Fitz!

Rootz!

Unsurprisingly, Mitch the Bitch threw his endorsement to Lieberman, contrasting Joe’s support of Bush with the purported cut-’n’-run position of the Democratic Party. (That should make a good campaign commercial … for Lamont.)

Hannity…O’Reilly…Coulter…now Mitch the Bitch. Lieberman’s doing mass mailings in Connecticut, telling everyone Lamont is a Republican. If Ned’s a Republican, what does that make Holy Joe?

Thanks, Roger.

Andrea Mitchell ably filled the vacancy that is Tim. — wicked snark!

“Andrea Mitchell ably filled the vacancy that is Tim.”

ROTFLMAO!!!

Where’s Valley Girl? I believe I have the ultimate in academic excuses: termites ate my dissertation! No kidding, it’s true! Was in a box in the storage center, termites came up through a crack in the floor and commenced to eating things … including a copy of my dissertation. And the other copy was on a shelf – the lower shelf – in my office, which took 5 feet of water in Katrina. Hah! Top that!

“balanced out by two Republican reporters (Cokie Roberts and Joe Klein).”

very nice!

Airport Cat 7
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-168988

Admirable summary.

I was worried based on the title that I would have to read about some assrocket antics. Thankfully spared.

AiportCat, bad news, check out punaise at 11:21 and below in last night’s FDL Late Night

That Lieberman sure is racking up an impressive list of Republican and fanatical right-wing endorsements, isn’t he? It’s almost like he’s a Republican, too…

I thought Klein on “This Week” made some very valid points. Caling him a “Republican reporter” is way off mark as he did not spew any of the Rovian talking points.

Completely agree with *ilson and Cozumel above.

Jack Reed (D-RI).

Pete at 8:00, do you have a link?
JokeLine does not enjoy much support at FDL. If you have a link to the transcript and you want to point out something positive he said, I am always willing to learn.

Peter 14 — what would you call him based on every other time he’s ever pushed his face in front of a camera?

Teddy, do you have any contacts with DiFi’s SF office? Have a AZ friend who nees to deal with a CA univeristy issue.

i did see somewhere else today somebody say some kind words about Joe Kline being uncharacteristicly liberalish …

*ilson – 20: yes, he did surprise his audience today.

I missed the thread about Valley Girl’s decision, but read it earlier tonight, and am feeling very concerned about it. I am very sorry that she was not able to stay with us and allow us to support her. I think if she wished to stop moderating and exposing herself to the trolls, someone else could have either volunteered or been recruited to help Jane and Christy. My sense of what happened is that it was less about the community and more about the assault to her excellent and deeply human nature by the moderating experience, ? particularly during Christy’s “Sorrow” thread which felt so spiritual and family centered to those of us who did not have to see the ugliness she did. I feel overprotected sometimes here, gratefully so, and wish I could somehow have helped her share that burden as I could feel her sorrow in sharing it afterward.

Valley Girl has been a huge and very important part of my experience here at FDL and I know she has been for many others, including Jane and Christy. I was so sure she was planning on going to Yearly Kos, I know I told a number of people I was trying to figure out where she was. There is something very special about a person with as well developed and deeply felt a sense of justice as our Valley Girl. I will be holding out hope that she will come home soon after a well deserved rest.

Sorry to briefly hijack a great thread, but I really wanted to bring my thoughts to the community FWIW.

Lieberman was also endorsed by Malkin.

On June 29, 2006, the House of Representatives passed H. Res. 895 (227-183 with 17 Dems voting for) condemning the publication of information about the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/index.asp

The Resolution contains 25 whereases describing this publication. 17 of these mention efforts of the US to follow the financing of terrorism, such as:

“Whereas following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the President, with the support of Congress, directed the Federal Government to use all appropriate measures to identify, track, and pursue not only those persons who commit terrorist acts here and abroad, but also those who provide financial or other support for terrorist activity.”

Most also mention the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program where it is described in detail and some of its successes related.

The Resolution resolves:

(1) supports efforts to identify, track, and pursue suspected foreign terrorists and their financial supporters by tracking terrorist money flows and uncovering terrorist networks here and abroad, including through the use of the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program;
[but don’t tell the terrorists about this. They may not have heard that this has been our stated policy since shortly after 9/11]

(2) finds that the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program has been conducted in accordance with all applicable laws, regulations, and Executive Orders, that appropriate safeguards and reviews have been instituted to protect individual civil liberties, and that Congress has been appropriately informed and consulted for the duration of the Program and will continue its oversight of the Program [although per Diane Feinstein they weren’t told until it was clear the NYT article was coming out:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/.....n-briefed/

]

(3) condemns the unauthorized disclosure of classified information by those persons responsible and expresses concern that the disclosure may endanger the lives of American citizens, including members of the Armed Forces, as well as individuals and organizations that support United States efforts [Is it just me or is this some kind of smear to cover for the damage done by the Plame outing?]; and

(4) expects the cooperation of all news media organizations in protecting the lives of Americans and the capability of the government to identify, disrupt, and capture terrorists by not disclosing classified intelligence programs such as the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program [which the House just disclosed again in case you were a terrorist and not paying attention].

