Are they trying to impress the rubes, or are they trying to chill honest reporting?

rootz

At least under those guys, Malkin would be wrapped from head to foot in a burkha and forced to SHUT THE FUCK UP and go sit quietly in another part of the house.

It would almost be worth it.

And Coulter, too.

Well, maybe.

Honey, I think you mean “secret” programs in the first sentence, unless you are now inventing your own language, now that you’re a big star and all.

xo

And would look great in a burka.

just sayin’

Listen, I just saw the picture of what you blogger-losers look like in the New York Times.

I am outta here. I want to hang out with hotties like Michelle Malkin, Jonah Golberg and Hugh Hewitt.

-GSD

I’m on a little self-confidence kick here, Blank Kludge started it, and now I’m out of control.

… including some amateurish and sophomoric manipulations of World War Two propaganda flyers.

You might consider them amatuerish and sophomoric, but they’re sarcastic efforts to mock the Malkins of the world, not something serious made up by them. As the Shakes link notes:

Former Army Ranger turned antiwar comic book artist Wright had what he calls a moment of clarity after participating in the U.S.’s 1989 invasion of Panama. Feeling that media coverage was blatantly pro-war, but that the post-invasion results for Panama were far from positive, he offers this as a (belated) warning against war on Iraq. Reworking American propaganda posters from WWI and WWII, Wright reveals his satiric take on current events: one poster reads, “Millions of troops are on the move…All To Protect Your Oil Supply! Is your SUV really worth their lives?” In another, a girl sitting in her father’s lap asks, “Daddy, why don’t YOU or any of your friends from ENRON have to go to war?” And many are messages from the Orwellian-sounding “Ministry of Homeland Security”: The Statue of Liberty points to the onlooker and commands, “You! Stop Asking Questions! You’re Either With U.S. or You’re With The TERRORISTS!” The antiwar contingent will read these and weep, rather than laugh. (Publisher’s Weekly)

Personally, I think they’re damn funny.

I am outta here. I want to hang out with hotties like Michelle Malkin, Jonah Golberg and Hugh Hewitt.

I could totally score with her if that’s the competition.

GSD

you mean that wasn’t Jonal in the pic? I thought he was there!

z

But tell me TRex, how do you really feel?

Using your namesake’s sharp teeth on oh-so-worthy targets. Nice post.

Honey, I think you mean “secret” programs in the first sentence

Thanks, Zenn! Got it!

Olberman has clips from the SWIFT organization’s website and magazine stating that they cooperate with governments in investigations, and clip after clip showing our beloved leader bragging about his closing down terrorist fund flows. Kind of makes me wonder just how come it took so long to figure this one out.

Gosh that’s two HTML tags in a week. Who says you can’t teach an old(ish) dog new(ish) tricks? Woof!

Time for bed, pups and puppettes, play nice with TRex. He bites.

play nice with TRex. He bites.

Only if you’re asking for it.

I bite too, but only in the colloquial sense…

MM, AC, Lil Debbie, Noron, and Ole 60 Grit sitting silently, forced to shut the fuck up. I would pay to see that.

Yikes, the fickle nature of the Bush cultists is exactly what I was thinking about earlier today. The poor old Grey Lady carried their foul, parasite-ridden water in the runup to the failed Bush Iraq adventure, and where’s their thanks? Not only are these people hopelessly romantic, with their notions of lifting up the Middle East by sheer dint of belief in the notion of democracy as a bulk cargo easily unloaded on distant shores, but they’re also extraordinarily mercurial and adolescent in the depth of their affections.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Otto Man 8, further down that link you’ll see that Malkin and co. did make some attempts of their own at reworking the WWII posters. Those are the “amateurish and sophomoric” posters TRex is referring to, not Wright’s work.

The poor Bush/Rove and the Bushbots. They must feel like they are in a zombie movie. Enemies everywhere. A never ending parda that they must keep firing upon, minute by minute or else they are doomed.

That paranoid lifestyle is going to catch up on them one of these days.

-GSD

parda=parade.

Time to go to bed.

-GSD

I was just watching Olberman, who for some reason (I assume contractual) had dingbat O’Donnell on to discuss this. Apparently JD Hayworth is introducing a resolution tomorrow condemning the media for publishing “classified” information. You think Nancy Pelosi can marshal a simple walkout on the grounds that they have better f*&%$#ing things to do?

As to this post, and the Bushies’ ingratitude to the NYT: don’t forget Tom Friedman. If the Moustache of Understanding hadn’t been there to give “intellectual” cover to the “liberal” Establishment media types for supporting the war, Junior may not have been able to sell it, even with Judy’s help.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to lay my hands on that Judy Miller “Patsy and Edina go to Iraq” photo and I just can’t find it. You know, the one where she’s all dressed up in her desert gear, talking with some soldier boy….it is just too good. If I ever find it again, TRex, we must get much mileage out of it.

OBTW, most excellent post.

Suskind’s book out has some interesting post-medal takes from Tenet as to information access and transparency.

It’s all at the end – not that I’ve finished. Sometimes, though, I just open a book and read the chapter that it opens at, or go to the end and read backwards for a chapter or two= not bottom of page to top of page backwards, but last page, then next to last, then on through first – you see things a bit differently.

I posted at Huffpo on the NYT issue, but the fact remains for all these stories – it is not news to ANYONE that calls are intercepted, people are followed, transactions are audited, etc. What idiot does not think those things are going on? The only “news” coming out is that those things are going on with no supervision, no oversight, no warrants, etc. All unilaterally run by the Exec Branch – that same crew who just added losing millions of vets data to losing billions of taxpayers dollars. As per the historians – if the founding fathers looked at George Washington and said: Govt needs check and balances – it is humbling to think how they may have structured our govt if they had been looking, instead, at Cheney or GWB.

FWIW.

btw, Suskind closes out with some meandering thoughts on ends and means and justification of means by importance of ends – and hopeless muddles resulting from failure to define the ends being sought with sufficient clarity to keep the means from becoming untethered, born of “unexamined assumptions” He mentions the loss of strength that finds the west when it pursues goals militarily but immorally. He quotes Deutoronomy 16:20 “Justice, Justice, This you must pursue.” and goes on to say:

“Justice – an overused word these days – is not mentioned twice, however, for added emphasis. Here Hebrew scholars agree – and they don’t agree on much – that it’s once for the means, and once for the ends. “

p348 OnePercentSolution

A final note from the same source. Suskind recounts meeting with William Sloane Coffin before Coffin’s death. Coffin looks at Suskind and says:

“I never thought I’d live to see the day when old-fashioned journalism would be a form of civil disobedience.”

“At least under those guys, Malkin would be wrapped from head to foot in a burkha and forced to SHUT THE FUCK UP and go sit quietly in another part of the house.”

And I would be beheaded.

…so (for now): not worth it.

Excellent post. This is quite a rare and sensational treat, seeing a young pundit bloom.

Grafix credit?

In moderation, which I always want to write as immoderation.

Enjoy CT and being in the thick of the fight Jane.

“Dick Cheney and Condi Rice both pointed to Mata Whori Miller’s articles as justifications for their posture toward Iraq in 2002.”

That is one of the most outrageous, manipulative deceptions this maladministration has perpetrated on the American people. “Leak information” to gullible, airheaded reporters–feed them false “facts”–and then when they publish it like good stenographers, use their publications as media “sources” for the lies that you wished to propagate. Refer to their published reports as evidence of the “truth” of your factual claims. Utter contempt both for their media shills and their audience.

This is all part of the Rove “The Weasel” 2006 campaign swiftboating.

Doesn’t have anything to do with reality since they make their own fantasy reality! Ya know, up is down, in is out, stupid is smart, that kinda thing.

The Weasel and his pet Monkey Junior have worn out their welcome (if they were ever welcome at anything but a wingnut revival), and this stuff ain’t gonna sell anymore.

Won’t stop ‘em from trying, but ain’t nobody buying!

Seriously though, the name of the game for these guys is all offense, all the time.

While we’re distracted with this, they’re off making some other atrocity possible.

They do it each day, and while we’re ranting (rightfully) about one thing (NY Times nonsense) they’re sliding something else past the public (Net Neutrality/Signing Statements/Iraq).

I reread your post from the other night TRex. The one about never playing defense. It really is an important lesson. Unfortunately, switching the debate is tough, especially against the mighty wurlizter which stirs up and creates the “issue of the day”.

Just remember it’s just to stir up the base, demonize the opponent, and facilliate sleight of hand.

After all, if a debate on the merits is allowed to proceed, they lose.

Hey Mary! You’ve been posting such great stuff recently – but then you always do! just wanted to thank you for all of the great info!

Just got back from seeing “Who Killed the Electric Car?”

If they didn’t have optimistic people at the end, it would make you want to explode. It’s hard to believe that such an excellent film would follow “An Inconvenient Truth,” but it has. Please go see it when it comes to your area.

The thing about the Taliban is they were repressive medieval theocrats – but they were honest repressive medieval theocrats. No exceptions, not even for the leaders.

Jim
Notice Noron’s expression when Olberman finished her piece off with a rebuke to BushCo about the quality of info they hand out? She went blank (revert to type)…

OT, via dKos: You probably all know already that there’s a movement afoot to have individual states introduce impeachment proceedings in Congress, which is permissible under its rules.

