C-Span1 has continuing coverage this morning on the Iraq War debate in the House of Representatives. The GOP has deployed it’s young, elected expendables to spew forth the "cut and run" crap. Haven’t seen Mean Jean in her red, white and blue spandex as yet, but hope springs eternal, I suppose.
Jack Murtha is, at the moment, kicking ass and taking names. (And that link is to a short interview in Rolling Stone that is well worth a read.) Murtha just let a young man from Texas have it for saying that "we" are doing the fighting — Murtha just reamed him out because the soldiers in the heat and the dust and facing IEDs and sniper fire and who the hells knows what else are the ones doing the fighting, not the pampered folks in the House.
Using this resolution to divide the nation on this issue — when our soldiers fighting over there deserve truth and honor and elected officials who will look this problem in the eye and honestly assess things. If you get a chance, watch a bit of the debate. And feel the hand of Karl Rove, manipulating the public by having his surrogates say things like "liberals are unpatriotic" or "Democrats don’t support the troops." That’s bullshit. And it is time that everyone stood up and said so.
The vote is coming up shortly. I’ll let everyone know what happens when I know.
UPDATE: Vote is over. It was 256 for, 153 against, 5 present. (That’s my quick typing as Denny Hastert was reading the vote tally off…not official. When I get something official on it, I’ll post some links.)
UPDATE #2: Here’s the first decent update I’ve found on the vote. It’s from Reuters (via the WaPo). No names on the votes yay or nay as yet…
UPDATE #3: Huge thanks to reader Mui who found the official listing on the House vote. Read it and weep, kids.
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fitz
Murtha!
tird!
sally fourth!
and fred frith!
“Democrats don’t support the troops.”
Everytime one of these maggots makes that comment, the response should simply be…
“That all depends on what your definition of ’support’ means”.
Is exploiting a war for political gain representative of supporting the troops?
Leisure Guy!
OT-
A woman in Texas is fighting for the life of her baby- under a law signed by Boosh, the hospital has the right to withdraw life support against the wishes of the mother, unless the family can find another facility.
What’s good for Terry Shiavo get’s trown out the window in the name of Repugnant Hypocrisy.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ort_battle
Yeeech, that skeevy Blunt. Hate to say it, but he and ASSCROFT are from my home town.
And the idiots in the Pentagon can’t run the bases here in the US.
Houston Chronicle via http://www.first-draft.com/
SAN ANTONIO — Fort Sam Houston has received 1,300 utility service termination notices for delinquent bill payments, which officials blamed on a major budget shortfall.
CPS Energy warned commanders at the post to pay $4.2 million by Wednesday or risk losing power. The post is three months behind on its bills, but both Army and utility officials said the two parties were talking and no cutoff was imminent.
——————
What happened to the Repuke talking point from the 90’s about government being run more like a business? Businesses pay their bills, you asswipes.
TheOtherWa — I’m using that. Thanks for the heads up.
Murtha!
End the damn war!
Right now, man.
You’re welcome. :)
Murtha up for 7 min
“Successful” gooper businesses, though, run their operations on other people’s money, so maybe that’s what they meant….
Christy – I had this streaming from c-span yesterday, and I am convinced it was what put me in such a bad mood. Aside from the colossal waste of the few days these guys are in session, it was just grandstanding at it’s worst.
What I heard from the GOP was mostly platitudes and slogans, wholly useless to any debate. The Dems seemed to have more substance in their remarks, but so what?
My hope is that the Iraqis are going to make fool sout of the GOP anyway, by demanding a timetable for withdrawal. Will be very interested to see how this administration responds to the will of an allegedly sovereign government that wants us out of Dodge.
Murtha sez we’re paying re-enlistment bonuses of $150,000. wtf?
Murtha : ” If we stay, we’re going to pay”
TeddySanFran at 17 — my understanding is that the mid-level officer corps is being devastated by this, and that they are offering enormous enlistment bonuses to keep them in. We are breaking the Marines and the Army, and the reserves and the national guard units may already be broken. The fact that the GOP isn’t worried about that at all, but is more worried with doing CYA PR bullshit for the Shrub is beyond insulting to our men and women in uniform. Welcome to the Republican era…
Murtha.’ A failed policy wrapped in illusion’…..
Since this was never intended to be a real debate but rather a political ploy to put Dems in a box — either you support Bush or you are against the troops and for terrorism– there is no way to vote for or against this piece of bull resolution.
Every Dem, and I mean every one, should vote “present.”
Fuck me, Boner still trying to blame Clinton.
There’s a photo on another site which shows all the participants in Seersucker Day. I thought it was the Gang of Fourteen at first. Frist organized the whole thing, and Feinstein got the ladies involved. I e-mailed them that I was glad to see them doing the important business of the country as usual.
Deputy Dawg- says opponents of war insist on conceding defeat.
No, what we insist on is stopping the madness.
yea for Barney Frank–yesterday he addressed the Iraqi legislators from the floor of the House (if I read the report correctly) and advised them: Don’t do this at home. This debate is not a model/object lesson for how to do democracy.
B’ner: “Op Iraqi Freedom was hardly a war of choice.”
Utter bullshit.
Can somebody tell me why Dems in the House wouldn’t all vote “Present” on this one?
I mean it’s a trap to get Dems on record voting against “our brave troops”, so why don’t they neatly sidestep that trap?
Someone needs to ask about the operational capacity of army special forces. They are depleted.
Yeah – when all else fails, blame Clinton.
