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In typical Murray fashion, the big nugget in Waas' article jumps out in paragraph 39:
A senior government official who has spoken to the president about the matter said that although Bush encouraged Cheney to get information out to rebut Wilson's charges, Bush was unaware that Cheney had directed Libby to leak classified information....
Let's play guess the Senior Government Official, shall we? Rover? Hadley? It's present tense, so likely not Armitage or Powell...hmmm, Condi, is that you, girlfriend? Someone driving that big ole bus with Cheney's name on it -- and as much as we want to find out who it is, imagine how the Snarling King of All Internecine Warfare is feeling this morning?
That Matalin fundraiser for Scootie-poot takes on a whole new layer of meaning in terms of "firewall mending and maintenance" if the behind-the-scenes activity in the Bush White House is suddenly Bush v. Cheney, doesn't it?
Happy Independence Day, indeed. (Come to Jesus, Scooter, don't be the sacrificial pawn.)
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FITZ & a happy 4th!
happy july fitz
Just finished packing up 40 music stands, drums, cymbals. glockenspiel, music folders and my stars & stripes top hat into the van to set up at the Wasilla 4th of July Parade. We’re going to play “Stars & Stripes Forever” at 10:37 ADT, just as the shuttle is supposed to launch.
I lifted this from Kos, who lifted it from ?:
England loses to Portugal on penalites in the quarterfinals of the FIFA World Cup, but coach Sven-Goran Eriksson pledges that his team will play France on Wednesday anyway as a “petitioning semifinalist.”
Andy Roddick loses in the third round at Wimbledon in straight sets to an upstart challenger, but reserves the right to play in the fourth round so that “all the Wimbledon fans can see him play.”
The Kansas City Royals, 28 games out of first place in the American League Central, announced today that they are “taking out an insurance policy” to ensure that they will be able to play in the World Series if they happen to miss the playoffs.
Hmmm . . . Condi . . .
That makes all kinds of self-serving sense (the only sense that crowd ever deploys), now doesn’t it . . .
Happy Independence Day, everyone!
Was this part of Rover’s little “I’m not indicted” package?
What am I celebrating today?
This blog, and that jacked-up school bus!
Could this mean that Chimpy won’t pardon Scooter?
“…suddenly Bush v. Cheney…” That’d be great. But Rove v. Cheney might produce more fireworks. Either would be more fun than cherry-bombs.
When I wrote about the new Waas story last night, here’s what I noted:
Is this preemptive spin because they’re expecting a shoe to drop?
I’d like to see Cheney’s personal notes on this article…
From the Writers Almanac:
http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/
Today is Independence Day, celebrating the day in 1776 that Second Continental Congress unanimously adopted the Declaration of Independence, and the United States officially broke from the rule of England.
Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence in a second-floor room on Market Street in Philadelphia, on a little lap desk that he had designed himself. Some members of the Continental Congress had hoped that Benjamin Franklin would write the document, but Franklin declined. John Adams was also considered a possible writer of the document, but Adams gave the assignment to Jefferson because he said, “You can write ten times better than I can.”
Jefferson finished the first draft after a few days work and sent it to Franklin on the morning of June 21, asking for suggestions. Franklin made just a few changes. In the most famous passage, Jefferson had written, “We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable.” Franklin changed it to, “We hold these truths to be self-evident.”
Condi has to protect her “husband” from going to jail. If that happened, she wouldn’t be able to see him anymore.
Oklahoma kiddo at 9 — if it’s Rove v. Cheney, then you can be pretty sure that Bush knows about it. And if it’s Rove doing the dirty work, you can be sure Cheney will hold a grudge (along with his wife and daughters). You think Barbara Bush is the only one who knows how to hold a long-simmering grudge? The Cheney women have perfected it. This could turn out to be one long, hot summer if this is internecine warfare…
Swopa at 10 — I have been wondering that myself since yesterday. Haven’t yet wrapped my head around why this would be spun out now — it may just be Murray putting together all the pieces with information he’s had in his pocket that finally fit into a coherent narrative. Or it may be something that recently dropped into his lap. But you do have to wonder, don’t you?
Christy,
a belated thanks for the pic in the last post - we so often concentrate on his evilness, when in fact he is equally the Incompetent Huckster so beautifully characterized in that graphic
omg, am I now a spamber ??
linked this in last thread for everyone’s enjoyment - it is a chance to Join the Founders, Sign the Declaration, and print out a copy - Warning ! there are consequences . . .
http://www.archives.gov/nation.....gners.html
Christy:
Thanx for bringing back the Plame story. Here’s another quote from the article:
“Meanwhile, court papers filed by Fitzgerald in April suggest that Libby was reluctant to leak any classified information to the press, and only did so after being assured that his actions were approved by both the president and vice president.”
