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I mentioned yesterday that I was hearing from people I trust that Lieberman is planning to leave the party. Now over at Political Wire, Taegan Goddard points us to a new article in the Hartford Courant. Holy Joe is being "urged" to run as an independent by the former head of the Connecticut Democratic party, who thinks oppositing incumbents in the primary process is an act of terrorism (obviously he and Lieberman must be close):
Political Wire has learned that key allies of Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) are making contingency plans for the three-term senator to run as an independent in this fall's U.S. Senate race in Connecticut. Lieberman faces a challenge in the Democratic primary from businessman Ned Lamont.
In fact, an important Lieberman backer, former Connecticut Democratic chairman John F. Droney Jr., is quoted by the Hartford Courant as a supporter of the plan: "I think to be terrorized through the summer by an extremely small group of the Democratic Party, much less the voting population, is total insanity for a person who is a three-term senator."
Though the Lieberman camp is trying to discourage such speculation, the senator's campaign manager was quoted on the radio today saying they would not back Lamont (D) if he won the Democratic primary. (my emphasis)
And Kos points to a diary by Elwood Dowd, who speculates that all this Unity 2008 bullshit (you know, the "we fucked the party up so let's abandon it" crowd) may be an attempt to lay a foundation for a "draft Joe" independent run. Basically Holy Joe steps up to be a leader for all the WATBs who see any threat to their control launched by peons as tantamount to "terrorism."
It is just so pathetic. But Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid better be thinking about what they plan to do if in fact this isn't a feint and it happens, because they know WE'LL be banging the war drums over it.
I love Ned, I back Ned because it's the right thing to do, win or lose. But Lieberman's actions are those of a desperate man. His internal polling must just SUCK. Things look better and better for Lamont every day, and I hope every Senator who ignored our faxes and voted for cloture on Alito gets a little shiver when they watch what is happening to Joe. This is not "all about the war" as Joe's cheerleaders would position it. It's much bigger than that, and they should know it by now.
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rootz
feel the Nedrenaline !
fitz?
Buh-bye, Droopy Dog.
If you didn’t know Joe has joined the folks on the Group W bench, the quote from Droney ought ot prove it.
As Bush himself might say it: “If Joe’s not reelected, the terrorists will win.”
to me, the really exciting news is the endorsement of Ned by the CT AFT … this makes it ‘respectable’ for other AFL-CIO unions to go with Lamont !
Actions => Consequences
POOR poor Joe. Advantages of being an incumbent = not so much. Waah.
Jane-
Do you want me to hold the Late Nite post a bit to give this thread time to mature?
So a challenger in the primary in the fundamental process of democracy–the ballot–has turned poor ol’ WATB Joe into a quivering mass of goo who can’t stand the heat?
“Terrorists?” How very Rovian Coulter of you, Mr. Droney.
Give ‘em hell, Jane!
Oh, and
LAMONT!
KOBE!
PACH, JANE, and CHRISTY!!
“…to be terrorized through the summer by an extremely small group of the Democratic Party…” So genuine democracy in action now equals terrorism… Freedom of speech is fine as long as you only say nice things about Joe… This story makes my heart break.
That rat bastard!
How dare his campaign characterize a primary challenge in that manner? Does he not realize the voters can fucking hear him?
I wonder if Hillary heard the voices today?
It’s my feeling that whatever Lieberman decides to do regarding his party affiliation, his grotesque, negative and ugly agenda will remain the same. And for me that is the essential and critical point. Lieberman must be defeated. Whatever the cost.
Every day, I am more and more surprised and delighted by the effect we are all having on this country. In the long term, we will win.
and
LAMONT!
WEBB!
NETROOTS!
Pitiful. It is pitiful that he can say these things with a straight face. The Rethugs and traditional media have created a theater of the absurd where grassroots efforts are terrorism.
Black is white and up is down. I only hope the folks in Connecticut are not wearing rose colored glasses.
30% of delegates at the CT Dem State Convention is ‘an extremely small group’ ??? — that’s a damn respectable chunk of the Party!
TRex @ 9
I think Joe’s about as mature as he’s ever gonna be.
