
It’s amusing, frankly, that the Republicans have suddenly awoken to the dangers of a Chief Executive who has decided that he is a law unto himself. Suddenly, all that rubber stamping for the Imperial Presidency has lost some luster — at least for the Republican leadership if not the whole of the the GOP rank and file. From Dana Milbank at the WaPo:
The radicalization of Denny Hastert has been a marvel to behold after years in which Bush has urged him to stay on the job because of his fierce loyalty to the White House. First, Hastert groused about the Dubai port deal. Then, he criticized the administration’s ouster of CIA chief Porter Goss. Now, his fury about the office search has come like a nor’easter merging with the tropical depression congressional Republicans already find themselves in — and it’s getting stormy on the Hill.
House Republicans huddled over Twinkies, chips and soft drinks for nearly two hours last evening about the constitutional impasse, even after Bush tried to defuse the conflict by sealing the seized files for 45 days. The House Judiciary Committee chairman, James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), announced that he would hold a hearing titled "Reckless Justice: Did the Saturday Night Raid of Congress Trample the Constitution?"
"Every two years, I stand in the well of the House and raise my right hand and swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States," a high-minded John Boehner (R-Ohio), the House majority leader, told reporters.
"We need to protect the division of powers in the Constitution of the United States," the speaker himself said — over and over again.
Suddenly, all the issues that seemed so pressing a few days earlier — war spending, immigration, gas prices — were on the back burner. Emerging from the meeting of House Republicans, GOP spokesman Sean Spicer said members were willing to come out and talk about oil drilling; not a single journalist accepted the offer.
The newfound passion for congressional prerogatives has amused Democrats, who have complained for years about what they say is the administration’s contempt for congressional authority. The White House has stiffed requests from Congress on such key issues as probes of Hurricane Katrina to the eavesdropping programs at the National Security Agency.
Whether it is fear of their own offices being searched next — or this was a wake-up call as to the repurcussions of allowing the boy king to always get his way on our constitutional system of government, I have no idea. But in standing up to the President and the Executive Branch on this, they are correct.
That’s right — don’t choke on your coffee. I said that they were correct — even though they are standing up for the rights of a Congressman who allegedly accepted a bribe (caught on tape) and then stuffed the bulk of the cash in his freezer. And you know why this is? Because the law applies to everyone. Period.
Oh, and a note to Bushie: pissing off Sensenbrenner by going back on your word and making him look like a patsy on the immigration issue? Not the smartest thing you’ve ever done. He’s got a big ego, and a very big power chair in the House — and you can ask Bill Clinton about this one — he’s more than eager to use his seat to make your life as miserable as he possibly can.
The separation of powers question comes in because the FBI entered Jefferson’s office — in a Congressional office building — at a time when Congress was in session to conduct the investigation.
Absent some extraordinary showing of that sort, an executive branch investigative agency would not have the authority to do this sort of search on Legislative branch property. It has never, in the history of the Congress, been done before. It’s really unprecedented — that’s why I’m wondering if there was an extraordinary show of cause in the warrant as to why this needed to be done, because I can’t think of any other valid reason for a federal judge to grant them access under the "speech and debate" protections that usually are in place.
And I do wonder why it took the FBI months and months after allegedly finding all this cold, hard cash in Rep. Jefferson’s freezer before they decided to search his office — at a time when GOP corruption stories were all over the news.
I mean, honestly, the timing is a little weird and I wonder what they needed from the Congressional office that they didn’t already have with their videotape of Jefferson allegedly accepting a bribe, the videotape of him allegedly removing said money from the back of the briber’s car and taking it to his own and then the alleged finding of the cash in his freezer. Why raid his Congressional office when you have a case that seems pretty darn solid? There are investigative reasons to do so — but it was a truly unprecedented move, and one that ought to have required very extraordinary circumstances before it was executed.
I suppose my confusion arises from the fact that Duke Cunningham, former representative from California who has now plead guilty to bribery charges, wrote out a "bribe menu" on his Congressional office stationary…and they didn’t search his office. And Tom DeLay has been running a virtual KStreet ATM machine for the GOP out of his office…and it hasn’t been raided. Or the fact that Bob Ney’s office has remained intact. Or…well, you get the picture.
And because this is the Bush Administration, you can color me slightly suspicious about the timing and the motivation on this — even as I sit here thinking that Rep. Jefferson ought to consider resigning. Now.
Either way, though, the Speaker and the Minority leader, as well as the Senate leadership are absolutely correct in standing firm on their "speech and debate" rights to no searches. This was put into place to prevent the sorts of abuses of the King going into the houses and/or offices of his political enemies to gin up a case against them (sound like any Administration we know?) — and they are absolutely correct to fight any weakening of this protection tooth and nail.
I’d do the same thing.
This area of Con Law wasn’t my specialty — so anyone who has worked on the Hill with Judiciary or otherwise who has done work on this area please feel free to chime in — but I think I’m remembering my American history correctly on just why this was specifically set up as a protection for Legislators.
And given the erosion of the Constitution under the Bush Presidency, I have to say that it’s about damn time they took a firm stand on something — anything — without making their jobs wholly obsolete.
Digby has some more thoughts on this which, as always, are well worth the read.
Related posts:
- Breaking: William Jefferson Convicted in Bribery Case
- Why Does Lynn Woolsey Want Congress to Go on Vacation?
- Zelikow to Durbin: How the Bush Administration Gamed the Briefing Process
- What Pelosi, Rockefeller & Harman Could Have Done
- What did Jefferson tell us to do if an opposing faction decides to “refresh the tree of liberty” with blood?





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FITZ!
fitz
FROOTZ! OK – now that I’ve read the article… I have a certain bitter laughter that THIS is what finally gets the Congress’ panties in a twist… but I’ve had a lot of that lately…
gotta go to work.
The House Judiciary Committee chairman, James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), announced that he would hold a hearing titled “Reckless Justice: Did the Saturday Night Raid of Congress Trample the Constitution?”
What did you expect from a president who opined that the constitution “is just a
God damned piece of paper”???
MORNIN Redd. Great piece- thanks- and needed- no one else seems to want to say what you said.
The Rubber-stamp Republicans created this unitary Frankenstein’s monster, and now they’re shocked, shocked, I tell you to find that they forgot to include an “off” switch.
I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored. Or, in Hastert’s case, whose big fat ass is being gored. You can probably hear the sound of Congressional hard drives being scrubbed all the way from Rehoboth Beach…..
I am shocked, SHOCKED! that Denny was huddled over twinkies for two hours.
I would have bet at least double that.
Meanwhile, Tweety went on about how Bush was “a little Lincoln” last night, which made me sick until I realized I could turn the tables and make Old Abe a “little Bush”
One thing it does (the raid): it gets the case a lot more airtime, providing a whole ‘nother side issue to keep it in the foreground. It’s not about how many cases on both sides of the aisle, it’s about how much media space do they occupy. One Dem case that occupies a large amount of media space is equal to 15 GOP cases that occupy, collectively, the same amount. See? Both sides do it!
Jefferson should bloody well resign, and should have done so before this happened.
While traveling today I’ll be reading Glenn Greenwald’s book. Didn’t we used to have a tripartite system?
The law is how we mutually agree to live with each other. Shredding the law means destroying that social contract. Then it’s just back to raw power, warlords.
What do we want military folks and government employees to do, obey the law or do what the King says? People are getting conflicting orders.
My proposed campaign platform revolves around our mutual agreements:
Domestic policy: the Constitution
Foreign policy: Geneva Conventions
Are they really concerned about the separation of powers? Or is this just a tricky way to keep a fallen democrat in the news for long enough to convince the public that corruptioin is just as prevalent on the other side of the aisle?
I bring you Hastert in his element through the magic of Photoshop!
EPU’d from last night:
Does the GOP seek to escape from the scandals that are legion by turning the whole government into a constitutional food fight? I’m hoping Principal Fitzgerald is watching the cafeteria exits.
Politically, the Dems should wash their hands of Jefferson. Claim he has the right to a fair trial, etc, but relieve him of his assignments in the interim. Disappointed in the CBC, perhaps Pelosi should have done a better job of reach out / briefing ahead of time.
Can they change caucus rules to relieve Jefferson of committee assignments? (Opposite of the Delay Rule, and wrt committee asssigments instead of leadership positions)?
Inquiring minds…
I think this is a put-up. I think that the White House expected (or asked for) this reaction. Think about it: how much material is there in the offices of (12 ) Congress members implicated in the Abramoff scandal, in the (12 ) offices of Congress members implicated in the Cunningham scandal, in the (x?) offices of Congress members involved in either the NSA spying scandal (the few who were notified) and any as-yet undiscovered scandal(s)? Much of that content could lead right back to the White House, including emails that must have been sent to/from the White House and the Bush/Cheney’04 campaign. This was a pre-emptive move to keep anybody from digging around, gives Republican Congress members (and the White House) a safe harbor for their illicit doings (like day-trading on pending legislation).
The bonus is the use of a dirty Democrat for this purpose; they can now work on seating a Repug in his seat once he finally is coerced into leaving.
Never underestimate how criminal this administration is; they’ve already decimated nearly every government agency, spent billions on their own profiteering. And they won’t give up without a fight.
GW Clusterfuck went on teevee with the poodle last night and said that he had made a mistake to tell the insurgents in Iraq to “bring it on”. HE said that the remark was misunderstood in some parts of the world.
Let’s think about this for a minute- SOME parts of the world? How bout HERE? And just how was the remark misunderstood? I interpreted the remark to mean “If you want to attack american troops- we welcome the attacks- cause we’re gonna kick your asses.”
Just what OTHER way is there to understand the comment? Anyone? How do you misunderstand “bring it on”?
EPU’d and OT-
TRex,
Have you ever listend to Sean Insanitty’s radio show?
I find it amusing that one of his musical lead-ins is Carmina Burana by the German Carl Orff.
Carmina Burana’s full title translated in English is this, “Songs of Beuern: Secular songs for singers and choruses to be sung together with instruments and magic images”.
It was composed in the mid 30’s and was one of the most popular songs composed in Nazi Germany.
The brain damage sustained from cognitive dissonance when his church goin’ everyman schtick pipes up and the beautiful music fades is irreparable.
Isn’t there a police force employed by the House, or a Sargeant-at-Arms who could have served the warrant and retrieved the evidence? Seems rather indelicate to invade the Congress’ turf. Do I wonder if AG Gonzales was making some kind of statement with these actions? “No one and nowhere is beyond the reach of His Unitariness. Now shut up and vote like you’re told.”
Don’t be deceived. This is going to turn out to be another classic con-job.
The Bush administration is insulating itself from future Congressional subpoenas (after the midterm elections), by raising the “separation of powers” issue through this ploy.
I predict they will back down, let Jefferson off the hook, and then use the same arguments back to Congressional Democrats when they start to subpoena Bush administration officials and documents to investigate the bullcrap they have been up to for the past 5 years.
And letting Jefferson off the hook is a brilliant move, in itself. Oh no! A black congressman is a thief and nobody can or will do anything about it! All those people talking about “rights.” Grrrr… Damn those Democrats.
The Jefferson thing becomes extended and aggravated in the media as a result. The Culture of Corruption meme gets turned topsy-turvy, with Jefferson as the poster-child for corruption, not Abramoff or Delay. We might Expect some Willie Horton-type ads with Jefferson’s picture.
It would look less phony if they would defend all parts of the Constitution and not only the part that protects Hastert from getting caught with his pants down with Jack Abramoff!
Exactemente, my flying elephant friend…
The fact that Congressman Jefferson is so obviously (to even a casual observer) corrupt is NOT the reason for the search.
Jefferson’s obvious corruption was merely a lubricant. As mentioned in the post, dozens of other Congressman had equal amounts of obviousness in their corruption, Cunningham being perhaps the best example.
But Cunningham et al were WHITE and REPUBLICAN. Therefore they are not subject to unprecedented Executive branch intrusion into Congress.
By targeting a Black Democrat, Bush Jr. et al probably figured that their Republican Congressional pals wouldn’t recognize the stink of tyranny in their offices.
Bad luck, though: Republican Congressmen supported Bush Jr. for their own interest and power, not his.