Several states have been moving in that direction, and one of them is California – and right now they are gathering petition signatures online. So California Firepups, if you are so moved, please sign and pass the link on to anyone else you know in our fair state. I’ll post the link on the Roots list as well.

Oh, P.S. – the deadline for signatures is Friday!

Siun – you are a gem – thanksmuch. Now that I have mastered cut and paste, I’m a menace.

Night all – I’m off to try to shed some crankiness with sleep.

Jane #25 – damn, where have I seen that? If I find it I will so let you know.

Watching the late showing of Countdown, I think perhaps Keith O. has delivered his best-ever slapdown of Bill O’Reilly. It’s nice to see soneone who so enjoys his work.

Jane @ 25
This one?
http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.co…..publi.html

If anyone missed KO’s “factor fiction” tonite, FIND IT!

Man, I’m laughing a lot tonight.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to lay my hands on that Judy Miller “Patsy and Edina go to Iraq” photo and I just can’t find it.

Here it is:

http://www.tnr.com/graphics200…..miller.jpg

WaPoO chats tomorrow, questions accepted right now if you’re so inclined….

WH Reporter Michael Fletcher at 11 eastern
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00717.html

Gwen Ifill at Noon:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00469.html

Dana Priest on National Security at 2pm:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01001.html

Help push progressive questions at MSM journalists — oh, and also Gwen!

Judy of the desert?

I’ll find a closer shot. Just wait.

Hey Jane…

Is THIS the picture you’re talking about? I love the title of the article as well… “The New Republic Licks Judy Miller’s Combat Boots!”

I’m a pretty good web sleuth so if that’s not the pic you’re talking about, give me a description and I’ll root around for it.

newtonusr, TRex — yep, that’s the one. Thanks, I needed that for my collection.

Newtonusr… Jinx!

Or at least almost jinx. You’re a bit faster unless you beat me to the gun because I was typing the whole “a href=” thingey. :-)

And TRex. Great stuff as usual.

Whoops! Thanks, Leslie.

AAARRGGGHHH

Again the mad dog besmirshes the weasel family by smearing us with the Rove brush!
Of course the NYT is gonna get slammed by the wackos on the right…while leaving the WSJ the hell alone. I guess the Times shoulda taken those full page ads from Haliburton lauding the administration move to get the WMD’s…er, those Osama connections…no, no, wait…o yes freedom for Iraq—-right after the civil war.
What a fucking mess to clean up after a dry drunk!

Great piece TRex!
Nate
You know how sometimes you save a link for no good reason…
Not faster – just more packrat.

Ian Welsh #35

“but they [the Taliban] were honest repressive medieval theocrats.”

Well, as long as they were honest murderous thugs, that makes all the difference.

This isn’t the “Judy” photo Jane was looking for, but it’s kind of interesting:

http://www.oldmatador.com/imag….._small.jpg

Here’s another one:

http://www.bartcop.com/judith-miller-pail.jpg

neurophius 51, that will make BobbyG’s day, no, week. He has quite a thing for MoDo, but it’s only physical.

fartsinsleep at 48:

AAARRGGGHHH…Again the mad dog besmirshes the weasel family by smearing us with the Rove brush!

If the shoe fits or the brush smears…*g*

Without digesting the post, or reading the comments –

Snark in the face of Tyranny — is like . . .

is like . . .

is like Lenny Bruce trying to stand down the 1941 Blitzkrieg, like the Tienanmen square dude . . .

But the Blitz doesn’t slow down for nuttin’ — so the best you can hope for is your bones jammin’ the treads on a lead tank.

So what I’m sayin’ is — frontal assault with flame throwers and hand grenades is the only way we can stop these fuckers . . .

Snark is great, for maintaining morale among the faithful, and drawing in recruits . . .

But beyond that, it will win zip nada . . .

neurophius @ 51, 52
All your antidepressants are belong to us. Jesus!

And then there’s this, from The Heretik:

http://images.google.com/imgre…..f&sa=G

newtonusr at 9:59 p.m.:

I’ll stop now. I promise.

mad dogs -54
well that’ll just mean more dirt baths to try to get that rovian stench off of the clan.
gawd, the world is going to hell in a hand basket and all i can do is engage in silliness…but it saves a lot of lives ’cause otherwise you’d find me in a tower witha stolen rifle making incoherent statments.
pass the prozac

[quote]New York Times reporter Judith Miller played a highly unusual role in an Army unit assigned to search for dangerous Iraqi weapons, according to U.S. military officials, prompting criticism that the unit was turned into what one official called a “rogue operation.”

More than a half-dozen military officers said that Miller acted as a middleman between the Army unit with which she was embedded and Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi, on one occasion accompanying Army officers to Chalabi’s headquarters, where they took custody of Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law. She also sat in on the initial debriefing of the son-in-law, these sources say.

Since interrogating Iraqis was not the mission of the unit, these officials said, it became a “Judith Miller team,” in the words of one officer close to the situation.[/quote]

from here.

It’s been a weird couple of years, hasn’t it?

The wingnuts defended Jeff Gannon as a journalist and now they want (errr … demand) that the NY Times be tried for treason. That about sums up their journalism litmus test.

It defies parody.

OBTW, most excellent post.

Thank ya berrymussshhh.

I still get such a kick out of posting here. Something about that feeling of counting down, hitting ‘Publish’, and knowing that your words are going straight to so many remarkable minds, all at once. It gives me goosebumps. It’s the closest thing to mental telepathy that technology has produced.

Sometimes I wish I could hear the parts where people actually laugh out loud, though.

Snark is great, for maintaining morale among the faithful, and drawing in recruits . . .

Wrong.

The most powerful thing that a person can possibly do is make the enemy look ridiculous in the eyes of the populace.

You can have a revolution without ever firing a shot.

thinking of Judith Miller on her WMD snipe hunt with her own personal military unit running around just to the east, north, south and west of Baghdad, is making me tired. I am turning in.

Nice job, TRex.

G’night, everyone.

hmmmm … no one but Reuters is reporting the “chemical” missile which Reuters say Al Aqsa is claiming and Reuters seems to be downplaying that report now (on page 3 of their latest and coupled with an Israeli claim that no such weapon was fired at their forces)

So how is it ok for Israel to simply round up almost the whole duly elected government of Palestine and announce the planned assasination of the head of Hamas and other Hamas leaders living in Syria – Israel now claims the right to attack them there (per the Times of India) so we will soon have Israel not simply flying over the Syrian presidential palace but apparently attacking there.

When do the Palestinians get the right of self-defense which the WH confirmed again today for the Israelis?

…seriously OT but very seriously: please let your senators know it’s

NOT OKAY TO SLAUGHTER the WILD MUSTANG

EVER!!!!!

See the Huffpost story on Senate traitor Conrad Burns who is up to his old sleazey tricks again selling out to devil cattle ranchers. This must be stopped and the only way is to write or call or email your senate people and tell them NO!!! It is rider #142 attached to the Federal Appropriations Bill HR 4848.

NO SLAUGHTER OF WILD MUSTANG AND BURROS – NOT NOW

NOT EVER

PS I had hoped Burns would be caught up in the Abramoff sting and thrown out of the Senate

Spiderpaws:

After seeing the Burns/Tester debate the other night, I think there’s a good thing that Burns will get beat in November and thrown out in January. Hope that is not too late for your wild horses.

there’s a good chance

So if the NYT rehires Judi, will Rove call off the dogs?

No?

Sorry, Bill. I tried.

… the same New York Times that hyped North Korean missile launch for a week, only to come tiptoing in with this weak stuff yesterday? How wike a sewpent’s toof, indeed. (h/t Defense Tech, by way of TruthDig)

So if the NYT rehires Judi, will Rove call off the dogs?

That sooooo makes me wish I worked at the Times, just so I could nail my coworkers like this:

Rex emerges from the elevator, ashen faced, looking blankly around the news room.

“What is it, Rex? You look awful.”

“Those stupid fucks are re-hiring Judy Miller. She’s going to be Assistant Editor.”

Can you imagine the facial expressions?

“Okay, they’re not. Just kidding. Who wants to order a pizza?”

Oh, TRex, that is evil. I like it.

Seriously, I think I’m going to call the news desk tomorrow and ask for a statement on Pinch and Keller’s decision to rehire Judy. See if I can make the person who answers the phone drop the receiver.

Hey, Jane — is this the photo you’re looking for?

I found it at HuffPo, in this article about her bogus “security clearance.” Entertaining nugget attached to the photo:

(Incidentally, Col. McPhee would not see her when she returned to Baghdad in early June 2003, seeking a re-negotiated, less restrictive, non-disclosure agreement; and she had to leave the country. Shortly after that, her first known meeting with Libby related to Plame occurred on June 23.)

TRex, you naughty boy. *g*

I should say I’m Matt Drudge.

Morpheus is descending with a vengeance . . . ‘night, all.

#69….TOOO LATE! …we can’t wait for that…think of the last wild mustang IN THE WORLD gallopping free then picture it in dog food cans…the best meat will become steaks served to Tokyo diners.
Please don’t let these fine horses down everyone, such a small thing to make this call…every time animal rights people think the horses are safe CONRAD BURNS SNEAKS IT BACK INTO SOME BILL!!! AAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Had a terrible week working on several saves and losing most of them – then this…GG bridge meet spiderpaws…good bye cruel world!