At what point does this sink in the heads of teh general public??
Happy 4th. to all you real patriots, the Progressives, out there.
dont blame the Cossacks — they work for the Czar !
Thank you Christy. The pre emptive leak idea is looking better.
You know, it has been a little quiet in Chicago since the City Hall case rested ( I checked the ChiTrib this AM, evidently still no verdict)
When you are waiting for a verdict, the first day or so you pace around, play cards, catch up on your personal correspondence and phone calls. By the third or fourth day, you start climbing hte walls and I would always try to turn to another case that needed work, in an effort 1) to distract myself, and 2) in case I got a bad verdict so I would some accomplishment to show for my week.
Wonder if ole Pat has turned his attention back to the Plame case that got a little neglected during the run up to the City HAll trial?
Kalina77 at 17 — and at what point does it sink in to Libby’s head that Cheney may have lied to him in order to use Libby as the information delivery vehicle? If Bush didn’t authorize the leaking of classified information, but Cheney told him to do it and that the Prez had okeyed it — does Libby fully begin to realize at this point that he is a sacrificial pawn who has now lived out his purpose and usefulness, beyond remaining the loyal firewall who will take one for the team? (And really, who honestly wants to be that guy? I’m still hoping that Cheney has overestimated Libby’s wife and kids and their willingness to tolerate this malarky…family can be a VERY powerful incentive to open one’s yap.)
At what point does this sink in the heads of teh general public??
kalina, it can’t until they hear or read about it — and what percentage of “them” are “we” who know more than the MSM will tell?
AAARGH
Bush was unaware . . .
When I read the article the other day, that line just went past me. Today, though, I almost dropped my coffee.
How many times could that have been said about this White House?
You know something else occurs to me. This Admin. more than any other I can remeber, seems to do a lot of infighting and finger pointing.
As more and more of the infighters leave, the circle tightens. Could be it is now Rove setting up Cheney.
We did speculate a while back, that they were going to throw Cheny under the bus. Maybe it’s starting.
In which case, what message does that send to Scooter? And do we reallye xpect that Cheney will take a bullet for Shrub?
Oh, and just for kicks, let’s contemplate all the other things for which Cheney may have overreached in leaking classified information or otherwise that Bushie didn’t know about? (If, in fact, Bush was speaking truthfully that he didn’t know Cheney authorized release of the NIE information through Libby.) It’s a fun thing, isn’t it, and one that begs some digging through Judy Miller’s articles, at the least…
Christy at #21
Amen! and HAPPY 4th!
This is still the best democracy and we’re here to make sure it doesn’t disappear.
By the way, I started the George Soros book. Right in the prologue there is a great quote from a Russian dissident: “All my life, I’ve been fighting for losing causes”.
Soros goes on to say: “In the social sphere I take positions because I believe in them, wheteher I succeed or not”
Words to live by…
This rekindles in me the hope (with feathers) - that these vile cowardly pricks will end up having to destroy each other - really is our only hope at this point.
Ed* Teller
Just finished packing up 40 music stands, drums, cymbals. glockenspiel, music folders and my stars & stripes top hat into the van to set up at the Wasilla 4th of July Parade.
Now that’s what the musical life is about, baby - you go!
Btw despite its utter abuse by jingoists, The Stars and Stripes Forever is a marvelous & brilliant piece. Sousa was no slouch as a composer and his magnum opus proves it.
lotus at #22:
I know, I know… that’s my point too. We need the MSM to report this.. it looks to me that the WH has a very strong hold on the press, much stronger than Clinton ever did…
Christy, So what do you make of the Matalin fund raiser?
“bush was unaware”
Again and again, I am reminded of Iran Contra.
Bush Sr. out playing superspook doing all kinds of shit that Reagen was clueless about. oh, they may have run the broadest possible description of a noble and legal sounding idea past him, but Reagan was no micro manager.
The Cheney cabal are all well versed in how well that worked. And in shrub, they have a guy who unlike Reagen, is truly cynical and doesn’t believe in the rule of law.
Not to imply I was a Reagan fan, but I beleive Reagan actually believed his own malarky. Bush, is a class A “as long as I get mine” cynic.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the message of Waas’s story is to Libby, as Christie seems to be implying? “Cut a deal dude. There is no escape after the Prez’s testimony.”
1,201 DAYS AND THE KILLIN’ GOES ON AND ON AND…
Happy 4th of July to all and let’s remember all those kids hunkered down in the sand today and those who are sent out with a buddy ta secure intersections and entry points for corporate contract workers to get to the PX to drink Jack Daniels and watch the fake fireworks on Armed Forces Television!!
