As I was doing my morning read-around, something that Glenn had linked to this morning caught my eye — and it seems perfect for this Fourth of July holiday period. We’ve often discussed here at FDL the concept of liberty and of rule of law and all of the concerns that we have, individually and collectively, regarding the Bush Administration’s and the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress’ disregard for the long-term consequences of their appalling failure to live up to balance of powers expectations and the poor precedent that is being set by a number of their ill-considered actions.
It’s an interview between another blogger — Andrew Schmookler of None So Blind — had with former Reagan Administration Deputy Attorney General Bruce Fein. The entire discussion is amazing, but there were a couple of points that I wanted to pull out and highlight for everyone.
First, Fein on the obligation of Americans, regardless of partisan political loyalties, to be first loyal to upholding the Constitution and the rule of law:
I have never perceived our magnificent constitutional dispensation as a partisan issue. As Thomas Jefferson explained in his first inaugural, we are all Federalists, we are all Republicans when it comes to the rule of law and the Constitution’s sacred architecture. The Founding Fathers built on a profound understanding of human nature and the propensity of absolute power to deteriorate into absolute corruption and abuses. My convictions about the signature features of the United States that occasioned its blossoming from a tiny nation into a global superpower made my criticisms of Bush’s usurpations natural and spontaneous, even though I voted for him twice and praised many of his measures or appointments, e.g., Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justice Sam Alito. I do not think my actions especially praiseworthy, and pale in comparison to the many who have given that last full measure of devotion to preserve government of the people, by the people, and for the people. I would surmise that the majority readily succumb to partisanship over principle because they have never struggled with the lofty ideas and ideals of great philosophers and the Founding Fathers sufficiently to appreciate that the history of liberty is the history of procedural regularity and the rule of law….
And next, Fein’s impressions of the Bush Administration as perceiving its loyalties to building Republican party power, regardless of the long-term consequences to the Constitution, the rule of law, and the consequences of precedents that ripple outward:
I am worried about Bush abusing his own precedents along with worries over what his successors might do. At present, the scope of his surveillance or other spying abuses is unknown because they remain largely secret, which is why I have strenuously urged muscular congressional oversight. There may be abuses ongoing that will not be known until years later, just as the abuses discovered by the Church Committee, e.g., illegal mail opening, interceptions of international telegrams, and misuse of the NSA for non-intelligence purposes were not discovered until more than two decades after the fact. If another 9/11 abomination occurred, I think there would be a strong probability that Bush would brandish his precedents to vanquish the Fourth Amendment and to detain citizens based on religion or ethnicity. Everything in life is a matter of degree, and while FDR, Nixon, McCarthyism, and Clinton were occasionally lawless, Bush is systematically so. Thus he is the greater danger. The rule of law can survive a beating once every five or ten years; it cannot survive beatings every five or ten minutes.In retrospect, I think the Bush administration from the outset believed their loyalty was to their own power or the Republican Party, not to the Constitution or country. I think its intellectual universe is confined to distinctions pivoting on “wedge” issues or strategies calculated to win politically no matter what the cost to the rule of law or constitutional practice. It is temperamentally, intellectually, and morally incapable of statesmanship.
Nations that confront no serious external enemy to remind them of the reasons for their success are inclined to internal rot. That is one lesson from Gibbon’s Decline and Fall. After the Soviet Empire disintegrated in 1991, the Superpower status of the United States became unrivalled. We are no longer encouraged in any respect to think about how we became a Superpower and the citizen virtues that underlie great civilizations. Generally speaking, the questions and issues we have explored in these exchanges never make it on the radar screen of the overwhelming majority who neither understand nor care about the philosophical underpinnings of their freedom and prosperity. But these observations are made with a high degree of conjecture. If I knew the answer as to why moral invertebracy in the United States as reached its apogee, I would be a genius, which I am not….
This conjecture, based in a thorough grounding of philosophical and historical study, is what I have been missing from all of the commentary from Bush Administration apologists. And from any explanations given by attorneys who have worked with and for the Administration in drafting disastrous policies that haunt me, such as the Yoo torture memoranda and the Presidential signing statements justifications from Scooter Libby and David Addington, among many, many others.
And finally, Fein discusses the dangers of sitting back in silence and allowing such Constitutionally questionable behavior to continue unabated and unchallenged:
I have had interactions, but I have not in personal encounters assailed or deplored their silence. I do not believe that I was born God Almighty to serve as a moral prophet ala John Knox. A few have discerned legality in Bush’s illegalities with reason I think are preposterous. But most simply do not believe it their task as private citizens to act as Good Samaritans, especially since the Democrats are intellectually bankrupt.
My speaking out as occasioned a fair share of shrill or vituperative emails, but no face-to-face personal nastiness or ostracism. I do not feel I am encountering a McCarthy-like atmosphere. You never know what kind of business fails to arrive from controversial statements. Whatever price I have paid is ridiculously paltry in comparison to those Lincoln lionized in the Gettysburg Address.
