My spouse helped hold the door for jurors returning this morning. He made CNN and local news, well, just in the camera range. LOL

Fox is also breaking away with other news stories while all the rest are analyzing the trial and verdict.

My spouse helped hold the door for jurors returning this morning. He made CNN and local news, well, just in the camera range. LOL

Fox is also breaking away with other news stories while all the rest are analyzing the trial and verdict.

Saw my spouse standing at the door of the courthouse as jurors filed in. He made CNN and local news. LOL

Fox keeps breaking for other news stories while all the rest of the news hounds are analyzing the verdits.

Much of Houston will feel vindicated.

Skilling was acquitted on the insider trading charges. Not remembering the timing of his sales of the top of my head, but I guess the jury bought his story that he wasn’t aware of the imminence of Enron’s collapse when he sold at or around the time that he resigned. Not sure how that worked, though, since the jury also apparently believed that he had been defrauding shareholders about Enron’s true financial condition all along. Hopefully we’ll get some reports on juror feedback.

Saw my spouse standing at the door of the courthouse as jurors filed in. He made CNN and local news. LOL

Fox keeps breaking for other news stories while all the rest of the news hounds are analyzing the verdits.

Much of Houston will feel vindicated.

fitz

Fitz and Justice!

Fox seemed to think american idle was just as important

Culture of corruption indeed. Pass the popcorn!

Fitz, Feingold and firedoglake.

Site went a little funny when all that was happening, the universe must have shifted because justice was done.

New Murray Waas on Rove-Novak Conversation

Also at National Journal is a piece co-written by Waas on the foiling of the NSA investigation.

fitz!

Personally, I liked the “ostrich” jury instruction, that says basically “If you’re in charge, you can’t claim you weren’t aware of the fraud committed by those who work for you if a reasonable person in your position OUGHT to have been aware of what your underlings were doing, or tried to become aware once red flags came up.” My guess is that this is part of why the jury came back relatively fast with its verdict in such a potentially complicated case.

Hmmmm . . . ostrich instruction . . .

Sounds like something that might apply to other problems with “supervision” issues: torture at Gitmo/AG, KBR/Halliburton contracts in Iraq, Katrina, Plamegate, etc.

When we honor Fitz, we honor the *LAW*

Yeah, it’s a curious aquittal given all the other circumstances. But insider trading is a hard one to nail, and there must have been some sort of technicality that did not meet a guilty standard.

All this must not be sinking in because Skilling looked and sounded pretty cool at the microphone. I’m sure he believes he’s going to beat the charges. Fat chance of that happening.

The Decider Divider must be having a tummy ache right about now. Another crook/friend down the tubes.

Wow that is good, long-awaited news that will hopefully do much to reinvest trust in those who think the government just let the crooks get away.

Thanks to everyone for their prayers for Kobe. He is still in the hospital but I flew all night and drove all morning so I could be back home when he came out. I’m still waiting to hear if there is any long-term damage from the attack and he is now without spleen, but I’m told I have enough for both of us so I will be happy to share.

Again, everyone’s prayers for my boy are much appreciated.

Who says rich white men are never convicted… Oh, wait, there is still appeals and the ever popular “overturned on a technicality” or even the pardon party in 2008. But this is exhilarating in the moment!

Welcome back Jane, and glad to hear about Kobe!

Even with your many worries, you still find humor– LOL Jane and the very best wishes for Kobe and hope you get some rest, soon.

Great to have you back in fine form, Jane. Very best wishes for Kobe.

It will be interesting to see what President Bush has to say today, given his past denials regarding his long friendship with Lay. After all, when the Enron scandal first exploded, President Bush on January 10, 2002 offered one of the biggest whoppers of his presidency:

“I got to know Ken Lay when he was the head of the-what they call the Governor’s Business Council in Texas. He was a supporter of Ann Richards in my run in 1994. And she had named him the head of the Governor’s Business Council. And I decided to leave him in place, just for the sake of continuity. And that’s when I first got to know Ken.”

Sadly, a mountain of correspondence between the Bush and Lay suggests otherwise.