Please FDLers, this day offers us the opportunity to be real patriots, to commit ourselves to the fight to save our democracy and redeem ourselves and our country… not only for the atrocities of the last 6 years but for the ongoin’ assault on the grand experiment begun in 1776. But we must start with rememberin’ those GI’s, those kids who find themselves in the surreal nightmare of corporate war because they believed what we told ‘em about democracy and responsibility…our politics must start today with commitment to get those kids home, nothing else makes sense until we do that.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T TAKE ANY SHIT FROM ANYBODY!!
Norske at #32:
DITTO!
It wouldn’t surprise me that the current source for Waas is Rove. I think Rove has been cooperating ever since he realized the political calculation came down to whether it was worse for Bush and the whole Republican party (especially their chances of keeping the congress in November) to lose Karl or to lose Cheney.
Karl is much more valuable, and Cheney is dragging Bush down (at the very least, it would help Bush’s numbers on Iraq if he was misled by these ‘misguided Neocons’).
Emptywheel has a recent thread asking whether Libby will have access to Rove’s testimony–being desperate to find out if he talked.
As I understand it, Fitzgerald would have to turn over that testimony if it helped Libby’s case. He hasn’t, so it doesn’t. In fact, maybe Rove’s testimony is a whole lot of bean spilling.
August might be a good month for Cheney to slink away in the darkness…for “health reasons.” (Isn’t August a lousy marketing month, because folks are distracted by life?)
I’m preparing for my annual 4th of July viewing of the Broadway musical “1776,” which seems ever so appropriate here.
The “cool, cool, considerate men” who lean “to the right, ever to the right, never to the left, forever to the right” . . .
A congress that does nothing but “piddle, twiddle, and resolve; not one damn thing to they solve” . . .
Was it 1776 or 2006?
Happy 4th, everyone!
Hear you & lurve you Norske!!
you too Peterr!
“This could turn out to be one long hot summer…” “The…women have perfected it”. Ain’t that the truth. Recall the sweet grandmother’s image that Babs cultured? What b.s. that turned out to be. And Lynne? Absolutely ruthless. And what of Laura? We now have the good-natured, kind, and oh so concerned Laura is a schoolmarm myth. The Bush-Cheney “ladies” are scary indeed. They’re the ones who carry the long knives. And boys, look out!
clbrune at 34
In the last couple days I read that Cheney just had a physical and his heart is fine.
You may be on to something. Maybe “someone” suggested to him that it was time to go “for health reasons” and he released the doctors report as an FU?
I had the feeling, I think I said the hairs were standing up on the back of my neck, a few weeks ago thet “spmething” was happening.
Just a weird vibe and someone else said the same. Maybe we really did pick up a vibe?
Norsk
Thank you.
Peterr
I love 1776. What a nice traditon
CHS: If Bush didn’t authorize the leaking of classified information, but Cheney told him to do it and that the Prez had okeyed it—does Libby fully begin to realize at this point that he is a sacrificial pawn who has now lived out his purpose and usefulness, beyond remaining the loyal firewall who will take one for the team?
Is it really possible that he’s just figuring this out? I don’t doubt you could be right, since he’s been awfully quiet but for the nervous shufflings of his lawyers. I guess it just shows how differently different minds can work. Maybe he, like his boss, forgot that he’s just another Cossack. (My theory of the case is that it might have started with a small Cheney transgression of Deciderdomness that turned into a big one when he tried to smother it.)
Again and again, I am reminded of Iran Contra.
Me too — and that’s how TreasonGate is going to play out. Pardons for the perps, and the public left in the dark.
Even if there are Congressional Hearings and Libby is subpoenaed, the White House will forbid him to testify — on the grounds that it threatens National Security.
The Bush/Cheney/Rove Crime Syndicate are above the law. They have no more respect for the law than a Sears catalog in a crescent moon comfort station.
We say that no one is above the law, even a President; that is all well and good. But when a President declares that he IS the law, and everyone in his Administration agrees, who will enforce the law against him?
That is the question — and I don’t have the answer.
OK.
Gotta go. I am supposed to be making progress on a book outline today. I have been skyving off all weekend.
Time to work
what’s to stop the pardon from unrolling as soon as the trial comes up/
then, if there is no turnaroundin Congress. We are mushrooms in the dark.
You know, wallowing in doom and gloom doesn’t get us any closer to a Democratic Congress. How about channelling that energy into a campaign near you instead? Proactive instead of wallowing can do you a world of good.
Let me put on my tinfoil Yarmulke:
http://www.ericisgreat.com/tinfoilhats/kosher.jpg
Somehow I feel real soon we are going to see how this escapade with the Wilson’s will bring down the cabal, hopefully for good.
