
I’ve been a bit busy the last few days (and still am, as well as being exhausted and missing my peanut…again), but after taking some time to do a brief roundabout on the legal news of the last coupla days, I am compelled to jot a few notes on the doings in a few courtrooms.
First, the NYTimes article from David Johnston this morning. (And a hat tip to Holden for the heads up on the article.) If Luskin is coming out and saying publicly that they got a letter from Pat Fitzgerald which says that Rove will not be charged, there are two things that I want to see and know: (1) what does the letter actually say, word for word; and (2) does it say something along the lines of "Please thank Karl for his cooperation in this matter."
Johnston has always seemed to have good sources within the Luskin/Rove camp (although, frankly, who didn’t last year when Luskin may have called every reporter in the universe). So it’s not surprising that Luskin would pick the NYTimes as his outlet for announcing news of a letter freeing-up Rove (if, indeed, that is what it fully does…although, I have to say, in all honesty, as an attorney you would never make an announcement like this without something in hand from the prosecutor which purports to say this — you’d never be taken seriously in any other case otherwise…).
Here’s what the article does say:
The prosecutor in the C.I.A. leak case on Monday advised Karl Rove, the senior White House adviser, that he would not be charged with any wrongdoing, effectively ending the nearly three-year criminal investigation that had at times focused intensely on Mr. Rove.
The decision by the prosecutor, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, announced in a letter to Mr. Rove’s lawyer, Robert D. Luskin, lifted a pall that had hung over Mr. Rove who testified on five occasions to a federal grand jury about his involvement in the disclosure of an intelligence officer’s identity.
In a statement, Mr. Luskin said, "On June 12, 2006, Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald formally advised us that he does not anticipate seeking charges against Karl Rove."
Well, that’s a bit of overhype, frankly. Rove was not the only person that Fitzgerald was looking at in the grand scheme of this investigation. And to spin this as the case being over is laziness on the part of David Johnston — and the media writ large, frankly — who have never dug into this case to realize that the players were larger than the Libby and Rove narrative frame that the corporate media types have conveniently used throughout the investigation. And that the be all and end all of the case was not the ultimate criminal charges, but the exposure of the smarmy underbelly of the Bush Administration and their standard MO of attacking, with a vengeance, anyone who dares to question them — even when those questions are not only appropriate but also expose them in a lie.
I’ve said this before, and I will say it again: unless and until I hear it from Patrick Fitzgerald, the investigation continues to be ongoing. Which means that there are still potential developments down the road, should the evidence (like handwritten marching orders on the Wilson op-ed in Dick Cheney’s handwriting) lead there.
And I’ve also said this, and it is worth a reminder: Patrick Fitzgerald and his team are career professionals. You do not charge someone with a criminal indictment merely because they are scum. You have to have the evidence to back up any charges — not just that may indicate that something may have happened, but you must have evidence that criminal conduct occurred and that you can prove it. You charge the evidence you have, you try the case you can make, and you don’t go down a road that will ultimately be a waste of the public’s money and time once you have ascertained that the case is simply not there. It doesn’t mean that you don’t think the SOB that you can’t charge isn’t a weasel or guilty as hell, it just means that you can’t prove it. (And, fwiw, those times are the worst of your career, because you truly hate to let someone go when you know in your gut they’ve done something wrong.)
Jeralyn has been saying all along that she thinks that Rove cut some sort of cooperation deal. I really want to see whatever wording was in (Luskin’s words) the letter from Fitzgerald before I get too far down this road on the what’s going on speculation. And I’m hoping that some enterprising reporter…cough…Murray…cough…will get the scoop on just what IS going on with all of this.
In his statement Mr. Luskin said he would not address other legal questions surrounding Mr. Fitzgerald’s decision. He added, "In deference to the pending case, we will not make any further public statements about the subject matter of the investigation. We believe that the Special Counsel’s decision should put an end to the baseless speculation about Mr. Rove’s conduct."
But it was evident that Mr. Fitzgerald’s decision followed an exhaustive inquiry into Mr. Rove’s activities that had brought the political strategist dangerously close to possible charges. In October, when Mr. Libby was indicted, people close to Mr. Rove had suggested that his involvement in the case would soon be over; speculation about Mr. Rove’s legal situation flared again in April when he made his fifth appearance before the grand jury.
Hmmm…interesting that Luskin, who has blathered about town about every hangnail that he’s ever witnessed on any person involved in this matter suddenly clams up, isn’t it? And that he mentions the ongoing investigation…and that he limits his comment on speculation to Rove and Rove alone. (Although, he is Rove’s paid attorney, so that does make sense in a "you pay my hourly rate and the other guys don’t" sort of way.)
Here’s what I do know: Karl Rove has been moved out of his palatial White House digs into a smaller, windowless room across the hall. Joshua Bolten has been wielding more and more influence with Bush of late, and Rove has slunk back into the background for the moment. In DC, loss of power and influence — even if it is only the perception of it — can be a painful thing. But for Rove, the most painful thing of all would be for the Democrats to re-take Congress. Guess what I’m going to be working on for the next few months? Help me mete out a little justice in the form of a Democratic victory this fall, won’t you?
And Dick Cheney? Well, his worst nightmare is anyone finding out about what he has been doing the last five years, hence all the secrecy and the selective classification and such. Won’t his time on the witness stand be precious? And wouldn’t he just looooove a Democratically-controlled House and Senate? Oh, if ever there were incentive to work your ass off for the Democratic candidate of your choice, this is it.
(And, yes, I will be working sources on this to see what I can find out. In the meantime, take a little while and think about what you can do to help the Dems re-take Congress. It’s a proactive step that all of us can take to give Karl and Dick and George and their posse of malignant cronies a nasty case of heartburn…)
On another front, Pat Fitzgerald and Team Libby (or Team Irving, as looseheadprop so lovingly named it) had another status conference in front of Judge Walton yesterday. The news pickings are sparse — with only an AP article to go on at the time of this writing, and no transcript for the forseeable future (since court reporters have lives and I’m not forking over a bazillion dollars for an expedited copy…). I will, of course, update this when I get more information, but the read on the AP article looks pretty reasonable.
Here is why I say that:
The special prosecutor in the CIA leak investigation said Monday he doesn’t expect the White House to attempt to block Vice President Dick Cheney’s former top aide from using classified intelligence material in his defense to perjury charges.
Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald told U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton that the White House has designated certain documents that it is concerned about being made public during a trial.
If those documents are among those that I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby wants to prepare his defense, Fitzgerald said, he and Libby’s lawyers will work out solutions with the judge in secret under a law designed to deal with defendants’ access to classified government information.
It seems that Fitz and John Cline, the Team Libby graymail legal expert, have already identified and narrowed some of the issues that are likely to be controversial for the White House in terms of classified information. And it sounds to me from the quotes that Tony Loci has put into his AP article, that Fitz and his team have already formulated some strategy to end-run a number of these problems in some fashion, so that the potential disputes between the two sides are narrower still.
We’ve known all along that the multiple requests for Presidential Daily Briefings (PDBs) were going to be not only controversial and unprecedented, but also a hot spot for potential graymail defense arguments. That these seem to have been undercut substantially by the summaries thereof (and good on Judge Walton for that stroke of genius) makes the remaining issues a bit easier to dispose of one at a time. (For those catching up on this case, I did a review of graymail and CIPA issues here.)
Some news in the article on a couple of fronts other than the CIPA/graymail issues. For starters, Fitzgerald has informed the WH of his proposed witness list and said the following:
Fitzgerald also said he doesn’t anticipate any fights with the White House over witnesses he plans to call at Libby’s trial in January. Fitzgerald has indicated that he might call witnesses ranging from Cheney to former White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer and former State Department official Marc Grossman.
“The White House is aware of the witnesses we intend to call … and the subject areas,” the prosecutor told Walton. “This is not a crisis that is looming. I want to assure you of that.”
One has to wonder if the WH has said that Cheney will be expected to testify if subponaed. And, if so, one has to wonder further what Cheney thinks about that…and wouldn’t that have been a fun conversation to watch as Bush, Bolten, Cheney and Addington discussed whose political future and legacy was the more important one to protect in the grand scheme of things if, indeed, Cheney is on "the list."
Also, Team Libby may be wavering on the memory defense now. And it was already looking fuzzy before we even got to this point. Buried at the bottom of the AP article was this snippet:
Cline also told Walton the defense has not yet decided whether it will call an expert on memory to testify at trial.
A key to Libby’s defense is whether a jury should believe what NBC’s Tim Russert, Time magazines’s Matthew Cooper and former New York Times reporter Judith Miller remember about their conversations with Libby – or what Libby recalls telling them.
Perhaps Team Libby has been testing the theory on mock juries and found it wanting. Or perhaps Cline just got the full peek at all of the various means that Libby was using to track each and every thing that Joe Wilson said and did, and the means used to dig into Amb. Wilson’s background…and his wife’s as well.
I’d sure like to see what Fitz has but, if Team Libby is indeed wavering, it ought to be an awfully interesting trial. On to Libby Defense Theory 3.0 anyone?
In another case entirely, but one that I wanted to note because it is on an important set of issues, a federal appeals panel in Manhattan sharply quizzed lawyers for the CIA about their withholding of documents pertaining to authority given to the Agency to interrogate "detainees" in the aftermath of 9/11. The questions pertained to whether the government was using a "government secrets" designation for the information not so much to protect national security, but instead to cover their own asses and the asses all the way to the Oval Office, potentially.
In an Administration where secrecy has become the standard mode of operation, avoidance of political embarassment should never, ever be allowed as the motivation for governmental secrecy. There must be a compelling national interest to counterbalance the public’s right to sunshine in the dark nooks and crannies which are in sore need of oversight. But that accountability has been stymied again and again by selective classification.
This case bears watching…especially given that all of us, every single citizen in this nation of ours, is responsible for actions taken in our name. As such, we have a right to know if our government is taking actions which we would neither approve nor condone. And the Bush Administration has no right to maneuver the laws in order to play CYA because they got caught with their hands in the torture jar. Good for the appeals court for taking an interest in this.



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fitz
And, if this does “clear” Rove, in a legal sense, might we infer that Rove has given up information implicating someone bigger?
It strikes me as odd that Fitzgerald would just give up the threat of legal jeopardy as leverage against Rove, to keep the pressure on him and others under investigation.
Patrick Fitzgerald !
R O O T Z ! ! !
what a bummer
think progress says rove will not be prosecuted
these are comforting words but I still can’t cope…
oops, I see that’s already commented on in the ofiginal column…I headed to comments first
silly me
I’ve said this before, and I will say it again: unless and until I hear it from Patrick Fitzgerald, the investigation continues to be ongoing. Which means that there are still potential developments down the road, should the evidence (like handwritten marching orders on the Wilson op-ed in Dick Cheney’s handwriting) lead there.
