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	<title>Comments on: Dodging CIPA Graymail Bullets&#8230;And Other Legal Notes</title>
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		<title>By: Lynda artist</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-141372</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynda artist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 03:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am first time responding after getting so enthused about the energy at YKos. Did anyone see this posting and if so is there any comment?http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am first time responding after getting so enthused about the energy at YKos. Did anyone see this posting and if so is there any comment?http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/</p>
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		<title>By: Matilda in Oak Park</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-141024</link>
		<dc:creator>Matilda in Oak Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;In Fitz I trust.  He has done, and will continue to do, what the law allows.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Fitz I trust.  He has done, and will continue to do, what the law allows.</p>
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		<title>By: quixote</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140914</link>
		<dc:creator>quixote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140914</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know what? Let’s stop using the term “balls.”  All the folks with visible balls don’t seem to have any.  It’s only the people who have ‘em inside, where they can’t get taken away, who actually ever seem to use them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;/*gets hold of self*/&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry.  I’m just maga-bummed.  In spite of Christy’s encouraging thoughts, I fear the worst.  All the real scumbags get off scotfree, The Big White Turd does his worst for the fall campaign, the Dems keep presenting seventeen-point plans, and we sink so far into dictatorship that we never ever ever get out.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All that’s needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.  And I had Fitz booked in the “good” column.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what? Let’s stop using the term “balls.”  All the folks with visible balls don’t seem to have any.  It’s only the people who have ‘em inside, where they can’t get taken away, who actually ever seem to use them.</p>
<p>/*gets hold of self*/</p>
<p>Sorry.  I’m just maga-bummed.  In spite of Christy’s encouraging thoughts, I fear the worst.  All the real scumbags get off scotfree, The Big White Turd does his worst for the fall campaign, the Dems keep presenting seventeen-point plans, and we sink so far into dictatorship that we never ever ever get out.</p>
<p>All that’s needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.  And I had Fitz booked in the “good” column.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140784</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140784</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bottom line:  One has to consider that Fitz did not want to be the buy who brought down a president.&lt;br /&gt;
Had he indicted Rove, that would have made W the guy behind the deal, thus, Fitz would have been the guy to point his finger to W.&lt;br /&gt;
I think, and one has to consider that Fitz is human, that Fitz saw that and he pulled back.  Can you blame him?  No.  But it is a bummer that Karl is off the hook.&lt;br /&gt;
This is one of those things that take some balls and in spite of what we all thought of Fitz, and I think highly of him, the bottom line is that he blinked!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bottom line:  One has to consider that Fitz did not want to be the buy who brought down a president.<br />
Had he indicted Rove, that would have made W the guy behind the deal, thus, Fitz would have been the guy to point his finger to W.<br />
I think, and one has to consider that Fitz is human, that Fitz saw that and he pulled back.  Can you blame him?  No.  But it is a bummer that Karl is off the hook.<br />
This is one of those things that take some balls and in spite of what we all thought of Fitz, and I think highly of him, the bottom line is that he blinked!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Rosenbach</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140773</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Rosenbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140773</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a lifelong liberal Democrat, I’m amazed at what I’m reading here. What have you guys been smoking? You’re engaged in wild speculation and wishful thinking.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The whole Plame thing was a stupid, non-starter right from the beginning. Joe Wilson’s claims started to fall apart with the release of the 2002 NIE summary conclusions in July 2003. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2004 and the Robb-Silberman report in 2005 pretty much put him in the doghouse. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for Ms. Plame - you can’t be a covert operative and commute to the CIA Headquarters ever day for years. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I predict that the Libby trial will end quickly once it gets into court, with either the judge throwing it out or a quick aquittal for Libby - it’s such a non-existant case. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hillary Clinton was qualtitatively, if not quantitatively correct about the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy against President Clinton - it wasn’t especially “vast”, but it was indeed a real conspiracy. I remember just how angry that VRWC crap made me - those stupid lies about Clinton, how he murdered Vince Foster, etc. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But back during those time, I never envisioned that my own fellow Democrats would be engaged in just the same sort of thing, worse even. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stop spending your time and energy on your Vast Left Wing Conspiracy crap, and attend to real issues, like fixing the Medicare drug plan - dicking around about Libby and Plame etc is fantasy - fighting to fix a program that prohibits Medicare from negotiating drug prices is real-life.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a lifelong liberal Democrat, I’m amazed at what I’m reading here. What have you guys been smoking? You’re engaged in wild speculation and wishful thinking.</p>
<p>The whole Plame thing was a stupid, non-starter right from the beginning. Joe Wilson’s claims started to fall apart with the release of the 2002 NIE summary conclusions in July 2003. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2004 and the Robb-Silberman report in 2005 pretty much put him in the doghouse. </p>
<p>As for Ms. Plame &#8211; you can’t be a covert operative and commute to the CIA Headquarters ever day for years. </p>
<p>I predict that the Libby trial will end quickly once it gets into court, with either the judge throwing it out or a quick aquittal for Libby &#8211; it’s such a non-existant case. </p>
<p>Hillary Clinton was qualtitatively, if not quantitatively correct about the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy against President Clinton &#8211; it wasn’t especially “vast”, but it was indeed a real conspiracy. I remember just how angry that VRWC crap made me &#8211; those stupid lies about Clinton, how he murdered Vince Foster, etc. </p>
<p>But back during those time, I never envisioned that my own fellow Democrats would be engaged in just the same sort of thing, worse even. </p>
<p>Stop spending your time and energy on your Vast Left Wing Conspiracy crap, and attend to real issues, like fixing the Medicare drug plan &#8211; dicking around about Libby and Plame etc is fantasy &#8211; fighting to fix a program that prohibits Medicare from negotiating drug prices is real-life.</p>
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		<title>By: The Tattered Coat &#187; Serenity Now</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140720</link>
		<dc:creator>The Tattered Coat &#187; Serenity Now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140720</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[…] But, as Christy at FireDogLake reminds us, a prosecutor can only go forward with the evidence he has, and he didn’t have enough to make a case. It’s hard to believe that Rove didn’t lie even once during all those hours of testifying and cross-examination, but that’s why he’s such a good villain — he forces you to admire his skill even as he sinks lower and lower in your estimation. […]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] But, as Christy at FireDogLake reminds us, a prosecutor can only go forward with the evidence he has, and he didn’t have enough to make a case. It’s hard to believe that Rove didn’t lie even once during all those hours of testifying and cross-examination, but that’s why he’s such a good villain — he forces you to admire his skill even as he sinks lower and lower in your estimation. […]</p>
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		<title>By: KingCranky</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140640</link>
		<dc:creator>KingCranky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140640</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Politically and psychologically, clearing Rove is huge. At minimum, it frees the Rovemeister to kick more Democrat ass in the fall.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah, Rove’s been doing such a great job since the SOTU 2005 speech, in fact, he’s done SUCH a bangup job that W’s base is now tearing into itself on a daily basis, most notably on immigration&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Try again lil’ trooper of the 29% brigade&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And make sure all those insurgents, militias, terrorists in training and death squads in Iraq get the memo about how big a deal Benedict Rove’s nonindictment is, as it appears they haven’t gotten that message yet&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW-if things are all so hunky dory in Iraq, when will we see W or any of his rapidly dwindling number of starry-eyed true W believers wander around in Baghdad, outside the Green Zone, lightly armed &amp; unguarded?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh that’s right, ChickenHawks NEVER would put their money where their mouth is, they would NEVER physically support the same war they think is great when others fight it&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just an unpleasant reality of being a W troll, the whole ChickenHawk thing that they cona’t logically spin in a positive way&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politically and psychologically, clearing Rove is huge. At minimum, it frees the Rovemeister to kick more Democrat ass in the fall.</p>