And Bush Jr. has now openly declared aggression against his own minions.
Is it time for a new baronial revolt, a Beltway Magna Charta?
I love the republican’s full steam ahead attitude when everyone’s rights are attacked because they don’t affect them personally. They feel that they are insulated from anything that ordinary people are subject to. Now when it suits the WH’s purpose to turn on one of their own, those like Hastert get all uppity over their rights being assulted.
Every single person in the world is ultimately a tool to the Bush administration if and when the need arises.
Christy, it may be the first time a Congressional office has been searched like this, but it’s certainly not the first time the Executive Branch has executed search warrants on the offices of another branch. I can think of a time when I lived in Chicago where a big investigation of judges came down hard. One of them screamed about separation of powers, but it went nowhere.
I don’t recall where I read it (the Post?) but i read that the judge who signed this warrant penned an additional note on it to the Capitol Police. Obviously the judge recognizes that this isn’t business as usual, but the judge also could see what the FBI had already and approved the warrant.
(I can’t believe I’m defending the Bush Admin on this . . . )
As for what they were looking for, well, if you’re bribing someone who has only one of 435 votes on something, chances are you’ll need more than just that one fella to get what you want. Either there’s more bribe money being tossed around, or the briber has confidence that the one rep will have the clout to bring some others along. Jefferson is on Ways & Means, but he still isn’t what I’d call a big fish in the pond of Congress. I’m betting that they’re looking for more on other folks.
Which brings me to Delay, Ney, and Co. IIRC, they have cooperated in the various Abramoff investigations (at least to this point). A marked contrast to Jefferson. If they haven’t cooperated, and there’s probably cause to believe that there is evidence in those offices, then bring it to the judge, get the damn warrants, and go get it. Bring along the Capitol Police, to make sure no congressional perogatives are messed up, but there has to be a way to search for evidence in a congressional office.
The one time the Bushies get yelled at for illegal search, and it’s the time they actually went and got a warrant from a judge. Talk about irony.
IANAL, and you are, so that makes me humble in pushing this, and I am certainly open to correction. But still, if this reading of the “speech and debate” clause is correct, and if Jefferson did take a bribe, then his error wasn’t in accepting the money, it was in failing to keep it in the FBI-proof freexer at the office!
I assume that the warrant issued to search Jefferson’s office was issued by a Bush appointed rubber-stamp judge. I would expect Abu Gonzales to refuse to cooperate with any Congressional investigation on the grounds of protecting national security under the powers of the Unitary Executive Authority. This will in turn be upheld by more rubber-stamp judges. Game, set match.
What makes the repiglicans such magnificent bastards is their ability to use different outcomes to their advantage.
The administration stands down on Jefferson – Hastert et al. are defenders of the constitution; and corruption and scandal are “bipartisan” — Jefferson keeps doing his Adam Clayton Powell strut, out on the street due to a “technicality”
The administration prevails – joonyah’s g-men take on corrupt congressman, and corruption and scandal are “bipartisan” and you don’t need any latin (e.g. quid pro quo, etc) to understand $90k in a freezer. Talk about cold cash (ba dum bum).
Good Morning Everyone
Christy, thanks for this post – was gonna go O/T and ask about it in Late NIte – but the kids were having so much fun thought I might ask you today
Although I’ve been coming here for a while now – I still count the blessings of this informed community -
*ilson invoked the principle of the Speech & Debate clause immediately
rwcole – you are looking like Sybil the Soothe Sayer more and more everyday – you made a comment when GWCF was sliding from 38% laying out how things would go as his numbers dropped and a ’suddenly emboldened Congress’ was right there btw 33 & 30 % – good God -It may sound sensible to everyone now, but at the time of your comment, many of us commented on how ‘blue sky’ it all sounded
don’t mean to embarass you guys, but I’m a half full kinda gal and credit where credit is due . . .
Christy thank you for clarifying what is at stake here – could not get my brain wrapped around it yesterday and your post clears it up and erases the ambient noise quite nicely
And being able to produce a corrupt politician on demand from Louisiana is about as hard as finding flies on dogshit.
I am sure DOJ weighed the constitutional pros and cons but just couldnt resist in that Jefferson is a democrat and black and of course the fact that all that cash was tucked in his freezer. They know thats what people will remember once the dust settles.
Morning, Christy – hope everyone at your house is on the mend; just keep telling your husband that the early childhood years are an immunity-building experience that he will – eventually – be all the better for. He may not buy it, but that’s the “lemonade” you make from this particular batch of lemons. *g*
Anyway, there’s something about this that smells a little funny. Am wondering if the left hand and the right have once again forgotten to check in with each other to see what is going on. Or, in the alternative, if the left hand is sick and tired of being trumped by the right and finally figured out a way to get back.
Is there any possibility that the FBI took the opportunity that the Jefferson investigation presented to deliberately trigger this constitutional free-for-all? Could they be so tired of being involved in things they feel are in violation of the constitution that they decided to do something that would make these people sit up and take notice? Yeah, I know there are any number of Republicans under investigation, who also have offices on the Hill, but I think if it had been one of their offices that had been busted into, the outcry would have likely been more about the FBI trying to get even with the GOP for being marginalized by the great restructuring than about anything as high-minded and principled as a constitutional issue.
But there it is. Separation of powers, front and center. I absolutely agree that the law is supposed to apply to all, but the delicious irony here is that while the GOP is currently only focusing on the immediate breach of constitutional authority, they do not seem to realize that everything they are saying about it is going to come back and smack them in the head like a 2 x 4.
On the other hand, in order to believe the FBI did this knowing what would follow, one would have to believe that they are not the stumbling, bumbling Keystone Kops they’ve been portrayed as being.
Rayne @ #13 and Redd, … you can color me slightly suspicious about the timing and the motivation on this…
I agree. This is all win-win political theater for the GOP prior to the 06 elections with a Republican President at 30% in the polls.
Cry me a river and paint me the victim. All the better to distance me from that nasty Imperial Presidency that I am in no way connected to…
Wasn’t Rove on the Hill twice in the last week on the immigration issue?…and other items one can suspect.
on second thought, bushco always backs away from a court challenge…. until now. let’s put on uncle karl’s magic glasses and take a look at the situation.
president invades halls of congress seeking evidence of a crime. congress resists. case goes to court. administration puts up a weak argument. court finds for congress: no FBI searches of congressional precincts.
fast forward to 2009, with a democratic administration. president (clinton / kerry / gore ) sends FBI to search hastert’s office. speaker pelosi assents to search. hastert objects, cites jefferson v. FBI 2006 precedent.
hastert and GOP win. if bush loses this battle, the GOP wins the war. how very clever of karl to lose this battle and inoculate the GOP against future investigations.
I think it was a twofer for Bush. Highlight the corruption of a Democrat, and put the fear of God in the Republicans for even considering crossing this administration.
I have an issue with this whole thing. I’m sorry, but it is NOT OK for the Congress Criminals (every damn one of them) to have a safe zone (their offices) in which they can hide the evidence and ill gotten gains from their criminality. It is not the right message nor a righteous message to claim that you can stash the bodies in your congressional office and no law enforcement can touch it.
I want EVERY office searched, without warrant. I want them to eat the shit they’ve shoveled on the rest of us (the “little people”). Where was the outrage over warrantless spying on Americans? Where was the outrage of secret searches, gag rules, library records searches, military spying on Quakers, etc? ONLY when the shit smell starts wafting through their “holy” offices do they get their dander up? BULLSHIT!
I am friggin PISSED that they are getting all upset over a search of a CRIMINAL’S office (redhanded, ON VIDEO, taking a goddamned BRIBE!) – via a valid warrant signed by a friggin judge! THEY get the Constitutional treatment with the FBI actually getting a warrant from the Judicial Branch. This wasn’t the Exec run amok…shall we now claim that it is the Exec in cahoots with the “evil” Judicial? Give me a break!
How dare they whine about a search conducted AFTER the FBI, in one of the few times in the last 5 years, actually got a legal, binding, Constitutionally required WARRANT?
I’m glad that another progressive agrees with me on this, Christy. Though what’s bothering me about this has little to do with Jefferson. In his case there was a legitimate warrant, drawn up by a legitimate court. Jefferson also refused (or had been dragging his feet for months) to comply with a court order to produce the documents in question. Sounds like Jefferson had it coming, in other words.
What’s been bothering me is the rhetoric from fellow progressives — Aravosis, for one — who have implied that what the FBI did is a good thing, that “Maybe a little excessive executive branch police power would be a good thing for Republicans and Democrats on the Hill alike to experience,” to quote big John, himself. This kind of rhetoric only plays into the hands of the Bush junta.
If you’ll allow me to don my tin-foil hat for a moment, these types of raids, if allowed to occur in a piece-meal manner, could whip-up public enmity of congress to such a degree that Americans might begin to believe that we don’t need a legislative branch of government. Let’s just have the president rule by imperial fiat, in other words. John should really think twice before popping-off like this. And don’t get me wrong: I love his blog, I just wish he would sometimes take a more measured approach when responding to certain news items.
And then there’s Dumbo’s argument, that creating a precedent preventing more such raids would give the corrupt GOP carte blanche to continue its corrupt ways.
The opacity of the Bush junta makes me think that anything is possible, though I’m inclined to think that Dumbo may be on to something.
Rayne (#13) might have it right: “I think this is a put-up. I think that the White House expected (or asked for) this reaction.”
It draws more attention to a Democrat and, by the happiest coincidence, allows the Justice Department to wander around his office, looking for evidence that would incriminate Jefferson further and also explore his connections with other members of the Congressional Black Caucus and House Democrats.
Now that they have seen what they wanted to see, Hastert kicks up a fuss, George seals the evidence, and the Justice Department pretends to forget what it has seen.
Is there any possibility that the FBI took the opportunity that the Jefferson investigation presented to deliberately trigger this constitutional free-for-all?
In a word? NO. Sorry, the FBI didn’t act all on their own (or on the sole command of Abu Gonzales). They went to the JUDICIAL BRANCH and got a VALID WARRANT. End of story.
No free pass for ANY congress criminal. No safe zones wherein they get to hide their crimes from law enforcement. If THEY get a super secret stash (their office) upon which NO legal authority can lay eyes, then we ALL get one.
The FBI also wants to question a number of Congresspersons regarding the NSA leaks. (Raw Story).
This is George W. Bush we’re dealing with here. The question “What if these powers end up in the wrong hands” is not about the hypothetical future.
This administration has systematicaly tried to weaken the legislative and judicial branches against the unitary executive, and it seems almost certain that they’ll use the present “bipartisan” corruption scandals to attack Congress itself.
DrBB, matthew – you hit the nail on the head. Without this stunt, there would be a finite amount of time the press could dedicate to covering this story before folks would cry foul – there would’ve been a backlash in the black community and Democrats would’ve looked persecuted by the press if this story was drawn out for an unusually long time.
But now…we’ll be lucky to shake this story by ‘08.
Rather Roverian, don’tchathink?
Praedor at 33 — I think if you re-read what I wrote — the reason the warrant may have been potentially lawfully granted is IF Jefferson was thought to be trying to use his office as a loophole to thwart the investigation, to hide evidence there or something like that. You don’t get to cheat — whether you are an elected official or not — in terms of a criminal investigation, and that would have been a good argument in my mind to allow a search. (Which does away with the whole safe in the office thing, Peterr.) I am NOT saying that any member in Congress ought to be exempt from following laws — hello, that would be the opposite of everything I stand for and have said here — but the President and the Executive branch have to follow those laws as well.
Our legal system functions best when there is a robust challenge on BOTH sides of the issue at bar. That Congress is willing to push back for a change, instead of just rolling over, is a good thing in my mind. Maybe they’ll start doing it more often (not holding my breath, but still…)
“I want EVERY office searched, without warrant.”
Instapundit said the same. Our nation is blessed with lots of proto-fascist morons.
Not only that, but if serious discussion of Bush’s expansion of executive power ever comes about in the public arena, the “separation of powers” dialogue will already have been poisoned in the minds of the public. (”Separation of powers? We talked about that last week. It was just some bullshit excuse for criminals to try to get off the hook.”)
