
There is a sort of hoo haw going on about the NYTimes Travel Section, the not-even-remotely-secret adjacent compounds that the Rummys and the Cheneys purchased on the Maryland shore and the publication of names, addresses and phone numbers of the persons involved in the...TRAVEL SECTION...article.
Not even getting into the idiocy of the wingnutosphere bitching about a newspaper publishing information that is in the public record or anything (and frankly, Glenn's already covered it in spades...) -- Billmon is absolutely correct to mock them as the Ministry of Silly Walks and their pals in woof-woof land -- I thought everyone would like a heads up that something wicked this way comes.
The Fall elections fast approacheth, and the full on assault of the wingnuts against all things accurate or truthful has begun. It's election season, and anything they can do to stir up the righteous wrath of the ill-informed and frothing at the mouth will be ramped up over the next few months. Clearly, Wedge Issue June wasn't the hotbed of base excitement that they had hoped (dang! "hate the gays" isn't workin' like it used to...), but that's what they get for depending on a cat killer with the organizational and motivational skills of a George Bush toady.
Billmon is right on the money (and, may I take a moment to say, how fantastic it is to see regular blogging at the Whiskey Bar...I was having withdrawal symptoms.):
The problem is, I actually wish the Times hadn't published the SWIFT story -- although not for the same reasons as the adminstration and its right-wing squawk box. As Dan Froomkin, Glenn Greenwald and others have already pointed out, much if not most of what the Times reported is already in the public record. That being the case, the benefits of collating it and putting it on page one probably didn’t outweigh the costs. I mean, how many more stories do we need to know that the Cheney Administration regards the Constitution as an inconvenient piece of parchment?And the costs, in my opinion, could be considerable. The right is getting a lot of mileage, at least with its own partisans, out of bashing the Times. Their reasons for hating the paper are certainly different from mine, but that doesn't change the fact that the New York Times, like Dan Rather and Hillary Clinton, is a brand name you can always count on to get the juices of hysterical hatred flowing out in woof woof land.
And that sort of hysteria is exactly what the Rovians desperately need as we head around the turn and towards the final stretch of this year's congressional elections. It's not that domestic spying is a great issue for them with the electorate as a whole -- although it could be if the Dems play it wrong, and since they're the Dems they can generally be counted on to play things wrong. But it is a big winner with their base, which actually hates the idea that Big Brother isn't listening in on every phone call in the country (or so we hope) because if he was he'd catch all those filthy liberals conspiring with bin Ladin.
OK, I exaggerate, slightly. But the point is that anything that helps Rove rally the GOP base between now and November helps preserve the Republican Reichstag, and anything that preserves the Republican Reichstag helps the administration go on turning the war against Al Qaeda into the war for unlimited presidential power. (It's not that the Dems would be much of a brake on the machine, but any brake at all would be better than what we’ve got now.)
So you see, it's not about accuracy of the articles therein, or whether or not there is any merit to any of the claims against the NYTimes or any other media establishment (although the Times has been the whipping boy for so long, it's become a sort of brand name frothing tag line for the right-wing silly walkers). It's about stirring up the wingnut base which has become so Pavlovian in its response to the Mighty Wurlitzer button pushing that you can see the jumping up and the asking of how high as the unthinking, well-trained wingnuts are already on their way.
Here's the thing, though -- occasionally, something breaks through: you know, pesky things like facts, reality, honest truth. A lot of it makes its way into the public consciousness via reporters who do actually their jobs and do them well and via bloggers who dig into facts and then dissect them on the web. This news propagates through the e-mails of various and sundry readers, and then...whammo!...Wedge Issue June fizzles out or the wingnut pushback isn't so effective.
Which is why the press attacks on the blogs of late have been so monumentally idiotic. While the folks in the press think that left wing bloggers are all after their jobs (as if!), the right wingnut-o-sphere is sitting back and watching the press try to do their job for them-- eviscerating one of the more productive means of countering the right-wing Orwellian "up is down" noise machine, and undercutting the entire media establishment's ability to do its job in the first place by consistently undermining truthtelling in a very potent form. Listen to Digby:
Call me naive, but it sounds to me as if the Supreme Court, the Democrats and the American people are all in agreement. It's the Republicans who want to continue this fiction that the government should be able to hold these presumed terrorists in limbo forever.A senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the issue is still being debated internally, seemed to hint at the potential political implications in Congress. "Members of both parties will have to decide whether terrorists who cherish the killing of innocents deserve the same protections as our men and women who wear the uniform," this official said.
The assumption, again, being that these people are all guilty when everyone knows for a fact that many of them are not. That means that this administration just doesn't give a shit if innocent people are held prisoner forever. I suppose that there are people who think that's just the price that must be paid (by someone else) for our "freedom," but moral people cannot believe this.
On a practical political level, you can see by the way the WaPo article is written that the narrative frame for the debate is going to be the same as all the other war debates: will the weak, ineffectual Democrats be able to resist the strong, aggressive Republicans this time or will they give in once again to the presidents' bold, controversial plans out of fear of being seen as soft on national security?
Can we all see the problems with that?
I said this on the media panel I did at YKos, but I'm going to say it again, because it bears repeating: the right wingnuts want the media to function as Pravda did for the old Soviet regime -- echoing only what the State has sanctioned as "news for the masses." What does the left wing want? We want them to do their jobs, tell the truth, and report the facts. That's it, plain and simple.
Jay Rosen, whose exceptional blog PressThink repeatedly asks the questions we wish we could believe the whole of the media was asking themselves, had a great piece this week on "The People Formerly Known as the Audience." Great stuff, including:
Fithian, Kirschner and company should know that such fantastic delusions (“we own the eyeballs…”) were the historical products of a media system that gave its operators an exaggerated sense of their own power and mastery over others. New media is undoing all that, which makes us smile.
You don’t own the eyeballs. You don’t own the press, which is now divided into pro and amateur zones. You don’t control production on the new platform, which isn’t one-way. There’s a new balance of power between you and us.
The people formerly known as the audience are simply the public made realer, less fictional, more able, less predictable. You should welcome that, media people. But whether you do or not we want you to know we’re here.
