Eugene Victor Debs !

*ilson: I’ll call yr Eugene Debs and raise you a Joe Hill.

UNION ! UNION ! UNION !

In the recent giant Immigration March in Indianapolis, the “new unions” were prominent and had helped organize it …

OK, I’ll say it:

FITZ

“Moreover, Toyota can profitably operate in America, while GM can’t, in large part because Japan has national healthcare.”

diogenes, could you elaborate on that a litte? I don’t get the connection between health care in Japan and operations in the U.S.

people need to understand what a union really is and what it really does…and once they know they need to educate those that think unions are somehow bad.

all a union does is provide a venue for collective bargaining

a company has to but it’s products, and a company gets to sell it’s products as the market indicates

a union is simply a company marketing the products it supplies, the wares of a laborer force.

the company witholds product untill market value is achieved

a company is entitled to go elsewhere for the labor it needs, however that new labor force will need to be trained and once they are trained they will want to market their goods for fair value as well…and so the circle will begin again

all a union does is provide a collective bargaining venue and equalizes the power the corporation has over the middle class, that’s it, it creates a company for the workforce to market their goods and they can bargain and get fair value

corporations don’t like that idea, then they market the notion in their corporate owned media that unions are bad…I wonder why they would do that…hmmm

I have a great idea!

lets abandon collective bargaining and instead let the worker pick whatever salary he wants. instead of the corporation saying what they want to pay…hows that idea?

it sucks, that’s how that idea is., but it is exactly the same idea as corporations dictating what they will pay, the only differance is it puts the shoe on the other foot

the workforce is entitled to market their wares the same way the corporation is entitled to try to get the lowest laborer, however with a union it becomes a bargaining process, the corporation is entitled to bargain for the best deal they can get, the laborers are entitled to bargain for the best deal also

one thing we need to be wary, a corporation can make a bad deal, for instance it can become almost impossible to fire and inept laborer.

the corporation has in those cases bargained for a bad deal

take away the collective bargaining of a workforce and the corporation has more power then the people have and in America that should never ever happen…this is a government for the people, by the people, not for corporations and not by corporations

I know that becuase I read it somewhere

now I know some people think the corporation should have more power then the people, but the founders of this country are not among that group

I have seen non union products versus union products from workers here in the states and there is absolutely no comparison

you take a building built union and non union and then figure out which will pass code and which will not, which pool will not break down which will

unions police their workforce themselves, and from what I have seen they work harder then non union

for instance the police, for instance firemen, for instance electricians

in addition, each union contract can have performance standards

this is part of the bargaining process and if the corporation does not include performance in their collective bargaining then they have failed themselves

people hear bad collective batgaining agreements and they fall under the impression all unions and all union arrangements are the same, and obviously they are not

we need unions to protect the middle class, we need corporations to make sure they get what they need in the collective bargaining agreement

it’s not up to us to put collective bargaining out of business because corporations can’t police themselves or wind up with an equitable agreement in the collective bargaining process

“Ever since Reagan fired the air-traffic controllers, unions have faced the most hostile environment of any organization in America. “

yes, but Reagan’s action did not cause it. It was caused partially by an employer that paid union wages (without the union), and by a feeling that the Dems deserted the cause of the working person.

Toyota’s plants are still non-union and offer a much cheaper healthcare plan than that negotiated with the UAW which covers GM. Nevertheless, Toyota and GM in the USA both pay for private (non-national) healthcare insurance. I’m sure Toyota’s retirement benefits are much, much cheaper than GM too. Toyota is “new” to the USA as a manufacturer so the number of retirees would be minimal too. GM pays for 80 years history of its laborforce.

Neurophius is right though in questioning the healthcare cost disparity.

*g*

I’ve watched this trend downward for all workers and the union demonization all my life.

I found the attitudes of lower paid workers here in south particulary shocking when I moved down here twenty years ago, big business need hardly open their mouth around here anymore to denigrate unions, the poor have it covered.

I do think a new plan by unions like SEIU is a good thing, but I’m not so quick to give up on manufacturing jobs just yet.

I think a little Chinese saber rattling might someday have some politicians rethink tax breaks for closing down plants and moving overseas, lest we repeat the mistakes in having a weak defense manufacturing sector that preceded WWII.

Diogenes,

Welcome to FDL and thank you for a great post.

