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I met only one politician at Yearly Kos, but since I had a question I really wanted to ask him it seemed worth making the effort.
Before Harry Reid's speech he had a private meeting for a few bloggers. Matt Stoller got him to commit to supporting net neutrality, then Matt double-dog dared me to ask Reid my question.
So I asked him -- if Joe Lieberman leaves the party, what will happen with regard to his Committee appointments? Reid was very careful with his words, and very specific. He said that his letter written to delegates on behalf of Lieberman had made it crystal clear that he was endorsing Joe specifically because Joe was committing to stay in the party. But, I pointed out -- Lieberman has since that time given several interviews where he has refused to run out the possibility of an independent run.
I told him we weren't unsympathetic to his situation -- we weren't the Club for Growth going after Lincoln Chafee. I might not like Ben Nelson's politics but we mostly leave him alone for a reason, taking him down would assuredly deliver the seat to a Republican. But I said Ned is a genuinely good candidate, and Reid agreed. He said he'd met with Ned twice and liked him a lot. And as to the opposition we've been mounting against Joe? Reid said it to me twice, and he chose his words very carefully:
It's important for people to know that their actions have consequences.
By which I took it to mean, from the context, that Lieberman's actions have brought this on himself. I was actually a bit surprised that Reid spoke about the situation in such a forthright manner. Obviously he was a bit more clued in than Barbara Boxer about the temperature of the YK crowd with regard to Lieberman, but still -- it was a lot more than I expected.
And I pass this on in the FWIW category. Ever since the convention last month, people have been furiously floating rumors that Lieberman would leave the party. Given the numbers it's a rather obvious point of speculation and I've attributed most of these tales so far to just that -- rumors -- but I finally heard it from somebody quite knowlegable of Connecticut state politics whose judgment I trust, that Lieberman would in fact be leaving the party in the next few weeks. I have no idea if it will happen but if Reid is hearing the same thing it does provide some context for his remarks.
Meanwhile, Ned Lamont challenges Lieberman to support the winner of the August 8 primary. Party loyalty, anyone?
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Does the challenge from Ned force the issue at all, or is Lieberman gonna play oblivious?
Damn, I thought I had it!
There’s another way to look at Harry Reid’s comment: he’s sending Lieberman a message that Lieberman made a personal commitment to Reid that he was remain in the party and, if Lieberman leaves, Reid will take that as a personal affront (and will undoubtedly deliver “consequences” to Lieberman — it’s delicious to speculate as to what those “consequences” might be!)
Harry!
Joey bag o’ donuts leaving the gravy train……here’s hoping Jane.
Ooooohhh that is the best news I’ve heard in months! I DO hope he leaves the party–what a huge, huge coup! And it would be right on the tails of YKos which the press could spin as more evidence of BLOG POWER . . . I love it!
P.S., also I notice that the YKos story has been covered by the MSM a lot today! (Haven’t seen any clips personally so I don’t know whether it’s good or bad, but still!)
OT, maybe people here know this already, but Markos is coming up on Countdown (MSNBC).
HARTFORD, Conn. — A new radio ad that started Monday challenges U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., to support Democrat Ned Lamont if Lamont wins the Aug. 8 primary.
“Joe, let’s both go to the Democratic primary on Aug. 8 and let the people of Connecticut decide,” Lamont says in the ad. “I’ll pledge to back you 100 percent if you win. And for the good of the party, you’ll pledge to support me 100 percent if I’m victorious. What do you say senator? May the best Democrat win.”
“If Joe Lieberman is considering abandoning the Democratic party, the people have a right to know it,” said Tom Swan, Lamont’s campaign manager. “Ned is agreeing to abide by the process and respect the choice of the people. Will Joe?”
http://www.stamfordadvocate.co.....local-wire
The beauty of this is that Lieberman must leave the party significantly before the primary to have a chance of victory. Since he only has one day after the primary to gather the necessary signatures, he must do it in advance of the primary to get on the ballot as an independent. Otherwise, if he loses the primary to Lamont, he’s completely toast.
Tough to be in this position, eh Joe? Maybe you should have thought of that before you went on TV for years carrying Bush’s water.
