
The administration whose new spokesman can't even define what a civil right is has reaffirmed its support of the Federal Marriage Amendment today. And I say, thank god, given the reality of the threat to America's wholesome, heterosexual marriages posed by the Gay Agenda. "Marriage in this country is under attack!" shrieks Bill Frist and the Rightards come running. I personally know several otherwise happily married straight couples whose marriages have been brutally attacked by packs of raving Activist Judges in the last few weeks alone. This real and present danger to our way of life must be stopped at once.
Oddly enough, though, word has reached us that Bush himself "doesn't give a sh*t about gay marriage", according to an anonymous source in this Newsweek article. In fact, Bush has several gay people on his staff, and they were instrumental to his rise to power . So, what is the Deciderer's real motivation here? Politics. It is clearly shaping up to be a difficult election year for the GOP. Everything they've touched has turned to shit. Bush has kind of a reverse-Midas energy going, here, as his poll numbers sink lower and lower. So, having screwed the proverbial pooch (Are ya listening, Li'l Ricky Santorum? We know that kind of talk gets you all hot and bothered.) on the War on Terror, Port Security, Immigration, the economy, the War in Iraq, Social Security, gas prices, and human animal hybrids, the Reich Wing is going to the last well on its property, Bashing The Gays. Never mind how many times they've been to that particular well before. It's the last straw they could clutch, last gas station before the freeway, the last hope they have to turn out their mouth-breathing, slope-headed, knuckle dragging base of rock-throwing villagers, and disgustingly, it seems to be working. Conservatives love their Boy King again! He's beating up on the faggots! And who doesn't love that?
What I have to ask, though, is who these gay republicans on Chimpy McFlightsuit's staff and party roster are and how they can continue to support an administration that clearly seeks to undermine their rights as citizens? We hear a great deal of whispering and finger-pointing about Ken Mehlman, Ralphie Reed, Scott McClellan, David Dreier, Duke Cunningham, Michael Ames, Paul Dickerson, Santorum's recently outed chief advisor Bob Traynham and more, including (and yes, it makes me cringe, too) Karl Rove. And who can forget everybody's favorite Man Ho, Jeff Gannon/Jim Guckert? Or that veritable ingenue of purpose and conviction, Mary Cheney?
Who are these people, that they can rise from their beds every day and look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they are undermining themselves and every other gay man and lesbian in this country? That while they are content to gather crumbs from underneath the tables of the powerful, they are stripping themselves and their brothers and sisters of their rights?
How can they do it? Does the cognitive dissonance ever make their ears ring or, you know, give them migraines?
I have thought long and hard about it and still it baffles me. What does it take to make someone a Jew for Hitler, a negro for slavery, a woman for Reagan, i.e., a Gay Republican?
For a while, I thought it was just another case of Repugnican "Do as I say, not as I do" thinking, but after much thought, and a careful reading of this intriguing kos diary by Padraig Pearse, it has gradually dawned on me that the reason these people have become collaborators with the enemy is much the same as any occupied people's. They don't care whose side they're on, as long as they're winning, for one thing. It enables them to reap the benefits of being in the ruling party and also indulges their deeply held feelings of shame and unworthiness. For you see, these people like to party like it's 1959. Padraig says:
That many Gay Republicans should prefer the closety games of the 1950s over the open Gay culture that arose out of the post Stonewall era should come as no surprise. They are reactionaries after all. In fact, I know Gay men of a certain age and income who routinely excoriate "the fags" while nonetheless indulging appetites and behaviours that would leave Margaret Sperling's head spinning. But since the lights are out in their orgy rooms, good Republicans are happy to just overlook and pretend not to see. It is the public avowal of affection that makes them crazy over the gay marriage issue. To compare Gay marriage to a perversion, as right next to bestiality is on the face of it insane. Gay people seeking to have stable monogamous relationships accepted into their families and their communities are, in key respects, far more conservative and traditional than the many gays in the republican party who scuttle around in the shadows, procuring illicit sex and using sites like MilitaryEscortM4M.com.
And then, suddenly, it all makes perfect sense to me. These people like the lies, the façades, the illicit nature of The Love that Dare Not Speak its Naaaaaame. They like their homosexuality to be all about sex and nothing more. Furtive meetings and assignations, sex in public cruising areas, marriages of convenience. The whole notion of changing diapers, balancing checkbooks, buying a house, keeping a family clothed, educated, and nourished? Anathema to the Gay Republican. Why would you want to tutor your child in spelling when you could be doing poppers in a bath house with some anonymous hustler or playing poker with a military escort (*cough*!) at the Watergate?
Once when I was a very young gay man, I was told by a certain Old Queen to give up on my notions of finding a loving partner and settling down into a real relationship. "Men cannot truly fall in love with each other," he told me, "We're incapable of monogamous relationships. So, enjoy the sex, enjoy your friends, but don't expect to find a relationship like your parents have. It doesn't work that way for us."
Fortunately, I saw this advice for exactly the steaming pile of horseshit that it was. "That may be true for you," I said, "But it's different now. My generation doesn't have the psychic and spiritual wounds that yours does. You have internalized their hate and turned it on yourself."
Said Old Queen patted me indulgently on the head and assured me that I would find out in time. I was 16, then, and while I am single now, I have had deep and loving relationships with other men and I look forward to more when the time is right. But it's precisely this sort of attitude, whether among the "Christian" Right, or among our own people, that must be smashed if we are to overcome this glaring assault on the rights and privacy of all Americans. Fortunately, the FMA probably won't even make it out of the Senate. Unfortunately, we get to spend the next little while watching it bring all the baying monsters out to spew their vile, nonsensical rhetoric of hate and exclusion. I can only pray that this might be the beginning of the end of ever having to hear about it again.
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fitz!
fitz
ROOTS! TOM ! Your Naked !
What’s a popper? Can I have one?
No, Tart. You don’t want a popper. They’re nasty.
Trex- I am going to repost something from Bobby G on an earlier thread: comment at http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-130960
==%u2026Gallup asked 1,003 Americans to say – without any prompting from the pollsters – what should be the “top priority for the president and Congress to deal with.” Here is the complete tally of responses:
Situation in Iraq/war: 42 percent.
Fuel/oil prices/lack of energy sources/the energy crisis: 29 percent.
Immigration/illegal aliens: 23 percent.
Economy in general: 14 percent.
Poor healthcare/hospitals; high cost of healthcare: 12 percent.
Terrorism: 4 percent.
Education/poor education/access to education: 4 percent.
Federal budget deficit/federal debt: 3 percent.
Unemployment/jobs: 3 percent.
Taxes: 3 percent.
Social Security: 2 percent.
International issues/problems: 2 percent.
National security: 2 percent.
Environment/pollution: 2 percent.
Medicare: 2 percent.
Foreign aid/focus overseas: 2 percent.
Poor leadership/corruption/dissatisfaction with government/ Congress/politicians/candidates: 2 percent.
Poverty/ hunger/ homelessness: 1 percent.
Ethics/moral/religious/family decline; dishonesty; lack of integrity: 1 percent.
Natural disaster relief/funding: 1 percent.
Trade deficit/foreign trade: 1 percent.
High cost of living/inflation: 1 percent.
Unifying the country: Less than .5 percent.
Judicial system/courts/laws: Less than .5 percent.
Abortion: Less than .5 percent
Lack of money: Less than .5 percent.
Gap between rich and poor: Less than .5 percent.
Other: 1 percent.
No opinion: 4 percent.
_____
Gay marriage didn’t even make the list, LOL. (Bobby G) =====
~Sorry this is long, but worth repeating. VG
WAITAMINUTE….
You’re GAY!??!?
Does Mom know?!
Best. Title. Ever.
Mark Thoma at Economist’s View has nailed the Congressional perspective (wonk alert, of sorts):
The Legislation Possibilities Curve.
Actually, commenter Richard over there, at the end of the thread, has a point. That’s not a social curve that Thoma has drawn, but a strictly Rovian sort of one.
At a time of record gas prices, record deficits, a quagmire in Iraq, saber-rattling in Iran, economic uncertainty, and all sorts of other ills, the Senate has set aside a full week to debate a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage.
Man are they pissin their pants
The wing-nut blogger self-image, a photo illustration:
http://www.nacholibre.com/
I am a straight, single, old, white girl and it is posts like this that make me love this place. You go TRex! Awesome post. Have lots of gay friends I am going to send this to. You rock!
Sorry my above post at 10 should have included a hat tip to Kos..
Off Topic but Important–Breaking News
In the supermarket checkout line today, I noticed The Globe was running this:
BUSH DIVORCE TALKS
“No one thought it would go this far.”
Where’s the New York Times? This story is “out there.” They told us about the Clintons’ marriage, now it’s time for the Bushes.
New York Times? Hello?
Back in the 1980s and 90s, a gay a cappella group called “The Flirtations” picked up a song by Fred Small called “Everything Possible” and used it to close their concerts. These concerts were full of tight harmonies, lots of laughter, occasional bursts of anger – in short, a lot like FDL, now that I think about it. At the end, though, things would get serious, as one of the Flirts would introduce Fred Small’s song like this: “Try to imagine how different you might be – how different the world might be – if more parents sang lullabies like this to their children. . .”
We have cleared off the table, the leftovers saved,
washed the dishes and put them away
I have told you a story, and tucked you in tight
at the end of your knock-about day
As the moon sets its sail to carry you to sleep,
over the midnight sea
I will sing you a song no one sang to me;
may it keep you good company:
You can be anybody that you want to be;
you can love whomever you will.
You can travel any country where your heart leads
and know I will love you still.
You can live by yourself;
You can gather friends around.
You can choose one special one
and the only measure of your words and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you’re gone.
Some girls grow up strong and bold;
some boys are quiet and kind
Some race on ahead;
some follow behind;
some grow in their own space and time
Some women love women and some men love men;
some raise children and some never do
You can dream all the day, never reaching the end
of everything possible for you.
