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I guess even Lou Dobbs has limits. After doing his level best to legitimize the Aztlan myth propagated by Malkin and the rest of the bigotsphere sourced by (what else) bigots, Lou had to backtrack. Says Greg Sargent:
The whole fracas got started when blogs called Liberal Oasis and The Great Society noticed that CNN’s report included a map which it attributed to the Council of Conservative Citizens. The CCC is a group that’s been described by the Anti-Defamation League and many other sources as a white supremacist group formed to succeed the segregationist white Citizens’ Councils of the 1960s. Trent Lott took a bunch of heat for speaking before them a few years back, you may recall.
Dobbs stopped short of apologizing (what — and lose half his audience?) but issued this "explanation":
A freelance field producer in Los Angeles searched the web for Aztlan maps and grabbed the Council of Conservative Citizens map without knowing the nature of the organization. The graphic was a late inclusion in the script and, regrettably, was missed in the vetting process.
Congratulations to Bill Sher and our own Matt O. for backing Lou down from legitimizing this kind of crap. Lord knows enough eliminationinst rhetoric has made its way into the mainstream via people like Ole 60 Grit O’Beirne and Rockin’ Ramesh "Toga Party of Death" Ponnuru, it’s damned important to beat it back whenever possible.
I mean really, Lou. The "CCC." Three letters, all the same, right in a row — remind you of anything? You don’t exactly have to be a member of the fever swamp to connect the dots on that one.
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Fitz!
Dobbs backed down from the graphic, but not the story.
“Civilian Construction Corps”
Cesar Chaves! Si se puede!
CCC(P)
Clinton Clenis Conspiracy
Consumer Credit Counseling
KOBE!
E Pluribus Unum!
Good to see they just Google for some pictures and stick ‘em in their stories! Now that’s journalism!
Rob (ron) 10 – why not, that’s the same place they get the content of the stories. now THAT’S journalism.
You go Jane– you have the fire of the beast roarin’ in yer belly.
ps– bless Kobe and his steadfast Mom.
WTG Matt O on a Cool Cat Catch
fitz shack, baby fitz shack!
tin roof! fitzted!
ding! ding! ding! troll alert! Danger, Will Robinson!
LOL…indeed.
Gee, Lou, could you be a little bit more strident?
I’ve said it before…I interact with Mexicans every day, and I’ve never had a problem with any of “them.”
*cracking myself up*
Slightly off topic, maybe not.
Interesting exchange with Dan Froomkin in yesterday’s WaPo chat.
Philadelphia, Pa.: Do you think members of the press corps care when taken to task by blogs and others who accuse them of dropping the ball, carrying water or otherwise being duped?
Dan Froomkin: My sense is that they certainly notice, and take it personally. (They are very thin skinned.) But they are also immensely self-rationalizing. So I don’t see it changing their ways much. Maybe you guys should try positive reinforcement! I’m not kidding.
One of the things I love about FDL is the attention paid to individual reporters and their good and bad habits. Murray Waas is clearly a hero. Pincus also. Risen. Lichtblau.
But I take what Dan says to heart. Are we too quick to pile on Vandehei, Bumiller, Schmidt, Novak, Isikoff, Woodward, Kurtz, etc. etc. etc.?
One goal it seems is to inform readers (like me) that these reporters are not to be trusted, to encourage informed citizens to take a close look at who their sources are and where their allegiances lie. But if another goal is to get journalists to go on weenie diet, how can we help with the positive reinforcement? Somehow we have to cut through the layers of self-rationalizing that Dan talks about.
I’ve noticed the self-rationalizing behavior even with reporters I respect, like Dana Priest. If you read her WaPo chats, she’s always on the defensive against the blogging hordes.
Lou Dobbs may be a lost cause. But how do we get the Dana Preists of the world to hear us?