Amen, Jay. As Eric Boehlert said during our FDL Book Salon chat last weekend:
I don’t think blogs, for now, can supplant the msm’s ability to annoint cw. But blogs can sometimes help correct it or re-direct the cw.The bad news is in recent months I’ve become even more pessimisitic as we watch the msm again and again simply ignore obvious points raised online and just embrace RNC talking points. i.e. last week I wrote how odd it was the press was protraying dems as the losers in the 'cut and run' vs. timetable debate, considering the three previous national polls all showed a majority of americans supported the dems position; setting a timetable.
Yet this week’s newsweek reports the gop ‘won’ the debate on iraq last week, while, of course, conventiently ignoring the fact americans side w/ dems.
It’s like this bad movie that won’t stop replaying itself.
But what does this do for the current pushback -- both from right-wing silly walkers and from a frightened media, who have ginned up a left wing bogeyman because they can't bear to admit to themselves that they are suffering from long-term battered press syndrome from the right? No idea -- but when one considers that the Rita Cosby's of the world keep getting canned, while the Keith Olberman's of the world have bigger and better ratings...well, that handwriting is on the wall, now isn't it?
In the meantime, let's all try to view the media bashing on the right for what it is: a Pavlovian tactic to stir up the masses of non-thinking wingnuts. Here's hoping they have as much success with it as they did with Wedge Issue June.
(I found this bit of graffiti artwork on a blog from a Montreal-er, and thought it was perfect for this, considering Billmon's reference to the wingnutosphere as the "Ministry of Silly Walks." Love Monty Python...)
UPDATE: And for extra credit, let's contemplate the ethical lapses that Atrios finds here.
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R O O T Z !!!
unbeat!
NYTimes Travel Section and films from yesterday about today…
“3 Days of the Condor” 1975 CIA conspiracy Mid-East oil and destabilization. Dead on Rummy and the bunch, Iraq and the Times.
And:
Andrs Manuel Lpez Obrado
Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador
correction, sorry.
Billmon!
Trouble is…”the masses of non-thinking wingnuts” can be quite weighty.
Oklahoma kiddo at 7 — I hear vast quantities of Cheetos will do that to you…
David Brock and Media Matters! (he’s cute too!)
Anything to get the headlines off of Iraq.
This is not silly. They really do want reporters to fear for their lives. They are fascists. They know that the country is not ready for a fascist takeover yet, but that’s their goal. They know that John Paul Stevens can’t live forever. If they can hold onto Congress for two more years, they can rev up another terrorist fright for 2008, get enough votes to steal the election convincingly, and Stevens will certainly die before 2012- and you can kiss our democracy good-bye. And kicking the press into submission is a key part of the plan.
moonbat malkin and her ilk are terroracists.
What Mary Alice said. Divert the sheep. That’s the junta’s supreme and only policy.
How about this little subtle Bush smear on the media.
Read this quote and you will instantly see Bush equating the media as being collaboraters and fifth columnists with Al Qaeda.
(Snip)
“If authentic, the tape demonstrates yet again that bin Laden and al-Qaida continue to use the media to justify their dark vision and war against humanity,” the Bush administration said in a statement.”
Hey Mr. Bush, you use the media too. It’s the message, not the medium.
-GSD
The nightmare that is behind all of this is, of course, when Negroponte is appointed McCain’s Secretary of State and things start to happen to those reporters. And somehow the SWIFT records of people who have contributed to certain websites gets into the hands of an obscure right-wing paramilitary group made up of former intelligence agents. I say that, not so much because I think we have no means to avert the plunge into corporate facism, but rather because a dim memory of a similar nightmare (or a version that some Palestinians are living through now) is what causes these insidious actions to be immediately effective in chilling speech and promoting self-censorship.
in order to have an ethical lapse, you have to have ethics to begin with. i think.
It’s facts v. fear, which is another way of saying rationl v. irrational, and the GOP believes that fear trumps facts and the irrational trumps the rational.
To some extent they are right. I mentioned this last night, but trying to counter fear with facts is about as easy as explaining to a toddler that there are no monsters under the bed or in the closet. As long as the child believes the monsters are there, no amount of rational explanation will do.
But how do we do the parental equivalent of turning an ordinary spray bottle into “Monster Repellent” so that fearful voters will have the courage to face the reality that the biggest monsters of all are not in the closet or under the bed, butm are sitting in the Oval Office and in the halls of Congress?
What do people need from us to vanquish the irrational fear that the right is cultivating?
I am amazed how the powergrab of this administration is similar to how the old Soviet Union used to operate. The way they handle the news, the way they keep prisoners in a gulag, the way they export their crooked type of governance, the way they fix elections. I wonder when their frontal assault on the blogosphere is getting into high gear.
It’s odd that Ann Coulter — and let’s just call a terrorist a terrorist — has made it this far in her voter fraud case, without her home address being splashed around.
I’m not advocating its spread. The last thing I want is a vigilante army harassing or threatening her. But if anybody deserved to fall prey to the baser instincts of the media, in all its forms, it’s Ann Coulter, Terrorist. That she hasn’t means something.
JR 11 - the government of our founders died on December 12 2000. What we’ve been witnessing since then is this psycho thug junta raping and maniacally dancing upon the corpse.
Hopefully after they have accomplished the utter physical destruction of our civilized nation, some of us will still be here to pick up the pieces. I will never stop having faith in the boundless promise and capacity of our smart children either.
Guest Post from TPM reader DK:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....008906.php
The Air Force is venturing forth into the virtual blue yonder with $450,000 in funding for a three-year project entitled “Automated Ontologically-Based Link Analysis of International Web Logs for the Timely Discovery of Relevant and Credible Information.”
That’s right. The Air Force is studying blogs. All part of Rumsfeld’s military transformation, I suppose. Here’s some of what the Air Force has deduced so far:
He must be talking about these guys.
I’ve always said that about Wolcott’s blog–too much actionable information. …
“Real Republicans are not haters. Not ever. It’s just not in them to hate, just as it’s not in any real American to hate any other American who lives within the law.”
-Ben Stein, defending Karl Rove, who gave Ben a ride home (Why I Am a Republican 6/26/2006).
Hey Ben, your friend “cloth coat” Karl started this hate fest against the NYT, which is culminating in Real Republicans publishing a photographer’s home address and urging people to find out where the kids of NYT staffers go to school.