Don’t be rattled by names, by taunts or games,
but seek out spirits true.
If you give your friends the best part of yourself,
they will give the same back to you.
You can be anybody that you want to be;
you can love whomever you will
You can travel any country where your heart leads
and know I will love you still.
You can live by yourself;
You can gather friends around.
You can choose one special one
and the only measure of your words and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you’re gone;
will be the love you leave behind when you’re gone.
At the end of the song, almost everyone was singing along, and almost everyone was a bit moist in the eyes.
I’ve sung several lullabies to my four year old son, and this one still brings tears to my eyes. “Daddy, why are you crying?” The Flirtations have since disbanded, and their lead singer died of AIDS, so you can’t see them in concert, but their CDs are still around.
For those Firepups heading to bed shortly (or not so shortly for that matter), pleasant dreams.
I know more than a few gay Republicans. They seem to feel that you can’t be gay and respectable at the same time — their insecurities are astounding.
They claim they’re Republicans because of “taxes” or “big government”, but each and everyone of them is terrified that someone will identify them with drag queens or dykes on bikes — as if you can’t be gay and establish your own identity.
Gotta go…night all….
“Im leaving on a jet plane…
Jane…remember those lyrics?
These people like the lies, the faades, the illicit nature of…Furtive meetings and assignations, sex in public cruising areas, marriages of convenience.
Hey, TR, the hetero Republicans like their sex this way, too, basically. The secrecy, the assignation, the perversions behind closed doors–Look, it’s Bill Bennet with a Dom! While his good little wife sits at home, frigid from neglect. Or fucking the pool boy. Or having a lesbian affair because he’s made sure she could never fake it with a man again.
I don’t know what fuels this impulse, perhaps a negative parent telling them all the time that sex was bad, when their bodies knew it felt so good. I just knew that I didn’t want a part of it.
these people like to party like it’s 1959
It’s kind of like Catholic schoolgirls and sex I guess. I think it’s one thing to be self-loathing and think nobody who is gay deserves to have rights (except ones’ self for being willing to rat out your own kind, a la the “queen bee” syndrome amongst women and I do mean you Phyllis Schlafley) but quite another to stand for gay rights, as Mary Cheney purportedly does, and still believe in the GOP. I don’t care what Dubya says, he just wants to stay at arms’ length from the kooks. He’d put anyone into camps tomorrow to preserve his own power, he has no principles. It doesn’t take a particularly bright bulb to figure out that the Republicans have consolidated power by hunting and persecuting gay people. There is no room for “gay rights” in the modern Republican party, so I think you could be quite right — it’s the expression of a desire to party like it’s 1959.
http://www.hrcactioncenter.org…..marriageac
http://www.petitiononline.com/0712t001/
^^^ Marriage Equality Petitions
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
TRex- what a brilliant and very moving post. Your turn of phrase and your heartfelt view will speak to many, I very much hope. You are so on the mark with what you say, or at least that is my read. Het here, but it breaks my heart that this is still up for grabs as an issue. And, it’s not exactly like het relationships are all good and pure and wonderful. Plenty of misery to go around there, from what I know. I just wish that there was more importance put on relating to individuals as individuals, and not by some label. I have had great and loyals friends of all stripes, and I have also been stiffed and *hit upon by other individuals who also wear these same stripes. The unreason of this labeling makes me truly sad.
Excellent post, Trex.
You’re on to something. There is something reptilianly illicit and compelling about self-destruction. Look how many cops go bad. How the cheating, rather than the sex, is the thrill of an affair.Or self-immolate with drink or drugs.
Life its own self is hard enough. But when you compress and oppress it like the Repugs do, some ugly things are going to pop out in stange places.
d@21
It is not ugly..
I don’t even want to think about things popping out in strange places on a Republican.
Who are these people, that they can rise from their beds every day and look at themselves in the mirror knowing that they are undermining themselves and every other gay man and lesbian in this country? … How can they do it? Does the cognitive dissonance ever make their ears ring or, you know, give them migraines?
It’s Easy — They are Amoral Republicans. Nothing else matters, except there own appetites. There is no cognitive dissonance, there is no shame — those require a conscience and empathy, and these ghouls have neither.
TRex –
Some Republican Closeted Folks may be self-hating, but others truly believe that despite the homophobia around them in the GOP, they can cure the bigots from the inside. Of course, that generally works well as the basis for any good longterm relationship. . .
“Yes, I’ve heard he’s a player, but I can change him.”
“Yes, I know she does drugs, but I can change her.”
“Yes, I know he’s beaten previous partners in fits of rage, but I can change him.”
“Yes, I know she’s a work-a-holic, but I can change her.”
And what do we hear coming out of Uncle Tom’s Closet? “Yes, I know they’re homophobic as hell, but I can change them.”
Yeah, that’ll work.
Larry @ 23,
Then it’s not Repug!
LJ/Aquaria @ 24,
It’d be ugly!
Steve Gilliard has a post, with a list of the GOP perverts and moral degenerates. The Bush Family is in the pole position . . .
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……de-of.html
While in NV someone should look Leola McConnell up and check all those dominix stories up…of KGB.
These people are the self-loathing spiritual descendants of those lost souls, Ronnie Reagan’s gay mafia, who so enjoyed the liberation provided by the 1970s, and then went home in the mid-eighties to die of “liver cancer,” because Ronnie and Nancy couldn’t bear to hear the A-word.
I’m really hoping that future generations will look upon this day as we do now the day George Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door or Lester Maddox picked up his ax-handle at his chicken restaurant: the last flourish of a view that some people are less than. When I think of the debates of our founders — and the horrific compromise they made — about discrimination, I wonder how we can imagine codifying hate into our Constitution.
And to sully OUR month, June, with this crap really pisses me off — think of the children, wondering somewhere in Nebraska whether they are second-class citizens, as Harvey Milk used to say. Come out, come out, wherever you are.
I googled Karl’s wife Darby Rove, and discovered
and
I know that doesn’t make him not gay, but really, I do need pictures. Or not, I really, really don’t ever want to see Karl Rove’s ass.
Well, interesting. While I’m long on record as admitting that I’m just not quite as “tuned in” to gay stuff as many around here…I continue to believe that the gay folks ought to be left alone.
In your article, I think you talk about some examples of gay folks being in the WH. Frankly, I didn’t find this Padraig guy (girl?) to be too persuasive. Who is this person? I’m not being critical of you, Mr. Trex, but this particular source doesn’t move me.
Now, here’s what I found most interesting:
“Once when I was a very young gay man, I was told by a certain Old Queen to give up on my notions of finding a loving partner and settling down into a real relationship. “Men cannot truly fall in love with each other,” he told me, “We’re incapable of monogamous relationships. So, enjoy the sex, enjoy your friends, but don’t expect to find a relationship like your parents have. It doesn’t work that way for us.”
Fortunately, I saw this advice for exactly the steaming pile of horseshit that it was. “That may be true for you,” I said, “But it’s different now. My generation doesn’t have the psychic and spiritual wounds that yours does. You have internalized their hate and turned it on yourself.”
I had no idea that such philosophical discussions went on among gay folks. Somehow….somehow, I think this sort of knowledge needs to get communicated more often out to us hetero folks. It shows depth, and can help a hetero try to place much of the struggles of gay folks in a better context. At least, it did for me. Thank you for the article.
Ghostman
Great article! But you left Florida homophobic congressloon and self-loather Mark Foley off your list of gay Republicans who are being whispered about and fingerpointed at. Or was that because you wanted to make it clear that in Foley’s case it is hardly whispers but screeching, screaming and shrieking?
As I’m sure you know, there’s a billion in one chance that the FEC and IRS will crackdown on some right-wing church for engaging in overtly political activities– like endorsing candidates and campaigning for them (the way Roman Catholic priests told women parishioners in California’s farming valleys that if they voted for Kerry they would go to Hell). So what right-wing churches do instead is print up those so-called “nonpartisan” information cards that list key issues and how particular legislators voted on them. Bush and Rove were told by their whacko allies in the Christian-fascist movement to give them this vote for their cards so they could rail against homosexuality from the pulpit and then hand out the cards showing that (most) Democrats and the equally disliked moderate Republicans (all
dozeneleven of them) had voted on Team Satan.Anyone wanna take bets on how Foley, Dreier and McCrery vote?
Ghostman-
I had no idea that such philosophical discussions went on among gay folks.
Did you mean to be really this insulting? Why would “gay folks” not have exactly the same sorts of philosophical (and intellectual and etc.) conversations that everyone else has, save the sociopaths in our society (GWB, to name one)?
Jeebus, who ISN’T gay?
ditto, VG!
angie- to which VG comment?
34, valley girl, I neither meant to, nor was I so insulting. A problem with the gay community is that they are VERY quick to jump on someone, rather than listening to what they have to say, and reacting in an adult manner.
Ghostman
Did Ghostman just go Colbert on us?
Ghostman, you may not be gay, but you have once again revealed yourself to be a s-poofter. Ya gotta do something about that fake earnestness, man, it’s a dead giveaway.
VG– I just arrived again and was responding to your 8:58 comment.
Ghostman- I am not part of the “gay community” as you put it, but I was stunned by your apparent naivete.
angie, got it. I had a longer comment up thread.
42 VG, “apparent” being the operative word. Guy’s a spoof troll.
That is blatant BS, imho, Ghostman @ 9:01. Rather it’s some heteros that do just that.
op99- yes I used “apparent” with due consideration.
That Leola McConnell/Victor Ashe story is positively juicy. Where’s the press when it’s a Bush? The NYT puts a story questioning the Clinton’s marriage on the front page, above the fold. But no one will ask Ken Mehlmean about his sexuality.
Easy, kids. Let’s not jump on Ghostman. I hear his point, however awkwardly it may be worded. The popular media, however well-intentioned it may be, does have a tendency to imply that all gay people care about is fashion, sex, scandal, sex, and decorating. Here, as with Christians, it is an example of the vocal minority hijaking public perception of the whole.