OT in Defense of English as a national language Part III
This may seem like déjà vu for some of you since I have already written twice vis-à-vis the importance of English as our national language. But one of my bêtes noires is the laissez faire attitude and dégagé manner of our current President who makes one gaffe and faux pas after another in what is supposed to be his native tongue. Not everyone, I know, can write or speak with élan or panache but at least Bush should be able to find the mot juste from time to time (’suicider’ being only the most recent atrocity). To be frank, it offends my amour propre to see this daily sabotage of English camouflaged as Texan bonhomie and good old boy naïveté. Nor do you have to be a member of a soi-disant élite to feel this way but just a true blue linguistic patriot like me. The raison d’être of English as a national language movement, as I see it, is to use the force majeure of the federal government in the promotion of the proper use of English. This legislation would drag Bush from his semi literate cul-de-sac and require him to speak English for the first time in his life, comme il faut and sans détours. Gone would be the days of our acceptance of his manque of rhetorical savoir faire and toleration of his many linguistic défauts. The débâcle that is his language skills would have at last received its coup de grâce or, at the least, be rendered hors de combat. I say without a soupçon of malice and with a complete sang froid that that is a day I would dearly like to see.
I mean really, Lou. The “CCC.” Three letters, all the same, right in a row %u2014 remind you of anything? You don’t exactly have to be a member of the fever swamp to connect the dots on that one.
Good one, Jane! And, ya know, I’ve always wondered about the KK in Krispy Kreme. And I mean that in all seriousness.
Hugh: pretty damn fucking good !
This is about NYC., America but not really Lou Dobbs.
I was driving across the 59th street bridge when I saw the low flying planes passing up the east river which almost caused a few accidents and I almost threw up with the memories of seeing the planes hit the world trade towers. I turned to my wife who was drenched in tears and very frightened. We called 311 and the operator didn’t want to take our complaint as it evolved the military. I really don’t care if it’s fleet week or if your pro military or not but it is clearly disrespectful to those who died on 9/11 or those who survived to have fly overs close to the Manhattan skyline. What have we become that we can’t even voice our opinions if they do not coincide with the military and American show of might and aggression. I can’t imagine a greater disrespect for those who died on 9/11 than circling low flying planes around Manhattan as if nothing had happened, it’s just disgusting.
Lou Dobbs backs down due to Bill Sher and Matt O at FDL !
Rock on: net-fucking-roots pushback. This is so much bigger than American Idle.
==========
Had enough?
==========
Lou – what does one say. I still have hope for the dude. Stephanie Miller beguiled his ass off, that means he’s potentially salvageable.
Hugh, that was very good. On several levels.
Hugh says:
May 25th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Now in German, please, before Tagalo…
fitz!
300
Harry: Hugh already did a brilliant one in German already . . .
I’m gonna hafta search for the early parts, but PT. III is saved to the desktop already. Noticed the avoidance of using that word pirates dread: parlez. Or parlor; or paramour…
sorry – minding p’s is easier than q’s, mais pourquios?
Hugh!!!! Hilarious. I must have missed one, bec. the only one prev. I read had to do with gestalt.
And, I don’t know if this is apocryphal:
Bush: The problem with the French is that they don’t have a word for “entrepreneur”.
Merci beaucoup, Hugh!
TRex’s station identification person has a little twang. Very nice.
IIRC the German, like this one was correctly augmented with all the umlauts on double secret stuff. Like elan; leads to elation.
ppp 21 – when I saw those towers burning on tv that soul-sickening day, two words kept coming to me and horribly crowding out everything else: martial law. How smoothly and steadily and relentlessly it’s come. Best fucking day of Chimpy’s and Dickhead’s lives.
Hughtz! Rock me baby!
the MECHA quote is a favorite used by the wingers to justify their use and fear of the Reconquista. As I recall, that MECHA quote is from the heady formative days back in 1969 and merely uses the Aztlan word, not Reconquista.
I’m sorry you had that terrible experience, ppp21, what could those planes have been doing there anyway?
Do not feed the troll!
Latin America is on a purposeful drift away from foreign influence. No doubt thanks to some of the policies and attitudes coming out of this administration. Morales in Bolivia, Chavez in Venezuela, and Obrador, the likely successor to Vicente Fox, are all positioned to distance themselves from the United States. The misappropriation of the Aztlan meme by illiterate American wingnuts for the purpose of sliming a whole population will likely come back at us. It’s all about fear.
Matt O. and Bill Sher are my new heros. Bill Maher called Lou Dobbs “the man who hates Mexicans”. I can’t stand to watch his show. It is so blatantly racist. Good on everyone who calls him on that.
TRex’s voice is like buttah, so lovely, I feel like I’m right in the same room with him, and the music is lovely, Bach.
Hugh — good point. If English becomes the national language, will Bush have to start using it?