This is no more an accident than the bigot-fest regarding the McCain’s adopted baby back in the 2000 South Carolina Republican presidential primary.
Sorry Ben, the Republican party is the party of hate. And you are just turning the truth on its head.
Anne at 17 — I’ve been thinking a lot about that lately, but haven’t come up with any really good answers other than the usual mocking of the other side of things. I’d love everyone’s thoughts on this issue — and the spray bottle of monster repellent is a great image, I have to say. :)
Instead of comparing the Bush regime to the Third Reich, it might be more effective to compare them with the Soviet Union…..there are lots of similarities.
Good post Christy.
Anne 42, the only thing I can think of is to talk to people. In grocery lines, at parties (unless it’s the choir), with friends and acquaintances. I tend to get pedantic when riled so I try to keep it mellow. But two of our neighbors changed their voter reg to D this year for the primary -I don’t claim credit but did what I could to encourage the roll-over.
I keep hearing Al Gore’s voice in my head when I get discouraged. I know he’s right. The tipping point can come at any time.
Good morning from the upper midwest. If we can’t get the media back to neutral, all is lost. I don’t think they are scared. That is their bent. They color us the way they do because they WANT to.
Plagiarism from across the pond.
Is Karl Rove jotting down some memorable lines for Bush’s shaved poodle, Tony Blair? Or is Blair just lifting vapid and self aggrandizing memes all on his own?
You decide.
Tony Blair: “What sustains a government at this point is self-belief.”
Compared with: “We create our own reality.”
-GSD
#24.
Although there is a strong cult of personality theme among many Christians, it is indeed the “party” line that Republicans push. Just like the old commies. Party first.
-GSD
I must agree with the other posters above.
This is not just spin and electioneering. The far right is being serious. This is exactly what they want. They want journalists murdered. They want abortion doctors murdererd. They want anyone who disagrees with Dear Leader imprisoned at least, and dead would be best.
We MUST take these threats seriously.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 22:
‘Amazingly fit and trim…posterior‘ - ‘helps wash the dishes’ - ‘helps keep the house clean’ - ‘walks the dogs’, and during all this not ‘one mean word about anyone on the other side’…What’s not to love?
;>)
*wilson spotted MediaMatters as a frontline battlement against the assault on truth, justice and the American way being run out of Rove’s office. This essay by Paul Waldman appeared at MMFA on Friday:
“A declaration of war
This week, the conservatives declared war.
Not on The New York Times. Not even on the media in general. No, this week the entire conservative movement — from the White House to Republicans in Congress to Fox News to right-wing talk radio to conservative magazines — declared war on the very idea of an independent press.
They declared war on the idea that journalists have not just the right but the obligation to hold those in power accountable for their actions. They declared war on the idea that journalists, not the government and not a political party, get to decide what appears in the press. They declared war on the idea that the public has a right to know what the government is doing in our name.
This is a profound threat to our democracy, and we underestimate it at our peril.”
Sharkbabe,
Ever read the speechj by Etan Thomas.
It has the great line: “The bird of democracy flew the coop back in Florida.”
http://www.democracynow.org/ar.....26/1434223
-GSD
As to Ben Stein, he is just like the Republicans who claim Bush is “liberal” and not a “real” conservative. Yes Ben, there is no hate in a party littered with the fetid ramblings of Malkin, Limbaugh, G. Gordon Liddy, Coulter, Savage and beloved Rev. Pat Robertson.
oops, link to Paul Waldman’s essay:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200607010004
Lol darkblack. Beverage warning, please!
The New York Times is a brake on all progress and has been since 1995 or so. That they can’t see the problem now, after being accused of treason by the President of the United States, tells you everything you need to know.
Freedom of Press yes, NYT no; and the latter, by their dominant position, actively impedes the former.
The country would be a better place without the New York Times. Let other newspapers, other media replace this incubus.
.
darkblack!
Hmmm…love Billmon, may have to split a few hairs here. I agree the story wasn’t a big deal and much of the information had already been out there, but for that very reason — why should the NYT think that THIS would be the thing that sent the wingnuts over the edge? They’re always right there on the precipice anyway, and Rove will find one thing or another (even if he has to make it up) to rally the base. I’m not sure you can use that as a rational for NOT doing something. You wind up in Chuck Schumer land — second guessing yourself, not wanting to do anything “controversial” lest you give Rove the tools to do what he’s going to do anyway, no matter what you do.
Wingnuttia is now frothing about the frigging TRAVEL section in the NYT. Really, they’ll always find something. And I do think the steady drip-drip-drip of information about the Cheney Administration’s police state is starting to have an impact on the American consciousness, as I’ve always firmly believed it would. There’s a strain of deep “stay out of my business” libertarianism even amongst wingnuts, and it’s starting to split the rural red staters off from the True Kool-Aid Drinkers.
I’m glad the NYT published the SWIFT story. One can only hope they’ll wake up and stop accomodating those people who simply want to destroy them.
Well, time for some fun in the sun, Fourth of July, nephew’s birthday, celebratin’ (and undoing all the work at the gym this week), by feasting on hard-shell crabs washed down with ice-cold beer (the only time I ever drink beer), corn-on-the-cob, cucumber salad (thinly-sliced cucumber with paper thin onion slices, marinated in really good vinegar), fresh blueberries from our heavy-with-berries blueberry bush, and the carrot cake my nephew requests I make for him every year (he’s only 11, so it hasn’t been THAT many years, and he won’t be drinking beer of any kind).
MMMmmmmm…
The eventual outcome of bashing the Media and the constant spinning and attacks… There is no more truth or how do we know what the truth is anymore.
Goverment reports and analysis is “edited” to march to the party line.
Talking points are MORE important than the actual story or the truth.
Paid media to post stories pushing the party line.
The above is why I migrated to the blogs 5 years ago. Internet news such as Buzzflash, Alternet and CommonDreams.
Actually I believe the Media NEEDS to be liberal, because Liberals attempt to evaluate BOTH sides of the story and it takes the use of both the Right and the Left sides of your brain to be able to perform indepth analysis.
