
Dan Froomkin participated in an online WaPo chat today, talking about recent columns and the latest news. And he got a question about the Frontline Dark Side documentary from last night, that I wanted to highlight for everyone:
Plano, Tex: Love your work you are a must read every day. Watched the Frontline special yesterday. It has tons of evidence of the VP’s office manipulating intelligence data, repeating unverified intelligence reports and hiding information that did not conforme to the conclusion that the VP needed to justify the war. Given that this was used to decieve the congress and the public why isn’t the media willing to state categorically that the Administration has lied repeatedly. From what I see using the euphamisms for lie make it easier for the administration to justify the war and its outcome. Whereas if we called these guys on their lies it might make the the debate on the war proceed to the next level. Explicitly holding people accountable would probably mean a change in players and a new approach to the war itself. Right now with the same players all we seem to get is CYA
Dan Froomkin: Thanks. You’re referring to "The Dark Side," the PBS Frontline documentary that aired last night. They’ve also got supplemental material on their Web site . I thought it was a good show. Nothing particularly revelatory for those of us who have been watching closely, but it did a good job of putting in context what’s so wrong about going public with unvetted (and in many cases utterly spurious) intelligence. You can get yourself and your country in real trouble that way.
Also, to see former CIA officer Paul Pillar so sincerely express regret for his role in the writing of the Iraq NIE was very powerful. His piece for NiemanWatchdog.org, advising the press not to get fooled again the next time policymakers abuse intelligence, becomes particularly poignant.
On the issue of lying, I wrote a column a while back about how hard it is for journalists to use that word: I called it Bush’s Lie. Journalists couldn’t bring themselves to use the word even after something as straightforward as Bush lying about John Snow’s future.
Columbia University professor and press critic Todd Gitlin addresses this issue in the American Prospect, in his review of Eric Boehlert’s new book, "Lapdogs: How the Press Rolled Over for Bush."
Journalists behave this way, Gitlin writes, because: "To be oppositional — to call a falsehood a falsehood — would ill-comport with the absurd standard of fairness that guarantees, in their eyes, their professional status."
But guess what? The American public is way ahead of the media on this one. As I wrote on Feb. 3 — It’s the Credibility, Stupid — and it had been the case for a while before that — most Americans don’t find Bush honest and trustworthy, and most feel the administration inentionally misled the public in making the case for war.
I guess they just read between the lines, God bless ‘em.
That said, the lines should tell the real story, too.
I’ve been trying to find any mention of the Frontline documentary on the television news and/or in print, other than by Froomkin. Anyone find/see anything as yet? If so, please share in the comments.
Oh, and Froomkin’s White House Briefing column is great today as well. Who knew Safavian worked in the White House? *cough* (Yeah, that was snide, but I’m feeling a little snide today as we attempt nap 2.0…)
PS — Forgot to update on Jane’s mom — she’s out of the ICU now, had a little rough patch yesterday evening, but is holding her own as of early this afternoon. Please keep Jane, her mom and her family in thoughts and prayers, and we’ll keep things going as best we can for a while longer as Jane survives on bad hospital coffee and cafeteria food.



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Dan! Christy! Jane! Digby! Fitz!
“Last Throes”: 85 Shiite workers abducted from plant in Sunni area.
And a big 0 to moi.
Finally back from class! Fitz, Redd, Dover B, Impeach!
OT – But thought ya’ll might get a kick outta this one. Notice the ad in green for Ney, and the article it’s attached with.
Safavian guilty in corruption probe
Buwahahaha! – Life’s little pleasures. :o)
nap? that’s so 2004…
seriously, how come the people that want a nap, like me for example, aren’t able to take one but the ones that could be napping don’t want to take one?
and then you’ve got a whole nother category: the press, which for some f*cking reason is always napping…
Christy -
The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06…..0stan.html
Philadelphia Daily News
http://www.philly.com/mld/dail…..858301.htm
al-Scooter,
you made it….your first?
Christy,
The “television news and/or print story” is the next story that needs to be told.
Oh man. That Frontline episode is gonna get PBS’s funding cut for sure.
Oh, naps…there’s this point where suddenly they don’t want to take any more naps. Problem is, it often happens before they are ready to take on a whole day without a nap…so cranky rules the house. If you are truely blessed, like we were, you get two children who decide at a *very* early age that naps are for babies and they ain’t gonna take no more stinking naps. And that, my friends, is a very good way to determine if you are truely cut out for parenthood.