Exactly. How many times has Gold Bars lied to the press in the past? Gazillions.
And as Jeralyn and you note, all this probably means is that in the war between Rove and Cheney to see who can throw the other under Fitz’ bus, Rove most likely has the upper hand.
WFT ?
Why would Fitz not make the announcement ?
We need to find out what the details are…
I guess David Shuster’s “tea leaves” were wrong and I won’t even bother to mention Leopold.
Trying not to lose hope, but so far not working. I know that the work done at YearlyKos will be invaluable to all of us ‘down the road.’ And that the work, despite what happens this November, MUST continue. And I hope Busby runs again in November. We must keep after them.
but what this does do is allow Rove full freedom to campaign in his most nasty fullsomeness. And we should be watching the ’silver forks and spoons’ (votes) very carefully.
loosetoth: very funny “fitz”
I suppose I should have read the full article before posting.
Sorry for asking questions you’ve already answered…
Yeah, that’s really what depresses me the most — if Rove has slimed his way out of this, he’s going to be strutting around gloating and, more to the point, carrying on campaigning. Oh God, how I detest these vile people.
I agree with GrandmaJ–I worry that escaping this indictment will give Rove a feeling of invincibility and make him bolder still…
I’m hoping that Rover rolled over on Cheney. Wonder how Scooter Libby feels now that he’s all alone holding the bag?
I’m just now reading this and am freaking out because I have to walk out the door now and go to work. I can’t believe that Fitz doesn’t have the dope on this guy. Even if he sang like a canary, which I totally doubt, does that get him off scott free from all the laws he’s broken. I’m speechless.
Well, I look forward to getting back with everyone this afternoon. I’m sure all of you will have a lot to say. I just hope the servers hold up! My heart hurts.
Ah, perspective and hope! That’s exactly what I needed on this dour morning Christy.
Faux News has been crowing about this all morning; it’s sickening.
So Fitz is just clearing the deck so he can get to the REAL indictments, right?
…right? Please?
It is as expected — Rove has cut a deal. I am very surprised Luskin used the “will not seek charges” against rather than the “will not seek any conviction/indictment” against. My guess is that there is some charge (maybe a misdemeanor?) already hanging over Rove. OR, there is a threat of serious indictment if he does not continue to cooperate. It is the only way to keep him on the leash. Unless, of course he is utterly innocent :~)
I would not get my hopes up about “bigger” fish (aka Cheney) but I would certainly expect others (Addington) to be feeling a bit of heat now.
Finally — I like Luskin’s over-the-top complaints about speculation etc.
Call the effin’ Waahmbulance! I mean who encouraged speculation All. The. Time(s).
I read this before commenting….first of all , FITZ!
Second, aren’t we trying to get justice on the Plame case? Lessee, the only thing we got going is a perjury and obstruction charge. This is very important. It will soon become apparent to Libby, his goose is cooked.
Libby then becomes the John Dean of this scandal and begins to drop dime on his boys.
Why will this happen? Because the Dems will ( and need to) take over congress after the elections. This will give subpeona power. Bushco has committed many crimes and misdemeanors in office. A good many of them rising to Impeachable status. The CIA leak case can be examined by the Judiciary or Itelligence Commitees (with subpeona power).
THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!
Help me, Help US regain Washington. The stench is really bad and electing the Dems wont make it smell any better, but the hope for democracy lies in their hands.
I’d like to ask Christy – what’s your reaction to the “Sealed vs. Sealed” case rumor?
Thank you Phoenix Woman @ #8. You took the letters right out of my fingers.
We have no information from any source other than Luskin. None. Are you willing to believe him outright? With no supporting evidence? None whatsoever?
Sure the statements may be true, but they could also be VERY selective about what facts are being revealed. Until the letter is provided (yeah right) or we can get confirmation of the specifics of this letter from someone other than Luskin, we’re basing everything on the statements of a lawyer for a spin-master.
I know it’s not good to speculate too much right now, and it may just be my way of coping, but:
I have a lovely mental image of Rove wearing a wire….
Would it suit Fitzgerald’s purpose (if indeed he’s going after bigger fish) to have the media trumpet “Rove is off the hook” so that those bigger fish get complacent?
Jerry at 21 — I’ve answered that question about a bazillion times, but here goes again: there are any number of reasons that a case gets sealed. Ongoing drug conspiracy prosecution. In the DC Circuit, a lot of cases deal with national security and other matters. Until it is unsealed, it is useless to speculate…and I haven’t seen anything that leads me to say otherwise. My tip to everyone is to read everything with a large grain of salt. And I mean everything.
back to the Sealed vs Sealed indictment — perhaps that is Fitz’s ace-up-the-sleeve on Rove? Perhaps Rove has already been indicted but it will be dropped if Rove cooperates against Cheney? Perhaps the Fitz letter to Luskin means he will not seek further charges against Rove beyond those in the sealed indictment??
Yesterday was my birthday and this was NOT what I wanted for a present!!!! But can I have Cheney w/ ribbins and bows? :)
Christy, thank you again for all you do for your many readers
OT answer to Anne’s 200, last thread:
Morning, Anne. No, I’m on the Atlantic (barely NE of Orlando), and it’s the Big Bend (where Florida’s flaccid peninsula joins the continent, that’s in trouble this morning). A very shallow shelf extends far out into the Gulf over there, making storm-surge an issue for them every time (since wind-bulged water has to go somewhere).
Wonderful rains here yesterday and last night, and I woke to a sound I’ve missed for months: a tree-frog chorus! Best of all, this put a stop to fire season, so I can haul my photos and docs out of those garbage bags piled by my front door, put the cats’ carriers back where they belong, and get on with it.
Savannah and Charleston getting a shock this mawnin’, though. Ooowee.
Mrs. K8. I was thinking the same thing without the wire part. Though the wire makes sense. Dunno. Sounds good, but could be completely out of left field. Man, would I want to hear those tapes though. Wow.
Not knowing what’s really going on is just torture. Ultimately though, the point is that the investigation is ongoing. From what we DO know, it seems Cheney is in Fitz’s crosshairs. Though Rove going down would be sweet, it’s more important for Cheney to be dealt with.
If it’s a Rove versus Cheney thing, then this means Cheney’s going down.
OT–I live in VA–is everyone on board with me voting for Jim Webb in today’s Democratic primary. My Mom sent me a Kos diary denouncing him but Webb has spoken out against Bush and the war and he would be our best shot at defeating George “stupidest man in the Senate” Allen.
The NYT article shows a 5:30 am stamp, Luskin got Fitz’s letter yesterday, nothing on the evening news hour last night … which I would have assumed the better venue for Luskin. Just thinkin …
I hope you guys get good turnout up there in VA. Another important race.
i do think the johnston line about effectively ending the investigation is premature. as christy noted, i’ll wait for fitzgerald to declare that before i buy it. rove is the holy grail (to some) but there may be others.
even if there aren’t it still shows the range of slimy actions these vengeful little minds are willing to take. and cheer up. even if rove had been indicted and convicted, you know the prez would have pardoned him anyway, just like daddy.
If it’s a Rove versus Cheney thing, then this means Cheney’s going down.
I have to disagree. Rove is a minion compared to Cheney, who has entrenched power in extremely elite circles; these people don’t play around,and will not suffer disloyalty from their “retainers” and will not hesitate to destroy anyone as should be patently obvious by now.
The indictments have been QUASHED.
I’m not disappointed at all. I have not been hanging any expectations on the CIA Leak Case.
I have been hoping in all of you. Fitz is a good man. Roots are more powerful. Fitz’s actions are not in our control. Our actions are.
I saw a quickie TV debate with the VA Democratic Senatorial candidates. Webb still supports “Dont ask, dont tell” — his opponent doesnt.
I can’t describe my disappointment if Karl Rove is NOT charged. The only mitigating fact, for me, would be if he cut a deal. That man is evil.
Whatever it means, what it feels is painful…
Double Danm
Hey, I’ve been saying all along that this is now, and has been for the last year and a half or so, a battle between Rove’s camp and Cheney’s camp.
Here’s what I think has happened so far:
Cheney’s guy Libby fell, tried to take down Rove as a means of plea-bargaining his way out of an otherwise-assured prison sentence — and came damned near doing so (why else would Rove need to make five GJ appearances?). But Rove has at the last minute, to secure HIS freedom, promised Fitz to serve up Cheney.
Rove’s evil, but he’s not PNAC. Cheney is PNAC up to his eyeballs. I’ll gladly trade Rove to get Cheney.
So glad to have been @ yKos, and met so many FDLers.
I’m trying to be philosophical about the prospect of Rove getting a pass on this. I remember thinking during the Libby Indictment presser that whatever Pat Fitzgerald could prove was good enough for me. That now seems like a million years ago! Got ahead of myself.
Great observation, though, on Luskin suddenly clamming up… I guess the next thing to get revved up for is Cheney as a prosecution witness!
Christy – I posted this on the previous thread:
What is the likelihood that an agreement to cooperate would be confidential? Suppose Rove agreed to cooperate – could he do so only on the condition that his cooperation not be made public, knowing that by the time the investigation was complete and charges were filed against someone, and his help might have to be made public, that we’d be long past the mid-term elections?
Seems to me that if there is any possibility that the letter Luskin says he received from Fitzgerald contains any conditions or terms, we will never see that letter on the DoJ website, and Fitzgerald will not comment.
It may be more telling than not if Fitzgerald never speaks publicly about the letter.
Fitz’s actions are not in our control. Our actions are.
If that’s true, then why am I constantly going to the bathroom?
j/k…taking back the chambers should be our primary focus…agreed.
The sealed vs sealed bit is by Jason Leopold and can be found at TruthOut. Can you ’splain what it means, Lucy..er Christy?
To Mickey/40, I agree and would just add “excruciating” before the pain.
I was really hoping for Rove get indicted so that he could not focus on the election.
That is the real set back.
The New York Times lost any credibility it had during Judy Millers “era’. This strikes me as a rovian reverse Leopold manuever.A phoney headline. I’ll believe it when I hear it from Fitz.
I’ve DeNiro down for the Cheney role. It’ll be similar to his Al Capone creation.
Costener is probably too old to play Fitz. I’m liking Joaqin Phoenix as the Prosecutor.
Kevin Spacey as Scooter might work.
I don’t really see a romantic interest in this — I mean, who wants the Judy Miller part?
Sunny:
Has the grand jury been dismissed? No.
As Redd says, let’s wait for Fitz to actually do something before we take Gold Bars’ word at face value. And again, I suspect that what this really means is that Rove saved himself by offering up Cheney.
Yeah, FOX is crowing. So? Remember, FOX News thought that Zarqawi’s death would result in a Bush bounce, and, well, that’s not what happened.