Congressman Bernie Sanders ran as a Socialist but in Congress he votes with the Democrats.
Big deal: Joe runs as an Independent without Democratic Party support. Assume he wins: who will he vote for for Senate Leadership which assigns committees, etc.? Will his voting record track the GOP caucus or the Democratic caucus?
He can probably get those votes pretty fast traveling on a gurney…..Heard they are pretty good for emergencies.
Gosh, what will The New Republic say?
OT-Just saw Markos on Countdown. He was great.
Wolcott has a post on The Thing from Addison and Steele:
http://jameswolcott.com/archiv.....ds_and.php
Of course, we all know that Lieberman left the party some time ago. We’ve just been waiting for him to send his forwarding address.
Lieberman is one of those “Mistakes I Made on the Campaign Trail” that Al Gore will someday have to ‘fess up to. He helped hoist this particular turd onto the national stage, and hopefully at some time he might offer public regrets for it if, indeed, Joementum leaves the Democratic Party.
It was because of Joe that I almost didn’t vote for Gore in 2000. Joe seriously dissed atheists with his “you can’t be a moral person if you don’t believe in god” crap. That was an extremely offensive–ah, hell, let’s just say “shitty”–an extremely shitty thing to say. And I never heard Al Gore correct it.
Joe, you’re a putz. You may be a religious putz, but your support for this awful, terrible war makes you the morally bankrupt one. Not me. And any god who would take your side in this little Iraqi adventure isn’t someone I’d want to spend 5 minutes worshipping.
I hope Joe Lieberman does bolt the Dems and joins up with the GOP, just in time for that party’s self-destruction. It’s all he deserves.
I too hope he bails. At least we don’t have to see him on Situation room et all “representing Democrats” all the while carrying Bushco nonesense to the people.
Maybe the rumor is out and about because people know he is alredy getting signatures.
Lamont: way to smoke out the real Joe Liberman. This aught to get people thinking no matter what. If he won’t commit…well we must vote for Lamont!
GO Lamont! Go firedogs! Go Markos! Bringing it to the Right wing. Every Day!
Rob # 10 - Thanks so much - just came in the door and didn’t know. Where’s Keith tonight? Don’t know the new guy sitting in for him.
Kos is great on TV - and Keith’s sub clearly couldn’t resist his infectious grin.
I have been following the Nedrenaline coverage, but I am still not clear on this: if Lieberman runs as an independent, will that deep six Lamont’s chances? Honestly, Lierberman as pseudo-Dem or Independent is pretty much useless for any progressive political movement in the Senate, but wouldn’t it make it very hard for Ned to win?
Good to ask Reid, Jane. I am impressed that he was willing to be so open with bloggers and to take real political questions. I have always like Reid, though I differ with him strongly on reproductive politics.
Jane — well done — you da one!
Not sure how this fits into L’affaire Lieberman, but TPM has added Joe to the list of those in favor of net neutrality.
Jane - Did you know (of course, you knew)that you have a genuine, MSP headline-kind of scoop here? Sen Reid didn’t say this to wapo’s Dan Balz, LAT’s Ron Brownstein or NYT’s Ad Nag/Kate Phillips/Modo or Byron York - he shared this with you. They would kill for this kind of scoop.
I look forward to Dan Froomikin (and CT papers)to link to you tomorrow and source you for this monster of a scoop on Leiberman.
Good for you, Jane, he needed to be asked and he needed to give some kind of answer given the rumors. Lieberman has been a weathervane and self-centered rather than party-loyal for sure. I’d be pretty angry if I were Harry.
And although I understand the national media’s obsession with the relationship between this conference and the candidates/election, it’s really a shame they are all telling essentially the same story. If anyone has seen a different one, I’d love to read it.
Here’s a question. One of the things that differentiates congressional elections from national elections is the “bringing-home-the-bacon” aspect, where one of the levers incumbents use to keep their seats is all the clout they’ve accrued in Congress, allowing them to acquire all kinds of porky goodies for their constituents.
