FITZ !!!

Yeah, great way to start the day !!!

FATZ – Domino

Hey, what’s goin’ on with those two dudes on the couch?

Makin’ me feel frisky!

;)

fitz

By the way, I’ve seen comment zero several times, but not every time. Mayhaps when two submit at the same time?

John from AmericaBlog had this on about 2 weeks ago…it is truly a disturbing picture of the anti-gay rights movement in the country…

John also noted that the literature for the program says it will never “cure the gay out of you” just suppress your gay feelings

what ever that means

I was azero yesterday morn

I’m thinking that a great catch phrase for the up coming elections ( and Darkblack if you’re there …)is….. “If you voted for Bush then blood is on your hands” Anybody care to comment ?

EPU’d

“Every time we have this discussion, every time we speak back to the culture, the importance of the primacy of marriage as it was originally defined as between a man and a woman %u2014 that’s a winning posture.”

Maybe not%u2026

snip

“I think they’re at the stage of diminishing returns for this, in part because there aren’t as many states this time around that have marriage ban proposals of one kind or another up on the ballot. Not like ‘04.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13100686/

“Disturbed” doesn’t even begin to convey how this made me feel.

I keep trying to understand these points of view, but I’m giving up. I don’t understand. I guess I just feel sorry that people are so threatened by being who they are, or allowing others to be who they are, and that it has created a market for “conversion therapists,” of all things.

I swear, if people do not make an effort to counter the vote that this kind of nonsense is pandering to…going to be some seriously angry people.

Redd sez:

” And I’m not sure, exactly, how being held by your therapist is supposed to make you not gay any more?”

Your unlicensed therapist, however, has more leeway in these situations, because his or her professional credentials can’t be yanked for coming up with batshit dumb ideas.

Mommybrain,
The times I had gotten the zero post, the message said there are no comments posted.I posted and it came on screen,Then I waited quite a while before anyone else posted.Dunno,I guess it’s timing somehow. My comments are posted in the same minute the article comes out. May be some weird computer glitch. It’s kinda fun though.Something to do while waiting for more comments on the old thread.

I hear you can cure heterosexuality too.

Its called marriage.

Cozumel -

thanks for the KO transcript downstairs – it was at least encouraging to see an insider like Feinman poo poo these efforts – he appeared to have trouble suppressing laughter

YES, I HAVE had enough. Even my silly airhead neighbor has seen through the election year politics and she usually pays NO ATTENTION AT ALL to the world around her.

And as to the other thing they’ll be doing soon, this LTE appeared in my local paper several years ago. I love it.

“Set up early warning systems for every imaginable natural disaster. Cut taxes. Pull us out of the mudslides and the raging waters. Cut taxes. Help me rebuild in the same insanely dangerous location. Cut taxes. Get that boulder off the road. Cut taxes. Repair those potholes by tomorrow. Cut taxes. Save my house. Save my car. Save my baby. Cut taxes. Maintain a world-class kindergarten-through-college education system. Cut taxes.

We ought to be ashamed of ourselves.” Donald Kerns, Garden Grove, CA. (I suppose since his name was printed with his letter, it’s ok to name him here?)

I think our nation is in the last throes of sanity.

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go beat my penis with a tennis racket.

-GSD

So do they speak in tongues and hold snakes too? This is just more of the Bush and religious Right’s war on science. Next, they’re going to go back to exorcisms and witch dunkings.

Haw, kristinejoy — reminds me of a NYer cartoon on my fridge: husband and wife reading the paper, he says, “Gays and lesbians getting married — haven’t they suffered enough?”

That video makes me wonder just how “ex-gay” that therapist really is. Where’s Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell when you need it?

Now I have to go cleanse my retinas with memories of Fitzy’s presser.

Naw, Hugh, they hold each other’s tongues and speak snakes (a trick only goopers can master).

Steve Clark– you can add this to the wasted lives shattered and lost by the wars of this administration. It’s part of their whole immoral morality.

>>>>>>>

Health workers see the fingerprints of America’s Christian right all over the chastity message and believe the Bush administration is using its financial might to bully them into accepting evangelical ideology at the expense of public health.

Aids may have killed one million Ugandans and infected a further million but the latest crisis seems strange when you consider that foreign donors still hold up Uganda as Africa’s Aids success story. What’s more, under Bush’s 2003 Emergency Plan For Aids Relief, where he pledged $15bn (8bn) to fighting Aids in the worst-afflicted countries, Uganda receives more US money than ever: doubling in two years to $169.9m in 2006. But that cash comes with conditions: in a gesture to the Christian right in the US, at least one-third of all prevention money must go to “abstinence-only” projects – $10m in Uganda in 2005. Critics counting each new infection in field clinics say this has dangerously skewed Uganda’s previous “balanced” approach which seemed to be working.

http://news.independent.co.uk/…..622736.ece

somehow we need to use these horrifying and absurd moments, to illustrate how outrageous and out of touch these people are.

i’ve said it before, if they weren’t serious, this stuff would be hilarious.

how do we turn this stuff on its head and make it work for us?

Ask someone in the East Village what “santorum” means, when used as a noun. Preferably before dining.

that looks like the cure for celibacy.

oxide 19 — amen.

One of my favorite quotes is from Horace Mann and it seems to fit this situation, “We go by the major vote, and when the insane become the major vote, the sane must go to the hospital.”

These people are insane and they seek to make their insanity the standard way of thinking. What time should I report for check-in at the hospital?

more observations here:

http://www.thoughttheater.com

From your friends at The Corner (sorry, I won’t link to them):

Judge Reggie Walton has just issued a new order in the Lewis Libby case. In it, Walton refused nearly all of Libby’s requests for documents concerning Joseph Wilson’s trip to Africa, Valerie Plame Wilson’s role in arranging that trip, the identities of people in the government outside the CIA who knew Valerie Plame Wilson worked for the CIA, and several other items. Libby’s request, Walton wrote, was “largely without merit.”

Assuming Christy is pouring over Judge Walton’s latest as we speak/type…

From two threads ago, there was I think an implied criticism of the American intelligence community, that not only could they not be trusted but they were ineffective as well. To counter this second point, I would like to list some of their more notable successes in prediction:

1. USSR ballistic missile capabilities 1960-1990
2. Fall of the Shah
3. Fall of the USSR
4. Iraqi invasion of Kuwait
5. India going nuclear
6. Pakistan going nuclear
7. 9/11
8. Location of Osama bin Laden, Zawahiri, and Zarqawi
9. Iraqi WMD
10. The Iraqi insurgency
11. The Iranian nuclear program

Just think what they could do if we just allowed them that extra information they wanted!

Great to know I’m such a big threat to America. I just thought I was a mom, trying to do best by her kids and her “spouse” (who spoils the whole apple pie image by not having a penis.) We at least am raising our girls to think independently and make up there own minds about what is really important in this world.