For the history, see:
“Bush Lies About Ken Lay.”

Christy and other Legal Eagles,

my first impression was major props to Prosecutors -

I woud think there’s not much more arcane legal discipline than Securites Law and codes

further, around the time of the indictments lots of big guns were talking about how ‘relaxed’ trading & securities rules/laws had become in the preceeding decade - so there was major speculation that the “highly unethical, but not illegal” meme was going to stick with the jury

OTOH, I wouldn’t have waited for change of venue requests - I would’ve immediately headed to a non extradition happy place the second I’d been notified of indictment

I haven’t seen The Smartest Guys in the Room yet - I suspect it fleshes out the whole arrogance thing rather fully

A technical question: when Tyco’s Dennis Kozlowski was found guilty, he had to start serving prison time while awaiting appeals. I like that–he was found guilty, after all. Can that be done also for Skilling and Lay? If not, why not? Thanks.

Digby is doing some SERIOUS panty-sniffing!

Jane, I’m so happy for you and Kobe, you must be just exhausted! He’ll be fine, now. Has he seen you? That will help so much.

Whew, great news, we were very worried for you both.

Hope that Kobe will be ok.

“7th largest corporation in America…”

Hahahahahahahahahahaha…the MSM keep spouting that lame shit. Enron was nothing of the sort. “7th largest” up & goes “poof” one day, and there’s hardly a ripple in the markets? (other than for the suckers left holding the worthless paper).

Enron’s staggering “revenue” was almost entirely fictional. Fictions concocted by the likes of Fastow and Skilling for the simple purpose of defrauding the market.

Hard time for these pukes, I say.

What a relief it must’ve been to see him, Jane! What an ordeal … poor pup.

OT - “President Bush appointed a longtime scholar at the American Enterprise Institute yesterday to be his top domestic policy adviser, a post that has been vacant since February, when Claude A. Allen stepped down after being charged with stealing more than $5,000 in a phony refund scheme.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....49_pf.html

thrilled for ya to get encouraging news Jane !!

At least one of the jurors talked about wanting some reason to find them innocent, and didn’t get any. THere was also mention that the judge is a ‘law and order’ judge, so the sentencing may be equally interesting.

As a Californian, I’m satisfied.

Good news on all fronts.

Those guys are such slime balls. All the employees who lost everything because of those excessive freaks.

Jane, glad to hear about your Kobe boy.

Justice will out.

The energy of the response to Pach’s previous thread posting–whether Swiftian or ambiguous–should tell the Rove/WHIG/pundit/press pantysniffers that in the words of Capt. Kirk, “We have had enough of you.”

We’ve made clear the gauntlet’s down. Oh, and we can multitask…like moving on to talk about the sublime beauty of the U.S. Judicial System working its uncorrupted way through.

E Pluribus Unum

I still think the DEMS never successful tied Bush to Enron…

During the 2000 presidential campaign…Lay and Enron flew Bush to 12 separate campaign events onboard Enron owned or chartered aircraft….

Enron forced employees to give Bush the max $2000 contribution

and Lay personally contributed over 100k to Repub candiadates

On CNBC: Sentencing on Sept. 11

Wonder if Lay and Skilling are channeling Morrissette this morning:

Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?
A little too ironic…and yeah, I really do think…

Everything changed after 9/11.

“…there’s not much more arcane legal discipline than Securites Law and codes”
_____

Well, there’s also not much more simple than THIS:

You create bunch of wholly-owned subsidiaries who then endlessly trade back & forth “contracts” (mostly for future delivery of various commodities you don’t even actually own). You book the face dollar valus amount of each “trade” as “revenue” to Enron. You keep doing this shit till the financial press spooges all over about this miraculous “7th largest U.S. corporation” (in terms of this fictional “revenue,” not actual hard capital assets). Investors, individual and institutional, eager to get in on the ride to the money moon, trample each other a la crazed Xmas Wal-Mart Cabbage Patch Doll shoppers.

Then, one day it all goes “poof”.

The very essense of simplicity.

