R O O T S ! ! !

Fitz, ya bastads!

Lamontz!

damn ya, cbl!

Ok a little late to the party. But if you like I’ll tell you about my dinner with a Congressman, giving her/him Glenn’s book, and discussing netroots. Anybody interested??

What does EPU’d mean?

(kidding, but hey – I haven’t seen anybody ask lately – it feels kinda out of synch without it)

We’re all ears, ‘gregie!

egregious – are you kidding? Details – the more the better!

I was right! From the previous post:

This will probably be EPU’d but in Georgia10 front page diary she quotes:

BRISTOL – Reacting for the first time to a new poll showing he could win election as an independent, Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman said Friday he remains focused on winning a Democratic primary, yet refused to rule out an independent run.

“I am not going to close out any options,” Lieberman said.

Now the thing is, I heard that in order to run as an independent Joe would have to file to do so before the Dem. primary.

So what’s going on here?

Is Joe or Joe’s machine or the DLC or whatever is pushing this, simply blowing smoke up everyone’s ass? That there is really no point in voting for Lamont in the primary because Joe is gonna win regardless?

Or have the rules been changed in order to accomodate him?

egregious – Did this take place at YKOS?

Better happy than bat shit crazy, Pach.

;>)

Hey Pachacutec, have a Cuba Libra for me! Cheers!

Hello from Burlington Colorado!!

The gathering about the roots project is EXACTLY the sort of connections that should be coming out of YKos2006. I would be sad if it weren’t so.

Nice to watch a movement grow, even if it is from a fair distance to the action.

egregious: definately interested…so come on, dish :)

Hey Pach, you still here?

OFG’s in the house! But where’d egregious go?

Seriously Off-Topic:
“Three detainees hang themselves at Guantanamo”

OilfieldGuy, whassup??? Still tingling from Vegas???

It was kewl meeting so many people, but everyone got to see the main events but me. I flew home Friday and been on the road all day today. Bummer!

Just had a question for Pach on the netroots project.

Dang. A drive by poster. Can’t blame him there!

Bionic #8 – the door for an Indie run for Lieberman closes at 4PM on August 9th; less than 24 hours after the polls close on the August 8th primary.

In order for Joe to file as an Indie, he needs to turn in 7,500 verifiable signatures by then. That means if he loses the primary, in order to run as an Indie he’ll either have to collect signatures within a day, or turn in signatures that were collected while he was running as a Democrat.

So Joe’s gonna have to decide early on if he thinks he has enough support to win the primary, because there won’t be any realistic way for him to collect enough names after losing the primary.

And if Joe manages to get the names, I’m sure the Lamont supporters will enthusiastically challenge and verify EVERY single one of them. As to the date and time they signed it, etc. Any descrepencies and the signatures get tossed.

I can picture a LOT of people keeping Joe honest.

pach, thank you! thank you!! love celia cruz. you made our night here. whenever i’m low on energy i blast rio y llora [laugh and cry] and it always turns me around. every single time. i highly recommend it to everyone.

i’m listening and smiling as i type. bless you.

John Casper

The deaths of these detainees (NOT–prisoners) has been all over the local NYC news.

I am torn:

Do I feel despair that they felt so hopeless that offing themsleves felt like release??

OR

Did the “martyr” themsleves in response to the Zarquawi take out, to deprive the U.S. of a feeling of progress/vindication.

On Net Neutrality-

Cannonfire has a couple of very good suggestion for taking some action.

OT *ilson check updated mod com.

Now that was good, darkblack.

CT Bob

Even I, who am regularly accused of being naive, KNOW that Joe is having his Indy petitons printed as we speak.

He would be an idiot not to walk the indy petions, just in case

He would be an idiot not

Thanks Pach – beautiful on all the levels I’ve been thinking of today and tonight – plus celia is a goddess, wonderful video. I’m gonna meet you sometime, you’re in my old Mt Vernon Ave hood, no?

Have I said it enough tonight? Any system that could be so corrupted as to elevate the likes of Dipshit to leader of our nation needs to be dismantled root and branch. James Madison the father of our constitution is watching and looking at us ordinary thinking informed people, and waiting.

lhp,

It is my understanding that Guantanamo detainees have not been given access to news sources for the last 4 1/2 years. They may not have heard of Zarqawi, or even the Iraq War.

sorry Sharky,

thought you’d all be deep in to late nite when I found it open – and you of all people should talk with all your Fitz!’s

thanks for the Celia Pach! made everyone get off the sofa and dance – not pretty, but lots of fun

OFG,
apparently you were quite the prom date in Vegas – all the women talkin’ ’bout ya !

VG

you got a little line under your name, but linky to bloggy no werky. RU shy?

looseheadprop,

Regardless of their motivations, smpathies, or perhaps even crimes, you can despair that they were held without charge by *our* government in absolute and abject denial of everything our constitution stands for, beginning with due process.

CT Bob @ 23

Thanks for your response! I really wondered about this, because what you explained is what I had read, so when I hear people talking about Joe as an independent, I think who are they trying to kid?

Could they really go out while campaigning as a Dem and ask people to support him as an Independent? Heck, why not get them to support him as the Republican candidate too, just in case?

But then I think about it and I worry about teams going out in wee small hours and getting those 7500 signatures. You’re only talking a hundred folks to get 75 a piece, I am pretty sure the Repubs could spare the labor. Think of all the groups that are ready willing and able to make sure their guy gets in.

I hope the Dems are preparing everyone who supports Democratic principles to not let this pass.

OT. I feel a campaign message coming on but I can’t quite get it together. If anyone else can make this better, I’d appreciate it:

They lied when they said Al Gore took credit for the internet. But Al Gore will prevent the ruination of the internet if he’s elected. (This is if it hasn’t already been ruined or if so, then something like- Al Gore will be instrumental in the rebirth of the internet as you used to enjoy it….)

BornAgain Internet, Courtesy of Al Gore

cbl,
Oh,?? This is news to me. I just logged on for the first time since early Friday am. I went back and read the posts but didn’t go into the comments. I felt very unimpressive in the pressence of such astonishing women. Praise from any one of them is high praise indeed.

I spent some time in a mixed gender celibate monastic community a while back. One of the women there told me one day, that she could tell I was visibly struggling with emotion, fear hopelessness etc. What she said really stuck with me, and I’ve found it very true over the years. It was funny because she was this gruff tough talking country woman who seemed to not have a soft side. She saw me trudging along feeling down one day and hit me with this, and it was what I needed at the time.

