
Tonight’s Late Nite post is brought to you by the letter K.
‘K’ is for Kitty.
‘K’ is also for Karma.
And ‘K’ is for Killing Your Presidential Bid for ‘08, Senator Frist.
It has been a few days since I spotted this uncredited editorial in The Tennesseean’s on-line edition, but I thought I’d share a bit of it with you.
Kitty-killer label litters Frist resume for president
There’s a potential pothole in U.S. Sen. Bill Frist’s road to the White House: He’s a confessed kitty killer.
He fessed up in his 1989 book, "Transplant," to adopting cats from shelters when he was in medical school, treating them like pets for a while, and then using them in his research experiments. Maybe in hindsight, Trent Lott should have seen it coming.
(snip)
Bet Frist wishes now he’d refrained from giving out too much information in his first book. He made his case in "Transplant" for saving lives by learning through experiments with animals while at Harvard. It’s the part where he kept them as pets first that is bothersome.
"Desperate, obsessed with my work, I visited the various animal shelters in the Boston suburbs, collecting cats, taking them home, treating them as pets for a few days, then carting them off to the lab to die in the interests of science. And medicine. And health care. And treatment of disease. And my project.
"It was, of course, a heinous and dishonest thing to do, and I was totally schizoid about the entire matter. By day, I was little Billy Frist, the boy who lived on Bowling Avenue in Nashville and had decided to become a doctor because of his gentle father and a dog named Scratchy. By night, I was Dr. William Harrison Frist, future cardiothoracic surgeon, who was not going to let a few sentiments about cute, furry little creatures stand in the way of his career. In short, I was going a little crazy."
Frist recently commented about the power he felt when holding the last beats of a dog’s heart in his hand. Good thing little Scratchy had a decent hiding place while Frist was in med school.
Oh, but come on. There’s nothing creepy or gruesome about Little Billy Frist, is there? Why you’d never think it to look at his often too-bright glassy eyes or hear him talk about himself in the third person like that, would you? Why, the Senator who brought us Seersucker Thursday is just a normal Joe like you or me. All you have to do is read that gorilla testosterone-soaked puff piece in the WaPo to know that. When the Senator from Tennessee isn’t admiring his "hairy, toned biceps" in the mirror, drying his hair with a blow-drier like a girl, or doing open heart surgery on apes, he’s a completely normal garden-variety sociopath who lives behind an emotional "Great Wall" that has "kept him from having close friends". (How the writer kept from calling this journalistic rim job "Gorillas in the Frist" is frankly beyond me, by the way.)
Ah, but you see, that is the very quality that makes Bill Frist such an asset to the the progressive movement, his utter cluelessness as to how actual humans think and act. Ever since he diagnosed Terri Schiavo by video as "just resting her eyes", he has floated one craptacular idea after another, pitched innumerable public hissy fits, stamped his little tassel loafers, and taken effete Oily Southern Preacherism places it has truly never, ever gone before, all the while exhibiting a complete tin ear for the tenor of the times, and, to borrow a Bushism™, grossly "misunderestimating" the intelligence of the American people.
Who could forget the evangelical circle-jerk that was "Justice Sunday"? Or would anybody like a hundred dollar rebate to offset the price of, oh, one, maybe two tanks of gas? How about this last week’s Senate debate about the Federal Marriage Amendment, which they knew wouldn’t pass anyway? Mmmmm, Fristolicious!
Bill Frist may be the last person in America who doesn’t know that his run for the White House is as doomed as Britney Spears’s marriage, but let’s not tell him. It’ll be fun to watch him flail around. Still, if the specters of those dozens of murdered cats are the issue that finally brings Billy down once and for all, that’s fine with me. It would have a certain pleasant karmic symmetry to it. The only thing that would be better would be for him to wander into the wrong cage at the Washington Zoo and be eaten by lions. Like a good Christian.
UPDATE: Commenter Kirk James Murphy, MD weighs in with a rather interesting point:
Frist wasn’t lying his way into the animal shelter to publish for the good of mankind – he was doing it for the career of Bill Frist.
And the pets he went to such trouble to steal suffered his vivisection without any anesthesia – unless he violated the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs regs in place at the time and compounded his other felonies by procuring narcotics he would have been unlicensed to possess or use.
So which was it, Doctor – vivisection or narcotics violations?
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T-Rex is in the house!
FITZ!
BTW, I hope sees that kitty in his nightmares every night.
What a tool.
I’m a doctor, and a scientist. I am ashamed to share these professions with such a hollow shell of a human. While I should hesitate to diagnose him from afar, clearly his writings and public behavior reveal an untrammeled ego and an unrestrained personal ambition, unleavened by humility or empathy. When I heard about the cat stories of his medical school days (where his peers used him for his private plane, I was told by one), I knew – another of those dead-behind-the-eyes types, all drive and no purpose beyond aggrandinzing themselves in one way or another.
Phew, TRex is in the house!
Just got my first screencapture of the “0″ comment! Is someone collecting these? ;)
Great post TRex!
Frist is a DINO (doctor in name only).
I wasn’t sure what to do when I got that zero. Was I supposed to do something (besides wonder if I somehow broke FDL)?
Everything about this creeps me out, but I have to say the worst is the fact that he took them home and treated them as pets first. He coulda just killed them straightaway for “his project”. This speaks to something much deeper and darker and sicker, imho.
That kind of crazy doesn’t disappear.
I’ve been bent out of shape by the $9 billion missing in Iraq recently, but this evening I read an article that puts that degree of squandering in perspective.
R. Jeffrey Smith, in the WaPo, writes of Rumsfeld’s role in the $30 billion air tanker scandal — more precisely his lack of a role in Pentagon procurement in general. An excerpt from this must-read piece:
Yes, $850 billion, with a “b”. Read and bask in the incompetence.
TRex- thank you. You have such a way with words, absurd humor, or in this case, ? black / bleak commentary. Scientists get slammed for using animals for research, but there now are strict ethical guidelines for such research, and neither then, nor now, nothing about Frist’s cat usage can be constued as even remotely ethical. Thank you for highlighting this.
Ugh! Kitty killer! Bleech!
Oh, Lordy, “Gorillas in the Frist!” You’re killin’ me, TRex!
Cat-Killer is just an extreme specimen of Incubus Republicanus.
Prevaricating, Parasitic, Plundering, Plutocratic, Pedantic, Pecksniffian, Pissant Poltroon Practicing Plundering, Pandering while Pugnaciously Proceeding towards Perdition.
Yup, Suzanne. You broke it. I don’t know how we’re going to Fitz it now! ;)
It’s just a weird anomaly. I’ve never seen it before but others have.
One of my colleagues put it best: Can you imagine how big your ego has to be when being a cardiothoracic surgeon isn’t enough for you?
…speaking of kitties folks…the missing feral I feed? – the one who has not come to eat for nearly 5 days because of a pack of foxes (voraciously hungry juvenile delinguent kits – the whole nuclear family!) that has taken over this 5 1/2 acres- was spotted on the hill tonight before dark. So he is still alive…I never said this last night but I found a boneyard where the kits frolic…three separate skulls which I brought back to my bone pile…the man on the other side of the hill says his cat has not been home for 2 nights for supper…we are all very nervous so began today to walk the property with our mutts on leashes and do a bunch of pissing around in all the cornors and shrubbery…hope that the foxes get the message that we live here too…
tasch @ 4, and any lawyers who specialize in medical cases
Medical researchers (both the MD and PhD varieties) have strict protocols regarding the use of animals in the lab – how they are obtained, how they are treated in general, and how they are treated as a part of approved research projects. Failure to follow these protocols have serious repercussions for the researcher, their colleagues, and the institution involved.
It strikes me that Frist is admitting to what was likely a violation of med school regulations regarding unauthorized research procedures, not to mention University and CDC research protocols, and possibly various state and federal laws.
Does this admission put his medical license in jeopardy? Inquiring minds want to know.
He’s a tool, all right – but is he a busted tool?
Cats are outta the bags?
I am not against scientific research, either.
Frist went to school as a priviledged person in America and graduated in 1978 from med school. He had no need or right to do what he did.
Thanks, TRex– Frist will never be preznit, he looks weak and whiney and can get nothing done.
After all that discussion of homoerotic imagery in the last threat, we have this actually-almost-on-topic change of pace:
http://tinyurl.com/r37az
Now to click over to Expedia.com for my LHR tix.
I wonder if I should ask Frist if he would like to do a guest post on my blog? He should be quite cozy.
It would not surprise me at all to find out that he really kept them as “pets” only past the point when he might get a followup call from the shelter. In other words, just covering his ass for lying when adopting them.
However, he was clearly a precocious Republican — getting an early start on lying to honest working people for his own benefit, while self-righteously convincing himself it was for the greater good.
“…last thread…”
But then Cdr. Codpiece is a threat to civilization.
I’m curious as to what exactly he was researching? And why didn’t he have the resources and animals at the Med School to do all this? And, exactly how did he kill these animals? An injection? Do med students run around with injections in their back pocket?
Frist is just one disturbed dude.
Ghostman
OFG
That is too funny! I double dog dare ya!
No prisoners, T.
‘So that’s what opening up a can of wimp-ass feels like.’
;>)
Since it was sorta EPU’d, a repost –
Why do Joe Klein and all of the rest of the Beltway Pundits luv them some Bush Codpiece?
