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For anyone who has ever wanted to explore the mindset of the truly drunk on kool-aid set, and survive it through intensive laugh therapy, this is your book. I have giggled my way through every, single chapter, all the while wondering why more folks in the political realm don’t use the very effective tools of ridicule, snark and satire more to their advantage on the progressive side of the fence.
I am thrilled to announce that Sam Seder and Stephen Sherrill of Air America’s Majority Report will be joining us in the FDL Book Salon for a discussion of their hilarious, yet pointed, analysis of how America in the era of George Bush is completely f@#^&* up beyond all recognition.
The upcoming schedule for the FDL Book Salon is as follows:
June 4: How Would a Patriot Act? Defending American Values from a President Run Amok by Glenn Greenwald, who will be joining the chat on June 4
June 11: Special TBA
June 18 & 25: Lapdogs: How the Press Rolled Over for Bush
by Eric Boehlert, who will join us on June 25
July 2 & 9: F.U.B.A.R. : America’s Right-Wing Nightmare
For those of you who will be reading FUBAR, be sure not to miss "Spongebob Satanpants and Lenny the Cross-Dressing Shark." You can’t be too vigilant with your parenting and I, for one, would like the mystery as to whether Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and the Elf-Who-Would-Be-A-Dentist had something going on the side. That flaming red nose has always been a little…swishy…in my mind. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that…)
And don’t say that you haven’t been warned to take beverage precautions while reading this. Who knew you could have this much fun being pissed at the state of your nation? I’m expecting a very lively discussion about the serious underlying issues that Sam and Stephen discuss in FUBAR — but I’m also hoping that we will have a little fun along the way.
UPDATE: Forgot to add this: the official F.U.B.A.R. website can be found here, and it includes some info about Sam and Stephen, including book tour details. And for your listening pleasure, Sam and Stephen have put up audios of the phone calls that Sam made for the book, including my fave about Lenny the Shark. Mwahahahaha.
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Robert Kennedy Jr. !!!
Election reform!
Fitz
Whew!!!! when I read the title of your article RH, I was worried!!! Now I’m not!
Colbert!
Just finished reading the RS Kennedy article. So Kerry has introduced election reform legislation, but the Dems won’t take action on it because . . . big surprise . . . they’re afraid. Afraid the Republicans might take those bills away from them and turn them into something nasty!
Have these people no brains or spines? Do they not understand the concept of using everything they do, successful or not, to create a contrast between the parties? No, they’re just hanging out, waiting for November, hoping that by some miracle they’ll be swept back into power.
Never mind the concept of actually standing up for something, giving people something to vote for – no, they’re counting on disgust with the GOP to do the job for them. Do they not understand that no matter how disgusted the public is, it is still not inclined to vote for their spineless, wimpy selves because they won’t stand up?
Gaaah. I know this is old for everyone here, but I just had to vent.
President Albert Gore !
President John Kerry !
OT, Keith Olbermann was PISSED tonight as he described how Bill O’Reilly falsely accused some WWII American veterans of war crimes (when in fact, they were the victims). I recommend viewing it when you can.
The political snark is a grand American tradition. Twain, Russell (was my weekly must watch when he was on) and Stewart.
Somehow we got a notion of empire when truth be told, we are a country of farmers who occasionally toss down our pitchforks, say “that ain’t right!” and march off to war.
And its the open environment for innovation (think airplane) and a generally peaceful society that makes for a cultural which can turn on a dime when something truly egregious occurs. And I’m not talking about some guys in a cave without a single boat or plane. Man, its so beneath us.
Anyway… thanks Christie.
VG at 4 — hehehehe Sorry — I couldn’t help myself with the title. It was just too perfect an opportunity with this book.
Olberman nailed O’Reilly tonight. Awesome.
We laugh to keep from screaming and throwing things. Or at least I do.
RH/CHS- well, it certainly got my attention! My best case imaginary scenario was that GG couldn’t appear bec. of being overwhelmed on account of his book being on the NYT bestseller list! Your scenario is much better.
laffter is the best cure. thankee fer reckomendin thisn. i woodnt wonta miss it.
Hope you can stop by, Buddy Don. You know we always love having you ;)
buddy don — yer always welcome in these here parts. Hope you enjoy the giggles as much as I did! :)
T Rex,
Perhaps it’s time to stop laughing and START throwing things.
OT-
TRex- I screwed up and didn’t see your dim sum thingy before. If I go to yKOS I will not be in town. If I don’t, consolation much needed.
Redd, did you get my email?
VG — If you do not come to YK *I* am the one that is going to need consolation.
Dover at 19 — I didn’t yet. But AOL e-mail has been weird today with lots of hiccups (they had some sort of software glitch or something), so it may be on the way. You might want to try and re-send just in case. ReddHedd at aol dot com.
EPU’d
You may be right rw. These, however, strike me as unplanned “spree killings,” because women and children are involved.
Sara over at tnh had a great post, “Sorting out the Generals.”
General George C. Marshall, “pressured Pershing to do what became the “Hunt Report” – the history of American Military Occupation 1775 -1922.”
Marshall’s insight, followed after VE and VJ days in WWII, was to not use forces for “occupation” that had been “blooded” during the war. Occupation units hadn’t take any casualties.
Rumsfeld, Bush, Rove, are forgetting what Marshall knew back in 1922 from the Hunt Report.
Now Mrs. Smith, that’s two (2) F-Bombs in one week ! – we really need to think about getting you away from all that rabble in the Fever Swamp
6, leslie: yep, I fully agree. Making a stand is always important, even if you get your ass shot off. (in Texas, the brave Men of the Alamo are still revered even though they all died).
