
The two soldiers who were taken from the traffic checkpoint last week were found today. I should say, with as much anguish as I can put into my typing, their bodies were found, and according to the WaPo:
Maj. Gen. Abdul Aziz Muhammed-Jassim, head of operations at Iraqi Ministry of Defense said the soldiers had been "barbarically" killed and that there were traces of torture on their bodies. He offered no further details.
The families and friends of these soldiers, as well as the other soldiers in their company, will have a long road in dealing with the aftermath of this. It is impossible to say anything in the face of something like this other than to hope that there is some way for the families to find some way to channel this grief and pain and anger into something that gives them some measure of peace over time. But it will be a long road. (The NYTimes also has more on the story.)
Frankly, I just feel altogether hollow today, because a dear friend of mine e-mailed yesterday to let me know that her husband is on his way to Iraq in a few short weeks. And I am terrified for them, and for her, and especially for their children. Every time I pick up a newspaper or read something online, and read about how things are going in Iraq or Afghanistan (and now Korea), I worry about family and friends who are serving there — or who have served there and are likely to be going back again at some point in the near future. And about extended family of friends from college who may still be living there, because they have been too poor or too committed to their own nation’s rebuilding to leave.
And I just want to weep.
There is no excuse for torture — no matter which side is doing it, including our own side — and to have to endure the knowledge that your child may have been tortured before facing a horrible death…well, I cannot even allow myself to think about that this morning. My god, those poor parents, I just want to wrap my arms around them somehow to give them some form of comfort, but I know that will be impossible for them for a long, long time.
The people who perpetrated this torture against our soldiers should be caught and held to account — as should those people in our own military and government who have pushed the policies of state-sanctioned torture forward as legitimate means of government policy. We cannot on the one hand scream about someone else’s actions, while condoning actions of our own citizens which do not comport with the same standards. It’s called hypocrisy, and we are putting our own soldiers in greater danger for torture when they are captured – which is why, up until the Bush Administration, we actually tried to follow the law under the Geneva Convention.
That George Bush and his malignant band of cronies cannot understand something so simple as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." is appalling. Perhaps they could understand "An eye for an eye?" Of course, again, it gets visted on other people’s children, so perhaps it doesn’t have quite the same level of urgency for the policies to be followed to the letter. Or maybe shortcutting the law has become so common for the Bush Administration that they just don’t care about the long-term consequences of their actions any longer — and it truly is all about short-term CYA and political gains and justifying the ends by any means necessary.
And this whirlwind that we have sown…well the reaping of it continues to be done on the backs of an awful lot of grunts on the ground and innocent civilians who keep getting caught in the crossfire. And we will continue to reap it for generations to come.
Iraq is a mess. And our soldiers deserve better than to be left hanging out there because the President and his Secretary of Defense decided to do a little experiment about war on the cheap, never mind that the policy was fatally flawed to start with because it was built on lies.
You think Scooter Libby and Karl Rove and Dick Cheney and the WHIG were so obsessed with the Wilsons because they were bored that month? Please, it was all about CYA so no one would find out they were liars. And it’s continued forward as a diversion for them so that a complicit press — other than Murray Waas and Barton Gellman and Walter Pincus and a other journalists who have done the digging on this, even though it ends up on page A17 — wouldn’t look at the real story.
Why did they lie our way into a war being fought by other people’s children?
The fact that American soldiers have been moved around the board like sacrificial pawns since this war began is unconscionable. And appalling.
Private 1st Class John Hart whispered into the phone so he wouldn’t be overheard. It was just a matter of time, he said, before his buddies and he bumped down some back road in Iraq right into an ambush. They were so exposed, the somber young soldier told his dad, back home in Bedford, Mass. They were riding around in unarmored Humvees with canvas tops and gaping openings on the sides where doors should be. That seemed pretty stupid now that people were shooting at them and lobbing rockets. John, a 20-year-old gunner whose job it was to keep his head up and return fire, felt hung out in the breeze.
As John’s father, Brian Hart, remembers the conversation, he listened with growing alarm, then stepped into his home office so his wife, Alma, wouldn’t hear. It was October 11, 2003.
The Harts couldn’t have been prouder of their only son for answering the president’s call to fight the war against terror in Iraq. That very day, the Harts had accepted a contract to sell their clapboard house in historic Bedford, in part because they felt out of step with anti-war sentiments in town. Seven months earlier, on the eve of war, the congregation of First Parish Unitarian Church had unfurled a big blue banner emblazoned: "Speak Out For Peace." The Harts were offended. The banner loomed over the town common, hallowed ground where Bedford minutemen had gathered before the first battles of the Revolutionary War in nearby Lexington and Concord. The normally soft-spoken Brian Hart told town selectmen that if the banner didn’t come down, he’d sue the town. The day the war began, the Unitarians rolled up their peace banner voluntarily. Still, the skirmish left the Harts feeling so out of sorts with Bedford, their home of 14 years, that they planned to move away.
Now, talking on the phone with his young warrior, Brian tried to understand what he was hearing. Don’t believe spinmeisters on TV, Brian recalls his son saying; the Iraqi insurgency is real and building. John and his buddies in Charlie Company of the 508th Infantry Regiment of the 173rd Airborne Brigade were patrolling ever longer distances in thin-skinned Humvees suited for hauling cargo, not for carrying soldiers under fire.
This was not the first time John had confided that the U.S. military was failing to provide him with essential equipment. In previous calls home, Brian recalls, John recounted a bewildering array of shortages and snafus. Before landing in Iraq that scorching July, John told his father, he’d been issued a winter-weight camouflage suit, body armor with protective plates too small to shield his broad chest, and a broken rifle. An expert marksman and former co-captain of the Bedford High School shooting team, John had been told to conserve scarce bullets by not taking practice shots to sight his weapon, he said. Summertime water rations were so inadequate that guys were passing out in the Iraqi heat….
Read this entire article. Every word of it. This is what I have been hearing from retired military, folks who have recently come back from Iraq, diplomatic types, intel folks…you name it. Over and over again. Still.
I am so angry this morning, I could scream. I do not care what political party you are in, I do not care what you think of dissent during a time of conflict…if you do not get angry reading this article then you do not in all honesty support the troops. What you support is propping up an Administration that is more interested in selling itself through false public relations campaigns, and the hell with the effects of its actual policies on the men and women in uniform who are risking their lives — every freaking day — because they are bound to follow the orders in their chain of command by their code of military conduct.
And those orders are given by a President and a Secretary of Defense who are more interested in covering their own asses than taking care of their men. I have had it with people who cannot see it straight out: you give the orders, you take responsibility for the consequences of those orders. It’s about goddamned time this President stood up and took responsibility for something…anything.
And if he won’t, then it is up to us to hold him accountable. Yes, I have damn well had enough.



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Christy…my heart is with you and all those families who are suffering because of our leaders’ craven lies.
Rest in peace.
that is a really hard arcticle to read. thanks for giving the truth a voice.
You have to wonder what happened to this generation, the baby boomer generation that I am part of. For all of human history the evolutionary safeguard against moments like this was human shame. When a human does things so terrible against the community there is a sense of shame that, if the transgression is large enough, becomes a collective shame. Of course there are always free riders who do not have a developed sense of shame, and I think you have to include Bush and the Bush clan in this group – evolutionary anomolies who have had shame bred out of them in the cause of individual ambition. But shame should still descend on the larger community for what we have done in Iraq, what we have done to our own children. I read somebody like Beinart and he says he was wrong, and yet he feels no shame for the consequences of his actions. Instead he collects on a six figure publishing contract and declares himself the conscience of the Democratic party. What happened to us to create this community without shame I feel myself a part of?
What are we going to do about it?
…and I am not being snarkey
L
Faster, Fitz! Faster …
Larry at 5 — I’ve been thinking about that for the last hour. You are going to have to let me get past the shaking with anger stage first. If anyone has any good ideas, please put them in the thread — in the meantime, I’m going to try to ingest more coffee and get back to a more rational thought process place.
I am angry and in terrible sorrow as are so many of us. I am a mother of young people and aunt to many more.
The carnage from this illegal, immoral war on Iraq just hit a bit closer to home. My niece’s grade school and high school (and Sr. prom date)friend is over there in the same unit as the kidnapped and now dead soldiers. His best buddy was Spc. David J. Babineau – initially killed in that incident and he was close with Menchaca and Tucker. He has been calling my niece every week and when this happened he said he didn’t think he could call her anymore because he didn’t know what the future would bring.
He said early last week he had his first day off (!!!) since January 1st. He went to the green zone and swam and relaxed in one of Saddam’s old palaces. Said he didn’t wear shoes for three days.
My niece is so very upset and says – he’s so young (they are 22) and he doesn’t know how to deal with all the death and destruction.
God Damn the (s)elected criminals who took our country and our brave soldiers into this living hell. I can never forgive anyone who ever voted for them
Christy, Beautifully spoken. It’s a sad day. How many more?
You are so absolutely right that I find it hard to breathe hearing about this. I can hear the spinning now: “see how horrible the turrasts are,” “how can they be so uncivilized except that they are not really human….” This will probably cause the wingnuts to call for more extreme treatment of the prisoners that we have. The death of Zarqawi certainly was a ‘tipping point.’
It is certainly hard to keep up hope with so many terrible things being done or abetted or caused by the current ‘leadership’ of this country. I come to this site for the righteous anger and desire for change advocated here. I only hope that you will be able to keep it up.
Yes.
I’m furious too. Your writings have focused the anger for me now and when I am confronted by a “Support the Troops” type I can now ask them, “Do you support the troops or the President? Choose! You can’t support both!”
hizzhoner
empty comment
I knew a young man killed in Iraq a few months ago, and he was given the silver medal posthumously. But his grandmother, my friend, told me that he had died all alone with a piece of shrapnel in his neck and bleeding to death. He died because he was all alone and with no buddy near to stop the bleeding. Yet he was given the silver medal. He died a victim not a “hero” in the technical sense. They are all sitting ducks over there. The administration uses these young people propagandisticly for their own purposes. Where is God?
Damn.
As a military mom, this report adds to the anguish I feel daily over the war in Iraq. My thoughts & prayers go to the families and friends of these young men.
Also, I’m just so deeply angry with the prideful & incompetent Bush Administration as well as their enablers who have brought us to this point. Americans who wish to support the troops need to work to get them the hell out of Iraq!
Republicans: We’re Always Willing to Sacrifice Your Children to Save Our Pride.
Last night, I sat down with the Post magazine and read the article from beginning to end, and by the time I was through was just sick and sad and angry.
We sent children off to fight a war and treated their safety as an afterthought. How little respect do you have to have for these people who volunteered to put themselves in harm’s way to not give them the tools they needed to protect themselves? Many of these were kids who were inspired by the events of 9/11 to want to defend their country’s honor, to safeguard the homeland, and this is what they got in return? Death in the desert, bleeding to death for lack of a $20 tourniquet? Dead from a bullet that went right through the vehicle and into the neck of a kid whose life’s dream was to be a soldier? A kid who just the week before he died told his father that he and his buddies were sitting ducks, who were sent out in vehicles that had no armor to go after insurgents firing rockets. It was madness, and it was unconscionable.