Bush’s precedents are dangerous, and will lie around like loaded weapons readily unleashed by any incumbent in times of strife or conflict, e.g., a second edition of 9/11. Political science, however, remains in its infancy. To predict with exactness the ramifications of lawless precedents on the rule of law and liberties would be folly. For instance, FDR’s lawlessness in WW II, including the odious internments of Japanese Americans, the lawlessness of McCarthyism, the lawlessness of Jim Crow, the lawlessness of Nixon and Clinton’s lying under oath were all serious but have not shipwrecked our constitutional enterprise, at least not yet. But as Justice Brandeis amplified, all government lawlessness is dangerous because it teaches people by its example. We are more likely to lose democracy on the installment plan like the Roman Republic as chronicled by Gibbon than by a military-industrial coup. In addition, we should never be satisfied by simply avoiding being a police state, but as Washington lectured at the Constitutional Convention, we should strive to set a standard to which the wise and honest may repair….
Truly, an extraordinary exchange, and one that is worth reading from start to finish. Such public discourse is sorely needed in a time when invective has replaced well-considered, thoughtful debate over the consequences of our actions — not just for the current generation, but for generations to come.
Constantly questioning and testing the foundations of our decisions and the consequences thereof is how we see whether they are truly solid. Asking these difficult questions is the true definition of patriotism, and is what the early pamphleteers who became the Founding Fathers of this very nation did in the Federalist and Anti-Federalist writings as well as the works of Thomas Paine and Benjamn Franklin and others.
These patriots understood that liberty is not purchased so cheaply that she does not require that we work, every single day, to strive toward a better America. It is the citizen who raises his or her voice against tyranny of the majority, against the incursion of government on our individual rights as enumerated in the Constitution and the Bill of rights, against the disregard of the rule of law who is the true patriot.
Bruce Fein was never a philosophical favorite of mine — when he worked for the Reagan Administration, especially during his numerous appearances on Capitol Hill to promote this or that legal policy while working for the Ed Meese AG’s office — I would find myself almost shouting at the top of my lungs at the television watching the hearings. But this is America, and I would similarly fight at the top of my lungs for his right to speak out about that which I would give every fiber I have to fight against. That is what it means to be an American – to truly have the freedom to speak ones mind on issues of import, but to respect that others have the same right to do so as well.
It is in his dedication to the same core principles of legal scholarship and precedent and the rule of law that I find common ground with Mr. Fein. And I thank Andrew at None So Blind for taking the time to do this extraodinary interview. Please, go and read it in its entirety. And then take some time to talk about it with someone else — whether or not they agree with you — because the conversation is worth having, and we need to get it started for the sake of our nation, our Constitution, and the generations to come.
It is high time that men and women of good conscience and a sound grasp of history and consequences spoke up.
"A time comes when silence is betrayal." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
(This amazing photo was taken by James L. Amos. A friend of mine found it and sent it to me via e-mail, knowing that I would love it’s design and color, and the visual beauty of the panorama. Fantastic piece of artwork and a photographer with an amazing eye. Bravo!)




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Fitz!
“Missed it by that much!”
Thomas Jefferson!
Benjamin Franklin!
John Adams!
Thomas Paine!
Alexander Hamilton! (damn elitist)
James Madison!
Crispus Attucks!
Paul Revere!
Betsy Ross!
and
George Washington!
I was troubled by the precedents set by Clinton protecting his posterior, but these set by the Yellow Elephants are far more insidious. Great post Redd!
Hey *ilson: At least Hamilton was honest about his thirst for power, whereas Jefferson was truly devious. Not that I don’t think Jefferson’s actions make him a GREAT man.
I have not always agreed with Bruce Fein. And when he worked for Meese he would be sent tot he hill not to speak for himself, but to represent the official position of his agency.
I always thought he was a first rate intellect though.
I am for more interested to see the moral courage it takes to speak out as he does. Ans at some cost to himself and his own career.
As he said, he will never know what work he did not ger b/c he is percieved as disloyal to the cabal.
This is a man truly speaking truth to power. His side is in power and he is consciouly forgoing it’s benefits in order to speak the truth.
THAT is what participatory democracy requires of all of us.
Thank you so much Christy.
Fein says it beautifully, but where are the rest of the self-described “conservatives?” Where is Mr. Strict Constructionist himself, Judge Bork? Slurping wingnut welfare at the Hudson Institute with Irving.
moral invertebracy – heh-heh, good one.
Fein reads like an intelligent, moral fellow. I agree with and applaud his words but… he doesn’t want to be all holier-than-thou? It’s not up to him to point out the moral failings of his kindred spirits? And yet, the Democrats who are saying the same things he is are intellectually bankrupt?
Tangled.
Bravo, Christy — and as shocked as I am to feel this way — Bravissimo, Bruce Fein!
Systematicly lawless.
That about says it. They have an aversion to any kind of oversight – congressional, judicial, and especially international – matched with an obsession with secrecy, even where there is no need for it. There is an almost pathological refusal to engage in honest discussion and debate, combined with a passion for power, wherever it can be grabbed.
Bush, Cheney, & Co. have a fundamental desire to stand above: above the law, above the courts, above the Congress, above the international community, and above the people of this nation.
All Hail King George!
GGreenwald also linked to this interview commented there: I read the Fein interview, and I found it to be (sadly) typical of conservative discourse in several respects. One is the knee-jerk dismissal of all Democrats as “intellectually bankrupt”. Is he really saying that people like Krugman, Feingold, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore have no intellect?
Second, he repeatedly referers to Clinton’s lawlessness. Does he really think that lying about a blow job is on a par with secret prison, warrentless wiretaps on a massive scale, lying about the rationale for war???