By now I would imagine the receiver is a strap on….. head set.
I would love to hear the call though. TRex your posts are like a 45, sun studios on one side and motown on the other.

Dang, not quick enough. Next time I’ll tell my wife to wait on help with that backup while I deal with more important things. Or maybe not… *g*

;(

By now I would imagine the receiver is a strap on… head set.

In that case, you could probably hear their head exploding. Neat!

(Oh, and just so you don’t think I missed the original double-entendre — Ewwww!)

meat will become steaks served to Tokyo diners….

not exactly Basacchi (sp?) Is what one says when ordering raw horse meat in Japaneese dinning. Was informed I was eating it in Fukuoka City once.

…please don’t tell me horsemeat stories…what I want to hear is just one of you firepups say “Yeah I’ll make that call” …

ok HR4848 will e-mail Conrad Burns.

I wonder what story the NYT has that Bushco is trying to get them to kill?

Just remember, spidey. November is almost right around the corner. Not everything these people have done to our world can be undone, but a lot of it can. Which is why we have to stay focused. Yes, feel the frustration and anguish, but reach for the hope that lies just beyond it.

And yes, I’ll make that call.

Hey, can you guess what sign I am?

spiderpaws
I’m in.

Aries !!! rhymes with Lamb

spider, i’m in too

Lamb that is

On a related topic, can someone tell me why “Time” magazine let Rove have a column in this week’s issue? Memo to “Time”: According to YOUR OWN MAGAZINE, Karl Rove leaked Valerie Plame’s identity to the press. To this day, he has not publicly admitted doing so, and there are still uncorrected denials out there from the White House. What’s more newsworthy? This story, or a puff piece on Teddy Roosevelt?

dear T-Rex,

There simply aren’t adequate words to properly thank you for your post.

Suffice it to say you managed to snap this old newspaper brat out of a three-day funk.

Kudos Kid! I owe you big time!

TRex your posts are like a 45, sun studios on one side and motown on the other.

Aw, thanks. I just saw this comment.

But you know what’s even better than Motown?

Stax/Volt.

TRex – lol that was a couple of posts back… attack attack!!!!

Frank Probst – Seeing Tom Delay on Hardball today was just as disturbing. There is no shame.

I was feeling pretty down today after Snowe-Dorgan failed to make it through committee… but I’m very inspired by Sen. Wyden, who put a hold on the bill. Net Neutrality is crucial if we’re going to keep places like FDL thriving. Please call Wyden to give him support and ask your senators to stand with him.

http://apoeticjustice.blogspot…..amlet.html

FOX TORTURE

http://apoeticjustice.blogspot…..bling.html

I got ya spider, and I’ve passed it on to my late-teen daughter. I’m guessing the entire US undergraduate population will have it by morning. These kids are good!

Dover Bitch – Can Wyden hold it in committee after a vote?

here’s the way this discussion MUST be presented

there is NO doubt, EVERYONE knew we monitor financial records and transactions in the search for terrorism

none

the president told us so himself, just days after we were attacked on September 11th

the swift peration has their own website, and every bit of this information is already public knowledge, already known by Americans, the world, and terrorists

THE ONLY NEW INFORMATION IN THIS NEW YORK TIMES REPORT IS THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING IT WITHOUT OVER SITE

that’s it

we REALLY NEED TO ALLOW THIS DISCUSSION TO GO IN THE DIRECTION, AND MAKE SURE WE MAKE IT CLEAR that the only thing that is new in this article is that there are no warrants for this activity

when we turn the tide of the discussion to these facts, there will be nothing but embarrassment for those that think the new York times did something wrong in this case

Giving credit where credit is due, this is a brilliant Republican attack. Even when the media itself is getting smeared, they can’t seem to call bullshit. Newsflash: This is your put-up or shut-up moment. If you blow this, your last shred of credibility will be gone. For once, please do us all a favor and step up to the damn plate.

The little devil on my shoulder is hoping this resolution passes, just to spite the Times. (How long did you guys sit on this one?) The little angel on my other shoulder (who’s way too optimistic at the moment) is hoping that the Times just sits back and waits a week and then throws out a whole bunch of slander lawsuits. (Statements made on the floor of Congress are off limits, of course, but I’d love to see a bunch of people get hit for spewing crap on Faux News. I can see them on the witness stand already: “You mean the stuff we say has to be TRUE?”)

Hi spider -

I’m in, too. Thanks for your concern and passion for the wild horses.

Eureka Springs, AR 102,

Here’s how mcjoan at kos explains it:

This hold is basically a signal of intent to filibuster. Holds generally are requests that any Senator can make that a bill or measure not be considered by the full Senate until certain issues in it are cleared up. It’s not officially in the Senate rules, and the majority leader can refuse it. If Stevens’s statement that he doesn’t have 60 votes is to be believed, then Wyden’s hold could keep this bill from the floor. We’ll just have to wait to see what negotiations that might be in the offing mean for the future of the telecommunications bill and net neutrality.

spiderpaws – some questions…
In reading the Bandera Bulletin piece:
Where is Montana on this (aside from Burns, of course)? Anyone ask Jon Tester?
Where’s the third slaughterhouse? Montana, maybe?

Senator Burns: “We’re gonna let’em shoot’em.”
Public: “With a 150 to 1 steer to wild horse ratio, why Mustangs and burros?”
Senator Burns: “The equine are more, how should I say this, sporting. We want to be fair, ya’know?”

marksb – Brilliant delegation brilliant.

Eureka Springs, AR says
June 28th, 2006 at 10:50 pm

Frank Probst – Seeing Tom Delay on Hardball today was just as disturbing. There is no shame.
———————————————————-
His “Valerie Plame wasn’t a CIA agent.” statement is going to bite him in the ass, methinks. As a general rule, I think it’s unwise to belittle CIA agents.

I cant tell you how many times Ive tried to lay my hands on that Judy Miller Patsy and Edina go to Iraq photo

Well, I can’t find it either, so I guess we’ll have to make do with
this.

TRex my second guess, Sagittarius.

Frank Hope you are right.

Dover Thanks. Thought McCains little resolution was a good one, very telling in and of itself, failing to pass.

Oh, Eureka, I thought you were telling me you were an Aries.

I am a pure Gemini.

I went the extra mile and got a real live twin as well.

I wanted to guess the twin sign, thought that was to high on a coincidence meter.

Knuckledragger at 11:00 p.m.

Wow! That’s better than the ones I came up with. It took me a minute to figure out whom Judy bears such a striking resemblance to.

So watching pundits bloviate on the television is disturbing? Thank god I’m completely deaf. I literally cannot watch that crap. the captioning is so far behind, they often go to commercial long before the text has caught up. Punditry on television is totally unknown to me. The last time I watched Pox News was, um, 2003.

*Sigh*

There was a time that the government actually condemned torture:

http://www.library.northwester…..207-03.jpg

They have a good collection of WWII Posters at this link: http://www.library.northwester…..i-posters/

I’m pretty sure this is where the Malkinites were getting their source material for their horrible photoshops.

I remember FDL once linked to a site that made up their own left-leaning world war ii posters. Anyone remember what that was? The difference is, I’m pretty sure they’re not copied, but original works.

neurophius,

my favorite judy, judy, judy fantasy involves her being confronted by a Miss Emma Peel, who shows up to declare, “I’ve come to take my hairstyle back, beeyotch!” Which is followed by some impressive martial arts moves…

I remember FDL once linked to a site that made up their own left-leaning world war ii posters. Anyone remember what that was? The difference is, I’m pretty sure they’re not copied, but original works.

http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/PhotoAlbum1.html

Awright, kids. Once again, thanks so much for coming. Have a good night.

Also here: http://www.cafepress.com/warposter

…millions of people around the world have rallied for the mustangs for a long time and most americans are outraged and have held back the implementation of this…but BLM (Bureau of Land Management) is hot to go, they stand to make money selling horses to slaughterhouses and it is their job to manage the land the horses are running on…they – like Fish and Game who this week in California gladly handed out traps to snare wild fox and encouraged people I know to shoot the foxes in the trap – could give a rats ass about anything living free on federal land…if only horses could work for Walmart maybe they’d have a chance…it’s mostly about cattle ranchers though – they want ALL THE RANGE for the fucking cows….thanks for caring – don’t forget your vows to call your senators

hi anjisan 117 -

I think you are asking about a link to the work of Micah Ian Wright – googling him brings up a lot of sites (and he’s really pissed off the Freepers – good work!)

Yep. Bingo. The Propaganda Remix Project. That was it. Wow, that was fast.

You know, sometimes being the local cohost for the Cheyenne, WY chapter of Drinking Liberally is about as lonely as being the president of the “Stretch Armstrong” fan club!

TRex: maybe you’re a Virgo with an Aries rising…there’s some Leo too, maybe Mars in Leo?

url for micah ian wright:

http://www.micahwright.com/

(who knew?)

have fun!

I’m so glad to re-discover micah wright and the PRP.. With my roommate moving out and me turning the room into an office, some of those will make pretty slick posters.

lmao Nate How many members? Meeting in the darkest bars?

Eww! and with that lovely lead-n photo of Karl and scooter’s beeatch maybe I should have said, “stretch monster” fan club…

Why would anyone believe that Judy M. did not know exactly what she was doing and for whom?

You know it, Eureka!