My shift is over. I am going to get some groceries, then I’ll check back in. Thanks for reading, Firedogs!!
sigh….everyone, sometimes I think too many of you live in too much of a cocoon. You see, there’s LOTS AND LOTS of hetero’s that have little knowledge of the struggles and so forth of gays. They don’t mix or mingle with gays. But…they’re good people!
Now, you can either jump on these folks when they reveal that they don’t know as much about “being gay” as you want them to…OR, you can use your time to educate. Up to you.
I COMPLIMENTED Mr. Trex for sharing an insight into the gay world that I was not aware of. More of this insight should be shared.
And, more of you should leave your cocoon and REACH OUT to folks that don’t know much about the gay world, rather than belittling them. Just a hint…just a thought.
Ghostman
TRex, in da house! happy (late) birthday…
Googlr Victor Ashe and tell me that’s not some great dirt.
oops, google
Ah, you het folks wouldn’t believe what we talk about.
We can be very blunt, very deep and very shallow. All within the span of one sentence.
The kind of bitter old queen TRex talks about is a common archetype in the community. It is a generational thing, to some extent, but I see signs of some relative young’ns on track for such a position, mostly because they are, for whatever reason too damaged or too afraid to establish genuine intimacy, and they need to justify being alone.
By and large, my generation (I’m 40) has had to learn to create and develop models of sustainable intimacy without the encouragement or understanding of our own families. Moreover, the AIDS plague robbed us of almost a generation’s worth of wisdom in living, a whole slew of potential role models able to carve out successful lives in coupledom.
I fully support, actually, the choice of any couple, gay or straight, to open up a relationship in some form or other sexually, if that’s what’s right for them. In my relationship, we’ve decided not to do that, feeling that we get a payoff in personal intimacy by remaining in a closed, monogamous relationship. But the notion that male couples can not succeed in an exclusive relatrionship is nonsense.
The need for people like me to learn how best to live lives of authenticity through trial and error has, I think, given us an advantage over those who accept models of living merely handed to them. I’ve heard many people comment on seeing same sex couples who inspire with the quality of their apparent union, however unrecognized in law.
Paradoxically, when someday there is a generation of gay folks for whom the default marriage path may be common, it may be harder for them to develop the kind of hard earned lives of authenticity leading to intimacy that some in my generation have discvered. I don’t expect, however, to live to see that day in America, if it ever comes
P.S. Let’s imagine being a part of a group that is villified by the (im) moral majority–
don’cha think it would s*ck? Walk a mile in somebody else’s shoes. Oh wait, we are, to a much lesser extent than GLBT’s, muslims, etc.
Except, what was up with all those black and hispanic and other minority church leaders crowing about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman today???
Nobody should eschew or violently yank away any equal human rights for anybody in THIS country, dammit.
No TRex, Ghostman was an obvious spoof the first time he showed up here, then scaled it back when he was called on it. Now he’s back at it again. It is impossible to hang with progressives and be that fucking stupid about GLBT issues.
I had no idea that such philosophical discussions went on among gay folks. Somehow%u2026.somehow, I think this sort of knowledge needs to get communicated more often out to us hetero folks. It shows depth, and can help a hetero try to place much of the struggles of gay folks in a better context. At least, it did for me. Thank you for the article.
Ghostman
———————————————————-
These conversations happen all the time. Another variant is the “Gay men can’t be monogamous” speech. So-called “open relationships” are much more common in the gay world than in the straight world, and a lot of young gay people don’t realize that there are long-term, functional, monogamous gay relationships out there. One of the most interesting things I’ve read about gay marriages in Massachusetts is that several couples have said that they were in open relationships prior to the marriage but became exclusively monogamous when they were finally able to take the plunge and get married. I think this potential impact on the gay community has been greatly underappreciated by the media.
Intermission
This will make you feel good. YouTube clip of the evolution of dance.
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..video.html
I took no offense at Ghostman’s comment at all. There’s a lot of misinformation out there about us, and not everyone has the benefit of knowing out, evolved gay or lesbian adults from whom to learn directly.
Could it have been one of the gay-aware people at the WH that pulled Bush’s gay bash from the Rose Garden to a more obscure location? I hadn’t made the connection to AIDS Awareness Day, but once TeddySF pointed it out earlier it struck me as awfully cruel, even for this gang. Or at least awfully obviously cruel, especially considering that at this point they’re playing to about .2 percent of voters.
Mark Foley was the political bag man for the 2000 Stolen Election in Florida. In 1998, he secretly inserted the language that put the illegal false felon list voter purge in motion; in 2000, he bragged to Clint Curtis about the multiple ways they were going to steal the election. Clint had been hired to write code to hack the electronic voting machines.
Howie Klein — towards the end of yesterday’s book club, I had an idea about using MySpace to promote voter registration among the young. Ideally, making it the cool thing to do all on it’s own — but for now, using iTunes credits and CD give aways for those who register and register their friends.
Is this something you can support?
awesome. riveting. infuriating. TREX, you spoke the truth. it’s time to flush this smelly old turd of bigotry & hypocrisy. why won’t all the haters just dissappear? and why are they afforded media attention?
and not everyone has the benefit of knowing out, evolved gay or lesbian adults from whom to learn directly.
Seeing as he’s a regular spoofer on this blog, he’s had every opportunity to learn.
Some good news on the gay front – after living in the Bay Area for the past 25 years, I recently moved to Colorado Springs, and suddenly, it ain’t the hotbed of Christian right-wing nutjobs I was led to believe it was. I joined the recently formed Colorado Springs Gay Men’s chorus, and this group of guys is turning the community on it’s ear … literally. I guess the message is – there’s hope even in the darkest of places.
Pachacutec says
June 5th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
I took no offense at Ghostman’s comment at all. There’s a lot of misinformation out there about us, and not everyone has the benefit of kowing out, evolved gay or lesbian adults from whom to learn directly.
———————————————————-
Ditto. Cut him some slack. It was a sincere comment, and I don’t think it was at all “awkwardly worded”. I didn’t find it offensive or condescending, either. Heterosexuals are taught from birth to aspire to marriage. Gays aren’t taught by society to aspire to any sort of ideal relationship. TRex’s story is all too common in the gay world, but I’m not at all surprised that Ghostman had never heard of it before.
Well, Robert, I hope so sincerely!
54, Mr. Pach, and 56, Mr. Probst: you 2 have shown more indepth ideas, and conveyed more knowledge of all this than I’ve ever come across in about 20 years. THIS is the sort of thing that needs to get communicated out, more and more often, to “the world”…ummm, meaning the hetero folks.
You see, there’s lots and lots of folks like me (um, lots would mean MILLIONS), that are hetero, and really don’t run around with gay folks. That’s NOT a slam…just the way it is. And so, as Mr. TRex intimated above, LOTS of misconceptions, or GAPS exist within the hetero folks as to knowledge. Now, you can damn people like me who aren’t as aware….OR, like TRex, Pach, and Probst have done, start filling in the gaps.
Oh, and op99: just can it.
Ghostman
Pachacutec 9:12 pm well said :)
The sad thing is, marriage is under attack. It’s under attack from stagnating wages, from constant uncertainty about whether one will have a job tomorrow, or whether one’s family will have healthcare, from disappearing pensions, from back-to-back deployments, and more. From conservative “values” that push people into marriage too young because it’s the only way they’re allowed to experience sex, and they end up married before they find out they don’t want to send their lives together. These are the forces that break up marriages. Just not gay marriage.
Folks, I don’t know Ghostman from Adam’s housecat. It’s possible he’s a troll, but could be he is ignorant of things gay.
I profess to being that way at one time,too. How many gays do think were out in my 1960’s and 70’s rural, churchified South?
I never really considered the gay community, or even knew a gay, until I was well into adulthood.
Fortunately, what kept me from being a bigot was the Good Book and dad. The Good Book says we’re all God’s children – it does not except gays. It also says we’re fallen creatures in need of grace – including hetro’s. And especially Pharisees like Falwell and Robertson.
Dad was very private. He insisted on his personal privacy and accorded everybody else theirs. He was definitely against the government meddling in folks’ lives.I roll the same way.
In later years I had the opportunity to work with some gay guys. The conversations started out awkward, but it smoothed out. A great learning experience for me. Really good guys, and I respect them greatly. The cultural norms stand against them, and still they dare to be themselves.
What could be more American?
One more thing about educating hets:
I admit, I sometimes grow weary of it, to the point that it pisses me off. I think all minorities get annoyed with the burden of educating the majority at times. Some white folks really do have embarrassing, offensive ideas in their heads, transferred to them by family, and they ask sometimes well meaning questions that can nevertheless be offensive. Gay folks experience the same thing.
It’s still incumbent on us sometimes to let those who might otherwise be curious and disposed to learn from us ask the taboo questions they would like to ask but feel ashamed to ask or don’t know how to ask. I never assume that because one is liberal or a Dem that they are not homophobic on some level. Quite the contrary, I find some levels of homophobia to be more common than not, and find the homophobia of the left can be more insidious than the open bigotry we encounter from the right. Malcolm X felt the same way.
ck (#61)- Sounds like a GREAT idea. Not only can I support it, but maybe I can even help you a little with it. Tell me what you’re doing at downwithtyranny at aol dot com.
h/t to Ghostman, both in #32 and #50.
I have similar conversations w. liberals here in Tulsa, OK (see #50), not specifically about ‘the gay world’ but about all kinds of stuff…about needing to reach out, be open, and not being so quick to condemn, but try to listen to the whole idea.
Most people need to be given the benefit of the doubt (see: Francine Busby and how that’s NOT going to happen), and hey, if it turns out that they really DO suck, by letting them go on, you’ve given them enough rope to hang themselves.
I think we’re all so wound up we can cross the line into being self-righteous.