Sorry, but Fein strikes me as a tarted up version of any other right-wing gasbag. He may be slightly more presentable, but when push comes to shove he resorts to baseless name calling in lieu of fact-based debate.
mommybrain 8, surely he’s thinking of the Clinton-Schumer-Ben Nelson style Dems, not the Feingold-Frank-Edwards-Lamont kind.
Like a lot of others whose lives spanned the cold war, I often wondered if I, or my child, would be able to live out our lives or would succumb to nuclear war. I find the threat of the Yoonitary Executive to be every bit as frightening.
As a counterpoint to Fein’s high-minded prose, I’d just ask for a simpler act: for each American to take stock of our country now and ask if this is what our founders wanted us to be, if this is what we want it to be.
The mysterious “History’s Actor” says: “We are an empire now…” and it’s my turn to scream back that we were never meant to be, and shouldn’t be, and if we are, then we need to get back to our principles. E pluribus unum is more than a slogan, it’s who we are.
Per Christy and then lhp,
Anyone who is interested, can show Mr. Fein our gratitude for his principled response at “info@feinandfein.com.”
off topic but…
Crack Is Found in Shuttle’s Foam Insulation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..r=homepage
More NYTimes conspiracies… why the hell are we sending crack into orbit? Is the NYTimes trying to kill us all? What if the Islamofacist find out?
truthout.org has a great interview with Hugo Chavez by Greg Palast. Chavez wanted to bring oil down to $50 a barrel but Bush nixed the idea. Gas would be $2.00 a gal. This was to help Saudi pals. Chavez is spending oil revenue money to build infrastructure, health care. and education…loans to farmers. And he is called a crack pot. Oh, that here in America, we could have a crack pot like him. Instead of somebody you want at your barbecue.
Sickening headline on Raw Story:
“Military records show doctors tortured detainees: Soon…”
al-Scooter sed:
“for each American to take stock of our country now and ask if this is what our founders wanted us to be, if this is what we want it to be.”
Bravo, al-Scooter.
THAT’S the national conversation we should have had but never did. Bush and his speechwriters had him saying things that were never true about his plans and philosophies (if you can stretch that word to cover what’s in his “mind”). It’s been a long time since we had a national conversation about ANYTHING. Now why is that, do you suppose, you lying, traitorous bag of pigsh*t librul?
“Sorry, but Fein strikes me as a tarted up version of any other right-wing gasbag.”
The Sioux and the Cheyenne fought together at the Little Big Horn to smash Custer.
We need all the help we can get.
As lhp pointed out, this guy isn’t making any friends or money by criticizing President ClusterBush. If you know of a conservative with his credentials who is more supportive, I think everyone would appreciate a link.
What a great post, Christy – as always.
It seems to me that when you task your employees to examine the constitutionality of a particular policy or action, you are almost guaranteed that those employees are going to come back to you with the answer you want; this has happened time and again in this administration, with memo after memo parsing the Constitution in rather creative, if not wrong-headed ways.
To be fair, I’m sure all administrations have done this to some degree or another, but it seems to me that this administration has avoided consultation with the legislative and judcial branches on a number of items, for fear of being shot down and/or forbidden to do what they want.
I’ve said for a long time that these people use the Constitution as a way to consolidate and hold power, and that is another reason they have avoided both Congress and the courts.
I think it was yesterday that I said that I thought there was something remarkably absent among the DC crowd in the discussion post-Supreme Court ruling: a reflection on whether changing the laws to allow the president to do things his way was really the right thing to do. I see where John Warner has advocated a “let’s take a deep breath and really lokk at this before we act” approach, and as chairman of the Armed Services Committee, he may be able to do just that.
The Bush administration seems not to care one whit about the mess it is leaving in its wake – as long as they see the path ahead clear to more and stronger power, it’s gonna be damn-the-torpedos, full-steam-ahead. It’s just gotta stop.
Where have we heard this before?
Mexican Presidential Rivals Both Claim Win in Tight Vote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00194.html
Is this the system for rigging elections, call them as close until the fever settles and then choose the looser, I swear I’ve seen this before somewhere?
Another fine Fein line:
Bush is committing “treason to the Founding Fathers,” by “insisting that ‘trust me’” should be the measure of our civil liberties.”
It is a fascinating discussion, if only an academic one at this point…
Never considering myself a ‘liberal’, and as quick to point out the problems with dems as well as repubs I do feel able to make some observations.
People may go into politics with some altruistic notion of federalism and representative democracy and constitutional protections but like the fabled ‘blue line’ of the police, once you are in the system the system takes you over.
The conservatives who helped elect bush have set up the decimation, the disintergration, and the disembowling of the union. Their WILLFUL ignorance of increased survelliance techniques, human caused capitalist-driven decay of our biosphere, the erosion of church/state seperation for cultural control, and their ACTIVE participation in the collapse of regulatory procedures of the govt. have led us to where we are.
And I am not going to even touch this perpetual war thing.
We are in a different American experiment now. Our work is clear, and it seems increasingly dangerous. Couple of pointers:::Don’t advocate violently overthrowing the govt. ::: Don’t advocate illegal things as you are being recorded:::Organize Organize Organize.
The (govt.) spies are listening and watching.
