fitz!

CSPAN - Duncan Hunter - looking at iraqi army now, we see core of strength; leadership emerging.

It’s really sad how blatant all this is. It’s all the more reason to work hard for the November elections. Once that is accomplish the next feat will be to kick people like Schumer in the ass out the door.

CSPAN - Duncan Hunter - saying we should all be united, like we were in WW2 and send the united message to the troops. Fails to mention that WW2 meant a great deal and Iraq is a waste.

now Murtha speaking…

Roosevelt said if u disagree w/ policy and u dont say anything, that’s treasonous

Murtha done, now Henry Waxman…

CSPAN - Waxman - all reasons for war turned out to be false. waste fraud and abuse have flourished in iraq. it is not being rebuilt. we have lost credibility and are viewed as occupiers.

Well look at that. It took Christy all of 2 hours to forget the “Get Real” campaign. I guess you can colour me surprised too.

NO ACTUALLY WE CAN COLOR YOU GONE. BYE BYE…

Ken was so smitten with John Stewart that he lost control of himself for a second.

Hope the movie’s over and you’re on CSPAN now — Waxman on H’burton!

Speaking of the Cheneys:

SOMETHING FOR MARY…

Dear Mary Cheney,

I understand how difficult it must be for you to walk that fine line that exists in your mind to be both queer and “acceptable” to Mom and Dad. The problem is, no matter how hard you try Mom, Dad and their Republican friends will always LOATHE you. Oh yeah, they will say they “hate the sin and love the sinner,” but DEEP DOWN they know the “sin” is attached to your chromosomes.

read more…

http://www.pinkpanthersblog.com/

CSPAN - Waxman - spent billions on reconstruction and the situation is actually getting worse. the troops needed that reconstruction $$. Halliburton - largest contractor in iraq, 3 contracts for over $3billion. got secret no bid contract of 7 billion to operate iraq oil fields. Scooter was personally briefed on this months before the war. pentagon audits show un-auditable charges exceed $1.4 billion. overcharging for basic goods… hallib’s contracts are “cost plus” - the more hallib. spends, the richer they get. informal motto is “dont worry about price, it’s cost plus”

Calling Jack Cafferty…this sounds like one for Angry Dad.

OT here, but on topic for the Gitmo posting this morning –
If any of you teach or are otherwise involved in schools, you might think about participating in the Guantanamo Teach-in that Seton Hall Law School is sponsoring on October 6. Most participants are also law faculty — but there’s some that aren’t. The primary activity will be a “virtual teach-in” which will be broadcast from S.H., but there are other activities planned and members of the Guantanamo Bay Bar Association will be available to speak.

Basic info is at http://law.shu.edu/guantanamoteachin/

Waxman takes up Dorgan’s entire theme from his 2 speeches yesterday– these guys deserve a democratic majority in November along with the rest of us!

OT…

Election Research is robopolling in Eastern WA.

Questions (from memory)

Do you support George Walker Bush?
Do you support Hilary Rodham Clinton?
Do you support not increasing taxes or decreasing them?
Do you support the right of government to take your house or church to give it to someone who will pay more taxes?
Do you support a program to give illegal immigrants a path to work and live in the US, but not citizenship?
Have you ever donated money to a political campaign or a church?
Do you consider yourself a Republican?

Wow. What a load of crap. After all, Election Research is the polling arm of ccAdvertising, connected to Grover Norquist, which was gathering data, rather than aggregating it, to use to target further political advertising, calls, solicitations, etc.

Sounds to me like they’re gathering data for their election year blitz…

twolf1 10 -

http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html

Long been known.

EPU’d!

Comment germane to this thread:

Duncan Hunter is talking about troop levels. It makes me think of one discrete aspect of the disaster Republican rule has been for our country.

The Rumsfeldian streamlining of the American military seems to be part of the Republican Party’s plundering of the national treasure. Please correct me if this isn’t right, but I’ve always thought these thugs like to lower the numbers of personnel and drive down their pay and benefits to cover up the sheer amount of the $$ being siphoned off the unsupervised military budget.

I live near Sacramento, CA. When I was growing up, we had two thriving bases, McLellan and Mather, as well as several other bases nearby — Travis, Beale come to mind. They were fabulous sources of civilian employment and wealth to the greater metropolitan area. The wealth generated by those bases flowed outward and fed the wealth of the community.

