
Crooks and Liars has a clip of Rep. Murtha’s interview on This Week yesterday. They talked about the deaths at Haditha, but they also spent time talking about Marine officers who were recently discharged — possibly because some of their men voiced concerns about the readiness levels of Iraqi forces to some British media and Rumsfeld got wind of it.
The NYTimes has more on Haditha — and elsewhere – this morning, and it’s painful, gut-wrenching stuff:
In the home Ms. Abdullah escaped from, she said American troops also shot and killed a 4-year-old nephew named Abdullah Walid. She said her mother-in-law, Khumaysa Tuma Ali, 66, died after being shot in the back. Two brothers-in-law, Jahid Abdul Hamid Hassan and Walid Abdul Hamid Hassan, were also killed, she said.
In addition to Ms. Abdullah and Asma’s baby, two others survived. One, 9-year-old Iman Walid Abdul Hamid, said she ran quickly, still clad in her pajamas, to hide under the bed with her younger brother, Abdul Rahman Walid Abdul Hamid, when she saw what was happening.
"We were scared and could not move for two hours. I tried to hide under the bed," she said, but both her and her brother, Abdul Rahman, were hit with shrapnel.
Abdul Rahman, 7, said very little about that day. "When they killed my father Walid, I hid in bed," he said.
Hiba Abdullah assumed the two children had died, but she said they were later found at a local hospital.
One Haditha victim was an elderly man, close to 80 years old, killed in his wheelchair as he appeared to be holding a Koran, according to the United States defense official, who described information collected during the investigation. An elderly woman was also killed, as were a mother and a child who were "in what appeared to be a prayer position," the official said.
Some victims had single gunshot wounds to the head, and at least one home where people were shot to death had no bullet marks on the walls, inconsistent with a clearing operation that would typically leave bullet holes, the official added.
There is no excuse for this. None. But I am sick and tired of the grunts ont he ground taking the brunt of whatever punishment gets meted out, while Donald Rumsfeld stays on the job — and the cadre of yes men with which he surrounds himself, both civilian and military, who perpetuate this mess never face reprimand.
In the Bush Administration, only the little guy pays a price. Anyone who actually comes up with a failed policy gets a promotion or a medal. Pathetic. And the fact that this has been covered up at the Pentagon for months is shameful — and disrespectful to every soldier, from the lowliest grunt to the highest level officer, who is trying to serve the nation with any sense of dignity and honor under conditions that, mercifully, most of us will never face in our lifetimes.
I come from a long line of family members who have served our nation in uniform. Most of my older relatives would only talk about their service well into a bottle of Wild Turkey, but the stories I have heard were enough to make me weep for the dreams that they must still have at night.
This behavior at Haditha is not — NOT — who we are as Americans. But the policies that have been put forward by Rumsfeld and his cronies, to do war on the cheap, to use up the soldiers like they were so many game pieces and not human beings who bleed, who ache, who try to retain some sense of humanity in the face of the explosions and the shots and everything else…well, it hasn’t been working for quite a while.
Folks like Murtha and all those retired generals have started speaking up — not just because the policies are wrong and because of their long-term damage to this country, but because they fear that our nation’s military will be broken altogether. All that Republican whining that Democrats and peaceniks and whatever other name they want to use are trying to gut the military is so ironic now — given that it is this Republican President who may succeed in breaking the Army and the Marines all on his own.
One of our readers, who is a retired Marine, wrote in yesterday, and I wanted to be sure that everyone saw this:
I’m a retired Marine, still living and working…for the Marines, and I’m sick at heart over this unfolding story about the murder of Iraqi civilians in Haditha. I am hoping that the Marine Corps is going to investigate this thoroughly and release it all to the public. It’s a very sad Memorial Day for me for a lot of reasons. I’m sick at heart over this news, and seething with pent-up anger over this terrible war. I am hoping so much that the upcoming mid-terms will be the sea-change that opens the door to throwing these criminals out of office, but I am also so angry at the feckless responses from the Dems – Pelosi, Schumer, the whole lot of them.
It is time for everyone to stand up and be counted against George Bush’s piss-poor decisions and this folly of a war in Iraq. Our men and women in uniform cannot do so themselves — they are forbidden by the UCMJ from protesting against military policies of the President (despite the GOP using folks in uniform as props at campaign events, they aren’t supposed to do that either — but it’s the person in uniform who risks the trouble, not the politician…).
Bob Geiger, a vet himself, has a fantastic post this morning on what this Memorial Day means to him. I wanted to share a piece of it with you:
As someone whose biggest, personal military stress was planning how to quietly desert his post in the Air National Guard, Bush has no idea what battle really looks like. Leading our military and the results of war are all an abstraction to him and it is with deadly consequences that Bush handles this responsibility like a young boy playing with toy soldiers on a dirt pile in the back yard. He has never seen young soldiers die or seen everything they would ever become draining from their bodies as they die far away from a parent or spouse’s final embrace.
We have lost thousands, have many thousands more who have been maimed for life and an untold number who will suffer the psychological effects of this war for a lifetime. Our current leadership has also caused the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians and destroyed the reputation and good faith we formerly enjoyed with other nations and that was earned by so many others we remember today.
And somehow this president has found a way to make some Veterans ashamed to publicly observe Memorial Day, because doing so means indirectly associating ourselves with a hollow cause, a paper-tiger of a Commander-in-Chief and the man responsible for too many of the deaths we honor at the end of each May.
So, I will stay away from the parades and the speeches today.
Instead, I will sit quietly and perhaps sip a beer in honor of friends I once had who are no longer alive. I’ll also take the time to reflect on the debt we owe all who have died wearing our country’s uniform and to mourn in advance those who will face a pointless death in the coming hours, days, weeks and months in Iraq.
How we work our way out of this unholy mess, I have no idea. But we have to start somewhere. And perhaps that somewhere is just speaking up about how wrong all of this is — and that our nation’s military deserves better than half-assed planning and then bearing the blame when things go wrong.
It starts at the top. I can’t personally fire George Bush, much as I would like to do so at this point. But I can start insisting that Rumsfeld has to go.
Do our nation’s military a favor — fire Donald Rumsfeld.
UPDATE: There’s more from the TimesOnlineUK. (H/T to reader Kent.)



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fitzzzz!
fecund???
byrd!
ok, that’s enough. I will now read your post christie — always a joy for me here at night, when you are just beginning your morning…
Gang, Fiona has a nasty ear infection. We had to go to the doctor yesterday — and she barfed pretty much all afternoon and evening. Luckily we found someone open, and even better the WalMart pharmacy was still open, but it’s going to be a long slog today. Some patience from everyone would be very much appreciated from a tired momma.
did anyone else go to the concert at the U.S. Capitol last night? It was short on music and long on propaganda. I had to leave. Others were leaving too. I think the program was scripted by Donald Rumsfeld.
This video provides food for thought on this Memorial Day…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc5j-i2nMX4
…and the disgusting pig ELISABETH BUMILLER is already touting another bushreich regime on the front page to the neocon times.
lina at 6 — what a shame that the music was short-changed for dreck. The mall area is such a fantastic place for a concert — for them to to waste that opportunity is really awful.
excuse me, OF the neocon times. anger causes typos.
hang in there, Christy … give your all to the Peanut — the fabulous commenters here (i only aspire, LOL) can surely keep everything moving…
christy at 9:
One added embarassment was Lee Ann Womack singing Stand Up and Dance for the Iraq war veterans who were the honored guests. This, after the front page of the Wapo yesterday had a huge feature story with photos about Iraq vets losing limbs at an alarming rate. It was appalling.
Christy,
All my sympathies. I’m home right now with strep (myself) and my seven year old woke up this morning with croup that is really an asthma attack. This is still pretty new to us, she was just diagnosed this winter, so every serious attack is, well, serious. Plus she always has them on sundays or holidays and previously we’ve ended up in the ER.