It’s despicable to have so many representatives working this hard to prop up Bush’s ego, instead of doing what is best for the country.
Murtha
has really taken the point on this one. He ust be having effect because they are really starting to slime him about connections to big oil and stuff.
Jack, when they try to rip you apart, you know they are scared
OT
Atrios has a ton of stuff up about the fact that Lieberman is trying to use Rove’s strategy of taking your own worst trait and smearing the other candidate with it, facts be damned. In this case, Lieberman is making the astonishing claim that Lamont is basically a Republican who doesn’t share Democratic values. Truly amazing.
In many cases, the whole back and forth that ensues becomes a he-said, she-said that voters tune out, thus mitigating the original shortcoming of the candidate who started the smear campaign.
In the case of Joe Lieberman, however, the response is quite simple.
Here’s the question that Lieberman needs to get hammered with today:
“If you are truly a Democrat, why don’t you promise to support the Democratic senatorial nominee for the state of Connecticut, as Ned Lamont has done?”
I just wonder what these Bushco hangers-on hope to gain by it . . .
Morris Shepherd @ 21
Oops, sorry. I didn’t see your post before I posted more or less the same thing.
So, will any of them vote “Present”?
Voting has begun.
Already 5 TRAITORS have voted yes on the Dem side…I think if MOST Dems vote no they can use it at press conferences to show unity against a SHAM resolution…whoever those 5 are plus whoever else, there should be major emails and calls to their offices today.
Now it is 7 TRAITORS
Who are those 8 f**king Democrats?
PRESENT
To end all this crap about DEMS being unpatriotic all Reid, Pelosi, Murtha, and Kerry have to do is publish the list of who served in the military and who didnt
here is this list:
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
it is striking the number of draft dodging Rethugs on this list who are hypocrites for denegrating the services and patriotism of the MAx Cleelands, Murthas, and Kerry’s of the world…..
http://pdamerica.org/articles/…..dcount.php
Go there and sign the petition to demand a manual hand recount. Poll workers were allowed to take home the Diebold machines The margin of victory was less than five percent, with many ballots yet to be counted. By interfering with the chain of custody, the machines are legally decertified, according to the National Association of State Election Directors.
Yes, James E. Thompson, the Dems have already stated what a political move this is by the Rethugs. Why can’t they just vote PRESENT and boycott the damn thing?
Amid all this hubbub, it’s gratifying to see that the travails of Britney Spears are getting so much priority play on NBC’s “Today Show.” SO much more important.
Watching the vote right now. I agree, this was as impressive as I’ve seen Murtha, and I was already impressed with him.
Does anyone else feel this political manipulation crap orchestrated by Rove could backfire, and draw attention to reality in a way “they” really don’t want?
I am a long time blog follower, and familiar with disappointment after pinning my hopes on the ability of the public to see the obvious. But I also spend a lot of time in non-politically oriented chat rooms, and have noted a change in perceptions. Is it possible at long last, are people waking up? Anyone else seeing anything?
Hope springs eternal.
I read about that sunny @ 40 and am sorta aghast that not more has been made of it. bradblog was all over it 2 days ago, IIRC. Bilbray has already been on tweety braying about his record and blah, blah.
BobbyG at 42 — Oh, good heavens. What now? Did her bra strap show in public or something? Good grief, you’d think we weren’t fighting a war or two and dealing with a huge deficit and…oh, forget it.
It is hard to believe that we are going to walk into this trap yet again.
jarotra at 44 — I’ve noticed a perceptible shift in how people joke about the President and his Administration. Once you become the butt of jokes — and it really started after Katrina — but once you get to that point, it’s tough to make your way back. I’m wary of getting too ahead of it, but I think that with the right push, things could keep going in that direction. Here’s hoping, anyway…
Just wanted to say thanks for yesterday and today – FDL was my only way of keeping up with the Republican BS, sorry, “debate”, going on. I appreciate everyone posting the play by play.
Now I want to know who the Dem traitors are so I can email them!
My message to congress….
Dear Rethugs – I served on active duty for 11 years, how about you?
Christy 46 -
It’s on right now. Day TWO of “above the fold” coverage and interviews.
Aggghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeahhhh, Christy…
I deal with this shit all the time, on the bluegrass site where I hang out. The people there are mainly decent, no late german fascists…(well, maybe a couple…)
But a lot of them are still into wearing the denial-queen tiara, even with it now dripping blood and bullshit.
They couch their “arguments” in the same wannabe-churchillian crap about “staying the course” and “seeing it through to victory”.
Their big problem is, when they have to talk the specifics of what the “course” IS, and HOW the “victory” is going to be achieved.
They do NOT like to be asked about that.
As well as, about the fact that the bushCo “plan” for operation enduring clusterfuck, so far, has utterly sucked up the ass.
Let us ask the creators of mayhem-in-mesopotamia, if it will be “victory” IF, after we, with help from the Shia, manage to stuff the isurgency, and Iraq settles down to 2/3rds dominance by a Shia majority that is exchanging assrubs with the hardliners in Teheran?
Ask them if it will be “victory”, when the Kurds (with our lefthanded support, since they ARE our bestest allies in what is now Iraq) are steadily taking over control of those vast Kirkuk reserves, and are shopping for some really neat war-toys, to protect themselves from the Turks, as they move toward independence?
Ask them if it will be “victory” if goatboy and his coterie of petro-turds are insane enough to attack the Iranian reactors.