These days, the neighborhoods around those bases are like neighborhoods in other towns that have lost their income-producing assets. Halliburton et al are doing fine, thank you.

When are people going to see these Republican operators for the scam artists they are?

Ethics violations don’t mean anything to this government. Has Cheney broken any laws here that he can be prosecuted for?

CSPAN - Waxman - halliburton employees stayed at 5 star hotels and got fruit baskets.

“profound systemic probs” with halliburton. hallib symbolizes what has gone astray in iraq, but they r not the only contractor committing fraud in iraq - over 70 corruption investigations in iraq

OT: The daily show yesterday was superb. It should have its own entry today.

Every moment was suberb. Watched the Colbert after (only seen it twice) and it was a great chaser with what one can only hope is one of the dumber do-nothing congress people.

Re slogan: Agreeing with both Matt’s and Skippy’s ideas, I suggest our nominees go with “I[We]’ll get real for America!”

BobbyG - yes, I’m live blogging CSPAN for those who can’t watch now

Rob Zuber 17 -

Again praphrasing Leona Helmsley,

Ethics are for the little people.

Rob Zuber,Does shooting a guy in the face count?

CSPAN - Waxman - congress must b more than a cheerleading section for the white house. iraq has been a windfall for many insiders.

twolf1 @ 10:35 am (#4) - I think ole’ Duncan needs a refresher on 20th century history. The Japanese actually did attack Pearl Harbor, and the Germans actually did declare war on us.

Over 18K wounded troops so far — Waxman

Jesus.

CSPAN - Waxman - we owe more to our troops than slapping bumper stickers on our cars. we more to the families with people in iraq. the white house and congress have failed our troops, the iraqi’s and families of troops. it is shameful.

Waxman done

twolf1 -

Thanks for the play-by-play reporting.

The Cheney documents, like the Downing Street memo, will surely be dismissed by the MSM as “old news”. After all, everyone already knows he’s a corrupt liar.

CSPAN - Peter Hoekstra -threats we face r real, serious and ongoing. must face aggressively, not shy away. now defining the war w/ radical islam (didn’t they want to NOT say it was a war on islam???).

Christy– Dorgan invoked Bunnatine’s name I don’t know how many times yesterday and condemned the Senate for not caring about her or anything else when it came to waste, fraud and abuse. He had included whistleblower protection in his amendment. He brought up the fact that the person hired to do her job was incompetent and was in school now to learn about it… just another crony.

(I warned you)

I finally witnessed Jon Stewart’s live vivisection of Ken Mealymouth Mehlman. It was brilliant, absoltely brilliant and all elected Dems and their advisors should be sitting up and taking notes.

The theme he pounded over and over was, CREDIBILITY. And Ken just writhed and grimaced and twisted in the wind. Because Jon wasn’t buying anything he was saying%u2013BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CREDIBILITY!

This approach could conceivably undermine every single issue they have. It’s very potent and also fits with the “get real” theme.

I also loved how he parroted Ken’s talking points back to him. That was priceless.

LindaR,

also grew up in Sac (Land Park)let’s not forget Aerojet General was also a great area employer and community member - until many of it’s programs were decommissioned - along with Mather and McClelland

- by Bush 41 w/ Richard Cheney as Sec Def.

Oh, and Mealymouth’s “greed and cynicism” comment did not play as a joke AT ALL on the show. I didn’t even realize it was supposed to be a joke til this morning.

Hoekstra blaming the Clinton admin in the 1990’s for not connecting the dots and now dumb Heather Wilson continuing on his path of destructive remembrance.

CSPAN - Hoekstra - many attacks in the 90s. but nobody connected the dots.

-he has some charts, very basic-

yields to heather wilson R-new mexico

-war on terror didnt start on 9/11

Let’s make ads with some of those quotes from Waxman’s speech - like the wrap-up in twolf1 at 26 - we owe them more than slapping a bumper sticker on our cars.
Loved the pic of the Kuwait hotel and pool where Halliburton employees stay; says they refused to move to tents - with a/c! Waxman came out and called them shameful. Mentioned the recalled armor that already made the manufacturer rich. (I found live streaming c-span!)
Now Hoekstra - reoub - spouting nothing but talking points - we’re in a global war “against western democracy” we must do “whatever it takes” to fight them.
Aaargh, is Murtha out of time? Must have missed it while typing. Oh well, must.close.computer.now. Real.life.calls…..