<pithy>
“When you are in a rough emotional state, there are three things you can do, each one is effective because they are ‘full body expression’, you can laugh, cry, or sing. Somehow each one gives your whole body a chance to express what ails you.”
</pithy>

Listening to Celia kind of brought that back.

egregious — hope you’re typing away at that review of your dinner with the Congressman! Wonder if the mods here will let you have a spot for a day post with it, seeing as it’s all about delivering HWAPA via the ‘roots?

OFG- ?? I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. If it is something on a previous thread, well, it was a limited time offer. ;)

Drinks are on Pach! He said so!

Hello dear friends-

Just a quick hello, my son and I have moved on to San Mateo to see my firstborn, and they have just arrived with pizza, but I wanted to claim my seat and tell you again that each and every one of you were right there in Vegas with us. It was a fascinating time and I will put a thought or two online tomorrow about some of the things I did that others may not have. When I figure out my camera, I’ll put up my poor little photos. BobbyG and op99 did much better than I did with pics.

Sweet Dreams for Now.

Namaste
zen

Ok so dinner with the Congressperson. It was in Washington not alas ykos. Next year in Jerusalem…er or something.

I could cook or we could go out to eat. HAHAHAHA! So the restaurant it is.

Congressperson and spouse, my spouse, and a couple other lovely people. Walking to the restaurant we caught a glimpse of the -very- long Pride parade. Good floats.

Gave them Glenn’s book with a description of why he wrote it; how quickly it was published; how it zoomed to the top of amazon; and why it is important for public policy. Further conversation about the netroots in general, yKos this weekend which they had sort of heard of, and the political energy and ideas which the roots can generate.

More about the direction of the government toward concentration of power in the executive etc etc. The initial pages of Glenn’s book sparked their interest, they had heard of the people giving these rave reviews for the book.

I cannot tell you names or even the party. I can say it is one of the good people.

It is difficult for people in the House, they have so little power and there are so many expectations for them. Plus it’s ridiculously expensive, an economic hardship, they need to own a house here $$$$$ plus one in the home district. All in all we feel a little sorry for Congresspeople. Senators, different story.

This one has an old-fashioned integrity, a sense of honor and responsibility to the nation. Ambition, greed, not so much. Just a desire to serve. How refreshing.

VG – I think Oilfield guy is talking about what appears to be a hyperlink at the top of your post, you know, “Valley Girl says:”

Anne- well it’s late, and I’m still not *getting it*! And, I don’t think I will, this eve….

Thanks for posting the Cruz video–she is awesome!

Welcome back, zen!

Valley Girl — it’s where you typed in “http:///” without a website link — it makes your name show up as underlined — beautiful picture of yourself earlier….

Valley Girl – he’s referring to the hyeprlink under your name.

VG – when you’re in mod mode, you are “logged in” and that makes your name appear to be hyperlinked. Look at the heading in your post #40: see how “Valley Girl” is underlined? I think he tried clicking on it, and it went nowhere.

More to John Casper

What, if anything, do we know about the suicidees?

Do we have enough info to determine whether they are “martyrs” on their way to that bevvy of virgins in the hereafter? or whether they
were just poor schlumps sick of Kraft mac and cheese?

Which evidently meets the religious test for food in prison. Don’t ask.

OK ask. I got caught in the middle once in a lawsuit about prisoners lodged in the MCC (metropolitan CorrectionCenter) after dinner. They used to get a baloney sandwiches until a Hasidic prisoner brought suit complaining that the MCCC post dinner hour menue violated jewish AND islamic law.

We had to switch to PB and J (except for diabetic prisoners). Can I tell you how great that warden was. He looked after his prisoners like they were his children.

Anyway, It turns out that there are almost no complaints about Mac and Cheese on religious/civil rights grounds. Nor PB&J.

So
if you are running a prison, and don’t want to be sued, what so you serve?

Cheerios
PB&J
Kraft Mac
and Cheese

Imagine thinking that menue is the entire rest of your life. What would you do?

So, what do we know?

lhp, I don’t know.
There has been a lot of talk about hunger strikes there and forced intervenous feedings.
My guess is that these were three men who were tired of “being buried alive.” I remember the line from the Shawshank Redemption, either get busy living or get busy dying. I am very sorry that they chose not to wait until they were released, but given what they had been through, that may not have been realistic. Maybe they thought their “martyrdom” would speed the release of their fellow detainees? Maybe hanging themselves was just preferable to their situation.
I am just speculating wildly here, as I have no facts.

Sorry for the delay, we have a houseguest and I had to at least appear to be polite :)

Oops – that should be hyperlink in my 8:55 post.

Anne- oh, okay. I get it now.

Johm Casper, do you know how many people were involved in the hunger strike?

All right, the outfit. Ecru cotton sleeveless top w matching hip-length sweater. Linen pants. Gold barely there sandals. Emerald necklace and bracelet. Kate Spade tan purse. Pretty good for a hillbilly girl. Usually I dress in the first thing I can find in the morning :)

Sharkbabe mentioning Madison – we’re sitting here (and one of us is choked up) watching Washington and the troops at Trenton – it’s what I always think of when I’m feeling helpless or WATB – supsect many of us have a deepening appreciation and pride in all the Founders overcame for the Noble Experiment

I was wondering on Thursday if Vegas was our Continental Congress – (correct me if I’m wrong resident historians)remember reading in a John Adams biography of how Abigail told him so many not attending felt as if they were there b/c all their hopes had been sent, like so much provisions with the congressmen, and lauded them for their “informative posts”

From 30 May 2006
The number of Guantanamo detainees taking part in a hunger strike has risen to about 75, U.S. military officials said, according to AFP.

Hi y’all — Listening to Harry Reid and missing OFG and Zenn. For those who haven’t met him, OFG is a total fox in a cuddly kind of way. BobbyG is also damn fine lookin’. Of course, at my age, my assessments of such things are purely academic.

We all have “Give ‘em hell Harry” signs at our tables, and Reid is giving the crowd plenty of reasons to wave them. I don’t know if this is on CSpan, but it’s worth watching. He’s just announced that he’s inroducing a bill to require the intelligence community to verify, in writing, every word the Administration says about Iran. Standing ovation on that one. More in a bit.

Could they really go out while campaigning as a Dem and ask people to support him as an Independent? Heck, why not get them to support him as the Republican candidate too, just in case?