For the adult toddlers who are so afraid of the monsters under the bed, perhaps the answer is to point out — continuously — that the spray bottle currently being brandished by Bushco is empty. It doesn’t have anything in it. Why would anyone believe that the wonderful folks who let New Orleans drown, let OBL escape, and FUBARed Iraq could do a competent job of monster repellant?
It doesn’t work to tell them that there are no monsters, because there manifestly are monsters and they keep releasing video tapes. It also apparently doesn’t work to tell them that courage is about going to sleep in spite of the monsters. It might work to remind them of Katrina. A child can’t pick a more effective parent, but a voter can.
And one additional thought: just as we need to tie Bush around the necks of Republican candidates for Congress, so too we need to tie Cheney around the neck of Bush. Maybe someone needs to photoshop a photo of Lieberman sitting on Bush’s lap sitting on Cheney’s lap. Let’s get those PARs down to 20%.
Hey Ben Stein, they’re going to intern and eventually kill you too. Fucking FOOL.
MikeB 35
The problem is that righty newspapers(like ours here) just bought the Duluth Minnesota paper. That is the last thing Democrats in Minnesota need as they fight to keep their state blue.
From C & L:
“On Meet the Press this morning, Washington Post reporter Dana Priest snap back at Bill Bennett. She said it is not a crime to disclose classified information and then went on to say that people would like to make casino gambling against the law, but it is not illegal. Bill Bennett, who has previously admitted a gambling problem, sat in stunned silence like he had just been punched hard in the stomach. It was a classic moment.”
-GSD
There is a push-back being waged. Barney Frank shutdown a rightwing chimp-bot on the floor of the house this week. James Webb fired a few missiles right into Chicken George Allen’s slave ship hull too. Now Dana Priest slapping Dollar Bill Bennett’s playing cards all over the floor.
Our own friends in the blogsphere are manning the ramparts quite well too.
Anne, sheez would you quit torturing me with the carrot cake already :)
Really, though, in the same way that “illegal immigration” is the new “segregation forever” isn’t “The New York Times” rightwing code for “Jews and secular humanists?”
The rightwing can’t really hate The New York Times itself — after all, wasn’t the Grey Lady terribly helpful to Scooter, Addington, and Chalabi? And what paper has been more dismissive of the “stolen elections” research, investigative reporting, and dot-connecting?
No, no, no: it’s that The New York Times is run by people with names like Sulzberger and Keller. That’s the ticket for the base. Oh, and about The Base: does anyone else think it’s plain odd that Bush’s and Bin Ladin’s supporters have the same name?
… and George Bush’s supporters are very base !
I was away from the computer yesterday and am just catching up on the posts I missed.
I just read Pach’s post about how to connect with single women.
I addition to health care, and especailly child care (if you are a single mom, reliable, affordable child care is the difference between being able to make you life happen and not- after my divorce is final I am moving to the town my mother lives in so that she can watch my daughter after school–and I am not a minimum wage worker)
One thing I did not see mentioned on the thread is simply saying that you want to connect with them.
That you have identified them as a group who’s needs line up very closely with progressive values and you want to connect with them as voters because there vote matters to you and you want their vote to influence policy.
It is a very empowering thing to say to a class of people that don’t feel like they have much power or prestige or that their voice counts.
I was amazed at how much more seriously I was taken as a professional after I got married. Which is weird since my single(pre child) self had more time, energy and attention to devote to the job.
But put a ring on the left hand and all the sudden people start taking what you have to say much more seriously. (I’ll skip over how much that pisses me off)
One day some years ago, I was at a fundraiser held in NYC for the non-partisan Women’s Campaign School. It was mostly, but not exclusively women.
One man made an announcement, he said he was the chairman of the NYS republican Assembly campaign committee and that thay were actively looking for women candidates, would groom them, help fund their campaigns, and you did not have to be a republican and in some circumstance might not have to change your registration to run on the republican line.
You just had to be willing to run on “most” of their platform (meaning you did not have to go lockstep on choice)
To say that everyone in the room (and it was a large and crowed room) was stunned was a huge understatement. Betsy Gottbaum called him out on it thinking it was a bluff (which is how we found out about the wiggle room on the abortion plank). He said that they had identified women (yup soccer moms) as an underperforming segment of the voting public and wanted to mine those votes and he thought the best way to do that was by running alot of women so the Reps could claim to be the party of women. They also at about that time recruited women to run in the House and right after that Liddy Dole was running for president.
While that was all a stunt, many women, both parties took his business card that day. After he left, I was standing with a group of Dem women who were furious with the Dems, becuse no one ever asks us to run. Dem women have to thow huge fits with local party bosses and run as insurgents in uphill primaries to get started in their first elected office. You don’t see the dems grooming first time women candidates they way they groom bright, presentable young men. Why do you think Ellen Malcom had to start Emily’s List and Judy Hope start Eleanor Roosevelt’s Legacy?
The first person to ever ask me to run for anything was David Patterson back when he was chairng the NYS Dem Senate Campaign Committee. He made a noticible effort to recruit people who do not fit the back room deal profile so beloved by most old fashioned local party bosses.
Problem was, then the local bosses did not make much of an effort to really support David’s candidates (Which is one of the reasons why I declined to run–my local chairman would have added my name to the petitons, mentioned my name if I showed up at an event, but that would be it, not money, no phone calls calling in favors, not boots on the ground. NADA — he was quite clear, if your Patterson’s girl let him elect you–and it wasn’t just me. Our beloved chairman said the same thing to every woman in my district approached by the DSCC)
A huge problem in the Dem party, is the party leadership itself. How much time does Howard Dean waste having to fight with “bosses” inside his own party? how many shouting matches will Rahm Emanuel instigate with him over the 50 state program?
When women become county chairmen in the Dem party, things will change alot. In the meantime, simply telling single women voters that they are an important voting block, will be an empowring thing, cause them to take themselves and their vote more seriously. Just tell them you are courting their vote.
It certainly worked with the soccer moms.
Gotta stop the flag-burning gay Mexicans from getting married to their puppies!
oh Sharkbabe @ 41 - am with ya, always think of the elimination of the enablers in Animal Farm whenever I have the misfortune to see or hear any one of these suckpuppets
BarbaraB - but Bush and Rove and Cheney would all argue - and are arguing - that the bottle isn’t empty, that it is the media and the Democrats which are working to empty that bottle.