“In a statement, Mr. Luskin said, “On June 12, 2006, Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald formally advised us that he does not anticipate seeking charges against Karl Rove.”
This does not say, “advised us that he will not seek charges against Karl Rove”
…I don’t anticipate being late, but you never know how the traffic is on the West Side Highway..
So I guess now we get to wait and see if Leopold lives up to his word and dishes sources.
Beyond a reasonable doubt, we can now say Jason Leopold and Truthout are liars and can be banished forever to Wayne Madsen-land.
There is no greater crime than giving false hope to a liberal.
Mr. Leopold, I renounce thee.
Christy,
Can you give us some perspective on the NSA court challenge that will be occurring today?
Bummer about Rover!
Obviously the wording of the letter is extremely important.
The phrase used above “does not anticipate indicting” is interesting to me. Some thoughts/questions:
1. It sounds like pro forma speech in a letter of this type, but I am not a lawyer, so perhaps someone more learned in that area (Christy?) could comment on this.
2. “Does not anticipate” is not the same as “will not.” While I would love to hold out hope for an indictment, I am not doing so in a meaningful way here.However…
3. The lack of absolutism of the statement not only retains the prosecutor’s power (i.e. he is not completely clearing the target) but also leaves me wondering if it is further evidence of a deal. Something like, “I don’t anticipate indicting if your client keeps his half of the bargain.”
Alas, all of this is mere speculation without the actual text of the letter published, but it does keep me wondering.
Mehlman is, of course, already on CNN spewing the talking points this morning. Barf.
Sunny:
Has the grand jury been dismissed? No.
No, but as Christy has explained many times, this is not a special Grand Jury, but one that is being used by all of the US attorneys in the DC circuit.
Tim Grieve from Salon’s War Room has been doing background research on the Sealed vs. Sealed question. He’s skeptical that it means anything.
He also has a very interesting interview with Harry Reid on Salon right now. Worth reading.
The indictments have been QUASHED.
Please back this statement up with a little more info. You keep saying this and we’ve seen ablsolutely no proof.
There’s more to this. Rover cut a deal of some sort. Like Christy asks about the letter…(2) does it say something along the lines of “Please thank Karl for his cooperation in this matter.”
Ned Lamont’s victory getting 33% in the state party convention was bigger than Fitzmas, as I told everyone at the time.
It may be worth revisiting that post:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..be-heroes/
thanks for blogging this christy. i just saw my first article about it online in the guardian…
i need to read all the comments to get up to speed…
fdl is the SHIZ!
Pachacutec – no need to revisit on my end. I recall the post very well (bows and scrapes!)
Laurence O’Donnell predicted that if Rove was not indicted, it would be because Viveca Novak told Luskin (over drinks) that the talk in the newsroom at Time Magazine was that Rove was one of Cooper’s sources. That led to Rove going back to the grand jury to “correct” his earlier testimony. It looks like O’Donnell had it right.
Can’t we ask Fitz to see this letter that “clears” Rove Fitz is working for us taxpayers and its hard to see how outing a letter clearing Rove would in any way hurt his case(s) or Rove’s rights. Quite frankly I think the letter is necesary for I doubt that even neocons think that Rove is innocent. His reputation such as it is could suffer damage!
the economy’s starting to slow down — proof is that violent crime has surged: it always does when things aren’t going well — also, look at the stock market, which will hoodwink investors with occasional & thus unexpected sharp rallies but which is headed much lower
democrats do better when the economy staggers: look at roosevelt in 1932, carter in 1976, clinton in 1992, election years that all came after the economy had hit the skids
i want the bad guys to go into slam but it really doesn’t matter — not even watergate mattered as much as the stock market crash of 1973/74 in setting the stage for carter to win
Christy
About that letter, somebody at dkos claims that NBC was reporting Luskin received a phone call. The washingtonpost doesn’t mention a letter either, just that Rove was formally advised by Fitzgerald.
You think this is just sloppy reporting from either NBC or NYT? And does it matter?
I love what you wrote about using this as vehicle to get the Democrats to take back the Senate and House. Well I just love anything you write, however that is a golden nugget.
For me, the handwriting was on the wall when it was announced that Rove was on the witness list against Libby. While it didn’t mean that Rove would not be charged, necessarily, it suggested, IMHO, that Fitzgerald did not want to get entangled with having named co-conspirators testify against one another.
Two other thoughts: while this is very disappointing (as I wanted to see that fat, dangerous fuck twisting in the wind), it will play into their hands should we, as individuals or collectively, become dispirited because of this. We need to take a deep collective breath and get back to the front-lines of re-taking Congress. Fitzgerald never promised us a rose garden (or THE Rose Garden for that matter) and to a LARGE extent the raucous expectations of Fitzmas were entirely generated within the community. We have to realize that and keep moving on. This is a good lesson concerning wishful thinking.
Also, I don’t think that this is the end of the investigation. Of course, I don’t know one way or the other so its rank speculation on my part BUT it feels as if Fitzgerald has some other cards to play. Maybe yes, maybe no. If no…it’s back to the hard work of creating a Dem Congress. It would be great to get some help from Fitzgerald but if not…we must still proceed with the work at hand.
I dont’ have any proof that the indictments have been quashed. But I can add it all up. Leopolds article, a Sealed v. Sealed on the same day Fitz met personally with the GJ, and now Luskin spinning “does not anticipate seeking charges.” Why could Luskin not have just said that Fitz has cleared his client of any wrongdoing?
Yeah, I read about it in the Guardian and came straignt here to get the “scoop.” :)
Remember that if Rove is not indicted, the real leaker is still in the White House.
That can be used against the Republicans during the elections. IF Rove was indicted, then the Republicans could have done what Reagan did – paint it as if the corrupt pieces of the administration had been taken care of.
But if Rove is cleared..Then the ouster is still in the White House. It’s nothing like the OJ Simpson trial, but seriously, I think people wanted justice to be served in this case. If Rove is let free, people will be frustrated that these crooks got away with another huge crime.
That’s just my amateur analysis. Riding on lots of optimism, of course.
Fitz doesn’t strike me as the sneaky type. I’m not expecting any O Henry-type plot twists. Therefore, I choose to be majorly bummed until informed otherwise.
Oh, and for any TV movie, I vote that Fitzy be played by Michael Moriarty, and no other. Moriarty already has four years of Law and Order; it would be a cakewalk for him.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=…..006Z.shtml Rove lied 9 times&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3
Take a look at this. Is it just bad, unsourced reporting? Have you read this before? I saw this and felt assurred of charges being imminent. Wha’ appened?
I was awake listening to Air America at 5:30 – Ugh! I have waited for the opposite for so long that I thought I was dreaming for a minute. I’m depressed. We know Rove and his tricks. Why does he keep getting away with this stuff?
The Prez will keep him, eh?
OT: CNN had a quick shot of Bush et al at Camp David — Cheney was standing at the end of a row of folk and he looked dishevelled, bloated and sick. It was just a quick image but Cheney’s condition was so obvious…
Never pay any attention to the lawyers. It’s all spin.
And as I’ve said before the real target is Cheney.
CNN reports Reuters says the Preznit has flown to Iraq ! Today was supposed to be the day he was going to videoconference with the “Iraqi cabinet” — I guess he wanted the photo op of him doing it in person…
At this point, I’m going to place a tentative claim on the prize for the “guess who will be indicited, and # of indictments”. It appears I got it close to right but I’m certainly willing to wait a couple of months so all the details can be verified.
It does kinda put the final nail in Leopold’s coffin though.
“Ye shall know the truth.
And the truth shall make you mad.”
– Oscar Wilde
I live in Northern Virginia, and voter turnout is crummy in my precinct and in another I visited. I voted at 8:00 a.m., and I was No. 20 to vote. I am now working in building that houses another voting place, and at 9:00, they had only 17 votes.
I have mixed feelings about Jim Webb. I have to agree that he probably has the best chance to beat George Allen. However, he’s a DINO; another Joe Lieberman. He’s opposed to the war, but apparently,in every other way, he’s a Republican. So, what good is he going to do us in Congress?
I voted for Harris Miller. He probably won’t win, but I voted my conscience this time.
BOY, am I salivating for Murray W’s next piece(s).
May he be on the track of whatever’s making Shooter green around the gills this morning, thankyajesus!
MSNBC reporting that Luskin got a phone call from Fitz last night around 9 pm. Nothing about a letter. Hard to know what that means.
WAY too much to catch up on on these threads. Spend a day on airplanes and the threads bury you.
On another note, YKos was featured on Countdown last night. I am still in a daze over it all. Will need lots of time to assimilate it all.
In the indictments/convictions game, you win some, you lose some. Just think about Libby, Abramoff, Delay, Lay, and Skilling. Big conservative fish. They’re crooks. And the Plame affair isn’t over.
We just have to watch the Republican spin on this, because it’ll become the media’s take on it too. Their spin will be, Rove didn’t get indicted, he’s clean, the whole affair is over, we’re not corrupt, now we’re the ones who can be entrusted with power in this country because we’re clean. And Rove will definitely have the chutzpah to be out on the campaign circuit talking about how Republicans are virtuous and clean and the Democrats are a bunch of lying crooks.
We can’t let the corruption ball be dropped just because Rove walks. We can’t let the subject be changed or it be twisted around to show that the Democrats are the corrupt party.
Thanks, Christy, for excelent analysis as always. Even if the investigation is over (& let’s hope it’s not), the Libby trial will be extremely interesting.
I find an interesting tidbit from The Daily Muck this morning. TPMMuckRaker reports (from RollCall) that Rep. Jerry Lewis has lawered up (in the ongoing Duke Cunningham scandal), and:
Boy, she gets around handling press inquiries. Any similarities to the problems Lewis faces and those of Libby?
TROLL
Rove may have been publicly demoted and moved across the hall into less pretigious office space, but he is reported to be still sitting in on policy meetings.
Anne at 44 (and Jeralyn) are right I think: The language used by Luskin strongly suggests that Rove got immunity in exchange for his cooperation (it is probably the same deal I have been suggesting was offered to Novak way back when. . . )Otherwise he never would have testified in the Grand Jury to begin with.
“Does not anticipate seeking charges” means that if Rove testifies at Libby’s trial as expected, and as his agreement no doubt provides for him to testify, (lawyers call it providing “ongoing cooperation”), then all will be well for him. But if he “goes sideways” on Fitz and testifies differently from what is now expected, he could be charged–w/perjury certainly, and his deal to avoid criminal liability in the larger conspiracy could be “off” as he could face charges in that as well.
All told, a very standard deal and not unexpected. The more interesting issue and the reason for optimism now is that he couldn’t have gotten such a deal without having something important to offer Fitz. The “no prosecution” letter pretty much guarantees that he that he made a good deal. Either he offered up Cheney himself, or he offered up Libby to guarantee a conviction so Fitz can roll up Libby to Cheney. Either way, for me, I see Cheney going down and that’s something I can live with!