Interestingly, if you wanted to watch The Dark Side on PBS in DC last night, you had to watch it on the Baltimore PBS station, because the DC PBS station showed a rerun. Hmmmm….
Christy, AMERICAblog has that photo of Boosh autographing the American flag and a story that he’s just done the same in Vienna. I’d like to see the blogs keep it up and get it into MSM before the vote on a flag-burning amendment.
The most productive impeachment in government today would be that of Antonio Scalia.
An inhouse blogger for SF Gate (online SF Chronicle) comments on The Dark Side
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..ry_id=6358
Naschktze — I know that photo. We ran it a couple of weeks ago when Wedge Issue June started with Frist’s agenda getting announced for the Senate. But it’s a good issue to keep bringing up — not least because, last I heard, the Senate was one vote shy of passing it this time. So much for that whole freedom of speech thing…
Larry, (if you’re still there)
I think I recall you asking awhile back about the missing billions in Iraq. This update from today’s Wayne Madsen Report:
[snip]
WMR was the first to speculate that Merrill’s death was more than an accident, as reported last week by the mainstream media. WMR learned that while Merrill, a close friend of Vice President Dick Cheney and financial backer of a number of neo-conservative organizations, was the head of the U.S. Export-Import Bank, the bank made a number of dubious loans to the U.S.-run Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) in Iraq and a successor agency known as the Trade Bank of Iraq. In November 2003, $500 million in credit was extended to the Trade Bank of Iraq by the US Export-Import Bank. Much of the money was used to facilitate U.S. “exports” to Iraq, which was actually used to pay major U.S. contractors operating in the occupied country. A 2005 audit report by the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction concluded that “the CPA did not establish or implement sufficient managerial, financial and contractual controls to ensure that funds were used in a transparent manner.” The report stated that $8.8 billion allocated to the CPA was unaccounted for.
Petro — amazing that the articles appear to be reviews of TV shows??? And the Phila- article says, in effect, “well this was interesting, but I don’t like the title.” I think “The Dark Side” is a rather polite way to describe how an Administration lied to/misled the American people into starting a war that cost the lives of tens of thousands of people. But gosh, perhaps “shades of gray,” or “little white lies” would have been better titles.
Sashland, further to your comment in the “Prelude” post, below:
One: No, it was not the same thing as fixing the intelligence. What Frontline pulled together were the relationships and the power structure, and tracked the events in light of those things. Even had the intelligence been accurate, the story Frontline was telling was about how things worked and who was pulling the strings.
Two: It was “The Dark Side” because what was in the light – what was told to and shown to the public, and even to the UN and Congress – was altogether different from what was known on the “dark side of the moon,” out of the scrutiny of those who, if they had known more, would not have been supportive.
Three: I agree that it’s a big boo-boo, but whether the uranium was “bought” or “sought” matters only if either or both had actually occurred; they didn’t. Yes, accuracy is important, but it’s ironic that you seem to be a stickler for it, given the inaccuracy of much of the information which was used as a basis for making the case for war.
Four: How deep should they have gone? They went down to the level of those who actually saw the intelligence, to those who were in the chain of the intelligence, to those who were on the ground and who staffed and served at all levels.
Again, Frontline wasn’t making or unmaking the case for war – it was examining how the case was made. It’s hard to do that without using the information that formed that case, and without showing how things were filtered up to the point where they formed the case. The people involved were the key.
Five: Can’t speak for anyone else, but it was clear to me that the decision to go to war had already been made. Tenet, knowing Bush wanted to go to war, did not want to disappoint Bush by being honest about the depth and reliability of the intelligence, hence the “slam dunk.”
Was it a flat-out lie for Bush to claim there were WMD? If you take the position that he is at the top of the chain of command, and ultimately responsible for what he presents to the American people, he lied by omission. He lied by not presenting the entire body of evidence, and that others agreed to go along with the deception does not render the deception acceptable.
Finally, for Frontline to get all the chips on the table would probably require something along the lines of impeachment proceedings…now, there’s an idea.
Don’t know about Antonio, but Antonin Scalia would be fun to wave bye-bye to.
