Jane’s Mom.

Fahrenheit!

Keep your head down Fitz!

Well, it’s not a news story, but there’s a fascinating essay about marriage at the anthropology blog Savage Minds. Chock full of good stuff about how the conservative “the way marriage has always been” is fantasy, and how the anthropolgical functions of marriage interact with our society and economy.

I hated that movie.

speaking of Fahrenheit — it’s 1040pm in Baghdad and the temperature is still 99ºF

That 10 commandments guy is dumber than a sack of hammers. It was almost painful to watch Colbert dismantle him oh-so-politely.

TPM Muckraker (as in Talking Points Memo) — like FDL, it’s a daily must-read.

Thanks for all the links — it’s amazing to watch how all this stuff just keeps seeping out from under the carpet.

Must be karma or something.

The WaPo piece on pre-emptively taking out the N. Kor. Missile if they continue to talk about holding their testing.

Karzai saying this “bombs away, civilians duck” approach to the war on terror has to change in his country.

BobbyG 5

I hated that movie.

yeah, BobbyG, but two words: Diane Lane

*ilson46201 says
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:41 am

speaking of Fahrenheit %u2014 it’s 1040pm in Baghdad and the temperature is still 99F
____

Sounds like just another summer evening here in Vegas.

*ilson,

wanted to thank you and others behind the curtain for keeping this moveable feast going – appreciate it

am gonna go back and read Froomkin – but one more time let’s hear it for Paul Kiel, Justin Rood and of course Josh for TPM Muck – have been waiting over 2 years for the Abramoff shitstorm to engulf DC –

and it is everything I always hoped it would be and more

what makes the ‘10-Commandments guy’ so pitiful is that the only ones he could recall were the behavioral ones like no lying or stealing. Even I as an atheist know that the principal one is the #1 about there being only one god … Westmoreland is really unchurched !

Mary, re the N. Korea preemptive strike — I sent this reply to my Harvard/KSG friend who fowarded the WaPo op-ed to me:

“The authors, who argue for a preemptive war with North Korea, starting with an unprovoked US missile strike on N.Korea’s test missile launch site, conclude that there is a compelling logic to deterrence, and so, if the US attempted (or succeeded) in destroying the Korean rocket on its launch pad, N. Korea would be deterred from retaliating against S. Korea, because the N. Korea officials would surely recognize that the result would be the swift military defeat of the N. Korean regime, if not the obliteration of North Korea’s cities major cities. Having grasped this logic, however, the authors fail to apply it in the first instance.

In other words, if it is true that the N. Koreans would not do anything to substantially imperil the survival of their regime, why wouldn’t we expect them to conclude that if they attacked the Aleautian Islands with their single missile that the US would immediately obliterate what’s left of N Korea with some tiny fraction of the enormous US’ own nuclear arsenal? This is essentially the conclusion that the Bush regime has come to in Iran, after realizing their blustering against the Iranian regime is making nuclear confrontation more, not less, likely. Even Condi Rice realized she had to change course.

M.A.D. prevented the US and Soviet Union from attacking and destroying each other for 40 years. There is no reason to believe M.A.D. would not apply to the “rational” or “irrational” Mr. Kim, once you attribute to him the primal instinct for survival. But there is every reason to fear the illogical and dangerous recommendations of Mssrs. Carter and Perry.”

punaise says
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:42 am

BobbyG 5

I hated that movie.

yeah, BobbyG, but two words: Diane Lane
________

Agreed.

But, she was also in “A History of Violence,” which SUCKED EVEN WORSE.

BobbyG — in Las Vegas you still have electricity and air-conditioning and your neighborhood militias arent quite so lethal …

lotus @ 98 previous thread:

You might want to check-out WMR here for information on that story:

December 13, 2005 — Halliburton’s connection to low wage slave trading in the Middle East and espionage inside the Vice President of the United States’ White House office

Leave it to the MSM to be 6 months behind the curve and probably poaching Madsen to boot…

~

more stories I was glad to see:
from talkleft: ACLU files freedom of info suit on Haditha.
from CBS evening news Wednesday: Wayne Smith, a native American who oversaw gaming for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, claims Steven Griles was Abramoff’s point man in the Department of the Interior. (reported, with video, on Raw Story)

Somebody needs to google up and realize just how many troops North korea has to throw around.Dumbasses.

*ilson46201 16 -

Excellent point. Though, our gangs and our cops get awful trigger-happy a LOT.

The cops here recently shot a dude in the back and killed him. He’d just been arrested and was in cuffs standing by a police car. Tried to run away. They shot him down like a dog.

Inquest? “Justifiable use of deadly force.”

I been here 14 years. Metro is still batting 1,000 on “justifiables”. You don’t wanna reach into a pocket in front of a nervous cop here.