Ck,
in Iran Contra, the pardons took Larry Walsh by surprise. They took a lot of folks by surprise. What killed me was that Walsh did not challenge them in court.
It is not a slam dunk that they will stand up. There are law review article s about whether or not you can do pre emptive pardons. Libby is a pardon expert, I’m sure he is aware that this IS NOT A SETTLED AREA OF LAW.
Pat Fitz was already a lwayer and a prosecutor when Iran Contra happened. Do you honestly think he didn’t learn anything from that piece of history?
Do you honestly think he has not spent a great deal of time thinking through how to either block or respond to an attempt of that kind?
lastly, If we have a Dem congress, do you think no one in that congress (or even Howard dean) has learned any lessons from Iran Contra or the Clinton impeachment?
Oh, and did you know that Pat engaged in a very bitter litgation over getting a rule 6g order to release GJ info, and won? Won huge? he is probably the country’s biggest expert on the subject at hs moment.
He has many many cards to play yet
I would have to say my delight in this whole sordid affair comes from the fact that these third-grade bullies have to sit in front of regular folks and try to explain their behavior. It must truly be uncomftorable for them to actually be held accountable. Ho Ho Ho.
I don’t think Rove was Waas’ source because I don’t think Waas would trust him.
OFG at 48
Is that a Santa HO ho ho? or a Jolly Green Giant ho ho ho?
If Bush really does have Narcissistic Personality Disorder as I suspect, a falling out with Cheney is inevitable. Indeed, a falling out with anyone who tries to be independent.
lhp 46 — now THAT’s welcome news about our Fitz. On how many different avenues must he be thinking five blocks ahead of ‘em, though? So many exits to block!
I was EPU’d, but don’t forget about our friends the Wilsons who have a personal stake in the outcome of this, as well as brave and outspoken patriots like Larry Johnson who have been affected by this crime in ways we can never really know. After hearing Joe and Larry at YearlyKos, I am certain that a presidential pardon had little meaning for them in terms of a roadblock to justice. They expressed their concerns as not only personal but patriotic; they saw many of these permutations long before now and are still among the faithful. I remain in their camp. Joe, Valerie and Larry know even more than we do just what was sacrificed by this cabal and how complex the situation is. We don’t know what the outcome was for the Brewster Jennings action, we can only imagine. They can’t speak about it, but they certainly understand the implications of allowing this issue to slink away under the cover of Cheney’s paranoia and Bush’s power grab.
Cheney’s health - Message to Bush: “Ain’t gettin’ sick.”
I think I’m batting 0-6 on these sorts of predictions, but what the hell… I’m guessing Cheney used the word “cumbersome” when asked by Fitz why he authorized the leak of the NIE portions when a declassification process was in progress. Hence the presence of the the word in Fitz’s snark.
Once the “Man of Zeal” leaves he will be fair game. Just can’t wait to see those energy policy details.
CHS @#45
Jane said she was going to put my post up today. At least I think she meant today. I suggest all Eeyores invest a little shoe leather soon. The hard part is the first door, after that it gets a little easier, sometimes it’s fun, and always worthwhile.
Bin Laden gets his man!!! This is must see from over at Kos LOL
http://i43.photobucket.com/alb....._laden.jpg
1,201 DAYS AND THE KILLIN’ GOES ON AND ON AND…
Peterboy,
“What’s to stop the pardon from unrolling once the trial comes up?”…the answer ,of course, is the civil suit and a new Congress. Do NOT dispair, we are in a real tub a shit and somebody stole the soap but we ain’t done yet. If I hear any pseudo-cynical “woe is me, we are all lost” shit tady, I’m gunna come down with some real Scandanavian nasty…kinda like bringin’ Swedish meatballs ta the potluck!!
So…
KEEP THE FAITH WITH OUR SOLDERS AND OUR CHILDREN AND KEEP THAT DEFEATIST BULLSHIT OUTTA MY YARD!!
lhp @# 50
It was a Hunter S. Thompson Ho Ho Ho. I’m channeling today.
tinfoil hat collection
http://www.ericisgreat.com/tinfoilhats/
The hubster and I are wearing Tin Foil Tri Corners all day !
Christy at 45;
No wallowing indeed. My candidate for Congress is Chris Carney, an intelligence analyst for the Pentagon, teacher and father of 5.
He’s running agains Don Sherwood who is our local Tom DeLay. I smell a win and we’re gonna’ make sure it happens.
One seat at a time…
The plan is the same. The world is different. And I think RBC is much more traceable than GHWB was, as you say GWB is certainly more obvious than RWR, and many more toes of civil servants who won’t be silent forever were stepped on, the looting has been too gross, and as has been pointed out upthread, we actually already know quite a bit. Now all we need is an easy way to work a complete shift in our political culture, …
Since Cheney grabbed all that extra power, and with the “unitary executive office”, we know who really has been President (and it isn’t the hand-puppet).