Realizing I’m not CTBob and you had addressed this question to him, I thought being another nutmegger I could, at least, address this question.

The Republicans have a candidate so if Lieberman lost he’d have to go indy or not at all.

Incidentally, I was surprised this week by seeing a number of Lamont lawn signs springing up all over the place…nary a single Lieberman sign. ;)

Comment from moderator- oy oh please remember to close your tags!!!! WP does not do this automatically.

John C

They hung themslves? That is is way harsh.

That sounds like despair.

Bionic #35 – Actually, getting 7,500 sigs in the alloted time (somewhere between Joe’s concession speech at say 11PM and the 4PM deadline to TURN THEM IN then next day) might be a bit of a struggle.

They will definitely turn in maybe 10,000 sigs by the deadline, but the first thing we need to do is challenge them and work to verify 1) that they are indeed signed by registered voters, and 2) they were signed during the allowable time.

I don’t think Lieberman’s campaign are allowed to collect signatures for an Indie run WHILE he’s in the race as an active Democrat. Is anyone familiar with campaign laws in Connecticut? (Note to Self: find out about petition regulations)

Tomorrow I’ll have a 6-minute video of Ned Lamont’s entire interview from earlier today on my blog, but right now I have the video of Ned challenging Joe to a debate.

Believe me when I say that we’re all rooting for this to happen.

I thought this sounded kind of odd because there was no other information:
Base commander Rear Admiral Harry Harris, has stated, “This was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetric warfare committed against us.”

italics off

Crap, I forgot to hit preview and left the italics on the whole thing. Pardon my utter ineptness. :)

For those remotely paying any attention to my post, my response began with “Realizing.”

CNN article on Gitmo suicides:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/……suicides/

Thanks to all the Firepups in Las Vegas and those who have already left. You were very literally for some of us the canaries in the coal mine ; ) It’s going to be a VERY crowded coal mine next year!!!

And can I just say the Plame Panel was a GRAND SLAM HOME RUN?

Anywho, Las Vegas always brings back memories for me that I’ll never forget. I was at the Rio on 9/11/2001. It was surreal to say the least.

Coincidentally, I’m a HUGE Sheryl Crow fan and one of my favorite songs was, and still is, “Leaving Las Vegas”. After 9/11, it was probably a good six months before I could listen to it again.

So thanks again, Firepups. This is dedicated to you as you leave Las Vegas….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..ch=leaving las vegas sheryl crow

john Casper

Have I ever told you? You are the conscience of us all?

You are!

It only stands to reason that the captives at Guantanamo would be suffering from deep, deep depression. Repeated harsh interogation, likely including torture. No contact with the outside world. No idea if or when they would get out. I can imagine death looking quite appealing.

Forgot to mention — Sharkbabe, tonight’s comedian (we’ve been having Laughing Liberally performances at the major events) said he’s going to have a website titled sharkbaby.com. Hi s real name, I think, is Lee Camp. Anyway, heads up (as it were.)

cbl @ 58
I think many of us are feeling the same way. And don’t forget that the aspirations of the revolutionaries had many supporters in the home country. This will spread like ripples in a pond.

(My name now links to my husband’s blog. I mentioned it when we were waiting for the Plame panel. I didn’t realize you had to belong to blogger to post, but I have changed that now. You can post anonymously. If you send him a little love, you would thrill him beyond words. But if you use your screen name so I know it was you, it would thrill me beyond words. ;o)
He’s a painter of nudes, so if that offends you, don’t go there.)

As exhausted as if I’d been in Vegas. Tons o fun and edification with everybody here – gone tomorrow with offline obligations – I love you all, so much

CTBob – Found this on CT election laws:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub…..9-453i.htm

Haven’t perused it yet, but have at it. ;)

You’re probably right.
It may have been, they wanted to make sure they finished the job.
They may have been on a suicide watch where sharp objects were kept away. Somehow I doubt that.
Mary is going to be really really pissed at Cheney, Addington and Woo now. She has really kept this whole issue and the legal prostitution that has accompanied it on the FDL radar.

And yes SharonW…oh, I mean SharonW…heeheehee…you’re right that Lieberman can’t run as a Republican.

The same weekend that Ned Lamont scored his impressive 33.4% delegate count (”Ned who?” no more), the Republicans had their convention (in a two-car garage outside of Hawleyville, I think) and named some yoyo to be the party sacrificial lamb.

The deadline for the Republican candidate is past; Joe’s got to run as either a Dem or Indie (with enough petitions).

Thank you, John.

It’s hard to understand what is really happening at Gitmo. It’s there and no one is charged and there is torture going on and what are they learning from these men? Why no charges? They haven’t been declared terrorists, but enemy combatants? What would have happened if their near riot would have been successful? The international community calling for it to be closed and Chimpy saying, yeah, I wanna close it, too. Kinda, sorta.

Happy to help w wild random italics. Kind of like wild horses.

I feel humble talking about what I was wearing and what I discussed with a powerful person while 3 people killed themselves because of false imprisonment. The despair/death thing is all too easy to understand, I stroll by this territory often. Sometime I would like to write more about mental illness on my own extremely small blog.

What is difficult is to hold two things high in my mind simultaneously: (1) yay trying to persuade a Congressperson re netroots/Glenn and (2) the idea that we are, against the Constitution, imprisoning people without charges, without lawyers, without habeus corpus, without due process, without hope, without end. Death seems reasonable under such circumstances.

WHAT KIND OF A COUNTRY HAVE WE BECOME that we seize, torture, imprison, deny any hope of judicial review?

And they wonder why I drink.

Sharon, thanks for the link. I bookmarked it for reading tomorrow. I’m getting punchy, so I think bedways is rightways for me.

‘night all!

BarbaraB 60

[ blush ]

YOU are a total Babe, m’Dear. To meet you is my grand fortune (same for ALL of the FDL tribe).

I’m home with my honey. I think we’re in for the night.

I got home and looked in my paper. The R-J gave YKos front page coverage, and the Sun had a piece on Wesley Clark’s science forum.

In the business section was an AP article TOTALLY fucking spun as pro- let-the-Suits-make-the-net-a-toll-road. It gives token play to ‘net neutrality concerns, but is way skewed toward all these ostensible benefits we’ll get if we in effective completely privatize it.

Sux.

Thanks SharonW and CT Bob,
The remark about the Repub candidacy was some snark, but I am curious if they can “preload” for an Independent run.