Maybe I’m doing it now…
since i was epu’d below…
i’ve been wondering, for a while, about something that could surely change the “structure” or nature of unions. what if a union could come together, of human beings. the human beings whose very life depends on the survival of particular conditions on earth. a union who recognized, that without it’s worthy efforts, the nasty corporate organisms glopping themselves all over the delicate and irreplaceble resources of our planet, would be nothing?
Pach – was Tony trying to tell us something at the presser today?
“MR. SNOW: I’m not going to characterize — I don’t think it’s passive. Again, the President has made clear what his views are. But this is one where — I’m trying to figure out exactly how one decides when one is active and one is passive.”
Nirvana – All Apologies
What else should I be
All apologies
What else should I say
Everyone is gay
What else could I write
I dont have the right
What else should I be
All apologies
In the sun
In the sun I feed as one
In the sun
In the sun
Im married
Buried
I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything is my fault
Ill take all the blame
Aqua seafoam shame
Sunburn with freezerburn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy
All in all we all are
Ghostman– Now that you know this, perhaps you can get out there and find some peeps and talk to them in person. I appreciate the fact that I learn a lot on-line, but there is no other way to really know people than to talk to them, meet them eye to eye, respect them despite their differences as any religion would teach. All I can tell you is, they are US– people with all the wishes and hopes and feelings that everyone has. People who want to live their lives with liberty– to take care of one another, live a dream, contribute and not feel vulnerable to an ugly ’society’ at every turn.
rusty: ah, the age old power bottom dilemma. . .
G’nite firedogs. Nite Spoofman.
nite op99! Sweet dreams.
I should crash, too.
Have a yabba dabba doo time. A dabba doo time. Have a gay old time.
I want to go on record as agreeing with the others that this is a great post.
I may be an old fart hetero, but I worked in Hollywood and my wife was an amateur dancer, so I/we (including the years before I knew my wife) have had many long years of friendships with people who happen to be gay.
Even in college in the ‘50-60’s, there was always something suspicious about YR’s: secretive behavior, hand-wringing glee at such illicit actions as stealing elections, behind-the-back deals. Closeting one’s sexual preferences would fit well into this kind of behavior pattern.
In the same way as white Southerners defend the indefensible Confederacy, these former YR’s defend a way of life that is discriminatory and, from the point of view of believers in the Bill of Rights, also indefensible.
To change the subject slightly, how can the Roves, Mehlmans, Robertses, etc., maintain the Teflon coating? Why are the right wing so willing to forgive the little pecadillos (and my guess is that KR suffers a great deal as a result of his little pecadillo) of their appointed leaders/saints and yet so eager to hurl abuse at the “other?” Can it be a matter of externalizing the “Sin Within?”
It would be really funny if…GWB were gay. So much overcompensation in one guy, a marriage of convenience, intensely close relationship with his mother, distant father. Exercise freak. Member of an exclusive fraternity that employs spanking, nudity, and masturbation in initiation rites. Male cheerleader in college.
Nah. Couldn’t be.
TRex, if I were a gay man instead of a lesbian, and if I were anywhere near Georgia, I would sooooooo be trying to get a date with you. Brains and a way with words, sigh….
The reason why he cannot define a civil right is because they are hellbent on getting rid of them. Why define something that will no longer exist?
how can everybody be going to bed at 9:44 pst?
It seems to me that an important distinction to be made is between civil marriage and religious marriage. Plenty of men and women are legally married who do things behind closed doors that would stop the average baptist dead in their tracks. Not only that, they in no way see their marriage as bound by or adherent to the dictates of any religion. What about them?
Next it will be the man-woman-marriage-with-a-bible-missionary-position-in -the-dark-real-quiet-no-need-for-female-pleasure-must-risk-pregnancy- because-life-is-sacred-at-least-until-18-then-it’s-$5.15-an-hour-from-then-on-out constitutional amendment…
amen, knuckledragger!
Well, I still have a good sense of humor. And, 86 just cracked me up:
“Plenty of men and women are legally married who do things behind closed doors that would stop the average baptist dead in their tracks.”
THAT is classic.
Ghostman
Thanks, Howie –
I’ll send details tomorrow; I’m running low on energy tonight.
I’m 27, and I think any marriage-gay or striaght-is the dumbest thing in the world
Matt O. @ 9:44 pm (#85) – Why talk about faster-than-light space travel? Because someone might invent it one day and you wouldn’t have a plan.
Ghostman- you should consider the direct contact as angie suggested. I will wager all my fdl chips, it’s time well spent. Sounds long overdue. Oh and please return that Colbert badge. *g*
Totally OT, but a treat, nonetheless…
Windows is Shutting Down by Clive James
Clive James
Saturday April 30, 2005
The Guardian
Windows is shutting down, and grammar are
On their last leg. So what am we to do?
A letter of complaint go just so far,
Proving the only one in step are you.
Better, perhaps, to simply let it goes.
A sentence have to be screwed pretty bad
Before they gets to where you doesnt knows
The meaning what it must of meant to had.
The meteor have hit. Extinction spread,
But evolution do not stop for that.
A mutant languages rise from the dead
And all them rules is suddenly old hat.
Too bad for we, us what has had so long
The best seat from the only game in town.
But there it am, and whom can say its wrong?
Those are the break. Windows is shutting down.
Ghostman is always a gentleman and engages in real dialogue, asking questions and responding thoughtfully. He has never been disrespectful before and he’s not now,IMO. Just a bit out of the loop.
Trex, you truly rock. G’night.
can’t wait til the moral majority starts legislating against beating your wife/husband after drinking your children’s school/shoe money away in the local bar and then sleeping with someone else and then beating your neighbor cause they got the girl you want and then lying about it all. then you go out and kill someone out of rage and curse your maker and your parents on a Sunday while worshiping American Idol’s newest winner. then you can’t build your new fence over your neighbor’s land line to fit your fine motorboat into the backyard (even though you want to, reeeeeeeel bad), ’cause you are still in denial that your preznit lied about someone else to get their land. (Iraq and Afghanistan)
I think that covers all 10 Commandments. The SCOTUS is gonna have one long field day!
Windows is Shutting Down
Thanks, an amen. These from the folk who give we officious idiot grammar checker, no lest.
93, eureka: sssshhhh! You shouldn’t talk with me….why, I’m a troll! a spoof! (whatever a spoof is)….ok, ok, I’m being waaaay too sarcastic.
As to angie…and HERE WE GO AGAIN (sigh)…but she used the word “peeps”. Now, what in the devil is a “peeps”? People? That’s how I interpreted it. So, angie suggests I talk to people…meaning my hetero friends? Well, ok, but working such chit-chat into our usual conversations (football, baseball, broads) could be a bit tricky. But I’ll certainly try.
Truthfully, I think the gay folks could also do a better job of getting their message out. Such as the things which Pach, Probst, and TRex talked about. With ignorance….well, as we all know, that can be the breeding ground for fear, and hate.
With knowledge, can come TONS of understanding and acceptance, which therefore leads to political gains.
So, while I sip my whiskey straight up, and me and the boys talk about that blonde “over there”, I’ll try to work in some talk on gay issues/understandings. I’ll pitch in…and I think the gay community, as well-intentioned as they are, can also do better in crafting their message.
OH! As to Colbert….I think that guy is brilliant. I’ll never have his gift. My comments above were never intended to be “Colbert-ish”…I just don’t have his skill level at what he does.
Ghostman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spoof or spoofing can refer to:
* Parody by imitation
* Forgery of goods or documents
* Spoofing attack, a computer security term
* Referer spoofing, a type of spoofing attack
* Protocol spoofing, a technique to increase performance in data communications
* Spoof (game), a guessing game
Ghostman…
I think if you do as angie recommends, you will learn that you’ve known a LOT of gay people, and didn’t realize it. It’s not like every gay person swishes up to you, flops his wrist, and lisps, “I’m thooooo Gay!” when he or she meets you. Why would they? It’s like a het walking up and proudly proclaiming, in some ridiculous Superman pose, “I’m a heterosexual!” How ridiculous is that?
Very similar to a Hispanic friend of mine who had blonde hair and blue eyes. Then, when she took her new boyfriend home to meet her family, who had the more traditional coloring, he sputtered, “But-but-but you didn’t tell me you were a spic!”
Well, gee, he didn’t walk up to her and say, “I’m a Franco-Germano-Anglo Caucasian!” either. Why? Because he, like most Caucasians, simply assumed that people will know what he is, or, better yet, not care what race he is. Why would she be any different on the latter score? Why not have someone accept you for yourself, for reasons other than race or orientation? You know, like because you’re intelligent or funny or kind?
95, mommybrain….you’ve probably gone to bed. If you later read this…I AM chuckling! (I truly can laugh at my own self!)….so, your message seems to say that I’m a good guy, just a dumbshit! And now, I REALLY am chuckling. But anyways, tis the thought that counts! And thank you.
99, eureka: ok…I guess that op person must mean I’m a fake or something. I’ll just roll my eyes, and withhold comment. Chuckle.
Ghostman
100, LJ: well, I highly highly doubt that I’ll make any discoveries that within my circle there are gay guys. HOWEVER, the other point you make in your first paragraph is very important. Many of my straight buddies DO have images of gay guys as you’ve described….breaking thru that myth is important.
Ghostman
notjonathon at 8:40, “how can the Roves, Mehlmans, Robertses, etc., maintain the Teflon coating? Why are the right wing so willing to forgive the little pecadillos….” [of their leaders]?
Because they’re closeted. If they come out, they’d be shunned. As long as they feel shame, they’re members of the good ol’ boys club.
If that is really how they think, I can only shake my head.
It’s all about preserving the comfort of the heterosexuals.
Oh I get the point now. Consider how difficult a time African Americans have trying to explain experience to others. Wish I could remember Mark Twains quote on travel and how the experience opens our mind. When you are ready, you may leave the boys table and venture out for answers. I was accused of being homosexual so early in life, I had to look it up secretly. Travel accross town amigo.