Roger, your posts make me laugh so much, and I thank you. So world-weary and so funny…sort of a jaded ex-pat air to them.

If Joe Klein did well on This Week it was the first time in a very long time, and I don’t expect it to last. Does he feel threatened by the NYT thing, perhaps? Why? He doesn’t report much and certainly he doesn’t touch anything that threatens Repubs or DINO’s.

Nope, sorry, see old threads and Jokeline contest. Sorry, too sleepy to find a link.

A wee bit OT (Pardon me Roger):

The Post Turtle

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher, whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.

Eventually the topic got around to former Texas Governor George W.Bush and his elevation to the White House. The old Texan said, “Well, ya know, Bush is a ‘post turtle.’ ” Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a “post turtle” was.

The old rancher said, “When you’re driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that’s a post turtle.”

The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor’s face, so he continued to explain. “You know he didn’t get there by himself, he doesn’t belong there, he doesn’t know what to do while he’s up there, and you just want to help the dumb shit get down.”

Barrow
Bean
Boren
Boswell
Cuellar
DeFazio
Edwards
Gordon
Higgins
Marshall
Matheson
Melancon
Peterson-MN
Ross
Salazar
Skelton
Taylor=MS

Dems voting Yea re: Hugh’s #24
Awful

katymine – email me at teddy 94110 at netscape dot net

I searched for a written transcript of “This Week” and could not find one.

Jane Hamsher – I would expect that a report about today’s show would be based on the actual content of that show rather than a summary of the past shows.

Roger

Thanks again for your summary of the talking heads. I look forward to them every Sunday evening.

Roger, thanks for these posts about the Heads.

You haven’t quite conveyed the awfulness of Mrs. Greenspan, I don’t think. Her attacks on Dana Priest (and even Bill Safire, for crimeny’s sake!) were shameful for someone who is — gasp! — a member of the media. And her confusion about how newspapers work was wretched: “I don’t want to put you on the spot, John Harwood, but I will….”

Does she just think that whoever shows up on Timmy’s gabfest who works for whatever dead-tree dinosaur is there to defend not only the opinion pages but also the editorial choices made? Of course, Harwood was rather in a pickle, given the war the WSJ opinion side has declared on the NYT.

We need more Dana Priests! I thought she might also point out — to Mrs. Greenspan — that SOME people think cosmetic surgery should be illegal, but it isn’t.

Why doesn’t Chris Wallace just come out and accuse Nancy Pelosi of BEING a terrorist? You know he wants to.

Again, Roger, with regard to Wallace and Little Greek Georgie, thanks for watching so I don’t have to!

Well I liked “the Hindenburg of the sabbath gasbags”. The NYT is supposed to have an article or editorial tomorrow on Bush and McCain cozying up to each other. Is McCain going to turn the complete whore and renounce his stand on torture?

Teddy, you’ve got mail

Hmm. I’ve been following this site since before September last year…and I honestly cannot think of a time when anybody found Joe Klein’s overall record defensible.

Did we not have a contest digging through all of Joe Klein’s work history only to find what is a fairly reprehensible collection of efforts from a person labeled as a liberal, Democrat or lefty?

Hmm. My pattern recognition alert is going off.

Does anyone really think that Hindenburg’s chair made that sound? He strikes me as the kind of person who, when cornered like he was by Dana Priest, will use flatulence as a weapon. Kind of like some badgers with stink-glands.

looseheadprop – you there? email me, thks!

whoops…lhp, that’s rayne_today AT yahoo.com

Pete- I tried to find a link to the list of outrageous comments folks in this community collected from the annals of Joe Klein, but it’s somewhere in the old site where I can’t find it. I appreciate your concern for fairness to Mr. Klein, but I’m afraid it’s Joe who needs to be concerned about fairness to progressives, Democrats (real ones) and the blogosphere. Jane is probably out walking her dogs and doesn’t need for me to defend this post, but as was mentioned before, we have had many discussions about Joe Klein prior to this post and IMO, he more than deserves this relatively mild snark.

Well, lacking a transcript, perhaps you’d like to paraphrase the non-Rovian points made, Pete. We’re not terribly open-minded here on the subject of JK, but we are willing to learn. Calling Klein a Republican is based on his body of “work” and doesn’t require regular calibration.

Or maybe you’d best come armed with a transcript.

Pete 30 I would expect that a report about today’s show would be based on the actual content of that show rather than a summary of the past shows.

Lindsey Graham didn’t just turn into a Republican today. Neither did Joe Klein. Both have made careers of it.