One word answer — MONEY.
Their jobs depend on it. If they don’t fluff the Gucci Maximus, their pasty white asses will be out on the street.
In high school, I found an obscure little book –
“Translations from the English” — an example:
I didn’t do anything! — translation: he hit his brother.
I just sorta pushed him! — translation: he hit his brother.
Maaaaaa!!! — translation: his brother hit him.
Anyway — there was one chapter where a woman is trying on ugly but expensive hats — the uglier and more expensive the hat, the more the sales people gushed about how beautiful she looked.
The point being, ugly expensive hats are the stupidest things the manager ever ordered, and if they can’t unload them on a rube, they are gonna be stuck.
For the Cocktail Weenie Pundits, all it takes is a raised eyebrow from those who sign their paychecks — if you don’t fluff the Bush codpiece like your name is Linda Lovelace, your ass is gonna end up on a heating grate outside of RFK stadium.
And Joe Klein delivers –
Joke Line delivers? Tell him we don’t need any.
Not quite sure what votes Frist is going after, aside from dogs, gorillas, and Terri Schiavo’s parents.
Physical comparisons are cheap, but doesn’t he remind you of Norman Bates in Psycho? It’s the eyes. And the doo.
trex: meooowww! best frickin post evah!!
A laurel and hardy “Yeeeehhhawww!” to you from down here in nashvegas!
Republican Senate Majority Leader and Presidential Candidate Kills Kittens. What a superb headline! The Weekly World News never came up with anything better than that.
What a freak show these people are! You put troglodyte conservatives in charge of all three branches of government, and they go stark, raving mad. Our country, the world’s only superpower and the most powerful nation in history, is being run by whacked-out nutjobs! This is like something out of Dante, William S. Burroughs and Kafka all rolled into and set into reality. You can’t make this stuff up!
Al Gore on Charlie Rose now.
Charlie Rose: Do you think Bush intended to invade Iraq when he was first elected?
Al Gore: No, I don’t think Cheney had told him he was going to invade Iraq.
Snap!
….PS: hilarious post TRex…oh, to be a fly on the lion cage wall as little Billy is ground up and pulverized…we can add him to my bonepile…
http://www.geocities.com/ifthe…..s_too.html
I’d use html tags, but I’m afraid I’d get fleas.
btw, I’m pretty sure Gayle Kerr wrote that piece in the Tennessean.
Twin Planets, OMG. And these freaks jump ship and go into the defense contracting arena? Republicans gripe about funding schools? God do we ever need a Commission on War Profiteering. No wonder half the country is on mood elevators. This is incredibly depressing.
Following up on the legal liability stuff . . .
It strikes me that the Bad Doctor’s admission may put him beyond the statue of limitations, but I’m still interested in how his admitted misconduct would be treated today.
Unless, of course, he continued in his extra-curricular research after completing med school . . .
Don’t give up on Frist. We need him. We should all switch over to the Republican party, just so that we can vote for Frist in the primaries.
Kibills ‘n Frist isn’t your ordinary catfood.
I hope he is the first human[?] in North America to get Bird Flu, and a cat kills him — saving the rest of us!!
SPeaking of GOoPer ‘08 longshots, what ever happened to Haley Barbour?
Seriously though, Frist is done. He may run for President, but he’ll drop out early after a terrible showing in the first few primaries. He’ll be gone from the Senate. He doesn’t have enough gravitas to be an elder statesman. He’ll go back into the private sector, either in healthcare or lobbying, or Michael Jackson will hire him as his private vet and he will live out his days operating on chimps with his hairy biceps.
Wonder which guy from Tenn would win the state today– Gore or Frist.
No contest.
Dr. Frist and Mr. Hyde your pets.
Here kitty kitty, Honey have you seen the cat. Last I saw he was over little Billy’s yard.
My cousin works at a pet food factory — if Herr Dr Frist were turned into kibble, would the kitties eat it? Or would they sense the poison, and walk away?
Twin Planets @ 9:13 pm (#10) – That system’s been broken for a long, long time. Clinton and Gore tried to fix it a little when they were in office, but hardly put a dent in it, really.
And frankly, if Rumsfeld had paid attention, I suspect things would be even worse. His Iraq war plan is exhibit B in that case.
Peter at 18. As Angie says, he graduated in 1978 – regulations regarding animal use were FAR less stingent then. Today, misplaced paperwork or other relatively trivial infractions can cost you your ability to use animals, which can be tantamount to a career ending. Real oversight exists, and all experiments are reviewed by a number of oversight bodies. Back then, far more lax.
What’s interesting, though, is what Ghostman 25 brings up – just what the hell exactly was he doing? Was it in a lab, as Frist seems to imply, or were these “experiments” performed on the kitchen table. If the former, why couldn’t the research mentor (the faculty member who runs the lab) provide animals for appropriate and well-designed experiemtns? If the latter – what exactly was his goal. I seriously doubt in that case that any “research” was his goal – highly unlikely to generate any publishable observations that move a field forward, and inform other researchers’ thinking. I obviously don’t know first hand what happened, but one wonders – were they experiments at all? That is, was there really a hypothesis, and well-designed experiments? Or, was this simply a was for amitious young Frist to get more technical surgical practice – a way to get a leg up on his peers, perhaps. Or, more darkly, an activity to satisfy some ghoulish fetish of his.
I’d rather hoped Frist would be in court facing insider trading and conflict of interest charges. But I guess he’sd just be pardoned with the rest of the Class of ‘09.
touche pas a mon chatton, Fristeau
tu regrettras
Peterr says:
June 19th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
tasch @ 4, and any lawyers who specialize in medical cases
Medical researchers (both the MD and PhD varieties) have strict protocols regarding the use of animals in the lab – how they are obtained, how they are treated in general, and how they are treated as a part of approved research projects. Failure to follow these protocols have serious repercussions for the researcher, their colleagues, and the institution involved.
It strikes me that Frist is admitting to what was likely a violation of med school regulations regarding unauthorized research procedures, not to mention University and CDC research protocols, and possibly various state and federal laws.
Does this admission put his medical license in jeopardy? Inquiring minds want to know.
He’s a tool, all right – but is he a busted tool?
———————————————————-
Probably not. Frist’s admitted kitty-killing days were prior to 1989. Protocols, if they were in place at all, were much less stringent back then, and Frist wasn’t doing legitimate research for his institution. He was just practicing on kitties.
As for his medical license, I doubt kitty-killing would jeopardize it. Research on people, yes. But I’ve never heard of animal research coming up in medical licensing proceedings.
The only trouble I could see Frist getting into is if he tried to get a new animal protocol now. A history of dopting kitties from the pound and then butchering them would make most review boards think twice about approving your protocol.
Bottom line: It’s really creepy, and definitely unethical, but I don’t think his license is in any jeopardy, and I’d assume that the statute of limitations on animal cruelty has long since expired.
Jeffrey Dahmer kept his victims around as pets for a few days, too, just like Doctor Frist. Then he performed surgery on them, just like Doctor Frist. Dahmer was not a doctor, though.
He was a Sociopath, just like Doctor Frist.
Seems like Frist’s unethical stock sale just disappeared under myriad other Republican graft, corruption, crony captalism, trickle down economics, budget deficit, never ending war, domestic spying, torture, extraordinary rendition, constitution shredding, inflation, rising interest rates, rising insurance and health care costs, va and medicare/medicaide benefit cuts, job losses, stock market tanking…
They sure nailed Martha Stewart, though.
a big you rock trex. the weirdest thing about the ‘confession’ from frist is that he somehow thought the telling of the story was worth it so he could give his pathetic ‘it was so hard for me’ speel, like we would somehow bond w/the poor soul who’s ‘been there’ that tragic pre med suffering thru psychotic disfunction torn between right and wrong, those little kittys, he had to experience them for a tad, and then the torture, not of them , but himself, the sacrifice, his anticipation it would somehow add to his ‘complexity’ his ‘depth’ ahh, let me count the ways.. the ways he’s clueless.
ck ~
Every feline personage I know has standards for food. They would probably try to bury Frist Kibble, if they were ever to happen across it. As they do with “other undesirable items”.
Frist’s performing unsanctioned experiments on animals was wildly unethical. It is my understanding that many medical schools no longer do dog and pig labs because they are seen as seen unnecessary and inherently cruel. Even those that still do, usually use dedicated animals, ones that have been specifically bred for this fate, not ones from the local pound. The status of limitations has no doubt long since run out but what Frist did likely violated laws concerning the humane treatment of animals.
As for the gorilla story, IIRC it was a noninvasive echocardiogram. Frist got blood all over the place because he did a hack job of setting an IV line. As for the reporter, she was pretty clearly engaged in more than intellectual masturbation as she was writing the piece, overpowered as she was by the heavy scent of Frist’s sweat and, no doubt, her own.
I was actually looking at the Schiavo Bill earlier today. It was passed by a voice vote in the Senate. Besides Frist, it had two cosponsors: Rick Santorum and Mel Menandez. In the House, the vote was Yeas 203, Nays 58, NonVoting 174. It appears that most House Democrats voted with their feet. In the face of stupid legislation, they should do it more often.
Man, this kitty looks pissed.
Nerouphius, popping in and out tonight, can;t stay. I’ll catch up with you tomorrow about VWR and look for BobbyG’s pics.