Christy,
It got some print coverage…
http://news.search.yahoo.com/n…..=Frontline &c=
Anne 18:
}}}}}APPLAUSE{{{{{
There’s a wonderful post by Josh Marshall, basically a smackdown of Snow re his snarky comment about polling during the Battle of the Bulge. Turns out that the government did poll public opinion during the War, and the BOTB was included. More and more it looks like the Snowman is just another empty-headed pretty face with a sonorous voice. At least with Scotty you could sense his pain. Snow is oblivious to his own vapidity.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/
Re Safavian, this CBS piece http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..6553.shtml has to take the the cake, with the title: Safavian Who?
Gosh, just amazing how no one knows who this guy is or what he’s done.
Some print coverage…
Louisville Courier
Hartford Courant
Centre Daily Times
http://news.search.yahoo.com/n…..=Frontline &c=
Anne 18: nice job.
Cozumel — the LA Times article seems to have missed the main points, as though the problem was Tenet compromising intelligence to maintain access to the daily briefings. Just another D.C. story, folks; move along.
Thanks MK…..had not heard about that.
I’ve been assembling or cobbling a lot of this type info together for some time now….
my dad always said if you want the soul truth and proof……just follow the money
Sharkbabe has class!
Damn, I have no class.
oxide,
Oh man. That Frontline episode is gonna get PBSs funding cut for sure.
not so fast. Bush’s “PBS crony stooge” :(Boehlert) Tomlinson is the subject of no less than 3 Inspector General investigations for all kinds of “partisan mischief”, apparently his replacement (he was fired last Dec) is keeping their hands off – for now
http://stygius.typepad.com/sty….._hole.html
Fun with whiners. My reply to the reply in the Las Vegas Sun.
_____
To the editors
Ken Lucas (June 19th) takes me to task for my unvarnished characterization of various members of the Bush chickenhawk battalion as “vile cowards,” and asks poignantly “My, whatever happened to civility in public discourse?”
Good question. He might well start by posing it to the All-Time Undefeated Lightweight Fecal Polemical Mudwrestling Champion of the Universe, the scurrilous GOP Screechwoman Ann Coulter, whose DNA nucleotide letter symbols are simply H-A-T-E. I am an unranked amateur in the vitriol department by comparision.
As to the rest of his rejoinder, I would pose my own question to Mr. Lucas: how many straw man and red herring non sequiturs can you pack into one short editorial letter?
Anne – thank you – I don’t thank you often enough.
thank you thank you thank you …
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..p?id=24173
Anne, 18:
Spot-on commentary.
OT, but I just found this article by John Byrnes in Raw Story:
The House Judiciary Committee unexpectedly passed a Democratic resolution Wednesday morning calling on the Justice Department to turn over all requests made by the National Security Agency and other federal agencies to telephone service providers to obtain information without a warrant.
The measure was passed by a voice vote Wednesday morning with support of Republican Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI). It was introduced by Florida Democrat Robert Wexler.
What do you guys and gals think is going on?
Speaking of applause….
RIGHT ON Bobby G .
Re: traditional media coverage, Google news links under the search term “Frontline Dark Side” has several articles listed. Looks like much of it was pre-show, though clearly some reviewers had seen it (with generally favorable reactions).
The bad news: PBS is being co-opted by Bushbot National Review “writer” Warren Bell. The cronyism continues – Bell admits he’s a pal because he poured money into W’s 2004 campaign. Think Progress has all the gory details here. ‘Round and ’round we go.
Just to highlight something Froomkin brought up.
“Nothing particularly revelatory for those of us who have been watching closely,…”
That’s part of the problem. The MSM is aware of what’s going on, but don’t report it. When it finally does reach the public, the MSM treats it as old news. Well it is old news… to the media. But not to those the media never told.
scarecrow,
“the LA Times article seems to have missed the main points, as though the problem was Tenet compromising intelligence to maintain access to the daily briefings. Just another D.C. story, folks; move along.”
Make me wonder if the writer even watched it!?
Beautiful, Mary – loved every word!
Don Smith, I think I’ve seen some questionable material in Scalia’s past and don’t think you’re off base suggesting that he could be impeached if we had the right political climate.
And Mary’s words were on the previous thread. This is what happens when you have multiple windows open…
Larry #7:
My first since the migration from the old site. Thanks!
Anne #18:
Excellent summary! Personally, I was opposed to the Iraq war from the beginning, but I kept an open mind until Powell’s UN presentation. Then it was clear that the fix had been in.
I guess he had to say something in NYC; but I was pretty shocked that, with State having its own intel analytical capability, old pros like him and Armitage kept stuff in Scooter’s straw man draft that seemed more like a sci-fi comic book than real life.