Ask them if CentCom wants to find out how the Iraqi Shia will react, if junior hits those reactors. Especially, ask them why, with 8,000 brit troops in the Shia-dominated south, Tony Blair is shitting green nickels every time junior rattles his saber at Teheran, and they giggle and point to Basra.
Ask them why the republicans are pissing their pants at the thought of there being enough anti-ship mines laid in the straights of Hormuz for Condi to walk across on them without getting her Gucci’s wet, and the attendant $5 a gallon pump price, as the mid-terms bear down on bushCo like the iceberg with a homing device for the Titanic.
JUST MAKE THEM TALK THE SPECIFICS.
No more slogans; no more bloody-assed five-and-dime “patriotism”; just 2500 dead americans; 100,000-plus dead Iraqis (who had jackshit to do with 9-11); $300 billions of our money (which, for some reason, the repubs couldn’t stand to spend on our public schools, nor programs for the elderly, nor to defray the bone-eating cost of health-care, nor even on NPR, since they have this vestigial instinct to OCCASIONALLY speak a faintly discouraging word about the shitmire.)
AND NO GODDAMN END IN SIGHT!
Ask them, with their “it’s gonna take another 5-10 years” where the troops are going to come from. Ask them it they’ll email the republicans up for re-election this fall, and request that they include re-instating the draft in their campaign speeches.
Ask them….arrrgghhh…
Fukkit…ask them how much longer before their brains are so twisted and rotten from defending their obscene worldview, that they’ll simply squat down, take a shit, and then turn around and eat it.
Last night CNN Pentagon reporter reported on the Situation Room that the Pentagon issued talking points to be used by those in Congress that supported the “WAR” for their rebuttles in the debate. Since when does it advise one side over another in our representative government? The samples quoted were not even statistical, they were Rovian sound bits from a propaganda machine.
I heard that MoveOn polling shows that debates about the war actually help Democrats. If I’m remembering correctly, in 65 swing districts, Dems out-poll Repugs by 8 points. When questions relating to the war are asked, Dems rise another 5 points.
DAB at 53 — the funny part of that Pentagon issuance was that it went out way wider than they had intended via e-mail and they tried to pull it back. Ooops — too late. And yeah, it was Rovian PR crapola sound bites and nothing of substance. (Apparently, a sizeable amount of the numbers were wrong as well…that should make for some serious snarking if anyone who has a copy wants to dig into it…)
Naschkatze @41 Wish I was first with PRESENT but really that vote came from Morris Sheppard @ 21 My vote came as a second to Morris
angie @ 45, Bob Koehler weighs in on the Diebold sleepover
153 for , 5 present.
Last I saw, 3 gooper nays, 43 Dem yeas.
Their nays WAY braver than our yeas!
2 gooper pres, 3 Dem ones.
BobbyG @ 42 and Christy @ 46
It’s the old “change the subject” routine so the public will concentrate on something really riveting – like Britney’s upcoming breakdown.
I was having a conversation about blogging with my daughter’s Republican social studies teacher and she said something about some celeb scandal and how she couldn’t believe I hadn’t heard about it b/c it was allll over the blogs. Heh…not the blogs I read, apparently.
I can’t hang and chat. I have to go get involved. (having lunch with my MoveOn team leader to make plans for a fundraiser)
How can we find out who the traitors are?
Christy @ 55
I have a copy (Word) if you want it.
:-)
My two cents on wingnut motivation:
The wingnut free pass to never admit (or be forced to admit; this is the press corpse’s enabler role, course) that your messianic leader, in whom you took such a power of pride and gloated so superciliously during his ephemeral ascendency, was unequivocally unconscionably unforgivably wrong — about every-fucking-thing — and that you, by extension, have also been suckered all along about the single most important issue of the day.
Now pride’s on the line. Which’re you gonna choose — your pride of the good of your country?
(Like, duh.)
Spite, delusion, denial are the trifecta of fumes running in the wingnut gas tank right now.
But the establishment press is largely silent and/or makes excuses for transparent failure. Republicans lie and make excuses. Dems remain divided on pressing the issue, so there is no unifying voice except in Left Blogostan, and we, irony of ironies, are the “looney left”.
And so the march of folly rolls on.
But spite, delusion and denial are what being a party-over-country wingnut is all about these days.
Wingnuts feel compelled to fight a bitter acrimonious prideful counterproductive PR battle of attrition over the disaster that self-evidently is Iraq right up until even they cannot deny reality any longer.
(At which point they will then, naturally, and w/no trace of irony or shame, abruptly shift focus and blame the war’s failure squarely on liberals.)
Which is why alla this is so fucking galling.
It’d be one thing if these legions of loud-mouthed bloviating pants-pissing demagogues were out in the sands of Iraq putting their ass where their mouth is.
At least then it’d only be a tragic waste.
Instead of a tragic Orwellian farcical waste.
Welcome BACK, our Huckermill!
At least some of the Dems in the House had a little courage.
A resolution should now be passed drafting the members of Congress into combat in Iraq.
Murtha for President!
VandeHei is on MSNBC right now. He’s managed to work the phrase “Democrats are divided” into conversation at least 6 times by my count already. Anyone sense some messaging going on — or is it just a story narrative for the press?
Wow. Tx.
W/my rolling thunder of multiple typoes ‘n all.
Christy,
I just sent you and Jane a little heads up email.
Brittany has a new video, complete with black panties and crotch gyrations that would do a lap dancer proud. Her self proclaimed mission is to stick it to the tabloids.
Good going, Brittany — some fine family values you’ve got on display there.