Maybe we will be able to write Kenny in jail…suggestions for his prison pen-name?….complete with e-mail address?

Ken Lays statement: “Obviously i am dissapointed but i guess that is the way the system works.”

Now he “gets” it!

“There’s a little bit of choreography going on here before they bring Ken Lay out,” says the CNBC talking head in front of the courthouse.

Imagine that. They’re probably trying to ice down the bags under his eyes and get his puffy nose powdered before they bring Dubya’s buddy out in front of the cameras.

“We’ve been told it’ll be another hour before they bring him out to make a statement,” continues the talking head.

Wow. He must be in sad shape; maybe they’re waiting for the meds to kick in.

1,161 DAYS AND THE KILLIN GOES ON AND ON AND…

Fitz, Feingold,LamonT…OH MY!!!

The wheels are comin off so many a the buses in DC that a yellow alert has been issued for pedestrians. Let us celebrate but not take our eyes offa the prize…there is so much goin on simulteneously that we gotta keep our powder dry and sit back and watch a bit…like with the Hillbill sex smear.

PACH: you go guy…run that playbook but remember, this is jest one series of downs in a VERY long game. Don’t getcher players too tired or hurt before crunch time.

KEEP THE FAITH, PASS THE AMMUNITION BUT HOLD YER FIRE AND LET ‘EM KILL EACH OTHER OFF!!!

Prairie Sunshine @ 33–re E Pluribus Unum, always liked the double meaning of EPU on this blog.

Was it puppethead who came up with the phrase “open source think tank”? Out of the many, one, indeed.

Guilty verdicts! Finally a blow for justice. Take note George, Karl, and withering Dick. “Kenny Boy” might just forebode for ya’ll. You guys are on ‘the list’ too. We’re coming for you… Take note Bush mob.

Waas:

“On September 29, 2003, three days after it became known that the CIA had asked the Justice Department to investigate who leaked the name of covert CIA officer Valerie Plame, columnist Robert Novak telephoned White House senior adviser Karl Rove to assure Rove that he would protect him from being harmed by the investigation, according to people with firsthand knowledge of the federal grand jury testimony of both men.

I think this is news.

The site went down for about 15 minutes for me - a little preview of performance for whenever Fitz makes his next big move?

I made these notes while listening in on cable news channgels, FWIW:

I heard Mike Allen of Time say on Fox: “This is great news for the President. It shows that no matter how close someone gets with those in power, the system works.” (slight paraphrase)

So Mike, conversely speaking, does that mean if Lay had been found not guilty it would have been bad for the President? Aside: Has Allen always been a wingnut shill or am I just now noticing it?

OxyRush’s current or former girlfriend on CCN w/Toobin: Is it true that most federal cases end in convicton?
Toobin: Yes, over 90%
OxyRush’s GF: How can that be? Isn’t that …?
Toobin: No, that’s good! We don’t want the federal government indicting 1000’s of individuals only to have them found innocent.

Back to Mike Allen, shilling on Fox: So Mikey, if it’s such great news for Bush, why did Fox cut away from this huge important positve story for him when CNN and MSNBC continues on the story?

My keyboard is now awash with vomitous particles.

I’ve got to work for a living now. Thank you all for your comments and posts on the latest panty-sniffin-swift-boating-rat-fucking efforts by the usual suspects. I’ll chime in more when time allows.

Jane, so relieved to hear that Kobe is still among us.

YEAH for Kobe. I can’t believe you are joking after that kind of a night Jane!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Way overdue acknowlegement - just got through Christy’s post on the Foundation awards to Murth and Mora — great read. Everytime I get too discouraged, I pull out the New Yorker article on Mora.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I hope this guy is in something of the same mold and this isn’t just the military acting as another GWB spin cycle.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12972552/

Marine to go to Iraq to “reinforce” Marine values.

To highlight his concern over recent allegations that Marines in Iraq killed civilians, including women and children, the service commandant said Thursday he will go there to reinforce the values and standards of behavior that Marines are trained to uphold in combat.

“To a Marine, honor is more than just honesty; it means having uncompromising personal integrity and being accountable for all actions,” Marine Gen. Michael W. Hagee wrote in a lengthy statement issued by his office.