Terre -that is pretty funny. I like how the ad is boxed right next to Ney quotes on his golf trip.
Anne, once again, the best. ;) My response is EPU’d and isn’t nearly and good as yours, but for the fact that I reveal Cheney’s secret PR firm nickname.
Mr. Chips.
I don’t think Sashland is awake yet. He’s still dreaming about Mary’s right hook.
DROP WHAT YOU’RE DOING RIGHT NOW AND GO SEE WHAT MARY JUST DID TO “SASHLAND” AT 118, LAST THREAD
RUN
LAST ONE IN’S A ROTTEN EGG!
Bobby G #30 – don’t forget to mention shooter’s “go F-yourself”
guess I’m gonna go over and see what Mary did, but come on guys – the field marks screamed “concern troll” from a mile awy in that thread
Birdman 46 -
Y’know, that’s an excellent point. Yeah.
My only problem with that Frontline (other than its abrupt ending) was that it barely covered Condi’s involvement and allowed Tenet to be more of a lightning rod than he ought to be. Not saying he’s blameless, just that he came out looking worse than practically everybody.
There were a number of little opportunities to show other people’s involvement, too. For example, it would have been easy to point out, when Powell was speaking and insisted that Tenet sit behind him, that Negroponte was the other guy in the shot and he’s now in charge of our intelligence. Little things like that would have made it better.
Nitpicking, I know.
cbl – yeah, that’s true, but sometimes if you swat at the flies, they go away…*g*
Pertinent to Steve Gilliard’s great post this morning regarding Tony Snow’s invocation of the Battle of the Bulge, Josh Marshall put up a post this afternoon that knocks Snow’s legs out from under him.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..008804.php
FDR was polling American opinion about the war, and the charts Marshall includes in his post show that there was no decline in support of the war during the BOTB timeframe.
While on the topic, someone should point out that the BOTB began 3 years and 9 days after the US entered the war on Pearl Harbor day (3 years and 5 days, IIRC, after the US declared war on Germany in response to Hitler’s declaration of same on US.) During those 3 years the US and its allies rolled back huge Axis gains in Africa, eastern and western Europe, the central and southwest Pacific and east Asia. Today the position of the US and its ‘coalition’ in Iraq is in worse shape that it was 3 years and 6 or so weeks after the ‘Mission Accomplished’ strut on the USS Abraham Lincoln off San Diego. And we now know that the administration’s incompetence already had us irretrieveably down the slippery slope at that time. The problem was and still is the Cheney-Rumsfeld clique’s inability to listen to those with occupation experience regarding t he needed staffing levels.
Why doesn’t some Democratic pol stand up and scream this point?
Much like Farenheit 911 the Frontline piece ingnored ample documented evidence that Israel (under Sharon) and AIPAC were lobbying for this war hard, very hard. We can’t get to the bottom of this fiasco, or prevent it from happening again, if people are afraid of the 800 lb gorilla in the center of the room.
OT but FDL-related. Did anyone already mention this?
Barbara Boxer showed up at Kos and got her hat handed to her on Lieberman. Jane and FDL linked….
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..12260/4522
Oops…Preznit got his Cheney caught in the door on the way into Iraq…and it hurts!
Christy, I so apologize — that was rude. But I just couldn’t help myself.
Christy?
Uh … Christy?
Well, when you get back, then.
“LAST ONE IN’S A ROTTEN EGG!”
KA-POW! MARY!!!!!!!
good stuff last night. i like the way they saved the plame outing for the end. nice climax to it all and it really set cheney up as the bad guy…
what really struck me though, was how invisible president bush was through it all. he was like a bit player despite, yanno, being president and all…
cbl, yes, but in Mary’s defense:
“I know it was a Troll House cookie recipe, but I had this glass of ice cold milk and . . .”
Priceless.
“sought” or “bought”, do you really think it matters to these families ?
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..p?id=24168
Dover Bitch.
you want nit picking ? I’ve always wondered why Negroponte was wearing a translation ear piece while Powell was pontificating
and the average viewer probably did not feel the weight or significance of Kay’s question about “the National Security Adviser” although Vanity Fair answered it publicly 3 years ago by characterizing her as “pre eminent Courtier”
Larry,
Could be the The Soprano’s in Overdrive
From the same article at WMR: The body of Maryland publisher Philip Merrill was discovered Monday in the Chesapeake Bay near Poplar Island with a gunshot wound to the head and weighed down with an anchor
Official cause of death: Suicide.