<p>Yeah, Rove’s been doing such a great job since the SOTU 2005 speech, in fact, he’s done SUCH a bangup job that W’s base is now tearing into itself on a daily basis, most notably on immigration</p>
<p>Try again lil’ trooper of the 29% brigade</p>
<p>And make sure all those insurgents, militias, terrorists in training and death squads in Iraq get the memo about how big a deal Benedict Rove’s nonindictment is, as it appears they haven’t gotten that message yet</p>
<p>BTW-if things are all so hunky dory in Iraq, when will we see W or any of his rapidly dwindling number of starry-eyed true W believers wander around in Baghdad, outside the Green Zone, lightly armed &amp; unguarded?</p>
<p>Oh that’s right, ChickenHawks NEVER would put their money where their mouth is, they would NEVER physically support the same war they think is great when others fight it</p>
<p>Just an unpleasant reality of being a W troll, the whole ChickenHawk thing that they cona’t logically spin in a positive way</p>
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		<title>By: queridobobo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140631</link>
		<dc:creator>queridobobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140631</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christ.  I’ve learned one thing from all the gloating today - Republicans &lt;b&gt;are&lt;/b&gt; all essentially, at their emotional core, Cartman.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christ.  I’ve learned one thing from all the gloating today &#8211; Republicans <b>are</b> all essentially, at their emotional core, Cartman.</p>
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		<title>By: Lobstergirl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140577</link>
		<dc:creator>Lobstergirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140577</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christy - actually Toni Locy is a woman.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christy &#8211; actually Toni Locy is a woman.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Russell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140483</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/13/dodging-cipa-graymail-bulletsand-other-legal-notes/#comment-140483</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wonder if Sunny is right?  I also feel that Rover being indicted would have been a lot more effective and disagree with Phoenix woman (#43).  Cheney’s legacy is set and Rover seems completely free to slime his way out of a Democratic Majority in either branch of  CONgress.  Expect more “swift boating” and more examples of what was orchestrated against Max Cleland.  Colleenmiltarymom (#48) is right on the money with that.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Sunny is right, then what’s to stop the quashing of an indictment against Noe, Doolittle, Lewis, etc?   After all, the lead prosecutor in the Public Integrity section was taken out by being given a judgeship.  I also agree with Sunny’s #103 in that his life would be over and Slothrop #121 %u2013 No prison isn’t the worst thing that could happen to Rove.  Remember, Rove also has a family to worry about.  Now, if they can fix 2 Nationwide Elections, then they can certainly fix anything that is under any of their cabinets%u2014especially under Abu Gonzales.  That isn’t to say they are good at anything beyond slime and defend.  Speaking of which, I just heard Rush’s former girl friend (Kagan) say “we still don’t know if a crime was committed”.  Expect to hear that talking point pushed real hard by GOP TV (Faux, MSNBC, CNN, etc).  If this were a democrat, they’d be asking why the SOB wasn’t indicted for treason and Kagan would be screaming this as loud as she could get away with.  Aside from tactics that the press would shred Democrats for, they also have Diebold, etc to fix elections as they have 3 times now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wanted Rover to go down so much more than Cheney.  I know that Cheney is bigger fish, but Rove being indicted brings Bush down another Peg and also lobotomizes Bush.  Cheney being indicted does nothing, as his ratings are lower than Bush’s.  In fact, Cheney being thrown overboard almost seems to be something right out of Rove’s playbook.   Speaking of Rovian tactics, we have Slime ball #81, who should go back to Free Republic.  Again, speaking of slime–needless to say, the NRO is now blasting Fitz for the 8 months Karl’s been under investigation, although they cheered Ken Starr.  CNN’s Kira Phillips is proclaiming “Rove’s innocence” and saying that today is a good day for the Bush administration.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Agoraphobos #83, I’d have traded Lay and Skilling for Rover.  The public had already (correctly) judged these clowns for all time anyway and we got less than nothing for them.  They were sacrificial lambs to say that Justice does exist.  I agree that they will spin the corruption away from them and have the press focus on Jefferson%u2014who should resign.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;After going through the entire comments section, I hope I haven’t done #183, even though I agree with the sentiment.