Ghostman, I appreciate you staying during this thread. I’ve learned a lot from reading these comments.
Ghostman– I treated you very well in the last thread and here, too. I take offense at your 10:14 “here we go again”. You have never tried to engage me since your disrespect toward Jane here:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments
Yeah. peeps are people. get out and about beyond talking about football, baseball, and broads with the accompanying whisky. you never know.
I hope you lose your sardonic attitude. You would be a lot more engaging. Since I am not a moderator or in the ‘know’, I will just ask you to let me know if you are kidding or jerking me around.
thanks suzanne. Hell, I’ve got my nose bloodied in better places!
I AM JOKING.
Ghostman
Ghostman:
The guy working in the cubicle next to you may be gay.
The woman who sits across from you at church may be a lesbian.
Your doctor may be homosexual. Your lawyer. Your mail carrier. Your favorite teacher in jr. high. The jock of your high school that everyone thought was such a butch ladies’ man. The rancher who owns the place down a spell from you who has a wife and four kids and shocks so many people when he comes out. I didn’t need Brokeback Mountain for that last scenario; I knew such a person.
They’ve been around you all along. That is my point. The problem is that too many heteros walk around with blinders to that. It is not the fault of gay people that such happens.
Ghostman, if you take one thing away from this discussion, please let it be this: There are as many different kinds of gay people as there are straight people. It is literally the ONLY thing that we all have in common. There is no way that you have walked this earth and not known a gay person. They just never told you whether they loved other men or other women.
And this is one of the big reasons that the Republicans are about to lose this issue, too. Because people are becoming aware that they already know us. You work with us. You eat with us. Frist and the others are trying to make us into the new terrorists (I’ve heard Fox News is going to start running a color coded Gayness Threat Level Alert in their crawler.) (Today was Shell Pink for Elevated Threat of Gayness.) and raising hell about how The Gays Are Coming! The Gays Are Coming!
We’re already here. We’ve always been here. It’s just that now the rest of you are finding out who we are.
106, angie: good lord. The “here we go again” was directed at the fact that I had been asking questions above, and indicating my own ignorance of things…and from many, I got chastised!
It was NOT directed at YOU. Not at all. If I mislead you on that, apologies. It was unintentional.
“I’ve never tried to engage you”….? On what? I truly am flabbergasted. I make comments on all sorts of subjects raised here. I just don’t know what you mean.
Anyways, I think I’ve now answered the question you raised in your last sentence.
Ghostman
Ghostman –
I think Peeps is slang for best friends — as in, best buds extended family type best friends.
LJ/A
I agree with the majority of what you say. Where I disagree is that I think ALL subcultures have blinders on to a certain degree. When I was with my local police force (24 years), I lived in the police subculture, which tends to be very good guy/bad guy oriented (duh!). During part of that time, I was married to an evangelican born again Christian, who based his viewpoint on his version of the Bible and wore blinders to everyone who was not what he was. He was most comfortable around those of “his kind” so to speak. Just like the other cops I worked with.
I think this is true in most sub cultures. It is up to us as humans to take off those cultural blinders and see that we really are all the same, human beings.
angie- that was a great post-n-thread. What a quick month!
Wikipedia’s main definition of peeps is those marshmallow chick and bunny things that are sold around Easter time. But they also include this:
Note: “Peeps” is also fairly recent (mid-1990s onward) slang for “friends” (derived from the word “people”), as in “what’s up, my peeps?” Unlike the otherwise similar “bros”, the usage of “peeps” is rarely, if ever, singular, but has broadened slightly to encompass more general senses of “people” or “persons”, as in “there sure are a whole bunch of peeps in this joint.”
thank you for clearing that up, Ghostman.
TRex — I had no idea you were gay! What city are you in? Can I fix you up with my brother? He’s cute; (a male version of me!) I so want him to date a caring, thinking man. xxxooo
Ghostman, ditto what LJ/Aquaria says in 109. You may not know who they are, but you have known gay people in your life. If you live in a conservative area, you may know quite a few gays and lesbians who don’t feel safe letting anyone know their sexual orientation.
“Ghostman, if you take one thing away from this discussion, please let it be this: There are as many different kinds of gay people as there are straight people. It is literally the ONLY thing that we all have in common.”
That probably sums it all up very well. But, such knowledge is NOT out there in the mainstream. It should be.
Ghostman
I just finished watching John Fogerty on NH PBS– from last year in CA and he was 60 yrs old!!! Completely mind-boggling with his guitar and voice. Bought tickets for August 8th @ the beach. You have to see this on YouTube– he sings it and it is unreal. btw, his guitar is outta this world on the PBS special– he’s a contender for the best and his harmonica wails!
this may make you cry, too. tis the wars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..earch=deja vu all over again
shhhh….not a peep about this to anyone…..
how to sink this sacred oneman:onewoman amendment crap —
suggest to all that since marriage is so almighty sacred, any laws permitting divorce will go the way of the dodo bird, that once you’re yoked and harnessed THAT’S EFFIN’ IT! no more runaway spouses, if you catch my drift.
why should anything follow other than this natural disaster, OOPS! er, i meant conclusion? kind of a camel’s nose under the tent pretty well explaining the right wing fanaticos hopes and dreams and fevered delusions for the rest of us libertines and libidonous sinners.
at least that’s my plan — to launch that disinformation into the ether of the social slipstream. ’cause i know in my heart it’s probably true anyway — the no divorce thing, that is.
[on my 3rd marriage, and the previous 2 definitely were undermined by those gay fiends setting up homesteads and expecting RIGHTS, damn them.]
psst, pass it on — the no divorces thing, that is.
(Microsoft) “Windows” is singular. So the grammar is fine.
Not so sure about “Think Different” :)
Ah, a Late Nite Post is never truly seasoned until we’ve had a dash of punaise. Thanks for the birthday wishes, by the way. And same to ya!
Did you get what you wanted?
OT, and excuse the question, but I haven’t been able to go back through all the threads: how is Kobe doing? Is everything okay now?
whaleshaman– Leahy did just that today in his floor speech. He said should the feds legislate divorce or any of our behaviors? Let us look to ourselves and see the faults therein and work on those things, not something that divides us and deprives others of rights. paraphrased, natch!
If divorce is outlawed, then only outlaws will have divorces.
Think about it. The only alternative will be “till death do you part”. There should be a teriffic upswing in life insurance policies and subsequent payouts. Hmmmmm. Maybe we better build more jails too, just in case….
Just to clear up something….I think one or two out there think that I’ve never met a gay person. Well, wrong. I don’t live under a rock, although I’ve hid under a few! (chuckle…that makes sense only to me, sorry)
But, truthfully, I’ve never had much of an ongoing conversation with a gay. It’s sorta like…they got their thing going on, and I got my own thing going on. At Happy Hour…they’d go to the gay bar, and I’d peel off to the hetero bar.
Are there gays “out there” that I mingle with, but don’t know that they’re gay? Probably so. But I’ve always felt that gays can do various jobs just as good as heteros….so I just don’t understand why it’s pointed out that gays are out there that I’m not aware of.
In any event, if and when the time arises, I’ll try to raise the subjects brought out here amongst my buddies. We’ll see how it goes.
Ghostman
hey TRex, I had the best kind of b-day: low-key, with family. No complaints; and you?
Great post, of course, and fascinating discussion thread. I think Ghostman’s essentially being earnest here, with some valid questions and observations (certainly not the seemingly willful obtuseness of a gazillion threads ago). Some toes stepped on, probably inadvertently, to be sure.
Here in the Bay Area it’s easy to take tolerance and awareness of gays for granted. I have gay and lesbian clients and colleagues, we have some G/L friends, our kids go to school with other kids that have same sex parents, etc. Not mention all the others we pass alongside everyday, unaware.
Perhaps you can clear one thing up for me – is it OK to use “gay” to denote male and female homosexuals?
For what it’s worth, Ghostman – you seem to be willing to open up to some conversations that for whatever reason, you simply have never had in your life until now. That’s not a bad thing. It seems odd in this day and age to be honest, but it’s not bad. Hang in there.
Howie Klein #71 & CK #61 – Check out the FEC rules on “rewarding” voters prior to anything. In a couple of the 2004 voter registration drives around the country came under heat & inspection because of some “reward” such as a lunch or pizza reward. It came under buying votes.
But I think it is a great idea!
Ghostman– how did you feel about the gay men you met? Are you friends with them? Could you be friends with them?
Ever met a lesbian? Same follow up.
Mon dieu TRex – there simply are not adequate words to thank you for your brilliant and moving Uncle Tom’s Closet post.
The power and economy of your writing made me think of Thomas Paine. Followed by an “ah ha” what a splendid broadside for myself and other FDL readers to mail to our reps in Washington.
With a simple cut & paste of your post into a word program your economy of 1210 words properly titled and credited to you & FDL can be easily printed on a single page for instant mailing. Just say you approve and we can make it so. At least those of us who are stuck at home instead of Yearly Kos this week.
geez, angie, I hesitate to comment…but the way you phrased that sounds like we’re turning this into a Ghostman therapy session. Can we leave it at this?:
Ghostman, we await your report back someday on your ventures out (no pun intended!).
I’m losing it. Gonna hit the sack. Thanks for the very cool insights, everybody. Catch you all on another thread soon.
Always let your conscience be your guide. Nightie-night.
punaise, as usual, you give me peace, erm…..
XO
when i was in high school, in the early 70s in little rock i had a dear friend, an artist- i had a big crush on him. i only realized, slowly, that he was gay. it was a big disappointment, but i suppose that was the beginning of my knowing that human beings are very deep. it takes a lot of open mindedness to appreciate, really, who anybody is. well. that sounds so sappy.
OT – RFK Jr. responds to the Salon.com critique of his Stolen Election piece in Rolling Stone.
full “dog fetching the newspaper” disclosure: I haven’t read it yet
gave ya a real peace of my mind there, eh, angie? :~)
brkily? Hall or Central?