With this kind of money it’s possible bodies will be dropping like flies…
~
The “Every Senator In Accordance With Their Own Self-Interest” Political Party, still widely known as the Democratic Party in the Senate, has sent me around the bend this week. I loathe them.
By “them” I mean the Senators who curry favor with Harry Reid, and who Harry Reid in return pets and caters to, at the expense of:
1. Our nation and its Constitution.
2. Principle and doing the right thing for the American people.
3. Opposing Republican destruction in every possible way.
4. The 20 or so senators in his political party who wish to stand up for 1, 2 & 3.
What has done it for me, in a way that I really can’t completely put into words, and which has me willing defeat on the cowardly contingent of these go-it-aloners enabled by Harry Reid, is the fraud of a non-binding resolution being marketed as a different product than the Republican position of open-ended colony-creating empire building in Iraq. Carl Levin, Jack Reed, Dianne Feinstein, and Ken Salazar, backed up by Harry Reid, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Chris Dodd, Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy and on, and on — know that their Sense of the Senate non-binding resolution is effectively meaningless and would change NOTHING on the ground in Iraq, in the event it passed the Senate.
But they are cynically pretending that it is what it is not, simply in order to garner favor with the uninformed who are watching the speeches today in the Senate, and to try to remove the whole topic of Iraq from the election campaign this year (so no one can ‘call them names and taunt them’ on the campaign trail). Nothing in their non-binding PR resolution (which calls for the President, at his discretion, to submit a plan to them six months from now for a phased withdrawal of our troops from Iraq at some unknown date or dates well after 2006) would change a damn thing on the ground for either our Armed Forces in Iraq, or for the long-suffering Iraqi civilians. But these Senators couldn’t care less, as long as the country buys their sales pitch, hook, line, and sinker and follows up by entrusting their political party with its votes this November.
After November, should a Democratic majority be gained, and this duplicitous behavior and underlying cooperation with the Republican agenda by the members of their party continue exactly as it is unfolding today – without unity, or priniciple, or conviction, or duty to country or Constitution – whose fault will that be? And what leverage will then exist to change the party’s behavior??
John Kerry, Russ Feingold, and Barbara Boxer (and others who will speak this evening) aren’t playing that fraudulent game with us. Yet they muzzle themselves about the disingenuous political games of their colleagues, and many Democrats and Americans haven’t even noticed the difference being played out in the Senate today as a result. The amendment these three offer America IS binding. It actually requires an end to our violent occupation of Iraq, instead of naively calling for another plan from a hostile, bad-faith and vindictive President.
Knowing, as everyone involved does, that neither amendment will actually pass the Senate because of the opposition of the unified Republican Endless-War Party, the whole point to this debate is to let America know: What is the unified position of the Democratic Party with regard to Iraq?
Today, the answer is crystal clear:
1. We are not unified now; so take it to the bank we won’t be post-November.
And
2. Most of us are just fine with the idea of an American colony called Iraq which is now being ’stood up’ by the Bush-Cheney administration, as long as we aren’t blamed for it by the voters in November (even though our votes helped make the colony possible), and nevermind the cost in human life, and national treasure.
And
3. To allow #1 and #2 to stay under the radar and off the front pages, deceptive con games of rhetoric soothingly played for America by some half-hearted speeches void of passion on the Senate floor are the highest calling of our political party under Harry Reid.
[I’m sorry to offend any remaining true believers in this political party — but they’ve turned against me and every American now to the point of no return; they never unite when it matters, especially in the Senate. I simply can’t enable that political party any longer with my benefit of the doubt; those who act with principle and courage like the Senators speaking tonight will be (and as those like Ned Lamont and Jon Tester and a handful of other candidates do and as Howard Dean tries to do) will individually get credit and support from me, completely apart from that alleged establishment political party which they most definitely do not represent in any way, shape or form.]
scarecrow,
doncha worry, love Mary and could smell the burning concern troll flesh from this thread although I did go over and read her game/set/match haymaker
(Mary makes fists, extends index fingers, blows on right one, blows on left one)
lhp at 117 last thread,
I came away from “The Dark Side” convinced I had seen an Emmy winner and wondering if there was not some way to coax this into theatrical release thereby making it eligible for an Oscar.