I always think if they met me or families like mine, how could they hate me? But its built in to the religous dialogue–hate the sin, not the sinner. So they can know me and yet never know me.

Neurophius – They wait for me to post, which is why I didn’t write something longer.

Book Club – I realize the trend is to current authors, but I want to put in a request for “Myth of the State” by Ernst Cassirer (alternate spelling is with a K). It is one of the greatest books of political philosophy/science of all time, and fits into all that we discuss regarding TEAM LOSER. From Wikipedia I give you this, particularly the last sentence:

Cassirer’s last major work he spent time preparing was The Myth of the State. The book was published posthumously in 1946 after Cassirer’s sudden death. Cassirer argues that the idea of a totalitarian state evolved from ideas advanced by Plato, Dante, Machiavelli, Gobineau, Carlyle and Hegel. He concludes that the Fascist regimes of the 20th century were symbolised by a myth of destiny and the promotion of irrationality.

Joseph Campbell is how most people understand myth in this country – there are others of even greater standing who have written on the subject. Plus, I’ve read the book and could participate since no homework would be involved.

Walton has a new ruling – excellent news. I am starved for Fitz info.

And I think we might have to wait for quite some time for a Rove indictment or other development.

Fitz follows his own deliberate schedule.

I find it helpful to remember that as hard as it is for us to wait for Fitz, it must be exponentially more difficult for Rove.

After all, Rove has to sleep with the sword of Fitzocles dangling over his bed…

xyz-

Byron York has Walton’s latest over at The Corner if you are interested in his spin.

Me, I can wait for CHS.

From The Guardian’s wicked, wicked cartoonist, Steve Bell:

No Dolphins Were Harmed in Training This Soldier

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cart…..98,00.html

think I’ll go over to The Corner and see what BabsByron has to say . . .

Re, marriage:

Memorial Day evening, my partner and I got home early from a BBQ. He looked at me and wondered, “Now what do we do?”

I countered, “Well, now we sit around and snidely pick at each other until the full weight of mindless picking poisons our life together forever.”

Then we laughed and. . . otherwise entertained ourselves.

I’m imagining the experience of having been forced to develop patterns of mutual relating in the face of broad familial and cultural opposition has strengthned us to the point that marriage, should it be an option for us, would not at all be corrosive to our relationship. But I don’t expect we’ll ever know, frankly.

It is hard to accept that there are people in our country who can’t sleep nites because of same sex marriaiges. It is an even greater obscenity to have politicians exploit those sorrowful sex obsessed mostly bible thumping bigots, the poster children for hypocrosy. This kind of bigotry competes with the worst qualitys possessed by the radical islamic masses we are striving to democratize. For the first time in our nation’s short history we will have codified discrimination in our constitution, if this bill passes. How insulting to our constitution to even contemplate such an amendment!! Leave it to the states…Hell, we fought a civil war over state’s rights..Let the locals decide..

OK, let me see if I’ve got this.

If you’re gay, hugging a same-sex therapist will make you not gay anymore.

So, if I now hug my opposite-sex husband, will that turn me gay?

I’m so confused.

When I first saw that photograph, I thought it was Senator Bill Frist holding a large black dog in his lap. Or would that be Senator Santorum?

Steve Clark said:

“I’m thinking that a great catch phrase for the up coming elections ( and Darkblack if you’re there %u2026)is%u2026.. “If you voted for Bush then blood is on your hands” Anybody care to comment ? “

Maybe if we were going to prosecute everyone who voted for Bush… otherwise no. It’s not that I don’t believe Bush and everyone who voted for him has blood on their hands.

It’s just that a good catch phrase does not attempt to assign blame. Rather it invites people to participate in a solution. Give them a clear path. Don’t beat them with an ice pick. It’s the same reason the dairy industry uses “Got Milk?” instead of “Still defiling your body with soda?”

Well, I want every single soul to have that choice, Pach. All of my gay and lesbian friends who are in civil unions are still together and a wonder to behold. They are a source of inspiration to many others, maybe because of the obstacles they have overcome in order to be together.

Maybe a little rudeness is needed with this subject. If someone were to explain to me why they don’t support gay marriage based on some theory of why a person supposedly became gay, I’d probably reply “Why should a gay person give a fuck about your explanation? How does this change the fact that this person deserves equal protection under the law?”

An important thing gay and lesbians can do is talk to their straight friends and family members. It doesn’t really factor into their daily thinking how we are being attacked for who we are.

I have friends and family memebers who are poltically astute and they know, however there is a sizeable goup of people in my circle who had no clue about a lot of this.

When I expressed my frustration with the direction of the country in regard to being gay, and how I was looking into my immigration options becuase of the lack of outrage that my rights are being denied, how the constitution in being used as a poltical stunt and that I can’t live my life as full fledged American with 100% of the rights that they have, they wake up.

I know there are a lot of straight people who feel passionately about this, and I thank you. There are some who aren’t aware, and once I have their attention, I move onto the issues that will impact their lives, abortion, birth control and how Focus on the
Family is fighting the vaccine for the cervical cancer virus.

Once they deny the rights of gay and lesbians, they ain’t going to stop.

OT but
Broder — “getting killed” with negative email over column on Clintons’ marriage

http://mediamatters.org/items/200606010012

It boggles my little mind that these people completely ignore the fucking jobs they were elected to do.Steroids in Baseball? Terry Schiavo?Flag burning? Oh, let’s not forget people being able to be with who they want. GET OUT OF MY BEDROOM, AND STAY OUT!Go build a fucking bridge to nowhere and make yourselves useful.Idiots.

Yay, a hot cuppa from Christy and Pam! Steaming!

Thank you, Stephen Parrish!

Ed at 41….. I’m trying to make these people think ” what did I do ? ” They need to take some responsibility for voting these traitors into office. I’m trying to put the guilty on a guilt trip. Don’t you think they deserve at least that for being too lazy to seek the truth ?

Here’s a direct link to Judge Walton’s order:
http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/op…..2006-a.pdf

Human sexuality is great, isn’t it?

I can’t help but think of how many heterosexual people would flip their lid contemplating their OWN sexuality as it relates to principles of what Otto Kernberg called ‘polymorphous perverse sexuality’ (which is defined as healthy and normal, btw).

If I were King Of The Journalists, all my loyal subjects would be required to attend remedial classes on science — because they obviously didn’t pay attention the first time.

Before returning to duty, these journalists would be required to fully understand basic concepts like double blind, clinical trial, theory, hypothesis, speculation, control groups, placebo effect, proof of efficacy, standard deviation, randomization, forms of energy and how to measure them, statistical insignificance, mode of action, and repeatability of results.

love, love, love Walton’s “although largely without merit” and the gigando DENIED at the end, thanks Stephen Parrish, CPA.

as I recall from distant days of college: journalism students were rarely considered intellectuals by any means…

Meanwhile, in Canada:

Airbase hosts 1st military gay wedding

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada…..g0614.html

I don’t believe therapists should be out to cure teh gay. However, if a gay man or woman is conflicted about their sexual desires there should be therapists who are willing and able to address those issues. Having unwanted(not to say that many gay attractions are unwanted, but surely some are) sexual desires seems to be the kind of thing that a mental health professional should be able to treat.