My Fahrenheit! was an homage to Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686-1736), German physicist who devised the popular temperature scale so often used in meteorology…

speaking of which: Indiana is being wracked and raked again by thunderstorms and tornados — my TV goes off CNN and now it’s a local weather channel with radar…

If you haven’t read Digby, go there now. AND click through to tristram-shandy’s post complete with some of the best comments in a while!

ROTFLMAO

With all that stormin’ going on, we need a few laughs!

OT:

Just off the phone with Sen. Stevens’ office where I strongly urged him to spend as much time between now and Tuesday with Dan Inouye as possible. Staffer, who I know, says calls running heavily, very heavily against his position, which she claims he is re-thinking. Yeah, right…….

I’m off to catch some fish. I’ll try to stay away from those sneaker waves.

*ilson, I don’t know about that,you ever been between a little old lady and a nickel slot machine?

No story to post, just want to say how much I am thinking of Jane.

Bustedknuckles: the Al-Lady Brigades?

Lots of craziness of late… nothing interrelated, just blips on the radar…

An elite prostitution ring tied to former Italian royalty…
A suidicided diplomat with longstanding ties to the Bush crime family…
There’s a GOP Advertising guy accused of molesting young girls…
Who can forget the ongoing FAA coverup of who owns Cocaine One (i.e., the 737 Mexican authorities busted in Mexico with 5.5 tons of cocaine aboard…

I’m thinking about Jane too. And remembering going through something like it with my dad 11 years ago. What I remember most was re-entry into the real world afterward and how hard and surreal it was.

No matter what happens with Jane’s mom, we are going to have to give her space so she can slide rather than crash back in.

Just a thought.

The articles that have caught my attention, and revived some memories are not quite the perfect storm so much as signs of the long-run cancer of keeping soldiers in a war that increasing numbers will come to see as as unjust . . .

There have been several recent articles on arrests of US Marines and soldiers for atrocities in Iraq, about killings of prisoners in custody, about massacres as Haditha, and so so, to go along with the Abu Gr… and other mistreatment stories since 2004. These have to be taking a cumulative toll on the public and self image of the US soldier.

For the longest time, the American people have viewed US service folks in Iraq as unselfish and moral “heroes” courageously defending US freedom. This is a very different view from what many had of Vietnam era veterans. Now, however, the increasing number and frequency of stories of Iraq horrors is bound to have a similar effect on perceptions of Iraq veterans. Sooner or later, we will start to see that effect, justified or not. I remember this well, being from that generation that felt it better to downplay my service than highlight it, because I would always encounter some who would wonder if I would shoot them on sight if given the slightest pretext.

It is fundamentally unfair to keep service folks in that situation.

If you need a break from this stuff…

Go look at all of the Best Ads on TV to actually see some good TV commercials. I was surprised that I had only seen two of them before. (Link via. Andrew Sullivan)

lotus – you still here? In response to your 98 from last thread, here’s a snippet from the KBR trafficking story from ChiTrib:

Air Force Col. Robert Boyles, who helped implement military reforms aimed at eliminating trafficking of Asian laborers onto American bases in Iraq, also testified that contractors had seized passports as a standard practice. He suggested they complied with military orders to return travel documents to the workers only because their business was threatened.

Much of the hearing focused on the agency’s investigation of and response to a 2005 Tribune series, “Pipeline to Peril.” The series documented networks run by a string of human brokers in Asia and the Middle East, men working in tandem with a chain of subcontractors doing business on U.S. military bases in Iraq. They deceitfully lured workers into the war zone from poor Asian nations, sometimes used coercion, violated human rights or failed to protect them.

The article says the military is implementing a zero-tolerance policy and that all passports are believed to have been returned.

Agreed the movie wasn’t ‘all that’…

However, the book is one of the best pieces of non-fiction I’ve ever come across.

Of course, it helps being a native MA and having lived on the coast, and my mom’s family were fishermen in NS, Can.

And the graphic fits like a ‘perfect’ encapsulation of the thread.

A negotiated peace is something I wish for fervently.

I found this fascinating, and seemingly under-reported:

>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Hamas has made a major political climbdown by agreeing to sections of a document that recognise Israel’s right to exist and a negotiated two-state solution, according to Palestinian leaders.

In a bitter struggle for power, Hamas is bowing to an ultimatum from the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to endorse the document drawn up by Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli jails, or face a national referendum on the issue that could see the Islamist group stripped of power if it loses.

But final agreement on the paper, designed to end international sanctions against the Hamas government that have crippled the Palestinian economy, has been slowed by wrangling over a national unity administration and the question of who speaks for the Palestinians.

(snip)

Israel has dismissed the prisoners’ document as changing little because, among other things, it advocates continued resistance. But a complete renunciation of violence is unlikely to come while Israeli attacks continue to claim the lives of innocent Palestinians.