I’ve been through the barfing and the ear infections too. My thoughts are with you.
aimai
Contrasts in medical care. I was visiting friends in Victoria Canada two years ago when their daughter became sick during the evening. They called the provider on call service and a physician came to the house in about an hour. An exam was performed, an injection of antibiotics given and Rx for oral antibiotics dispensed right from the “On Call” providers supply. Three days later a follow up visit was made by the same provider to their home.
Total Cost ??? $8.00 Canadian….
The family was paying $1100/year for their national health care for a family of 4.
There was a recent PR bit about Walmart putting Urgent Care or “Drop in” Clinics for the same thing that is in every strip mall in Victoria. They were whinning about the wait time to see a provider, they thought 2 weeks was too long so they put developed the “Drop in” Clinics. We call it the “Doc in a box” concept, but there is nothing wrong with them if it keeps the hospital ER’s for true emergencies.
Christy, I hope you get a chance for a nap today…
Support our troops,
Bring them home..now.
Not to inspire competition among blogs, but take a stroll on over to the Huffington Post and read the comments by the Bush/Iraq war supporters (although one must conclude that they are simply Bush cultists because, seriously, is there any doubt that if Clinton or Gore had gotten us into this debacle and run it in such an incompetent, negligent manner, they’d be supporting it?) about how critics of the Haditha slaughter are traitors (what else!) and that the execution-style slaughter of civilians in a war that was supposedly started to stop and prevent the slaughter and brutalizing of Iraqis is justified because al Qaeda is beheading people, or some such thing.
I’ve always been fascinated by the Bush theory that you liberate brutalized people by bringing the front in a war they had nothing to do with to their country.
My conclusion: the marines who did this will only become war criminals at the point they decide to run for public office as a Democrat. Until then, no war crimes have been committed, anyone who says so is a traitor, and war crimes are retroactive and become such only when, as stated, a veteran runs for office as a Democrat, but even then no war crimes were committed but the candidate is a war criminal and the press is treasonous for printing the story, that didn’t happen, in the first place…
Okay, I’m dizzy now and may soon join the barfing club, but I think I’ve got the Bush philosophy down pat.
Christy, you poor thing. A mama’s day is never dull huh?
Yet another sad Memorial day for this country. To think how far we have fallen since the greatest generation put our military above anything the world had ever seen. True, we may be more powerful now, but at what cost? We have no more moral high ground now that we use Saddam as out measuring stick. Pathetic. But what do you expect from an idiot like Rummy who is convinced that the only reason Vietnam went bad was because of Jane Fonda.
This country desparately needs a truth commission, perhaps run by Canadians and Germans, about how and why we got into Iraq, what has happened, what is happening, and ideas for geting the hell out and rebuilding–(we should pay for it, but the iraqis and other folks do the work).
I’m sick to death of Bush and his denzions of death, his glorifying death, and his lying about death. Enough.
Much love and get well wishes to Fiona.
I am praying for our troops and for the families of the men and women who will not come home from Iraq. This war is the darkest folly in our nation’s history. We will be counting the cost for generations.
On this day we should all keep this number in mind also.
18,200.
According to the Department of Defense thats the number of Americans that have been wounded in Iraq since the invasion and occupation began.
18,200
My thoughts are with you and Fiona.
My younger son had so many ear infections, the doc finally said he should chew gum 3 times a day for an hour at a time, just to keep the eustachian tubes open and drained, I guess. Next step was tubes. We didn’t get to that step, luckily.
Five words: Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Rice Hague.
This behavior at Haditha is NOT who we are as Americans.
Don’t know how many people had the same experience I did, where I had to open up my local paper to page three to find out there had been an earthquake that killed many thousands in Indonesia. When war casualties are mentioned on CNN and elsewhere, it almost always includes only American military casualties, omitting not just Iraqis, both civilian and military, but even coalition forces. This level of passive jingoism is who we are as Americans. And while I agree that Haditha is not representative, I do think that the casual chauvanism that we display towards those outside of our tribe, is both representative and all too often tolerated without comment.
Giant U.S. Embassy project dismays Iraqis
Everyone knows we won’t be leaving anytime soon.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..;cset=true
Katymine 14:
Only in BC and Alberta do families pay at all for their health premiums.
In the other provinces, it’s part of the tax base.
I am in Arizona, not Iowa, today, helping my 87-year old father leave a house he has been in for over 40 years. Among the artifacts to be dealt with are momentos from WWII. Dad landed after D-Day in Normandy, was wounded in time to miss the Battle of the Bulge, and went back to finish the war in Germany, coming home with two bronze stars.
On this Memorial Day, I am reflecting on the great sense of purpose that motivated him to volunteer and to fight that war. They thought they were saving the world, and they may have. He knew why he was there. When he was wounded, he believed in the cause he gave blood for.
Since then, we have let our leaders send our brothers and children off to fight in wars that the leaders themselves did not believe in. That is the significance of the Plame case, to me. The leaders knew better, and sent our soldiers anyway, for reasons that they have still not owned up to. After Vietnam, I thought we were smarter and more wary than to let that happen again, but I was wrong. Worse, the planning was deadly incompetent.
I think that Rumsfeld’s resignation is long overdue, and it would at least put a crimp in the planning for Iran if he were booted out.
Full sympathy to everyone in your household Christy.
From here
Read the reports: “a convoy was attacked” … “an IED targetting a convoy” … “a convoy came under fire” …
The other thing of course is that in real terms the ground forces have had their funding and size cut. That “leaner meaner” army may be great at defeating a suitably “shocked and awed” conventional army. But you havent’t with the exception of “Desert Storm” fought a conventional war since Korea. It’s now so bad that sailors and airforce ground personnel are being given ground duties after what’s been described to me by US army people as a “half assed” training course. That means they’ll panic and do the job badly when attacked.
Christy it’s not enough to go after Rumsfeld and the civilian pack of war mongers. I have no time for Colin Powell but he was a strong character as chief of staff. The ones sinces him have (deliberately) been been chosen to be ….. pliable. You need as well to go after – and punish, the generals who failed to stick up for there men.
“Most of my older relatives would only talk about their service well into a bottle of Wild Turkey…”
Yeah, same for the few times my Dad has talked about his experiences in WWII. It broke my heart, and even more to realize that there was obviously stuff he still couldn’t talk about.
This is what war does to decent people – it breaks them forever. Fuck all the bastards who say “Bring it on”.
There are justso many things happening that are NOT who we are as Americans, that a conclusion – that this is PRECISELY who we are as Americans – looms. And as applied to the Bush administration, its 29% following of frothing damn-anyone-who-isn’t-like-me hatebots, and nearly every member of a criminally complacent Congress, the conclusion is apt.
But at the core, in its people, America is still strong and good. We rail, entirely properly, that the politicians should police their own and rid us of these fools and charlatans. We rail that the public won’t stand up and scream for their heads. While we do so, I think we forget sometimes to realize that 70% of this country knows quite well that we’re in a hell of a mess, and are waiting for the next chance at the ballot-box to do his or her part in fixing it. I want more – I want it faster- I can’t understand what’s taking so long. But that 70% is still there, waiting to set things straight in a more quiet, traditional (American?) way. Our job, I think, is to make damn sure they don’t forget to do so. Information is becoming dear; truth harder to find.
All things considered, I really believe that we’re gonna be all right.
And the world knows, I think, that this blighted period of our history is an aberration. The world awaits our return – and it’s coming.
From here. The title btw is the title chosen by the provider not me. As best I can determine it was a mixed patrol of combat marines and civil affairs people.
my post, in all its brilliance, is evidently lost and floating around in the ether somehere….
And we’re all the poorer. Heh
Right on, Sharkbabe; I would add one more word: Now.
oh – there it is . Never mind.
Donald H. Rumsfeld.
The H is for Hell’s-Own.
Nir Rosen beats up Tim Russert’s delusion about Iraq with an ugly stick.
And Haditha ends all delusions about moral authority.