Hey, you guys, get a room with all your psst, email me, psst you’ve got mail, psst.

Since it’s just me and Pete against the political machine here, I’ll put my tired self to bed.

OMG, it’s midnight!!!

Sweet Dreams.

psst. send me an email. ;-

“What can the Democrats do? They can play politics or be responsible. The political option is to embrace “cut and run”; call for an immediate withdrawal, as Kerry did; and hope the public is so sick of Bush and sick of the war that it will punish the g.o.p. in the fall. But embracing defeat is a risky political strategy, especially for a party not known for its warrior ethic. In fact, the responsible path is the Democrats’ only politically plausible choice: they will have to give yet another new Iraqi government one last shot to succeed.”
Pete, this is from JokeLine’s 2 July 2006 article in TIME.
Pete, have you ever heard of the Powell Doctrine for the use of force?
Have you ever heard of “nation building?” Reagan and a lot of Republicans, like Newt, used to be very much against it.
Pete, Saddam would not allow Osama and his followers in Iraq. Now, they use it as a training ground. Every day we stay weakens our military, increases our deficits, and makes Russia and Iran even more dominant in the region than they aleady are. Pro-Democracy forces in the Middle East were much stronger BEFORE we occupied Afghanistan and Iraq.
The “floor” is not civil war in Iraq, the “floor” is civil war throughout the region, a drop in oil exports causing a world-wide depression. Read about the Johnson County War, 1892, the Lincoln County War 1877, and the Arizona War 1881, if you want to get a feel for the what is going on in Iraq right now with twenty-first century weapons.
There are no military objectives in Iraq. Bush wants our troops there, because he does not want to admit he made a succession of incredibly stupid mistakes that all the regional experts warned him about.

Pete,

The description of Klein as a Republican was obviously based on the totality of Klein’s record, not what he happened to say on this particular show. If, as you say, Klein sounded somewhat like a Democrat today, great, but he remains a Republican. One’s party affiliation does not fluctuate from one day to the next based on what one happens to have said most recently. This is especially something to keep in mind when dealing with an insincere opportunist like Klein, who, although in fact a Republican, sells himself as a Democrat so that he can do greater damage to the Democratic party by giving the press and the Republican party a tactical way to invite pseudodemocrats onto shows like Meet the Press and publications like time to give the false impression of balance.

By serving as the representative “Democrat” while in actuality being anything but, Klein functions as a walking, breathing straw man, mischaracterizing the positions of the Democratic party while claiming to be a Democrat.

Thanks for weighing in, Peter, I hope this helped to clear things up for you a bit.

THIS DOESN’T SOUND GOOD:

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2406.htm

The Voice of the White House

Washington, D.C. June 29, 2006: “There has been some weird funny business over at the Treasury department. There seems to be some kind of a fear that there might be an outbreak of an unspecified “deadly disease” in the United States,

The U.S. Mint, Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the Federal Reserve are busily engaged in producing a record number of banknotes and coins so that, “we can ensure that banknote and coin inventories would be adequate if financial institutions need extra supplies.”

The rumor is that this is supposed to be in anticipation of “bird flu” but a contact tells me that this is a cover for something much bigger. We know that Congress has appropriated over $6 billion to prepare for a “flu epidemic” but no one I know believes that this will happen and there is no proof that the flu has moved from birds to people in any significant numbers.

Anyone who looks at the CDC and WHO websites can verify what I am saying and yet there is considerable concern over something in the health field. There also has been some heavy duty activity over in Maryland where Cheney lives, according to a loose-lipped Secret Service fellow but other than that, there is nothing concrete. I will dig into this story and see if there is anything there, other than some scare crap designed to get out a frightened vote for the Protectors of the Republican Faith come November.”

Well said xyz.

You know, fascism in America would have such a happier face if BushCo would just listen to Lindsay Graham.

Nite, zenn sweet dreams….

John Casper #43

Like you I am a big supporter of the Powell Doctrine and I agree entirely with your statement that there are no military objectives in Iraq. It needs to be said more often.

I just want to back Pete up on Klein’s performance today. Credit where it’s due. Asshole that he’s been, Klein was actually worth listening to today.

Oh, and “the Hindenburg of the sabbath gasbags” is just perfect. I think he was set up, actually. This is a guy who is on the record wanting Priest to go to jail, and they sat him right next to her. I’ll bet folding money that she had that line loaded and cocked in advance, and the look on his face when she shot it off was priceless.

Yeah, Senate Dems need to ask, “Stay WHAT course?”

Hi everybody.

It’s gonna be another half an hour or so on Late Nite. I’m being a big, temperamental prima donna tonight. If you’ll excuse me, I have an ice bucket to throw at a hotel concierge’s head.

And a post to write. Eventually. As soon as I get off the phone with Courtney Love.

Slideguy 50 — I am happy to hear Klein was on good behavior, don’t get me wrong. There was ample room for improvement.

