
Dear Wall Street Journal:
I will type slowly, as if speaking to small children who clearly have comprehension problems about large world events and ethical issues such as lying to federal agents and endangering undercover CIA operatives and such.
Today you write:
All of this matters because it suggests that Mr. Fitzgerald is scrambling even now to explain why a seasoned attorney such as Mr. Libby would lie to a grand jury. The prosecutor’s original indictment doesn’t mention a motive. And his mention of our editorial suggests he’s now trying to invent a motive out of Mr. Libby’s attempt to defend the White House from Mr. Wilson’s manifestly false allegations at the onset of a Presidential election campaign. (Mr. Wilson joined the Kerry campaign until he was dropped after the official probes destroyed his credibility.)
There is all the difference in the world between seeking to respond to the substance of Mr. Wilson’s charges, as Mr. Libby did, and taking revenge on him by blowing his wife’s cover, which was the motive originally hypothesized by Bush critics for the Plame exposure. The more of Mr. Fitzgerald’s case that becomes public, the more it looks like he has made the terrible mistake for a prosecutor of taking Joe Wilson’s side in what was essentially a political fight.
Might I suggest you take your own advice from back in June of 2005:
To the extent that the Washington Post’s reporting influenced Judge Sirica, it played a critical if not decisive role. The reporters’ task is of course to report what they can find out, and it’s notable that in their Watergate coverage Messrs. Woodward and Bernstein played the role of old-fashioned diggers, not cable-TV partisans. The rest of the press corps ultimately joined their digging, and Nixon came to have few media defenders.That was all very different from the Clinton era, when many good reporters did similarly important digging. (Susan Schmidt at the Washington Post and Jeff Gerth of the New York Times come to mind.) But far from being praised for their enterprise, they often became pariahs at their own newspapers and the targets of White House attacks. Much of the media took political sides, rather than stick to their higher obligation of ensuring that a President doesn’t misuse his Constitutional authority. This was the motive for our own extended coverage of Whitewater and the other ethical corner-cutting of the Clinton years. (emphasis mine)
Why, here’s something that I dug up that you might want to read — it might help you to understand the "ethical corner-cutting" and the issue of "stick[ing] to your higher obligation of ensuring that a President [and his political staffers don't misuse their] Constitutional autority." This might make all those clouds disappear a bit for you:
With respect to Miller, the special counsel seeks evidence regarding two exchanges with I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney’s Chief of Staff and National Security Adviser: first, an in-person meeting in Washington, D.C. on July 8, 2003, and second, a telephone conversation on July 12, 2003. Before the grand jury, Libby testified that although he had previously learned about Wilson’s wife’s employment, he had forgotten it by July 8 and recalled no discussion of Wilson during his meeting with Miller. (I-105, 134-35, 279.) As to the July 12 conversation, Libby stated, "I said to her that, that I didn’t know if it was true, but that reporters had told us that the ambassador’s wife works at the CIA, that I didn’t know anything about it." (I-208.) Because other testimony and evidence raises oubts about Libby’s claims, the special counsel believes Miller’s testimony is "essential to determining whether Libby is guilty of crimes, including perjury, false statements and the improper disclosure of national defense information." (8/27/04 Aff. at 28; see also id. at 1-2.)The special counsel’s argument is persuasive. As Libby admits, in mid-June 2003, when reports first appeared about the Niger trip, the vice president informed Libby "in an off sort of curiosity sort of fashion" that the Niger envoy’s wife worked at the CIA’s counterproliferation division. (I-50-55, 245-46.) In addition, handwritten notes by Libby’s CIA briefer indicate that Libby referred to "Joe Wilson" and "Valerie Wilson" in a conversation on June 14. (8/27/04 Aff. at 12.) Nevertheless, Libby maintains that he believed he was learning about Wilson’s wife’s identity for the first time when he spoke with NBC Washington Bureau Chief Tim Russert on July 10 or 11 regarding coverage of the Niger issue by MSNBC correspondent Chris Matthews. (I-162-69; 8/27/04 Aff. at 9-10.) According to Libby, Russert told him, "[D]id you know that Ambassador Wilson’s wife works at the CIA? . . . [A]ll the reporters know it." (I-166.) Claiming to have been "a little taken aback by that," Libby testified, "I said, no, I don’t know that intentionally because I didn’t want him to take anything I was saying as in any way confirming what he said, because at that point in time I did not recall that I had ever known, and I thought this is something that he was telling me that I was first learning." (I-166.)
Russert recalls this conversation very differently. In his deposition, describing Plame’s employment as a fact that would have been "[v]ery" significant to him –one he would have discussed with NBC management and potentially sought to broadcast–Russert stated, "I have no recollection of knowing that [Wilson's wife worked at the CIA], so it was impossible for me to have [told Libby] that." (I-43, 32.) Asked to describe his "reaction" to Novak’s July 14 column, Russert said, "Wow. When I read that–it was the first time I knew who Joe Wilson’s wife was and that she was a CIA operative. . . . [I]t was news to me." (I-433.)
Also contrary to Libby’s testimony, it appears that Libby discussed Plame’s employment on several occasions before July 10. (See 8/27/04 Aff. at 11-12.) For example, then-White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer recalls that over lunch on July 7, the day before Libby’s meeting with Miller, Libby told him, "[T]he Vice-President did not send Ambassador Wilson to Niger . . . the CIA sent Ambassador Wilson to Niger. . . . [H]e was sent by his wife. . . . [S]he works in . . . the Counterproliferation area of the CIA." (II-545-47.) Describing the lunch as "kind of weird" (II-590-91), and noting that Libby typically "operated in a very closed-lip fashion" (II-592), Fleischer recalled that Libby "added something along the lines of, you know, this is hush-hush, nobody knows about this. This is on the q.t." (II-546-47.) Though Libby remembers the lunch meeting, and even says he thanked Fleischer for making a statement about the Niger issue, he denies discussing Wilson’s wife. (I-108-09, 156, 226-27.)
As to the July 12 conversation, * * * * * [REDACTED] ** * * *
Libby called several journalists, including Cooper and Miller. (I-202-03.) As Libby tells it, Cooper, whom he reached first, asked him why Wilson claimed Cheney had ordered the trip, to which Libby responded, "[Y]ou know, offthe-record, reporters are telling us that Ambassador Wilson’s wife works at the CIA and I don’t know if it’s true. . . . [W]e don’t know Mr. Wilson, we didn’t know anything about his mission, so I don’t know if it’s true. But if it’s true, it may explain how he knows some people at the Agency and maybe he got some bad skinny, you know, some bad information." (I-203- 06.) According to Libby, Miller, too, said something that "triggered" him to mention that "reporters had told us that the ambassador’s wife works at the CIA." (I-207-09.)
In contrast, in a deposition limited to Cooper’s contacts with Libby (see II-32-33, 107), Cooper said that he (Cooper) asked Libby "something along the lines of what do you know about Wilson’s wife being involved in, you know, sending him on this mission?" (II-53.) According to Cooper, Libby responded, "[Y]eah, I’ve heard that too" (II-54), which Cooper took as confirmation (II-81-91).
* * * * [REDACTED] * * * * *
Given the evidence contradicting Libby’s testimony, the special counsel appears already to have at least circumstantial grounds for a perjury charge, if nothing else. Miller’s testimony, however, could settle the matter. If Libby mentioned Plame during the July 8 meeting–and Miller’s responses to the documentary subpoena suggest she has notes from that conversation (see 8/27/04 Aff. at 19-20)–then Libby’s version of events would be demonstrably false, since the conversation occurred before he spoke to Russert. Even if he first mentioned Plame on July 12, as he claims, inconsistencies between his recollection and Miller’s could reinforce suspicions of perjury.
What’s more, if Libby mentioned Plame’s covert status in either conversation, charges under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, 50 U.S.C. § 421, currently off the table for lack of evidence (see 8/27/04 Aff. at 28 & n.15), might become viable. Thus, because Miller may provide key corroboration or contradiction of Libby’s claims–evidence obviously available from no other source–the special counsel has made a compelling showing that the subpoenas directed at Miller are vital to an accurate assessment of Libby’s conduct.
Regarding Cooper, * * * * *[REDACTED] * * * *
…In any event, as with the Miller subpoenas, the evidence sought from Cooper appears essential to accurate understanding of events and could obviously provide information unavailable elsewhere. Thus, again, the special counsel has shown that this evidence is crucial to accurate decision-making by the grand jury.
As to the leaks’ harmfulness, although the record omits specifics about Plame’s work, it appears to confirm, as alleged in the public record and reported in the press, that she worked for the CIA in some unusual capacity relating to counterproliferation. Addressing deficiencies of proof regarding the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the special counsel refers to Plame as "a person whose identity the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal and who had carried outcovert work overseas within the last 5 years"–representations I trust the special counsel would not make without support.(8/27/04 Aff. at 28 n.15.) In addition, Libby said that Plame worked in the CIA’s counterproliferation division (I-53-55, 245-46), * * * * * [REDACTED] * * * * *
Most telling of all, Harlow, the CIA spokesperson, though confirming Plame’s employment, asked Novak to withhold her name, stating that "although it is very unlikely that she will ever be on another overseas mission . . . it might be embarrassing if she goes on foreign travel on her own" (II-168-69), a statement that strongly implies Plame was covert at least at some point. While another case might require more specific evidence that a leak harmed national security, this showing suffices here, given the information’s extremely slight news value and the lack of any serious dispute regarding Plame’s employment.
Finally, while it is true that on the current record the special counsel’s strongest charges are for perjury and false statements rather than security-related crimes, that fact does not alter the privilege analysis. Insofar as false testimony may have impaired the special counsel’s identification of culprits, perjury in this context is itself a crime with national security implications. What’s more, because the charges contemplated here relate to false denials of responsibility for Plame’s exposure, prosecuting perjury or false statements would be tantamount to punishing the leak. Thus, given the compelling showing of need and exhaustion, plus the sharply tilted balance between harm and news value, the special counsel may overcome the reporters’ qualified privilege, even if his only purpose–at least at this stage of his investigation–is to shore up perjury charges against leading suspects such as Libby * * * * * [REDACTED] * * * * * (via Talkleft’s transcription)
Gee, that does come from a Federal Judge, but let’s just assume he’s not some partisan crazy with an axe to grind, shall we. (Especially given his long record on the bench and all that points to his being rather cautious on matters of national security.)
Try spinning your inaccuracies on a public that is less willing to see them for what they are: a desparate attempt to prop up a failing administration and its failures, and to cover the ass of Scooter Libby and his cronies for breaking the law. Try practicing journalism for a change instead of working as an extension of Tony Snowjob’s press office. You’ll find it infinitely more rewarding in the long run. The facts are what they are — and making excuses for one lawbreaker after having going over the top in so many other cases only shows you for the shills you are.
And it does a disservice to your readers, who are neither stupid nor dupes. You and your Republican Rubber Stamp Congressional cronies would do well to remember that your shrinking constituency does not include only zombie rubes who are willing to lap up whatever spoilt milk you happen to be serving that day.
PS — Try talking to real lawyers who have spent time in a criminal courtroom, who can tell you the difference between presenting evidence as part of a 404(b) "motive, opportunity, intent" sort of thing, and not for the "truth of the matter asserted." You’ll find it might make your reporting more, dare I say, accurate in the future. And pssst…PR flacks who pose as knowledgeable legal information sources often…erm…aren’t. There’s no substitution for checking your facts, even in a shrill editorial.
PPS — Apologies to the ladies of the Chicken Ranch — the use of illustration in no way equates you with the level to which the WSJ has sunk.



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FITZZZZZZZZZZZ!
fitz
OT: the picture of Bush, a gay man, pushing forward an amendment to demonize gays….the hypocrisy is stunning to say the least.
Remember the 200 overnight visits by Jeffy Gannon Guckert, the former male prostitute? Who the hell was he visiting overnight in the W house? Laura? Jenna?
His longtime lover, Victor Ashe, A Tenn. mayor.