I still read that the Senate wants to schedule gay marriage and flag burning stuff sometime this Summer/Fall. While I don’t at this time, really give a crap about gay marriage…I think if this comes up on the Senate floor EVERY Democrat ought to take the podium for 30 seconds and loudly dissent at this waste of Senate time. If you had Democrats STANDING IN LINE to speak, I bet it would make all the TV news. Same goes for flag burning…if the law permitted, I’d just as soon punch out some jerk who burns the flag…but it seems to be acceptable political protest. And, it too is a HUGE waste of Senate time.
Stand up and protest Democrats…get your nose bloddied if need be….but a fighter always does better than someone who snivels.
Ghostman
Oh, Christy, thanks! I was hoping you would choose FUBAR – I skimmed it at the bookstore, and found it hilarious, too, along with the nodding-head, yes, yes, yes! reaction. And it’s scheduled for July, so I may be able to afford to buy it in time.
BTW, my B&N order – How Would a Patriot Act, came in and I picked it up today. No chance yet to READ it (lol), but hopefully I will get it done by Sunday.
FUBAR, and HWAPA – you’re the best!
Excellent. I just finished “Sweet Jesus, I Hate Bill O’Reilly” so I’m looking for another book.
ReddHedd #21 — just resent. subject:Haditha
Thanks again.
TRex 12, no, actually, I’m good with screaming and throwing things. It’s better than the alternative.
Oh Jane!!! What a nice thing to say! But both you and RH will be totally totally swamped with fans and well-wishers and nabobs, I figure that if I get to wave from across the room, that would be enough. You and RH are going to be in the spotlight for your hard work and your wonderful writing, and savvy, etc. etc. and I think you should just look forward to celebrating that, and soaking it in, because it is so much deserved!
Jane, the Capa pic two threads ago was positively haunting. It’s from the Spanish Civil War, (1936) which Hitler and Mussolini used as a training ground. All the experts are justifiably concerned that Iraq may simply be the ”training ground.”
Coul you guys fix your RSS feed? It has gone eratic these last couple days, and so the Firefox bookmarks to the feed don’t work. NO workee, NO upadtee headlinees, NO readee.
John Casper 30 — I’m a big Capa fan and have used his photos before. They are absolutely haunting.
au contraire, the RSS feeds from FDL for Sage in Firefox have started working correctly in the last couple of days after having been faulty for a week or more …
Olbermann’s e-mail…. countdown@msnbc
The servers are backed-up keep trying.
to get your RSS feed working again correctly in Firefox, I’d suggest deleting your current FDL bookmark in Sage and searching again for the RSS on the FDL homepage to create a new, fresh, working bookmark…
*ilson- I have no clue about RSS feeds, but maybe it’s time I did get a clue. I use Firefox- but on a PC- do I need to download something extra? Are your “sage” instructions specific for Mac?
VG, just click on the orange icon in the URL bar. The RSS feeds will show up in your bookmarks. Upgrade your Firefox if the icon isn’t there.
patience – What *ilson46201 said. Standard RSS reader in Firefox is good for me. Last week, not so much.
OK, it’s long. Sorry.
One of the myths about our country is that it is a democracy and that we have a representative form of government. There are several reasons to think that this is not the case.
The first of these is the electoral college. This is a generally recognized anachronism yet even after the debacle of the 2000 Presidential election where the result was determined not by the voters but despite them by the electoral college and ultimately by the Supreme Court no attempt serious or otherwise has been made to eliminate it.
A second reason is the makeup of the states that form these United States. Some are huge like California and New York. Some are geographically tiny like Rhode Island or empty like Wyoming. Regardless, they each have 2 and only 2 Senators. You might ask why Rhode Island and not the Boston suburbs receives this distinction. It is an accident of history but should such accidents be allowed to have such a disproportionate voice in our government? Well at least Rhode Island has more people than Wyoming but what about Wyoming? Why should Wyoming with a population of 493,782 as of the 2000 census have the same number of Senators as California with a population of 33,871,648? That’s a ratio of more than 68 to 1. Is this really representative government or a throwback to the “rotten bouroughs” of the English Parliament?
A third reason is gerrymandering. This can’t be done with Senatorial seats but is a prime reason for the job security that accompanies incumbency in the House of Representatives. Partisan drawing of districts produces partisan and undemocratic districts. Gerrymandering allows the charade of one man one vote without actually having to abide by the results of such a system.
A fourth reason is the machinery of the voting process itself. This is entrusted to local and state jurisdiction with no effective oversight. It is a disorganized, nonsecure, partisan piecemeal system. Yes, we do all vote on the same day but it’s a Tuesday, a weekday which depresses turnout. Who gets registered, how difficult the registration process is, how long you stay registered, information about where and when to vote, the difficulty of the voting itself, wait time, challenges, “provisional voting”, security and dependability of the voting machine, a paper trail, the vote counting itself, all these things are subject to interference, misuse, and abuse and consequently are interfered with, misused, and abused.
The fifth reason is the preeminent place and power of money in American politics. Politicians incidentally represent their constituents. They truly represent the people and corporations that pay for their campaigns and keep them in office. We are a government of the money, by the money, for the money.
The sixth reason is the two party system. It creates a duopoly. Other interests and groups need not apply. Getting on a state ballot as a “third” party is difficult and expensive. Getting on a national ballot is prohibitively so. There is little possibility of “growing” a party. Rather a party must burst on the scene fully formed. This last usually happens around a specific issue or person and lasts in any meaningful way for about one election cycle. By the second, it is either already gone or on its way to oblivion or irrelevance. The result is a debasement and trivialization of issues. Parties do have stands on many things. They just seldom have any intention of acting on any of them or informing the electorate in advance of what they intend to do. Even when they do, voters seldom believe them.