CSPAN - Wilson - spewing the same stuff, talking about past attacks and how we didnt connect them.

terrorists thrive in iraq b/c it is a failed state (is that what she said?)

if so, DUH

Professor Foland @ 10:49 am (#28) - Wonder how long Tim Russert will go without discussing these documents before he calls them the “famous” Cheney documents.

Linda R @ 16

When are people going to see these Republican operators for the scam artists they are?

The bigger question is will they see it before the Military Industrial Complex has completely excised the public citizen component and transformed into a private feudal army controlled by these very same scam artists.

It is all pre-meditated. Look at the Base Relocation (BRAC) reconfigurations for patterns.

Pentagon talking points on Iraq, war on terror

An incredibly lengthy “prep book” for discussion of the Iraq war and US efforts to end terrorism has been issued to supporters in Congress, and acquired by RAW STORY.

The 74 page document seems to be an election year guide for Republicans and Democratic supporters of the war, with many of the “points” seeming to be rebuttals to arguments made by opponents of the war.

Other portions seek to categorize opponents of the war as “cut and run” advocates.

Though certain images could not, as of the time of publication, be transferred, we are making available to readers the entire Pentagon playbook for debate, which follows: …

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0615.html

Bunnatine’s story is an important one among many. Thank God someone is giving her some mention after all this time.

gleex #18: “The daily show yesterday was superb. It should have its own entry today”

Someone else here said, “It’s sad when the only real news show is a “fake” news show . . .”

Ain’t THAT the truth. More true this week than ever.

GET REAL
GET REAL
GET REAL
GET REAL
GET REAL
GET REAL
GET REAL
GET REAL

CSPAN - Hoekstra - quoting zarqawi and showing more charty goodness. yields to mike rogers (r-michigan)

i feel so blue

Doncha think all these speeches by the rethugs are going to be used in their re-election campaigns?

Who is Zawahari Zarqawi??? Hoekstra just said that, I swear.

woo-hoo, *ilson!

Well, this IS, after, all, a blue state-of-mind blog.

Wilson!!!! Knock it off!!!

angie - he was saying a letter from Zawahari to Zarqawi… i think

Only the terrorists and some politicians in this town want us to leave Iraq…………

NICE.

I think we’re going through a purple patch

CSPAN - the repubs aren’t saying much. seem to be bringing back the scare tactic used in the last election. get ready for elevated terror levels

cbl 32

Land Park rocks!

Yes, Aerojet, how could I forget? And thanks for spelling McClelland correctly. I always have a mental block on that one.

*ilson -
Repub Purple Prose

CSPAN - thornberry R-TX -al qaeda used internet video games to get their message out.

I predict war profiteering will be a BIG issue.

Everybody gets the juxtaposition of stealing money that our soldiers needed for body armor.

I kind of like the purple text; it matches the veins standing out on my forehead after reading about Dr. Evil.

Naomi Klein is as correct today as when she wrote the following in 2004:
_____

” The great historical irony of the catastrophe unfolding in Iraq is that the shock-therapy reforms that were supposed to create an economic boom that would rebuild the country have instead fueled a resistance that ultimately made reconstruction impossible. Bremer’s reforms unleashed forces that the neocons neither predicted nor could hope to control, from armed insurrections inside factories to tens of thousands of unemployed young men arming themselves. These forces have transformed Year Zero in Iraq into the mirror opposite of what the neocons envisioned: not a corporate utopia but a ghoulish dystopia, where going to a simple business meeting can get you lynched, burned alive, or beheaded. These dangers are so great that in Iraq global capitalism has retreated, at least for now. For the neocons, this must be a shocking development: their ideological belief in greed turns out to be stronger than greed itself.

Iraq was to the neocons what Afghanistan was to the Taliban: the one place on Earth where they could force everyone to live by the most literal, unyielding interpretation of their sacred texts. One would think that the bloody results of this experiment would inspire a crisis of faith: in the country where they had absolute free reign, where there was no local government to blame, where economic reforms were introduced at their most shocking and most perfect, they created, instead of a model free market, a failed state no right-thinking investor would touch. And yet the Green Zone neocons and their masters in Washington are no more likely to reexamine their core beliefs than the Taliban mullahs were inclined to search their souls when their Islamic state slid into a debauched Hades of opium and sex slavery. When facts threaten true believers, they simply close their eyes and pray harder…”

http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html

Let’s see if that fixes it.

twolf #50–well that’s the Republican ace-in-the-hole, doesn’t take ESP to see it coming, and if the Dems aren’t ready for it they will lose. They’d better start addressing their national security credentials ASAP.