Earlier today, a women was killed and six children injured in an Israeli missile attack in Gaza. On Tuesday, an Israeli air force rocket killed three children, two boys aged five and 16, and a seven-year-old girl. In both cases, Israel said it was targeting militants who escaped injury.

Israel has killed 13 civilians, most of them children, in four air strikes this month. It is also probably responsible for the killing of a family of seven during a shell barrage against a Gaza beach two weeks ago.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/isra…..62,00.html

BobbyG 15 – who said anything about acting ? although she was good in “Unfaithful”

Interesting little confront between bouncing Beyonce, the woman without the gift of gab, and PETA, over at TMZ.com. Beyonce, is there any there, there?

http://www.tmz.com/2006/06/15/…..a-at-nobu/

KBR – trafficking story -

let’s not forget approx. 6 mos ago, the Chimp backed off a UN Resolution of Censure on trafficking and sex slavery – b/c the list of countries t/b censured included Kuwait & Saudi Arabia

how very Christian of him

These Post authors must be in Dick Cheney’s entourage. Their basic premise is North Korea is so rational that if the USA bombs their missile launch site they will so restrained that they won’t fire 10,000 artillery shells into Seoul.

Or, maybe more likely, South Koreans like Iraqis don’t mean a damn to the American Elite and they don’t care if Seoul ceases to exist and a conventional war commences on the Korean Peninsula.

Frontline, Chicago Trib…not looking good for Cheney…

Gotta check-out the latest at Pravda

~

Well, there’s the Santorum/WMD Comedy Hour posted at Crooks & Liars:

http://tinyurl.com/ken8g

AUGHHHHH! MY EYES!
I just opened my email and there it was,horrble,yet, so lifelike. Rudy Frikkin Giulani, wanting ME, to join his team and support strong republicans. BWAAHAAAHAA. Fat chance peckerhead.

Received this in my mailbox today re Big Media getting even bigger. Maybe the rest of you already have it, but in case you do not:
http://www.stopbigmedia.com/comment.php

TPM relays a Seattle Times report that Cantwell is on board for Net Neutrality.

From AP

WASHINGTON — In a case involving a former Utah businessman, the Supreme Court on Thursday dealt a blow to longtime undocument immigrants, ruling that the deported Mexican man who lived in the United States for 20 years is barred from seeking legal residency or other relief in the courts.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3967521

______________

Punaise, BobbyG – Diane Lane in Unfaithful….but did it suck?

FYI, Cheney on The Situation Room today. Why is the Dark Lord all of a sudden showing his fave in public? Is it because of the Frontline show?

Thinking of you Jane!

shoogarp – I liked it, but I’m a cheap movie date – fairly easy to please. The ladies would swoon over Olivier Martinez, the French beau.

Cheney Update from CNN.com @ 2:34

Whatever could he be saying…?

I’m overreacting. He’s swell.

[snip]
Asked if it were true he’s become a “dark, nefarious source in the administration,” Cheney said, “I suppose sometimes people look at my demeanor and say, ‘Well, he’s the Darth Vader of the administration.’ “

rat bastahd # 43

sadly no, this is all about Iran – he could care less about Frontline – it’s just for egg headed liberals anyway – and besides

“we’re an empire now. . .”

It’s a tribute to Jane, Christie, Pach, well just everybody at this site the way people are busting their butts to keep this community nurtured. To Jane, I wish you strength and success in bringing your mom back to health; to Christie thanks for showing how a friend takes care of a friend; to Pach, well I just wish I had a few of your brain cells and a spoonful of your compassion. Bad things are happening to this country of ours.

Redshift #4

Thanks, it was a good article on marriage. I wish they had discussed conditions in Europe, especially the trend toward samboende (living together) in place of marriage in Sweden.

not to mention “mambo italiano”

I just want to say, for the record, that the skeezeball at TNR who did the smarm piece yesterday has another one up today in which no — NO — apology to Jane and I is present. I just got an e-mail giving me a heads up about it. Fuck him. Fuck TNR. This is the last thing Jane and I need right now. If I had a subscription to that rag, I’d cancel it.

Jackass.

From the last post on Holy Joe-Joe.

Good God!! Why do Senators always use these utterly embarrassing props (clothing, hats) when they go in front of the cameras!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!. I’m beginning to think during the next round of televised hearing we’re going to see one or more of them dressed as WHITE TRASH PIE!!!

This may be wishful thinking, but I like the stories I am not seeing. A lot of what I think are irrelevant issues for debating good policy have fallen by the wayside. For example, which Democrat or salvageable Repub can say what because of how they voted on what war is not heard much now (partly because BushCheneyRumDum cards on table). Also, since GOP has made it clear that they will try to take down social insurance again next year, the Democrats’ supposed special interest issue cannot get much play. Also, the sheer weight of the GOP corruption scandal on public record is making the “they all do it” meme harder to sell. And Democrats responding more quickly and forcebly to smears, it seems to me.