Bravo Matt O ! ! !
Oh and Hugh, gonna send your comment over to Blue Gal – she has a recurring riff about braniac clever boyz – she’s gonna have you for dessert !
btw Meta: my two pitbabies are named Hugo and Evo. They are great watchdogs and defenders of this house!
hugh -
beautiful, elegant, devastating…
Hugh — good point. If English becomes the national language, will Bush have to start using it?
Jane: MWHAHAHAHA!!!! I think you should “front page” that one!!!!
the CCC is the Civilian Conservation Corps, and was an FDR program established during the Great Depression to help people get jobs,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C…..tion_Corps
To not know that, and to accuse others for not knowing what CCC means by suggesting that it is limited to some conservative organization simply shows your own lack or research Jane. Now you apologize to Lou. Now!
*ilson, oh for sure! You crack me up.
Hard to get fired up about Lou Dobbs WATB racist crap cause I’m finishing up’How Would A Patriot Act?’,on the last chapter.Wow,Its like a hard 1-2 combo punch,when you get back up you can’t help but be pissed off.This stuff slowly adds up over the years-but to see it wrapped up into one tight well written package,its powerful stuff.
HWAPAproject anyone?
required, you do not want to be talking to Jane that way.
*ilson46201 says:
May 25th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
Sorry, I missed that…
There is a apparently a military exhibition in NYC where they show their might but this is really not the place for it if there is any such place. We and probably thousands more were taken by surprise, non the less it is not the place for fly overs. We saw two planes one commercial flying at the level of the skyline wing to wing making sharp turns and flying up the east river, a small corridor that planes don’t fly up and passing the UN. Building. I appreciate the replies although I’ve posted out of context we were pretty freaked out and all the more depressed about our state as a nation and what 9/11 has come to represent.
Hey, Zen! Thanks for tuning in!
TRex’s voice is like buttah, so lovely, I feel like I’m right in the same room with him, and the music is lovely, Bach.
Oh, just wait. I get to try and pronounce things in Czech, Polish, Spanish, and German tonight.
The thing is, even if they had used a different credit for the graphic, the racist story is still the same. And now because Dobbs half-apologized for one-tenth of his offense, he gets off the hook for disseminating racist propaganda while the criticism is moved away from the actual problem: racist groups will always exist at the margins, but their ideas need to be dispelled by the big voices, not advertised.
This got EPU’d and I thought it should be shared, a nice comment from a lurker. If you’re still here Fed, please say hey.
fedlawyerdog says:
May 25th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
I work in a federal agency in DC headed by Republican appointees and have noticed such a change in the last several months as Libby was indicted and Ambramoff and now the Enron folks being found guilty, gone is the smug arrogance that encased their secretive and less than insightful leadership, replaced now with concern and concerted efforts at leaving a recognized “legacy”. These assholes are working on their “legacy” after they have driven senior staff from the agency and undermined the agency mission for five sticking years by ineptitude, greed, arrogance, and secretiveness. Probably in the same way as Bush is trying to rewrite history now to claim he left a kegacy, he has instructed his agency bots to creat their own fictional legacies%u2013to pretend and creat documents at their retirments or farewell parties that create the illusion that they actually did something to improve the country, the agency, the world. It it is the responsibility of blogs like firedoglake et al, to tell the truth and cancel out their self-aggrandizing bullshit. Keep it up! and thanx.
TRex, I’m loving it. I don’t know how to talk about classical music, but I listen to it on ourlocal WGBH and WCRB.
Thank you. I love the horns.
required — I think even Lou knew this was not the Civilian Conservation Corps. Face it, he realized they were bigots and he backed down. I realize that’s hard for you to take, Lou denying your bretheren and all, but thanks for showing up and letting us watch you thrash around in denial. Always good for a laugh.
ppp21, I’d write to Blomberg, myself. That sounds traumatic and you didn’t post out of turn, we are always here if you need to talk about this screwed up universe. Welcome
TRex, I can’t find the link for your broadcast. Would you mind publishing it again? Thanks.
Classical music?Would that be Bob Seiger,Creem,Doors?
Hugh- Your English language posts are hilarious!
…our current President who makes one gaffe and faux pas after another in what is supposed to be his native tongue
And that is after he learned to express himself in a more sophisticated manner!
