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Only George Bush could take a country run by a violent dictator, where the people were oppressed and murdered and terrorized by secret police and tortured for disagreeing with the government…and turn it into an even less stable country where people are murdered and tortured and kidnapped and killed in cold blood and worse, inflaming sectarian and tribal rivalries and raising the bar on the fight to control Iraq’s valuable oil reserves, as armed militias for each faction fight amongst themselves and US troops for control.
It’s the Katrina piss poor response writ large in the Middle East, and we are spiraling toward a civil war of our own making in Iraq with no end in sight for our troops if we keep going the way things are.
All because this President chose to fight a preemptive war of his own making, based on ginned up false reasons that were sold to the public with the threat of a looming mushroom cloud hanging in the air — a threat that the President either knew or should have known was altogether false, had he bothered to listen to someone outside his circle of crony yes men. (Froomkin had a fantastic piece on the failed pre-emptive strategy back in March that is worth another read.)
The NYTimes reports this morning that Gen. Casey has decided to take troops currently staged in Kuwait and move them into Iraq’s Anbar province in the west, due to increasing hostility in the area. You know, because the Iraqi government is so stable and the Iraqi troops are standing up so much so that we can stand down and…oh, hell….
One senior American commander said recently that military officials still remain hopeful that they can reduce the troop presence in Iraq by 25 percent by the end of the year, but he admitted that there was no timetable and much of that hope rests on the performance of the fledgling Iraqi government in coming months.
How much the decision to deploy the entire reserve brigade from Kuwait will increase the total number of American troops in Iraq and for how long was unclear. Nor is it clear how the additional troops will be employed as commanders seek to quell the violence in Anbar in coming months.
One official said the additional troops would be deployed to "fill in the gaps" that now exist and that will get worse when the Pennsylvania Guard unit pulls out.
The top commander in the province, Gen. Richard Zilmer of the Marines, said in an interview last month that a large-scale assault on insurgents in Ramadi, similar to block-by-block fighting by the Marines in nearby Falluja in 2004, was not under consideration. Instead, he said, the Marines expect more targeted actions against insurgents in the city.
Oh yeah, I got yer last throes right here.
UPDATE: Swopa’s right — the WaPo article on the troop redeployment is better than the NYTimes one.
Swopa covered the walling off of Samarra back in December and how much it was not working. That we are attempting the same crapola strategy in Ramadi is painful — but when you try to fight a war on the cheap and your troops are already stretched beyond thin with no real back-up from the Iraqis at this point…well, that piss poor planning comes back to bite you in the ass. Unfortunately, its the grunts on the ground paying the price for Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush’s war of choice, because accountability isn’t exactly a word that I associate with the Bush Administration on any level. (Is Donald Rumsfeld still Secretary of Defense? Yeah, I thought so.)
The US launched a previous offensive in March of 2006 to clear out the insurgents in the region — but clearly we were only playing whack-a-mole with too few troops to ever do much more than chase them out of one town and into another. We don’t have the force levels to hold any area once we’ve cleared it of insurgents, let alone be able to cover the borders, and our troops end up fighting the same battles over and over like some nightmare version of Groundhog Day where they risk life and limb in a failed policy of war on the cheap.
And the Iraqis themselves are staring into a long abyss of civil war at the moment, with a government which still has not filled some essential positions, where factional infighting has been the norm even in the "halls of power," and has been greeted with skepticism among the rest of the Arab world.
Prof. Juan Cole has all the depressing details good news for Iraq and Afghanistan. (We are still pretending that there is good news all the time, aren’t we?)
It’s been a long road since Rep. Jack Murtha stood up for the troops on the ground and said enough back in November of 2005. His words still ring out today:
The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region.
General Casey said in a September 2005 hearing, ‘the perception of occupation in Iraq is a major driving force behind the insurgency.’ General Abizaid said on the same date, "Reducing the size and visibility of the coalition forces in Iraq is part of our counterinsurgency strategy."
For two and a half years, I have been concerned about the U.S. policy and the plan in Iraq. I have addressed my concerns with the Administration and the Pentagon and have spoken out in public about my concerns. The main reason for going to war has been discredited. A few days before the start of the war I was in Kuwait – the military drew a red line around Baghdad and said when U.S. forces cross that line they will be attacked by the Iraqis with Weapons of Mass Destruction – but the US forces said they were prepared. They had well trained forces with the appropriate protective gear.
We spend more money on Intelligence that all the countries in the world together, and more on Intelligence than most countries GDP. But the intelligence concerning Iraq was wrong. It is not a world intelligence failure. It is a U.S. intelligence failure and the way that intelligence was misused.
I have been visiting our wounded troops at Bethesda and Walter Reed hospitals almost every week since the beginning of the War. And what demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace; the devastation caused by IEDs; being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes; being on their second or third deployment and leaving their families behind without a network of support.
The threat posed by terrorism is real, but we have other threats that cannot be ignored. We must be prepared to face all threats. The future of our military is at risk. Our military and their families are stretched thin. Many say that the Army is broken. Some of our troops are on their third deployment. Recruitment is down, even as our military has lowered its standards. Defense budgets are being cut. Personnel costs are skyrocketing, particularly in health care. Choices will have to be made. We cannot allow promises we have made to our military families in terms of service benefits, in terms of their health care, to be negotiated away. Procurement programs that ensure our military dominance cannot be negotiated away. We must be prepared. The war in Iraq has caused huge shortfalls at our bases in the U.S.
Much of our ground transportation is worn out and in need of either serous overhaul or replacement. George Washington said, "To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace." We must rebuild out Army. Our deficit is growing out of control. The Director of the Congressional Budget Office recently admitted to being "terrified" about the budget deficit in the coming decades. This is the first prolonged war we have fought with three years of tax cuts, without full mobilization of American industry and without a draft. The burden of this war has not been shared equally; the military and their families are shouldering this burden.
Our military has been fighting a war in Iraq for over two and a half years. Our military has accomplished its mission and done its duty. Our military captured Saddam Hussein, and captured or killed his closest associates. But the war continues to intensify. Deaths and injuries are growing, with over 2,079 confirmed American deaths. Over 15,500 have been seriously injured and it is estimated that over 50,000 will suffer from battle fatigue. There have been reports of at least 30,000 Iraqi civilian deaths.
I just recently visited Anbar Province Iraq in order to assess the condition on the ground. Last May 2005, as part of the Emergency Supplemental Spending Bill, the House included to Moran Amendment, which was accepted in Conference, and which required the Secretary of Defense to submit quarterly reports to Congress in order to more accurately measure stability and security in Iraq. We have not received two reports. I am disturbed by the findings in key indicator areas. Oil production and energy production are below pre-war levels. Our reconstruction efforts have been crippled by security situation. Only $9 billion of the $18 billion appropriated for reconstruction has been spent. Unemployment remains at about 60 percent. Clean water is scarce. Only $500 million of the $2.2 billion appropriated for water projects have been spent. And most importantly, insurgent incidents have increased from about 150 per week to over 700 in the last year. Instead of attacks going down over time and with the addition of more troops, attacks have grown dramatically. Since the revelations at Abu Ghraib, American causalities have doubled. An annual State Department report in 2004 indicated a sharp increase in global terrorism.
I said over a year ago, and now the military and the Administration agrees, Iraq can not be won ‘militarily.’ I said two years ago, the key to progress in Iraq is to Iraqitize, Internationalize and Energize. I believe the same today. But I have concluded that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is impeding this progress.
Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency. They are untied against U.S. forces and we have become a catalyst for violence. U.S. troops are the common enemy of the Sunnis, Saddamists and foreign jihadists. I believe with a U.S. troop redeployment, the Iraq security forces will be incentivized to take control. A poll recently conducted shows that over 80% of Iraqis are strongly opposed to the presence of coalition troops, about 45% of the Iraqi population believe attacks against American troops are justified. I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis. I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice that the United States will immediately redeploy. All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free. Free from United Stated occupation. I believe this will send a signal to the Sunnis to join the political process for the good of a "free" Iraq.
My plan calls:
To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
To create a quick reaction force in the region.
To create an over-the-horizon presence of Marines.
To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq.
This war needs to be personalized. As I said before, I have visited with the severely wounded of this war. They are suffering.
"Because we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, it is our responsibility, our obligation, to speak out for them. That’s why I am speaking out.
"Our military has done everything that has been asked of them, the U.S. can not accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. It is time to bring them home."
Same Anbar province. Increased violence. Again. The Bush Administration’s plans are making things worse. It is time for better planning, better long-term strategic thinking, and to stop making things worse than they already are. Jack Murtha’s words ring even more forcefully now than they did back in November — things are getting worse, not better, with our troops in Iraq. We made this mess, and we are going to be suffering the long, long consequences of this failure by George Bush and his Administration for generations to come.
Enough death. Enough loss of limbs and lives. Enough.
And because of the President’s war of choice in Iraq, we failed to properly finish the job in Afghanistan, where Kabul is today in a virtual state of lockdown and the Taliban and warlords are having a substantial resurgence outside the capitol. Heckuva job, Bushie. Oh, and by the way, still waiting for that Osama, dead or alive thing. In case you thought we forgot, I haven’t.
Take some time today to sit down and write a letter to the editor. Talk about this with your friends, your co-workers, folks in the grocery check-out line, whatever. Call in to a local talk radio show. Call your Congressperson’s local office or their office in DC. Meet with your member of Congress in person if they are hosting a town hall and voice your concerns. Let’s put our heads together and come up with something — because what President Bush is doing now is only making things worse. And it’s time we all started saying that out loud. The first step to fixing the problem is acknowledging that you have one — and we have a big one sitting in the Oval Office at the moment.
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Fitz
Fitz aussi
Didn’t Bush say that this was going to be something for future presidents to solve?
Paragraph 3 – should be “President” (Have another cup of coffee, Christy!) Hope Fi is back to her usual spunky self, and that all of you got some much-needed rest!
Why is it that the military are time and again constrained from speaking the truth? What is it that ties their hands and tongues?
good morning, all!
campaign mantra:
Name one thing this administration has done right.
It’s simple and true and undeniable.
Wonderful rant , Christy. I usually feel better after reading one of those. Today I’m just scared.
Just finished Glenn’s ‘How Would a Patriot Act?’
Should be required reading. Maybe we should send a copy to each Senator and Rep.
We are now witnessing the beginning of the end game in Iraq, and it is not going to be pretty. Events in Basra suggest that the Resistance is ramping up attacks on the occupying forces. British troops will be drawn down soon, as will the Italian contingent, leaving the long United States supply line from Kuwait even more vulnerable to attack. This is not something that can be countered by massive application of air power. Logistics is not ‘fuzzy math’.
moe99 — It’s chain of command. If you are in uniform, you can speak freely in terms of policy decisionmaking only within the confines of policy discussions within the Administration. The UCMJ is very clear about speaking out while in uniform — and the penalties therefor. I’ve had this argument with any number of people who were military, and to a person the ones that have been there say it is necessary — but it’s painful. Which is why the rest of us have to be their voices.
Remember when folks who warned of “whacking a hornets nest” were called traitors and moonbats and unpatriotic?
Get out the Raid.
Most Americans have no idea how really bad the situation is in Iraq. I get my information by reading Professor’s Cole’s blog as well as by reading the Guardian (UK)and the Independent (UK). A very different picture to what comes accross in the mainstream American media.
between ‘68 and ‘72, 20K more U.S. troops died in Vietnam. Then, Nixon got reelected.
This is far from over. And since no one’s being drafted, very few people are motivated to do anything about it.
If I started a discussion with a person in the grocery line, it would probably end with my getting arrested, then I wouldn’t be home in time for the school bus.
Re speaking with others, at the beauty salon I brought up the Middle East situation with my hair stylist, and her reply was shocking.
She is from Afghanistan. Her widowed mother led her 11 children out of danger by WALKING from Kabul to the border. It took them a week. Every step, she said, they worried about either getting shot or stepping on a mine. They cried the whole time.
Has our war of aggression brought any peace to the Middle East, or the exact opposite? Maybe that was their intent after all. You can make a lot of money with war profiteering when there is chaos.
Along with Juan Cole’s, Chris Allbritton’s posts from yesterday and today (at http://www.back-to-iraq.com) are must-reads too. One of them notes NYT’s probable confirmation of what Baghdad-based journos have long assumed, that “the US military and others” monitor their calls and email.
Actually, Christy, you’re way off base, according to redstate.com
Seems that Murtha is irresponsible, there was only a cover-up “initially” (until the media discovered the incident, I guess)and even the Iraqui’s don’t really have a problem with killing a bunch of innocent civillians because Sadaam was so much worse. At least they’re not “bellyaching” about it. I kid you not…
“Meanwhile, in Iran and Afghanistan where conditions are arguably as difficult as those in Iraq, albeit in different ways, violent protests have erupted over a political cartoon and a traffic accident. Why aren’t there any in Baghdad, let alone Haditha itself, over this far more serious issue? I wonder if most Iraqis have better things to do than belly ache about the incident? Sure, there are always individuals standing on street corners who will bear out “expert” Juan Cole’s theories, but are the majority of them really so utterly disenfranchised or are they simply realistic about what can happen when you completely transform a country through military force? It’s not pretty, but Haditha is a Sunni town, and there may be a sense among the Shi’ites and Kurds that what goes around comes around. Furthermore, the “apathy” articles seem to be saying “Look what we have done to them” as if life under Saddam was some sort of utopia–ignoring the fact that much of the disillusionment of the Iraqi people stems from three decades of Saddam’s tyranny. It will take time for the population to expect anything but brutality from those in positions of authority–but swift justice for any wrongdoing at Haditha might go a long way towards restoring their faith.”
–AcademicElephant, Redstate.com
See? This is actually a a great OPPORTUNITY, just like Abu Ghirab, dontchaknow, to show the Iraqui’s how much BETTER off they are!
To paraphraase Patsy Roberts, though, you can’t enjoy living in a democracy if you’re dead.
AAAAARRRRGHH!
excellent job Redd. let’s all remember that our best exit strategy is to help Jomentum exit the senate. the best way we can help Murtha and Feingold and Gore, and help the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan is to elect Lamont and all of the other real, young Democrats and any other progressive people we can in November. the primary for Lamont is just over two months away and the November election is just five!
“Only George Bush could take a country run by a violent dictator, where the people were oppressed and murdered and terrorized by secret police and tortured for disagreeing with the government%u2026and turn it into an even less stable country…”
Great post as per usual Christy.
You are the first that I have read to actually get close to saying it, Iraq and the ME were better offer with Saddam than with the U.S. occupying Iraq. All Bush did was destroy the moderates on all sides and embolden extremeists on all sides, throughout the ME.
I’m anxious to see which politician will be the first out with that soundbyte.
BTW, I pulled this Dead Eye quote from 1991 off needlenose:
“Once you’ve got Baghdad, it’s not clear what you do with it. It’s not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that’s currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists? How much credibility is that government going to have if it’s set up by the United States military when it’s there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave?
%u2014 Sec. of Defense Dick Cheney, April 1991%u2033
OT, WaPo’s Dana Priest frequently quotes U.S. intelligence sources telling her, we’re creating more terrorists than we’re killing.