TNR is pitiful and desperate. Not that I have any sympathy. Fuck them

rat bastahd says:
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 pm
FYI, Cheney on The Situation Room today. Why is the Dark Lord all of a sudden showing his fave in public? Is it because of the Frontline show?

Thinking of you Jane!
———————————————————-
I agree–something’s up. The only time he leaves his Undisclosed Location is when a shoe’s about to drop, or he just needs to shoot someone in the face. I still think Rove might have planted a shiv in him.

a poster named “bilge” posted this brilliant but EPUed comment in the previous thread:

A few more Joe-mentum-isms for your consideration —

Joe-oopted

Joe-rrupt Politician

Complete Joe-ron

“I lost my Mo-Joe!” —Austin Powers

Con-Joe-gal Visits

The International Joeish Conspiracy (bad me! bad bad me!)

Sub-Joe-gation

Re-Joe-cted

Pundits who advocate for Lieberman must be high on Tetrahy-Joe-cannabinol

Lieberman leaves primary voters numb? Must be Joe-vocaine! (No-Joe-caine?)

Joe-botomy

Schitz-Joe-phrenia

Joe-lostomy Bag

rat bastahd says:
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 pm
FYI, Cheney on The Situation Room today. Why is the Dark Lord all of a sudden showing his fave in public? Is it because of the Frontline show?

Thinking of you Jane!
—— ——-
Oops, there’s a third possibility: He may just be out of fresh puppy-blood.

MK at #18, saw the Bureau of Indian Affairs story too on CBS last night. The promo said it was going to be about Abramoff and Indian casino gambling–so I thought, oh no, another story on how Abramoff gave both to Republicans and Democrats.

Instead, it didn’t have any misinformation that I caught, and even noted that those involved included a “who’s who of Republican lobbyists”.

Man. TNR is stirring the wrong hornet’s nest. That kind of shit leads to blogswarm.

definitely not the National Renew

Christy, can we help – LTE’s, anything? Or is just a lost cause…

Joe Lieberman has gone from tragedy to farce in just a few short weeks. What the hell was Al Gore thinking?

Ok what should we do about TNR?

And for the Joe list:

Slo-Mo Joe

Hugh #48 — Thanks. My wife is an anthropologist, so a lot of the concepts are familiar, but I hadn’t seen them applied in quite that way before.

I had another thought about it, which requires a bit of background.

I attended a Lakoff talk at YearlyKos where he talked about liberal and conservative concepts of “freedom” (the subject of the research in his forthcoming book.) One of the things he discovered was that in the conservative mindset, there is no acceptance of the concept of collective responsibility. So, for example, even if they know that too much snowmobiling is harmful to Yellowstone, my snowmobile alone isn’t causing that, so by restricting it, you’re restricting my freedom. In this way, conservatives convince ordinary people that they’re “oppressed” by liberals.

When asked what we could do about it (though he expressly said he didn’t really know, and hadn’t researched that), Lakoff suggested that we’d have to convince those people that they’re being oppressed by conservatives.

Given how much prominence the marriage issue is being given as part of the anti-gay base-fluffing, I wonder if we could pull a bit of jujitsu and turn it around against the forces that are really hurting marriage. Not in anthro terms, of course, but the same concepts — wages are so low that both parents have to work, oppressing married people’s freedom to advance in their careers, or their freedom to choose to stay at home. It needs some work, but I think it could be more effective to blunt the anti-gay-marriage drive and support marriage-friendly policies at the same time than to do them separately.

egregious says
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:32 pm
Ok what should we do about TNR?
———————————————————-
The same thing the rest of the world has been doing about them for the last ten years: Ignore them. They haven’t been relevant since Kinsley left.

The new TNR column is stupid. I don’t even know what the Jerome SEC thing is, and don’t care to find out. Apparently the right wing opposition research people don’t smell a story there, or we would hear about it. The TNR column is a bunch of maybes and mightbes and couldbes and that is about all. This is Kaus territory (pure sillyness). The idea that Digby or Atrios or FDL of half a dozen other people would obey a dictat is nonsense. And the idea that people are afraid to criticize Kos is nonsense, becasue I read criticisms and debates every week.

woa -

Japan 1
Brazil 0

35 min first half

Frank Probst at 63 — So very true. Nothing like insider hack bullshit to drive your subscription numbers into the toilet. Especially when they don’t bother to fact check the first article, nor apologize for factual inaccuracies in the second one.

Jackass.

Holy crap, Blank Kludge. That would be HUGE!