OT – but tickled my funny bone – just got this from a friend:
moi — to what addy did you send it to me? Haven’t gotten it as yet. Did you use the ReddHedd AT aol DOT com?
NYT’s latest annual op-chart on the state of Iraq is here.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll288.xml
H RES 861.
List of yeas and nays.16-Jun-2006. *sigh*
What?!! Brangelina isn’t on the front pages anymore?
No, I sent it to the FDL one.
I’ll resend it to the AOL one.
Can anyone tell me why any Democrat would do anything other than vote present? We are saying this is a stunt, and it is. But by voting against it we are adding to the idea that this is a legitimate thing for the Congress to be voting on.
Why not have the entire cacus vote present as a protest against this cynical and divisive election year ploy? Could it really be worse than voting against?
Time to see which Dems are total idiots and pantywaists.
Thanks, moi — I’m having trouble accessing the FDL one at the moment (for reasons my tech-addled brain doesn’t completely understand…).
OfT: from a WaPo online chat:
“Dana Milbank: Good morning. It’s a sad day at the Washington Post. This is the last day on the job for Tom Edsall, one of this country’s best political journalists. He’s one of 69 people who have taken a buyout at the Post, part of a cost-cutting program in the newsroom. We’re all going to miss him greatly.”
I’ve said it before, I’m gonna keep saying it
democrats HAVE to start using the kind of language that hits the republican base in their stomnach and republicans have to RUE THE DAY that even THINK of comparing a democrats patirotism theirs
we HAVE to start saying things like;
this president has NO MILITARY CLUE, he has DRAFT DODGERS that have the NERVE to overule the finest miliotary minds in the greatest milit5ary force in THE HISTORY OF PLANET EARTH
we HAVE to start htting them and hitting them HARD
like;
THERE IS NO WAY TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS SO LONG AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE MAEDE THE MOST INEPT MILITARY DECISIONS INN OUR NATIONS HISTTOTY ARE STILL MAKEING MORE OF THOSE SAME INEPT DECIONS
and then thew democrats have to BACK UP WHAT THEY SAY WITH EXAMPLES OF CHOICES MADE THAT HURT OUR FIGHT AGAINST TERRORISM, and we have to use the generals own words to show that our military is now weaker, less prepared
the democrats HAVE to call the REPUBLICANS cut and run artists, AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THE ADMINISTRATION TO TASK FOR CUTTING AND RUNNING FROM AFGHANISTAN and the fight against terrrorism which HE ABANDONED
I could go on and on, but this type of rhetoric is WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE when reoublicans use rediculous no sequetors like comparing associating the fight against terrorism with the unprovoked aggression thius president intituiated on a country HE KNEW WITH NO DOUBT POSED NO THREAT TO AMERICA
no somebody correct my spelling, add to what I have to say and send this memo out to EVERY DEMOCRAT THAT WANTS TO GET A MAJORITY in the branches of government that will bring oversite back to our government as the framers of our constitution insisted was neccessary for our republic to survie
Is Santorum wearing another “CRY FOR HELP” suit today? Someone should get that man a pillow to yell at!
Wonder how many of those WaPo early-retirees will go to blogging (and how) . . .
From the dept. of “just curious”:
Does everyone else’s post-list skip from 51 directly to 78?
(Don’t tell me even innocuous post comments are subject to extraordinary rendition?)
If I were the Dems, I think my strategy on Iraq would be the old tried-and-true “Declare victory and go home” strategy. Can anyone tell me why we’re still there? Let’s run down our list of goals:
Rid Iraq of WMDs. Check.
Capture Saddam. Check.
Get rid of his evil sons. Check.
Kill the head of al Qaeda in Iraq. Check.
Establish democracy. Check.
We’ve already declared “Mission Accomplished”. Why can’t we bring the troops home?
All Rove can do is play the same old shtick – use surrogates to scream loud that the Dems are unpatriotic and lack courage because they want to cut and run.
Instead of defending themselves saying look how bad the Repubs are – we are tough too! The Dems should be on the attack with a simple meme – Bush/Cheney and the Repubs have NO CREDIBILITY on Iraq, AQ, and national security. They lied and decieved the country into an unnecessary war and occupation that has turned Iraq into a bloody civil war. We have burned $300 billion on this quagmire which could have used here at home like reconstructing NO after the terrible mismanagement of Katrina.
These Repubs have absolutely no credibility that’s why they throw out baseless charges and try to play PR games. The American people are smarter, they know what a disaster the Repubs have been on Iraq and our national security.
The Dems have got to stop playing defense and get on the attack and focus on the lack of any credibillity of the Bush/Cheney regime and the Repubs in congress.
Huckermill
Not me, I see them all, maybe NSA is watching you closer than the rest of us?
dogeatdogi,
Or a pillow to bite.
Have you hit page-refresh lately, Huck?
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, got a Firedoglake reference into the question about Tom Edsall, on the Milbank WaPoO chat!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00754.html
Slightly off-topic: I wish pollsters would try to give us some idea of just how engaged the public is with the situation in Iraq. Suggested question:
The United States has spent the last several years establishing a democratic government in Iraq. The Iraqi people now have an elected government headed by a prime minister. What is his name? (I’ll give people half-credit if they can come up with the first letter.)
MSNBC Question of the Day
Should a timetable be set for pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq?
Yes
72%
No
28%
* 15366 responses
Mui @ 73
Thanks! I’m glad to see that Jim Davis voted “nay.”
Huckermill at 83 — mine doesn’t. I have sequentially numbered comments viewing on my computer.