I don’t like that phrasing, but given who edits the WaPo, I guess it’s the best we can hope for.
On mark, Christy…
I’m suffering from anxietyfitz..
Something is going on… we had that flurry
of activity then silence…
In my opinion, the only way we can stop the war
is by a serious of indictments that lay bare
the criminality of this hopeless and deceitful administration.
I’d love to read the transcript of George Bush’s June 24th meeting with Fitzy…
The Bay State Librul who can’t take it anymore
Good Morning Everyone,
Christy, that is a ‘doozy’ of a post.
am doing my best as a non military person to be sensitive to what troops are facing and not to disparage but just WTF are they thinking w/ Ramadi ?!?!? is it antiquated to think Military planners have a moral obligation to the boots on the ground – doing what they did in Fallujah is either just drop dead stupid or cavalier w/ American lives
Have only heard Murtha recently speak of this atrocity in Haditha – is he still advocating the re deployment plans he first proposed ?
I ask, b/c as I read this and other accounts, am not sure it would ‘help’ much anymore – circumstances have deteriorated so much since then – any rapid response teams would constantly be rapidly responding
don’t usually like to bitch without offering up solutions, but I sure as hell don’t have any ideas
well that’s not quite true, somebody, anybody, make these murderous idiots accountable – yo!, Sen Warner – speak the f**k up !!! am no John Warner fan – but Senator Warner, your prescious rep for ‘level headed advocacy for those in uniform” is in serious peril – look what timidity w/ these criminals has done to Arlen’s rep – you’re headed down that road !
Moe99 at 5
It’s called the Hatch Act. It prevents certain Federal Employees from speaking out politically.
Whe I worked for the Federal Gov’t it was much stricter than it is now. It was loosened considerably (and I think, incorrectly) durring the Clinton Administration. But the military still takes a conservative view.
unless of course you are General Pace who should just admit he is a political spinmeister. But don’t get me started.
I’m serious about the Hatch Act. It’s one of the reasons “career proscuotrs” are so apolitical
There’s no reality of the situation in Iraq to most Americans. It’s terrible, true, and they know it, but it’s like an earthquake in some far-off land—it doesn’t seem real, it’s just terrible pictures and stories in the paper. I think most people don’t read the articles and skip the painful stuff. I think that’s why we are not seeing more of the reality of the war on television: it makes people uncomfortable and they turn the channel for the latest on B&A’s baby. And ratings go down, so no more war on the tube.
I’m wondering how bad all of this—war, domestic spying, just everything—how bad it has to get before enough attention is paid to make a change?
Or maybe the message is clear and has been understood by the majority of Americans and all we have to do is provide a viable set of candidates with a good set of plans and they’ll vote our way…
What amazes me is that anyone ever thought this war had a snowball’s chance of succeeding. It was the wrong war, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons, and that means that everything that flowed from it was pretty much doomed to failure. Maybe, if the strategic plan for the war had been gamed properly, it might have been possible to succeed, even though the reasons for undertaking it were based on manipulated intelligence. But they couldn’t even get that part right. When you consider that these were people who were telling the public that they doubted the war would last six months, you have to wonder whether this was a case of ineptitude and incompetence or hubris of unparalleled proportions. Maybe it was both, when you consider some of the other decisions made by this group.
It’s been a long time since I believed anything this administration has said about the progress of the war. Lately, whenever I hear them talk about “turning points,” I think of that car commercial where someone asks in the voice-over, “What if we took a trip and only made left turns?” With this crowd, they would probably have to change it to “right” turns, what with the negative connotation of “left,” but the point is that these turning points all seem to have us fated never to get to the intended destination, but have us going in circles.
There have been so many opportunities to get this right, even though it started out wrong, but out of an abundance of ego, and driven by politics, those opportunities have been lost, time and again. It makes me ill when I hear Bush saying that the only way to honor the fallen is to keep fighting, because it shows how little he knows about the meaning of honor – but we already knew that, didn’t we?
It’s a travesty, one that is going to keep adding to the list of dead and injured, that will keep breaking hearts and damaging minds, that will be a stain on this country’s fabric for years to come. How these people can sleep at night is beyond me.
Christy
Unlike Murtha, I did not support Bush’s invasion of Iraq. (Indeed, I’m on record presaging it as a march of folly….)
Unlike Murtha, I do not think it’s helpful now to do everything possible to undermine Bush’s efforts to extricate US forces from this mess with as much as much dignity and respect as possible – and, yes, leaving behind an Iraq in far better shape than it was when they invaded.
Therefore, what’s the point is beating this dead horse. (Even the retarded Bush now admits “mistakes were made” and expresses regret over some aspects of US involvement in Iraq).
Murtha’s plan is interesting, but it smacks of retreat and declare victory (or plan to watch the place descend into complete chaos “from the horizon”). Why not support people like John McCain who are urging a belated recourse to the Powell doctrine?
(Alas, proposals by critics like John Kerry amount to little more than putting a “Democratic” by-line on things Bush and Rumsfeld are already trying desperately to accomplish.)
It’s not Bush and the Republicans’ reputation and credibility at stake in Iraq. It’s Americas. With all due respect, I think it’s helpful to bear this in mind….
Heads up– Fein and Turley testifying re the FBI raid on cspan 1 with Sensenbrenner et al.
The most difficult thing to come to grips with (for me) is why successive U.S. governments cannot understand the Arab world’s, (and most of the rest of this planet’s nations) disdain, scorn and utter distrust for America’s complete failure at using an evenhanded approach for solving the Palestinian “question”. Until that situation is resolved there will be no peace in the Middle East. And that is going to require a different president and Congress than we now have. And even that won’t guarantee peace in the region. But it sure is worth a try. Israel was rightly enfranchised and given its own homeland subsequent to W.W.II. The Palestinians should be accorded the same treatment. To do otherwise simply makes no sense and only serves to paint us, rightly, as an unjust, unfair, equivocal bunch of prejudiced and discriminatory tyrants concerned only with regional (and world) hegemony.
Christy, Great opening line to that post.
It makes for a nice repetition cadence for a speech, too.
“Only George Bush could X.
Only George Bush could Y.
Only George Bush could Z.”
Listing the stupidity de jour. Nice wordsmithing.
Christy et al — House Judiciary Committee meeting under way on C-SPAN; Bruce Fein finished giving his perspective as a witness a few minutes ago regarding Speech and Debate Clause with regard to Jefferson office search.
Oops, angie’s faster on the draw.
Fein basically suggested the search violated the clause because it went through more documents than those inside the “four cornsers” of the warrant in order to find those required within the “four corners”.
Did you have the same gist, angie?
For all the MSM-bashing around here, this weekend’s news of the CBS News crew getting caught up in an IED explosion brought home once again the risks that some in the media are taking to try to cover this debacle.
I don’t have the specific numbers, but the rough percentages scare me. CNN reports 2690 coalition military deaths as of 5/29/06, and the International Federation of Journalists reports 127 media people killed. When you consider how many troops there have been serving in Iraq, and how many media types, the odds are probably much worse for the media.
If there have been 540,000 troops rotated in and out over the last 3 years (note: not currently serving), that puts the percentage of military deaths at roughtly 0.5%. To match that, there would have had to have been 26,000 reporters and crew members (camera/sound/bureau people/etc.) going in and out of Iraq to report on the war.
The 540,000 is a rough – very rough – guess at the number of coalition troops who have rotated in and out, but when you consider the multiple deployments of the same units, I think it’s at least in the ballpark. The overall picture it paints for the media is appalling.