The seventh is the news media which reports campaigns as horse races with only accidental coverage of issues, records, or positions. Little fact checking is done and none of it timely. No accountability is demanded of candidates who lie, distort, dissemble, or otherwise run vacuous campaigns. It usually works like this. The media covers the horse race. After the election, they do a brief mea culpa. Some intern is sent to the archives where he/she finds that by golly someone did mention candidate X’s position on whatever. This is followed by a retraction of the mea culpa and some self congratulatory back slapping.
The eighth is the American voter who feels no duty or responsibility to learn about anything, not the issues, the candidates, and not the political climate or the possible repercussions of their decisions. By contrast, Russian roulette is less risky.
I am sure there are other reasons that you can come up with as well. The point is we are not the shining city on the hill and we are not even trying to be. Bush may want to spread democracy throughout the world but we really need to start at home. We have an ad hoc not a representative government. We can change to have our government reflect our principles or we can stick with its historical oddities and our own shortcomings. For what it’s worth, I bet the Romans thought their Republic for all its contradictions was the niftiest thing going –even as it was collapsing. Are we really any different?
U.S. Says Troops Fired at Crowd In Afghan Capital
By Pamela Constable
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, June 1, 2006; Page A12
“KABUL, Afghanistan, May 31 — U.S. military officials acknowledged Wednesday that American troops had fired at an angry mob that surrounded the scene of a traffic accident in the Afghan capital Monday morning. Officials previously had said the troops fired only into the air….”
I guess my last comment must have been immoderate since it’s awaiting moderation.
“Sage” is the name of the free RSS reader in Firefox in Windows (maybe Mac too). I only discovered the utility and simplicity of RSS several months ago and it’s fantastic. I used to check 30 websites repeatedly daily : lots of clicking. With Sage, I simply click one button and automagically all the sites are checked and the sites with new material are highlighted. I click on that to see a precis of the new story. If it’s worth reading, I just click on it and it goes to the full article.
Way cool…easy to use…free…and modern! au courant too!
You probably already have Sage installed : look under tools on the menu bar – its the first item on the dropdown list. Click on it and you’ll have a vertical window displayed. Go to the homepage of FDL. Click on the “magnifying glass icon” and a window will pop up displaying the different feeds: choose the feed with the highest number. The site name will appear in the vertical box. Doubleclick on the sitename and the stories will appear in boxes in your main window.
Accumulate several sites. By clicking on the “rotary icon” you will get Sage to search all the sites for new articles. If the site is highlighted: Bingo! something new to read! Doubleclick to see the precis. Click on the headline to go to the site and read the full story.
Never bet against Vegas bookmakers having their shit straight — unless Bush is running for president as an incumbent.
(Voter suppression and the Supreme Court will make-do if Bush is a challenger, thank you very much.)
Maybe next time Vegas’ll get a heads-up memo from the RNC?
…………..
A blast from the past: Sportscaster Jim Lampley, 5.10.05, in the Huffington Post, w/a little anecdotal evidence of foul-play
What is old is made new again.
Whee!
Sec. of Defense Dick Cheney, April 1991
“Once you’ve got Baghdad, it’s not clear what you do with it. It’s not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that’s currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists? How much credibility is that government going to have if it’s set up by the United States military when it’s there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave?”
Hugh, it’s just the troll software.
Crap, watching Oberman and saw Jr. declare “there are high standards”. Way up there apparently with not murdering children. Watch the video.
He was so righteous. We’re fucked.
“Bush pledges to punish marines found guilty over Iraqi civilian massacre”
“If somebody did leak classified information, I’d like to know it, and we’ll take the appropriate action.”
OT – Al Franken is on Scarborough. Sounds totally shitfaced.
Excuse me if I’m wrong, but it was painful to watch.
I know he’s wrestled with is in the past (as have I and many), praying I’m wrong, and if right, for a 12th step.
Good stuff, Hugh. You are a smart and thoughtful thinkerer. The way it is – is how you said it. And its the way the thugs like it.
The electoral college should be abolished.
VG-
If you don’t go to YKos, then my brother and I will happily take you out for dim sum, but frankly, I hope you get to go. Take lots of pictures!
Whoops, gotta go start my show!
On MSNBC breaking news a bit ago…
An investigation is underway of an Iraqi civilian that was shot and killed by a US Marine after allegedly being yanked out of his house in April. This is in addition to the 11 civilians killed in March being investigated and 24 in Haditha last November.
Sheesh!
Maybe the Joint Chiefs finally figured out, the best way to “get the hell out of there,” was to quit squashing the truth.
Anderson Cooper on CNN lead with the Iraqi massacreS stories…”three major investigations” ! ! !
OT (via freepers and Operation Rescue) –
“The Oglala Sioux tribal council has matched the South Dakota Legislature and voted to ban all abortions on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.” [link]
Cozumel-
I think by now we have figured out that for every atrocity we hear about, there are a dozen that have been under-reported or not reported at all. Bush was making noise about our “culture of transparency” today, but tell that to the people who Abu Gonzales is trying to prosecute for blowing the whistle on US-run secret prisons and the NSA wiretapping program.
Our political culture is as transparent as a two-way mirror. They can look in at us, but we can’t look back at them.
“Our political culture is as transparent as a two-way mirror.”
LMAO.
Read the Kennedy article and feel heartsick. I believe it, I know it, and the hubris of Blackwell running for Gov is stunning.
re: the military, the murders, I thought this was a good article from a former West Pointer speaking directly to Bush.
A little too freaked out to stay tonight, why didn’t the Dems stand up for us, not one of them stood up for us. Not one.
Sorry:
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/ryan310506.html
TRex,
“I think by now we have figured out that for every atrocity we hear about, there are a dozen that have been under-reported or not reported at all.”