Welcome to the New America, brought to you by the conservative movement and the corporate Democrats: a multiplicity of thoughtcrimes under the all christian military.
Have a great 4th at WalMart.
EPU’d on the last thread. Just wanted to add some levity to everyone’s day by linking the clip of The daily Show’s Coot Off! between Byrd and Stevens
Mommybrain And yet, the Democrats who are saying the same things he is are intellectually bankrupt?
That’s not how I interpret his position. He is reporting that there *are* Republicans of conscience, who see the power shift, but don’t feel like handing the country over to Democrats who don’t even care to fight on this issue.
We also view a great many of the Democrats as intellectually bankrupt, n’est pas?
One of the precedents that is most worrisome is the way the Iraq war was set up, beginning with a chorus of public statements about the threat and obviously hollow diplomatic efforts, before the announcement that military action must be taken.
We are there again, and Hersh has a new article up: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/…..710fa_fact
It is his usual exhaustive and meticulous work. I tried to pick out a passage to quote here and gave it up, because it all seems important. We are going to war again, even though our military is mostly against it.
If this happens before the November election, there is no institutional way to stop it, since moral invertebracy truly reaches its apogee in the Congress. And if the Democrats can’t get a majority in one or both houses, there will be no stopping them after that, either.
Dear Apple Pie,
You have an excellent grasp of the situation. Self-proclaimed liberal or no, you are considered one now simply by virtue of not being One Of Them.
Mommybrain took the words right out of my mouth, apple pie. Good to hear from you.
I have a problem with Fein drawing a parallel between Clinton’s misdeeds and those of Nixon, Joe McCarthy and FDR’s interment of Japanese Americans during WWII.
In all the needless investigations during the Lewinsky scandal, no one came out the other side of the Lewinsky affair damaged to the point of having to resign in disgrace, not being able to be hired in their field of expertise or being interred in a domestic POW camp.
By making the point that Bush is completely political and not a statesman, he compares Clinton to Watergate and McCarthyism, when the Lewinsky affair was trumpeted from the rooftops for purely political reasons. Fein shows his political bias by trying to inflate fellatio into a Constitutional crisis, when it never rose to such a point to anyone except in the sex-addled mind of Ken Starr.
Fein makes some great points about Bush, but he needs more study in equivalencies.
GREAT post Christy …thanks
Excellent essay, Christy, and kudos for the extended quotes from Fein.
We often lament that the rest of the country cannot see the horrors we see. Yet when someone historically from the “other side” speaks up and says, “yes, I see it too, and it is wrong,” we should celebrate that important victory and embrace our ally. As the wise John Casper put it,
We need all the help we can get.
Last night I read the Declaration of Independence to the family at dinner. I made the point the the signers risked their very life by signing it. In fact John Handcock’s large signature is an in your face blatant act of defiance to George III. These guys were the “Net Roots” of the day. By god I am button bustin proud of em too.
It’s time we appreciate the history and sacrifice of those that put everything on the line for the very purpose of ensuring tyranny did not – could not happen in this country.
We all must act as best we may to make certain the “moral invertebracy” in the United States truly has reached its apogee.
BREAKING — Joe Lieberman has called a press conference for 1:00 pm ET. Jane is on her way to the presser. Will update when we know what is going on with this…
Inn ter rrrrest ing, Christy! You know our Jane’s loaded for, um, bear.
egregious – oh, most certainly oui. And I take you point.
Despite his concerns about the Bush Administration’s abuses of power, Fein admits he voted for Bush twice and supported Roberts and Alito, the latter of whom at least seems likely to gladly provide legal justification for the dictatorship Bush is trying to impose on this country. That’s like praising the Declaration of Independence but fighting on the side of the Redcoats.
SiI @ 26 -
There is already a sizeable body of propaganda re: Iran. Now would be a good time to look at that stuff and see where it was coming from.
OT…
Madsen is keeping track of the Traditional Media and Wingnut connections
———————————————–
Howard Kurtz, Washington Post Sheri Annis (wife) Pres. Fourth Estate Strategies, GOP campaign consultant, 2002 spokesperson for Arnold Schwarzenegger, media consultant for various anti-immigration California propositions, including Prop. 227, which eliminated various California bi-lingual education programs. Has written for the neo-con National Review.————-
Campbell Brown, NBC News Dan Senor (husband) Former Coalition Provisional Authority chief spokesman, contributor to Fox News, former intern for American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), senior associate of The Carlyle Group. director US-Israel Business Exchange (USIBEX),
Wendy Senor Singer (sister-in-law) Head of AIPAC office in Jerusalem.
Saul Singer (brother-in-law) Opinion editor of Jerusalem Post. ———————
Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute, Karl Rove adviser, formerly with The New Republic. Barbara Ledeen (wife) Staffer, Senate Republican Conference.
Simone Ledeen (daughter) Former Iraq Coalition Provisional Authrity adviser to occupation Iraqi Ministry of Finance for northern Iraqi affairs ——————
Brit Hume, Managing Editor, Fox News, Washington Kim Schiller Hume (wife) Fox News Washington Bureau Chief, Vice President Fox News. ———————————–
Carl Cameron, Fox News Pauline Cameron (wife) Campaigned for George W. Bush’s 2000 election.
