Glenn Greenwald's background as a First Amendment attorney has enabled him to do more than almost anyone to follow the subversive efforts of the Bush Administration to twist and contort the law as it spies on the nation's citizens. As he asserts within the title of his new book -- How Would a Patriot Act? Defending American Values From a President Run Amok -- his critique comes from the perspective of a patriot, not a partisan. Even as he exposes the deep criminality of the intent and the mafia-like discipline of partisan enablers like Alberto Gonzales and Pat Roberts, he does not shy away from criticizing Democrats like Jane Harmon who, in her position on the House Intelligence Committee, has attempted to legalize the President's wanton disregard for the rule of law rather than call him to account. It may be a GOP-led effort, but they did not pull it off without an awful lot of help.
In reviewing the book, Lex Alexander at the Greensboro News-Record has this to say:
Greenwald has aimed his book at all Americans, not just liberals or conservatives, for he believes the overarching constitutional issues raised by many of the president’s actions are not partisan but, rather, go to the heart of what it means to be an American. In light of the big picture this book so clearly describes and so strongly documents, it stands out among the many recent books attacking the Bush presidency and deserves the widest possible audience.
Glenn begins his tale as a personal journey, told from the perspective of a not-overtly-political individual who felt there were enough checks and balances in the system to keep the government from doing much harm. I think it was the way many felt during the Clinton years; things may not be going swimmingly but the economy was healthy and the adults were in charge. We often felt we had the luxury of worrying about other things.
That luxury no longer exists. George Bush now regularly asserts his right to ignore any law he choses, and as Christy mentioned this morning, Dick Cheney and David Addington have busied themselves recently with going through legislation to find other laws to ignore via signing statements. We have an administration that has set up a limitless network to spy on terrorists, who openly count anyone that doesn't agree with them as "terrorists" and "traitors." Who have thrown out the writ of Habeus Corpus and hold people indefinitely without charging them, who proudly assert their right to torture, all in their pursuit of a "war on terror." Glenn's book rightly asks -- given the situation in which we all find ourselves at the moment, what would a patriot do?
One of the problems with following a complex situation like this over time is that details get dropped from memory, or never find their way into appropriate context. Glenn does an incredible job of corralling them all together into a tight, burning narrative that makes you want to go knock on your neighbor's door, sit down over coffee and explain the whole thing to them.
Glenn begins in the 50's when Harry Truman created the NSA, but the story starts to pick up speed in the 60s when the government began listening in on the telephone conversations of people like Martin Luther King, Jr., Jimmy Hoffa and Jerry Rubin -- and according to Time Magazine, US Senators in both parties felt their phone conversations were subject to bugging. After Richard Nixon turned wiretapping into an art form, it lead to the formation of the Church Committee which issued its report in 1976.
Says Glenn:
Even back in 1975, when the NSA's surveillance capabilities were primitive compared to today, Sen. Church was stunned by what he learned regarding the breadth and scope of the NSA's powers. As The New York Times recently recounted: "'That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people,' [Church] said in 1975, 'and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide.' He added that if a dictator ever took over, the NSA 'could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back.'" (p. 16 -- my emphasis)
But as Glenn points out, at the time these activities were not strictly illegal. Public concern on this front, generated by both liberals and conservatives, lead to the passage of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, signed into law by Jimy Carter, which provided judicial oversight to wiretapping activities in order to limit abuses (and as Glenn notes, such abuses were not the domain of either party -- Nixon merely picked up where Johnson left off).
It's no surprise that the Bush Administration has taken a wrecking ball to the FISA courts. As Glenn notes:
Prior to the December, 2005 disclosure that President Bush violated the law, nobody had ever suggested that the FISA framework impeded necessary eavesdropping. If anything, the FISA court has long been criticized by liberals, conservatives, libertarians and everyone in between for being too permissive, for allowing the government whatever eavesdropping powers it requested. Indeed, its reputation for granting every eavesdropping request made by the government is so widespread that it has long been ridiculed as the "Rubber-Stamp court."
Relevant statistics more than support those criticisms. According to statistics compiled by the Federation of American Scientists, from 19178 until 2001 -- the year President Bush ordered eavesdropping outside of the law -- the government submitted a total of 13,102 requests to the FISA court to eavesdrop on Americans. The FISA court approved every single request and only modified the requested warrant on a grand total of two occasions.
Nevertheless, the FISA court still performed an extremely important function -- it ensured that Presidents were not eavesdropping in secret on Americans, but instead, always with the knowledge of at least one federal judge on the FISA court. And when a President knows that any eavesdropping he orders will be known to a FISA judge, the opportunity for abuse is, for obvious reasons, greatl diminished, if not entirely eliminated. That is how and why the severe eavesdropping abuses of the 1960s and 1970s essentially disappeared once FISA was enacted. Presidents were still able to engage in legitimate eavesdropping as aggressively and potently as ever before, but their potential to abuse this power was greatly diminished by oversight.
FISA worked exceptionally well under multiple administrations of each party. It worked all the way until October 2001, when President Bush quietly decided to order the NSA to eavesdrop on Americans in violation of FISA. (p. 25-26, my emphasis)
Those four paragraphs say more to me about the way the Bush Administration operates than almost anything I've read. Generations of wisdom and careful legislation, enacted on a bipartisan level to assure appropriate checks in the system and observed by Presidents of both parties, swept away by a ruthless tyrant with respect for nothing and whose arrogance is only outstripped by his insatiable appetite for absolute power.
One of the things that makes this book so remarkable is its timeliness; it was written in a mere 6 weeks and quickly published in order to be available for people trying to wrestle with the complexities of this imminent crisis. Give it to your friends, your family, your co-workers, buy a copy for your local library, write your local newspaper and demand it be reviewed (despite its remarkable climb to #1 on Amazon on the first day of its pre-sales, relatively few major media outlets have reviewed it -- you can be sure that no such fate will befall Ann Coulter's next magnum opus.)
It's an extremely important book sure to awaken the true patriotic impulses of every American still capable of feeling them, and Lex Alexander is right in saying that it deserves "the widest possible audience." It most certainly does.
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Per usual, please limit your comments on this thread to the book discussion. Anyone wanting to discuss other topics, feel free to do so on the previous thread which can be found here.
Among other things, a patriot would weep at what is being done in the name of preserving our freedoms from outside attack.
It’s becoming more and more apparent to anyone paying attention that we have a gaggle of fascists in the White House.
This is not a metaphore- or a simile. I don’t mean that we have people who ACT a little like fascists, or who Smell a little like fascists. No- I mean we have fascists- real live fascists- running this country- and it’s only when you realize that that you can make any sense at all out of what’s going on.
Fitz, Feingold & Greenwald…three true American patriots. We can only hope that one day the history books will recount that they were victorious against the forces of tyranny.
rwcole 3 — one of the startling things about the book is seeing the utter lawlessness of the aministration all laid out like that in one very quick read. It presents a rather irrefutable case (as Glenn always does) which goes to the heart of what you’re talking about — there is nothing Democratic about what is happening.
Greenwald’s book is important for many reasons, not the least of which is how accessible it is. It is short, inexpensive, concise, well written, direct to the point, put issues into their historical context, and avoids language that is esoteric. The average person can read and digest in just a few hours.
But more than anything else, Greenwald has hit the nail on the head when he points to basically uncontested consolidation of power in the executive branch — and the president’s belief that he is above the law.
I’ve just gone back and purchased 10 copies and will be giving them to people I think will read it.
I was kind of hoping Glenn would drop by for this discussion.
Jane- I firmly believe that american democracy is in a fight for it’s life in this country. There is nothing on the agenda that is more important- not the war- not traditional politics- nothing. We have no idea how far these fascists are willing to go to retain control of the finanicial and military resources of the United States- but from what we know already- they don’t seem to have much restraint.
Jane — it this doesn’t fit, just delete. It’s long, but I think goes to the questions Glen raises.
We still do not know what, if anything, can bring this Administration down, short of the end of its term in January 2009. Like others, I once thought that Bush would, sooner or later, go the way of Nixon, and all the parallels to how that happened seemed to be falling into place. Surely the country could see the comparison, see the dangers to our governing institutions, and even see the danger to our national and domestic security from having an Administration conduct the country’s affairs in so shameless, unlawful and incompetent a manner. But even the cynics among us never fathomed the depth of the Congress’ complicity, and I at least naively assumed that even Bush’s crowd might possess some honor and would eventually see the need to step down for the good of the country. Alas, they have none.
What to do? There is a unifying theme that runs through Glen’s posts, as well as many of Jane’s and Christy’s posts, and has been eloquently emphasized by Pachacutec and other guests here. There is a shared diagnosis of the underlying problem:
Putting aside the lack of leadership and the complicity of both parties, all important, the country’s government is in a near death grip of a group of people whose philosophical approach to governance and international relations is fundamentally inimical to human values (and not healthy for the planet, either). There is a contempt of human life, particular the lives of the less favored (and almost darker skinned, and non-Anglo), who are persistently referred to as “them,” “aliens,” “foreigners,” “terrorists,” “insurgents,” and so on. Even when dealing with “Americans,” this group shows clear preferences for corporate intestests over common intestests, for the needs of capital over the safety and health of workers, for benefits and tax breaks for the richest over the needs of the middle class. And there is a willingness to drive wedges between those still tenuously in the middle class and those still aspiring to get there, and a willingness to manipulate religious prejudices to stay in power. There is a persistent disdain for any decent understanding of the common, public interest and an willingness to use the powers of government to pursue the public interest against the demands of the powerful. There is a cynical disregard for the foundations of democracy — free speech; an free, independent, and vigorous press; the right of every citizen to have his/her vote counted; and stong opposition to an open government whose deliberations and information are made transparent and accountable so that citizens can intelligently participate in their own self governance. And there is no respect for the Constitutional principles, about which Glen has been so eloquent, that hold the country together and keep it from sliding into tyranny.
Internationally, this group has a belief in the inherent right of the United States to impose its will on all other lands and peoples to secure its economic interests. To this end, there is no human in any foreign land whose life cannot be sacrifed in pursuit of those ends. There are no exceptions for “civilians,” whether men, women, the elderly, or children.
Words fail. It is simply an immoral, appalling philosophy, and it deserves to be opposed and derided by every human it seeks to victimize.
It seems to me that part of our job as patriots is to keep pointing out how evil this philosophy is, to point accusing fingers at its witting proponents and its unwitting shills and apologists, and through exposure, derision and shame, do all that we can to discredit the leaders of this administration, the neocon “thinkers” that defend them, and the corporate media flacks that unthinkingly spout their nonsense. We must make supporting this Administration and its policies morally and politically untenable, and then hold the media and all political leaders of both parties accountable for how they respond.
And that is exactly what I think Glen, Jane, Christy and many others in the progressive blogs have been doing. You are the patriots.
rwcole says:
May 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Should we differentiate between fascists and authoritarians? Since I haven’t read How Would a Patriot Act?, I don’t know whether Glenn Greenwald has differentiated in his book between fascists and authoritarians.
The best solution to a pile of manure is sunlight.
Thankfully, the government still has a certain number of employees who believe in the rule of law, several of whom enabled certain reporters to win Pulitzer prizes this year.
Abu G. and Gitmo torture became public because insiders had had it with the “nothing to see here . . . move along” attitude from those at the top.
The NSA eavesdropping became public because insiders had had it with the “we always get warrants” nonsense from on high.
The CIA secret prisons became known because someone got fed up with the hypocricy of the US speaking out on human rights failings elsewhere while doing the same when it suited our purposes.
The Cheneys, Addingtons, and others can only do their work in the shadows. (Energy Task Force, anyone?) The more light that is directed their way, the harder it is for them to get away with what they are doing.