So what happens if Joe *officially* leaves the party, and Reid makes it clear not only that if Joe wins as an independent, he will have absolutely zero clout, but that if *Lamont* wins, he will get a nice committee seat or two where he can bring home more than Lieberman possibly could? This would pretty much obliterate any benefit of incumbency, which is pretty much all Joe has going for him at this point.
Wolcott can be quite amusing some days …
John in Sac, Mary, others: there’s a third NSA case in Portland Oregon brought by
Thomas Nelson who was inadvertently given documents that he contends show illegal domestic surveillance by NSA. The judge ordered at least one doc to be sealed in a special secure facility in Seattle.
To each their own:
Even if I don’t agree with his political stance, I have a lot more respect for Reid after reading your inside account. The question is substaintially difficult for a minority leader and his response seems frank, truthful and respectful. Of course Joe is gonna run for “Independence”…he knows he can’t win with his current trajectory.
And certainly you asking the double dog dare questions begs me to ask you ” Did you or Stoller have a triple-dog dare question?”…LOL
had a discussion about this in the context of Reid’s salon.com interview in late Nite last night, starting about here.
ecoast @ 24
ONLY Jane has the balls to ask him.
Most of those other news outlets have been very remiss by not giving credit to tpmmuckraker for multiple scoops so ahem…it would be a coup for Jane to get the quote and the credit. Here is hoping she does! Well deserved credit!
Hi JH,
Regarding Ana Marie Cox, Maureen Dowd, and Barbara Boxer:
I don’t think fighting any of these people is going to help the cause (people have varying ideas of what the cause is, you can find mine by clicking on my id).
You won’t make Rove’s loafers quake, win or lose. He and his will happily attribute the thing to fraticide amongst the unfriendlies.
The only way to get the Democratic party’s attention is to win. Something. Like beating Joe.
Then suddenly they might grow a spine? No, suddenly the idea of the Democratic party will have to encompass progressive ideals and opinions, once again. It is the same way the FAUX Christian right has gained the ability to punch above their weight on the Republican side.
And then (we all think), the country will be able to make better choices. So I’m glad we’re back to talking about Ned Lamont! (and Joe).
P.S.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh100204.shtml
Jane, Reid was talking to you, thus he was saying that what you [Jane] do has consequences — he was complimenting you for getting results
Thanks for doing that and sharing that Jane, MOST interesting.
I can’t seem to shake the Monty Burns voice in my head going “…ex-cellent…’
OT:
Here’s the Democracy Now! link for an interview with Thomas Nelson (re:#28)
I don’t know much about Keith’s temp replacement, Brian Unger. But he did appear as the main host on the Bushisms DVD I bought in 2004: http://www.bushism.net/
He’s one of us. :)
I think that Lieberman has done the math, looked at the trends, and he sees Lamont continuing to gain strength with the likely voters. Losing the primary is a definite possibility, and his chances look much better in a three-way race. But that means he has to start a petition effort soon, or he won’t meet the deadline to qualify as an independent.
He might hold out for a while longer, but I predict that the first poll showing Lamont tied with Lieberman among likely voters will cause Joe to jump ship. He likes his Senate seat so much that he wouldn’t give it up to run for VP.
wh’sup, zennurse?
We are getting into some good realizations of political power. Assuming Joe runs and wins as an Independent, does Reid have the clout to “punish” Joe in the Senate or does he need Joe’s independent vote badly enough? Reid as Majority Leader or Reid as Minority Leader has very different powers…independent Joe in the Senate could very well be the swing vote in a divided Senate and be courted by both sides…
It does get complex !
Once again I feel compelled to state the obvious: If Lieberman leaves the party (officially), he’d better hope that Republicans win control of the Senate. He will have thrown away whatever goodwill he had with Democrats, and would probably be the most ineffective Senator in Connecticut history if he needed to work with them for any
porkfavorable funding for his state.Eli 5:38 p.m. said,
“So what happens if Joe *officially* leaves the party, and Reid makes it clear not only that if Joe wins as an independent, he will have absolutely zero clout”
A nightmare scenario is that 49 Democrats plus Bernie Sanders get elected on our side, 49 Republicans win, and Lieberman wins. So it would be 51 votes and control of the Senate if Joe voted with the Democrats (as Bernie does), or 49 Republicans, Lieberman, and Cheney winning control of the Senate for the Republicans. In that situation, Joe might play hardball with Reid and say, I won’t vote with the Democrats unless you give me my pick of committee assignments. In that situation it would be somewhat reassuring that Harry Reid is a former boxer, but still…
Gladly’bear
Reid may have been complimenting Jane…if he had said it once. But twice seems is be underlining, italics, and bold referring to Lieberman
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the *Republicans* offered Joe some plum committee assignments, actually…
zennurse, Rayne, Steven Parrish, CPA - I left replies for you all in EPU territory.