They did it with the NSA program, and they’re doing it now with the banking surveillance program. They’re also doing it with the SC ruling, suggesting that not giving the president the authority to do what he wants to do is being soft on terrorism.
The Monster Repellent isn’t effective on the real monsters - those who would happily see the US go up in flames - but it is highly effective against those who seek power through fear. L. Frank Baum was probably the creator of the first Monster Repellent - it was, as we all remember, nothing but water that melted the Wicked Witch of the West.
Jane 10:06 — something smells. REALLY reeks.
Why all the excess of panicky concern over the NYT, yet again??
Doesn’t that strike you as odd?
Did the NYT slip off its leash when it “lost” Miller? Has there been a story the NYT failed to carry, like one on alleged Iranian threats? Or is there another BIG story that NYT sits on that the White House knows about and is terrified will be printed?
Something’s going on here; the VRWC is going batsh*t over the very paper that sealed the deal on the Iraq war for them.
Anyhow, as for all the hullabaloo from the VRWC: we simply call it like it is. They are ape-sh*t fruit bat krazy, to the point where they want to kill the Constitution and the First Amendment. Start telling gun rights folks that the Second Amendment is next — heck, the DHS is already stopping ordinary Americans from having fireworks in their possession, how long before these same wackjobs start after their hunting rifles?
* wink *
Teddy -
The rightwing can’t really hate The New York Times itself %u2014 after all, wasn’t the Grey Lady terribly helpful to Scooter, Addington, and Chalabi? And what paper has been more dismissive of the “stolen elections” research, investigative reporting, and dot-connecting?
You think the fascists care? What has NYT done for them lately?
Dana Priest smackdown of Bennett! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmYFc_ZCdH4
Christy,
Welcome to CT.!!!I’m up the road a piece in New London, working for Lamont. He’ll be here for Sailfest on Sat. July 8th. Would love to invite you to come and maybe live-blog from an internet cafe at a local marina that day. beach and spectacular fireworks for the little papoose.
Or, any other day or evening to help us jazz up the campaign here. I can plan something. Sorry to break the thread here with an off topic comment.
I agree with JH. For an example, remember how many Dems went along with the shrub on the Iraq war, imho because they didn’t want to be accused of being traitors and cowards.
Of course, that was what was going to happen anyways, along with a heaping helping of “you voted for the war, too!”
Now getting to CHS’s monster spray:
1) Keep reminding everyone that Cheney, Inc. did lie us into a debacle in Iraq.
2) These clowns claim to support the troops? We need a detailed account of all the bills and votes where the Republicans have done precisely the opposite. To the Republicans, a soldier is a tool for empire, until he or she returns home. Then they are Cadillac driving welfare queens, to the Grover Norquists of the world. This information is out there, but I can’t find it all in a well organized spot.
3) The domestic spying. The Republicans keep trying to position it as “are you with us, or do you love the terrorists?” question. It is a “Repubicans are spying on all of us, illegally!” answer.
That’s for starters…
Kathleen — actually, Jane is the one in CT this week. I’m still home in WV. :)
Hot of the Youtube.
“High Steaks” Bill Bennett smacked down by Dana Priest. He gets so jittery he moves his chair and is sounds like a fart.
Go Dana!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....chive.html
I’m with Rayne on this: there’s something on Keller’s desk they are negotiating about NOW. They’ve told him not to print the NEXT story and he’s trying to figure out how — or whether — to print it.
That’s the real story here. The bluster and blather and Jew-hating: that’s the intended and lovely consequence. But Keller’s got something else to print, you betcha, and it’s big.
Dana Priest notwithstanding, the media HAS ALREADY been acting like Pravda on this NYT issue. Andrea Greenspan was an absolute disgrace on MTP today, interrupting Harwood and making Bennett’s arguments for him and giving Bennett the first AND LAST word on the matter. It wasn’t much better on This Week. When Joe Klien (yeah, I’m amazed too) started to defend the Times, Cokie immediately interrupted him and smacked him down.
Tweety has gone from a defender of the article on Monday, when he had Ron Suskind on, to saying “I wouldn’t publish the article” on Thursday when he had his group of executioners on (and I thought that MSNBC had decided that Smirkonicz was a political operative and was NOT going to be on the network).
He also had the Malkin wannabe, Melanie Morgan on, TWICE.
All it took was a three point ‘bounce’ in the polls to have the MSM go back to cowering and spouting the Administration’s claptrap. What a bunch of heroes we got there.
However, to give credit where credit is due, just when you think you know what Safire’s gonna do, he turns around and reminds you that he’s old school and and ain’t gonna bash his profession.
From Billmon’s site:
Alternatively, perhaps the administration suspects, or at least has reason to worry, that the Times is getting close to an even bigger police state atrocity, and are pulling out the stops to try to intimidate Keller and his minions into laying off the story.
I think Billmon is on to something. Perhaps the administration is using the SWIFT information for something unrelated to terrorism.
For what purpose could that be? Could monitoring the activities of large hedge funds, which frequently engage in large international transactions, yield useful information to whomever had it? You bet.
*ilson,
You beat me by THAT much.
-GSD
@34, obviously there are lots of folks here who didn’t go to college with the same bunch of clowns I did … everyone saved their best material for the dining hall, where timing is everything: wait ’til your mate has a mouthful of spaghetti or cola, then drop your best one-liner. I tell y’all, I learned to swallow the food/drink, then laugh … a useful life skill!
“VRWC is going batsh*t over the very paper that sealed the deal on the Iraq war for them”
sure it would, if cornered, these creatures woudl bash their own mothers or children if it were in some way politically expedient
this is just one more opportuity to speak to the now wavering base (not the bottom feeder 20%) about ‘terra and the big swinging dick in the WH protecting us all - and frankly, I’d like to know why all those big brainy kewl kidz friggin’ fell for it - quite frankly, I think Rove got this idea from the NSA fallout
“yeah, that’s the ticket, we’ll sucker ‘em in to splashing our talking point spooge all over da place! “
and it never hurts that the so called ’source’ were those “secular-humanists” geesh
A few words in defense of Chuck Schumer, or at least in sympathy –
In early January 2001, I sent him a fax advocating two main points.