What would a patriot do? Blog! Publish! Write! Shine that light, and get a couple hundred friends to add their flashlights to yours.
I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
alive as you or me.
Says I, “But Joe, you’re ten years dead.”
“I never died,” says he.
“The copper bosses, they killed you Joe,
They shot you dead,” says I.
“It takes more than guns to kill a man,”
Says Joe, “I didn’t die.”
Says Joe, “I didn’t die.” . . .
I saw a great exchange on Glenn’s site that explained it all:
——-
R: Colbert’s attack shows lack of respect for office of President which is blah blah treason
Q: So what about the people who attacked Clinton so personally and visciously?
R: Clinton was a disgrace, the comparison makes no sense.
——
Law supposes some logic, abstract thinking, and an idea of rules. Fascism is just bile and blood. The problem is not the fascists, who are always there, it is and has been the “well meaning people” who insist, against all evidence, that we can come to an accommodation with these people.
Glenn quotes Russ Feingold following the AUMF vote:
All I can say is…the checks have bounced, the balance is long overdue, and it’s well past the time that this loan is foreclosed.
scarecrow 7 — I think that’s absolutely on-topic. I was just thinking of Atrios’ post on Peter Bienert today, and the common thread amongst all those who have switched horses on the war always seems to be “yes but the Bush Haters….”
Now aside from the fact that they then go on to accuse those of us who have viewed everything the Bush Administration has done through an appropriately skeptical eye of engaging in a coarsening of the dialog that they themselves do when they invoke the term “Bush haters” to dismiss our (justified) criticisms in the first place, and then frequently go on to accuse us of somehow having been wrong to be right (a la John Dickerson), one has to wonder — what exactly do they think is the correct response to this lawlessness?
They’re usually so busy floundering in self-justification they stop a bit short of providing the answer. I myself am quite angry at this “slide into tyranny” that Glenn’s book so eloquently portrays. WTF am I supposed to think?
I have some sympathy for the Jane Harmon Democrats, just as I had some sympathy for the Gang of 14 Filibuster killers.
But the problem is, if we don’t fight now because the issues are too hot or too cold or too obscure or too obvious, when will we fight?
If Abraham Lincoln had fought the Civil War this way, the Confederate States of America would still have slavery.
I’ve asked my local library to get this on the list of “new books” for branches to order. I’d like to tie up my Senators and Congressman and read this to them.
Is it possible to turn this into an audio book and get it onto iTunes and Audible.com? We must get the word out.
Peterr 8 — The best solution to a pile of manure is sunlight.
I have to wonder what would have happened if this stuff had gone down 10 years go. The GOP machine was so successful at putting the Whitewater non-story out there for years and there was no pushback, nobody seemed conscious of the fact that it was quite plainly bunk. If there was no Glenn Greenwald, no blogosphere, where would this conversation be taking place? Risen, Lichtblau and others did a great job in bringing the story to light in the first place (albeit a year late, thanks Bill Keller). But the battle of the spin, the day-by-day debunking, the holding politicians in check has been done largely by Glenn and promulgated by those who link back to him.
I sincerely believe that Jane Harman would not be backpeddling, nor would her challenger Marcy Winograd be nipping at her heels, if her complicity in all of this hadn’t been dragged into the sunlight by people like Glenn. That’s just a function that the NYT, and certainly the WaPo, are not going to serve.
It would really be nice if TOR (The Onion Router) got some funding, so that we could better protect our digital papers and effects from warrantless seizure by the lawless administration:
Note that traffic analysis is the technology we’ve been told the NSA is using.
Here is a useful overview of who is using Tor and why. For example:
You can donate to Tor here. Contributions to Tor are tax deductible.
Note that any Beltway consultants who fail to advise their clients of this technology are (1) obviously lacking in due diligence and (2) are going to look awfully foolish when the blackmail stories start coming out…
Granted, this is a technical approach that can’t solve the larger political problem of restoring constitutional government to the United States; but in the meantime, we can at least protect ourselves and our privacy.
I’ve detailed some of my experiences with tor at Corrente.
How Would a Patriot Act?
The internet has put a crack in the cw. Glenn’s book serves to further widen it.
I say forward! and into the breech.
We cannot call ourselves Patriots if we do not do something now
It is up to us. No one else seems to care, but they will if they truly understand what is happening and what is at stake. Educating our neighbors is the most vitally important thing we can do for them. We are our brothers’ keeper.
I don’t know why my post was deleted. It was about the book. I don’t know why every post I make is “moderated” even though I’ve been occassionally posting for a few weeks. See http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....ent-101132
To whomever is deleting and moderating… note: I expect you to delete this too but want you to know I’m not happy about not being able to participate.
Heirofpatriots — Our spam filters are frequently throwing things into moderation for reasons we don’t even know, but to the best of my knowledge none of your comments have ever been deleted.
I agree. It is a tempting response to personalize our hatreds, so I guess we should expect that some may actually “hate Bush.” But one doesn’t have to hate this man to despair over what his Administation has done to our military, to Iraq, to our Constitutional checks and balances, to our political rhetoric. Nor it is hating Bush as a human being to argue strongly that dismantling or undermining Social Security would be a tragedy, that sanctioning torture is unconcionable, and that ducking responsibility for creating a climate in which torture seems the order of the day is unacceptable. You are right to ask: “what do you [press] expect me so say in the face of these horrible policies?”
The more subtle point is about what language we use to express our outrage. There are, as far as I’m concerned, no epithets too strong from what we have seen this Administration do. But which ones we use to try to wake up the country is a different question. What I find interesting is how all of us have changed our speech — even as our anger has increased — in recognition that we need to reach a wider audience. It is as though all whom we needed to convince were sitting in their church, and we had to speak from their pulpit.
I have been been reading Greenwald’s posts since almost the beginning of his blog, I think. His commitment to the Constitution and Bill of Rights has been the main appeal to me, and I wish I could figure out how to put those documents’ names in 36 point or larger here and ask our “lawmakers” to bear them in mind as they collect their salaries and uphold their oaths.
Yearly KOS may be a perfect opportunity to get the message out to some of our elected leaders that “we the people” do not want our constitution trashed.
Ask them if they intend to stand by their oath of office and defend the constitution or do they intend to remain silent and let Bush and co. shred it. Don’t let them waffle. A lot of damage can be done between now and election day.
I’m reminded of the “Profiles in Courage” postings a while back. Murtha and Mora stood up and called it as they saw it. The JFK library took note, and gave them an even bigger platform to stand on.
That’s what I love about FDL, both those who write the posts and those who comment on them. It has become a place for reasonably coherent and focused debate/discussion, and provides a platform for action when a consensus of some kind coalesces. Think about how FDL took part in holding Joementum’s feet to the pro-choice fire for his oh-so-holy “it’s only a short walk to the next hospital” nonsense.
Jane @ 11 - Institutionally, the NYT and WashPo are fast discovering that they aren’t the only game in town any more. Their work is being challenged, checked, and held under a microscope unlike anything they’ve seen before, from both the left and right. Even in-house, things are awkward. Both Dan Froomkin and John Harris take the work of reporters who cover the White House and string together what they see. Froomkin creates his WH Briefing webcolumn, and Harris strings together the Post political coverage. Five times a week, Dan Froomkin’s editorial handiwork appears, and five times a week he puts John Harris’s skills to shame.
scarecrow @16 -
You mean we’re becoming “more sophisticated” in our language?
Damn! I was just ready to toss out a “dead or alive” cliche.
scarecrow 21 — I think “hot” rhetoric has been one of our most effective tools, and that’s why it comes under fire from those who accuse us of being “Bush Haters” (as if that’s not hot rhetoric right there). Somehow we are supposed to be measured in our tones while they’re tossing eliminationist fantasies around like live hand grenades whenever the subject of brown people comes up. Yes we’ve changed our tone. When we speak like a bunch of wonks they accuse us of being wonks and nobody listens.
I’d be delighted if we had the luxury of sitting here and civilly debating the fine points of the interstate commerce clause, but our opinions on the topic really don’t have much impact right now. I haven’t called for any violence or physical ill to befall George Bush, but you wouldn’t know it from those who want to write of all our criticisms as “unhinged” and the purview of “Bush haters.”
It’s where we are right now.
Haralambos — I agree, Glen’s posts are keepers, and our MA group has left a couple of them re NSA surveillance with our Senator on a recent visit. But Glen is doing more than that.
On several occasions he has critically examined what the Bush apologists are saying, and he has decimated their logic and moral framework. He is dismantling their moral legitimacy. Or in Jane’s terms, from posts last Winter, Glen has been systematically discrediting their “brand.” It’s effective, it’s relentless, and it’s necessary. And as the book’s popularity sends more readers to his site, it will become more effective.
Note also how well what he does complements the two very different styles of Christy and Jane. I’d go into rhetorical wars with these three on my side any day of the week.
Slightly OT: anyone following the Hastert/Jefferson story closely? I have made my best guess over at my site, and I would appriciate any feedback people can give me on my theories and opinions, but this is quite a complicated battle, and any help would be greatly appriciated.
I’m giving a copy to my father, a lifelong republican. I think he is ripe for it. Last time I was over to his house there was a copy of the Fedralist Papers next to his chair. Start the meme creep amonst his circle, like roots into the mortar of a wall
The book is so compact and cogent, I really think the decision of the etsbalishemnt is to try to ignore it in hopes it will not gain real traction.
Accordingly, I relly think we should campaign to get it reviewed in the establishment media outlets, or hold them all up to mockery.
Can someone generate a list of targets? Maybe I should ask RP people to write LTE’s to local papers about this once everyone gets back online next week.
As far as waking up the slumbering about the reality of this govt goes- I’m not sure it can be done. They will sleep on peacefully through the whole thing- until they are told that their participation in the anachronism of voting will no longer be required.
About the only possibility is to try to elect dems and give them a shot at it. They may be every bit as complacent as the goopers- but we have nothing to lose. If that doesn’t work- MOVE!
rwcole?
I ain’t movin. They will have to pry this country out of my cold, dead hands.
scarecrow:
The key here is diversity of tactics. What Glen does is great, but at the same time, the gound is prepared for a reception to Glenn’s kind of work by the strategically calculated, ad hominem mockery and rhetorical brutality we sometimes employ.
Pach 30 — I think that’s a great idea. If media outlets aren’t reviewing it we should be causing a stink.
Peterr 24 — I’m working up my opening comments for the Plame panel right now, and I’m going to be certain to offer my thanks to the NYT and WaPo for leaving a hole so wide in the story’s coverage you could drive a truck through. Without the dearth of coverage provided by the traditional media, we wouldn’t be nearly so popular.
This unitary president “concept” is bad. Really bad.
Katrina was incompetent, tax cuts were a total disregard of the needs of the needy (and the middle class), ditto or social security, the Iraq war rested on imperial hubris, but what Glenn exposes is what’s actually illegal.
I’m 54 and I’ve always been a democrat but, during democratic or republican administrations (even Nixon!), I always felt that we would muddle through the hard times. Now I feel as if I’m in a car and, in that slow-motion time-stopping way, I’m gonna crash.
It’s Glenn’s book that shines the light a shows us how to climb out of the wreckage.
The best, likely, outcome of 2006 is Dem House and tighter but still Rep Senate. Pelosi has said she will initiate early hearings dealing with admin. behavior. To paraphrase, how many divisions does the House have? Bush will invoke executive privilege, national security, house can’t have hearings because their security clearance isn’t high enough, etc.
In dealing with an executive branch that has utter contempt for the rule of law who or what
would compel any co-operation with House over-sight. I guess the current attempts to expose NSA actions will be the bell-weather. The administration has blocked congressional action, cut off follow the money, and is now trying to kill court action against the tele-coms due to national security concerns.