CT Bob, I was just thinking about organizations like churches and synogogues who could rachet up fear and make people feel compelled to come in first thing in the morning after a primary defeat and sign people up.

How many churches etc are there in CT where something like that could happen?

egregious 78

The C/O at Gitmo had the unabashed gall to claim “these weren’t suicides, they were an act of asymmetric warfare.”

That’s the dumbest fucking thing I ever heard. He should be frigging hounded to explain that in full.

But why is all the rum gone?

//obligatory POTC quote

Pach, looking forward to your post-con remarks!

Aaah, Celia!

CODE BROWN !!!!!!!

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Before his death, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had recruited hundreds of people who received terrorist training in Iraq and then returned to their home countries to await orders, The New York Times reported in Sunday editions.

Citing high-ranking security officials in Jordan, the Times said that in addition to recruiting volunteers and suicide bombers to fight in Iraq, Zarqawi had recruited some 300 people who received terrorist training in Iraq before returning home to await orders to carry out strikes…
_____

OOOOooooohhhhhhh !!!!!

Protect us, fearless War President, pleeeeezze!!!!

“these weren’t suicides….”
black is white
up is down
economy is great
Bush is Christian
US: land of the free

They committed an act of war agaisnt that guy’s career. Embarrassing as hell, happened on his watch, and being active duty military means he can’t be awarded a Medal of Freedom.

His next duty station will be a phone booth at Pt. Barrow, Alaska. Maybe we could get Ed*ard Teller to call him.

Base commander Rear Admiral Harry Harris, has stated, “This was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetric warfare committed against us.”

General Jack D. Ripper: “Your Commie has no regard for human life. Not even his own”

I hate these monsters

egregious, That’s what I keep asking myself. Where’s my country, and who are these idiots purporting to be righteous and patriotic but they’re just bullies who love power for its own sake?
This is not how we won WW2 or the Cold War.

Thanks for correcting me on the quote specs:

“Navy Rear Admiral Harry Harris, commander of Guantanamo, described the suicides were an act of warfare.

…”They are smart. They are creative, they are committed. They have no regard for life, neither ours nor their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us,” Rear Adm. Harris said….

Bionic, answering again in place of CTBob since he went nightie night, it seems it might be possible to preload. I’m looking at the election laws right now and since I’m no Redd, nor even close to anything remotely lawyerly other than by blood, it’s a little bit of a slog to get through.

And considering the late hour, I probably shouldn’t even be trying.

That being said, consider the awkwardness of getting signatures for an independent run while running as a Dem in the primary. If the word got out that Lieberman was, in a sense, stuffing the back channel, I don’t think it would play terribly well.

BarbaraB,

I’ll never question your judgement! Nite firepups!

http://apoeticjustice.blogspot…..y-lie.html

SharonW
Please don’t make your eyes cross at this time of night!

I’ve become much more paranoid these last few years.

People were lulled into a kind of lazy lakadaisical arttitude about our governers while the right was building their organization. They’ve planned this for a long time, they won’t “go quietly into the good night”.

I don’t think it is chance that they look to the religious right as their base. I think the planners very pragmatically decided to co opt an organization system that was already set up to dispense information and encourage like minded thinking processes.

Oh and I meant to say, that with that organization they could conceivably get the signatures they need within the legal time limit by making a plan b that said: in the event that Joe loses the primary, we set up in these 100/200/300 places of worship/other likely organizations and each site commits to getting 100 signatures by noon.

That’s how I would do it if I were Joe.

meta (64) — re: Harris and “asymmetric warfare”…hmm. Now isn’t that interesting? I just noted the front page on AOL has a lede to the effect that women’s lingerie were found in al Zarqawi’s hideout. There’s more than one example of “assymetric warfare” out there…

Tentative, shaky new foal trying to stand on her newborn legs.

Bionic (95) — you know, I think that approach will depend on whether the Repugs want Joe or Lamont to run. If they think Joe-mentum will draw votes away from Repugs, they’ll find ways to discourage the church/synagogue petition effort. If they want an Indie to draw votes off the Dems, they’ll encourage it. Could be interesting.

OK, can’t read comments tonight, but.. way back when, back in the day,deep in the woods, my link to adults was Sesame Street and Celia Cruz was my lifeline counting to 10 with the bird puppets

Oooh, Pach-
Thanks for the Celia! I feel so inspired right now, with all the positive FDL vibes from this weekend!

Bionic, you’re only paranoid until proven that you were incorrect in assuming they’re out to get ya. That being said, my dear man or woman, you merely have a heightened sense of awareness. :)

Your snark about Lieberman running as a Republican though, wasn’t too far off. He enjoys broad popularity because the Repubs here like him so much. Any wonder?

I remember telling Lamont back in April, don’t worry about the general polls. Look at the breakdown to Dems instead of whole.

Anyway, I don’t think we have a lot of religious right in CT, if that’s any solace.

rayne @ 98
I just hope that by the time the elections role around things will be out on the table about the Republican corruption, so much so that people will decided the only one to vote for with be someone with a D after their name.

But I worry, what with the “Toronto Terrorists” arrests — good for security scares and anti-immigration fervor, the death of al Zaqarwi — almost as good as OBL, what else will happen that will remind people that only the Republicans can keep them safe.

VERY interesting to see JWP and other commenters criticize Jane for her comments on Boxer’s endorsement of Lieberman.

Indeed, it appears that several new posters materialized just in time to take issue with Jane’s criticisms of Boxer.

By way of background, keep in mind that Jane and others here at FDL have been taking a strong stand against Lieberman and his apologists for months now – and the commenters here at FDL have generally reached a consensus that Lieberman has failed to represent key progressive values and has taken every opportunity to undermine his party while taking sides with the worst president in recorded history.

So, why the sudden uproar about this post by Jane?

What distinguishes this posting by Jane from her prior comments on Lieberman is the fact that (a) the posting happened simultaneously with YearlyKos – a very high profile event that has certainly brought more new posters and lurkers onto the site and (b) it is directly confronting someone in the Democractic leadership who, up until now, had been high on the list of politicians with progressive interests aligned with FDL.

In my opinion, this confluence of events has opened the door a crack for a certain breed of Democratic concern trolls, who believe that Jane has made a strategic mistake by attacking a staunch ally who recently appeared at a high-profile blogger event. It is, the concern trolls think, an opportunity to tighten the leash on the FDL pups a bit (pun intended).