First, I asked him to NOT ratify the Florida Electors. (struck out on that one, sad to say)
Second, I made the case that since the DoJ is charged with defending the rights of ALL Americans, it was inappropriate to have an AG as overtly religious as John Ashcroft.
Much to my amazement, Chuck Schumer made that case very eloquently during Ashcroft’s confirmation hearings. For his efforts, Schumer got nuked by the right wing, and not a single Democrat came to his defense. He went underground for months.
Chuck Schumer learned a painful lesson — a Democrat sticks their neck out at their own peril, because your fellow Democrats will not have your back, unless they are trying to stick a shiv in it.
The same thing happened to Murtha, but at least the netroots had his back.
The conditioned response of Democrats to duck and cover whenever courage is called for has been a long time in the making, and it will not disappear overnight.
Unless Ned Lamont kicks Joe-nertia in the teeth, and blows up the Vichy Dem attitude in the process.
From his comments on the bobble-head atrocity show, it seems that Chuck Schumer is beginning to get it.
Blogs appear to be a good step back towards true democracy where we get to participate in the discussion.
True net neutrality and ownership diversity is important for this to continue.
A lot of our criticism of papers like the Times can show the same top-down thinking that got the media into this mess in the first place. As long as there are people working at these places that can see what’s happening, they will adapt and change-or the ”market” will ensure they die out. Their newspaper circulation will never reach the levels of the past, but they can thrive in a changed niche.
For an update on how well folks in hedge funds are doing, please don’t miss the current dead-tree Vanity Fair, which has an article about the $10,000,000 Greenwich, CT, houses being torn down by hedge fund “managers,” who replace them with $20,000,000 monstrosities.
Next time the GOP accuses John Edwards or another Democrat of class war, my answer: “Fuck, yeah!”
wow. thank you, Jane. I disagree with Billmon’s approach, and not just because I don’t share his hatred of the NYT. What Billmon advocates is that the press voluntarily censor itself by declining to publish stories of public interest, even of abuses of power by government, merely because they might allow Rove to throw red meat to the rightwingnutjobs. What???
Christy says,
I said this on the media panel I did at YKos, but I’m going to say it again, because it bears repeating: the right wingnuts want the media to function as Pravda did for the old Soviet regime %u2014 echoing only what the State has sanctioned as “news for the masses.” What does the left wing want? We want them to do their jobs, tell the truth, and report the facts. That’s it, plain and simple.
This are two very different views of the responsibility of a free and independent press, and they are not compatible.
There were several reason why the NYT, LATimes, WSJ and WaPo should have published the stories about the tracking of financial flows:
1. Although information that we were doing so was common knowleddged, readily available from multiiple public sources and repeatedly talked [bragged] about by the Administration itself, including testimony to Congress, it was not commonly known that those involved in the program had had serious concerns about its scope and implementation. sound familiar?
2. Although there was little disagreement about the need for swift action in the days/weeks immediately following 9/11, there was time afterward to come up with better procedures to ensure proper oversight and limitations to avoid abuse — and in fact, Congress had done that in the Patriot Act and elsewhere, but the Administration did not appear to be following those rules. sound familiar.
3. It was news itself that at least 20 different sources familiar with the program were concerned enought about the way it is being managed/overseen that they chose to talk about it. These are whistleblowers, folks.
Once again, the main story is the same story we’ve heard before; we have an Administration that isn’t willing to follow the law or deal honestly with Congress or the American people. And they’re screwing up yet another program while bragging that they’re doiing a heckava job. This is what the stories tell us.
the fact that we here aren’t surprised by this story is not the point. The main theme is important and needs to be told to the American people. And I’d remind the NYT bashers that they bashed the NYT for holding the NSA program for a year. What would the response be if, a year from now, they found out that the NYT had held this story for a year instead of publishing it?
Bashing the NYT at this point is irresponsible. People can like it or hate it, but on this issue, the NYT did the right thing and we should defending not only their right to do this but the fact that they did it.
The NYT is not the enemy, here, folks. Know your friends.
Of course Ann Coulter’s voter fraud got no traction with the “mainstream.” They love her.
It has fallen to us as responsible journalists to fight back.
Does the phrase “by any means necessary” make your little heart go pit-a-pat?
Blogistan must endeavor to pants these creeps 24/7. There’s tons of ammo out there, from the homophobes gay children (they all have at least one) to Bennett’s S&M obsession to all manner of other “peccadillos.”
To put it as delicately as I can we are obliged to rip off their heads and shit down their necks.
Hope you’re all having a lovely holiday weekend.
Re Jane’s ? @ #37:
“— why should the NYT think that THIS would be the thing that sent the wingnuts over the edge? They’re always right there on the precipice anyway……”
I imagine what is happening in the functional part of the GOP control machinery right now is a sense of desperation. Their precious wall protecting their serial criminal activities and criminally negligent conduct of foreign, military and civil affairs is being exposed more and more to the naked eye. A majority of recently retired military, intelligence and foreign service officers not only diss, but outrageously condemn Bushco policies and activities. We don’t know how much feedback the WH and the GOP congress are actually getting from their more powerful - yet rational - financial supporters. But I suppose it is growing rapidly, and is worrisome.
The combination of a looming Dem sweep, an economy poised for rampant inflation, and plainly obvious - as opposed to highly visible - failure of our GWOT/Iraq/Afghanistan policies has them scampering for all the levers on their control machinery. I’ve never seen anything like this happen in early summer, even in 2004.
These people are friggin’ scared to death. OF US. The only alliance they seem to be able to make right now with the MSM is to attack the left blogroots and netroots movement. Unfortunately, they have the support of the DINOs in this.
These creeps are better at changing the subject than they are at follow-through. That has been obvious for some time now - at least to the left. But as more and more rational conservatives peel themselves away from Bushco - sort of like the people who quietly found reasons to leave Jonestown in the weeks and days before the end there - the Rove machine is searching everywhere for any way under the sun (make that any way under a rock) to hold their fantasy together.
We’ve been creating a lot of metaphors to describe this unprecedented assault on democracy, but we need even better ones. I’m sorry, I haven’t thought of what they might be, but the new metaphors should reach out to conservatives concerned about America’s financial strength, morality and long-term military viability.