I don’t think, even with a House majority, the Dems have the guts to shut off the money. Where is the leverage?
Jane — I have long since learned to accept your judgment about when to use “hot” rhetoric and when not. Took a while, but I’m a little slow. I no longer care what the Bush apologists think about you/us and no longer seek a dialogue with them. Anyone who woulld shill for those policies would have no problems smearing you/us. Let them call us names; they’re beyond hope of persuasion. We only need to worry about when they [rarely] respond with a logical counter-argument. Having Glen there to help you dismantle those feeble attempts has been very gratifying.
It’s the potentially persuadable folks that interest me, and unless I’ve misinterpreted, you’ve started speaking more to them, n’est pas? And Christy’s style fits right in; it has universal appeal when she talks in plain language about just doing the right thing.
Those who won’t fight for their country when all that is required is a trip to the ballot box are pretty unlikely to pick up arms and endanger their lives against tanks and automatic weapons.
No- if this isn’t stopped in the next couple of election cycles- it won’t be stopped at all.
I think we have to accept that a sizeable majority of at least the “first-tier” MSM has simply lost sight of its role when it comes to what constitutes “the public discourse”.
They prefer to be spoonfed and inbred, and if they have any memory of life outside of the one in which they now live, it’s been self-suppressed quite well.
Likewise, while the blogs do what they can to counteract the worst excesses of the present situation, They still reach only a fraction of the public. We’re able to counteract memes to some extent, but we aren’t reaching out to enough people.
And that in turn means that we’re going to need to create our own non-internet media for those that don’t use the internet for that purpose.
The existing MSM won’t listen to us for the most part. They fear us more than anything else, and we can expect the pushback from our efforts to make them be stright with the public to increase as the war in Iraq gets worse, as Cheney pushes us further toward an attack on Iran, and as Fitzgerald shows just how much in bed much of the Beltway Media was in facilitating the scandal regarding Valarie Plame.
The content exists in the blogs, but we need to figure out how we can effectively create and fund such endeavors.
I think we may be on the verge of a new wave of publishing that can be as big, if done right, as the “city papers” growth of the 1970s-1990s. But in this case, it could be national.
My two bits…
Elizabeth Doughty 35 — I’m 54 and I’ve always been a democrat but, during democratic or republican administrations (even Nixon!), I always felt that we would muddle through the hard times. Now I feel as if I’m in a car and, in that slow-motion time-stopping way, I’m gonna crash.
I think it was the Gore movie that pushed me over the edge. I watched it and I thought two more years of this, can we make it? There’s so much that needs to be done right now, and not only is it not getting done, the people in power are actively persecuting anyone who wants to immplement desperately needed forward-looking policy.
It also gave me a bit of hope, though, that there was movement afoot to create some awareness of the monumental problems we face. I really urge everyone to see the movie, and talk about it with your friends. It’s critical that this consciousness take hold.
Steve- I think you’re on it. Dems best hope is for control of one house by a couple of seats- and they’ll have plenty of yellow dogs on board to weaken even that slender hold.
I believe that they are willing to conduct serious hearings- the question is how far they are willing to go if and when Clusterfuck fights back. Ulitimately- unless they are willing to cut off funds and/or impeach- they have no power at all. They’ll be kids runnin ta tell teacher that Johnney is pullin their hair again.
scarecrow on 27–thanks and to the FDL folks thanks. Perhaps OT but Christie’s bite yesterday focussing on “empathy and respect” resonates with me as a frame (hate this way of thinking of these issues), because I would add that I think the Constitution and Bill of Rights are the basic (legal) minimum and “empathy and respect” the emotions or reactions that made these principles possible.
Pach - agree. It takes a variety of skills to win a political struggle. What I worry about is what if we created a strong political movement from the roots up, but the mechanisms for picking the top generals were hopelessly flawed? The essense of your work is to help create a higly motivated, but also highly informed, cadre of activists. Would such a group follow another weak leader? Should it?
The complete failure of a so called “conservative” like Judge “strict constructionist” Bork has really angered me. FDL has really educated me about Republican welfare and Judge Bork is living on it with “Irving” Libby at the Hudson Institute. They wanted Bork to criticize the Harriet Meiers’ SC nomination and he did. They want him to remain silent as Bush destroys the “separation of powers” and he is.
scarecrow: Some insignificant miniblog is calling us out for “hate speech” for the “Rape GUrney Joe” appelation. They cited my post about the HRC, Lamont and Lieberman.
Since hate speech has a definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
Hate speech is a controversial term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a group of people based on their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication.
. . .and “Rape Gurney Joe” does not fit it, and since they are feeling enough of our pressure to whine about us (this was a GOP site defending one of their own, Rape GUrney Joe), I take immense satisfaction in the charge.
It’s the succinctness of the book that amazes me, and like Pach says: cogent and compact. It’s a lightening-flash of the whole inter-related picture of Constitutional abuses. The sheer readabilty of it makes the information thoroughly accessible and comprehensible.
Alas, there are those who just will not read. Among my friends/acquaintances, those who might be inclined to engage in a thought-provoking read are also pursuing careers, getting further degrees, or now raising families and simply really don’t have the time. On the other hand, those not inclined at all toward serious non-fiction reading will, nonethless, engage in social discussion, ie. shooting the shit.
Therefore, my suggestion is to re-read the book again and again until relating its key points, their flow, and most of all their inter-relatedness are easily speakable and adaptable to any social setting. And then do it, over and over, in every possible situation.
scarecrow: I’m not sure I understand the hypothetical scenario you’re getting at. I’d like to hear more, but also want to help keep this thread on topic. PLease send me an email at pachacutec01 at gmail dot com, when you have time, to help me understand what you are getting at in your 3:16.
Palamedes-I agree with you about the MSM. It’s pathetic the debate has about whether this has been illegal or not. There’s no wily interpretation the MSM has to make. All they have to do is tell the truth.
For god’s sake, reading your kid’s diary (actually IM’s) is wrong even if you think some of her friends are just about mini terrorists, but what Bush is doing is overwhelming scary.
Why are more people scared?
Steve @ 31 - The leverage isn’t so much about shutting off the money, but in the control of the cameras. Right now, the Unitary Presidency and his willing peons in the House and Senate are directing the movie they want to see played. That’s why they get so pissed at leaks - someone is spoiling their show.
Even if the Dems only control the House, that gives them the power to hold hearings, turn the cameras on, and point them whereever they want. If BushCo Industries wants to bar the doors of the White House and refuse to participate in the hearings, saying “no cameras allowed,” then they will forfeit the means of putting their message out. The Dems might not “shut off the money,” but simply by being able to hold hearings and talk about the money, they will be able to move the agenda much more than they can at present.
Jane @ 29 - You/We spend lots of time dissecting the reporters’ work, but the greatest sins in the journalistic world right now are being committed by Editors. The weight given to trivial matters (Brangelina, anyone?) and the virtual silence around the lack of oversight by Congress over intelligence matters and general Executive Branch activities is astounding.
Have at ‘em, Jane. I can’t be there, but I’m sure I’ll hear about it somehow. Probably not in the pages of the WashPo, though.
Hayden, the architect of the program is now promoted to hed the CIA, an obvious endorsement of the illegal warrantless domestic spying program. Will these “doormat Dems” ever say enough? Does a person exist, that is so heinous, besides Charles Manson, that could screw up bad enough they would not get festooned with medals and rewarded with promotions? Glenn’s right in that you expect ambitous people to increase power, but in a zero sum game, someone has to give up power. Congress has allowed it and Dems share some blame in all this.
Good afternoon all! I love these book threads. They’re the ones I read long into the wee hours of the morning. I just got my copy so I haven’t had a chance to read it. I just wanted to share a quick story about my brother. He’s 65, retired Army lifer….has lived in Germany for quite some time, but has close ties to home (South Bend, IN). I hadn’t talked to him in a while so I called him this morning. It’s usually a poltical rant with us but he’s always leaned more independent or Libertarian whereas I’m a radical Democrat. Anyway, he is incensed about Bush, Cheney and the rest of the Crony Cabal and what has inflamed him is the power grab. He even mentioned the Unitary Executive bit before I could even start in about it. It is beginnig to sink in in quarters I never expected it would. I just ordered him a copy of Glenn’s book and one for our Dem nominee for our congressional district. Thank you so much for writing it. We should all carry it…in our pockets and purses.
One of Glen’s recurrent themes is the importance of Constitutional principles of checks/balances and those in the Bill of Rights. But it’s not clear that even in the Nixonian period, the majority of Americans fully understood or appreciated how important these were. What I recall is that when the time came, a handful of very impressive people stood up and spoke clearly and eloquently — Archie Cox, Richardson, Barbara Jordan, Holtzman, Rodino, Sam Ervin — and they persuaded the Congress — and the country — that something as drastic as impeachment had to be done — even though there were still many Nixon apologists shilling for the President and trying to undermine the investigations and the Watergate hearings. The press was divided. Are there enough of these patriots today?
What would a patriot do? With great war whoops, a patriot would throw the f*cking tea in the harbor to serve them notice.
We’ve already been using our “hot rhetoric”, been reasonable, been silent. We’ve even tried to get our own to see it our way with little success, even with point men like Feingold (via a call for censure) and Gore (via his speech at Constitution Hall co-sponsored by ‘wingers). And voting them out? Hah!
Obviously we need to try a different tack.
It’s time to hit them in the pocket books. I suggest we abandon all paid corporate media as they are only mouthpieces of the corporatist-authoritarian junta, boycott them completely and use only indy media from here forward until such a time that the corporate media comes around or fails. If in 12 weeks they haven’t clued, we step up to targeted strikes — not a full-on general strike, but close.
We throw their tea with which they intended to make a profit into the briny deep. And we get their attention by the short hairs of their wallets well before the election in NOvember.
I’m reading my book now and I’d just like to add that not only should we carry it in our pockets and purses…….we should carry it in our hearts too.
Peterr–I believe it IS about shutting off the money. Steve’s on the mark. These guys are terrible at governing- they are very GOOD though, at power analysis. If they can get away with stiffing congress- they will do it without compunction- claim that they can’t testify at the hearings due to national security- or executive privelege- or some such- and force congress to force their hand.
If congress isn’t willing to do it WITH THE ONLY CONSTITUTIONAL TOOLS AT IT’S DISPOSAL- the power of the purse and the power to impeach- they’ll be laughed at.
Hi Jane–
I’ll go see the Gore movie when it gets down here to Annapolis, MD, in spite of my fear of feeling too sad and too helpless. I’m glad it is hopeful.
I know this is off-topic but I was reading NYT rural life columnist Verlyn Klinkenborg and he was writing about the weather diary of his upstate NY farm for the last 200 years. He said that he is devastated (his word) that now we have a responsibility and effect on the weather. I understand what he’s saying, even on a beautiful sunny day like today.
Re: scarecrow at 27, “relentless” and “necessary”: yes we need to keep hammering on it and to make the erosion of these guarantees (no longer guarantees if Glenn’s and others’ words and analyses are to be believed) a major campaign issue.
On the meme of “empathy and respect,” (again I hate this way–meme–of putting it), my country has sent thousands of young people off in wars that make no sense to them or us and this government has cut their benefits and refuses to even acknowledge thet they are dying.
We need some state funerals, at least to honor them, not to mention benefits and recognition of the damage we have done to others, thus the “empathy and respect” focus.
Rayne- I think that we’re well past the time for boycotts. That’s like defending yourself with a toothbrush.
We either win congress and convince em to fight fascists or we lose.
While waiting in the dentist’s office, I was reading HWAPA…the hygienist took the time to check out the text as I explained that Glenn Greenwald was a non-partisan attorney specializing First Amendment cases who felt our country was facing a Constitutional crisis. I think if I had had another copy on me, she would have borrowed it immediately.