Urging eveyone to go to the Purple Ocean Link above – my, my, my, grassroots, actions, networking, virtual think tanks – where the public is invited – Andy Stern is the shit !

me to me – props – you raise several important points above

Union internationalism in the USA was quite weakened by the exigencies of the Cold War. Many unions overseas are quite “Red” and this was anathema to many U.S. labor leaders…

Ditto on the health care question. I can understand the point for Toyotas assembled in Japan- but those are few and far between as I understand it. It’s also an issue for those assembled in Canada- but GM does some assembly in Canada as well. Of course there is a difference in health care costs for corporate office employees- but that shouldn’t be a major factor.

That being said, health care costs in general are certainly a problem for american companies.

Thanks, diogenes. This is a really powerful piece. I really love this part:

The media that loves to portray unions as corrupt and mobbed up played down the fact the cops and firemen that ran into the WTC on 9/11 were union members. That the pilots and flight attendants on the high-jacked flights were my union brothers and sisters. That the arsenal of democracy is assembled, in large part, by union members

The right wing noise machine has no good answer for that.

Larry 10 – you have a way with words :~)

Diogenes, do you have access to the true cost of Out-Sourcing and/or Out-Shoring, lost revenues for communities, state and federal ?
Do you have also the same rational calculation for Wal*Mart, example comes to your community and creates 600 low paying jobs but eliminates 800 higher paying jobs in a couple of years, but whatever, they are Wal*Mart…

I think this was posted earlier- but just in case some missed it- it’s gold:

AMERICAblog reader Bill writes in about his phone call to Senator Crapo’s office (R-ID) this afternoon:
Is Senator Crapo in favor of traditional marriage?
Yes he is, he’s a cosponsor of the bill.
He is? Can you tell me if he masturbates?
I could not tell you that.
Can you tell me, do you masturbate?
I cannot tell you that either.
Can you tell me, does he commit sodomy, analingus, cunnilingus or fellatio?
What is the purpose of this questioning?
It’s regarding his views on traditional marriage.
Okay, he supports the bill.
Yes, but could you tell me does he commit sodomy?
I could not give you an answer on that.
Is he willing to pledge that he has not or will not commit sodomy?
I could not answer that.
Has he ever had sex before or outside of marriage?
Again, sir, what is the point of this questioning?
It’s regarding traditional marriage and how far his support goes.
Any one of those questions I could not answer.
Have you ever had sex outside of marriage?
Again, I will not answer that.
It’s nobody’s business, right?
That’s right.
Okay, thank you.

There is truth to the fact that Unions caused some of their own pain and injuries (organized crime ties, brutal tactics, etc.).

But a lot more pain and injury has been caused by corporations! Anyone remember Love Canal? How about Agent Orange?

How about you’ve been “reduced in force” for the nth time! And the CEO just got $100 mill in freebie stock options for doing it!

How about that pension you were promised just got toasted by a corporate attorney appointed as a Federal Bancrupty Judge?

The death of Unions has been long and lingering, but nothing has moved into the vacuum to protect us!

Not the Goverment which the Repugs have been dedicated to tearing down for the last couple decades, not the Courts which have been stacked with corporate good ol’ boys (most of the Supremes came out of corporate law!).

So let’s give a cheer for the good old American traits of Individualism and Self-reliance!

Civilization…something that got started when individuals banded together for the benefit of the group.

When did we become uncivilized?

First of all, Andy Stern is not a saint and is not a hero. He believes in building a coprorate enviornment within the union to respond to the corporate eniviornment of the employer. Prob lem with that is the members may not be in agreement. A union cannot be successful if it is not democratic. Stern has trusteed too many locals that merely disagreed with his plans. These are local unions that were meeting the needs of the membership, but not in agreement with his grand vision. Unions cannot thrive without union democracy. Additionally, he installs leaders who are Ivy educated, predominantly white men to implement the grand plan. Organizing may be the motto, but the membership is not well served when it comes to contract enforcement. Too much power at the top means the union boss is making deals that the locals don’t want. The ED of the California Nurses Association told of an agreement Stern made to sacrifice patient care for a pay incentive for clerks answering telephone calls. In health care there should be no difference between the goals of the union and the needs of patients.

Manufacturing jobs must be kept in the US. Trade agreements have to meet the needs of workers in both the US and the other country under agreement. It is not pie in the sky. For those fools who feel that manufacturing is old hat–it will come back once the wages and benefits have been driven down to the wages in China. Jobs that went to China are now being driven to Viet Nam because the shortage of workers are driving up wages. Capitalism is the enemy.

Change to Win is good on immigration. By only organizing immigrant labor, however, they have given up on the American Dream. Wages and benefits will never match those of manufacturing. That sacrifice need not be made.

The plan does not have to manufacturing vs. service. All must be included.