I’m a reservist, USAF, who fought in Desert Storm but have, thankfully, been able to sit out THIS debacle in Iraq. I have long harbored mixed feelings about the first Gulf War, throughout which I had to constantly repeat to myself almost as a prayer or mantra, “This is not a war for oil. This is not a war for oil. I’m not bombing people into oblivion for oil.”
That mantra worked, somewhat, at the time but there’s no chance of that working this time. On many levels the current war in Iraq that is FAR less defensible than the first one. That I haven’t been called to go there is a blessing because I would be churned and roiled up inside trying to deal with being sent to fight in an illegal and immoral war.
What makes me sickest at heart of all, however, is that I no longer feel pride in the flag. I no longer feel anything but contempt whenever the Star Spangled Banner or America the Beautiful is sung/played and we have to salute the flag. I don’t trust the command structure and don’t fully trust those in my immediate cohort at my unit: A JAG officer, not too long ago, gave us our annual Law of Armed Conflict briefing. Before this briefing I liked and respected the LtCol. Normally, these last few years, the briefing is actually the playing of a well-made, even interesting, video of a high ranking JAG officer from the Pentagon that goes over the law and other rules. Not this time, however. This time the local JAG officer gave a seemingly off-the-cuff, informal briefing during which he jokingly played down the Law of Armed Conflict and the Geneva Conventions as applied to THIS war and its participants on the “other side”. He indicated that the rules don’t really apply as stated for enemy combatants and that the talk in the media about it is nonsense. He didn’t outright state that they do NOT apply, he just indicated that the full range of protections afforded by LOAC and Geneva, etc, were not applicable in this situation. I was sickened and shocked. This was months ago yet even now when I think about it, it still makes me feel a big lead ball form in the pit of my stomach. It enrages me and makes me cry whenever I think about it in private moments. I do not respect this person any longer and I am losing respect for some of my subordinates as well…those that seem to be fully bought into the GOP/Bush party line on what makes a legal war, how one treats prisoners, etc.
I joined the military proudly and with a deep sense of love for my country and the flag…and a deep sense of honor. I bought into what turns out to have been mere propaganda about officership, duty, honor. These last 5 years has turned it all to crap. I consider simply quitting because it is hard for me to find any honor in much of what has been going on. I feel sympathy and warmth for my comrades in arms, in particular the groundpounders who bear the brunt of the fighting in Iraq, but at the same time I can’t help but feel some suspicion when I meet one…is this guy one of the honorable or did he play the Admin wargame of anything goes? I HATE that I feel this way. I HATE that I can no longer salute with pride the flag while the Anthem plays. All I can think is that “I am saluting because my uniform requires it of me.”
I am supposed to be working on my Command and Staff College courses now. I am a major and for me to make LtCol I have to fill this square. I quickly lost my motivation to do it when I got to the early sections on duty and honor. How can I take that crap seriously? It’s all just words on paper that is liable to get one punished if actually carried out and practiced in this “special” war. I am left, at this point, with a selfish reason for staying (so far): I am 5 years from getting my 20 years and being eligible for retirement. This as the prime motivation for stayingh in sickens me only slightly less than reasons I see for flat-out quitting now.
I will NOT be party to ANY violations of LOAC, Geneva Convention, Conventions against Torture, and the supposed code of conduct. I almost wish I’d get an order that violates any or all of them so I could refuse and outright act with insubordination.
Thanks from the bottom of my heart, “Mr President”, Cheney, Rummy, and the rest of you lot. You’ve forever poisoned the well for me.
If it’s not in the links above – PauL Hackett will be representing one of the three ‘relieved’ commanders: Capt. Kimber – mentioning it only b/c Paul will be guest hosting for Ed Schulz today and will probably be talking about it
Ed Schulz
btw, Ed is usually on around 2pm Central Time
but I’m sure you can find it in the link
markfromireland,
a friend tells me that the insurgency contact percentage on the locs are approaching 75%
18200. That’s just a mind boggling number. Those are just individuals though…think about all of their families. How many of these people aren’t going to be able to afford to raise their children? It’s a terrible tragedy in every respect.
Cathy # 24.
Many in the Christian right felt that Saddam Hussein rebuilding ancient “Babylon” was biblical prophesy…..I think the American-Romans are rebuilding their new Babylon in the form of the largest embassy the world has ever seen.
And I’m not even a believer.
-GSD
Terminus Est,
Thank you for your service.
I think a huge element of this war is Bush’s ego. I firmly believe he is a megalomaniac.
There is no doubt that, for Cheney, this war IS about oil.
But I have always been bothered by Bush’s comments from 1999 about wanting to be seen as a great leader via being a commander-in-chief and getting political capital from being a wartime president. His language is the same today as it was back then.
It horrifies me to no end to think that all these people are dying and being maimed, lives torn apart, our economy being hit like it is, terrorism growing, etc., because one man wanted to play commander-in-chief in order to gain “great leader” status and for political reasons.
But what horrifies me even more is the seeming lack of outrage by Americans over all of this. Poll numbers are low, but that is a different thing that active outrage.
Where is it?
Larry,
That sounds about right to me. Sorry delay replying pesky telephone rang :-(
I read these song lyrics this morning, and I think they’re a fitting “tribute” to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their cronies, especially on Memorial Day.
Masters of War, by Bob Dylan
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain
You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people’s blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud
You’ve thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain’t worth the blood
That runs in your veins
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I’m young
You might say I’m unlearned
But there’s one thing I know
Though I’m younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul
And I hope that you die
And your death’ll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I’ll stand o’er your grave
‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead
Great/tragic post, Christy. You speak eloquently for many.
“It starts at the top. I can’t personally fire George Bush, much as I would like to do so at this point. But I can start insisting that Rumsfeld has to go.”
Amen.
But by the same logic, why can’t we fire George Bush, too? Where is that written?
George, you’re fired. And take your VP, and your Sec. of State, and your Attorney General, and all the rest with you.
Spread the word.
After viewing the video of the young soldier praying while under fire, there is nothing more to be said in favor of war. No one should be killing anyone else for any reason. Murder is murder and when one does it at the insistance of one’s government, it is a crime to which all we citizens are accomplices.
Where is the cleanliness of thought and logic to counter arguments in favor of war? War is irrational, evil, and destroys the civilization which engages in it.
Terminus #36
Wow. As an American citizen, I thank you. I almost wish that you get your wish – to take a stand against this criminal regime and their whole-hearted disposal of the laws that govern the military … well, actually that govern anything. I almost wish that I could join the military, if only to stand with you.
If we have any chance of saving the last thin threads of our democracy still waving in the breeze, it is with people like you who are sufficiently courageous to stand up against the corporate fascists.
Thank you.
Terminus est at 0738,
It makes my heart cry to read the frustration and despair in your post.
I am very proud of your service and every military person.
I’m a vet, though I had the good fortune to serve only during peacetime. Nevertheless, the time I spent serving in the military and later, working as a civilian overseas with the U.S. Army gave me a deep respect for soldiers of all ranks and from all walks of life. in the civilian world, we speak of selfless service as volunteers, and while there are indeed such selfless individual in all of our communities, they’re few on the vine compared to thousands of soldiers who volunteer to serve their country. These men and women deserve our honor and respect — and sending them to fight an illegal war for rich, corrupt politicians who see them as nothing more than cannon fodder for their grand delusions is reprehensible.
I’m appalled by what happened at Haditha. I know that none of the marines involved, in other circumstances, would ever have taken part in such a horrific, dishonorable action. The marines are all about honor. And yet their leaders — the ones who put them in the chaotic horror of Iraq — walk free and are allowed to plot and plan the next great shame, never thinking about the lives they’re destroying.
My Memorial Day, too, will be one of somber sadness and growing anger on behalf of our great country and its selfless soldiers — and also the innocents who are dying by the hundreds as a result of their presence in Iraq. This travesty must end.
CNN is just reporting that two embedded CBS journalists were just killed in Iraq and correspondent Kimberley Dozier was severely wounded in an attack on a US military unit…no reports yet on any US military casualties…
Good Morning everyone,
Christy – hoping Fiona is feeling better and you somehow find some rest – used to notice a let down once the kids were well that sometimes kicked my butt.