It’s time to carry a backup copy, one with an explainer bookplate in the front that says it is a topic of discussion here in FDL, and to forward the copy to the next patriot upon completion. I know I’m ordering another one just for this purpose.
Pach — I meant a “weak” Presidential nominee in 2008.
hoosierville — good for you. One of the nice things about the book is that it is, as Pach says, so compact. It’s very cogent and persuasive and I am certainly going to be reading mine again and again. My CtG held up under a 2nd reading, I’m sure Glenn’s book will only get better too.
rwcole: Your last statement sums up the political end-game of the 2006 elections. I think the executive branch actions with regard to NSA spying are the pre-view for what is the future for the rule of law in this country. If the career people in DOJ, Military, and Judiciary don’t stand up to the political hacks, we are really screwed.
I think the next three years will be the most significant since 1857-1860. The problems are different but the psychology of the majority is the same.
Tangential to topic, or maybe not: about editors fwiw.
That’s where the twisting takes place, in most cases, whether intentional or sloppy. Used to be editors were writers who got promoted. Now that’s pretty much not the case, or so it seems. I wrote CD reviews for a while, mostly with no editorial interference. One review was not to the ed’s liking, and her re-write CHANGED THE WHOLE MEANING (sorry, gotta learn html), not just the language. I mean, she put forth an entirely different proposition, and not because I was unclear. It was never published because I refused to okay it.
So it’s the editors we have to call out. Early and often.
rwcole (58) — if the press continues to f*ck every one of our candidates between now and the election, you can kiss winning Congress goodbye. Look what they’re already doing to HRC, for crying out loud.
Winning Congress will take more than media boycotts; it’s going to take going door-to-door to ensure that every swing vote and every progressive vote is activated. We’re already doing that, worked a phone bank this weekend, doing door-to-door next two weekends.
But the f*cking corporatist-authoritarian mouthpiece must be dealt a blow if we are going to win enough swing votes to make clear and convincing — read: uncheatable — margins in November. This is the time when patriots must pull out all the stops and do it ALL, sound the alarm AND throw the tea in the harbor.
Late to the party again,but I did do my homework.
And now, Abu Gonzales is showing off some big ole shiny knives to reporters who publish misdeeds by the administration. Now, here is a conundrum:
Glenn has made it pretty clear that the administration is a fugitive from justice, and has avoided at all costs, any judicial review of this program. Illegal programs cannot be classified. If charges are brought against reporters for disclosing this program, due to it being classified, will the administration have to prove to a court of law the legality of it, therefore qualifying it for classified status?
rwcole-
I agree with you about the Bush Administration’s pitiful governance.
The constitutional abuses of Bushco are also yet more incompetent governance. Sneaking around, lying, making sure you’re not caught in those lies, all that obfuscation and lack of transprancy makes for bad governance. Guantanamo and black prisons is the horrible goverance of justice. Do we really need torture in our toolbox for governance?
If committing constitutional crimes doesn’t get you, how about tying it to incompetence, along with Katrina?
I hate to say or even think it, but the book is not funny. Before you howl stop and think. How did Al Franken sell so many copies of RLIABFI? He didn’t have a radio show. He didn’t have a TV show. The Blogs were in their infancy. His only exposure for a couple of years was the chat shows and “Politically Incorrect” (BTW, it’s no coincidence that Maher was forced off the air). The book sold because it was funny. And you better believe that book did a lot to turn back the rushtide in the West and Northeast. Lots of the same info was in that book as is in Greenwald’s but HWAPA’s not funny! I read this earlier today: Carol Burnett says Comedy is Tragedy Time. We don’t have the time anymore! Hell, Colbert won’t have Glenn on, but he’ll book Ponurru in a hot minute, ’cause it’s funny when they squirm.
Steve- I’m on the same page. The election is the key first step. Dems need to win one house. Next- they have to fight. Are they willing to do it? Won’t know until the time comes.
Steve and rwcole - Let me revise and extend my remarks, as they say on The Hill . . .
By controlling the cameras, the Dems would have the power to shape the public perception of the White House in ways that would make the funding of dubious projects that the White House is pushing for all but impossible.
Look at the micro-case: earmarks. Earmarks work because they generally show up without fingerprints. On the other hand, when people have to actually defend something questionable - in public, with the lights hot and the cameras rolling (or whatever the digital equivalent is) - that’s when business as usual grinds to a halt. The Bridge to Nowhere got smacked around because someone put it on the proverbial front page, above the fold, the Distinguished Senator from Alaska’s clout notwithstanding.
If the Dems show some spine with the cameras, the light they can pour on constitutionally-dubious behavior could be enough to bring the level of said behavior down by several orders of magnitude. End them - no. Reduce them - definitely.
Another example: Murtha’s hour of glory on C-SPAN when he took on the republicans singlehanded. The Republicans thought they could get the Dems backed into a corner with the cameras, by forcing a primetime debate on withdrawing from Iraq. Their problem was that the Dems let Murtha take the whole Republican caucus on by himself. The Republicans gave two minutes to this one and three minutes to that one, which gave each of the speakers a chance to say “hi” to the folks back home. Murtha, on the other hand, had the place to himself to beat and beat and beat on the administration for dumping on the troops, mismanaging the occupations, failing to plan for the peace, etc. Instead of backing the Dems into a corner, they painted themselves into one instead. To a lot of Joe-Six-Packs out there, Murtha came off well and did a lot to get rid of the “Dems-as-Hanoi-Janes” nonsense that many Dems are afraid of.
Properly handled, hearings can make issues disappear before you need to vote on funding. No one likes to be made to look like a fool in public. Especially if they live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
The whole book hit me like a combo of punches,when I got back up off the floor,I was one pissed off dude!
This struck me very hard,from pg.96″But one can protect against the threat of terrorism with courage,calm and resolve-the attributes that have always defined our nation as it has confronted other threats,including many at least as signifigent.Hysteria and fear mongering are the opposite of strength.The strong remain rational and unafraid.”
Truer words were never spoken and in the actions of our government we find the allies of the terrorists,stoking up fear far in excess of the capabilities of the ‘enemy’
A dem congress would mitigate to some extent the news bias issue. As it is, the media has to suck gooper dick to get stories. That’s not the whole problem- but it’s a lot of it with a totally gooper govt. With a dem congress- they’re goin to have to play it straight or they’ll be cut out of half the action. Same for corporate donors who are going to have to start writing two checks- not just one. EVERYTHING changes when congress changes leadership.
I saw on one of the blogs(maybe this one) this morning that Bush was quoting Truman.Bet he did’nt quote the speech on pg.103!
1,164 DAYS AND THE KILLING GOES ON AND ON AND…
“How would a Patriot Act?”:
rwcole saddled up a rhetorical hobby horse of mine for the last few years and I think it’s a part of the answer to Greewald’s question: we need to not only acknowledge that we have full blown fascisti runnin’ the country but we must start usin’ the term as part of our everyday political vocabulary. The American people are way ahead of the “progressive” strategists on this point. I think that we could get a real argument goin’ in the corporate media if we start advancin the term fascist in everyday terms on the blogesphere…the “blogs” are beginnin’ ta drive the level of political argument since the nazis have been tankin in the polls.
If you look at the possibility that the Quissling candidates like Harmon in California, Lieberman in Connectecutt and Montgomery in Montana are all in danger of bein knowcked out in the primaries, I think we better wake up and find out where the people are goin here id we wanna good spot in the parade.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BE AFRAID TA CALL A SPADE A SHOVEL ER A REPUBLICRAT A FASCIST!!
DMM -
Shorter version of Bush at West Point: “The buck stops there. With you, that is, ’cause I’ll be gone before it’s over.”
Doesn’t anyone in the media remember that Truman made his reputation during WWII running a commission charged with investigating war profitteering?
By the way, how’s that KBR audit coming, Dubya? (Oh, wait a minute. . . that would mean letting the sunlight in on some of that manure. Never mind.)
DMM 70 — Hysteria and fear mongering are the opposite of strength.The strong remain rational and unafraid
Very nice quote from Glenn.
An important idea related to the book, elliptically covered, is that the “War on Terror” is a sham. Atrios made this point earlier today, though many others have made it as well.
http://atrios.blogspot.com/200.....4773673694
My Spidey sense says more on this point is coming from our side.
Is the WOT a pretext for expanding executive power, as Christy wrote about Cheneney, Addington and the signing statements earlier today?
Has this gutting of the Constitution been the whole point all along?
Peterr 74 — the Truman Commission on War Profiteering is one of my pet bugs. I have absolutely no idea why the Dems aren’t calling for it to be reconvened, at least none I want to think about for too long.
And winning congress goes farther than voting Dem. It requires involvement and voting at the primary level as well. You need real candidates who both care about these (constitutional) issues and are willing to take a stand.
So don’t get discouraged, because this is going to take at least one more Congress election cycle. The progressive challengers that have stepped up this cycle are just priming the pump. Next cycle those challenges will be stronger and more numerous.
Either that or we lose.
Pach 76 — Atrios’ point this morning was very well taken. Any legitimate battle against terrorism is almost wholly separate from the Bush definied “war on terror,” which basically means an excuse to call anyone who opposes his power grab a traitor.
His trumpeting of the phrase demeans the efforts of those who genuinely care about defending the nation from real threats of terrorism.
I was very interested in Glenn’s description of how he came to be concerned about the Bush administration’s post-9/11 behavior, especially since he says he “was among those who strongly approved of his performance” after the attacks.
I have to admit I was far more skeptical initially. After all, it was my belief from having tracked Bush’s record on antiterrorism work before 9/11 that his atrocious handling of the issue was not likely to change afterward. I too supported the decision to invade Afghanistan, but felt that even that was badly mishandled, and when the focus shifted to Iraq, I knew we were in trouble in terms of making serious headway against terrorism.
Still, I think my red flags went up at the same time as Glenn’s (pp.2-3):
“What first began to shake my faith in the administration was its conduct i the case of Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen arrested in May 2002 on U.S. soil and then publicly labeled “the dirty bomber.” The administration claimed it could hold him indefinitely without charging him with any crime and while denying him access to counsel.
I never imagined that such a thing could happen in modern America — that a president would claim the right to order American citizens imprisoned with no charges and without the right to a trial. In China, the former Soviet Union, Iran, and countless other countries, the government can literally abduct its citizens and imprison them without a trial. But that cannot happen in the United States — at least it never could before. If it means anything to be an American citizen, it means that we cannot be locked away by our government unless we are charged with a crime, given due process by the court, and then convicted by a jury of our peers.
I was alarmed by the Padilla case as well, and for the same reasons — but from a somewhat different perspective.
I had spent much of the previous ten years researching the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II, the results of which I published in my book Strawberry Days. And what I knew, all too well, was that American citizens have been imprisoned with no charges and without the right to a trial; I knew that the United States government had in fact abducted its citizens and incarcerated them without a trial, it had locked them away without being charged with a crime.
And it was all done, in fact, under the same circumstances the Bush administration was now claiming gave it free rein, namely, its powers as a wartime executive.
Before Strawberry Days was published, I explored this in some detail at American Street, using some of the material that later was published in the book:
What the Japanese-American internment revealed for the first time was a hole in the traditional checks and balances of constitutional powers. In wartime, the total deference to the executive branch would lend it nearly comprehensive powers. The post-Sept. 11 response has opened another dimension to this: If wartime — as in the “War on Terror” — becomes itself a never-ending enterprise, hen the executive branch’s power becomes potentially illimitable.
Up to the edge of that hole in the Constitution, the Bush administration has driven a large bus called “enemy combatant status” and parked it. It now sits, idling.