Read this and it all becomes clear:
http://bushssecretlifein84.tripod.com/
Wow, fired up today Redd. Love the post. Go get’em!
WSU=Wall Street Urinal
go get ‘em Christy! Fab graphic!
OT and sad– Billy Preston, RIP.
Sock it to them, Christy! Keep the attention on the real matter at hand: TREASON!
Smackdown!
(Is that Paul Gigot bending over to get spanked?)
Wow, that’s quite a dismantling.
Whoo Hoo
ReddHedd doin’ what she does best!
The Plame panel is gonna rock this weekend!
One would hope that the shills at the WSJ know the Heimlich manouver, they should all be choking on their own words about now.Zinger, Christy.
just ass-king: uh, isn’t she bending over forward?
Everybody else,
thanks I wrote down all the HelenThomas suggestions and will take them with me.
You know as I read each of them, I thought “of course”, It’s just the brain freeze from idolizing her too much
fitz!
and bless you, Christy for your passion and energy
and..er…thanks for the graphic – a blast of Sunset Blvd. in the early 80’s….looks like the back end of the ladies who were “talking” to the clients…err…drivers.
I doubt the WSJ editorial team and the Sunset Blvd workers share dress codes, but their ethics are obviously cut from the same cloth….
Thank you. This needed a clear response.
I think the WSJ suffers from a syndrome that’s a result of a two party system. They’re not interested in the facts…they just want to make sure ‘their side’ wins.
Redd hits those bastards with the chair! Yow!
the difference between the wall street journal and the washington post is that the deranged people (and i mean that clinically, as any longtime observer of the journal’s editorial page can attest: these people are psychologically troubled individuals) who control that real estate do not infest the rest of the paper’s excellent reportage.
meanwhile, at the wapo, the deranged editorialists clearly also infect the once-pretty-good reportage to the degree that the wapo is losing credibility by the day.
which is to say two things: a.) it’s a waste of time to try and educate the wall street journal editorial board on the facts regarding anything. they are congenital liars who live in a propagandistic universe – notice, for isntance, the standard tripe about wilson’s “manifestly false allegations;” b.) on the other hand, at least the wall street journal is still a credible new source, so the damage is thankfully limited: no one reads the wsj editorial page for help in making up their mind about anything.
I understand your pain. You arguments are impassioned and accurate. But if the WSJ were fair, balanced, and intelligent, I might read it. I haven’t read it for years.
The Plame panel is gonna rock this weekend!
Indeed it shall … and yes, Christy/Redd, I will be there.
For anyone who’s interested, I’ve also posted the first part of an update/review of my analysis of how the Plame leak occurred, in preparation for the festivities.
That article sounds like a Rovian press release. Is Mr. Rove gearing up the wurlitzer to deal with some bad news due soon?
I’m confused – why is his motive – “why he lied” – such a mystery? He lied to the reporters he talked to because he didn’t want anyone to know that the effort to smear the Wilsons was coming directly out of the highest levels of the White House, and then he lied to investigators and the GJ about the fact that he had lied to reporters, to cover his ass. He felt comfortable lying because he knew that the reporters would never willingly out him as a source, and he failed to anticipate that the reporters could be compelled to testify about their sources.
For those of us who will not be there, is there going to be live blogging or post blogging on this weekend’s festivities?
Zing! You are smokin’ today, Christy – wow!
I couldn’t even get through the entire WSJ piece, because I knew after I read the first paragraph that it was nothing but crap. Honestly, as bad as the stock market has been lately, you’d think there would come a point where the All Screed Journal would stop carrying the administration’s water, but guess they’re in it for the long haul.
What a bunch of amoral losers…
loberstergirl
I think you just wrote Fitz’s opening statement to the jury for him.
That’s the whole case in a nutshell.
just so there’s not a scintilla of doubt as to their agenda -
(you may want to grab bp meds prior to skimming)
Sample Editions of Political Diary
January 16, 2006
House Leadership race won’t be over till the votes are counted; the Hillary and Harry show; Rick Santorum tries to find the middle way on the Iraq war.
January 17, 2006
New Jersey U.S. Senate race is wide open; pundit weaves a plausible scenario for Vice President Condi; Jack Abramoff keeps the IRS busy; to some San Franciscans, Nancy Pelosi is part of the vast right wing conspiracy.
January 18, 2006
Democrats use MLK Day to be dividers not uniters; Denny Hastert defends the honor of earmarks; political scandal is a family business in Tennessee; Homeland Security leader gets all the dirty jobs.
January 19, 2006
Senator Reid calls the kettle black in the Abramoff scandal; Jennifer Granholm no longer is a Democratic dream date; Tennessee has Ophelia on the run; the last of the Clinton scandals gets a partial airing.
January 20, 2006
Rep. Boehner is a likely winner in the House leadership race; Democrats belatedly discover that Supreme Court ‘balance’ is a holy writ; Democratic antiwar hero Paul Hackett self destructs in Ohio’s Senate race; death-tax repeal is on its last legs.
avoiding the acronym in this context, but I am not a lawyer: does motive even matter? A lie is a lie is a lie.
If ever the perfect pic with the perfect post…THIS IS IT!!!
ROFLMAO!!
Pass the tissues please!
I think he lied not because of his role in the smear job itself, but because once the CIA referred the matter to DoJ, he was afraid he was in violation of – at minimum – the IIPA.
You’re hamstrung by trying to explain legalities to people who find the word “lie” to big to understand. I suspect that words larger than a preposition would be incomprehensible to them.
FYI– cspan 3 is broadcasting this now:
Civil Liberties and National Security Needs
Government Reform, National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations
Shays, Christopher U.S. Representative, R-CT
Kean, Thomas H. Chairman (2002-2004), National Cmsn. on Terrorist Attacks
Hamilton, Lee H. Vice Chairman (2003-2004), National Cmsn. on Terrorist Attacks
“Too big”
*sigh*
Proofreading after posting isn’t much help.
Go, Christy! They sure got your Irish up this morning!
Please, someone,refresh my memory – what ethical corners is Clinton accused of cutting? Aside from whitewater (nothing) and Monica (no comment, or I’d never stop), oh, and being a Democrat, what else? The meaning of “is”?
howard @ 11:07 am (#17) – Unfortunately, you’re correct. The publishers of the WSJ largely confine their fantasy life to the editorial pages. I still count it as one of the country’s best newspapers. The WaPo is no longer in that category, and hasn’t been for at least a decade, IMHO.
I posted this on another thread – any observations?
Cooper’s Credibility in Question
http://www.roryoconnor.org/blog/index.php?p=179
“Should Matt Cooper’s credibility be put in serious question during the trial, however, the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney might yet beat the rap.”
Personally, sounds like an exaggeration, but IANAL.
lhp,
don’t know about YKos liveblogging, but here’s a link for 3 days of live streaming via Air America for just $10
http://www.airamericaradio.com/yearly-kos/
See brain outrace fingers:
“Because other testimony and evidence raises doubts” (graf 1, bq 2)
“The facts are what they are %u2014 and making excuses for one lawbreaker after having going over the top in so many other cases only shows you for the shills you are.” (last sentence, next-to-last graf)
Aryan Coulter is gonna be real mad now– family members of 9/11 victims will be testifying today…
heh.
“And so it was that the first cracks in the vast wall of power widened ever so slightly. Nearly imperceptable at first, they slowly gained momentum — the momentum of a hundred billion pent up frustrations. And the builders of the wall looked on in silence at first, seeing but not understanding. As confusion turned to realization, they scrambled to make repairs. Only then did they discover it was far too late. For a change was coming…”
punaise,27:”avoiding the acronym in this context, but I am not a lawyer: does motive even matter? A lie is a lie is a lie.”
I would think it would make a big difference to the jury if it can be shown that Libby had a motivation to lie.
cbl @ 11:12 am (#25) – just so there’s not a scintilla of doubt as to their agenda
Who are “they”?
Just thought it might be interesting to reflect back on Fitz’s words at the October presser regarding motive:
I tend to agree with punaise (also as a layperson) that motive (or at least, proving motive) is not all-important. I mean, it’s not like this is a murder trial where the killer doesn’t know the victim, doesn’t have any connection to him, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why. This is a situation where we can all guess and presume what the motive was. Just because it can’t be proven doesn’t mean it’s not already in everyone’s heads. It will be in the jury’s heads, I’m sure.
Here is the Fitzgerald filing the WSJ is refering to;
Libby or the other government offical testified that Libby transmitted, through another government official, a copy of portions of the NIE to the WSJ.
The WSJ doesn’t deny that they recieved “a copy of portions of the NIE”.
The WSJ states that Libby was not their source. Fitzgerald never made that claim.
The WSJ never denies the allegation they refer to about Libby playing a role, but they imply that Libby didn’t play a role by conflating these statements.
For a shill publication, whose sole purpose is the consolidation of wealth in the fewest hands possible, ANYTHING that threatens the job that the administration has done toward that end [Dubya, Darth and crew have accomplished in less than 5 years what took Reagan 8 to do!], threatens its sole purpose. Accuracy, candor, facts, and fairness have no use for shills who ‘religiously’ embrace ‘exceptionalism’ in the pursuit and maintenance of Advantage. Core mission overrides cover story for both the administration and its shills. WSJ bleating about Fitz is like the cries of idiots, ’sound and fury, signifying nothing.’
Christy.
Wonderful post as usual. Don’t know what we’d do without you guys.
A question, please, relative to Fitz’s’s irving & rover projects:
I heard a short bit yesterday about a settlement of sorts in the Wen Ho Lee suit, with news orgs settling with Lee out of court rather than divulge sources (?).
It was mentioned also that the Supremes earlier wouldn’t take up a related Lee-case issue.
Would any aspect of the Lee court situation outcome hold possible hints for what is apt to happen in Plamegate?
Yeah, all those poor reporters who valiantly tried to report all the terrible non-crimes that were committed by the Clintons in the years before Bill was in the White House. They were sooooo demonized. It was brave of the WSJ to keep that flame alive, to inspire them to keep Whitewater alive long enough for Bill to get caught in a fib about a totally collateral, personal indiscretion.
Just as it is important now for the WSJ to pretend that lying under oath about the very thing being investigated — something that compromised a CIA agent and a CIA operation in a matter of vital national security — was just part of a political dispute that is of no moment. Because maybe the whole thing will just go away.
I have to read the WSJ every day because of its coverage of deals and litigations my firm is involved in. Despite its generally good news coverage, it galls me to have to pay for that privilege.
Cujo 41
I think “they” are the VRWC – Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. The WSJ is one of their many propaganda tools.
shall we extrapolate here?
the WSJ is deeply disturbed that bush is being emasculated in the only way that matters to them, war profiteering. they are making this clear in the last ways that they have left to them.
what happens if the people elect reformers in this country?
WSJ loses, their clientele loses. Why? because basic human rights, civil rights, health care rights, education rights and other mundane things will be important again. This disturbs most of the powerful politicos and others that work with them in profound ways. It indicates that their 15 minutes of fame may just be waning and they will look for other jobs. But in their rear view mirrors they know their sucessors will be looking to try them for crimes, and they may lose their pensions and actually have to do jail time for what they have done. they don’t like this potential outcome.
democrats and republicans alike are nervous that they have skeletons about to be exhumed. and so we come to the precipice;
will they help the election be a real one, and not a set piece like the last two? or will they whine and do nothing as the fascist manifesto prevails?
human nature would indicate the mostly sociopathic group will do the latter. Since most of them have done things they justify as being within the law, but a law they passed to relieve themselves of having to follow the law of the land.
hope to be wrong
b.grueskin@wsj.com – Managing editor
dave.pettit@wsj.com “”
t.cullen@wsj.com – Asst Mg editor
j.fry@wsj.com – “”
Punaise,
Picky, picky… ass backwards… or forward.
I think the real point here is.. any which way they succumb is regarded the same as their mission style accomplished moment
Is the WSJ actually saying that Libby was “responding to the substance” of Wilson’s report when he revealed that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA? Have they documented how Wilson’s report is “manifestly” false? Has anyone ever said why Wilson’s wife recommending him for the mission has anything at all to do with the accuracy of his findings? The WSJ’s arguments are bizarre on whole other levels beyond the legal asepcts.