Dear FireDogLake:
I put up a post on another link on FDL about this same issue (’sealing the documents’), however, with the exception of one post ahead of mine, the last post prior was about 7 hours earlier…hmmmm…anyway, reading these posts, I think Dumbo, Rayne and myself are definately on the right track: this is about future leverage, ’cause corruption isn’t bipartisan’. On the one hand, I believe Dumbo’s analogy is quite insightful, however, on the other hand, I don’t see people of color conjuring conspiracy out of 90 grand in Jefferson’s freezer (provided of course, there is footage of said retrieval…), but it is possible (both ways…that it IS a set up, and that conspiracy can be conjured…).
Also, another poster asked what’s it about (sealing the records): I think what it’s about is this: when they’re ‘unsealed’, there’s gonna be a whole lot of information there that wasn’t there when they were sealed…
Meanwhile, I’ve been coming to FDL daily for probably 3 weeks now, and find the whole ‘Fitz’ thing amusing. I also go to Stratasphere and, at this point, tend to believe the guy’s last bubble popped.
What would A.J. think, if ALL his posts opened with a trail of “Fitz”, “Fitz”, “Fitz”, etc.? Nah, he’d probably just delete them all…
Have a lovely day FireDogLake…
Sincerely,
Welch
OT but really cute song and cartoon
http://www.atomfilms.com/conte…..mp;preplay
I don’t think Bush is that smart. I do think that there are people in government who resent having been used as the tools by which this administration has carried out clearly illegal and unconstitutional activity.
Who knows? This administration has so abused their power and shown so little respect for any constitutional and legal principles that it’s almost impossible to know who’s doing what, and why.
All I can say is that if this were done with the intent of somehow benefiting the GOP, I hope the 2 x 4 is made of steel and not wood, so that when it hits them in the head, it does the job once and for all.
I hear joonyah’s gonna learn to play the violin…
but the President and the Executive branch have to follow those laws as well.
Any HINT of defending the desire of Congress criminals to keep their crimes hidden makes me see deep, deep red such that it is difficult to think straight. That said, I fail to see where, in this case, the FBI (Exec branch) failed to follow the laws. Criminal Jefferson blew off a subpoena. The FBI went to an entirely separate but co-equal branch of government, the Judicial, and got a signed warrant. Where is the failure to follow the law here by the Exec? The Exec has spit upon the law in most things up to now but THIS time they did it fully within the law. Where’s the violation?
I’m just waiting for the attorney representing either Congress or Jefferson (and you’d better bet Congress will intervene in the Courts) to make the capper argument on why the District Judge should vacate the warrant and return everything seized:
“You’ll rule in favor of us if you want to keep your job.”
It will come down to that. Watch.
Instapundit said the same. Our nation is blessed with lots of proto-fascist morons.
Mine was hyperbole. I said it to highlite the warrantless searches that the Congress is OK about…when it involves the “little people”: US. It’s OK with them, whatever the hell the FBI, military, NSA, CIA, Whitehouse Chef Corps, whatever, wants to do to US but when they get any hint of “the treatment” (In this case with a binding, legal warrant signed off by a judge from the NON-Executive branch, they spit blood. I call BULLSHIT!)
Scribe — funny how GOP Congresspeople are going to have to now deal with some of the lovely folks on the bench that they threatened after the whole Schiavo mess, isn’t it? Yeah, irony abounds in this whole situation…
The warrant is probably warranted (please help me) but as far as execution, something should have been done to address the constitutional concerns (re the executive branch rooting through the drawers of the legislative) Two that come to mind: the FBI could have coordinated with the House Sgt at arms to be present to represent the legislative branch’s interests, or a special master could have been appointed to go through the records to sort out the political (and protected) from the criminal (and germane) fruits of the search.
“Thereupon Charles, followed by three or four hundred armed swordsmen, went down to Westminster, entered the house of commons (which none of his predecessors had ever done), and told the members present that no person had any privileges when charged with treason.”
Godfrey Davies, _The Early Stuarts 1603-1660_, Oxford 1959, p. 123
I figure it has more to do with the Patriot Act, giving BushCo all the authority he needs to order a search… perhaps he told the judge to order it…. who knows. But while CONgress has given everyone over to the BushCo for searches and seizures via that act, I reckon they forgot to include themselves as obsolete.
Let the search stand and let the fighting about Patriot Act begin!!
“Any HINT of defending the desire of Congress criminals to keep their crimes hidden makes me see deep, deep red such that it is difficult to think straight.”
You are NOT thinking straight. The problem is the precedent involved in using the police (executive controlled) against Congress. This is not about Rep. Jefferson.
Will Bush take advantage of this opportunity to attack and weaken the institution of Congress?
How could he not, being the man he is?
I am not defending Jefferson or Hastert. But this kind of thing is worrisome for institutional reasons, the more so because Bush is in power.
In third-world countries they often send the police after the legislature, and total executive dominance is often achieved that way.
When I see the House GOP defy the administration over something that doesn’t have to do with immigration, I’ll give the idea that they’ve reclaimed their authority more credence.
Until they do something against Bush for the good of the nation, I’m an agnostic on this issue.
Thank you, Christie, for bringing some common sense to this issue. The comments in the lefty blogs have mostly been out to lunch. The power to investigate is the power to destroy.
Is Jefferson corrupt? I don’t know. But better a corrupt congressman than one who votes the way the FBI tells him. How did they get a videotape of him? Sounds like a sting operation. There is a fine–or nonexistent–line between a sting and a frame-up. I do not understand why everyone is rushing to condemn Jefferson on the word of the FBI. A government that kidnaps people for rendition is perfectly capable of framing a congressman. But even if Jefferson really is as corrupt as everyone alleges, you don’t go searching congressional offices.
You are right about the timing issue. This is all to make the “culture of corruption” a bipartisan issue.
I keep wondering if this 45 day cooling off period by Bush is really more of a 45 day hostage period for Hastert to back down from his majority majority position (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/22/AR2006052201516.html) and deliver an immigration bill for Bush’ legacy prior to the fall elections. Consider the likelihood that his office has incriminating documents as the Wapo article today states:
“As was reported last year, Hastert was among four House Republican leaders who signed a 2003 letter to then-Interior Secretary Gale A. Norton in an effort to block an Indian casino opposed by tribes represented by Abramoff. Shortly before the letter was sent, Abramoff hosted a fundraiser for Hastert’s political action committee. In January, the speaker said he would give to charity the donations, estimated at $69,000, that he received from Abramoff and Abramoff’s clients.”
Bush has the authority to return the documents today, yet rather than do that he proposed this “cooling off period” which just happens to coincide with the July 10 date that the Senate reconvenes possibly to work out a compromise bill (or not)on immigration. Given the importance of the immigration bill to his legacy, party, midterm election platform, Florida vote, why did the Decider use a cooling off period at all? The coincidence that the cooling off period coincides with the period during which the senate and house work on reconciling their immigration bills seems important and suggests that the Decider may be telling Hastert either deliver an immigration bill for me to sign or face investigation, including uprooting your office for incriminating documents, and unleashing the prosecutors on to your doorstep. The additional benefits folks here have described (such as in 10 or 18) is just icing on this particular cake. Isn’t blackmail a particular strength of the Shrubs?
Are we sure that the Bush junta hasn’t already done some warrantless sneak-and-peek searches of Congressional offices? They bypassed FISA using their Unitary Executive Authority on the grounds that FISA would never approve of the NSA domestic spying program. Obviously FISA would never permit searching of Congressional offices either but that still wouldn’t stop the Bushies. Does anyone else remember the burglaries at Kerry campaign offices during 2004? Unitary Executive Authority is the wild card that trumps everything, it’s even better than Catch 22.
Christy, the biggest questions you raise in your post, IMHO, are “Why raid his Congressional office when you have a case that seems pretty darn solid?” and “why it took the FBI months and months after allegedly finding all this cold, hard cash in Rep. Jefferson’s freezer before they decided to search his office”.
The feds have a case against Jefferson, and the folks who handed him the money. Given the unprecedented nature of this, I think they must be after other, bigger fish. Yeah, he’s on video, but what if there is something there that leads the fed – and a federal judge – to believe there are other folks involved, and that the evidence of this is on Capitol Hill? I can’t come up with anything else. If Jefferson was the top person they were after, the video would have been enough. Bring in the media’s cameras, do the perp walk, and get the FBI’s bright shining faces on TV. No, they want something – someone – else. Bad. (Fitz-like bad, even.)
And your second question – why take months to go after whatever they think is in the office? My hunch here is that it was like the guidelines for going after a reporter’s notes. Before a judge will sign off on that, you are supposed to have exhausted every other possible means of getting the information that you are looking for. (Not that this is always done, mind you, but them’s the rules.) The FBI tried asking politely, then finally went to the judge and said, “Here’s what we’ve got; here’s what we think is in the office; and here’s why we think it’s there.”
I find it hard to believe that a judge – even a hardcore conservative – would sign off on a warrant like this without a lot of careful consideration. “Today, it’s a congressional office, but tomorrow it might be mine . . .”
Two that come to mind: the FBI could have coordinated with the House Sgt at arms to be present to represent the legislative branch’s interests, or a special master could have been appointed to go through the records to sort out the political (and protected) from the criminal (and germane) fruits of the search.
Now THAT I can get behind. They got a warrant, they get to search. The office of a congress creature is NOT hallowed ground immune to law. That is the sort of crap the Criminal in Chief in the Whitehouse would claim.
Get a judge to require the return of ALL the documents, under seal. Then handle it as described by knuckledragger. The separation of powers is protected but they congress criminals are still subjected to the rule of law. Same law as the rest of us.
A couple of cents: First, what cbl (26) said. Ditto all of it.
Second, egregious (9) nails the platform with “Domestic policy: the Constitution; Foreign policy: Geneva Conventions”.
Third, a wish that video will surface and get wide play showing what Richard Wolfe of Newsweek described so chillingly on Olbermann’s Countdown last night: Right after Shrub’s pseudo-sincere expression of regret, complete with a “choreographed” look heavenward, he looked down at the front row of assembled journalists and flashed them his toothiest, cocky-jock, “Heh-heh, Good actin, huh?” grin ever. I have to think that even some of Bush’s backwash base would be creeped out by such a vulgar display.
Denny Hastert, “huddled over Twinkies, chips and soft drinks…”, is an image I could have done without. Hastert is full of Twinkies. I propose he forever be refered to as Denny “Twinkie” Hastert.
On a lighter note, if you start to see Bush and Congress as one big criminal enterprise (I’m thinkin’ “black-ops” contract graft) then their public behavior begins to make more sense. The Dems can’t really take a stand because they and the Repugs are all (with few notable exceptions) corrupt and the “Boss” has the goods on them all. I’m having a hard time getting the tin foil off my head, but when I do I would have to agree with Dumbo at #18. Nobody can do creepy, twisted, evil politics like this
“Administration”. I would relish jail for these sacks of sh*t, but surely there must be a Hell worthy of their residence.
I think Bush is really pissed that his congress-critters are acting uppity and at some meeting, using many Goddamns and fucking this and thats, let it be known that the psychopath-king would like a lesson sent to his minions.
Since the House Repub leadership are all felons, an FBI raid on a House office should put the fear of GWB in them. This little ploy may have backfired. Bring on the popcorn.
well said, john emerson. . .(#51)
Morning all, the Senate confirmed Hayden ;(
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Poli…..id=2007944
I’m skeptical that this is anything other than a well-timed political maneuver to try and knock apart the “culture of corruption” frame for the upcoming campaigns.
Look at all it accomplishes: puts a Democratic face on political corruption with the added advantage of Jefferson being from New Orleans and a black man to boot. Some percentage of folks will be happy to lean into the inference that New Orleans was a political snakepit before Katrina, somehow justifying or at least partly negating BushCo failures in that catastrophe a bit.
Putting Jefferson on the front burner is a two-fer, at least.
And what fraction of the public will follow all of this with a tenth of the attention to detail, adherence to principles and healthy skepticism on display in this thread?
I shudder to think.
Oh well, off to my own food fight over project overruns…
I am waiting for Bush to send the 82nd Airborne into D.C. in order to shut down the “out of control” congress. Wonder what Hastert and Boner will do then?