And covered up, no doubt. And like the car thief that gets caught, “that was the first car I stole”. Sure it was, rigggght.
TRex and Cozumel–
Sadly, I believe you are right.
I have no 1st amendment rights left…not sure what is still protected by the US CONST…….send help…..FITZ…..SPITZ…….
Posted before reading all above:
Why don’t we use ridicule, satire and snark? Because Repugs are too stupid to understand they are being ridiculed and satired, that’s why.
Massacres like suicide, drug use, etc. stem from a breakdown in troop discipline and a loss of esprit de corps which are themselves manifestations of a bankrupt policy and a rotten mission.
Nice catch JWR, but boy is that a kick in the crotch.
My guess is the SD legislature threatened the tribal council with enforcement of alcohol related laws or some such pressure tactic.
The Ogalla Sioux (along with the Unkpappa Sioux and the Cheyenne) kicked the hell out of Custer at the Little Big Horn in 1876. Wounded Knee in 1890 was the Army’s payback.
Anybody from South Dakota who has the inside skinny?
itwasntme,
It’s true what you say. Many republicans like Colbert because they think he’s serious. They actually identify with his character and take it in hook, line, & sinker. No, it will take more than humor to dislodge the illegitimate squatters in the WH I’m afraid.
Zenn-
Take a deep breath, angel. The very fact that we are discussing these things and hauling them out into the light is a sign of progress. Take heart. And in the meantime, take it to God. Your higher power can help transform your outrage and disgust into the strength you need to fight for the greater good.
I have an idea for everyone here. Form a campaign committee. Senate Leader Frist did. It broke the law. Frist didn’t break the law- the committee did. It got fined $11,000. Frist got fined nothing. The campaign committee won’t go to jail- neither will Frist.
It’s a gooper way of avoiding personal responsibility. Why shouldn’t it apply to us all?
Inna war of aggression (a country like ours can call itself “liberators” all it wants, but it ain’t how the occupied see us, specially when we resort to torture to find out why there’s an insurgency):
A protracted military occupation not only defiles the occupied, it debases the occupier as well.
“Hearts and minds” seems so far away, don’t it?
Events like My Lai in Vietnam and Haditha in Iraq don’t just sort of happen, they happen b/c human beings snap when placed under too much strain.
They happen b/c political and moral cowards like those found in the Bush administration and its apologists in the establishment media expect a helluva lot more outta 22-year-olds than these contemptible gasbags and charlatans expect outta themselves.
They happen b/c our politicians are deluding themselves into believing the “transformational” horseshit about the military remaking the Middle East when it’s
Don’t get me wrong. I ain’t excusing war crimes. Not at all.
I’m saying events like Haditha are the inevitable result of the refusal to honestly examine what’s going on and admit the truth to ourselves.
They are the canary inna coal mine, symptomatic (as horrific as that is) of a much deeper problem: a bankrupt counterproductive failed “mission”.
Our leadership class is got a bad case of the soul-rots here in ‘Murica.
And the fish, as they say, rots at the head.
Now we’ve got four (or so- these things have a way of growing who were shot by american troops is afghanistan. Anyone see a pattern here?
The insurgency in Iraq really is in its last throes. It’s going to start calling itself “The Iraqi Army.”
With the prosecution of these Marines, the guerillas will be able to get closer to formations, particularly if the rules of engagement tighten up and company commanders are put on the hook. The guerilla unit size has increased from 2-3 as of 2 years ago to 10-15 now. So, yeah, the insurgency is in its last throes, is about to shuffle off its chrysalis and morph into ‘Mothra.’
Howzabout the book club start covering some not-quite-preaching-to-the-choir books? Not that I’m participating or anything, but I think it’s important to expose yourself to a variety of viewpoints and the lefty blogosphere has been feeling a little claustrophobic lately.
Just a thought!
Just a heads-up, kids, I am playing one of my all-time favorite pieces, tonight, the “Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis” by Ralph Vaughan-Williams, coming up at about 10:40 or so.
Take your non-Mozilla browser here:
http://www.wuga.org/listen_online.html
And you can join me. Show goes for another hour and a half until midnight eastern. The voice isn’t so great tonight. I think I swallowed too much sea-water yesterday when I had a little mishap in the surf.
The americans in Iraq are trying to keep people from setting off bombs. How they gonna do that? They know that the bombers are everywhere- all around em- but they don’t know who they are. They figure that the Iraqis they see on the street know who they are- but won’t say. That makes the Iraqis psychologically the enemy. So shoot the fuck out of em!
John Casper – I agree. There’s probably much more going on here than a violation of fund raising statutes.
You can read the Operation Rescue statement here, but it’s nothing more than you’d expect.
the story is changing in Kabul. Originally the US General reported that the US troops had only fired warning shots into the air above the crowd. Now he admits bullets were indeed fired into the Afghans , causing the civilian deaths…
It comes from the demonization of people as done by bushco and the conflation of lies told to the military and the country. They were told they were fighting to protect the US and that the people over there were terrorists and that it was better to fight them over there than here. They were told this is a war unlike any other and torture is ok. Fallujah was ok.
Summarily executing the 2 sons of a dictator without any trial was ok, ’cause the CM and America cheered at home.
They did not know the language, the culture or the history. They went in to fight for an administration that lied, repeatedly. They had to find the ‘enemy’ and occupy. This is a disaster.
This killing people thing should come as no surprise. An army is an instrument of force- that is it’s only function. You can order em to go out and be social workers- but the won’t be any good at it. They solve problems by killing people. That’s their job.
When the only tool you have is a hammer- every problem looks like a nail.