Once again, im not defending this guy. Realistically though, if serious professionals will not touch those issues you can bet that quacks and assholes will.

Rove is gonna make teevee ads for the rubes. They will feature the democrat voting against the marriage ammendment and a picture of a male gay couple like the one the AARP ad. This alone will not resonate with the people.
Rove’s ads will obfuscate any anti-spying, anti-WOT, anti-child po*n votes/issues with the marriage ammendement, ie: Not only did Congressman Sissypants vote in favor of gay marriage, he also voted against measures that would help capture child molesters. Does Sen. Sissypants share your family values?
Most people don’t care whether or not gays can marry. Many feel that gays should have the same rights that a marriage provides to heterosexuals. Only the super duper prayer team wingnuts do not – these would be our 29% supporters of the worst president ever.

The democrats need to come out clearly on their positions. Ned Lamont is a good example. Make people understand that gays just want the same rights as any other Americans. They do not ask for special treatment, only the same treatment under the law. Waffling candidates are going to be hurt by the Rove machine. They will say stupid waffley things and Rove will have them on teevee commercials looking stupid and waffley.

don’t forget the Mounties! Two men from the RCMP got married recently too! Top that…

The Democrats just sent an e-mail out about the amendment, I’m surprised.

http://www.democrats.org/page/…..tdiscrmntn

Why does turning out gay have to be a dichotomy between being “born” gay and “deliberately choosing” to be gay?

People don’t “choose” to be crazy or sick, either but we don’t feel compelled to say that means they were all “born that way”

Duh.

*ilson46201 says:
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:14 pm

as I recall from distant days of college: journalism students were rarely considered intellectuals by any means%u2026

I’ve heard of at least on person who changed their major to journalism because the one they were in required math classes – high-school equivalent. I keep remembering that when reading general-interest stories involving science.

gosh–when will my comment get out of moderation?

I will try again…

Great to know I’m such a big threat to this land of ours. I just thought I was a mom, trying to do best by her kids and her “spouse” (who spoils the whole apple pie image by not having a penis.) We at least am raising our girls to think independently and make up there own minds about what is really important in this world.

I always think if they met me or families like mine, how could they hate me? But its built in to the religous dialogue%u2013hate the sin, not the sinner. So they can know me and yet never know me.

God, York is such a bald faced weenie.
“It is clear from the order that, despite prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s allegations that the leak of Valerie Plame Wilson’s identity “damage[d]%u2026all of us,” Walton is trying to keep the case away from the CIA leak itself and closely limited to the issue of whether Libby lied to the grand jury:”

Bullcr**, that is EXACTLY what Fitz argued in all of his filings and the judge agreed with him. Further the judge looked at documents that stated Plame status was classified and agreed with Fitz that they are extremely sensitive and that Fitz could provide summaries. Ya think York and the wingnuts are going to apologize for their ‘not covert’ canard. Yeah, I’ll hold my breath.

Steve said:

“Don’t you think they deserve at least that for being too lazy to seek the truth?”

Yes, clearly I do. But I’m really much more interested in what WE deserve. I’m not getting any younger and I want my country back.

The election this fall MAY be a way to begin doing just that — though I’m currently having a lot of issues with the Democratic leadership — or rather lack thereof.

What I’m suggesting is that, in the interests of stopping this madness ASAP, we offer former Bush voters full and complete amnesty if the come clean now — and if it goes down any easier we could change the word “amnesty” to “Guest Voter” program.

Walton ruling: typo in footnote 7 last page, ‘aligned with the protection’ should be ‘aligned with the prosecution’.

Steve Clark and Ed – the “blood is on your hands” made me think of the purple fingers so proudly displayed after the Iraqi elections. I think it could be a powerful image, and provoke some serious thought, to juxtapose photos of dead Iraqi children next to a picture of what looks like Americans, perhaps wearing Bush t-shirts, holding up blood red hands.

One problem is that there are a fair number of people who think the death of anyone from that region – even a child – is a good thing.

And sometimes people do not react well to attempts to shame them, but in the right market, it could be very effective.

Shorter Walton: Libby can have papers, if any, that demonstrate he was only trying to rebut the accuracy of Wilson’s article. The rest of that laundry list: FORGET IT.

I do not consider myself a deviant. I merely sneak into the childrens petting zoo late at night, lay in the grass and salt my fanny.

I mean, who am I hurting??

mommybrain @ 11:27 am (#16) – A few years ago, I was stuck behind this car at a traffic light. On the car were two bumper stickers, one was in favor of whatever tax-cutting initiative was on the ballot this year, the second was protesting the proposed toll on the new suspension bridge that’s being built over the Hood Canal. I suppose the guy figured all the roads should lead downhill in both directions, too.

Excluded Middle – Although I don’t believe there is any serious scientific literature that supports nurture over nature re: sexuality, there are a number of reasons why, for Wingnuts, homosexuality has to be nurture (or even conscious choice).

Along the lines of this thread… I was just reading Journalism is Broken

excerpt The biggest problem facing the journalism world is its ongoing ignorance of opinion. Facts are often meaningless without interpretation. To act like bias and subjectivity in that interpretation don’t exist is not only naive, it’s short-sighted. For all that people talk about wanting “just the facts”, that isn’t true, they want them interpreted and presented in some particular way – witness the popularity of Fox News, or the interest in things like The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. It’s this embrace of subjectivity that tends to separate old and new media, and is holding back journalism.

Relevant commentary that struck me,
“Objectivity is the key, and it’s the crumbling of objectivity that’s killing journalism…”

Oh, and read about Operation Mockingbird” it kind of puts things in context.

wingers want to deny gay folk rights and protection cause it’s a “lifestyle choice” but isn’t any given religion also just another “lifestyle choice” ? By definition, nobody is born a Baptist!

Congrats fdl, 12,000,000 site visits!

Rubbers are for stamping on liberty only with a republican congress.
I need an ($300 hourly) hug, Wait wait don’t touch me!

Oilfieldguy @ 69:

Perfectly normal behaviour. Peanutbutter sticks around longer though. Just a tip.

OT
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/179520.php

Whiny ass titty babies agree: anyone who thinks the election was stolen is just trying to smear a black conservative. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
…I mean, come ON. Can’t they do any better than that?

OT– but helloooo, Ms Rice, anybody???

>>>>>>>>>>>>

MASKIOT, West Bank -
Israel has begun laying the foundations for a new Jewish settlement deep in the
West Bank – breaking a promise to Washington while strengthening its hold on a stretch of desert it wants to keep as it draws its final borders.

The construction of Maskiot comes at a time when Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert seeks U.S. backing for eventually annexing parts of the West Bank as part of a plan to set Israel’s eastern border with or without Palestinian consent.