Oh, I bet Hindenburg was delighted to come on MTP knowing Dana Priest was gonna be there. And vice versa.

what Jane said

– sigh –

MTP makes me think of the Meat Puppets

John Casper and xyz and Pete:

In the Klein quote John provided, Klein uses the phrase “cut and run.” “Cut and run” is a Republican talking point, probably the most-used one during the week the Kerry motion was debated. Klein does not represent the Democrats when he says “cut and run.”

Also, he characterizes the Kerry motion as calling for “an immediate withdrawal.” I could be wrong, but I thought Kerry called for a phased withdrawal, and one that was conditional on certain things happening or not happening. Maybe somebody can help me out on this.

I don’t think “embracing defeat” reflects very fairly on the Democrats’ position, either.

In fairness, I will say I did not watch the program this morning. Maybe Klein is seeking to make amends. It would be nice if we had a transcript.

Roger- yours is a noble undertaking, thank you for your sacrifice. What a way to spend a Sunday!

TRex

When you get off the phone, why don’t you throw it at Russell Crowe?

TRex gonna go all Keith Moon on his hotel room?

Thanks, Roger. Punaise is right–what a way to spend a Sunday. That graphic could be synapses exploding.

hey, punaise, has Redshift been around? I’ve not been able to log on as much lately and just heard the news about VG–I do remember sympathizing with her during the consolation thread. This is the second time, since I’ve been reading FDL–and that’s fairly long–that a regular, valued reader/commenter left after a disturbance in the field.

Soothing to read such apt descriptions of the frauds and their parade of propaganda across the national television screen. Thanks Roger.

From the accounts I’ve read of today’s television interviews of Senators, I’d have to say that the Democratic Party (of the federal Congress, if not the states) is basically done for.

It is VITAL that people recognize that Chuck Schumer is speaking for Harry Reid in such high-profile appearances, as is Dianne Feinstein. If you don’t like what you are hearing from Schumer and Feinstein, then by definition you don’t like the leadership of Harry Reid. (Schumer specifically mentioned Reid’s name when he indicated the Party’s support for Lieberman.) If you don’t recognize that reality, you don’t understand what sort of party the Democrats will turn out to be next year should they gain a majority. Which is to say, they will be the exact same non-party we seem them as today. Period. I have no illusions left.

We’ve already forgotten Feingold’s performance just one week ago Sunday on Meet The Press. Compare that to Schumer’s performance this week. And consider: Harry Reid SUPPORTS SCHUMER, and OPPOSES FEINGOLD. And Harry Reid “leads” the Democrats in the Senate (without ever getting out front on any issue himself, or by way of a surrogate).

When good things are done by the Senate Democrats (Ron Wyden’s Net Neutrality hold, for example), in more cases than not they are occurring DESPITE Harry Reid. Some Democrats are acting with principle at last, nevertheless. But some isn’t enough. And the reason the ‘lack of Democratic unity’ theme is working and powerful for the Republicans is because it is true. It may be the only TRUE talking point they have available…

Harry Reid deliberately avoids using the most effective speakers in his caucus, and Schumer’s tone-deafness and outdated understanding of the American political scene are simply echoing those of Reid, who carefully stays behind the scenes as much as possible.

Truly the first battle the real Democrats in Congress have to win, is within their own caucus. And I’m afraid time has run out to both do that, and also tackle Karl Rove’s talking points, before November. The Republicans had their ‘uncivilized peoples and proud of it’ play called in from the sidelines today, right on schedule. Harry Reid’s response was missing in action. And Harry Reid will apparently never allow a Reid-led ATTACK to see the light of day. Don’t know why. Just know, now.

OT: Neva Chonin, SF Chronicle (”Live! Rude! Girl!”):

Being a woman… I have an understandable interest in women’s rights. The basic stuff, you know: equal pay for equal work, the right to toddle along the street unmolested, the power to govern my own body. All of these are still works in progress. You wouldn’t think they’d be, here in 21st century America. But then, you wouldn’t think 21st century America would have lobbyists trying to block a vaccine for cervical cancer. See, right-wing Christians claim vaccinating young women against a cancer-causing virus that’s transmitted sexually “could be potentially harmful because (girls) may see it as a license to engage in premarital sex.” Death before dishonor! Now there’s a new twist on the right to life.

…
“Choice feminism” is a hot topic on the internetz these days, with feministas of various stripes blogging and counter-blogging on whether “choice” is really all that, and whether all choices are created equal, and if “choice” is even what the women’s movement should be about….

I missed what happened to Valley Girl. Can someone please enlighten me? She left?

Punaise at 58:

Roger- yours is a noble undertaking, thank you for your sacrifice.

What Punaise said!

What Ailes Roger then doesn’t have to ail us! *g*

Do Tweety and Punkinhead know that the Vineyard is so pre-9/11? The kewl kids in the rising hegemon go to St. Michaels. I read it in the NYT Travel section….