TRex great post. I went to nursing school in the “olden days” when Homosexuality was an approved Psych Diagnosis. My case study for my Psych rotation was on a gay young man who was admitted inpatient by his family to “cure the gay away”. We became great friends.
The one amazing phrase that the wingers throw out is that you choose to be gay. In my life I have known many gay people of either gender, everyone knew they were gay some as young as 3rd grade. Just like I always new that I was straight. You just know, it is not a choice.
That is the theory that the Gay Republicans live by, that “Gayness” is a choice so they are exercising that choice. That is the whole sillyness of it, and the sadness too.
well. i still can’t believe it’s going to be such an early night. it’s been a hell of a week and it’s only monday… right? monday?
bkrily– no it doesn’t. I was tall and awkward in all kinds of ways in high school and was asked to 2 proms at the last minute by my sweetest friends who were gay and not out yet; I hope they are happy and out and content now.
130, angie: gay fellas looked and acted different. It was quite obvious that they were gay. And no, I don’t mean they acted all….?queenish?…is that the word?…..but anyways, they acted different.
They didn’t give a damn about the Cowboys, or the World Series…or baseball or football in general. Oh, they were VERY peaceful souls…but they just had a whole different frame of reference. And, again, since you asked, and I am NOT trying to start anything…but their eyes were different. Hard to explain. But when I’d look in their eyes, the “look” was different than hetero eyes. Scientifically, that makes NO sense to me….but there you have it.
On gay women…well, the word, used generally in hate, and I do NOT mean it here…but the word “butchy” comes to mind. A few have told me that they were lesbian. I’d be very “politically correct” and nod my head, while thinking “duh! You stand out like a beacon!”
Have I ever formed friendships? No. Acquaintice-ships….yes. But becoming one of my buddies? No. There just wasn’t that much in common. The gay guys wanted to chase….guys! And me, I wanted to chase girls.
They weren’t interested in spending a Saturday afternoon, drinking beer, and watching college football. They weren’t interested in going hunting. And on and on.
So, there never has been much in common between me and gay guys…at least the ones I’ve met.
Hope I’ve answered your question.
Ghostman
central, 72.
dang it, yes, punaise! i hope with all of my heart to meet you one day, soon!
angie – so those were in-prom-two invitations?
ab-so-lu-ta-men-te!
well angie, likewise. at least for now we can share the experience of not attending YKos/FDL meet ‘n greet. grrrrr.
i will be trying to get to the fdl b’fast this weekend… anybody else? Eureka Springs, still here?
Punaise-
I had an excellent birthday as well. I went with the RexMama and my step dad and grandfather to the beach. My grandfather is 88 and has Alzheimer’s, but he likes to travel. Loves it. We got him some flip-flops and a straw hat and took him down to the beach, let him get his toes in the sand and water. He hadn’t been to the sea shore in probably 25 years.
I also witnessed the flowering of the radicalization of the RexMama. She still has my copy of “How Would a Patriot Act”.
Anne Holliday-
You may use my writing in any way that you see fit as long as proper attribution is made to FDL.
The power and economy of your writing made me think of Thomas Paine.
Madam, you flatter me! Besides, Glenn Greenwald is our Thomas Paine. “How Would a Patriot Act” is the “Common Sense” of our time.
punaise, we’ll just have to party just like we did when our folks went out of town.
Ghostman, for what it’s worth, I’m pretty sure there are plenty of gay 49er and Giants fans in SF! Raiders? not so much perhaps….
Me, kindergarten class ‘70 central high. My Aunt was a senior that year.
grrr right back atchoo, punaise! sorry, allergies and frustration combined. ;(
but, lookee here, I just checked and was published in the wapoo!
>>>>>>>>>>
New Hampshire: Thanks for taking my question, Mr. Kurtz.
I was struck by the interview on This Week with Al Gore. I found Mr. Gore to be very engaging and on message with regard to the crisis facing our planet. Not many in the MSM seem to care about the issue of Global Warming except to refute it, as the interviewer tried to. Instead, the media wants to know and guess whether Mr. Gore is running in 2008. Why won’t the MSM focus on the issue of Global Warming rather than the fact that Al Gore was in Cannes and may return to national politics?
Similarly, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s well sourced and chilling article in Rolling Stone re the theft of the 2004 election by the Republican party has yet to be covered by The Post. Why is that?
Howard Kurtz: Time just did a cover story on global warming, and the cover piece in last week’s Washington Post Magazine was about scientists who argue against global warming. So I don’t think it’s quite fair to say the media don’t care about the subject except in the context of Gore and the future White House ambitions that he consistently denies harboring.
I haven’t had a chance to read the RFK piece so I don’t know if it breaks any new ground that previous news stories on the Ohio vote have not. Obviously Kennedy writes from a point of view but that doesn’t mean his information is not valid.
>>>>>>>>
yay.
Ghostman
Guess what? I’m straight, and I don’t “give a damn about the Cowboys, or the World Series%u2026or baseball or football in general.” And I’m “not interested in going hunting.” I do, however, get interested in college basketball around the beginning of March. For what it’s worth. There are all kinds of people out there.
Trex, that’s a mighty fine b-day.
Suzanne – oh yeah. if those walls could talk…this is why, as parents of two teenagers, we don’t go out of town much!
151….yeah, I would imagine so. Since there’s such a large gay population in SF, there’s probably all sorts of gays, with all sorts of interests. But I’m down here in Texas….for better or for worse, it’s a whole different world!
Ghostman
MarcLord says:
June 5th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
It would be really funny if%u2026GWB were gay. So much overcompensation in one guy, a marriage of convenience, intensely close relationship with his mother, distant father. Exercise freak. Member of an exclusive fraternity that employs spanking, nudity, and masturbation in initiation rites. Male cheerleader in college.
Nah. Couldn’t be.
———————————————————-
No, it would be tragic. It would make “Hamlet” like like “Bambi” in comparison. And frankly, George W Bush is not the kind of role model that young gay people need.
brkily:
I plan to attend the FDL/Kos breakfast. Even though I’m not usually up that early.
punaise:
I spent 24 years responding to those kinda parties.
I figure what with Jane and all going to Vegas and leaving us here, unsupervised….
Ghostman says
June 5th, 2006 at 11:49 pm
151%u2026.yeah, I would imagine so. Since there’s such a large gay population in SF, there’s probably all sorts of gays, with all sorts of interests. But I’m down here in Texas%u2026.for better or for worse, it’s a whole different world!
Ghostman
———————————————————-
In so many ways. I live in Houston, and we have a gay line-dancing bar. Who’d’ve thunk it?
gezundheit, angie, and good for you at the WaPoo, notwithstanding his rather lame response.
Chuckling with Suzanne :}
birkly- no I won’t be in LV. you live there?
angie,
leahy? wow, i guess the campaign is working!
that was fast.
but not fast enough for iraqis: what an awful day for them, not just another tricky day but chaos and bloodlust.
how about another campaign — for americans to apologize for what is wrought; it’s either that or wait for cable news bringing us their version of truth and reconciliation commissions.
like lemmings we’re already over the cliff, i’m afraid.
What’s up with all the %u2026 crap in the comments?
virtual partayyyyyy!
(damn, this isn’t working, is it?)
punaise
As Scotty McClellan might put it if he were still with us, it sounds like Kurtz is playing the “lame game.”
neurophius 11:54- I get it all of time on safari and firefox.
160, Mr. Probst….yeah, H-town has a “gay area” just like Dallas. Most gay folks live in that area…always exceptions, I know, I know.
That may be part of the problem, at least here in Dallas. Gays prefer to live in one area…and alot of that is so that they won’t get hassled by rednecks. If I was gay, I’d probably do the same thing. The “problem” meaning that there’s not too much casual, social interaction.
Ghostman
neurophius
What’s up with all the %u2026 crap in the comments?
cut and pasted apostrophes and hyphens taking on a life of their own, being true to themselves, coming out of the punctuation closet so to speak.
either that, or there’s some techie reason.
Ghostman—here’s an idea…just once, check out the happy hour in one of those gay bars you talked about earlier.
In my experience (as a middle aged straight guy), the drinks are stiffer, the TV’s tuned to the same sports channel that you and your buddies probably watch, and the conversation isn’t significantly different…except that there’s more interest in the hunky quarterback than the buxom cheerleaders.
Oh…and just so you know…they’ll know from your eyes that you’re straight.
thanks, punaise– I keep trying and hiccups and sneezes, nonwithstanding, I will:
Marchons, marchons,
Qu’un sang impur
abreuve nos sillons.
neuro
As Scotty McClellan might put it if he were still with us
say, wasn’t he spotted at that bar Frank Probst menetioned?
aux armes, netizens!
punaise
I wish the outed punctuation would stay on that other side of town, and not show up in my comments. Kind of how George W. Bush feels about certain kinds of people…
brkily said,
it takes a lot of open mindedness to appreciate, really, who anybody is. well. that sounds so sappy.
Does not!
Gays bars are the best. Texas bars, of any style, well that is another story.
Well, RBG, I might pass on that. I’ve got a couple of bartenders at my watering hole that take quite good care of me. (chuckle)
But if some gay guy wants to drop by and talk some sports with me, he’s always welcome!
Ghostman
neurophius
yeah, the nerve of those Marks.
whaleshaman: We must admit we were wrong, apologize, impeach the preznit, join the world court and indict for war crimes…
everybody I speak to says I am a nut– they say, I know we were crazy to do this, but how do we get out?
I say admit defeat and the wrongs we have done and engage without malice. We need to join the world community as a humble partner. I know it’s scary, but that it what I feel. Apologies. Reparations. Humility. Diplomacy. Humanity. I want my country back.
Punaise
Karl? Or Harpo?