At least my mom reads the blog they provide me…

Well, the smallest group included myself, the largest meeting there were three of us…

zAmboni,

I remember seeing the first images of prisoners being taken to gitmo, with the explanation that they were so dangerous they had to be shackled, hooded and sedated.

I thought something about that seemed oddly overblown, and then I remembered my dad telling me about pulling duty at a POW camp at the Jaeger Kaserne in Garmisch-Partenkirchen (now part of the George C. Marshall Center). He told me about moving a prisoner, a colonel in the Waffen-SS. He said,”I had the rifle, and I was the one who was scared.” Funny what can set off one’s bullshit detector.

And if you ever happen to sit in the Airport Lounge, or Clud Nine as we locals refer to it, sometime you will here engines roaring as you gaze ou the large picture windows…

Only to see the maintenance man appear with a leaf blower on the runway…Cripes!

anjinsan -

good luck with the decorating – hope MIW gives you a smile…

firepups -

off to bed….hope you all have a good night and no one starts their day with Chertoff’s goons breaking down the door.

Letter From Bill Keller on The Times’s Banking Records Report

Dear Reader:

1) We have no reason to believe the program was illegal in any way.

2) We have every reason to believe it was effective at catching terrorists.

3) We ran the story anyway, screw you.

Bill Keller

Ok I’m starting to think I need to get out to Wyoming and see this for myself.. Only.. they do have microbrews, right? At least some Sierra Nevada Pale Ale?

oops, typing and drinking…liberally lol!

lessee, Cloud Nine, hear, and out, typos in that order1

being the president of the “Stretch Armstrong” fan club!

O.M.G.

Sometime I have to tell you about the Great Stretch Armstrong Massacre in my neighborhood when I was eight. It was horrible. We all simultaneously discovered that Stretch was filled with gelatinous red goo. After that, it was pretty much all over for him.

Nate – That is pathetic. Try listening to Ben Harpers Oppression before your next meeting. You know lots of folks are scared to speak up in communities like that. Keep up the good fight.

New Belgium, home of the illustrious Fat Tire, (of which I am currently imbibing), is located thirty minutes to the south…

Odells, which produces the wonderful Easy Street Wheat, is only a short drive as well.

Many beers out this way, yes…

Democrats and Liberals…no, sadly

T. Rex, I remember being six year old and watching my four year old brother eating the red goo out of his Stretch Monster after it had broken.

I still have nightmares…

Ooooooooooooo SOLD! I also agree with Eureka Springs. Small beginnings can lead to who knows what. And that’s it for me. Got an early upbetimes as usual. Goodnight all.

oh..and totally OT…

If any you live in the Bay Area and have the chance to wander around the shoulders of Mt. Tam, I hope you take the chance this week.

Many of the groves on the north side have this wonderful, earthy aroma today – forest pheromones in puberty.

The forest was alive with scent today – if you weren’t hugging trees before you came in, you would be when you left.

Hey – can anyone think of a photo op that would get Shrub to Mt. Tam this week. The forest pheromones would even get George to hug his first tree.*

(* and no, the ones Jeff Gannon tied him to before flogging don’t count. George didn’t get to choose ‘em – Jeff was topping.

That’s why George met Jeff in the Situation room.)

Was wondering who’s Stretch Armstrong? Was about to google him.

Yes, Eureka, maybe Ben Harper. Megadeth’s “The System Has Failed” just isn’t bringing them in.

But if worse comes to wors, I will resort to Abba. I’m not scared.

Wyo Nate — okay, I keep meaning to let my wife’s cousin in Cheyenne know about it. She’s older, but she’s pretty lively, and might appreciate some like-minded local people.

Some called Stretch an ordinary toy from the 70’s, other called him simply, “Hero”…

(pausing, verclempf, wiping tear)

kirk – ever camped at steep ravine ?

Wyo Nate,

Ever fly the “vomit comet” on Great Lakes (aka great mistakes)?

kirk murphy:

it smells pretty darn good up here in the santa cruz mts too.

TRex: just saw where you actually admit to being a Gem…just kidding! Was right on the Mercury angle tho – Gem & Virgo ruled by Mercury…but what is your ascendant? That will tell even more….

“Pox News” … heh heh

Abba! Now I need a chew toy.

…eating red gooo?…no wonder everyone has cancer

Redshift, no problem, really. I am actually enjoying the challenge, and she would be 100% welcome!

Great to talk to you guys, have to get up early.

Keep fightin the good fight.

And BTW, Stretch Monster was a scary MF, I recommend a google image search!

Night!

And here is why it is such a brilliant Rep attack: simple and logical – What gives NYT a “get out of Jail Free” card for disclosing the details of a legal and classified spying program?

Despite the anti-Plame counter-frame ‘”everyone knew” people were looking at financial records since Bush said so’, I”m not sure that deals with the important question; What public knowledge was there of the specific SWIFT system monitoring program? Haven’t googled yet but pretty unlikely I’ll find any old articles describing it in same breath as spying.

Why else? The call for indictment by many (see King) is being framed as different than other previous disclosures that could “arguably” have legality implications. They are saying this disclosure is clearly over the edge and they may have a very strong point.

If the want to see the hurdles to just counter-framing see:
http://patterico.com/2006/06/2…..ient-post/
I don’t know the blogger – just found it via search. Pretty straightforward logic, similar to: “if you walk up to a drug dealer on a corner and point/say “don’t you see that undercover cop over there?” you might get arrested, even if you are a reporter. Counter-frame failure: ‘well, everyone knows already that there are undercover cops, in general, so I really didn’t disclose anything new…’ Doesn’t smell so good.

So it seems the critical issue on which Miller has placed a very high-stakes bet is this – is the program legal? If so, and in the face of multiple requests from appropriate officials, the NYT disclosed a classified program, the defense of ‘I thought about it a lot before I decided to ignore the request’ may be thin ice.

Maybe Miller expects to be shielded by the desire to protect other secrets in court, but if the program is discreet and totally blown he might want to start a legal defense fund…

Anyone have ANY proof that the program is illegal?

Don’t assume that any side’s (including your own) hyperbolic criticisms or counters are well founded – the link to Cheney’s interview is interesting as it will be a major exhibit in the upcoming “He Lied” debate. Many delibeate, cautious and guarded statements that do not resemble the wild accusations often bandied about. ANY attacker who makes wild, false charges will ultimately have it reflect poorly on the twister’s team. Please read the link for factual accuracy in future attacks.

My spin agitator is always primed to wash out BS. Any factual information to shine a light is appreciated.

Oops, left to soon,

Great Lakes, Yes, I flew that once to the old Stapleton airport in Denver, I believe.

Also, got tanked with the CEO at the Cheyenne airport. What a great guy! His economics were a little to Friedman for me, Marty, Milton, its all the same!

Night, everyone!

Nite Nate!

#159: Next question, please.

Terrorist funds-tracking no secret, some say
Cite White House boasts of tighter monitoring system
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | June 28, 2006
WASHINGTON — News reports disclosing the Bush administration’s use of a special bank surveillance program to track terrorist financing spurred outrage in the White House and on Capitol Hill, but some specialists pointed out yesterday that the government itself has publicly discussed its stepped-up efforts to monitor terrorist finances since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

But a search of public records — government documents posted on the Internet, congressional testimony, guidelines for bank examiners, and even an executive order President Bush signed in September 2001 — describe how US authorities have openly sought new tools to track terrorist financing since 2001. That includes getting access to information about terrorist-linked wire transfers and other transactions, including those that travel through SWIFT.
……
“There have been public references to SWIFT before,” said Roger Cressey, a senior White House counterterrorism official until 2003. “The White House is overreaching when they say [The New York Times committed] a crime against the war on terror. It has been in the public domain before.”

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/co…..bout_leaks

1976, they introduced their new hero, Stretch Armstrong, to the
world, and the youth of America responded.

http://www.bigredtoybox.com/ar…..ndex.shtml

ok ’twas after my toy time

TRex 66

Speaking of making your enemy look ridiculous – - have you seen the smackdown Jim Webb’s guy gave George Allen?

It’s fabulous. Not only a sharp (and quick) rebuke, but Webb’s people had done some opposition research – - very heartening.

The best part? George Allen’s middle name is Felix!

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ng;_ylt=Am

Hope the link works – - I haven’t done one here before.

OT – maybe already mentioned in a previous thread? – Pach cited, not particularly sympathetically, at TPM Coffee House:

Barack Obama gave a speech to bunch of fellow religious liberals gathered together to discuss the failure of progressives to connect with many religious voters– and he actually analyzed what some liberals say and don’t say that might be causing that failure.

And the blog reaction has been swift:
Chris Bowers- “So thanks Senator Obama, for reifying this Republican-driven talking point about Democrats.”
Pachacutec- But this bullshit from Barak Obama is Bill Clinton’s fault.
And a furious backchannel debate among bloggers to boot.

If you read the whole speech, the almost kneejerk response to Obama pretty much illustrates his point of the discomfort by some progressives in any discussion of religion in the public square…

Gemini with Gemini rising, spiderpaws.

Cancer moon.

Oh, and Mercury in Gemini.

And a yod.

what’s a yod?

Isn’t it obvious? Steno Jude was asked to leave. (And with a rather small (millions) severence package.) Gloves are off now. The NYT really got it. (Rolling eyes)

Sashland 159:

“My spin agitator is always primed to wash out BS. Any factual information to shine a light is appreciated.”