They have paid the price of attempting to hold our nation accountable for this war and the prosecution thereof. Bush can lay his wreaths at Arlington, but until he lays one at the grave of a journalist, his “compassion” for those who have paid the price of war is woefully incomplete.
Hang in there, Kimberly Dozier – we’re pulling for you.
Rest in peace, Paul Douglas and James Brolan, good and faithful servants of the truth.
Only George Bush could take a country run by a violent dictator … and turn it into an even less stable country where people are murdered and tortured and kidnapped and killed in cold blood and worse …
It’s the Katrina piss poor response writ large in the Middle East, and we are spiraling toward a civil war of our own making in Iraq with no end in sight for our troops if we keep going the way things are.
Other than that, what’s the problem?
Deciderating between Jack Daniels and Jim Beam is hard work, and failed states happen.
If the Commander Copiece Decideration takes the cradle of civilization and returns it to a pre-civilized war of all against all, how does that affect his legacy?
If a Hobbesian “natural state” leads the citizens of the region formerly known as Iraq to lives that are “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short” — so what?
If you are not one of the haves or have mores, you don’t count — why should Dear Leader Bush care about you?
To paraphrase a Patsy Roberts paraphrase –
You can’t enjoy living in a failed state if you’re dead.”
yes, Rayne.
Anthony, I don’t think the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force will work AFTER you’ve made the mess (triggering the Powell “Pottery Barn” corellary).
The Powell Doctrine works to prevent the mess in the first place.
I think Murtha is using the “don’t throw good money after bad” rule. Don’t kill more troops senslessly to try to justify the ones you already have wasted.
I think the John Kerry “who wants to ask someone to be the last soldier to die for mistake?” phenomena has hold in Murth’a mind.
Anthony @25 –
A military plan implemented “belatedly” is rarely, if ever, a good idea.
Something about barn doors . . .
More about talking with people: another family weekend, spread the word about Glenn Greenwald’s book and associated ideas. By the way there is an excellent Spotlight review of this book at amazon. :)
I spoke more to the men this time. It is painful for them to acknowledge our country might be headed in the wrong direction. They seem now to be more willing to consider this, tho they sound defensive (hurt?) by the idea.
The happy occasion: my daughter graduated from college! So now one is married, and the other graduated. Son still in college. Sigh. They do grow up.
We weep.
It wasn’t 9/11 when everything changed, it was Bush’s installation day. And America may never recover from this siege against democracy.
Today, Fargo’s son killed in Iraq last week will be buried.
MSNBC is broadcasting the video of Bob Shieffer’s commentary about CBS’s own “family” loss of camera crew and injury of Kimberly Dosier. Would that this will be a Cronkite moment.
If the sheeple would notice.
not looking good for the Executive branch today from the testimony thus far.
That pesky Speech and Debate clause is being explained and all those testifying are citing it…
No legislative rep or attorney were barred from the search.
whoops — I meant no legislative rep or attorney were allowed during the search– the were barred.
anthony–
Maybe you’re right. We seem to be building up great reserves of dignity and respect for our country every day we’re in Iraq. “Credibility” and “respect” for America by staying in Iraq? Oh, yeah, we’ve hit the motherlode on that, haven’t we. We couldn’t fit any more credibility and respect in our credibility and respect buckets, that’s for sure.
And that is what’s important here, isn’t it? OUR freakin’ dignity, respect and credibility!
You want to leave Iraq a better place that when we found it? How ’bout let’s start with not killing so many Iraqis. Otherwise, I’m afraid that train done left the station. We need to just leave, set some money on the dresser and apologize for fucking up their country worse than it was, which is saying something. Every day we stay, we make it worse.
looseheadprop –
Just read your words to the trolls from Pach’s thread yesterday, and wanted to offer a word.
Thanks.
Osama is sitting in his villa somewhere in Pakistan (most likely) watching CNN on his HDTV and laughing his ass off at us ‘Mercan’s. The type of closed, authoritarian, theocratic society he advocates is being created right under our noses by the Bu$hCo cabal and its rimjobbing enablers and supporters. He must have been especially amused when last week a senile, chickenhawk congress-critter from NJ, who was so full of himself and so self-important that he naturally assumed that what sounded like gunshots just had to be aimed at him, caused Capitol Hill to be shut down for more than 5 hrs at a cost of 10’s of millions of dollars. Because Bu$hCo has convinced the people of the strongest country in the world to be deathly afraid of their own shadow’s and at the sound of a pin dropping, bin Laden and company don’t need to actually attack, they can just watch us do ourselves in fighting the bogus War on Terra.
lhp –
responding to something you posted yesterday –
Memorial Day began in Waterloo NY in 1865, in remembrance of the Civil War dead.
Veterans Day is the former Armistice Day, which remembers the end of WWI on 11/11/1918 at 11 AM.
Swopa covered the walling off of Samarra back in December and how much it was not working. That we are attempting the same crapola strategy in Ramadi is painful.
We’re not even trying to do that in Ramadi. We’re trying to hold on to the five blocks of downtown that we “control.”
The Washington Post’s article on this is much better & more detailed than the NYT story.
Common wisdom would suggest that Bush is making mistake after mistake in Iraq. But consider for a moment the possibility that things in Iraq are going precisely according to the grand plan — that the goal is not to “win a peace”, but to maintain a state of war.
I wish this was just so much tin foil hat thinking, but unfortunately, the president’s inner circle and power base is filled with followers of Leo Strauss. Understanding Strauss is one key to understanding this administration.
John G. Mason writes:
http://www.logosjournal.com/mason.htm
“Because mankind is intrinsically wicked,” Strauss once wrote, “ he has to be governed. Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united – and they can only be united against other people.”
According to Shadia Drury:
http://www.secularhumanism.org…..drury_24_4
Strauss thought that the best way for ordinary human beings to raise themselves above the beasts is to be utterly devoted to their nation and willing to sacrifice their lives for it. He recommended a rabid nationalism and a militant society modelled on Sparta. He thought that this was the best hope for a nation to be secure against her external enemies as well as the internal threat of decadence, sloth, and pleasure. A policy of perpetual war against a threatening enemy is the best way to ward off political decay. And if the enemy cannot be found, then it must be invented.
For example, Saddam Hussein was an insignificant tyrant in a faraway land without the military power to threaten America. And he wasn’t allied with the Islamic fundamentalists who attacked the World Trade Center in 2001. But the neoconservatives who control the White House managed to inflate the threat to gargantuan proportions and launched the nation into a needless war. Even though they are not hardcore Straussians, neoconservatives share Strauss’s view that wealth, freedom, and prosperity make people soft, pampered, and depraved. And, like Strauss, they think of war as an antidote to moral decadence and depravity. And this should make us wonder if they purposely launched the nation into a needless war because they were convinced of the salutary effects of war as such.
And when you think about about this, it goes quite a ways to explain one of the most truly bizarre quotes to emerge from this administration:
“The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
We have the power to impeach the AG and the judge–
this from Republican Issa!
Feel like I missed something in the hearing – did someone just say they were talking about empeaching the judge who okay’d the warrant???
Argh – should be “impeaching.”
END THE DAMN WAR!
Sorry, screwed up my quoting above.
This statement was mine (not part of the quote):
“And when you think about about this, it goes quite a ways to explain one of the most truly bizarre quotes to emerge from this administration:”
“Unlike Murtha, I do not think it’s helpful now to do everything possible to undermine Bush’s efforts to extricate US forces from this mess with as much as much dignity and respect as possible -….”
anthony, Iraqi’s of means are fleeing Iraq for Sryia!
“With as much dignity and respect as possible,”
anthony, Iraqi’s are focussed on fewer kidnappings and car bombs, not “dignity and respect.”
anthony, you appear to assume that Iraq is the floor, believe me it isn’t. Bush has set in motion the full scale destabilization of the entire Middle East.
anthony, there is no military objective in Iraq.