73, rwcole: there’s 3 bad things swirling around in all the Haditha mess:
1. SOME of these locals DO have foreknowledge of IED’s, but sit on their hands and do nothing. This adds to the soldier’s frustration. HOWEVER….the solution when this is suspected is to arrest these people and hand them over for interrogation. The soldier MUST NOT become judge, jury, and executioner.
2. And, while some of these locals have foreknowledge, the locals themselves are in a bad spot. If they inform the military of an IED….in a few more days the insurgents return and execute these locals for being an informant. A BAD spot for the locals.
3. On the underbelly to this mess….the explosives are getting better and more powerful. Iranian folks are teaching the insurgents all about shaped charges. Very, very bad turn of events.
In summary…..we’re in a total mess over there.
Ghostman
Eventually we are going to find out what the real mission in Iraq is as communicated to the troops. It’s undoubtedly “pacification”. Anybody here old enough to remember what “pacification” is?
Sure puts a damper on the spreading democracy and freedom happy talk doesn’t it?
Elections don’t mean much when you are dead or wishing you were, you know.
Rwcole–
The increasing use of IEDs in populated areas indicates just how much support the guerillas have among Iraqis. The residents know where the bombs are if they’ve been placed near their houses, and they’re not running to tell the US command for a cash reward.
MarcLord @ 70 -
Somewhere in those definitions of success is the free-standing Iraq. But they are probably going to need a lot of humvees, planes, missiles to prtoect them from those who would come in and steal their oil, and probably some Snapple.
Where are they on the path of weapons consumerism?
eric 71 — “preaching to the choir?” How about “the informed scholarship of important liberal thinkers?” Is there some benefit to foregoing Rick Perlstein’s profound “Before the Storm” and reading, say, Bill O’Reilly or Michelle Malkin?
You’re really going to have to explain the benefits of that one a little better.
OT, but I don’t think the war is “going badly” for Bushco. It seems to me that they have intentionally set about creating an enduring chaos so that they might continue to milk the US treasury for all it’s worth and then some. This whole fiasco was designed in advance to be the biggest heist in the history of humankind. For all our talk about Bush’s failures, in this respect he has been succesful beyond his wildest dreams.
Ghostman- Yep- we’ve seen this pattern before. American troops come into a village and say: “If you co-operate with the Cong- you are the enemy and we’ll kill you.” The Cong show up the next day and say- “If you co-operate with the Yankees- we kill you”. Both sides then are forced to keep their word- and a lot of villagers end up dead.
It’s called the “fight for their hearts and minds”–by grabbin em by the balls.
allegedly a Zogby poll of US soldiers in Iraq found 90% thought there was a direct connection between Saddam and 9/11 — where the hell did so many of them get that mistaken idea? It seems to me the troops are being deliberately misinformed by the Pentagon to keep up “fighting spirit”. We see now where lies lead …
EDITED BY SITE OWNER
Blog whore some place else.
I posted this the other night in the wee hours. Jonathan Schwarz looks at some of Seymour Hersh’s earlier reporting wrt massacres:
How Many Hadithas?
yep, *ilson, that poll is never far from my thoughts.
If you are the commander and you want your troops to exert pressure on the civillian population by terrorizing them- it’s probably not necessary to give em direct orders to do it. They understand innuendo.
Greetings,
FYI-Some of the books FDL has mentioned are available as eBooks from Fictionwise.com http://www.fictionwise.com/ebo…..Books.htm/
85, rwcole: you nailed it on the head.
Ghostman
This killing people thing should come as no surprise. An army is an instrument of force- that is it’s only function.
Napoleon said, “You can do everything with a bayonet except sit on it.” Meaning, of course, that using armies to build peace and stability is like using a flame thrower to build fire safety.
If one studies the history of occupations- particularly successful ones- one will find a clear pattern of brutality.
The term “decimate”, as I recall, comes from the Roman habit of when one their people was killed by an “insurgent”- they killed one in ten of the population in the town or village- and the killings usually stopped.
Does anyone think that tactics for fighting an insurgency have changed since then? The insurgent’s weapons are stealth and anonymity- which leads to the only effective countermeasures- “We don’t really care which one of you did it- yer all gonna pay”!
TRex- great quote- and what an appropriate time to remember it. Kudos.
eric, I took some offense to your “preaching to the choir,” comment.
Now, I’m an adult, so I know that’s my problem.
Did you have some specific examples in mind of books that you’d like to be covered?
Which one of the books discussed so far in your opinion was more guilty of “preaching to the choir?”
eric, a lot of us rate books in terms of their logic, intelligibility, and coherence. Reading books that are illogical, unintelligible or incoherent, doesn’t really make much sense, although I guess that would be a “variety of viewpoints.”
You wrote: “the lefty blogosphere has been feeling a little too claustrophobic lately.”
Could you be a little more specific? Has there been too much about that old lefty “seperation of powers?”
rwcole @ 95 -
Thanks. Crystal Clear. And now I’m depressed.
What rwcole said at 7:52.
If you have your troops engaged in a classic anti-insurgency operation- you NEVER want the folks at home to know what they’re doing. Anti-insurgency is very dirty work.
OT
for JohnCasper,
Have you read this month’s Harper’s ? In the Notebook page, literary editor Ben Metcalf posits a question about targeted political violence and George Bush.
Whats your take on this?
Inquiring minds want to know.
imman, you around? ; )
heh, heh…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..earch=eric burdon
Yes and no.
When the climate in Iraq wasn’t as bloody and the insurgency hadn’t picked up steam yet (i.e. very early on, after the initial fighting was over), I think the military was much more disposed to showing restraint. A lotta military folks believed in “the mission” or what they thought was the mission.
(What is the mission, btw?)
But now that Iraq is simultaneously imploding and exploding in sectarian violence, seemingly no one can be trusted, and the military is much more on the razor’s edge and consequently much more trigger-happy.