Or (given some of the comments the last couple of days) were you talking about our maturity?
;)
Bring it on, sooner or later . . .
Keep in mind… if Liberman runs as an Independent, it’s possible he could pull more Republican votes then Democrat votes. Liberman is in trouble for a number of reasons, but his leanings to the right have caused many Democrat & Progressive CT voters to look elsewhere for representation. That could very well mean a Republican vote split… and better chance for Lamont to win in November. Generally speaking, in New England Independent voters are aligning themselves with Democrats - genuine Democrats - and turning away from Republican-lite candidates.
Taylor Marsh was there for Hillary’s speech over at her blog and has a write up on her being booed
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc.....p?id=24146
op99 how are you doing?
So Lieberman and his peeps need to be asked when they spew such floxam: “And if he runs and wins as an independent, with which party will he vote on VERY important organizational and structural issues that might determine who has power?”
If the answer is “Democrat”, then we’re just re-running the primary you already would have lost and why would you go through that humiliation again?
If the answer is “Republican”, as we suspect, then Connecticut Democrats will bury him.
If the answer is “I don’t plan to run as an independent”, then we’ll save the question for when he breaks that promise.
If the answer is “Neither” then how much good is he reallly doing for his constituents?
If the answer is “we’ll see who wins and go from there” well, we kinda thought so and
If the answer, the morning-line favorite, BTW, is
“W’ere not answering that stupid question.” then shut the fuck up about the issue until you WILL answer it.
Jeff Greenfield’s recap/report on YKos and the blogging phenome referred to Old Media, IIRC. I think we should adopt that, too. Old has a lot more image-focus than traditional.
And how about New Democrats…like Ned. Better’n Old Democrats like Joewoementum
TRex — I just tried to call you!! Hold ’til 8:30. I just wanted to get this one up.
Cloud7 at 20, that’s what Connecticut Bob has said, that a 3-way race should be an easy win for Ned, notwithstanding the very early polls before he had name recognition.
Katymine, hi, doing fine, thanks.
Right on Rob Zuber @15.
I think the left is finding a counter to all the right wing think-tanks, and its in the form of easily-accessible blogs. If Yearly Kos was so grand this year, think of how much more important it will be next year, or even for the 08 election.
Larry Sabato on Webb.
(Snip)
“Jim Webb is George Allen’s worst nightmare: a war hero and a Reagan appointee who holds moderate position […] Allen tries to project a Reagan aura, but Webb already has it.”
*Allen will be in the run of his life. If he loses this race, he loses his lustre as a presidential candidate.
As a NH observer, Allen is the type of guy who can appeal to people, even though he is a far right winger, he can still come across as likeable and moderate..Something that Gingrich can’t do.
If it takes a recently converted Republican like Webb to knock off Allen, so be it.
Now Allen starts to sweat and has to keep his eyes on his ass even as he tries to run for the GOP nomination.
Good luck Mr. Webb.
-GSD
evidently, when asked a week or so ago about presidential preferences for the ‘08 election, RICHARD PERLE’s first words were that he hoped Lieberman would run on the Dem ticket.
ned should use that. ‘my opponent, folks, endorsed by mr. death himself.’
To hell with Liebermann, his defeat will send an important message to all other Bush apologists and enablers. Lamont is right to jump on this with both feet. As soon as Conn. Dems realize that Liebermann would bolt the party and tie himself even closer to Bush … it’s over.
I was thinking about this today. Too many of us hesitate and get down when we have a setback. Eff that! See the repubs doing that? Bushie is at 33% and cannot touch any topic without completely screwing it up. Yet the republican noise machine just drowns it out the people screaming while our country slides to hell.
Well, we have might and right on our side. So full steam ahead baby! GO Webb! Go Lamont! And Turd Blossom, your gonna get yours, ya pig-faced bastard. Ya may have fooled Fitz, but we still got our eyes on ya, you draft dodging criminal.
If Joe bolts the party and goes Independent, he no longer has the protection (and money) from the Incumbency Protection Racket.