The Executive Editor of the NYT is not Miller, as you call him, but Keller.

There’s your “factual information.” Now, go elsewhere with your light.

what’s a yod?

I am embarrassed that I know this. A yod is a triangle formed by three aspects of your chart, i.e. positions in the sky of certain stars and planets at your birth.

People with yods in their charts are apparently endowed with a sense of purpose. A mission. The trine itself is shaped like an arrowhead.

I know. It’s goofy and it’s hokey, but of course, I’m curious to know about it for some reason.

I can read tarot cards too.

Huge.

Eyeroll.

yod once*.

*(Spanish pronunciation)

or a s Seinfeld said: “yod, a yod, a yod, a yod”

yod don’t say.

how does one find out if they are a yod?

“Waiter, there’s a yod in my chart”

how does one find out if they are a yod?

It’s pretty easy if you know an astrologer. I bet if you gave spiderpaws your date and time of birth, you could find out.

yodda yodda yodda

Comments on moderation of trollish posts with substantive queries:
I think that FDL moderation of trollish comments may have become too aggressive in some cases. I think when a trollish comment first appears that asks a sensible and substantive question that is relevant to the post, it should be allowed to stand, if does not contain a personal attack or is overly offensive, even if in other ways it is obviously trollish.
I think it is instructive to allow those coments to stand, so commmenters have a chance to answer them. And visitors to FDL see that they can be answered. And if commenters cannot answer them, then they do provide something to think about, regardless of the motives of the commenter.
On the post on global warming earlier today a poor fellow commented that he lost his life savings investing in some vague nonsense, supposedly because he, poor he, believed those silly climate scientists who said in the 1970s an ice age was imminent.
The idea that climate scientists as a group or in peer reviewed journals were saying this is bunk, and took about a minute to find a response. The whole story is built on the memory of a few scare stories in things like Popular Mechanics, and a few injudicious blurbs in non peer reviewed science magazines.
Parts of the comment referred to above was simultaneously silly, overly confrontational, pointlessly and transparently provocative, and nearly unintelligible . But, it did pose a question that is part of the public debate. Now, that question is in public debate precisely because of a dishonest disinformation campaign waged by the energy industry and the GOP. But the fact is that it is in public debate. So it is useful for people who come looking here to see how adequately and how quickly questions like those can be answered.
I think subsequent trollish posts by the same topic that do not advance serious discussion are fair game. But I think the initial post should be given the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.
And, in any case, I think a few specimens of inoffensive trollish coments are instructive, since the allow FDL readers to keep up on current state troll technique.
I couldn’t figure out what this poor fellow invested in that destroyed his life savings in preparation for the dread ice age that was to come any day… maybe it was a mansion constructed out of space heaters or something. Sad. Perhaps true.
Now consider comment 159 above. That took about two minutes to answer from start to finish. I want visitors to this site to see how FDL can answer such things. I think it is good for the blog.

Spiderpaws?

My brother has a yod in his chart as well, which makes us (ahem) The Yod Couple.

TRex, you trine to pull one over on us?

Sorry, that was supposed to be asking is Spider was still here and if so, willing. Don’t know what I did wrong.

Spiderpaws is FDL’s resident astrology expert

Yod Couple … oy

bet you can’t top that one, pun

Suzanne – what could you possibly have done wrong?

I was referring to my spiderpaws? post. I hit submit by mistake when I was planning on having more to that comment.

what – 170 and 171 were chopped liver? Come on, doesn’t anyone speak Spanish around here? :~)

re #178: I inmagine moderation must be a pain. And the global warming troll posts that were deleted earlier were by this fellow OCSteve, who is obnoxious and I am glad that the moderator deleted his second post, which was pointless, repetitive. And it was, frankly, very poor trolling. The ineptitude of it was pathetic. The strain it displayed trying to get a fight boing here made me feel sorry for the guy. And perhaps concern that FDL is attracting B-list trolls. So I am glad the moderator deleted his subsequent comments. But I wanted the first one to stand.

But, dude, that just an IMHO. I acknowledge that the ways of blogdom and deep in myserious and much of it beyond my ken.

sorry wespcc 177, we’re obviously focused on serious matters.

wespg, I understand your concern, but you would have to take that sort of question up with someone more experienced on the moderation team than me. I know that certain words are set to trigger filters. And something we have seen a lot of lately is comments that start out reasonable enough, but then turn nasty at the end. Typically, those are followed up by nastier comments which the FDL cleanup crew is magically whisking away just out of sight(!) before you see them.

It gets to where you can kind of see those commenters coming. There’ll be something wobbly about their first comment, but it seems innocuous enough, but then somebody flames them and it’s on.

We try to nip those things in the bud.

Now, it’s time for me to go to bed. Ferr-real dis time.

‘nite TRex

Is a yod man out considered a yod ball ?

punaise – that tpm cafe thread is purty interesting.

yes, more important matters…
Espanol-deficient, punaise. And I live in CA. My bad.

#190: I am going under cover to the other side. I am going to wreck them by letting my true nature run free and proud. You see, I think like I type, unless I exercise the most iron control. So I am practicing pretentious pontification tonight.

FDL is strong enough to withstand my misstyped comments, but I sense the other side is weak now. My comments will destroy them.

Wesgpc 162

Thank you very much for finding a fact based answer to my question. Seems to place the Reps in a bad light – which it should if they didn’t bother to check the public record before the accusations. Good reporting by the Globe.

TeddySanFran 169

Thanks for the correction – I got lazy and didn’t check my self doubt on this, getting too late and long day, but in any case, no excuses, I was WRONG on his name and have no problem admitting it…my bad.
And yes, you were also right in stating they would cut-off your head…
But why must I go elsewhere- because I ask people to back up their claims and think through the logic of their position? Your final retort is about as logical as “Love it or Leave it!”

wesgpc – this is going to be interesting.

We could form a band with Jimmy Page.

The Yodbirds.

I’ve been looking for work, but all I seem to be able to pick up are yod jobs here and there.

#191: No problem. My understanding is that the brass reads the comments. So I was hoping to provoke some discussion up at that level, which is probably where it should begin.

Don’t worry, my brilliant suggestions are always ignored. You know, a while back I said that FDL was better than the other blogs and FDL should “take the other blogs over.” My exact words. It was big picture stuff. Never heard from them. Imagine. I mean, I’m giving this stuff away for free! Sheer genius, I think. Where’s the love, where’s the appreciation. Didn’t even get a tee shirt out of that one. It’s a life a sacrifice, a life a sacrifice.

When can a man have three feet?

When he has a yod.

#196: sorry if I mistook you for something were were not, Sashland. It is hard to tell sometimes.

Why work? Frolic in the land of yod.

pun, my top that was referring to trex’s yod couple… sorry, i’m getting tired. nite all.

wesgpc, good points. I didn’t see the thread or comment in question. I don’t know anything about what goes on behind the curtain, but from this side of the divide I’d say that there is a general tendancy to address legitimate questions head on, with straightforward answers when possible, or at least referrals elsewhere. Provided the bounds of civility are respected.

Where it seems to get ambiguous is the realm of the “concern troll”, something I haven’t entirely figured out. Sometimes it takes the form of a seemingly well-meaning but often disengenuous question or supposition. Some of us with poorly tuned troll-dar take it naively at face value, others call BS on it right out of the chute.

Suzanne, agreed, Yod Couple takes the cake. ‘night, then.

newtonusr 193 – no problema. once is Spanish for the number eleven. It’s pronounced “own-say”

yod once?

what ‘er the yods

wesgpc – may I ask who might be your first um hmm.. target?

punaise #204: I would be the worst moderator in the history of this blog. It must be a difficult job. I admire moderators tremendously. (hi moderator, by the way, I need a small loan for some minor cash flow problems.)

I’m going over to the conservative blogs because I’ve realized that they have the truth too. I read on old book the other nitght: the Railing of the Bub, and it pointed out the following:

Deep Wisdom and great Matter are accompanied by momentous Clammer, just as the cackling hen is attendant to the nutritious Egg, and a Mighty Heave is announce by a loud Wretch.

How can I listen to anything but cable news and White House press briefings anymore? I ask you. Answer me that.

Now that is not a trollish comment. It is healthy debate I say!

#207: that is the problem, I don’t think that they will put up with me the way you folks do. I am still looking. I can’t bring myself to type out that kind of thing. I was goint to practice here late at night, when everyone is very serious and only the highest standards of discussion are allowed.

Actually, I am just acting out. I was so upset the day before yesterday, I got all mixed up. Mr *ilson made a joke and I thought he was seriously offended.

Bows in awe, punaise.

interesting case study: FDL commenter Ghostman started off appearing trollish a few months ago. I don’t even recall what it was about, but in a couple of threads he came across as willfully obtuse about something that irked a lot of readers and at least one of our gracious hostesses, IIRC. Repeated hints to get a clue were addressed obliquely, if at all.

Yet, he was engaged and not chased away. I dare say his devil’s advocate voice is now listened to respectfully, if not always in full agreement.

(hope I got that right)

Hi, Ghostman!

prostratedragon @ 10:14 pm (#73) – Good catch on the NK missile thing. Clearly, the NYTimes wasn’t that interested in people reading this.