Sooo … Fitzmas will fall in the usual season, winter, after all. Only this time, ’twill start around about the Feast of the Epiphany and roll on from there . . .
I still want to know who Woodward’s source was and where that identity could lead…
If Rove has gotten immunity, then Scooter must be rethinking his position too. Maybe Scooter will cut a deal now.
:(
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042006Z.shtml
Oops… my original post showed the cache copy, but I just found this one.
This is G o o g l e’s cache of
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042006Z.shtml as retrieved on Jun 8, 2006 03:38:49 GMT.
G o o g l e’s cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current page without highlighting.
This cached page may reference images which are no longer available. Click here for the cached text only.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.com/search?q…..006Z.shtml Rove lied 9 times&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3
Question: If he is cooperating then would the lies be forgiven if he came up with the Cheney/Scooter goods?
Re: phone call
IIRC, Christy said duuring the Plame Panel at YKos that the ethical prosecutor makes a phone call at the very moment he concludes a potential suspect is free and clear, so as not to keep anyone who is presumed innocent twisting in the wind. The letter will no doubt be delivered (probably by currier) today.
That’s what the phone call means. In my mind, Rove is either totally clear or has cut a fat cooperation deal, or both. But it still does not matter.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..be-heroes/
OT
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters…..-bush.html
W in Iraq
When the time comes to vote Leader of the Senate…..
The point with Lieberman is that there’s a good chance he’ll be replaced by a much better (in every way) senator.
Thanks, Christy, for responding so quickly to the news about Rove. I would be more depressed without your analysis, but I know I can count on your acumen and reasoning to keep it in perspective.
You have documented that Patrick Fitzgerald is extremely thorough, so I think he will ultimately forge a bullet-proof case against Libby and that in turn will nail members of the Bush administration under oath, where their penchant for lying will be costly.
You are also right about beating the bushes to get Democrats out this election, so we can beat the Bushes.
VIRGINIA: Democratic primary is TODAY.
Please vote James Webb for Senate.
Webb can defeat George Allen, the other guy can’t.
Quick question – didn’t Fitzgerald, during the Libby press conference, state that he would publically announce the decisions regarding other possible defendants…or something to that effect?
Two things. When I heard the report on the hearing yesterday, it sort of occurred to me to wonder whether Fitzgerald wasn’t waiting until this point on Rove to ensure that the White House didn’t try to cooperate with Libby in a greymail scheme, and that apparently out of the way, whether he would move on Rove now. I don’t know if that’s what happened.
Second, note that Luskin does not actually refer to the ongoing investigation, he is careful to refer to the pending case, which is different. Not that that means the investigation is not ongoing – and in fact the Post, unlike the Times, or someone refers to still unfinished business in the case including Armitage’s status.
In any case, with the recent good news and Bush in Iraq, this is clearly the moment that the Republicans are going to attempt to seize to reshape the electoral landscape in 2006. It is extremely important for Democrats to respond smartly on Iraq.
Fitzgerald knows what he’s doing. He does not have a “frivolous” prosecution record. He’s a domino theory flipper expert.
Leopold was just a messenger and was probably right, but they probably cut a deal, which is why Luskin’s part of the deal is to make the statement and then go silent.
Cunningham wore a wire – why not Rove, as someone fantasized in the comments above. Maybe he’s been wearing one all along…pretending to be in trouble…he’s a survivor. Rove is a master at dirty politics, and the creation of lies his forte. Flipping people like Rove is Fitzgerald’s forte. I’m going with Fitz.
CNN: W meeting with Iraqi PM now. Hope Maliki speaks Chimp better than we can.
If Rove has been cleared of any wrongdoing, an ethical prosecutor owes it to a person who has been under a cloud to come out and make some sort of statement. If I hear from Fitz that he has cleared Rove, I will believe it and shut up about quashed indictments. If he makes no statement regarding Roves innocence, I will assume it is becuase he cannot comment on an indictment that has been quashed.
Rove has not rolled over on Cheney. His life, professional or otherwise, wouldn’t be worth a plug nickel if he did that.
TROLL
for us non-lawyers here: what does a quashed indictment mean? Who squashes indictments?
TROLL
Rove looks like the kinda guy who’d give up grandma to keep green baloney off his plate.
Rove flipped is my bet.
*ilson: “to quash” = “to void”
So much for the whole “Fitzmas” thing, eh?
Unfortunately, we can try and make as much lemonade out of this thing as we want to, but the fact is that Rove has just been handed a MAJOR public relations victory, and it will very likely affect Democratic momentum going into the November mid-terms, and not in a good way.
Tora Bora, folks… Tora fucking Bora.
I fully understand that Fitzgerald is a professional prosecutor and not a political operative, and that he took this thing as far as he could take it given his professional need to bring only air tight cases. I don’t fault him at all.
But let’s not pretend that we didn’t just take a major steel-toed boot up the schnutz on this one. Karl Rove has just been given a fucking political rebirth, and he is going to be absolutely insufferable at this point, are his fans in Outer Dumbfuckistan. The Democrats may still take back the House in November, but I think they’re going to have a decidedly more difficult job of it now with a reinvigorated, infinitely more self-righteous Karl Rove gunning for them.
(And no, I’m not at all fucking happy about that fact, but I also can’t pretend that this isn’t what we’ve woken up to this morning.)
Yes Keefer, we know you’re a troll. You don’t have to announce it. :)
Gonzalez
OT,why the hell is Air America giving the former “Washingtonienne”(Jessica something or other)extensive airtime this morning?WTF?
Am hanging on by a thread but must trust Fitz.
Look, the idea of a quashed indictment relies on reporters without a proven record or reliability to make subsequent presumptions of fact well beyond anything known.
It’s fine to speculate. But let’s label speculation as speculation, as emptywheel has always done so well.
georgie porgie’s in iraq — we know things are splendid there because he announced his trip publicly several days ago — he didn’t want to just sneak in like rumsfeld
Gonzales, via McNulty,as Fitz’s superior, could have requested the quashing, but it is ultimately the decision of the judge. Did Fitz not go before the Walton yesterday? Libby may not have been the only thing on the agenda.
Thanks Christy, I ought to keep up better.
Good job, and nice to see you, at Yearly KOS.
Uh…Clem.
Please speak for yourself. I’m not spinning. I’m telling everyone the same thing I’ve been saying for months.
should have been “go before Walton, the Judge”
Rove sold out Cheney. Has to be.
“Rove would never roll on Cheney…”
If the choice is prison, he would.
“does not anticipate” is the key phrase here, as in “does not anticipate as long as that scum-sucking swine Rove holds up his end of the bargain”.
No way Luskin isn’t putting the best possible spin on this, and there’s a big difference between “will not” and “does not anticipate”.
PERSISTENT TROLL
Focus on upcoming elections. Rove is still scum –and everyone knows it.
Keefer:
You are free to say what you want, the government cannot abridge that right.
This is not the government. We don’t allow abusive speech or ad hominem attack to community members here. If you can express your ideas in a way that meets community standards, whatever those ideas may be, go for it.
IGNORANT TROLL
Uh%u2026 Clem,
This is not a big public relations victory, because almost no one has been paying attention. It’s a one day story at best.
It would have been nice to take Rove out, but I don’t think the Democrats were going to take back the House with or without Rove. They have no strategy and the barriers are immense.
Yo, Keef, free speech is about the government and you.
This website ain’t the government. Whoever runs it can put up and take down whatever they like.
Pach, with all due respect… I wasn’t speaking for you, and I certainly wasn’t accusing you personally of spinning anything.
Libby and Rove are sideshows and flipping tactics to the main case. I’m sure Fitz is going after conspiracy.
Agreed that this development is bad news for politics. We need to do everything possible to keep all of the other corruption from being swept under the rug by Rovian tactics.
Maybe a blue dress scenario or something like that will be revealed. Anyone seen Laura lately? A couple of weeks ago, she was so busy campaigning for her husband – then silence…or is the campaigning just not being reported anymore… Wayne Madsen had some interesting comments regarding this last week-check it out, but you might need a boulder of salt-or not.
man, what a disappointment. f*&$ fitz
I’m on the west coast and just now am hearing this news. All speculations of cooperation by Rove aside, I am still majorly bummed…..
Uh…Clem: fair enough. I guess I just wanted to be clear, in contrast to your characterization, that I don’t feel at all deflated or kicked in the nuts or anything of the kind.
ABC says:
“Fitzgerald met with chief U.S. District Judge Thomas Hogan before he notified Rove. Hogan has been overseeing the grand juries in the CIA leak case. Fitzgerald’s spokesman, Randall Samborn, declined to comment.”
Why would he do this?
Rove going free shows that Wilson’s comment at Yearly Kos was wrong. We are not a nation of laws. We are a nation where the powerful are free to commmit crimes and the weak are crushed.
Keffer, can you point out why the CIA referred the case to Justice if a covert agent wasn’t outed?
Uh… Clem 108: June to November = EONS in politics, and when you think of all hanging over the goopers already, with God only knows what else soon to appear — imagine about how stale today’s news will be by then.
Besides, Rove has more to run from than to run to — while most Americans are running from everything goopers stand for.
Now for us to help them run TO our kind of candidates . . .
Rove might have weaseled out of an indictment,but the worst is yet to come.
I see a big civil suit against Rove in the near future from V. Plame/Wilson.
What will the grand jurors say when they are free to do so?
What will that CIA damage assessment report say when released to the public?
If Fitzy decides not to pursue indictment of Rove, I believe protocol is to inform the judge and the potential target immediately. When Christy is back, she can tell us more.
JOe Wilson has a statement:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0613.html
I think that Fitz should make a public statement if indeed Rover is clear…WE pay his salary and this is a high profile case and we deserve information, NOT NO COMMENT from Sanborn…I have had it with that, if Fitz has cleared Rove, he needs to make a statement of some sort.
A couple thoughts –
When Fitzgerald issues a statement that Karl Rove will not be charged, I will believe that Rove has been cleared – until then, I will not take anything Luskin says at face value.
When Fitzgerald steps out in front of a bank of microphones and a phalanx of cameras and announces the end of the Plame investigation, I will believe that it is over – until then, I have no reason to believe that the investigation is not ongoing.
Rove and Libby are only two of the people who had a role in this investigation, and between the two, we still do not have an answer to the questions the CIA originally asked the DoJ to investigate. Unless and until Fitzgerald decides he has reached the final dead end, and can take the investigation no further, I’m counting on him to continue to work toward the original goal.
I don’t know Fitzgerald, only his reputation for being a straight shooter but I make a prediction the only one EVER to get any serious jail time out of this whole fiasco is LIbby. Even then, Bush will pardon the SOB before he leaves office.