Also, OT:
Looks like the selling power of Mary Cheney is anemic indeed. Her book sales as of yesterday, courtesy Andrew Sullivan:
“25 May 2006 04:49 pm
She got a reported $1 million advance. She has had a blitzkrieg of publicity. And according to Bookscan’s data yesterday, she sold a total of 1,633 books last week. Her year-to-date sales are 4,091.”
-GSD
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I just don’t see this as biting Democrats. With the exception of the Congressional Black Caucus, I don’t hear anyone going to any lengths to defend a congressman who appears to have been caught red-handed. The message from the Dems has been, “we don’t need – or want- people to identify us as tolerating and overlooking activity that looks criminal.”
By making this a constitutional argument, there is no way they can avoid having to answer questions about where they were on the constitution as this president and this administration used it to trample on the rights of all Americans, to broaden their power and to justify immoral and illegal activity. What’s their answer? “That’s different?”
The horror here is that it took a possible breach of their own privacy rights to make them sit up and pay attention. No one who has been upset about this president and this administration ever wanted anything more than what we thought we were all guaranteed. Any breach that directly affects the rights of members of Congress is but a continuation and extension of activity that has been allowed to happen on their watch. That they may have paved the way for this to happen to themselves doesn’t mean we should allow it to happen, but action on this particular breach is not going to stand if it is not followed by serious and principled action on ALL the constituional issues that are on the table.
Fedlawyerdog #55:
Thanks for bringing to light those “coincidences”. It’ll be very interesting to watch what happens to the House immigration bill going forward. Even if such a stratagem wasn’t part of the original plan, Rove’s still pretty adaptable when it comes to leveraging circumstances.
“Create chaos, and then swim through it.”
Sounds right.
Con Law–I sense a pregnant turn of phrase.
GSD,
If joonyah sends in the 82nd, he might find a brigade headed the wrong way down Pennsylvania Avenue. A lot of those guys have had more than one rotation through Mess o’potamia.
Redd
It is not often I disagree with you on the law, but I gotta today.
The Speech and Debate Clause was originally intended to prevent arrests for actions within hte well of the chamber. I know it has been extended by case law to include alllegitiamte legislative activities (I did a brief on legislative priviledge about a year/18 mos ago and still remember a couple of things)however, the clause itself has specific exceptions, including for FELONIES.
Based upon the really spot on “Cold Hard Cash” post you had a few days back, I am confident you agree that a $100,000 would qualify as felony in any jurisdiction. Not only that, but they actually went and got a feakin’ warrant!! JeeWiz, followed the law.
This is not a speration of powers issue and Hastert is either blowing smoke or as someone upthread said “it’s about who’s ox is being gored”
I personally think this is yet another bright shiny object meant to distract from the Safavian trial by focusing everyone one the brite shiny corrupt democrat over here.
That’s why Hastert is stroking over the ABC report that he is a subject/target and calling that payback.
Hastert shoots the Jefferson thing to the front page for several news cycles by manufacturing a “constitutional crisis”, so ABC points out how much that could hurt is Hastert gets to sit on that front page with Jefferson (ABC must know about the “chicgo way” too!)
I’ll tell you what IS A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS, is the WH interfering with a Justice Department criminal investigation. WTF is that?
The Solicitor General is not an authoized holder of GJ material. I think this MIGHT be (though I have no time to research it today) a Rule 6e violation and a freakin felony of it’s own.
I have no memeory of ANY similar action by a WH with respect to a GJ investigation. This trounces on the judicary and totally steps on the quasi independant status of DOJ.
I am stunned by this. Q: Can anybody think of a rpior similar event in US history? I really want to read up on this, but can’t think of where to even start.
I do not understand why everyone is rushing to condemn Jefferson on the word of the FBI.
There are a few things that are beyond reasonable question: Properly obtained DNA evidence is incontrovertable. Clear videotape, untampered with, is incontrovertable.
Jefferson HAS allowed the GOP to slap the Dems with the slop of corruption now. Before it WAS entirely a GOP problem. Now, thanks to Jefferson, a corrupt politico from a state that has “enjoyed” a LONG line of very corrupt politicos (I used to live in Louisiana), got caught red-handed, on tape, taking a bribe. No one twisted his arm, sting or no sting. NO ONE forces you to commit a crime, you ALWAYS elect to commit it. Consciously. He was later nailed with most of that bribe money stashed in the place and in a manner we ALL keep our cash (that’s sarcasm): in the friggin’ freezer wrapped in foil. He blows off a valid, legal subpoena. Warrant and search insues. Makes sense to me.
Pelosi asks, rightly, for him to resign his post but he refuses. HIS career and personal desires are FAR more important than the good of the party or the country. He wants his, screw the big picture (very GOP of him). Because of this, the GOP can now get some traction on the whole “it’s bipartisan” crap about corruption. Before it was purely a GOP stench but Jeffy fixed that. The runny crap has been spattered over all of them.
Kiss the “Culture of Corruption” meme goodbye, as it was applied to the GOP. It can now be applied to ALL of them, nullifying the advantage it gave the Dems.
Well played Jeffy.
Praedor,
I moved to Baton Rouge in 1983 to start grad school at LSU. We’d been in town about a week, and my wife and I watched the local news one evening, including a brief interview with Edwin Edwards concerning his candidacy for governor. Asked about his chances in the race, his lips drew into a faint grin, “the only way I can lose this race is to be caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl.” He got 77% of the vote.
Producing Jefferson at this time is like Bullwinkle pulling the rhinocerous out of his hat. Didn’t even know his own strength…
Specter on the floor talking about NSA.
looseheadprop @ 72, I’m sure Hastert knows all about about the “Chicago Way.” His district isn’t in Chicago, but it’s close enough . . .
Specter says that AG Abu’s testimony to the Judiciary was stonewalling plain and simple. Does not know if recalling him would be useful at all.
BTW
If there is going to be widespread coverage of corrupt congress critters, maybe it is time to revisit ABSCAM and see if any remnants of that flow into the current scandals?
Slow Down Folks!
The Repubs ain’t acomein’ to thier senses!
Thanks to Chimpy we’re gonna be talking about
William Jefferson, a Democratic bribery scandle, for the next 45 days. And the Repubs will make the most of a democratic bribery scandle for the next forty five days. At least!
Carl Rove>The Abrahamoff Scandle gone from the headlines
Knuckledragger,
From what I have read and seen, it looks like the G-Dubster would have a hard sell if he tried “crossing the Rubicon”.
But, let’s not say that he wouldn’t try it.
By the way, I love the new “Frank Luntz” focus group Bush. All apologies for his “tough talk” now. As with everything he does, it is phony.
The Tony Blair handjob show is too much for me. The two combined down’ reach 50% in any polls.
-GSD
The reason the stink of corruption sticks to the GOP is because of the way the party has handled the revelations about their own.
When you block ethics investigations, when you re-write the ethics rules to benefit the corrupt, when you don’t maintain a standard that does not tolerate corruption, you don’t get to take the high road when someone in the other party gets caught with his hand in the freezer.
And when the party of the guy with his hand in the freezer asks for an ethics investigation of that person, and asks him to resign his committee membership, and some in that same party call for him to resign from the House altogether, the message is that that party has standards, and is not interested in fostering an atmosphere that is conducive to corrupt and illegal activity.
My dad used to say that when you point your finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at you. The GOP can rightly decry Jefferson’s behavior, but it does not negate their own transgressions, and rings hollow in light of the way they have handled these issues within the party and within Congress.
Peterr, Oh, I’m sure Haster does too. What stuck me is that ABC seems to have caught on.
If they keep Hastert right next to Jefferson in the story, it dis incentivises Hastert to keep the “constituional crisis” going.
getting ‘address not found’ for CSpan.org links…
So, Arlen thinks Gonzo stonewalled. Sound impeachable to me.
CNN is reporting shots fired in the Rayburn Building; Capitol locked down.
The stonewalling of the Congress and the Judiciary in particular, is because of the expanding Executive. The Executive has the power to veto, not cherry pick with signing statements.
Specter railing against the corrosion of the separation of powers.
If you add Jefferson’s office to the WHOLE mix it gets even more interesting. After all, the Rep’s may be arrogant but they’re not stupid (well, not always). Comin down the pike at them imminently is Karl’s Come to Jesus Moment, another Official A named, Congressfolk named in unpleasant investigations surrounding Wilkes & Abramoff, etc etc – well of course Bush & Blair were forced to admit they were wrong on tv, and we all know just how bad things have to be to get even a squeak to be muttered so the level they had to go to to distract was pretty high up there. Hastert’s reaction wasn’t just a ,”Oh shit I could be next moment”, he’s choosing his outrage here and he really wants Separation of Powers not just in the Constitutional sense, but in the sense of Rep re-elections as well. Hastert hit a tipping point and he may be pissed but he hasn’t disengaged his own personal tactical senses and with Congress’s poll #’s in toilet, he recognize this moment to fight.
Boi Boi
You are as much a cynic as I am. Someone upthread also mentioned a coincidence between the “cooling off” period and the date for the conference committee on the immigration bill
Last week the spinning pundits (even Tweety) were saying that if Bush fails to get an immigration Bill passed, his presidency is for all intents and purposes, OVER.
I am highly suspicious. And I don’t think Congress is on solid legal ground here.
I am failry certain the WH is on NO legal ground by seiazing the the warrant return materials.
About the only folks who seem to have even a nodding aquaintance with the rule of law in this incident are the people who applied for a warrant and (assuming the aplication was legally sufficient) the judge who granted it.
The juroisdiction over the warrant procedes is the judge’s, not the WH. This is crazy.
…minutes after Hayden’s CIA confirmation…
And Arlen…
looseheadprop, your question about prior instances of executive meddling in DOJ investigations brought to mind one stunning example: Archibald Cox and the Saturday Night Massacre. Of course, that didn’t work out so well for the executive in question. I’m sure there are other instances, bipartisan in nature, but much less flashy and so they don’t generally make the papers. You might look up some old FBI agents or federal attorneys, who might comment upon some of their “unsolved” cases after a few beers . . .
And Kavanaugh confirmed to the Court of Appeals.
Gack!
Dirk Kempthorne also confirmed today as Interior Secretary.
CNN now says “possible shots” fired in the garage.
Peterr at 59
I think your theory seems not only plausible, but likely. Nobody would go lightly into a Congressman’s office. Also, the judge may have initially found the warrant application insufficient and sent them back to get more probable cause.
When an initial warrant application is turned down, the agents and the prosecutor get really insecure and tend to come back with what they need times ten.
BTW, I remember Operation Greylord, too. They bugged the table at the diner where the corrupt judges used to sit around and talk about their dirty dealings. IIRC the indicted judges tried a seperation of powers type argument that the table at the diner was sacrosanct as if they were in their judicial chambers. Correct me if I’m wrong, did that not lead to a precedent saying that the chamber are not sacrosanct if you are commiting crimes in them?
and an excuse to search any/all offices during a mini-martial law lockdown on the Hill…
…suspend Congess?
good lord…sucks that that’s even ‘on the table’…
Reterr at 90.
I did think of Archibald Cox, but I don’t recall the WH actually seizing the evidence. Did they?
It’s the seizing the evidence part that leaves me gasping for air.
Let’s be very careful not to lend too much credence to the staged outrage. Remeber it was this conservative DOJ who brought the raid down on a Democratic member of the House, whereas the recent trevails of known felon Cunningham, and implicated wrongdoer Ney, brought no such similar action. Granted, Jefferson’s alleged crime is a grotesque, bizarre act.
But it all seems to dovetail too neatly for me to follow the chain of events: Republicans Scandal>No Raid>Dem Scandal>Raid>Republican Outrage in Defense of Dem Responsible for Outrageous Act.
This bears such close similarity to Cheney/Rove’s reaction to the Plame investigation. Use the federal courts to tie up the process and stall the thing to a grind. Remember all the heavy hitter lawyers engaged by Time (Ted Olson) and Judy Miller, in anticipation of grand rhetorical flourishes on the sanctity of the first amendment before the highest court in the land. Until the SCOTUS turned down the case, which was the one unforeseen flaw in Cheney/Rove’s plan.
Republicans are seeking to erect a system whereby they get to wax stentorian for the TV, blathering about “Constitutional crises,” while simultaneously drawing focus on the Jefferson investigation, ad nauseum, with nary a word on Cunningham/Abramoff/Hooker investigations.