If Lieberman runs as an Independent, a lot of his funding will dry up — but he still will be flush …
MsAnnaNOLA 31 and Jane -
If Sen Reid said this on the record. the way to push this to the MSM (and certainly CT papers and to Lamont Campaign) is to do a press release on official FDL letterhead with the quotes and links to this story. Also say that this is an exclusive and they must source you (must source, must source, as wonkette used to say).
Jane - Go mainstream with this. You have a genuine scoop of national scope. But be sure Sen Reid said this to you on record.
Some Guy @21–I was thinking almost the same thing, but here’s my version of the question:
Is it really a done deal that if Lieberman goes indie he will beat both the R and the D candidate?
I’m not sure I buy that. I think Joe would piss off beaucoup people if he left the party, and i think he’d look bad. REALLY bad. What would he do, go all Zell Miller on us and sigh about the sad turn his party has taken? That won’t fly in Connecticut.
Bobby-babe, good to be back, yes?
Haven’t sat down to figure out the camera or look at photos, the boy has been programming and I slept all day yesterday. I doubt any of my photos will be as good as yours.
I think it’s worth saying (slightly defensively) that this blog is capable of managing many things at once and has raised a pile of money for Ned since he announces his candidacy. So, um…
If Joe runs as an Independent…
I think he will have a very hard time convincing CT voters the “why” of switching parties. Because he feared losing the primary? I don’t think that will sell…at all.
He’ll need all the Joementum he can spin to make that pile of shit smell like roses.
zennurse -
Yeah. Great to face that mountain of work awaiting me at the office.
:(
Going to see my guys tonight.
http://santafeandthefatcityhorns.blogspot.com/
Be tired again at work tomorrow.
YKos was awesome. Getting to meet and hang with YOU was wonderful.
Connecticut Senator Lowell Weicker, one of the last “good” Republicans was trashed by his party and ran as an Independent for Governor and won. This example may explain why a Connecticut politician would consider a serious Independent run. By the way, the GOP dumped Weicker for Senator and supported Lieberman in 1988. Joe’s party allegiance has been shaky from the git!
In Indiana politics, an independent run is unthinkable.
OTOH, maybe Reid meant Kossites and Firepups and the Progressiverse when he said, “It’s important for people to know that their actions have consequences.” The consequences being that Joe runs & wins as an indie and is then free to vote with the republicans wheever he so pleases. He’s been a pretty good environmentalist, but I’m not sure of his commitment there, either.
Probably an artefact of the distillation of narrative. It’s just that I am getting ever more sensitized to ambiguities. Had to be there, I guess.
I think that if Joe leaves the party he will disappear. That old Joe-mentum was never quite as strong as it looked in principle. I bet he hangs on for the primary, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he won it. If he runs as an independent, Harry will pull all support from him, I am almost sure.
peace,
jim
It’s important for people to know that their actions have consequences.
Jane,
Any chance Harry meant your actions, that perhaps you/blogs might force a Lieberman/Ned event?
You of course were there, and can sense context, body language, etc. But I was wondering…it seems like there may be more than one interpretation of Ried’s statement.
Every day that Joe refuses to answer “the question” is like a gift. Every public appearance he makes is another opportunity for someone to ask him about it. The longer he waffles, the better. The public is becoming aware of the issue, and are starting to rag him about it.
Either he’s going to have to put all his chips on blue, or go Indie sometime soon. Otherwise he’ll look weak and ineffective, and Lamont will gain heavily in the polls.
BTW, Joe can’t run as a Republican, he missed the deadline; and to reemphasize this, in order to file as an Indie he needs 7,500 verifiable signatures by 4PM the day after the August 8th primary.