As reporter Charles Lane explained in the Washington Post, the Bush administration’s creation of this status actually created a parallel legal system with secret courts that ultimately are only accountable to the president himself: “For example, under authority it already has or is asserting in court cases, the administration, with approval of the special Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, could order a clandestine search of a U.S. citizen’s home and, based on the information gathered, secretly declare the citizen an enemy combatant, to be held indefinitely at a U.S. military base. Courts would have very limited authority to second-guess the detention, to the extent that they were aware of it.”
Ultimately, the president himself would be the person making the call on just who qualifies as an “enemy combatant.” And what would be the Bush administration’s criteria for making these decisions?
“There won’t be 10 rules that trigger this or 10 rules that end this,” explained Solicitor General Theodore Olson in the Post. “There will be judgments and instincts and evaluations and implementations that have to be made by the executive that are probably going to be different from day to day, depending on the circumstances.”
I think this is the summation of the Bush Theory of the Executive: as a wartime president, he gets to call the shots, at his whim.
Elsewhere, I’ve seen administration defenders explain that, since the president is an elected official, ultimately the only real checks on his wartime powers are the voters, not the judicial or legislative branches.
I explored this a little bit further:
The Padilla case remains in limbo — though the public was recently given some insights into the government’s reasoning in the case, thanks to a Wall Street Journal piece by Bradford A. Berenson, who served as associated White House Counsel under Bush. The key to the reasoning lies in this paragraph, and directly reflects Solicitor General Ted Olson’s contention that the “enemy combatant” designation could be made at the whim of the president:
“The president’s power as commander in chief to do what is necessary to protect the nation in time of war is, as it must be, exceptionally flexible and robust. He can engage and subdue the enemy in any way he sees fit. There is no judicial check on his authority in this vital and sensitive area because there cannot be: As the Framers expressly recognized in the Federalist Papers, the ‘decision, activity, secrecy, and dispatch’ that are the hallmarks of unitary executive power are ‘essential to the protection of the community against foreign attacks.’ “
As Arthur Silber observes in response:
“[I]f this idea were to be established and accepted, it would provide the framework — in principle — for an absolute dictatorship. No, that dictatorship would not arrive overnight, but history demonstrates that dictatorships can arrive slowly, by degrees and by increasingly authoritarian steps. It need not happen all at once. But under this “reasoning” and in principle, every United States citizen could be imprisoned for a lifetime. End of story.”
What I didn’t anticipate — though in hindsight, it was obvious — was that Bush would use his newly expanded wartime powers to proceed into areas other than incarceration of citizens. Such areas, obviously, including surveillance of citizens.
How would a patriot act?
On July 4th, 2006 a patriot would declare independence from tyranny.
Tyranny is torture and Abu Ghraib.
Tyranny is warrantless wiretapping.
Tyranny is rewarding your rich friends.
Tyranny is holding American citizens without indictment, without trial, and without access to legal representation.
Tyranny is depleting the Treasury of the country.
Tyranny is developing dossiers on innocent and unsuspecting Americans.
Tyranny is raiding the offices of Congressional members in secret and without informing the Speaker of the House regardless of reason.
Tyranny is ignoring the laws of the land thru deception and machinations of ‘good’ intentions.
Publish your own list of grievances along with your personal declaration of independence in your local newspaper, on your blog, or just print it out and hand deliver it to the nearest federal building on July 4th.
That is how a patriot should act.
Winning congress is a matter of getting more seats than the other guys- that’s all there is to it.
Once you’ve won congress- then you call the shots- the White House has to kiss your ass to get any legislation passed- the press has to kiss your ass in order to find out what’s going on etc.
Let’s not overcomplicate this thing- or let victory stand aside in hopes of perfection.
Peterr,
I’m so tired of that buck stopping anywhere but where it belongs,and the press letting him get away with it.
Jane,
This book is a wake up call to all that will listen.I thought I was up on the adminisration’s crap,I did’nt have a handle on half of it.Perhaps its just seeing it in one place and time.I’m starting to see the book as a motevator,a match to the fire so th speak.With CtG as a roadmap to what to do with that anger.
rwcole: No, that’s not all there is to it.
Not only do we need to control Congress, but we need a Congress that will in fact hold the administration accountable.
That requires pressure from a growing, powerful movement. You very commonly oversimplify this stuff and you are frankly dead wrong.
Stoller has some good thoughts here:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/5/28/14328/3630
Argh - I need to be out while there is still daylight, but I’m getting sucked in. Glenn’s book is a gem. I’m going to get a couple of more and IMO, a package set of his book and Feingold’s Prog Patriot coffee mug with the redacts on the Bill of rights that fade out with heat - great and point making combo.
The book is very readable (and how’d he keep it so cheap?) and I think the comments above (scarecrow “job as patriots is to keep pointing out how evil this philosophy is” Peterr “sunshine”, Jane “Jane Harman would not be backpeddling, nor would her challenger Marcy Winograd be nipping at her heels, if her complicity in all of this hadn’t been dragged into the sunlight by people like Glenn”) combine to show how important Glenn’s specialty is to our society.
The First Amendment means you get to discuss how all the others should be handled. Why leaders are good or bad. Why POLICIES are good or bad. It is why the current attacks on journalists and their sources are so disturbing. It is why c-span is such a boon. It is why FDL is more fundamental than WaPo or NYT. It is also why facts need to be be available as much as possible - not constantly hidden, misrepresented, held back as classified or attacked in courts as state secrets.
It exists bc wise men who had seen and studied the good and bad of history knew that without the First Amendment, there would be a high cost extracted from this country, a price paid for suppression of facts that becomes exponentially higher. Suppression, like a lie, never stays in steady state; if allowed to take hold it grows exponentionally. It chokes out other values and rights and provides the worst basis for the worst decisions. Suppression of facts before the war in the name of pseudo security resulted in all of the Bill of Rights now being held hostage.
As aggravatingly tuned out as the American public seem, you only get things like the war in Iraq by misleading and deceiving them. By using the media and military and intel branches to help plant misleading concepts so that we go to war with a huge number of people believing a fact readily shown to be false: that the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi. Because the First Amendment is fragile in the hands of zealots convinced of their right, and strongest in the hands of the undecided in search of answers.
I hit this below but think it applies here as well - a link to Mora’s acceptance for his profiles in courage award. http://tinyurl.com/m73k2
IMO, he is the definition of a patriot. I know we would disagree on many things, but he was determined to talk about and expose right and wrong. He didn’t just speak up once, he spoke over and over until he left. He didn’t just speak - he put the fear in all of them by putting his objections and concerns in writing - to hit each necessary desk, to paper files that no one wanted papered, to stand in rebuke to the “we ran it by lot of lawyers and they were all ok with it.”
Hopefully this isn’t going too far OT, but here are the guys that Mora also claimed as patriots and IMO sunshine isn’t just for those who let us down, it’s about, what Memorial Day is about, thanking those to whom we owe a debt.
From Mora’s speech:
I am indebted to Secretary England for his superb leadership and superb leadership team; to my colleagues at the Navy Office of General Counsel, personified by Bill Molzahn, Art Hildebrant, and Peter Murphy; to the Navy Judge Advocate General Corps, which was led on my watch by RADMs Don Guter, Mike Lohr, and Jim McPherson; to the Judge Advocate Division of the Marine Corps and its commander, BG Kevin Sandkuhler; and to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, led by Dave Brant. Each of them – and many others – has my gratitude and admiration. They deserve the thanks of all for their service, and for what they have done to protect our Nation and the values upon which it stands.
In 2000 a Presidential election was stolen. There wasn’t a Constitutional crisis. The Democratic candidate Al Gore folded. The Senate (if you remember the wrenching scene from Fahrenheit 911) turned its back on its responsibilities. The courts facilitated and sanctioned the coup. The press was quick to see the fracas over and done with. Nothing here, move along. Few citizens went or were willing to go to the barricades.
Then patriots at all levels did nothing. Those who stole the election learned a valuable lesson: they could steal and break the law with impunity, and they did. I salute all of you who reject this President and this Presidency. Most of the nation has but we are still at a remarkable disadvantage. We are constrained by the laws we seek to uphold. Our opponents have no such restraints. Their lawlessness whether originally opportunistic or by design is now habit. They will not change. They can not change. They must be worn down, broken and removed. The only questions are whether there is enough of a Constitution and an electoral process left to do this and whether our elected representatives will discharge their Consitutionally mandated responsibilities. We can set the stage but they are still the actors.
rw — yes, winning Congress back is important. But Congress doesn’t have the appointing power, and we will have 8 years of mostly atrocious appointments to reverse. Just to cite one important example: The consolidation of the media has been accomplished with the assistance/indulgence of the FCC and its rule-making powers, and those people need to be replaced. Consolidation is also a matter of which mergers become subject to DoJ review for antitrust violations. And so on. There is a decade’s worth of administrative agency decisions, in every area of the economy, that will define the political landscape for many years to come. That is why they next President is so critical — you have to know what needs to be done in each agency, appoint the people who understand that, and get them confirmed. This will take many years, under the best of political outcomes.
Pacha- It IS that simple. Controlling congress is the whole ball game right now. With it- we’ve got a chance- without it- we are a dingleberry on the butt of democracy. I couldn’t disagree more.
Steve @ 61 — Yes to the next three years being the most important to the Republic since 1857.
What Greenwald, Jane, Christie, Digby and many others have been eloquently saying, directly and indirectly, is that the United States faces a constitutional crisis. In a way, the crisis has been building since Watergate. The Bush Administration is the full, toxic bloom of the roots that weren’t pulled up then.
I’d like to think that “How Would a Patriot Act?” is the first installment in a modern “Federalist Papers” — the second volume being a consideration of how to use the Federal courts to hold accountable elected officials who have violated the law. A third volume would be prescriptive: how we step back from the abyss of tyranny, and return to our representative democracy.
rwcole: I think we can summarize our positions by saying you think winning back Congress is the whole thing, and I think that’s the beginning, and not our only strategic focus. I want to do more things at once, and you want to concentrate on one thing.
Is that fair?
Delivering CTG to congress worked well.
How about delivering Glenn’s book to key reporters and editors at NYT and WAPO?
Along with a link to this afternoon’s discussion.
Scarecrow- of course much of the damage can’t be reversed without holding the White House. 2006 is simply a holding action- to keep the train from sliding completely off the tracks. 2008 is when America gets a chance to actually change her mind about direction.
rwcole,
I have to agree with Pach on this one.Anyone see Shumer this morning blathering on about america not wanting investigations.I know he’s Senate,but many Dems don’t seem to want to bother,and I don’t think they would if in the majority.We have to apply pressure,even with a majority.
Tom Griffin: A number of people have flaoted that basic idea. I’m waiting to see if anyone will step up to organize it. These things come from the roots.
The word “Patriot” in Glenn’s title is powerful. There can be a deep patriotism isn “My country right or wrong” and we democrats need to make clear we protect what’s right and correct what’s wrong. This is inextricable with national security.
Bushco has so manipulated “national security” that we’re fighting terrorist ghosts as well as all to real killers in Iraq. Do you feel safer yet?
Pacha-
I think it’s a matter of immediate priorities.
I think we both agree that in the long run- if dems don’t hold at least three legs of the power triangle- with principled people- there will be no lasting progress.
We would both like to see dems take over congress (at least one house) in 06. We would both like to see a shift in the composition of the congressional delegation to dems with a more progressive point of view.
The point of conflict comes when we discuss whether it’s worth risking goal one (for example taking back the senate this year) for a chance at goal two (for example retiring Lieberman).
I say it’s not worth the risk- you say it is. Guess neither of us is going to change our minds on that.
DMM–Don’t think I’ve ever spoken against pressuring dem senators to do the right thing. Did I say something to suggest that?
Mom, er, Jane
rw threw up and pach is gettin’ all the big pieces.
Will Glenn’s blook be available in Lost Wages?