Bring it on
What on God’s gray Earth was Al Gore thinking when he put this putz on the ticket in 2000? Had it been Gore-Gephardt or Gore-Bradley or Gore-anybody else, we might not be so fucked today.
TRex….
8:30 will be right after John Stewart asks Ken Mehlman if he is gay or straight — for those of us in the EDT or CDT.
“It’s much bigger than that, and they should know it by now.”
You said it, Jane. My husband wants to know who this Ned guy is that I keep sending money to.
Oops, that’s “flotsam” that is spewed by Joe Jetsam and his trusty lapdog Droney. “Flotsam.” Just wanted to be clear.
Peterr @5, the “Group-W bench” HA! Does Joe have to pay a fine and pick up the garbage too?
The question isn’t “will Joe bolt?”, it’s “WHEN will he bolt?” There’s no doubt that he’ll abandon the party and run independent. It’s only a matter of when.
I’d rather Joe hang on and continue running as a Democrat. Lamont will close the gap easily by primary day August 8th. But if Joe splits early and starts an indie run, he’ll be more difficult to beat.
Every day Joe waffles and doesn’t rule out an indie run, he looks weaker and indecisive. We’re hammering him on the blogs, and the MSM is picking up on the noise we’re making. They’re starting to ask the questions they read on the blogs.
Personally, I’d like to see Joe stay in it as a Dem right up until the primary.
And then get his ass handed to him by Lamont.
dr nobody,
“What on God’s gray Earth was Al Gore thinking when he put this putz on the ticket in 2000?”
Answer: Florida
Recent polling had the Tennessee race in a dead heat. Again, Ford is certainly one who is much more conservative than I am, but I’ll take him over a Cat Killer Clone any day.
Ohio has Brown(D) up and Strickland(D) up over DeWine(R) and Blackwell(R).
In Montana Burns(R-at Bastard) is in the run for his life with TesterD-Netrooteriffic).
The stampede away from the R’s in Kansas is up to around 7 switcheroos…..
The more safe seats Bush/Rover and the Republicans have to fight, the better it is for the Dems and it is looking like a fight now.
So, take these to heart, even though Chimpy, Gimpy and the Turdblossom have been on full-on spin, they have their work cut out for them too……
-GSD
it’s not just the wdc political establishment that’s gonna be rattled by lieberman’s party switch/ultimate defeat, but the sally quinn party pals are going to be equally spooked, i’m guessing. anyone else notice that little joe hasn’t made any sunday teevee talk appearances in a long while. it used to be he and joe biden played tagteam in their appearances — like they were the only two faces of the democratic party and were scheduled on alternate sundays. it appears the chatterboxes may be getting a whiff of ‘loser’ and have eased up on the invites. or am i reading too much into this.
“terrorized”????? You’ve got to be kidding. So now we’re the terrorists? Joe’s got Rove on the payroll, for shizzle.
Hey Joe:
Since you have GWB’s ear and all and since you put yourself out as such a smart guy; question for ya, got any ideas on how to END THE DAMN WAR?
Just askin’….
OT-
looseheadprop- thanks for circling back with Mitch. Sounded like he added something to the “rove made a deal” hypothesis with some legalese. I’d like to hear Christy and you weigh in on the “use vs. transactional” immunity.
Also OT-
It’s great to see FDL doing what FDL does best. The lovely hosts of FDL can stay above the fray, there are many commenters here eager to defend their honor and the spirit of FDL. We will need their armor unchinked in the battles to come.
Peace.
T-
Oh yeay…suck it, Joe.
My prediction - Say buh-bye Joe.
Strickland/Blackwell and Brown/DeWine, the Dems had better be ahead by at least 12 points or else the voting machine “GLITCHES” ooh hate that word–will render the bad guys winners once again.
Larry Sabato on Webb.
gsd — lawrence odonnell said on franken’s show today that even webb won’t be able to unseat george allen. i sure hope sabato’s reading is more accurate, and as someone much closer to the action, i suspect it is.
How does everyone think of Republicans who switch to Democrats?
Do they possess progressive/liberal values or are they DINOS in a Democrat Suit?
Glad that people are deciding that they do not aline with ReThug values and stands but…. Like some input.