I wonder what this is really about. As the Defense Tech article mentioned, liquid fuel rockets are not very useful as ICBMs, at least not for deterence. The fuel leaks, it’s caustic and, IIRC, explosive as well. We abandoned it almost forty years ago in favor of solid fuel. Solid fuel rockets are somewhat more difficult to make, but they’re reliable and they last a long time.

So it’s kinda looking like someone’s playing with us. It might be the NKs, and it might be the Bush Administration.

probably just as well I can’t find lyric to Siberi-
yo-o-o-d!
yo-o-o-d!

Oh, my yod! I remember it appeared to me as a late arrival, several folks had low blood sugar. The more you apologized, well it was a bit messy. No harm nor foul though.

yod a getta loada this.
yod a get yerself a job.
it’s be-yod me.

See, the events of the last few days have driven me mad, seriously mad. And another reason I am going over to the reactionary wingnuts is that they have so many wise men fit to teach the truly mad. I read the great book, The Look of Virtue, written by that famous virtuist and diviner of rational chances and deriderator Will Dammit. It changed my life. The following is from chapter Chapter Two, Pair: Patriotic Bore:

Full fathom five thy country lies,
All his bones are offal made,
Those are lies that were his eyes.
What’s good of it will quickly fade,
And with rotting we see changed
Into something mad, deranged.
Big shots dourly bring its knell:
Blig-bling
Hark! now I hear them:-Bling-bling hell.

(this profound verse inspired me to wrap myself in the flag -of course, following all Holy Flag protocol with utmost punctiliosity- and weep for joy)

From chapter Chapter Three of a Kind, Wise Asnides, we have this great poem from the Fool of King Lear:

Fool: Mark it, nuncle:
Have less than thou show,
Speak more than thou know,
Lend more than thou owe,
Keep less than thou stow,
Learn less than thou trow,
Set more than can throw;
Steal thy drink and thy whore,
Fall face to the floor,
And thou shall have less
Than one ten to a score.

(truer words never spoken)

And finally from Chapter Full House: Aphorprissisms and apothodumbs
Let me wipe it first; it smells of morality.

(A motto fit for the visionaries currently in charge, My conversion to Right Thought was complete!)

Yod Bodkins.

yo-o-o-d-d!
yo-o-o-d-d!

If any one sees any unidentified liquids seeping around, it may be my brain. Please sop up with clean sponge and send to me overnight express. Last weekend and Monday were momentous days in vicious political nonsense. Loaded with plitical yod. yoddy.

wesgpc – maybe yod a sleep on it. :~)

Ghostman is indeed a character. I really like his approach some sort of pious indignation. I am a little surprised and glad he stayed.

wesgpc – bling bling might blow yer cover.

Thanks for the Bod Yodkins link, which I do not see anymore. Did that Stalinist moderator delete it?

I will wonder off now. If you see an earnest snide pretentious apprentice reactionary wingnnt blog commenter wandering around with glasses, a blond wig parted down the middle and spats, it might be me. Bow tie with yellow stripes. On checkered background… yep, that just might be me. I probably won’t know where I am. I’m writing a note that I’m pinning to my lapel right now. Not sure what it says, so please just do your best. thanks.

punaise,

just finished cleaning up after a fundraising party my wife and I held this evening. Trying to catch up on the last third of this thread. My only observation is that you write very, very well. At fdl we’re mostly used to your aphorisms and twisted turns of phrase. But, as in #204 above, when you lay out an expository idea, your control of image is just awesome. I wish I could dream of writing like you do.

So yod is an astrological triangle. Is there a Bermuda yod ?

YOKAY

Arrrgh — What are the yods I’d come upon this when our biggest Scheuer fan, Mary (not to mention every other sensible person), is deep asleep?!

From Raw Story:

The United States is losing its fight against terrorism and the Iraq war is the biggest reason why, more than eight of ten American terrorism and national security experts concluded in a poll released Wednesday.

One participant in the survey, a former CIA official who described himself as a conservative Republican, said the war in Iraq has provided global terrorist groups with a recruiting bonanza, a valuable training ground and a strategic beach head at the crossroads of the oil-rich Persian Gulf and Turkey, the traditional land bridge linking the Middle East to Europe.

“The war in Iraq broke our back in the war on terror,” said the former official, Michael Scheuer, the author of “Imperial Hubris,” a popular book highly critical of the Bush administration’s anti-terrorism efforts. “It has made everything more difficult and the threat more existential.”

Scheuer, a former counter-terrorism expert with the CIA, is one of 100 national security and terrorism analysts who were surveyed this spring for the poll by Foreign Policy magazine and the Center for American Progress, a left-leaning think tank headed by John Podesta, who served as White House chief of staff in the Clinton administration.

Of the experts queried, 45 identified themselves as liberals, 40 said they were moderates and 31 called themselves conservatives. The pollsters then weighted the responses so that the percentage results reflected one-third participation by each group.

#223: me too. Punaise rules.

#228: The moderators gone. Partay, Punaise, I will check tomorrow to see if everyone’s behaved.

Valley Girl – noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! please don’t go…

VG – do you mean “a demain” or “adieu”?

punaise @ 12:05 am (#165) – I think if they actually read the comments, they’d realize that most of the “discomfort” had to do with what was said about religion, not the subject itself.

punaise- not well spoken on my part. Please ignore. I am deleting my comment.

Punaise: ballet with a pen.

lotus @ 1:16 am (#226) So, I wonder if that “eight of ten security experts” was the weighted or unweighted count? If it’s the former, there would seem to be broad agreement.

VG – I didn’t even think it was really you. whew

pfewww….don’t do that to us, VG…guess I read too much into it. just thought a heard something snap. Oops, do you have to delete all mine too? :~)

aw shucks, y’all (scuffles dirt with one toe)

From the context, I’m assuming “weighted,” Cujo. Pretty undeniable by now, even if you’re in the WH or Rummy’s orifice, in any case.

VG, hope you’re okay.

wesgpc, oopsie on Stalinist, eh?

wespac 201

No apologies needed. Most people mistake me for something else. Why?
Why? Because I take each issue on its merits and I don’t like to be manipulated by half stories and selective / mis-stated facts, from any side. I dig, and scratch, and cross-reference, actively seeking information contrary to what I already have, and I don’t just accept story lines.
Why? Because as a life-long Dem I happen to see a deeper threat from Islamists than others perceive, and my examination of the evidence leads me to conclude that Iraq under SH was indeed a terrorist supporting state and posed threats to the US that we didn’t / still don’t understand. Our worst intelligence failures aren’t even discussed. $10 million down payment on Ballistic Missle from N. Korea and we had no clue, amoung many others. Trans-oceanic mesquitos? Weapons / explosive catches hiddden for IED’s and IED builder traiining? We don’t understand our enemy.
Why? Because an obsession with nailing Bush on the basis of anti-war is likely setting the Dems up for a big smack-down in 2008. Poor political strategy following on the same mistake of nominating Kerry, and people may have a hard time becuase I will say this out loud.
Why? Because I happen to have links to a lot of folks with divergent world views and I want to foster an atmosphere where respectful disagreement is encouraged. I can not remain silent as political discourse smells like a sewer – I engage people because our country, divided and unable to communicate, will not be able to bring both sides of “the brain” into problem solving and our country will be at greater risk. I am very disappointed that the Dems early-on dropped out of the war effort as a different perspctive was critical in avoiding /fixing errors; even as I can be critical of military strategy and PR.
Why? Because I am angry at the slime attacks on Lieberman, as political canniballism, and I think it threatens to weaken, rather than strengthen the Dems. If the facts are so compelling then stick to them without the personal attacks.
And I have a very real question I am trying to understand here – do the hard-left dem blogs really want pro-war Dems to leave the party?
So, no offense if you couldn’t peg me. Most people can’t. Some weak hope that having feet planted in many different worlds can help me to show a way to bridge the communication break-down and build a more civil discourse.
If that make me a troll, fine, no insult to me, but maybe you might want to know what the other half of the party thinks…

One needed to read a number of wesgpc comments to get that right. Punaise needs shoe polish.

shoogarpolish.

huh?

‘Tis a surprise to see Sashland still standing after what Mary rendered unto him the other day.

Ed*ard Teller 223 – backatcha – what’s going on with your music? I saw something about “Rachel Corrie” finally being staged in Brooklyn, I think.

lotus – very sorry I missed that(Mary). did you notice what paper ran that story from your raw snip?

Eureka, Raw Story’s intro reads, “Most national security experts of all stripes say America’s losing war on terror, according to an article by Cox News Service slated to hit the wires on Thursday.”

Lotus 243

I was so pained I could barely breath;
and I missed the gang bang smackdown celebration on the carry-over thread. Such fun – Sorry I didn’t get an invite.

But I guess it must be comforting to have someone tell you what you already think you know… you never have to check and see if it’s accurate!

Sashland – you lost me at “hard-left dem blogs”, if by that you mean to include this one. I think there are a lot of moderate liberals here – let’s say progressives – whose values are not out on the fringe at all. We’re driven by outrage, the egregious conduct of the Bushco and the right. If that calls for some stridency and aggressive tactics to push back and fight the complacency, so be it.

prostratedragon?? I can’t find the comment cujo was responding to on NK.

national security experts of all stripes

thank you kind sir

oh horizontal stripes

Kevin Drum:

…it looks as if a ballot initiative has qualified in California that I might actually have to vote for: the Clean Money and Fair Elections Act of 2006. It’s modeled on Arizona’s campaign finance law, and the goal is to remove nearly all private funding of political campaigns. To qualify for public funding under the act, you have to raise $5 contributions from a set number of people (for example, 750 contributions for an Assembly race, 25,000 contributions if you’re running for governor), and agree not to raise any additional money from private sources. All candidates get the same amount of money, and if one candidate decides to forego the state limits and raise private money, the others qualify for additional matching funds.