Let’s face it, the Bush team has outsmarted the courts, the congress, and most of the American people.
Keef, lemme help you out here.
Karl lied to the grand jury. That’s a crime.
But Fitz doesn’t want Karl as much as he wants Cheney. Karl’s lawyer helped Karl cut a deal that keeps your boy out of prison. Part of that deal involves spilling the beans on your boy Cheney.
Dick broke bigger and more important laws involving national security. You know: treason.
Pach @ 138 –
Sounds like Wilson’s waiting on Fitz even more than we are . . .
What is it with WayneMadsen land and now trying to demonize truthout? Why not share mudslinging. WaPo and NYTimes lies everyday. Do you buy them? Do you repeat their news as credible?
Leave it to Joe Wilson to be the ONLY one in this whole debacle who remains strong and unafraid…….His statement thru his lawyer
——————————————–
Statement of Christopher Wolf, Proskauer Rose LLP, Counsel for Ambassador Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson
“We have become aware of the communication between Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr. Luskin concerning Karl. Rove’s status in the criminal investigation. We have no first-hand knowledge of the reason for the communication or what further developments in the criminal investigation it may signal. While it appears that Mr. Rove will not be called to answer in criminal court for his participation in the wrongful disclosure of Valerie Wilson’s classified employment status at the CIA in retaliation against Joe Wilson for questioning the rationale for war in Iraq, that obviously does not end the matter. The day still may come when Mr. Rove and others are called to account in a court of law for their attacks on the Wilsons.”
Very depressed, but Fitz has to do what his job is and nothing more.
However, trying not to grasp too far for straws, regarding “Rove would never roll on Cheney%u2026″ I’m not so sure about that. If the administration really felt that Congress was in jeopardy of going Dem I think that the possiblity for investigations, etc. could really spook them enough (pun not intended) that they figure two things:
They need Karl to win.
Anything else is second to keeping control in the fall (Cheney can always retire due to “health concerns”).
But who knows..got to go vote in the VA primary.
I don’t think prosecutors are in the habit of making statements about “clearing” people who have never been indicted. All of us enjoy the presumption of innocence. His office has never made statements about Rove. Are you saying he should make a statement about everyone he finds to be in the clear, thereby informing the public that these people have been under review?
That’s not how these things work. His office is acting according to ethical and legal best practice by making no statement, as far as I can tell.
Wilson is warning of civil suit, by all appearances. And Wilson knows Cheney is the main quarry. I have not spoken to Joe, and would not disclose my conversations if I had, but he knows how these things go.
TROLL
Pach, far be it from me to tell you how to feel about this. All I’m saying is, if you get a bastard like Rove down and then fail to take him out, he’s going to bounce back up and rip your damned lungs out just to show you that he can.
It’s not unlike Connery’s speech on “How do you get Capone?” in The Untouchables. “If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go all the way, because they’re not gonna give up the fight until one of you is dead.
Politically left alive, wounded, and pissed off is NOT how you want this guy. But that’s exactly what we’ve got now. We’ll see how it plays out, but I do not for one thin moment agree that this is nothing.
Pach….obviously you are right, BUT…I think Fitz should make a statement because he knows darn well about all the speculation that has been going on about this case. Since he IS so ethical as you point out, it would be in HIS best interest to really get the truth out to the public, I may be wrong, but doesn’t he work for the public, and I say again this is a high profile case.
Pach 150 —
AND, IIRC, at his Libby presser, Fitz said he wouldn’t then or later say a word about anyone not indicted.
Pach:
I think we need to identify a short-term goal to get everyone focused on the real issues: the Roots project and our mission in November.
I gave myself an hour to wallow in the disappointment and now it’s time to refocus.
Thoughts?
thanks christy and welcome home.
i’m opening my bottle of champagne now, drinking it alone, and chasing it with scotch. that’ll give me a physical excuse for laying in bed for a couple of days.
citizen jane @ 56 makes some good points. though i don’t hold out any hope for rover being indicted. the guy is impervious. i also don’t think he’s a great strategist. again, i have to beleive that eventually the public will tire of his brand of negative slimy evil. look where he has taken the republican party – to the tank. just give him enough rope.
on the other hand, maybe they figure cheney’s not long for the world anyway, so they gave him up.
still love you fitz, watch your back.
Pach, you have to admit, there has been tremendous speculation concerning Rove, and several msm pronouncements (Schuster et al) that a Rove indictment was imminent. Fitz has indeed been investigating Rove for many, many months, so the speculation about him was justified. It behooves an ethical prosecutor to clear this up in the case of an innocent person in light of such adverse publicity.
The letter does not matter as it is not public, it communicates Fitz intent with respect to pig boy – which he will make clear with his actions.
In any case who is the grinch? Cuz if this slippery pig gets away with the destruction of a fair and open democratic process that elects leaders who follow the law…that will be the year without Santa claus and the Grinch running off with the spirit and song of Hooville all in one.
Keefer, hang around here for a bit, and you’ll soon see how far above your weight you’re trying to punch.
OT-but interesting
TPMmuckraker
Faced with a widening federal investigation into his ties to a high-powered lobbying firm, House Appropriations Chairman Jerry Lewis has retained a criminal defense attorney, said sources close to the California Republican.
Lewis recently hired Robert Bonner of the Los Angeles-based firm Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, the sources said.
Barbara Comstock, an attorney with the firm Blank Rome Government Relations and a former Justice Department official, will handle press inquiries for Lewis’ legal team, the sources added.
So now Comstock’s working for Rep. Jerry Lewis AND Scooter Libby? My, my, my.
…the letter could call him every name in the book and it don’t mean a thing. Either he is charged or not, either he is convicted or not, either he serves time or not.
“Sticks and stones”
Fitzy has never been in this for the politics. I think we’ve all always known that.
Making any statement about Rove before an indictment is a political act, not a prosecutorial one. His credibility hinges on his ethical practice.
Again, I point out, if you’ve been hoping for Fitzy to make this a political venture, you’re asking him to do our work for us. Bad idea.
One more thing: Fizty is a master of taking down a large machine. He did it in Chicago. The guy plays five dimensional chess.
If after all this, he’s not pursuing an indictment of Rove, I’m betting that decision was the right one legally, probably well worth the price.
Statement of Christopher Wolf, Proskauer Rose LLP, Counsel for Ambassador Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson
“We have become aware of the communication between Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr. Luskin concerning Karl. Rove’s status in the criminal investigation. We have no first-hand knowledge of the reason for the communication or what further developments in the criminal investigation it may signal. While it appears that Mr. Rove will not be called to answer in criminal court for his participation in the wrongful disclosure of Valerie Wilson’s classified employment status at the CIA in retaliation against Joe Wilson for questioning the rationale for war in Iraq, that obviously does not end the matter. The day still may come when Mr. Rove and others are called to account in a court of law for their attacks on the Wilsons.”
new thread
my optimism has taken a big hit this morning, but it sounds like rove is cooperating. too much obvious wrongdoing to get off clean… i still think cheney’s taking one for the team so they can install a new veep before ‘08…
sunny: Clearly, I disagree. Based on my understanding of ethical conduct, Fitzy is accountabel for his own words and actins, and those of his office. David Schuster, whom I respect, can account for his own reporting.
As for action, people can join the Roots Project by sendning an email to stateproject at gmail dot com. I’ve already given RP members some suggested action steps following YearlyKos. In my mind, if you’re angry or disappointed about this news story, you should join Roots Project if you have not already done so.
Deductive reasoning, Keef. You don’t have to be too sharp, but you do have to pay attention.
Again, this isn’t about public reaction to the news about this somehow translating directly into votes.
It’s about Rove’s value to the GOP as a top-level political operative, and that just got a MAJOR boost back upwards with the news that Rove is cleared and not going to be indicted.
Rove’s going to be able to do a hell of a lot more damage now that he doesn’t have the threat of indictment hanging over him. Last thing we fucking wanted was that prick coming off of the “injured reserve” list.
I sincerely wish I could pretend that this is anything but shitty news, but I simply cannot.
A question about W’s visit to Iraq:
Can any of you political analyst types think of any reason Maliki would want W to visit him in Iraq?
Somebody on TV reported that Maliki had only five minutes notice that he was going to have “a very special visitor”.
If Maliki cannot benefit from a visit from Bush, well . . . why in the hell would Bush be doing this?
It has to be for some extraordinary reason on W’s part, no?
Thanks.
Hi.
Christy, I was very thankful to see that you posted this. I was about to post mine on my scholarship blog and discovered your comments. (So it made me feel a little bit more confident in my instinct and opinion.)
http://www.progressiveu.org/10…..r-derailed
Zennurse,
Only 17 more days of this scholarship contest. I’m hoping for the best. I’m taking summer classes too. Finals are coming up soon again.
Thanks for cheering me on. (You can email me if you see this comment. It’s hard for me to stay caught up everywhere.)
As a Dem it is better for us if Rove has turned on Cheney.Libby fell on his sword to protect the VP.
If Rove has turned on him,then the White House is divided badly.
We have never heard the whole story about what happen in the CIA Leak Case.When the public hears what lengths the White House went in outing a CIA agent.The public reaction will be harsh.
Even the right can’t spin this into a witch hunt,since Rove wasn’t indicated.
There are a lot of people gloating over Leopold’s reporting. The man may have been burnt, simple as that, by some of his sources. It’s not like any of us have never been burnt — or have not also been burned right along with Leopold in the course of this investigation.
I think there still may be redeemable information in what he’s reported, and unfortunately we may never know with a degree of certainty whether Leopold’s reporting may have been accurate or played a role simply because the facts on the ground changed as quickly as they were reported.
In physics there is a thought exercise that is applicable here: Schroedinger’s Cat. The premise is that observation changes the outcome; did the scrutiny that Leopold (and other reporters and ourselves) focused on Rove change Rove’s level of cooperation?
Did the alleged existence of a related Sealed v. Sealed change this scenario? Leopold reported on the existence of Sealed v. Sealed; was this the last bit of leverage required to get Rove to comply, or is this alleged Sealed v. Sealed the outcome of Rove’s compliance? Was this a filing by the White House or OVP or Gonzalez? Was it none of the above?
We simply do not have all the facts. Yet. I reserve any personal sentiment on this “story” until we clap eyes on documentary evidence produced by Fitzgerald. And I reserve opinion on Leopold until the facts are all in as well. Kudos to Christy for her cool-headed, rational skepticism and her call for objective thinking.
And for the rash of f*cking winger trolls we’ve had: you would do well to clean your own house right now instead of spending time picking fights here. If you clean your own house right now, you might have a remote chance of hanging on to your majority. If you do not, well, we have no choice but to clean your house for you.
And clean it we will.
You know what they say about glass houses. Screw the Windex, I’m bringing a wrecking ball, a front-end loader and a dump truck when I clean your house.