Terminus Est @ 36 -
Welcome to FDL
thank you for your service and your willingness to sacrifice on our behalf. Many who have never served, myself included are feeling much of what you describe today – embarassment and downright shame at what is being done in our names – it is a wholesale and daily dishonoring of all this nation has accomplished for the common good in the past
Our family has found some motivation in the words of a so called draft dodger -
All that is right with America can heal all that is wrong with America
and that means folks like you – we need every conscientious Airman, Solider, Marine we can get our hands on –
this link is a short, but thought provoking post on Haditha I have not been able to shake since I read it friday night (h/t C&L)
http://www.tristram-shandy.com…..arine.html
Terminus Est — Thank you. In a very much smaller, very much less significant way, I’ve had the same feelings. After 9/11, I shared in the nearly univeral American upsurge of patriotism. I actually bought a couple of American flag pins and wore them with pride. Then BushCo and Faux News turned flag pins into the functional equivalent of a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker, and I put my pins in a bottom drawer. I can’t look at them now without getting angry.
If you can tolerate it at all, please stay in the reserve. It isn’t just about the pension, which you have surely earned. It’s that if the good guys leave, who will be left to say no? Who will be left to bear witness? Duty and honor do still mean something. You are living proof of that.
Our (my wife and I) passports say we’re Americans, we loved America, but no more; we left in 2004 (a href=”http://www.possumworld.com”>blog) and it’s reached the point where we don’t even feel like going back for a vacation or something. This war has broken our hearts.
Margaret @ 44. No argument from me.
Lupin,
always, always, always look forward to reading your comments over at Gilliards – hope you’ll reserve a regular spot on your itenerary for FDL
Dear Christy; while I agree with your post it is only 99%. When you say that, “This behavior at Haditha is not – NOT – who we are as Americans,” you are wrong. From the very beginning of this Bushco disaster I asked when this war’s My Lai would arrive, because in a war, no matter who is fighting and no matter how lofty their goals and no matter how ‘good’ the people are, you will inevitably have a My Lai, a Haditha, or an Abu Ghraib. Human nature and the stress of war combine for extreme acts of both heroism and degradation.
*That* is why Bush and Cheney and all those who sided with them are such disgusting criminals. You don’t have to have been a soldier to know what’s coming. It may give you insight into the daily chaos of war, which is something Bush will never understand, but even the slightest knowledge of history tells you that wars come with atrocities. Leaders who cheat the people into unjust wars are war criminals a thousand times over.
Individual Americans are no better than individual Frenchmen or individual Sudanese. Some are murderers and some are saints. If Americans have an advantage it comes from our particular system of law, democracy and consent of the governed. That’s what keeps any society from the abyss, and now even that is threatened by Bushco. If we don’t take back our government, Haditha and Abu Ghraib will mark the beginning of the end of the American experiment.
Terminus Est –
Thank you for the eloquent post — to see what this crew has done makes any decent American heartsick.
And THANK YOU for serving your country in uniform; it’s never easy, but it is always important and often necessary.
And please — stay in the military. Without officers of conscience like you, the ranks will be filled with sociopaths who think the crime of Haditha is reporting it.
We need soldiers like you — if honor is to be restored to the military and the flag, we need officers like you.
Thanks again . . .
That story about the CBS news crew is here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..1815.shtml
Terminus Est – First and above all, thank you for your service. Reading your words, I have to believe that you are not alone in your feelings. I also have to wonder if the disconnect between what has always been a point of honor in the American military, and the conflicting message you got from the JAG office – which has to also have been given to those serving in combat and reinforced from the highest levels – is exactly the kind of thing that could result in what happened in Haditha.
I think I feel like a lot of people do these days: I still believe in my country, but I no longer believe or trust that those who are running it are interested in anything but their own power and their own interests.
So, like a lot of others today, who – like me – opened their newspapers to find the names of all who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, I just feel sad and queasy and heartsick. For the loss of life, for the loss of what America is supposed to be, for the fear that those who have stolen this precious thing have no intention of giving it back.
Am beginning to wonder if we aren’t on the verge of having to fight the Revolution all over again.
The question also is how many more Haditha’s have happened and will happen. The sicko’s in the white house and the pentagon don’t care about such tragedies. As long as Northrop Grumman and Raytheon keep getting massive amounts of tax $$ to design and build more and more hgideous death weapons, and as long as youth are forced into military service because there aren’t any good jobs out there for them, and when youth meets death weapons and are forced into situuations like wars where civilian casualties are considerd part of the norm, than we are going to continue to have atrocites such as Haditha.
Soldiers, you need to start to rebel against these inhuman and illegal orders.
And we need to start thinking of a sanctuary movement for soldeirs who resist stupidity that will lead to pointless death.
Memorial Day can only be remembered if you make it back home.
Regarding the CBS news crew….
This will probably be somewhere near front and center for one news cycle….then fade away
that old news adage if it bleeds it leads just isnt there any more
however there is a missing blond white girl
In my opinion the Haditha massacre is just the tip of the iceburg. In a war of conquest and occupation the killing of civilians is fairly routine, especially when a generation of soldiers has been raised hearing Arabs referred to ragheads and camel jockeys, among the more mild epithets used. In a guerilla war the resistance relies upon the civilian population for acquiesence if not support. Attacks happen suddenly out of nowhere and the enemy disappears. The desire for revenge among stressed out troops, attempting to perform what is really an impossible mission, can be overwhelming. Every Iraqi becomes the enemy. I have no doubt that there have been countless other massacres in which video cameras were not available to record the evidence.
Vietnam was the same way. The My Lai massacre was at the extreme end of what was a routine strategy to terrorize the civilian population into accepting the American occupation. They were called ’search and destroy’ operations: burn the village, kill the livestock, poison the wells and kill some people.
I still remember the first conversation I had with a combat vet in 1968 who had recently returned from Vietnam. He was a huge, strapping fellow who broke down in tears as he described the sacking of a village and the bayoneting of a baby by one of his comrades.
As Americans we have been bombarded with war propaganda for most of our lives. Collateral damage is normalized, like a car accident, as long as we don’t see it. Massacres are accepted by many as just a part of war, in the same way that broken bones are a part of football. War is a game and we are the fans who keep score at home. This is what it’s like to live in an Empire: propaganda, racism, mass murder, war profiteers and political repression at home.
Parades, patriotic concerts and war memorials aren’t for the purpose of honoring the dead and wounded. Their purpose is to incorporate war into our sense of what is normal and prepare us to accept the next one.
All my best to Fiona. I hope she feels better.
Also I would like to thank all the brave men and woman who have served this country well, remember those who made the ultimate sacrafice, and the families they left behind.
The highest honor that can be bestowed upon these folks is accountability for the ideals they fought for. Amazing that those who never served manipulate the armed forces for their own greed and power.
the severely wounded CBS correspondent was a blond white girl : doesn’t that qualify as major news therefore?
What Argonaut @54 said. I suggest you make that comment a posting in it’s entirety.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5026350.stm
US crash sparks Afghanistan riot
At least seven people have been killed in the Afghan capital Kabul after a traffic accident involving a US military convoy sparked mass rioting.
Hundreds of anti-US protesters clashed with Afghan security forces for two hours, in one of the worst riots since the fall of the Taleban in late 2001.
The protesters moved on to attack buildings in the diplomatic quarter.
There are conflicting reports over whether the US troops in the military convoy fired into the crowd.