John Ellis, Fox News George W. Bush (cousin) In charge of 2000 election projections for Fox News. ————————————
Tucker Carlson, MSNBC Richard Carlson (father) Vice Chairman of neo-con Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD), member Scooter Libby Legal Defense Fund Trust ————-
Danielle Pletka, American Enterprise Institute Stephen Rademaker (husband) Then-Assistant Secretary of State for Arms Control John Bolton’s deputy. —————————
Veronique Rodman, American Enterprise Institute Peter Rodman (husband) Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs. Former senior editor of National Review and signatory of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). Although PNAC recently closed its doors, its core members are connected to successor neo-con elements, including FDD and the Committee on the Present Danger. ———————-
Bob Schieffer, CBS News Tom Schieffer (brother) U.S. Ambassador to Japan, former U.S. Ambassador to Australia, G. W. Bush’s Manager of Texas Rangers. ———————
Anne Applebaum, Washington Post Radek Sikorski (husband) Defense Minister of Poland, former Fellow, American Enterprise Institute ———
Jim VandeHei, Washington Post Autumn Hanna (wife) Former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay. ——–
Andrea Mitchell, NBC News Alan Greenspan (husband ————
While I am in agreement with Fein on much of what he’s said about the nature of the Constitution and the systematic lawlessness of this administration, I am put out by his overbroad brush stroke painting all Democrats as intellectually bankrupt. Surely he can see that Republicans have been not only criminal, but equally bankrupt of intellect (i.e., Frist and Stevens).
And it certainly is up to him as well as every American to be that voice in the desert when its elected leaders fail them. It is the very nature of democracy, self-representation with overturn and replacement of a corrupt government when need dictates. Fein, with his knowledge of the Constitution and the history that underpins it, must surely be able to recite this from memory:
morally bankrupt not to recognize one’s obligation to protect these rights and defend this democracy, denigrating others while failing to live by one’s ethics. There are no exceptions across political parties when it comes to this kind of bankruptcy.
Wow Christy!
FDL scoop.
I found nothing at google, nothing on the AP, nothing on Joe’s Senate web site.
John at 40 — Just got it straight from Jane over the phone. I think it just got announced, and the Lieberman camp is being VERY tight lipped about what this is. Jane said she’d let us all know as soon as she knows what is up…
I’m afraid I’m with ESaund on this one. I can recognize that Fein is probably paying a price amongst his people, but I can’t help but read a serious strain of moral cowardice and confusion here. Note that he acknowledges voting for Bush twice. Are we to believe that he was not able to discern the fundamental lawlessness of the Bush administration until after 2004? What was it that finally threw him over against them? In what way was their character not obvious prior to 2004 and what could possibly have made him still cast a vote for Bush rather than Kerry? What flaw could Kerry have possessed that would make Fein stick with the lawless Bush? No, it looks like cowardice to me.
I can recognize the crime of perjury as a serious strike against the system of law, but is Clinton’s lie about private, consensual sex in a civil suit really to be placed on a par with FDR’s lawless incarceration of 120,000 people, the swath of destruction of the McCarthy witch-hunts, and the domestic spying (not to mention the illegal bombings) of Nixon? Anyone who thinks that is seriously confused.
I can appreciate that he is speaking out now, but, honestly, this is too little too late. I have no stake in protecting Clinton’s reputation, but Fein’s need to include Clinton should remind us that he is still infected by the pathology that led the Republicans of the 1990s to hijack the legal system to try to overthrow a twice-elected president. That’s where the real lawlessness resided and if Fein can’t see that then he can’t yet discern the spring that feeds the Bush administration’s particular brand.
I’ll quietly accept his temporary support, but don’t ask me to either respect him, rely on him or trust him to build an honest Republican party.
Ick. Typing challenged this early afternoon. Should have been “It is morally bankrupt” leading into that last paragraph.
Waiting on pins and needles to hear from Jane about the presser…
Sonoma Rus — great idea to read the full Declaration of Independence to the kids. Bravo.
We’ve all read, perhaps can recite from memory, some of the opening lines/phrases of the Declaration, but few spend time to read the entire document. It’s so relevant to today.
After moving to Boston area a few years ago, I went down to Faneuil Hall where every 4th of July they read the entire document from the balcony. It is quite stirring.
If you’re anywhere near Boston, come hear it. It’s remarkable how the list of the offenses of King George sounds so familiar. It could start a revolution.
If Fein is a right wing gasbag – what does that make Schumer, the Nelsons, Harman, etc.?
*g*
On lots of tough issues, there are different analysis that lead you to be more in one camp or another. But there should be, always, an open discussion about the issues and the pros and cons — never will one side of an issue have ALL pros, or all cons.
That means that people who engage in the dialog – rather than the talking point screams – deserve respect (IMO) even when I don’t agree with them. Clinton did make mistakes. Some big, some small, some only “mistakes” depending on your perspective. If you hide from that – you drop from dialog to talking points as well.
I also think that the leadership of the Democratic party has been bankrupt in many areas throughout the Bush administration – bankrupt intellectually, morally, strategically and bereft of courage and conviction.
Sadly, with all that – they absolutely SHINE by comparison to the Republican party and its rabid totalitarianism, corporatism and power hungry self-interest that positions the nation on the brink of crisis after crisis as gamesmanship in the name of self-perpetuation of public office. A party that has paranoically promoted incompetent loyalty over competent dissent. A party that has ritualized and celebrated the loss of veracity as a pagan offering to the gods of war and rage. A party that worries, not about failing our military and requesting from them, with no valid reason, that they commit war crimes — but rather worries that someone might mention such a thing out loud.