That is such bullshit.I managed to click on that link yesterday before oompa loompa’s lightning fast delete.(wink wink oompa)And it was pretty fucking childish.May I suggest Christy, that fear is a reasonable substitute for respect in some cases?And ,unfortunately, thus is the price of fame? This place is off the charts growthwise.I lurked here for a long time before I ever posted,so I can remember when it still had that small,cozy feel to it.As for TNR, you pretty much said what I’m thinking already.Cup of tea anyone?The jealous little pricks will move on to a new slimeject soon.Just know that we have you and Janes back.

The Nut Rag is just one of the tools in Karl’s kit bag. Vent, Christy, you’ve earned it. But all the rest of us…keep the focus. The mountain’s the prize…let’s move the small stones. Every last frickin’ one of them.

The neocons boasted that they create their own reality and before the msm could catch up they’d be on to the next reality…history’s actors. Well, history’s actors, your 15 minutes are just about up.

Frank Probst — I think they had to send Cheney out to defuse the expectations. There are been stories about the possibility the US would shoot down the N. Korea missile, but I recall the “tests” of the US anti-missile system we’re clearly successful. Anyone remember? The last thing the Admin needed right now was to be pushed into a public, premature test of that system again (undercutting congessional funding), that could easily have failed, never mind the reaction/provocation if they had “succeeded.”

Then the two Clinton wackos come out in favor of a preemptive strike, using cruise missiles — which probably could hit their targets.

I think the Admin had to dampen the goofy expectations and the war fever they themselves had helped create. We saw that in Iran; now in Korea. These guys never think through the consequences of all their immature macho blustering. Just a guess though.

Been listening to Ed Schultz go off on the Dems for this resolution non-starter, and I agree. (Stewart did it too a few nights back.)

I mean, what the fuck? The country’s already there–there’s no need to have a debate about it now–the Rethugs can’t help but spike the ball, again, in the game they won’t let anyone else play, and here come the Dems, only too willing to demonstrate a lack of unity. Jesus, it’s killing me.

So, Harry shut down the Senate one day over the Intel report. Goody. Did we ever fucking get that report? Fuck no! And then Roberts gets on tv and has the nerve to say he authored it! It doesn’t fucking exist!

For a year and a half we’ve needed–the country’s needed–principled, fierce opposition from the minority party. No such thing. A few heroes here and there, some encouraging words, but nothing. If we take House or Senate this year, it will be because the Rethugs dropped the ball.

No-Mo Joe

In all honesty, I had no idea that the Voting Rights Act would be up for renewal. So this fact alone has floored me. Maybe it should be renamed the Temporary Voting Rights Act. I still don’t get it, although I’m assuming it was the only way to get it passed at the time.

These guys in the House are just shameless.

I just finished reading the transcript of John Edwards’ speech at The Center for American Progress today. It’s a powerful piece, truly inspiring and full of hope, especially for our friends on the Gulf Coast still reeling from Katrina.

He’s got my nod for 2008 if Al doesn’t jump in.

ThIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY:

Bush is asked about poll numbers which show that 36 percent of Europeans view the US as the greatest threat to global stability. No word of Iraq.

Yet the US geisha press is reporting that bush was asked about polls showing European disatisfaction with US’s Iraq policy. This is how it was reported last nite on NPR but having read Froomkin, I knew this was a lie.

Amazing at how the US media spins the fact that the Euros view the US as the greatest threat to global stability into “disatisfaction over Iraq.” What are they worried about? That we can’t handle the truth? That it makes Chimpy look bad?

Casey just rattled a sabre against Iran– he says they are training and arming sunnis in Iraq.

Crank it up, boys!

OK, here is what is the really big story in my mind. The August blog FDL has decided to have an economics column. And it even ginned up enough interest for a few commenters to question the credentials of Ian Welsh and ask for properly *credentialed* economic commentary. My my my. Will wonders never cease.

I think Welsh’s column was just fine. I would like to see a book salon by an economist on a particular topic. Or maybe a salon based on a easy to read article by one of them (since their books may not be suitable for lay audience).