I think my newly evolved pessimism and my parallel to the late 1850’s is based on the premise that the majority know that there are a lot of problems but that it will all work out in the end because this is America. In dealing with slavery and sovereignty, Americans believed the political process would solve the problem. The fact that a group of people were willing to change the rules and that, in today’s terms, 6 million people would die was unthinkable.
Today we also have groups of people who have changed the rules and want to change them even more for religious, political, financial, and other reasons. Bush’s legal, political, and military advisors believe the Constitution is an outmoded document. I don’t see any political check in the Constitution for dealing with subversion of all three branches of gov’t. (If investigating reporters, giving billions to right wing religious groups and spying on Americans without warrants isn’t subversion of the Constitution; what is?)
I will continue to give money to progressive candidates and hope the political corrective process still works. If it doesn’t, God help the children.
Mary — thanks for the Mora cite. The lesson is not just to expose the wrong doing, but to also honor those who stood up for principle and showed courage in doing so. Identify the patiots, and honor them. And not just on Memorial Day.
Pacha- Oops- that was supposed to be “two legs”.
Just to clarify on my thoughts about 06.
If dems have no chance of taking the senate- then I’m all for taking some of em out in the primaries to get their attention.
Or-
If a certain race is such that there is no way of losing a seat because of the primary challenge- then I’m for that as well.
If there is a chance of losing a seat- AND a chance of taking back the senate- then I won’t touch it with a ten foot pole.
That’s my story and I’m stickin to it.
rwcole,
perhaps I misread,its happened before
Jane 78 - too many have been too touched by the lobbyists is what I think. Even if not in an Abramoff sense, in the sense that they rely so heavily on contributions to stay in office.
While the press as the fourth estate has fallen, lobbyists have replaced them in power, but with a very different impact on society. Political disucssion and debate and real news has given way to soundbytes, endorsements, propaganda and having enough money to drown out any still small voice(s).
Lobbyists are the new 4th estate and their activities are not to the benefit of the people, but the corporate state alliance. That sounds all “poli-sci-ish” and I avoided polisci like the plague, but I think it is the situation. Corporations and lobbyists and the power of the perpetual campaign have not replaced the media - they’ve sucked it in with its reliance on corporate support and being “on message” as well.
Gone while there is still daylight, but I’ll read it all later this evening. Keep up the good stuff.
rwcole:
We also calculate risks differently.
I think Lamont can win, and you don’t.
I also factor in the risk of failing to support Lamont, and what that does to the development of a progressive movement that can become powerful and engaged in America. I have not heard you discuss your assessment of the risk of alienating those people when they are energized and motivated. Losing them does, what, exactly, for the long term?
But this is a discussion about HWAPA, and I agree that we desperately need at least one side of Congress to begin to perform congress’s constitutional duty to push back on an executive branch that has assumed monarchial powers. As Glenn points out, our framers and Tom Paine argue that in the new world, the Law is King.
On the other hand, BushCo has asserted the unaccountable power to do precisely what the King of England did to the colinists: arrest without recourse to the courts or due process, i. e., the “rights of Englishmen.”
Pacachutec @ 77 — the evidence seems to be piling up that the GWOT is in fact a pretext for the extension of executive power and a usurption of the Constitution. The problem is how to carefully insulate such an argument from that which claims the Administration caused the September 11th attacks.
Scarecrow at 100 — Amen to that. More patriots please, fewer morons, lazy weasels and greedy jerks.
And sorry I missed out on such a great discussion. Just got back with Fiona from the doctor’s (ear infection, barfed all over me waiting for her prescription…long story).
I’m so glad that the discussion has really gotten into the meat of Glenn’s book. It’s an extraordinary exploration of things that ought to be inherently understood by anyone who works in our government. But the fact that the principles Glenn talks about are not only not adhered to, but are actively being blocked in so many ways (see the Cheney-Addington article from this morning) is a testament to how out of whack our Constitutional system is.
I am SO grateful to Glenn for putting all of this in book form. And I do hope that more and more people pick it up and read it. It’s one of those eye-opening, whack you up side the head sorts of reads when you haven’t been giving the breadth of the problem much thought — and I think a whole hell of a lot of Americans need their eyes opened.
(Great essay on the book, too, Jane!)
scory: easy. We support science and evidence. and that camp has done nothing but spin fantasies withouth evidence. I have no problem bitchslapping those arguments until such time as I see credible evidence.
Pach @ 104 –
By supporting Lamont, we make a statement.
If Lamont wins, it is a political earthquake.
If Lamont comes close, it still sends a message — fuck with the activist base at your peril.
Winning is important, especially in the short term.
Subverting the dominant paradigm is the ultimate long term goal.
I plan to buy more copies to give to family and freinds.As far as the papers,is it just a matter of someone taking them a copy,or would it carry more weight coming from a group?
I’d like to make a suggestion that we review this book again when it has been available a little longer. And maybe when some of the suggestions to get it more widely read have been carried out it. I don’t have it yet, so can’t really contribute intelligently to a discussion. Just from reading Glenn’s blog, I expect it is as great as all of you are saying. We definitely need an all-in-one-place round-up of all the horrors, and the arguments against it.
BTW, I do plan to order the book as soon as I can; as an older person no longer able to work in her profession, and therefore earning way less than I once did, with concomitant limited credit (due to the effects of the years without income, which has happened to many, many of us…and they wonder why the average person doesn’t recognize how “great” the economy is. oops, pardon, I digress), I may not be able to order it, since that requires a credit. Does anyone know if it will be appearing in bookstores? Or is that too much to expect, given the chains’ ordering methods?
tejanarusa at 112 — one good thing to do is to check with your local library and ask if they have ordered it. That’s a great way to read it for free for yourself — and assure that others in your community will be able to do so as well. :)
Pacha- I have no idea if Lamont CAN win. Maybe he CAN- that’s ONE possible outcome.
Here’s my risk analysis:
Lamont wins the primary and goes on to win the general- best possible outcome- likelihood- slim.
Lieberman wins the primary and goes on to win the general. No harm no foul- no worse off than we are now. Likelihood high.
Lieberman drops out- runs as an indie and wins the general- then votes gooper for leadership. Worst possible outcome- likelihood moderate.
So the way I do risk analysis is- you don’t trade a low likelihood of a positive outcome for a moderate probability of a tragic one.
But that’s just me.
Pach, please check your gmail account.
Thanks, Christy - I plan to do that, but the sad truth about our library system (though it has improved since I’ve lived here) is that it takes a good while for new books to get ordered and into the system. This is especially true for small-press, under-the- radar, not-reviewed-by-Library-Journal books. OTOH, if enough requests are made, they will usually try to get it. The book budget in our system is pitifully small for a large city.
If/when I do get a copy, I will probably donate it to the my branch, where I am well-known .
(and btw, your doctor was available on Sunday??! Another score for small-town living?)
Not having the benefit of reading Glenns book, but have read his blog, Some points that he’s made are compelling. Set aside all legal arguments, which is hard for a constitutional lawyer to do, he points out that a government that can spy on you, lock you up, torture and even kill you, with no reasons or warrants or due process, or any of that high falootin’ legal stuff, is foreign to what we grew up to believe that means to be an American. This is how he will be able to avoid being pigeonholed as a “far left shreeking unhinged moonbat…”
No one, conservatives or liberals, owns the title of “Patriot” to the exclusion of the others. The rampant lawbreaking by this administration should be denounced by all true patriots.
Pachacutec — I completely agree.
But I also belive that the GWOT is the guise for at the very least an extension of executive powers. What I’m trying to say is, given the lack of sublety of the MSM, creating a effective frame that ties the sham GWOT with Cheneney and Shrub’s Constitutional shredding is very, very difficult.
ck,
That’s exactly it. Ultimately the answer is that the people must rise up and reject tyranny, through elections and organizing.
What I like about Glenn’s book is the emphasis on personal responsibility. This isn’t a problem with the government, this is an American problem that we must all work to rectify.
The first time I encountered Greenwald’s writing was at his blog, and I was immediately struck by the integrity in his writing. His articulation of ideas, his love of law and the Constitution were so palpable to me that I exulted that such a person could be writing blog for all the rest of us. And then, I recalled that in our history, the people who wrote the Constitution were just such people, and that Greenwald was following in the finest tradition of patriotic Americans who act to effect change. He has the knowledge, the committment to truth and the ability to express himself, clearly. We could all emulate this and be better citizens for it.
rwcole (#114):
so, you’re willing to “play it safe” and end up with Jomentum? when, then do we really put the pedal to the metal? ‘08? lamont and a number of other candidates out there now need us now. i see no point in being just luke warm about all of this. we have some momentum. we have a window of opportunity. if we just piss it away we’re just like all of the namby pambies in congress right now. the country is in a mortal crisis. every minute we waste means the neocons make their victory more certain. carpe diem. otherwise we put a gun to our own heads and really get EPU’ed.
fahrender. I play to win- that means not taking sucker bets.
I didn’t get a chance to start reading the book until this afternoon, but got through about the first third of it. I was late to this discussion due to Internet issues, but have finished reading the comments, which are very good.
I guess what has impressed me the most about the portion of the book that I have read so far–beyond the high quality of writing and argumentation–is how thoroughly Glenn debunks the notion that somehow Bush and the NSA have not broken the law.
One of my senators, Sen. Pat Roberts (R-WH) wrote a reply to me on that issue, saying he has reviewed the law and found that the program is in compliance with it. I say bull!@#%. He did not cite a shred of legal authority to support his position. That’s because he can’t. There isn’t any.
Since the MSM won’t do it, the Netroots need to get the word out as clearly as possible that the administration has broken the law, as Glenn so skillfully explains.
I certainly support the goal of the Democrats taking back at least one house of Congress. I don’t know whether that will be enough, however. This past week, only a handful of Democrats voted against the Hayden nomination to the CIA. The rest of them implicitly endorsed the Bush crime family’s systematic violation of the law (FISA). What can we do about that?
Anyway I look at it I see the Lamont campaign as a flexing of the netroots strength,as well as a battle to do the right thing.Joe is a dead end street,he has to go.If he were to switch to independent would that not be a turn off to voters?How do we know Ned can’t win if we don’t try our hardest?If we don’t do our best we only sell ourselves short.What a wake up call to the establishment if he wins!
Matt at 115: “What I like about Glenn’s book is the emphasis on personal responsibility. This isn’t a problem with the government, this is an American problem that we must all work to rectify.” Yep. And that’s been a subtheme running through several posts over the last few days.
The earlier Memorial Day posts/comments gave us numerous examples of why Brokaw described those from the WWII era as the “Greatest Generation.” I’m in awe of what they did and what they gave up for the common good. There were a few comments however, including some referencing the Marine unit alleged to have deliberately killed innocent civilians, that caused some friction; but stepping back, our discomfort may partly be caused by the implication that it’s unlikely that future generations will look back on the last 10-20 years and call us the “greatest generation” in our turn. What will they say about us? Did we stand up when it was important to do so and saved the country when it was at risk? Or did we stand by while critically important principles of goverance and responsible behavior were compromised and weakened?
Think of how the “war on terror” is framed. The common theme is that this is not our fault; there is a ruthless, inhuman enemy out there willing to kill us FOR NO REASON other than “they hate our freedoms.” Is this really true? Or does their willingness to give up their lives in killing innocent Americans have something to do with how our foreign policies have affected them and their families?
With so much jingoism to overcome, we can’t even begin to have an intelligent conversation about how to “fight” a war on terror until we honestly face that question. And there is nothing in the Bush framework that allows that question to be even raised, let along discussed without risking political suicide.