Now that we, the progressive blogs, are being seen in the mainstream media (CSPAN) and we are increasingly courting (and being courted by) allies in the democratic leadership, it is expected that we, in turn, take a step closer to the MSM and mainstream politics by moderating our tone and our message.

The recent post by Jane was probably seen by some in the party establishment as a chance to rap her on the wrists and remind her that she has to “play ball” now that she is playing in the big leagues.

Nice try.

Boxer could have talked about the Lieberman/Lamont race in any number of different ways. She chose to endorse Lieberman and she chose to cite shoddy reasons for doing so.

She was mistaken to do so, and Jane called her out on it. Hopefully, Boxer will learn from the experience and adjust her position. At the very least, she has received an education in the fact that, while we at FDL will continue to support her, our support is not blind and it is not unconditional.

That is the point here. We can criticize a candidate and still support them against Republicans, as is the case with Boxer, who will quite correctly continue to be a generally admired and promoted candidate here at FDL. And we can identify candidates who, like Lieberman, are actually Republicans in Democratic clothing. Our goal here is to try to speak truth to our representatives to the fullest extent practicable, while supporting the goals of the party and the progressive movement in the long run as well.

Jane’s particular post on Boxer clearly serves the first goal, and her work on this website over the years proves that Jane in working tirelessly toward the latter goal as well.

I thank her.

Bionic & Rayne, this ain’t the south. I could be wrong, not being a church goer myself (a Unitarian in my earlier years), but church driven politics is not a big thing here. It’s a totaly different dynamic.

I just don’t see them mixing political endorsements with church here.

looseheadprop @ 8:33 pm (#25) – The same question occured to me. Unfortunately, we will probably never have a definitive answer.

Great video, Pachacutec. I’ve always had a soft spot for the Latin beat.

Kinda off topic I was talking a neighbor of mine here in Toronto.

She was talking about her ex in laws. They have lived in Florida for a few years but used to live in Rosedale, about the swankiest old name neighbourhood in Toronto.

My neighbor was shocked when her mother in law said to her, the last time she saw her “I don’t believe in abortion anymore.”

She said her ex in laws have Fox TV on all the time.

I found it interesting that she expressed herself in terms of belief. Why didn’t she say something like “I don’t support government funding of abortion” or “I don’t think we should allow abortion”.

But her words were “believe in”. It has that right truthy ring to it doesn’t it?

Thanks for the eye candy, Bionic, and egregious, soon you will be running with the big dogs.

Bookmarked both.

ykos makes it across the pond:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk…..01,00.html

Harry Reid and Net Neutrality — Matt Stoller

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/6/10/23516/7660

Harry Reid just told me that he strongly supports net neutrality and that he will not support anything going through the Senate that does not include protections for it.

UPDATE: Reid is giving his keynote, and he’s talking about the failures of the 1996 Telecommunications Act and the problem with consolidation. He’s saying that what has saved us is the blogs. To be heard, you don’t need money, you need ideas.

cbl @ 9:33 pm (#88) – One of the first things soldiers have to do is dehumanize the enemy. It’s one of the ways they make it possible for otherwise decent people to kill them. That mindset sometimes evokes statements like the admiral’s. I don’t know if it’s that or simple prejudice that shaped his thinking, but it’s something to keep in mind.

Hi everyone. The last program session of Yearly Kos for the night is over and there is no official afterparty. I don’t want it to end. RevDeb is letting me use her laptop for a moment. Yearly Kos has exceeded my wildest expectations. I send my greetings to all of you who could not be here. Harry Reid gave a good speech tonight and the crowd was enthusiastic, cheering and waving “Give Em Hell Harry” signs. I think all of the politicians who have been here have been very respectful of the netroots. I haven’t had time to read the comments so I hope I haven’t been too redundant. I don’t want to leave but I do look forward to getting back to my PC. Best wishes to all.

I am regretting that I did not get in on YearlyKos. I would belong in the gay section, not the girls section, but from what Jane says everybody gets to sit together. The whole inclusive thing that republicans don’t want to see.

In that light, I am quite surprised by the coverage of YearlyKos in the Los Angeles Daily News. The Daily News is the other major paper serving Los Angeles, in most places the only alternative to the Los Angeles Times. An article by Scott Shepard of Cox News Service actually appeared on the front page of the June 10 issue – above the headlines(!) – “Transforming politics, one blog at a time”

The article itself is a simple spinless report of the goings on at the convention, who is there, and what they are saying. It has been so long since I read a political report without a blatant point of view that I may be out of practise, but it looked unspinned to me. Marcos Moulitsas is extensively quoted, and Jane Hamsher rounds out the coverage and gets the final word. I don’t know if it is on line or how to link to it if it is, but they mention an online poll at dailynews.com – “Can the internet influence the political climate?”

Don’t forget that Markos is on Meet the Press tomorrow. Will be the first time I watched the show in years.

Tennis is interfering with the schedule, so, in my city, the show airs at 8 AM

abc (103) — GMTA, that crossed my mind as well, that we had a few more newbies than usual with an preponderance of concern that we usually don’t have when talking about Lamont v. Lieberman.

I’ve been wondering what DCCC, DSCC and DLC would do to maintain their grasp on the illusion of control, too.

BTW, I checked the Los Angeles Times also for Saturday – Nothing on YearlyKos, as expected.

egregious @ 8:51 pm (#43) – Thanks for passing the book along. Hopefully the congressman and his staff will read it.

lina @109

Here’s what I found funny in that piece:

However, despite the triumphant arrival of the bloggers in the heart of the American political system and plans for the convention to be a regular stop for politicians, the bloggers had not entirely left behind their humble roots. Maureen Dowd, writing in the New York Times, described the scene: ‘They blogged, BlackBerried, texted and cell-phoned – sometimes contacting someone only a few feet away. They were paler and more earnest than your typical Vegas visitors, but the mood was like a masquerade.’

The point was really that, not only were they contacting someone a few feet away, at the same time they were contacting a myriad of people from all over the country and around the world.

I think that is what so many of these media people just don’t get. Or that people are thrilled to meet someone known as Reddhedd or Darksyde as much as Kos.

And I think that for many of the people there, they aren’t chasing after Kos like a celebrity but as a fellow blogger, someone they already know. I have read so many people being thrilled to finally each other and as SusanG so rightly put it “we (all the ykos attendees) are the celebrities”.

abc,

“VERY interesting to see JWP and other commenters criticize Jane for her comments on Boxer’s endorsement of Lieberman.