So if he waits until he loses the primary before making a run as an indie, he’ll have to get all those signatures within a day. And trust me, each one will be verified as valid; I think he can’t gather them while still running as a Dem.
At the very least, we can publicize it if he does and make him look unethical.
You just can’t turn down a double dog dare,such an action would have consequences.
Isn’t Connecticut all rich white Republicans anyway? Won’t they all vote for Lieberman as an Independent? If Joe loves his Senate seat, he knows how to keep it — bolt the party.
If a Senator has a choice to make which involves being on the side of the voters who put him in office, or being on the side of what is good for the country as a hole, how should a good Senator vote?
btw, Larry King is going to do a show against Ann Coulter right now…
(Cujo359, I left you a reply to your reply back in the last EPU since it was way OT here.)
Right here, this particular post by Jane, this is the VERY essence of the movement to take back the Democratic Party. We are no longer wearing the kid gloves and tippy-toeing around with fancy-schmancy la-di-da words when only the straight-up truth will do.
If we wanted prevarication, we could have been Republicans.
The people deserve better; they deserve honesty. They have the means to demand it. And they are going to simply go and get it, just as Jane did.
Brava, Jane. Thanks for showing us how it’s done, leadership by example.
connecticut has lots of poor folks, including many latinos — male latinos are anti-abortion & vote for joe — female latinos are pro choice
lina, you’ve never been to Bridgeport, have you? There’s all kinds of people in Connecticut (I don’t live there any longer, myself, so I won’t be able to vote for Ned).
Thanks *ilson,first time I’ve seen that clip.She really does look insane.
“Isn’t Connecticut all rich white Republicans anyway?”
No, just Fairfield County. LOL
Actually, Connecticut is a fairly progressive state. Not quite Massachusetts, but what is?
CTBob, you are always full of such good news!
Gotta go be a mommy and feed me some boys.
Play nice and I’ll seeya tomorrow.
love
zen
1,179 DYAS AND THE KILLING GOES ON AND ON AND…
“So what happens if Joe ‘officially’ leaves the party…”
I would like to hear fromm someone close to the ground in Connectecutt…it is my impression that if Joe runs as either an independent or as a Republican he will lose and Lamont will win by at least a plurality with Lieberman pulling more Republican support than Democrat.
Are traditional Democrats , includin’ the elected party leadership, more afraid of the shadows than the reality here…I’m thinkin that the best thing that could happen to the Democratic Party is for old Joe to blot , run as an independant and split the Republican vote. I think Lamont has welded the Democratic Party back together in that state…Will some body close to the situation there help me out here?
You go Joe, don’t let us stop ya…you fuckin’ sanctemonious hippocrit!!
KEEP THE FAITH…THERE IS ENOUGH REAL EVIL OUT THERE, YA DON’T HAFTA WORRY ABOUT THE JOE LIEBERMANS!!
Thanks for the tip *ilson, I didn’t really want to watch Scarborough anyway.
ecoast @ 24, I was thinking the same thing. Reid very calmly and quietly shut down the senate when he wanted to force action on part 2 of the Intelligence Report (which the Repukes punted-of course) and this statement strikes me the same way. He says a lot with very few words.
If the traditional media is paying attention to this blog (and after last weekend in Vegas how can they NOT?) this will reverberate.
I guess I don’t care so much about speculating on what party Joe might offer to vote with on organizing the Senate in the new Congress. Getting him out of the Dem. party (where he regularly mouths the Repub. line of the day) seems like the right objective and may be doable.
I just don’t see Joe being first in a 3-way election, unless the Dems in CT luv him more than the party - some undoubtedly do, but how many?
I’m not SURE Reid’s message is what we are hearing. He MAY be saying that he’s worrying about getting a Dem. majority and he’s worried he’d lose Joe on organizing the Senate for a Dem. majority. That also would be a action with consequences if Joe wins a 3-way race.