Jane- So happy to hear that Kobe is doing well. Usually its the dog that behaves in an unusual manner and saves the human. Good to hear that sometimes it is our species that alters our routine (even if due to the flu) and ends up saving the dog!
OT: What is going on with the Amazon advirtisement on the right. On the main page, the list for sale included Crotchless French Knickers and Ann Coulters new book. Jeez. Someone at Amazon has some splaining to do.
just caught this typo from my friend Fed up there, pretty appropriate, yes?
“Probably in the same way as Bush is trying to rewrite history now to claim he left a kegacy,”
Jane, sometimes I read comments as snark when they are not, and vice versa. FWIW.
thanx fedlawyerdog, for the report from inside the moat
and also to zenn for bringing fld to those of us at fdl who missed that.
we’re here for you and glad you’re there for us, fld.
Hugh, sitting here on my divan, in my bungalow reading your post, while wearing my pajamas (after enjoying a little curry and alcohol).
All these grand poobahs and the moguls that really control them are our true enemies, not non native speakers. Where are the Young Turks to lead us?
TRex — years ago I worked at Indiana University’s classical music station — the area was saturated with music and linguistic experts. It wasn’t enough to use standard French, German, Spanish, etc. You had to use the appropriate dialect of French associated with a composer, performer or composition. Multilingual nitpicking!
zennurse 60 – i thought kegacy was intentional, or at least i will continue to believe it was. ;)
Lou Dobbs is still a racist wanker. From what I’ve heard the Aztlan scenario is nothing but white supremist tripe, as credible as the wing nut theories on how Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster or the survivalists’ notions of black helicopters.
Aztlan, from a quick Google search, is indeed a a mythical place of origin which can also refer to the territory lost in the Mexican-American War, but it’s hardly a plan to take over the southwestern US. It’s almost like saying Valhalla is a code word for conquering Scandinavia.
TRes is at wuga in Athens, Ga. I can’t copy his likn, but you can google it.
I was having a little trouble with the troll ID, went back to the prev thread. Did it do what I think it did??? Unbelievable
Of course, I meant TRex, but you knew that.
ppp 21, Was this today? There was a power outage that made all the trains stop, or so I heard on CNN. But the operator…please follow up on that because the emergency operators HAVE to take your calls. How do they know those were friendly planes? Just ’cause…?
I had a real yack moment watching him the other night. It was like one of those Fox news moments I like to forget.& for a while a thought he was starting to be critical of the Chimp regime. If memory serves me correct.
I can t imagine what kind of audience these guys think they re playing to.
ppp21 -
so wish the warplanes had left your city alone….
here in SF the “fleet week” events include two to three days of harassment from low-altitude fighter jets. the naval pilots do aerobatics directly over this densely populated city (and i have been on very dry land in SF with the jets directly overhead).
i was outside of California Pacific Medical Center’s major teaching hospital during the Navy’s most recent assualt last fall. all up and up and the blocks around the inpatient hospital, car alarms wailed – set off by the jets’ vibrations.
my cats pee on the floor. my friends who work with the cognitively impaired tell me their patients are crying and wetting themselves. my neighbor’s little kids cried themselves to sleep.
and the jets do their overflights, and every hour of flight time counts towards the mean time between failure clock.
the overflights in populated and/or sensitive areas directly threaten the health and safety of the residents and citizens of the united states.
i don’t doubt the pilots’ technical expertise, but if they are such patriots, why are they harassing the citizens they purportedly protect?
these overflights aren’t defensive military training exercises – they are choices to display military technology and power in densely populated urban areas.
hmm – i wonder if low level aerobatic military maneuvers are regularly inflicted upon densely populated areas inhabited by affluent Republican voters…
i love the expression “like buttah,” Mike Myers’ finest hour, makes me smile, been too long since I heard it.
What about fact that the whole idea of a significant part of the Hispanic population, or any significant organized Hispanic political or social group, hankering after an “Aztlan Reonquista” is total garbage. I am too young to have remembered the heady days of 1969, but I knew lots of Mecha types, and by late 70s and 80s, no one talked about this.
So, let’s hear Dobbs admit that they shouldn’t have used the CCC graphic, and also admit that the whold concept of the Aztlan Reconguista is a myth, except for the rightwing racists fear mongerers, and maybe a few isolated Hispanic radicals. So Dobbs’ explanation/apology was incomplete in my humble opinion. He should have said it was from a bad source and it was totally bad worthless information.