Cheney won’t leave office.
He’ll manufacture another war, if need be, to keep a firm grasp on the reins of power.
Bush can’t control him, and I doubt if Rove can damage him enough to get him impeached. (At this point, I’d rather impeach Cheney than Bush, because I think he is more responsible for the destruction of my country and everything great we once stood for… and Addington, Libby, etc., are Cheney’s evil minions).
Bush is content with trappings (his name and seal is on everything except his underwear, and I wouldn’t bet against that) and photo-ops and state-paid-for trips overseas. Cheney is greedy for real power, and will never have enough, just like he’ll never have enough money, or shoot enough penned birds. Absolutely corrupt.
What does the law mean, when it is dismissed by the whim of a madman?
#62:
I think the shift is actually happening. In my conservative PA area, when a wingnut writes some diatriabe against the Democrats in the local paper, he gets counteres immediately by not just one, but two writers.
Just a year ago, it used to be that the exact opposite.
People see how the war is going and how tha gas prices are going and they’re thinking.
In the midst of my cynicism over all this seeming infighting between the insiders at the White HOuse and OVP, it occurs to me that the old rule of the GOP taking care of its operatives, as long as they stay loyal, has been shot to shit by this group, see C. Powell, C.T. Whitman, Brownie, and others who were used when they were useful, then tossed aside like old hankies when no longer needed. The old confidence in being well protected and padded, no matter what happens, may not be so convincing to those who see themselves in Fitzgerald’s sights.
“I think the shift is actually happening”
Yeah, I agree. Not a lot of signs and wonders yet, but people are much more willing to share a few opinions and observations, so that you can guess how they really feel. some of the yowling we hear from the wingers is just protest against this fact.
Thanks to Atrios for this extended clip from today’s Kristof. We can only hope that Pinch and Keller may yet climb on board with it (the punctuation looks okay from here, but with Preview taking a break, I can’t promise):
From your mouth to Pinch’s ear, Nick.
…manufacture another war
North Korea vowed on Monday to respond with an “annihilating” nuclear strike if it is attacked pre-emptively by the United States.
The Bush administration responded sternly, saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.
“Should North Korea take the provocative action of launching a missile the U.S. would respond appropriately, including by taking the necessary measures to protect ourselves,” Julie Reside, a State Department spokeswoman, said.
Does not look good…
thanks for the uplift. not venturing despair just looking for answers. I will never give up on fighting this administration.
Have a vigilant and rejuvenating 4th, all ye lambshers of the left!
As other papers likely do, the Boston Globe today turns over its entire editorial column to a reprinting of the Declaration of Independence. On the opposite page, there’s a long column by George Lakoff on “Understanding the Meaning of Freedom.”
http://www.boston.com/news/glo.....f_freedom/
Over at Faneuil Hall, as they have done for decades, the city elders will walk out on a second floor balcony and read to the cheering citizens — families, kids — below the entire test of the Declaration. It is stirring.
lotus — thanks much for posting the welcome Kristof column in the NYT. I’d seen it but assumed it was behind the wall.
scarecrow, it is behind the wall, but Atrios shares that much. Meanwhile . . .
Heckuva job, BushCo:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin.....urity.html
You know, the smartest thing a Democratic candidate could do right now is to make a Big Stink about Bush not being like his dad and pardoning his buddies.
We need to start “Operation Pardon Me?!” This is the constant hammering on the idea that Bush, Cheney, Rove and the rest could save their necks by offering up a fat pardon to Libby. We need to make this politically untenable, and here’s how:
Have somebody like John Conyers start up a petition urging Bush to pledge not to pardon anyone connected with his administration and the Plame outing. Yeah, Bush’ll ignore it — but it’ll make an excellent tool to a) keep the issue before the public eye, and b) put the political heat on other Republicans during an election year.
Taking Christy’s advice to be constructive, I’m organizing my thoughts for the epic diary project:
What do Democrats Stand For?
This is the most important question facing our party — until we have a coherent narrative and simple, salient sound bites that can be used by every candidate and field canvasser, our cause will face an uphill battle.
The GOP mantra is “less government, lower taxes, and more freedom.”
It’s all BS of course, and “more freedom” has been replaced by “daddy Bush will keep you safe” — but the GOP has a narrative, and people believe it.
So what is the Democratic Narrative? What do we stand for?
Hope and Opportunity.
Democrats want Government that is Honest, Fair, and Real.
We want everyone to have a chance at the American Dream.