Here are suggestions.
Joseph Stiglitz (mentioned in Soros book salon announcement yesterday).
David Card -Berkeley (Labor markets)
Alan B. Krueger -Princeton (Labor markets and all sorta other stuff, http://www.irs.princeton.edu/krueger/)
Herbert Gintis -Santa Fe Institute (political economy, cooperation and competition)
Samuel Bowles -University of Massachusetts (political economy, institutions, property rights and markets, http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~bowles/)
Robert H. Frank -Cornell University (economics of social status and power, http://www.johnson.cornell.edu…..les/frank/)
His books:
–The Winner-Take-All Society : Why the Few at the Top Get So Much More Than the Rest of Us
–Passions Within Reason
–Luxury Fever
–Choosing the Right Pond : Human Behavior and the Quest for Status
–What Price the Moral High Ground? : Ethical Dilemmas in Competitive Environments
Mark Thoma -Univeristy of Oregon (http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/)
Some good non-economists for social security, each with a good blog. These folks have no official economic credentials either, but solid info and understanding.
Bruce Webb (social security) (http://bruceweb.blogspot.com/)
Lee Arnold (social security) (http://www.ecolanguage.net/)

Christy,

am thinking it would please our Jane to see Ailes weighing in -

The Power Of The Short Leash

pusillanimous parasite “Jason Zengerle posits that people will do absolutely anything to keep on the good side of their financial benefactor.

I think that’s a remarkably depraved view of human nature, but then I’ve never toiled underneath Martin Peretz.”

the pxxxpxxx stuff is me, not Roger

FP — whoops! I’meant the anti-missile test were NOT clearly successful. Hence there would be a large risk that the attempt to shoot down the N.Korea missile would fail.

Digby has a new post out about Rove’s bait-and-switch on Iraq, saying to Dems please don’t fall for this shit again.
He also talks about Matalin in 1992 making some ridiculous comment, having to apologize about it, but getting the idea out there. Along those lines, does anybody really think Santorum and Hoekstra did that press conference last night on their own initiative? In this week of the big turnaround on Iraq?
I wonder how many potential messenger boys ‘n’ girls Rove had to go through before he got to Santorum …..

scarecrow @ 71

Help me out here, because I don’t understand this. Presumably, the North Koreans have radar. They have a long-range missle on the launchpad, fueled and ready to go. If we launch cruise missles at their ICBM, won’t they just fire it? Our missles will hit their empty launch pad, and theirs will hit, well, probably the Pacific Ocean, but let’s say Anchorage, just for argument’s sake. The timeline would then be: (1) The US launched a pre-emptive attack on Korea. (2) Korea retaliated. Yes?

whoops– Casey said shia insurgents, not sunnis.

Little housekeeping idea. If you are using cut and run paste including apostrophes, quotations, dashes, or … it is necessary to replace these before posting.

Otherwise we end up trying to read good ideas thru percentage signs and odd numbers, sort of written static.

scarecrow #76 – no need to have cleared that up. Your typo came off as good snark.

renaldo w/header ties it 1-1 just afore halftime.

Joemofo

That would be:momentum forgotten

(Nah, I’m sh*t’n ya, that’s not what it stands for…)

~

Frank Probst,
Cruise missiles are terrain huggers. They fly under radar. The whole preemptive strike idea is yet ANOTHER bug fuck crazy idea from my viewpoint.North Korea is sabre rattling for attention again.And Stupie McFuckhead can’t see it for what it is.

I don’t think any of this would happen. However, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that the US has missile-carrying submarines within a short distance of N. Korea at all times. So I don’t assume that if the US wanted to take out the N.Korea missile on the pad, that they couldn’t do so before the N.Koreans launched. I understand this is a test at a test site that requires extensive prepration to launch, not a fully operable ICBM or IRBM that can be launched at a moment’s notice. This is what I assume Cheney means by calling this system “rudimentary.”

My larger point is that I don’t agree with the logic that the Korean’s would deliberately strike the US or believe that they would be immune from immediate retailiation if they did so. Hence, I conclude that is not their plan.

scarecrow at 70: Did you mean “weren’t successful?” The anti-missile system tests have been so unsuccessful that Rumsfeld exempted it from the normal Pentagon testing requirements. Doesn’t that make you feel good about how likely it is to work? And then Bush declared part of it “operational” just in time for the 2004 election, even though it was nowhere near working.

Fast forward to this week, when he “turned it on” in response to the rumored North Korean missile test.

The entire thing is nothing but a source of PR and another contractor boondoggle, another way for Republicans to loot the Treasury and pretend to be “strong” while failing to do the things that would actually protect us.

(I knew some engineers who worked on “Star Wars” in the Reagan era. They knew it couldn’t work, but the Pentagon insisted on handing out large amounts of cash for it, so their company figured it might as well go to them as somewhere else.)

Highlights from first half indicate the score might be 5 or 6 to 1, Brazil. The Japanese goalkeeper is a sorcerer.

Redshift — Yes. My normal typing skills managed to reverse the meaning; and thanks for recalling what I remember. The earlier test “success” was a euphymism for “it didn’t work.” The system works as well as my typing.

hey lawyers !

can I use this Heather’s image & name in a blog labelled ‘parody’ without getting sued ?