If anyone thinks they know any different, leave a post -with links and references.
Where did the black helicopter crowd go to?
Where are those militia guys who hated the government, the Posse Comitatus members, the nut cakes who were the privacy nuts during the Clinton years???
Are they All ok with the “Bush Agenda” because he is “their” guy?
Or did the old white boys get too old to play war games out in the backyard and plopped into the Lazy-boy for the TV Generals and endless wars?
Alas I think we’re seeing the fruition of what Ike so dreaded and warned of, the military-industrial mindless monster completely unrestrained. God how are we going to reclaim a halfway civilized nation back from this madness.
http://www.journalinquirer.com…..#038;rfi=6
OT (just for now) Lamont Lieberman
=== Lamont proposes campaign caps, debates; Lieberman says maybe
Edward M. “Ned” Lamont, the Greenwich Democrat facing U.S. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman in a primary election this summer, on Wednesday challenged the three-term incumbent to agree to a cap on raising and spending money.
Speaking at a news conference at his campaign headquarters in Meriden, the wealthy cable company executive also said he and Lieberman should limit their television commercials and instead travel the state to engage in “some old-fashioned, Lincoln-Douglas debates.”
The challenger’s proposal drew a tepid response from Lieberman’s campaign manager, Sean Smith, who said today that the senator “would consider some type of caps in this race.”=== more at article.
up and down the blocks….
(up and up has no place in a discussion of Lou Dobbs…)
Hugh, you’re English are terrible!
Jane, much canine Karmic love to you and Kobe from my Most Mellow Chow! He says you’re nothing short of heroic, and so is Christy for holding forth with a sick family today. He’s always right about these things. We’re so blessed to be running with the FDL pack!
Kobe, get well soon!!
& meta 36. Who can forget that Venezuala letting families in our impoverished cities have oil at discount. The same ones Lieberman likes to neglect in CT. We have to beg now Joe, happy? http://www.newhavenadvocate.co…..oid:148665
link to music:
http://www.wuga.org/listen_online.html
Go there with a non Mozilla browser.
Gotta run.
Getting hectic in here.
Late Nite Post coming up!
Sharkbabe – re: how are we going to reclaim a halfway civilized nation back
-24/7 American Idle with subliminal messages
We argued on the phone for a long time insisting that the operator register our complaint for low flying planes and respect for 9/11 deceased and survivors. When it became clear that it involved the military she did not want to log the complaint. I suspect that the passengers of the low flying commercial flights are military personnel after time in Iraq that are being given a tour of what their fighting for, as we know by now NYC, 9/11 and Iraq have been used to extremes, and still are.
Thanks TRex I have you on “air” now. Sounds very nice.
Hugh – could you translate this for me?
“We’ll keep the force level there necessary to win,” Bush said.”
katymine 75, that’s what I want to know. where the damn freakin fuck are all these government distrustas/hatas? Chimpy and Dickhead let a couple skyscrapers fall down on purpose, and all these gov hatas become WATB save-me-chimp-daddy bedwetters on a freakin dime. search my house with no warrant? YES! TWICE ON SUNDAYS! restrict my travel? YEAH BUDDY! throw me in jail forever with no charge? FUCK YEAH! USA! USA! govt watch my every move? YES! KICK THE ASS OF TERROR!
katymine @ 74
Are they All ok with the “Bush Agenda” because he is “their” guy?
per last nights thread, the black helicopter/militia types are crawling out from under their rocks w/ the whole immigration thing
as for Chimpy being their guy – uh, not so much – if you have the stomach for some of these Aztlan Rising videos – most of them editorialize about Chimpy selling them out to the ‘mezkins’ – they’re way not happy with “their guy”
“Wij zullen het krachtniveau daar noodzakelijk houden winnen,” ringen gezegd.”
“n�s manteremos o n�vel da for�a l� necess�rio ganhar,” Bush dito.”