Police and armed forces are trying to restore law and order.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin…..nted=print
NYTimes, May 29, 2006
Guantanamo Hunger Strikers Now Number 75
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS : Filed at 11:24 a.m. ET
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) — The number of Guantanamo Bay detainees staging a hunger strike has grown from three to 75, the U.S. military said Monday, reflecting increasing defiance among men who have been held for up to 4 1/2 years, most without charges and with little contact with the outside world.
for rwcole et al :
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/p…..splead.htm
Staffers from the National Republican Congressional Committee are quietly telling GOP House members to prepare for a possible loss in the June 6 special election to fill the seat of Randy “Duke” Cunningham, now in prison for taking bribes. The Southern California district is heavily Republican, but some GOP insiders believe that Democrat Francine Busby will defeat former GOP Rep. Brian Bilbray and go on to win a full term in November. More alarming some worry that a Bilbray defeat could signal the GOP’s loss of control of the House. The NRCC has already pumped $3.1 million into the race. “It is becoming more and more likely,” says one GOP strategist, “that Bilbray will squeak out a victory.” But another longtime Republican operative isn’t so sure. “This is a district we should never lose,” he says. “It’s the stink of Cunningham, and the Bush problem.”
Well then you seem to have assumed that there are alot of “bad” guys. As for the good guys in our military the best thing they could possibly do is leave. If there are enough good ones(which I have to wonder about when I see stories like Haditha) and they leave, noone will be left to fight wars of pleasure. If men condone evil then they can’t be called good men.
Terminus Est – I’m shocked that you have the guile to admit selling your morality for a pension. If you believed in the war, if you thought it was just and fair then I would respect your character but not your intelect. If you felt honor bound to carry out your obligation and protect your fellows then I would respect your honor but not your conviction. As it is, you are intelligent enough to see that it is a black mark on the honor of every American but you don’t have the character or conviction to turn your back on those who would use your life as cannon fodder in a war for profit. For shame.
I honor our troops when their actions are worthy of honor. And I respect their sacrifice when their sacrifice is not in vain. If someone will sacrifice their life for a cause that is not just or worthy of their sacrifice then how can I respect it? They’re not fighting for our freedom like the men who died in WWII. These soldiers are fighting to enrich our “leaders” and any one of them who realises it and still fights is shameful.
please add to the list for trial:
Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Michael Ledeen, David Addington, Ahmed Chalabi, William Kristol, Pat Robertson.
D. Mason (#68):
Your zealotry disrespects the candor and true spirit of Terminus Est’s confession. We are not perfect, and I suspect you are not as well.
Fahrender no I am not perfect, but If I truly believed something was evil, no amount of money could make me support it.
D. Mason at 68 — that takes it a step too far. You have no knowledge whatsoever about the economic position that Terminus Est is in — whether that pension means the difference between feeding his/her family or not, or anything else. You know nothing about the considerations that went into that thought, other than what was posted in a single comment here. I have had it this weekend with personal attack crap. Argue on the ideas, folks, but enough with the personal smackdowns on each other. I’m tired, I’ve been repeatedly barfed on this weekend, and my level of patience is awfully thin.
Try being a little mroe kind to each other, because wrath would be an awfully easy thing for me to turn on and, frankly, I need to save the energy for a small peanut who’d rather have hugs just now.
You want to take out your frustration on someone? Work on a new idea for a Roots project — try channeling it into some proactive Letter to the Editor work. Anything but smacking each other around. I mean it.
D. Mason must have no wife/husband, no children to educate, must have no economic stringencies that force him/her to stay in intolerable circumstances. How nice. What a nice vantage from which to judge.
Greg @ 61 and margaret @ 45 –
You have both touched on the other dimension of the moral horror we are in. It’as not just that this war was based on lies and incompetently pursued, it’s that war itself is in almost every case unjustifiable. As a culture, we glorify war and conveniently overlook the the plain fact that most of its victims are innocent, that people suffer horribly, both physically and mentally, both combatants and civilians, and the outcome is very rarely worth that cost.
Americans treat war as a video game or a movie and are totally unprepared for the reality when they are put in the middle of one. In this way we are like many Europeans before WWI who thought that a bracing little war would take care of all kinds of nagging political and economic problems.
Vietnam should have done for us what WWI did for them, but it did not. Instead we had a bunch of little preemptive wars that were cakewalks (Grenada, Pananma, even Desert Storm to a certain extent — recall that our ambassador signaled to Saddam that we wouldn’t relatiate if he invaded Kuwait) that prepared the way for this one. It was sold as being the same sort of war — an easy little excursion to topple a dictator we didn’t like. All the thrill of victory, all the rush of triumphalism, with little of the nasty downside of actual war.
This, I think, was the real reason Bush was able to gin up such widespread enthusiasm for the Iraq invasion. We weren’t really terrified of WMDs, we were just up for another jolly war. Until Americans can get past the idea of war as an excellent adventure, this kind of outrage will be doable by any sociopathic president with a will to do it.
Christy you can ban me if you want, but I won’t blow sunshine up someones ass. That guy said in plain terms that he was betraying his own values for a pension. I’m in a pretty shitty financial position because of George Bush’s policies too. I work for a company whos business dried up alot when gas prices went throught the roof. Companies started cutting back and our contracts dried up. I could make, literally 10 times as much if I went to work for any one of the dozens of defense contractors in my area(who are practically begging for qualified employees) but I won’t. It’s not because I don’t need the money, my stack of bills is getting pretty high. No, I let my finances go further into ruin because I won’t sell my values for thirty pieces of silver. I don’t believe in this war and I won’t work in support of it, even if I need the money.
After reading the NYTimes accounts of the Iraqi children who miraculously escaped death in the Marine massacre, and then the account of American children grieving for their dead soldier fathers, and, after reading James Carroll’s editorial in the Boston Globe
http://www.boston.com/news/glo…..t_the_war/
I don’t think there needs to be any further evidence that war is a useless means to resolve political conflict.
We need creative solutions: rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraqi infrastructure, helping the Palestinians and the Israelis toward mutual understanding, respecting the sovereign rights of other nations, even when we don’t agree with their style of governance. Every other solution is reflected in the Bob Dylan lyrics posted above. And those solutions are immoral.
D. Mason @ 75
I suppose you will refuse to pay your taxes and suffer the consequences?
D. Mason at 75 — who said anything about banning? All I’m saying is that I’m sick of the internal finger pointing this weekend. Everyone is disgusted by the Bush adminstration policies at the moment. We’re all crabby about it, everyone’s patience is running thin. How about we start taking the frustration out on them — instead of each other.
I’m just too exhausted today to deal with sniping amongst the commenters when we ought to be concentrating on doing something about the asshats who are running this country into the ground.
I don’t have to refuse to pay them, I make little enough money that after my work expenses, I don’t owe any taxes. And yes, I choose a very lean lifestyle BECAUSE I don’t want to support this war.
Christy, hope that Fiona feels better and that all of you get some rest.
margaret– James Carroll will be on cspan2 @ 4 today:
>>>>>>>>>>>
Carroll, James Columnist, [Boston Globe], Editorial Page
Scialabba, George Affiliate, Harvard University, Weatherhead Center for International Affairs
James Carroll talked about his book House of War: The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power, published by Houghton Mifflin. In his book Mr. Carroll chronicled the growth of U.S. military power from World War II to the present. He proposed that the Pentagon was the most influential institution in American history and operates under little or no authority. After Mr. Carroll’s presentation, writer George Scialabba responded to the author’s remarks. This event was hosted by the Weatherhead Center for International Affairs at Harvard University, where Mr. Scialabba was an affiliate. Following the presentation they responded to questions from the audience.
>>>>>>
saw part of it a while ago, it’s worthwhile imho.
Christy,
You are so right to abhor the nastiness of posters who miss the message: honor the fallen (in spirit, for instance, the poster, Ternminus Est) as well as in body, but do not honor war, or meaness of spirit in argument. It is that meaness which has produced the most ineffectual governance for the common good, the most corrupt Congress and Administration in our history, and a series of wars and international conflicts which have not brought anything good to the rest of the world’s peoples.
Your child is precious to you, as all our children. The future of our country is their future, and we must begin to get very serious about how to effect the change which will make their lives creative, rather than destructive, ones.
The height of wisdom in all these matters: We should not be warmongers; We should not have been there in their country killing their children; We should not be there now.