This is weird, when I clicked on the read rest of entry link for this post, I got kicked to the archive of Wed, Oct. 19.

when I hit the comments link I found Y’all here.

I’m using Safari 1.2.1

I wish I beleived in God, then I would feel certain that these pukes would eventually get theirs and rot in hell.

Cheney stinks, he is rotten to the core - if he has one.

sowwy! … (puts away the gay activist’s HTML toy toolkit)

Hi Sac people. I grew up in Davis :)

This House debate is yet another colossal waste of the taxpayers’ time and money.

There’s REAL work to be done, America!

BobbyG where is Naomi Klein these days?

My ears are blowing off anyway, twolf1– one terraist beginning with Z is much the same as another beginning with Z. You know, Iraq/Iran.

Mujir, Masri, Muhajer.

Yeh, we BET you sowwy, *ilson. You bad pup, you.

Did anyone hear a caller this morning on Air America talk about visiting a resort in Boca Raton? He walked down a hall and the doors had signs “Halliburton” and “Bank of America” and I believe he said “KBR” among others. He was dining near a group of about 30 people and overheard a man say that he was not able to get something done so he went a requested and received a signed executive order so he could get it done. (Executive orders only are signed by the VP or the Pres.) Everyone laughed and cheered. The caller was so emotionally upset, so angry, that I tend to believe the veracity of the call. His voice was trembling as he said that 5 Marines had died that same day while these guys drank and cheered.

This has stayed with me all day today. We know what the administration is up to but sometimes it slaps you across the face again and this story left my cheek stinging.

CSPAN - Jo Ann Davis - Looks like barney took a dump on her dress.

talking about home grown terrorists - ie. Spain

I have a friend who grew up in Loomis. Does that count? And another friend who was married at the Baptist church in Coloma.

twolf1 @ 11:02 am (#56) - Yeah, who do Al Qaeda think they are, anyway, the U.S. Army?

Susan 60 — actually, I think the way GWBush et al act proves they don’t really believe in God.

Oh — wait. Rapture Republicans don’t think you have to be good to go to heaven. They’re from the beliefs-not-acts crowd; i.e., if you’re on our team, you’re in, and if you’re not, you’re not. End of story.

What’s the opposite of “Cut and Run”(which I have a special place in my heart for after Mean Jean’s bogus use of it against Murtha)? “Stay and Be Slaughtered”? “Stay and Kill”? “Stay and Go Broke”? “Stay and Lose MORE Respect for America?”

Oh, and as for the war against Radical Islam, somebody should point out to Peter H. that “radical” means “basic, essential or true” and there are a lot more of them than there are us, whoever “us” is.

Hey wait??? California State Prison in Sacramento?

No such place, unless it’s one of their secret prisons.

come on now, it’s the poor chump’s version of the Mary Matalin outer space flowie. Poofy like the content of her home grown terrorism threat speech.

CSPAN - they are pushing the notion that terrorists use technology to get their message out. like those crazy dee vee dee things and all the internets. they even download videos!!!

Wow Dee–it really is as bad as we think.

Which show was that on? (Not all air at the same time everywhere.)

Yes, *ilson!

Color me rainbow (kind if like reality).

I like the Real theme. It needs a good foundation to support it, too:

-Sincerity about views/goals
-Open government up to more scrutiny than citizens’ personal lives
-Face our real threats where direct action is needed and is failing now (in ports, in opium fields, with under-funded police forces, etc)
-Real leadership for real peoples’ needs, not for corporations and cronies

uh-oh Joann says they are using the media like the internets to divide this country.

Al-scooter 69

I went to Del Oro High School in Loomis. A lot of my friends’ parents worked at Aerojet, in fact.

EPU’d
Christy, I tried their archives in every possible combination and couldn’t get to it. I couldn’t even get the June 14, 2006 page to come up. The re-cycle truck just picked up the papers so out of luck their. I think the quote came from your first post on monday and remember the the quote in the paper ended with some like ‘until you here from PJF its not over’ or words to that effect. Sorry, I couldn’t do better, but the upside is that someone at the RMN is reading your blog so they haven’t all drunk the koolaid - yet!