Here we go again….Rummy’s briefing right now. Apparently it is IRAN that is funding and providing weapons to Iraq’s insurgency….like Bush said anyone who harbors or helps terrorist. Unbelieveable, these guys don’t give a $&%! about our soldiers, our intelligence communities, or our laws. I am so completely fed up with these morally bankrupt war mongering fools! Sorry about the venting…

Just want to give my best to both Jane and her mom. Please take care of your family and yourself; please do not worry about FDL!

That missile program would be a footnote to what you get when you type ‘dismal failure’ into google.(chuckle)

Good news in the “War On Terror” front from the AP (sorry about the Salon link. Google News and Yahoo News both appear to be TU at the moment):

June 22,2006 | PITTSBURGH — Former Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge, speaking at the opening of a new RAND Corp. office, said the war on terror is likely to last for decades, much like the Cold War.

But the Senate is gettin’ ‘ur done:

WASHINGTON Jun 22, 2006 (AP)%u2014 The GOP-controlled Senate on Thursday rejected Democratic calls to start withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq by year’s end, as the two parties sought to define their election-year positions on a war that has grown increasingly unpopular.

cbl @ 92

I think the word you’re looking for is satire but pay a real lawyer to put their butt on the line to get a real opinion…

Scarecrow at 80: The earlier test “success” was a euphymism for “it didn’t work.”

Why not? This works for Bush and Cheney.

Frank Probst at 80: I believe the logic is that it will take weeks for North Korea to get the missile “fueled and ready to go,” and in the meantime, it’s in plain view. So if one were to do this (which I think would be insane), one wouldn’t have to wait until the last minute.

Another important point to mention if you get involved in a conversation about this is that while NK is believed to have nuclear bombs, and relatively long-range missiles, they don’t have nuclear bombs small enough for their missiles to carry. Making nukes small is even harder than making them in the first place, and rational estimates are that they won’t be able to do that until something like 2016, even if we continue to have insane administrations that don’t negotiate effectively.

A lot of the fear-mongering (which I hear echoes of even here, though mostly joking) is based on a “North Korean nuclear missile,” which they just don’t have.

wesgpc @ 12:41 pm (#77) Hard to see what economists could have added to that article other than obfuscation. The basic point would be unchanged, which is that from the perspective of someone looking for work the people the government ignores when it talks about the unemployment rates are important, too. For them, or people trying to figure out how the economy is really doing, those other statistics need to be taken into account.

Redshift says
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Frank Probst at 80: I believe the logic is that it will take weeks for North Korea to get the missile “fueled and ready to go,” and in the meantime, it’s in plain view. So if one were to do this (which I think would be insane), one wouldn’t have to wait until the last minute.
———————————————————-
My reading of the news stories was that it was gassed up and ready for takeoff. I thought that was the big deal in the first place–that once you’ve filled them up with fuel, it’s not that easy to un-fuel them, so you may as well just launch the damn thing.

Unbelievable– joking and hee hawing at the DoD presser. NOTHING is funny about this– but the joking continues. Some in the press corpse just can’t help themselves. ego before decorum or truth. gah.

Guys, some bad news. New thread.

New Thread.

Not to be missed in the Froomkin column Christy links above is Josh Marshall’s presentation of polling data during World War II showing definitively that the American people’s support for the war and for Roosevelt did NOT decline around the time of the Battle of the Bulge, as claimed the other day (with no evidence)by Tony Snowjob. What a tool.

Christy, it’s all I can do to follow the links that you and commenters are providing today. I don’t have time to go out exploring on my own in the world of news reporting!

A link to that AP article on Tom Ridge at Yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..hvBHNlYwM-

Scarcer resources (petroleum, water, arable land) and mass migrations are what I see as the “perfect storm”. Both cause conflict and aggression. We are already enmeshed in the petroleum resource wars (and have been, to some extent, for the past 100 years): with its invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan, the US is positioning itself to control the Middle East. Unfortunately, many of the inhabitants don’t like this move, resulting in continuing violence.

If an estimated 12 million illegals in the US (with perhaps 40% of them arriving in the last 5 years) is not mass migration, I don’t know what is. The nation is poised to erupt in turmoil over this state of affairs. Similar mass migrations are taking place from the African continent into Europe.

Global warming, with its uncertain results, may result in increasing drought in certain areas while other regions are drowned in moonsoon-like conditions. If ocean levels rise from melting polar ice, then huge populations from low-lying cities such as Shanghai and Mumbai will be on the move. And it may not be a gradual inundation; look at New Orleans.

And, we are spending billion of dollars and wasting thousands of lives to secure petroleum reserves that may end up as greenhouse gases, hastening the planet’s warming trend. God, we are so f**ked up as a nation.

Here’s a dkos diary from our own Redshift about changes in my old neighborhood. Northern Virginia: Is it trending Blue?

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/6/22/1525/56423

If you want to share you anger/frustration/thoughts about the global warming thing, ABC news wants to hear it.

