americans who seem to think that Independence Day is another great excuse to drink and party; long enough to say: Thank you Christy, this post recharged my patriotism batteries.
*ilson,
feel like answering this one ?
had a History teacher pound it in to our heads that 3 of Washington’s most trusted and effective Generals were men he plucked from the ranks – no real military experience, let alone leadership opportunities – am at a loss in my looking for it the last half hour
Nathaniel Greene ? and ? ?
The NYT story is really good, ending with this sign-off, “We all know that the business of politics is that we make decisions and then we’re held accountable for those decisions,” said Mr. Weicker, who left the Republican Party and was elected governor in 1990 as an independent. “Now Mr. Lieberman’s being held accountable and he doesn’t like it.”
Last nite when I came home to NH, I watched with amazement Prairie Home Companion on NH PBS– tears were streaming down the faces of the ensemble and guests as the audience sang. They sang “God Bless America” proudly, with tears streaming down some of their faces.
Let’s get it back before all of our tears evaporate.
I wonder what they were crying for. Were those tears of joy or tears of sorrow?
We have a moment in time now– carpe diem!
naschkatze 12:18
“Happy Fourth of July all, and I’d like to remind Lieberman, Schumer, and any other Democrat of their ilk that they rule with the consent of the people.”
Yesterday I posted a comment on DSCC’s blog that challenged their leadership to remain neutral in the Connecticut primary and to pledge to support the Democratic nominee. The language of my message was not obscene or offensive. At the time I noted that there was at least one similar comment posted.
Late last night, I went back to the DSCC blog and found that my message and any others referring to the Lieberman announcement had been deleted. The DSCC can’t handle “diversity.”
I hope people will go there and post comments about Lieberman. Who knows, maybe they don’t have anyone moderating the blog today due to the holiday. Here is the link:
http://www.fromtheroots.org/
Ironically, the name of the blog is:
“From The Roots.”
Holy cow. All that saber rattling over North Korea, and our guys were watching the wrong effing missile? OK, football fans (among whose number I do not find myself) what’s it called when the quarterback pretends to throw a pass but the ball is really somewhere else? Or in this case two balls? Un effing believeable.
katymine @166 -
Why on Earth would NK ever need to attack us, anyway? Even with a few nukes, there’s no way they could ever hope to defeat us militarily on our own turf, and we would never attack them (I think) so long as they have enough conventional ballistic missiles aimed at Seoul to grind it to dust in a matter of minutes?
I’m not questioning your premise, which is spot-on, just pointing out the implausibility of the Korean missile threat. It’s NK selling nukes to terrorists for quick cash that I’m worried about.
“Japanese government officials say they have received information that North Korea launched a missile on Wednesday morning. Japanese Defense Agency officials have confirmed that a 2nd missile was launched. The officials say the 1st missile was fired at 03:32 Japan time on Wednesday and it landed in the Sea of Japan after about 6 minutes. The Japanese government is trying to confirm what type of missiles were fired. “
NHK Online…
This seems to be a symbollic taunt on it’s face since the missile was not the Taepodong II.
Here’s the story about the first missile:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ea_missile
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..nted=print
Smart lady !
OK, football fans (among whose number I do not find myself) what’s it called when the quarterback pretends to throw a pass but the ball is really somewhere else?
Play action.
Eli @ 1:24 pm (#163) – A Luddite, eh?
I don’t even have a cell phone, and my toaster has not a single embedded microprocessor.
You and me both, Cujo. Ain’t it grand?
Alexander Hamilton was a “nobody” who rose through his close association with General George Washington …
I don’t even have a cell phone, and my toaster has not a single embedded microprocessor.
You have a toaster?
Luxury.
These are chigger bites but will create concern. Any thoughts about what it means? On July 4?
Alexander Hamilton was a “nobody” who rose through his close association with General George Washington …
I guess cronyism isn’t so bad when you have high-caliber friends instead of drinkin’-buddy mediocrities…
New post, y’all.