For those of us who will not be there, is there going to be live blogging or post blogging on this weekend’s festivities?
I will attempt to live-blog the Plame session (and will accept bribes from panelists to avoid snarky remarks about their clothing). :)
Lautenberg ripping into the rethugs on the Senate floor:
This will be the first time we wrote discrimination into the Constitution. The only other time we restricted rights was Prohibition and that ended quickly. The preznit rallied his right wing base the other nite against the courts.
This threatens civil unions and domestic partnerships, too. The motive for this amendment is not morality, it is pure, raw politics. They have their backs to the wall. This is a salvage operation for the republican party. This is political gay bashing. This is a shameful attempt to divide the american people. This is the anniversary of D-day; today we are working to undermine the memory of those.
punaise at 26
Yeah, motive will matter if the defense is innocent mistake.
Not every mistatement to the government is a crime. If you do you taxes and transpose a number by accident, it’s not a crime, it’s a clerical error.
If you do it on purpose to avoid paying your fair share, it’s a crime
Motive? Motive? Don’t need no stickin’ motive when you are following orders.
But if motive is a thing of interest, might want to consider what the WSJ motive was. Team Libby is coming to the end of their high-flying discovery adventure. [Soars like the Hindenburg.] And Babs, et al, probably know very well what hand Fitz is holding. What they don’t know – and what the admin is getting very anxious about – is how that hand is going to be played by Fitz-GJ.
The only motive I can think of for the WSJ is to pressure that hand to be played sooner (now that the discovery gambit is pooping out) rather than later (say near the mid-terms).
taking Joe Wilson’s side in what was essentially a political fight
Talk about being divorced from reality! Taking Joe Wilson’s side? He has nothing to do with this, it’s between the CIA and whoever blew Plame’s cover. A “political fight”? Is that supposed to be a blank check to cover what this moron (whoever it is) can’t argue?
It seems that the smart people on the right have already gone into hiding and this is all we’re left with, sadly.
.
See, Wilson’s wife sent him on a junket, see? A junket!
Then, Wilson tried to help Kerry (friend of Jane Fonda) run for president, see? That discredits Wilson. Wilson is, hereafter known as “Wilson the Discredited Friend Of Jane Fonda”.
Seems to me that motive is a pretty important part of the charge. Libby had to do what he did INTENTIONALLY in order to be subject to prosecution. His argument is “Look- I was a busy man- I just forgot- give me a break”. Fitzy must show that his lack of candor was intentional and done to protect himself or others.
This should not be difficult. That the WSJ pretends to believe the “I forgot” defense should disqualify them from ever again having an ounce of credibility in the land of the living.
Feingold on CSPAN-2!
The amendment is not about protecting marriage. Those of us who oppose this support freedom, the freedom to choose your lifestyle.
What matters right here is politics and elections.
Too bad, America.
yay Lautenberg!
Now Feingold up!
Petro at 34
Judge Walton’s decision said that the earlier drafts of Cooper’s article had to be turned over in discovery because htey were “arguably” impeachemt evidence, since there were changes from draft to draft.
His description made it sound like he was just cutting off another avenue for Libb’s appeal, not that there was any kind of Cooper smoking gun.
it did not make the ahirs on the back of my neck stand up. I have no worries there, but they are trying to make Cooper feel the need to buy a case of Maalox
I just want to be on the record with you here on the enormous “FUCK YOU” that I still feel ringing in my head after reading those unbelievable two paragrpahs. I can not wait, when I get charged with lying to a grand jury and obstruction of justice, until the Wall Street Journal climbs aboard my legal teams’ bus and defends my criminal lies in their widely-read pages, saying, “But where’s the motive?”
Really beyond belief that they would so blatantly lie.
Libby was questioned during the Justice Department investigation into the outing of a CIA officers identity. An investigation that was requested by the CIA and okayed by then Attorney General John Ashcroft. People questioned during such investigations aren’t necessarily under suspicion, just like people questioned during a murder or a robbery investigation aren’t necessarily under suspicion. But when they start lying to investigators, they get increased scrutiny, and deservedly so, since lying to investigators is, of course, in and of itself a crime.
Libby was questioned by FBI agents. He lied to them.
Libby was then questioned by Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald, who took over the case after Ashcroft recused himself. Libby lied to him. Under oath.
Those are crimes. There is nothing missing in regards to “motive,” there is simply the fact that Libby lied. If we never found out why he lied, he would still have lied. And that is a crime.
I know you’ve said this, Jane and Christy, but I wanted to say it too, partly to myself. Thanks for staying on this story and countering these huge-voiced lies with the simple thruth. God almighty, what liars.
Aussie’s come forward with their version of the family values debate:
There’s a lot of families and services that are going on and the last thing you want is someone conducting a spiritual service and a cemetery reflection time for family and a brothel going on next door,” he told the Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio on Tuesday.
“It’s totally inappropriate. There’s a place for brothels and a place for cemeteries and we don’t believe the two mix.”
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, and if it has my apologies, but C-Span will be covering the YearlyKos convention Friday and Saturday.
Here’s the diary details, and comments:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/6/134450/2070
WOOHOO! I get to ‘be there’!
cujo359 @ 41 – I was speaking of WSJ’s diarreheaists at their Political Diary
and I asked this question yesterday – why would Wall Street support this cabal ? is there anyone left with some interest in the long term ? – hell, my 401k would settle for mid-term at this point !
Down now down 82. WSJ ed board needs a fun distraction today, I surmise.
Russ: We should not play politics with the lives of gays and lesbians — they should not be used as pawns in a political exercise. They are our friends and family members.
He stated he supports gay marriage.
And wouldn’t it be hilarious if today’s WSJ editorial made it into one of Fitz’s filings too?
We know the man loves press clippings. You have to think this one is sitting on his desk now covered in Post-Its. Or maybe he just wrote WANKERS across the whole thing with a Sharpie.
And I need typing lessons. “DOW now down 82.”
Make that 101.
Keep up the great work, but I am beginning to wonder if the WSJ and other news sources do this JUST to inflame readers, and therefore, increase their influence by having all the comments and activity. Just so exceedingly disgusted with LIES (oops…misinformation!).
Nice job, Christy.
pollyusa — thanks for highlighting that particular part of the disingenuous WSJ article. Well done.
The question is: why are they doing this and at whose bidding? What do they hope to achieve? Surely no one expects the government to pull the rug out from the Fitz investigation. And how does trying to trivialize the investigation or undermine Fitz’ credibility help the WH at this point? If there had been no indictments so far, I might have a notion, but given the indictments, and all the discovery that has filled in a lot more of the overall story, I don’t see a useful pro Libby or pro WH strategy here. Fitz is not going to back off the investigation nor can he unindict Libby. Indeed, public pressure from the WSJ, if that’s what we can call this, might serve to expedite further indictments by Fitz, if Fitz were suscetible to such pressure (unlikely). Would that help Libby? The WH?
DOW down 96–blood keeps flowing. Where’s Clusterfuck?
orangejumpsuit 40
I would think it would make a big difference to the jury if it can be shown that Libby had a motivation to lie.
looseheadprop 54
Yeah, motive will matter if the defense is innocent mistake.
thanks – further validation for leaving the lawyerin’ to the experts!
In New Mexico.
Thanks lhp at 11:39, that really helps.
GW Clusterfuck- the president from HELL- is in New Mexico observing how border control agents are trained and educating them with a dose of his profundity. Poor Bastards!
cbl @ 11:45 am (#64) – I think there are very few on Wall Street who take a long-term view these days. Stock prices rise and fall based on quarterly performance thanks to day traders and money market funds, among other factors. As a result, it’s nearly as hard to find CEOs these days who take a long term view of their companies’ growth.
Any lucky duckies who ARE going to YKos, give me a shout TODAY if you want to get together for a beer (or sparkling water)sometime Wednesday or Thursday. opera99 att rochester dott rr dott com.
rwcole 63,
I think more brothels are needed in this country. There, apparently, isn’t any place anywhere for brothels in the US, whether they be located next to a cemetary or otherwise.
Is that Howard talking? I do see your point. The righties down under (as they do all over the globe) begin by chipping away at the morally valuable brothels.
lhp,
along the lines of your comments at 54
if you’re so inclined, take a peek here – my gut’s saying possible acquittal. not tecnically, but I’m seeing how a jury may be sympathetic to this character and give hm the benefit of the doubt
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000825.php
Terre 64
Thanks so much for the heads-up! I was hoping against hope that C-Span would get into the YKos business.
I bet a lot of us will be there “in spirit” cheering on the panels.
Wahoo!
scarcrow
I wondered that myself when I saw it this AM.
Could this be part of the “scoop” by Jason Leapold? Tweety talking about a Rove decision in the near term? etc?
Are they dumb enough to think that will pressure him to move one nanosecond before he is ready?
Maybe he is feeling a little pressure. the other day there was an annoymous quote from some friend of his saying “one hot day” when we least expect it… .
Maybe they think if they make a big enough noise, bang pots and pans and blow noisemakers and airhorns, they can spook him into pulling the trigger sooner rather than later.
FOOLS
It is not just writers like Prestowitz who are sounding alarms. Jeffrey Immelt, CEO of GE, reflects on the growing competence and cost advantage of countries like China and even Mexico and says, “It’s unclear how many manufacturers will choose to keep their businesses in the United States.” Intel’s Andy Grove is more blunt. “America … [is going] down the tubes,” he says, “and the worst part is nobody knows it. They’re all in denial, patting themselves on the back, as the Titanic heads for the iceberg full speed ahead.”
Much of the concern centers on the erosion of science and technology in the U.S., particularly in education. Eight months ago, the national academies of sciences, engineering and medicine came together to put out a report that argued that the “scientific and technical building blocks of our economic leadership are eroding at a time when many nations are gathering strength.” President Bush has also jumped onto the competitiveness issue and recently proposed increases in funding certain science programs. (He has not, however, reversed a steady decline in funding for biomedical sciences.) Some speak of these new challenges with an air of fatalism. The national academies’ report points out that China and India combined graduate 950,000 engineers every year, compared with 70,000 in America; that for the cost of one chemist or engineer in the U.S. a company could hire five chemists in China or 11 engineers in India; that of the 120 $1 billion-plus chemical plants being built around the world one is in the United States and 50 are in China.
Newsweek
Seems that the WSJ might better spend it’s time looking at the incredible decline in infrastructure we have seen in the USA since the heavy investment of the fifties. Our physical infrastructure is deteriorating. Investing in plants, equipment, adequate roads and railroads, bridges, dams, etc, are all now seen to be a sucker bet. The investment in higher education we saw during the sixties- 2% student loan programs with principle forgiven for those who chose to teach our children- all these things have gone the way of the sabre tooth tiger. We are a complacent, fat nation, mouthing fire while the hungry nations of the world eat our lunch. Our symbol- our very personification- is GW Clusterfuck- the president from hell- who thinks things will be fine if we just keep borrowing more.
O brothel, where art thou?
The reason motive plays a role is that the defense argument is, in part, that he had no motive to lie, so how could what he told the FBI or the grand jury be lies?
But, the defense contends – he may have forgotten or misremembered the chain of events (so busy, you know, and really this was a detail he just couldn’t be bothered with), and told inconsistent stories as a result, but the defense – again – is that these misrememberances are benign because he had no motive to lie.
The key is Valerie Plame. If the smear had been carried out entirely against Joe Wilson, and without one whisper about Wilson’s wife from anyone associated with this, we would not be dissecting this because there would be no case. Smearing is part and parcel of inside-the-Beltway politics; it would have been no skin off anyone’s nose for Wilson to have been stripped naked and flogged on the Capitol steps.
This is, in the end, about a man (or several men, if you – like me – are hoping for more indictments) who carried out the directives of his boss, and in so doing, may have violated the IIPA, which carries serious penalties. For Irving to tell the truth put him smack in the sights of IIPA violation, and that’s what he was trying to avoid by lying to investigators and the grand jury.