Fein engages on the issues and with depth – I can’t think of what more you want from someone with whom you disagree.
Christy, did Jane say where it’s to happen? Campaign HQ? Home? Other?
When people like Fein say stuff like this, it makes me think that the conservative intelligensia know they’ve created a monster.
Bush cannot govern based on congressional law, hence all the signing statements.
Bush cannot govern with journalists asking questions, hence the calls of treason.
Bush cannot govern with the Supreme Court telling him what he can and cannot do, hence the disregard of the Constitution.
And Bush cannot govern if people disagree with him, hence the secret data-mining.
I’ve heard New Zealand is nice this time of year…
Would it be unethical to start chanting “Jump Joe, jump”?
Lieberman calls press conference for 1 pm today
by: Scarce
July 03, 2006 at 11:50:17 EST
On the Capitol steps in Hartford.
http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/frontPage.do
I am with #36- how could Fein have voted for Bush twice!!??
I can understand voting for him in 2000- but 2004! After the invasion of Iraq, after Abu Ghraib, after 4 years of the same rubber stamp Congress we have now. Exactly what has changed from 11/04 to suddenly make him wake up and think, “Jez I think maybe this administration doesn’t respect the Constitution?”
I really just don’t get it.
Well, I go along with the skeptics. It is good that Fein is speaking out but it has only taken him 5 1/2 years. He voted for the “lawless” Bush twice and agreed with the selection of those two great supporters of the unitary executive Roberts and Alito. His plan to put the fire out has so far consisted in pouring gasoline on it. He is concerned about future Presidents. Would that be because some of them will be Democrats?
All in all, this strikes me in the mold of recanting neocons like Francis Fukuyama. Having supported everything that got us into Iraq, they now say that it was a bad idea. How perceptive! Yes, we should appreciate Fein’s “conversion” but take it with a few blocks of salt.
Yeah, it’s kinda hard to square Fein’s support of BushCo as late as 2004, along with Sammy “signing statements” Alito and John Roberts, with the comments cited above.
That said, this proud member of the 101st Rabid Lamb Corps does not demand intellectual purity in opposition to the Cheney administration. So credit where due, and thank you for the support, Professor Fein.
And Christy, you really put this sort of stuff in just the right perspective. Thanks for another excellent post.
Yep #51 totally.
It is like they know that Bush is going to go down in history as a total disaster. To make up for the fact that for over 5 years they have enabled him they give interviews seperating themselves from him. Then they can tell people- “see I wasn’t really on his side.”
JWR – I think as long as we chant softly . . .
We need *ilson to do his li’l-bitty font on “Jump, Joe, Jump.”
Is Joe going to announce his run as a
Republicanindependent?Jane might be the only one covering it who is over 21. If he were planning such a move, he might want to do it when a lot of the professional media were smack dab in the middle of a four-day holiday.
WAG Alert (Wild Ass Guess)
The bookies are giving 7 to 2 odds in favor of Joe going indy. [I just made that up, but I’d take that action]
Not sure what to make of this Raw Story item — it’s a lot skimpier than usual:
Video: Military record show doctors tortured detainees
He makes some nice points, which any one can easily find in any number places on blogs, books, etc., but he sort of covers the whole thing with a thick, sticky sauce of pompous deceptiveness: Clinton’s blow-job is hardly on the same order of things as Nixon’s power manipulations and hardly in any way comparable to what is going on today. Give me a break. And to say the Democrats are intellectually bankrupt without any explanation is a cheap partisan put-down. True, they’re not especially inspiring but then it is not as if the Republicans are a flourishing, thriving source of inexhaustible ratiocination. All the lawyers in the world are not going to get us out of this mess. Maybe they in fact got us into it. The U.S. is overrun by lawyers like no other country. Yes, I dare to say it on this site. The only concern is how do we get out of this mess. I have no answers. However, I know that more litigation will not help: the perpetrators can only be called to account if a wholesale change in the mind-set of the country takes place. Even someone like Patrick Fitzgerald has to move so slowly that it would take eternity to get to the bottom of all the shit. Fein’s statement lthat he doesn’t know how we got where we are is just one more piece of fancy wording a la Kissinger to make a feigned bow to humility. This man definitely has more to tell than he is letting on.
BTW – I’m just now reading the Stevens thread and I am a total moron about the internet. So help me here.
Because of Netflix, Stevens isn’t getting emails from his staffers until after a days delay?
Isn’t it all that NSA activity on the lines that’s causing Ted’s emails to be delayed? ;-)
Joe is going to declare that he is unilaterally partitioning CT to make a new 51st state, of which he will be emperorer-in-chief.
E&P: Shreveport Paper Considers Dropping Coulter
Fein has nailed the core problem. Constitutional government of the kind we grew up with and are presently in danger of losing stands on two legs. The first is a public that understands what is at stake — this basically means the press, since the ordinary person hardly has the leisure to learn, nor since the 1960s the exposure to, the principles that underly the rule of law. The second are politicians who understand its importance. Bush is sui generis in that he has a sub-mediocre mind, had no previous experience in public office (being governor of Texas hardly counts), and views lawyers as people who can find him a way to do what he wants to do. In many respects, he represents the perfect storm for a Republic gone soft.