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Like “Cancer Cures” (#71) says, “If Rove is let free, people will be frustrated that these crooks got away with another huge crime.”  There’s an old black saying that really applies here:  “There is Justice and there is just us”.  Um%u2026Clem #109 is so on the money, as is Bill R (#135).  Oh and Tank, there won’t be anything newsworthy in a civil suit before November.  Even if it were news now, it could easily be delayed till Jan 07.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Finally, I wonder where I’ve gotten reading everything I could on anything Plame related for the last few months.  Yea, I know more than the average MSM only consumer%u2014but to what end?  I had to scramble just to be up to speed on local elections because I focused so much on National events.  I am also looking at everything else in life that I’ve let slide, while I kept reading things that right now, don’t seem to matter.  Color me disgusted, as Bush is again shown on all stations addressing a closely screened group of the troops and playing the “some people forget” (9/11 routine).  Does anyone wonder why the bulk of America is tuning out?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then again, everyone has probably moved on to a new thread, while I was concentrating on reading what everyone here had to say.  There’s just too much for anyone to focus on…trying to stay informed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if Sunny is right?  I also feel that Rover being indicted would have been a lot more effective and disagree with Phoenix woman (#43).  Cheney’s legacy is set and Rover seems completely free to slime his way out of a Democratic Majority in either branch of  CONgress.  Expect more “swift boating” and more examples of what was orchestrated against Max Cleland.  Colleenmiltarymom (#48) is right on the money with that.  </p>
<p>If Sunny is right, then what’s to stop the quashing of an indictment against Noe, Doolittle, Lewis, etc?   After all, the lead prosecutor in the Public Integrity section was taken out by being given a judgeship.  I also agree with Sunny’s #103 in that his life would be over and Slothrop #121 %u2013 No prison isn’t the worst thing that could happen to Rove.  Remember, Rove also has a family to worry about.  Now, if they can fix 2 Nationwide Elections, then they can certainly fix anything that is under any of their cabinets%u2014especially under Abu Gonzales.  That isn’t to say they are good at anything beyond slime and defend.  Speaking of which, I just heard Rush’s former girl friend (Kagan) say “we still don’t know if a crime was committed”.  Expect to hear that talking point pushed real hard by GOP TV (Faux, MSNBC, CNN, etc).  If this were a democrat, they’d be asking why the SOB wasn’t indicted for treason and Kagan would be screaming this as loud as she could get away with.  Aside from tactics that the press would shred Democrats for, they also have Diebold, etc to fix elections as they have 3 times now.</p>
<p>I wanted Rover to go down so much more than Cheney.  I know that Cheney is bigger fish, but Rove being indicted brings Bush down another Peg and also lobotomizes Bush.  Cheney being indicted does nothing, as his ratings are lower than Bush’s.  In fact, Cheney being thrown overboard almost seems to be something right out of Rove’s playbook.   Speaking of Rovian tactics, we have Slime ball #81, who should go back to Free Republic.  Again, speaking of slime–needless to say, the NRO is now blasting Fitz for the 8 months Karl’s been under investigation, although they cheered Ken Starr.  CNN’s Kira Phillips is proclaiming “Rove’s innocence” and saying that today is a good day for the Bush administration.</p>
<p>Agoraphobos #83, I’d have traded Lay and Skilling for Rover.  The public had already (correctly) judged these clowns for all time anyway and we got less than nothing for them.  They were sacrificial lambs to say that Justice does exist.  I agree that they will spin the corruption away from them and have the press focus on Jefferson%u2014who should resign.</p>
<p>After going through the entire comments section, I hope I haven’t done #183, even though I agree with the sentiment.  </p>
<p>Like “Cancer Cures” (#71) says, “If Rove is let free, people will be frustrated that these crooks got away with another huge crime.”  There’s an old black saying that really applies here:  “There is Justice and there is just us”.  Um%u2026Clem #109 is so on the money, as is Bill R (#135).  Oh and Tank, there won’t be anything newsworthy in a civil suit before November.  Even if it were news now, it could easily be delayed till Jan 07.  </p>
<p>Finally, I wonder where I’ve gotten reading everything I could on anything Plame related for the last few months.  Yea, I know more than the average MSM only consumer%u2014but to what end?  I had to scramble just to be up to speed on local elections because I focused so much on National events.  I am also looking at everything else in life that I’ve let slide, while I kept reading things that right now, don’t seem to matter.  Color me disgusted, as Bush is again shown on all stations addressing a closely screened group of the troops and playing the “some people forget” (9/11 routine).  Does anyone wonder why the bulk of America is tuning out?  </p>
<p>Then again, everyone has probably moved on to a new thread, while I was concentrating on reading what everyone here had to say.  There’s just too much for anyone to focus on…trying to stay informed.</p>
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