I hope Hagee’s the real deal. It has made me so sad to see what Sanchez and Miller and Franks have wrought under Rumsfeld, Cambone, Haynes, Cheney, GWB et al. Apparently these days “accountable” means “able to line up a spare DOJ lawyer to claim state secrets” or, alternatively, “able to establish a nice fat account from lobbying or Board of Directors or speaking engagement fees while the military is turned into a cheap whore.” If the Marines take a stand apart and away, as Mora had the Navy guys do at GITMO, they can still salvage. Or, they can spin. The budget is big enough for tutus and toe shoes, it just won’t be a pretty site to see Generals staging Swansong Lake.

Hoping and praying for the real deal who draws that right and wrong line sharp and clear.

Lieberman finally gets an endorsement … from John McCain

I just love the example this portrays– the 2 top dogs go to jail — are you wChimpy and Deadeye?

Whoa, Murray Waas’ latest is great. Looks like Novak is falling on the sword to protect his buddy Karl.

BobbyG (36) — ah, and then there’s the document trail, where all those wholly-owned subsidiaries had to have signatures of officers and directors in order to file Articles of Incorporation and Corporate Charters and corporate minutes…very, very simple.

I’ve never understood why it took so long to get to this point, because it was a really simple story. Hell, Martha Stewart’s case was more complex.

watching, not w

Oh Bobby G,

don’t disagree with you, was just initially concerned the arcane nature of the subject matter, coupled with fast and loose trading rules would lessen the chances for conviction

some of the deals set up by Skilling were ‘legal’ - appalling but legal

then again, why any Atty half awake allowed this trial to go forward in Houston, or these two aren’t counting their money somewhere in Paraguay is waaay beyond me

EPU’d from previous thread:

“Mmmmm…Karl.”

“You create bunch of wholly-owned subsidiaries who then endlessly trade back & forth “contracts.”

Ah, but the genius was designing a structure such that the “subsidiaries” appeared to be independent entities that were not controlled by Enron. Glad the jury saw through it.

egregious (40) — “open source think tank” might have been me, been advocating setting up one virtually and in real-life.

Everyone of us brings something to the table, even if it is as simple as saying, No, I don’t understand this so that a concept is re-vetted and re-validated. We all of us are co-equals in this direct representation democracy.

EPU. E Pluribus Unum. (EPU, you so need a couple of tattoos…a little devil on one side with Evil Parallel Universe, and a little cherub on the other saying, E Pluribus Unum. Maybe I’ll have to whip up some temporary stick-on tattoos…)

Christy and Jane, you should check out the Murray Waas article soon, it’s talking about conversations between Rove and Novak a few days after the investigation started and quotes new sources with some interesting info. Murray does it again.

(I told my cat, Zoey about Kobe and now she won’t get off my lap. She’s grieving, I think)

So it looks like Murray is saying that Novak lied for Rove, that they almost certainly plotted it together on the phone, and that they’re going to get away with it because the burden of proof is too high for a conversation between two people and neither one of them is going to crack.

So I guess Kenny & Jeff will have to surrender their “smartest guys in the room” trophy to Bobby and Karl.

The whole thing makes me sick.

What effect is the guilty verdict going to have on Ken Lay’s marriage? Is there a divorce in the picture? Actually I don’t even know his marital status, but I guess we can count on the New York Times to tell us.

On a more serious note, how many Bush Pioneers, or whatever they call their big fundraisers, have been indicted or convicted of crimes? I believe both Lay and Jack Abramoff are in that group. Are there others? Does raising $100,000 for the Bush campaign qualify one for a pardon?

A long time friend of mine once interviewed for a QA position with Enron. The interviewer posed a scenario for him, something about “we have a major new software deal about to be finalized with a large institutional client. But, internally, we now know that the product has critical flaws. What do you, as QA manager, do?”

John replied that he would order a suspension of the deal until the flaws could be fixed.

The interviewer responded “oh, you could never work here.”

John immediately decided that he didn’t want to anyway.

