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	<title>Comments on: Greetings From the Fever Swamp</title>
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		<title>By: The other Lebowski</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-141604</link>
		<dc:creator>The other Lebowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-141604</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Leisure Guy was right!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leisure Guy was right!</p>
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		<title>By: John Albert</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-139321</link>
		<dc:creator>John Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jun 2006 00:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-139321</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I saw your panel discussion broadcast on C-SPAN the other night, about the Plame incident, blogging and the future of news media and I got to thinking…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m too young to remember the days of Walter Cronkite and a supposedly independent news media that operated with a mission to present an unbiased, non-partisan view of events. Being a child of the Reagan era, I don’t ever remember a time when the mainstream media actually reported independently, without kowtowing to the current administration.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I remember back in 1992 just after Bill Clinton’s  victory in the presidential race was first announced, one major television network’s investigative news program took the opportunity to run stories about how hundreds of millions of American tax dollars had been used to subsidize exclusive country clubs and horseback riding lessons for the children of the wealthy. I remember thinking, “Why the hell did they wait until the Republicans were out of office to report on those topics, which were obviously chosen to provoke outrage among average Americans?” The answer today is painfully obvious. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It appears that the American public has come to rely on a corporate empire of news outlets. These organizations have been built on the business of dishing up sweet morsels of fluff, shocking action footage and commercial press releases, all the while toeing the line set down by the current presidential  administration. It’s news-as-entertainment. What’s worse, the general public is so conditioned to this candy-assed garbage that respectable news outlets, by contrast, appear esoteric and bland.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For this reason, I feel that if independent bloggers are ever going to effect meaningful change in the way the news is reported, or the way business is done in Washington, there’s going to have to be a radical paradigm shift with regard to the role of independent internet journalism vs. mainstream channels. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bloggers can call attention to the shortcomings of the mainstream media, present alternative opinions, and even conduct their own investigative inquiries, and that does make a difference. But in the eyes of the average American, the news media possesses more credibility merely by virtue of their being on television, in newsprint, and on the radio. The media is the message, and I believe that to most Americans, freely-accessible news from independent online sources are percieved as cheap and unreliable. It’s the same sort of stigma that has plagued internet journalistic channels since the heyday of grudgereport.com. Internet news is seen as quick-and-dirty, the rantings of lunatics and maybe good for a laugh.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In order to move into the mainstream and/or effect a lasting change on the media landscape, I think these online news reporters will have to call attention to themselves by their professionalism, and at the same time overcome the public perception of jankiness and cobble together some semblance of integrity and respectability without coming off as stuffy or radical. Think you can pull it off?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents on that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw your panel discussion broadcast on C-SPAN the other night, about the Plame incident, blogging and the future of news media and I got to thinking…</p>
<p>I’m too young to remember the days of Walter Cronkite and a supposedly independent news media that operated with a mission to present an unbiased, non-partisan view of events. Being a child of the Reagan era, I don’t ever remember a time when the mainstream media actually reported independently, without kowtowing to the current administration.</p>
<p>I remember back in 1992 just after Bill Clinton’s  victory in the presidential race was first announced, one major television network’s investigative news program took the opportunity to run stories about how hundreds of millions of American tax dollars had been used to subsidize exclusive country clubs and horseback riding lessons for the children of the wealthy. I remember thinking, “Why the hell did they wait until the Republicans were out of office to report on those topics, which were obviously chosen to provoke outrage among average Americans?” The answer today is painfully obvious. </p>
<p>It appears that the American public has come to rely on a corporate empire of news outlets. These organizations have been built on the business of dishing up sweet morsels of fluff, shocking action footage and commercial press releases, all the while toeing the line set down by the current presidential  administration. It’s news-as-entertainment. What’s worse, the general public is so conditioned to this candy-assed garbage that respectable news outlets, by contrast, appear esoteric and bland.</p>
<p>For this reason, I feel that if independent bloggers are ever going to effect meaningful change in the way the news is reported, or the way business is done in Washington, there’s going to have to be a radical paradigm shift with regard to the role of independent internet journalism vs. mainstream channels. </p>
<p>Bloggers can call attention to the shortcomings of the mainstream media, present alternative opinions, and even conduct their own investigative inquiries, and that does make a difference. But in the eyes of the average American, the news media possesses more credibility merely by virtue of their being on television, in newsprint, and on the radio. The media is the message, and I believe that to most Americans, freely-accessible news from independent online sources are percieved as cheap and unreliable. It’s the same sort of stigma that has plagued internet journalistic channels since the heyday of grudgereport.com. Internet news is seen as quick-and-dirty, the rantings of lunatics and maybe good for a laugh.</p>
<p>In order to move into the mainstream and/or effect a lasting change on the media landscape, I think these online news reporters will have to call attention to themselves by their professionalism, and at the same time overcome the public perception of jankiness and cobble together some semblance of integrity and respectability without coming off as stuffy or radical. Think you can pull it off?</p>