Sad to say, Frontline can’t simply put this in a theater to qualify for an Oscar®. According to the AMPAS website
Sad to say, if it ain’t on the big screen first, it ain’t gonna happen. It sounds kind of like asking someone really snooty to the prom: “If I’m not your first choice, I don’t want to go with you.”
Dover Bitch — I too was hoping for more on Condi, but when they got to the point of asking, “Where was the National Security Advisor?” showing a picutre of Rice, that was enough. There is obviously more that could have been said about the whole bunch, but it would have taken hours.
My take was that they portrayed Tenet not as the worst but as somewho who tried to tell the truth at first but then relented in telling them enough of what they wanted to hear to retain access — someone not strong enough to retain his honor — and the Sec of State the same way. But the Cheney group were in a class by themselves.
With the almost complete collapse of public support and the growing disillusionment of their most ardent apologists, the Occupation of the White House by the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld terrorist organization has turned the corner, and is now entering it’s last throes.
cbl at 59 — when you spend a lot of time around the UN at the meetings, you just get used to the translation earpiece being in — and you just turn it off and on at the switch rather than taking it in and out all the time (THAT gets old really quickly). (I did some work for the UN running a conference in college, and spent some time at the HQ watching the goings-on because I had a handy NGO pass — one that they likely don’t hand out to college kids running this particular conference any longer, I’m sad to say, because it was some amazing experience watching the diplomacy and discussion first hand…)
Thanks for the heads-up lotus at 1:10, cbl, and everyone else.
Mary says:
June 21st, 2006 at 12:58 pm
That’s rocking a “concern troll’s” world without resorting to obscenities.
Like Al-scooter at 42, I also was against the war from the beginning, but when I watched Colin Powell’s presentation to the U.N., I thought it was impressive (with all the 8″ * 10″ glossies with pictures and arrows and all)…until El Baradei followed up to refute some of his points just minutes later. The look on Powell’s face was a dead giveaway. That’s when I knew the fix was in.
Oh, and lotus, I didn’t see anything. *whistles* (And Mary, that was a lovely factual recitation…)
Be wery careful and tune into cspan 2 to listen to the foulest of the foul protector of the admin– Patsy Roberts playing the fear-mongerer in chief while he’s off in Vienna getting protested.
OT — please take a moment to visit another example of the Dark Side…not Chee-knee or Republicans, exactly… but it is about $$$$ and Euro-Americans long-standing conqueror mentality. And yep, there’s a petition you can sign. Thanks.
http://www.defendbearbutte.org/
cbl — I’m contributing to a milk fund for Mary.
As baffling as it is to see so many people in the press swoon over Bush’s cowboy act, I’ve never understood why the media has such a total aversion to associating Condi with any of the dreadful deeds she has done to push this crew’s — her crew’s — agenda.
Look at the latest example. How has she been allowed to escape any culpability? She’s not that charming.
For cbl *g*
I will not play with my food.
I will not play with my food.
I will not play with my food.
. . .
But I’m still going to hope that the last episode in the Frontline series is dubbed, “Goodbye Mr. Chips”
scarecrow, lmao at your 1:30.
Per everyone else, thanks Anne for your 12:43 pm
Watch yer back, hot stuff comin’ through.
Mary’s in the house!
Gatchaman,
So true.
Though I fear if they had gone very far down that road, the show would not have seen the light of day.
To talk about the gorilla, you will have to find somebody ready to go after the gorilla.
Gatchaman @ 52
I think a final determination will indicate that there are numerous 800 lb. gorillas with varying degrees of responsibility for their roles in promoting, facilitating, perpetrating or sanitizing the 9/11 Iraq Invasion
Reminds me of that old television commercial for (appropriately) American Tourister luggage where the gorilla in the cage tosses around the suitcase to prove its durability.
I guess we all know who the luggage represents…
Since we’re talking about Cheney, I’m including a link to an article by Karen Kwiatkowski, who was at the Pentagon when Cheney’s Office of Special Plans was formed. And let us not forget that Cheney shot an old man in the face and heart!
http://tinyurl.com/fd7pl
Back in the days of Cheney’s first White House sojourn, it was Woodward and Bernstein at the WaPo that folks turned to, followed quickly by Art Buchwald. Sometimes, it was the other way around . . . :)
These days, I’m wondering how regularly the DC beltway folks check out Froomkin for their first take on the big WH stories. I’ve got a hunch, but nothing to base my opinion on. Sadly, I’ve also got no sense of where to find reliable stats on web usage. Does anyone out there have a clue about Froomkin’s readership figures?