Enron was simply one large white collar criminal enterprise.

OT - Waas has been busy. There is also an article that suggests that Gonzales is behind the denial of clearances for OPR to investigate the legal decisions regarding the NSA surveillance program.

http://news.nationaljournal.co.....525nj2.htm

“Representative Hinchey has drafted a resolution of inquiry requesting that Bush, Gonzales, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld turn over documents relating to the OPR investigation’s closure and the denial of security clearances. The resolution asks for “telephone and electronic-mail records, logs and calendars, personnel records, and records of internal discussions.” Hinchey said he planned to get other members of Congress to sign on to the resolution this week.”

I think we should all contact our congressional reps to raise the visibilty of this resolution and make sure they sign on.

Yo Bush, Rove and Dickster. Did ya see the news? We’re gonna give you guys a trial. And then we’re going to hang ya! Houston style.

Obsessed @ 10:07 a.m.

“Lieberman finally gets an endorsement %u2026 from John McCain”

As I said last night, this is just what Connecticut Democrats need: a prominent Republican to tell them who should represent their party in the Senate race.

When we talk about Ken Lay, we must remember to do this.

Kenneth Lay, George Bush’s biggest campaign contributor,……….

it’s been what almost an hour since the verdict and I’ve yet to hear

Indicted Long Time Bush Supporter Ken Lay…

funny that b/c for a long time I thought Marc Rich’s full name was Disgraced Fugitive Clinton Supporter Marc Rich

Ken Lay the newest Republican added to Bush’s list for pardons.

New Waas - Novak may have tried to cover for Rove :

http://news.nationaljournal.co.....525nj1.htm

Obsessed-44:

In the rawstory Lieberman endorsement piece, McCain demonstrates that he sucks on the teat of the Republican talking points mothership*:

“I know that Joe still holds fast to Democrat Party principles.”

It’s the Democratic Party. Maverick my ass.

*no disrespect intended to mothers, or motherships for that matter!

Darkblack, I now start giggling before I’ve even clicked your links.

OT, Rep Norwood (Ga) on radio saying he doesn’t care what Frist thinks, or the president, they’re not passing a bill with “amnesty”, period. Very crusty. “you can paint it pink, but it’s still amnesty”.

Don’t automatically assume Murray’s piece means they get off, remember this is very third hand and doesn’t take into account the multitude of things Fitz knows that DOES NOT LEAK.

Peterr @9:36 - these days, I worry about the “reasonableness” standard. Some of the reasonableness I hear makes my jaw drop.

Jane, I spent the night hugging the commode (no, not the 14th century chest of drawers, the other kind) with my own stomache pains and thought of you and Kobe. Glad he’s out of the woods.

Enron news is good news. Lay’s PR people papered the world with oh, poor KennyBoy had no idea those mean nasty people were doing anything wrong, awwww, it’s not his fault and I was afraid it would be effective.

California thanks you, jurors.

President Bush appointed a longtime scholar at the American Enterprise Institute

Scholar? American Enterprise Institute? Isn’t that an oxymoron? Or is it just a regular grade moron?

Looks to me as if Fitz gave Novak immunity in exchange for his GJ testiomy. Now, one issue becomes was Novak’s testimony a lie?

Jane:
All good thoughts for Kobe.
Our animal friends are very important.
Divine comfort, friendship, and responsibility.
Good luck with the big guy.

Living through the cali blackouts, having the gropanator as governor instead of Davis, paying through the nose for electricity, I hope those bastards rot in prison for life.

Of course, it will be a federal pen with tennis courts, TVs, weekend conjugal visits, etc, and they will go only after years of appeals or until their ill-gotton gain runs dry.

Maybe they will share a sell with the Duke.

Hi All,

Just catching up. Jane, thoughts and good vibes to you and Kobe.

I hope they both do lots of hard time. They stole a lot of working people’s money. If someone broke into a home and took 1/1000th as much, they’d be locked away for YEARS.

OT- did anyone get a chance to digest the new Murray Waas yet? Interesting. Especially given that Novak is supposed to have been fully cooperative since the beginning. If he’s Rove’s firewall, what next>?