EPU final edition:
Keefer? aren’t you sour like yogurt, but weaker?
Keefer of the Glass House.
Mind your rocks.
What lengths did this administration go to in order to accomplish its goal of Dictatorship?
This is what a coup looks like.
Remember Anthrax?
Remember that the targets were political opponents and the Media?
It was about WAR POWERS & WARRANTLESS DOMESTIC SPYING.
US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES:
Daschle: Congress Denied Bush War Powers AND DOMESTIC SPYING in U.S.
By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 23, 2005; Page A04
The Bush administration requested, and Congress rejected, war-making authority “in the United States” in negotiations over the joint resolution passed days after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, according to an opinion article by former Senate majority leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) in today’s Washington Post.
Daschle’s disclosure challenges a central legal argument offered by the White House in defense of the National Security Agency’s warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. It suggests that Congress refused explicitly to grant authority that the Bush administration now asserts is implicit in the resolution.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..AR2…
And then…a few weeks later…
W A S H I N G T O N, Nov. 1 A group of military scientists is feverishly examining the microscopic spores of anthrax sent to Sen. Tom Daschle for clues to a mystery that could have profound implications for the United States and its ongoing war on terror: Who made it?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story…..30;…
US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.
GOOGLE: “FALSE FLAG TERROR”
IIRC, Christy said duuring the Plame Panel at YKos that the ethical prosecutor makes a phone call at the very moment he concludes a potential suspect is free and clear, so as not to keep anyone who is presumed innocent twisting in the wind. The letter will no doubt be delivered (probably by currier) today.
If Fitz lets him off, so be it, but I object to him including a nostalgic Christmas sleighride picture with the letter.
Rayne, you’re a treasure.
Keefer -
Differences of opinion are not unwelcome here; attacks are.
Make a case for your opinion and be prepared to defend it with facts, not standard-issue talking points.
If the talking points are all you have, do not expect to be greeted with open arms.
If you are looking to have your posts deleted so that you have more weapons in your anti-liberal arsenal, all I can offer is my sympathy that such an event might hold significant meaning for you.
The right’s not spinning? Funniest thing you’ve said all morning – about as fact-based as the rest of your offerings.
Anne, you are too.
I don’t have any speculations on this subject, but I know that only about 25% of the public is even aware of it. The Iraq War is the central issue of the November elections right now, and all the posturings by the Bush administration on the war will have only a temporary, at most, effect on the outcome of the war. For this reason, I remain optimistic that we can win in the fall.
Karl Rove INVENTED the White House Iraq Group (WHIG) for one purpose. TOTAL MESSAGE CONTROL.
Rove is a genious…an evil genious.
He can only be effective when he knows literally everything. He is the REALITY CREATION ARCHITECT.
At any given time he can take a set of actual facts and use each of them to stitch together a totally false reality.
Rove knew that the truth was the enemy of their conspiracy to conquer the Middle East (the PNAC plan). His job, every single day, is to convince you, me and the rest of the world that you didn’t just see and hear what you just saw and heard…or if you did, it doesn’t mean what your logical mind is attempting to tell you – because “we’re in a post-9/11 world now” and black is white.
Karl Rove is the single most destructive force in the US Government…the enabler of the entire evil scheme…THE ARCHITECT.
The scheme includes 9/11 as the essential pretext. “9/11″ … how clever, Karl! Only someone with American sensibilities would select the number we have all memorized to call in the event of life threatening emergency as the date for this evil….
KARL ROVE.
The war plan to invade Iraq was written BEFORE 9/11. The Secret Energy Task Force meetings that Cheney had with Ken Lay and the other OIL HOGS during which they all decided how to divide up the oil fields of the Middle East…all of that was BEFORE 9/11.
Now you see why Cheney insisted the substance of those talks remain SECRET.
All of their schemes and conspiracies REQUIRED 9/11 as the essential trigger.
Cheney outsourced the implementation of the FALSE FLAG OPERATION to Mossad…the FALSE FLAG experts. This explains why over 200 Mossad agents were operating in the United States prior to 9/11. This explains why five of them were arrested, having been observed filming the planes hitting the towers and their subsequent collapse – celebrating our worst nightmare.
9/11 was not a bad day for those involved in the Conspiracy. It was their shining moment…their PRETEXT.
One of them washed out…couldn’t cope with the guilt. Ari Fleisher had to be replaced, and disappeared. Not dead, but out of sight.
The outing of Plame was designed to destroy the best WMD intelligence the US had at its disposal regarding Iraq. Plame knew for a FACT that Iraq had no WMD. It was HER JOB to know. Therefore Rove perceived Plame (the truth) as his WORST ENEMY, and conceived of a plan to silence her. Rove is the individual who insisted that Wilson be sent to Niger.
GUARANTEED.
This was the only way to launch a smear program which appeared to be aimed at Wilson, but was intended solely to shut down the entire Brewster Jennings operation and bury their WMD evidence.
THAT IS ALL ROVE.
He invented WHIG:
The group’s members included Rove, Bush advisor Karen Hughes, Senior Advisor to the Vice President Mary Matalin, Deputy Director of Communications James Wilkinson, Assistant to the President and Legislative Liaison Nicholas Calio, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby.
Every single one of these individuals is a co-conspirator in a concerted effort to defraud America into committing its troops and its treasure to invade a foreign country to the sole benefit of BIG OIL AND ISRAEL.
The pending invasion of Iran is the next phase of the very same conspiracy. Karen Kwiatkowski let us know that Larry Franklin had set up an IRAN desk in the midst of the Pentagon’s IRAQ planners. Larry Franklin has pled guilty for passing Top Secret Iranian Intelligence to AIPAC (Israel). Israeli Generals were free to come and go from the Cheney/Rumsfeld Office Of Middle East Invasion whenever they pleased, without need to sign the guest register.
IT’S ALL THE SAME CONSPIRACY.
9/11 – Afghanistan – Iraq – Iran – Syria.
READ THE PNAC.
A “New Pearl Harbor” was a REQUIREMENT for its implementation.
Rove is running the entire PsyOps Machine to enable it.
Hang them for TREASON.
http://dailydocket.blogspot.co…..ganda.html
But whereas Hitler was a true master of propaganda, and his minister a far less talented functionary, today the situation is reversed: our propaganda minister is the master, and our leader his functionary. Karl Rove is so confident of his strategy that he now announces it to the public! In January of this year,
Rove noted that we face “a ruthless enemy” and “need a commander in chief and a Congress who understand the nature of the threat and the gravity of the moment America finds itself in.”
Here’s more:
“[T]he people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
— Karl Rove (oops!) Hermann Goering
lotus – I second your “Rayne” and add you to the list!
The fact that Luskin revealed the existence of a letter yet did not release its contents is strange, to say the least. If the letter completely exonerates Rove you can be sure Luskin would have released it–unless he made an agreement with Fitz not to. Of course, he would have a motive not to release the letter if it contains any vague language which would draw further attention to Rove. Absent the release of the letter, I think it is reasonable to assume there is something in there that is bad for Rove. Who knows what that is? But the fact that Luskin has not released the letter is a bad sign for Rove. That does not mean he is cooperating, but it does mean that this thing is not over.
Look out for your client Robert—show us the letter! You are the one implying he is off the hook.
The official position of the government of the USA was regime change. When was that? Before Bush’s first term. Now that would mean Clinton was president, right?
‘Cept Clinton was, you know, an adult. Which means he didn’t a) throw out prudence, b) disregard the sober advice of his military about what it takes to run an operation properly, and c) get his country into a disastrous no-win situation, all so he could play dressup and pretend to fly a plane onto a ship.
First off, for the troll-How’s that 29% thing going for you lately?
Rove’s being cleared will not right W’s sinking ship, not in the least-look at just how badly things have gone for the Administration since the 2005 SOTU speech. Rove is CLEARLY off his game, he’s clearly unable to turn things around for W at this point
while I would also have loved to see Rove’s traitorous ass indicted, the fact that Rove will be crowing about this, as will his loyal lackeys and operatives, just makes the following that much sweeter to point out
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..108D55.DTL
“Asked about criticism from some conservatives for his proposal for a guest worker program, Rove said, “This is about getting the right policy, and the politics will take care of themselves.”
“I mean, we’ve seen this about four or five times before in American politics, and it’s always seemed to work its way out politically, and I’m confident this will as well,” Rove said.”
Now I’m confused, Rove’s talent is ONLY in the political side of the equation, NOT how the policy is developed and operated, and when someone so well-known for attention to detail like Rove says “the politics will take care of themselves”, then it’s obvious he’s lost faith in his own abilities to deliver further GOP victories
And really, what else besides the most naive of optimism could account for Rove’s metaphorical shoulder-shrug attitude of “it’s always seemed to work its way out politically, and I’m confident this will as well”?
Does this sound like the GOP’s top political strategist has any clue of how to stop what’s looking more & more like a GOP massacre at the ballotbox come November? Does this sound like the hot buttons Rove confidently pushed in the past-Gay Bashing & Dems weak on National/Homeland Security-have any chance, logically, of repeating their past magic?
Karl’s days as a successful political coordinator are over, as is the GOP’s hold on power come November
The problem here is the Dems-with a few exceptions-Feingold, Murtha, Conyers most notably-the lack of an institutional spine to aggressively challenge the Administration is a problem that cannot be downplayed, underestimated or ignored
The Emmanuel and Schumer strategy of hoping the GOP keeps stumbling-without offering a clear vision of what the Dems stand for-did NOT work last week with the race for Dukestir’s former seat-The Dems could have won that special election if their message had consisted of more than crowing about all the money they’ve been raising
I can’t understand why the GOP can win by pandering to its base, yet the Dems feel that sticking up for their base is a bad idea-other than hitting up that same base for campaign contributions
OTOH
Look how hard the GOP had to fight to keep Cunningham’s seat until November-in that kind of a district, the race should have NEVER been this close, and the fact that he won with less than 50% of the vote is NOT a good indicator for the GOP
As was suggested earlier in this thread, Rove & Co would love for us to get discouraged that he dodged a bullet, as he’s won at least half the battle that way
Instead, let that discouragement turn into anger, bright and blazing, every time the vermin Rove shows his face
And take heart, Rove’s clearly lost his touch as we’ve seen with his laughable attempts to play the gay-bashing and National Security cards again
Those issues put money in Rove’s pocket, but no one else’s-Point out that observation whenever possible when explaining how those issues don’t put money in anyone else’s bank account or food on their tables to feed their families
And considering that Rove’s to assistant-Susan Ralston-came to him after her stint as top assistant for now convicted felon and former uberlobbyist Jack Abramoff, then it might be a touch premature to say Rove’s legal woes are over and done with
And lastly, console with the knowledge that there will be MORE arrests & indictments of politicians, their families, their staffs, lobbyists and lobbyists staffs for numerous ethical scandals at both the state & federal levels leading right up until election day, prospects which do not help the GOP one bit
For those of us old enough to remember Watergate, I think it’s fair to say that we’ve never seen anything like what’s happening to the GOP at this point-It’s being buffeted on a daily basis with an ever-increasing amount of bad news, and all those hits are taking a long-term toll on the GOP
In short, I doubt Diebold & Rove are going to save the GOP’s ass this time around
I’m happy to see that I’m not the only one looking at Luskin’s statement and thinking ‘I’ll believe that when Fitz says it in public.’