<p>Just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents on that.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn in MA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138965</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn in MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138965</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;PPS - i shall identify the people in the photo - Zennurse, Daniel Froomkin, and bobbyg.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PPS &#8211; i shall identify the people in the photo &#8211; Zennurse, Daniel Froomkin, and bobbyg.</p>
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		<title>By: jwp</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138915</link>
		<dc:creator>jwp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138915</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“The strength of the netroots is in the aggregate power of the individual voices. We don’t always speak with the same voice but, honestly, I don’t ever want us to do so. Issues get tested through the arguments…all of the arguments – and if a particular proposal or solution cannot stand up to some criticism, then it isn’t really a very good idea in the first place, now is it?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But when we do speak with the same voice – very powerful.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Christy&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Like I said before, we’ve been mostly politician/consultant/journalist free and have spent our time with our readers. I don’t think a whole lot of people who aren’t a part of the blogosphere realize that this is where our strength derives from, not from relationships with politicians or those in their orbits. But far be it from me to hip anyone to this fact.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jane&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A few months ago, Jane posted that Left Blogosphere was punk rock, and that everyone should enjoy it while it lasted.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now people seem to think that FDL is the vanguard of a millenial political movement.  Clouds in our coffee.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my view, the giddiness of my favorite political blogs seems familiar.  On various political campaigns that I have worked on, there was a similar sense of excitement.  Heck, even those long ago talks about big issues at young christian retreats had a somewhat similar thrill.  For an old, but perhaps slightly more hip frame of reference, I might mention Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters  – at least according to the mythology in The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;notions of glory&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, I have a couple comments.  For what it is worth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First, not all blogs need to be the same.  In fact, I would hope that they would be as diverse as a field of wild flowers.  And I am pretty sure that will happen.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Second, to the extent that blog folks want to acquire and exercise political power, then blog folks will eventually need to take  specialized initiatives.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It will require organization (eventually).  It will required organized thinking, and organized effort.  Eventually, that will mean money.  And employees.  And management problems.  And, probably, a bunch of wild-eyed bloggers tearing your butt off at every opportunity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And it will require effective communication with “politicians and those in their orbit.”  At least, as long as the people with power are people who get elected.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Punk rock.  I cringed when I read it.  I hope Jane was mistaken.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The strength of the netroots is in the aggregate power of the individual voices. We don’t always speak with the same voice but, honestly, I don’t ever want us to do so. Issues get tested through the arguments…all of the arguments – and if a particular proposal or solution cannot stand up to some criticism, then it isn’t really a very good idea in the first place, now is it?</p>
<p>But when we do speak with the same voice – very powerful.”</p>
<p>Christy</p>
<p>“Like I said before, we’ve been mostly politician/consultant/journalist free and have spent our time with our readers. I don’t think a whole lot of people who aren’t a part of the blogosphere realize that this is where our strength derives from, not from relationships with politicians or those in their orbits. But far be it from me to hip anyone to this fact.”</p>
<p>Jane</p>
<p>A few months ago, Jane posted that Left Blogosphere was punk rock, and that everyone should enjoy it while it lasted.</p>
<p>Now people seem to think that FDL is the vanguard of a millenial political movement.  Clouds in our coffee.</p>
<p>In my view, the giddiness of my favorite political blogs seems familiar.  On various political campaigns that I have worked on, there was a similar sense of excitement.  Heck, even those long ago talks about big issues at young christian retreats had a somewhat similar thrill.  For an old, but perhaps slightly more hip frame of reference, I might mention Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters  – at least according to the mythology in The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.</p>
<p>notions of glory</p>
<p>Anyway, I have a couple comments.  For what it is worth.</p>
<p>First, not all blogs need to be the same.  In fact, I would hope that they would be as diverse as a field of wild flowers.  And I am pretty sure that will happen.</p>
<p>Second, to the extent that blog folks want to acquire and exercise political power, then blog folks will eventually need to take  specialized initiatives.</p>
<p>It will require organization (eventually).  It will required organized thinking, and organized effort.  Eventually, that will mean money.  And employees.  And management problems.  And, probably, a bunch of wild-eyed bloggers tearing your butt off at every opportunity.</p>
<p>And it will require effective communication with “politicians and those in their orbit.”  At least, as long as the people with power are people who get elected.</p>
<p>Punk rock.  I cringed when I read it.  I hope Jane was mistaken.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn in MA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138404</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn in MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138404</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just a note here in the EPU Zone - the picture above was taken by Kathryn in MA - i forgot to identify myself as such in the emails to Jane.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note here in the EPU Zone &#8211; the picture above was taken by Kathryn in MA &#8211; i forgot to identify myself as such in the emails to Jane.</p>
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		<title>By: mauricehall</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138348</link>