Occupying a foreign county is not a “military objective.”
It worked post WWII in Germany and Japan, because those were homogenous populations, especially Japan. Iraq isn’t.
We have enormous leverage over the ME. All we have to is import less of their oil. If the price of oil goes back down below $50/barrel, I guarantee, it won’t be so easy for all parties to finance the violence. Right now anthony, we are financing both sides of the conflict, one side with tax dollars, the other sides with purchases of foreign oil backed by China’s purchase of our T-Bills. Please, no more about “respect and dignity.”
the unindicted co conspirator here is M$M –
linked this yesterday -
Editor & Publisher taking on the editorial boards of NYT, WaPo & LA Times (1 pager, short read)
linked text
it’s not enough the American people have been ’spared’ the horrific images of what’s being done to the Iraqi people and US Military personnel in their name – these timid shitheads can’t quit the navel gazing !!!
Don’t forget we would have had more cooperation and support from other countries if we had let un take over and if we would have let other countries’ multinational corporations bid on Iraq rebuilding contracts.
Swopa, thanks so much for your really terrific work on Iraq. IMO you have a rare ability to break it down and make it understandable, especially to a U.S. audience.
John Casper #51
Great reply !
froggermarch 40, bullseye.
Can we all please, from now on, just laugh Dirty Dick Cheney out of town. The man has less than zero credibility. The media should be mocking that pathetic clown on a daily basis. How many times does he have to prove himself unworthy of being taken seriously?
To be expected with the US run by two alcoholics–abusive, violent, pissing all over themselves. The only lucid thought–how long it is to the next watering hole.
Had a few beers and, uh-oh, shot an old man in the face. And then it was cocktail hour.
Peterr, thanks for remembering lhp from yesterday, I missed it. For others who also may have missed it,
“looseheadprop says:
May 29th, 2006 at 7:43 pm
CEPAN at 129
I am not a loon. I am a New Yorker. I lost freinds (plural) on 9 11. But for a series of miracles, I almost lost a husband (he got stuck in traffic on his way to an NASD meeting) and two out of three brothers in law (one missed the plane from Boston to LA and the other walked out of the burning tower). I had two out of three sisters on airplanes that day and did not know if they were dead or alive for over 12 hours.
The ferry to the town where I live was used for evacuation. We set up a triage station at the ferry terminal for the wounded. Wounded who never came.
The “E” train station in the WTC was “my” station. Where I got off and on everyday. I spent 10 years using that station. I knew the Italian guy who ran the shoe repair store in the concourse and got my newspapers from the same newstand guy every day. He had a picture of his daughter on the cash register.
My freshman “little brother” from High School was a Fire Lt. Timmy Stackpole. He left behind 5 kids and a wife. For weeks afterward, every Sunday, they announced new names of the confirmed dead at Mass. I spent weeks writing condolence cards to former classmates and coworkers who lost husbands, wives and siblings.
Don’t you think it would be SOOOO much easier for me if I could turn my grief and rage toward an “enemy” that I could hate and fear?
Of course it would be.
It would also be easier for me to believe that their really is a monster in the closet.
But, I am a grownup. And grownups know there are no easy answers. No quick fixes. And hatred and fear will do the most harm to those who allow themselves to be ruled by it.
I know you are afraid. You would be a “loon” not to be. But you cannot allow your fear to prompt you to become the very thing that the terrorists want you to become.
Courage is not the absence of fear. The absence of fear is stupidity. Courage is facing fear and mastering it.
Do not allow your very justifiable fear to rule you. Learn to rule your fear. Learn to stifle panic and focus on logic, on rationality, on doing your duty as best your percieve it even though you want to hide under the bed.
Chicken Little ran through the neighborhood shouting “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”. Well, first, in her panic she was mistaken. Second, in her panic she was unable to give her neighbors the information they needed with sufficient specificity so that they could use that information to protet themselves. Third, she risked causing a panic that itself could have harmed her neighbors.
Chicken Little’s “warning” was valueless to those she sought to protect and was itself a potetnial source of harm to them.
The problem wasn’t the acorn that fell on Chicken Little’s head. The problem was that Chicken Little gave in to her fear and panic.
Be gentle with my fellow firepups. You may find it hard to walk a mile in some of the shoes you will find here”
“The Washington Post’s article on this is much better & more detailed than the NYT story.”
I linked to it in last night’s music free-for-all, but noone seemed to notice. Very glad Christy made the topic a thread. It is time to Murthanize Iraq, something’s got to give.
Peterr, thanks, I recommented lhp’s comment from yesterday, because I thought others besides me might have missed it. It’s awaiting moderation.
Ed n Sted, thanks for the reminder.
And re your cite of the bizarre quote, I’m reminded that John Wilkes Booth was an actor, too. Being an actor ain’t exactly noble purpose, now is it?
Time to vote the reality-based community back in charge instead of the actors.
Speaking of alcoholics, Dubya’s announcing his nomination of Paulson in the Rose Garden right now.
Cripes, right by the ‘winger playbook — one of their organizers wanted more Rose Garden events to boost the sliding POTUS JAR.
Maybe if the man’s speech wasn’t slurred, or if he picked and KEPT competent conservatives with the cajones to speak truth to power he wouldn’t need to cut brush out in the Rose Garden.
And that’s OUR Rose Garden, if may I remind you.
Agh. Last f*cking straw: a recitation about how good this economy is right now. Total bullsh*t. Bet the roses look great in a few months after all this manure.
It was the wrong war, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons, and that means that everything that flowed from it was pretty much doomed to failure.
It won two elections. It may win two more.
This isn’t a war — it’s the world’s most expensive campaign election.
And it’s not being fought against Iraqis, at least not primarily.
The real target of every bomb dropped, every round fired in Iraq is the Democratic Party — really. any organized opposition to the junta would do.
John Casper @61 –
You’re welcome, but “Awaiting moderation” has me rolling on the floor.
Isn’t that what Christy’s post here is about? I’ve been waiting 5 and a half years, but moderation seems even farther off than ever . . .
I missed Fein and Turley – what did they have to say ? only saw headline on CNN saying “experts: overreach on Jefferson search”
did Turley say that ?
In 64 above, for ‘campaign election’ read ‘campaign commercial’.
Damn cut-and-paste. Bring back parchments and palimpsests, I tell ye.
Jeepers. Now I’m going to have to flip to CNBC for the rest of the day to hear what they have to say about Paulson. They loved to mess with John Snow; I’m going to miss that.
Anybody dug up any dirt on Paulson yet?
For a long time I thought we couldn’t possibly leave Iraq without doing our best by “the Pottery Barn rule.” But by now, for the life of me I can’t see how our leaving immediately is anything but best for all concerned. We have one way to start redeeming America’s good name in the world and truly promote democracy — by demonstrating its essence, self-correction — and showing VIVIDLY what this country does to leaders as rotten as these.
Pink performing Dear Mr President –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDJ3cuXKV4
OH. MY. F*CKING. GOD. This isn’t just brush cutting in the Rose Garden; Snow slapped on the big kneepads to give Dubya a big wet one.
“Under your great leadership…war on terror…blah-blah-blechhh…”
Whatever happened with that little problem with the Ports and their sale to Dubai? Is that why Snow is doing such a bang-up job on this exhibitionistic display?
cbl– basically, all the witnesses said that.