Kindly read Robert Fitch’s book SOLIDARITY FOR SALE. While anti-union animus certainly makes it difficult to organize, the structure of American unions makes it impossible to respond. Ultimately, the structure of unions must be changed.

Harry,

here are some Wal Mart facts from the link above

http://factchecker.purpleocean.org/

suspect the SEIU site (also linked above) may have some of the info you’re looking for

there’s a particularly disgusting TV spot from Wal*Mart where they tout how much a community gains: a banner on a streetlight shows “Gastonia” — that town was a very famous textile center and the scene of notable strikes. Gastonia was the location of “runaway plants” from New England to cheap Southern labor; years of organizing unionized the plants finally. Then the plants “ran away” again overseas to produce goods now sold in Wal*Mart. Quite ironic, eh?

punaise 16

I remain unsullied

When I try to tell non-union people what a union is, their eyes glaze over.

They always bring up the points of, “But they defend that worker who was doing drugs on company time!” And I tell them, you’d better believe the union defends him. Union members PAID the union to defend workers when their jobs are on the line, and we expect the union to do that, no matter what–because we, the workers, don’t know all the facts in ANY case. Was the worker really doing drugs…or is management just saying that to get rid of the guy? In such cases, unions are lawyers for employees. And as with lawyers, you don’t know when you’ll need one to bail your ass out.

A lot of times, these cases work out exactly like a court of law would: Some people get off on a technicality (Mgmt not following proper procedures in a termination, as per the collective bargaining agreement). Some lose their jobs (are found guilty). Some are found to have no evidence against them (found not guilty).

And sometimes, a union will win because management frickin’ blinks at the negotiating table. I have seen the latter too many times to count. A lot of people really deserve to lose their jobs, the union knows it but they have to represent this employee, what the hell, they’ll give it their best shot. But the unexpected happens and the employee wins, BECAUSE MANAGEMENT CAVED. F’r instance, we have a zero-tolerance policy for violence. But I was a witness to two employees getting into a fist fight, on company time. They both got their jobs back. Evenutally. But they got them back. BECAUSE MANAGEMENT CAVED, even when they had those two nailed to the ground. That’s the part that never goes into media stories about an outrage regarding a union successfully defending a fuckup: MANAGEMENT CAVES.

I hear a lot about the “unfairness” of the seniority system, when anybody who’s ever worked at a non-union job can write chapter and verse about the unfairness of promotions in the non-union sector. The standards are extremely arbitrary there, and you rarely know what will really get you promoted or stuck in a dead-end job. One thing about seniority: It’s cut and dried. You’ve been on the job long enough to win a competitive bid for a new job, or you haven’t. It doesn’t matter about your race or your gender. It doesn’t matter if the boss likes you or not. It doesn’t matter if you went to his house for dinner, or attended the same church. Or did the opposite. If you’re the senior person, you’re gonna get the job. Maybe this is why, in many union shops, you see more minorities and women in a site’s coveted jobs than in the non-union sector. Gone are the barriers of the standard promotions system that hold back women and minorities elsewhere.

Tony Pinata delivers yet another White House briefing. A snippet :
WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY TONY SNOW: Whether it passes or not, as you know, Terry, there have been a number of cases where civil rights matters have risen on a number of occasions, and they’ve been brought up for repeated consideration by the United States Senate and other legislative bodies…

Q You mentioned civil rights. Are you comparing this to various civil rights measures which have come to the Congress over the years?

MR. SNOW: Not — well, these — it –

Q Is this a civil right?

MR. SNOW: Marriage? It actually — what we’re really talking about here is an attempt to try to maintain the traditional meaning of an institution that has maintained one meeting for — meaning for a period of centuries. And furthermore –

Q And you would equate that with civil rights?

MR. SNOW: No, I’m just saying that I think — well, I don’t know. How do you define civil rights?

Q It’s not up to me. Up to you.

MR. SNOW: Okay. Well, no, it’s your question. So I — if I –

Q (Chuckles.)

MR. SNOW: I need to get a more precise definition.

#

Non-Union workers are often ignorant of the role union contracts play in keeping their OWN pay and benefits much higher than they would be otherwise. Wonder if the unions have a way of getting this message out.

*ilson46201 @ 6:36 pm (#9) [and Neurophius] – According to a report I heard on The News Hour a while back, the largest difference related to labor costs between GM and the Japanese companies that manufacture here (such as Toyota) is the burden of pensions and health care for retirees. This, according to Paul Solman, amounts to about $2,500 per car that Toyota and most foreign car companies don’t have to pay even when they manufacture cars here. Eventually, this gap may close a little, but GM’s early retirement and layoff benefits are so good that it will probably take 30 years, until most of the current retirees die, go on Medicare, or find other paying jobs.

Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, said that while he believed marriage should be between a man and a woman, he said he would vote against the amendment to ban gay marriage because the matter was already being addressed by the states. He quoted the late Sen. Barry Goldwater as saying that government “ought to be kept off our backs, out of our pocketbooks and out of our bedrooms.”

“This is a matter which ought to be left to the states, and the states are taking care of it,” he said. “It’s a matter of privacy, it’s a matter of tolerance, two very, very highly placed values in our society.”

Another Republican, Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, said that he would support the amendment, and that he was disturbed that some critics of it said the measure amounted to bigotry against one group in society.

“What people are trying to do here is make fundamental policy for the country on a fundamental issue, and that’s marriage,” he said. “It is not bigotry to define marriage as between a man and a woman.”

If that were the case, Mr. Brownback said, then people would have to conclude that people in the states that have banned gay marriage, as well as the many religious leaders who backed them, were bigots.

“They’re not bigoted individuals,” he said. “They’re simply seeking good public policy. Let’s watch our language here.”

(NYT)

OT, great news that Air America is going to stream live gavel to gavel video of YearlyKos. It will cost $10 if you aren’t already a premium AAR member, but that seems cheap given the cost of producing the video.

http://www.airamericaradio.com/yearly-kos/

I hope we can download the videos afterwards. I’ve GOT to see the Plame panel! :)

Jane,

If you are still here–I imagine you get a lot of e-mail, but I hope you will take the time to look at the one I sent you a short while ago. You will recognize it by the subject line, which reads “NEUROPHIUS.” I would really appreciate hearing back from you.

Let us not forget that coathanger joe remains one of the most rock-solid suck up supporters of NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO and China PNTR.

These anti-worker pacts were stripped of labor/wage/human rights/environmental protections and thus undermined American jobs, wages, and benefits.

He has attacked anyone who raises any questions about these trade deals.
Of course,for this, Washington pundits quickly don those knee pads and waddle right up to call him a courageous “centrist.”

Larry @ 7:18 p.m.

What kind of support does Joementum get from unions? Are they on to his game, or do they suffer the same myopia toward incumbents that some of the progressive interest groups do?

Are you kids ready for my Late Nite FDL post, or should I wait a little longer to unleash it upon the world?

Toyota’s plants in America are younger vs. the Big Three and that is part, but not all of the explanation.

A good part of Toyota’s infrastructure is in Japan, so they have a cost advantage vis a vis GM.

Moreover, because Japan’s healthcare is socialized, they have, in effect, one big insurance pool. That makes costs for middle-aged and older workers comparatively cheaper than health care for similiarly aged American workers.

Here is one notion I’d love to know the answer too.

For American Toyota plants, does Toyota bear the same health care costs as GM does, or do they get an advatageous tax angle, either on their American or Japanese taxes? If anybody knows the real deal, please spill!

As for Stern, I don’t think he is a saint, but I do think he’s making some needed changes. Labor was backing up under the business-as-usual regime. Change is needed.

I’ve heard the knock he gets too close to management – any SEIU’ers out there with bona fide information? That could also be sour grapes from AFL-CIO.

I can testify the rank-and-file at IAMAW, AFA and ALPA thought their leadership was way too chummy with management at US Airways.

Whatcha got, TRex?

Lay it on us TRex…can’t wait

OT: I left the transcipt from the Cafferty report Taylor mentioned (the one about the news losing interest in Iraq) in the previous thread.

Thank you for the article. I wish you’d stuck around, but fully understand. My point of confusion is the basis for the rise of Change To Win….it seems to be oriented to service employees…but I always thought that AFL-CIO welcomed the service unions….questions, questions, questions!
Well, I’ll try to read your links, perhaps I’ll learn something there.
Ghostman

TRex, well if you post LATE NITE at 10:30 eastern, that would be a record (early). May I suggest 11:00 at least?

Sigh.

Okay, VG. I think I can keep this one in my pants just a little bit longer.

It’s called “Uncle Tom’s Closet”. Guess what it’s about!

neurophius 32

Good question.

I am sure johncasper can answer that.

He knows everything.

Hello all!

Toyota as a whole will never have the retiree health care costs GM does, because much those costs are socialized.

A good part of Toyota is still located in Japan, so they have a cost advantage vis a vis GM.