“%u043C%u044B %u0431%u0443%u0434%u0435%u043C
%u0434%u0435%u0440%u0436%u0430%u0442%u044C
%u0443%u0440%u043E%u0432%u0435%u043D%u044C
%u0443%u0441%u0438%u043B%u0438%u044F %u0442%u0430%u043C %u043E%u0431%u044F%u0437%u0430%u0442%u0435
%u043B%u044C%u043D%u043E %u0432%u044B
%u0438%u0433%u0440%u0430%u0442%u044C,” bush %u0441%u043A%u0430%u0437%u0430%u043D%u043D%u043E%u0435.”
“%u79C1%u9054%u306F%u305D%u3053%u306B%u4FDD
%u3064%u529B%u306E%u30EC%u30D9%u30EB%u3092
%u52DD%u3064%u306E%u306B%u5FC5%u8981″
%u8A00%u308F%u308C%u305F%u30D6%u30C3%u30B7%u30E5%u3002″
you feelin’ OK, *ilson?
kirk murphy (number?), here in CT, between Sikorsky and New London, I have seen some weird activity, but we also have these helicopters that are called the airmobiles of ill omen because they carry serious accident victims. Hard to tell, especially with bad eyesight. Air traffic from Long Island is much more civil and civilian and predictable and flies higher overhead. I’ll say that much.
“nous maintiendrons le niveau de force l ncessaire de gagner,” Bush dit.”
I’m OK — just babelfishing …
I put *ilson #87 through a translator and it still didn’t make any sense. Seems to be half Dutch and half internetese.
new thread
it was Queen Beatrix’s tongue via Babelfish…
Oh sheisse, d’iu and all that. This browser. Opera.
I dodged the survivalists and the Posse Comitatus guys in Oregon, the white supremacist groups in Idaho and NOW the Minutemen in AZ. Last night I posted links to articles of corruption of Simcox & Gilcest, their taking thousands of dollars in donations with NO IRS filing and no accounting. When those guys are complaining about being treated poorly… ;)
The reason BushCo needs to send the National Guard to the boarder is because the snowbirds who have been camping down there are TOOOO hot to sit out in the sun and bake what little brains they have left. Who else would patrol the AZ boarder with temps 110 ?
I thought the militia groups were listed as Domestic Terrorists groups under Clinton, now it is War Protesters and Quakers. But then I keep forgetting that BushCo makes it owns reality and there is NO logic there and it makes me tilt my head like my beagle does when she wants to be fed……
Jane, I am soooo glad Kobe survived and is doing well. Had to search through posts to get the lastest updates…. Off having fun dodging Tornados in KY.
Thanks guys. I cannot take too much credit. LiberalOasis was all over this one. I was merely able to join in at the right time.
As I wrote in my post today regarding CNN’s response:
To the best of my knowledge, Dobbs himself kept mum on this and didn’t say anything about it on his show. I didn’t see all of today’s edition but I assume it was wall-to-wall “brown invaders” after the Senate passed the immigration bill.
Randi Rhodes must be very disappointed in the Dobbs.
I think some one should keep on Dobbs. If he didn’t issue a on-air explanation/apology for using a CCC graphic, he should. And I think he should be asked to produce some evidence that there is any substantial, or even potentially or imaginably, substantial group of anybody who is in favor of an “Aztlan Reconquista.” I think he should be challenged to do so. And if he can’t, then he should retract that part of the story on air. Since as far as I know or can remember, over 25 year of living right in the middle of Californio Aztlan, and knowing lots of Mecha people, that this is a 99% racist fantasy. Maybe 1% isolated Hispanic separatist loony toon. I wrote an e-mail, I think others should too. Exactly 0% of any Latino or Chicano, or any organization or movement. Anyone disagree, let me hear. I will check back.
“Aztlan Reconquista”: Clearly derived from the Protocols of the Elders of Pedro Gonzales Gonzales.
Lou Dobbs readily admitted that:
On FDL, Jane Hamsher introduced this minor oops as follows:
But there is no lack of Chicano sites from which Lou’s staff could have obtained similar graphics, and it was neither Lou Dobbs nor Michelle Malkin nor the Minutemen nor the KKK who originated and legitimzed the “Aztlan myth.” When I google on “aztlan” only two of the first ten hits could even be classified as “anti-immigration.” One is “alarmist”:
But real biggotry requires sterner stuff.
Maybe people are pissed off at Lou for something else. But to trash someone for something so small and to then make such visibly counterfactual claims is absolutely irresponsible.