So what if Svengali slipped the noose? If Rove is so great and powerful why doesn’t he END THE DAMN WAR?
Maybe somebody can ask him.
I wish to point out that “does not anticipate seeking charges” is *not* semantically equivalent to “will not seek charges”.
To spell out what I’m thinking, perhaps some sort of deal has been cut, such that Fitz expects Rove to provide such-and-so cooperation with the investigation in exchange for not being charged. As long as the agreement is adhered to, Fitz ‘anticipates’ no charges against Rove. However, if Rove lets his side of the deal fall through, things may not go as smoothly as Fitz presently ‘anticipates’.
Alternatively, it may be that given the current set of known facts, Fitz does not expect enough evidence to come to light to successfully go after Rove. However, if the situation is altered in some substantial way (say, for instance, Libby starts ratting others out in exchange for a deal of his own), things might not go as presently anticipated just due to new info having become available.
Finally, keep in mind that of course Luskin (on behalf of his client) is going to put the most self-serving spin imaginable on whatever Fitz said to them. Somehow I doubt things are as rosy and clear-cut with regard to Rove’s status as Luskin would like for the rest of us to believe.
People in Va. are getting phone calls from Kerry to support Webb. The trouble is the caller doesn’t sound like Kerry. More dirty tricks? Maybe it is just a bad connection. However, vote for the most competent
candidate. Remember the old traditional
politics is not going to work anymore.
herb — do we really expect “Svengali” to end the war, when his livelihood has depended on his selling the war and assisting the profiteers as they loot from our pockets? Good question, but highly doubtful that “Svengali” would ever do such a thing.
PJ Evans, Arkades — excellent. Luskin is a spinner of the first water, using parsing to his advantage.
What else can go wrong for lefties?
Hmmm, well maybe Bush will END THE DAMN WAR!
Yeah, when monkeys fly out of my butt. But if that should happen I will admit that it was a “bad” week for “lefties”, if by “bad” you mean that something of real positive significance happened. I could live with that.
Oh, and FUCK Zarqawi, if Bushco wasn’t completely inept/corrupt they would have killed him the last seven times they had the chance.
Or don’t you read?
Hey, Crazed, how ’bout that Zarqawi bounce Bush got in the polls? Hahahahaha. Fuck you.
Rayne,
Um, uh, no….
Wait till November, Mikie, just wait until November. You’ll be snickering out the other end of your blowhole.
Unless you and your 29% of deadenders can figure out a way to END THE GODDAMN, MOTHERFUCKING WAR!
So why don’t you quit yer trolling and start working on that one? Work quickly, there are heavy footsteps pounding right behind you.
Hi,
Seeing as how I’m not a legal expert, I have a few questions that I would really appreciate someone answering:
Does it matter that they said “seeking” instead of “filing” as in “does not anticipate filing charges?” and couldn’t this be conditional as in, “at this point” or even “for the next two months” or “unless additional information is provided?” Also, does this cover the possibility of indictment AND charges being filed? Isn’t there usually a reason given in the letter for why charges won’t be sought/filed? Would it hurt the case if Rove’s lawyer revealed that/those reasons(s)? Thanks.
Mikie — the American people are having a tough week, a tough year, and a tough term.
And you are gloating about it.
Tell your story walking.
Wow, I feel like I’ve had the wind knocked out of me! And to think that I was predicting not only that Rove would be indicted for the collateral crimes, but that he (and possibly Libby, in a superceding indictment) would also be tagged for the underlying crime of outing Plame.
Parsing the words of Luskin’s self-laudatory release is of very small comfort. However, I’ll believe that Rove’s completely off the hook when the other shoe that drops isn’t on Luskin’s foot, but on Fitz’s.
Drats! Foiled Again!
Lets see, GOP wins the scandal tainted 50th district in California, Zarqawi dies, Rove won’t be charged, jeez, what else can go wrong for the lefties in a week.
Last I checked, it wasn’t us lefties who let Usama bin Laden get away with the worst terrorist strike in history, responsible for almost 3000 deaths that occured on W’s-NOT CLINTON’S-watch
It’s obvious that W & his sheeple have forgotten what happened on September 11, and can’t remember just who gave the go ahead for the strike to take place
And your glorious leader STILL hasn’t gotten any bounce in the polls for Zarqawi’s death, his flat-out lies used to invade Iraq are still costing US troops their lives, limbs and minds, and he’s still sucking the treasury dry like the ravenous, bloodthirsty parasite he’s been all his life
Sure must suck for the rapidly dwindling number of starry-eyed true W believers when the overwhelming majority of the US public thinks of W as the clearly incompetent hack us libs have always known he is
Hey, here’s an exercise for the trolls
Tell us one US project in Iraq that’s come in on time and under budget
I’ll time it with a calendar, not a stopwatch, as no one can prove how the Iraqis are materially better off now than they were before the invasion
The Iraqis sure as hell aren’t any safer now than they were before Saddam Hussein was deposed, and religious extremists in Iraq are now reaching out to their clerical brethren in Iran
Yep, that W policy of combatting Islamic Fundamaentalism is sure paying off now with deeper ties between Iran and the formerly secular Iraq
But that’s the W trolls for you, the most easily led of willfullly ignorant sheeple, and they still think the draft-dodging, budget-busting ChickenHawk with Delusions of Grandeur, the Connecticut Cowboy far more at home in luxury suites than cowboy boots is someone worth following blindly
Sorry trolls, Rove’s been blowing it since the “Kill Off Social Security” campaign last year, and not getting indicted or charged is NOT going to affect W’s numbers in any kind of a positive way
So let’s not be too harsh with the obviously mentally challenged GOPtrolls/lackeys, if anything let’s laugh at their dumb asses when they try to spin a drop of welcome good news as a flood of certitude that things are going back the way they were on election night 2004
Yep, you trolls and the GOP have all the answers, that’s obviously why the country is rallying around Dear Leader W at this point
Oh, that’s right, we’re NOT
And there ain’t a way in the world to spin that widespread dissatisfaction as positive for W in ANY way, shape or form
I do wish that people would give Jason Leopold a BREAK. I have no vested interest in him or what he writes. But I do think he was “played” as was Joseph Wilson, which people rather conveniently forget. The Cabal has a full scale vendetta on the press and anyone else who “stands in their way”. Vendettas of the sort we have seen in Bushland have been directed at all sorts of people; it’s extremely immature.
I applaud the entry where it is pointed out that the object here is to GET THE TRUTH.
Someone in the adminstration clearly outted Valerie Plame. The coverup cannot last forever and as this all “unwinds”, I think some of the dirty tricks that have been played will come to light, too. I don’t think truthout and Leopold need to have their credibility taken away because of a criminal administration. It’s important to see the bigger picture.
Ain’t this just fucking wonderful news to wake up to on a Tuesday morning.
Yeah, yeah, I’ll wait to see how this plays out, but right now I feel like Ana Marie Cox after a particularly active night out with the boys, sans the pleasure.
Intriguing. This is bad news on its face. But I agree that we don’t know everything that’s going on. Luskin refusing to talk about anything is significant. Here’s my Wild-Ass-Guess as to where we are:
Rove has convinced Fitz that he was not guilty of the so-called underlying crime of outing an undercover CIA agent. I think he pulled this off by convincing Fitz that, while he admits he told Novak and Cooper that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, he did not know her status at the time. Libby and Cheney clearly did, so this defense won’t work for them. This is a plausible defense. But I also think Rove has cut some sort of a deal to avoid conspiracy charges. Should be interesting to see what he has to say.
Bottom line: We lost this battle. We’re still fighting the war.
Pachacutec is right. We must not rely on prosecutors, but on the basic decency of the American people to set things right.
The fact remains that a CIA NOC agent was exposed for political purposes, an act of betrayal that may have cost lives. The Bush Administration may have built up walls of protection to avoid prosecution, but they can’t suspend justice or bribe truth. Someone has to pay.
Huge mistake, although Pinky will forever be shunned like a political leper.
I believe the latest song and dance from Camp David went to the ramifications of Pinky’s deal, and whether or not the coup is still on the table.
Expect plenty of misdirection, staged events, and lots of bloodletting for cover.
One of our alert readers asks an interesting question:
Name it and claim it…
Those of us in the peasant-with-pitchforks brigade have been trying to find the right word for the Bush administration’s authoriatarianism for a long time. (To me, this has been a long process of increasingly horrific analysis, not a rhetorical exercise in seeing what mud will stick.)
We’ve looked to fascism, and indeed the historical parallells are chilling. Unfortunately, the operation of Godwin’s law prevents the deployment of this vocabulary. (Godwin’s law unfortunately does not contain an exception for when fascism really is happening.) The word “dictator” falls under this heading. Regardless of the merits, we simply haven’t gained traction with it.
“King” has a bit more traction, partly because the “King George” riff is so easy to run, and partly because this word, unlike Dictator, Fuhrer, Der Dëcider, etc., fits with the American revolutionary experience.
I suggest that the word to use is tyrant. This has all the connotations of the above words for authoritarian ruler, and does not fall under Godwin’s law.
Further, tyrant fits directly into our revolutionary traditions. As Federalist 47 explains, the Constitutional system of separation of powers that the Republicans are so obviously destroying, was put in place with the express goal of avoiding tyranny. And if you look at the Founder’s definition of tyranny, it fits the Bush administration like, erm, a glove.
Finally, by connecting to the deepest sources of the American political experience, we can frame our current state as the Constitutional crisis that it truly is–and that the Beltway crowd, satiated on cocktail weinies, will never recognize, let alone name.
Name it and claim it….
Home with a fever today. Just woke up to this. Know I am in deep EPU land.
I am sorry to be a wet blanket, but in the DOJ system one does not send a letter to a target saying “I don’t anticipate charging you as long as you cooperate full” if one has chargable offenses in hand.
You negotiate and sign a “cooperation agreemnet”, which is a valid binding contract. And if a target signs a cooperation agreement and violates it, the prosecution comes down on them like a ton of bricks (I had an informate violate once and was told it was my obligation to the system to throw the book at him)
On the other hand, If PJF had sent a letter saying he did not anticiapte charging Rove, there would be no reason to refuse to confirm that. In fact, he would be virtually obligated to do so once Rove made it public.