With respect to Toyota’s American operations, the fact they have a younger workforce is part of the explanation. However, I don’t think Toyota would put themselves in a situation where their costs would eventually catch up to GM’s.

Here’s a question I don’t know the answer too. Does Toyota bear the same health care costs for their American operations as GM does, or do they get a tax break or credit from the American or Japanese government? If anybody knows, please dish!

isn’t it odd that the mobs made the unions heard by the power in DC
isn’t it odd that the unions have declined,
and the mobs are now our government

Diogenes 42
Knowing congress I am sure that we taxpayers are footing the bill

Apologize for the partial double post – my pc is a little weird this evening!

Ghostman,

There are service outfits in the AFL-CIO. At many airlines, the IAMAW represents mechanics (more like traditional manufacturing) and agents (definitely service) and the intrigue can make the Medici Court look like Sunday School!

Many with fleet service at US Airways felt like they were cannon fodder for the mechanics.

neurophius- my response- this might be a crazy week for Jane et al. bec. of yKos and all that entails. So, email responses might not come too quickly. Just my guess.

diogenes @ 7:37 pm (#42) – I agree that Toyota’s pension costs will never equal GM’s, what I said was that the gap should close over time, because Toyota’s will tend to rise as their workforce gets older and they go on pension, and because GM’s will almost inevitably fall. But there will continue to be a gap for decades regardless of what the two companies do.

The other problem GM has versus Toyota is that they build much less reliable cars. As the NewsHour segment said, if you buy a GM car you should put your mechanic on retainer. They’re losing long-term customers by building lower quality cars than the competition.

TRex — I usually try to post Late Nite at 8pm PDT/11pm EDT. Don’t always make it though.

Chrysler Minivans are assembled in Canada — the labor costs are lower than in the US, in part because of the Canadian Universal Health Care System.

The USA has the worst health care, delivered at the highest cost, of any industrialized nation — but that doesn’t stop the GOP from gaming the system in favor of the Insurance Industry and Big Pharma, to the detriment of all Americans. Even worse, the Government pays a substantial portion of research for new drugs, while Big Pharma reaps windfall profits.

The Modern GOP — the best government Big Business can buy. Privatized Profits, while the taxpayer assumes the risk.

Thanks for visiting with us D.

We are usually much more engaging.

It’s a wonderful post Diogenes. Union issues are almost overlooked it seems these days. My parents were from WV and my grandparents on both sides had little in common, except a similar tone they took when discussing the strike breakers in WV and the clashes with miners. My now deceased SIL worked for the Post Office and while there were times when she grumbled, there were more times praised. When she was diagnosed with cancer, she had a very tight timeline. The ways in which the Union helped her and her family made me feel an obligation that won’t ever really go away. Three months and five children. Hospice and the Union were tremendous supports for all of us.

Hey, Jane! I spoke with Kobe’s girlfriend earlier when I was banging my head on the desk convinced I’d never get the post written and the image sized in time and yadda yadda yadda. She said I’d missed you, but offered a doggie treat and a pat on the head by way of encouragement.

Thanks again for having me as Late Nite guest host!

45, diogenes….right. I was reading the Wapo article you linked to. Hmmmm. I understand the arguments of both Sweeny (we need to effect political change) as well as this Change To Win group….almost like a “chicken and egg” argument.

And, on the airline outfits….I’ve always viewed them as….kind of….odd. They’ll go on strike, but seldom honor the picket line of another union outfit at the same airline that goes on strike. Don’t know what my point is….except to say that those airline unions can be pretty cut-throat with each other!
Ghostman

Larry,

You’re right, domestic companies can deduct their health care costs.

http://www.amerilawyer.com/nyprofcorp.htm

One would assume Toyota’s American ops do the same thing, but maybe they also get a deal from their own government.

Personally, I’d like to see corporations get out of the health care and retirement business. Mainly because you can’t count on it when you need it.

I’d prefer nationalized health care, but I’d settle for commoditizing health insurance (take that, Blue Cross!)to lower costs, and then some form of MSA/EIC so that everybody can buy it.

You talked with Kobe’s nude model girlfriend Dessa? He LOVES her.

TRexUS

At KIRO Radio in Seattle, two employees led a successful move to decertify AFTRA. Within months, both were fired. Although it seemed to serve them right, the real losers are the remining employees who now have no Union protection.

You talked with Kobe’s nude model girlfriend Dessa?

Indeed I did. She was in the middle of giving him a foot-rub, but stopped long enough to take my call.

Diogenes,

My friend tells me that they double dip on that and actually make money.