(Kinda sad, really, that the Rumsfelds and Cheneys have “discovered” the place just before the NYT profiled St. Michaels. Real rich people’s places never get profiled. Kinda nouveau)

From Brownie’s Redux by Jane Hamsher:
“Michael Browne’s willingness to be honest about what happened during Hurricane Katrina and not be just another ass-coverer for the sins of BushCo. has facilitated one of the most amazing image rehabilitations in blogger history. Over at The Moderate Voice Joe Gandelman wrote an apology to him, and received this in his comments (Joe believes it is legitimate):

Dear Joe:

I have religiously avoided responding to any of the blogs, but feel compelled to respond to you. Apology accepted. And thank you, too, for the apology.

I have stated on numerous occasions the mistakes that I made and accepted responsibility for those mistakes. And, I hope now that the public, Congress, and especially the Administration, will heed the warnings I wrote to them in 2003, 2004 and 2005, that this kind of disaster was inevitable because of the way the Department of Homeland Security was functioning. I would be glad to provide you copies of those memos if you’re interested.

In January, 2005, I came to the conclusion that FEMA was doomed to failure. But rather than quit immediately (which my wife reminds me constantly was a huge mistake for our family) I commissioned an internal study (the “Mitre Report”) in order to leave a legacy of how FEMA could make things work that were broken – logistics, supply chains, communications. We were never able to finish that study because of a lack of funding and of course, impending disasters.

The Mitre Report is now in the hands of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, and I hope they make good use of its initial findings and recommendations.

Best regards,

Michael D. Brown

I’ll pick up that baton from Joe — Michael Brown was in over his head but contrary to what I snarked about at the time, the tapes show that he did appreciate the threat and he was trying to get the government to respond. They wouldn’t, and they deserve to absorb every bit of scorn that was heaped on Brown at the time for their failure to do so, so I would officially like to transfer my snark. It is to Brown’s credit that he’s being honest about it now and refusing to be the BushCo. goat. I offer my apologies and hope that others are encouraged to follow in his footsteps.”

Pete, if you can document that Jokeline is trying to be a journalist, write with his reader’s needs in mind, perhaps Jane will consider writing this kind of a column about him?

Dana 61 – I haven’t been online all day, so I couldn’t say re redshift.

Mommybrain – VG has taken leave of FDL – see last night’s Late Nite thread, starting at 11:21 p.m.

What punaise said — thank you, Roger, for watching the Sunday Morning Debacle so I can have a pleasant and quiet start to my day with my kids; they were spared another Sunday with mother throwing stuffed animals at the television while yelling adjectives.

tom-chicago — OT material, we should point out…anyhow, makes sense they would have more currency on hand in case of a national emergency, so I guess I’m not yet worried. And CDC/WHO are only doing what all other agencies are doing globally, in case of pandemic. What DOES worry me: have not yet seen anything either anecdotal or researched about the transmissibility of avian flu via mosquitoes, like West Nile Virus. Avian flu may typically be transmitted via oral-fecal route, but what concerns me is the possibility of mutation in the gut of mosquitoes, who may then spread it like they do West Nile Virus. Most of us don’t have contact with poultry or wild birds regularly, but might have more contact with mosquitoes depending on where we live. If you see unusual orders being documented for DEET, I’d be worrying more than would about currency inventory. (Unless the Treasury is prepared to tank the value of the dollar to piss off the Chinese in some sort of asymmetrical warfare…)

Mommybrain, op99 linked to the most recent relevant thread at 7:55 on this one. I’d recommend you read punaise’s comments starting at 11:21.

Leisure Guy – are you around? I owe you a reasoned follow-up to your comments taking exception to my mild snark about Kevin Drum last night.

Neurophius at 57 -

Thanks for the analysis. True to form, it appears that Klein is (a) mischaracterizing the positions of Democrats and (b) employing the terminology crafted by Repblicans to fit into their larger message. When you hear the phrase “cut and run” come out of a pundit’s mouth, the odds are high that you are listening to a Republican (or an extremely obtuse Democrat who doesn’t realize what he is doing). By the way, the same rule applies to pundits talking about Hillary Clinton. If you hear a pundit bring up Hillary running for president, you are damn near certain to be listening to a Republican. They love to talk about the subject ad nauseum for a number of reasons I don’t have time to go into now.

I have not spent any time researching Klein, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is one of those talking heads who just Loves to talk about Hilary in 08.

Klein is a straw man Democrat.

Influenza is not transmitted by mosquitoes.

Echoing zennurse @ 22, I am extremely saddened to learn that Valley Girl has left us. Damn. There will truly be an empty place here, unlike the one that is Tim Russert.

tom-chicago
Bernanke MO to deal with inflation is “print more money” coupled with the M3 no longer being reported which is a report that shows the actual amount of money in ciruclation, how would we know if it is being done to ensure enough cash is on hand for a pandemic or are they flooding the monitary system to fudge the inflation rate.