Had a friend I was a’visiting in Lawton, OK who took me to the local watering hole. She proudly pointed out the collection of bras behind the counter and which one was hers. Gotta admit the barkeep kept the tequilla flowing freely.
angie:
I agree with you, absolutely. You are definitely not a nut.
Well.
Ghostman– as long as you stay in your comfortable environs with your friends that only talk sports and broads, who is going to visit you other than you own inner circle? chuckle.
Gays prefer to live in one area%u2026
No, Ghostman, we really don’t. We call those areas “gay ghettoes” because they’re like, well, any other ghettoes. That’s like saying the Jews in Berlin liked to live in ghettoes because it was easier than dealing with redneck Germans in the other parts of town.
TRex 151
Madam, you flatter me!
(hey everybody – TRex is playing all modest and stuff, but you just know he’s gunning for another front page mention at the Daou Report)
…and it will be well-deserved :~)
I gotta pack it in – ‘night folks.
I lost a bra on Halloween in the Castro SF. I was Rita Hayworth for awhile. *g*
Here’s my take on what this all says about Bush’s character, and where it’ll end up thanks to his support:
Nettertainment:Coward
Come on G-man…get out and live a little. You’ll have a good story to take back to your favorite bartender plus women are attracted to guys who like to meet new people and try new places.
your, rather than you, inner circle–
mine at 12:09
neurophius says angie: I agree with you, absolutely. You are definitely not a nut.
i’m thinking you say that because you’re a nut too.
in which case, there’re 3 nuts here tonight.
that’s it for me, g’night all.
starting up conversations with people you don’t know- wherever you find yourself- is the best. it makes your world soooo much bigger. then you see how different, and the same, we all are.
and for the latest disgrace; here you go and check out the picture:
>>>>>>>>>>
HANOI (AFP) – The United States won’t compensate Vietnam’s Agent Orange victims but will offer advice on dealing with the wartime defoliant, a US official said, during a visit by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
When Rumsfeld met Defence Minister Pham Van Tra and military officials, the Vietnamese side had raised the issue of dioxin exposure and contamination from Agent Orange, the senior official said on the sidelines of the visit.
“What we can do is make scientific information available, historical archival information we might have, … technical advice on how to deal with the situation,” the official said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usvietnamrumsfeld
it’s going to take the united states several generations to recover from this nasty bushwhacked freako episode. it will be our own dark ages. and it may still get worse before it gets better.
From link @ mdnetter says 12:16 am
Never before in U.S. history has a President supported a Constitutional Amendment to actually limit rather than enlarge the Civil Rights of a minority group of citizens. snip
That about says it all…
rbg, 191, thanks for the advice, but I get out and about just fine. No problem meeting the ladies either.
Ghostman
i was in eureka several times. its a pretty cool place. i loved how the “old-timers” mixed it up with the left over flower children. in most cases it seemed like they appreciated each other.
I like to challange my lefty values as much as possible. Even in a 10k white beaded, full length, Bob Mackey gown. That Ghostman, is why this straight man can and will tease your sensibilities. *g*
g-man, keep on truckin’. we’ll all get there someday. the important thing is the journey…
From Tue’s WaPoo Eugene Robinson column entitled “Distracter In Chief:
“The Decider’s decision to whip up a phony crisis over same-sex marriage — Values under attack! Run for your lives! — is such a transparent ploy that even conservatives are scratching their heads, wondering if this is the best Karl Rove could come up with. Bush might as well open his next presidential address by giving himself a new title: The Distracter.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..nsandblogs
birkly- yep, I circled the world a few times, and found this little switzerland to be among the best.
Glad to hear it, G-man.
Long day tomorrow. Good night, all.
bkrily @ 1232– yes, it will be painful and I pray that we stop them in November 2006, but I never count on them! WE can do it! This is the only way we can make the American Dream come true. Otherwise, we are another Empire, self- desroyed by hubris with much blood on our hands.
It is a painful and wonderful opportunity; I welcome it more than I dread it, if honest folks can prevail.
eureka, where the heck are you wearing a gown like that! my friend’s daughter, in eureka, said said she and her friends used to go to thrift shops, get dressed up in old prom dress and go bowling. kids in the city (i’m in LA w/ 3 teenagers)are not developing their imaginations sufficiently, i’m afraid.
Well Sports Fans (ok, that was sarcastic)….time to go. Enjoyed the conversation….most of it, anyways!
Ghostman
Oh I lived in San Francisco and for awhile owned a vintage clothing store in the Haight. Every straight man, imho, should do drag once in a lifetime.
nighters- ghostman sleep well and travel a little.
angie, i get so depressed sometimes. mostly i am optimistic. that’s completely my nature, but i just never dreamed that the people who rose/drifted/floated -were !elected! to the top of our governing hierarchy could be so f’ing evil.
Hey TRex — too bad nobody had anything to say about your post.
Geesh.
If your head isn’t swelling yet, yer a better man than me.
Oh, I’m up way too late. Gonna pay for it tomorrow. G’night, all.
jane, i think we totally were inspired by Trex’s post. it was just happening on the micro/personal level.
you were being sarcastic? i’m such a spaz at this. but i don’t know what i would do without fdl to come to.
2004 really got to me. I bought a house in the woods and pretty much stayed out of circulation until a couple of months ago. Whats next? Something political for sure. It’s time.
eureka, if you’d email me, i’d like to find out if you know a couple people i know there… berkeleystewart at hotmail etc. if you feel like it.
Trex – indeed, Greenwood has the Thom Paine spirit – as I learned over the past two Sundays here at FDL – and eagerly awaiting my copy of his book to arrive.
I still think your post was Paine-esque in spirit and deed but since its your birthday I won’t quibble with your modesty on this special day.
Hope you’ll send me your mailing address – info at stowitts dot net – for I do so want to send you a little book I feel certain you’ll enjoy and appreciate…like you, the author was too modest to accept my enthusiam for his writing gift (H.L. Mencken-esque if I recall). He called me me Squirt instead of Madam but you both are endearing to this old newspaper brat.
brkily- will do. Will be from acoolway
brkily- you have mail
My take on the religious (sic) wrong’s approach to issues of sexuality in general is that their underlying motivation is to keep children ignorant about sexuality so that their supply of sexual abuse victims will continue unabated!!!!!
Gay writer Johann Hari has written about a link between the lunar right and some gay’s. Search on J.Hari gay fascism or…
http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.
php?id=407
If this is all true then there is probably a similar article to be written about left fascist queers. ‘Left’ meaning authoritarian or Marxist-Leninist ‘ socialist’s’ NOT democratic and libertarian genuine socialist’s.
These radical fascist minorities can exert undue influence as we know from the neo-con debacle.
RILL sorry I wasn’t around last night for this, but props to all. P’raps you’ll enjoy this li’l ditty from Blighty:
Gay means rubbish, says BBC
THE word “gay” now means “rubbish” in modern playground-speak and need not be offensive to homosexuals, the BBC Board of Governors has ruled. …
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/a…..70,00.html
Or how ’bout this (OT) one from Chicago?
Obama: Mocks Stephen Colbert! Read outrageous letter here.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/swee…..etter.html
I’m sorry I was sleeping during all this good-natured bandinage…
Apropos Ghostman in Dallas thinking that particular town is too straight. As I recall, the largest gay church in the entire country is in that city. Designed by Philip Johnson (famous and gay architect) !
Good morning-
TRexx-beautiful post, thanks. With this line, ‘The whole notion of changing diapers, balancing checkbooks, buying a house, keeping a family clothed, educated, and nourished? Anathema to the Gay Republican’, you hit the nail on the head. Speaking as a (mostly) happily married man, marriage is not some pie in the sky, fairy tale, live happily ever after state of hetero perfection the “traditional” family values crowd portrays it as.
A marriage is hard fucking work that sometimes sucks but also has the most sublime payoffs anyone could ever imagine. So, in my view, anyone, ANYONE who has the courage to enter into and stick with the monogamous, loving relationship called marriage should have that right guaranteed by the Constitution, not taken away.
And finally, this is personal for me. My sister has been in a monogamous lesbian relationship for longer than I’ve been married. That she is denied the legal protections I enjoy is inexcusable in a democratic society.
The hate, bigotry, hypocrisy(sp?), and ignorance spewing from Bush’s Republican party has, indeed, reached a level I never thought possible in our country. One can only hope the damage it has done over the past six years is not enough to destroy the country but is enough, after November, to keep them out of power for a long, long time.
I’m sorry, that should be “TRex”! I try to get names right but sometimes I hit the “submit comment” button too soon.
Ghostman,
Hope you see this.
I have just returned to this thread and finished it. Wow. Sorry about all that crap that was tossed your way. As you unfortunately got to see the repugs don’t hold exclusive license on that sort of discourse…if it can be called that.
I UNDERSTOOD and agree with what you were saying in your original comment that sparked it all… I too have caught a load and been attacked a number of times right here for sharing my personal perspectives on the subject at hand. Most surprisingly those darts came from commenters that often rant and rave about free speech and thought… cuting edge big tent progressivness…”see my mind- its so beautiful” people…I’m sure you know the type… etc etc etc.
Interestingly, what I have been most surprised at in those instances has been the thinly disguised intolerance on display from a community that we thought our own.
Something to think about, I guess we all continue to be a work in progress.
Larry
Wonderful post TRex.
Only once has the Constitution been ammended to take away a right of the people.Prohibition.Which didn’t work out so well if I remember my history correctly,lol.
What really disgusts me about this whole marriage thing(besides the utter hypocrisy)is that people who could otherwise give a shit about voting will come out to vote over this.Meanwhile the GOP screws them(and us)over on everything else.It’s frustrating as hell.
That much of this is blessed and encouraged by churches(who then use this to get people to vote in blocks)furthers my disgust.
So now Congress is going to spend the better part of June “debating”this? It truly boggles the mind.