If we don’t figure out a way to provide plentiful good-paying jobs for all who want them — and I’m not confident we will — then we need to let go of our self-image as one of the wealthy, civilized nations. Everyone knows this is true.

Corporations are not interested in the wealth of nations or any nation’s welfare. They aren’t supposed to be.

Everyone knows this, and everyone used to acknowledge it out loud. But we live under fascism now. We hear all the time about work Americans won’t do, but no one blinks an eye at wages corporations won’t pay.

Wages are like blood in the national body. The blood has to circulate, and there has to be enough of it, or the system will break down, the body will die. Anyone who pays wages that won’t sustain a worker and family is like a leech on the American body. It’s so obviously true, anyone who argues against this is not a patriot.

cujo at 47,

Of course!

What with Toyota moving operations to America, and GM offshoring, it’s hard to know what true costs they are bearing, isn’t it? They’re not exactly transparent about it, either!

So far, I’ve been luck with my GM stuff and Dodge truck, but our Buick, while good, is not up to Toyota or Honda standards.

sonate at 8,

A harbinger of things to come. Reagan’s actions signaled corporations that aggression towards labor would be tolerated by his administration. Who the President appoints to chair the NMB, NLRB, DOL and EEOC have major consequences.

Union do not have infinite resources, and eventually do not put up cases they have historically won, but are now regularly losing.

Off topic – Peter King, a writer for Sports Illustrated, has again weighed in on politics in his column.

A few weeks ago he expressed his frustration and embarrassment with the way the government handled Katrina’s aftermath.

Today, he has one special line at the end of his list of his random thoughts.

King says, simply, “Run, Al Gore, run.”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c…..mqb/4.html

I’m really starting to like this Peter King guy.

diogenes, great post! I hope we have a union post every week.

Harry @ 17

This’ll get you started!

http://www.votenader.org/issues/index.php?cid=47

http://portland.indymedia.org/…..0707.shtml

http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..Id=4975919

Here’s a money quote from one of the links.

“The Democratic Staff of the Committee on Education and the Workforce estimates that one 200-person Wal-Mart store may result in a cost to federal taxpayers of $420,750 per year – about $2,103 per employee. Specifically, the low wages result in the following additional public costs being passed along to taxpayers:

$36,000 a year for free and reduced lunches for just 50 qualifying Wal-Mart families.
$42,000 a year for Section 8 housing assistance, assuming 3% of the store employees qualify for such assistance, at $6,700 per family.
$125,000 a year for federal tax credits and deductions for low-income families, assuming 50 employees are heads of household with a child and 50 are married with two children.
$100,000 a year for the additional Title I expenses, assuming 50 Wal-Mart families qualify with an average of 2 children.
$108,000 a year for the additional federal health care costs of moving into state children’s health insurance programs (S-CHIP), assuming 30 employees with an average of two children qualify.
$9,750 a year for the additional costs for low income energy assistance.
_Wal-Mart freely acknowledges shifting its health care costs to taxpayers and responsible employers. A company spokesman said, “[Wal-Mart employees] who chose not to participate in [Wal- Mart’s health plan] usually get their health care benefits from…the state or federal government” (UPI, 12/2/98).”

Thanks all, especially Diogenes for the answers and links.

Bush is quietly union busting.

You mention the Air Traffic Controlers (ATC ).

Bush privatized a major part of the FAA last October. The 2500 ATC were fired from the FAA at put to work for Lockheed. Their union is gone. Their retirement benefits are gone.

These employees have no options in the private sector, the only employer of ATC is the FAA and now Lockheed.

Here is part of a letter one ATC wrote to his congressman.

Approximately fifty percent of the current workforce will lose their pension and the other half will have to take a reduced pension. I am one of the reduced pension employees. I have been offered a job for as long as Buffalo stays opens at the same pay.

I will ,however, lose approximately 50% of my expected FERS pension after 19 years of service. I am currently 50 years old and it is too late to build a 401k to a level that would replace that expected pension. The contractor has offered jobs to all incumbent employees; their plan is to reduce that staffing by 50% in the first year. The FAA priority placement program (which I do not qualify due to age)is a public relations ploy and has no substance.

The FAA has placed less than 5% of the current workforce into other jobs within the FAA. This even though they are hiring new Air Traffic Controllers at a rate of around 1000 a year. We are eligible and considered well qualified for these positions. Clearly, the employees are not being taken care of.

The FAA employee’s were trying to save their jobs last summer. This WaPo article lays out the bill that would protect these workers and the administration position.

Bush won. Lockheed now controls a large part of the former FAA function. The National Security issued are also a problem in my opinion.