OT, when I first met my now-former- husband, we were known to live in the International House of Toast. Between all roommates, we had 4 toasters and a funky pizza oven.
Random, I know.
Now I have a Hello Kitty Toaster, burns Kello Kitty onto your toast.
*ilson,
thanks for the response as always – actually did try to find on my own before I went to *ilsonpedia
zennurse – Kim Jong Il is feeling neglected by America. All our attention is on Iraq and Iran. What better way that to launch some bottle rockets on the 4th of July shortly after we launch our space shuttle.
Video of the Lieberman-Bush Kissing float. See if you can spot Jane!
Mighty good day to tug on SuperChimp’s cape, eh, zennurse. Heavy traffic in the upper atmosphere today.
Eli @ 1:31 pm (#179) – I thought “play action” was when the QB fakes a handoff and then throws. IIRC, faking a throw was called a “Statue of Liberty” play for some inexplicable reason.
BOFFO, DB! Thanks!
The “Kiss Float” in Connecticut:
http://www.spazeboy.net/2006/07/boom-box-videos/
What a great idea for a float on Independence Day. The Decider kissing his favorite DINO. Hiliarious!
By the way … who was that lady with the dogs walking behind that float?
zen — It isn’t July 4 there. I think in Asia it’s tomorrow, if you know what I mean.
John Casper,
good point about Washington freeing the slaves. As for your other “conversation” going on upthread, here is what I do when I hear that “well, the Civil War wasn’t really about slavery” goofiness. Used to hear it a lot from the Red side of my family. I started saying with a feigned sincerity, “oh really, what was it about?” knowing what was coming next. As soon as the words “states rights” came out of their mouths I would ask. “a state’s right to do what exactly?”
and then stand back, in case of exploding head…
New thread: “I Love a Parade”
Eli @ 1:31 pm (#179) – I thought “play action” was when the QB fakes a handoff and then throws. IIRC, faking a throw was called a “Statue of Liberty” play for some inexplicable reason.
Oops, yeah. I had it backwards. I think dropping back as if to pass and then handing off would be a draw, but I’m not sure about an actual fake throw (other than a pump-fake, which usually precedes a throw in a different direction).
Isn’t Alexander Hamilton the really tan guy in all those bad movies/commercials?
I knew he was old but….
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..nted=print
“I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”
“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
Happy 4th!!
Dover Bitch @ 1:36 pm (#190) – I think Jane’s the one being pulled along by Kobe and his sisters.
Thanks Christy,
We just came back from the parade. We’re in a small town but it’s a tourist destination, so there were people from all over the country here. A couple of interesting things happened. The peace and justice folks marched with enormous banners with images of a flag draped coffins and the name of each deceased soldier under each one. Their group was in stark contrast to the other festive floats. They all wore black and there was a steady drum beat accompanying them. They told me after that a continuous applause followed them the entire length of the parade route and that people were removing their hats and shedding tears.
At another point along the route a group of crashers snuck into a gap, they carried a sign that said U.S.A. Patriot Act Band. The women were dressed in red, white, and blue. They wore duct tape over their mouths, behind them were guys playing drums in a fife and drum kind of mode (without the fife). They were all in black and had sewn on the backs of thier shirts – Verizon, NSA, AT&T, etc.
The peace and justice people had to fight to be in this parade. The town thought it was not in keeping with their “fun in the sun” theme. I’m so glad they persisted. Celebrating our independence at a time when it is under threat seems somehow inappropriate. They, along with the crashers, added the brevity that the party needed.
Anyway that’s the state of things in Podunk, USA. Civil disobedience is alive and well.
Ned Lamont said, “I think he is trying to have it both ways, and on an awful lot of important issues over the last 18 years, he’s tried to have it both ways.”
That is the perfect point for Lamont to be making. It is so true. Alito, anyone?
. . .
Sadly, we are under the rule of a despot.