Not enough food, not enough water. Body armor redesigned and less protective, to save money. Money, for crying out loud.
I don’t just fault people like Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, I also fault the military for going along on this trip down the rabbit hole.
There will be – if there is any justice in this world – a special place in hell for those who failed our men and women in uniform. And I, for one, hope that hell begins during their lifetime.
from Atrios:
And now this, via a dkos diary, quoting a Yemeni paper.
Dr. Najib Ghanem, the chairman of the Health Committee in the Parliament said the corpse of Salahu al-Din was handed over to Yemen but was missing major bodily organs such as the heart, the kidneys, livers and the blood vessels.
This makes it difficult to know the main cause of death. He called for the participation of international autopsy experts in trying to identify the cause of death.
heres something we can do…
lets begin some sort of master type compilation of every one of these Iraq war/occupation enabling lying s.o.b. traitors… their bios…background…their contact info….employment….etc…
Perhaps someday they can be held accountable for their complicity
A couple of years ago I had a conversation with a woman whose father was a German soldier buried alive in a trench by advancing Russians at the end of WWII. She was 5 years old. In the course of an extraordinary wine-fueled confession, she revealed her shame at her lingering anti-semitism, and her abiding shame at what her country did in her name before she entered kindergarten. The scars were deep and raw and close to the surface almost 60 years later. My friends, we are even now acquiring similar wounds to our psyches, even those of us who fight and rail against the atrocities committed in our names. My heart goes out to our servicemen and women who are at the vanguard of our national shame, through no fault of their own. I wish I believed in hell, as an eternity there would be the only fitting punishment for George Bush and his cabal.
Peace and love to these poor soldiers’ families.
Christy,
The sad thing, no
one of many sad things
Is that this delays exit. We cannit let this method, kidnap and torure, appear to work or else it will just encourage more of the same.
God, it makes me sick to my stomach to say this, but incidents like this MUST be met with declarations of stoic resolve.
America as a nation was making moves in the direction of withdrawal. In the face of atrocity, it would seem that momentum must be checked, at least for a while. It’s almost as if the insurgents don’t want us to leave?
Maybe they don’t, because our presence there is fueling their movement and spreading it worldwide. I finally got to read yesterday’s Wall street Journal and there was an editorial about the Islamofacist’s take over of Mogadishu and impending destabilazation of Kenya and Ethiopia. The article is by Peter Pham. I don’t have a link.
BY their childish, thoughtless, reckless determination to instigate a needless war, the Bush Mafia Family has opened a Pandora’s Box; destabilizing regions, undoing every bit of progress so painstakingly made in the middle east, screwing up the world’s supply of oil–I’m waiting for a world wide recession to come from that–and setting back human rights and civil rights by a couple centuries.
It’s not just the US. The whole world is having the clock turned back –decades if not centuries worth–away from progress on human rights, away from spreading democracy and civil rights, away from lifting the poor out of “give a man a fish” and into “teach a man to fish” foreign aid.
I don not want to see the rise of the Warlord culture as a world wide phenominom. The last time that happened? the Dark Ages?
not so good.
To break ranks at this critical time is to be objectively counter-revolutionary. Those torture marks were probably self -inflicted. As for the bad intelligence that bastard Krondstadt out at Langley must be surrounded! Shoot them like partridges!
Thank you for sharing your anger. I think a lot of us are angry too.
This is why Hillary will never get the nomination. People who are in power should be doing everything they can to stop this evil evil war.
I am so angry too. It is so bad. How could this have happened?
This is why it is even more disguisting that Cambell Brown was asking last week if Bush got his “mojo back”
The headline to the story says it all: Fatal Inaction . . . emphasis added below.
Gives “don’t ask, don’t tell” a whole new meaning . . .
So if they won’t ask the followup questions, I guess we’ll have to.
Re ecoast 17 -
Just to make it clear my post 17, the bodies of the suicide victims at Gitmo were returned to their native countries and in at least one case, some body parts and vital organs were missing.
We must work to elect Democrats who will hold hearings. We must work for impeachment, as well. Excuse me for posting the following again, I have already at several other blogs but I think it bears repeating.
I followed a link from AMERICAblog and read this:
President Bush spoke similarly at a Republican fund-raiser here Monday night, asserting: “An early withdrawal would embolden the terrorists. An early withdrawal would embolden Al Qaeda and bin Laden. There will be no early withdrawal so long as we run the Congress and occupy the White House.”
‘As long as we run the Congress and occupy the White House’
Is this what now passes for democracy in this country? Do we even realize how far we have fallen when the president considers himself and his cronies to be an occupying force?
Christy
Forgive me, I neglected to tell you hao moving your post was.
I was too busy crying.
Barbarism like that make me………
I have no words
And if he won’t, then it is up to us to hold him accountable.
I couldn’t agree more.
We know it can and must be done.
Christy, your sorrow and frustration and eloquence are like a burnished brass bell this morning, tolling the atrocity that has become this administration’s CYA leadership. Has been all along…
Mary Matalin, shame on you for shilling for these bastards. Can you look your daughters in the eye this morning?
John Kerry said this morning on the Imus show that for the Republicans it’s “Lie and die.” And Imus said oh, but isn’t it going better over there? What, he got a kissy note from Darth Chee-knee yesterday? No, it’s a damn sight not going better.
The administration lies; our sons and daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, friends are the ones that die or come home horribly maimed or face death every hour under circumstances of criminal negligence to properly outfit and armor and protect our troops. Not the Paris Hiltons or Jenna or not-Jenna. No, it’s the kid who spent weekends in the bunkhouse talking about fishing with my son who’s on his way to Iraq, leaving his new wife…how will he come home? In a box? Whole? Sound of mind and spirit?
While the prez fiddles around in Vienna, America burns. Hizzoner’s got it right…who do you support, the troops or the incompetent President?
ecoast
Why would the US want to eviscerate the body? Was there a post mortum exam?
I think this may turn out to be an act of tactlessness that has a simple explanation.
Sounds like an autopsy was peformed.
Christy, thank you for this writing, and for the image and word that head it — though the candle and the word “requiem,” beautiful and calming as they are, cannot counteract, much less neutralize, the power and fury of your words.
As gruesome as this morning’s confirmation is, even worse is the sense that Menchaca and Tucker will be only the first two of many to suffer this fate. Those opposing our forces in Iraq always stay a step ahead of the Americans in evil imagination, despite Cheney/Rumsfeld/Addington/Yoo and various driven-mad soldiers’ best attempts to keep up. This is just their latest point-made, and it’s sure to be repeated.
How must all our officers and enlistees in Iraq be taking this morning’s news? My God.
How much longer before some of them mutiny?
I just read this on America Blog.
Last night, at a GOP fundraiser, Bush linked Iraq and Al-Qaeda — and he said we’ll stay in Iraq as long as the GOP runs the country:
An early withdrawal would embolden the terrorists. An early withdrawal would embolden Al Qaeda and bin Laden. There will be no early withdrawal so long as we run the Congress and occupy the White House.
He’s going to keep the troops in Iraq to make a political point. That’s sick.
I am sickened and horrified that our own party wont act. why have they refused to call for a withdrawal.
When will the country figure out that weve been had?
I only got half way through the WAPO article yesterday and had to put it down. I know John Gibbons and a more thoughtful, gentle, committed minister would be hard to find. I know he must have been a caring soul trying to help the Harts deal with the unbearable.
What will it take for the meme to sink in?
W. and his minions have committed HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS.
It can be proven many times over. We cannot let these people lead our country further into the hell we are witnessing. We have to stop them and it can’t wait until 2008.
What will it take?
I was against this war from the start, or before the start. I went to marches in Washington DC and Boston, hoping to show the numbers who opposed this. After the war started, I held my breathe hoping they were right. Maybe it will be so fast and easy. I was hoping I was wrong in thinking it would end with guerilla warfare.
So how come I knew it would be a disaster, and I was right? I don’t have any insider information. I don’t get reports from the CIA. I don’t have a great knowledge of Iraq history.
This administration had to have known this would be a disaster.
Call your Senators and demand that they call for an end to this madness.
Christy at 7, Larry at 5,
What to do? One notion:
An important difference between this era and the 60’s is that in the 60’s those who wanted us out of a senseless war (a minority then, unlike now) staged regular peace marches in DC, NY, and other cities. This was an organized, labor-intensive effort (e.g. the National Mobilization to End the War in Vietnam) helped by the existence of a nascent “counter-culture” movement. There is little or no public protest (which leads to press and public debate) these days. Perhaps a blogosphere that can put together a Yearly Kos can spearhead some initial demonstrations, or a national day of protest. And one of our rallying cries should be “Bring our troops home.”
for days CNN had been hyping the two missing soldiers story — this morning their response to the gruesome news is strangely restrained …
OT re Iraq, but on topic of accountability:
The Safavian verdict is in: guilty on four of five counts of obstruction of justice and perjury.
Safavian, to refresh some memories, was the government’s chief procurement officer.
Procurement problems? Hmmmm, maybe I’m not OT after all . . .
Fuck me. I’m scanning today’s Boston Globe, and this is sitting there like an IED…
“As a senior at Springfield High School of Science and Technology in 1998, David J. Babineau wrote to his classmates he wanted to be a five-star general. Before the summer was out, he had joined the Army. And by December, he was assigned to Fort Campbell, Ky., home of the famed 101st Airborne Division.
On Friday, Specialist Babineau was killed in an ambush at a traffic checkpoint south of Baghdad . The 25-year-old Springfield native was with the two US soldiers who were apparently kidnapped by insurgents.”
http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..pecialist/
——
To say this hits close to home…it IS fucking home. I’m just dumbstruck…speechless.
I can only repeat what Christy just posted. I’m livid, sorrowful…
Downtown, there’s a Memorial to the Spfld. kids who we lost in Vietnam. There’s 50 names inscribed on 3 pieces of granite.
Somebody took the effort to put info online. All kinds of info. Dates of service. DOB/DOD. Official docs of how they died…just about everything.
http://www.springfield50.org/
——-
AND NOW WE’RE DOING IT AGAIN!
I just can’t believe it.
A small postscript, Christy, I think it’s “sown” rather than “sewn” to reap the whirlwind. Such a moving piece you’ve written this morning.
What can we do? First, send the link for this posting “Requiem” to everyone you know, even those who never read blogs. In a small way, we can spread this candle of honor and condolence for all that the families of our troops have sacrificed.
Second, I read in passing a reference on H-Post yesterday about an upcoming movie in which John Cusack has to tell his daughter her mother was killed in Iraq. Don’t even know the title, but we need to watch for it and make it a major box office success…this is what will help build the reality momentum.
Building the buzz, evangelizing, being the tipping point…every little action is part of the larger goal. Badly paraphrasing an old proverb…we can move a mountain by carrying away small stones.
Prarie Sunshine your 28
RE:John Kerry
I say Too little…too late
Fuck him and his constant equivicating
We need leaders with 24/7 balls
Ned Lamont fits that profile.