I’m sure my reading is superficial and you all will enlighten me very soon.

The multiple shell corporations and holding companies were legal — it was the “mark to market” accounting practices that were fraudulent. Revenues are not profits, and contracts are not revenues.

I’m glad Jane is back in time for Kobe coming out from anesthesia. There wasn’t a damn thing Jane could do medically but the poor pup needs mental and social support right now — and that’s Jane’s expertise! All is working out after all it seems . . .

Congratulations Firedoglake posters

Here we are at comment #66 (or thereabouts) and there hasn’t been one LAME reference to Lay and Skilling becoming someone’s girlfriend in prison!

Thanks!

Jane,

Positive vibes for Kobe.

and may Lay and Skilling spend their final years in fleabag SROs with no heat.

neurophius (55) — excellent question, really; I remember attending a professional event with an attorney as keynote, who was counseling on risk mitigation. Tips included putting assets in the spouse’s name and preparing for divorce if things got ugly to preserve some of the assets.

But Bill and Hill having autonomous lives is somehow different. Gah.

OT but in my comment # 104 in the How Can You Help? thread from yesterday,

why didn’t someone dope slap me? Glenn’s book’s title is How Would a Patriot Act?, NOT - What Would a Patriot Do?

LOL at myself… I’m glad I can find humor somewhere in these dark days (of course also here at the lake). But honestly everyone , thank you for your gracious kindness but next time whack me off the side of the head.

Sorry Glenn!

JANE, Glad you are back…I hope Kobe does GREAT….so…according to Murray, Rover and Novacula got together to make a nice story………Would I like to see Novacula end up in the cell next to Rover….Fitz must have to wear nose clips to wade throught the crap and stench of these LONG TIME criminals.

Darkblack - clean keyboard this time,as I saw it was you before clicking. All hail darkblack.

I know it’s been mentioned, but this new Murray Waas piece on Novak and Rove is fucking huge.

So- who leaked the testimony of the Novak/Rove phone conversation, and why?

The Waas article on Abu Gonzalez is very damning…Alot of stuff going on…Wouldn’t it be nice to have a Fitz present tomm…even if it is a small one?

McNulty praising the Preznit for his support in prosecuting the Enron case.(heh) Speaks about accountability for corruption.

Hopefully we will have some accountability moments for the admin. soon.

ewwwe, darkblack!

We all knew Novacula was lying for Rover……I am glad to finally see it in print, and from someone with the integrity as Waas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1,161 DAYS AND THE KILLING GOES ON AND ON AND…

ccmask: What a great idea “…Ken Lay, largest individual contributor to George W. Bush’s 2000 campaign….”

Now I hope the Democrats in California can pick up the ball and tatoo Ken Lay and Enron to the forehead of the Austrian Nazi…it doesn’t matter who runs against that steroid-fried fascist, if done right by the Democrats in California, it could kill the Republican Party in that state for 20 years.

Democrats accross the country must start recyclin the ENRON scandal in every district…no Republican anywhere can avoid the toxic fallout from this one.

KEEP THE FAITH AND CHOSE YER TARGETS CAREFULLY, THEY AREN’T COMIN OUT ONE ATTA TIME!!!

Novak’s looking at a fat promotion over there at fox.

Yay Kobe!

Eat it, Kenny Boy! And an extra kick in the ass from Grandma Millie!

OT - david paulison - made mistakes on his tax returns - promises to re-file and pay all penalties

Hurricane season is six days away, do u know where your levees are?

It sure smells like conspiracy…

I will never forget Novak storming off the set– now he’s at Faux. the video here for any other sentimentalists:

>>>>>>>>
http://mediamatters.org/items/200508040004

#81: I was wondering the same thing. The piece only quotes Rove’s tattling on Novak, and has nothing about Novak’s testimony. Does that mean the motive for leaking is to show how Rove is cooperating? How does Novak feel about that, I wonder?

ck (72) — it was the establishment of those shells for the purposes of illegally recording certain transactions that was at issue; the shells weren’t strictly illegal, but it was conspiracy to do so.