A curiosity? The Bush Administration is being hit daily with something that if analyzed deeply, could just be a better PR campaign manager than theirs. Coincidence indeed? The news stories about US troops slaughter (execution style) of a family, photos of which are coming to the front on Memorial Day weekend is rather timely.
The “Swift-Boaters” can not compete with this higher PR power that keeps this PNAC administration’s feet literally to the fire. They have to keep their tender little tootsies stamping out one news story, or scandal, one after another. Of course, they have their own and armies of deviousness, for uses such as PR and re-writing legislation by the executive branch, etc. It should be noted that they have already FAILED ABROAD. The word is they are broke! They can only turn inward and devour themselves, and probably us along with them. The end result will be that their battles will be lost against the true divine HIGHER POWER!
D. Mason, none of us can count either your money or Terminus Est’s (not to mention what personal turmoil either of you faces). But boy howdy, ‘at ‘ere sanctimony sure is a turn-off. Come on down from there so your day can improve, hey?
Angie #80
Thank you for the information about James Carroll on C-span. I have been impressed with everything he has written, beginning with an article on the misunderstanding of Islam in this country
Misunderstanding Muslims – The Boston Globe.html
sorry, I have lost the original link, but it was sometime in the past year. It should be required reading for all our soldiers before they go into Muslim countries, and for the general public. It might make us realize how wrong we are about a culture we know so little about.
I too can no longer hold my head up in pride for my once great Country’s flag of FREEDOM.
As a child, I grew up in the Military surrounded by heros, like my Green Beret Father who put his life on the line for 20 years for that same FREEDOM.
After his 2nd tour of Nam in ‘66, he told with great digust that “We have war in this Country for profit”. I didn’t believe him then, sadly, I do now.
It is up to us, the people, to change this horror we have become.
————
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.
- Friedrich Nietzche
OT, but worthwhile — for any FDlers who are signed up at dKos, please stop by and recommend this diary by Bill Winter. He is a veteran, and is running for Congress against Tom Tancredo. The 6th-CD is in the South Denver Metro suburbs, and has one of the highest GOP registration advantages in the state. If Bill Winter can win, it will turn Colorado from Purple to Blue.
A New Declaration of Independence-Bill Winter, CO-06
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/28/183332/101
cross posted at MyDD
http://mydd.com/story/2006/5/28/183412/084
Thanks again –
I respect the fact that you are having a rough weekend, and a rough day in particular. Hopefully you can respect the fact that it makes me a little dissapointyed to see “because I need the money” fly as an exscuse to support this war. Seeing the praise being heaped on that guy makes me a little nauseous.
People betraying what they believe in is what allows shit like Iraq to happen in the first place. Fuckers like George Bush could never rise to power if people stood up for what they know is right, yet people who shrink away from making principled stands get praised in a place like this. It’s enough to make me want to pull out what’s left of my hair.
American involvement in foreign wars in my life time seems always to be closely tied to the incumbent president’s political needs. “Oh, I want to be re-elected so let’s have a war and say that we can’t change horses midstream.” “I have this personal scandal, but a war will not only divert attention from it but also show how morally strong I am.” “The domestic situation stinks so we better look as if we’re doing something right internationally.” They’re all wag-the-dog wars.
I read the post by Bill Winter at DailyKos, and this is the kind of rhetoric which needs to be heard in Washington and in the MSM: rhetoric which is heartfelt and genuine. I know nothing else about Mr. Winter, but his sincerity and authenticity is exactly what we are missing in many of the Democratic establishment politicians now holding office in Washington, not to mention (does it need mentioning?) the Republicans.
And, by the way, Mr. D.Mason, you need to go outside and walk in the fresh air and calm down.
Everyone has to work out his own way of dealing with moral crisis. Your solution may not fit every situation.
I hide out in these blogs so I don’t have to watch the desecration at Arlington Cemetery by the felonious administration’s show on tv. It is quiet here at my house, but I’m keeping my mind active, and trying to help our world.
My husband, is buried at Arlington, and my long-time special friend of 20 years, is buried there as well. The latter had a cortege with 7 black horses pulling it. One of the horses was riderless.
Neither of them would have approved of the current administration’s behavior.
If anyone has noticed my posts from time to time, I have had an illness which prevents me from being as quick and accurate as most of you are. This sometimes interjects my posts in a conversation not connected sometime later in the section. I apologize for that.
Bear with me, I will get over it!
I am completely calm though. Just because I am speaking my feelings doesn’t mean I am irate. Maybe that’s why my issues are so unsettling in a hysterical debate. In a calm rational world noone could sit idly by while their countrymen commited war crimes in a distant land, that’s only possibly in a climate of absolute hysterics.
Coreesa, thank you for posting and special hugs to you today.
;(
You do not have to apologize.
For Coressa:
n concluding his second presidential inaugural speech in 1865, Abraham Lincoln spoke of the need “to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan.”
Your sacrifices are not forgotten, nor those of your beloved.
And for Mr.D.Mason:
You are not reasoning well, today…”hysterics” is not what this blog is about. FDL is about constructive criticism and hard work to effect change for the better so that war is not an option for any future President (God willing, we get a chance to elect another one).
Sorry, in my post#93 above, I left out that I grabbed this quote from the Christian Science Monitor article about Americans supporting the troops, but not the war.
Margaret –
Thanks for your kind words about Bill Winter — I’m working on a plan to get Russ Feingold’s media consultant to create an ad campaign. Bill Winter likes the idea, and we will start making contacts this week.
My comments here on Guerrilla Media outline some of the details –
http://www.soapblox.net/colora…..aryId=1556
Thanks Again!!!
Margaret I was not accusing FDL of being hysterical, though it does seem to happen on ocassion. My point was that the whole topic of this war is completely hysterical. From top to bottom, from beginning to end. It is hysterical because that’s the only way it could exist. It started with a flurry of radical hyperbole coming from the President. In situations like that emotions don’t shrink, they grow. And grow they have! America is practically in a frenzy, the anger is palpable. Common-sense ideas don’t have a place in a debate like that.
Thanks Christy, for the most excellent post. This Memorial Day is the most somber one personally for me that I can really remember. I’d posit all your readers this – will we as a citizenry be willing to accept another year of this insanity come Memorial Day, 2007? I think not – my instincts are telling me that my fellow citizens are going to indeed rise up in overwhelming protest against continuing to sacrifice more blood and treasure into this quagmire.
For Susan at 26 – Please take a salute to your father from myself. It’s been an honor to have served in the footsteps of veterans like your father – they truly were the greatest generation.
Dmason, if I can make it through 5 more years of service without being asked/ordered to do something dishonorable or illegal (like take part in an unprovoked attack on Iran, be ordered to Iraq, or operate in the US against US citizens) then I will stick around and serve honorably, seeking to prevent any around me from acting dishonorably. I will not take part in any immoral or illegal activity to get a “pension” (which I wouldn’t see any of for another 20 years, by the way).
DMason: “In situations like that emotions don’t shrink, they grow. And grow they have! America is practically in a frenzy, the anger is palpable. Common-sense ideas don’t have a place in a debate like that.”
Vewwy intewesting. You have just succumbed to the Neocon/Big Brother mantle of doublespeak. This discussion was none of the above…until you arrived.
You have chosen to respond in anger towards someone who had the courage to serve his nation, and now, on Memorial Day to tell how conflicted he is with that service. His was a heartfelt admittance of his emotional plight at this time, one I could understand from the bottom of my heart. Yours, not so much.
Terminus Est, I respect the turmoil and anguish that you are working through. I honor your service to our country. I hope it all works out for you. My one selfish wish is that you could somehow use your 5 years to propagate your values to the young people who find themselves contracted to serve our morally bankrupt “leaders.” Good luck!
Terminus you and I disagree about what dishonorable is. You support the war with your silence. You’re in a position to make a real statement, if enough officers walked away the military would be UNABLE to pursue wars of pleasure.
I don’t have any ill feelings towards you, I just don’t respect your position. It is kind of disturbing that you seem to be fishing for praise though.
May I ask why you joined the military? I’m sure you had reasons, probably good ones. Now I will ask you what part of your current service lives up to those ideals?