The Bush administration has promised to lobby against provisions that would curb the competitive sourcing initiative, and has threatened a veto of the transportation-treasury bill
WaPo 7/22/05

#20 and 65: salient points – thank you. Diogenes – thanks for the provocative prompt.

pollyusa,

Sad and unsurprising.

I’d give some time off my life for Dems to rally around basic Constitutional rights, one of which is the right to organize in any way we wish – bowling league, internet chat sight, etc.

I still can’t get over the sole major outfit in America that has to jump thru hoops to get together is unions.

Arghhhhhh!

Here’s the Democrat who’s the original source for the money quote at 65 (knew I had it archived somewhere!).

http://edworkforce.house.gov/d…..21604.html

Now if we could just get Rahm Emmanuel to pay attention!

pollyusa @ 8:53 pm (#67) – This seems to be part of a trend that’s been going on for some time. I referred to it in a thread here a couple of weeks ago, I believe. The federal government has been gradually turning civil service jobs over to contractors. The spin is that this creates greater efficiency. If anything, I think the opposite is true. What it does is dilute responsibility for the success of government programs between two organizations.

Anyhow, the only people I see profiting from this are the same rich bastards and crooks who are raking it in on seemingly every federal program.

Oh, and thanks, diogenes. I haven’t had much involvement with unions since I left a large aerospace contractor twenty years ago. It’s sad to see this happening, because there’s no other force that seems to be helping working people very much these days. All you have to do is look at what’s happened to wages and salaries in the last two decades to know that there’s nothing to protect us anymore.

Dems need balls says: at 6:53

i’ve been wondering, for a while, about something that could surely change the “structure” or nature of unions. what if a union could come together, of human beings. the human beings whose very life depends on the survival of particular conditions on earth. a union who recognized, that without it’s worthy efforts, the nasty corporate organisms glopping themselves all over the delicate and irreplaceble resources of our planet, would be nothing?

I used to be a IBEW member until I was disabled.
Every construction crew that I ever worked with, busted their asses. We work hard and are highly educated in our field. We were taught to double check engineers. I dont know how many times I had to say, its not going to work or its against code. I would spend more time wasted with having to tell the engineer why he was wrong and what code it violeted. Thats a bit of background, so
you guys will understand what I am going to explain to non-union, or white collar workers.

Each Trade Union has a program that helps organise non union workers. This is only dealing with construction. Organising a plant is totally different. Everything I read above is technically right for unionizing a plant.
But in construction, we call it salting a job.
If you want to salt a job you have to go thru training. Training is usually how to explain what a union is, how it works and how it benfits
the worker. You also learn your rights, the union member trying to organise workers, as long as you talk during breaks and lunch. Thats the short version, I could get more in depth, but its not really needed.

So, after you learn all this stuff, the hall will send you out to the job site that your gonna salt. The job site you go to, has not a clue that your union. I havent heard anyone not getting a job at the non union site, but I am sure there have been times. Of Course labor market was tight, so I figure they would give anyone a job. You go and you work like you normally would, and your gonna talk, just getting to know you kind of thing, you dont start yet. So after a few days, you start at breaks and lunch, not everyone takes kindly to what your saying. They cant do anything to ya cus your on your time. I have been thrown off quite a few job sites, but usually took a few guys with me.

Another aspect of salting is going thru legal channels, suing for unfair labor practises and things like that. I really dont know much about that, wasnt my thing.

I hope I explained this so you guys can understand it. I aplogise for the lenght and any errors I made in spelling and such.
If any of you are in any of the trade unions,
Go Salt A Job, its really fun.

If you want to organize a union somewhere, just make a big sign that says, “Unionize.com” or some such and stand across the street from the business entrance with it.

The web is the perfect way for folks to meet and communicate without giving away who they are until they’re ready to.

I read at the Cryptome site about the building of the WTC in NYC that the firefighters union was opposed to it for ‘ Towering Inferno’ type obvious reasons. They even threatened bans on attending fire alarm calls to the twin towers. Unfortunately due to the sustained anti-union campaigns run continuously by the lunar right a lot of firies died on 9-11.
The union just doesn’t keep you strong – it often keeps you alive and thats why, in spite of some abuses and bad practises endemic to all groups, unions need supporting. So long as we have a large state and global corporations unions will be necessary imho. If you really want to get rid of unions – get rid of the corporate state first.