And frankly, there still may be another opportunity for prosecution right there, depending on the jurisdiction in which those shells were created; Caymans may not be as strict, but Bahamas might be, in regards to the establishment of Bahamian-licensed shells for fraudulent purposes.

For an insightful view of the Enron trail from a local attorney/blogger in Houston, I highly recommend Tom Kirkendall’s blog — blog.kir.com.

For his specific summaries of the Enron trial, see these posts.

The crowd here at FDL may not agree with Tom’s poltical leanings, but in my humble opinion the analysis stands on its own and is worth checking out.

Abe

So, Bush’s biggest patron has been convicted on all six counts — and is awaiting sentencing on Sept. 11? Please excuse my hanging chad-enfreude.

further, around the time of the indictments lots of big guns were talking about how ‘relaxed’ trading & securities rules/laws had become in the preceeding decade - so there was major speculation that the “highly unethical, but not illegal” meme was going to stick with the jury

OTOH, I wouldn’t have waited for change of venue requests - I would’ve immediately headed to a non extradition happy place the second I’d been notified of indictment

1. Although securities, accounting and tax law are complicated, fraud in and of itself is a simple concept and most people (i.e. the jury) know it when they see it. It is “fun” for lawyers to debate the arcana of the law both inside and outside the court room, but it is almost always to no avail.

2. Acquittal on some charges. My personal view is that on multi count indictments, and these were MULTI-count indictments, the jury, after convicting on the “larger” crimes gets bored, and, feeling that justice has already been served by their earlier guilty votes on numerous counts, sorta just stops. Maybe the evidence really wasn’t there, but it is just as likely that the jury was tired at that point and thought they had done enough.

Hey Christy, got a legal question: we’re looking at multiple counts here in the Enron situation. At what point would RICO apply?

Jane — glad you’re home safe for your pup. Been afraid to mention it for fear of jinxing, but this day has so far been jinx free.

Great to see these guys get whats coming to them,they damn shure screwed enough people over.

Rove and Novak-

Man, they weren’t dumb. They just cooked their stories under oath. No wonder Fitz said sand was kicked in his eyes–hell they’ve tried to bury him in shit.

We will really need patience and hope for justice to be done with Rove and the crew. I for one am taking myself off of Fitz watch for a while and will practice patience.

Add to your prayers today a prayer for justice.

I think Lay was actually convicted on 10 counts. Skilling convicted of 19.

Couldn’t have happened to better guys.

Skilling’s reaction to the verdict (the radio version, anyway) didn’t do much to convince me that he’s NOT a psychopath.

CNBC talking head says that members of the Lay family are still convened in the courthouse and have ordered lunch, are working on their statement to the press; they will be in the courthouse until after three o’clock.

Jeepers, they really did suffer from hubris, to have absolutely nothing prepared in the way of a statement in the event of a conviction.

Good news. If anyone deserves to spend the rest of their lives in jail for white collar crime, it’s these two. Big thank you to the jurors for seeing this through.

Stewart/Colbert ‘08

Waas:

Rove had been one of the “two senior administration” officials who had been sources for the July 14, 2003, column in which Novak outed Plame as an “agency operative.” Rove and Novak had talked about Plame on July 9, five days before Novak’s column was published.

Help me out, was this previously known?

Dan Froomkin has a new post up discussing the latest on Plamegate, especially the Cheney involvement http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00879.html

On the indicted fleeing. They rarely do. In the white collar criminal context I think it is b/c they continue to believe their bullshit (even after the guilty verdicts are read); Skillings demeanor is fairly common. Hey, they’re criminals, remember that. Plus, he can always hope to win on appeal, and I am sure he thinks he has a chance. I’ve said before I’ve always been amazed at the equinimity of people under investigation and during trial, the amazement continues after conviction.

Jane,

Good to hear about Kobe; hope he continues to pull through.

We’ll be waiting to celebrate, with a round of pumpkin loaf for everyone…

Would you really want this man to campaign for you?