I have to agree with Fein that we are not in a McCarthy environment. The Swift-Boat smears are nothing compared to the Loyalty Oaths we all had to take to get Federal scholarships and employment as teachers. The danger is more diffuse and in that more insidious than McCarthy, who effectively a one-man show who in the end was not ruthless enough to carry out what he started.
The precedents established by our mediocre president and his exceptionally mediocre AG are going to be with us for a long time. It would help if the true conservatives on the Court would stand up and be counted.
OT
I’m sorry, I just saw this posted somewhere… I apologize in advance…
http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar/
lotus at 62, that’s a good shot of the adam’s apple (NTTAWWT)
NTTAWWT, op99?
Mary, it seems that Ted was confused about what his staffers told him about video on demand and Netflix. Its easy to imagine the staffers finally giving up (’what’s the point?’) and saying “Thats right slugger. Now get out there and give ‘em hell.”
I’ve seen that “Gay Bar” thing before. There’s a funnier one somewhere with Bush and Blair.
FYI, we made a flyer with quotes from our founding fathers (and mothers). Here are a few of them…
George Washington
If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
Thomas Jefferson
War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
James Madison
The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.
Benjamin Franklin
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Click here to get your own printable flyer.
http://july4.bmgbiz.net/
If you don’t have a color printer, it still works pretty well in black and white. Feel free to share it at any Independence Day festivities you attend this weekend.
lotus, “not that there’s anything wrong with that.”
Meanwhile . . .
Britons tire of cruel, vulgar US: poll
We rest our case.
new thread! —- Jump, Joe! Jump!
(lotus sez Duh)
’s ok lotus, I made up the abbreviation myself, since I use it so much.
I am not so much concerned with dissecting the reasons behind Fein’s statements, as much as I am with the content of them.
While I agree that it is always good to hear someone from the “other” side take a position that runs counter to the other party’s prevailing actions, we risk losing the message of what Fein is saying by picking apart his reasons for saying it.
Is he 100% right? Probably not. And his politics are showing in some of his “this equals that” remarks, but his assessment that this administation is using the Constitution to consolidate and strengthen power is dead on.
That’s the part that struck a chord with me – that someone whose political allegiance is to the other side, who still has the ability to see where this administration is ruining it for the rest of us now, and possibly for generations to come.
It seems pretty obvious to me that we will take the White House back in the next election. So the question that poses itself is how will we handle all this new executive power? and how will conservatives react.
Most people on the left won’t care, but we should.
I’m reminded how Bill Clinton actually started the NSA problem when he had pass the “Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act” which forced Telecoms to rewire so law enforcement could more easily monitor criminal communications. People on the left screamed that the Clinton Administration was the most wiretap friendly in this nations history and even Janet Reno marveled at how much power this created. I don’t believe for a second Bill Clinton intended for it to end up as it has, but that is what happens when you play the executive power game. I would certainly hate to see the U.S. end up like the U.K. with cameras everywhere in downtown London and cameras on every major road to track you. But maybe we are already there.
The next chief we select had better be prepared to answer some tough constitutional questions or they won’t have my vote.
Mary, not sure if this is helpful or accurate, but it is my understanding.
Right now, destinations drive delivery of the individual “packets.” Net neutrality means in effect that the user’s (destination address) decides what gets delivered by clicking on a link. Breaking net neutrality means “selling” the delivery of the packets to the “source address,” the sender’s address. Theoretically this means FDL would have to pay to deliver their content to us. Our “vote,” clicking on a link, doesn’t count as much in the algorithms that determine the order in which the packets are delivered.
See “Policy-based routing”
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Packet switching
Andy Schmookler! Geeze, what a small world. Haven’t corresponded with him in years. Christy, Andy lives in your neighborhood, and if you don’t already know him, please get in touch with him. He has written several significant books, and has a mind like a steel trap. Sometimes subtle and sometimes a little oblique, but always penetrating and very very smart.
Some years ago I was in a equipment rental place and they had this big board on the wall behind the desk with the title: Deposit? What could I possibly do to it? It was filled with photos of bent,folded,mutilated and spindled rental returns. A take off of Murphy’s Law came to me and has been a kind of mantra for me ever since. If somehting can be abused, it will be. To me it seems like a basic truth and of course at the top of the list is power and privilege. It is why the founding father put in place the checks and balances of our constitution.
As far as the Republican pursuit of power, they remind me of the prehistoric squirrel in the movie Ice Age. A single minded pursuit of their “nut” while catastrophe follows on their heels.
brainfaht #75, I appreciate your optimism, but I don’t see any reason for it. Yes, Bush’s numbers are in the toilet.
But Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are hell-bent on nuking Iran, they’ve thumbed their nose at the Constitution, and have told Congress to take a hike. What’s to stop them? Elections? Pffft. Those are easy.
I’m worried about martial law.
Merciless at 79,
Well it could really happen. When I was in the army I was assigned to a facility that played war in the future and had a hand in developing new weapons. One of the war scenarios was a world war that would erupt from the middle east.
I’m afraid how I would react to a martial law.
merciless, I think it won’t be quite so blatant as martial law. Harder to fight when it’s sneaky.