OK====Phony GOP Resolution Over=====What did it Accomplish? NOTHING……
Jack Murtha was awesome,,,,He presented FACTS,,the RW Loons presented “Fairy Tales”
Americans, I believe, will view this for what it was a “CHARADE”. NOW WHAT IS the BUSH Exit Strategy for Iraq? can any Republican answer that question? NO they can’t except their Tired OLD “Victory” garbage…..
Iraq has been “Mission Impossible” not “Mission Accomplished”===While the GOP plays “Gutter” politics==3 more US Soldiers died yesterday….and Tony Snow says that the Milestone of 2500 Dead US Soldiers is “just a number”
Tony,,,Tell that to the 2500 Families who have LOST their Sons,,Daughters,,,Husbands,,Fathers… RWers===these were REAL PEOPLE not “Numbers”
Shame on the Republican Evil Doers.
Haven’t seen Mean Jean in her red, white and blue spandex as yet
Thanks.
Thanks a lot. Now I need to disinfect my brain and eyes…
Normon Solomon, executive director of the Institute for Public Accuracy writes yesterday “These days, and from here to the horizon, there’s no larger and more adamant Democratic constituency than the antiwar voters who want the U.S. military out of Iraq pronto. At this point, Hillary Clinton’s prowar position is far afield from from the views of most grassroots Democrats”. I couldn’t have said it as well. “Grassroots Democrats”? Is that what those of us who swim about in the blogosphere are called?
Reckon I oughtta be flattered then, me bein’ just a newbie ‘n all.
Well, whatever glitch was gummin’ up the works previous, them string a comments is back now.
I hope this doesn’t strike everyone as a little far fetched because I think this is what’s going on with the Repugnant Party. I am going to quote Jack Lessenberry here (a political commentator from Detroit) in the Metro Times -
“Years ago, author Sinclair Lewis said that when fascism came to America, it would be dressed up as patriotic, 100-percent Americanism. Fascism is, of course, an overused word, and too many silly leftists have accused too many people of “fascism.” People think of Adolf Hitler raving, swastikas and the gas chambers. No, we aren’t likely to become that. But do you know what the classical definition of fascism is, looking back to when it started in Mussolini’s Italy?
A political system of extreme nationalism, pressure for conformity in all spheres of life and the identification of the interests of various corporations with the interests of the state. Usually, fascist states are also prone to invade other countries when they decide they need resources.
We now forget %u2014 or perhaps never knew %u2014 that a big part of the reason for Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor was that we had cut off its access to oil. Do you really suppose we would have invaded Iraq if it were in South America and had next to no energy resources?”
Wow, Rep. John Duncan (R-Tenn) just made a brilliant statement. I’m impressed. He voted No, BTW
The roll:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll288.xml#NV
Lemme just whisper this OT to the golfers:
Tiger’s fixing to miss the cut at the Open — he’s at 10 with 3 holes to go (cut prolly at 6).
#80, me to me…..there ya go! The subjects you mention ARE the battles to fight. And right now.
Ghostman
Yesterday, on the floor of the House, a Republican Congressman from Texas tried to insuinate that Murtha was not patriotic enough and threw in the word Normandy for good measure. After he was finished, Murtha asked the Republican if he had been in Normandy. The Republican said no. Murtha asked if he had been in Vietnam. Not surprisingly, the Republican said that he had not. Murtha inquired if the Republican had been to Iraq. The best he could come up with was that he had visited Iraq. If the Democrats have an ounce of brains, they should continue to call these chickenhawks on their alleged patriotism so the whole country can see how hypocritical they are. This exchange between the two congressman can be viewed at youtube.com.
Dee:
I wish I could say I thought that was crazy, but it really is not. I have been saying for about 5 years that the Repugs and the Neo-Cons in particular are acting in the classic facist manner, but then people tell me to adjust my tin-foil hat.
The scary thing is that facist governments are generally elected to thier positions. With yeasterdays Supreme Court decision, we move that much closer to a police state. They will take your rights for your own good. Sadly, most people will let them. Ugh, that is really a downer.
(Golfers: spoze to be plus signs on those scores.)
OT — Well, well, well. I was putting away groceries and not paying much attention when the phone rang and it a solicitation from democrats for money. Since I had just received the email from Dean, I had donated directly (beyond my bond money) again and was about to say such, when my brain clicked when they said they wanted to win back the ‘Senate.’
I asked if this was the DSCC, and they said yes. My blood pressure rose, and I could feel my voice quiver in anger as I said ‘no way will I donate one dime so Schumer can prop up Lieberman. If Lieberman leaves the party, Schumer should leave him in the dust. They advised I call the DSCC. Said I had already done that and Schumer is NOT listening. She said thanks and goodbye.
Am wondering if Schumer is piggybacking on Dean trying to raise money for the 50 state strategy. Wonder how Schumer is doing????
Sorry for the intrusion. On topic, I wish they would just let Murtha take lead on this topic and vote however Murtha votes. But the d.c. dems (they don’t even deserve capitalization) are brainwashed, or braindead.
(Ether ate my note that plus-signs belong on those scores.)
All this back-and-forth about why they didn’t vote this way, or why they voted that way just continues to legitimize a political stunt. I mean, how meaningful can a “non-binding” resolution be? They crank those out by the armload every day, and as far as I can tell this one is no more meaningful than one that would congratulate the nation of Cowabunga on the outcome of the annual Cow-pie Bingo contest.