I’m glad you’re posting on union issues. I do think you make too much of the differences between Change To Win and the AFL-CIO. Both agree that more organizing needs to be done, the differences are a matter of percentages than philosophy IMO. Remember Stern had a lot of influence in the AFL-CIO before he left; he didn’t get it to go all his way, so he left. (There has been some serious disagreement, with which I am personally familiar, about how SEIU is consolidating some of its locals.) Fighting the last battle? What, are AFL-CIO unions supposed to abandon those they represent in manufacturing and other traditional sectors? Of course not.
I also think it’s unfair to say that the AFL-CIO “came up short” in the 2000 and 2004 elections. The union vote came out. It was the rest of the vote that really hurt us. Finally, I absolutely disagree that the union movement needs to accept globalization, as such. I would say that the union movement needs to shape how globalization affects workers, by (among other things) getting national health care here and workers’ rights protections in our trading partners abroad.
In solidarity,
Marek

Marek,

What I’m hoping happens at Change to Win is more involvement from the bottom-up. My experience has been no input sought from the rank and file, all decisions made at the top, and marching orders sent out to the troops from HQ. Not very democratic. Hope that changes at SEIU – be interested to hear from their rank and filers.

Stern tried to work with AFL-CIO, and when it didn’t go his way, he bolted. I agree he is not a radical difference – just different priorities. But believe me – they don’t like each other. And I’ve seen unions on the same property duke it out – IAMAW talks crap about CWA, CWA disses ALPA, etc. Again, to me, if Change to Win involves their membership, that will ultimately become more important than organizing/politicking priorities. If both union wings don’t let personalities get in the way of their mission, they’ll be ok. If they get into a pissing contest (been there, seen that), we’re in for a world of hurt.

Yes, labor turned out, and the elections were stolen. The facts on the ground are, Republicans rule. Do we have any confidence ‘06 and ‘08 will be any different? Only the current Rep. tailsin, and it’s not enough for Dems to say “we ain’t Republican!” I hope a coalition of progressives – bloggers, labor, churches, folks of good will – will unite and take the country back from the military-industrial-media complex.

Regarding globalization – the fact it happens can not be stopped – you don’t know how much I hate to say that! Even if a coalition of industrialized nations had agreed not to do it, someone would have leaked thru, putting the others at a disadvantage.

What could and should have happened was to regulate (Just like Article 1: Section 8 says!) globalization. Since corporations were going to reap major windfalls, as they globalized, they should have been mandated to partner with government to fund income, healthcare and re-education to displaced workers.

And mandated minimum conditions for the target countries. If GM had to treat Mexican workers right, we’d have less illegal immigration – that’s the ultimate solution to that problem.

Plus environmental protections. Don’t get me started!

None of which happened under NAFTA – negotiated by Bush, signed by Clinton.

Which is why I have no particular affection for the man or the DLC. For practical purposes, he was about as Republican as Gerry Ford.

Which I’ll freely admit, is light years ahead of Reagan and Bush.

You and I are like the blind men and the elephant – we both have our hands on the truth, we just get there different ways.

Thanks for the response.

Oh, and in my conspiracy moments, global corporations knew they way they globalized would weaken the state and unions, the only two forces with the weight to stay in the ring with them.

Coinky-dink?

diogenes,

I agree that CTW and AFL-CIO, at least at the top, don’t like each other. I think the split was more a function of this than of real programmatic differences. Anyway, I hope for more member involvement in all unions – it’s the only way to keep them strong. (Again, the forced merger of some SEIU locals was as top-down as anything I’ve seen in labor.) And I think we agree on much more than we know about the rest.

In solidarity,
Marek
(former member, 1199 NYC)

Out here in the Bay Area, the National Park Service has just awarded the incredibly lucrative Alcatraz ferry contract (the boats that take folks to and from the island) to a non-union company. Typically, the Bush appointees at the NPS ignored a prevailing wage law when they awarded the bid to Hornblower. (Hornblower is the Wal-Mart of the seas. It pays its undertrained people less than $10 an hour – less than $20 for Captains! – with no benefits.) Fortunately, the IBU and ILWU Unions took Hornblower and the NPS to court and received an injunction whereby Hornblower must either convince the court that the prevailing wage statute does not apply to them or resubmit the bid factoring in the higher wages they must pay. But with the way this country is going, I would not be surprised to see the contract go to Hornblower anyway fter the injunction lifts. For over six months, the NPS simply ignored the Labor Department’s inquiries about the prevailing wage law. It blows my mind how these people think they are above the law! What the hell is going on in this country!

The Neocons are back to the future……they are going after the air traffic controllers again. The house debated HR5449 tonight and vote on it tomorrow. Scary if it doesn’t pass