Indeed, it appears that several new posters materialized just in time to take issue with Jane’s criticisms of Boxer.

BRAVO! Post of the day, night? ; )

Ooops

being thrilled to finally each other

Left out the verb, I see. I guess I’ll leave it up to the attendees to fill that one in. After all what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

lol bionic.

EPU’d repost –

I’m inclined to cut Senator Boxer some slack here — this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.

While it would have been nice if Boxer had parsed her language in a way that would make us happy, in doing so she could have created an even bigger problem. There is no way a Democratic Senator can openly diss a fellow Democratic Senator by supporting a primary rival, without creating huge problems.

Better that she slice it on the side of decorum and take her lumps from us, than blow up the comity of the DSCC caucus. It’s our job to transform the DSCC from an incumbent protection racket to a Democratic core values interest group — but that will take time, and if Lamont is the real deal, he will win no matter how many endorsements Lieberman corrals.

Remember — only two US Senators vote in Connecticut.

My two cents . . .

I had a talk with the ladies working the NARAL information table here at he LWV Nat’l convention today. I told them I could no longer support NARAL because of it’s denial of reality when it comes to Leiberman. They didn’t even know that the Nat’l office had thrown its support to him! I let them know a whole lot of people around the country were sick of Joe’s phony pro-choice stance and have decided not to contribute, except perhaps at the local level. They asked me to provide them with more info on the mid-90’s bill sponsored by Helms, supported by Joe, denying any medical facilities that perform abortions getting federal funding. It seems there’s some ignorance across the local affiliates about what their national office has done. But these ladies were genuinely interested in finding out more. Not blind supporters, from what I can tell.

So the LWV convention is not nearly as hip as the YKos one, and yet I’m getting over my envy of not being there because Jane, Christy and Pach have done such a wonderful job of including all of us. I feel really proud of the FDL presence in Las Vegas. I just know in my soul they are making a big splash, and that can only bode well for the future.

Love all the pics!

Bionic #120 – I second that emotion!

Thanks Cozumel!

To follow up on my earlier point, I think that the newly arrived commenters are NOT posting about Jane’s criticism because they actually believe that Jane shouldn’t undermine one of FDL’s traditional allies. That is the way that the new commenters have chosen to frame their argument, but, as I have said, this rationale just doesn’t fly. After all, the whole point of FDL is to educate – and that means that we have a particular duty to educate those who are already “on our side”. This is what is known as “tough love” – and it works.

My intuition is that the new commenters are actually worried about something else. They are worried that Jane’s criticism will get through to Boxer. Yearly Kos represents an historic moment – a chance for bloggers like Jane to look Boxer in the eye and tell her that she’s wrong on Lieberman. And I think there are people who are worried that Boxer just might listen. These commenters are right to be worried.

Boxer is a smart woman, and Jane’s post was just enough of a splash of cold water to wake her up without scaring her off.

The best part about this post and my earlier one is that I know Jane already “gets it”. She is going to continue to boldly proclaim the truth as long as it is productive to do so. I trust her judgement, rather than that of our newfound commenter friends, as to the productivity of her criticism. But I thank them for their concern…

Well dude, I’m happy that you’re happy. Sounds like the YK is a very cool and productive gathering of the tribe. Bodes well for us all.

I’m pretty happy too. Finally got in some quality fly fishing yesterday and have the first disc of Miles’ Pangaea on the high-fi. The original funk-metal. Sipping a Deschutes Obsidian Stout with some Macallan 18yr on deck. Don’t get much better than that, my friend. Finer things in life indeed.

hey firepups … try a little cool down with song tunes going round and round … like history… again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KC7uhMY9s

Unfortunately, I came to the previous thread too late to comment on it, but taking abc’s comment as a precedent, maybe it would be okay to respond here.

In my opinion, Jane’s outrage at BB’s support of Lieberman is fair, if harsh. Lieberman is unbearably sanctimonious, and what’s more, his contempt for women’s issues is clearly a personal one, not a carefully triangulated political calculation.

It’s hard for me to believe that anyone who knows him as well as BB does could have missed that about him. If she’s as strong a supporter of women’s issues as she’s purported to be, I for one can not understand why she wouldn’t have the same gag reflex when his name is mentioned as Jane does.

Does honey attract more flies than vinegar? Yes. Does winning an election mean appealing to people who don’t share our views on all issues? Yes, again.

On the other hand, there’s no point in asking people to be polite if your only purpose in doing so is to make them easier to ignore.

Joe Lieberman makes war on us on a daily basis; one of the ways we can return the favor is to let anyone who prefers his company to ours know just how strongly we resent their choice of friends.

That may not win us any elections, but it does help frame the issue as one that we consider deadly serious. Joe Lieberman wants to deny women the right to control their own bodies; I consider that a serious matter, very serious. If BB thinks that her support from him in rolling a few logs for California is more important than his open assault on the rights of half our population, then I for one am glad to see Jane take her to task for it.

ck @ 10:43 pm (#122) – I agree with your assessment. Senators have to work together, and if she supported Lamont and Lieberman won, that would be a trifle awkward, to say the least. However, Jane’s right that Boxer or someone on her staff should have been aware of the attitude of the YKos folks on this issue. If she had been aware, she might have been more careful about her endorsement.

ck,

“I’m inclined to cut Senator Boxer some slack here %u2014 this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.”

WTF are you talking about? Issues or values??? Boxer is either issues ignorant or values challened, which is it? Fuck this dammed if you do, or dammed if you do don’t.

egads, sorry for the typos LOL ; )

Alaskan_Pete:

Still there? Where’d you go fly fishing – unless its a secret spot? I like MacAllen, but prefer Cuervo cut with some Cutter when I’m fishing on creeks and rivers. I’m headed over to Chitina for the annual sockeye swat a week from Tuesday.

On Boxer:

I understand the frustration with her support of Lieberman, but we have to remember that we’re basically asking people to turn on their coworkers, here. She has to sit in meetings with him back in DC, coordinate with his office, and share media airspace with him, and they have probably worked together for years. At least she came to the convention.

Breaking News:

The Pentagon reports that Abu Musab Al Zarqawi is alive. They regrettedly report that the bombing attack actually killed Luciano Pavaratti who was in Iraq on a USO tour.

They will have a press conference later in the day with autopsy results.

In a related story, The Two Tenors concert in Tikrit has been postponed.

-GSD

GSD, don’t do that. My stomach fell about four stories until I reached the words Luciano Pavarotti.