It’s not hard to see, with reports of DeLay engaging a day trader in his offices, why Republicans would not wish to invite the Feds to raid their offices. But given the odd nature of the raid, with no similar actions taken in response to admitted crimes on the part of Republican representatives, it seems much more plausible to me that this entire endeavor is a staged, rehearsed response to potential political damage stemming from Abramoff, et. al. Which makes Pelosi’s acquiescent assistance all the more disturbing and, frankly, sickening.
“Senate confirms Hayden as CIA director… He was approved by a vote of 78-15.”
Once again, we see compelling evidence that the Democrats STILL do not even begin to understand what is going on. They are not “just one more innocent witness to the crime“. They are, in fact, willing coconspirators. And it is interesting that a few Republicans are beginning to understand better than many Democrats the serious implications of unchecked executive power.
It would appear that the majority of Democrats in the Senate have no problem with the NSA’s illegal wiretapping program and its principle architect. I can’t wait to see what Hayden will do for the CIA.
So, do you really believe the Democrats would behave differently if they succeeded in taking a majority in the House this fall? I have to tell you, I’m more than a little skeptical. Change can happen when there is a deep and honest desire to change but I see no evidence of such a desire on the faces of most Democrats.
78-15? Wow. Now there’s a party working hard to show they believe in the rule of law and that they really want my vote… (cynical snark fully intended)
Could someone please post a link to the breakdown of this vote. I’d like to know which specific Democrats have my best interests at heart. I haven’t been able to find it online yet. Thx!
Ann,
I’m not near a TV.
Which garage?
“Irony Abounds” – Christy
ding, ding, ding – Winnah !
this is like the Pesce character in JFK, ‘riddle, wrapped in an enigma, shrouded in mystery; . . .
many theories espoused upthread have credence -save any that include forethought – this is after all, the gang that couldn’t ‘coup’ straight
Chimpy knew about this coming – his playing ‘graciously concillatory’ (sp?) and not digging his little boots in is my first clue
I’m leaning with Fed Lawyer upthread – pushback on formerly loyal Hastert – the unprecedented 2 hour harangue of Cheney and on demand face time w/ the Chimp – am sure the WH expected t/b ‘greeted as liberators’ by the ever pliant Congres
Yes, this bit of theatre is going to benefit one of the parties – but I doubt it was planned that way –
(Novak Warning!)
http://www.suntimes.com/output…..#8221;> Haster’s Hissy
OT
Hyden confirmed to head CIA
Republican Alan Specter voted against Hyden confirmation
and so did the following Democrats.
Bayh(D-Ind)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Dayton(D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin(D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin(D-IA)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Obama(D-IL)
Wyden(D-OR)
7 senators did not vote
There was a incident in the 50’s where some Puerto Rican nationalists stormed the House and shot up the place.
Maybe Lou Dobbs is taking the militias and the fight to DC?
-GSD
Another point, for all the guff that Bayh gets, he is often voting with the good guys. Much more than you would expect.
-GSD
Byrd fans– he is up on the floor talking about our fallen heroes– it ought to be a barn-burner!
It’s the Rayburn garage, supposedly.
LHP -
Greylord! I couldn’t remember the name – thanks for bringing it back.
Now that the memories have been jogged, I think it was state court judges that were under investigation, not federal, but the separation of powers argument still was raised. And yes, I think you’re right about the “chambers are for trying crimes, not committing them” judgment. Arguing separation of powers went nowhere.
the NRA didn’t give Cheney yet another new gun did they ?!?!
The part of this story that piques my interest the most is the seemingly intentional way Bush appears to have put the Congressional Republicans between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they can defend a clearly corrupt Democrat, possibly at their own electoral peril. On the other hand they can hand over what Constitutional protections they have from a flipantly intrusive executive, possibly at their own electoral peril. It’s a very tricky situation for him to have put his own party in and I believe it just goes to show that he is a man with no loyalty whatsoever.
The actions of the Democrats also seem to be a bit of an enigma here. Are they confident that Bush won’t abuse this newly acquired power or are they just being cowards, too scared to stand up even when it’s easy to do so? They had no trouble whatsoever with flushing OUR protections down the shitter, but I thought atleast maybe they would have some interest in protecting their own. Maybe even that is a little too troublesome.
Ceci, anyone, Was it expected that Specter voted no?
garage? what about the lockdown?
SWEEP FOR ANTHRAX! (just kiddin’)
sweeping for bugs, though, that’s another thing.
They came for the CIA analysts, but I wasn’t a CIA analyst, so I didn’t speak up for them. Then they came for the reporters, but I wasn’t a reporter, so I didn’t speak up for them. Then they came for me, but by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
From CNN.com
Specter’s No on Hayden looks like classic ass covering to me – clearly he thinks he can salvage his rep as ‘constitutional adherent’
as I’ve told him in my love letters – too little, too late
hey thanks Ceci – anyone know who the 7 non votes were ?
yeah, and ‘who’ is executing the lockdown?
Captitol police? Or FBI? Or other?
That 45-day ‘cooling-off period’ makes me wonder if they’re going to be using it to add convenient ‘evidence’ against some other Dems.
‘Just sayin’.’
Fuck these sanctimonious bastards to hell. At least the FBI had a warrant read and signed by a judge. That’s a lot more than the millions of Americans have had who are being spied on by King Dumbya and his minions. Since when are the halls of congress a sanctuary for criminals? They fostered an imperial presidency now they can just live with it like the rest of us. Fuck them all.
Color me cynical but…they must all have something to hide.
The Congress, all hand picked corporate toadies (Dems included, progressives, get a friggin clue willya? The dems are the eternal Lucy to your Charlie Brown…they are there to keep YOU out of power…they are Ivory Snow instead of Tide but still, just a soap) has allowed der shrubenfuherer to beshit the constitution for so long that most members don’t even realize that they are now irrelevant.
News flash ppl: Chimpus Maximus aint leavin in 2008. You heard it here first.
Ok, Capital police…
nevermind.
Am starting to feel like life is beginning to imitate “24.” Where is Jack Bauer to save the republic???
Peterr,
I think you are right it was state court judges, though there was press speculation at the time that ther might be a federal judge too, but nothing seemed to come of it.
When judge (oh gosh I forgot her name)’s family was killed the year before last, I cruised through the open cases in NDIL and there was some conspiracy guy with a pro se case claiming some massive scheme among a bunch of federal judges, some hospital boards and that her husband was the bagman. Really out there stuff. But I thought I recognized some of the names, from the Greylord speculation.
I didn’t know what to make of it, but theyseem to have a lot of cases involving fraud and hospitals out there. Don’t know if the pro se guy was on to something, or just conflating unrelated events.
Lady, the Republic is dead already and has been since 1951.
Gawd Amurrikans are kept intentionally ignorant but it’s all been over except for the PR worthy facade for 50 years.
The ‘not voting’ list:
Boxer (D-CA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dole (R-NC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Thune (R-SD)
The ramifications could also mean the FBI could raid doctors’ offices, lawyers’ offices, universities’ offices. Your records. Your information.
itwasntme at 111
Brilliant!! Abso freakin’ brilliant!!
from the CNN.com report…
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI…..index.html
“Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Michigan, was conducting a House Intelligence Committee hearing at the time, according to an Associated Press report. Hoekstra interrupted a witness to tell those at the hearing to remain in the room and said doors must be closed.
“It’s a little unsettling to get a Blackberry message put in front of you that says there’s gunfire in the building,” he told AP.
Business continued as usual on the Senate side, CNN’s Dana Bash said.”
—–
cspan.org still not loading for me.
“Where is Jack Bauer to save the republic???
He’s off torturing people he doesn’t like, ignoring direct orders from his superiors, implementing his own agenda, ignoring the law and putting his entire team in danger. Could be a while before he gets back to us.
House Republicans huddled over Twinkies, chips and soft drinks for nearly two hours last evening about the constitutional impasse, even after Bush tried to defuse the conflict by sealing the seized files for 45 days.
General Washington and the Continental Army huddled over Twinkies, chips and soft drinks for nearly two hours last evening at their camp at Valley Forge; the constitutional crisis had reached a dangerous impasse, and the supply of Ding Dongs was dangerously low.
Doing what any wise Republican would do, General Washington sent an email to Lord Howe, who was hangin’ at Fraunce’s Tavern and Cyber Cafe in New York, sayin’ “Let’s Call The Whole Thing Off — BFF?”
And that’s why British States of ‘Murka are ruled by a hereditary Monarch.
Oh, wait . . .
marblex @117
Your cynicism could benefit from the clarity that accompanies a lack of presumptuousness
That meme on 2008 has been around for a time now. This site is sufficiently aware.
Anybody got a ‘20 on the 82nd Airborne?
~
oh, Robert Byrd talking about his wife … they were married on Memorial Day, it would have been 69 years.
agree lhp, itwasntme @ 111– that is brilliant.
I doubt if anyone’s really an “expert” on this area of law, since as you said, it’s never happened before.
Personally, I question whether or not this is an Article I branch vs. Article II branch argument at all. Does Article I provide a shield against a warrant obtained in a manner consistent with Amendment IV? Probably not.
If not, what matter who executes the warrant as long as they have jurisdiction.
Is there some statute or regulation preventing executive or federal law enforcement agencies from law enforcement activities on Congressional grounds? No, but it’s always been that way. Perhaps there is a reason.
I think your “speech and debate” clause argument is unconvincing without something more. For instance, a showing that the Executive was seeking to interfere with Congress’ speech and debate or any other function.
It is the validity of the warrant — issued after a showing of probable cause to believe …. blah blah blah; reasonable particularity … yadda yadda; a neutral magistgrate, etc., etc., etc., all of which make the search reasonable under Amend. IV. It is also more than an Art. I vs. II thing. Art. III is definitely involved.
Ultimately, I think the best the Legislative could hope from a reviewing court woule be a finding that this is a “political issue” and hence, “not justiciable.”
However, I’m glad Congress woke the **** up. Let’s see how long this lasts.
For you non-lawyers the 45 day seal gives congress and Jefferson time to contest the warrant and/or search before any information is revealed to anyone or any agency outside of congress — that is before any harm is done. It also serves to avoid sanctions against DoJ if they screwed up. I’m shocked Bush did anything so reasonable. Makes me think my analysis could be wrong.
I’m a little disturbed by the number of people who consider a police search as an acceptable punishment — even for someone whom we all consider obviously guilty.
Ed N Sted – are you still here ?
quick update on the reverse phone # database the other day -
my po’d neighbor took his laptop to his lodge meeting that night – and shared it with his lodge brothers during the beer & darts portion of the meeting
(of course, I’m armed him with a box of my ‘contact your congresscritter’ cards)
his report – all hell broke loose btw the guys like him and the apparent 29% – Sgt At Arms actually had to put down his beer ! anyway Pres. charged them all w/ reporting back next meeting as to how it went w/ the Congresscritters and added task to minutes ex post facto – Wow !
the cong critters involved are hard core GWB loyalists – but 2 of them Hutchison and Rep. John Carter are facing their first real challenge – so it’ll be interesting
doing what we can here at the lake to piss ‘em off one redneck at a time – lol
ceci & PJ
Thanks for the info. I’m wondering what the reasons for not voting were.
Since when does the President have the legal authority to seal evidence? This is a new one for me. Can Bush now intervene in any Federal case he wants to and seal evicence? Will anyone at DOJ challenge this? I’m certain that Jefferson’s defense team won’t.
I haven’t read through all the responses so I don’t know if this has been mentioned but what is the Bush administration doing while attention is being focused on this and the immigration issue? I mean, there has to be a reason they did something as attention grabbing as raiding a Congressweasel’s office.
From sistertoldja.com:
Justice Department officials said the decision to search Jefferson’s office was made in part because he refused to comply with a subpoena for documents last summer. Jefferson reported the subpoena to the House on Sept. 15, 2005.
So when a Congressman refuses to comply with a subpoena, what other options are at the Justice Dept’s disposal? Obtaining a warrant, which is perfectly legal.