We want everyone to have the opportunity for a good education, a good job, decent health care — all of these and more are part of real security, that everyone deserves.
=====
Anyway — that’s the kernel; turning it into useful diaries to create frames and narratives and sound bites that will give people reasons to buy into Brand Democrat is the challenge.
But at the least — it asks some of the right questions.
Peterr at 45:
Is there a DVD of “1776″? I have the soundtrack and saw the stage play back in the 70s. It’s a great play that reminds us how important our liberties are, and that it is up to all of us to protect those freedoms.
Happy 4th to all.
There is in fact a DVD of 1776. It looks great.
Remember Josh Bolten’s 5-Point Plan –
1. DEPLOY GUNS AND BADGES.
2. MAKE WALL STREET HAPPY.
3. BRAG MORE.
4. RECLAIM SECURITY CREDIBILITY.
5. COURT THE PRESS.
– that 5-point plan? Well, good ol’ Doc emptywheel searches for its pulse in a 75th-day checkup. Her patient is doing right po’ly.
Completely OT
Forgive me, please for jumping in OT, but every time I see this problem, it’s past new thread time, so why post?
It’s the use of the term “voter fraud”.
Doesn’t that suggest that the voter(s) have done something wrong? You know, poor, commie, black, brown, hippy, liberal, illegal hordes trying to throw the election?
Seems like we should be saying “election fraud” or something like that.
All we need is for everybody to accept “voter fraud” and when Rove or Blackwell comes up with some hapless newlywed trying to vote . . . ta da! Told ya voter fraud was widespread.
Anyway, I guess the Establishment Media will continue to use “voter fraud” but I am begging us here in the light to frame it some other way.
OK, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
What is the best face one can put on the President’s handling of the CIA leak case? One might claim:
That it was normal/legitimate for him to direct his VP to get information out that would counter the view that his Administration had knowingly giving the American people false intelligence in leading the country to war.
And further that he decided, in good faith, to make previously classified information available to the public to show that the information he relied on supported his decision.
And that he never directed anyone to disclose the identity of a CIA operative or to misuse classified information.
Fine. Suppose we accept all that at face value (never mind all of the selective disclosures and selective non-disclosures, as Mary points out in prior thread). But what next?
By the time of the Novak column, and certainly thereafter, the President and his men knew that something had going astray, that classified information had been leaked, and an agent likely outted, whether deliberately or through recklessness. So what did the President do then?
If one assumes good faith by Bush, then he would have demanded an explanation immediately. His top people would have been tasked to find out what happened. What went wrong? Who screwed up? Who’s responsible for this outcome? Why were several members of his Administration deliberately telling the press, as Condi did, and others, to go find a particular person in the CIA,who just happened to be married to Wilson, and ask them about how intelligence information was verified by the CIA? He would have demanded that his people, including his Attorney General, find out the facts and let him know. Giving Bush the benefit of the doubt requires that we assume he did this. Because if he didn’t . . .
But as of this moment, the WH has never acknowledged publically that anyone in or connected to the WH did anything wrong. No one has been demoted, sanctioned, or fired. So even under the best, “good faith” scenario, how can this be?
Every time Murray Waas exposes a little more of the truth, he peals off another element of the “good faith” scenario. But even if he didn’t, there is, and always has been, more than enough to condemn this President’s disrgard for national security.
Digby’s got them knives out again.
Well, hi everyone– I was away near the Cape for a couple of breezy, sunny days and friends. It was lovely and today we are back inland in NH with hot, hazy and humid conditions. While there, I thought for maybe a moment that the climate crisis could perhaps be a nightmare I was succumbing to, and then I saw hundreds of seemingly dead trees– caterpillars have defoliated them as though napalm had been rained down from our mighty planes.
We visited friends one of whom (male) is quiet and seemingly inactive wrt politics and the other (female) who listens to Severin, Coulter, Ingraham and others and thinks it the truth. I had brought the Dixie Chicks and Fahrenheit 911 just in case… they loved the Chicks and then we brought up An Inconvenient Truth. Our true believer said, warming happened once before and I am not worried. We talked about recycling– she said she wants to save money and therefore will start. I said whatever your purpose, that’s great! I never did put in Michael Moore and skirted many opportunities in order to preserve the open and friendly atmosphere.
They listened and did get a copy of the Chicks. It’s a tiny crack in their thinking. It’s enough… for today. She said, they hate Bush and were out of line. I said, well, think about this song as if your husband had cheated on you and had broken the contract of marriage. She said, let me hear it again– oh, you’re right! I said, that is what the president has done many times to us.