O’Donnell has his own people to protect. Meanwhile, the voters of Virginia have SPOKEN!
Plus: in the Irony-Is-Lost-on-Desperate-Political-Hacks Category:
Lieberman campaign manager Sean Smith said that, “Lieberman would not promise to support Lamont, because the businessman voted frequently with Republicans as a local official in Greenwich.
‘The only public record this guy has, he voted time and again like a Republican,’ Smith said. ‘Why would we support that?’ “
TRex- you are quick. This does need to mature, like fine wine. And, hehe, I have a hint about what’s coming. Icing on the cake. And, BTW, I have had a flying object in the room making me very p*d off. In CA where I come from, they are called “waterbugs”- but this one sure looks like a humongous roach. I need local advice.
Katymine:
Since you ask, Bowers speaks for me:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/6/13/174619/402
I voted in the Dem-VA primary, bleached of any passion whatsoever.
Good Christ. It’s like words have lost every vestige of meaning. “Terrorized”? Even allowing for overheated campaign rhetoric, that’s so cynical it’s peeling the varnish right off my desk.
Perle. That reminds me.
Lieberman’s third party bid is probably a plot.
I would absolutely vote for Lamont on priciple if I lived in Connecticut. But I am concerned that Lieberman would win as in a three way race as an idependent candidate. There will be citizens greatful for his constituent service. As a Jew I can tell you that there are many Jews who while otherwise liberal will go for Lieberman out of fear for Israel’s security (which as a Jew I think is misguided but that’s a whole other story).
I hope I’m wrong but I see a scenario in which Lieberman prevails and the balance of power in the Senate may be decided by which caucus he chooses to organize with. You could have a bidding war for his loyalty. A sickening but realistic possibility. I would still vote for Lamont on principle but I’m nervous about what lies ahead.
“a humongous roach. I need local advice.” did it come from an album named “The Big Bambu’?
I’m concerned for the Republican Party.
I mean, if Frist the Cat (Killer) gets whupped by Ford and Allen gets his Reagan-worshipping ass handed to him by the former Navy Secretary (hee!) then it will be up to Guliani to fend off McCain.
Lessee: Who will represent the right(ful) wing to fend off that scary prospect? C’mon, Bob Dornan, we know you’ve got one more run in you!
Mr. Keyes, pick a state to be from and let’s get it on!
Tom DeLay, you and Duke could put together an AWESOME comeback. Kinda like a Rose Garden Campaign except from the Exercise Yard.
But as I said, I’m concerned for the Grand Old Party. No, really I am.
Psyche.
bkny,
Well, Lawrence O’Donnell said we’d have 22 indictments from Fitzgerald too.
“lawrence odonnell said on franken’s show today that even webb won’t be able to unseat george allen.”
“Lawrence O’Donnell, who confidently predicted last week that Fitzgerald was about to hit the Bush White House with 22 indictments of senior officials”
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=lawrence odonnell 22 indictments&sm=Yahoo! Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t315&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=odonnell&w=lawrence odonnell 22 indictments&d=KyC5bzmtM7Be&icp=1&.intl=us
Sorry for the freeper link.
slightly ot, but I might need medical help: Is anyone watching Gergen speak on Rove, etc. on Anderson Cooper? I’m vomiting in my mouth & need assistance. Why oh why does the msn still ask ole Gergen for commentary?
p.s. sorry for the OT comment to TRex. Whatever it takes, I would like to see Lamont win. No prognosticator, me, but it is crystal clear that Lieberman is in trouble, and, crystal clear, whatever happens, the “actions have consequences” meme is gonna haunt the Vichy Dems.
I guess Joe hasn’t figured it out…if you’re a Democrat who doesn’t think he can win running as a Democrat, who would you be bolting your party to represent, exactly?
Couldn’t be Democrats, otherwise you could stay and run as a Democrat.
Independents could vote for you regardless of whether you run as a Democrat.
So, who does that leave? Hmmmm…could it be….REPUBLICANS???? The ones you’re after were probably going to vote for you anyway, but with that (I) after your name, no one will report their asses to Karl Rove.