Mary #119 (previous thread):
I haven’t seen cratering like that since I walked through the remains of a B-52 strike 37 years ago.
If there’s ever anything I ever say, do, or write that comes even close to upsetting you, could we (gulp!) please talk about it first? I’d want at least a sporting chace to make amends.
DoverB – I think the focus on Tenet may have been partly due to the fact that a lot of sourcing seems to have been CIA related. A lot of the CIA people who seem to have been calling things right, and not getting support, from back in the Clinton days forward, probably have little love lost there.
Condi is basically a non-player, ego stroker. Except for her pithy observation that no one wanted to drink coffee while Hussein was in power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
pow wow – you make lots of points that I think about all the time. Thanks for the post.
Oh Mary, that was so well said and dripping with subtle snark – you are a true master.
Thank ya
Mary, what al-Scooter said.
You guys are mocking my attempt to make friends.
The Frontline show was amazing. My words were, “PBS and the producers of Frontline took their spine and balls out of escrow.” No, it wasn’t groundbreaking (to many in the blogosphere for the last five years). But the show presented both a chronology and support from senior intelligence officers (including Paul Pillar) that made a convincing case for a level of politicization and misrepresentation that puts Iran-Contra to shame.
Wow, Mary. You done struck me speechless. I read that twice! I may go back for thirds. *g*
” And should we actually believe that in the rubble they found an intact chalkboard with We are al-Qaeda written 100 times. In English?”
omg. The entire post was a slam dunk (see, George, that’s how you use the term– only when it refers to an ironclad case and facts!!!!!!!!!)
Mercy, Mary, you mus’ be SOMETHIN’ when you’re pitchin’ serious woo . . .
Again @ 79
Lt. Colonel K’s been a thorn in their side for a long time
Too bad the corporate media doesn’t listen
Why do we end up with Joe Biden’s instead of Karen K’s on Sunday morning shows?
Mary @ 91
I think Joe B. is on their (all of them) payroll
“…bad hospital coffee and cafeteria food.”
More truth than poetry, but Jane’s a trouper. Hope her mom gets well ASAP! Until then, regular and guest bloggers and mods are filling in admirably. We truly are blessed.
Why can’t we get Mary on the Sunday morning shows?
“al-Scooter says
June 21st, 2006 at 1:42 pm”
ROTFLMAO
Heads would be exploding all over the country, Peterr. The nets have ratings to think about.
Sure would be cool, though!
Christy, thanks, that of course makes perfect sense
Mary,
play with your food indeed – you can bet that person thought they were laying out a sumptious banquet – and as always, you showed it to be the dried out concern on a Ritz that it was
still hope we get assigned to the same camp “g”
All right folks, the Vice President is just busy trashing the Constitution. Offical Guvvamint bizness. Go home and watch TV or get drunk. Nothing to see here, just move along now.
Mary -
Just caught your comment the end previous thread.
I can only add my thanks to all the others.
It provided alot of ‘context’ to what I had tried to ‘chip’ in.
My writing leaves out detail (I hate that) and assumes folks know what I mean.
In this case, I can just say “What Mary said.”
“Why do we end up with Joe Biden’s instead of Karen K’s on Sunday morning shows?”
Biden’s coming up on Hardball. Sheesh, GO AWAY already.
“Why do we end up with Joe Biden’s instead of Karen K’s on Sunday morning shows? “
better hair ?
Fresh thread from Taylor…
Maybe they don’t want to deal with the wingnut backlash clamoring for more missing white wimmen rather than an intelligent, informed and entirely present white woman who survived the bad ole boys club and retired a lieutenant colonel (and oh, my, all that education she has!). That would surely disturb the status quo on the Sunday automaton circuit.
al-Scooter @ 96
After hearing InstaPundit on NPR’s “Talk of the Nation” (*shudder*) while running errands this morning, I’d say Timmeh and the Press could use a little Meeting with Mary.
And besides, exploding heads would be great for ratings . . .
To retreat from personal survival mode for just an instant, what I learned from Dark Side was how Rummy was perfectly willing to allow bin Laden’s escape from Tora Bora if it meant keeping Tenet and the CIA from scoring more brownie points with Dubya.
Maybe I’d always known that a little bit, but to see it displayed so starlkly last night really tightened my jaws.
Jesus, Joseph, and …. Mary! Holy crap!!! I had to go back over that one again.There is still smoke coming out of the hole where that feller used to be.Gnarly.
al-Scooter – per the Left Coaster, Suskind goes further than Rummy on this.