I think your earlier post (No. 73, blunt as it is) is much closer to the reality today than the follow-up (cited above) IDing the military as (solely) a killing machine.
Team Bush have abandoned the military to play armed-referee in Iraq’s Civil War U. and Jihad Junior College free-for-all and the strain is really starting to show.
Evidently a coupla soldiers and scores of innocent civilians killed every single fucking day is an acceptable price to pay to protect the political vanity of our man-child-in-chief.
*lson 46201,
It’s hardly surprising when AFR is only playing Rush Limbaugh and the like to the troops. To allow them to hear anything other than right wing propoganda would undermine morale, right?
tryggth @82,
It’s a wonder to me that Sunnis haven’t gotten Stinger-style missiles in greater numbers, or even stockpiled them beforehand. If they had Stingers in any quantity, the helicopter perimeter would’ve effectively shrunk to the bases themselves; perhaps China refused to sell at the behest of the Shiites, who prefer to see the Sunnis bleed.
As for weapons consumerism, projecting tactical force is probably cheaper than it has ever been and greatly favors defense. A $10,000 wire-guided missile fired from a Toyota pickup can take out a $30 million plane and its crew–as can a 50-year old 12.7mm machine gun mounted in the same pickup. The only things keeping it together for the US military in Iraq are superior command and control and superb troop training and tactics. It’s not the ordnance being dropped from planes or the firepower unleashed by helicopters.
Commanders know pretty well how their troops are going to react to the situation they are in. If they do nothing to stop it- it’s desired.
Huckermill @ 103 -
If it wasn’t for that damn poll about 9/11-Saddam. You see, they posioned the kids before they went over (or on arrival).
On Jane, eric, and preaching to the choir: C’mon Jane, he didn’t suggest reading Malkin or O’Reilly. I think you would agree aren’t going to learn how to win any arguments with Republicans just talking among ourselves about how enlightened and informed we are and how wonderful the books our friends write are.
To the dude from the previous thread who wants to put a few million folks on the Mall. This September, baby! Be there!
peace,
jim
RFK Jr coming up on MSNBC in a couple of minutes.
I’m looking forward to giving everyone the opportunity to meet me at YKos! ;P
“Decimation was a form of extreme military discipline used by officers in the Roman Army to punish mutinous or cowardly soldiers. A cohort selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group cast lots, and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing. The remaining soldiers were given rations of barley instead of wheat and forced to sleep outside of the Roman encampment.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation
And now, let’s talk about YOU… what did you YOU think about my last movie?
Maybe not a couple of minutes (misleading tease by the host), but definately during the former bow tie hairdo’s show.
Cozumel – Junkie !!!
I can say that ’cause I just got back from a half hour of funny kitten videos – and topped it off with Hendrix/VooDoo Child @ Woodstock – my antidote to the day’s events
RW, Ghost, JC , Marc Lord and others – agree with what y’all are saying AND I want to know both the length of tours and the number of tours of the soldiers/marines involved.
VG #112
LOL!
Agreed.
But don’t think that explains what’s going on right now so much as it provides an initial pretext for the dehumanization of the war enemy — and lays the ground for the transferance of these perceptions from some Iraqis to all Iraqis.
The deliberate Saddam/9-11 conflations were even more pronounced and explicit in the military, course, and, as you cite, it’s a propaganda poison-pill of war.
But that granted, think most in the military made a distinction, initially, betwixt the government of Iraq and its people, specially after the initial fighting ended.
The soldiers were told by the president, their commanders and the press that they “liberated” the Iraqis, and, at the time, it seemed like they did. So why wouldn’t they be proud? Why wouldn’t they show restraint and allow democracy to bloom? Mission accomplished, right?
Problem was: those who lack foresight b/c of delusional arrogance or unconscionable stupidity (i.e. Team Bush; it’s not a 22-year-old soldier’s job to see into the political future, a-course) are certain to inflict their avoidable cruelties on those they ostensibly lead in their march of folly.
Alla sudden, when your buddies start dying and getting horribly crippled by IEDs, it’s damn awful easy to shit-can the whole “hearts and minds” bidness and start looking out for you and yours.
Suddenly, alla Iraqis get tarred w/the same brush of suspicion b/c you’re just a 22-year-old soldier and, no, you may not know who’s right or who’s wrong in this fubared clusterfuck you’ve found yourself in, but one thing you do know is you damn sure don’t wanna die in Iraq. Or see your buddies get killed.
And so the soldiers get restive, flinchy, scared, cynical, panicky, trigger-happy.
It ain’t pretty and if nothing changes, it’ll only get worse.
The military is being torn asunder by political cowardice at home. It’s pathetic.
jim preston (108) — to date the FDL Book Club has read an overview of progressive’s failures by left-to-center folks, a detailed book on the rise of Goldwater and the roots of Movement Conservatism, and what amounts to a whitepaper on the Constitution, the overreach of the Executive Office and failure of Congressional oversight by a non-partisan…
That’s a pretty broad range of books for anyone to complain we are navel-gazing.
Frankly, I don’t have time to read the crap that passes for contemporary literature from the right (ex. the justification for internment of persons based on race/ethnicity and perceived threat written by Malkin, a self-hating person of color with dual citizenship — I won’t have it in my house).
cbl,
“Cozumel – Junkie !!!”
Guilty as charged! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..arch=steve winwood
I am a huge Majority Report fan and I love the book. I am already through half the book but I did find a typo on page 24. If any of you have gotten that far, you should be able to pick it out.
AGH!!! I can’t believe I just had to listen to 20 minutes of F*cker Carlson’s obnoxious bilge!!!
I swear he’s worse than usual tonight because he’s NOT wearing his trademark bowtie; he’s probably gotten too much oxygen to the squirrels running around under that ungroomed mat of hair.