The world is currently set up to accept this situation as it is. Our government elected by the majority of its citizens has said that this is the course we want to take. All members of congress who condone these actions have been elected by us. The majority elected them for their stance on these issues.
Other countries who do not like what is going on, are not speaking up to stop it either. No country has done anything to stop this administration from doing as it pleases.
There simply are not enough people who care.
There are not enough people who care.
NBC )(Mike B.) just reported 8,000 troops had been looking for these guys since they disappeared.
This is helpful how?
2 more.
It’s a number. Merely so. Right, Mr. Snow?
http://www.bgladd.com/Just_a_Number.jpg
Where have all the soldiers gone…….?
gone to graveyards every one……..
When will they ever learn?
Hold this administration’s feet to the fire…hammer hammer hammer away. Everyone of us can make a difference……..NO FEAR!
Thanks Redd, but I just could not finish reading the article you cite. It was too painful. I have a family member that did one tour in Iraq during the time of the initial invasion. (He came back OK.) However, there is talk of “recycling” him in there again. So beyond my sense of anger and frustration, I also have a lurking sense of fear.
But I agree with Larry at 5…what do we do? I’ve written letters and e-mails to the point where my elected representatives no longer respond (and they used to respond regularly). Protests are counter-productive. The Dems are just as tone-deaf on this as the Rethugs are. There is no one in congress (with the possible exception of Feingold) that represents my views. And to paraphrase Bill Clinton, I’m not looking for them to be more liberal — I want them to be more relevant and responsive. I don’t think that there’s anything we can do that will overcome what they refuse to do.
Christy,
Thank you for this post. I am so distressed I can barely breath. My heart bleeds for these 2 young men and their families, and for the young men and women who were charged with finding them. I cannot imagine the pressure they must have been under.
My heart goes out to the families and it is my fervent hope that they find peace, some day.
I have a 16 year old son and I cannot well…. you know
Peace
Lhd,
While I understand your premise, I must humbly disagree. I cannot see where leaving our troops in the middle of a civil war, to be nothing more than cannon fodder can possibly benefit anyone. This current administration has proven its inability to competently execute a war.
For all those who feel we must – Stay the Course – I would remind them that the Recruiting Offices are open and they & their children are welcome to sign up & go to Iraq, so that those who have borne the burden so far can come home, having completed their mission – WMDs gone – never having existed – Saddam removed from power; Democratic Elections held; Government established; Constitution in place. What is the current mission? Bring brotherly love to warring factions? Good Luck.
What “sense of shame” are you talking about, Wilbur?
Dubbya has none.
I have no words…When I heard the news this morn. in the car I had to pull over. Very moving post Christy…at this point, if I am numb, what could those families feel, and to know those horrid details.
There is an evil horrible picture that is out there, that I hope people are responding to …..As these KIDS and I mean KIDS are tortured and killed, Karl Rove is out there talking up the war to his so-called supporters for only POLTICAL REASONS…for the one reason….they want to retain power, the costs are many…but NONE as sobering, as sad, and heinous as the torture and deaths of our fellow citizens of this country and of the world.
Karl Rove, his hideous minions and HIS supporters have the blood of these brave KIDs on thir hands……add these two heroes to the 2500 plus already killed , the thousands of out mamed and wounded for life fellow Americans and the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians who have been murdered.
As I said how can any of his really be expressed in words!
Kate, the mom from Chicago–
I had no direct connection to Babbineau as you, other than hometown. So sorry for your loss.
I just called Sen. Martinez and told his receptionist the following: “The blood of those two soldiers is on his hands. He needs to support Kerry and Feingold NOW in their call for setting a date to get out of Iraq. Someday, somewhere, somehow, the Senators and Representatives will be held to account for their support of this corrupt, incompetent administration that started this war based on lies.”
The best thing all of us can do in the face of all this grief and anger about this sickening war is to continue with our political work to change the leadership in this country. Or if we aren’t doing anything yet, BEGIN. It is LITERALLY up to us.
I read this yesterday on WaPo and cried most of the way thru it. Today, those 2 soldiers were just boys for craps sake. My heart aches for all the families who are going thru unimaginable heartache because of this inept, stupid administration. May they rest in peace. And my sincere condolences to their families.
And you know that Bush is breathing a sigh of relief that these to brave men did not turn up in some grotesque video, alive and showing signs of torture. I really hate Bush. Fuck him
Percy, a big difference between Vietnam and Iraq in relation to demonstrations is that in Vietnam we had the draft and more people were affected by that war personally. Sadly, now only those of us with consciences are speaking out while those who do not have a personal stake over there and are morally indifferent remain silent. In other words, we are smaller. But I agree with you, we still need to do something.
sonate at 45 “Protests are counter-productive.”
I’d urge you not to underestimate the power of public speech and resolve. Protests brought us the civil rights movement, and over a period of years (too many), a change in national perspective on Vietnam.
Protests affect public opinion. Public opinion affects politicians, because they need votes of that same public to stay in office.
About the Safarian verdict…according to Isikoff this morn. on the Maddow show…the Justice dept was waiting for this verdict to issue indictments for Ney and possibly DeLay…so maybe that will help to temper the ReTHUGS and their pitbull queen Rover!
cathy at 42:
It’s more than not enough people who care. It’s that people have been fed a steady stream of propaganda and can’t discern up from down.
I’m reading a book about Saladin and the third crusade. It’s amazing how little has changed in the last 800 years.
It’s not a war, it’s an occupation.
Support the troops, impeach Bush.
lina-
We have been fed the same steady stream of propaganda, but we cared enough to explore past that and see what is true and what isn’t. Not enough people care to do that. Not enough people care.
and Saladin was from Tikrit too — but he was also a Kurd …
I don’t understand this post. We have an account of someone who is SO offended by a simple banner put up by Unitarians about the utterly criminal inavsion of Iraq, they decided to MOVE OUT OF TOWN.
And we are supposed to feel sorry for these sociopaths?
Face it fellow Americans. With the possible exception of a few right-wing hawks in USA, everyone else on planet earth thinks what were are doing to the Iraqis is a CRIME. Not a mistake, a CRIME! WE are the bad guys. I am so ashamed of what USA is doing–supposedly in MY name–that there are days when I feel sick.
And no, I have no idea how to stop it.
56naschkatze – You are right. The absence of a draft removes the personal danger of war from those families whose sons and daughters have not elected to volunteer (we’ll leave Nt’l Guard out of it.) And this is perhaps part of the explanation for so little public protest to date. But the anti-war sentiment is there, and I think by now it is large enough that it could and should be harnessed.
Today i am going to call as many members of congress as I possibly can This HAS to stop NOW. Can we start a phone campaign? Now is the time!
Percy at 57
On protests…
“I’d urge you not to underestimate the power of public speech and resolve.
Although I respectfully disagree, I hope that you’re right and I’m wrong, because nothing I do (voting, e-mailing, letter-writing, phone calls) has made the slightest difference since this spoiled brat was appointed by the Supreme Court.
Call your Senators.
One thing Democrats could do is talk as loud as they can about what the troops need, and it would be better to provide that information directly from those in uniform. Democratic congresspeople need to say, “If we’re staying for the foreseeable future, this administration and this military need to explain why they still have not provided our troops with the equipment and supplies they need to do their jobs as safely as possible.”
I’d like to see some public airing of the statistics on deaths and injuries that could have been prevented with proper equipment. It’s awfully hard to claim ownership of “keeping Americans safe” if you have not ensured that the Americans sent to fight for that cause are being properly protected themselves.
I’m sick to death of being labeled anti-American or weak on defense when those in charge care more about their political power than they do about the men and women actually fighting this war.
When you fight a war, or are maintaining an occupation in which the lives of our troops are still in danger on a daily basis, it is imperative that the useless items that are included in the military’s budget get axed, pronto.
When you commit to maintaining a presence in a hostile region, you not only have to properly equip those in the theater of operations, you also have to make sure the originating infrastructure is maintained.
There needs to be an immediate end to “emergency” appropriations bills, and an all-encompassing budget needs to be put together.
I was asked to do a new version of “Little Boxes” by Malvina Reynolds for a main title to a well-known series. Although I didn’t record the whole thing, I was moved to rewrite the last two verses. I would like to think she approves:
Little boxes on the hillside
little boxes have no name
and they’re all made out of ticky-tacky
and they all look just the same
And the people in the houses
all went to university
where they got schooled in little boxes
and they came out all the same
And there’s doctors and there’s lawyers
and business executives
and they’re all made out of ticky-tacky
and they all look just the same
Other people aren’t doctors
they’re not lawyers or executives
so they get put in little boxes
and treated all the same
And their children join the army
and get shipped off to the eternal war
when they die they’re put in little boxes
so they come home all the same
It doesn’t come close to articulating my rage and helplessness, and I don’t pretend it’s as articulate as half the stuff I read here every day, but it’s what I have.
Tommy Yum @69,
Thank you :(
Thank you for the candle, Christy.
We light candles for many reasons not the least of which is to mark a loss. I keep Yahrtzeit candles at home. One is lit for my father on the anniversary of his death — in keeping with his tradition. But there have been other times, the loss of a friend, a dear pet, someone significant when lighting a candle was a needed action. I will light one tonight when I get home.
They stay lit for 24 hours or more and are a constant reminder to focus and remember, and reflect.
We light candles to help us find our way out of the darkness. Surely this is a time of darkness. Our collective candles can and must shine a bright light for truth, justice, compassion, and love. If we can’t find our way to pool our collective light here, in this FDL community and then take it out and spread it, we are lost.
I choose to believe that there are many many of us who possess that light and are willing to step up and act, in some way, any way to chase that darkness away.
I have to wonder if anyone in the Bush administration, or the immediate families of the administration, feel compelled to read articles like this. It would have such a satisfying effect to know that just someone in that group was feeling the weight of where they have put so many soldiers and their families. Do you think Bush or Cheney have nightmares? Do you think Laura is consumed with the knowledge of how much pain and fear her husband has single-handedly inflicted on this country? Do you think Babs and HW ever discuss the families that have been so ravaged by their son? Do you think that there are any human feelings amongst any of them?
Franco says:
June 20th, 2006 at 7:09 am
About the Safarian verdict%u2026according to Isikoff this morn. on the Maddow show%u2026the Justice dept was waiting for this verdict to issue indictments for Ney and possibly DeLay%u2026so maybe that will help to temper the ReTHUGS and their pitbull queen Rover!
———————————————————-
I suspect it’ll be a while. It’s going to take some time for Safavian to hammer out his deal. Any word on the minimum/maximum sentences?
Christy–that was a beautiful piece. My heart goes out to these families. I recently lost a sister (car accident) and it is so hard to find peace when a life isn’t finished. I struggle with this everyday but some of these soldiers were half my sister’s age and thankfully, she didn’t suffer. For these guys to have been tortured…
I am also angry at these Democrats who continue to support the war and who continue to refuse to consider a timetable for troop withdrawal. Who do they think they are pleasing? A majority of Americans don’t want this war. The soldiers and generals over there don’t want this war.