(Could someone tell me how to stop the tags? when I try using something like(i),I can’t get italics to stop again.)
cdl
Yep still here — but new thread calls :)
Thanks for for sharing. People, especially non-technical types, are usually amazed the first time the see it.
It’s also a good illustration of why phone call data provided to NSA is definitely NOT anonymous. To say “there’s no names attached” may be true technically but it is also disingenuous in the extreme.
Sanctimonious John Boner (R-evil) saying that every 2 years he stands up with his right hand in the air and pledges to defend the Constitution and by God that’s just what he’s going to do is so funny I spit my coffee all over my keyboard. That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen since Delay using Colbert to raise defense funds.
I’m a lawyer that does criminal defense and every day I hear people attack the rights of the accused and they say, “If you’re innocent, you’ve got nothing to hide”. Until they’re the accused, that is. Then, by God, they insist on all their rights (See e.g. DeLay,Tom; Libby,Scooter) Those that so blithely are willing to sacrifice the rights of others, are never willing to sacrifice their own. Any chance we’ll have hearings on NSA, Guantanamo, rneditions, or anything else now that the Rethugs have discovered the Constitution? I’m not holding my breath.
somethinrotten
You need to CLOSE the tag and the end using the (/i) format — replace the parens with angle brackets.
somethingsrotten – put a slash / in front of the “i”, and put them both inside the less than/greater than symbols
using parentheses here, as example:
(i) to start italics, and (/i) to stop italics
ultra, obviously you know SO much more than anybody else and YOUR comments are MUCH more important.
I am reminded of that saying attributed to some clergyman in Nazi Germany that goes something like: I didn’t speak up when they came for “A” … then “B” etc. finally they have come for me (or something apologies for killing the quote).
Anyway, I find the sudden fire in the belly for protecting the Constituion found by Hastert and his boys a little disengenuous. They have had ample opportunity to appreciate the threat that the Urinary Executive theory is (It is urinary because it was expressly created to piss on Constitutional separation of powers). Yet now at the sight of the possibility of DOJ investigators going after corrupt pols – they find constitutional religion.
I suppose in my most sympathetic moment I can manufacture a hallucinatory belief that they are worried that Bush would not hesitate to use his powers to invade the Capitol for purely political reasons. But then the medication wears off and I figure they are really concerned about special prosecutors running amok. The Republican House leadership expecially can appreciate how that can happen.
Dear fedlawyerdog:
I agree, leverage (”future leverage”) is the REAL issue. But, if it’s going to play out like this, can we expect Fitz to step in, in a timely fashion?
Paul:
Here ya go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F…..ame…
The Dems can make some serious hay out of this Hastert “Constitutional Attack” nonsense:
The Dems should, in unison, proclaim that Speaker Hastert is absolutely correct that the White House has violated the Constitution in this regard. And then the Dems should continue by saying the White House has violated the Constitution in other matters too. The White House has a pattern of Constitutional violations. And since the Congress desires to investigate this most recent Constitutional violation, we should have a comprehensive review of all Constitutional violations, especially this latest. And Speaker Hastert should lead this comprehensive review.
Now wouldn’t this be fun?!
See my post at 111 for an updated version
To Marblex 121 and Ed N Sted 126
I guess it says something about how entrenched we are in the seriousness of these issues that a dollop of humor can get that response.
Only threw it out there because every now and then, in the depth of despair over the state of the nation, I need the lifeline that a little humor can bring.
Certainly did not mean to offend. :-)
Hastert’s having a thrombo about the raid on Jefferson’s office because his office is next and he wants to kill any precedent that allows such a raid. He IS being investigated.
I’m a little disturbed by the number of people who consider a police search as an acceptable punishment %u2014 even for someone whom we all consider obviously guilty.
What? Now I’m all confused. Before this statement you went very thoroughly over why it is not likely a “Constitutional” issue at all: not an Art.I vs Art.II dustup, etc. You go over the warrant, acquired legally and from an impartial judge (in a totally separate but equal branch of government), and how this is right and proper. Then you end it with what appears to be a statement that a warranted search of a criminal congress slime mold’s office AFTER he blows off a subpoena as somehow inappropriate? How does your last sentence in any way fit with the entirety of your previous argument?
I litigated a case in New York City involving the Speech and Debate Clause, which has a state and City counterpart here. The only issue is whether the actions of the legislator arise from the performance of official duties–legislation, committee meetings, etc– or anything else, such as constituent services or suspected bribery. The former are absolutely privileged; the latter are not. And the privilege certainly does not ever extend to criminal conduct. The privilege also extends to defamation for anything said on the floor of Congress as well, but not if said elsewhere.
Take a look at U.S. v. Brewster, 408 U.S. 501.
Therefore, Hastert is wrong, and while the politics of the situation are arguable, the legality of the court-issued search warrant seems unimpeachable, so to speak. What if there were probable cause to believe there were a dead body in the office?
I litigated a case in New York City under the speech and debate clause, which has counterparts in both the state and the City. The only issue is whether the acts are legislative acts, such as drafting, committees, etc., or anything else, such as constituent services, or extra-legislative acts. There is no protection for the latter, including any crimes. Similarly, there is an absolute privilege against defamation for anything said on the floor, but not if said elsewhere. Take a look at U.S. v. Brewster, 408 U.S. 501.
Thus, while the politics of this are pretty obvious, the validity of the search warrant seems clear and Hastert is, as usual, wrong. What if there were probable cause to think there was a dead body in the Congressman’s office?
Got to lay this out about the Jefferson case:
1. Pelosi demands his resignation via letter
2. Congressional Black Caucus goes crazy, threatens mutiny come November.
3. Bush steps in and freezes all but can’t take news cycle because of Enron.
4. Bush/Repubs hoping for in-fighting among Dems for at least 45 days.
5. How many days until the elections?
6. Which branch of goverment controls Justice and FBI?
7. Is this John Mitchell (Gonzalez) all over again but through a back door? Justice Dept. seems blatantly partisan and curious how the last time we had this problem, Cheney, Rummy and all were in the administration.
8. Will Supreme Court have to make a decision about the legality of all this?
9. I am thinking that Pelosi backed off in order to let things develop. She has to believe that the Enron/Hastert/NSA stuff will hold attention through the weekend and the CBC will decide they can’t bank on Jefferson.
Jeeze.
I’m glad somebody on the lefty blogosphere –*Christy*– recognizes the bigger picture here, and says that Pelosi and Hastert are right to slam the administration for overstepping bounds.
Yet we see folks like Praedor frothing over quite a different issue, that of Congressional corruption, and the offputting discovery that not all Dems are purer than Caesar’s Wife.
And therefore all of Congress should be subjected to unlimited search and seizure, at the command of the Autocratic Executive, warrant or no warrant, because There Are Bad People There. This is not only an extreme position, it is frankly insane.
Then there are those who defend the FBI as some sort of apolitical outfit “just doing its job” cleaning up the corruption of public officials, yadda, yadda. Would that it were so. Unfortunately, it is not. FBI and DoJ in general are the creatures of this White House, and thus act (or withold action) based on orders from this White House. Surely the command from Bush himself, if the reports are correct, to “seal” the papers seized from Jefferson’s office for a 45 day cooling off period, should be illustrative. In other words, this whole thing is being run out of the White House, and apparently Bush is the Decider who Decides who will face corruption investigations and who will not.
The danger to the shreds that remain of the Republic has to be recognized.
So all of those who are calling for more raids and more searches of Congressional offices, and more intrusion of the Autocratic Executive into the deteriorating business of the Legislative, under Color of Authority of the Judicial Branch really need to think through what they are calling for.
It’s nothing less than abject yielding to the Dictatorship Bush has been threatening all along.
I am thinking that Pelosi backed off in order to let things develop. She has to believe that the Enron/Hastert/NSA stuff will hold attention through the weekend and the CBC will decide they can’t bank on Jefferson.
Pelosi was correct to call for his committee resignation. He is holding his position and career above the good of the party and the country. Selfish personal concern is working to muffle Dem wins in November. CBC was wrong. I don’t give a flying f*ck about his race, he accepted a bribe on tape and stashed it in his freezer and then ignored a subpoena issued seeking info from his office. GUILTY! If not guilty of the actual crime (he is) he is definitely guilty of screwing the Dems – and the CBC is guilty of holding a criminal congress slime mold up as somehow holy simply because he’s black. Oh no, mustn’t imply that a black congress slime mold, from a criminal state no less (I know of which I speak…Louisiana is only slightly less corrupt, top to bottom, than Texas) could possibly be wrong or guilty of anything. Why, accusing a guilty politico, who happens to be black, of a crime is blatant racism.
To me it looks like the Dems are really really working to snatch yet another defeat from the jaws of victory here. They LIKE being the loser.
Bush is now protector of Constitution and the independence of the legislative branch?!! Give me a break.
The Constitutional issue of whether the offices of an elected official (legislative branch) should be searched by Federal agents(administrative branch) who have been granted a search warrant by the court (judicial branch). Bush’s action to block investigators access to the evidence recovered does nothing to change the Constitutionality of the search, it only serves to give Hastert and others time to destroy evidence and come up with stories before they are questioned by Federal investigators.
marblex @ 140
Take a pill.
Once again you are presuming too much… but what do I know?
Methinks thou doth project too much.
~
This incident was about two things:
1. Reinforcement of the meme – already pushed constantly in the “liberal” corporate media – that “Dems are just as bad as the GOPs in Congress,” and
2. Intimidation of Congress members and other potential opponents by demonstrating that not only do the Bushies HAVE the blackmail information on many of them, but they will USE it without being bound by legal and traditional precedents. This, of course, is one of the major uses of all the spying: gathering blackmail material to force obedience and favors.
Paul Craig Roberts also believes that the craven behavior of Congress and the media is at least partially explainable by blackmail with information gathered illegally by the Bush Administration:
“We have reached a point where the Bush administration is determined to totally eclipse the people. Bewitched by neoconservatives and lustful for power, the Bush administration and the Republican Party are aligning themselves firmly against the American people. Their first victims, of course, were the true conservatives. Having eliminated internal opposition, the Bush administration is now using blackmail obtained through illegal spying on American citizens to silence the media and the opposition party.” (http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts02062006.html)
Why do they think the people will be sympathetic about this?
My desk, computer, work papers aren’t mine. If I’m in school, my locker and my things are subject to random drug and weapons searches. If I say the wrong thing online, using a work or school machine, I could lose the ability to learn or keep my job.
And, when one of their own was roughed up by the Capitol Police, they thought it was just some crazy Negro woman with bad hair making a fuss.
They have allowed this to happen, even when we told them where it would lead. Now, they want us to feel sorry for them, when the rest of the country has suffered deeper erosions of their privacy? Screw collegiality and Congressional tradition — they screwed the little traditions we called the Bill of Rights for six years.
And isn’t Pres. Bush interfering in what is an ongoing investigation? If he feels free to do this now, howcum he can’t revoke Karl Rove’s security clearance, just to be safe?
Shoulda picked this fight over the SC judges, or the bankruptcy bill — then they would have been heroes; now they seem like whores shortchanged of a Christmas bonus.
Yet we see folks like Praedor frothing over quite a different issue, that of Congressional corruption, and the offputting discovery that not all Dems are purer than Caesar’s Wife.
You are clearly immune to hyperbole, which is what that was. I am rightfully pissed off about two things: 1) The bullshit concern about the “Constitution” suddenly spewing from Hastert’s mouth after years of spitting on the Constitution at the behest of the Admin, somehow claiming that Congress is entitled to free crime merely by way of hiding the evidence in their holy offices. See, not even a warrant signed by a judge is good enough to search a holy Congress slim mold’s office…but screw warrants when you want to find dirt on the “little people” (that would be us); and 2) That Jefferson, caught red handed ON TAPE, then caught with the stash packed away in his freezer, THEN ignoring a subpoena, has the gall to claim he’s innocent, and worse, refusing to do the right thing regardless and step down from his committee seat. He chooses his personal enrichment and career over the good of the party. He chooses to stick a shiv in the Dem party which WAS looking good to take back the House not insignificantly because of the “Culture of Corruption” in the GOP. Jeffy boy is busy driving that culture straight into the Dems, taking it away as a valid and useful argument for them to be given control again.