Please, please, hurry JFK Jr.; I see F*cker’s only going to give him a scant minute or two. Agh…
JWR, at 7:56, thanks.
Bullseye.
Okay, while I’m waiting for JFK Jr. on MSNBC’S F*cker Carlson’s show…
Have an ethics problem for you FDL’rs.
Hypothetically speaking…if you were to receive photographs that showed a married Republican candidate in a parked car with a person to whom he was not married, in flagrante delicto…
What would you do with them?
Rayne, why do you choose to pull out the same red herring that I asked Jane to put away? I repeat, nobody suggested reading Malkin. You may be personally immune to navel-gazing, but not all the rest of us are. Peace be with you.
jim
116, Huckermill: starting with your paragraph “The soldiers were told by the president….”, I think you have very accurately summed up the process which leads to a “Haditha”. Very well written.
When Murtha talks about how Iraq is chewing up our forces, he means much more than simply losses of soldiers, Humvees, choppers, etc. Murtha also means exactly what Huckermill writes of. Huckermill’s last line is also what Murtha is trying to tell everyone.
Ghostman
Kennedy rocks and tucker looks like a namby pamby shrill baby missing his bib.
More on the Pine Ridge story:
Tribal council outlaws abortion
John Casper – Your welcome, and thank you. After I read that story last weekend, I had to push the computer away for a while.
Hypothetically speaking%u2026if you were to receive photographs that showed a married Republican candidate in a parked car with a person to whom he was not married, in flagrante delicto%u2026
What would you do with them?
Publish them as far and wide as possible. It’s what they would do to one of our candidates, and is an even more important considering how the Rupugs are painting themselves up to be the arbiters and stewards of morality and values in this country.
Send them to me. I’ll put em up on my blog. I mean, hypothetically of course.
This flew in over the transom yesterday :
“Iraq’s prime minister orders army to take control of Basra”
If you read Prof. Cole you’ll be aware of the mess that has taken hold in Basra, and it’s a very complicated thing.
http://www.realcities.com/mld/…..709648.htm
Here’s my take based on what little I know.
I saw nothing about it anywhere else today.
This is the moment of truth all the “6 more months will tell the tale” crowd have been talking about.
Three things can happen.
1. They go to Basra and restore order and disarm the malitias.
2. They battle them and lose.
3. They break apart and join the various factions.
If the first happens, Bush is the smartest man on the planet, and Iraq will begin to improve.
If the second happens, the new Iraqi government will be seen as a joke, and the chaos will spread beyond Iraq’s borders.
If the third happens see the above.
All of these options will destroy the city of Basra, and split it into warring zones. Oil exports out of the terminal on the Persian Gulf will be cut. Oil may spike on the world markets as soon as the news of fighting in Basra gets started in earnest.
This will also put a hell of a strain on our forces. Since the Iraqi’s will need to be supplied and supported out of Kuwait. The Shia malitias will cut the lines of communication from Basra to Baghdad.
Rayne– warn the spouse and let ‘em rip. I don’t personally care what they do in their personal lives, but THEY do.
Looks like Late-Nite upstairs. (RSS, people!)
I NEVER watch Tucker C. and did tonight to see Kennedy. OMG. You just want to slap that idiot–he thinks he’s so astute, so “gotcha” –gag. I could have strangled him when he said, “I don’t think you’re a crackpot” to Kennedy.
Huckermill. Understand what you are saying. And Ghostman @124 -
When Murtha talks about how Iraq is chewing up our forces,…
Its literally and figuratively chewing up our future.
More fecal matter enters the rotating device :
Premier Accuses U.S. of Attacking Civilians in Iraq
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
Published: June 2, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq, June 1 — Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki lashed out at the American military on Thursday, denouncing what he characterized as habitual attacks by troops against Iraqi civilians.
As outrage over reports that American marines killed 24 Iraqis in the town of Haditha last year continued to shake the new government, the country’s senior leaders said that they would demand that American officials turn over their investigative files on the killings and that the Iraqi government would conduct its own inquiry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06…..r=homepage
I remember Ted Koppel standing at “the berm” on the Kuwait border, and reciting the lines about about the dogs war.
Rayne: it sounds to me as if someone else has the ethics problem – all you have is a bulk email issue. :b
128 Gyro Gear Lo*se
Moqtada al-Sadr controls everything in Basra and is backed up by more than ‘militias’, although all real reporting indicates, the largest, most well armed, and sophisticated of all tribal militias – and correct me if I’m wrong, but believe the ‘badr brigades’ swear fealty to him – and there’s the no small matter of being backed by the Mullahs in Iran – good luck with that
jim preston (123) — then why aren’t folks like you and eric naming pointedly the pieces you think the progressive movement would benefit from reading?
You can immediately skip O’Beirne, Coulter, Goldberg, O’Neill to make the list of authors shorter.
Malkin was cited by me (I did not notice Jane had) because I am a woman of Polynesian-Asian-Caucasian background; as such, I find her work to be particularly disgusting, unenlightened and disingenous. Call it the obvious low-hanging and rotten fruit.
If I were going to add a book or two to the FDL list, I’d add Jared Diamond’s Collapse and Francis Fukuyama’s America at the Crossroads; hardly navel-gazing. But it’s not my blog, and they may not meet criteria of the blog hosts.
=====
BTW: F*ck you, F*cker Carlson. Thank you for questioning why the media didn’t cover election fraud as if that was proof enough it didn’t happen…and then shouting over JFK Jr. so that he couldn’t make his points. YOU, F*cker Carlson, are one of the biggest reasons why this country is in a constitutional crisis, because you are a brown-shirted bootlicker.
TRex, angie, Mary, bless you. Heh.