The Palestinians and Israel’s settlement watchdog group Peace Now say the Maskiot construction amounts to a new attempt to push Israel’s future border deeper into the West Bank. “It’s about grabbing land,” said Yariv Oppenheimer of Peace Now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..settlement

That was weird – Here is the rest of the post.

1. God abhors vacuums as well as homosexuals. Of course, that is only their interpretation of god’s views and theology, but that is all that matters. If homosexuality is nature, then it is part of god’s plan and they can’t be against.

2. If sexuality is nature than the constitutionality of any amendment, which would be in doubt regardless, could be attacked in more ways. The analogy here is to religious belief – you can believe in polygamy as part of your religion, but the state can outlaw polygamy.

3. It is the first shot in a war by these nuts on all sexuality, not simply homosexuality. If sex is thought, then almost any aspect of sexuality and sex can be banned. If birth control is simply a conscious choice (which it is), then why couldn’t it be banned likewise. But I am not a conspiracy thoerist, so I am sure they will stop with homosexuals and we won’t face a future where only married couples can have sex, enforced abstinance for teenagers. Remember, its all in your head, not in your pants.

I just want to say, who didn’t have a distant dad and an overbearing mother”?

Cohen is an unlicensed therapist. He offers the theory that some kind of childhood trauma triggers homosexuality. All it takes is figuring out what it is, healing from it and moving on.

Cohen: denatured denurture be denature of his practice.

Or: suborning gays to perjure themselves so’s they can be “reborn” straight.

Anne @ 65,

I think these folks would be contained in the group that is the 29% Chimp supporters. Most people are now fed up with the war and the deaths. Of these, some don’t mind the deaths of their perceived ememies, but they hate the deaths of American military personel. So, yes, they’ve all got blood on their hands. If you vote(d) for any republican, you’ve got blood on your hands.

Blood on you face, big disgrace, waving your banner all over the place.

Steve:

I’m also very concerned with respect to the numerous, highly unlikely coincidences reported in RFKjr’s piece in Rolling Stone (Was the 2004 Election Stolen?).

Because it basically comes down to this: If the integrity of the electoral process has been corrupted, then elections are a sham and the 2006 elections offer no chance of meaningful change.

Such a scenario would be unparalleled in my lifetime and a far more serious threat to this republic than Osama Bin Laden has ever been.

James Dobson knows who you folks, the Jane Hamsher’s of the left in the fever swamp, are in league with while you push your “pro-gay” agenda.

“… As you all very well know, marriage is under vicious attack now, I think from the forces of hell itself,” – James Dobson, on his radio show, May 30.

-GSD

Place the pitchforks down and step away from the firepit.

cathy#79 – Too true! LOL

Since all this hatred of gays is a result of a few words in Leviticus, I suggest that, if they are truly serious, we should see the fundies in Congress with long beards, smelling of the smoke of animal sacrifices and trailing their multiple wives behind them. Oh wait, that’s Utah!

Sophist @ 12:32 pm (#72) – From that paragraph, it looks to me that logic is broken. The author assumes that the reason people watch Fox and The Daily Show is because they’ll hear opinions they want to hear. Both actually do present both views and information that occasionally represent the views of the other side, and, more importantly, no one has actually conducted a test to prove the author’s contention one way or the other. There are lots of possible reasons for the popularity of those programs, even if you know, or think you know, the content of them.

The author also assumes that the same people who watch those shows are also the ones complaining about not seeing enough facts.

In fact, the funny thing about TDS is that it often skewers the press for not doing its job properly. It’s one of the things I enjoy most about the show, and I’m one of those who complain about the fact-challenged nature of modern journalism.

My #2 above should read the “constitutionality of any law….” The idea of a constitutional amendment is to make it constitutional.

Why is it so difficult for people to just be who they are and allow others to be who they are?

Whatever happened to the virtue of “Live and let live”? Why has our country become such a haven for nosy busy-bodies and why has the nosy busy-body become an acceptable lifestyle?

So I take it no frogs are marching today? Shit!

Ed N Sted 83, absolutely.
My new motto: Don’t worry, it can always get worse. (Sort of a depressive’s “count your blessings” thing.)

Takes moral courage to use political blackmail to force others to do what you think they should do.

Use of the word “controversial” to describe conversion therapy is avoiding a whole host of issues, not the least of which is how damaging it could be to encourage further repression of a part of someone’s identity. That this unlicensed therapist is seen frolicking on his lawn with his children is all well and good, but the sight of him hitting the pillow with the tennis racket as he invokes his mother’s name, makes me wonder what lies beneath (and how far beneath) that “comforting” exterior. In addition, how much outrage would there be if that therapist was hugging and caressing and comforting a young woman? And who sees this episode and doesn’t wonder how close to the surface the therapist’s urges are, and if he hasn’t just found an acceptable – to him – way of satisfying his need to be close to other men? And he can charge people, to boot! I think there’s a term for people like this…

As a woman, wife and mother, who is due to celebrate anniversary #26 this year, I can tell you that I do not feel my marriage has ever been, or ever will be, threatened by gays. In fact, I really can’t think of anything I have that is threatened by gays.

People who feel threatened by gays or by gay marriage are suffering from their own insecurities – about who they are or what they feel. They would do better to look within themselves to solve their problems than to keep looking outward and demanding that others change so they can feel better.

And with so much that is important staring us in the face, it defies logic that we could be devoting so much time and energy trying to corrupt the constitution in order to make discrimination legal.

I’ve always hate the nature/nurture angle. I’m a contrarian but I always defend my choice to be gay. Its a choice to be happy, and my right.

James Dobson is from Hell. He and the religious right have invoked Hell and all its Demons on innocent men, women and children everywhere in more ways than one. (Plus, I think the self righteous, sanctimonious gasbag is probably gay, himself. He doth protest too much.)

And Digby hits the nail on the head with this quote for the day (emphasis added):

Kennedy’s article makes serious charges in a deeply serious fashion. The ad hominem attacks from the rightwing trackbacks this post has received just ain’t gonna cut it. The specifics have to be engaged.

Bruce Funk: American Hero

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3890918

Ed N Sted @ 96:

Digby’s blog, but tristero’s post.

(Ain’t tryin’ to be small-minded pedant, just more a “credit-where-credit’s-due” kinda thing is all.)

am sure many here can tell similar stories, but the most egregious example of cruelty I ever witnessed personally was that of 3 different mothers denying their dying sons a mom’s embrace on their deathbeds – all b/c of this ignorant, superstitious shit

2 of them continued to correspond w/ me over the years, they’ll never forgive themselves – neither will I – rot in your self made hell

An artist friend took a photograph of a “Focus On The Family — Hellmouth, CO” roadsign, with a lightning strike in the background.

And it’s not photoshopped — although the Hellmouth part is my embellishment.

If anyone wants a copy, I’ll inquire about the prices.

cathy 79 LOL

Cujo – they also kind of skip the part where one asks you to apply, and one to suspend, critical thought.