I too despise the “Cut and Run” slogan — what about “Cut and Walk Away Fast” ?

susan 64 -

She writes for The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Colu.....991,0.html

Thanks, Rubber Soul — appreciate you trying to find it. Just wanted to know the topic. Every once in a while something makes its way around to the right side of the thought processes, and I’m always curious to know why and what catches on. Really appreciate the follow-up from you. :)

froggermarch–I like, “Stay and be Slaughtered”

Dems should bring up the “V”-word more often in this context. Iraq really is becoming a Vietnam. Do we want to be there 20 years??

twolf1 @ 11:07 am (#77) - And I’ll bet they download from, oh what’s it called, Napster!! Clearly, they’ll stop at nothing to destroy our way of life.

Someone needs to ask about the capacity of army special forces. They are depleted.

New headline (no link yet) on RS:

Exclusive: Pentagon confirms Iranian ‘directorate’ office; Neocon says he met prominent Iranian exile; Intel officials worry plans underway: 2 PM ET…

If what we were doing in Iraq - or anywhere else - were actually having an effect on terrorism, I might be able to see their point, but it’s not.

I do, however, feel terrorized every time I have to write a check for my health insurance, buy gas for my car, pay the electric company. Food costs more, tuitions are going up. Medication costs more. My mom’s on a waiting list for a retirement community, and by the time she gets to the top of the list, the housing boom will be bust, and she won’t be able to afford to move.

And while we are all reaching deeper into our pockets, dipping into savings, trying to make those miniscule raises - if we even got raises - stretch to cover the rising cost of just being, I keep having to read about this public official or that just flat-out stealing from us all, and getting away with it.

This is gonna be one long, hot summer, and there are no signs that anyone is finding this crap any easier to tolerate.

REALLY CRANKY TODAY. GRRRRR.

BobbyG - thanks, she hasn’t written anything for awhile and she was contributing to the Nation too but I haven’t seen anything by her in recently. Figured maybe she’s writing a book

froggermarch - Think I’ll go with “Stay and get other people’s kids killed”.

Cujo359 - tomorrow’s headline - RIAA drops 500 lb. bombs on baghdad because they mistakenly thought al qaeda downloaded copies of “Bombs over Baghdad”

Last night at 6pm a bunch of us local peace activists planted 2500 small American flags (with a black ribbon) on a large grassy area in the park outside the National American Legion Headquarters … we left them : they are still all out there at noon today …

And may I ask how fine a line it is to have Republicans on the floor of the House bitching about GHWB’s Iraq policy and calling it, repeatedly, an historic blunder? Is it me, or is this not the most prudent of moves on their part — given the fact that so many of George the First’s buddies have been holding their tongues only for Junior’s sake. Hello, Stormin’ Norman, James Baker, Brent Scowcroft and everyone else who has been appalled by Junior’s idiocy and piss poor planning and accountability — time to take off the gloves. Someone has more than earned it.

Okay - I give up - third time im moderation today.

Thank you ilson46201

Oscarsmom @ #75 - I was driving to work a little late so it had to be Jerry Springer except he had a sub in today…I think last name started with an H… (around 915AM Eastern time)

This is war:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....rop15.html
“Sobering advice to Democrats with a blogging problem”

” . . . We don’t want that to happen to Ned Lamont, who is challenging Sen. Joe Lieberman in the Connecticut Democratic primary. The blogs have turned the Greenwich entrepreneur into a serious contender, and bless them for that. But now things get dangerous. Lamont is running a television ad in which he is joined by jubilant young supporters, including the DailyKos’s Markos Moulitsas, who mugs at length for the camera. That’s cute, but stop right there.

Lamont is the best kind of liberal candidate. He’s for universal health coverage and all the other good things, but comes at the issues from a sophisticated business perspective. It’s not healthy for his campaign to become overly identified with the hothead dramatics and childish expletives of the lefty blogs.”

Plus lots of other fighting words . . .

CSPAN - murtha- we have to make sure the rhetoric doesnt get ahead of the facts

http://www.bgladd.com/Bush_Mal.....ign_ad.jpg

http://www.bgladd.com/Bush_Mal....._em_on.jpg

http://www.bgladd.com/Bush_Mal....._TWICE.jpg

Murtha just pointed out GHWB’s blunders in terms of the cuts to intelligence, Christy.

Let’s not let our rhetoric get ahead of the facts.

Jerry Springer on Air America??????