Welch William,
I wish I knew when and if Fitzgerald would return and indict Rove, I keep reading FDL religiously, waiting for the news, and on Wednesday and Fridays I often walk past the courthouse to check on the media trucks. Fitz is obviously committed to bringing the strongest case possible and that always takes longer than people want. I trust that his perseverence will pay off for all of us. But I have absolutely no inside scoop on this at all, sorry.
The time it took until the raid took place could have been the amount of time the FBI spent trying to get the warrant, assuring the Judge that they wouldn’t been seeking sensitive information, and laying out exactly the justification and what they expected to find.
The warrant for the search is HUGE and I’ve not read it. 95 pages is a bit much for me to read of ANY legaleeze document. It’s here if you want to see it.
My gut tells me that we’re going to find out that there was sustantial cause for the FBI to seek a warrant to do this. Mostly because they sought a warrant.
I would be smelling abuse if this went like every other executive branch abuse. When the executive in this administration doesn’t think it can secure a warrant, it just goes on without one.
What I’m smelling is unprecedented, and yes, in the future the Judges need to be VERY aware of who is being searched (I’m giving the issuing judge the BoD here and thinking he was) and making sure there isn’t ulterior motives or conflict of interest in the search/raid/whateveryouwanttocallit.
But I echo, we don’t want Congressmen hiding behind the privacy clauses and doing illegal activities from their offices.
Is it just me or is everyone kinda prickly today?
Maybe it’s the new moon rising…?
~
Hastert, Frist, and DeLay:
http://www.light-to-dark.com/crucifixion.html
Even with the Republican party disintegrating, the nationalist socialist ratchet wrench clicks forward. Its one party now. Apparently, We the People don’t need no stinkin’ democracy.
Regards
Ch Pasa @ 152 –
So let’s review. . . When the FBI works with Fitz to go after Irving, Cheney, and Rove, they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when they go after a Congressman, it’s because they’re tools of the White House.
It wasn’t “one branch going after another” – they had a warrant, signed by a federal judge. That’s part of the constitutional process called “due process” and reflects those checks and balances that folks around here are so fond of speaking about.
I, for one, am glad to see them at work. Would that it happened more often.
This is a good chance to put netroots candidates on notice – we want webcams in yr offices and access to all yr financial details. ‘ Nothing to hide…’ It’s the only way to be sure.
The Republican legislators did nothing but wrap themselves in the flag, wring their hands and make little clucking sounds while our rights were stripped away. Now they are having their own moment of truth. Hastert and the whole corrupt bunch did nothing while habeas corpus was eviscerated, everything and everyone was tapped, bugged and subpoenaed, torture was normalized, all in the name of “protecting” the American people. The Republicans stood bye, greedily lining their pockets, enjoying their outrageous perks and selling all that was most precious in America, our civil rights, down the river hardly imagining what any fool could see%u2014that they were next. Only now is the full magnitude of their folly becoming apparent%u2014And whom can they turn to for support? The public? Obviously not being readers, they will not be able to appreciate how similarly some of Hitler’s cronies were sold out when the moment was right.
I’m not a lawyer, and I’m certainly in the minority, but I think the search of Jefferson’s office was legitimate. There was a warrant, and there was a filter team that went in ahead of the FBI to see what was there. From a WaPo report on the search:
This is well worth a read, BTW, if you’re interested in the constitutional questions.
Like most folks here, I’m suspicious about why the Congress suddenly woke up to the separation of powers issue at this particular time. Maybe it’s just the sort of emotion everyone feels when strangers go through your belongings and there’s nothing you can do about it. To that I say, welcome to our world.
Considering how many Congressmen, including Boehner and Hastert, are tied up with the Abramoff and Duke scandals, I can think up an ulterior motive for their actions that takes far fewer mental gymnastics than trying to figure out what BushCo might be up to.
They had a warrant signed by a judge, which is more than this same Congress seems to think the Executive needs to invade our privacy. According to the article above, they took a couple of boxes of documents and copied disk drives. Thanks to the 45 day waiting period, Congress has time to identify anything they think might be privileged information related to legislation or constituents’ privacy.
If this incident makes them remember why there’s Fourth Amendment, then all the better. I hope they do Hastert’s office next.
Taylor’s been on this story for a while now. Check those articles out for more information.
The Republican legislators did nothing but wrap themselves in the flag, wring their hands and make little clucking sounds while our rights were stripped away. Now they are having their own moment of truth. Hastert and the whole corrupt bunch did nothing while habeas corpus was eviscerated, everything and everyone was tapped, bugged and subpoenaed, torture was normalized, all in the name of protecting the American people. The Republicans stood bye, greedily lining their pockets, enjoying their outrageous perks and selling all that was most precious in America, our civil rights, down the river hardly imagining what any fool could see, that they were next. Only now is the full magnitude of their folly becoming apparent. And to whom can they turn to for support? The public? Obviously not being readers, they will not be able to appreciate how similarly some of Hitler’s cronies were sold out when the moment was right.
Some still don’t get it. Like the CIA, the FBI has two faces: One is functionally a neoconic SS, and the other is working with Fitz and the magistrates. So Gonzo is being shadowed. Turnabout is a real bitch.
Incidently, my image was submitted to the FBI.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/prism.html
No black sedans. Yet.
Some still don’t get it. Like the CIA, the FBI has two faces: One is functionally a neoconic SS, and the other is working with Fitz and the magistrates. So Gonzo is being shadowed. Turnabout is a real bitch.
Incidently, my image was submitted to the FBI.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/prism.html
No black sedans. Yet.
What is the significance of the FBI blowing past the Seargent-at-Arms when entering Jefferson’s office? They had a warrant but was there at least a fight? This may be where the rub lies; whom is in charge of what?
There is no direct answer here but somethings took place that have never happened before in our history. Cool.
By the way, is there anyone out there that doesn’t expect the administration to play hardball? We got a fight on our hands and it is going to be interesting to watch and blog.
Peterr et al.
Again. You need to pay attention to the larger picture. This was a direct assault on the privilege of an independent branch of government, and a further assault on the Constitution, a document already in tatters. It was not about Jefferson or any of his alleged crimes. It was about further undermining the already vastly diminished authority of Congress, even over its own membership.
If the FBI had raided Tom DeLay’s office, it would be just as wrong.
The question, ultimately, is whether Congress shall yield to the command of the Autocracy… or not.
I’m sure while they were so busy rubber-stamping the trampling of the rights of Americans in general, they had no idea that they themselves might be subject to such treatment. Now they know. What they do about it remains to be seen, but if the Senate vote to approve Hayden is any sign, they’ll do nothing in the end, and their authority will be effectively abolished. Representative government in the United States will cease to exist.
Wrong as a Republican Congress can be and is, they have not, up till now, completely abandoned their Constitutional role (just perverted it). Hastert and pals may be putting up a fight for show, or they may really mean it.
As for those who miss the point entirely, a course in history wouldn’t hurt. You might want to start with the reign of Charles I and his controversies with Parliament, go on to the English Civil War, Charles losing his head, the Cromwell dictatorship, the Restoration, the short sorry reign of James II, and the Glorious Revolution, all of which can inform you just a little bit about our own Revolution, and the many forces behind the separation of powers and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
If the FBI had raided Tom DeLay’s office, it would be just as wrong.
Really? How far does that crap go? There is magic in the halls of Congress that renders any and all WARRANTS signed by a JUDGE (and not the president or not via a bogus NSL) ineffective? Can Congress Slime bugger boys in their offices with impunity? Do they get a free pass so long as they act out their crimes in the privacy of “their” (OURS, WE own them all) offices?
How nice. I want that gig. I want to be able to accept bribes, extort money, fondle women staffers, shoot political opponents dead, etc, etc, all within a superimmunitybubble of an office in the Congress. No wonder they sell out their constituents the instant they get to DC. They get to do anything they want and screw the laws they happily drop on the rest of us.
I, too, want the offices searched – but not by the FBI as a tool of the executive branch. That way leads to problems like we face today.
If I ran the zoo:
The ethics committee and the leadership in Congress would be notified about alleged misbehavior of any member(s).
They would be presented with a warrant.
They, then, would seal the office(s) in question and be responsible for providing the pertinent information.
This gives Congress the opportunity to determine if what is requested on the warrant is both within Constitutional bounds and reasonable, or to refuse compliance and refer to a higher authority.
Handled in such a way, the executive branch is not free to interfere with Congress (i.e., intimidate, coerce, or use for political gain). And Congress would be forced to work in a bipartisan way to ensure that their Constitutional authorities were protected and that their members were behaving as they should. It would certainly force them to do better than they have done so far.
Transparency in such a process like this is necessary because no one should be above the law. But interference by the executive branch, on top of being a very bad precedent, muddies the water considerably.
I fail to see why Congressional leaders were not in the loop on this and believe that the way this was handled was inappropriate. It doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Just skimmed the search warrant application for the search of Jeffersons office. Much redacted.
What is not redacted would certainly be convincing to me if I were a judge.
My guess is that the warrant will hold up.
What is not redacted would certainly be convincing to me if I were a judge.
My guess is that the warrant will hold up.
Doesn’t surprise me in the least. Jefferson is a crook. Hastert, et al, are crooks. I hope there are warrants and searches of THEIR offices next. THAT is the reason Hastert is spazzing out on this. HE is in the crosshairs, as is many of his criminal cabal GOPer buddies. Good riddance to crap.
I have to say I’m with Praedor and a few others on this. HOW is the FBI getting a warrant signed by a member of the judiciary branch a “direct assault on the privilege of an independent branch of government, and a further assault on the Constitution, a document already in tatters” or “overstepping bounds”? The FBI agents, by all accounts I’ve read so far, maintained the system of checks and balances. If they can’t search a congressperson’s office under these circumstances — i.e., not moving forward until getting approval by a member of the third branch of government — under what circumstances can they do so? None? Are you guys saying that a congressional office is beyond reach?
Bullshit.
I AM looking at the big picture, as so many here have implored me to do. The big picture I see is a bunch of corrupt congressmen harping on about the search not because they have a legitimate concern about the constitution, but because they’re afraid of their own offices getting searched. THAT’s what how Hastert came across when he blew his top the day before ABC news reported he was under investigation. If the Dems are smart, they’ll continue to insist that Jefferson resign, and work with law inforcement agencies on policies and procedures for similar, necessary searches in future (i.e., involving the sgt. at arms when there’s a search warrant) instead of climbing on board the You Can’t Search Our Offices Train with Hastert. That’s a sure way to fully undermine the “culture of corruption” meme in favor of the “all scandals are bipartisan” meme the republicans are trying to push.
I, too, want the offices searched – but not by the FBI as a tool of the executive branch. That way leads to problems like we face today.
If I ran the zoo:
The ethics committee and the leadership in Congress would be notified about alleged misbehavior of any member(s).
They would be presented with a warrant.
They, then, would seal the office(s) in question and be responsible for providing the pertinent information.
This gives Congress the opportunity to determine if what is requested on the warrant is both within Constitutional bounds and reasonable, or to refuse compliance and refer to a higher authority.
IowaDem, #172 -
What is the higher authority?
Also, I really don’t want congress determining if a warrant on one of their own members is within bounds or reasonable. Number one, I don’t trust them (or any other branch) to police themselves. Number two, that’s what the judicial branch did in this case when they ok’d the search warrant.
That’s why I can’t get into the outrage over Jefferson’s office being searched. The guy blew off a supoena and refused to turn over documents, the FBI got a warrant, a judge approved it. I’m not seeing any reckless disregard for the law on the part of the FBI, but Jefferson on the other hand…
I’m going to say this bluntly.
WE — as in We The People — have nothing to do with the FBI search and seizure in a Congressional office. NOTHING.
This is entirely a matter of an out of control executive attempting to impose its will and authority on a limp and accommodating legislature.
Though they are appearing to put up a fight now, the signs are they will lose. All that rubber stamping of ever greater executive authority they’ve been doing is coming back to bite them hard.
And when they lose, effectively the Congress will be abolished as an independent branch of government.
With our Constitution in tatters and continually pissed on by the Autocratic White House and many members of Congress, with Congress itself subject to the Autocratic Authority of the White House and its agents, and with our Judiciary a wholly owned subsidiary of the Powers That Be, the Republic will essentially come to an end.