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/06.....3a40/print

What’s their respective exposure re prison time? The likely sentence? Redd?

good grief– that is one ugly picture kristinejoy.

kristinejoy 108 - at least Dickbeast appears to be awake in that one.

I wonder if both men smirked at the ‘convictions’, assured as they are of Dubya pardons in 2008? Is there any way to preempt the pardons that are coming down the pike? Doesn’t it seem likely that Friends of Dubya count on simply buying time in the face of any legal entanglements? Might it serve the public, who hope to observe the responsible application of justice, for the media to start asking, at every opportunity, “Mr. President, If you successfully make it to the end of your term in office, will you extend presidential pardons to Mr. Lay? Mr. Skilling? Mr. DeLay? Mr. Libby? Mr. Abramoff? Mr. Safavian? Mr. Cheney? “
It’s never too early to find out.

Late to the party - just caught the news as I was headed out of the office for lunch.

Three cheers for the prosecutorial team. While the underlying basic concepts of fraud, etc. are easy enough for most people to understand, it was not an easy task to untangle and explain, in understandable terms, the complicated series of inter-connected transactions and events that added up to fraud. Many an ordinary juror has glazed over and mentally bailed on cases of Enron-type dealings, and ended up voting to acquit as a direct result of either not understanding, or misunderstanding the prosecution’s case.

I don’t know anyone who lost everything in the Enron collapse, but I’m happy for those who did that they have gotten some justice today; I’m sure they are anxious for the punishment phase to start.

Am anxious to get Christy’s take on the latest Libby docs, and hoping that Fiona and Mr. ReddHedd are feeling better. When my older daughter was a toddler, my husband looked at me rather plaintively one day and asked if I thought we would ever be healthy again. I seemed to have special mommy immunity, but he picked up every last bug our daughter brought home from pre-school. And sorry, guys, but you all make terrible patients. :-)

wtfwjd? says:
May 25th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Waas:

Rove had been one of the “two senior administration” officials who had been sources for the July 14, 2003, column in which Novak outed Plame as an “agency operative.” Rove and Novak had talked about Plame on July 9, five days before Novak’s column was published.

Help me out, was this previously known?
———————————————————-
Yes. He was Novak’s second source. We still don’t know who the first one was.

Amilius - I don’t think there is a chance in hell that either Lay or Skilling receive pardons from Chimpy.

Their been “smirkers” their whole lives, don’t have any other affect, so that is what they do. It is fairly common behavior by convicted defendants.

On CNBC: SEC Task Force giving presser outside courthouse –

“…no matter how rich, they must play by the rules…”

“…did it by not asking the hard questions, did it by not asking the easy questions…CEO’s can’t hide behind accountants…”

Cutting away to Sens. Sarbanes and Oxley in Washington DC in re: SOX impact.

Good God, why can’t this same kind of action and reaction happen in regards to spying on citizens and leaking about CIA operatives?

A couple of threads down I was venting about how the rethug crooks ALWAYS invoke their damn religion whenever they are caought with their hands in the cookie jar or their pants down around their knees.

Well it certainly did not take long in this one:

Lay in Prayer

Jeffrey K. Skilling and his lawyer, Dan Petrocelli, emerged from the court house and briefly addressed the media shortly after the verdict.

But Kenneth L. Lay has yet to emerge. CNBC reported a few minutes ago that Lay and his family, as well as his lawyers and much of the Lay team, had joined hands in a circle of prayer, along with Lay’s longtime pastor, Stephen Wende, inside the court house.

Lay had said all along that the verdict was in God’s hands.

The appeal PR campaign has begun!

twolf1 @ 10:49 am (#103) - The most compelling slate since Bill and Opus.

Re: the murray Waas Novack/Rove piece.

Did you notice the quote from the long time friend of Rove’s about how as long as neither Rove nor Novack crack, FItz can’t prove a thing about the phone call?

Talk about sending a message!!! More Aspens connected at the roots!!

And let’s take a step back from the “Novack’s been cooperating all along”. How do we know that? Waas says that Novack testified, and he may have testified w/o requiring a subpeopna, so that could be cons