TRex, finally got my fix. You be just fine. Glad to see Frist’s pathology has people’s attention and is not yet another fog fact drifting around uncoupled from the larger narrative that the Republican leadership are {{pretty scary people}}, to a man.
him being political toast was confirmed for me when Boehner called his gas rebate idea “stupid”, omg, we aren’t the only ones who see what a tool he is, he’s a joke in Congress
so yeah T Rex, I’m with you in enjoying the public unravelling while it lasts
tasch- I’m a researcher in biomed sciences. All I can see from Frist’s activities is that he wanted to learn how to dissect cats better than anyone else. I had assumed that he did this on the kitchen table or nearby, but maybe he did do it in a lab. If a big lab, the PI might not notice.
mommybrain @ 9:44 pm (#57) – To me, he just looks curious. By the way, like many people I’m a sucker for “animals sniffing the camera” shots. I have no idea why, and don’t really want to explore that question.
My invitation to Bill is up!!
Man, this kitty looks pissed.
Indeed. My brother laughed at this picture and said, “Man, that cat is so ALL BUSINESS.” It’s what I hope is the first thing Frist sees when he wakes up in Hell. A giant cat (or two!) come to torment and slowly dismember him.
FOREVER!!!
Beware of my moderator!!
Twin Planets @ 10
Welcome to FDL.
Two years ago ? The Atlantic published a story mining the same vein AND pointed out that 40 % of the weapons systems ordered were Cold War Era hardware,, redundant as crap – God forbid contractors actually spend anything on true R & D, or replace a die or two
Peterr @18
Thanks for your thoughts and concern…Frankenfrist is a TOOL and animal rights, ESPECIALLY animals for experimentation considerations are still in the dark ages. As far as any kind of punishment, can you say, “Statute of Limitations”? I agree with the earlier comment, “…That kind of crazy doesn’t go away”.
How can these guys win elections with such a shiny hiney to kick around?
(still laughin) OFG, you win the double dog dare.
Frist-o-path
Frank Probst #16
“Can you imagine how big your ego has to be when being a cardiothoracic surgeon isn’t enough for you?”
Pretty much says it all. I think his use of animals was to practice making incisions and suturing on live tissue.
Has anyone ever asked for Harvard Med School’s reaction to the night-time experiments of one of their former students? C’mon, someone out there must know or can find out easily.
That picture is actually a moving picture of the cat shooting the machine gun. I’m so dense on this computer stuff I don’t know how to make it go.
omigod, 71, you HAVE to figure that out!! call for backups if need be!!
What is Frist’s obsession with cats? First he does Frankenstein Junior experiments on them; now he spends his time herding them in the Senate.
dunaise…I still like “Frankenfrist”
tasch, VG, Frank Probst, et al.
In general, your reactions fit with what I thought, too. I’m not a researcher, but know more than a few, and I’m well acquainted with the current protocols. Frist’s story does sound like an ego run amok, trying to get more cutting time, as opposed to some (under the bench) quasi-research project.
Frank, I think you’re right that simply screwing up on the animal protocols wouldn’t get someone’s medical license for treating humans yanked. But would the breach of med school rules (such as they may have been) and the ethical questionability of this kind of activity be enough to get someone tossed out of school, had he been caught in the act?
Or, given the era, would they have been overlooked as another good-old-boy surgeon wanna-be being a little over-zealous?
mauricehall 70 – I’m sure Frist family donations would/do maintain a decorous silence with regard to this alum.
That photo and headline are the funniest I’ve seen, TRex. Fristy-paws!
Btw, did you ever return to FDL with the big Greek olives the other night? I had to buy some the very next day.
Peterr,
They would have applauded him for his cutthroat (so to speak) initiative. It’s the A-Type thing.
What I don’t get is why Frist the Catkiller wrote about his illicit activities in his book. Is his ego so big that he could not imagine anyone having a negative reaction to anything he did?
neurophius,
Short answer: yes. It was merely another case of his notorious tin ear striking again. It’s the reason that doctors in politics give me cold chills. They form an opinion that reality breaks like surf upon.
Thank you, TRex, for nailing this bastard.
I’m a physician who spent several years working with transplant recipients (and living donors).
Frist is a fecal smear on the heel of medical ethics.
Med students hoping to jump on the surgical speciality income stream are notoriously competitive. One very real area of competition is the acquisition of sufficient manual skills as to stand out among all the other ambitious med students wanting to be surgeons.
Frist wasn’t acting in the light of any university program or academic authority. Frist wasn’t obtaining data for publication, and he does not cite any rejection letter from biomedical publishers resulting from any attempts to publish “data” from the pet vivisection.
Frist admits to the commission of multiple criminal acts – not in the furtherance of medical science, but in the service of his own ambition.
Frist wasn’t acting as a medical researcher.
Frist was alone in his little shop of horrors, cutting up family pets he obtained through acts of criminal fraud. At the time Frist was a medical student, federal block grants supported animal shelters. Frist may well have used fraud in obtaining pets (objects of value in the most mercenary eyes) from Federally funded programs.
Good training for a scion of the family whose business – HCA – would loot the Federal treasury for billions.
Frist wasn’t lying his way into the animal shelter to publish for the good of mankind – he was doing it for the career of Bill Frist.
And the pets he went to such trouble to steal suffered his vivisection without any anesthesia – unless he violated the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs regs in place at the time and compounded his other felonies by procuring narcotics he could have been licensed to possess or use.
So which was it, Doctor – vivisection or narcotics violations?
Oh, I think I have figured it out. Referring back to the Commander Codpiece thread, maybe Frist just wanted people to see him as an “interesting cat”–if not, indeed, a “dangerous dude.” Probably the same reason he wants to be president.
I’m with Tasch & Ghostman. What exactly was Frist doing with the cats in 78 & 79 etc. that was scientifically valuable? I suspect he was just practicing surgery, but that’s just me.
Legally he’s probably in the clear. The reg’s then were pretty minimal for animal experimentation. At my alma mater one needed to show a valid reason for use of an animal & a protocol that demonstrated humane treatment of the animals and that was about it. Around about the early 80’s the requirements started getting tighter, with more formal reviews, more defined committee structures. Year by year the oversight on animal experimentation increased then ultimately Federal regulations kicked in and a uniform nation-wide standard was imposed. It is pretty demanding (and expensive).
We science-types avoid using animals unless we have to. Especially if the animal has to be sacrificed. I’m much happier with experiments where the goat gets to go live in a pasture for the remaining years of its life.
p.s. The goat in the pasture routine is a whole lot cheaper than killing the goat!
Go figure.
…and the cat said, “I hate Fristes to pisses!”
neurophius,
What a catty thing to say, and likely true.
We’re having entirely too much fun with this one TRex.
Hey, Dana!
Btw, did you ever return to FDL with the big Greek olives the other night? I had to buy some the very next day.
I got tapinade, hummus, gruyre, prosciutto, and a loaf of semolina with sesame seeds all over the outside, a bag of “two-bite” brownies, and a six pack of black cherry vanilla cokes. I usually don’t drink sodas, but that sounded so intriguing, somehow.
Peterr says:
June 19th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
tasch, VG, Frank Probst, et al.
Frank, I think you’re right that simply screwing up on the animal protocols wouldn’t get someone’s medical license for treating humans yanked. But would the breach of med school rules (such as they may have been) and the ethical questionability of this kind of activity be enough to get someone tossed out of school, had he been caught in the act?
———————————————————-
Depends. If he did it on school grounds, then maybe, although I think most schools would give you a verbal reprimand, dump the cat, and pretend it never happened. Booting a med student for kitty-killing is going to be bad press, and I think most med schools would just cover it up.
If he did it off school grounds, I don’t think there’s anything a med school could do unless he was actually convicted of a crime, and even then I’m not sure they could boot him. Kicking someone out of med school is extremely difficult to do, and I don’t think most places would bother for something like this.
neurophius @ 79
Either his ego IS that big, or his eyesight is that poor. Talk about blindness to reality!
Or (shudder) he’s confident that any flak he takes from PETA will be made up for by the anti-PETA folks.
Still, this is the guy who rides herd on lots of medical research legislation. He sits on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, whose “jurisdiction encompasses most of the agencies, institutes, and programs of the Department of Health and Human Services, including the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Institutes of Health, the Administration on Aging, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, and the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. The Committee also oversees public health and health insurance statutes to address emerging threats and changing patterns in the healthcare industry.” [from the committee website]
I wonder how his background in unauthorized veterinary procedures has helped him as he crafts legislation governing the FDA, CDC, NIH, and all the rest.
Feline Die-on
And to think that people like Frist have the gall to talk about “a culture of life.” I would not want to trust the lives of American servicemen and women, let alone innocent Iraqi (or Iranian, or…) women and children, to someone with his sense of ethics.
At first, I wondered why on earth he would want such a ghoulish detail in the public record. Then I thought that maybe he saw it as a dash of bravado, breaking the rules in the pursuit to save lives, and fully worth the risk of appearing a freak. Finally, it occurs to me that maybe it never happened at all, that this dashing young Dr Jekyll is something he dreamed up for the book.
Then again, maybe I just don’t want to admit that I live on the same planet with this weirdo.
neurophius says
June 19th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
What I don’t get is why Frist the Catkiller wrote about his illicit activities in his book. Is his ego so big that he could not imagine anyone having a negative reaction to anything he did?