John Casper @ 122
Lincoln said over and over again that he would allow slavery to exist and even continue into the future “if it would preserve the Union.” I am no fan of slavery but no fan of false American history either. For instance, are you aware that the Emacipation Proclaimation did not “free the slaves” in the Slave State that fought with the Union (Maryland) nor even in those vast areas already occupied by Union troops in the Confederacy when the proclaimation was issued? It took an amendment of the Consitution to do that after Lincoln was long dead. I don’t mean to fight with you, John, but while it is important to acknowledge that slavery is a de facto evil, so is the wage slavery practiced by the capitalist “Free” North against immigrants, etc., etc.! Nothing nice there… It is also important to acknowledge that the idea of declaring Independence from the United States is now null and void, notwithstanding the Declaration of Independence as a “foundation document” of our Country, since at least the Civil War maintained “our Union” through bloody destruction of that foundation document. Yes, these are facts not taught in the public school system, but are readily learned at the college level when you study history and not civics (which is only local government’s conditioning to create “good citizens”)! I deal with this all the time when teaching my college classes. Sorry if it’s roused you. It rouses my students too! But that’s the beginning of real education…
“Statue of Liberty” play for some inexplicable reason”
The Statue of Liberty in football is so old, I don’t think I have ever seen a pic of it.
The name came as a result of one of the passer’s teammates taking the ball out of his hand, just before he completed the forward motion to throw it. At this point, the ball was held high likethe torch in Liberty’s hand.
To give even more background on how old the play is, it was the FULL back who was the passer back then. FOOTBALL still requires seven players to “line-up” on the “line of scrimmate.” Of the four remaining players, the “backs.” the QUARTER Back was closest to the line of scrimmage and was primarily a blocker. The FULL back was also protected by the HALF backs who were were a step or so behind the QUARTER back.
P.S. And how many of us firedoglakers still believe that Betsy Ross sewed the first American flag? Just asking ;)
Just Asking,
I am aware of the Emancipation’s limitations.
What I would very strongly encourage you to do is find some other example of “States Rights” and Federalism.
Whether a war would be fought to preserve “Union” today is very much in doubt. There is nothing preventing a State from attempting to seceede. Your argument that the Civil War ended the Declaration of Independence is false.
Trying to separate the slavery of African Americans from the Civil War is an old neocon trick. If you’re not a white supremacist, and you don’t sound like it, don’t make their argument for them.
I am not sure what you meant by the “wage slavery” practiced by the North. I know the tariffs to protect Northern industry injured Southern Cotton sales and defacto encouraged slavery. I alluded to that in my comment. It’s not as though non-Slave holding states have a lot to be proud of prior to 1865, but the fact is they did not routinely buy and sell African Americans.
I will grant you that the Civil War was important to Federalism and a very serious setback for States Rights, but it was not the final word. The issues is still in doubt, and worthy of study, and critical to our future as a nation.
I hope you also teach your students about the cash that European Americans owe the descendants of African Americans for the non-payment of wages. Lincoln was a white-supremacist, but his point was you could not withhold their wages and buy them and sell them. World Courts have already forced Germany and Switzerland to make reparations to the descendants of Jews, Poles, and Russians who were enslaved by the Third Reich.
John @ 209
I agree with you. And, of course, I agree about reparations, etc. Slavery is a de facto evil. But you also need to think about context. In the South, many States had laws on the books giving slaves not only adequate food and lodging but “passports”, transportation, and gin for a week at Christmas to visit their torn apart families at other locations; slaves were bought and sold as property, and at least had “value” as property. Contrast this, if you would, with conditions for workers in the Industrial North (that fed off the slavery in the South): no provided housing, no provided food, no vacation, no inherent interests in the value (i.e. medical health) of themselves as workers, no real laws on the books protecting them, even as slave property in the South! After all, there was always another immigrant off the boat to replace any who slacked or fell ill and were tossed out in the street to die. Ugly, uh? The reason why I mentioned Betsy Ross (and nobody so far took up the bait at firedoglake) is to point out that she had nothing to do with sewing the first flag, was in fact a family myth/family business created in 1876. I am then often asked by my very skeptical students: “Well, if Betsy Ross didn’t sew the first flag then who did?” My answer: I think we can all guess who did given the cultural context of Colonial slavery… Yeah, kinda takes the bop out of our flag-waving doesn’t it?