You dog.

GSD:

Sorry, they just nicked Pavorotti. They’ve retitled the concert “A Tenor and a Counter-tenor in Mosul.” Should be a hit there.

They are fighting the tenors over there…..

The tenor of this thread is refreshing.

Cujo359 @ 11:04 pm said “Boxer or someone on her staff should have been aware of the attitude of the YKos folks on this issue.”

Even more than that, Boxer should have been aware that what she positively asserted about Leiberman was untrue.

abc at 10:02 pm “VERY interesting to see JWP and other commenters criticize Jane for her comments on Boxer’s endorsement of Lieberman.”

Hmm, possible Liebertrolls showing up on Jane’s “Clueless” post?

Lawyer says FBI is investigating pro-Lieberman blog postings
By Don Michak, Journal Inquirer, 06/01/2006

Nah. Just a coinky-dink.

I do believe turning on her colleague would be awkward for Barbara.

As Barbara and DiFi are both working for the people of California, Barbara couldn’t turn on DiFi without dissing her own employers.

Barbara and Gurney Joe work in the same building. Gurney Joe works to destroy the freedoms of Barbara’s employers.

If Barbara sacrfices her employers’ well-being in order to help her co-worker, does she expect a bonus?

Thanks, Jane and firepuppies. I wish Barbara and DiFi (and Nancy) were reminded of their collusion every friggin’ day.

In public. At Yearly Kos every day. On Daily Kos every dammned day.

Wherever they collaborate with the pollution-permissive war-loving hate-spewing corporate-fellating millenialist nut jobs who have conspired to steal elections and subvert the Constitution.

Good on ya’ fd pups. If Barbara doesn’t like what she finds in the mirror we hold up to her, she’ sthe only one who can change it.

kirk,

You’re absolutely right. They DO work for US.

I’m sorry I’m not completely up to date, but was Huffington there?

hi all. i’m out here, as usual. re: Al Zarqawi, it really bothers me that this whole war, from the very beginning has been marketing & presented to the american audience like a video game. it’s probably part of the reason that many just can’t get the horror of it. i heard they had the house surrounded when it was bombed– why not capture him? i thought, at least officially, the U.S. didn’t do assasinations. or is that something else left in the dust of our disintegrating moral authority?

seepeesate @ 11:27 pm (#139) – The thing I remember that she said was untrue was actually about us netroots folks – that we were just angry about Lieberman’s stance on the war. That’s something she should have avoided saying. The truth is that many of us here support other Democrats who supported the war. Lieberman’s just been wrong on many other things as well, the courts, women’s rights, freedom of speech and artistic expression, and the President’s view of the separation of powers.

shooter @ 11:48 pm (#143) – Yes. Christy mentioned seeing her in a previous article.

brkily @ 11:56 pm (#144) – We’ve done them. Here’s an example from a past war.

it just sickens me to hear the media parroting the language of the military about deliberatly targeting and killing a human being in cold bloob- and probably others nearby who aren’t even mentioned. the fact that we can do this , and talk about over breakfast like the weather, is insane. this isn’t even a war. this is just cold-blooded and casual murder on a massive scale for economic reasons. a few individuals and corporation are using this fake war to steal our countries wealth. that’s why they don’t fucking care if there is any money for education or health care. we are just stupid morons to them.

blood. sorry for the typos. on a roll there.

…Moon is full at 11:03 AM this morning (sunday) at 21 degrees Sagittarius…the Sabian Symbol for 21 Degrees Sagittarius is:

“A child and a dog wearing borrowed eyeglassas. The use of imagination and make-believe in anticipating higher stages of development. By imitating features of consciousness as yet unreachable, the process of growth may be accelerated. Eyeglasses symbolize intellectual development. This is similar to the process of growth by identification with a “master” or guru. Growth is always a hierarchical process, even if the entity is not aware of it. The value of LEARNING THROUGH IMITATION.

It’s been a real pleasure to read about the convention and the comments here from the excellant people who look as lovely as they speak.

Dang, I love you guys. I just don’t have enough time to socialize everywhere I’d like (I’m a diehard Atriot, 3 years). Y’all just rawk my world, though. I wish you the best!
.

…just crawling into bed and found a BIG spider there….

American History at US Constitution.com

“A great democracy will be neither great nor a democracy if it is not progressive.” — Former President Theodore Roosevelt, circa 1910

the rise of progressivism in the U.S.

Its first convention was in 1892, when delegates from farm, labor and reform
organizations met in Omaha, Nebraska, determined at last to make their mark on a U.S. political system they viewed as hopelessly corrupted by the monied interests of the industrial and commercial trusts. Their platform stated:

We are met, in the midst of a nation brought to the verge of moral, political and material ruin. Corruption dominates the ballot-box, the
legislatures, the Congress, and touches even the ermine of the bench [courts]…. From the same prolific womb of governmental injustice we breed the two great classes — tramps and millionaires.

cont. In response to the excesses of 19th-century capitalism and political corruption, a reform movement arose called “progressivism,” which gave American politics and thought its special character from approximately 1890
until the American entry into World War I in 1917. The Progressives saw their work as a democratic crusade against the abuses of urban political bosses and corrupt robber barons. Their goals were greater democracy and social justice, honest government, more effective regulation of business and a revived commitment to public service. In general, they believed that expanding the scope of government would ensure the progress of U.S. society and the welfare of its citizens. Almost all the notable figures of the period, whether in politics, philosophy, scholarship or literature, were connected, at least in part, with the reform movement.

Well….I will send sen. bbox and staff a few choice fdl links on sen. rgjoe. sounds like her office is in the dark on his chilling and cruel medical advice.
cspan cut off broadcasting due to tech. problems and I called them yesterday just to tell them to keep Byrons intern off the cables. So sorry I missed that coverage.
Just caught up on todays pup post
extravaganza. So many angels wearing lil cyber halos tilted in a fedora find the truth slant. Gawd I love ya all.
LHP- An extra special hillbilly halo tilt to you this weekend. Your comments are a treasure for my worried soul. Think I will buy The Crying of Lot 49.
DarkBlack #11 late nite -your are simply off the meter. We need to get you on current tv or at least a texas billboard.
Top of the full moon morning to all.

eureka! you are up latetish, huh!

i see i’m not the only night owl still up.

most of the time. especially on a full moon over eureka night. thanks for that progressive model, you like the book?