Oh well.

Well, doing ketchup, the comment from an earlier thread about DM’s take on journalism and blogs seem relevant. Despite my bad mood, I’ve decided that Dana Millbank isn’t really criticizing bloggers, he’s looking for an administrative assistant. My inner journalist is tugging at my sleeve for a chance to see if I could fill the bill, so heregoes:

Filed under: You’ll have to eat your lunch all by yourself:

http://tinyurl.com/qzvzh

“There are some efforts and systems that leave us out, and we obviously favor institutions that are inclusive rather than exclusive,” said a senior Pentagon official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

I know you’re thinking “WOW, so the Pentagon’s in favor of gay marriage!??!”

Not egggggggggsactly.
U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld will urge Asian nations at a security meeting in Singapore to resist attempts to exclude the United States from regional groupings.

Because, as Rumsfeld points out, the “United States is very much a Pacific nation”

It is currently unconfirmed, but according to several highly placed administration sources, Rumsfeld then leaned over and whispered: Go’on – ask Bill Frist what he does with those cats he gets. That guy makes the best MeowGooGaiPan you’ve ever tasted!

WaPo held back on this portion of the story, as Dana Millbank decided to await confirmation from a demonstrable source. Like VP Cheney, whose prophetic announcements as to the Iraqi Nuclear programs and the last throes of the insurgency have been demonstrably as truthy as Rumsfelds own assertions as to location of WMDs. Although the VP was not forthcoming and reached for a shotgun, Millbank gave in to his sense of competition with the bloggers and invited himself to lunch with the TN Senator. Millbank: The seasoning was purrfect. And I’d like to see a blogger get lunch out of Frist without having to pick up the Tabby.

Rumsfeld’s geographic observations as to the Pacific nature of the United States are a logical follow up to Bush’s “India and Pakistan are not the same country” insight and demonstrate the increasing effectiveness of the State Department’s newly re-formatted briefing books, which have recently been punched up with multi-color, story-boxed, slick cover presentations, reducing the verbiage and where possible replacing it with action scenes depicting good and evil interests struggling for dominion in spandex. The re-formatted briefings patriotically bear a large DC on the cover which is, from time to time, for exceptional impact, replaced with the coded caption, “MARVEL”

[Ed note – I can’t help it Dana - The real humor is the thought of Rumsfeld attending something dubbed the “Shangri-La Forum.” Has that new comic book guy – Zinmeister? – finished his 6 color spread of Rumsfeld surrounded by missiles festooned with lotus blossoms? ]

Anyway – while Rumsfeld is trying to be the bull in the China shop, Israel is networking directly with our DOJ, seeking insight into how they can handle a burgeoning problem. Sudanese refugees.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20…..sm/oasylum

A mix of Muslims and Christians have been slipping into Israel illegally. Israel is currently studying a wide range of solutions and assistance, including many offered by the US, ranging from shipment to GITMO, rendition to Syria, crushing testicles of children or, where no children are available, adults; and building a wall around Israel.

In the spirit of international sharing, the US is also studying proposals received from Egypt as to methods of handling civil protests. Egypt was recently able to very speedily resolve a code yellow emergency created when potential refugees engaged in a sit-in at UN offices. The response by the govt of deNile, dubbed the “Walk Like An Egyptian” response by those Yoo groupees left behind at DOJ (and yoo know who yoo are) involves killing anyone involved in the sit-in. BTW – Walk Like An Egyptian is a classified title, but we liked so much we decided to report it even at the cost of three CIA career professionals, two members of the House Intelligence Committee, two journalists and one inside DOJ source. See, we were sitting around with Dana and suddenly the lightbulb went off. Get it? The protestors are sitting (not walking), then they are dead (so, again, not walking) and . . . Well, if you see the promo with the Bangles, you’ll get it – a picture is worth a thousand words (and a few leakers).

OT…from Raw Story…
“Republican Jim Galley, who is running for Congress as a “pro-traditional family” candidate, was married to two women at the same time, defaulted on his child support payments and has been accused of abuse by one of his ex-wives.”

I don’t think that “traditional family values” means what some Repubs think it means!

MNW,
The Right Wing throughout history has never left anyone alone, ever. When Constantine embraced Christianity in 312 AD it was b/c he needed the soldiers to fight his wars. The right wing and religion have worked hand in hand ever since. Telling people that they gotta be, live, act, just like them. They got the power, the money and the tools to keep people stupid and repressed.

Huckermill at 12:54pm:

Ooops. I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing this out. I firmly believe it is important to give credit where credit is due.

While the whole “curing gays” thing is appalling, I agree with Christy that the best way to fight this is to call attention to fact that the Republican leadership thinks that this is the most important thing for our government to be doing right now! That’s what the uniform Democratic response should be. No wedges, doesn’t matter if some Democrats aren’t in favor of gay rights or gay marriage. They don’t even have to touch on how ludicrous the fundamentalist basis of this is.

Stay away from the wedge. Stay on message, which is “in a time of war, terrorism, stagnating wages, skyrocketing gas prices, unaffordable health care, and impending hurricane season, their highest priorities are gay marriage and flag burning! Is that what you want, Mr. and Mrs. Voter? Is that who you want in charge when the next Katrina hits?”

(I’m not saying that we shouldn’t speak out against this crap on its merits. But that’s what I think our Democratic officials should be saying.)

I saw a bumper sticker last weekend:

“Focus on your own damn family”

Huzzah.

-GSD

Isn’t this marriage amendment move really intended to remind the base (and particularly those on the far right that voted in record numbers in 2004) that they must be vigilant…that there is more work to be done…that they mustn’t stay at home in the 2006 midterm election?

If I were asked to predict the Bush and Rove strategy, the following would be my calculations and conclusions:

1) The President is generally unpopular…especially when Iraq is part of the equation. The risk is that Iraq, coupled with corruption, Katrina, big debt, uncontrolled spending, and other scandals might feed a mindset to throw out the Party in power. Therefore they have to change the subject or provide the risks and reasons that would make that a bad idea.

2) What can the President bring to bear on the 2006 elections? He can’t travel the country stumping for Republicans because his presence will remind people about Iraq and the other negatives.

3) However, he can bring what he brought in 2004…a big turnout by those on the religious right. Those voters either don’t vote or they vote their values. The key is getting them to vote by giving them a reason. That is done in consort with religious leaders through the church structure…no need to be out on the campaign trail…the voters will get their marching orders each Sunday.

4) He can do that by reminding those voters (by virtue of a defeat of the marriage amendment) that they must get out and vote Republican. Losing the vote on the amendment is a strategic victory. They wouldn’t bring it to a vote if it made voters stay home in November. The grumbling by the leadership on the right is part of the strategy…they also benefit when their flock is mad…they can raise more money…and they can motivate them to take action. The leadership may be mad at Bush on some levels but they are fully in sync when it comes to keeping their eye on the main objective. Simply stated, if Bush delivers the Supreme Court, all other sins are forgivable.