Sharkbabe is right: “the utter physical destruction of our civilized nation” is absolutely what’s coming down the pike. (This already isn’t “America” any more, and I’m not celebrating the 4th…)
As for our smart children, more power to ‘em, and I hope they’re around to help forage and gather firewood, as I may be a little slow crawling out from under the wreckage. If I emerge at all, that is. Most of us probably won’t, and I think it’s worthwhile to accept that and move past it in our hearts. No matter what I do, I won’t “survive” being alive, either. THAT FREES ONE UP TO FIGHT, you know, as well as enabling living life to its fullest.
We’re at an astonishingly new and critical juncture in human evolution that I wish more bloggers were tuned into — politics is a bunch of monkeys arguing in a barrel going over the falls — but all we really need are a handful of elders to tell the story later, if it comes to that. Given the number of tough old birds out there, this is guaranteed, so rest easy.
Onward.
ck — there’s a very important lesson in that.
Senators often don’t get the cover or the feedback they need from us. We make a lot of assumptions that they will simply do the right thing or the Democratic/democratic thing.
But they do have to take a line and defend it, often without our help. I’ve gotten feedback from Levin’s office that said they’d been deluged with mail from the right on the FMA, but nothing from the left. It’s hard for a Senator to support their position in the face of overwhelming feedback in one direction. We have to give both sticks and carrots.
In Schumer’s case, he should hear when he’s done the right thing by his constituents — a thank-you for his positive, constructive votes. And then the stick, applied when necessary.
Right now Schumer is getting all stick. Not that he might not deserve it, but if he’s only gotten sticks and nary a carrot, he’s going to begin to think “screw it”. Would make it too easy for him to simply hide out for the duration in DC (like Lieberman) rather than visit his constituents during his term.
self moderating -
omg, didn’t realize it was Rayne I was quoting at 62 above - in light of their sitting on the NSA story for a year, maybe you are right, maybe the chickenshits are sitting on something “bigger” - then print it, print it now !!!
but really, what is left to expose ? we are talking about Cheney/Addington for goodness sakes -
The Repubs have so many people whoring for them, even a lot of Dems, and people who ought to know better. At NASA for example they are scrapping a bunch of real science projects to go to the moon. So they are setting up grants for lunar science projects, to bribe people into saying that it’s interesting exploration. And they put their corporate buddies in charge of the science committees to make sure their BS sounds legitimate.
Would it be better with Dems in charge? Under Clinton we got the space station, another huge project that yielded nothing.
How can you expect hedge fund managers to live in slummy $10,000,000 houses? Oh, the indignity of it all!!!
undecided #60
I agree completely. There is more there. Was it not Abu Gonzalaz who said “Program(s)”
Smack them down now over a legal program that is taught in any new employee orientation in the banking industry. Several banking employees called our local Air America station this week stating that the aspects of the SWIFT program was part of their employee training.
There is more there…..
“The NYT is not the enemy, here, folks. Know your friends.”
I know my friends, and they’re right here. The NYT is, and always has been, the enemy.
Read “Straight News” by Edward Alwood for some of the reasons why.
The NYT has no interest in disseminating the Truth.
They have an enormous interest in controilling the Truth.
It is absolutely essential to punish organs like the New York Times that have gotten so far off track, drive down their circulation and ad revenue. That is how you get their attention.
Their business model is faltering and they know it; they know it because their numbers are down (actually the NYT is one of the few managing to hold on). Now is the time.
We saw an amazing transformation in our local paper a year or so ago, a (formerly) right-wing rag in a 75% Kerry town. Their circ was falling and I wrote the CEO, having subscribed for decades, telling her of my disgust in some detail and that I was cutting them out of my life, don’t need ‘em anymore, there are alternatives like the blogs. That drives them batshit because they know something’s up but understanding is just out of reach.
.
Jane, have you heard anything about a Marine recruiter attacking a demonstrator outside his office with a baseball bat last Wednesday in New Haven, CT? Here’s a link:
http://www.teambio.org/2006/07.....nstrators/
John @ 69
I pray you change your mind and see this is the very time to celebrate the Fourth ! We are presently living under socio-political conditions that so closely mirror those of the Founders - am in no way predicting outcome, but hope you’ll get your hands on a copy of The Declaration of Independence and celebrate their bravery and sacrifice
Dang - I left off the signing statement on my history part.
Add an H
H Signing Statement President signs the DTA, but with one of his little signing statements:
“The executive branch shall construe Title X in Division A of the Act, relating to detainees, in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President to supervise the unitary executive branch and as Commander in Chief and consistent with the constitutional limitations on the judicial power, which will assist in achieving the shared objective of the Congress and the President, evidenced in Title X, of protecting the American people from further terrorist attacks.”
Emph added.
onward
II Roadblocks to Judicial Review.
So with the history, what roadblocks did the Hamdan case face in even being heard by the Court?
A. Comity/Ripeness. Sometimes, the “right” to do things overlaps - whether between countries, states or even branches of government. Think of it like parents. When one parent has told the kids they can or cannot do something, lots of times good parents, who disagree, stil don’t pick a fight and have it out in front of the kids, or don’t overrule and override the other’s authority “just because they can” without a good reason.
Also, sometimes you are pretty sure something is a very bad idea and about to be a disaster, but you still fell obligated to wait it out and see if it will turn out just as badly as you expect, before you intervene. Like, say Dad brings home supersoakers with turbocharged sprays and backpacks for extra water source ammo. Mom thinks - oooooo, bad idea. Does mom confiscate the supersoakers right now - or does mom wait to see if it all turns out ok, with the kids only using them carefully and responsibly and outside, bc dad says, “don’t worry, I’ll be in charge and make sure that they don’t put the neighbor kid’s eye out or ruin the 25 mill Monet hanging in the hall. Relax.”
Gov tried that with the Court - com’on, “Dad said” and com’on, how do you know we’ll do the wrong thing with the turbocharged super soakers, wait and see, if we ruin the Monet, spank us THEN, don’t take away our toys NOW (aka the “we really will feed the puppy and walk it every day, just wait and see” argument).