I agree that votes of “Present” would have been more powerful, but we all know that bloc-voting “Present” would be spun as “Democrats: ABSENT in the War on Terror.”
In due time, which I think will be relatively short, the Iraqi government is going to ask the Bush Administration for a timetable for withdrawal, as well. They are going to ask it in the face of the same kinds of conditions on the ground that have Bush saying it would be a mistake to leave. How can he refuse to comply with the wishes of a sovereign government without revealing that he does not really regard them as sovereign at all? And what happens if Bush hedges – how much more danger will our troops be in if we stay after being asked to leave?
For all the talk about how what Democrats say is emboldening the enemy, I am more concerned with how the GOP talk is pissing off Iraqis who want autonomy, and will see our intransigence in “staying the course” as proof that we are never going to leave, and will take out their anger on our troops.
I think this stunt by the House has just put a fresh coat of paint on all but the corner Bush is standing in, and how he will get out of that corner, and how the “Yay” voters will parse their votes in the future, would be very entertaining – but for the fact that all of this is just making it more dangerous for our men and women serving in Iraq.
Mood not improving today.
GrandmaJ, we might wonder whether Dean appreciates what Schumer’s up to, too . . .
Bustednuckles says:
June 16th, 2006 at 8:53 am
dogeatdogi,
Or a pillow to bite.
LOL!!!!
OT – Please help me paint my boat.
On the upper right side of my blog, I have a Ned Lamont campaign fundraising button with a sailboat on it. The more that gets donated, the more red paint on it.
Help me paint it red, and earn my undying respect and gratitude!
http://ctbob.blogspot.com
I find this vote rather encouraging, to be honest. Considering the total propaganda nature of the resolution, the large number of Democrats voting against it shows some signs of life in the opposition party.
Ultimately this is a paper tiger. Words on paper won’t stop the killing in Iraq. Seeing this much opposition to a craven domestic ploy indicates the GOP effort to create a wedge issue has failed.
Bill @ 94
Re: Murtha Facts vs Rethug Fairy Tales
It’s always safe, when analyzing these things, to assume that in any exchange, the Dem will talk about the substance of the issue and the Rethug will talk about the Dems.
It’s a hobby of mine to look at their arguments this way.
What I don’t understand is why the public doesn’t see this little pattern. It should really be transparent and working against the ‘thugs by now.
Ct Bob,,,
I agree,,I just saw Republican John Duncan’s words on the Floor,,,He said “I have been against this War from the beginning, Iraq was Not a Threat…..
Real Americans know that this Mess in Iraq was WRONG,,,,,the Repubs can Spin all they want,,,but the FACTS are there,,,the Iraq War was a HUGE BLUNDER and America will be paying a Price for Decades because of Bush’s Folly….
Bush has driven our Country over a Cliff,,,,,Hold on the ride to the Bottom has begun….
Jefferson just lost his committee seat:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI…..index.html
Anne:
I tend to disagree that it would be spun as Dems ABSENT, since the act of voting present contridicts that. Beyond that, this was done to put the Dems in a hard place anyway, so why not make the strongest statment we can?
The meme we need to push is that the Repugs are not really doing anything to make things better in Iraq or at home, that is why we should refuse to participate in their stunts, to highlight that it is a stunt. But I understand where you are coming from.
Cheers
Christy @ 66: The MSM were all ready to launch their “Bush Bounce” non-stop coverage after the past week of “good news.” But unfortunately none of W’s JAR polls went up more than 3%, even with the “good news.” Even the Good Morning America announcers couldn’t work up any enthusiasm for the 37% they were reporting this am. So they’re falling back to plan B, which is to reinforce the “Democrats are divided and can’t lead” meme.
Lois Capps, CA-23, just a great congresswoman, once again taking a stand for we who are veterans, for common sense, and for our freedom, voting no. Thank you Lois.
marksb: Lois Capps is my congresswoman too – and may I second that thank you?
So, mAnnthrax Coulter has now added Murtha to the list of Americans she wants assassinated?
Characterizing Murtha as “the reason soldiens invented ‘fragging’.”
Capps:
“Today the House of Representatives has begun a long overdue debate on the Iraq War.
I have always been against this misguided war. I believe it has made our country less secure by overstretching our armed forces, making Iraq a haven for terrorists and alienating our allies. More importantly, it has taken the lives of thousands of American military men and women and resulted in injuries to thousands more. I strongly support the efforts of our troops and their families and believe the best way we can help them is by bringing our troops home.”
Her superb floor speech: http://www.house.gov/list/spee…..aqwar.html
jarotra 44
I am … familiar with disappointment after pinning my hopes on the ability of the public to see the obvious.
ding, ding, ding – we have a winner. For some reason that simple phrase encapsulates so much of past five years….
My congresscritter voted present. Of course he voted for the war to begin with (I remember sending him e-mail saying don’t do that).
Airdrop photos of Jean’s quivering quim over the Iraqi countryside and the insurgents will immediately lay down their arms.
BobbyG, Coulter said *THAT*!?
I think this crosses the line into “stated threat to an elected official”, as in death threat. Wouldn’t take odds anyone will look into it, tho.
Fragging is no joke for the twit. Talk to anyone who was unfortunate enough to be lead by some stupid jr. officer who took too many chances with zero real knowledge of war and the terrain, and surrounded by tired, angry grunts just trying to last out one more tour to get home alive. What I’ve heard makes hell look like a vacation. Besides, fragging is murder against the highest authority of military law. And Coulter is suggesting Congressman and war-hero Murtha should be fragged? Stupid, stupid idiot!