CSPAN - Rahm Emanuel D-Ill - Rep congress suffers from the soft bigotry of low expectations

they see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil - the congress walked away from its oversight responsibility. the was has turned out to be the opposite of what it was billed as.

he is talking too fast for my typing :(

Pentagon confirms Iranian directorate as officials raise new concerns about war

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0615.html

“hothead dramatics and childish expletives of the lefty blogs”

Hahahahahahahohohohohohoheeheeheeheeheehawhawhaw…

To words: mAnn Coulter

angie at 101 — I’m not saying there weren’t errors on GHWB’s part. But the GOP folks are the ones bringing up the historic blunders in not “finishing the job” in Iraq. That’s a HUGE sore spot for the GHWB crowd — and what I’m saying is, I’m not sure it is wise to poke that sort spot with a sharp stick like they are doing today. There are reasons they didn’t want to invade and occupy Iraq — and we are living the results of those reasons every single day.

Tony Snow on 2500 American troops lost in Iraq ….

“It’s a number”

Yes, you pathetic excuse for a human, it’s a number of fathers, husbands, sons, brothers, mothers, wives, and sisters.

CSPAN - mike rogers - scare tactics - “the terrorists will behead you” - and thats a quote

CSPAN - mike rogers - “our soldiers are fighting the WoT in military uniforms in iraq so our children don’t have to fight it here in their school uniforms”

Mike Rogers (R) Michigan asks (derisively) “Where were we four years ago?”

I don’t think Republicans want to be asking that question.

Four years ago:

How many of our soldiers were dead in Iraq?

What were interest rates?

What was the national debt?

How much was gasoline per gallon? Oil barrel?

Where, to put it bluntly, was Nick Berg’s head?

I think Get Real is very good, but I’m even more for CHANGE THE COURSE.

People shy away from Dems bc they have been too passive and no one thinks they will effect changes.

People wait to hear them get some backbone and stand for something. Well - taking the “stay the course” idiot theme head on gives them that ability.

CHange the course - before we go off the end of the cliff.

Change the course - before America’s debtor status is out of control.

Change the course - and actually find Bin Laden.

Change the course - and deal with criminals like Zarqawi before you start a war instead of taking Bush’s option of skipping the 6 or so chances to deal with Zarqawi until after he was able to start a war that made billions for his corporate backers.

Change the course - before we create more terrorists.

Change the course - before America becomes known as a state sponsor of torture.

Change the course - before social security is destroyed.

Change the course - that has given us six years with no discernible stock market growth.

Change the course - before we have rampant inflation.

Change the course - to address the needs of the American middle class and the poor.

Change the coures - to get government out of people’s private lives.

Change the course - before the draft.

Change the course - while we still can.

I agree with you. Wonder what poppy is thinking today as he listened to good ole Henry Hyde. The second line of my 100 was a direct quote from Murtha– not my words to you! Time for the old timers to unlock their lips of loyalty!

twolf1 at 110 — that was the point where I said fuck you to my television set. How dare he. And how dare he say anything to Murtha about his service…

CSPAN - mike rogers - Lets not come home in humiliation because we have a november deadline.

Murtha speaking now - “This is rhetoric”

christy, yes, they are hard to take. their pointless crap.

geez, my 111 was in response to you Christy!

“Lets not come home in humiliation”

I got news for this asshole: the humiliation of the U.S. moral ideal is already extant, thanks to BushCo.

About the connecting the dots in the 1990s and Clinton, it is generally forgotten how Republicans hamstrung Clinton in his responses to terrorists. Anyone remember the charges of “Wag the Dog” when Clinton made any attempt to do so.

I have always thought that Republicans in their obsession to attack Clinton bear great moral responsibility for 9-11. During the Clinton years, to them political games seemed so much more important than distracting terrorists who were, after all, so far away. When Bush was elected, he immediately downgraded what emphasis Clinton had placed on terrorism. Then the terrorists struck and Bush became overnight a “wartime” President and the master of national security.

It will not be the terrorists who do us in. It will be stupidity and bad memory.

hugh 118 — right on.

Let’s not let our rhetoric get ahead of the facts.
was a Murtha quote, no?

Reasons to stay in Iraq: we don’t want to be humiliated (yes, pride is a great reason to keep bringing kids home in body bags) and ending the madness will mean those 2,500 deaths were in vain (given that victory is never going to be realized, all these deaths have been suffered in the vain pursuit of an egomaniac’s misguided dream).

CSPAN - “preaching cut and run is killing americans” - some republican