I know we have to figure out a way to transform this anger and sadness into action but these Bush people are like the Boogeyman. Nothing defeats them. But don’t worry, I’ll never stop trying…
Tommy Yum @ 69. That is one of my all-time favorite songs. In the ’60’s my brother had a folk music record and music book — Ticky Tacky was in it and we wore a groove in the record. Then he played it over and over on the piano. And then the clarinet.
Thanks.
the people who are buying into the propaganda are gullible. They trust their good Christian president to keep them safe from all the scary people “over there” (outremer – for *ilson).
As long as he keeps up this tit for tat war mantra, they’ll believe it, and he’ll get away with it.
And since no one with a brain in his/her head can get elected in this environment, I see no end in sight.
techno
The family had a son who was putting his life on the line to on behalf of his country and in defense of the admirable concept of freedom. The administration lied, and these poor kids are dying. But for the parents, particularly early in the war, that banner said “We don’t support what your brave son has volunteered to do on behalf of his nation.” While agreeing entirely with the politics of the Unitarians and their banner, I understand the anger of the parents. One of the mistakes we protesters made in the Vietnam era was to lump the poor grunts in the trenches with the politicians who put them there.
As Christy’s fine post illustrates – these kids deserve every bit of support and respect we can give them. They are among the many victims of this pointless war. But do not blame them, nor their parents, for being proud of their service and sacrifice.
IMPEACH both! & Fire rummy in utter disgrace.
Jail?!
LETTERS to editor & Congress & & &
Rinse & repeat . . .
*And don’t forget to thank those who are doing a good job(!)
BOYCOTT the news orgs that blindly follow the repug talking points, and LET THEM KNOW.
Let their ADVERTISERS know.
*
CONFRONT people who blindly accept the bushco line of @*%&, hopefully with civil discourse. But DON’T BACK DOWN! There ARE quiet, respectful ways to do this, and I think they often accomplish more than loud demos.
We recently were on an elderhostel. Everyone was, naturally, trying to put their political feelings aside for the sake of group harmony.
But one fellow, just full-to-bursting with his own self-importance, said once to often how stupid & idiotic liberals were about [ ], yahda yahda yahda.
I couldn’t stand it any more, so I called him on it.
He got louder.
I didn’t raise my voice at all (I think my dear hubby will back me up on this *g*), but I also did NOT back off one millimeter.
Considering the venue, and the feelings of the rest of the group (overwhelming majority of whom agreed with me, as far as we could tell, but who had remained virtually silent – again, group harmony concerns), I’d tried to choose a time when we were sorta off to the side by ourselves.
I tried to reason with bozo. He shouted back re: I didn’t understand anything. Rather than shout back at him, I eventually told him as firmly as I could that we were going to have to “agree to disagree.”
He didn’t “get it”, & got even louder. So I repeated, more firmly, still in a low voice. His poor wife DID understand, so the duet soon became a trio with, “Honey?, HONEY?! Let it go.”
Later, bozo’s wife sneaked up to me very quietly and told me she agreed with me(!). She, and some others actually thanked me for standing up to him the way I did.
Next time, maybe I’ll get a punch in the nose. But I cannot remain silent anymore. I just CAN’T!
Wonderful post Christy, said she, moist-eyed.
Gonna have a hard time getting anything done today.
Oh. Lil’ bright spot. Our sweet bluebird family fledged successfully ;->
I’ve been lighting candles for days. For my wife’s grandfather, for her family, for Jane and her mom …
Thanks, Christy for lighting one for the nation.
to = too, darn it. I HATE that!
Christy #7:
It’s early here on the west coast, and I need to get to the office. Couple ill-formed thoughts before the thread goes away.
Most importantly, keep on with keepin’ on. Per *ilson, et al upthread, the way to get the troops home is to remove the GOP’s control of the federal government. Taking back Congress is a major step in that direction. What we do here needs to be weighed in light of that goal.
FDL has become prime “real estate” in the blogosphere. Posts and posters matter. So who can and should say what needs to be said to help move this narrative along? (In the short term, do you know any retired JAG officers who’d be willing to blog on the importance of Geveva Conventions and hang around through the comments?)
You’ve demonstrated netroots success already – the rubber stamp meme’s out there. And it was a low-risk, low-investment kind of activity. What else can you do around this issue?
Are there some opportunities for synergy with other blogger friends? Sometimes complicated messages can be delivered by breaking them down into smaller ones for several messengers to carry.
I think if there were some magic way of bringing the troops home and freeing the Iraqis to heal themselves, we’d have found it by now. And done it. But if anybody has that way in hand, let’s roll!
Re: Savavian
Someone (@ilson?) commented here that Safavian decided that juist plain stupid was safer than being obviously corrupt. I guess not.
“Willful blindness” will bite you in the ass every time.
Carry this link to “Requiem” with you to the other blogs you visit. Spread the candlelight.
Tonight I will light two candles in my window. For each of these two brave soldiers…and for hope and commitment to work for change. Please join me.
And to the poster who’s mad at Kerry, I can’t agree. I believe in redemption and the power of change. Personal change…and change in government.
The thought that comes to mind is: Where is all the money going for? The cost per month has been escalating since this started. They are not replacing equipment, troop levels are about the same. No major operations, and no rebuilding, yet the costs keep going up. Where is it going???
I and my wife come from Families that have had extensive military service. All as enlisted men and women. In my family my dad was in the Air force at the end of Korea. My next younger brother was 10 years in the Air Force; my younger sister married somebody from our town who enlisted in the Navy, My youngest Brother served in the Marines for 8yrs. My Wife’s youngest brother (My youngest brothers best friend) served 8 yrs got out was a Riverside, CA Sheriffs deputy for 6 yrs went back in the reserves and went to Iraq at the beginning, got shot through the shoulder in August of 2003 and is now doing Ok, but he was changed I hope one day works through his problems and returns to the person he was. My wife’s older brother served 8trs in the Army and 4 yrs in the reserves, her younger sister served 4 years in the Marines, and the youngest sister was Married to two Marines and who served more than 8 yrs and her Father is a retired Master Chief who retired after twenty years, He served 3 tours in Vietnam on a Destroyer and absolutely will not talk about those years. My wife who was born in Oakland, Ca. while he was serving there, while a child moved a dozen times. I didn’t go into the Military. I destroyed my knee when I was 18 playing basketball, and I received a college scholarship for my academics. I was the first in my family to attend college. It was not that we were that patriotic, we were just that poor. My wife also has two half brothers who are both in the army; the both re-upped and were sent back to Iraq for their 2nd and 3rd tours over there. We worry about them all the time.
It saddens me to think that these men and women are over there to be cannon fodder. That Rumsfield still has a job baffles me. Maybe these clue less men who govern our country don’t care, but the long term legacy of this will resonate through our social fabric for the next forty years long after these bastards are dead and gone. We must take back our country starting with the elections this fall. After we get our people out of there, please, don’t let us forget them. Whe must make sure that veterans needs are fully funded and that we don’t forget them and throw them away as this administration is so intent on doing.
When we have representation again, please, we must keep after them to hold the people responsible for this accountable. How ever long it takes, how ever hard it is, we can not let these people who profited, these greedy fucking bastards who enabled, encouraged, and participated in this looting of AMERICA and the loss of so many innocent lives (U.S., coalition, and Iraqi)
We deserve better, The Iraqi’s deserve better, and for damn sure our Service men and women deserve better. I thought of myself as a republican through much of the 80’s and early 90’s. But after the first gulf war and how veterens where treated and the rise of the corporations and the republican rise to power I realized that this was not the things that I could stand for. I regestered as a Democrat and participated in my first Iowa Caucus. I love this site and enjoy the people who blog here. Lets all work to make sure these bastards get what they deserve.
I feel sick.
One of the most moving posts I have read in a long time…there were times when I had to walk away from reading it; and if I was moved to that extent, I can only imagine the anguish of these families. My heart and prayers go out to these fathers and mothers who are dealing with this kind of loss
Isakson on the senate floor saying the insurgency in Iraq is being led by AQ–
claims we defeated the Taliban and won in Afghanistan and are winning in Iraq. If we set deadlines, then all those who died in Iraq will have died in vain.
This is what we are up against. The Senators are on the floor right now in full battle dress, defending this debacle and crime.
Kyl– we can’t withdraw, we must win.
Oh, and by the way, if these soldiers’ body armor , boots, or weapons are missing, the Pentagon will surely deduct the retail amount from their death benefit checks.
Re Anne’s 68:
All the budgetary reform in the world — were it forthcoming, and we know it ain’t — couldn’t recover the billions squandered by “inattentive” Rumsfeld’s DoD.
Lucre that should have been encasing our soldiers and Marines in greater safety — in AFGHANISTAN, NEVER IRAQ, I should stress — has stacked up instead in Lockheed’s and Halliburton’s and Blackwater’s and Rendon/Lincoln’s and God-only-knows-who-else’s coffers, becoming filthier by the second.
Their bottom line, and ours, makes the same point:
Worst. President. Ever.
Bush is (in)famous for saying he doesn’t read polls, and he saying that he listens to his military commanders on the ground. Perhaps that’s where we need to focus some attention.
We’ve talked about this before – that uniformed officers cannot go public without jeopardizing their career by violating the chain of command – but what I’m suggesting is to encourage these officers to speak up LOUDLY and directly within the chain of command about the mismanagement of the conflict from DC, the lack of a discernable picture of what “victory” looks like, which results in an inability to craft a plan to achieve that “victory.”
Good generals listen to their colonels and majors; good officers listen to their sergeants. Perhaps by encouraging these officers (commissioned and non-commissioned alike) to speak up, we might help shift the balance of power at the Pentagon toward a more thoughtful approach to conducting
a waran occupation.These are the folks who talk to Murtha, and we need more of them to do more talking. These people need to be heard, before they are dead or retired.
I have been reading Kevin. Phillips new book “Theocracy”. I am beginning to think that because we must have the oil that we will stay in Iraq. Its just common sense and the Democrats are no different than the Repugs.
Its just about the money. Both parties know this is true. Everything else is window dressing.
Forget protests. They didn’t stop the Vietnam war like a lot of people think. What stopped the Vietnam war was the army lost control of the troops there. There were multiple mutinies. Troops refused to leave base and go on patrol.
If you want to find a way to stop this madness then we need to keep banging that drum until we find that way or ways. Don’t let it slip of the front burner, again.
Resolve that “There IS a way and we will DEFINATELY find it” (to quote Stuart Wilde).
Keep asking for it. Keep looking for it. Look to the history of non-violent revolutions that were effective.
Go bang on the door of the Albert EInstein Institute. They’re experts at non violent resistance.
Focus and Persist
I read this but I don’t know where.
“If you continue to send each generation to war, at some point you will have a warmongering nation.”
Today the debate on Iraq continues. Today I see a quote from Ron Suskind’s new book referring to Cheney’s approach to what he calls the 1% doctrine and Cheney says “It’s Not About Our Analysis, It’S About Our Response” Today I look at the picture of these 2 young young men killed in a far off land and I cannot come close to expressing my sorrow. TODAY, WE MUST ALL FLOOD CONGRESS WITH EMAILS, FAXES, PHONE CALLS. TODAY, THEY MUST HEAR US ALL.