This was never about getting out the truth of the president’s assertions, or the untruths of Wilson’s op-ed. They were screwed on that one, because the president and others in his administration had already repudiated the 16 words. They thought they could emasculate Wilson by making it look like his wife threw him a bone and had him sent on a “junket,” and they thought they could get away with using his wife to do it.
A lie is a lie is a lie, but some lies carrry more consequence than others, and Irving was trying to avoid some major consequences.
I haven’t read these yet, and don’t expect they’ll soothe us any, BUT Raw Story has:
“FBI releases small part of Vice President’s FBI records, withholds 89 percent of files”
and
“The Cheney file: Prominent Watergate figure John Ehrlichman made request for FBI review in 1969…”
http://www.rawstory.com
Feingold did a great job of deconstructing the proposition that this amendment was necessary to get beyond “activist judges” . He said, citing various supporters of the amendment, that they weren’t sure what the effect would be on civil unions, and on benefits allowed couples in some states as though they were married. He said, that in the end, these questions would be decided in the courts.
Further irony seems unnecessary at this point.
“Why DFA Believes in Ned Lamont”
Interesting post at Kos about DLC turning like an angry dog on the DFA. It’s worth a peek I thought.
Plano- actually I just thought it was funny that we are spending our time arguing about whether gays should be able to sign a relatively benign contract between one another and in the rest of the world the issue is not “should there be brothels?”- but how close should they be allowed to a cemetary. Cracked me up.
I guess the WSJ has forgotten that the case hasn’t been tried yet. Just because Fitz has not cleary specified a motive to their satisfaction in the limited filings that have been released to the public, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a strong case. Apparently, they are unable to read between the lines what every one else has been able to pick up. Maybe they need a new pair of bifocals.
The question is: why are they doing this and at whose bidding?
My guess is that they are trying to create enough noise and doubt about the case to make a pardon possible prior to Cheney taking the stand. If they can convince some portion of the population that the charges are weak and politically motivated, they have a defensible rationale to stop this sooner rather than later. The republicans don’t want this thing owning the headlines around election time this fall or in 2008.
lhp @11:04 sez-
You know as I read each of them, I thought “of course”, It’s just the brain freeze from idolizing her too much
Once, when my dad worked at the LA Times, I went to a Dodgers’ playoff game with him. We were way up behind left field, the foul pole perfectly placed in our field of vision, and I was seated next to Paul Conrad, whom I idolized.
Well, in addition to being talented and famous, he is also over 6′ tall, an imposing presence. I was, at first, tongue tied and red-faced, trying to think of something suave to say. AFter our first beers, he said something, I don’t even remember what, that was so silly I laughed out loud at the realization that he was a also a real live person in addition to being a Pulitzer winning cartoonist. From then on, it wasn’t so bad.
The answer, by the way, is 660 yards. Brothels are OK as long as they are 660 yards away from the closest cemetary.
CBL at 79
In all honesty, I have not really been following the Safavian case that closely. It seems like such a slam dunk to me. I was shocked he went to trial.
I saw him once giving comments to the press, he does not have charm, charisma, whetever it is you need to win sympathy.
He just seemed smarmy and cunning.
From what little I know of the case, his testimony was a hail mary pass. I really don’t know why he didn’t plead out.
Terre at 64: C-Span will be covering the YearlyKos convention Friday and Saturday.
Thanks for that info Terre!
Word to the wise: that means we who can’t be in attendance are going to be watching to vote on who is the most sartorially impaired *g*!
xyz- best speculative explanation so far in my opinion. Kudos. They know or expect that the pardons will be rolling out within a year or two- and Herr Rove is likely to be indicted on similar charges. This is “vaccine”.
Okay, I’ll admit it. With such a dizzying array of names and dates and conflicting recollections of coversation has me so thoroughly confused. But fundamentally, I’m bright enough that my mother calls me sun. I see a tactic of obfuscation to deceive, not the judge, but the steno courtiers and thereby, the public at large.
However, the fundamental issue is that a serious breach of nationally security has occured subsequent to a terrorist attack on America by those in the highest levels in the halls of power. Lies were told and a CIA operative was exposed just to protect the administrations lies on their relentless march to punk a boogeyman prior to their re-election.
It’s easy for someone like me, with great demands on my time, to get lost in the fog of this issue. But the hideous nature of the overarching goals should not be displaced by confusion. An illegal war created through lies and trashing of the character of Joe Wilson by treasonous exposure of his CIA operative wife.
xyz – very insightful comment. I am the “other” xyz and have been posting here for a couple of months now. I think you might have been posting here first. Starting with my next post, I will start going by “wxyz” so we are distinguishable.
“It’s totally inappropriate. There’s a place for brothels and a place for cemeteries and we don’t believe the two mix.”
Um, is he saying that the brothel is conducting its business in the cemetery, explicit signs that are visible from the cemetery, or in full view of people at the cemetery? because otherwise it’s just another business-next-door, as far as I can tell.
Just another sign of trying to make sex illegal, because if sex is outlawed only outlaws will have sex. Or something like that. (I think conservatives spend far too much time worrying about other people enjoying life and not enough time enjoying it themselves.)
GW Clusterfuck- the President from Hell- likes nothing better than being photographed against the backdrop of UNIFORMS. He got another cool one in New Mexico. Next stop- the bus driver’s convention.
OT – looking forward to the Montana primary results – don’t forget to Root for Jon Tester. DKos has some encouraging anecdotal reports.
Wall Street down–treasuries a safer buy. A simplistic concept that was reported on today. Hmmmm, if someone raises interest rates 16 times and drives up the oil prices bigtime…and mutters about inflation…hmmmm. Big money brokers may be tempted strongly to put money into treasuries so not so much of America has to be sold to the Asians this week so…help me out here…the deficit/balance of trade [I’m a total non-CPA, guys, just free-associating here] doesn’t look quite so bad?
It couldn’t be that obvious, could it?
rwcole @ 12:06 pm (#91) – How in the world did they come up with that measurement? Other than being just a shade over 600 meters, it’s not an “even” distance in any system of measurement I can think of. A mile is 1760 yards, so it’s not a true fraction of a mile.
Oh, wait, it’s three furlongs. Nevermind.
Sorry to keep going OT, but:
Billy Preston died today at 59.
R.I.P.
rwcole at 92: Brothels are OK as long as they are 660 yards away from the closest cemetary.
Is that because they don’t want the cemetary residents getting stiff *g*?
Sure gives laid to rest a new meaning! LOL!
Anne- well it’s not a lie if Libby believed it to be true at the time.
If my wife asks: “Did you leave the backdoor open- and I- sitting at my computer- say “NO I’ve been here all afternoon” then I’m not lying- even if I forgot that I went out once to test the chemicals to test the pool. I am confused- not lying.
That’s the Libby defense to date in a nutshell.
For both of the xyz’s here,
I once met a man at a gas station I worked at long ago.he gave me his credit card to pay. His first name was spelled…..Xyz. Of course I was a little incredulous,but he said it was pronounced Zeeza. A bit of trivia for you.
Slightly OT, but this sentence gave me a good laugh:
That was all very different from the Clinton era, when many good reporters did similarly important digging. (Susan Schmidt at the Washington Post and Jeff Gerth of the New York Times come to mind.)
So for the WSJ Editorial page stenograper = good reporter…..
Anyone who is at all familiar with the record of Pat Fitzgerald knows that he takes the side of the law.
As for trying to convince the WSJ editors that they should use facts in their world, I think that it is obvious that when they write an opinion article, they think that it can be _entirely_ opinion … and “fact free.”
Trying to reason with Right Wing Shills is like trying to teach a pig to sing – It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Regardless –
Give ‘em Hell, Christy!
Karl, in a brothel, near a cemetery:
neck Rove feel ya
I suppose my new name would be pronounced Wazeeza.
Cujo- well it’s 3/8 mile- One and a half times around a quarter mile track Deep science behind the measure I’m sure- it’s beyone the distance where funeral goers would be smitten by the sound of wailing women and the smell of burning rubber!
Prairie – I’m no economist, lord knows, but what you say dovetails with some things I’ve read recently about deliberate devaluation of the dollar. I’ve seen this hypothesis in articles for a few years now as one option to reduce deficit/trade balances. But I don’t really understand it.
Christy, I just got home and found your post. It’s almost biblical in its righteousness.
Somewhere in Lower Manhattan, Paul Gigot’s trying to buy an inner tube so he can sit at his desk for the rest of the week. I bet he’s sort of like Rudolph, except it’s not his nose that’s glowing red right now.
Punaise- add that one to your book of personal bests- or worsts- as the case may be.
“Puns that make you tear your eyeballs out”
lhp — yeah, it’s as though they think Fitz has no bullets in his gun and so they taunt him to pull the trigger. If I were Rove (or Cheney), I’d say, “uh, guys, can we back off?”
Anne — as I see it, there were two charges implicit in Wilson’s articles: (1) that the uranium purchases claim had no basis that he could find and (more important)(2) that the Administration knew this but told the public something else, and that since Cheney had caused the question to be asked, Cheney surely would have known Wilson’s finding and thus known that the intelligence was likely faulty, but said nothing. It was the second set of claims — knowingly misleading the public– that the WH feared, and it was Libby’s job to discredit that more dangerous claim — hence, the leaking of only selective portions of the NIE to Judy and to the WSJ and others (even as they publicly disavowed the credibility of the 16 words), and hence the attempt to discredit Wilson’s credibility and honor — not his factual finding — but his conclusion about Bush/cheney knowingly misleading the country.
As I see it, the “motive” was all wrapped up in trying to protect against charges the Administration had committed impeachable offenses, not about covering up poor intelligence. And the WSJ doesn’t even come close to picking up that potato.
Going back to our favorite “reporter,” you know, the guy with the hair: he’s looking straight at one of the biggest political stories in a century — about how an administration repeatedely lied the country into a disastrous war and committed a global strategic blunder that undermined the country’s prestige and vital interests for years, but he keeps arguing that there’s only a “little story” here to see. Ya have to wonder.
tom #3
isn’t that where the phrase ‘hauling Ashe’ comes from? george, being a former baseball team owner, likes switch hitters — small wonder that laura now wants to test everybody for hiv — it’s her way of trying to get george tested, but she’s really showing prejudice because she’s implying that black women are likely to have hiv — i’m not saying which black woman she has in mind
wxyz says
June 6th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
I suppose my new name would be pronounced Wazeeza.
Actually, since you admit you are the second xyz, you’d be Wazeez-b.
a number of German journalists thought they would rise to fame with the story of those awful Polish stormtroopers attacking helpless German soldiers at Danzig …
ZYZZYVA, the journal of west coast writers & artists
rwcole 114, sorry had to dig deep for that one, if you can fathom that. :~)
Since EPU does not seem to be here yet,
KAZUZA!
Sorry, My bad.
http://i65.photobucket.com/alb…..ephant.jpg
Sorry… There is just too much good stuff today not to share. I am excited about the Busby race.
Ever notice the stars on the GOP logo are upside down?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/6/141857/5790
A little Froomkin snark from today:
OT: went to the IU campus for Laura’s surprise visit to a conference on Youth. No protesters were around — the visit was only announced last night — but I had a run-in with campus cops who threatened me with arrest for being on a public campus “without a valid reason”. I guess that old-timey stuff about “peaceful assembly for redress of grievances” is out the post 9/11 window? Anyways, the ACLU has been called as has the Chancellors Office…
rwcole 88,
yes, that is funny point. But also funny is the fact that the right, no matter who or where, must attack sex in any form. In this case, since they (unlike us – we are way too pious, thank god) have brothels – which the Aussie public likely appreciates – the logical first step by which the righties may attack them – is to consider and criticize their proximity to cemetaries.
First, any brothel that is located next to a cemetary (no matter who was there first), must be relocated. Second, brothel cannot find a satisfactory location because of NIMBY’s. Results in an all out WOB promulgated by Howard and Australia’s right wing (including, of course, the churches, other religious leaders and moral crusaders).