If you read the Fein interview, his disappointment with the Bush comes through but his reasoning is all over the place. He doesn’t argue high sounding themes with his Washington colleagues; he warns them that the unchecked power they are creating could be used by Hillary.
He rationalizes that conservatives have not been more vocal in their criticisms of Bush’s power grabs because they are afraid of losing their access, and hence their paychecks. Democrats are, nevertheless, the bankrupt ones.
He dodges the question of Roberta and Alito and says that he is suspending judgment on them until the Hamdan decision, ignoring the fact that Roberts had recused himself because he had supported the government’s position when the case was heard in a lower court. As for Alito who has shown even greater deference to the executive, did Fein really expect him to do anything other than wholly back the Administration as he then did? To top it off, he tries to diminish Hamdan’s importance.
And Kerry? Fein says that he would not have voted for Bush, or Kerry, but would have done a write in. When given the hypothetical that his was the deciding vote, only then does Fein say he would vote for Kerry.
Question: to reclaim our government, do we need conservative christian support?
I think yes. To successfully topple a tyrant, they must be rejected by their base. Can we sway the Kool Aide demographic? Of course not. Can we poach some moderates? You betcha…
I know this makes some people cringe, but after you say it a couple of times, it doesn’t feel so icky.
Repeat after me: Jesus was a liberal.
Supporting argument: he said all people were equal, slaves, lepers, whores and beggars. Very dangerous stuff in Pontious’ plot of the Roman Empire. And the way Christ died is the proverbial nail (ooh, a crucifixion pun): the form of execution for religous heresy was stoning. Political sedition earned death on the cross. Christ died because he was a liberal.
Repeat after me: Jesus was a liberal.
Hugh @ 83, I couldn’t agree more.
I, too, read the interview and was really underwhelmed by Fein. It was obvious that the really engaging mind in the dialogue was Andy Schmookler’s. I really respect Andy, and find he has both a first-rate mind, but is also way, way ahead of most in his understanding of dynamics, events, and ideas.
Fein is just trying to have it both ways. He says the Democrats are intelletcually bankrupt, but doesn’t posit evidence of it. He rues Republian abuse of power by the BushCo Administration, but seems content to let the Republicans control government, so long as they have “oversight.” Please.
I also find his praise for Roberts and Alito puzzling, inasmuch as they advocate a jurisprudence that neatly supports the BushCo power grab. And, has been rightly pointed out, Roberts was one of the legal facilitators of the Florida power grab in 2000.
Fein is basically a Federalist Society guy who doesn’t want the Democrats to have the same kind of power that Bush has taken for the presidency. His admiration for Socrates, Burke, et al. notwithstanding, he needs to at least be honest about the fact that his own party is responsible for the moral invertebracy he deplores.
rizbiz @84, no, Jesus was not a liberal. He was a radical to the core, a mystical revolutionary and, if anything, a primitive communist. Remember that he said to his followers to get rid of all their possessions, hold them in common, and follow him? Still, Jesus’ mission was beyond the political. His followers, especially Paul, instututionalized and politicized the message.
Hello jurismark @ 86
My point is: to purge, exorcize if you will, the demonic association that liberalism has acquired over the past 20 years, we need to redefine what liberalism is.
Yes, Jesus was a radical. But he was also a master communicator who picked his words carefully for maximum effect. I’m just doin’ WWJD..
rizbiz @87, Hi!
My point, stated a bit inelegantly, was that Jesus was really not about politics, whether liberal, conservative, or radical. I’m with you in deploring the misuse of Jesus’ teachings by conservatives to further their authoritarian agenda. It’s divisive and ruinous.
Jesus spoke in parables to attempt to ensure that the teachings would be understood and of sustenance to spiritually inclined people who have an appreciation for the allegorical and metaphorical, which is the real “language” of spirituality, unlike the literalism of established religion, which soon becomes corrupted and a tool for reactionaries. Unfortunately, that’s what the modern American conservatived do. They really don’t get it.
Hey, if we’re all bringing up our favorite Founders, then forgive me for a little blog-pimping when I point you to a post I wrote at the Daily Kos and my personal blog.
ODE TO THE FOURTH OF JULY
or
http://apoeticjustice.blogspot…..tward.html
THRUSTING AMERICA’S LOVE OUTWARD!
I too was not a fan of Bruce Fein (couldn’t stand the sound of his voice during Clinton/Lewinsky) but I’m glad that he is speaking out about how dangerous Bush is to our country. Another person that I loathed during Clinton/Lewinsky was Bob Barr. Yet, Bob Barr has spoken out a number of times about the civil liberties violations of this administration. One memorable occasion was at a right wing convention where he received a very cool reception.
There are also some Libertarian voices on the Cato Institute website who have been challenging this administration with some very good pieces.
Isn’t it a pity that the MSM excludes these voices from their Sunday morning “political” discussion. I guess they just don’t fit the MSM profile for those on the right. Heaven forbid that we might actually see a little grey mixed in with the usual black & white storyline each Sunday.
One of the many reasons that I love to read here is the level of intelligent discussion.
Thank you so very much for the link to the “nonesoblind” site. You have introduced me to a new author and intellect who is so very, very stimulating. I am thrilled at the level of discussion and the quality of writing I found there. I have looked for and will read the author’s books which promise to be further stimulating.
Thanks for the link and keep up the great work on your site.