Here’s the full Cox article.

Sashland, superciliousness like yours deserves everything it gets.

punaise,

sorry for putting you on the spot there, but it is true. your uniqueness here is one of the strongest aspects of this site.

I’m working on two song cycles and a piece or pieces for brass, organ and percussion. the firsr song cycle is on lyrics by a Scottish poet with the improbable name of Tina Louise:

http://www.tinalouise.co.uk/

they’re a gift to Deborah Fink the wonderful soprano who sang the solos in London for “The Skies are Weeping.”

the second is on poems by Pablo Neruda, for performances in Chile in February.

the third is a commision for international trombone week next April.

trying to decide what to do next with “The Skies are Weeping.” hoping to do it in the Seattle area next March, just before the Seattle Rep does “My Name is Rachel Corrie.”

Something new must be tried. So public funds would end up matching the highest fundraiser.

ET 255, you’re too kind…just being super silly, us.

Can we hear your music somewhere?

crikey – work manana, ‘night all.

Eureka Springs, AR @ 1:51 am (#250) – Did you try reloading the page using your browser’s reload button? prostratedragon’s post had three links in it, so it may have been in moderation. Here’s the Defense Tech link:

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002543.html

Aus resevoir, punaise.

sashland
I think that I, a life long Democrat, share some of your feelings.
Lieberman is not my cup of tea but I live in Colorado so I can’t vote for him but if I could I’d tack is Quisling butt to the wall.
For what ever reason we ‘old hippie’ Dems thought the specter of evil had been put down for ever when Nixon got on the chopper and skulked outta DC.
Jesus were we ever wrong.
Next came reagan and like some bad horror movie the beast of greed had attacked the country again.
I remember that we had damn few homeless/hopeless folks living on the streets until that bag of sepcis had been in office for a couple of years.
Bush the first may be doing nice things with Clinton now but he has a long row to hoe to atone for the horrors that he visited on this country.
Now we are stuck with a ‘dry drunk’dullard who’s lied us into a war with Iraq. Going after the Taliban in Afganistan was the right thing to do…going into Iraq, on the cheap, just to show that his dick is bigger than his dad’s was not.
The evil in this country took our heros, JFK, MLK, RFK and devastated OKC.
We have not, and shall not respond in kind.
But we will raise our voices and demand that those who do not honestly honor all those virtues that the GOP professes to will be driven back into the sewers from whence they came.
There, that felt good.

cujo – Pardon my delayed curiosity thanks

Eureka Springs, AR @ 2:21 am (#263) – S’OK. I was in another thread chatting with yet another group of people who want to rip my lungs out. The usual.

fartsinsleep @ 2:21 am (#262) – Jesus were we ever wrong.

Boy, were we ever. I thought they’d never try that again. In a way I was right; this is much worse.

Like your nom de ordinatuer, by the way.

Lotus

Sorry, not trying to be haughty’, just pissed at the whole situation, trying to expres myself clearly, with some passion, yet remain civil. Sorry if the style of reins binds you.

My attitude and comments are also in response to the blog and comments I read here.

I’d like to more about the poll and the writer. The one quoted author is well known. Might as well release the list and quotes from the 100 experts.

Night punaise; wanted to say thanks in response to one of your ideas, I think we both, possibly, just used alternative descriptors. Don’t take offense please, but consider the context of my question. My use of hard-left is not the same as far-left. Hard is not pejorative. Your moderate liberal is certainly helpful as perspective.
must go now as well,

that’s one thing we need to keep in mind, evil and greed are like a force of nature that may never be stopped but we have to work hard just to slow it down.
well the last of the kids is movin’ out, I’m gonna have a little time on my hands…I’ll be ‘the cranky old commie, pinko, tree hugging fart that lives in the mountains and keeps screaming “you kids git the fuck offa ma constitution”‘.
yeah, I can do that.

sashland is wesgpc imo

good night and much peace.

fartsinsleep – I like your style. I am already on that ozark mountain. g’nite

fartsinsleep @ 2:41 am (#267) – They certainly are omnipresent, along with stupidity, which I suppose isn’t a coincidence.

Well, it’s time for me to get out of here, too. Goodnight, all.

ES, AR

huh?!

your’re already dreaming imo

moderator could confirm, but don’t wake sleeping babies…

good night and much peace.

As former moderator I can confirm, at least insofar as IP addresses are available, wesgpc is not sashland. And I am not a “sleeping baby”, thank you very much.

Thanks VG

LOL, reference on sleeping was to ES, AR’s dreaming already, what that has to do with you, unlesss you are ES, AR… Never mind, later.

Sashland, what that has to do with me is that you asked a moderator (okay former moderator) to confirm that you are not wesgpc. And, I did so. And, for the record, I am not ES, AR. So, screw you and the horse you rode in on.

Excuse me Valley Girl

You are not understanding my words, sorry.
I am not referencing you with any comments.
thank you. And get off your former high horse.

What I was meaning was

A moderator Could confirm, but that I did not want to ask one to do so because it was totally unnecessary and because I didn’t want to wake up ES, AR. OK wow

lighten up – pretend you see a little smiley face here “&”

http://www.funnytimes.com/arch…..060412.htm

Good morning Valley!

Good morning Firedoglake. Don’t you folks ever sleep?

VG feed your spirit, not that other thing….

It was always very sound advice from you.

Hey imm! What time zone do you live in?

eastern time zone

Hi egregious — every little thing OK? I saw upthread that someone was explaining how we all became so interested/active because of how “egregious” things have become….

Everytime someone says that, I smile for you.

This week I read that China is moving to tighten controls on media coverage without government approval of emergency incidents such as industrial accidents, natural disasters, health or social crises. Then I saw this article on Egypt’s experiment with democracy by Jeffrey Azarva (Mpls Star Trib, 6/26) that ended with the arrest of presidential candidate Nour. April 30 the Egyptian government extended emergency laws for 2 more years, under which they can censor media, ban public demonstrations & detain political dissidents indefinitely.
The supposedly democratic US isn’t looking greatly different from any other dictatorial country, is it?

Hey imm! Life is good right now. As a bipolar seasonal person, I’ll pay for this next December when it gets dark, but for now laissez les bons temps rouler.

Our charity just got a donation of $15,000 of surgical equipment for the children’s hospital we support in a former Soviet country. My big question is how to get it safely packed and transported. That’s a good kind of a problem.

My kids are all healthy and are all employed. I’ve doubled my exercise in the last week and am feeling really good.

Things are beginning to happen politically, tho there certainly is a long way to go. My man Webb called Allen a coward who sat out the war on a dude ranch :o

It finally stopped raining, and they fixed and re-opened the bridge that had been damaged. So all in all seems like things are going well. Clearly I am overlooking something :)

Punaise –

I heard on Democracy Now that My Name is Rachel Corrie will finally be staged at the Minetta Lane Theatre (in Greenwich Village, not Brooklyn).

Immanentize, that’s quite the fancy name you’ve got there.

I understand the dictionary definition, but how do you come by using this name?

Morning, one and all.

Coffee…coffee…

ISO: consciousness

Friendly tip on trolling to Sashland at 240: when you state that you’re a lifelong Democrat to bolster your credibility, you just end up undercutting it. My advice (no charge) is to change your handle and work on the subtlty. Have a nice day.

op99, you know I would think, too, that any so-called “pro-war Dem” would be extremely concerned about the fascism that underlies the manipulation of the NYT as well as the manipulation of all intelligence, military or State Dept.-based.

Unless the so-called “pro-war Dem” is a fasciste…no change to the handle or amount of subtlety will modify that, yes?

Morning, all!

I got so bored with S’land’s wee-hours huff’n’puff, I went back to sleep — a good move on my part, and much more refreshing.

How y’all are?

Come to think of it, our so-called “pro-war Dem” had a beef with Frontline’s Dark Side program covering Cheney (on a post-war basis, I might add) — the found a number of alleged errors in Frontline’s coverage.

But here we are, talking about the NYT and its role in providing grossly inadequate, fallacious or altogether misleading reporting leading up to the war.

Notice anything missing?

Not one peep about the NYT’s even greater negligence that fundamentally led to a poorly run and ill-timed war. Even so-called “pro-war Dems” should agree that wars must be appropriate and effective and not based on hackery.

Hi lotus! Hi Rayne!

Note to the intimidated media: This is how the Bush administration treats its friends. It has no memory; it has no imagination. It knows what it wants.

And it wants the New York Times to shut up before it publishes other stories that the White House wants to stay hidden. Why is the New York Times the target? If must be because the Times is sitting on more stories that the White House is “cautioning” it not to run. Losing confidence in its ability to strongarm in private, it has loosed a public panic attack.

Morning, gang – second morning in a row with sunshine (and heat and humidity, but – hey – that’s summer in Maryland) and a long holiday weekend is almost here!

Haven’t had a chance to read up from last night, but I gather Sashland decided to brave FDL again.

tommy – you get any of those blueberries yet? Leave a few for the birds, but treat yourself, too – you won’t be sorry!