But suppose we had that conversation, and we concluded that dealing with the roots of terrorism required us to fundamentally rethink how we live, what energy we use, how much and how we use it and how we relate to those outside out borders. What if it required us to give up things we take for granted? Would our generation be able to say, “yes, we were strong and wise enough to accept the challenge of this generation, just as our predecessors did in their time.” I don’t know the answer.
I read Glenn’s powerful book this week and agree that it’s a gem.
I also agree with DMM in #84:
I thought I was up on the adminisration’s crap, I didn’t have a handle on half of it. Perhaps it’s just seeing it in one place and time.
Greenwald builds his case carefully and eloquently in a short space, I think, and I see this book increasingly appealing to persuadable people who might resist longer and more fiery versions of the facts.
(PS: As there’s a new poster by the name of Dale…whose ideas so far I like a lot, BTW…I’m changing my handle to the more descriptive Dale in Alabama to eliminate confusion.)
I was quite stunned by Glenn’s admission that he didn’t vote prior to being outraged by the excesses of BushCorp. I have (almost) always voted, but I understand where he’s coming from. In the pre-Bush world, it was easy to think that it didn’t matter all that much who was president, or who controlled congress during any given cycle. Somehow the system managed to be self-correcting. Perhaps something like this was Al Gore’s thinking when he conceded in 2000. But man, oh man, what a wake-up call these last 6 years have been (even though I admit to being only half awake until the spring of 2004). I’m 48 years old, and never before have I been anywhere near this worried about the future.
neurophius 5:18 p.m.
shorter me: what can we do when even the majority of the Democrats in congress won’t stand up to uphold the separation of powers and Congressional oversight?
The vote is the only true barometer for political action. A newbie candidate can jerk a grizzled veterans head around, even tho the newbie loses. The race between Ned and Joe, as I see it, is for the future of the Democratic party. The only status quo outcome would be if Ned lost in a big way. Apparently that will only happen if Joe abandons the Democratic party officialy, and runs as an independent. Still, the effects to the power structure of the Schumers and hand picked “analists” (sic?) of the democratic party would be huge. Sorry to get OT Jane, but I fired a warning shot on #99, and you can’t put shit back into the donkey.
neurophius,
Last week I attended 2 meetings with congressional staffers.Towards the end we asked what can the Roots do to help our Dem leaders?The reply was constituant pressure on Repugs(one reply anyway)to resist their stonewalling.Push back on Roberts again!Enlist any who belive as you do!Great work!
oh Margaret @ 118,
you state beautifully what I’ve been thinking -
HWAPA is my Common Sense, and all these unwashed
pamphleteersbloggersreminding us all of what is important
despite Herculean tasks ahead for all of us, on some days I feel blessed, not cursed that Fate put me here at at his time to do the very thing the Founders charged us all with doing - it is not simply some romanticized sense of adventure that sets a burning inside whenever Rayne talks about a tea party
I just put a copy of the book on hold at the Multnomah County Library (Portland, Oregon). It appears that our much-lauded libarary has one copy, with two more on order. If more Portlanders put a hold on it (only seven people ahead of me currently), they will buy more of the books.
DMM
Thanks. Roberts is such an enabler. His arrogance knows no bounds. The person in his position should be leading the fight to save the Constitution from the bushistas. Instead he is a collaborator.
What Margaret said at 5:03 (#s are shifting around tonight)
scarecrow,
You been puttin’ up some mighty shiny verbiage 2nite. Just back from the Emerald city?
scarecrow,
I don’t think people will look back kindly on this time.The Gov sells fear,and we’re buying.
The sad thing is this,the terrorists cannot challenge us directly,thus a gurrilla war.One of the goals of a gurilla war is to create fear greater than the actual threat.They have been sucsessful in this aided by our own gov,for its own purposes(power grab).Thus the Gov is allied with the terrorists.
(I’ve borrowed themes from Glenn’s book on this,the allied part is mine though)
Jane, or Christy, or Pach, if you are still here:
Will we be discussing this book again? It might be a good idea, after more people have had time to read it.
Oh, I just went back to the top of the page and answered my own question. June 4 it is.
Oilfieldguy — as a friend of mine once said, “Well, that’s you all over!” And it wasn’t a compliment, either.
That’s what friends are for.
neurophius -
sounds like there’s a LTE addressed to the Oskaloosa Independent in your future
cbl:
Could be. Why that paper?
neurophius,
I get so pissed at my Senator(Mikulski)for not trying to stand up to Roberts in the intellegince committe I just want to freak.Yet when we met with staffers I did’nt mention it.We were discussing forign policy(Iran,Iraq)and when you get a meeting you stay on topic.We in the MD roots are trying to build bridges,not rant or fly a laundry list of issues.However,was’nt happy about her vote on Hayden that very day.
DMM — perhaps, and that would be sad. But things are changing. The public is ready to hear a different message from the right person. But who is that? Someone who asked them to be courageous instead of fearful, and who asked them for sacrifice for the common good, while laying at a clear vision of that common good, might just be able to bring out the best in us again. Jeez - a upstate New York liberal guy with polio in a wheelchair did it 70 years ago.
I think the American people are hungry for that, because they want to think well of themselves and their country again and just need someone to explain, clearly, how that can happen. They’re sick to the heart of seeing and hearing all the awful stuff that’s goin’ down in their name. The “had enough?” meme is out there, but it hasn’t been tapped yet. And it ain’t a Hillary Clinton who can do that.
neuro at 137 — we’ll be discussing Glenn’s book again next week on Sunday afternoon — with Glenn here to talk about it with us. :)
I think we all have to realize that there is a great deal of complicity on the Democratic side of the asile. Some of those people are rich. Their attitude is “we’re the only game in town.” I don’t know what that says, but maybe it says we have to get a whole new group of people to run against them in the primaries. At least then, we have a real choice.
The question is who, how and when will this nefarious administration be stopped?
It won’t be congress or the media.
scarecrow at 5:46 p.m.
Wesley Clark? Just a thought. I was thinking that for the future, if some of the Fighting Dems get elected this year, they may develop into that kind of leader. Then I thought of Clark.
Christy: I’ll look forward to it. Is Glenn going to be at YKos?
Re: getting a copy at the library - I just went through my library’s catalog and list of new books…I’m definitely requesting HWAPA - on the new books list are Hugh Hewitt’s “Painting the Map Red”, a bio of James Dobson, and - wait-for-it– The Heritage Guide to the Constitution”!!! Yes, that’s as in Heritage Foundation, and among the authors is listed, are you ready? Ed Meese! Ed Meese!
I plan to look this book up, as soon as the holiday is over, and see just what atrocities are being perpetrated.
Just makes it that much more important that Glenn (gee, we’re awfully familiar, aren’t we?) was able to put together his book. It’s about time we counter the trash the right-wingers are putting out with impunity.
Oh, and the original point of my search - HWAPA is not in the catalogue. Sad.
142 neurophius
I believe the Oskaloosa Independent has been owned and published by dear Patsy’s family for over a hundred years
Nobody @ 5:22—I too was surprised by Glenn’s statement that he hadn’t appreciated the importance of voting until after 2001. It seemed rather incongruous that a constitutional law attorney would not recognize a basic responsibility in a democracy. Guess we’ll have the chance to ask him the question next week.
scarecrow,
I’m hungry for that sort of leadership,and I think it would energize the nation.Aren’t we tired of being told to shop while our rights are nibbled away like rats on a peice of cheese?
150 tejanarusa
might be time to remind your local librarians that everyone of those so called authors listed above had no problem with the “Let’s Harass The Librarians” portion of the so called Patriot Act
HWPA is as clear and concise as Common Sense, and as well-reasoned as The Federalist Papers, an absolutely invaluable book.
The main point I take from it is this: the mechanisms of a police state in the U.S. are already in place; so is the will to use them among particular officials — notably Cheney, Gonzales, et al. — against domestic political opponents. I take it as a given that George Bush has never read the Constitution, and would have no deep understanding of it if he did. He is essentially irrelevant, except to the degree that he serves to enable policies concocted by others.
At this point, happily, there is still considerable resistance to this embryonic police state, if not among elected officials, then certainly in the military, and at staff levels in Congress and the Justice Department.
That said, we don’t have much time. If the Bush administration can demonstrate that the American people will give them a pass each time they extend their secret surveillance of citizens, selectively prosecute their political oppnents, or snatch people not named Ahmed or Farhan off the streets and “disappear” them, such methods will be come a routine part of the U.S. executive toolkit, and it will no longer matter what the Constitution says or doesn’t say. The American Revolution will have to be fought all over again.
HWAPA is an eloquent warning; we should heed it.
I think we’ve been long ago EPU’d here,but a good discussion nontheless
tejanarusa says:
May 28th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
tejanarusa: I just e-mailed my local public library and requested that they acquire HWAPA.
I’ve already lent my copy to the guy who’s remodeling my kitchen. He’s mad as hell, and says that all the guys he works with in the construction industry don’t get it–they’re still into flag-waving Bushism. But there’s hope…
neorphius — Clark? Hasn’t moved me, but one never knows. Few would have predicted FDR would become one of our greatest.
DMM — the list of things we’re all tired off could fill 200 blogs — and has.
About Lamont being a ‘fool’s bet’ for Aug/Nov.
Last fall, ‘who could have imagined’ a newcomer forcing Joe into a primary?
Sorry, neurophius. If a Patriot needs to be able to type correctly, I’m the enemy. But then, I’m wearing gloves.
This is my favorite thread of the week, every week.
how many threads go 162 comments-on topic?
OT, but Christy told us her little peanut was not feeling well. Best wishes to Fiona. from those of us in EPU land.
Jane: Thanks for the link. I’m glad you found the review helpful.
Deep in the EPU zone, I’m going to post this link to a diary at DKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/28/12173/8001
“A blockbuster look at the depth of the unfairness in reporting” — diarist Maccabee covering MediaMatters’ Jamie Foser.
Been wracking my brains about what we patriots do from here, besides purging the media economically and winning subpoena power by taking back a majority of Congress…
What are the legal options we as ordinary citizens have to change the dynamics? Can we file a class action lawsuit against the POTUS for his overreach - assuming we can find the right case that readily reflects the damages we’ve suffered? How else do we formally demand our First Amendment right to petition the government for redress of our grievances?
Do we literally set up a state-by-state forum of assembly for the purposes of creating a petition demanding redress?
Rayne 7:05 p.m.
Things were moving a little slowly upstairs, so I came down here to experience the tingling thrills of the EPU zone.
Rayne,state legislatures can initiate presidential impeachment proceedings, and there has been talk of that in Vermont, and maybe California and other states. I don’t have a copy of the Constitution handy (sad to say), but maybe somebody else can fill you in on the details. I don’t think you would get very far with a class action suit against the president, however, unless it was for something like serial sexual harassment–not abuse of official power.
I’m sorry, but I’m not as optimistic as all of you are. In fact at the moment I’m very pessimistic about what’s happenning to our country. I have had a very uneasy feeling for a long time now that if it looks like the Republicans will lose either the House of Senate there will be no elections come November.
Bush and the rest of his gestapo will not give up power. Everything they have done too destroy our Constitution has worked. I have no doubt that we will either be at war in Iran or another attack will take place here. Of course it will be provided by the Fascist Administration in power, but it will enable Bush to suspend the Constitution and stop the electoral process, thereby assurring him retaining power in both the House and Senate.
I feel that as of now we are all living under the illusion of Democracy, but in reality the Constitution has been set aside and hidden from the American people. I wish I felt different, but I have been speaking about this to a lot of people for a long time and they just laugh at me and tell me I’m crazy.
All one has to do is study Hitlers rise to power in Germany to see all the similarities that exists to see what is really happenning here. I’m half German and for a long time been ashamed for not only what Hitler did to Germany and its people, but also ashamed of the German people for allowing it to happen. I believe Glenn mentioned that at one time and he’s right.