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/008010.php
Bush.
Mary, you wow me, time and again.
Speechless and smitten.
All hail Queen Mary!!!
I was ever so happy to see Bush’s micromismanagement of the operations in the war on terra exposed. Though Cheney and Rummy hold enormous sway, the CEO of the cabal deserves the bulk of the blame.
Coz — Except for Murtha, Biden’s the closest thing to a “critic” of the war that NBC has allowed on its shows and still take at least quasi seriously. If Kerry were on, the host would belittle him for supporting the war before he opposed it, or for taking a position only for political purposes.
IIRC, Matthews usually accords Biden some deference, so he can at least critize the “prosecution” of the war and the absence of a plan, and the fact the public no long supports whatever “stay the course” means. (Actually I think Bush has a plan; stay there indefinitely, and try to keep it off the front pages so it doesn’t too adversely affect republican chances in elections.)
Don’t forget that Condi’s who George Schultz hired to teach then-Governor W all he knows about furrinners.
’nuff said.
Also, wrt the odd death of Washingtonian publisher Phillip Merrill, recall it was Washingtonian magazine that flirted with Abramoff to buy the photos that were, very suddenly, no longer on the market.
(replaces aluminum haberdash on shelf)
My, Teddy — you’re right.
Naaah.
Uh … you’re right.
pow wow – that was awesome. You’ve explained the whole mess with incredible insight. Thank you.
I don’t buy Mr. Fromkins dismissal. A lie is a lie is a lie…so are multiple lies.
Anyone care to speculate what percentage jump in the polls for the GOP would be produced by the political and “personal health” removal of Rummy and Cheney, respectively, assisted by this Frontline documentary?
Speculatively, (is there anything more entertaining?) one would then ask, who is the maestro of this squirimish?
Is it institutional CIA payback for Plame and to preserve turf and/or help reel in a derelict and dangerous Military Industrial Complex, now unhinged from its traditional Pentagon anchor?
If Bush doesn’t get the message do we go to the Karl Rove-American Idol performance of the theme from Flipper with lyrics as set out in Sealed v. Sealed…
C’mon one of these things has got to stick…
Mary #107:
Thanks for the link. I’m not sure if things came down that way because Dick and Ron got to Dubya first, or if that was a top-down Dubya call. Sure would be fun to have a court sort it out someday, but I’m not holding my breath.
I’m not convinced Deadeye’s health will see him through the rest of his term.
Peterr at 64
OK no Oscar, damn. But the rest of my fantasy is still intact, yes?
Mary,
Just read your takedown on the previous thread. I am humble before your glorious snark. Very humble.
Now I know why my Sen. Roberts is dragging his feet on the investigation he promised–It’s a slam dunk! Of course, not in the way he wants it to turn out.
Nap? I don’t need a stinkin’ nap!!! And no, I AM NOT CRANKY!!!
My kids didn’t want to take naps past age 3. Despite how I tried, they never gave up. Astonishingly, we went to a family reunion — in a PARK — and my kids’ cousins, the same ages, about 4 & 5, took their naps in the park, under a tree! With all the fun and frivolity going on. Obedient children! Of course now, when they are grown, they are probably good little Republicans.
So, I know it is hard, but be of good cheer. Your daughter will grow up to be a free thinker! :-)
Mary: Sorry if I missed your party for me. Thanks for the invite to be your friend, I accept. As to being rocked, LOL, its not even warm. Just faux smoke.
I guess you and your friends like to shout at each other “I agree with myself” and think it enlightenment. How about dealing with those pesky, inconvenient facts that don’t fit your dialogue. If we both do that we might actually grow. Otherwise, you won’t know half of what you don’t know.
later
I haven’t read through all 123 comments, so maybe someone made this point, but:
The obvious problem in letting the public “read between the lines” to detect when government officials lie (or anyone covered in the press, for that matter) is that, unless the public assumes automatically that what they read and hear in the media may not be true (a huge problem if true), they will, for some period of time, be misled, and during that period, act or fail to act on the basis of false information.
In other words, it’s great that much of the public may be smart enough to discern a lie (or might hear the truth from other sources), but that does nothing to absolve the media from reporting factually, because much of the credit for the continuation of our national decline in Bush’s second term (not to mention the accelerated nosedive that started with his first term) lies with our corrupt corporate media.