I was thinking about, uh, imagining “wallpapering” the PC’s at every public library.
But bulk mail works, too. Good think I finished my cup of tea before I read that, Mary. [snort!]
And TRex, I will seriously consider that option, hypothetically speaking. Hee-hee.
You know, it feels kind of weird to think like a Republican, a little smarmy; makes me shudder, raises gooseflesh.
Maybe your NSA minder could help Rayne? Not like they’re in it for the dirty pics, but you might end up being one of the more popular surveillance subjects. *g*
cbl – I make that mistake too, but Badr is SCIRI, al-Sadr’s crew are Mehdi.
Mary (139) — You know, we really do need to get more ROI out of our tax dollars; putting the NSA to more effective use might fill that bill.
I can’t wait to add this one to the file the feds have on me. Hypothetically speaking, of course. Heh.
JohnC & JWR
From truthout, Dahr Jamail had this piece, and while it may be iffy on factual support, it does lay out what no doubt many Iraqis commonly believe. Hard to win hearts and minds in that setting, without leaving. Where’s Simon with a “Fifty Ways to Leave Ramadi”?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/053006Z.shtml
Countless My Lai Massacres in Iraq
>>>>>>>>>>>
After I got a little cheered over seeing the quotes on Hagee’s response:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.co…..826054.php
Haggee – We have all been educated in the Law of Armed Conflict. We continue to reinforce that training, even when deployed to combat zones. We do not employ force just for the sake of employing force. We use lethal force only when justified, proportional and, most importantly, lawful. We follow the laws and regulations, Geneva Convention and Rules of Engagement. This is the American way of war. We must regulate force and violence, we only damage property that must be damaged, and we protect the non-combatants we find on the battlefield.
Hagee sounded like – despite everything troops are being told here, before they are sent, about the Geneva conventions not applying, Hagee was going to come down on the Mora side of the right/wrong line and make things at least a litle more clear, a little less “walk the war crimes line” for those young, stressed troops. So I was very disappointed and sad to see the Chiarelli quotes, although you don’t know from a short quote
http://www.forbes.com/business…..88114.html
“As military professionals, it is important that we take time to reflect on the values that separate us from our enemies,” Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the No. 2 U.S. general in Iraq, said in a statement. “The challenge for us is to make sure the actions of a few do not tarnish the good work of the many.”
Nothing about Geneva conventions. Nothing about ILLEGAL war behavior – all ethics and morals and slide shows. It seemed to me a deliberate drop after Hagee’s much more direct – we follow the Geneva conventions, we protect non-combatants. It was shades of the Pace Rumsfeld exchange: Intervene? Nah – just report. Intervene you still say – time to go behind closed doors. *s*
Tack on how very very careful Bush was to talk about the context.
Bush: “. . . those who violated the law, if they did, will be punished.” Bc we have all learned the drill now – if the President says it, it’s legal. If the President says you can commit war crimes, they aren’t crimes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if they are crimes, like the el-Masri case, then they are secrets (and btw – woe be to anyone who leaked) Germany as disclosed that they had more knowledge about the rendition of their citizen than formerly publicized, plus they have had a bout of spying on journalists. Difference between Germany (with a new Chancellor) and US (with same Bush and a ravenous to devour the Constitution set of bulldogs in DOJ)
Germany says it’s sorry. Seems to think they have an obligation to restore confidence after those kinds of actions. We get to have rendition of our own citizens in violation of their constituional protections and then have cocktail weenies.
But from Chiarelli
===M – at this late hour moderation is not checked all that frequently. I would hate to have your comments lost. So, as for l**ks please consider using a number that has only three letters instead of five and your comments will appear more quickly. You are so lucky that I am up later than usual. Your moderator and not a big name on this blog===
The Lord’s Prayer rewritten by the Republican Party
Our (we Republicans that is) Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
( you have the clout and we respect clout)
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done ( bring it on ) on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread ( to us not to “them”) and forgive us our debts
( yes we know, we know….please don’t bring it up.) as we forgive our debtors.
( There is a vote coming up in the house on this last part remaining in the prayer -it’s scheduled for 12 midnight – doesn’t look good for you Lord ) Lead us not into tempatation ( we know the way – wink wink) but deliver us from evil ( you know, from the Dems, gays, libs, women who like sex, the elderly, laws, the weather, the axis of evil and Neil Young) For thine is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory ( You’re the decider big guy) forever and ever amen.
Christy,
Glenn has made a good and useful point that book sales of Patriot are an indication of the power of the blogosphere. In keeping with that thought, I would love for 1) the bookclub graphic to be linked to some way to buy the book (via Amazon, Chelseas, Powells, what have you) so that 2) fdl gets the credit if you will, and so 3) shows the leadership role that blogs and all of us readers have taken on.
Thanks.
Mary @ 9:39 PM – So Haggee was used by the administration to present the honest face of the military to the world, while Chiarelli played the role of the tut-tutting vice-principal telling the schoolboys to behave? Maybe I’m way off base in understanding your comment, but yours are always highly regarded must-reads in my book. And thanks for the Dahr Jamail link.
To all you who left comments on Thursday night about how to help with election fraud prevention and voter protection/election monitoring.
I have a long explaination at Comment 185 (currently awaiting moderation) please check it out.
Being an anybody-but-bush lefty since 2000, I am always looking for good snark as balm for the soul these days, so I clicked over to listen to “Creationist Museum”, the Ricky Santorum calls, etc.
And amusing as they are, I have to say that I don’t quite find them as funny as you implied, Jane. Mildly amusing, but also mildly boring.
Expose Yourself!
That’s what you need to do, if you want to maximize the traffic
to your website. You need to expose yourself to as many pairs of
eyes as you possibly can.