I’ve got to go for a run. This is making me SOO angry!
Bobby G. You are missing Coulter’s “larger point”, that assassination is an effective tool to be used against your poltical enemies.
Let’s take a tally on the Coulter Genocide Hitlist
*Liberals
*The Entire New York Times staff
*Jack Murtha
*Muslim men–the children will be converted, I presume the women will be converted after they are raped.
*Supreme Court Justice Stevens
*President Bill Clinton
-GSD
OT: US Sues NJ over phone company subpoenas.
Fred:
You must know that is a clear use of weapons of mass destuction? 8-)
Oh yes, and a great talking point to beat some winger over the head.
Tell me how does allowing police officers to raid peoples houses without knocking first “reduce the size of government” and “keep government out of our lives?”
-GSD
Good Morning Firedogs,
After reading through the comments, the link below seems even more appropos of the situation
STOP CALLING IT A WAR, IT’S AN OCCUPATION !!!
This 1 pager from thereisnospoon, boldly illustrates -
how to wrest the power of Rove’ Frame Game from the pukes
and solidify Dems position with voters
Despite the polls, including one Tweety was sqawking about yesterday that says Americans plan to vote vis a vis positions on ‘the war’,
there’s reason to think Rove’s shit might still prove helpful
everyone should read it, in fact, I’d love to see it diaried at Kos and picked up by marquee bloggers
http://www.boomantribune.com/s…..195357/822
Yeah, y’all, Coulter is off the scale.
Don’t get me started on my black fantasies for HER. She’s my source of many Dirty Harry Moments when I allow myself to lapse into total outrage over her vile shit.
“I’m not sure I even have the heart to ask my Lieberman pals what’s up with this. Lieberman’s trying to show CT Dems he’s not out of touch but he’s showing them he’s out of his mind.”
Josh Marshall on Hol[e]y Joe’s “silly ‘bear cub’ ad.”
Marksb@124
Not only is Coulter flirting with death threats, I wonder when her spew will be seen as terrorist threats.
I mean, teachers’ unions and Joementum opponents have been called terrorists for far less.
There is no use in attacking Coulter – she thrives on it. It’s time to turn the full force of our anger on the media outlets which provide her a platform.
Did someone mention turning a corner in Iraq?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06…..r=homepage
Anne 133 -
You are correct. Reciprocal hateful reactions are EXACTLY what she’s gunning for.
BobbyG,
Whenever I hear Ann Colter’s name the words YEAST INFECTION come to mind. Works for me ; )
cbl@129
Thom Hartmann was subbing for Sam Sedar the other night and he, too, is framing it as an occupation. Says the war ended on the aircraft carrier, and ever since it’s been an occupation.
Lot easier to relinquish an occupation that to quit a war.
I like this frame.
OK
Time for some good news.
This AM on the car radio I heard a report that Lamont is within ^ points of leiberman in a new poll AND he just got endorsed by the teachers union.
Lamont is almost within the margin of error people and it ain’t even 4th of July yet!!! The 4th is a big campaign weekend up here in the Northeast.
“…Says the war ended on the aircraft carrier, and ever since it’s been an occupation.”
Ahhh.hh.h…and what a glorious end it was -
http://www.bgladd.com/The_Disgracer_in_Chief.jpg
lotus 131
Clueless Joe is just having a Bad Dream
sans clue very much, Joe
Re the link posted by Lindy H:
Going back to the possibility that sealed v. sealed MAY have something to do with the Plame investigation, does this signal a new line of strategy from the DOJ? To seek injuncts to prevent prosecutors who do not answer to Gonzales from doing their jobs?
It get curiouser and curiouser…………
New thread
me at 141:
Thats injunctions not injuncts
Don’t know what injuncts are
BobbyG 139
So it’s good to be adored by Teletubbies?
What a great picture!
And my 138
should be 6 points not ^points
God, if only I could TYPE!!!!
but lhp, you are our TYPE….
new thread
Coulter- finds she has to become increasingly outrageous in order to get press attention- like growing tolerance to a drug.
Does anyone know in what jurisdiction Coulter said the “fragging” comment about Murtha? Was she on television — or was it a radio interview where she could have been talking from just about anywhere? Anyone know specifically? If so, do you have a link?
OK — enough. Karl Rove will always do what Karl Rove has always done. The real question is: WHY, in 2006, do so many Americans fall for this? I feel NO sorrow for them anymore. Zero. Zip. Zilch.
I save my sorrow for the rest of us. Those of us who have just as much time as anyone else to know the truth. Enough BS about having to “work 10 jobs” etc etc etc. I see that they have plenty of time to watch American Idol.
I blame stupid Americans for this. There will always be Roves — he is not a genious — he is evil. And stupid Americans fall for it.
Enough. We have tried to warn them for 4 years. If they don’t GET it by now, they never will.
I guess this is OT, although related.
Really good WaPo story (credit where due) via msnbc on the situation re: prisons and militia. It show the degree of sectarian divide (is that a “civil” way to say it) re: prison.
There is also the recurring sad disconnect of the American statement as to what the Iraqis should or shouldn’t be doing to their prisonsers. But I’m not linking for snipe. It’s a good story with a lot of real reporting and talking to people who are not “an unnamed govt official” saying “the ice cream trucks will be running by next week.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13328484/
By Jonathan Finer and Ellen Knickmeyer
Iraq’s prison system is overrun with Shiite Muslim militiamen who have freed fellow militia members convicted of major crimes and executed Sunni Arab inmates, the country’s deputy justice minister said in an interview this week.