Thank you, Punaise and John Casper. I hope Valley Girl will find her way back. I am rarely around when the trolls come out but I have seen a couple of spews that raised my hackles. I, too, have noticed a subtle shift in tone but I’m ignoring it for now. Y’all are still here, that’s what matters.

Speaking of running for president, new story in NYT by Nagourney (or whatever) about the new and improved relationship between Bush and McCain. McCain:”I said, ‘Look, hang on, things are bad,’ ” Mr. McCain said. “I said, ‘I’m proud of the job you are doing, and I wanted you to know that I will continue to do what I can to help.’

“I’ve tried, when his numbers went down, to be more supportive and outspoken, because I’d love to pick him up,” Mr. McCain said.

And Bush would love to see Jeb as McCain’s running mate.

Now there’s a nightmare.

pow wow 62 — Hmmm. It seems I’m playing devil’s advocate here today, so I guess I’ll stick with it.

I’m not sure this is my understanding of the situation. If I had to guess I’d say that Reid (and others) are tired of being undermined by Lieberman, can’t do anything overtly to support his removal but would be delighted to see him gone. I’ll even give Chuck Schumer the benefit of the doubt here and recognize he’s in an awkward position — like it or not, Lieberman still stands the best chance of winning the Connecticut seat. That’s just a sad fact and I know people don’t like to hear it but it’s true. If they alienate him it could have serious repercussions, and they are probably none too happy at being in this position.

So what happens if Lieberman leaves the party? I’m delighted to have a high-profile showdown with the DSCC and the DCCC over the anti-progressive incumbency protection racket they’ve been running, and I think that if Lieberman leaves he will lose. There is just no good way to play that in a PR campaign.

I’m sure that’s a conflict they’d like to avoid. But for all the noise they make to the contrary, I think we are doing the party’s dirty work on this one. They may not like us…they may hate everything we are and what we represent…but I get the feeling that if for whatever reason Joe weren’t around in November any more, if only to hog less face time on camera that they then secure for themselves, the Dems would not be unhappy.

TRex gonna go all Keith Moon on his hotel room?
LMAO.
From the linked wikipedia post:
“He was known to lay waste to hotel rooms, the homes of friends, and even his own home, often throwing furniture out of high windows and destroying the plumbing with firecrackers.”

TRex is on deck, will be up soon.

OT:

Number one in a series of darkblack’s “Wild World of Web Wonders”…The Post Turtle.

‘Collect them all’

;>)

pow wow,
IMO, Schmur and Liebermann are much more of a problem than Reid.
With so called “liberals” such as Jokeline writing in TIME, I tend to give Harry a little slack. It is absolutely critical for the U.S. and the world, that we win both houses in November. IMO, the GOP has had a huge advantage in terms of undisclosed cash the last fifteen years. I think the gap may be narrower this time as a result of the K Street revelations ….

btw, terrific comment on emptywheel’s latest.

darkblack, ewwww. That image will be hard to dispel before I sleep tonight.

Hey Mad Dogs, I hope you are around to see the “fruit” of your 8:25 at dark black’s 9:48.
Thanks dark black.

Jane — I think we are doing the party’s dirty work on this one. They may not like us%u2026they may hate everything we are and what we represent%u2026but I get the feeling that if for whatever reason Joe weren’t around in November any more, if only to hog less face time on camera that they then secure for themselves, the Dems would not be unhappy.

We haven’t done any polling internally to ID “the Dems” cited above. I think we’re talking about less than 30% of folks identified as Dems, and unfortunately many are elected and entrenched officials. What if we were to simply ignore their existence as an outside faction and play this like a majority within the party?

It’s not going to be without scuffles; I’m up to my neck in one locally because the 30% won’t give up without a fight. Maybe I just need to head for bed, but I have to wonder if we don’t just treat them like children having a tantrum and ignore them and get on with democratic processes, both big and little D? what’s the downside at this point?

Bill Bennett as turtle: Post No Bills

TRex is in the building, new thread.

It’s fun to read Roger – painful to actual watch yourself.

neuro – what Imman said – he’s HUGE right. *g*

Here’s what Congress did and what affect it may or may not have. Several cases were pending at the time of the DTA – those are all what we’ll call the “Rasul habeas” cases. There are, as Imman pointed out, several kinds of habeas – some statutory, and the “original” bigboy- common law habeas. In Rasul v. Bush, the Supreme Court decided that one of the statutory types of habeas – found in 28 USC 2241 – gave US Courts grounds to hear the GITMO cases.