		<dc:creator>mauricehall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 04:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138348</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ah, I’m EPU’d for sure!  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Vegas location was, to my mind, perfecto — not just because of gonzo journalism &amp; fear and loathing, but also because of this:  what better place to hold a meeting of this sort than in the belly of the beast?!  Yeah, Vegas is a freak show, but that’s part of its charm . . . &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve always loved NOLA, but now the LA gov has come on with this abortion ban plan, hopping on the South Dakota bandwagon to force a showdown on Roe v. Wade.  As a feminist, this gives me pause about supporting business in the state.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I’m EPU’d for sure!  </p>
<p>The Vegas location was, to my mind, perfecto — not just because of gonzo journalism &amp; fear and loathing, but also because of this:  what better place to hold a meeting of this sort than in the belly of the beast?!  Yeah, Vegas is a freak show, but that’s part of its charm . . . </p>
<p>I’ve always loved NOLA, but now the LA gov has come on with this abortion ban plan, hopping on the South Dakota bandwagon to force a showdown on Roe v. Wade.  As a feminist, this gives me pause about supporting business in the state.</p>
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		<title>By: reticulant</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138176</link>
		<dc:creator>reticulant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 00:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138176</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No &lt;i&gt;Kossack&lt;/i&gt; here, so we’ve mixed feelings about YK which we’ll keep to ourselves (we don’t “follow” Kos, Atrios et. al.; we do pay attention to FDL &amp; TNH for its Plame content).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However, while we think it naive to imagine perfect venues for any inaugural event, or nitpicking to dwell on location rather than content, we don’t see trolls or find it “way out of line” when someone questions Vegas if &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yearlykos.org/&quot;&gt;YK&lt;/a&gt; itself isn’t forthcoming — which it wasn’t, as far as we can tell (About, FAQ, comment Q&amp;As).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That said, we’ll note YK &lt;b&gt;did&lt;/b&gt; choose what could be the one Strip hotel owned, operated, financed by individuals who lean Democratic. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Crosschecking &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp&quot;&gt;CRP&lt;/a&gt;, we can confirm all principals (Westerman, Bluhm, Sternlicht, Torino, Sillerman) with the exception of Kanavos cited in &lt;a href=&quot;http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060406/nyth102.html?.v=48&quot;&gt;this  press release&lt;/a&gt; announcing Riviera’s merger are or have been, primarily, Democratic contributors.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No <i>Kossack</i> here, so we’ve mixed feelings about YK which we’ll keep to ourselves (we don’t “follow” Kos, Atrios et. al.; we do pay attention to FDL &amp; TNH for its Plame content).</p>
<p>However, while we think it naive to imagine perfect venues for any inaugural event, or nitpicking to dwell on location rather than content, we don’t see trolls or find it “way out of line” when someone questions Vegas if <a href="http://www.yearlykos.org/">YK</a> itself isn’t forthcoming — which it wasn’t, as far as we can tell (About, FAQ, comment Q&amp;As).</p>
<p>That said, we’ll note YK <b>did</b> choose what could be the one Strip hotel owned, operated, financed by individuals who lean Democratic. </p>
<p>Crosschecking <a href="http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp">CRP</a>, we can confirm all principals (Westerman, Bluhm, Sternlicht, Torino, Sillerman) with the exception of Kanavos cited in <a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060406/nyth102.html?.v=48">this  press release</a> announcing Riviera’s merger are or have been, primarily, Democratic contributors.</p>
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		<title>By: rcauthen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138146</link>
		<dc:creator>rcauthen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138146</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hamburger 159:&lt;br /&gt;
I disagree — there are prescriptive elements to Lakoff’s work as well as descriptive ones when he talks about politics.  He speaks of “reframing” all the time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hamburger 159:<br />
I disagree — there are prescriptive elements to Lakoff’s work as well as descriptive ones when he talks about politics.  He speaks of “reframing” all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Cancer Cures</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138102</link>
		<dc:creator>Cancer Cures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rosalind 47 - You’re right on. A funny comment to add on: Some would call the YK convention a far left event. Yet, filled with friendly people. Try reversing this scenario - Whennever there is a far right convention, it is usually filled with a lotta hate, prejudice, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I was kinda disapointed with CNN when they ran a story about neo-nazis and KKK klanners hosting an event (where like 50 people showed up) the very same weekend of Yearly Kos, yet they had no story on the YK convention.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rosalind 47 &#8211; You’re right on. A funny comment to add on: Some would call the YK convention a far left event. Yet, filled with friendly people. Try reversing this scenario &#8211; Whennever there is a far right convention, it is usually filled with a lotta hate, prejudice, etc.</p>
<p>I was kinda disapointed with CNN when they ran a story about neo-nazis and KKK klanners hosting an event (where like 50 people showed up) the very same weekend of Yearly Kos, yet they had no story on the YK convention.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Larson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/11/greetings-from-the-fever-swamp/#comment-138089</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How about a blue state?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seriously, Minnesota in June is beyond spectacular.  The spirit of Paul Wellstone still stalks the land.  We LOVE good writing.  We have a powerful progressive tradition from Donnelly to Veblen to the Farmer-Labor Party, to the politics of Keillor.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And June is beautiful–did I mention that?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We are not as easy or cheap to get to as Orlando or LV. But everything else is affordable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just a thought.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about a blue state?</p>
<p>Seriously, Minnesota in June is beyond spectacular.  The spirit of Paul Wellstone still stalks the land.  We LOVE good writing.  We have a powerful progressive tradition from Donnelly to Veblen to the Farmer-Labor Party, to the politics of Keillor.</p>
<p>And June is beautiful–did I mention that?</p>
<p>We are not as easy or cheap to get to as Orlando or LV. But everything else is affordable.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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