Or, maybe, you don’t give a rat’s ass what party affiliation you hijack, because this isn’t about representing the interests of actual consituents, but about representing the interests of Joe.
As Homer Simpson would say…”Doh!”
Am I miscounting, or is this like the 8th post on FDL today (with Trex still to come)? I can’t read that fast!
OT, and I’m too lazy and tired to go looking, but one our hosts said something about prefering the term “blogoverse” over “blogosphere” or maybe it was the other way round it’s been a long day and I’m degenerating into Faulkner-like stream-of-consciousness without the literary talent but there is a point here and what is was is that I’d like to propose a name for “our” corner of the blogoverse/sphere, the Kos-FDL-Atrios-greenwald-and-like-minded axis and that is “the Netroplex”, the bustling city of ideas and (excepting this comment) intelligent discourse and progressive ideals and I’ll just shut up now thanks please don’t shoot me it’s been a long hard day
‘Shake your moneymaker independent-style, Joey’
;>)
It occurs to me that Reid shouldn’t sweat too much about “harsh punishment” if Lieberman leaves the party. Lieberman has been undermining the Democratic caucus continuously since the 2000 election. Actually, even during the 2000 campaign. He shows no party loyalty, why should he be given any?
I’d sure hope Reid tells him he’s welcome to continue to caucus with the Democrats but he can’t hold any prominent role. If Lieberman wants to go independent he can take the consequential lumps with that action.
Hell, I think it would be rather amusing to see Lieberman’s Droopy Dog act about the indignities heaped upon him.
10-4, Captain Jane!
I will hold this post until 20:30(PDT)!
*snaps salute*
Funny,I don’t feel like I’m part of a “extremely small group of the Democratic Party.” Opposing a 3 term Republican Lite Senator.I think Jane and CHristy walk on water. Walcott agrees! Sorry I don’t know how to link, but check him out.
From the Washington Post: “For three months, party traditionalists who backed Miller clashed with young and passionately antiwar bloggers, who had helped to persuade Webb to jump into the Senate race.”
Yay netroots!!!!
PointedHead 53,
We don’t do that shit here.
To raise any sort of challenge to “a person who is a three-term senator” is an outrageous affront.
I bet you didn’t know that in a footnote to Federalist 98.5, someone posing as James Madison wrote in ballpoint pen:
The nerve of some people.
OK, so yeah, I’m cranky. But today Hillary Fucking Wannabe Clinton, Joesph diGenoputz, and Barbara The Omen Bush are the sluttiest. Oh and pinche Karl Rove, you may now go to the cafeteria and get a cookie.
If (when) Joe goes Indy:
1. Ned gets major free press, more name recognition and an additional boost to his momentum.
2. Ned gets a major character issue with which to paint Lieberman: traitor to his friends. Faithless. Unreliable. Self-absorbed. Selfish. Puts himself above his constituents.
Joe gets no free ride by going Indy.
bkny@40:
“it’s not just the wdc political establishment that’s gonna be rattled by lieberman’s party switch/ultimate defeat, but the sally quinn party pals are going to be equally spooked, i’m guessing”
You see more of a distinction between those two cliques than I do….
I was wondering if it would do any good to call the DSCC and ask them for their response to this report of Lieberman allies getting ready for an independent run?
Prairie Sunshine #24: I like “Old Media” too - remember the mileage the rethugs got out of “Old Europe?” I think they’re still using the phrase over at Fox.
And, EPU’d on the last thread - there was a diary up at kos earlier today that said Howard Dean was talking to a group, telling them that pollworkers in CA-50 (Busby’s race) took home the voting machines prior to the election!!! Plus, there apparently are tens of thousands of provisional ballots still uncounted. And, according to the diarest, the DNC chair says CA-50 is not over.
Maybe Howard really heard our concerns about stolen elections this weekend. (?)
*ilson, do I have to google “The Big Bambu’, or are you willing to educate me?
TRex 64, I believe she’s a General (5 star).
Jon Stewart just told Ken Mehlman he feels sorry for his job coz he has to spray perfume on those turds !
froggermarch, I’m psyched!