———————————————————-
Ditto what Hugh said. Frist is a cardiothoracic surgeon. Did you see the movie “Malice”? Alec Baldwin played one of the modest ones.
Was he married while in med school? If so, where was Mrs. CatKillerFrist if he was doing this immoral behavior on the kitchen table?
Cat on a Hot Tin Ear
I think it may be a long shot to get any charges to stick at this juncture, but this is a crime that can be tried ad infinitum in the court of public opinion.
Dr. Kirk J. Murphy, can I excerpt a bit of your comment in an update to this post?
kirk james murphy, m.d. @ 81 -
Hadn’t thought of the narcotics angle . . . If he tried this w/o anesthesia, I’d guess that the “patient” would have fought back rather ferociously, so I’d put my money on narcotics violations.
And given what they’ve done with narcotics laws in the war on drugs, the statute of limitations is a bit different there . . .
neurophius says
June 19th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
What I don’t get is why Frist the Catkiller wrote about his illicit activities in his book. Is his ego so big that he could not imagine anyone having a negative reaction to anything he did?
I don’t think it’s so much his ego as his deluded fantasy that there’s really nothing wrong with what he did so long as it gets him to his “god-given purpose” (eg cardiothoracic surgeon) — and I can’t believe I just used that Rick Warren term, but that’s totally what he’s thinking. “God wants me to be (insert powerful, moneymaking thing here), and I will step on what the hell ever I want to get there. By the way, if I’m saved, all my sins will be forgiven.”
Cat on a Hot Tin Ear
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Oh, punaise.
Sigh.
Frank Probst
I didn’t see the movie, but I think I get the idea.
One morning, as Bill Frist was waking up from anxious dreams, he discovered that in bed he had been changed into a monstrous bewhiskered tabby. He lay on his wooly back and saw, as he lifted his head up a little, his pale, arched abdomen divided up by rows of little nipples. From this height the blanket, just about ready to slide off completely, could hardly stay in place. His furry tail, pitifully thin in comparison to the rest of his circumference, flicked helplessly before his eyes.
“What’s happened to me,” he thought. It was no dream
Franz Kafka’s first, frist?, draft.
angie at 9,
My guess is that Frist was, creepily, abiding by the “letter of the law” in taking the cats and pretending to adopt them for a few days.
Before killing them during experiments.
I can’t quite get that into my head, that he actually treated living creatures like that. Rescuing them, feeding them, giving them a home and then, KILLING THEM?
Hugh 56 — That would be Mel Martinez, not Menandez. Martinez is a daily disgrace to the great state of Florida.
The amazing thing to me is that this book had been out for ten or eleven years BEFORE Frist was elected to the Senate. What the hell is wrong with Tennessee? Did his opponent strangle babies? I mean, what was worse than fraud and betrayal? And what the hell’s wrong with the Senate Republicans? Trent Lott was no prize, but replace him with Frist? Who was, IRRC, hand picked by Bush and Rove. Well, I guess we know what the hell’s wrong with them. Given the amount of blood they have on their hands, a few feline murders are a mere bagatelle.
I had heard Frist referred to as a cat killer, but I thought they meant in authorized experiments with protocols and everything. That’s yucky, and I don’t like thinking about it, and I sure can’t tell Obie and Tanya I think this, but I am not opposed to animal research as such. Given the number of animals euthanized in shelters every year, I can’t say they should all just die in vain. But make pets of them and then kill them? Jeebus. That just makes my skin crawl. That really does sound like serial killer precursor behavior. Eeeuw doesn’t begin to cover it.
yo, TRex!
According to Wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frist, he had already decided to enter politics and was advised to have a career outside politics first. THEN he went to medical school.
punaise,
Cat on a Hot Tin Ear
MEOW!
Hugh @ 101
Metamorphosis indeed!
LOL
TRex- re: Kirk’s great comment, this is what I have seen before on FDL many times. Never seen a problem with doing this. Say- (e.g.) update, I would like highlight a part of this comment from our commenter xxx at (give link) http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-150149
kirk james murphy, md – 81 — exactly right. I was trying to look at all the possibilities in my earlier posts – though I believe that the likeliest explanation is that he wanted to have the best surgical technique – to advance his career ahead of his peers.
The issue you raise in intriguing – as it likely occurred in his home, or on the sly in someone’s lab – did he cause massive pain and suffering, or did he steal anesthetic/narcotic drugs? Which is it – and I think a better comparison is with Dr. Mengele, not Dr. Frankenstein.
Frist reminds me of a doctor being prosecuted for the death of an infant on the operating table. The grieving parents were suing because they found out the doctor used no anesthetic. The doctor deadpanned on the stand, “Infants don’t need anesthetic, just tape to hold their arms and legs down.”
Hugh 101, love it.
“. . . and then, Dr. Senator Bill Frist realized that he was watching HIMSELF diagnose himself on television as he lay in a persistent vegetative state. ‘I believe I am just resting,’ he said to the reporter asking him to diagnose himself. . . “
Btw, FDL’ers, I’m not in the mood to get a colonoscopy, so do yall think I should just send Dr. Senator Bill a photo of my asshole? I sure do.
Thanks for the correction BarbaraB.
PS -
Oh yeah – I forgot – little Bill Frist’s torture orgies in any medical school would consitute unauthorized use of public facilities purchased with federal funds (yep, even Harvard).
Every single separate suture or piece of equipment he used in pet torture is another act of theft from the institution.
(yep, out of stute of limitations – but duration of public opinion…?)
May his victims fill his every dreaming moment. Should his mind fail, may they fill his every waking moment. Free of physical torment, threat, or injury, may he never know a moment’s respite from the sounds, sights, and odors or his victims.
True physicans are healers.
Bill Frist, you are no physician. You willingly, eagerly chose to torture in furtherance of your ambition.
You are accursed. Your name will always be remembered with the torturing physicians of Gitmo, Bagram, and Diego Garcia.
Far be from me to start up the whole food train again, but TRex, I bought semolina bread with sesame all over it too! Then it seemed right to pick up about 10 bottles of wine as long as I was out, and thinking then of fruit, I grabbed a box of fresh raspberries. “Thinkin of the fridge, thinkin of you.” ( That’s a line from a funny hate poem by Michael Ondaatje called “Rat Pie” that I’d love to make for Frist.)
It is also interesting to note that Dr. Frist appears to be a chickenhawk. Born in 1952, it looks like he would have graduated from high school in about 1970 and been an undergraduate from 1970 to 1974 (can anybody say, “Vietnam”?) Then graduated from medical school in 1978. His bios don’t say anything about military service. Not unusual for a Republican politician. But you can bet he’ll never cut and run.
neurophious 91 – Frist’s “culture of life” is more “couture” than “culture”. He tries it on to see how it fits. If not, he abandons it for another. All about the vanity.
When he looks in the mirror, though, it’s a lot like The Picture of Dorian Grey.
Twin Planets 10 – great link. What has gotten into WaPo lately? Journalism and stuff in multiple stories.
Republicans don’t cut and run, they duck and cover.
Trex 96 -
Thanks for your kind question – I’d be honored if you chose to repost any of my rantings… :)
And please feel free to call me kirk – it’s my name, and I only drag the title when I’m harrumphing about med stuff…. :)
[We have so many great folk with different skills here (journalists and bakers and attorneys and… oh my!) I just feel like one among many equals in the comment section, and I wouldn’t want my “letters” to send a different message.]
Wild Bill Hackoff
From below thread:
wesgpc
I’m back from doing volunteer reconstruction work on Gulf Coast last week.
Missed you, but HUGE PROPS for your efforts!
Notice we have an Economist ad on the blog? ;)
that photo is too funny and so perfect. it has been amazing to see how completely incompetent frist is as senate majority leader. and for him to think he’s a viable candidate for president — the man is dangerously delusional. but for entertainment’s sake i do wish him a long campaign — maybe he can partner up with george allen… lol
and,
Twin Planets #10: re pentagon ‘waste’ — did you catch the very end sentence that on 9/10/01 rumsfeld had mentioned in a speech about $2.3 TRILLION that could not be tracked. i actually recall reading about that and was surprised at the startling admission. but we all know what happened at the pentagon on 9/11/01. and guess what department took the hit:
“One Army office in the Pentagon lost 34 of its 65 employees in the attack. Most of those killed in the office, called Resource Services Washington, were civilian accountants, bookkeepers and budget analysts. They were at their desks when American Airlines Flight 77 struck.”
http://www.s-t.com/daily/12-01…..2wn018.htm
Maybe in revenge, the kitties could make Frist cat-a-tonic.
Bonzarella 111 -
How bout saving the trouble and sending a pointer to his bathroom mirror?
bonzarella says
June 19th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
…Btw, FDL’ers, I’m not in the mood to get a colonoscopy, so do yall think I should just send Dr. Senator Bill a photo of my asshole? I sure do.
kirk james murphy, m.d. @ 113
You wouldn’t happen to have been Lloyd Bentson’s physician, would you? I can hear his voice now . . . Bill Frist, I know some physicians. Physicians are friends of mine. And you, sir, . . .
I suspect, given your umbrage here, that your name will always be remembered by your patients for very different reasons than those for which Frist will be remembered. Blessings to you, and to your patients.