Next thing you know, they’ll be just like America’s Republican masses. Angry, no brothels and full of pent up sexual repression.
Good for you *ilson. A little disturbing of the piece too?
Zyzzyx Road, on the way to Vegas.
The real mystery–Why Paul Gigolo has hired Mistress Judy.
*ilson – first there was the Chicago Seven, then Denver Three, now you’re the Indi One. Fight the good fight.
KAZUZApalooza!
Raise hail, *ilson!
I just put on my tinfoil hat so this is what I’m picking up.
If word out is Libby is close to flipping, then it would be in Rove’s best interest if Fitz indicts Rove now, before Libby tells all. WSJ is employed to goad Fitz into earlier indictment, in order to keep conspiracy off the table.
al-Scooter.
the very last of my homemade mango iced tea is now dripping off my screen !
lhp,
thanks for the response. and I agree with you in wondering why he did not plead out, I’m under the impression his deal would have been ’sweeter’ had he taken them up on their 2 overtures b/c of where they were at in the investigation
Perhaps this is an opportune moment to introduce my private airline, Scoot-Air…
http://www.dealbreaker.com/200…..alism.html
Because you just never know when you might need to get away.
I am craven enough not to get arrested. I did that once back in May 1971 in DC … the U.S. Supreme Court agreed with me eventually but jail is no country club!
*ilson — “Sometimes the operations of the machine becomes so odius that you have to throw your body on the gears and grind it to a halt.”
— Mario Savio, UC Berkeley, 1965 or so?
Plano
Well last I heard- brothels were legal in most of Nevada. There was an interesting case a few years back where one of them got taken over for failing to pay taxes. The Govt. tried to run it- but lost money- which goes to show- there’s more to running a business than just knowing how to fuck people.
Unfortunately for Libby and the WSJ, this case is not something the American public is going to vote on. The matter will of course be decided in court, so I have no idea why they are applying spin in this instance. Idiots.
Orrin Hatch- “marriage is between one man and one woman.”
Uh-huh. And this is the case all throughout Utah, Nevada,Idaho, and Arizona, right?
He’s not a Mormon, he’s a moron.
The WSJ is nothing more than a mouthpiece for NeoCon propaganda. Unfortunately, many uninformed corporate executives rely on this paper for most of their news/information.
I would love to see Christy do an Op Ed piece…but I know they would never publish it. They believe the people who own the printing presses have the right to tell the masses what to believe.
al-Scooter @ 12:30 pm – Perhaps this is an opportune moment to introduce my private airline, Scoot-Air
Don’t just get away. Disappear!
We’re so allovah the place by now, it’s probably just about EPU-time, soooo OT Culinary Division (I know we have one somewhere):
I’ve got an embarrassment of riches in my freezer and need you kitchen-wizards’ advice. Saddy night, I enjoyed a feast of NOLA-style barbecued shrimp. (I’d promised the apple pie but almost had to resort to sto-bought, thanks to FDL — further OT: if you didn’t learn your English in the pre-TV South, you simply CANNOT appreciate the shock of hitting grade school and finding out about those last two letters in “store.”)
Anyhow, NOLA “barbecued” shrimp doesn’t involve a grill — it’s oven-roasted, head-&-shell-on, with major butter, lemon slices, and REX-brand (!) spices. Because our hostess is soon leaving for a New Zealand vacation, I ended up with the heads ‘n’ shells for slow-brewing (with a couple-three bay leaves extra) while I was on here Sunday afternoon.
Now I have (a) eight 2-cup baggies of primo shrimp stock in the freezer and (b) no clue how best to deploy same. (I do this several times a year, and then, without fail, comes hurricane season, the power goes, and the next news is, the surviving critters in the surviving woods off my kitchen porch are grateful indeed. Can never really think what to do wid da precious elixir.)
Would dearly love to share it with y’all, but since I can’t, would you please share your thoughts/experiences on how to make the most of it this time? Much obliged.
Oh, and if Mary McCurnin is here: Hey cha! Howya doin’? How’s your ma an’ them?
Stephen,
my sister wives and I take great umbrage at your comment !
hat tip to lotuslander for mentioning this
Singer-Songwriter Billy Preston Dead at 59
xyz @97
You might want to follow *ilson’s lead…
i.e. “*xyz”
No dubya’s allowed
:-)
Goopers need a gaggle of senators who represent states backwards enough to not be offended by blatant stupidity and hate mongering. Hatch fits the bill- we’ll hear from Dixie presently.
Someone should roll the south around the state of Utah and make a giant Mormon cracker sandwich- which could be auctioned off the the highest bidder. I offer two cents.
apropos excess shrimp: call up a small church that does soup for the homeless and let them feed folk.
lotuslander,
Sounds like you have the beginnings of a great Gumbo,or maybe some kind of rice dish.
Katherine Harris is an interesting subject for medical observation- from the mental health standpoint:
“WEST PALM BEACH — Katherine Harris thinks she knows why she’s been shunned by her party leadership and shirked by big donors, and it has nothing to do with political platforms.
“Perhaps in some elite circles, the reason I have not gotten more support…is because they don’t believe I can be controlled,” Harris said today during a speech to the nonpartisan Forum Club of the Palm Beaches.
LocalLinks
Harris, a two-term congresswoman who as secretary of state gained national notoriety for her role in the 2000 presidential recount that handed the race to George W. Bush, said she would not “kowtow” to the administration or her party.
“I will be beholden to no one but the people, not the party elite, not the press and certainly not even doing what’s popular,” said Harris, who is seeking the Republican nomination to run against Democratic incumbent Sen. Bill Nelson. “I’m going to be doing what’s right.”
More Raw Story:
NSA won’t confirm, deny holding evidence of spying on gay community
HI BOYS & GIRLS!!!! Yoo HOOO!!!!
McCain just came out against the FMA …
Memo to katherine harris;
Long walk,short pier.
Well since NSA won’t confirm or deny ANTHING- it is a fountain for great headlines:
“NSA refuses to confirm or deny that the president is mentally ill and that it’s contagious”
“NSA refuses to confirm or deny that Dick Cheney is an alien life form.”
Delicious News on Fitz and the WSJ
I would not post this but for the thread topic.
In an editorial in todays Washington Street Journal we find out that a previous article written by the WSJ will be used as evidence against Scooter Libby.
One thing for sure…The WSJ is pissed and pissed back.
rwcole @ 12:42 pm (#148) – Katharine Harris: Crazy woman of the people.
Mental illness is a populist position.
lhp at 54, anne at 85, rwcole at 106, and scarecrow at 116
re: the relevence of motive and possible motives
The nature of Libby’s alleged lies don’t fit well with “innocent mistake.” He SHOULD have just testified “I forgot.” Instead, he testified accounts of where he heard about Plame’s identity. These are elaborate “misrememberings,” not simple mistakes.
If motive is still important, there are several (independent of whether Libby knew ahead of time that Plame was covert)…
Motives:
1) Loss of his job, if his bosses find out (Bush said he’d fire leakers, originally),
2) Loss of an election, if the public learned someone in the WH leaked, and
3) Threat of jail (Fitz has testimony that a CIA official briefed Libby and others, immediately after the Novak article was published, about the potential damage the leak could cause).
Libby is so toast.
Put a stallion between her legs and a push up bra under her tits, and Katherine Harris is poised to cum into battle for the people.
Orrin Hatch- “marriage is between one man and one woman.”
Oh, how it must have pained him to say that.
I recall Hatch saying that referring to “Wilson’s wife” meant that she hadn’t actually been outed. I guess for Hatch calling her “Wilson’s wife” doesn’t actually narrow it down. The elders could have given Joe a new 15 year old reward for good citizenship, after giving her a lecture to “keep sweet” and help her sister-wife.
We know what we’re dealing with here.
.
great post.
‘course i just come for the pictures.
actually, i’m not joking, you guys do a great job of matching the most interesting pictures with your posts.
You poor 49 other states, without your own fullblown-batshit Alligator Bag. No wait . . .
*ilson and busted, I THOUGHT I just thanked you for your suggestions (got plenty stock to honor both), but it seems to have wafted away.
“The real mystery – Why Paul Gigolo has hired Mistress Judy?”
IMHO, wingnute welfare.
ScooterIrving, as is clear from his filings, is going to use Judy’s priorperjuryGJ testimonyaimed at insulating Irving btwtoburyimpeach hernon-existentcredibility. I suspect the WSJ’sPaul GigotGigolo is providing plenty ofcashwingnut welfare, to prevent Judy from from objecting too strenuously.I agree with others above, the Front Page of the WSJ is still a relatively good resource for business news. I concur with all the criticism of the WSJ’s editorial page. As some wise FDL commenters have already stated, the WSJ does not put their editorial page behind their subscription firewall. The WSJ editorial page is free, because they know it isn’t worth anything.
I for one think Wilson’s trip was a junket. Face it who wouldn’t want to go to Niger. I mean it practically screams vacation land and good times. The beaches alone would be worth the trip. Now if it had been some dreary golf course in Scotland, that would be different.
Ooooooooooo, Stephen (faints dead way in anticipated pleasure)!
Iraqis losing their heads over democracy!
BAGHDAD, Iraq – Police found nine severed heads in fruit boxes near a volatile city northeast of Baghdad on Tuesday, authorities said, the second such discovery in less than a week.
A roadside bomb also exploded near an American military convoy in central Baghdad, killing a woman and wounding three pedestrians, Lt. Thair Mahmoud said. The three-vehicle convoy was traveling near one of Baghdad’s bus stations when the bomb detonated. The convoy kept moving.
The boxes containing the heads %u2014 all from men %u2014 were discovered by a highway in the village of Hadid near Baqouba, a mixed Shiite-Sunni Arab city 35 miles northeast of Baghdad that has seen a recent rise in sectarian violence.
————————————-
rwcole 159 – come-passionate conservatism?
the bra seems to be the only support she has these days. Did you see watertiger re Harris’ “campaign managers”?
Niamey
Spread along the northern bank of the River Niger, Niamey is a sprawling city with a modern centre and shanty towns on the outskirts. The two markets, the Small and Great markets, are worth a visit. Other places of interest include the Great Mosque, the National Museum (including a large park with botanical gardens and a zoo, and an artisan/crafts area), the Franco-Nigerian Cultural Centre and the Hippodrome where horse and camel races often take place on Sundays. Tours of the city are available.
Outside Niamey is the famous ‘W’ National Park, with its abundant wildlife including buffalos, elephants, lions, hyenas, jackals and baboons. The birdlife is also prolific.
Washington Post Buzz Map: Systemic Bias (Please read)
Built in bias on the Blog Buzz Map at the WashPo favors Conservative topics it would seem (who’d have guessed)… There may be ways to trick this… But complaints/comments should be directed to opinions@washingtonpost.com with a subject line that starts with the words “Buzz Map”
rwcole and scarecrwo – good points, both.
I guess where I was coming from was that there were the actions that were undertaken vis–vis Wilson, and there was the response to the investigation of the leaking of Plame’s name.
The first were, as scarecrow described, designed to cut off at the pass any serious look at the administration’s claims and actions by diverting attention to Wilson and making him the purveyor of misinformation. Once the CIA got involved, though, Irving (and Rove and maybe others) had two problems: trying to make a case for the Wilson smear without opening up the door to accusations that the administration was deeply involved in fabricating a case for war, and, defending against a possible IIPA violation. I think he was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. Telling the truth was a double-edged sword – it could both land the administration in the middle of impeachment proceedings, and punch his ticket for a ride on the federal prison express.
So, I think he had motives to spare, and I don’t think he can sell rwcole’s argument that he “believed” he was telling the truth.
Punaise- It’s a study in bottoms up politics- not tops down dictation.
I think Katharine Harris must have said something to piss someone off – or perhaps she threatened someone in an offhand way. There is no good reason otherwise for her not to be supported by the thugs she made that made her.