I’m seeing more and more 20 year olds with artificial legs.
What is their sacrifice for?
Boy does that article bother me. I live a town away from Bedford. I am a Unitarian and have been to that church. I have been against the war, but for the troops from the beginning. I am an Army veteran.
Bush, the Republicans and their cronies are so like this. To bang the war drums without committing themselves to the war. Every Republican I work with and know, who supports Bush, has never served in the military. Everyone I know who has served in the military is a Democrat. I don’t think that is by accident.
The people who perpetrated this torture against our soldiers should be caught and held to account %u2014 as should those people in our own military and government who have pushed the policies of state-sanctioned torture forward as legitimate means of government policy. We cannot on the one hand scream about someone else’s actions, while condoning actions of our own citizens which do not comport with the same standards. It’s called hypocrisy, and we are putting our own soldiers in greater danger for torture when they are captured %u2013 which is why, up until the Bush Administration, we actually tried to follow the law under the Geneva Convention.
Years ago (1964) Eric Berne wrote “Games People Play”. Ultimately, he pointed out, it’s worse than hypocracy. This is the game our international “leaders” play: “Let’s you and him fight” carried to the extreem.
FUCK!!!!
Shrub should be forced to meet their parents.
Absolutely. Fucking. Heartbreaking.
Yes, Ive HAD ENOUGH.
mainsailset 94
Hear! Hear!!
Christy, I have been very angry but also almost completely numb for quite a while now, primarily because of the bush nightmare we are living in. However, this news and your words were like a hot sword that went right to my heart. Thank you.
Oh, if only there was something we could do to reach these cold hearted greedy neocons, the bush outlaws.. As someone else previously said, I shall never forgive the people who still support those bastards.
Mission Accomplished! That mission being the hijacking of the country and pulling the wool over the american people’s eyes so the treasury could be looted and delivered to the oil companies and big business.
These latest deaths are a small percentage of the cost of the Iraq war for most but 100% of the cost to the families of the passed soldiers. Chimp, Dick, Rummy, Condi, the blood is on your hands. Time to step down.
You can bet that the debate over the ‘war’ will turn out exactly as the ‘resolution’ did last week. Goopers spewing Rove propaganda and getting nothing resolved.
OT – jury finds safavian (former bush official) guilty.
Last summer, I visited my family in GA. My nephew, who was 15 at the time, told his dad and me that he wanted to join the Army when he got out of high school. Knowing that his family were Bush supporters, I didn’t want cause WWIII, but I had to say, “You’ll end up in Iraq. Do you really want that?” His dad also questioned him.
He said, “I’ll be fighting for my country.”
I will probably get hauled off for saying this — because I’m sure Mr. Cheney’s buddies are reading this thread right now– but I hate the SOBs who are lying to the young men and women of this country. These assholes are sending America’s finest to a meatgrinder, purely to profit Halleburton and line Bush’s pockets.
Do you guys ever wonder how much Bush directly profits from all the little arrangements his buddies have lined up? You know he is. He doesn’t follow our laws and he’s made up a few of his own. I wish someone could look into it.
What to do?
Be relentless in correcting the media and politicians. It is not an IED…it is a bomb. They were not kidnapped…they were MIA and then KIA.
Don’t allow the rethugs to frame this disaster in peacetime terms! Don’t allow the media to be enablers!
George Bush and his cronies cannot understand you feelings of terror since none of their relatives, friends, or aquaintances will ever serve in Bush’s war. They are only interested in gathering plunder.
Birdman– your point is well taken and right on.
Good Morning Everyone,
Christy,
if, as you typed your post you had any concerns about your anger clouding your intended message, please put it aside now. What I wouldn’t give to have someone, anyone of national stature (besides Murtha) just go on the record with your sentiments
Okay, now I have something to say. I am not saying it to be ghoulish or in any way insensitive – I think it’s important we get as firm a grip on the hell that is Iraq
about a month ago, either Gilliard or one of his regular readers unwittingly predicted this tragic episode, further, the commenter stated the insurgents would only become more efficient -
initial reports this morning said US Military personnel retreiving these 2 babies bodies had to work their way through minefields of IED’s -
so, kidnap and kill two in hopes of successfully killing and maiming dozens sounds darkly “efficient” to me
this is only going to get worse. As a non military person, it is obvious to me that the wearing down of our military pesonnel and resources is made more evident everyday
Good Germans fought valiantly for their country at Stalingrad too. Any American who volunteered for Vietnam after 1970 was not a noble warrior fighting for freedom and democracy. At some point, adults that volunteer to fight in Iraq must accept personal responsibility for participation in a War of Occupation …
May our children rest in peace. I am sick to my stomach. This is the same feeling that i have when remembering the Viet Nam days – to this day, i’m sick to my stomach over what happened to our soldiers and our country.
I live in Bedford, MA, and when John Hart was killed, his friends in the high school called me, (i represended the Jewish community) along with other religious institutions in town, to bake for his wake. I baked and helped out in the kitchen during his funeral Mass. I’m still sick.
Here is John’s picture:
http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..d_in_iraq/
Since then, Bedford has suffered another loss; Travis Desiato.
lhprop at 30 -
The dkos diarist and the Yemeni paper he quoted suspect that it was not a suicide, but he was tortured to death at Gitmo and they took out the vital organs – ghastly, isn’t it? – to bury the evidence. I don’t how much Yemen will make it an issue or whether it will gain traction.
Thank you so much, Bush and Gonzales, for shredding the Geneva Conventions on how prisoners of war are treated. Unfortunately, the consequences just redounded on two of our soldiers.
Thank you so much for your “support” of our troops.
I would agree, *ilson @ 107.
I hope that America wakes up soon and realizes that each election matters.
Damn those bush believers, followers, and voters; they made me guilty as sin, too. This cabal needs impeachment and to be tried for war crimes. We need to make the rest of America understand that staying the course is suicidal, homicidal and immoral at every level.
Since when do uniformed soldiers on a “battlefield” get kidnapped by the “enemy?” For the media — and especially Democrats — to adopt this bizarre language is just so fucked up there are no words for it. I wanted to scream at Olbermann last night.
Sweet Jesus people, stop using their language!
These deaths are significant for me personally. For the first time that I’m aware I’m connected – Thomas Tucker is a friend’s cousin. Even though I’ve always thought this war was a horrible, stupid mistake, and when seeing pictures of fallen soldiers it always strikes me how young they are and what a waste their deaths are, it’s shocking how powerfully this personal connection enrages me. My friend, the cousin, has always had a “well, none of this really concerns me” attitude, to the war and to politics in general. I don’t want to be insensitive, but I can only hope that this engages her more fully.
new thread — old crooks
We need to get Larry Johnson’s back: Howie Kurtz is calling him despicable in todays WaPo and Larry’s blog has attracted ants and roaches.
http://tinyurl.com/jrxxj
May they rest in peace, somehow. And may God have mercy on us all.
So sad to see two more victims of Bush’s war.
What is their sacrifice for?
$70 a barrel oil
Shrub should be forced to meet their parents.
He just may, after his people give them a good vetting to ensure that they still love him. Believe it or not their are still plenty of parents of the dead who still support the boy king. My favorite being the woman whose son was killed by a roadside bomb the first year of the war but she blamed Kerry for voting against the first $79 billion we threw down this rat hole.
new thread — Safavian Found Guilty
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..nd-guilty/
If you are so outraged over this, think of the Iraqis. Thousands and thousands of innocent children, women, and yes, men — slaughtered in the streets.
I feel bad for the US soldiers, but also for the Iraqis, which most Americans don’t.
If Americans seem rather traumatized by this, think of the Iraqis, what they see on the streets every day.
wilson, 107: “Any American who volunteered for Vietnam after 1970 was not a noble warrior fighting for freedom and democracy. “
This is way too harsh and judgemental. Those who volunteered (as opposed to being drafted) did so because they were told by their leaders that fighting in the jungles of Vietnam was defending American freedom. Even more pertinent, for many, joining the Army was the only way they could find livelihood to support themselves and their family. As you would suspect, many of these were young men of color.
Whatever your thoughts on Vietnam and the leaders in Washington (Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon), the young men who fought there are not to be blamed for anything.
I believe a retraction/apology is due.
Oh, Christy, my heart is broken. I can’t stop crying.
A quote from the article: I hope America never forgets the power of will. The soldiers I am serving with have some will and it has manifested itself daily.”
I will. I will do whatever I can. To stop. Anymore families from hurting like this.
This is so painful, I wish by somehow sharing these parent’s grief we could take some of theirs away. But I know that doesn’t happen. It’s so horrible, I can’t even imagine …
The other day at the post office, I saw an acquaintance and mentioned the war for some reason – and she said “the war, oh yeah, the war, sometimes I forget there is a war.”
I don’t watch tv, but I get the sense that the imagery that so horrified us during the Vietnam War, just doesn’t exist in the public square. It’s not on tv, not in the newspapers. You can find it on the internet, but you have to look for it.
There is nothing like the image of suffering, to bring it on home. Like that photo that Christy used a few weeks back of the soldier carrying a bleeding baby, the soldiers face buried in it’s soft warm body. OMG.
I can’t bring myself to believe that the American people just don’t care. They just don’t know. Yes, they are complicit in not knowing, but the vast majority of people are too damned busy trying to survive – both parents working full time and sometimes more – just to make ends meet. Of course this is the endgame for this administration.
But what can we do? How do we get the images that show the true horror of war in front of the American people ? It’s a simple thing but I think would make an enormous difference in how people think about and view the war and continued occupation.
cfeddy 34
You knew it would be a disaster because you use your brain. You saw what happened to the minds and spirits of our Vietnam vets. It destroys their lives, if it doesn’t actually kill them.
War brutilizes everybody it touches: soldiers on both sides and all the citizens affected.
You just can’t have a soldier who kills and maims, sees destroyed bodies everywhere, and sees his own buddies killed and maimed and not have a person whose spirit and soul aren’t warped.
I know there are people who get past it, but for these National Guard kids – - kids who were assistant managers of the Sunglass Hut a month before they arrived in Iraq – - it’s just asking too much.
So, you used your brain and I used my brain and a lot of other people did, too; and we tried to warn people.
The politicians, on both sides, did not use their brains.
I know I am beyond EPU’d but I have to say I agree with every word and every ounce of anguish in this post.
No more of this in my name, our name. This Administration, all of it, must be stopped.
orangejumpsuit: sometimes in life hard choices have to be made. Many chose prison or exile over fighting in Vietnam. I deliberately said 1970 about Vietnam — the draft was over. Sometimes ‘getting ahead’ leads to bad choices and consequences. Yes, I feel sorry for the young people that enthusiastically volunteer for Iraq but there is enough information out there (even in ‘the sticks’) for the conservative slogan “Actions have consequences” to kick in.
Shell at 119 — I expressly mentioned the innocent Iraqi (and other) civilians caught in the crossfire a number of times for a reason. The entire situation is untenable, the planning piss poor, and the whole of it makes me angry. Hope that is clear.