I don’t think there’s any good exit strategy for Joe. I think he’s hosed. think about Ct’s options in that race. Lamont: outsider who unseated the incumbent, hates Bush etc (stop me when there’s any negative baggage for a Lamont win). Lieberman: Bush patsy, unseated by a challenger, fat cat incumbent puts self above party, etc. (stop me when there’s any upside to Lieberman bolting party). Republican nominee: Who? And more importantly, how? In such an anti-Bush state…
Who looks best out of those three?
There’s a striking resemblance between Harry Reid and Ana Marie Cox. Watch out Jane.
off topic question;
just what happened to that guarantee from truthout that rove was going to be indicted within the week?
Lieberman’s a pretty crafty guy, and I don’t think he’s anywhere near on the outs with party leadership as he is with the rank and file. An outside possibility exists that the Dems can take back the Senate in 06 or 08. Lieberman must be in line to chair some significant committees. Would he really walk away from that to side with the party that’s sinking in the polls?
Norske, the current Q-poll has Joe winning both as a Democrat and an Indie in a 3-way race, but Lamont cut his lead by a huge margin. CT Blogger on ConnecticutBLOG has a good video analysis here:
http://connecticutblog.blogspo.....-from.html
So, ya think bloggers do no original reporting?
I give you Jane’s quote from Harry Reid:
“It’s important for people to know that their actions have consequences.”
The impact of Ned Lamont and Jon Tester on Establishment Democrats is clear. Barbara Boxer, are you listening?
==========
Had enough?
==========
Chris: you’re assuming that Lieberman has a political ear. I don’t think he does–look at the situation he’s made for himself.
me to me: if that guarantee from Truthout was a money-back guarantee, get your cash! otherwise, that guarantee is worthless…
Norske, the current Q-poll has Joe winning both as a Democrat and an Indie in a 3-way race, but Lamont cut his lead by a huge margin.
I have a suspicion that if Lamont can get within 5% (and maybe not even that much), he’ll win based on turnout. How many energized, motivated voters is Joe going to have?
“So if he waits until he loses the primary before making a run as an indie, he’ll have to get all those signatures within a day. And trust me, each one will be verified as valid; I think he can’t gather them while still running as a Dem.”
Good evening. That above, in my opinion, is the key. This guy “Ct.Bob” thinks it is so. I appreciate his input…but are these facts? Is Lieberman PROHIBITED from gathering signatures so long as he appears as a Democrat?
I think it makes a hell of a difference in Lieberman’s appoach this Summer. What are the facts on the rules about signature collection for an independent run?
Ghostman
omg wolcott rocks my world
exhaustion, my ass.
Firepups, sorry to be OT and spam, but I note that Renee in Ohio’s DKos diary on this subject went into the ether and the topic is critically important.
Please do what you can to get this story on Charles Grapski some airtime; it’s an example of how bad things may get across this country if we don’t return to the rule of law and soon.
“What are the facts on the rules about signature collection for an independent run?”
I’m trying to find that out. This falls under state election law, not Democratic party rules, and trying to dig through the state’s laws online is an exercise in frustration.
But I’m working on it.
Joe is finally doing us all a favor and painting himself into a corner.
I think Reid’s expressing his awareness of what we have been saying the last few months about Joe’s betrayals. When Joe bails, he’s gonna get the shaft. Oh, the humanity.
To everyone who attended YKos, thank you so very much for keeping in touch with all of us who stayed behind to soak up the lake. You made us feel a part of the whole thing by imparting your excitement and little bon mots about everyone there. The panel was incredible. Let’s toast to a new beginning.
me to me, truthout has another article from “that reporter” out today, but it’s so without factual basis, I’m not even going to bother linking to it.
FYI, C-SPAN is showing on their online schedule that there will be some YearlyKos coverage starting tonight at 10:45 PM ET. They are always shuffling their schedule around, though.
Lieberman is legally free to gather signatures while running in the Democratic Primary BUT politically it looks cowardly — it looks like you know you might lose and then run against the winner of the Democratic Primary. Very ugly (but legal!) The media and Lamont would pounce all over Joe if it came out that petitions were covertly being circulated.
boehlerting Alone: so tell us, after your nasty little comment: what have you done for the progressive cause or the Democratic party?
Or are you just having a hard time calling in to Rush’s show today?
gladly at 61:
can you get those women to the polls?