BUT TRex- that’s only in 10 minutes…. and *all* of the threads today have had 500 comments!!!
katymine — it’s happening in kansas too. former state gop chairman re-registered as a democrat, saying that the republican party has become so unwelcoming that he no longer feels a part of it. hard to know how this will shake out — does it pull the party further to the right; does it dampen down true democrats in their rise to leadership posts. the kansas guy is now a candidate for lt governor with the democratic governor.
if you’re interested, the latimes has an interesting article on the turmoil in the kansas gop. let’s hope it spreads:
http://www.latimes.com/news/po.....s-politics
Trex, pinch it. For a few more minutes!
Watching Melman on The Daily Show. Background: GOP elephant logo.
Why are the three stars upside down? Are they daring us to say they’re evil?
Google would work better, VG — you must have had a ‘Margaret’ youth …
So the CT Dem pooh-bahs think that Democracy equals terrorism?
Funny, have you ever heard a Republican refer to the demands of their social conservative base - who are clearly baggage as often as not - as “angry Rightists” or “radicals within the party”? No. Apparently they are smarter than the DC Democrats, who keep losing elections we should win, primarily by stabbing their own base in the face on the thoroughly disproven theory that you win elections by avoiding antagonizing political opponents who would throw you into concentration camps if they had the chance. A very odd theory.
Yet, somehow, Democrats who actually hold mainstream opinions - mainstream America, not mainstream Democrat - are regularly referred to - by their own party as “radicals” and “extremists” and now, “terrorists”? WTF? Exactly whose side are these people on? Whose side is Lieberman on? (cf support for the Iraq war)
Defeating LIEberman in the primary is as good a place as any to restore genuine Democratic opinions and principles to Party and Nation.
our hosts said something about prefering the term “blogoverse” over “blogosphere”
Russert called it the “blogospheres”. I’m not sure where the others are.
cozumel — thanks for that link. odonnell speaks with such authority, i assumed he knows what he’s talking about. silly me. lol.
jim#71: i was just noting the lack of facetime joe’s been getting lately; i agree, there’s not much distinction between the media and the political hacks. they are all part of the toxic soup that makes up wdc political culture.
*ilson, Mod Com desk awaits your attention.
I would trust Sabato’s analysis more than O’Donnells’.
Sabato makes a living as a politcal analyst.
-GSD
Absolute crap. Joe accuses Bush detractors as giving aide and comfort to the enemy and those furious at him and seeking new representation as terrorists.
Sorta like the loser dude’s advances spurned by chicks and calling them dykes. Couldn’t possibly be anything else Joe, you’re so charming.
There’s one blogosphere in each of the internets.
John Stewart really stuck it to Mehlman on all kinds of issues but failed to ask the big Q.
If we can help take this DINO out even if we don’t get back house or senate in 2006, that’s fine with me. Our party is “broke” and needs to be fixed, first. One brick at a time.
OT: tomorrow our local peace groups are holding a demonstration with 2500 crosses outside the National American Legion Hdqtrs to remember the 2500 US military deaths in Iraq …
bkny–
Thanks for the link to the Kansas article.
My dark horse Veep candidate for ‘08 is Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius. She is a popular Dem in a red state and she is the daughter of popular former Democratic Ohio Governor John Gilligan, who still wins seats on the Cincinnati School Board at age 84 or something! Two states for one!
*ilson EPU’d –
having the AFT of CT back your opponent must indeed ‘terrorize’ Joe and his mignons…
Or in this case, that would be Weepin’ Joe and his filet mignons . . .
op99 - 74
1. take eyeballs
2. put back in sockets
I love it!
Webb won in Virginia so it looks like Joe’s BFF, George Allen is going to be shitting in the sandbox along with Joe.
*ilson #81- hmmm…. my college boy friend has since lead an interesting life on the land, near Garberville CA. And, you can google that. Just to plant a little seed for you to think upon.