Lotsa work goes into earning them letters, sawbones. It sorta classes the place up somehow, what being peopled with Oilfield trash and all ;D
kirk #124, I’m laughin out loud. . .
but you better believe my asshole is better looking than his calico-killin mug :)
Food thread?
Oh, we got food in the house of TRex’s brother, tonight.
The garden has started to chug now that the days are hot and long.
I picked a gallon of green beans yesterday. This is after my lovely wife picked a gallon and a half two days earlier. We are canning them as fast as we can.
We have enough cukes in the fridge to make a gallon of pickles, too.
And the first homegrown tomato BLTs were made and eaten here tonight.
We’ve been eating fresh snow peas for almost a month, now, so they’re waning. The sweet potatoes are sending out runners….
Don’t ask about the pumpkins. Just lock your back door tonight… you don’t want to wake up to pumpkin kong knocking your bedroom door down….
Shoephone 10:35 p.m.
“Culture of life”? No, “Cult of death.”
spiderpaws 17 – I hope your feral guy shows up where you can feed him. I am told over and over that foxes won’t attack healthy cats, but I still worry. Two of my dogs get to roam the property free when I go out (they are very good dogs) and the male shepard has marked EVERYWHER (even the female lab/weim has marked) The only fox we had were near a decrepit barn and the dogs never bothered them, but the coyotes have moved far away. I can tell from the yipping and howling at night. Hopefully your tactics will works as well.
homegrown tomato BLTs? oooh. Do you have to eat them over the sink because they’re so juicy? Those are my favorite.
Frist is a cat-astrophy.
BTW how difficult is it to get a hold of ether? It’s flammable but it is one of the original anesthetics.
This whole story sort of makes you glad that Ecstacy wasn’t around when Bill Frist was in college.
ewww!
Frist contributors = Fee line
Hello Patrick! BLTs- great weakness of mine. Comfort food. If not home made, Waffle House is the best I have found, so far.
That was too easy punaise.
this is the site for frist:
mycathatesyou.com
Waffle House does BLT’s? I did not know that.
kirk 119 and ofg 126
Appreciate the humility, kirk, but when someone’s speaking from within their field of specialization, it’s good to know that they’ve got something to back up their comments. On this thread, it’s helpful to know you’re someone who knows about operating and not just speculating.
Was it Dizzy Dean who said “It ain’t braggin’ if it’s true”?
Yeah but Yoggi Berra said if you come to a fork in the road, take it.
Is it true that Frist owns a vacation hideaway in the Catskills?
peterr 125
- thanks so much…. such a comparison is high praise indeed, and far beyond me….
(and thanks for the kind assumption about my patients’ recollections…I fear those who kept hearing my nagging about the need to get labs or stop meth/tobacco/et al may be less generous..)
valleygirl 108 -
i’m blushing…
shucks….
tasch 109 -
thank you… i’ve known and worked with some completely honorable surgeons….they talked openly about how the ambitious applicants taint everyone….can’t imagine a better example than Fristie.
Well, it’s late and I need to go to bed. I’ll try that trick I learned from mfi
*pweeet* (damn, I need to get that thing fixed)
neurophius,
Catskills, the fur and puns are flying thick.
Catskills? I thought it was a beach house in Kittyhawk.
OT From Josh Marshall, Joe DiGenova is floating trial balloons about letting Scooter off the hook. “Make no mistake, this is a trial balloon, an effort to test the waters and prepare the public for Libby’s eventual pardon. And you should expect that the president will pardon Libby, perhaps as soon as six months from now, because signals of Libby’s impending pardon will raise little concern or controversy in Washington or among name pundits.”
Hugh says
June 19th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
BTW how difficult is it to get a hold of ether? It’s flammable but it is one of the original anesthetics.
This whole story sort of makes you glad that Ecstasy wasn’t around when Bill Frist was in college.
———————————————————-
Back then, probably not so hard. Now it’s a little tougher. I’ve never seen it used in hospitals. Chem labs would be able to get it with very little trouble, as it’s a common organic solvent. It’s usually avoided if possible, though, since it has an annoying habit of exploding.
That seals it!
My cat is definately not voting for Frist. And the dog isn’t too happy about this, either, even though she hardly ever agrees with the cat.
kirk 142
I’m a pastor who hears a lot from parishioners about their medical professionals – and in some cases, I probably hear more about them than they do themselves. Based on that, I suspect that your passion for your patients came through loud and clear to them, even (or especially) the meth/tobacco/et al folks.
Susan in Iowa says
June 19th, 2006 at 10:57 pm
OT From Josh Marshall, Joe DiGenova is floating trial balloons about letting Scooter off the hook. “Make no mistake, this is a trial balloon, an effort to test the waters and prepare the public for Libby’s eventual pardon. And you should expect that the president will pardon Libby, perhaps as soon as six months from now, because signals of Libby’s impending pardon will raise little concern or controversy in Washington or among name pundits.”
———————————————————-
I’m still not buying this line. A Libby pardon would be extremely risky at this point, for reasons I’ve already discussed. If they lose either house of Congress, you can bet there will be hearings, and a Libby pardon means that Libby won’t be able to take the 5th and will have to testify. Clearly, their gameplan is to just get through the midterms, but I honestly don’t think they’ve got a gameplan for after that. Don’t worry about a Libby pardon. Like I’ve said before, we’re nowhere near the endgame yet.
Hugh 112 — In the immortal words of the Governator, “No problemo.” Martinez is a truly evil man, as anyone who suffered through his slimy campaign can verify. Unfortunately, we’re stuck with him for a while. It’s not easy being purple.
ofg -
thanks for the nice call on the letters…and the laugh on Yogi…
and peterr -
glad i could be of help.
(just to clarify, I’m not a surgeon myself, but for over years I served as the psych consultant for a whole bunch of teams with low standards for shrinks: dental pain, trauma surgery, renal/pancreatic transplant, bone marrow/stem cell transplant, and others. I know and saw lots of good surgeons who save lives….
but the ambitious Frist-oid wannabees make me wanna hurl)
Hi, BarbaraB!
TRex: Great topic for a lively Late Nite.
Good Nite, all.
dana 123 -
from your keyboard to Bast’s ears…
Neurophius-
TRex: Great topic for a lively Late Nite.
Mon plaisir, bebe. Thank you for coming.
TRex – another job deserving of gold stars.
Dr. Kirk – everyone should have a chance to have a doc like you! Thanks for sharing comments.
G’night for me too – the East Coasters will be piling on soon . . .
. . . and thanks, TRex, for bringing the local TN editorial onto a bigger stage!
The Chat of I (coulda) Ran
cat got your tongue, Bill?
TRex- is it okay to say that you are the cat’s meow?
G’night, neurophius. I hope the weather in Kansas is better than it is here in Florida. It’s like living in a swamp. Well, actually, it’s not “like” a swamp, it is a swamp. Anyway, sleep well.
The Chat-a-coulda-woulda-choo-choo train wreck.
Barbara B, I meant to thank you earlier for using the word “bagatelle”. Mm!!
Whereabouts in FL are you?
Valley Girl:
TRex is sitting in the catbird seat!
Now, goodnight, for real.
the whole kitten caboodle
TRex- is it okay to say that you are the cat’s meow?
Pretty soon, I’m going to be the cat’s pajamas. Almost time for bed.
sigh -
proofreading:
unless he violated the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs regs in place at the time and compounded his other felonies by procuring narcotics he could have been licensed to possess or use.
should have read:
narcotics he could have NOT have been licensed to possess or use.
(the omitted “not” should have been lower case, but…)
rats.
off to bed, fire puppies.
hope y’all are well and jane’s mom recovers quickly…and that all or our loved ones enjoy good health and we enjoy them as long as we may….
I’m folding, too. ‘night, all.
Mary, I’m going to bed totally embarassed… :)
Thanks for your kind assessment and sharing your incisive mind and keen words here on fdl….
Kirk- don’t worry about the typo. The meaning was clear.
narcotics he could have NOT have been licensed to possess or use.
I turned that into:
narcotics he could have have been unlicensed to possess or use.
Hope that’s okay.
Dr. M, you’ve got mail.
You’re welcome, TRex. I live in Tallahassee. It’s a lot like Athens, a university town, only because it’s also the capital, the other industry is state government. We like to think of it as Madison with mildew. I suppose I should now say “Go ‘Noles,” but since I am paralyzingly bored by even the thought of college athletics, I won’t. :>)
Past bedtime for me too. G’night, all.
I have played shows in Tallahassee, back in the 90’s at a place called Finales and then at something maybe called the Cow Palace(?). I have a very good friend who lives there as well.
Oh, lord, I remember when we dropped acid in Tallahassee and then high-tailed it to Tampa for a gig during Guavaween. Egad, the brain cells I threw away like confetti in my twenties. It’s amazing I can think at all. Thank god that’s over. I don’t think you could give me $100,000 to take a hit of acid now.
TRex- my take FWIW is that unless Frist had some kind of special research involvement, “narcotics he could have have been unlicensed to possess or use” — he was unlicensed and therefore would not have had legal access to narcotics. But, that said, perhaps you are correct, in that drugs for research are strictly controlled now (special license, kept in lab safe) now, but might not have been prior to the late 80s. FWIW. xxoo Sorry, minor point.
Hi TRex -
I defer to your sense of prose and stylistic considerations, ’cause my prose can be rather clunky. Your prose clearly don’t clunk!