Shell 120 — yes, the Iraqis. Everyone. The world. It’s hell on earth, unleashed by GWBush and cronies. But we are Americans, we are supposed to control our government. We have to find a way.
I am not trying to put all the blame on the troops. May the Westmorelands, Johnsons and McNamaras roast in eternal hell! Still, choices are hard to make and there are consequences for bad ones …
My son is in the army and will be shipping to Iraq in early August. He’s 21 and graudated from basic training in April. He was supposed to be going to Afhganistan in December but that was changed two weeks ago. He was also engaged and he and his fiance decided to go ahead a get married three weeks ago. They are both 21. My husband and I are liberals, opposed to the war everything this administration has done to this country, but my son is an adult and when he decided to join the army we decided to support him in every way we can. I am can only imagine the grief the parents of these two soldiers are feeling right now.
Christy, tears as I read your post today, and thought of this poem:
And Death Shall Have No Dominion
And death shall have no dominion.
Dead men naked they shall be one
With the man in the wind and the west moon;
When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone,
They shall have stars at elbow and foot;
Though they go mad they shall be sane,
Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again;
Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.
[snip]
And death shall have no dominion.
No more may gulls cry at their ears
Or wave break loud on the seashores;
Where blew a flower may a flower no more
Lift its head to the blows of the rain;
Though they be mad and dead as nails,
Heads of the characters hammer through daisies;
Break in the sun til the sun break down,
And death shall have no dominion.
Dylan Thomas
[ed note: I’ve snipped out the middle of this — we try to stick to fair use, but you can find the whole of the poem via a google search. Or better yet, pick up a volume of Thomas’ poetry. Thanks! — CHS]
What I cannot understand for the life of me is why Americans haven’t taken to the streets over this. I hear that because there is no draft, there will be no outrage. Are Americans THAT selfish? It appears so. Yes, a few are protesting, but very few. Then there are a few more who are outraged on the computer. Where is the rest of America? I have 3 children — all in their early 20s now. I only thank GOD (or karma or whatever) that they did not enlist. I tried to raise them right. I tried to show them that, even though we are not rich, they had other choices. If a young person feels a calling to the military, this does not apply. (Do I really have to say this?) Did some American children feel helpless? When I see their parents on the teevee, their homes looked about the same as mine. Why do they feel so helpless, without any other choice? Why did Pat Tillman do what he did? It is bizarre to me.
Very well written.
What to do? As MAr Twain said ” Never anger anybody who buys ink by the barrel.”
Can you get your missive into the MSM? Send to every damn congressperson there is. Fax em! burn up their machines.
No more! No more! No More!
More blood on the hands of the psychopath Bush.
Is this a new “turning point”? He announced last night that the troops will stay as long as the Repugs are in power. Well, let’s vote on that!
The Rude Pundit called it yesterday, when he regretfully predicted this. When you torture prisoners, what do you expect their side will do to ours? God help those familes.
“I tremble for my country when I consider that God is just.” — Thomas Jefferson
Christy, thank you for your heartfelt piece this morning, and for the link to the Post article which I would have missed. I am amazed every day by the quality of the work you put out here. At least when I read these stories and am overwhelmed with sadness, I do not feel I am reading in a vacuum, because of the wonderful community you and Jane have built here. Thank you for that.
I read another article about DOD procurement in the Post this morning (I think via Atrios) and it’s not as if they are underfunded and/or not spending the money—they are just not spending it on what the “boots on the ground” most need. If you can take it, it is an important story and I am glad to see it in the MSM: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01090.html
Carol, I am so sorry your son is going to Iraq. I wish . . . words are so inadequate. May good fortune go with him and bring him home safe.
My son was always called to the military life. He has wanted to go into law enforcement since he was a pre-schooler and was advised by many people that a military background would help. He attended college for 2.5 years but it just wasn’t for him. It’s not about money for him, since my husband and I make an above average income, it is about being a soldier. I know you don’t mean offense, Shell, but it’s not about “raising them right.”
what hell hath we wrought…..
Christy,
There are states, and on a smaller scale, communities that are voting to bring their national guard troops home. I don’t know how these measures make it onto the ballots, but that is something to consider in taking action at least in getting the state’s national guard troops home. It, of course, doesn’t help get all the rest of the troops home, but it could be a good place to start.
Plus, in just finishing up with 50 Things You Can Do to Fight the Right… there are some valid suggestions in there like KEEP BLOGGING and writing letters to editors and TV stations and call-in radio shows. Support groups like Iraq Veterans Against the War and Vets for Peace. Also (currently) reading Markos and Jerome’s book, Crashing the Gates, will give us some ideas about how to end this war. Particularly in coming up with new and inovative ways to get our message out and win campaigns.
We need to just continue to speak up and maybe try at a more local level to change things and still kind of hope for the best with the bigger, national elections.
Don’t give up hope… I was recently reminded that this is a marathon, not a sprint.
From the New Yorker, 3 March 2003.
THE HEARTH
Alone after the news on a bitter
evening in the country, sleet slashing
the stubbled fields, the river ice;
I keep stirring up the recalcitrant fire,
and when I throw my plastic coffee cup
in with the new kindling it perches intact
on a log for a strangely long time,
as though uncertain what to do,
until in a somehow reluctant, almost
creaturely way it dents, collapses,
and decomposes to a dark slime
untwining itself on the stone hearth.
I once knew someone who was caught in a fire
and made it sound something like that.
He’d been loading a bomber and a napalm shell
had gone off; flung from the flames.
at first he felt nothing, and thought he’d been spared,
but then came the pain,
then the hideous dark–he’d been blinded,
and so badly charred he spent years
in recovery: agonizing debridements,
grafts, learning to speak though a mouth
without lips, to read Braille with fingers
lavaed with scar, to not want to die…
[snip]
I stood in the wind in the raw cold
wondering how those with power over us
can effect such things, and by what
cynical reasoning pardon themselves.
The fire’s ablaze now, its glow
on the windows makes the night even darker,
but it barely keeps the room warm.
I stoke it again and crouch closer.
C.K. Williams
[ed. note — I’ve snipped out part of the poem. You guys can google if you want the whole of it — it’s wonderful. But we try very hard to go by fair use as much as possible. Thanks. — CHS]
I’ve been feeling like this, too, especially angry and hurting about the war over the past two days, with a sick, sick feeling in my stomach. Part of it was seeing the picture of one of the young soldiers taken, now killed, whose face reminded me of my 8-year-old son’s face, wearing a baseball cap and on a bus heading to summer day camp. I felt that gut feeling that, as a parent, you get from time to time when you feel what it is to have a child in mortal danger, YOUR child, who morphs into ANY child, ANY son or daughter. Suddenly, it’s not something tragic that happens to someone else, you feel it for a moment like it’s happening to you.
That, along with more info about war crimes and that Hadji girl song I read about (thank god the video didn’t play for me), and I’ve just about had enough of this war and this president.
My mind and my heart haven’t changed; I was against the war before it began; I wasn’t even that happy about Afghanistan after 9/11, because war always visits the innocent as well as the guilty. But what has changed in the last week to make this simply, viscerally intolerable for me personally? Was it Bush parading in yet another photo op? Was it Rove, or the attacks on Murtha? Was it the US Embassy report about dangers in Baghdad?
I think I’m picking up on the sum total of growing outrage from everyday Americans, some of them slow to waking up, who are no longer willing to grant Bush an Allawi “bump” because NOT ONE effing thing any of them say has ANY credibility at all. How long can we let this dangerous posturing continue? When will it stop?
Christy-This morning the WAPO is excepts from a new book that are too astonding. One in particular is a quote by Bush to a CIA agent. The Agent was sent to the ranch to warn the Pres. in August 2001 because the CIA was afraid he wasn’t taking the attack warnings seriously. His response-”o.k. you’ve covered your ass, now”. This arrogant frat boy, psuedo macho whimp is the reason from before day one of terrorism and torture that the world suffers under. He thinks all he has to do is talk tough because he is king of the most powerful country in the world and his wil be done. God Bless America.
Not to excuse this horrible tragedy and the barbaric acts by the kidnappers and the wrenching feelings of the families of these soldiers. But maybe Abu Ghraib and the unprovoked killings of Iraqi civilians and torture based interrogation policies instituted by Bushie, Rummy and Cheney have played a role in this behavior by Iraqi insurgents.
What is desperately needed is more discussion on the Iraq and the terrible costs associated with the Occupation. Why hasn’t there been? One Reason: The Elite in the USA; Wall Street, Democrats, Republicans and Corporate Media, have all decided that control of Middle East Oil is necessary to continue America life as is. The propaganda and lies all reflect this.
The problem is that the US can’t control the oil fields. The Iraqis are resisting the occupation and oil production is down since the invasion. This and uncertainty of future events with George W Bush as President account for the current oil price spike. Also, Rumsfeld’s whack a mole war is unsustainable. The moles are whacking back. The violence will only escalate.
The Hard Core Option is the US beefs up its forces with the draft and really pacifies Iraq and Afghanistan creating a Greater American Prosperity and Freedom Sphere. This requires genocide which will seriously piss off a billion Muslims for generations. Even the fairly benevolent occupation of Eastern Germany by Russia was after a generation untenable.
The Malaise Option is living within our means like Brazil. This will mean wrenching changes in the USA and the end of the American Empire.
if there’s gonna be a war, there should be a draft. i would like to see the dems propose it, and then stand back and watch the country howl in protest that it’s wrong … and ask, now why is that?
Sadder than all is that the perpetrators of these geometrically expanding tragedies are busy shoveling gold into their chests while repeatedly stating their opinion that the cost is worth the goal… they are speaking THEIR truth. To them it has all been worth while; look at the economic gains this war has yielded to members of this administration; yet who among them has suffered the loss of any family member. When bush says the cost is high but it is worth it he is speaking from his heart. to him and his gang it has been worth it, quite lucrative in fact.
What to do?
Let’s see. Call our senators? Useless. The majority of them, both Reps and Dems are totally complicit in this. We can write and call as much as we can yet nothing will happen. And the Dems are utterly powerless until, God willing, they happen to take back the House and/or Senate in November.
Sending this link around to others and visiting and commenting on the numerous blogs? Sure. Why not? But it doesn’t generate anything more than hand-wringing and derision from the “right.”
Do I sound defeatist? Perhaps. Everyday we learn of a new insanity from that bunch of criminals in the WH and Congress. Everyday single day! And they get away with every crime the commit! And the press constantly gives them a free pass. The fourth estate is dead and gone. Don’t look to the media for help on this. They are part of the problem.
Our nation has been taken over by thugs and criminals. If I had my way, I’d fire the whole lot of them in Washington DC and start from scratch. Every single one of them because they are ALL complicit in this insanity.
So action. What is it to be? In the aftermath of 9/11 (God I hate writing and hearing that tired old phrase) Bruce Springsteen released “The Rising” and one particular song comes to mind when I contemplate what has happened since then and what needs to be done. The chorus in “My City of Ruins” calls us to Rise Up. And that is what we need to do.