5) So the goal is to be sure to point out that they succeeded in appointing two conservative Supreme Court Justices…and make it clear that one more appointment will likely mean victory for the movement for the next 20 years. They have to make it clear that if they lose the Senate, they may lose the ability to win the Supreme Court. This is the trump card of the strategy…they simply point out how close the movement is to achieving the “final” victory…they acknowledge to the voters that the administration has had some troubles (recall the admission of mistakes at the press conference with Tony Blair…no doubt part of the overall strategy) but they have never lost sight of the big prize…they delivered two conservative votes and they just need one more…the voters have got to stick with them if they want the big prize.

6) Is there any doubt what drives these voters? Does anyone question the fervor with which they seek to assert their influence? Is it possible they would stay at home if they understand what’s at stake? Not a chance.

read full article here:

http://www.thoughttheater.com

OT – My mystery moderator from last night – thank you! It isn’t much of a tragedy if my posts get lost – there are plenty of them and they are pretty much worth what they cost, but I appreciate it. I didn’t understand the 3 or 5 letters though? Thanks again.

I have always told my family and friends that I hope my son grows up to be straight, because I know that his life will be easier as a straight man than as a gay man in the same way as my straight friends’ and siblings’ lives are so much easier than mine. Yet no matter what he chooses, my partner and I will love him enormously be he straight or gay. When I tell this to straight people they are surprised at first; I guess because they think that as a gay person I would want my son to be gay; but when I tell this to gay people, especially other gay parents, they totally get it. Who doesn’t want their children’s lives to be easier?

GSD-

“Focus on your own damn family”

I gotta get me one of those. Along with:

Focus on your own spirituality

Focus on your own sexuality

Focus on your own marriage

Focus on the fact that you are an ignorant SOB

read the full newspaper story about that bigamist winger — it’s hilarious! even his military service record doesn’t hold up ! http://www.signonsandiego.com/…..alley.html

MNW@89:

Why is it so difficult for people to just be who they are and allow others to be who they are?

Whatever happened to the virtue of Live and let live? Why has our country become such a haven for nosy busy-bodies and why has the nosy busy-body become an acceptable lifestyle?

I would say that impression of American history is largely erroneous. The anti-intellectual, hardline Protestant segment of the country has long been about the business of intruding into the lives of people they consider “different” and therefore “bad”. As examples, I would cite “blue laws” that force stores to close on the (Christian) sabbath, and much more seriously, anti-sodomy and anti-miscegenation laws. Unlike in the past, the federal government under Bushco aids and abets these efforts rather than trying to constrain them.

Thank you for including this item here. Thanks also for emphasizing that Cohen is an UNLICENSED therapist. I am a licensed psychologist who is also an openly gay man. I wish I could believe that CNN produced this spot because they wanted to show the absurdity of this man’s claims. But in watching the clip, I am much more convinced that CNN wants to portray this as a “fair and balanced” exploration of the issues. I suppose I should be grateful that CNN included the fact that he’s unlicensed, even though it seemed to have been glided over ever so quickly. But if Cohen’s next door neighbour had a sidewalk lemonade stand with a sign saying that drinking one full glass could cure homosexuality, would CNN have broadcast that? I know it’s fashionable in some circles to bash science, but Cohen’s ‘treatment’ is not a whit more valid than the lemonade claim. As an unlicensed therapist, I assume that NO medical insurance will pay for his ‘treatment,’ so the REAL story here is how desparate these individuals must be to pay out of their own pocket because some people think that their sexual attraction is disordered. How very sad, and how utterly deplorable of CNN.

Ed N Sted @ 105:

No worries.

Figgered it were just an innocent oversight (easy to do; I is done it plenty), so it warn’t a correx so much as a invitation for ‘nuther look-see.

(Sometimes we can’t see the face a Mt. Lui on account of we is standing onnit ‘n alla that rot.)

Usedta be even more confuserererering over at digby’s b/c him ‘n tristero didn’t usedta give a body a byline till the very end; the under-title byline is helped that point of disorder out immensely.

GW Clusterfuck is the Rodney Dangerfield of US Presidents. He gets no respect.

Recent polls show that he is now the worst president in the history of the republic. But how is that- he sets new records daily!

GW Clusterfuck has erased the surplus and now enjoys the biggest deficit in history- both budget and trade- that’s TWO deficits he owns the record for.

And this war in Iraq- most people think of it as kind of a crappy little war- but LOOK. He’s getting on the record books there too!

He’s now killed more american troops than were lost in his daddy’s crappy little war,, the spanish american war, the Mexican War, AND the War of 1812 that we used to study so much about. In fact- Clusterfuck’s crappy little war is now a solid number seven in terms of casualties for all US wars in history! He’s got a ways to go to take sixth place- the revolutionary war which killed 4,435- but he’s VERY capable of it. Now wouldn’t that be something nice to put in your trophy case?=

Right along with “dumbest war ever fought by an american president”.

Dan DiRito 105,
Excellent deduction. Marriage ammendement to fire up the base. Get the priests and pastors working the congregation hard for the rethugs again (they are free agenda pushers and they love W’s faith based initiative – free money from big gubmint). Remind the flock(s)of the big prize. A crushing right wing theocracy in the USA – Yay!

re: #90
rwcole says:
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:47 pm

So I take it no frogs are marching today? Shit!

i asked all you all — and got no responce — on wednesday if anybody knows when FITZs current GJ ends. i think that he is gonna do as he did with scotter and wait till the last day of the GJ to give turdblossom his skidmarks . . .

sure: i got ignored last time but . . . i am patient. SO PAY ATTNETION TO ME!!! ;-P

San Diego Union reporting that a gooper now running for congress is a bigamist- and that he got about a hundred years behind in his child support payments to some of his wives. So what platform is he running on? FAMILY VALUES of course.

Emptypockets at The Next Hurrah has an article up
right now about a gay marriage case where the judge wants a study to find out if kids raied by straight parents turned out better than kids raied by gay parents, There is more to the article. here’s the link.

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/

I think that the GJ that Fitz is now using has the normal 18 month life. It began just after the other one expired- so I guess it will last about another year. No issue there at this time.

Ppirt – Someone did answer you – assuming the new GJ was seated around the time the one that indicted Scooter expired, then it would have 18 months (and can extended if they need to) from then.

I wan’t the one who responded. But you owe someone an apology. Go recheck the thread.

s s s damn thing sticks. Sorry for the typo’s.

I thought it was now pretty well settled that gay folks have something wrong with their genes. Thus, we shouldn’t “blame” them…they can’t help it.
Ghostman

sorry . .

. . . i kenw bettter . . . just feeling uppity!

thankx all!

Yoohoo, rw, didja take them gooper-goffers’ money this morning? Did their ball-flight have lots of LOFT*?