I’m certain the final statement could be tightened up to eliminate any question of “could”. Even in the 70’s/80’s, the BNDD wasn’t handing out licenses to possess controlled substances to med students. If Billy had the drugs outside of the med school grounds – or used them (without autorization to possess them) in pet vivisection on med school grounds, he still violated the BNDD regs. Violations for narcotics possession were criminal acts.
None of this gets him a pass on the cruelty to animals charges.
Felony drug crimes and animal torture – don’t you love the smell of the Republican leadership in the morning?
Kirk- I think you just answered my question immediately above about could vs. would. I thought it was “would”, but wasn’t sure.
I went with “would”.
Thank you again, Kirk, for your contributions tonight.
And, TRex, thank you for your article, one of your many great contributions.
Hi TRex and ValleyGirl -
Thanks for your kind assessments – but they may have been undeserved.
I’ve been referring to BNDD (Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs) rather than DEA, as I thought Fristie was in med school before the DEA.
I was wrong – DEA sprang out of BNDD in ‘73 (not ‘78, as I had mistakenly remembered).
My checks tonight with practicing docs and available reg texts tell me that the DEA’s conception date does not affect the simple fact that neither the BNDD nor the DEA afforded licenses to medical students of Frist’s generation to possess or use narcotics (including opiate pain killers).
Re: Neurophius 115:
It runs in the family – his three sons are ripe age for military service, but none of them are serving….
…This, from a man who is supporting the war. Sending others sons to fight in place of his own.
This whole cat thing is just a jigsaw piece in the puzzle of Frist’s lunacy. To be honest, this is a lot less offensive than the fact that he had misinformed people that AIDS could be spread through sweat and tears.
Oh, pshaw, VG. I just get a kick out getting to be read by so many people. I’m so glad the Ladies of the Lake have seen fit to include me.
Good night, everybody.
Republican voters “get it.” They get it all wrong, but they do “get it.” What they get, is that character, vision, leadership ability, eloquence, integrity, wit, experience and honor do not count on the road to acquisition of power. Whatever candidate is offered up to Rovisize is not converted away from whatever perversities he waded through on his way up the political ladder, but the conversion makes him impenetrable to circumspection, reflection, morality and conscience. He comes away a new man or woman impervious to the yearnings of their followers, but capable of serving up an image that a saint would worship. Of course, they are not being real, (who would expect them to,) but they tell their followers what reality is and after it is repeated often enough by the anti-American propagandists of the mainstream media, it isn’t long before they have them swearing that god speaks to them, GWB is a great man, and Dick Cheney is not his boss.
Um…hello?
It’s five in the morning here and I can’t sleep!
tommy yum,
so wake up.
I’m awake, Mr. Teller.
only 1:05 am here, and light out enough to type this outdoors without any external light source. It is strange watching people drop off the board on blogs just as I get home from work or free from chores.
I’m not sharing this thread with either of my cats, though. They come out about now, hoping for a slow bird.
It’s pre-dawn here. Just went out for a ciggie and the eastern sky has a slight glow.
It’s funny–this is one of my favorite times of day, and I’m never usually up for it. I’m way past pulling all-nighters, so this is a rarity. I’m enjoying it.
Wonder if I should put some coffee on.
It’s nice to have some company.
tommy yum,
an all-nighter, eh? When I do those, yerba mate works better in the 2nd morning than coffee. Or green tea.
Hi, guys. 5:17am ET here. Didn’t mean to be up all night, but I just couldn’t sleep. Basically, very upset about the tone of *some* comments and commenters of late at FDL. I moderate comments, sometimes, to help out, but people’s generally demanding tone is getting me down. I will probably delete my own comment after you’ve read. I am just feeling down.
I was asleep, but the boy woke up around four and I couldn’t get back. The kids are young, and we’re having a small clutch of maladies: pink eye, sore throats, mild ear infections. Makes for punctuated sleeping.
The wife, god bless her, usually takes up the midnight slack.
This is cool. The sky is indigo.
Hey, my favorite Valley girl…..
Cheer up! I’m about to attempt some substance here before I call it a day.
Hey, VG–good morning!
What’s bumming you out? I skimmed this thread and didn’t see any flaming. Did I miss something?
Hey ET, nice to hear from you. Again, I will probably delete my own comment after y’ll have read. FDL is great in having Christy and Jane, but sometimes certain *other* does get me down with condescending tone. Code.
tommy- no, this was a great thread. TRex is the best. Sunday was not so great.
p.s. probably not obvious, because a lot of comments were deleted. But, one person posted a link to JP that slammed Jane. And then, included that JP slammed FDL. And, then said, Jane and RH and VG. I don’t want that kind of fame. Nice person (regular commenter) who was outraged by JP attack on Jane, and wanted to go to battle. Fanning the fire, I thought. And, I could have done without the info that I was named.
Jane’s a big girl. I understand she’s going through a rough patch, but she can take it–she’s tough. I caught a bit of that kerfluffle.
This blog has grown very quickly and has attracted a lot of attention. Not all of it will be positive. Part of the process, to be sure, but I can appreciate how exhausting it can be in the trenches.
Seems to me, a propos of nothing, that, online, “community” is similar to “conversation” in the comment section. It’s never quite real. This isn’t to diminish the many great ideas the generosity of spirit I see here, but it’s without a real world investment. Nuance is not really an option, and emotions usually run high in these sad times.
What disappointed me recently was the major snark attack against Wonkette, about whom I have no particular feeling. It just seemed to veer into catty, ad hominem high school stuff. Glad that’s passed.
Tommy- and again, I probably will delete my own comment in the end– hope that’s okay with you? If so, I will respond to the Wonkette thing.
If that’s what you want to do, that’s okay with me. It’ll just look like I’m having a conversation with myself!
Bill Frist pulled a stunt about as close to a conflict of interest as a cynic might allow. The Medicare bill made the taxpayer pick up the tab for hospital and doctor’s malpractice insurance, and was the main reason that the bill was so expensive. Then they switched the discussion from, “Who benefits from this piece of legislation?” to “Look how much cash we put into Medicare. The largest increase of any administration since Medicare was first introduced.”
The price tag for Medicare was a gift to major insurers. This would have been just another act of bribery, (remember this was not a huge favor for the insurers – three-hundred to five hundred billion dollars tops.) The only polite favor expected in return was for the insurers to play ball with the current administration. except that Frist was in the strange position of being able to bribe himself. No witnesses.
Tommy- funny! okay, maybe I can just do some selective editing so it doesn’t look like you are talking to yourself.
I have great admiration for Jane. I’ve been here quite a while. She has posted a lot of articles that call people out for their bad behavior. Both xx and xy. And, inevitably there are comments like “this is so unfair”. (BTW, I realize that that is not your tone.) But, always in the past, it has become perfectly clear after time that Jane’s instincts are absolutely correct. And commenters say so. I think she wanted to try to take Wonkette down before she really gets going as a Time person a la Klein. That’s my brief take.
I can dig it, and share your admiration of Jane.
That’s why the Wonkette thing seemed a little out of the blue. I mean, it’s not like Wonkette has anything on anybody–she’s another grain of hack on shill beach. It was a takedown, but too personal and too mean. Having said that, if I had a blog it would just be the words “fucktard” and “asshat” over and over and over. Okay, maybe “cobag” and “shitheel” too. You get the point.
It’s hard to know what to do with anger. I know it is for me. I take a weekly mag called The Week. It’s a pretty good way to catch up on stuff, although the blogs do it better. Their take on YK stunned me. Honestly, it was the bullshit “fringe movement fever swamp” crap.
It’s a small path we tread on. It is up to us not to deviate from it; to be brave and speak the truth, to call bullshit and smackdown when necessary. We must always differentiate ourselves from the Mighty Wurlitzer and Echo Chamber, whose stock in trade is personal attack and calumny.
The “bridge to nowhere” meme irks me. The complaint started reasonably enough in the aftermath of Katrina, when, briefly, the media seemed to regain a teeny bit of conscience. Our Alaska legislators are deservedly famous for earmark pork. The $.5 billion Don Young and Ted Stevens had hoped to earmark for a bridge between Anchorage and the eastern Susitna Delta and between Ketchikan and Gravina Island were colorfully described as “bridges to nowhere.”
In Alaska we have a highway system which doesn’t get as far as two digit numbering. In Alaska, any new road project has the possibility of turning a “nowhere” into a “somewhere.” More on that later, if anybody here is interested.
There is less highway mileage in existence here than is newly created every nine months in, let’s say – Illinois.
I’m not advocating either the Knik Arm or Gravina Island bridge proposals as they exist. But I’m VERY pissed that the national media has glomped onto the “bridge to nowhere” meme, but has neglected many billions of bucks on less worthy projects in the lower 48.
That brings me back to Illinois. Rep. Hastert has once again been caught in an unseemly situation. This time it looks like he is building a “highway to somewhere.” Namely, a half section of land he owns, which will bolt up in value in a percentage rate which would put Dick Cheney’s Halliburton portfolio to shame.
Meanwhile, another Illinois Republican representative, has tried to make political hay out of the “bridge to nowhere” meme. Mark Kirk has introduced a provision to the annual highway appropriation bill which would bar any Federal funds from being spent on the two Alaska bridges.