Anon #100: You must use a different search than I do. First of all, when I went down the first thirty hits or so, the vast majority were businesses and youth recreation clubs, and new agey spirirual goofinesss and arts organizations. So did you really find many points of comparison in “the first ten hits” The articles I found on cultural history of the Aztlan myth did not have maps showing the southwestern states being split off from the US (for example, the wikipedia article, or the MECha chapter sites I saw). The first two sites with maps or language describing maps like that were in fact alarmist anti-immigration sites
http://www.mayorno.com/
http://www.illegalaliens.us/aztlan.htm
the second one says “amnesty is american genocide”.
Also found were sites that did not have maps but did have alarmist but incorrect translations of he MEChA motto (”por” usually does not mean “for the benefit of” and “fuera” does not mean “not for the benefit of”, or “against”). And other sites that posted unofficial piffle from 30+ year old documents from obscure nutball MEChA chapters or individuals.
So, tell ya what, anon, tell us what search engine you used, and give us some links. I used Yahoo, search “Aztlan”
Sorry fols, there is NO danger of a political movement to split off southwestern states from the US. It’s a white racist myth. Or, anon can tell us which search engine to use, what the search should be and show us the links.
Did a Google search on “Aztlan”, and in addition to first two mentioned above, this site also had that skeeeery map:
http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/AZTLAN.html
Still nothing like in the LaRaza or MEChA groups on first two pages of results. Or maybe it is hiding in the Aztlan services for poor deaf people site I saw. Or the kids afterschool program.
Anyone find different, post search engine, your search, and links here.
I’m all in favour of a hemispheric Shengen agreement – passportless travel between all Nafta countries at the very least. I also favour minimizing violence in politics with a beefed up law against incitements to violence where a link can be proven between speech and violence.
Political traditions that practise violence and hate speech could then be effectively outlawed.
The two big ones are Nazi’s and Marxist/Leninists – both political traditions that are based on violent fascism.
There is a small, but well financed group called , ‘ La voz de Atzlan’ that are practising hate speech and inciting violence. After a couple of convictions then I would not oppose their imprisonment for life under, ‘ three strikes’.
An example could also be made of Bill White whose incitements to violence and hate speech online has already led to a tragic school shooting in Minn and a race riot in Toledo.
Some might oppose any increase in the power of the state as dangerous and that is perfectly understandable after a century where over 100 million innocents were murdered by just three states. To them I suggest that the birth of our power on the freenets and wildnets more than balances this new measure.
These new measures mimic similar laws in Europe against Nazi’s that are already under review for the inclusion of the Marxist/Leninist scum.
No links but sear by keyword and email me if you want. pro2 at NOSPAMoptusnet dot com dot au
When I submit “aztlan” to Google, the first ten entries contain two hits on a hispanic hate group, and a possibly alarmist research paper, but no white biggotry — see copy below. The next ten contained two white alarmist sites, http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/AZTLAN.html and http://www.illegalaliens.us/aztlan.htm, the MEChA homepage, whose first two sentences read:
and finally a link to El Plan itself:
A racial epithet, “gringo”, followed by a “blood-and-land” doctrine reminicent of the propaganda of the Third Reich.
Here is the initial list of ten that I got by googling on “aztlan”:
Drum Major Institute has a fantastic Open Letter to Lou Dobbs circulating.
Ilive in central Oregon, and some group has been carding the Mexicans. Yesterday this group raided a local low-budget Grocery Outlet. I also volunteer at a food bank, and no Mexicans have been coming in for the past few weeks: they are afraid to. Is this going on in other parts of the country too? So much for not denying them humanitarian basic needs.
Three letters, all the same, right in a row %u2014 remind you of anything?
Well, there goes my AAA membership.
Lazy lazy lazy.
CNN does have a research library, do they not?
Just grab any ol’ map from the ‘net. Sad thing is that they’ll probably do it again.
RE: Acronyms…
Next we’ll be hearing that FDR started the National Rifle Association… sigh…
Hurrah for Kobe!
anon #104: sorry late getting back. The issue is whether there is any currently organized or potential, or imaginable, effort to separate the southwestern states from the US. You may find the language in the MEChA document disturbing, and it can be criticized. But it does not mention a separatist movement. And I think you are stretching quite a bit to compare it to the Nazis. The only maps or descriptions of separatist movement I found were in the white extremist sites.