OK, don’t feed it any more.
You have confused anger with disapproval and maybe a little anguish.
i actually find d. mason’s comments the most interesting of the thread, i think because they strike to the very heart of the issue, the reason we celebrate memorial day: sacrifice.
sacrifice, or the paucity of it, is perhaps the heart of the failure of the iraq adventure. it is a failed cakewalk, a failed war-on-the-cheap. it was supposed to have been not a war but a police action and it was supposed to have been finished in may 2003 — that’s all that had been planned for. it is an occupation attempted with the minimum resources, manned by backdoor conscripts and mercenaries. it is deficit-funded during a time of tax cuts, asking no real demand from the citizenry but their applause, and lacking that, their silence.
so the question we face is what are we willing to sacrifice in support of the war? what are we willing to sacrifice to not support the war? personally, i have never supported the war, am not in the military, nor have family in the military. but i can’t think of anything that i’ve had to sacrifice not to support it except the time i’ve put in writing against it.
on another blog (i can’t remember which so it may even have been this one), someone asked that if this war is so vitally important, why no draft, no full mobilization of our resources? perhaps the unspoken answer is now that this “slam-dunk” investment has become a money pit, the architects want to hold onto what diminishing profit remains — and i’m referring here more to those mega-bases than exxon and haliburton profits — at least until they can “ponzi” the war off onto the next administration.
the time is drawing near, if it is not in fact already upon us, when people are going to have to decide what they’re willing to sacrifice in order to stop this war and remove the officials running it. i don’t yet have an answer myself.
Terminus Est – if you are still around or hit this later, don’t let the frustration overtake you. There are plenty of good things that our military does, every day. It’s a hard thing to have a commitment to an organization and idea that could at anytime request of your your best, or that you do something that goes beyond any morally acceptable conduct.
You already know what you will do if faced with the later, but don’t let it swallow up the fact that you may very well have an opportunity to instead bring back some of the honor that you saw ebb away when you listened ot the pathetic “enemy combatant” JAG excusophile.
Keep in mind that some of the JAG corps have been among the best in fighting this immoral infiltration into our military. Read a little about the JAG defense counsel that have been appointed for the few GITMO trials going forward. There are things to be proud about as well as things to be ashamed of – the military is not so different from the government in general, on a large scale, or family, on a small scale.
D. Mason – I’ll jump into this. I’m a retired Marine – retired in 2000, and I personally am thankful that I retired in time to not have to swear any oath of allegiance to this chicken-shit bastard of a CinC. Terminus Est took that same oath and is currently bound under it to “obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over him.” Obedience to orders is the bedrock of serving in the military. I think there’s a lot of conflicted American service members out there now, but they are continuing to obey orders. These bastards at the top (who with the exception of Rumsfeld, either never served, or got Daddy to get them out of going to Vietnam and then walked away from their minimal service obligation), most certainly realize what a god-send that they have in controlling the most efficient military organization in modern times, and one that won’t question their criminal judgments.
We may be on the cusp of a huge revolt, if these criminal bastards take this country into another war against Iran this fall. I personally think that they are seriously considering that very action. If they do, I think we will actually see serving officers speak out publicly and resign in mass. Rumsfeld has just about broken the U.S. Army, and he’s working to do the same to the Marine Corps. Cheney is truly an evil bastard who, to state it again, never had the personal courage to serve when he most definitely had the opportunity, but is more than willing to recklessly sacrifice Americans for his evil goals. Bush is a tool that suits Rumsfeld and Cheney’s purposes.
I think your basic point is correct – all of us as citizens must cry out and say: Enough – no more to this evil that our country is now mired in. Just understand however, that Terminus is bound by a strict set of legal standards (the UCMJ) that could easily be enacted and get him court-martialed for speaking out like I am now. I can do it now because I’m retired. You can speak out now because you and I still have the First Amendment protecting us.
Well that will be a nice gesture but by then it will be too late. Poeple need to walk away before we’ve invaded another country.
War is not something you can just undo. However, if they see their officer pool cut by even ten percent they will take notice. That would be more jarring than a dem sweep in november, by a long shot.
Terminus Est and OkiDave–
thank you.
D. Mason,
I’m a member of Bugles Across America. We play “Taps” and other calls at ceremonies honoring Veterans and the military across the country. This weekend I’ve played at seven ceremonies. Yesterday, I played “Taps” at two far-right evangelical Christian churches., as part of their Memorial Day Sunday services.
At the scores of ceremonies in which I participate, I meet and talk to about a hundred service men and women per year. Although most are early in their service – hence getting assigned funeral detail – some are well along in their career.
I’m hearing more reluctance and doubt about the state of the armed forces from service folks this spring than in 2005 and 2004. Additionally, I’ve met almost a dozen NCOs and officers who expressed the same sentiments as did Terminus Est in his initial comment above.
As a disabled Veteran who felt loathing toward Lyndon Johnson for what he was doing to the soul of our amed forces when I got out, I’ve never taken out my disgust on ANY Vet or serving personnel between then – the summer of 1967 – and now.
Your comments about Terminus Est strike me as disingenuous. I have nothing but sympathy for those who continue to serve our country while conflicted, especially those who really, really want out, but can’t see throwing eighteen or nineteen years of sacrifice down the drain.
d. mason -
please, i beg you – respect our host’s requests. this is her “home”, not ours, and we are here at her invitation. we can leave at any time, but she may feel a responsibility to stay and be the gracious host. if she says she can’t deal with your judgmental posts today, then believe her and wait a day. there is no reason to be cruel to our host.
please, whatever you post today, let it be only kindness to all posters and hosts. tomorrow will be soon enough.
I’ve never taken my disghust out on them, but I won’t shovel praise on them either. The soldiers in Iraq are not fighting for freedom or liberty or America or me or you. They are fighting for money, and if they realise it they have an obligation, in my eyes, to stop. If they don’t stop fighting to enrich our politicians then they are part of the problem. We can disagree about that, but please don’t pretend like I’ve been spitting on soldiers, I just don’t appreciate their part in destroying America.
selise, I honestly don’t understand what is expected of me. This is a political blog and I don’t really consider disagreement to be unkind. If disagreement is unwelcome here then someone should make a note of that.
I agree with alot of what is said here, but if I happen to not agree and say something about it I am labeled a troll and told to fall in line. Please tell me what is kind about that.
Ed*ard Teller,
A salute to you, Sir, for your service and sacrifice. It’s interesting to hear your observations on the state of mind of young service members. My take is that the U.S. armed forces are not going to be able to support these criminal s masquerading as their leadership for another two years without some vital pieces of the machine coming off.
D. Mason,
I’d offer one more observation for what its worth – the inner bonds of loyalty that service members develop to each other and their unit is a powerful force. Serving officers and SNCOs who currently have inner misgivings about the wisdom or even sanity of what their civilian leadership are currently inflicting on their units, commands and service organizations continue to serve as best they can because of those inner bonds of loyalty. In a perverse way, I am sure that is what basically happened in Haditha in Nov, ‘04, when that squad from Kilo Co, 3/1 completely lost their moral groundings as Americans and Marines and killed non-combatant civilians. This crime was covered up for months because of this loyalty to each other that any service member develops, especially in an intense combat situation like these young grunts are repeatedly experiencing in Iraq now. It’s not right, but I am sure that is a core factor in what happened.
A final comment for now, to try and make my point. Perhaps you recall a young Army captain named Fishback, who spoke out publicly against the continued and unlawful abuse of prisoners (detainees) that he witnessed. Rumsfeld was indirectly quoted as telling his uniformed service chiefs to silence him now – destroy him if you have to, or words to that effect. Capt Fishback is a sterling example of American courage, and I hope that he has not been destroyed by these immoral bastards who are calling the shots. But I hope you can glimpse the unimaginable jaws of hell that this brave young captain most certainly looked into when he went public with his conscience while still wearing the uniform.