So I just want to thank you all for your interaction and education wrt talking to others and each other. It’s funny, I used to hold it all inside and blast people with everything right out of the gate at the earliest opportunity. Now I take my time, LISTEN, compliment when they do/ say something good about any particular subject, agree when I can, find common ground and then try to make a point, thank them for their attention/dinner/consideration, retreat, LISTEN and never tire.
They love Neil Young– how I wish they could hear his new CD– we watched and played plenty of his music. The CD goes into the mail tomorrow. The two men jammed on guitars and sang his old tunes late into the night while we listened and chimed in when we felt like it– they’ll remember when they listen to the new CD.
The inner angie still wants to holler from the hilltops, but the outer angie will do whatever it takes.
Thanks y’all.
Christy. Good posts! Thanks for the pickup, & thinking fodder.
my 2 cents, which doesn’t amt. to much …
Wouldn’t Cheney leaving/being forced out leave the admin. rudderless? Certainly jr. doesn’t want to run the whole show. It’d cut seriously into his bike time.
And what’s with rummy these days? Is he effectively “out” already, or do you see signs he’s still pulling some strings? Unless I haven’t been paying attention, it seems he’s been yanked back behind the curtain.
I accept the fact that rover’s a master manipulator of sorts, but I can’t imagine he could run virtually everything. I wouldn’t even think he’d want to. Manipulate public opinion & stab anyone in his way just to survive, yes, but I don’t see him desiring any great role in history of the universe, unless I’m totally misreading H.R. Slimyness.
Or-r-r. Have the wheels already come off, & are they all just looking to bump along pretending to care, but essentially giving up on any substantive legacy?
Their normal herd of supporters who show up on talking head shows seem limp & out-of-sorts, as if there is no leader, no direction, nothing to follow, no real hope for their ‘grand dream’.
Do you feel it? or did I just dream it all?!
Following orders: You want a good, healthy, blood ‘n guts rah rah for a progressive candidate? Sherrod Brown gonna beat the tar out of DeWine for Senator from OH. They don’t come much better! ;->
the story told my Waas this week is plausible, except for one thing…. supposedly Hadley (who was Cheney’s guy on the NSC) was “out of the loop” on the “insta-declassification”. Sorry, don’t buy it.
Oh, and I don’t think Condi (or her minions) is the source. Rice has done her best to keep herself out of this controversy, nor is there any reason to suspect that she would know what Codpiece had testified to….
Rove, on the other hand, would not only know what Codpiece had said — he probably coached him on it. I mean, who else could this be….
One senior government official familiar with the discussions between Bush and Cheney — but who does not have firsthand knowledge of Bush’s interview with prosecutors…
In other words, its someone who wasn’t in the room with Bush, but was told about the interview. Now Bartlett and Miers are possibilities, but Rove is the obvious choice.
EXCELLENT, angie! A stone at a time, as Prairie Sunshine says.
lotus at 78 - the patient’s feelin’ a mite puny, eh?
Happy Independence Day, all.
lhp, I know you’re gone now, but thanks again for all the insight you and Christy offer into the challenges facing prosecutors. I know in just the last year or so, several prosecutors in Abramoff-related and other public corruption cases have been promoted right out of their investigations. There is so much pressure, as you said, that we never even see. It makes me appreciate even more the difficult job that these professionals do for us. So to all the hard-working, honest prosecutors out there, past and present, thank you.
Christy — I have to wonder about the “throw Dick Cheney under the bus” scenario. I assume that more than any person alive, Dick Cheney knows what the President knows - or more precisely, what the President knew about WMD at the time he led the country into war.
If this is true, then Bush and Cheney are in a death grip of mutual silence. In Franklin’s terms, they must hang together or they they will surely hang separately.
The alternative notion that Cheney knew and manipulated all the real/unreal intelligence, but that Bush wasn’t smart enough to sort it out and just relied on Cheney, never seemed convincing. I’ve always believe that Bush was non-intellectually, but he had a cunnining-type of intelligence. And I don’t see how it would serve Bush, or a Bush loyalist like Rove, to make the President’s survival depend on that “I’m stupid” defense.
This all suggests to me that there is some other explaination for what is happening wrt to the Waas story and the presumed “leaks” that support it. But I don’t pretent to know the answer.
It’s Independence Day, so permit me to air a pet peeve. And no offense intended.
Statements like ‘The USA has the best system in the world’ are well-intentioned, but they serve to stifle constructive criticism. And they purport to be an informed conclusion from a comparative analysis, but are they really? Is it really self-evident that we have the world’s most democratic society after six years of Bushco installing police-state practices? I don’t mean this as America-bashing, but wouldn’t it be better if we could borrow selectively from places like Cuba, Israel, South Africa, or Sweden? For example, wouldn’t most FDLers prefer that our various government entities had proportional representation?