Thanks Angie -
got yer dirt right here – Chimpy hired a bona fide tree hugger
how in heaven did they ever get the likes of this guy to take the job ?!?!?
even as an economic illiterate, I know some serious bills are coming due – what I wouldn’t give to hear Robert Ruben’s ‘candid’ response
Larry at 8:07, if Dr. King, Medgar Evers, Rosa Parks, Malcom X,… and a lot of others whupped Jim Crowe’s ass and ended legalized white supremacy with non-violence, I think we can too.
I found your comment about “targeted political violence” unacceptable.
That’s the kind of “open-ended” comment that could get the FBI asking FDL for your email and IP addresses. I for one would fully support them in providing that information to the FBI.
If not for your own sake, at least for FDL’s, I would invite you to retract your comment about “targeted political violence.”
Today’s Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/nat…..?page=full
“New veterans fear repeat of Vietnam
Groups working to educate public on Iraq returnees
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | May 30, 2006
WASHINGTON — There were no victory parades for Vietnam veterans. They were seen — and often derided — as the product of a failed policy. They struggled for decades for acceptance and many are still fighting for veterans benefits.
Now, with polls showing a steady decline in public support and average Americans increasingly tuning out the war in Iraq, a new generation of veterans are warning that they, too, are at risk of the same kind of indifference that confronted Vietnam-era veterans, many of whom suffered from homelessness and mental disabilities, and sometimes slipped through the cracks of the Department of Veterans Affairs .
“I am concerned about the idea that guys who served in Iraq are used goods and are not much worth to society,” said Marine Corps Captain David Danelo , author of “Blood Stripes: The Grunt’s View of the War in Iraq.”…
…”But perhaps the biggest challenge, say recent veterans, is educating the public and government leaders about the needs of veterans who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Danelo, the Marine captain, said he was taken aback during his recent book tour at how quickly Americans are losing interest in the Iraq war .
Said Danelo: “Talking about the war is not in vogue in a lot of places.”
Bryan Bender can be reached at bender@globe.com.”
Several things are evident.
!) G.W. Bush is no nation builder.
2) Iraq is in a state of Civil War.
hi all, been out of the loop for a few days. good to be back. did this [chris matthews making monkey noises] come to your attention?
You know the Paulson appointment is simply for show because this guy, as chairman of the Nature Conservancy, has endorsed the Kyoto Protocol to limit greenhouse emissions and believes that the failure to enact it undermines the global competitiveness of American companies. This position is so diametrically opposed to Bu$hCo groupthink that he will have absolutely no influence in the Cabinet, if they even speak to him at all. I can understand what Bu$hCo gets out of it: a person with a resume that apparently doesn’t include the RNC or the Bu$h Pioneers, but what does he gain? He’s boarding a hydrogen-filled Zeppelin already struck by lightning heading into a thunderstorm.
Pat Paulson is the nominee to be the new Treasury Secretary?
Sock it to me!
egregious, congratulations! rizbiz #7, you ask us to name one thing the administration has done right. I can think of two. First, it appointed Fitz special counsel. Of course, that could be the result of incompetence at the very top; the inner circle would surely have averted impending disaster if it had foreseen it. Still, for once, that incompetence made a bad situation better instead of worse. Second, the White House Christmas trees have been very nicely decorated. *g*
Headline and pic at CNN: missing blonde girl.
All the major sites are also prominently displaying “Reid took free boxing tickets.”
And we wonder why we’re in the state we’re in…
We can discuss it all we want, but until someone is willing to listen, we’re spinning our wheels.
Bush thinks things are fine. Cheney thinks things are fine. Rummy thinks things are fine.
Is there anyone on this planet that could make them see otherwise? Until that person can be found, anything we do now will be inconsequential. Or at least it will be until sometime in 09.
I feel I’ve been writing and reading this stuff forever. Now there’s a whole new raft of commenters who realize we’re going to hell and wonder what will ever turn things around. A sign of growing awareness in the general population, perhaps.
Anyway here, take the baton. Good luck, I’m done, we’re doomed, next world please.
John Casper @ 8:27
I think you are overreacting to my comment @61. I stated a personal opinion…. not a call for violence. Last time I checked opinions are like assholes everybody has one.
However…if you feel you must turn me in to the FBI please feel free to feed your paranoia. Perhaps you might get a junior Gman badge
I am not afraid to hold an opinion.
However, incurring the wrath of Jane or Christy, Pach or Punaise would concern me and if my comment offends them then I offer MH apology.
O/T
a little good news (h/t C& L),
so much for the whole ’sheeple’ thingy
Power to the People!
John at AmericaBLOG had an excellent take yesterday about this silly Reid-boxing-tickets story.
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..evada.html
John’s also got a great writeup about the previous work of the AP “reporter” who cobbled this together:
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..press.html
I just loves watchin’ the nitwits goose steppin’ in different directions on this immigration deal. If theys not goose steppin’ in perfect harmony come November, theys screwed.
lhp – you’re the best.
>>>>>>>>>>
Bummed but unsurprised today by S.Ct. ruling: coveringup lies is a job requirement and of course you can be fired for talking out of school. After all, if we go with no warrants as the rule of thumb, warrants based on lies are just fine too.
Except for Congress. Apparently the fine print of the Constitution says that if you want access to a Congressional office, you get a lobbyist, not a warrant.
Court rules against whistleblower:
http://www.team4news.com/Globa…..v=menu90_3
Fellow commenters,
A point of clarification on my Powell Doctrine suggestion seems in order:
As it happens, the doctrine calls not only for going in with overwhelming force but also for assuming resolute commitment to cleaning up whatever mess American forces create. Forgive me for not being more pedantic earlier, but it’s in this latter regard that I suggested we now apply the Powell Doctrine, and why I indicated that McCain’s call to get more troops in there (albeit belatedly) to put an end to the insurgency is the best way to rescue America’s reputation and credibility from purgatory in Iraq.
I just don’t see how Murtha’s plan or the Bush bashing in this forum accomplishes this worthy objective….
Anthony –
The Powell Doctrine was not and could not have been applied to Iraq, and cannot be retroactively implemented now.
The McCain Corollary of sending in more troops is pure BS — we don’t have the troops to send, and even if we did, they could not control Iraq.
This war was folly from the beginning, and all we can do now is to try and minimize the long term damage.
Anthony,
One critical aspect of Murtha’s plan is to redeploy the troops OUTSIDE of Iraq, thus maintaining a presence in the region without the provocation of US uniforms in the streets and permanent US bases being constructed. The Iraqi people have to see that we are serious about leaving, not just hear the same stand up/stand down rhetoric. The Iraqi government has to see that we’re not going to hold their hands forever while they debate the division of the portfolios of the cabinet. The recent Marine FUBAR is only going to make things worse.
At what point do we quit digging the damn hole deeper?
Murtha’s not sticking his head in the sand; he’s trying to get Bush to pull his head out.
Indeed, “The first step to fixing the problem is acknowledging that you have one – and we have a big one sitting in the Oval Office at the moment.”
And, lest we forget, we have the ole Dead Eye Dick, lurking in waiting – and let’s see, oh yeah, the Speaker of the Republican House of Representatives third in line for the desk in the Oval Office.
On the upside We the People have the (overworked) Fitz, here in California we have Senator Boxer, Pennyslvania has the tireless Congressman Murtha, Wisconsin has Senator Feingold, Michigan has Congressman Conyers – and a scattering of conscienious patriotic officials, including my own braveheart Congressman Sam Farr. We have the grassroots and the netroots, they have the corporate MSM, the White House and the House and Senate.
We the People need to rise up sooner rather than later be it a national strike, massive marches on Washington, and/or demand impeachment/resignations, whatever works. We survived Nixon – admittedly child’s play compared to the Bush/Cheney criminal cartel.
I’m just saying if not us, who? If not now, when?
Angie at 39?