I’d like to suggest we get progressive blogs to corner Kirk on his support of Hastert’s highway money before he again brings Alaska into the picture. After all, he’s in and out of suburban Chicago all the time, but – to my knowledge has never been here.
I guess I have to issue conflict disclaimers here. I’m VP of this group:
http://www.foms.net/index.html
and – among other development activities in one of my earlier incarnations, I administered and designed this:
http://www.ci.whittier.ak.us/harbor.html
Hey, it’s starting to read like the good ole days! (how many months ago was that?).
Back on topic – the money quote for me from the editorial, though, is this-
“Frist recently commented about the power he felt when holding the last beats of a dog’s heart in his hand.”
I have had the unfortunate experience of watching satanists in action and this quote together with the “keeping them as pets” thing tells me a lot about Dr. Frist. This guy is definately from the dark side.
And I second Trex’s sentiment (with a lot of feeling) -
” It’s what I hope is the first thing Frist sees when he wakes up in Hell. A giant cat (or two!) come to torment and slowly dismember him.
FOREVER!!! “
I guess what I was looking at were two things: Wonkette’s behaviour at ykos (which seemed a bit outlandish, even factoring out hyperbole), and, more importantly that she now has a gig at Time (have I got that right?) where she now has MSM credibility, (ref: Joe Klein), but/and, like Joe Klein, is not likely to speak to the truth of the issues we are really facing as a nation. Again, I think Jane wanted to do her best to cut Wonkette off at the pass.
Interesting stuff, ET. We have had our own growth battles here in Chatham County, NC.
The “bridge to nowhere” meme is serviceable, if not accurate. It managed to rise above a sea of other outrages and rip-offs to become emblamatic.
It’s extraordinary to me that what has been happening in the Marianas islands hasn’t caught fire. I mean, if you want to contemplate the repugnant face of the GOP and their corporatist enablers, then look no further.
It’s almost as if the nation can’t look at itself in the mirror, because it’s too fucking scary now.
Alas, Valley Girl, the bigger the idiot the louder the bullhorn. I would only offer the Ben Domenech flash in the pan as a truly effective takedown. I mean, since our side is generally unwilling to, say, forge documents and catch journalists in a Rovian sting operation. I’m just sayin’.
Coulter is a bitch, and needs to go away. This is better accomplished by making a lot of noise about her voter fraud and plagiarism, as opposed to snark about her being a man or whatever.
All that aside, this site is as good as it is because of people like you as well as the big dogs.
Tommy, thanks. Unlike you, I am not up early, but terribly late to crash. So, I am going to sign off, without giving you a thoughtful reply to your last comment. Hope you understand!
tommy yum sez:
“It’s almost as if the nation can’t look at itself in the mirror, because it’s too fucking scary now.”
Y’know, Tommy, whenever I get my head out of my ass, I’ve felt that way since I was in the army in the late 60s.
Of course! Good night. I enjoyed the conversation.
Nite (good morning?) to you too.
Over the weekend I posted here a letter to the editor I had sent to the Anchorage Daily News about an article on Ann Coulter’s new book which they had printed below the fold on page A1 a week ago.
They called today to confirm my identity and disputed my use of the word “slut” in my description of Coulter. I argued, cited the word’s history, looked at online synonyms for slut while on the phone. They didn’t back down. I proposed “slattern,” “floozie” – other words I now forget.
Frist’s explanation is preposterous. Researchers don’t get animals out of shelters for experimentation–they buy the animals from animal supply services that are specially bred for the purpose. Animals from shelters have too wide variability to be useful in experimentation. The animals from animal supply services are specially bred to have a narrow range of variability.
Diane Benson for US House – Let’s build a bridge to “Somewhere.”
Check her out Christy and Pach.
Praying for your mom, Jane.
g’night…….
Breaking News 6:53 AM ET: Two missing U.S. soldiers in Iraq have been killed and their bodies found, according to Iraq’s defense ministry spokesman.
R.I.P.
Two Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Dead in Iraq
By Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, June 20, 2006; 6:40 AM
BAGHDAD, July 20–The two U.S. soldiers missing since an attack on a checkpoint last week were found dead near a power plant in Yusifiyah, south of Baghdad, according to an Iraqi defense official.
General Abdul Aziz Muhammed, head of operations at Iraqi Ministry of Defense said in a news conference in Baghdad this afternoon that the soldiers had been “barbarically” killed and that there were traces of torture on their bodies.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00242.html
shd be clear med stdnts don’t do science experiments- this was just pure pleasure for a sicko
Beautiful, warm morning in Boston!
Great post TRex! Cat KIller? He’s doomed!!
Here is a little interesting story I was told about the powerful repulsion people feel about Cat killers. I was fortunate to have dinner with Lee Boyd Malvo’s attorney, Craig Cooley, who is an amazing, smart, sensitive, gracious fellow. We were able to pursuade him to talk a bit about the trial and he spoke up first about this moment when a witness testified that when Lee was young in Jamaica, he had killed cats. Craig said the trial was percolatin’ very well up until that point — the jury was clearly starting to understand how this young boy was brainwashed and were beginning to show empathy for Lee.
But Cat killer? He said that he looked over and saw everyone in the jury box just cringe — then they stared hate daggers at Lee. CAT KILLER!? Craig said he thought that at that moment, the death penalty was a sure thing.
But luckily, people were following the trial in the public and a number of people — including a rather prominent DC area Doctor — called to explain that cats in Jamaica are feral and steal food and harrass and kill the domestic animals like chickens etc. So, killing cats in Jamaica was more like killing a rat in the US…. The Doctor testified and with that fortunate set phone calls and the ability to create a meaningful cultural context, Craig was able to damp down the fury created by the label,
“Kitty Killer!”
Re: Two Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Dead in Iraq – lotus 215, 216
CNN keeps playing a phone message from one of the soldiers calling his family back home. I wonder if the family gave it to them or did they get the tape from the NSA?
How about the letter ‘D’?
‘D’ is for dogs.
Reading _The Puzzle People: Memoirs of a Transplant Surgeon_ by Thomas Starzl, it quickly becomes clear that advances in organ transplant surgery were enabled by experiments on hundreds of dogs. At least some of those dogs were obtained by Dr. Starzl from local dog-pounds, & his wife helped him care for them.
Which is not to give out an all-caps “Dr. Starzl chopped dogs” headline over a pic of Towser, but to illustrate that copious animal experimentation is part’n’parcel of modern medical research.
Surgeons are trained to cut the meat. No doubt many of them get a bit megalo about it, that’s part of the game, too, but it doesn’t make them sociopathic. That Frist wrote and published his thoughts (over his name, unlike The Tennessean’s editorialist) about it would tend to indicate the presence of some humanity and capacity for self-analysis.
No doubt there are dozens of issues on which we can diss the Dr/Sr, including medical ethics . But when TRex helps Mr. Unknown yell “kitty-killer!”, I hear ‘yellow journalism’. Ref tommy yum’s post#201, TRex has “to be brave and speak the truth, to call bullshit and smackdown when necessary” down pert’ well, but needs to work on “We must always differentiate ourselves from the Mighty Wurlitzer and Echo Chamber, whose stock in trade is personal attack and calumny.”
schwa,
I disagree — many voters who do not follow the issues as closely as the readers/posters here will be puposefully misled about Frist’s positions. He is duplicitous and has a very poor feeling for real working people who make less than 500,000 a year (Reagan reference). Surgeons as a group are stereoptyped as cold and unfeeling to begin with. Sure they save lives, but the do it like car mechanics save an engine. Until recently, most patients never had more than a half hour interaction with a surgeon before or after surgery. I talk to my mechanic more than that. So, the image/idea of Kitty killer, considering the details has two advantages:
1) It’s true and 2) Frist is the one who gave us this particular potent summary image/nickname.
If you have read Daou, you understand how important it is to discover accurate summary images.
Re (again): Two Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Dead in Iraq – lotus 215, 216
The Rude Pundit poses an interesting ‘what if’ question. What if the captured soldiers had been tortured and photographed like the prisoners of Abu Graib? What could our government say? What could they do without sounding hypocritical?
And what about the good right-wing punditry? Would Rush Limbaugh look at the photos of the nude, cowering Americans and say it looks like fraternity hazing or some such shit? Would others dismiss it as a media fabrication? Or would they just pathetically overlook everything done in our American names to Iraqis, Afghanis, and others, calling madly for the heads of the captors, not even thinking about the irony of such a statement?
It goes without saying, but, considering the times, perhaps it needs to be said: the Rude Pundit wishes none of this on Privates Thomas Tucker and Kristian Menchaca. He hopes they are found or released safe and sound. But he also wishes none of this on our prisoners, whether in Iraq, at Gitmo, or in secret prisons or countries of rendition where fuck-all can happen with no law, no regulation, no hope to bespeak our putative humanity.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com…..s-and.html
Frist is the creepiest guy I ever heard of, not incarcerated. Takes his dead baby home to meet the family.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..Apr17.html
Chimpy yesterday:
Before we’ve completed the mission?? I thought the ‘mission’ had already been ‘accomplished’.
Chimpster also said he welcomed the debate today BUT vowed that there would be “no early withdrawal” from Iraq “so long as we run the Congress and occupy the White House.“
Why even have the debate? Just begin the impeachment process.