Re stolen elections: posted on earlier thread but as we know that was probably 500 or so posts ago…whew big treads these days.
bradblog.com has info on the Busby election shenanigans and STAGE a Brilbray swearing in ceremony that is picked up by the AP. (not surprised)
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=2956
again…bizarro down is up land. The election is not yet certified.
new thread
…any threat to their control launched by peons as tantamount to “terrorism.”
BINGO! We have a winner! Give that kid a Cupie Doll!
And did anyone notice that John Kerry has started saying things that got Howard Dean a ‘nutjob’ back in 02?
Guminit should tell the truth about war…Duh!
Dude, where’s my 21st century?
50 Ways To Dump The Dubya
EDITED BY SITE OWNER
Please refrain from ad hominem attacks on other commenters.
“and I hope every Senator who ignored our faxes and voted for cloture on Alito gets a little shiver when they watch what is happening to Joe.”
That being said, let’s not forgot that Maria Cantwell, WA voted for cloture on Alito, is running in 06 and is being challenged in the primary by Mark Wilson. Wilson rocks and deserves Democratic and blogger support !!!!
Remember, Cantwell is a traitor to every woman on this planet. Wilson says that it’s no man’s business about a woman’s reproductive choices.
To characterize Lamont’s supporters as terrorists is abhorrant and despicable. I hope it becomes more and more obvious that Lieberman is preparing to bolt the party (at the same time he is seeking to be its nominee), and that the voters see him clearly for what he is–a devious double-dealing it’s-all-about-me it’s-my-seat-boo-hoo Bush-kissing Republican-enabling worn out old WATB has-been phony. And that is coming from me, a yellow-dog Democrat who, if I were registered to vote in Connecticut and Lieberman won the primary, would hold my nose and vote for the old skunk.
Speaking of outrages, I hope everybody followed the link that sunny provided in 13 above to hear what happened at Hillary Clinton’s appearance at the Take Back America event. The deceitful suppression of the free speech of Clinton’s critics is shocking. I would be really interested in knowing whether Clinton’s people or the TBA people (and who are they?) were responsible for the fascist tactics used against the protesters of Clinton’s pro-war positions. Does anybody know anything about that?
Notwithstanding those two items, I hope everyone is having a pleasant evening.
Rob Z @ #83
The blogospheres are out on the internets
i meant op99 - 67
PointedHead — don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
PointedHead 104
Site Owner gets to say whatever the fuck she wants on her blog, just like you do on yours.
Site Owner does not tolerate racism, anti-semitism, or other nasty kinds of -isms even in her comments; it reflects badly on her, fdl, and the fdl community if left unchallenged. Maybe you did not intend 53 as anti-semitic, but that’s how it came off.
For what it’s worth, I also believe that there’s a double standard at work in the deletion of PointedHead’s comment (100.) Intemperate comments on FDL posts sometimes seem to be permitted, or not permitted, based solely on who is targeted.
PointedHead’s comment was intemperate, and it was directed to another commenter, but that commenter, op99, had already called PointedHead’s comment “shit,” and I do not think PointedHead is wrong about the reason why.
What the lobbyists for Israel are or aren’t responsible for in U.S. foreign policy is at least debatable, but it seems pretty clear to me that Joe Lieberman’s support for the current administration’s bloody-minded policy in the Middle East is directly influenced by his sympathy for Israel.
Of course that doesn’t make his running as an independent a Mossad plot, but I understood PointedHead’s saying that it was as a piece of snark, no more ad hominem than much of what is said about all sorts of folks hear on FDL, and certainly not anti-semitic, unless the definition of anti-semitic is extended to embrace any criticism of the undeniable relationship between U.S. Middle Eastern policy and the views of foreign policy wonks who believe U.S. support of Israel should be unqualified.
As I’ve willingly acknowledged before, this is Jane and Christy’s house, and it’s their right to moderate the comments any way they choose. This comment is intended as an opinion only, not a challenge. Still, I do wish they’d re-think this particular exchange vis-a-vis who did what to whom.
PointedHead — it’s a scientific term. Apparently your ignorance is multifaceted.
Whyever would you believe I had a problem with “bloodless vampire,” when I mentioned no such thing? I referred to your declaration that you would not wait around for an apology, yet mysteriously, you are still here.