Why were leg reps. and attorney’s barred? Did they say?
I have supervised a number of search warrant executions. I always WANTED a witness from the other side, the perp’s attorney was my preferred choice, B/C they would have no grounds to manufacture accusations later.
They were my eyewitnesses that it was being carried out correctly.
Last I checked, all those extra troops McCain want to send into Iraq were either A.) heading for the Mexican border B.) having prosthetics affixed at Walter Reed C.) digging in for hurricane season or d.)still vulnerable kids whose decicions these days are helping ensure that target numbers for enlistment fall short.
More troops–a LOT more troops– might (though I doubt it) be a plausible answer, if you want the draft back. And if you do call for a renewed draft, well…go ahead, make my day. (Uncle Sam want YOU, Jenna!) At that point any remaining support for ths ill-conceived invasion and occupation would quickly dry up.
no explanation as to why the FBI barred those folks– but it was remarked upon numerous times and seemed a big problem to most for the very reason you write of, lhp.
>>>>>
The dispute began Saturday, when FBI agents served a search warrant on Jefferson’s office and barred congressional officers – including the House sergeant of arms and the Capitol Police – from the overnight search. The dozen agents removed two boxes of documents and copied computer files.
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..crosspromo
Peterr @41,
I’m not sure what you are thanking me for. I did not do anything. Those things happened TO me and to people I loved.
Unless you mean for sharing it.
I just shake my head at people like that troll. He has friends who talked to people who worked at the WTC. He has an uncle who served in the military. So, other than being a fellow American ( E Pluribus Unum) , how was he personally harmed? What the hell does he have to be afraid of. From his self description he lives in the back of beyond in Texas, who is going to bother attacking the scrub brush and chiggers?
He lost not one person he knew. He had no loved ones at risk. He did not have his house fill up with the smoke for days after.
But HE has the right to tell us that we should be afraid.
Two rugby guys from the club I now belong to were on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. I can’t even think about going to the movie. They are real people to me. We had memorial services for them. Our club adopted our local firehouse in their memeory. A firehouse which lost 1/2 it’s members.
I was driving home from a weekend in the mountains yesterday when my daughter and I saw two military planes and started surfing through the radio stations to see if there was some news bulleten.
When I was a little girl, during the height of the “get under your desks” nuke raid drills, I NEVER knew how to ID military aircraft or thought to check for news alerts.
My little girl does. She can even tell the difference between fighter planes and reconizance planes. Why? Because for months after 9 11 the sky over our house was full of them.
But he needs to remind me to be afraid?
2 things on the nomination of Paulson earlier. bush made a big deal about how the benefits of all those tax cuts were kicking in and causing all the good news in our economy. and then the announcer (i think i was listening to npr) made the point that Paulson was chosen because they needed someone who could convince the public that our “good economy” is due to Bush, and Snow wasn’t able to do this. yep.
CK at 43
Whoops. You are right! Am slapping self on forehead. I knew, or should have known, that. Had a Dan Quale moment. One of many I am afraid.
lhp & angie –
The fact that defense counsel and Congressional attorneys were barred from Jefferson’s office during the execution of the search warrant makes me think this was a Rovian ratfuck.
Jonathan Turley has raised the specter of the evidence being thrown out because of prosecutorial misconduct during the search, and that sure looks like what happened.
Josh Marshall and Barney Frank both make the case that the felony exemption in the Congressional protection makes the search legitimate; botching it with bad execution opens the door for Hastert, Ney, Lewis, and all of the other dirty GOoPers to quash searches before warrants are requested.
In the meantime, the DoJ interrogates Congressmen in the search for the NEA leakers — which clearly crosses the line of intimidation. Does Hastert complain?
crickets chirping . . .
looseheadprop at 95 — no word as yet why they were barred. And I had the same thoughts re: having witnesses to ensure integrity of process. The Sensenbrenner hearing folks were saying something to the effect that they had gotten no answers from DoJ or FBI on this as yet.
So Much for the Pre-Election Troop Withdrawal?
co-hate-us interrupt-us
Mary at 90
Re: SCOTUS. This is really bad.
Really, really bad. Sick to my stomache bad.
I need to locate and read that opinion. Maybe the briefs. This is huge bad.
Mary, how are you ALWAYS first with this stuff? You got a crystal ball or somethin’ ?
Anthony:
Four years ago the Powell Doctrine would’ve art least served us better than Rumsfeld’s ridiculous, arrogant folly. Now we don’t have the troops necessary and the ones we do have are burned out. What you aren’t willing to recognize is that it’s. too. late.
This nation is no longer willing to support the horror that Iraq has become. Haditha only punctuates this reality. You’re living in a time warp. You’re looking at life in a rear view mirror. The car has broken through the guard rails.
Your thinking no longer applies.
P.S. We don’t need to bash Bush. He’s a walking irrelevancy. A dingleberry on the arsehole of what was once a proud nation.
lhp @98 –
The thanks is indeed for sharing.
Opening up as you did is a great witness to the power of community. There are some big shoes around this place, that have walked down some damn painful paths. In sharing those stories – as you did – we prove to each other and the world that pain and death and the fear thereof need not rule us and the way we live our lives. Fear can make us go into our shells or into our caves, or (as you demonstrated) we can choose to live otherwise.
I like that, by and large, we try not to feed the trolls around here. Your words were great, as even the trolls can stand a good witness now and then.
(Can a preacher get an Amen to that?)
John Casper
I don’t know what to say about the repost of my comment to the troll who thinks we are all loons. It was sweet of you. I didn’t think anybody but me and the couple of trolls were still on that thread.
CK- When I wrote my previous comment about why they didn’t allow witnesses tothe search, I also wrote “Ismell a rat. A really stinky rat” and then deleted it b/c I didn’t want to jump to any conclusions.
But I think you are right. A Rovian rat fuck.
So, Gonzales et al go up to the Hill and pretend to get spanked, and use that as an escuse for not letting career people in DOJ do their jobs.
This is just like deneying the security clearances to the lawyers in the Professional Integrity Unit so they can’t investigate the NSA wiretaps.
It will be virtually the same technique.
You know, back in the long long ago when I did public corruption cases, I used to bitch and moan about how half my job was figuring out how not to get blocked from actually doing my job. And I was at the recieving end of more htan y fair share of political pressure and dirty tricks.
But I have NEVER seen anything like this.
And you wonder why I admire the big man in the rumpled suit SOOO much! he is still walking through the minefeild without a scratch.
Yeah, he’s my football(erm, rugby) hero.
looseheadprop says: “I need to locate and read that opinion.”
May 30th, 2006 at 9:57 am
Here is a link to it: http://www.supremecourtus.gov/…..04-473.pdf
Stephen CPA,
What a lovely gift! Thank you kind sir.
That’s faster than I could have looke dit up on Nexus.
Why is everybody so much faster than me?
Dennis X,
You are absolutely correct. Every decision made, every lie told, was to win the 2002 and 2004 elections. To avoid Soviet Unions mistakes in Afghanistan, President Bush would have had made decisions that would have jeopardized his reelection:
He would have used development, international organizations, legal systems and moral high ground to combat fundamentalist Islam.
He would have started the draft. The current force structure can support only an expeditionary force of 150,000; inadequate to pacify even Afghanistan alone.
He would have raised taxes to pay for the war.
He would not have acted out as the War President.
lhp @ 98
(earlier response disappeared . . . let’s try it again)
The thanks are indeed for sharing.
Lots of people around here have been down some damn painful paths, and by sharing those with each other we bear witness to the fact that pain and death and the fear thereof does not need to rule our lives. That’s the power of community – to hold up for each other the power that keeps us from running into our caves or hiding in our shells.