Thank you, Christy, for reminding us of these important things- happy Independance Day to you too-
Just Asking, I am happy to learn that you support the reparations.
“In the South, many States had laws on the books giving slaves not only adequate food and lodging but “passports”, transportation, and gin for a week at Christmas to visit their torn apart families at other locations; slaves were bought and sold as property, and at least had “value” as property.”
Roman Catholic Church had “laws” like this too, about the treatment of slaves. Of course the Pope supported the Confederacy, slave-owning RC’s paid a lot of money to the Vatican.
Not all laws are enforced. Quotations such as you mention only reinforce the benevolence of slavery. I think that is largely false. One exception would have been Frederick Douglass’ “slave-owning family,” who obviously cared about him. Once, however, you outlaw people from going to school, and you can have sex with their women and they have to bear the offspring of that, it’s a little tought to get sentimental about an institution whose sole purpose was to provide inexpensive labor. Upton Sinclair’s the Jungle is articulate about the plight of surplus labor in the North. We imported the Africans. European immigrants had more choice in their decision to come here.
If you want to emphasize “States Rights” in the contiuum and creative tension with Federal authority, you can use Wisconsin as one example of many others that I think are far superor to Jefferson Davis who is simply a white supremacist. WI repealed the Federal Fugitive Slave Act prior to the Civil War.
IMHO using the Civil War has an example of States Rights only does a disservice to “States Rights.” Historically you are accurate though. Lee’s old War Horse, James Longstreet, was an abolitionist. Most Union soldiers were not abolitionists. BTW, did not know that about Betsy Ross, I always thought she did, but will defer to you on that one.
Also I would invite you to consider that anyone with any African American blood must have their blood pressure driven up considerably by reading your comments. I know that is not your intention, but I hope you will consider it, because the cause of States Rights is important. With so many examples that are not dripping with white supremacy, I hope you use those to educate your students. If not, please take care to separate the “white supremacy” from the “States Rights.”
Just Asking,
OT, immediately after the Civil War, imo the plight of African Americans was actually in many ways worse. As you noted, as “property,” their owners had an “interest” in their health and productivity.
Despite the best efforts of people like WEB Dubois and Booker T. Washington, slavery evolved into something similar, share cropping, but legal. IMO it is noteworthy that as bad as this was, and it was, the ex-slaves never wanted to return to slavery.
Here’s one for your list:
http://www.school-house-rock.com/wav/prea.wav
This is the preamble to the Constitution as performed by Schoolhouse Rock.
Dan Robinson at 214 — I love Schoolhouse Rock. I passed a history test in junior high by being able to sing that song in its entirety — and still can — to write out the whole of the Preamble. I wish they were still doing those for kids today. We have them all on video — am going to have to see if they are out on DVD for our daughter.
I’d like to take you back just a little further, to John Winthrop, in 1645.
John Winthrop’s shade must be demanding that George Bush answer for failing in faithfulness and we must answer for failing to recognize his inabilities by electing him in the first place. Happy Fourth.
Something somewhat strange happened, and half my post, which seems to be numbered 216, was eradicated. Perhaps I did something amiss trying to use the blockquote thingy. I’m too lazy to post it again. So here’s the link to John Winthrop’s On Liberty (1645) http://www.constitution.org/bcp/winthlib.htm
The most important part…the part that is totally lacking in all of today’s “leaders:”
“And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”
Today’s pledge: “we unilaterally pledge to each other someone else’s lives, the worker’s taxes, and no honor, sacred or otherwise.”
MJS’s newest song/rap/chant:
Aberrations!
“Abu Ghraib, that’s just an aberration, baby! You know it!”
katymine #77
I guess.
Joe’s self destruction seems important because of the potential chain reactions in the Senate, in the party, in the media.