OTOH, Bill Nelson is an Alito cloture voting DINO who goes along with the rethugs about every time.
Political Trip (taxpayer funded) expenses are featured in today’s Daytona Beach News Journal.
Bill Nelson(D) 45 trips for $50,000
Tom Feeney(R) 45 trips over $100,000
Feeney rides in style.
official tourist info for Niger (notice yellow fever shots are required!) http://www.nigerembassyusa.org/travel.html
Quelle juncquette !
wrt to watertiger’s pic:
I love the redneck and rebel memorabilia over her left shoulder– and what ARE those earrings?
cbl #134:
Thanks for the compliment! Sorry about the tea. Prolly ‘way better than my non-designer water.
As for Gigolot, he had it coming.
Eyes not getting message from brain: “scarecrow” and “vis-a-vis”
Long day, too busy.
new thread – new Persia
hah: Gigot in French is “leg of lamb”. Roast, toast, who’s gonna quibble.
(gigot d’agneau)
Wow! GW Clusterfuck makes startling announcement:
“Fellow americans- as of today- I will no longer be your president. I have become your dictationer”
cbl and cathy
Safavian would have gotten a virtually automatic 2 points off his sentencing guidleines score just for pleading guilty.
I really don’t know what he thought he was doing going to trial. Onserving omerta out of loyalty to Abramoff makes no sense since Abramoff himself is cooperating with the gov’t.
Cathy, may have a point though, the Safavian defense tests out the Irving defense. I tmay be that Irving is starting to sweat and “they” know it and are trying to spook PJF into doing something before Scooter flips.
Less fun to consider though, is that they don’t want any new indictments happening around LAbor Day.
Traditionally right after labor day, voters wake up and start paying attention to who they are going to vote for. If the poop hits the fan then, the mid terms could be a blow out.
Remember, Fitz said that his investigation of Irving was virtually complete BEFORE the 2004 re-election. They stalled with all the Judy Miller crap to get past election day.
Now if they are sweating worrying that payback is a bitch??????
Actually they shouldn’t. He is not going to betray his oath that way, but they don’t believe that b/c they judge everyone else by their own loathsome standards.
I don’t think he will delay or accelerate the next indictments, if any, i think he will announce them when they are finished cooking. And the delay has nothing to do with him playing politics and evrything to do with him being busy with other, more immediate, cases.
Lostlander
Shrimp Bisque
or you could use the shrimp stock as the base for a volute sauce (accent over the e)
Hey Christy,
Your experience working with small children has served you well.
Just checking in, mamogram morning, boy they sure can do it a lot faster than they used to.
Wonderful work on the post! It is impressive when someone takes the time to back up one’s position as thoroughly as you did here.
Just one thing, please correct typo spelling of desperate as “desparate” in sentence starting…” Try spinning your inaccuracies on a public that is less willing to see them for what they are: a desparate attempt to prop up…”
Cool!
Plano, Feeney’s my rep. You oughta see the unproofread drivel he sends us. Would LOVE to see that skeezer do some years in some rock-hockey arena way off down inna swamp.
lhp – I heard this morning that once the Safavian trial is over and verdict rendered that more indictments are in the pipeline – most notably Bob Ney.
From what I’ve read, if the laughter and snickers coming from the
Safavian courtroom are any indication, no one’s buying his defense, so if this is a test for Irving…things may not be looking so good.
On the other hand, juries do strange things, and this jury could find Safavian such an empty suit, in over his head with the likes of Abramoff, that they give him a break.
I don’t know – I think people have to be reaching a certain saturation point with this administration, and I can’t believe anyone would give any of these chuckleheads the benefit of the doubt.
Nice post, as usual!
What you are talking about is jury nullification. When the jury aquits despite the prosecution making it’s case.
When the reverse happens, the defense can make a motion for judgemnet N.O.V. (not withstanding verdict) where the judge directs an aquittal depsite the jury’s vote to convict. And of course, there is appeal.
However, the government does not get a second bite at the apple ,nor right of appeal (except in very extrodinary circumstances-too boring to discusss), because once jeapardy has attached, that’s it.
I’ve been on the recieving end of a jury nullification where after an aquittal that almost gave all the aprticipants a freakin heart attack, the press interviews the jurors who say that we proved everything, but they didn’t “like” one of our witnesses and they did “like” one of the defendants, but they couldn’t aquit the defenant they liked (although they knew she did it) w/o aquitting them all.
I still can’t believe I didn’t kick in the TV screen when I saw that!!
So, yeah, it can happen. It’s just not common. We lost that case in jury selection. The defense really got their money’s worth out of their very expensive jury consultants.
About a week ago, I saw Fitzgerald at a Corner Bakery seated (with the head of the local FBI, I think) by a window … and the whole time I’m thinking, “Why is he sitting by a window? Why doesn’t Mr. FBI realize that his breakfast companion is a target for nuts? How quickly could I get my bacon-and-cheddar-panini-fed ass over to their area if there was any trouble and I needed to take a bullet for Fitz?” About 20 minutes later, they left and I settled back in to my book which, ironically, was entitled “A Lawyer’s Calling” (it’s about being a virtuous attorney).
Fitzgerald is a target for nutjobs, master manipulators, and the WSJ (redundant, I know) because he’s a virtuous man who, consequently, doesn’t play stupid games. But I’m convinced he is going to prevail. And, if by chance he doesn’t, the paninis are on me.
EPU’ed, so I’m reposting:
Talking points that I’m particularly tired of:
1. Iraq was trying to get yellowcake.
There is NO credible evidece to support this claim. The documentation that this claim is based on is universally acknowledged to be forged.
2. Well, the Brits THOUGHT Iraq was trying to get yellowcake.
Maybe, but their intelligence was based on those forged documents, and our intelligence agencies were more than a little suspicious of what the Brits “knew”. It’s disingenous (at best) to withhold that information when saying, “The British government has learned%u2026″ If I hear the British government say that they’ve learned that Bush is a staunch supporter of gay marriage, it’s a bit deceptive for me to say, “The British governement has learned that Bush is a stauch supporter of gay marriage,” since I’m aware of substantial amounts of information suggesting that Bush is not, in fact, a gay marriage supporter.
3. Joe Wilson has been discredited.
Really? When did that happen? Which specific statements have been refuted? And since we’re talking about credibility, please tell me: In your conservative opinion, do you think Wilson’s credibility is better or worse than that of a man who is facing a five-count indictment for lying through his teeth to both the FBI and federal prosecutors?
Dear Christy, I love you.
Sincerely, Leslie
Seriously, you’ve made me cry, laugh, and overflow with righteous indignation – in the space of a couple of hours – with your posts today. Thanks for some amazing writing.
Apologies to xyz (aka *xyz) – I didn’t mean to steal your namesake.
clbrune – I don’t think Libby was ever very concerned about himself as a motive to lie. He was acting purely as an agent for the administration, defending the rationale for war and protecting them prior to the 2004 elections.
punaise (#110):
Rove gives necrophilia a bad name……….
lhp 189, the other day in Orlando (I think it was), they had a reverse-JNOV sorta thingie when a jury forewoman mistakenly checked “not guilty” after a quickly-unanimous guilty vote. Promptly fixed.
MF in Chicago
You are my hero. You were gonna dive in front of a bullet for him?
Not for nuthin’, but he doesn’t travel with security. He flies commercial, by himself, takes the subway ( in Chicago, I think they call it the El?) and generally acts like a regular person, all of which has been reported in the news.
I think he thinks he is less recognizable than he really is.
Also, there is a BIG thing that happens if you asssault/kill someone in federal law enforcement.
Some years ago a coked up mafia guy named Gus Farace killed a really nice man who worked for the DEA. Every Dea agent, every FBI agent, every cop I talked to, hell the Postal Inspectors; dropped what they were doing and spent months hounding every mob guy in NYC.
I will not comment on whether some of their activities may have crossed a few lines relating to, ah hem, civl liberties, but they got their man.
Or rather, the mob got him, killed him really dead and delivered him, practicaly on a silver platter.
it made me think if “bring the head of John the Baptist on a plate”.
One thing you just don’t do, is kill a federal officer.
I realize that El Quaida doesn’t play by those rules, but PJF has been living under threat of death for so many years, he is probably numb to it by now.
Thank you thank you saw it earlier, then looked for some response on fdl saw none and looked again now and here it is. Don’t even know how to understand much anymore. sputter sputter sputter
All that and a recipe for Shrimp Bisque too?Damn,now that’s your information super highway at work right there,lol.
loosehead(#196):
Fitz is the role model for “I am not afraid”, “Give me liberty or give me death”. you know, all those ideas that people like Pat Roberts can’t quite grasp……….
lotuslander 195
Since I can no longer handle the republican. rag, Orlando Sent., I missed that.
I saw it on WESH, keith.
Redd,
Kudos, yet again for really eviscerating the smug, pompous, mendacious rat bastards that still fervently believe that they can strangle fairness and truth, and remove it from the public discourse. You are truly one of our finest voices in the just cause. We are lucky to have you.
looseheadprop #196
Damn straight I’d take a bullet for Fitz. Relative to him, I’m vertically– but not horizontally–challenged and, for a fat girl, I’m pretty nimble.
One thing was interesting (and marginally prudent) about where he was seated in the restaurant that morning: He was in a corner facing out. My friend’s father (who was a superior court judge) used to always ask for that seat position so he could survey the room. But I’m not convinced Fitzgerald is that paranoid or strategic in his seating choices. I think he’s just brave, focused on his charge, and wanted a cup of coffee away from the office. Meanwhile, I spent breakfast that morning peering over my book and scoping out the room and the sidewalk traffic. Yes, I’ve probably seen too many movies and, yes, I’m a former New Yorker so the laidback atmosphere of the Midwest is a bit unsettling. But, well, I’ll type nothing else … rather, I’ll just knock on wood.
BTW, lhprop, your posts are like attending the People’s Law School. Thanks. If you ever need any theological analysis (my academic area), just ask.
Others have touched on this question, but it seems to me the one important one here: Why is the WSJ editorial age doing this hit piece on the Fitzgerald operation right now? It’s not like Fitz is greatly in the news right now. Granted, Walton issued a ruling last week, which was newsworthy and which did not exactly reflect favorably on Scooter & his pals, but why wait until Tuesday to print a piece that is straight off the Babs Comstock teletype, and to top it off, a piece that complains about something Fitzgerald siad in a pleading about a month ago? WTF? I can’t really see it as related to Walton’s ruling — we didn’t see much of anything following the last discovery ruling — which also did not pan out for Scooter & Co.
My completely irresponsible speculation is that perhaps (a) as others have postulated, it’s some kind of misbegotten effort to force Fitz’s hand, or (b) they’ve gotten some kind of vibe that an indictment is coming down.
I just don’t see (a) as realistic. I can’t really buy the notion that the cabal is trying to force Fitz to go off half cocked: First, they’d have to be complete pea-brains to believe or even hope that it would work. Second, it would hardly help if it did work. Granted, an October indictment might have a little more oomph appeal in the midterms than an earlier one might, but if a further indictment of an SAO (yoo-hoo, Karl hunnie) comes down, it’s gonna play and play through the midterms. (Plus an early indictment would clip Karl’s batwings a bit at least, making him a little less effective at unleashing the Pandora’s box of ratfucks he has in mind for the midterm season proper.) And even if a narrower indictment (a la USA v. Libby) comes out prematurely as a result of external pressure, there’s nothing preventing Fitz from superseding it with the grand mutha conspiracy indictment a little further down the road.
So, I conclude that these little missives from Babs are not directed at Fitz at all but at other audiences — say, potential donors to the fund, GOP voters, the public at large.