The time is now.
Rise Up and take back our country!
Rise Up and throw those people out of the WH and into jail!
Rise Up and DEMAND accountability from OUR representatives! Forget being nice about it. That doesn’t seem to work with these people. We are a nation of laws governed by the people for the people. They work for US not vice versa. Time to hold them to account accordingly.
Rise Up and stop our soldiers from going to Iraq and Rise Up and bring them home NOW. Not next year; not in 2009; but now.
It’s time to take the gloves off, folks. This insanity has to stop and must never be allowed to happen again. A letter writing campaign just isn’t gonna work at this point.
Lest you think otherwise, I am not advocating a violent overthrow of our government (although it is an interesting academic consideration). What I am talking about is People Power; a powerful force that has literally toppled despotic regimes throughout the world. And folks, we now have a fascist, despotic regime driving our country to ruin and destroying thousands of lives in the process.
People Power. Civil disobedience, massive nationwide protest marches and sit-ins, boycotts. There will be a price for us to pay but the price of inaction is too unbearable to contemplate.
Not one more soldiers life. Not one more innocent Iraqi life. Not one more dollar spent on this atrocity.
Come on Rise Up!
End the damn war.
Isn’t a Requiem supposed to Honor the dead? I appreciate your humane feelings towards the soldiers that were tortured and killed, but how does it honor them to use the news of their death to attack the cause that they held dear enough to risk their lives? Do you think their parents, if they read your article, would feel this as support or attack? Sadly, I suspect you will believe it is supportive without understanding the hurt that it really inflicts. Many of the comments on this board are so simplistic as to be hateful – many are simply hateful. The inability to set aside pettiness for but a moment is indicative of hatred run amuck. “I care, but…” is not the same as a simple “I care.”
I’ll leave the political retorts for a more appropriate time.
ANY American who doesn’t see that this is an ILLEGAL WAR and a CRIME against our Country and the World —to me — is PART OF THE CRIME!
A turning point has been reached here folks. Let’s all “GET REAL”!
I called ALL my Congress members today while reading these posts – please – do the same. (1-888-355-3588)
TALK to others – have the courage and decency to TALK TRUTH.
Malignant is the word for the Republican party. Their behavior is beyond inept, beyond corrupt, beyond obscene. It is a malignant cancer in the Republican party. This malignant Republicanism must be recognized for what it is.
What’s all this neo-con crap about America fighting evil in Iraq. George Bush is evil. Dick Cheney is evil. Condi Rice is evil. America is causing all this evil because of Abu Ghraib. Let’s focus all our anger at this administration, which is humanity’s true enemy and the enemy of peace-loving people everywhere.
Sahsland at 150 — Is it appropriate to watch as more young men and women suffer the same fate while we all sit on the sidelines, wring our hands and say “I care.” Or do you somehow reach a point where you have to stand up and say, “Enough!” There is never a way to make things right for the parents — especially when you contemplate that their children may have been asked to die for a war that was sold to the American public based on lies. But tippy-toeing around that issue only provides political coverage for the Administration to continue exactly what it is doing. And I, for one, say enough. How do you stay silent when you think that this President is continuing to follow failed policies that are leading to more unnecessary deaths all over Iraq — both our soldiers and innocent Iraqis? How do you stay silent when our soldiers STILL do not have appropriate conditions for the situations under which they fight in Iraq? How do you stay silent when what the military personnel with whom I have spoken — both retired and current — all say that our failed policies are making things worse by the day? I, for one, cannot stay silent.
Christy,
Each of 2,500 times and the countless thousands of other anonymous victims. Thats a lot of candlepower.
We carried you in our arms on Independence Day.
Now you’d throw us all aside and put us on our way.
Oh what dear daughter neath the sun would treat a father so,
To wait upon him hand and foot and always tell him, “No”?
Tears of rage, tears of grief,
Why must I always be the theif?
Come to me now, you know we’re so alone
And life is brief.
“That George Bush and his malignant band of cronies cannot understand something so simple as ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ is appalling. Perhaps they could understand ‘An eye for an eye?’”
Something in this same vein that has always bugged me is the phrase that has been used when people like Al-Zaqwari are killed – “We brought them to justice.” I thought justice involved capture, a fair trial, being found innocent or guilty and then sentenced if guilty? Calling murder “justice” only encourages similar acts of “justice” from the other side.
After reading all of the “Fatal Inaction” article from WaPo, I am reminded of video I have seen of police at antiwar demonstrations here in the US. Is it possible that the police wear more protective riot-gear while keeping peaceful demonstators in designated free speech areas here, than our soldiers are wearing on the ground in Iraq?
I know…redundant question…Bushco…don’t I know who we’re dealing with? …epu’d…arrrggghhh…
It’s time to take back our country. There should be an angry mob of a few million outside the gates of the wh by weeks end.
dave,
You’re right as rain as always. “Bring them to Justice” is a stupid, misleading phrase. We should just blow them away and ask questions later. But, hey, at least we don’t perform human sacrifices like these Muslims do who are living in the fifth century. Know what I mean?
Sahsland #150
Why is it disrespectful to our thousands of dead and wounded soldiers and the thousands of dead and wounded Iraqi civilians to want to END THE DAMN WAR?
There is no other side here.
End the damn war NOW!
Has anyone listed the shortages, the inadequate supplies, that this government has inflicted on our troops? I’m thinking of things like the torniquets, the helmets that Cher has been raising money for, the kevlar vests that have been donated to the troops in Iraq.
I may not phrase this well, bear with me…but if the Democrats cannot get political traction on a timetable, perhaps, and this is my preferred method, is to start some kind of a shame campaign.
For example…”We have spent $XX billion on this war, we have approved $XX Billion in further expenditures….where are the kevlar vests? Where are the armored troop transports? Where are the torniquets that would have saved XX lives” Aside from Murtha, why aren’t there politicians stating the immorality of going to war without properly equipping the troops. The utter immorality of sending a soldier over there without proper protection, training, etc.
This makes me weep from frustration. The money *wasted* without helping the troops, it’s a moral issue.
Christy, thank you for posting this.
You express your outrage very well and speak for many others who, as I, can not (or do not) actively participate in the political process. I, for one, am going to become more involved. I don’t yet quite know how that will come to pass but SOMETHING has got to change. The public outrage, I believe, is gaining momentum and a different, better direction will come from a change – any change!!!
My guy’s going to Iraq next month. Thankfully, as a part of CCAT and only for 4 weeks but with daily flights into Bagdad, all I can do is hold my breath, cross my fingers, knock on wood and work to replace the evil Bush cabal. Thanks Christy for your compassion and we can all send a little love to those poor families that lost their kids in this debacle created by THE anti-christ Bush.
Taylormarsh has a good post up on ending the war and links to supporting the kerry-feingold amend.
Also the links to send a prewritten letter plus part to leave your own thoughts.
cause I am also furious with this situation and I also think we need to rise up and raise HOLY HELL.
Jose, that’s how the Muslims see it – the Americans just blow them away and ask questions later. No wonder they’re pissed off at the US. And all we hear through Bush and the MSM is “we brought them to justice” and then don’t understand why the Iraqi fighters keep blowing up our military.
Jose says:
You’re right as rain as always. “Bring them to Justice” is a stupid, misleading phrase. We should just blow them away and ask questions later. But, hey, at least we don’t perform human sacrifices like these Muslims do who are living in the fifth century. Know what I mean?
…….
I have no idea if you are snarking or really believe that. It is not clear to me, so:
We do blow them away and no questions are ever asked. We do perform “human sacrifices”. Nobody there is living in the 5th century, unless you are speaking of the rubble we created out of the cradle of civilization.
We can post away until our fingers are bloody stumps. We can campaign tirelessly for the good guys. We can volunteer and donate. But it won’t make a damned bit of difference. The elections are rigged. The repuke party is one huge & very well organized criminal enterprise. They don’t care about laws, morals, ethics. They don’t give a flying fuck about the kids fighting and dying for their corporate masters. They care only about MONEY & POWER. They are twisted, depraved, malignant, totally evil. So how do we reclaim our country from this despicable cabal?
Thanks, Christy. You printed the most important part of the poem.
When I see pictures of the Iraqis mourning their dead and wounded, and agonizing over what is happening to them and to their country, I have the same feeling I have when I see or hear of our dead and wounded–complete frustration over our impotence to stop Bush and his thugs before this tragedy goes on a minute longer. Our government may ignore these trespasses but history will find no excuse for them.
dog in the a50s there
maybe not yet, anyway…
“And you know that Bush is breathing a sigh of relief that these to brave men did not turn up in some grotesque video, alive and showing signs of torture”
what sighs and screams Bush sees in his dreams tonight as he realizes Cheney’s torture policies have returned home
http://www.johnkerry.com/actio…..e.20060620
(oops, sorry for the dyslexic error on name last time)
Christy 154
I appreciate your impassioned statement and agree that no one should or can remain silent when an honorable cause calls. My comment was more towards timing and class. There are plenty of threads to follow where we can inform, misinform, debate, conjucture, ridicule and /or insult, as you choose. Liberty requires it.
There is, however, a basic human connection that occurs from taking a brief moment to honor a life. Human dignity and respect that is lacking from much of the debate today. Which is why, IMHO, your post above would have been much more powerful if it had ended with the hug.
Herb 161
Why is it disrespectful? Kind of like protesting the war at a funeral of a soldier or at Walter Reed Hospital. Would you see that form of protest as crass or class? Not quite the same as above, but maybe you can see how it might be perceived as taking advantage of a solemn occassion to lauch a political attack.
Just don’t pretend to say a Requiem for the soldier by protesting at his funeral.
I think we can all agree that Islam is by it’s very nature a religion of peace and that most Muslims want to be left alone to practice their religion, and if their religion includes human sacrifices to their God–like the Aztecs or Mayans–how is that our business? And if Saddam was killing hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, again I ask, how is that our business?
dave,
We SHOULD bring these people to justice right there in Iraq. I propose setting up a televised court house with an Iraqi version of Judge Judy presiding, complete with an African-American bailiff.
This story is all too common. Those of us who opposed the Iraq was prior to it’s start, who claimed that the effects of Gitmo, Balad, Abu Graib would be visited on our service men and women take NO consolation in “I told you so.”
Those of us who see nothing but cheerleading by the militaryindustrialinfotainmentcomplex and who’s cheerleaders call into question the patriotism of those who dissent can only internalize our sadness and pray for our fellow citizens to awaken from their sleep and realize that it will happen one grieving family at a time.
My thoughts and prayers are for all of us.
“The people who perpetrated this torture against our soldiers should be caught and held to account %u2014 as should those people in our own military and government who have pushed the policies of state-sanctioned torture forward as legitimate means of government policy.”
The torture on their side comes from unknown criminals.
The torture on our side comes from our government policies, our government agents and our military.
It is far worse than simple hypocrisy.
Manifest the anger, sorrow and frustration into action, and work to get the power structure changed in DC.
I realize it’s not a immediate solution, however it’s the only way we can get this to stop.