Today, we fight. Tomorrow, we win.
thanks for the thought provoking post. being heterosexual, when i saw Brokeback Mountain, i found myself with tears at the end. that i can shout from a mountain top the love for my wife, there are lots of good men and women who can’t do that. such a shame not to be able to share that exhilirating feeling. my prayers are with all of you.
Wow. Look what I missed last nite! I hate that when it happens!
Anyhow, deep in the EPU zone, I wanted to say in the wake of all the back-and-forth that we all need to be a bit more open. Here in my mid-40’s I’m still wrapping my brain around discovering my dad is a homophobic bigot — one wouldn’t know a gay or lesbian if they came up and slapped him in the face. He never made any comments about gays when I was growing up, always made an effort to be fair and even-handed with everyone, guess I just assumed he was cool. It apparently never occurred to him that certain family friends and family members who were “single” most of their lives weren’t really just living with a long-term roommate…he broke bread and drank beer with these people, did electrical work around their homes, but NEVER clued in about their sexuality. Granted, these people have always been private and discreet, but they’re not unlike my parents and the rest of their generation; they aren’t huggy-kissy or otherwise demonstrative in public, just bad form (or in the case of being gay, not accepted for other reasons in some communities).
In particular I still haven’t figured out how he has yet to clue in about his neighbors, “the girls” as he calls them. He really likes these “girls”, talks about sports and local politics with them, would bend over backwards for them. But don’t ask him about equal rights for gays because he’ll tell you he doesn’t want “their agenda” forced on him. Damn, hearing that come out of my dad’s mouth bugged the snot out of me then and still bugs me a year later; I don’t want to “out” the girls to him, but it’s right under his nose, that these people whose company he really enjoys have an agenda that’s the same as his, living quiet lives the way they choose and expecting the government to stay the hell out of it.
Which brings me to Ghostman: for all I know, Ghostman could be like my dad, somebody who either didn’t actually know anyone gay or who never “saw” them. Cut him some slack because he’s far more conscious than my dad is or will ever be; it’s folks like my dad that we need to concentrate our efforts on because my dad is a likely swing voter this year.
Agh…which reminds me, I better make a phone call and talk to mom. The right lost her over Schiavo; I gotta’ ask her if she’s worked on dad about gays so that he doesn’t vote Repug this fall.
TRex,
BTW ….a big thank you for sharing your thought provoking, well written post. One of the best that has ever appeared here.
It made me a better man.
Haven’t read anything here yet, and about to desperately stumble into the kitchen for coffee (Fair Trade, of course), but this caught my eye:
http://corner.nationalreview.c…..VlODgzMTM=
What does Cliff know about this that I don’t?
Just a head’s up. The right is starting to go after Fitzgerald, see the WSJ editorial this morning. Of course, Fitz can handle the media whores and their editorials (see WP and NY Times) but just passing it along in case it indicates Plame might be heating up ….
http://www.opinionjournal.com/…..=110008476
Of course, you didn’t hear the WSJ editorial saying lying was no big deal when Clinton lied about having sex. Would be interesting to compare and contrast those editorials with this one. Rampant, unapologetic, hypocrits.
anon 234, Looks like you got to your coffee before I did….
new thread – old song
Peterr, I must confess I am too lozy?busy to read the Safavian indictment, so I don’t know the answer to your question.
Also, I don’t know if you have done Fed. Crim. Law or not, but for the general benefit of whoever reads this:
Federal Sentencing guidelines calcualtions are not like state sentencing laws. Although if you look in the federal criminal code you will see specific sentences for specific offenses, those are vestiges and no longer truly operative since the Federal Sentencing Guidlines where passed.
I know reporters tell you that the deendant is looking at “X – Y” , but they don’t know what they are talking about.
After a defendant is convicted htere is a seperate sentencing phase. both chargesd and uncharged behavior is considered. There are formulas with weighted scales whcih add or subtract “points”. For example if a fraud took alot of premeditation and planning, you get more points than for a spur of the moment/impulse crime. A higher level of violence gets more points.
It’s kind of like scoring Olympic ice skating or diving. There is the execution and the degree of difficulty.
There are things that take points off, like certain levels of duress, attempts at mitigation of the harm you caused, and acceptance of responsiblity.
Once you have added, subtracted and multiplied your points, you end up with a final score which you look up on a chart for a sentencing range. For example, hte lowest guidelines range, Level I, is 0- six months.
The judge is expected to sentence you within the range. However, the judge can also do what are called “departure downward” or “departure upward” and deviate from the range.
My firm is made up of ex prosecutors. We don’t really do criminal defense work, but we do represent people who feel bad about what they have done, want to cooperate with the government and want somewhat expert representation with respect to the sentencing phase.
A good guidelines package is like a good college application. I did one once that got the judge to make a 26 level depature downward from a level 27 (IIRC around 14 years) to a level 1. Strangely the client was still PO’s that he got the six month sentence at the top of the range.
The point being that his problem was non -violent. Actually no one got hurt or lost any actual mney. It was sort of a regulatory problem, but the dollars and number of people involved inflated his calculation to a point of ridulousness. And he totally spilled his guts to the FBI, which got him a really good 5K.1 letter (that is a letter that the USAO writes which despcibes how the defendant provided material suppor tto the gov’t.)
Like a college recomendation letter, this can be strong and effusive or it can be kinda non committal. So the letter goes a long way with the judge.
A well managed client who really does cooperate can demonstrate rehabilitation in advance of sentenccing thereby obviated the need for extensive incarceration.
G’morning everyone.
Just wondering . . .
I heard just a short bit yesterday about a settlement of sorts in the Wen Ho Lee suit — with news orgs settling with Lee out of court rather than divulge sources (?).
It was mentioned also that the Supremes earlier wouldn’t take up a related Lee-case issue.
(I doubt that I’m describing all this correctly, but . . . please help me connect the dots, thanks!)
Would ANY aspect of the Lee court situation outcome hold any hints for what is apt to happen in Plamegate, e-v-e-n-t-u-a-l-l-y?
Christie? Anyone?
Adie
I was wonderring the same thing myself. SCOTUS denied the cert. petition filed by the news outlets. It did not have to do that since it could have simply dropped it as moot b/c the case stlled.
SCOTUS went out of it’s way to send a message, I think. Under Brazenburg there is a real difference between protection for annonimous sourcing that protects a source htat is exposing wrongdoing and protection of a source THAT IS THE WRONGDOER.
Frankly, I think the press ought to out a source that burns them, just as a matter of principal. Or at least consider doing so.
Ah hem, Jason Leapold, you made some promises there.
The Brazenburg Court acknowledge the importance of protecting witnesses to crime who would not be able to come forward otherwise, and protecting those who commit crimes thereby making the reporter a witness.
The reporter, like any other witness to a crime is required to give evidence in court. This should be pretty plain vanilla, but for some reason, it’s not.
Thing is, there are so many closet cases (documented and not) in the Republican party, I tend to believe that they feel threatened by gay marriage.
It’s so non-self-hating. So decorate your world instead of decorate your closet. Freedom, self-respect and acceptance threaten them so. Poor dears.
I was told by a certain Old Queen to give up on my notions of finding a loving partner and settling down into a real relationship. “Men cannot truly fall in love with each other,” he told me, “We’re incapable of monogamous relationships. So, enjoy the sex, enjoy your friends, but don’t expect to find a relationship like your parents have. It doesn’t work that way for us.”
Err…according to the divorce rate and the high percentage of extramarital affairs (a bit higher for the male side of the coupling vs the female…unfortunately), it appears that it “doesn’t work that way for us” straights either.
Somehow, I don’t think the bonobos stress over the whole sex thing all that much. Perhaps we could learn something from our most interesting and closest evolutionary relative.
Great post TRex, and I think you got it exactly right. These people like sneaking and lying. They’re good at it.
Oh, Frosty the Snowman knows what a ‘civil right’ is, never doubt it, it’s what his boss has been working on taking away from everybody who’s not a ‘born on third’ asshole Skull & Bones fascist wannabe.
Yep, Frosty knows….
But he ain’t sayin’
TRex — You ROCK!
What you’ve descibed here is something I like to call the Roy Cohn Syndrome: gay people who stay in the closet the better to acquire the power of those opposed to all things gay.
It’s a shame that “60 Minutes” in their Mike Wallace tribute didn’t show the footage of Ol’ Roy 24 hours before he bought the farm denying he had AIDS or was gay.
Barbara Walters LONGED to marry him, you know. He used to take his fuck du jour with them on their dates. Baba would go on and on (and on) about how Roy shouldn’t be so “lonely” while the stud would eat his steak. Then Roy would drive Baba home and take the stud back to his place.
looseheadprop 238
Thanks! Thot I’d been EPU’d, so didn’t notice your fine explanation till just now.
Much appreciated. ;->
eureka springs eternal
The gays that I’ve met(and worked with) weren’t any different from the straights. Same worries: bills, cars, kids. Some are more flamboyant that others (piercings, mostly) but that’s into personal choices.
I still haven’t heard any good reason why discrimination in the form of banning same-sex marriage should be legal. If marriage as an institution is that weak, why do people still get married? And that’s all that the amendment really is about, legalizing discrimination so the conservatives have someone they can feel superior to.
I think what we are seeing is a classism that permeates all of the Republican party elite about sexual matters. Gays or even heteros with active sex lives can stay in a party that is actively trying to outlaw gay sex, sex outside of marriage, birth control and abortion because those rules aren’t for the ruling elite. Those laws are only for the peasant foot soldiers of the religious right. The rich elite of the Republican party was always able to go to a more liberal state or country or a doctor willing to ignore rules for the price for contraceptives or abortions. The gay sex was winked at as long as you were rich enough or influential enough for a cover-up if anything slipped out. Just look at the affairs, divorces and general rotten private lives of the politicians and right wing commentators that are promoting the divorce-less marriage, the bans on birth control, abstinence only sex education.
LAllen, I believe you are even closer to the mark than you realize. It’s really all about who has the money in the end.