I don’t know about anybody else, but I’m not too happy about that. I know there are lots of folks who are happy about it though, who devoutly wish to see the day when all authority and command issues from the White House (for the protection and security of the American People, of course, and the stamping out of corruption as a bonus), and there are even some who believe that the current regime in the White House is the best to protect and secure us — 29% isn’t it? But I don’t believe it.
It’s lunacy to imagine that the agents of this regime are honestly interested in “rooting out corruption” in any case.
While I am sensitive to the separation of powers issue and don’t much care for (to say the very least) the arrogant abuses of power by the Bush administration, I can see nothing but delicious irony and poetic justice in this sort of thing happening to people who voted for and then renewed the Patriot Act.
My apologies if this is old news — no time to read all 178 comments — but in terms of legal action against sitting members of Congress, Article I, Section 6 of the US Constitution states:
[Congress] shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
Bribery’s a felony.
(Hat tip to theangryfag.com, where I stole 80% of this comment.)
Historians will only have to ponder briefly why this democracy was shattered in five/eight years. They’ll report those who could have stopped it were busy talking about the Constitution instead of defending it; resigned to waiting for the criminals to leave office the way the Constitution prescribed they must wait. History will conclude that this mind-set allowed those bent on grabbing power to use the Constitution while hell-bent on trampling it. Our Constitution framers never contemplated a Bush reign enabled by his party’s majority in the House and Senate, and unopposed in any significant way by the minority. A rather short history of a democracy.
#178 -
Until someone shows me clear evidence (not conjecture) that the White House is interferring with and/or orchestrating the investigation of Jefferson, I refuse to call the FBI agents involved “agents of this [Bush] regime”. I know too many honest members of that agency who do their job in a professional, nonpartisan manner to accuse them of acting as willful participants in an unlawful Bush-led power grab. Nothing, NOTHING I have seen has lead me to believe that the search of Jefferson’s office was in any way unlawful or orchestrated by the cabal tied to or in the White House. Those are some pretty powerful accusations, and so far, accusations not backed up by facts. I’m a proud member of the reality-based community. Someone show me the evidence that Jefferson did not ignore a supoena, that he turned over requested documents, that he was cooperating with the investigation, that the White House pressured the FBI to “go after” Jefferson aggressively, that the agents didn’t go to court to get a warrant, or that the warrant was filled with dubious claims and no probably cause, and that the presiding judge has a history of partisan rulings of dubious legality, and THEN maybe we can talk about Bush using the search of Jefferson’s office as a way of imposing his will upon congress.
Jack Balkin speaks for me:
Look people. Saying that a warrant-executed FBI search of a congressional office is an abuse of executive power, lumped in with all of the other abuses of executive power, only weakens the discourse.
There IS a serious problem with this administration abusing power. But to point fingers at legitimate actions and claim that those are abuses will only weaken the argument in the longrun.
But I guess this is what we have to talk about. I mean shoot, I used to live in Mississippi. The stench of political corruption in Louisianna was so strong you could smell it from across the river.
I hear the stench going across the Patomic is just as bad.
What, pray, is so very special about the bribery case against William Jefferson that it requires the FBI to raid his Congressional office and search his office and seize documents from his office, documents which the President now commands must be kept under seal until such time as Mr. Hastert cools off?
A raid, a search and a seizure. Happens every day, but not to a Congressmember’s office. Something that has not been done in 219 years of the Republic’s existence, despite an abundance of corruption, bribery, and refusal of subpoenas over the course of that long history, all of a sudden, THIS bribery case requires a raid of a Congressmember’s office.
Why?
How is it that the FBI and its predecessors investigated and the DoJ ever prosecuted a corrupt politician without raiding their offices? How could they do it?
How?
Why is it so very important NOW that precedence and tradition in these matters be overthrown?
These are questions no one defending this raid, search and seizure really wants to deal with.
But America will have to. For many generations to come.
I suppose we should be happy that GWB doesn’t like horses or else Trigger would get a recess appointment. And Trigger is stuffed! Come to think of it so are a lot of his appointments.
Just for the record, Alberto Gonzalez directly approved the raid. And he’s about as nonpartisan as they get.
Three books come to mind, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer, in which he chronicals a disturbing similarity between this administration and the rise of Adolph Hitler (at the time the book was written, there was no Bush in the white house, and Readings in American Political History by George Kennon (might be out of print) in which he explains the “Maine” incident that lead to the Spanish American War (and will give a clue to what is really going on with the Iran situation). I do not doubt that many of the FDL readers have read these two books, but for those who haven’t they give an amazing perspective on what the Bush administration has done, and is still trying to do. Also, there is some very interesting stuff on Pearl Harbor, in the National Archives, and finally (and please don’t ask me for a reference, because it flew by several months ago), the fact that during the Cuban missile crisis, the Kennedy brothers were deathly afraid of a military coup. It can happen here.
What, pray, is so very special about the bribery case against William Jefferson that it requires the FBI to raid his Congressional office and search his office and seize documents from his office, documents which the President now commands must be kept under seal until such time as Mr. Hastert cools off?
Jefferson ignored subpoenas for over a year. No Republican recently under investigation has done that. Also, he ignored a court order for papers in his office. A court order. Something from the judiciary branch. Historically, people of both parties under investigation have turned over documents when ordered by the court. Pray tell, what was the FBI to do when Jefferson decided start ignoring court orders? Or are you saying that there are protections for criminal evidence hidden in congressional offices? Things like bags of crack? Could they start running a prostitution ring out of congressional offices, because, anything that goes on there is above the law?
What, pray, is so very special about the bribery case against William Jefferson that it requires the FBI to raid his Congressional office and search his office and seize documents from his office, documents which the President now commands must be kept under seal until such time as Mr. Hastert cools off?
Jefferson ignored subpoenas for over a year. Specifically, he ignored a court order for documents from his office. Historically, people of both parties turn over documents when presented with a court order. Historically, people of both parties obey subpoenas issued by the judiciary. Pray tell, what was the FBI and the judicial branch to do when Jefferson decided to break precident? Or can he do whatever he wants in his office, because congressional offices are beyond the reach of the law? If so, I want my own magic room where can hide shit that’s beyond the reach of government too.
Sorry about the double post, though they’re not identical. I refreshed (and refreshed…and so on) and didn’t see my first comment post. And I blamed it on my wonky laptop…again, sorry.
Here’s what really happened:
Bush’s statement: So today I am directing the Department of Justice to seal all the materials recovered from Congressman Jefferson’s office for the next 45 days and not to allow access to anyone involved in the investigation.
We know we have to parse Bush’s words very carefully. Some non-partisan FBI investigators probably nabbed a pile of evidence in Jefferson’s office that incriminates either BushCo or (more likely) Hastert. Hastert flips out. With the evidence now out of untrusted hands, someone “not involved in the investigation” gets a chance to comb through the documents and remove any incriminating evidence.
It’s either that or Hastert realizes that his office might be next.
I suspect the former. One thing is certain: Bush has not suddenly developed a concern for protecting the Constitution — especially to bail out a Democratic Representative.
“But then you have to ask yourself why of all the GOP crooks in the congress, and they are legion, the Bush justice department has only taken this unprecedented step with the one outright crook we know of from the Democratic party?” (Digby)
A Gonzales/Republican/White House fishing expedition?
In other words, with so many Republicans on Capitol Hill trying to ward off charges of being corrupt, maybe Gonzales ordered the raid on Rep. Jefferson’s office to try to find possible evidence of any other “dirty” Democrats connected to Rep. Jefferson, to try to even the imbalance between the large number of Republicans facing federal investigations, and possible indictments, relative to the small number of Democrats.
Thus, Gonzales’ fishing expedition.
Unless, of course, the Justice Department suspects Rep. Jefferson of an additional crime besides the $100,000 bribery scandal…which is chicken feed compared to the millions of dollars involved in the Abramoff and Ney scandals, or the billions of dollars unaccounted for by Republicans in the Iraq War.
However, if I were one of the Republican lapdogs in Congress, I would be very concerned about Gonzales getting the telecom company which provides Capitol Hill telephone services to set up a “secret room” in Washington D.C. from which to “data-mine” Capitol Hill phone calls (of both Democrats and Republicans) in the search for patterns…like who talks with which journalists, especially just before a journalist has an article published which reveals closely-held White House secrets.
In other words, since we know the Bush administration wire-tapped and monitored the U.N. ambassadors’ offices up in New York City before the Iraq War to gather intelligence on the ambassadors for “leverage,” then why would anyone in Congress (whether Republican or Democrat) believe that the Bush administration wouldn’t do the same thing to members of Congress?
I don’t believe people on Capitol Hill have grasped the fact, since BushCo believes it can conduct warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens, that they, too, are vulnerable to BushCo conducting warrantless surveillance of them, whether at home or while in their offices on Capitol Hill.
Remember when John Bolton’s Senate confirmation hearing bogged down after it was discovered that he’d been getting Gen. Hayden, the head of the NSA, to hand over unredacted NSA intercepts because Bolton was curious about what “redacted” U.S. citizens had said in conversations intercepted by the NSA? Did Dick Cheney make similar requests of Gen. Hayden? George W. Bush? Douglas Feith? David Addington? Scooter Libby? Condi Rice?
Does anyone believe that the Bush administration wouldn’t hesitate to illegally put House and Senate members, and their staffs, under surveillance, to help “leverage” the BushCo agenda through Congress? Especially, as it now appears, BushCo believes the leaker behind the NY Times’ illegal NSA “data-mining” surveillance story late last year just might be a member of Congress, or one of their staff, who was one of the few members of Congress privy to this information?
What makes members of Congress, of both the Democratic and Republican Parties, think that BushCo would treat them any differently than BushCo is treating millions upon millions of ordinary U.S. citizens who have had their privacy invaded in the name of BushCo’s Eternal War on Terror and national security?
If the members of Congress don’t get this, then they are all bigger fools than even I imagined.
Speculation.
We’re not going to know the answers to a lot of these questions until the investigation and trials are over. We can speculate about Gonzalez’s motives and the President’s motives all we want. Or we can sit and watch carefully what is released. Don’t just watch CNN and MSNBC for it though. Dig through the diggers. Smoking Gun, for example, which seems particularly apt at getting their hands on key documents. Watch for what you’re not being told in the mainstream and seek it out (stop speculating).
The problem with speculating is that the speculation becomes news, which turns speculation into misinformation. As the wheel turns and the news becomes bigger, the speculation-turned-misinformation becomes disinformation.
I’ll be interested to find out what was in that office that the FBI needed. It could be a lot of things.
About the speculation of the president’s motives: I do think that the FBI probably has an idea of what is there, and if key pieces of info for the investigation are inexplicably missing, then I think we’ll see the blow-up within the Executive branch that we should have seen with Plame.
I just don’t see the signs that the FBI is working for the administration in this.
Oracle:
Dead on. Don’t forget the hacking of Democrat computers
http://www.wired.com/news/poli….._tophead_5
http://www.boston.com/news/nat…..extensive/
and the bugging of the UN before the Iraq invasion:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pap…..nes-in.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor…..492146.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor…..715980.stm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/M…..5Ak01.html
Does anyone really believe that, if they’d be willing to tap Kofi Annan’s and Jaques Chiraq’s phones, they’d have even momentary qualms about spying on domestic political enemies?
Ceci (101):
Feingold and Obama voted to confirm?!? Jesus…..
My money says the 45-day seal is just a foot-dragger, to maximize airplay of the “See?!? The Dems are doing it TOO!” song and dance until November.
And, while, unlike Ms. Smith, I’m no expert on law, I can’t help but feel that, just as with public figures who, by virtue of their visibility, are not afforded the same protections against libel and slander as private citizens, our elected officials should be subject to greater scrutiny and accountability because A) they are, in effect, our paid employees, and B) their actions have such a significantly greater impact upon the welfare of constituents than the average private citizen. And John (#40), that’s not a “proto-facist” stance, but a “transparency in government” one.
I am convinced that this is about one thing.
Keep the focus on the corrupt Democrat for as long as possible. This is a trumped up crisis.
They will drag this out as long as possible.
No investigation for 9-11, WMDs, Plame, torture, Katrina, etc. but I bet there will be one for this.