Now to catch up…

Hi, Tommy!

At 226 and 254 ^, I referred to then linked to a Cox News story, but somehow that Lexington Herald-Leader version doesn’t look so “full,” after all. Does anybody else have a Cox paper with more of the text available? Headline something in the vicinity of

“U.S. losing war on terror, experts say”

clem,

I completely agree. I believe this push-back aimed solely at the NYTimes is about THE NEXT story they want to go with.

from Mary above:

A final note from the same source. Suskind recounts meeting with William Sloane Coffin before Coffin’s death. Coffin looks at Suskind and says:

“I never thought I’d live to see the day when old-fashioned journalism would be a form of civil disobedience.”

Just as we Slam the NYTimes when the engage in stenography and other perversions of journalism, I am glad TRex has the good sense to know that we have to stand up firm and loud and defens them, and any MSM outlet, when they do the right thing.

If we want them to do their jobs the right way, we have to support and encourage that. Right now, we cannot take it for granted that doing their freakin job is the least we expect from them. They are like a battered psouse and we have to really help them regain the confidence necessary to uphold thier first ammendment role.

Having said that:

I saw Geraldine Ferrera kick Victoria Toensings ass last night on Hannity and Colms. Colms must have taken testosterone shots or something, b/c he gave at least as good as he got to ole’ vicky. Made her look like fool, actually talked over her.I was shocked (in a good way) actually applauded at my TV screen at one point.

Anyway, Gerry F. Hit exactly the right message, which we should try to spread:

It is NOT the NYTimes. Or more accurately, it is not JUST the NYTimes.

3 papers broke he story on the same day: NYTimes, LATimes, and Wall Street Journal.

Whatever the WH, Congress, whomever wants to do to punish the Times, THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO DO THE SAME TO THE WSJ.

Make sure to include the WSJ in every mention of this story.

It’s the poison pill.

Egregious, Is it enough to say that I just prefer to be a verb rather than a noun?

I picked up the word/concept first years ago from The Illuminatus! trilogy by Robert Sghea and Robert Anton Wilson. It is a great read at any time, but aspects of it are particularly apt right now…. Anyway, when I was teaching at a Catholic University, one of the great old-timey preists started talking about Immanentizing God’s realm on earth. This was a very different concept than the end of days idea that some Church of Christ and Southern Baptists (Calvanists all) were conceiving. This idea was not about forcing the rapture and the anti-Christ, but working through people’s souls toward a heaven on earth. I rather liked that idea.

So, when I stumbled across Atrios and Eschaton about three plus years ago, after I finished lurking, I had to pick a name. That was the only place I was posting, so I chose this to be purposefully action oriented (although it is perhaps obscure about which direction I chose to act).

Clem at 292

You have hit it right on the head. I keep wondering what all the flag burning nonesense is supposed to be diverting us from?

maybe it is the NEXT scoop the Times is sitting on.

We MUST MUST MUST support them when they do the right thing.

Mary #27 has it exactly right! Just catching up this morning, but this paragraph should be repeated by every single Democrat over and over in the discussion/stunt moves by the Republicans on the Senate floor and in front of the cameras. Talk about the perfect talking point!

I posted at Huffpo on the NYT issue, but the fact remains for all these stories – it is not news to ANYONE that calls are intercepted, people are followed, transactions are audited, etc. What idiot does not think those things are going on? The only “news” coming out is that those things are going on with no supervision, no oversight, no warrants, etc. All unilaterally run by the Exec Branch — that same crew who just added losing millions of vets data to losing billions of taxpayers dollars. As per the historians — if the founding fathers looked at George Washington and said: Govt needs check and balances — it is humbling to think how they may have structured our govt if they had been looking, instead, at Cheney or GWB.

And if this was thoroughly discussed overnight, don’t think of my comment as redundant, think of it as textbook for staying on message!

Rayne 288 lol. BTW, is “fasciste” enough to call Godwin’s Law on you, or does it have to be Nazis? (In which case you can call it on me!)

isn’t it horrible that in the current debate in politics in the USA that “Godwin’s Law” is going the way of the Geneva Conventions …

immanentize: are you a Robert Shea fan? Did you read The Saracen and The Holy War?

Amen, clem, imm, and lhp!

Oh, and speaking of the LAT, among their most-viewed this morning is Arianna’s “Don’t be a hack, Hillary,” which begins:

TUESDAY’S SENATE debate on flag desecration was emblematic of Hillary Rodham Clinton’s ongoing attempt to rebrand herself as a red-state-friendly Dem by supporting a bill that would have criminalized flag descrcration, while still holding on to her liberal bonafides by voting against the Constitutional amendment banning that desecration. It was eating your patriotism cake and having it too.

Even if Clinton doesn’t know what she stands for any longer, doesn’t she at least read the polls? The latest analysis by Democracy Corps, a Democratic polling firm, couldn’t be clearer: Democrats need to draw sharp distinctions between themselves and the GOP — especially by stressing their opposition to the war in Iraq. Oh, that’s right, Clinton doesn’t see things that way. She wants to have it both ways on Iraq too.

“I do not think,” she said earlier this month at a Take Back America conference, “it is a smart strategy for the president to continue with his open-ended commitment, which I think does not put enough pressure on the new Iraqi government. Nor do I think it is smart strategy to set a date certain.”

Is that not the second coming of “I voted for it before I voted against it”?

. . .

Good Morning FDL! There’s a new post! http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..the-truth/

Lotus, they had a brief clip of Markos on the Today Show this morning, explaining why his “followers” (lol) aren’t on board with Hilary. I want to hire that guy’s booking agent!

Hey back at ya’, tommy 5:13 am!

op99 — LOL. Actually, I didn’t mean it in that sense; I meant it in the same fashion as most of the neo-conservatives, who are virtually “universal fascists”. Michael Ledeen, for example, has been labeled a “universal fascist”.

And Matawhori herself enabled that same “universal fascist”; how wide is the line between enabling a fascist and being one?

Good Morning Firepups,

a job change has seriously cut in to my FDL time, and my apparently DEAF family is up and about at a time I normally have the house to myself – SO I’m A LITTLE GRUMPY !

so how y’all doing ?

disappointed in the SCOTUS TX redistricting ruling, although they sided w/ career DOJ folks who said it wasn’t compliant w/ ‘64 Voting Rights Act

NYT – the ol inverse formula applies – the more recalcitrant and harsh the Chimp’s response, the less he knew (NSA. Dubai Ports, etc.)”Disgraceful” my ass. Seriously, what does he do all day while Pres. Cheney and Under Fuhrer Addington steer the ship of state ?

cbl — um, you mean besides riding his bike?

Or fondling the heads of bald men?

Hmm. Good question, because it certainly doesn’t look like he reads during his free time.

Operative Principle: Neoconservatives eat their young…

Good morning everyone. I took a broom to the lobby just to tidy up from the evening’s supercills. That lovely scent you detect is a mixture of rosemary, humility, and lavendar.
I’m thinking the White House is super freaked about the third or fourth story down the line. It might involve money. God, I’m psych!
BTW, blueberries are really fantastic right now, straight out of the box.

calvin is wondering whether or not the administration’s pointing of fingers at the NY Times is a smokescreen for Wayne Madsen’s reporting on WMDs in Iraq that were furnished by Bush I and the Carlyle Group?

Look at the bright, shiny object. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Especially after watching Olbermann’s take-down last night (and I’ve heard his general point about this not being “secret” information on the MSM), I told my husband this morning that this effort to condemn the NYTimes was another “Schiavo moment” for Congress — they’re getting all shrill and sanctimonious, while the population of non-wingnuts roll their eyes.

Well said. I feel relief after reading your article. Thanks!!

This may have been stated already…but someone who has the contact information should email this post to all members of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Thanks for the darts – but how is being a life-long Dem a bad thing (ok, misleading, the first 14 years weren’t actually, really, official). Unless you imply that I am a liar about it? It was mentioned because someone was questioning my perspective, it seemed relevant, and I is what I is.

Here is the direct link to the SWIFT reporting from Vitor Comras. Always like to read the real thing rather than the snipet.
http://counterterrorismblog.or….._of_sw.php

Please note the conclusion of the report: “The Group recommends the adoption of similar mechanisms by other countries.” So, the name SWIFT has been publicly linked to spying – seems NO criminal act involved. But it begs the question – if previously public, not illegal, and effective in catching terrorists, why run the story when asking not to in order to protect national security? What is gained in “the public interest” by advertising the use of such a good and UN ‘approved’ program? Just Gotcha journalism points?

I think this is actually a good example of how a hyperbolic charge that missed contradictory evidence makes the twisters look bad and undermines the rational part of the case. To the extent that Judy Miller twisted, the same came back to her, and in my view also dicsredited some very real threats (check out the rest of the CT blog). It happens to twisters of any political color. Similarly, anyone who claims the program was evil, illegal, unsurpervised or part of some larger invasion of privacy conspiracy undermines the Dems credibility.

Additional link found at same site from a direct source.

http://counterterrorismblog.or…..financ.php

You want sophmoric manipulations of WWII propaganda flyers?

Check out An Obscene Gesture on the Schapira blog, What we know so far …

“and tell ‘em Big Mitch sent ya!”

There’s only one thing wrong with that picture: the pixellation of Rove’s tiny schmeckel.