If you think that having any limits to acceptable discourse is “totalitarian political social conditioning,” then find some other forum that has no such limits. You do not have the right to demand that any forum you choose allow any behavior you like. And no matter how self-righteous you are, your insults toward longstanding members of the community, which you persist in making, do not make you any friends, and are something we do not tolerate here.
One point pointedhead sorta makes is good. Just like defeating Ashcroft in the Senate race only freed him up to be AG, I think we will have Lieberman in our future, one way or another. So make sure you’ve got a good supply of wooden stakes. I betcha a cabinet position awaits him if he loses in November. Anyone care to speculate which one?
FWIW, Wm Timberman, I agree that Israel’s influence on US foreign policy is a valid topic of debate, and one can hold a negative opinion of Israel’s policies without being anti-semitic. But PH wasn’t using measured language as you are; he was wittingly or unwittingly talking in racist code.
op99 - first, let site owner speak for herself. second, “anti-semitism” is BY FAR the worst kind of “ad hominem” attack possible. you should note that throwing it around carelessly can also get you into legal jeopardy. in this respect, your post should have been removed immediately.
however, in your case, i will chalk it up to unconscious, reflexive, built in, political conditioning mechanisms and nothing especially calculated to harm me personally.
i will repeat the question: do you know anything about the history behind how we got into this war? it is complex, to be sure, but it is not at all an oversimplification to state that it was a product of three or four primary forces: venal military contractors (who formed a big part of the republican political machine down in texas), elite oil interests (who are under great pressure to increase reserve portfolios in an era of rapidly dwindling supply), cynical political strategists (who wanted the war - any war - in order to provide the president with the kind of totemic political stature that he would need to force through an otherwise impossible agenda), and a foreign political lobby (that wants to expand territory and hegemony and needs the US, for obvious political, ideological and diplomatic reasons, to wage these wars for them).
said political lobby was recently busted on charges of espionage - specifically, their efforts to draw the US into war with another foreign power, one that poses no direct threat to the US. we are currently “debating” whether or not to follow through on this brave new war. what got all of this crazy talk started, however, will soon be lost down the memory hole, thanks largely to thousands of fearless commissars who scatter the blogosphere, wielding this nastiest of all epithets anytime somebody steers towards this elephant in the room.
in any case, perle is up to this all the way to his friggin eyeballs. you certainly know that much. if he is advocating lieberman for prez in 2008 - it’s not because of his views on feminine health, that’s for sure.
Its Lieber-mole, not Lieberman. The guy is a neo-con Cheneylover and has been nothing but a mole. One of the worst V.P. candidate selections in history. IMO, hes done far more damage to the Democratic party than a nut like Zell Miller.
Plus, he has the most insidiously wimpy, spine-dissolving voice on the planet. To quote Hunter Thompson, “Fuck him”.
op99 — with all due respect, I don’t believe PH’s original comment used “racist code” at all, not at least by my definition. If Jane and Christy, or the moderators who have their confidence believe that it did, then the deletion is understandable, even though I disagree.
PH is now angry, and feels that he was done an injustice, and is saying things to you that he probably wouldn’t say under more normal circumstances. Perhaps you and Redshift are right; he should just go elsewhere. If he does, though, I think that his treatment here is at least partially at fault, and that it’s regrettable that he should be driven off in this way.
“There is no greater misfortune than underestimating your enemy.” - Lao-tzu (551-479 B.C.E.)
It looks as though Lieberman will do anything to win re-election, even if it means abandoning the Democratic Party. If he is re-elected as an Independent, the Dems will have even less control of him than they do now. He will have complete freedom to vote however he he chooses.
If the Dems miss gaining control of the Senate by one, it will be a huge blow to the progressive cause. It will mean; no hearings or legislation on Katrina, the war in Iraq, climate change, energy conservation, Republican corruption, on and on.
Lieberman is a major disappointment and a pain in the ass, but think what it will be like if he is re-elected as an Indy. When Jane wrote the following on her interview with Harry Reid, she took it mean that for Leiberman, there are consequences for straying too far from the Democratic fold. I take to mean that a successful