They are asking for people to send in stories to add to their upcoming report on global warming.

Cujo #100: You misunderstand. I wasn’t suggesting getting those folks to amplify on Welsh’s post on labor markets from yesterday in particular. You are also right that there is little additional understanding that could be added to the basic point of that post. I am just slinging propaganda and ideas for more economics posts in general. I thought that what was the idea of this and previous thread this morning by Christy.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2105967

ATT is claiming ownership of telephone records and can do with them as they please, within the limits of the law. Technicall, I can see their point. But the ethical side is not so clear cut.

Good thing I dumped ATT as my ISP over a year ago and the long distance about a month ago. (not that I made many long distance calls….)

I see the Jerome Armstrong thing is spilling into FDL comments. I’m in the securities biz, and cruised through a number of the links on that story. Notwithstanding that this was resurrected as an attack by people with an agenda, I would not get too invested in defending Armstrong; it looks to be a losing proposition.

First, looking at the complaint itself, the details available about the settlement, and quotes from Armstrong himself so far, I don’t have a lot of confidence that he was NOT involved in unethical behavior at a minimum. It doesn’t look good, and he hasn’t said anything that I’ve seen to lay those concerns to rest.

Second, what he is accused of is slimy, and has victims.

Third, this will be used (unfairly) as a weapon against the entire progressive netroots. At this point, if he cares about his movement, he needs to defend himself if the allegations are false, or show public contrition and “lessons learned” if they are true. It is past the point of laying low and waiting for it to blow over, that ain’t gonna happen.

RE: TNR

It just occurred to me that they’re picking a fight with FDL to stir up controversy and increase web hits. I fell for it yesterday. They’re going to do whatever it takes to increase circulation, even if it’s from people who want to throw rocks at them. I’m betting it’s somehow revenue related. Here’s what we do: no linking, no visiting, no “giving them any oxygen.” BOYCOTT TNR!!!

Damn. I’m always too late for these. Oh well, here’s my “news” post:

A word about my local media. Over the years, my ABC affiliate, KTXS, has made some serious(ly idiotic) mistakes in reporting the news.

Never mind that the Meteorologist says East when he means West, but when he says “I’d like to call your attention to that Tropical looking thingy down there.” Ya gotta wonder…

Or when the sportscaster stumbles and says “…suffered a growin’ injury”…Yikes!

But the worst is in the news itself:

When a major company wanted to move to a local town, it was reported that the permit was denied because the company allowed their employees to list their “significant others” to participate in company sponsored health coverage. The local people “don’t approve of that kind of tax”.

Just a few days ago, a report on the war on drugs had our guys in South America destroying “cocoa plants”…

God save us.

you are correct witchy woman

YKos was a huge wake up call to many who consider themselves “established & important” media

even an abject idiot could see a thousand folks in Vegas, means hundreds of thousands of equally passionate & committed folks NOT in Vegas – and these past few years of dismissing us as ‘fringe’ dissipated before their eyes

so here they come, and I for one would like to see us at this site ignore their catty (and failing) asses

Audrey,

are you still here ?

if so, are you part of the Texas Roots project ?

am only asking b/c I have world’s WORST e mail in that I cn receive it, but can not open it and I so want to start participating in the group’s projects

Voting Right Act makes it a LEGAL CRIME to subvert votes.

Repugs have been BUSTED for actively trashing ballots of Black TROOPS serving in IRAQ! It’s a FACT.

These crooks can’t win legally – and know if the Voting Rights Act passes – they will be indicted. We’ll see what happens – but there MUST BE something good AMERICANS can do now to PROTECT THE VOTE!

http://www.gregpalast.com/deta…..&row=1

Diane Lane fans might want to catch A Walk on the Moon which was a quiet film and actually quite good (as was she).

And for those of us that bat for the other team, there is an early Viggo Mortensen. ‘Nuff said.

It was directed by Tony Goldwyn, who is under appreciated as an actor and an example of when a “Name” is like detention rather than a perpetual hall pass.

He’s also easy on the eyes (Goldwyn) though he’s behind the camera here.

cbl,

Just refreshed comments and saw your post. Yes, I’m a moderator in the Texas group. We’ll find out what’s wrong. (Would be helpful to know what you signed up under. You can email me at bumpkin1 at caprock-spur dot com.)

Also, cbl, if you want to read the posts you can go to the website:

http://groups.google.com/group/stateproject-texas

HTH
Audrey

Here’s one I caught on WaPo this morning

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..components

Just more fuel to the “perfect storm”.

How about in “The 1% Doctrine” where Bush tells the CIA briefer “now you’ve covered your ass” after he delivers the ol’ Usama Bin Laden determined to attack in the US” briefing…Hmmm