Three loose cows just kicked my bbq grill over and in my flower beds. So I am out in the dark yelling REPUBLICANS GET OUT of my d*%^# flowers! Yes they left a patty.
ahh much better now…what a moon we have!
Sen. Boxer and staff now have FDL Lieber-links. She needs to know (evidently) with whom her sausage is made. caio

I’m a conservative who enjoyed your Web site during the days it seemed like Fitz might huff and puff and blow the White House down. Justice.
I just wonder how you guys can work with or support Harry Reid. The guy wanted to send illegal immigrants back in chains a few years ago. Then, he’s caught fibbing about how he changed his mind on the subject. And now he claims to be pro-illegal alien.
He is the classic weasel. You know, the guy who would be cast as an opportunistic villain in a movie so even idiots would know he’s a villain. If phoniness were a cologne, you could not get in an elevator with the guy, or even a bus.
Obviously, you folks are committed to your cause. I just wonder how you — and I see it with the right wingers too — put up with — well let’s be honest — creeps? I’m hoping for a dialogue here, so if you’re just going to say “Fitz” or ask me how i put up with Sean Hannity — I hate the guy — just go back to the slot machines.
Steve N.

steveN- troll… links his name to cox net4wdlow. neutral saves gas.

Jane’s right to dump on Boxer but she’s wrong to place her faith in the two-party system. Boxer knows more about Connecticut politics than Boxer’s defenders here do: it’s a class thing. Nowadays Catholics in Connecticut are mainly Latinos whose ethos includes the subordination of women. Many Latino women may be pro choice in their hearts but Latino men are uniformly anti-abortion. Lieberman appeals to such men, who are likelier to vote than their womenfolk are. Also, Lieberman appeals to the many conservative Jews who likewise subordinate women: think Larry Summers at Harvard, who was only saying what many Jewish men believe [women are too fucking dumb to be scientists]. Lamont’s upside is limited by these conservative segments of the voting population. The two-party system isn’t going to run away from social conservatives. Bloggers tend to be more intelligent, better educated and less blinkered in their social outlook, so it’s only to be expected that Jane’s going to bark her shins in trying to get a savvy politico like Boxer to go against a large voting bloc that can go either democrat or republican

Hey ES

Lots of cloud cover here so I can’t see the moon.

Morning, y’all! Drive-by update on the FLA voter-redge sitch that lhp raised yesterday (h/p Chris of FLA Roots):

Vote-registration groups sue Florida over law

May 18, 2006

MIAMI (Reuters) – A Florida law that fines civic groups conducting voter registration drives violates free speech rights, harms low-income and minority citizens and should be struck down, a lawsuit filed on Thursday said.

(snip)

The voter registration measure was one of a series of reforms [sic] signed by the president’s younger brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush.

It imposes a fine of $5,000 for each voter registration application a group fails to submit, and smaller fines for missing registration deadlines, even due to events beyond a group’s control, such as hurricanes, the suit said.

The League of Women Voters’ entire annual budget of $80,000 “could be decimated if only sixteen voter registration applications collected by its volunteers were lost in a flood…,” the lawsuit said.

The law violates U.S. free speech rights and disproportionately discriminates against low-income, minority, disabled and “other marginalized citizens in Florida who rely on plaintiffs and similar groups to help them overcome barriers to registering to vote,” it added.

(snip)

In addition to the League of Women Voters of Florida, plaintiffs include People Acting For Community Together (PACT), the Florida AFL-CIO, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, and other groups.

Florida Secretary of State Sue Cobb and Dawn Roberts, director of the elections department were named as defendants.

http://www.boston.com/news/nat…..aw?mode=PF

OK, back later after I’ve had some caffeine and read up to current. (Sharkbabe and *ilson — you handsome devils, you! That mischief in your eyes, Sharky — love it! VG — waaaaah, I wanna see you too! Punaise — transparent as ever, eh bro? Pah.)

knew I shouldn’t, but I did – dove into YouTube

Zombie!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..ranberries

spent the entire night on youtube last night ….doing penance now by watching video of the Plame Panel — i finally found it on
http://www.fora.tv/

signup was painless, and much of the important YK stuff is there … if you missed the C-Span stuff like me, these vids should make up for it …

i know i’m about to get EPU’d, so i’ll try to slip this into the next post if i’m still awake….

oh, and Christy, you are the greatest!! we need you on tv more and more and MORE! when they get the full version up of the Plame Panel, i will be one very happy camper…

There is a link in a prior thread to see the Plame panel at no cost. I’ll check for you……..At the Howie Klein comment post 90. Enjoy

Markos on Meet the Press–Now (8 AM EST)

OK…I hate dropping a link out of nowhere, but this has got to be the best YK story yet:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/11/51529/9576

Talkingpointsmemo/TPMmuckracker gives us a welcome gift to start the week off nicely:

By Justin Rood – June 10, 2006, 3:11 PM
ABC says:

New details on the government’s case against I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, the former Chief of Staff for Vice President Cheney, and new clues in the ongoing investigation of Karl Rove may be revealed next week. A conference with presiding Judge Walton, prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald and the Libby defense team is set for Monday afternoon to discuss issues in the case[.]

Yesterday I saw a Daily News (LA’s second daily paper, formerly the Valley News) with a story on YKos on the front page, just below the masthead. It was from Cox News Service. Not completely ignored, no, but the big outlets don’t want their boats rocked.

Lotus

Thank you for the follow up. I’m on all these voter rights mailing lists and weekly i get more sickening news.

We just have to be vigilent and keep putting out thses fires as fast as they crop up.

Can’t find Pach’s rules and regs. What is EPU?
Also, does anyone else have a problem with posting a thought, only to have it disappear later, replaced by someone else, with the same number?

Oooooooh Pach! I ADORE Celia! I have another version (not live) of this song on my ITunes, which has tons of Caribbean, Central and South American tuneage. My brother being a musician, I get lots of cool downloads and CDs from his friends, especially the Brasilians, he has recorded tracks for some of them in his home studio. I can’t remember which CD I got this Celia song from, I would have to dig through the dusty piles of CDs I no longer use cuz I’ve got them all on the PC.

Great news about the Netroots conference call, I am still having problems getting connected to any of those :=( Do I need to be using a VOIP to use that number? Teh last 3 conferences, the number you provided has not worked for me.

lotus 163 – a little bird tips me off to a potential punaise sighting in Sunday Late Nate

She has a nice ass…

Leisure Guy was right!