If you want immediate relief, write a letter to the editor. It’s healthy to express the emotion, and it contributes to the public dialogue.
It’s the small steps taken in unison of a large community of people that can’t be denied.
All the pleading and screaming will not change the dynamics of war. When I was in Vietnam many of my friends went to jail to avoid service, some left the country while others spent every weekend protesting and trying to change public opinion.
While I was in country every single soldier knew that many of the people didn’t want us there, the ARVN’s did not fight with us, they usually ran so I see some of the same differences in Iraq.
In the end, it is merely argumentative what these protests effect had on Nixon and the war’s end. What would have really changed the dynamic is if we soldiers had just laid down our weapons and had stood up to the government. Nixons presidency and his government would have folded overnight, the trops would have come home and the public would have clamored for amnesty.
Now I have no idea if that is a workable idea or not but it makes more sense than what we are doing, and what we have done so far to end this war.
But, Jose, Islam does not permit human sacrifices to God. It’s not ‘their God’, it’s the very same God as the Christian or Jewish God. From wiki:
>>>>>>>>>>>
“There is no deity worthy of worship other than God (Allah) and Muhammad is a messenger of God (Allah).”
Brainfaht:
In the end, it is merely argumentative what these protests effect had on Nixon and the war’s end. What would have really changed the dynamic is if we soldiers had just laid down our weapons and had stood up to the government. Nixons presidency and his government would have folded overnight, the trops would have come home and the public would have clamored for amnesty.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I dream that one day the troops will return to their bases and lay down their arms, lay down their heads for some rest and refuse to fight another day in these wars. They will come home as heroes and demand, along with us, a full accounting from this administration and the elected officials who sent them there.
When my mother was still alive her favorite saying was “nothing good comes from doing bad”, and vice-versa.
In the year 2000, we did something bad. Very, very bad.
We elected a man we KNEW was a troubled, uneducated, uncurious, anti-intellectual, untraveled, unread, failure at all he tried, ne’er-do-well.
We KNEW he was bankrolled and propped up by special interests of the most selfish, intolerant, bigoted, yes evil sort. We KNEW, by the campaign he ran, that the place in this person’s soul where morality, decency, conscience, and honor should reside, a cesspool of moral turpitude called home.
We KNEW, when the first reports of voter intimidation and irregularities in Florida popped up, this tri-fecta (the cabal of James Baker, Jeb Bush, and the Scalia led Supreme Court) would not let democracy see the light of day.
We witnessed all that, and yet, we allowed, participated, and enabled it again in ‘04.
My friends, my gut tells me, these people, drunk with the power they’ve been allowed to accumulate and concentrate, will not let a little thing like elections wrench it away.
When Bush said that troops will be in Iraq as long as Republicans control the WH and Congress, he is in effect calling Iraq a Republican war. Let’s make that the issue, since he has thrown down his gauntlet.
The issue: do Americans support this Republican war? If not, throw the bums out and call them to justice.
Remember, too, the tens of thousands of Iraqis, especially the children, who have been killed in this hideous war, many by our bombs, our vehicles, and our guns.
Christy:
Words fail me. What a sad day. My heart goes out to the families and friends. May God give them the strength to cope. I see their pictures on tv. What a waste of our young.
Let me add my anger to everyone else’s. I have a nephew in the airforce. He’s attached to an army unit. He complains of the boredom he feels between the currently infrequent missions which call for his particular specialty. My brother and I thank God for that same boredom.
Here’s my particular story of ineptitude by those who “manage” this occupation: There’s an amenity where my nephew is stationed–a swimming pool. Who knows how much it cost the government to build it, or how much of that price paid for the swimming pool in the back yard of one of the cosy defense contractors in the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about more than forty years ago? There’s one small problem with the swimming pool, however. There’s no water in it!. Why? There’s no lifeguard. Why is there no lifeguard? Bureaucratic infighting over whose budget should support the salary of the lifeguard. This is the stuff of Heller’s Catch 22. If it weren’t so serious, one would laugh till one cried. Government by the Marx Brothers. When this boondoggle of a war is over, perhaps some musical genius can contemporize and bring up to date Gilbert and Sullivan’s diagnosis of how to progress in Queen Victoria’s Navy:
Sir Joseph:
Now landsmen all, whoever you may be,
If you want to rise to the top of the tree,
If your soul isn’t fettered to an office stool,
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.
Chorus:
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.
Sir Joseph:
Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
And you all may be rulers of the Queen’s Navee!
Chorus:
Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
And you all may be rulers of the Queen’s Navee!
For those of you who don’t know G&S, and for those who do, but have forgotten how prescient When I was a Lad is of the career paths of Rumsfield, Cheney, and the rest of the miscreants responsible for so much chaos, corruption, and misery, find the rest of the lyric here: http://math.boisestate.edu/gas…..pin09.html
There’s even a midi track for those who feel a yen to Karaoke the song; and perhaps someone more clever than I can write an appropriate paraphrase. I’ll sing it with gusto.
(the preview thingy seems to be not working. Hope I have my code in something approximating order).
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetuate it.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
HAD ENOUGH?
As ye sow, so shall ye reap….
I pray you reap the whirlwind, George W. Bush, you for a change, instead of these fresh-faced kids I’m looking @ on CNN right now… slaughtered in their youth, and for what?
Sahsland says: at #154
Isn’t a Requiem supposed to Honor the dead? I appreciate your humane feelings towards the soldiers that were tortured and killed, but how does it honor them to use the news of their death to attack the cause that they held dear enough to risk their lives? Do you think their parents, if they read your article, would feel this as support or attack?
Actually no, a Requiem isn’t to Honor the dead, but to remember them before the Creator and ask mercy and rest for them.
Don’t presume that these or any other servicemen necessarily conflate this war in Iraq with the general cause of serving their country. They may have or they may not have. You do them no service by assuming that George W. Bush and his war have anything to do with the true interests, sentiments, spirit, or values of this nation. I have to believe those are what our young men and women enlist to serve, and many of them quickly recognize that those interests, sentiments, apirit and valuses have been betrayed: yet they serve anyhow, and serve as well as they can. Bush and his ilk must bear responsibility for the wounds inflicted on the bodies of those men and women, and upon their sense of idealism and sacrifice.
Just to reiterate what I said earlier (#53), THE BEST THING WE CAN DO is to work in whatever way we can to remove these people from power. Rove and his gang must be pleased when they witness us reinforcing a sense of helplessness/hopelessness in each other. We’re more powerful than we realize.
Friends
I struggle with this one because I don’t believe that torture should be publicized.
I am all for honest accounts so that we the American people have information to make informed consent, but torture gives me pause.
The perpetrators want us to be shocked and horrified, and through the media they get a free ride beyond their wildest dreams.
To report that a soldier has been kidnapped and killed, and trying to determine who did it ought to be enough. To add how the bodies were damaged and how pain was inflicted does nothing but satisfy the sob who did it.
I’m sorry, but that is just how I feel.
Don’t fret, Jumping in, I don’t just pray for better government in this country, I’m working my tail off for it, too, like (I wager) many, many of the folks who post here.
It’s just that today there’s a lot of Memento Mori mixed into our usual Carpe Diem Nov. ‘06…
People ask what we can do. We can vote, we can donate, we can act.
But we also have to REMIND.
These issues need to be shoved in the face of media, of the republicans, the public. It needs to be done every day at every hour. It needs to be t-shirts and marches and bumperstickers. It needs to be in email and livejournals and blogs.
If we progressives have any problem its that there’s SO many things wong in this country its hard to pick a few to rally around. It’s a buffet of wrong.
[I absolutely will not tolerate ignorant bigotry on this blog. Try education. — CHS]
Ok, now I see that you were serious Jose. You know nothing about Islam. You know absolutely nothing. There is no human sacrifice permitted in Islam. “They are not sick people”. I don’t know your God, but I do know what they believe in. I have actually studied world religions and not just in a mini survey course. Your xenophobic racism is foul and a product of an uneducated, unexposed mind full of fear. How many American and coalition soldiers pray before they kill for God and Country? For your own sake, study someplace other than LGF or at the feet of the Neocons. How many human sacrifices have we made??????? How dare you impugn a religion and its followers with the statements you make? They are not EVIL. Is the infant of a Muslim woman and man inherently evil?
People of all religions have misused religion for their political causes. Every single one, including Christians, Jews, Muslims and more. They have done unspeakable violence in the name of religion. Our country is no exception.
I tried to interact with you earlier by giving you the benefit of the doubt. You seem to advocate the eradication of billions of good, faithful, GOD- loving people. And yes, Jose, it’s the same GOD.
I am sorry I tried.
btw, the deaths of the soldiers happened in 2004– new update. they are reassuring us that it has no bearing on the Iraqi forces today.
I hate that I cannot believe anything I hear.
on the Tues. 6/20/06 Lehrer report:
2 guest experts on the Al Qaida / Iraq problem were interviewed by Lehrer.
If I understood correctly, they essentially agreed Al Qaida influence was not much more welcomed in Iraq than was the U.S. presence. But their influence grew & was tolerated largely as an outgrowth of Iraqies’ growing resentment of U.S. [bushco] actions in the country.
Further, Al Qaida presence in Iraq has devolved into use of the area as a base for sending out cells to other areas in the world., since that apparently seemed more productive to the Al Qaida leaders’ plans than trying to win Iraqies over to their way of thinking.
If the above is true, does this scenario not totally fly in the face of what the administration has been, and still is, trying to “sell” to American people as the reason(s) for “staying the course” in Iraq?!
I have no idea what happens to posts made this late on a thread. I guess I’ll find out, or not . . .
Thanks to everyone for a heartfelt, meaningful, albeit wrenching discussion on this topic today. AND especially to Christy for a super-human effort to keep things going.
Jane: you and your mom are in our hearts and prayers.
I know [sp]. . . “Iraqis” . . .
[they call me Columbo - always just one more thing, sigh]
Bush is killing our babies. He changed the policy to torture and kill now it’s legal to do the same to our troops. Other countries are leaving Iraq while Bush sends more of our kids to die for the oil Halliburton is stealing. When will all the people stand together and stop Bush from killing our kids.
Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby:
I’d gladly give my life for the chance to rip their guts out with my bare hands. I am so livid I cannot even see.
Is there really not a goddamn thing we can do?
Following up on my last post:
Voting doesn’t help. Writing, calling, harassing my alleged representatives in Congress doesn’t help. Praying doesn’t help.
NOTHING is going to change! Dammit, dammit, how does one deal with this? Enough is enough!
We’ve been saying this for years, though!
What the hell am I left with aside from my rage?
I must admit that since Sept. 2005 when my son returned from a year in Iraq, I have avoided reading stories like this. My wife and I both used to watch the Iraq casualties sites vigilantly, reading almost as much as we could trying to understand what our son might be going through. And we would sometimes have to go through fairly extensive periods of time without hearing from him while he was out on a mission. The uncertainty was excruciating. Although I try to stay on top of the big picture politically as much as possible, the stories about what is actually happening on the ground over there are almost too much. The news this morning of course hit me the same way, and it is difficult to hold back the tears as I type this…….