“What are the facts on the rules about signature collection for an independent run?”
I have not read Connecticut’s election laws. But I think I have heard people commenting here who say that they have, and that it is not illegal for a candidate for party nomination simultaneously collecting signatures for an independent run (although I think it would be politically stupid and would set Joementum up for charges that he is duplicitous, a cheater, etc.) Does anybody know if the law says otherwise?
Just a little insider gossip on the New York NSA case. As we all know, the government’s response to these cases has been a blanket national security defense. A potent litigation tool,to be sure, but overused and overplayed, it will lead to some Judge finally calling bullshit. And once one judge does, many more will. Even Roberts understands his job is to support HIS institution, not the executive. Anyway, it seems that in the New York case (which has a number of plantiffs including the ACLU and the National Lawyer’s Guild) the Government invoked the National Secuirty “defence” and included a supporting memorandum with large portions that were blank. The governemnet then told the federal judge to make an appointment to come read the redacted portions at some secured location.
That is where our soviet states are at….
83, CtBob….ok, cool. Does the Lamont group know? They ought to know the answer.
86, wilson….well, are you sure? I just don’t know.
Ghostman
PS Zennurse — I loved seeing the pic of you. Somehow it changed my online “view” of you, like learning the proper way to pronounce “mui” improved my opinion of her as well. Thanks for allowing that to be shared.
OK, thanks, *ilson. Are you pretty sure about that?
Does anyone know who was taping the FDL Caucus? There was a video camera there. I’d really like audio of the Roots Project presentation and Q&A to share with the rest of the Roots Project membership.
Joe Lieberman still has a good dose of orgaanized labor behind him. It is a weird sort of Reagan/teamsters strategy going on, but its about all Joe has left in the primary.
Lisa #10
Me too, But he lost me during the VP debates back in 2000. It was a love fest with Cheney - CHENEY!
In a small way I’m glad Gore lost. At least this thread wouldn’t be about how to dump Lieberman from the oval office. Sheesh the mind boggles.
Heh. It’s an interesting jab Mike G. If I could get through to Rush I would try not to waste my call though I would be so tempted to scream at his pompous, prideful, arrogant, ruinous fat puss I would probably not be able to compose an intelligent question. What did I do for the progressive cause? I tried not to kid myself that I’m not impressed by power the way Jane is . Why didn’t she get the Minority Leader to tell you what his party’s position on Iraq is. People are having their insides spread out all over the highways of Iraq and Jane’s asking about Committee asignments? Have we gone completely out of our minds?
Nasty comment? You think that was a question impressive enough to get all of that self-praise Jane gives herself? I mean who in the MSM gives them that kind of self-stroke for taht flacid little question? Come on, surely we can expect better than this. Or were we just happy he came to our show?
TROLL WHO EMAILED ME A BITCHY LITTLE COMMENT AND THEN WOULDN’T ACCEPT RETURN EMAIL. HA! FUCKING PANTS PISSING LITTLE COWARD.
Rayne re: Charles Grapski…follow the link it is rather appalling. Seems some laws were broken which led to others and still others still. Totally rediculous.
Also Brad blog has info about CA-50 votes being insecure due to electronic voting machines being taken home by poll workers anywhere from 1 day to 1 week. Takes about five minutes to hack the vote. I hope Kathleen Busby sues and contests if for no other reason to put it on the record like Kerry et all did not. It is the principle.
Re: Grand Jury Indictment
Sealed vs Sealed from truthout… interesting.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/061206Z.shtml
ghostman, i’m not a lawyer but that’s what i’ve picked up here and there. Lamonts lawyers know for sure already.
In Indiana, we have a “sore-losers law” whereby if you lose a primary, you can not run for that office on some other party or as an independent.
Connecticut allows the collection of signatures while a primary run is being conducted. To do otherwise would be a pretty serious violation of the First Amendment and, even though parties could ban the practice, most would think it unthinkable and therefore, I bet, no party rule banning the practice was ever created. Meanwhile, it really is a political question and not a legal one and is best settled in the voting booth.
If you know what I mean.
Jane’s question was excellent and penetrating. Exactly the kinds of questions the traditional media never asks.