One of the things I like about this place is that, by and large, we avoid feeding the trolls. On the other hand, even the trolls need a good witness now and then, and you certainly gave them one.
Now can a preacher get an “Amen” to that?
Peterr–Amen and say ye amen, everybody…
Writing about this war and what to do about it is really futile. We knew nothing about the people we are fighting before we went there, and we still know nothing about them. All speculation about the remedy for Bush’s folly of staring war with these people is behind the same wall of ignorance.
To solve this, if, indeed, that is possible, this country needs to call in the real experts on Islam, on the various sub-headings of Islam, of Iraqi history, ancient and modern, on the language, and, to extend it to the rest of the Middle East, on all their cultures.
To show some respect for a civilization would be the first step to ending conflict, but this country has never shown this to the Middle East, nor, has Europe. Ignorance is the operative word, and we will pay for ours for the rest of our lives: death, war, mistrust, destruction of families, destruction of the basic infrastructure of modern life.
The first step is to demand that Rumsfelt and those who produced the folly of war for Bush to resign! Then, this silly Congress must hold the hearings, or establish a commission to conduct the study outlined above.
Now my first response shows up . . . go figure.
Far from cursing the glitch, it makes me think of my grandma, who would have loved it. She always taught me to say thank you, and to see me say it twice . . .
:-)
In a backhanded sort of way I emailed my local Canadian parliament rep and asked if/when the current minority conservatives would help bush out in Iraq. I’m egging these back-pocket bush lovers to take a stand. As a war protester I am glad my country did not stand up with bush but I feel its time for some humanitarian efforts and some good ole Canadian peace keeping. I know that the conservative leader would love nothing more than to send troops to make himself and his cons look tough on terror but I want to hear my government say that Canadian troops are not going in to kill but to be kind to those that are so freakin neglected by bush’s war.
Just 24 hours after the United States commemorated Memorial Day, the American people are being reminded once again of President Bush’s folly in going to war in Iraq with too few troops. The American commander in Iraq General George Casey is dispatching up to 3,500 reinforcements from Kuwait to turbulent Anbar province in Iraq.
For the story, see:
“The Price of Folly: Reinforcements to Iraq.”
OK – I think everyone gets that Bush has made a royal mess of things in Iraq.
My Powell reference merely posits the following inescapable challenge:
We broke it. It’s ours. Now we must fix it.
How do we do that?
(Not even Murtha would contend that his is a plan to “fix” Iraq. But at least McCain, Clinton (Hillary), Kerry and others recognise that, like it or not, this is the challenge we face.)
PLEASE…EVERYONE STOP USING THE PHRASE “PRE-EMPTIVE WAR:” THAT GIVES THE SLIGHTEST LEGITIMACY TO HIS TRAGIC FOLLY.
IT IS A PRETEXT WAR. A PRETEXT WAR.
I think what is tying the military’s hands and tongues is the sure and certain knowledge that if they speak out they can plan to spend the rest of their army career in an outpost north of the Arctic circle never rising above the rank of Pfc. As for the retired military, I don’t know. Misguided loyalty to the troops?
Failure in Iraq and the current chaos are not just the result of bad planning on Bushco’s part (or on the part the Cheney Administration, as billmon would say). Just as serious (and this has to do with the preemptive bit) is that Bush and the flaming neocons have absolutely no sense of politics.
By that, I mean the idea that, in this case, a war needs to have a political framework around it to make it work. That is part of the fucking Powell doctrine!
Anyway, there was no thought given to politics, ever, neither on the international (coalition) level, nor on the ground in Iraq. And that is because these guys don’t believe in it, so they don’t think about this stuff. Not suprising considering how they got into office in the first place.
Oh to hell with it – I give up.
Mark — give up on what?
You know, I don’t have a lot of patience with talk of “owning” and “fixing” Iraq – as if it was within the capability of this administration to fix anything.
LHP at 22:
I guess I wasn’t clear, and of course, I’m late in responding. My dismay results from the military not being truthy when asked about specifics on the current military situation in Iraq, as a present example, but there are others over the spread of the last 30-40 years. I would argue that when DoD lies about the actual military situation, they are in fact being political–i.e. supporting the party in power in the Executive. Short term it helps them. Long term, it undermines the public’s overall trust in them.
#118 – Anthony, although I applaud your resolution to our “fixing” Iraq, sadly we are way beyond any possible military solution. In point of fact, as Rep. Murtha has so eloquently pointed out (and ALL the facts on the ground support his contentions), our continued presence is exacerbating the situation. This war was never winnable militarily regardless of which of the myriad of decisions that BushCo gave us for why we went to war in Iraq in the 1st place you choose to subscribe to (all of which were lies I may add). The biggest problem here is that many members of the misadministration (including our Secretary of State) view the use of diplomacy as a sign of weakness when, in fact, it is a sign of strength. This war has never been about “bringing Democracy to Iraq” or finding Weapons of Mass Destruction (which virtually everyone in our intelligence community repeatedly told the White House weren’t there) or even removing Sadaam Hussein from power (his country had been effectively crippled by 10 years of sanctions). This war is, and always has been, about American hegemony. Go read any of the multiple papers written by the Project for a New American Century (www.newamericancentury.org) addressing America’s role in the world and it will all become clear to you. At any rate, our continued military presence in Iraq is causing a great deal of the strife and violence that are happening there. The ONLY viable solution to the quagmire that Iraq has become is for the Iraqis to work in concert with their neighbors in the region (yes, even Iran) to reach a level of stability on their own. They’re never going to get there if we continue to coddle them and hold their hand. I’m reminded of the first time I took the training wheels off of my daughter’s bike. She didn’t experience a sense of accomplishment (”Daddy, I’m doing it by myself”) until I let go of the seat. It’s time for the US to let go of the seat of Iraq and watch things from a small distance (As Rep. Murtha suggested, staging marines in Kuwait or Qatar) in case they stumble. Of course, in order to do that, we would have to also relinquish control of the mega-bases, the largest (and most expensive) embassy in the world, and our stranglehold (well, Halliburton and Bechtel’s) on the energy industry there and these things will never happen under the administration we have now. Sadly, the individuals really paying the price for our folly in Iraq are those that yesterday’s holiday are meant to honor as well as the innocent Iraqis (those that haven’t fled Iraq that is) who are being killed by the dozens every single day.
Git ready for that ‘helicopter moment’. Thing of it is that you in this thread who are saying we need to ‘fix’ this etc. do not understand what has happened.
We lost.
‘Victory’ will not be ours.
Not because we didn’t implement the liar Powell’s doctrine, which is a crock of shit anyway.
Iraq is not our country.
We cannot impose our will on the citizens there. Whether we are doing it to steal their oil or ‘bring them Democracy’ does not matter. We cannot impose our will on another sovereign people.
Don’t agree?
Well then, you don’t know much about history. No nation-state has ever imposed the sort of cultural and societal change on another that the Idiot BushMonkey claimed he was going to on Iraq and the rest of the Middle-East.
Not one.
Plenty have tried. Some for decades, the French then America vs. Vietnam; some at the cost of millions dead, Germany vs. Russia WWII; some to become free, America vs. England 1776.
To maintain that this can be done is a sure sign that you are at the least a jingoist and at the worst a racist.
The only option for us now is to leave Iraq.
Warm up the choppers!
Karl Rove’s advice to Bush that Iraq would lock up the national security issue for the Republicans and bolster them in 2002 and 2004 was undoubtedly a key reason for the war. Rove had blood on his hands.
I’ve asked a lot of bush supporters to name one single thing that bush has done that benefits all Americans. Just one, or even one thing he’s done right.
Most stopped talking to me, the others ignored the question.