I never thought that one day America would be in danger of having a Dictatorship, but looking around me I see it happenning here as it did in Germany. The American people like Bush as the German people liked Hitler. A religious person who started the Christian Youth Movement that in reality turned in their neighbors for harboring Jews in Germany to the Right Wing Nuts being scared of Muslums and reporting them because they think their terrorists.
We have become a Nation Scared of anything and anyone who is different than us. We are so scared of out own shadow that we would turn it in and have it arrested as an Enemy Combatant who would do us harm.
That’s what I see going on now and it does scare me. I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but only time will tell. We don’t have that long to find out if indeed there is any chance to take our country back from these fascists, however we should know by November if he still have elections. If we do and we don’t win the House or Senate than all will be lost unless we have another Revalutionary War to take our country back.
I had to leave just as the discussion was getting started and have been catching up.
nobody at 5:22 pm
“I was quite stunned by Glenn’s admission that he didn’t vote prior to being outraged by the excesses of BushCorp. I have (almost) always voted, but I understand where he’s coming from. In the pre-Bush world, it was easy to think that it didn’t matter all that much who was president, or who controlled congress during any given cycle.”
This is one of the very few places where I find myself strongly disagreeing with Glenn - though I can understand why he might come to think this. And certainly, this difference of opinion does not detract from the great value of Glenn’s book. As I said earlier, I’m doing my best to encourage others to read it.
But I don’t believe our system has ever been ’self correcting’. Quite the opposite. It has always required the active participation of people who care.
I was born and raised in Oklahoma City at a time when the racism was quite blatant there. Civil rights came very slowly and with much difficulty. My father was an extreme racist who used to sit us kids down and read the Bible to us to show us how God didn’t really consider black people human. His church encouraged this thinking. Blacks, dad said, were really just a kind of ’sub human’ put here by God to serve the white man. Twisted? Oh yeah. But just how is 6 year old child supposed to know this? I was quite a bit older before I realized just how sick my father’s world view was.
The systematic oppression of blacks did not correct itself. It took a LOT of very hard work by a LOT of dedicated people. People who cared enough to demand that a corrupt system be changed.
In many ways, the task today is quite similar. It begins with destroying the myth that our system can be left to the politicians. It begins by finding people who care enough to demand that a corrupt system be changed.
Ed N Sted 7:23 p.m.
“I was born and raised in Oklahoma City at a time when the racism was quite blatant there.”
So was I.
My copy didn’t arrive until yesterday since, cheap as usual, I went Amazon’s Super Saver Shipping option. Worse, I filled out the required minimum with The Godfather Part II, further cutting my reading time despite good intentions to the contrary. As a result, I’m only up to page 86. But then Jane announced that our discussion was on the first half, not the whole book, so it turns out I did my homework after all. Don’t you love it when that happens?
First, I really enjoyed the package. The design, the length, the paperback format, and, once I started reading, the extreme timeliness of the text, all had the flavor and excitement of a classic political pamplet.
I was surprised to learn that Glenn Greenwald was so apolitical. Now that I think of it, his blog has never given me reason to think otherwise, but I filled in the blanks differently.
One thing I noticed is that Glenn’s very careful to keep his argument non-partisan. Or rather, the first ring of his argument is that it is non-partisan, and not liberal. Whenever he needs to quote someone to make a point, he prefers to cite a conservative. Also, when demonstrating historically how unsupervised surveillance tends to be abused, he emphasizes abuses by Democrats, such as the persecution of Martin Luther King, Jr. He always describes Bush as “radical”, “extremist”, and other politically neutral terms, explicitly stating that Bush is no more a conservative than a liberal, but instead a violator of a universal American paradigm. More subtly, he always characterizes Bush’s authoritarianism in terms of monarchy, avoiding more contemporary, politically charged terms like “fascist.” The general effect is to position the NSA scandal, and related “War on Terror” abuses like the Hamdi and Padilla cases and the use of torture, as a unique emergency, and not part of any larger political trend. This gives his argument maximum effectiveness, and the broadest possible appeal.
I tend to disagree, at least to the extent of perceiving Bush’s actions as a continuation of similar policies under a whole series of Republican presidents, namely Nixon, Reagan, and Bush Sr. I also think these policies represent at least one school of conservatism, even if other conservatives are opposed. In any event, Republicans haven’t exactly led a national charge against Bush’s abuses. Let’s hope Glenn gives them the moral and intellectual ammunition to do so, or gives the public the ammunition to replace them if they don’t.
Anyway, a great book. I expect I’ll finish it tonight.
neurophius (167) — I’ve been following the state efforts at impeachment, but the states have not made the kind of traction we need; this really needs to get on the map before the election, to keep the administration’s back to the wall until we can muster subpoena power. Vermont seemed like the one best hope, being small and much more progressive than the other states looking at impeachment; if they can’t do it, I don’t know that any state will.
There must be some other form of petition for redress besides impeachment or censure via Congress; there must be some way for citizens to petition directly, for themselves, for redress. In the case of the 750 signing statements, this is not an abuse of powers that are inherently that of the executive; it’s a fundamental taking of powers that are simply not endowed upon the office of the presidency, and the presidency operates at the will of the people.
Anybody got ConLaw background? I suspect I’m asking for something that’s never been done…but what would a patriot do, given violations of citizens’ rights on an unprecedented scale?
Just finished HWPA.
I felt reassured seeing that someone has finally put our fear of American fascism into perspective - in relation to the Constitution.
I’ve been carrying this fear around for some time.
When I saw what BushCo was willing to do to win in 2000 and how the stage had been so carefully set for the takeover, I could sense we were in for a heavy dose of fascism.
My wife and I marched in downtown Seattle, protesting Bush’s inauguration in January of 2000.
My sign: BUSH STOLE IT - SUPREME COURT CORRUPTED - TREASON!
It was raining but the sidewalks were full of shoppers and tourists many of whom showed support for the demonstration (about 2,000 strong)but there were a few hecklers and we were videotaped by the police.
I’m 65 and the last time I had been in the streets it was about Vietnam.
Many of us saw through the fascist takeover from the beginning.
It’s been frightening watching America buy into the fascist dream world.
Greenwald shows us where the fear comes from.
Pachacutec @ 3:19 pm (#45) - These are the same people who misuse the term “politically correct”. You really can’t expect them to actually use english correctly.
Jane,
Came late to this party, but thanks for the review.
I was trying to list out the crimes Bush has either committed or abetted in his administration by not investigating them or stopping them for a post about David “Scroder” Broder at the WaPo blog. I came up with four - that’s four laws, not four counts, of which there are hundreds in some cases. Plus, there are all the separation of powers and Bill Of Rights issues that don’t quite merit the term “crimes”, but are certainly an abuse of power egregious enough to merit some sort of congressional sanction. And yet, nothing has happened.
Like rwcole, scarecrow, and others, I have little hope that a Democratic Congress is going to change things. Actually, I have no hope of that at all as things stand now.
I’m going to find a copy of Glenn’s book and read it, then ask my Senators and Congressman just what they learned from their copies. My guess is they learned that the book doesn’t taste very good or burn well, but I’m hoping to be surprised.
Another thought about HWPA:
As Greenwald shows, Professor John Yoo of Boalt Law School, UC Berkeley, provided legal cover for the BushCo power grab with his concept of the “Unitary Presidency”.
I’d like to see John Yoo’s ideas exposed a bit more.
He’s teaching Constitutional Law but his message seems to be that the Constitution can be massaged into whatever you want it to be.
No doubt he’s a smart guy but how does Boalt see Yoo as an asset to their faculty?
I hear there are many within this mal-administration clicking their heels together and giving an exagerated Nazi style salute as they loudly state that ,’ the shit in America is up to HERE!’
Hope the kids better soon C - roll on single payer eh.
justintime at 8:17 pm
“Greenwald shows us where the fear comes from.”
I know that this topic is covered in the second half of the book and I didn’t want to ‘jump ahead’ but since you and DMM have broached the subject and Jane has not objected, I’ll toss my two cents in.
I’ve always believed that one of the keys to rendering the Bush administration impotent is to confront their fear mongering head on. Fear is perhaps that world’s most powerful marketing tool. I can argue with logic and reason all day long and have no impact, but if I can make you fear, then I can get you to buy whatever it is I’m selling - from the right deodorant to fences for Mexicans to a total dismantling of our constitution.
So what I’d love to see from the blogosphere is some serious head banging (hint, hint to those of you attending YKOS) to come up with a host of ways that we could begin to address the fear Bush uses to sell his agenda. We simply cannot wait for the mainstream Democrats to lead on this issue — they have not, they cannot, they will not — primarily because they have bought into the fear Bush sells with every committee and floor vote they have cast.
I’ve frequently pointed out that since 2001, roughly 3,000 people in the US have been killed by terrorists. In that same 5-year period, roughly 200,000 Americans have been killed in auto accidents on our highways - the vast majority of which are preventable. Yet no one seriously proposes a “war on accidents” or suggests dismantling our constitution to reduce highway deaths. No one proposes a moratorium on driving until we can prevent those deaths. No one panics because another 40,000 will die this year. In terms of relative risk, you are far more likely to die in your automobile than you are from a terrorist attack.
But I’m not sure that explaining relative risk to people is the best way to proceed. I’d like to hear ideas from others on this.
rwcole said…
Those who won’t fight for their country when all that is required is a trip to the ballot box are pretty unlikely to pick up arms and endanger their lives against tanks and automatic weapons.
No- if this isnt stopped in the next couple of election cycles- it wont be stopped at all.
Well then it won’t be stopped at all. Let’s be realistic here - how many Ned Lemonts are there out there? If every single American eligible to vote did so how many Lemont’s would be elected? Why is it that the DLC is not supporting truly progressive candidates? Why is it that Hillary will be the nominee instead of Feingold? Why is Hillary now in bed with the likes of Murdoch? Not only is the counting of the vote a sham but even if it were totally on the up and up it wouldn’t matter. For all you Democrats out there that have been paying attention I have no idea how you could possibly conclude that the current or near future crop of Dems will be in any way significantly different than the Cons.
Having said all of that a “violent” call to arms is not necessary. Gandhi and MLK were fairly effective with their campaigns. Not that I personally would mind a violent call to arms - I am more than ready and willing to attempt kick some ass. Either way, direct action will need to be taken if we want our country back. If you doubt that then you haven’t been paying attention.
As for Glenn’s book… I am a frequent commenter at his site and although I do not think he would feel or even necessarily want his book to be a “call to arms” that is what it is for me. Given the current situation I am not sure how it can be interpreted in any other way. Another commenter there has started a direct action site. Check it out. Link below.
http://daywithoutapatriot.blogspot.com/
ender (179) — I believe it’s a call to action, even though Glenn never really requests more than consideration of the issues.
Glenn’s observations about our patriot founders were tantamount to a “call to arms”; our founders risked life and limb as freedom fighters, prepared to forfeit all to defend their liberties. (p. 97-98)
How could we do any less?
The facts themselves should serve as a pretty strong call to arms. Glenn didn’t need to go out of his way to rally anybody. The facts are bad enough.
We discussed this at Good Nonsense here and here.
Ed N Sted @ 10:41,
You can’t have a “War on Terror” if no one is afraid.
Did Glenn use David Corn’s “The Lies and Deceptions of George W Bush” as source?
www.davidcorn.com" rel="nofollow"> www.davidcorn.com
www.davidcorn.com
FWIW, the anecdote about people wearing Stars of David to protect Jews during WW2 (on page 99) is false. I know I’m nitpicking, the book was great and I don’t deny the Holocaust happened, but I’m a history teacher.
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/denmark.htm
It’s unfortunate that a book so full of facts to back up the errant ways of our country has this urban legend in it.