My gut tells me that there’s no law against collecting signatures while campaigning with another party, for the simple fact that the deadline is only the day after the primary. I’ll ask around and see.
But if Joe doesn’t leave the party and only files AFTER losing the primary, he’s gonna get destroyed in the local media and lose a lot of his support.
Christ, it’s exciting, but I don’t know if I can stand another four months of this!
It’s tough to say whether Lieberman would actually win or not. He’s leading in polls, but that’s as a democrat. I doubt voters have actually digested an independent Lieberman running against the Democratic choice.
That’s going to lose Lieberman a lot of support.
Plus, his support of George Bush will cost him big-time in Connecticut. He really never counted on having to defend his left flank as a sitting senator. He took the nomination for granted right up until the party convention.
But, Bush is horribly unpopular in Connecticut. Even in January 2005 Bush was polling 24%. That’s not a typo: 24%! Link: http://www.stamfordadvocate.co.....4172.story
Connecticut voters ARE independent-minded. Republican Governor Rell is currently polling a 75% approval rating and is a shoo-in for re-election.
But, Lieberman has managed to piss a lot of people off!
This will be very interesting. Lamont will certainly gain a lot of support once he gains the nomination too and Lieberman will drop.
We’ll have to see how this plays out. But, it will certainly put Connecticut’s seat seriously in play and may even result in a pick-up for the Republicans if Lieberman and Lamont divide the Democrats and independents while the Republican base comes out to vote in force. (It’s difficult to see that happening though, since Republicans really have a lot to be unhappy about right now).
I just don’t get the Joe logic of switching parties. You mean you’re pretty much going to completely lose your party’s confidence very soon and you’re such a loser that you can’t just face that fact and go get a job selling shoes but instead change your party so who exactly can vote for you? Umm, wowie, what a stratergy.
if Lieberman loses the primary, his current union support will not necessarily follow him into an independent run…
Dissent is fine. Nastiness isn’t. As ever, that is the community standard.
Are you sure that Reid wasn’t talking about the consequences of our actions in opposing Lieberman as well as Lieberman’s actions?
dont forget: there are 3 very hot Congressional races where we are running against 3 incumbent “liberal” Republicans in Connecticut.
ah, for the good old days when we could summon TRex to the white courtesy you-know-what-o-phone…
Joe Buckk — 106 — once again, no. Look upthread.
Concern troll at 97? I am amazed when people do not follow the thread of thinking — Asking Reid about Lieberman is in every real sense THE SAME THING AS ASKING ABOUT IRAQ!
Was that loud enough? And it also has the advantage of being THE SAME THING AS ASKING ABOUT WOMEN’S RIGHTS!
Get it? Lieberman is a dangerous threat to the wellbeing of troops and women, so it was easiest to ask Reid once succinct question, because Lieberman sucks on so many different levels (torture, religion, federal judiciary, etc).
blljxffxx Alone, for my part please please return to being concerned — and give money to Lamont
What Pach 105 said.
Good night, all. See you tomorrow, I hope.
Anti-war Connecticut U.S. Senate candidate Ned Lamont has gained ground on Sen. Joseph Lieberman, and now trails the incumbent 55 - 40 percent among likely Democratic primary voters, including undecided voters who are leaning towards a candidate, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.
Among all Democrats, Sen. Lieberman leads 57 - 32 percent, compared to 65 - 19 percent in a May 2 poll by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University.
All Connecticut voters approve 56 - 32 percent of the job Lieberman is doing. Democrats approve 49 - 38 percent, down from 60 - 31 percent May 2.
In possible general election matchups:
Lieberman defeats Republican challenger Alan Schlesinger 68 - 14 percent;
Lamont beats Schlesinger 37 - 20 percent, with 34 percent undecided;
Running as an independent, Lieberman gets 56 percent, to 18 percent for Lamont and 8 percent for Schlesinger.
Cugel, I think Vietnam in the sand is the key here. Joementum loves it, most everyone in Ct. (and the U.S.) has finally learned to hate it, and that should be the focus of Ned Lamont’s campaign. Over and over again.
No way will Ct. go Repub Senator..