“We cannot control the prisons. It’s as simple as that,” said the deputy minister, Pusho Ibrahim Ali Daza Yei, an ethnic Kurd. “Our jails are infiltrated by the militias from top to bottom, from Basra to Baghdad.”
As a result, Yei has asked U.S. authorities to suspend plans to transfer prisons and detainees from American to Iraqi control. “Our ministry is unprepared at this time to take over the facilities, especially those in areas where Shiite militias exist. . .
It’ a pretty tough story about a system that is overrrun with corruption and, well, a militarized-militia approach that leave justice and investigation behind. The fact that the militias are so tied to and backed by parlimentary factions makes adds a political layer to the complexities of military v. civilian justice based responses; militia v. insurgents v. military; and religious sectarian v. ethnic v. political power.
“Shiite militias such as the Badr Organization and the Mahdi Army, loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, are backed by dozens of members of parliament whose political parties run the armed groups.
“You can’t even talk to the militias, because they are the government,” Yei said. “They have ministers on their side”
Real facts (details of mulitple actual incidents), info from mulitple Iraqi sources speaking for the record and describing incidents, not spieling platitudes. I remembered why I used to read the Post.
Christy:
It is up on E&P at http://www.editorandpublisher……1002689569
The article says that is was an e-mail to e-mail interview. It does not say where she was participating from.
Thanks, Bill — much appreciated.
Christy 149 -
See http://www.newsmax.com/archive…..5633.shtml
mAnnthrax – *snort* good one BobbyG. I hear my mom’s advice ringing in my ears whenever she opens her yap – “Don’t encourage her.” I’d like to start a shunning movement for Coulter. It’s not enough to simply ignore her, she might think we didn’t hear. A dismissive remark, a disgusted moue, THEN ignore.
Either a new party, or one with discipline. On unity we lose roughly 98% to 75%–too disgusted to do the math, but, we’ll need over 300 members in the House to get anything done.
I read the Rolling Stone interview with Murtha and the question occured to me: Is the redeployment he’s talking about going to turn out to be moving the troops to those permanent bases that one of the houses of Congress recently refused to deny funding for?
tanbark at #52 kicked major ass !!
As far as Rove’s being in the ring again (post CIA leak investigation), with his “Democrats are unpatriot” smear, it’ll be interesting to see if the old playbook works. I’m skeptical. As we are aware, without even considering Rove’s credibility, the public mood has shifted significantly since 2002-2004 and the majority of Americans are against the War in Iraq. There is widespread disillusionment with government which will heighten into the fall mid-terms. I think perhaps Bush’s brain either doesn’t realize the depth of the dissatisfaction, or he’s overestimating his abilities to once again manipulate the public. By saying Democrats are unpatriot, Rove is saying the majority of Americans are unpatriotic and given the mood out here, Rove’s “strategery” just may backfire on the Repubs and GWB. Also, as much as the tactic on the House resolution is deplorable, it may also backfire giving the Dems all that time to talk about the Iraq war. I can understand why the Repubs would want to keep the momentum going, but I submit they are being shortsighted, particularly if the war continues to go badly. The Repubs are on the record to keep the country in the quagmire indefinitely.
Cozumel @ 9:44 am (#136) – Whenever I hear Ann Colter’s name the words YEAST INFECTION come to mind.
As in “Ann’s a yeast infection of a human being”?
almostboiledfrom – that would be my guess.
almostboiledfrog – and I can’t type either.
The Democrats should have exited the chamber when voting began, or stood and turned their backs. Why the hell do they continue to play the Republican game? Jesus H. Christ.
Thanks JC at #91, that’s great news!
Who would have guessed that over 70% of americans polled by msnbc think we should END THE DAMN WAR ALREADY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
When I make the bumper stickers it’ll be like printing money.
On setting a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, GWB announced after his return from his trip Iraqis’ “concerns that a timetable would disrupt their strategy to create a secure and democratic Iraq.”
Now this from the AP:
“Iraq’s VP, Tariq al-Hashim, personally asked President Bush to set a timeline for withdrawal of US forces the day before. Iraq’s President Jalal Talabani said he supported the request.”
The CNN reporter this morning called the Republican tactics “creative” and “effective”
Melissa Bean voted for this sham resolution? You don’t say…
I don’t really understand everyone’s suprise at the vote. Noone seems to want to ask the question, Why are we in Iraq? We are in Iraq because it is the biggest prize in the whole world! Oil, Oil, Oil!!! Ask this way: WOULD WE BE IN IRAQ IF IRAQ HAD NO OIL? No, of course not. So when you drive home tonight, look around and what you will see is a world entirely dependent on oil. You are just one little twenty gallon minnow in a sea of other minnows. What are you going to do about that?
The great decider has a great dividerer doing the thinking to make deciding by the deciderer the most divisivering.
Cherubic dolt manipulating a messianic buffoon, “tuning” goose stepping brain dead congressional republicans with “talking points” from the defense department, to “zeig heil” the blatant lies that 9/11 had something to do with Saddam’s Iraq. It is good that this “debate” be aired, for the truth of the lies perpetrated by Bush should be remembered by all when we ponder the loss of 2500 military lives, and thousands of innocent Iraqis who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.
I’m a little shell schocked by all of this…when did Senator Joe Lieberman stop bashing his wife again?
This vote signals the completion of the cretinization of American politics begun by the nomination of George W. Bush.