Now for some ordure in the court:

Woman Ordered To Change Anti-Bush Shirt Before Sentencing
Protestor Convicted Of Felony Assault Against Police Officers
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/9312729/detail.html

*lack of fucking talent

How insane that this is coming up to coincide with Gay Pride Week? They are hopeless.

Thanks xyz for your “All Deliberate Speed”
remark about Fitzy…
You are so right, but I have Fitzyangstis
Syndrome (FITS) and will be seeing my doc soon…

Bay State Liberal

I thought the new Grand Jury was already seated when Fitz decided to use them after the other one expired.

Bustedknuckles @#119

Sticky keyboard? Stay off the http://www.hotbabes websites. (werks for me!)

Cujo @ 87

I’m not sure why the ‘logic’ of that ‘excerpted paragraph’ was broken, it certainly wasn’t presented as a complete and succinct logical argument.

It seemed relevant to a discussion on media pandering to present some views on media/journalism problems.

I was interested in presenting the idea that in this age of blogs and transparent subjective reporting, and MSM media lapdog-ish reporting, its actually pretty clear that the more openly opinionated mainstream material seems most influential, and that the ‘pretence of objectivity’ is appalling to a population whose ‘media literacy’ is growing. ie. The blogosphere, the author’s blog itself an indication of that.

The comment posted beneath that was a contrary position, namely that is ‘objectivity’ that is broken.

The reference to the write-up on Operation Mockingbird was an illustration of government propaganda collusion with ‘mainstream’ media operations.

Mr. Show nailed these “conversions” beautifully. The character played by David Cross kept having joyful relapses into “homo-sinuality”.

For CNN to give this any serious discussion is the real crime.

RE: Prior thread

Crack #1 (posted in segments because of ‘Servor Error’)

What kinda ,crack smack you bin smokin’?

FYI: For anyone wanting to tweak their tin-foil hat on the allegations (such a malleable term!) that the War on Drugs is something more than what it appears-
a good background on this issue can be found here.

#128
Not the blame.
it’s from spewing MT.Dew all over from the witty snark served up here on a regular basis.

from Ghostman ” I thought it was now pretty well settled that gay folks have something wrong with their genes. Thus, we shouldn’t “blame” them%u2026they can’t help it.“

My genes are about as wrong as somebody with red hair or somebody over 7 feet tall…

Gayness is like left-handedness: while it’s not common, it’s hardly wrong !

Crack #2

This would confirm historical experience by Mr. Orwell here (that’s a history British biographers don’t seem to expand on) making one expect a tsunamis of heroin is imminent.

I was out one time with a friend, while having a drink at the bar, I looked up to the TV-Set looming above the patrons, some CNN talking head was spewing nonsense lost in the general babble, while war cinema played in the background. The caption underneath the commentator…

CNN: The Fog of War

I nearly fell off my stool.

So here we are, only a few days after Bush expresses chagrin over the ‘reports’ of Haditha, and word is leaking out about yet another U.S. military mass execution of Iraqi’s, and whats CNN playing up, gay conversion issues.

Fog of War indeed!

this cartoon sums up my philosphy these days
http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2006/05/29/

Deborah Fayerick has always struck me as a decent and principled journalist so perhaps we should all contact her to get her to do some follow-up stories on how this form of “therapy” is not only not effective, but actually dangerous. This time she should talk to real, licensed therapists, and not to hacks and quacks like this joker.

Some people may recall that back when she worked at New York City 24 hour cable news station NY1, Fayerick did a series of award-winning stories on a gay man who was dying from AIDS. I can’t imagine that she’d be willing to leave this story on this note if enough viewers asked her to show the other, honest side of the story.

I read the RS article by RFKJr., read Janes post, Tristero’s post, visited freeperville and put up a post of my own. Too dense to understand the whole “trackback” thingy tho.

All this sanctimonious winger straight-sex crap is just so nuts. Way back in the 70’s I had a friend who’s college job was working in a photo lab in the middle of Ohio. He kept a scrapbook, and being an artist of sorts, he kept pix that showed the naughty pix in context…the wholesome family party picture contrasting the picture of the same middle-American mom tied up in the basement with her husband with the whip…everbody smiling for the camera…and so on. Whatever your imagination can conjure, it was going on in 70’s Ohio by the good Christian folks next door, and they were taking pictures.

*ilson @ 58 –

topping two gay Mounties

Be careful about scraping the bottom of the barrel with puns like that . . .

New thread

RFK Jr coming up on le loup-garou on CNN this hour.

Crack # 3

A recent news article here eerily suggests an odd linkage to a certain secret society and their minions. [snip] Each bag contained a single hit of heroin, or a quarter of a gram. Each sells for about $10. Its brand name – an individual stamp drug dealers use on the heroin they sell – in this case was “Skull.”

“Just like you’d go into a store and buy a Hershey’s bar or a Snickers bar, certain people like Skull, 9-1-1, Eagles, Death or Homicide,” the spokesman said

Makes you appreciate the resonant genius of the screenplay for the movie Batman Begins even more so for the story’s masterful weaving of Terror and Drugs as a covert and intentional weapon of mass destruction targeting civilization…but that was just a movie.
~

Angie – Even if it were already seated, you would have to assume that Fitz took the case to a relative fresh one. He is considered a smart prosecutor after all.

I propose going a step further in this homophobic, so-called ‘therapy’. Why not have sex with your unlicensed same-sex (and attractive) counselor as a means of ‘getting it COMPLETELY out of your system.’ This may take repeated applications, over several years, but miracle cures sometimes take a little effort and willingness. Therapists will have to be skilled in homosexuality in order to have any credibility in offering this broader therapy.

All kidding aside, cures for diseases that are created in the minds of the ‘healers’ NEVER TRULY WORK because there isn’t anything to heal outside of the projections of erroneous beliefs (in non-truth AS Truth) that start the ball.

I’d venture to say that those who see sin, danger and sickness everywhere are the ones who need healing. They need to examine their projections on the world and begin owning and healing them.

I recognize that this is a pretty sophisticated expectation of those who swallow religious dogmas without the benefit of original thought. But, even Jesus can help handle that, if asked sincerely.

132, wilson: well, I’ve always thought that science agrees that “hetero” actions are the natural order….from insects all the way thru humans.
Thus, whenever you have a gay human, they’ve got some fouled up chromosomes. It doesn’t make gay folks “bad” or anything like that…but it’s just identifying their chromosome makeup.
Ghostman

#143: …start the ball rolling, that is.

P J Evans @61:

Many moons ago, in my brief incarnation as a journalism student, we attended a speech by somebody or other from the local Hydro company. He was talking about the perception of hydro towers in residential areas and how overblown the fears were. To illustrate how low the fields were near the towers, he threw out an equation and some numbers. To me, it was immediately evident that given the equation he used, the numbers he gave us were out by a factor of ten. Nobody else picked up on this because none of the rest of them could do math in their heads.

People who were good at math went into engineering, not journalism. It’s highly unfortunate.