Now my big fat irresponsible speculation is that perhaps this piece represents a little softening of the ground in anticipation of another indictment. Now, I don’t want to cause unwarranted indictment-expectation exuberance (I spent enough time recently at the thankless task of trying to tamp down completely undue excitement over Jason Leopold’s balderdash “scoop” about Rove having been indicted already), but I just wonder. The general gist of this piece — the claim that overall, what Libby was doing was God’s work, a “public service,” something he had a “duty” to do, or at worst nothing more than “a political fight” is eerily reminiscent of Richard Cohen’s Oct. 13 ‘05 pre-Scooter-indictment “Let This Leak Go” op-ed. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101202002.html) They both argue the same thing: Nothing to see here, folks, just politics, that Fitz, an outsider, has misguidedly latched onto because he doesn’t understand Washington ways. Just a thought.
Sebastian Dangerfield at 204:
Fitz will not even bother rolling his eyes at this editorial, much less responding to it.
As for the argument that this is just politics as usual, that dog won’t hunt, either, since CIA agents are not “usually” betrayed during the normal course of partisan politics.
My guess: The right wing realizes that a lot of people are going to go through the mud during this trial. When JudyJudyJudy takes the stand, we’ll have a look at the workings of sleazy right-wing “journalism”. I think THAT’s what’s got the WSJ’s knickers in a bunch.
did somebody say Judy Miller has some kind of deal with the WSJ to write editorials or something…? May just be a rumor I heard.
scarecrow@June 6th, 2006 at 12:31 pm (137)
Filed under the category of “how I know I’m really old,” I was astonished to hear a good portion of Mario Savio’s speech come out of the Chief/Union leader’s mouth on last season’s final episode of Battlestar Galactica.
Maybe James Dobson is right, and Hollywood is full of subversives. And yet, and yet…I wonder if there were more than five people who’d heard that speech before, and still watch silly SF shows on the tube. Sigh….
It’s just all falling apart for them, isn’t it?
I’m waiting with champagne for the Fitzmas that are sure to come. They’re REALLY SCARED NOW, aren’t they?
I really do believe we’re on the way out of this debacle. They really have NO answers, and No way out of EVERYTHING this Administration has CAUSED.
I think everyone is now awake. I pray they do the right thing.
Frank P: I assume you realize that we are in agreement that this Op-Ed has 0% probability of affecting Fitz’s charging behvior (although I think he might get a chuckle out of it, and he certainly DOES pay attention to what the press does).
As for the non-hunting nature of the WSJ (and for that matter Rich Cohen) this-is-all-just-an-attempt-to-criminalize-politics talking point, I couldn’t agree more that it is specious, but that certainly doesn’t disqualify it as GOP talking-point desinged as an effort to blunt the effect of an indictment. Shee-it, right after Libby’s indictment, they even floated (through the represensible vessel of one Kay Baily Hutchinson) a trial-balloon talking point that perjury isn’t a *real* crime. (And we are talking about the same people who think that Wilson’s critique of pre-war uranium claims can be effectively countered with: “but, but . . . he wasn’t sent to Niger by Cheney; the CIA sent him and that was only because his wife recommended him.” In terms of public debate, these folks send their little Pekineses out to do the jobs of foxhounds all the time. And it worked for ‘em for quite a while, too.
Postscript to my last:
I meant to add that Frank’s posit that the WSJ is really whingeing about the fact that shoddy reporting techniques such as thier own stand to be exposed in the course of the proceeding makes for a very good alternative (c) — indeed, that was how I read Rich Cohen’s “Let This Leak Go” shite last year. But I’ve been geting more sensitive to the floating of talking points lately — especially those that get seeded in advance — and this piece just makes me wonder whether we’re seeing it again.
As for the Libby *trial,* as much as it pains me to admit, it ain’t ever gonna happen. Once we get past the midterms, Bush has very little to lose by pardoning Libby to avoid the trial, and he has much more to lose by letting it go forward. I think Libby gets pardoned before a jury is ever sworn in, alas. I think that most in-the-know brownshirs like Gigot and Co. know this, too, so I would discount the “fear of trial” consideration considerably. But it is clear that all of the pretrial skirmishing — and all of the leaks fo discovery materials that may well occur prior to trial — will continue to make the vapid pres look bad, and that could well be the motivation for this hissy fit.
Nice entry. The WSJ editorial board really does live in its own happy, isolated reality! I’m astounded they could fit that much factual inaccuracy, fantastical interpretation, and venomous wish fulfillment into just two short paragraphs! That’s quality hackery!
Lotuslander:
here is a gumbo recipe from food network.
-sofistic
http://www.foodnetwork.com/foo…..65,00.html
“I guess the WSJ has forgotten that the case hasn’t been tried yet.” No hint of irony? Rapists, murderers, thieves, terrorists, even j-walkers, are “alleged”, all entitled to that quaint little American concept “Innocent until proven guilty.” Would you really want us all to be judged GUILTY if only indicted by a Grand Jury. So, let’s apply the same standards you would like applied to your trials.
For those who really care what accually happened, we will need to see this sort out at trial. There are two sets of facts out – it depends which media/blog you are reading. Reality is somewhere in between. Is it relevant how Wilson was chosen and the terms of his engagement? Yes, especially since it appears outside of normal channels. No Confidentiality agreement? No written report? Sipping tea poolside while interviewing only government officials without any real “investigation”? Concluding that no uranium yellow-cake could be surripitously diverted because the good French were in charge of mine security? This “mission” had all the earmarkings of Keystone Cops. So yes, there is a logical pathway that leads to charging this was a junket arranged by his wife, pointing to potential issues with Wilson’s motive and truthfullness, concerns that have nothing to do with revenge.
If they broke a law by outing Plame then why isn’t Fitz indicting on that count? Why purjury and not obstruction of justice if such a strong case?
I suggest you protect your credibility by dealing with all the facts, even those that don’t fit your preferred scenario. For example, the Bulter Report explicitly states the British conclusion was NOT based on the forged docs – stating the opposite exposes ignorance or bias. Saying that Bush lied by stating the 16 words is just not defensable. Certainly take a shot by attacking the results or bias of the Butler report (without mistating its conclusion), or pointing out that the Pres. shouldn’t be quoting a foreign intelligence agency, but hypebolic false assertions are only fun when surrounded by a mob of like minded.
Can you please deal with the SUBSTANCE of the WSJ article, not just cut and past a bunch of transcripts? If lying is BAD, please deal with the falsehoods of Wilson as shown by Senate Intel Comm.. Why did some in the CIA, those responsible for bringing together reports from multiple sources, conclude that Wilson’s finding SUPPORTED suspicions of yellow-cake purchases? Pretending some facts don’t exist is not the basis of a convincing arguement.
There is more to this story that the headlines… on both sides I susspect. But I can be sure that none of you know, yet.
Sashland:
“If they broke a law by outing Plame then why isn’t Fitz indicting on that count?”
Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer so please bear that in mind if the following is amateurish. During the 10/28/05 press conference, Fitzgerald talked about how investigations work. He said something about how, if the FBI gets a tip about embezzlement and, during the investigation, they uncover a different crime, they follow through on that. And then I remember hearing about some clarification Fitzgerald received from Comey expanding his investigation. If my memory is accurate, and please, someone correct me if I’m wrong, that would explain why the investigation has taken a turn.
And I agree the truth about what happened lies somewhere between the blog polarities. And, if past is prologue, I believe Fitzgerald will present a case based on that midpoint.
Christy, Thanks for taking on the WSJ editorial today, I read it early this morning and thought WTF, what a bunch of Bush sycophants, what new spring Crop of Rovianbullshit did the WSJ parcel out as homegrown ideas. The Nazilike propaganda machine of the Repuglicans is insidious and needs to be called out on its fascist bullshit as does the pukings of this Sashlands creepy thing above, Coulter, Fox news, et al. In college, a black classmate of mine said to me once, “I am so tired of translating the black experience for white people,” It reminds me of the lefty blogs and I think the blogs take on the roll of translating the news and whats really going on to America, it is a tiring, full-time job because of the tireless disinforam]]mation campaign the Repugs engage in–but you and others do a great job, please keep doing it-without you would become a tyrannical state–repressed, ill-informed, but still angry. Keep up the good fight!
Australia got a little out of line once in the early seventies – Ted Shackley and Marshall Green soon whipped them back into submission. Since then Australia knows its place is to provide a large healthy market for CIA supplied heroin and a provide large spaces for US bases and supply plenty of brothels for visiting US sailors.
The whole country is basically an American brothel.
I’m sorry to have to remind some people that in this great country everyone charged with a crime is considered innocent until proven guilty.
And that great principle of legal statute hallowed by time and consecrated by usage even applies to the that filthy perverted weasel Irving G.Gordon Libby.
So, friends Professor Rat and fedlawyerdog resort to gutter attacks (your nazi/Fascism rants are just so boring) when someone has the audacity to propose an answer for the question of the day – what motive might there be for Libby discussing that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA yet not finding it terribly important.
One leaky story has it framed as Libby obsessed with getting Wilson. So he outs Plame as REVENGE! “Seared in his memory!” Then lies to the Grand Jury to try and cover it up? After talking with multiple reporters? That’s the bulk of Fitz’s case. He must have more if he’s going to trial, doesn’t he? It just sounds so illogical that anyone could even think of getting away with it.
It becomes just a battle of who said what to whom and when and Libby saying what at trial? “I didn’t say that?” and try to dispute multiple sources? or, more likely, What if Libby just says “I didn’t remember correctly, sorry, it wasn’t that important a part of the bigger picture. I still don’t really recall. Maybe I got the Cooper and Russert conversations confused. She wasn’t the big part of the story.” Is that all there is?
Libby can reasonably argue that he was more excited by Wilson being caught in a lie himself, with Wilson falsely implying that he was sent by Libby’s boss when he was really sent by the CIA. The wife’s employment was just a side-bar. The testimony is that Cooper already knew about Plame before he talked with Libby (it was Cooper asking Libby for confirmation), and Libby was not the source for Novak, none of which gets us any closer to the question of who really outed Plame first, or was it even a crime (getting a warrant is easier than convictions). But it gets to a very important point in perjury charges – did it matter?
Fitz needs to prove a purposeful lie about a point that didn’t really matter to Libby. Motive does matter. Libby’s testimony was ultimately irrelevent to the actual leak. Why would Libby care about ‘covering up his leak’ when he knew the information was already out from other sources and he wasn’t Novak source? Is it enough to create reasonable doubt? “Murderers” have gotten off on less…
If they broke a law by outing Plame then why isn’t Fitz indicting on that count? Why purjury and not obstruction of justice if such a strong case?
You don’t know that Fitz isn’t going to have additional indictments against Libby and others. The initial charge is just for leverage.
Formerly: Good point. Maybe there will be additional indictments, or, maybe not, we can’t know, yet, but don’t they usually throw the book at the first guy to make him give up the next guy. Maybe Libby doesn’t have anything to give, he just “mis-spoke” that he heard it from Russert, instead of Cheney or Cooper. What reason to lie and bring it to the level of perjury? Hardly crime of the century. Is the theory that Libby was “instructed” to get Wilson by Rove, or others, and this was the crime that Fitz may be after? Logic would say look to Cheney, but I think Fitz has already given him a pass. Is it all that Libby misremembered or is there any substance here?
Obvioulsy, you didn’t quite get the “sand in the eyes” analogy that Fitzgerald used in his post-indictment press conference. It’s hard to get to the truth about whether a particular crime has been committed when the people from whom you seek information are not telling the truth. In addition to being perjury, this is also known as “obstruction of justice.”
Also, in case you aren’t following this too closely, the WSJ is apparently attempting the same kind of defense that Libby has failed to get Judge Walton to buy into. Libby wants to make this case about Wilson’s truthfulness, but it isn’t Wilson who has been charged with lying. Many of us suspect that with Libby’s team having been shot down in their attempt to change the framework of his case, the WSJ – and I ssupect other sympathetic media outlets – has picked up the ball on Libby’s behalf.
Um, also Sashland, you should read the indictment: there is in fact an obstruction of justice count in it.