Well, that’s off my chest. Happy Fourth everyone. And thank you, FDL. You’ve helped keep the lights on through some dark times.
Paul, if it’s Rove, why is he talking to Murray?
angie at 82, thanks for that. I am still learning to pick my moments - in my family growing up we tended to debate everything with no holds barred, and most people aren’t too comfortable with that type of discussion.
Bill Winter is running against Tom Tancredo in the CO-6th CD — he’s a great candidate, that deserves netroots support.
If you are registered at dKos, please stop by and recommend this diary. If you can afford it, please donate to Bill’s campaign.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/4/12920/45929
Bill Winter CO-6 : 4th of July
My name is Bill Winter and I’m running for Congress against Tom Tancredo in Colorado’s Congressional District 6.
As a candidate, I’m often told to be careful about what I say so that it is not used against me by my opponents. To that advice I say this–caution is not something I learned in the Marine Corps and the Navy. The Marines are not cautious. The Marines charge in where even angels fear to tread and that is something I will never change about myself.
I am tired of cautious candidates and people who don’t stand up for what our Nation is supposed to stand for. I’m tired of people who pander to various groups every two years but then do nothing when those people really need them.
Where was caution in 1776 when patriots stood up against the greatest military in the world with nothing more than muskets? Where was caution on the ridge at Gettysburg when men died for the idea that a nation could exist to provide freedom? Where was caution in 1944 when Americans went up the beach at Normandy or Tarawa or Iwo Jima? And where is caution today when young Marines walk patrol in the streets of Fallujah and Najaf?
I will NOT be cautious. I will stand up for what I believe. I will stand up for America and for equality and for human rights.
Sharkbabe 27
I love the Stars and Stripes march, too.
I used to be able to whistle the piccolo obbligato - - brilliantly, I thought - - but I’m afraid I’ve lost my whistling embouchure in my old age.
Ah, youth . . . .
Edward Teller:
I wish I could see and hear your band! It sounds delightful.
scarecrow at 87 - I agree with you that Bush has a cunning type of intelligence, but I also think that when he trusts someone, he’s pretty happy to do extensive delegating and not bother himself with details. Haven’t we had reports that Bush delegated foreign policy to Cheney, since he was the “experienced” one? (Lord spare us that kind of experience . . .)
The Frontline special that just aired on Cheney made the point that one of the reasons Bush and Tenet built a rapport is that they both preferred quick sketches of situations rather than bothering with extensive detail. I find it pretty plausible that Bush was given just enough information to believe he was making informed decisions, while in fact remaining largely ignorant of a great many things. Not necessarily because he couldn’t understand them if he tried, but because he’s too impatient and disinterested to be bothered with understanding them. In that context, I have no trouble believing that Cheney was behind all the manipulation of intelligence, and Bush just heard what he wanted to hear - “it’s a slam-dunk, Mr. President.”
OT but never far from our hearts and minds:
In HufPo, Marty Kaplan contemplates A Republican Democrat.
Paul L: In other words, its someone who wasn’t in the room with Bush, but was told about the interview. Now Bartlett and Miers are possibilities, but Rove is the obvious choice.
Under this thesis, I’d pick Bartlett, a political operative, loyal to the President and convinced that the VP’s excesses are responsible for dragging the President into the worst of the swamps. Rove would seem to evoke the VPs rage and revenge, whereas Bartlett can be seen as someone worried about the President and his legacy and not himself. He’s the type who might be open to a delegation to the VP saying, “sir, for the good of the country, [and the party]. . . we think it’s time for you to voluntarily step down.”
I’ve thought since last year that the VP would voluntarily resign for “health” reasons, to help the Repubs in 2006, so I was surprised at the story last week that said the VPs health was just fine. So the Waas’ stories leak, in my fantasy, is a response from the Cheney-needs to leave group to the VPs leak that his health is fine. Of course, this scenario is only a WAG a best, or at worst.
This might make you laugh:
John Yoo on the Hamdan Ruling
I mean, how long is the rest of America gonna put up with this “unaware” shit ? Am I that fucking deluded in thinking, “forever” ?
Is it just me or does the pic of His Evil Lordship in the post below look alot like a demented muppet? Must be the camera angle.
(my deepest apologies to Kermit,Miss Piggy,Sam the Eagle,Animal and Dr.Teeth,Grover,and all the rest)
prostratedragon — “creative thinking”???? Let’s see: The Constitution does not have checks and balances; Congress has no role in/during war; the President’s power are unlimited; torture is a swell idea; the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to us. etc. Very creative views.
It seems Boalt Hall’s most infamous professor of “law” is in creative denial.
I have a gut feeling that the means of discrediting Wilson, outing his wife, was Bush’s particular