Now, since the Rasul habeas cases began to be filed, the President has also set up Combatant Status Review Tribunals (CSRTs) at Gitmo, and the military commissions under a Nov 2001 Exec Order. As you might guess, some issues are arising under the CSRTs, where lawyers are filing claims that the CSRTs were invalid and didn’t give detainees a proper opportunity to show that they really were either POWs or non-combatants. With the military commissions, as they reach a point of making final determinations, there will also be some issues from those commissions.

So in the DTA, Congress approached the three classes of cases – pending/future Rasul habeas cases, CSRT issues, and military commission issues – in two different ways. Congress said for CSRT determinations, detainees CAN file an appeal in the D.C Circuit Ct of Appeals, after the CSRT determination has been made. That appeal is limited to the Appellate Court deciding if a) the determination of combatant status was consistent with standards and procedures the Pres and Sec def have ordered for CSRTs, and b) whether those standards and procedures are consistent with the Constitution and laws, if the Constitution and laws apply. So Congress is saying that CSRT determinations can be appealed, but only the DC Cir.

They do pretty much the same thing with any final orders we might eventually get from the commissions. Congress says – those can be appealed, but only the D C Cir, and then the D. C Cir can only decide whether a) the final order is consistent with the standards and procedures of the Pres/Sec Def and b) whether the Constitution or other laws apply and if so if the standards and procedures set up by Pres/Sec Def are valid under those.

One big outcome of Hamdan is that the DC Cir has marching orders now, when and if any of those cases come to them. IMO, they have marching orders not just as to the military commissions (the Sup Ct has already told them the answer to b= the standards and procedures of the commissions violate the UCMJ and Geneva Convetions) but also the CSRTs, bc the Sup Ct said ALL tribunals and commissions have to follow the UCMJ and arguably the Sup Ct would find that Art. 5 of the Geneva Conventions apples to the CSRTs.

So Congress already has “the answer” it was trying to get by setting up the DC Cir appeals — the commissions (and IMO CSRTs) do NOT comply with law.

The Sup Ct used a pending Rasul habeas case to set those ground rules for the DC Cir – so I think that is a very large advanatage even if the cases start funneling to the DC Cir as CSRT or final order cases.

As to pending Rasul habeas cases, those can be heard under the Sup Ct’s ruling. However, Congress HAS amended the statute on which the Rasul cases are/were based to say that in the future, under THAT STATUTE (28 USC 2241) no US Court has jurisdiction to hear cases related specifically to alien detentions at GITMO.

This is a very weird carve out and made me very unhappy with Sen Levin for joining in as a co-sponsor at the time. But Right wing spinning and drama aside — here’s where we are. The Sup Ct in Hamdan did not have to decide that “jurisdiction stripping” issue, bc Hamdan was a pending case and so grandfathered in. But as Imman noted, a statute is not the only way the Ct. gets jurisdiction for habeas. There is every possibility that, if the application were made to it on a good grounds, the Court might entertain a habeas petition on behalf of a GITMO detainee, even after the DTA, on geneal habeas grounds rather than the statute referred to in the DTA.

Mor than that, though, is the fact that the Court has already told the D C Cir how it needs to rule on commission final orders (and imo CSRT determinations). SO without changes (and IMO, re-doing the CSRTs) Congress already knows what the DC Cir has to say about the commissions and tribunals – unlawful.

What Congress did not do is really spell out what actions it would take if the commissions and tribunalwere unlawful. Now we get to see what they do on the front end – with changing the rules. If they don’t do it right, we still get to see what happens when the DC Cir says the tribunals/commissions are illegal.

The “remedies” part is very up in the air.

darkblack at 81:

LOL! I’m gonna add that pic to the story. Hope you don’t mind if I spread it around.

John Casper 9:38 p.m.

Re: the Keith Moon tangent

In 1967 or 68, I saw the Who perform live in Oklahoma. It was Moon’s birthday, they said, and presented him with a birthday cake. He threw it at the audience.

From your Wikipedia link:

“When the manager came to Keith’s door and saw all of the drinking and smoking, he demanded the party be stopped and that Keith should leave. As the manager spoke, Keith picked up a cake and shoved it in his face.”

ROFL

Hope that puts TRex in the mood.

Mary,

Thank you for your distillations of the Hamdan decision and its possible ramifications. You do a very valuable service for those of us here (well, me anyway) with no legal training.

Mary–thanks.

Well, I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise, that’s for sure. And of course, you were face to face with Harry Reid in Las Vegas on this topic, Jane, so your analysis carries that extra insight. I definitely shared that point of view to begin with, but I guess I’m starting to seriously question how Harry Reid operates behind the scenes as opposed to the way he talks — although I know he talks with great pride about Chuck Schumer’s performance as DSCC Chair. But, by and large, almost all the Democrats would be glad to be free of the “Lieberman Problem” in the future, once all the ‘messiness’ is over with (and cleaned up by the bloggers and grassroots), I can certainly concur.