Now, if what youare saying is, why isn’t there a conspiracy to obstruct justice indictment, that is a good question. I suspect it is because you can’t charge such a conspiracy in a piecemeal fshion, as a prosecutor you have to charge a conspiracy in a single indictment, as a result of federal joinder rules (I think many states have similar rules as well). THus, a prosecutor intending to charge a grand mutha conspiracy to obstruct justice — which can be a bear to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, btw — has to get all her or his waterfowl in a row before pulling the trigger on an indictment. That, I imagine, is why (a) it will take Fitz some time to put such an indictment together (which I personally think is going on, in some measure due to my preferences) or (b) Fitz will decline to prosecute the broader conspiracy to obstruct justice, if that’s what happens. I don’t think that he would take this long just to convinc himself that there is no case to prosecute (or that there is a case to be made, but the downside risk of failing to prove it is too high to chance it).
As for why he doesn’t just charge an IIPA violation, that’s pretty easy to answer. First, there’s no saying that he won’t indict someone for such a violation. Second, such a charge presents challenging problems of proof particularly of the knowledge and intent elements under that statute. Those problems are difficult enough without government officials having lied to investigators (as I think overwhelmingly likely, based on what we know of the evidence), but well-nigh impossible to prove in the face of a co-ordinated effort to portray any disclosures as gossip that the SAOs heard from reporters and may have confirmed in an offhand manner. Fitz’s the “sand in the eyes” metaphor at the presser spoke to this, quite eloquently, too).
Anne / Sebastian Dangerfield:
I very much appreciate your thoughtful analysis and criticism. My bad on the OOJ charge. Thanks for the correction. But, my question still stands: How can Libby be convicted of perjury and OOJ if Libby never thought there was a crime and therefore logically could not have been trying to cover up anything?
If Fitz has more, like actual evidence of a cover-up conspiracy, then he better indict, at some point. I can see the strategy of hoping to convict Libby and having him turn, but this can only work if convicted, and if Libby has something to offer. If Libby is not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (see question above – ‘no reason to lie’), then Fitz will be eating an egg facial. Will he wrap up and go home or we he slog on seeking his own vengence? If all Fitz gets is a convicted Libby, and never indicts on the actual leak it will prove that Libby has a bad memory, yet without any conspiracy Fitzmas will be a flop again.
Side-bar question: are those outraged by Libby and the “leak” ready to applaud equally aggressive investigations against leakers in the CIA, NSA, etc. who may share your political leanings. Those charges would be more easily provable in showing breaking of the law by releasing classified materials to the press instead of using proper whistle-blower channels. Be careful what you wish for…
Sashland, Thanks for the civil nature of your inquiries; it’s nice to disagree without being disagreeable. Plus, I’m not at all into the whole echo-chamber, inbred-ideas tendency of blog comment sections. I think it’s good to air debates among those who think about things the same way and among those who see things fundamentally differently.
Your question about “motive to lie” is really a — if not *the* — big underlying issue in the Libby perjury/obstruction case. It is not a legally necessary element that Fitz has to prove, but in order to convince a jury that Libby in fact spun the tissue of whoppers that he appears to have done, and did so intentionally, he of course has to have an answer to the natural question, “why would he do that?” I don’t think the motive issue is anything like as cut-and-dry in Libby’
s favor as you seem to think — but I also think that it’s a complicated question for Fitz to answer, not quite the slam-dunk that a lot of my ideological compatriots believe it is. I’ll explain anon, but want to start with one big preliinary throat-clearing proviso: One thing to keep in mind from the outset is that in these discovery papers, the parties are not necessarily divulging every jot and tittle of their entire trial theories; nor are they even stuck with only the theories that they allude to in these pleadings. They are letting out just as much as they think is necessary to support their respective positions in favor of or against disclosure of certain evidence. So it’s not entirely fair to assume that Fitzgerald’s pleadings are going to reveal every factual theory he intends to prove. That said, let’s dig in.
First, I think the evidence that’s come to light so far suggests that Fitz could make a pretty compelling case that, after the DoJ initiated a criminal investigation of the leak — and all of Libby’s alleged lies occurred perforce after the investigation started — any administration official who discussed, alluded to, confirmed, or even hinted at the subject of VP’s (or “Wilson’s Wife’s”) employment by the CIA had reason to be concerned about (1) his or her own criminal exposure, and/or (2) the criminal exposure of his or her superiors and close colleagues (and even retainers like Judy — the IIPA has a provision by which non-government actors can be charged if they’re part of a conspiracy to violate the IIPA). it doesn’t matter if there is some doubt as to whether one could be convicted; it’s enough that there existed a serious possibility of criminal trouble for Libby himself or for his ideological soulmates/patrons. And Fitz would not have to prove an actual IIPA violation in order to show that there was reason for these folks to be concerned. It’s enought hat there was a criminal investigation of the disclosure of the identity of a an undercover CIA officer and that the people doing the apparent lying knew that they had toalked about that officer and her employemnt at the CIA.
Now, the curious thing is that AFAIR, Fitz does not anywhere in his discovery pleadings explain motive to lie in these terms. Instead, he talks about potential political embarrassment (we don’t need Clinton’s example to know that some folks lie to avoid embarrassment) and the potential threat to one’s livelihood due to Bush’s (in my view transparently phony) promise to fire any leakers. One has to wonder why Fitz has studiously avoided invoking what I think is the more obvious theory of motive. First, I return to my initial point: fitz is not compelled to reveal the entirety of his trial theory at this stage. He needs only to win the discovery motion. Thus he might be calculating that the political-embarrassment/job-security-fears theories are sufficient to make his point and that he therefore did not need to set tongues a-waggin’ by saying something like, Libby didn’t want to get prosecuted under the IIPA, so he came up with a cokamamie story about hearing it from reporters — which, if true, would pretty neatly negate not only the knowledge element of the crime but also the requirement that the defendant have learned the classified information as a result of his or her governmental access to it. Again, though this begs the question of “why.” My semi-educated theory is this: Fitz may not have given up on the idea of prosecuting Libby (and/or someone else) under the IIPA. If he tips his hand on this theory, he would come dangerously close to revealing his thinking on a matter still being investigated, and that might implicate the grand jury secrecy rule. A less charitable theory — not mutually exclusive — is that Fitz wants to avoid invoking this potential trial theory too soon as it would open up the parts of his files relating to this theory to discovery, and he’s not ready to do that until (a) he supersedes this indictment with one charging an IIPA violation, or (b) he gives up on the IIPA once and for all. He might be calculating that the two motive theories he’s proffered are enough to win this discovery motion — and/or even that they are enough to win on at a hypothetical trial if he were forced to try this case while still investigating other crimes.
This gets me to those other theories. I think they are less obvious than the fear-of-potential-criminal-consequences theory, but I do think they would be enough to persuade reasonable people — if they believe Fitz’s evidence and disbelieve Libby’s testimony — that Libby had a motive to lie. Even if you assume (as I think you do) that no-one in this tawdry little affair committed an IIPA violation, I think you have to admit that it all looks pretty unseemly. You have at best SAO’s playing fast and loose with a covert CIA asset (even if only negligently) as part of what looks to be a clumsy effort to discredit the messenger (Mr. Lucille Ball, I mean Wilson) through a thin charge of neopotism, while at the same time making sure that everyone knows that the Fat Man himself did not send Wilson (which Wilson didn’t claim but which a not-very-careful reader might have thought when reading wilson’s Op-Ed). That would be embarrassing for the folks who try to portray themselves as “the grown-ups.” It shows — contrary to McClellan’s pathetic bleating, that this is in fact, exactly “how this white House operates. So there’s a pretty good, second-best motive theory. Beyond that, I like the fear-ofr-one’s-job theory just for its cheekiness. It may not stand up to scrutiny if you realize that leaking and lying about it to protect the master and the project are in fact expected parets of the job, but it takes Bush at his (worthless) word, therefore nicely hoosting the administration on its own petard.
that’s (believe it or not) the hort version of why I think Fitz has the better of things on the motive front, but I admit, it’s delicate and there are trade-offs involved in pursuing each or all of these theories.
With all respect, I think your side-bar question is really a distraction. It is possible to be outraged by the conduct of Libby et al. in this matter and still believe that one who leaks sensitive information in order to expose serious government wrongdoing has moral (if not legal) authority to do so.
PS: As an addendum to the theory as to why Fitz doesn’t want to invoke “fear-of-prosecution” as a motive in this case (or at this stage): Fitz might well have evidence (but not enough to pull the trigger at this poitn) to support a theory that the motive to lie was in addition to protect The Big Guy (Cheney) and that the conspiracy to obstruct justice was in the nature of a big Cheney firewall. That would be a huge bomb to drop, on ewhich I don’t think he would drop in a discovery pleading unless he had already made the charge.
More Jane and Redd, less guests. They don’t have the right flavor…
===Moderator: you expect Jane and RH to be in five places at once? They’ve got a lot on their plate(s) with high profile yKos kudos===
I can respect that job by Sebastian Dangerfield.
As to this:
Now, the curious thing is that AFAIR, Fitz does not anywhere in his discovery pleadings explain motive to lie in these terms. Instead, he talks about potential political embarrassment (we don’t need Clinton’s example to know that some folks lie to avoid embarrassment) and the potential threat to one’s livelihood due to Bush’s (in my view transparently phony) promise to fire any leakers. One has to wonder why Fitz has studiously avoided invoking what I think is the more obvious theory of motive.
I think Fitzgerald is nowhere in terms of an IIPA charge, with Libby anyway – from this Fitzgerald affidavit that was part of the Tatel / Miller argument (p. 28):
To date, we have no direct evidence that Libby knew or believed that Wilson’s wife was engaged in covert work.
And no better evidence has been presented since – in his recent filings, Fitzgerald managed to tell us that Libby had been warned of possible harm done by Plame’s exposure *after* the Novak colimn came out, which won’t work to establish the requisite knowledge under IIPA or the Espionage Act.
And FWIW, grand jury secrecy rules mean that Libby’s testimony would not have been “embarrassing” unless it also led to an indictment, or was leaked illegaly (which happens) – there is no statutory mechanism for Fitzgerald to issue some kind of a final report (unlike the old special prosecutors, who could do that under the now-lapsed law). Libby may have been worried about a leak of his testimony, but why not be equally worried about Cooper or Miller leaking something – they surely had a sense of his role in the story.
Well – as noted, the WSJ is criticizing Fitzgerald for delivering an indictment without a motive; Ms. Hardin-Smith’s response can be distilled to, “Libby was indicted, so there”. Not exactly responsive.
Maybe a jury will buy that; or maybe Fitzgerald is hiding something better (keep hope alive!).
Kudos to Sebastion Dangerfield. Your command of the language is notable and makes it fun to read. Your logic is measured, but I tend to fall towards Tom Maguire’s conclusion, absent some evidence. Sorry mikey that you don’t like new flavors…expand your mind!
I don’t think the motive thing is necessarily in Libby’s favor, I am just suggesting that there is a reasonable explanation which I think is plausable. What is the counter for Libby saying the wife was unimportant; the crucial issue was proving that Wilson was not credible? He was giddy with Ari about learning that it was the CIA that sent Wilson, and, oh yeh, his wife works there. It just seems to let the air out.
And, no, I don’t think Fitz will indict under IIPA, at least Libby, which Tom also nails. And I don’t think Libby was worried about prosecution since I recall reading that he had received specific training in compliance issues, so I think he probably knew he was clear on that one befor he went to testify. But, embarrassment as a reason to lie to a Grand Jury? Seems a stretch. But, granted, sometimes people can do stupid things in a panic… but that does not a conspiracy make.
The rogue CIA section junket scenario ties back to my sidebar which might end up having longer legs than the Libby story. Who’s been leaking from the CIA and won’t that disclosure be a lot more embarassing if there really was a cabalistic conspiracy out to undermine Bush? Not using established whistle-blower channels does matter, both legally and politically, as it speaks to motive.
Pretty provocative artcle on Libby’s defense at:
http://www.observer.com/200605…..story2.asp
to fill in a few pieces of the story (generally sympathetic with above subject article).
S.D.: Thanks for your clarity and civility. Respect is the biggest thing missing in the current political debate, but it is also the one thing I can have the most direct impact upon. Best wishes.