For the general audience – does anyone have a thread or update on this brave captain? I certainly hope that the evil doers have not harmed him.
I’ve been lurking here reading all the posts and feel like I just have to jump in and say my piece.
For starters, I’m an OLD female, OK? I’ve been one of those who has been waiting at home for loved ones come home from too many wars. I was a military wife for 30 years. There are those in the military who a very good people and there are those who should never be given power of any kind, let alone a gun. Just like in any occupation.
I’ve had to deal with the rage, the pain, the guilt, the fear and anguish of those who come home. How many of you have had to be careful just how you wake someone up so they don’t break your neck out of reactions left over from being in combat? How many of you have had to comfort someone who has a terror reaction to a thunderstorm because in sounds like artillary?
I have all the love in the world for my fellow humans, even those misguided enough to believe in war. I’ve been through too many wars and the aftermath to watch any more with any kind of sanguinity.
D. Mason, I know where you’re coming from. I, too, have paid a heavy price for my convictions and can sympathize but I can also see the other side of the story. There are those who think they can still make a difference from the ‘inside’. I don’t think that can happen now.
Don’t get me wrong. I can’t honestly say I’m a ‘peacenik’ kind of person because I will fight to the death for me and mine IF the fight is brought to me, in my space.
I also think that the war should be portrayed as it truly is – UGLY. Sanitized war news doesn’t impact those here sitting in their living rooms with nothing to lose. Hiding the sight of the dead coming home is wrong. Not showing EXACTLY what happens when explosives hit the human body gives an out for those who are not involved.
I am not political nor am I ‘religious’. I am a human being who doesn’t believe in destroying other human beings for power and profit. So D.Mason, I didn’t work for those who had government contracts either and I’m paying for it now. I can honestly say I feel your pain. I can understand where everyone else is coming from as well. This is a holistic problem, not a political or religious one. It’s a problem for humanity and I, for one, don’t know how to solve it.
Thank you for letting me share.
OkiDave at 112 — I’ve been trying to find an update on Captain Fishback myself. Andrew Sullivan had been in fairly regular correspondance with Fishback’s family, but I haven’t seen any update on him there lately either. If anyone knows of an update somewhere, I’d be most grateful for a link as well.
I know the thread has moved on, but I couldn’t pass up the chance to share the James Carroll Editorial mentioned in #84, as it is full of commentary concerning our lack of understanding of our “enemy.” If it is too long to post, since I have lost the link (From Feb!), I’ll understand, but I hope you can read it. It’s worth it:
THE CARTOON CONTROVERSY | JAMES CARROLL
Misunderstanding Muslims
By James Carroll | February 13, 2006
WHEN THE KORAN was said to have been denigrated by American guards at Guantanamo last year, Muslims reacted with rage, but most observers in the West misunderstood why.
It was easy for Christians and Jews — the other ”people of the Book” — to think that such an insult to the Koran was like an insult to the Bible. That would be sacrilege enough, but it was worse than that.
Drawing analogies between religions can mislead, but the Koran stands in Islamic belief more as Jesus does in Christian faith than as the Bible. As this Christian understands it, the Koran embodies the incarnational principle, with the chanting of the holy words that came from God to Mohammed as the way God’s presence is experienced again.
Non-Muslims tend to think that the Prophet is to Islam something like what Jesus is to Christianity (which is why non-Muslims have mistakenly called the religion ”Mohammedanism”), but it is the Koran that holds such a central place. Hence, Islamic visual celebration is calligraphy, not images. Therefore when the Koran is disrespected, the insult Muslims feel is nothing less than insult to God.
Insult, of course, is the issue that has been put so explosively before the world recently. The Danish cartoons were a flame applied to a primed fuse, and the extraordinary reactions to the images from across the whole House of Islam point beyond the immediate provocation to a far broader sense of insult that Muslims have been made to feel.
One need not excuse the indiscriminate violence of mobs in the streets, nor dismiss the good question of why such rage is not directed against the blasphemy of suicide-murders carried out in the name of Allah to take a lesson from what has happened. The Islamic world seems astoundingly united in sending a stern message to ”the West,” and instead of focusing again on ”what went wrong” with Islam Europeans and Americans would do well to take that message in.
Thinking of deep history, for example, we might recall that the very structures of politics, culture, and thought that define western civilization were expressly erected in opposition to Islam more than 1,000 years ago.
What we call ”the West” was born in the clash of civilizations that climaxed in the Crusades, with Muslims assigned the role of the external ”negative other” against which Christendom defined itself positively (The internal ”negative other” were the Jews). Among Europeans, and then Americans, that intellectual polarity was sublimated over the centuries, but its insult remained current among Muslims, and was powerfully resuscitated by the assault of colonialism.
The economics of oil, including the creation of an oppressive local class of Western-sponsored oligarchs, locked the grievous insult in place. As if to be sure it was more sharply felt than ever, Europe imported ”guest workers” from the Islamic world, openly consigning them to an underclass that is as religiously defined as it is permanent.
And then the United States launched its wars. One of the major disconnects in the present conflict is the way in which European and American analysis obsesses with the apparently anarchic outbursts of violence in the ”Arab street” without taking in how brutally violent the post-9/11 ”coalition” assault has been, not only physically but psychologically.
Mobs throw stones through the windows of European consulate offices, and the legion of CNN watchers recoils with horror. Meanwhile, unmanned drones fly across stretches of desert to drop loads of fire on the heads of subsistence farmers in their villages; children die, but CNN is not there.
Billions of dollars are being poured each month into the project of imposing an American solution on an Arab problem, and increasingly the solution looks, from the other side, like annihilation. Muslims, that is, understand the new reality far better than non-Muslims do — the state of open cultural warfare that ”the West” imagines is a narrowly targeted war against ”terrorism.” Muslims, as Muslims, experience themselves as on the receiving end of a savage — but, alas, not unprecedented — assault.
Are they wrong? In the argument over ”Enlightenment” values, sparked by the cartoons, some champions of free expression have fallen into the deadly old mistake that led, in the 20th century, to a grotesque betrayal of those very values — the over-under ranking of human beings, with the lives of some being counted as cheap.
Why are we killing them? As with multiple problems today, this one comes back to the misbegotten American war. It threatens to ignite the century, and must be stopped.
Here’s my take on Memorial Day, 2006 (overly harsh and judgemental? Maybe….):
http://www.geocities.com/ifthe…..l_Day.html
Sigh. I don’t care if you praise me or applaud me or call me names or flip me the bird Dmason. I do not have to explain myself to you either. I didn’t have to join the military back when I did. I didn’t come from a military family though my father served briefly between WWII and Korea and HIS father was damaged by a gas attack in WWI. I joined because it was who I was, and in many respects, who I am. The duty and honor mythology is my draw, it is just that reality never matches with the myth and this has never been more true than these last 5 years. I am simply expressing my thoughts at this point in time.
I happen to know one other person that has similar feelings about the last 5 years as I do. I don’t expect him to quit either. He’s good people and I respect him a great deal…and as a matter of fact, it surprised me when I learned his thoughts as he struck me as someone who would think otherwise. I have no doubt there are many others but the military being what it is – the rules of the road for those wearing a uniform being what they are – they are not obvious (one must be careful about badmouthing the Commander in Chief, for instance).
I am not serving to match your perceptions or desires. As I have not been involved in Iraq at all this time, directly or indirectly (my just being in uniform doesn’t in any way, shape, or form further the Iraq occupation or aid in any plans to attack Iran) I am willing to stay in and hope that there will be a different government here after November. If things get insane before then, I trust myself to do the right thing, retirement or not. You will just have to deal with that but that’s your problem, not mine.
Terminus Est–thank you for your honesty and for your service to the nation.
Whatever our views about this war, we deeply respect your willingness to share your perspective about this complex issue.
Life is messy business. We do well to encourage each other while trying to construct a better sense of who we are as a nation.
FYI, The General has an array of heartbreaking photos of the funerals of our fallen soldiers and their grieving loved ones. It is a stark reminder of what Memorial Day is really about.
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/