In my comment, I was also referencing the dropping of the ball on the Geneva Conventions/Independence Day tie-in/RJ Eskow’s brilliant suggestions, and just all the many, many, many different avenues the Democrats could be using to get a fresh new, clear message out this weekend in response to the Supreme Court’s powerful decision, the new spying revelations, and on and on. And I’m feeling like the cause is lost — because Reid had a core group of Senators leading the way on a principled Iraq vote, which they followed-up last week on television (Feingold et al), and this week Reid frittered that all away by sending out Schumer, Feinstein, and Jack Reed. Didn’t try to come to terms with the Feingold group, and build on their momentum, at all. Reid just seems stuck in the past, and too stubborn to budge, despite pressure now even coming from Dick Durbin, his #2 in the caucus.

Maybe what we need is a long, detailed interview of Harry Reid by a blogger, addressing these party unity issues — I just can’t understand what his strategy is. And by the time he realizes he’s dropped the ball, it will be too late to turn it around for November, seems to me.

But I just don’t know – I’m trying to guess at what’s going on behind the scenes that might be driving the public developments (or lack thereof). Here’s hoping I’m proved completely wrong by those with a little more optimism.

P.S. Thanks, John C.!

Mad Dogs @ 89:

That’s what it’s there for.

;>)

Danke darkblack!

Gonna toss some giggles to colleagues and friends! *g*

Roger, thanks for the shoutout to AIPAC.

At some point I would like to know if Fitz still has that retinue of counter-espionage experts on his staff. Strobel still hasn’t followed up on that early report.

- What made Rove blanch during that last appearance?
- Why no attack on Fitz by Rove?
- Why Hayden?
- Why Sealed vrs. Sealed?

pow wow 93 – Maybe what we need is a long, detailed interview of Harry Reid by a blogger, addressing these party unity issues – I just can’t understand what his strategy is.

here’s a step in that direction: salon.com interview with Reid during YKos

Mary @ 88 – Thanks!

I thought Andrea Mitchell did a great job, that was the most interesting MTP in quite some time.

Not only did she challenge misleading statements very agressively (not just Bennet but all the guests) but the guests were more aggressive as well.

Well done Andrea!

Reed also suggested the holding in Hamdan would apply to all of Bush’s extralegal activities, including illegal phone taps and secret prisons.

What does “holding” mean? Thanks.

Jane I got to go along with Pete 30.

We all know Klein’s history and I’m not making excuses for that but on yesterday’s show which is what your round up was dealing with Joe Klein did a great job battling Kookie, B movie actor/Senator Thompson (what was Tennessee thinking?) and the squirt.

For a day he gets credit.

Actually, we took a vacation from Russert. Ms. Mitchell ended the show with an old MTP on the Pentagon Papers – which reminded me that MTP was a great show before Russert took over. It was a great show yesterday. Hmmm. Fire Russert and hire Ms. Mitchell as the host.

Also – a little self-promotion. In my post on the Safire-Harwood-Priest bashing of Billie Boy Bennett, it seems I’ve gotten engaged in a battle of wits with Jonah Goldberg. OK, it’s like fighting a small child with both of his arms tied back his back, but enjoy.

Classy graphic! Reminds me of the timeless images you used to feature exclusively.

Maybe I’m being an alarmist about this, but what I’m hearing about the Hamdan decision is that in response to it this administration is going to continue as a signatory to the Geneva Conventios. At the same time the administration claims it has the right to demand that our friends and family in the military behave like terrorists and commit war crimes.

The Daily Howler
http://dailyhowler.com/dh070506.shtml
makes the same point as I made earlier here.

That web site provides a link to the podcast, and also provides excerpts.

The Daily Howler says: “The (firedoglake) summary completely misinformed liberal readers. Why do we want to do this to ourselves? How can this form of self-deception possibly serve our real interests

Anyone care to respond?

I agree with Pete. While Ms. Hamsher is correct in summarizing Klien as often being a lapdog for the GOP, it does anyone who did not watch This Week a disservice by failing to point out that Klien did indeed to a surprisingly good job of taking the administration to task for its Hitlerian intimidation campaign against the New York Times.

The fact that Klien is usually a blathering ass is a different issue than whether some salient points were being made on Sunday.

I concur with Pete’s comment. While Klein certainly has a problem as a flawed reporter who spins things in his own interest,it is a mistake to categorize press leeches as himself in the unproductive light of a two way political framework. Is he a Democrat? Who cares – frankly his political leanings are not the issue – his reporting is. And like his glib silly commentary that often disregards facts – this blog piece shares Mr. Klein’s indulgences and flaws. In this past Sunday performance – Klein was fairly reasoned as he can be at times, to say otherwise is to create that ‘other’ Joe Klein. Creating ‘otherness’ satisfies the unfortunate impulse to maintain a combatitive attitude in support of secure idealogy – which we all know has a nasty way of overwhelming facts.