I just hope and pray that young Dr. Frist was not also noted for his home-cooked Chinese cuisine…
it was Rick Santorum that took home his dead baby for the other kids to meet and greet …
Frist, Santorum, what’s the difference? ;)
From the Frothy thread(after I got done being alternately grossed out and then giggling)…
What IS it with these guys and the barely concealed homoerotic stuff?
The codpiece and all the swooning from men over it.I appreciate an attractive man,but in this case,I was embarassed(briefly)for W.Now I’m just embarassed BY him.Whadda Schmuck.
The torture,placing naked men in piles,the sexual humiliation.
Seersucker Thursday?WTF?I had a seersucker dress for Easter,when I was 3.It was pink and pale yellow.I think it had a little bonnet that matched.
Josh Bolton with photos of nothing but W’s hands?(ok,not homoerotic I guess,but still,does he want W’s hands on him?Or is he just weird?)
A gay male escort is given access to the White House,close to 200 times,under the thin veil of being a”journalist”.
And that’s just the short list.
I just read Sam Seder’s FUBAR,and I think Sam’s right when he asks…Are homophobes definitely gay?Yes.They are.
Which brings me to wonder if some serious sexual repression has alot to do with how mean today’s conservatives are.It sure explains how easy it is for them to lie and not bat an eyelash.When you have to squash down who you are and lie about it,aka a “double life”,I guess the rest of the lies you tell are small in comparison.
I honestly wish they’d have their own cocksucker thursday,come out,and be done with it.Imagine the relief of not having to lie like that anymore.The country would be much better off in the long run.
As for Frist,is it just me or is his skin becoming more translucent?He’s got this LeStat thing happening,it’s rather creepy.Admitting to killing those kitties in such a fashion,with cold calculation,well,if that was a younger person,a kid,it would signal a need for some serious mental health intervention.Many violent criminals start off hurting animals(see also,Bush and Frogs)when they’re young.I think it’s one of the signs psychiatrists look for in seriously at risk children(along with setting fires,self-mutilation,pathological lying,etc)to diagnose psychopathic and sociopathic behavioral disorders.
It seems like alot of people in power in this country have unresolved childhood issues they want ALL of us to pay for now.
dude, I like Theresa Heinz Kerry even more after reading this in the santorum piece (which was a lil too creepy for pre-coffee dawn):
“Former Democratic senator Bob Kerrey once wondered whether Santorum is “Latin for [anus].” Teresa Heinz Kerry called him “Forrest Gump with an attitude.”
awsh*t, my bad. I thought for sure it was frist. I suppose those two are now tied in creepiness for me.
“Cocksucker Thursday.” Brilliant. I mean, what a band name!
hi immanentize,
I share your distaste for Sr. Frist & hope he is retired soon!
But from TRex’s post & the headline & editorial he quoted, a number of commenters reached the conclusion that he was a vivisector who cut up un-anesthetized animals, grossly disregarded medical ethics, and/or violated narcotics laws. To me, their posts were amazingly unfair non-sequiturs unsupported by the facts & quotes in TRex’s post. Yet TRex guided them to those conclusions by means of headlines & pic, and by updating his piece w/ KJM,MD’s baseless accusations.
I expected more discernment from FDL commenters. Has Peter Daou done any writing wrt the ethics of creating or reinforcing inaccurate summary images?
http://home.comcast.net/~klevenstein/gilligan.jpg
“I’d like to have a few words with Dr. Frist about my friends that he ‘adopted’…”
Thank god for politics! Otherwise guys like Bill Frist could be hanging out in the park dissecting your children.
Got Cats?
The creepiest thing about the Santorum story of bringing home the dead body of his stillborn son to meet the family is not the act itself. It may be on the macabre side, but still it was the family’s choice to do that and it is their business.
No, the creepiest thing about the story is his willingness to talk about and have it splashed all over the news in an effor to shore up his crumbling political standing, to show his conservative base his own “dedication to family values.”
What he has in fact done is to exploit his dead son for political gain. As a politician this shows him to be the lowest of the low.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..Apr17.html
The scary thing about this is that it’s the kind of sociopathic behavior that one reads about in serial killer biographies. No wonder he has no problem with the Administration’s torture policies–he’s probably hankering for a job.
Getting close to EPU territory here, but, what the heck…
Bill Frist scares the crap out of me, both as a man and as a surgeon; that he has taken his image of himself as more god-like than your average surgeon into the Senate, where he can have even wider influence, is even scarier.
The Senate, however, had exposed his all-too-human flaws, and revealed to all some personality traits that most people suspect were part and parcel of his life as a surgeon. In a word: Eww.
He’s a terrible Senator, with terrible political instincts – due no doubt to his delusions about his own fallibility and belief that being a surgeon gives him a level of power that others can never attain.
We should be grateful, in a way, that he rose to the level of majority leader, as it put him on a stage, with spotlights glaring, and has made it impossible for him to run for president as a sort of stealth candidate. We know all we need to know about Frist to know that he would be an even worse president than he is a Senator.
What we have to be worried about is his return to his surgical practice after the humiliation of a failed presidential bid; God knows what horrors he might be tempted to perpetrate in the name of medical science as a way to prove to himself that he is, in fact, as powerful and as god-like as he believes himself to be.
That’s the really scary part, for me.
schwa, Daou and others certainly have addressed the concept — for example in all the swiftboating analysis. To me, the people here were riffing off a truth revealed by the individual. In the swiftboating case, facts were just made ab initio to create/reinforce an image.
Did people get carried away? Perhaps. But I rather think the question of narcotics/vivisection is one that is not clearly addressed by the good doctor and probably deserves some question or two. Perhaops he had a license for narcotics and saved his pets all sorts of pain (OK, less gruesome) — perhaps he was actually splaying cats alive (ooo, really bad). Although some might have jumped to conclusions — they are reasonable questions to ask. No?
Right you are, Anne. If I or anyone I care about needed cardiothoracic surgery, the very last practitioner I’d want to see strolling in is that ghoul!
The Tell Tale Heart will get Frist one dark night….
new thread — old requiem
Isn’t vivisection a really big sign of being a sociopath? Isn’t this kind of behavior common in children who develop into serial killers? This is scary. Not only did he do it, he admitted it and he seems proud of it. Sick and frightening that a person like that could think to make decisions for any human being. (Shuddering)
Hugh LOL Kafka’s Frist draft!
How about: “Cats dog Frist”
Can’t resist a good blogwhoring opportunity.
I had some fun with Frist’s Gorilla Porn a month or so ago.
Frist probably has his favourite operating theatre…like the one in ‘Coma’.
My reading of the sex side of this corporate fascist ideology comes down from W. Reich and ‘ The mass psychology of fascism’. Basically all boils down to repressed sexuality. An interesting recent article on this was by J. Hari. Search on http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.
php?id=407
The strange, unexplored overlap between homosexuality and fascism
Many of the leading European fascists of the past thirty years have been gay. Progressive gay people like me shouldn’t ignore this …etc
Given how many cats are euthanized each year, I think some enterprising soul ought to dump them regularly in front of Frist’s Senate door. I suppose you might have to embalm them to keep the dead felines from being a health hazard.
I am sure when he runs for Prez the secret service will have their unconsitutional free speech quarantines so just leave the cats at the host’s house after he leaves. A reminder of the destruction he wreaks.
Where ever Fristy goes, people should play LOUD, (Noriega annoyance style) “The Cat Came Back.”
As a life-long member cat lover and member of the humane society, I am so repulsed by Frist I can barely contemplate the rest of him.
*ilson46201 (225). I’ll forgive the Chinese cuisine part, if you allow me to make reference to some gruesome serial killers pate that Frist might have served to guests. (It seems the latest in Korean or HongKong movies is to have serial killers making “dumplings” that’s served to the unwitting.)
When I heard about the cat stories of his medical school days (where his peers used him for his private plane, I was told by one), I knew – another of those dead-behind-the-eyes types, all drive and no purpose beyond aggrandinzing themselves in one way or another.
Uh…I believe what we call these “dead behind the eyes” people are sociopaths. They are the ghouls that start on poor innocent creatures like cats and dogs, then, unless diverted by some means, go on to conduct the same sorts of dead-behind-the-eyes activities on the stray human. No affect, no empathy, all cold machine about nothing but itself. Frist. Sociopath.
Seriously, how could the Washington Post run a huge piece about Frist’s kindness to animals without discussing or even mentioning this history? The thesis of the article was “Bill Frist loves animals and uses his surgical skill to save them.” The Post knew well knew of this compelling evidence to the contrary of its thesis. It also knew that many of its readers were unaware. Laura Blumenfeld is a nice person but this article was just plain deceptive.
Frist’s take on the classic “Hang in there, baby” cat poster.
I’ve got 2 cats at home. This pic is so great. I just want to reach through the monitor and scritch those ears. :)
Someone should start digging up Frist’s yard…there may be some bodies back there.
trex-You are hereby nominated for the “Fickle Finger of Fate” award for this post.
Please, please, repugs, put this man at the top of the ticket in ‘08!
Not that this ghoul had any real chance of becoming president, but kat killer is not a real strong item to have on your c.v.
Granted, 7-11 robber or child molester would be worse, but, hey we’re only talking a degree or two.
Senator Kat Killer should just go back to working for Daddy’s company. Born on third base, but thinks he hit a triple. Kind of like Bush.