Not commenting if Rove wanted it kept quiet (not that Rove would, but some targets don’t get publicity and don’t want to adverstise that they were ever under suspicion)
The language “quoted” by Team Rove sounds like it might be from the boilerplate of a non-target letter. This is the letter that assures you that you are not a target of the investigation.
It would always say that the gov’t does not “anticipate” bringing charges b/c there is no way to for the gov’t to know if it has uncovered EVERYTHING and it does not want to create a binding unilateral contract in case they should later discover that he killed Jimmy Hoffa.*g*
There are 2 things that confuse me:
1) Why didn’t Team Fitz confirm the no-target lettr once it was public knowledge
2) why didn’t Luskin release the whole letter.
Niether behavior makes sense.
Also, the single most important thing is the status of the “investigation”.
Is is closed? If so, even though he is not going to issue a report, Fitz would fill out a closing report (it’s a form) and at least a redacted version of that should be subject to FOIA.
I think the anwers to many of our questions lay in yesterday’s court appearance. Did no one from the MSM attend?????
Judge Waltn said he wanted to know the effect of the ongoing investigation on the greymail problems (not in so many words, but that is clearly what was on his mind).
If the investigation is not closed, why? Who is the remaing target?
Also, I have never heard the term QUashed used in connection with a federal indictment. Not saying it never has been, just I have never heard it used that way.
In the federal system, in my experience, one an indictment is returned it can be dismissed in whole or in part, or itcan be pled to, or you go to trial.
When a defendat pleads to a lesser charge, the remaing charges are then dismissed. If the lesser charge differs from the chrages in the indictment, the defendant plead to a “criminal information” waiving his right to be indicted, and the orginal indictment is dismissed in it’s entirety.
There is no way Leapold could be right unless the letter refers to Karl pleading to an information and saying that once Karl pleads tothe information the government does ont aticipate bringing any charges beyond those he already pled to.
If Luskn has tried to spin such a letter that way, he has either made a grave msitake or else has done so with tacit approval of PJF. If the latter, Rove must have flipped.
This is all huge speculation on my part, but I cannot get this information to jibe with my previous view of the situation. No alternative analysis accounts for allthe know factoids.
I can’t shre and don’t mean to be a tease, but there was on leak at the verybeginning of the investigation from some agents coincudently in proximity to hear something. I trust the info, but never could figure out where it fits in.
Like doing a jigsaw puzzzle and kinowing that you have not yet figured out where one pivotal piece fits.
ARrrgh! this case drives me crazy.
Going back to bed now, maybe if my fever breaks, my brain will work better.
If a transcript turns up, I hope Redd will do a big post on it. I think there will be many clues in the ranscript. Walton wanted to know the same kinds of things that we did.
Where the %*&$# was the MSM? what they couldn’t sit in a courtroom and take steno for a couple hours?
FRumphh!
Dear Fitzmas Fanatics,
Sorry, only lumps of coal in your Fitzmas stockings. What next, impeachment? Onward, “progressives”! You can only make bigger fools of yourselves.
So says one of the 29% brigade
Hey, when will W get a bounce for all the “good news” coming out of Iraq?
And here’s a few more questions to throw at the Frightwingers
How does BVenedict Rove’s outing of Valerie Plame make it easier to recruit CIA operatives?
How does Rove’s outing of Plame’s overseas network make it easeier to recruit the double agents necessary when it comes to tracking and disrupting the transfer of WsMD to rogue regimes, groups & individuals?
How did Rove’s outing of Valerie Plame increase the trust between the Administration and the intelligence analysts?
Remember trolls, try and answer these questions logically if you want your response to have ANY merit whatsoever
Poor trolls-killing Zarqawi didn’t give Dear Leader W the least bit of a bounce in the polls, I fail to see how Benedict Rove’s accomplishment today will do it either
I wonder if Sunny is right? I also feel that Rover being indicted would have been a lot more effective and disagree with Phoenix woman (#43). Cheney’s legacy is set and Rover seems completely free to slime his way out of a Democratic Majority in either branch of CONgress. Expect more “swift boating” and more examples of what was orchestrated against Max Cleland. Colleenmiltarymom (#48) is right on the money with that.
If Sunny is right, then what’s to stop the quashing of an indictment against Noe, Doolittle, Lewis, etc? After all, the lead prosecutor in the Public Integrity section was taken out by being given a judgeship. I also agree with Sunny’s #103 in that his life would be over and Slothrop #121 %u2013 No prison isn’t the worst thing that could happen to Rove. Remember, Rove also has a family to worry about. Now, if they can fix 2 Nationwide Elections, then they can certainly fix anything that is under any of their cabinets%u2014especially under Abu Gonzales. That isn’t to say they are good at anything beyond slime and defend. Speaking of which, I just heard Rush’s former girl friend (Kagan) say “we still don’t know if a crime was committed”. Expect to hear that talking point pushed real hard by GOP TV (Faux, MSNBC, CNN, etc). If this were a democrat, they’d be asking why the SOB wasn’t indicted for treason and Kagan would be screaming this as loud as she could get away with. Aside from tactics that the press would shred Democrats for, they also have Diebold, etc to fix elections as they have 3 times now.
I wanted Rover to go down so much more than Cheney. I know that Cheney is bigger fish, but Rove being indicted brings Bush down another Peg and also lobotomizes Bush. Cheney being indicted does nothing, as his ratings are lower than Bush’s. In fact, Cheney being thrown overboard almost seems to be something right out of Rove’s playbook. Speaking of Rovian tactics, we have Slime ball #81, who should go back to Free Republic. Again, speaking of slime–needless to say, the NRO is now blasting Fitz for the 8 months Karl’s been under investigation, although they cheered Ken Starr. CNN’s Kira Phillips is proclaiming “Rove’s innocence” and saying that today is a good day for the Bush administration.
Agoraphobos #83, I’d have traded Lay and Skilling for Rover. The public had already (correctly) judged these clowns for all time anyway and we got less than nothing for them. They were sacrificial lambs to say that Justice does exist. I agree that they will spin the corruption away from them and have the press focus on Jefferson%u2014who should resign.
After going through the entire comments section, I hope I haven’t done #183, even though I agree with the sentiment.
Like “Cancer Cures” (#71) says, “If Rove is let free, people will be frustrated that these crooks got away with another huge crime.” There’s an old black saying that really applies here: “There is Justice and there is just us”. Um%u2026Clem #109 is so on the money, as is Bill R (#135). Oh and Tank, there won’t be anything newsworthy in a civil suit before November. Even if it were news now, it could easily be delayed till Jan 07.
Finally, I wonder where I’ve gotten reading everything I could on anything Plame related for the last few months. Yea, I know more than the average MSM only consumer%u2014but to what end? I had to scramble just to be up to speed on local elections because I focused so much on National events. I am also looking at everything else in life that I’ve let slide, while I kept reading things that right now, don’t seem to matter. Color me disgusted, as Bush is again shown on all stations addressing a closely screened group of the troops and playing the “some people forget” (9/11 routine). Does anyone wonder why the bulk of America is tuning out?
Then again, everyone has probably moved on to a new thread, while I was concentrating on reading what everyone here had to say. There’s just too much for anyone to focus on…trying to stay informed.
Christy – actually Toni Locy is a woman.
Christ. I’ve learned one thing from all the gloating today – Republicans are all essentially, at their emotional core, Cartman.
Politically and psychologically, clearing Rove is huge. At minimum, it frees the Rovemeister to kick more Democrat ass in the fall.
Yeah, Rove’s been doing such a great job since the SOTU 2005 speech, in fact, he’s done SUCH a bangup job that W’s base is now tearing into itself on a daily basis, most notably on immigration
Try again lil’ trooper of the 29% brigade
And make sure all those insurgents, militias, terrorists in training and death squads in Iraq get the memo about how big a deal Benedict Rove’s nonindictment is, as it appears they haven’t gotten that message yet
BTW-if things are all so hunky dory in Iraq, when will we see W or any of his rapidly dwindling number of starry-eyed true W believers wander around in Baghdad, outside the Green Zone, lightly armed & unguarded?
Oh that’s right, ChickenHawks NEVER would put their money where their mouth is, they would NEVER physically support the same war they think is great when others fight it
Just an unpleasant reality of being a W troll, the whole ChickenHawk thing that they cona’t logically spin in a positive way
As a lifelong liberal Democrat, I’m amazed at what I’m reading here. What have you guys been smoking? You’re engaged in wild speculation and wishful thinking.
The whole Plame thing was a stupid, non-starter right from the beginning. Joe Wilson’s claims started to fall apart with the release of the 2002 NIE summary conclusions in July 2003. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2004 and the Robb-Silberman report in 2005 pretty much put him in the doghouse.
As for Ms. Plame – you can’t be a covert operative and commute to the CIA Headquarters ever day for years.
I predict that the Libby trial will end quickly once it gets into court, with either the judge throwing it out or a quick aquittal for Libby – it’s such a non-existant case.
Hillary Clinton was qualtitatively, if not quantitatively correct about the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy against President Clinton – it wasn’t especially “vast”, but it was indeed a real conspiracy. I remember just how angry that VRWC crap made me – those stupid lies about Clinton, how he murdered Vince Foster, etc.
But back during those time, I never envisioned that my own fellow Democrats would be engaged in just the same sort of thing, worse even.
Stop spending your time and energy on your Vast Left Wing Conspiracy crap, and attend to real issues, like fixing the Medicare drug plan – dicking around about Libby and Plame etc is fantasy – fighting to fix a program that prohibits Medicare from negotiating drug prices is real-life.
Bottom line: One has to consider that Fitz did not want to be the buy who brought down a president.
Had he indicted Rove, that would have made W the guy behind the deal, thus, Fitz would have been the guy to point his finger to W.
I think, and one has to consider that Fitz is human, that Fitz saw that and he pulled back. Can you blame him? No. But it is a bummer that Karl is off the hook.
This is one of those things that take some balls and in spite of what we all thought of Fitz, and I think highly of him, the bottom line is that he blinked!
You know what? Let’s stop using the term “balls.” All the folks with visible balls don’t seem to have any. It’s only the people who have ‘em inside, where they can’t get taken away, who actually ever seem to use them.
/*gets hold of self*/
Sorry. I’m just maga-bummed. In spite of Christy’s encouraging thoughts, I fear the worst. All the real scumbags get off scotfree, The Big White Turd does his worst for the fall campaign, the Dems keep presenting seventeen-point plans, and we sink so far into dictatorship that we never ever ever get out.
All that’s needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. And I had Fitz booked in the “good” column.
In Fitz I trust. He has done, and will continue to do, what the law allows.
I am first time responding after getting so enthused about the energy at YKos. Did anyone see this posting and if so is there any comment?http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/