As to same-sex marriage in Canada, Steven Harper announced today(?) that he’s re-opening the issue and wants another vote.

Gads.

P at 116

I think you did not get an answer b/c none of us know the answer. Further, even if this GJ expires, he can simply represent to a sunsequent GJ. There pressure that existed with the Special GJ no longer exists.

The only pressure now is the stature of limitations. I think a long while back, Mary did an analysis of the various S of L periods that would come into play depending on the underlying charges.

Sorry if you felt like the tree that fell in the forest with no one to hear.

“It isn’t much of a tragedy if my posts get lost – there are plenty of them and they are pretty much worth what they cost”
A couple of weeks ago, another Mary commented and IIRC, you made the offhanded comment that maybe you should post as “mean Mary.” I recall a MoDo article about this. She said, because she’s a woman in the newspaper business, BushCo accuses her of being “unwomanly” when she criticizes the WH. Men don’t receive that kind of treatment. They can criticize the WH and still be gender secure.
I know I speak for a lot of firepups, I give the same weight to your comments as I do to Jane and Christy’s posts. I would also offer that it’s possible that Jane and Christy appreciate them too as a very trustworthy feedback loop. Information moves quickly and reading one of your trusted posts gives greater confidence to them and to us that no new fact has been inserted into the discussion that requires consideration. From that point of view, the weight that so many of us give to them, your posts are extremely economical.
OT, CS Lewis said something like, it’s not the new stuff, it’s remembering the old fundamentals. You are a very challenging thinker, but I always feel you drawing us back to the most profound truths of who we are as a people. Also, learning is all about repetition. Repeating things that YOU have said before strikes me as a good thing. Additionally FDL is growing exponentially, so a lot of people haven’t read your stuff before. You can trust us to let you know, if we think you’ve become repetitive. I don’t think it will happen.
OT, a lot of your outrage has been about torture. It’s an easy topic to run away from, but you haven’t. I don’t go over to Swopa as much as I used to, because it’s too depressing about Iraq. (That’s my problem). IMO, like the great prophets of the Judaeo Xtian tradition, you, Mary, bring us back to the painful demands of ethical behavior that are leaders have so thoroughly run away from. You do it gently, often with subtle humor.
My hope is that FDL will continue to be a place where you feel welcome and enjoy posting. I firmly believe your posts make Jane’s Christy’s, Pach’s, … jobs easier.
FWIW, a lot of us comment, you post.

I can speak for Jane and Christy:

We read your comments and thrive on them. You give us tips, ideas, perspectives, feedback, correction. . . Our community is the envy of the liberal blogosphere for its intelligence, activism and positive spirit. Please, by all means, jump in: we need you and rely on you all!

Sophist @ 1:27 pm (#130) – The post hoc, ergo procter hoc reasoning was right there in the part of the story you quoted. No need to go further.

Never make a blonde blush. It’s all blotchy and bright and icky. I have to admit – it’s my outlet. It makes me a bit nervous that any of it is read as more than venting. Thank you very sincerely John.

SteveClark at 9

You might think guilting people would work, but my ex-husband ticked off more “potentially former” Bush supporters by saying exactly that. “Blood is on YOUR hands if you voted for Bush!” He looked like a jerk saying it, and I saw people shut down and stop listening. Blood is on all of our hands for something or other, anyway.

It’d smack too much of self-righteousness and would kill a thoughtful exchange of ideas. I tell you, I had to clean up after the ex over and over as I campaigned for Kerry. To a person, people started to defend themselves, and then Bush, when he hit them with the murder charges. Let’s not use that one! I promise you it will have the wrong effect!

BTW, the Daily Show segment with Rob Corddry (I think)interviewing the flaming, “formerly” gay guy was FREAKING HILARIOUS and pretty much said all that needs to be said about the so-called psychological cure!

Oh, and another thing . . . I was reading “People” in the hair salon, and there was an article about the former governor of NJ–you know, the one who had to resign because he was gay? He grew up totally denying who he was, was married twice, all the while having multiple affairs and racy encounters. He himself said, having to deny that part of himself made him go way overboard in the other direction.

Now, he’s got a steady beau–they are in love, and he sounds SO much happier!

Now just imagine if he hadn’t been led to LIE all his life–how many fewer lives might he have ruined?

It’s the LYING and denying the truth that is the real crime.

Of course, the Bushites don’t believe this!

Mary,

What John Said. And John…you’re no slouch, yerself.

You say Sharia – I say Gilead, let’s call the hole thing off. And to think I was gay until I saw Jane one day!

Ghostman
No. It’s not genetic. And it wouldn’t be important at all if we had a civilized society.

I tried to watch Brokeback Mountain with my wife, but learned, to my surprise, I cannot stomach the frank portrayal on the screen of men having a sexual, loving, gay relationship. It just went against my grain and overwhelmed me, and I had to leave and get away from it.
I don’t think that makes me an intolerant bigoted right wing repugnaut. I’ve tried to understand my revulsion at the concept and really, it is because there is no procreation taking place in gay relations..Homosexuality was an abomination, an aborting of man’s natural creative process in the bible, not without some good reason. Maybe keeping it in the closet was the smart thing to do. I am not going to go and protest with hatemongering fundamentalists like Fred Phelps, but I think if I can feel their revulsion so sharply, I can understand them better.

I’m a big gay hairy muscleguy – and I’ve found that a lot of guys have had turbulent pasts and really just want to be held safe in strong arms all night long – a service I’m happy to provide because that’s something that’s denied to many men for whatever reason. Funny thing is, though, in the morning they feel a lot better, but they’re all still gay.

vox– how many children have you sired? I do understand that this is the reason some give for coupling, but it is not the only reason, is it?

My ex-husband was gay. I met him in high school and we dated all through college and were married for 12 years before I found out. Of course, once he admitted that he was “bi-sexual” I began to put two and two together and things began to make sense. Since I was the only woman he ever slept with, I concluded he was gay. I’ve since remarried, but he never has. He was engaged to some poor woman, who, I’m sure, didn’t know, but he broke it off. He would show up at our daughter’s sports events with his “guy” friends. He’s still unmarried and very unhappy. He attends some evangelical Christian church and pretends that they can shake it out of him. He believes that he can change his ways. But I know that he is gay, period the end. I don’t have any animosity towards him — I just wish he would come out of the closet and admit it to eveyone else. He would be so much happier. Even my daughter knows — none of us talk about it though. I suspect his father had the same issue. Why can’t people just be who they are? It’s okay!

All I could think of when I read the part about the “unlicensed therapist” was:

Announcer: Stuart Smalley is a caring nurturer, a member of several twelve-step programs, but not a licensed therapist.

Someone needs to tell these folks that it’s easier to put on slippers than it is to carpet the entire world.

For those who support ex-gay therapy: Would you want your daughter to marry an ex-gay? If not, why not? Here’s where the confidence in their “therapy” really shows.