Court didn’t buy it. Sometimes mom and dad have to fight, even in front of the kids, and sometimes, like when there is a supersoaker law that says turbo charged supersoakers are illegal, Dad’s just got no d*mn business bringing them home to start with.
So, the court “declines” Gov’s invitation to stay out of it, and says they don’t have to wait for the Great Turbo Charged Super Soaker Incident of 2006 to occur before ruling, esp when the law says you can’t have turbo charged super soakers at all.
B. Presidential Signing Statment. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The President’s statement on how the court’s have constitutional limits to review a CICs actions and the Executive gets to “interpret” laws exclusively and look ma, I said “unitary Executive” and . . . Apparently that “statement” — more of a soliloquy. How much does the majority of the Court care about the Executive Signing Statemetn as either a limitation of Congress’ ability to make the laws or the Courts’ abilities to interpret the laws? How much ink will 0 cents buy Yoo? Some of the dissenters try mouth to mouth on this, but its a channel clicking moment.
C. DTA Affect on Pending Habeas Cases This was the one that Graham/Kly pushed, Gov pushed and Scalia wrote about at length, and Alito and Thomas joined. Arguments made back and forth, some pretty complex, but the jist from the majority is this: 1005(h) only made the DTA applicable to pending e-2 and e-3 cases, so it is pretty clear that by skipping over e-1 cases, they didn’t really try to strip our jurisdiction
We’ll leave for another day whether Congress actually CAN strip our jurisdiction once attached or whether, if we feel like a game of strip poker some evening, we can strip ourselves. For now, most of us don’t feel like it and Congress only called this is as regular Texas Hold em, not strip poker. Whether they can change it to strip poker over our objection part way through the game- that may come up another day. Today, we’re just splayig regular poker, boys.
D. Conventions and Eisentrager Issue - Can Court Fashion Relief? As to Geneva Conventions (only the GCs, not UCMJ issues that come up separately) issues, Gov also raised (and Roberts/DCCir court bought) that even if Geneva Conventions applied, the Court was still not an appropriate review mechanism. There had been an earlier case, the Eisentrager case,where a footnote had mentioned that the responsibility for the observance and enforcment of rights is “upon political and military authorities” and the rights of alien enemies are vindicated “only through protests and intervention of protecting powers as the rights of our citizens against foreign governments are vindicated only by Presidential inervention”
Eisentrager arose under the 1929 Conventions, not the current 1949 Conventions. In Eisentrager, German nationals challenged convictions for war crimes made by a military tribunal and argued it did not provide the procedural protections that would have existed for courts-martial for Amerian soldiers. The Court reviewed the procedures, held that they did not have prejudicial disparity from the procedures that an American soldier would have been subject to in a court-martial proceeding, an upheld the convictions.
The Eisentrager footnote is buried and has been deemed by some to mean that where the Geneva Conventions give a right, only the Congress and Executive can enforce those rights, not courts. That is by no means the uniform understanding, but the majority of the Court, (while IMO, but not as Imman would say overtly” *g* - making it pretty clear that such an interpretation of the Eisentrager footnote is questionable in light of its dicta function and the evolution of both the COnventions and other Congressional statutes since then) say - hey, whether or not we can enforce the Geneva Conventions or not is not the question before us today- that question is whether or not they are a part of the “law of war” which is incorporated by reference into the UCMJ - they are.
Since the UCMJ - a Congressional statute - talks about the President’s powers in terms of the laws of war, the Court says even if the Eisentrager footnote means what Gov says it means, it doesn’t matter bc the Court is not being asked to give a remedy to a Plaintiff based on a Conventions violation - they are being asked to interpret, under the UCMJ statute, whether the Conventions are part of the law of war that the UCMJ applies as a limit on the President’s powers - the majority of the Court says, Absolutely. Congress has made the President subject to the Geneva Conventions as a part of the laws of war references under the UCMJ. The court then pretty much says - we are now just being asked whether the Nov. 13 commissions created by the President are legal under, among other things, the UCMJ and we are not being asked to give a remedy for their illegality. So we don’t have to deal with the Eisentrager footnote — yet.
[A hard concept for non-lawyers is why, when the Sup Court has a case before it, it doesn’t just decide everything it can think of - but the rules work in the opposite direction. Generally, the Sup Ct tries hard not to legislate and give advisory opinions. It tries to limit its holdings to the narrowest grounds - the fewest things it HAS to decide to dispose of the case. This is where Kennedy’s abstention for a couple of sections of Stevens opinion comes in - there are things Stevens does that Kennedy feels he doesn’t have to join in on to dispose of the case in front of the court - not that they may not come up later and need to be decided, but just that they don’t have to be decided today to resolve the current question in the current case. Whether that means he agrees or disagrees with Stevens - if that case were in front of them - is up for grabs. You can interpret from language, but he doesn’t commit.]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Those were the biggies, but you have to realize that there were roadblocks before you got to this point that some Justices were still tender about - like the fact that Scalia nd Thomas never really liked the Rasul case that granted habeas jurisdiction to start with.
None of the foregoing have much to do with the actual holdings and legal analysis - they have to do with whether the Court CAN step in and it does go beyond the simple grant of jurisdiction to Article III courts to hear lots of cases.
So a lot of the 5-3 has to do with when and how the Justices feel a court should act, not a determination of whether or not they think the Executive’s actions are good or proper. And yes, I have bite marks in my tongue as I type that. *g*
Ed*ard Teller 69 — I imagine what is happening in the functional part of the GOP control machinery right now is a sense of desperation. Their precious wall protecting their serial criminal activities and criminally negligent conduct of foreign, military and civil affairs is being exposed more and more to the naked eye. A majority of recently retired military, intelligence and foreign service officers not only diss, but outrageously condemn Bushco policies and activities. We don’t know how much feedback the WH and the GOP congress are actually getting from their more powerful — yet rational — financial supporters. But I suppose it is growing rapidly, and is worrisome.
Absolutely, All the more reason to print the story. Or as TRex famously said, ATTACK ATTACK ATTAAAAACKKKK!!!
I think it’s important to be vigilant about asking how a failed president and adminsitartion can protect America.
Bush ratings are down, people will be more receptive to listening, just attack with the litany of failures that define the adminstration and offer alternatives.
Don’t stop until the enemy within is defeated.