Well Fitz

Feingold!

Colbert! Murtha! Roots!

Fitz

I love this site. I gave Ned and others from here. Coverage on so many issues is great. BUT it sometimes seems you want to fight every single thing the Admin does. I think it is better to choose battles, and I don’t think Hayden was worth a fight, which almost certainly could not be won. Clemons thinks he’s in Rummy’s face, which would be good.
The wire tapping is serious, and some good questions were asked of Hayden, but the way to attach that issue is not through this nomination, IMHO.

I live in California and I’m desperate for a Democratic candidate to run against Dianne Feinstein. I would vote against her if the opposition was at all reasonable. She’s a total sell-out and wimp.

BTW, I might be cranky, but I’m really sick of the content-free comments like numbers 1-4. I think you’d do most readers a service if you would delete such chaff.

They are a** kissing people pleasers, rather than people who show leadership for an agenda

I couldn’t agree more Jane.
Dems don’t get it, they are stuck with Hayden now. When he does Bush’s bidding, as he surely will, and it blows up, as it always does, GOP will point to this vote and say 9 Dems voted for him too.
Mehlman is already lining up to blame the Democrats for high fuel prices.
RNC’s Mehlman Warns of $3.75 Gas with Democrats

#5 Blackwatch says

… BUT it sometimes seems you want to fight every single thing the Admin does. I think it is better to choose battles, …

i agree, the rape-public-con’s wanted this to devolve into a fight . . . hey hoped for a diversion and did not get one.

that said frakenFEINstein is a monstrous war profiteer . . .

man have we work to do!!!

ROOTS!!!!!!!!!!!

LeisureGuy!

I think this gets at what I was trying to say in the Crashing the Gate thread. These people are way beyond the point where subtle messages are of use. They need a severe asskicking.

For God’s sake Jefferson just refused to leave his comittee post. They are in the final stages of uselessitis.

If we want change clearing the decks is a darn good place to start (with as before a couple notable exceptions).

Jane Harman demonstrates that the only thing that will wake these people up is primary challenges.

Anyway, here’s the narrative for the 06 elections: The Republicans out-spend the Dems 4-1 in the elections. They unleash a firestorm of negative ads. The Dems cower and grovel and whimper that they really aren’t so bad. The disgusted voters say, A plague on all your houses, and stay home.

The day after the Dems fail to gain either house, Immanuel and Schumer ask for the head of Howard Dean.

Oh yeah, Brown fails to unseat Dewine, but polls show that Hackett would have walked it.

See everyone in 08.

If we aren’t under martial law by then.

Thank you Jane for this post. It’s sad to see really, and it just makes what you, Redd and the rest of this community are doing that more important.

I’m thankful the internet is around now to keep tabs on these idiots, and to encourage people to take action.

Serving notice with Lamont defeating Liberman will show people like DiFi that they really do have feet of clay, and with a collective whack of the progressive community, they will go down.

Yeah,I’m rather disappointed in Sen.Mikulski too,but rather than burning down the house how can we reassure them that its safe to stand up for whats right.Granted I’d prefer a safe be damned,right is right approach,but we are talking about polititions here,not evreyone can be Russ Feingold(we can wish,though).
I do hate working hard only to feel ’sold out’ buy our leaders.

Thanks Jane and absolutely it is about leadership… makes you wonder, really wonder what they are thinking. No phase 2, the FCC can’t investigate, Congress won’t investigate; I could understand it if there was transparency but there is none. He wears the uniform and followed orders from the CIC– never read the law according to his own testimony and trusted the administrations lawyers. He violated his oath to uphold the Constitution and does not even understand the 4th amendment. If ever there was a time for a filibuster, now is the time. The dems did a disgusting thing by giving him a pass.

Well, since there will be no other investigation of this issue because Specter has ( again) caved to the WH, where will further information about it come from which will satisfy the public that they are safe from prying eyes? To me, this was just like Alito in terms of the seriousness of the vote and the potential outcomes. Hayden at CIA just closes the door on further information and puts another “Yes Man” in Bush’s pocket. I have already written DiFi to express my outrage and to the no’s to say good for you.

I couldnt disagree more with you, Blackwatch. I strenuously object to the NSA program, to further infrigement of my rights with no pushback, and am disgusted with these Dems who are willing to give our constitution to the Bushies to be stomped on at will in the name of terror, terror, 9/11. There should have been a vote along party lines and it should have come with speeches. I am so disappointed in Jay Rockefeller and again, so happy Russ is there.

Like it or not, Presidents usually get the people they want to run various agencies. As long as the people aren’t just stupid incompetent it’s going to be that way. If you all want to complain then complain about george bush…..not the dems on the committee. bush picks these people, not the dems.

Apparently dems have made a strategic decision not to oppose Clusterfuck’s illegal spying prior to the elections.

I’m not sure if this is wise either politically or constitutionally- but they’re too far down that road to turn back now- so I hope it works out politically at least. We’ll see.

Leisureguy (7):

Scroll feature, learn it, love it, use it.

This post perfectly illustrates my often made point why WE. SHOULD. NOT. continue to support any democrat– no matter who the fuck they are– that betrays bedrock american principles.

It only enables and emboldens them to continue to bitch slap the rule of law… the constitution and us.

LeisureGuy says:
May 24th, 2006 at 1:14 pm

I brought this up the other day and had Fernald recommended to me. Beats voting for DinoFi.

And the opening comments are traditional. You don’t mess with tradtions, no matter how silly (think of “Groundhog Day”).

OT – Thinkprogress has a funny post up about Tom “hammer-time” DeLay’s use of a Colbert interview as a defense against his critics.

Apparently the people at DeLay’s legal fund think that Colbert is actually a conservative. Or maybe they’re just that desperate for supporters.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/24/delay-colbert/

methinks we give fellow human beings far too much credit
there are what, 1% of us that care enough to be active, watchful…
the rest are complacent and hope everything goes away if it is bad, or
leads directly to them if it is good. simple, 5 year old values sums them up.
now we have been complacent long enough to see the government of mussolini and hitler become a role model for power in DC. we have no more rights, but few people know how much has been lost.
our congress is soiling themselves yet again to do what they are told by the fascists, can’t piss on themselves fast enough.

this possible conclusion awaits; since congress doesn’t care and won’t act on any accountability issue, they are a party to the crime, and can never be trusted. they are handing the knife to the butcher to remove their own testicles, and smiling thankfully as the deed is done. we will never have a chance with any of the ones that have voted with the criminals, because it shows they have no cojones at all, they were sacrificed long ago. as long as your neighbors are happy with this, it will continue.

so, we get what we deserve, and now we are lost. we can stand up daily and bemoan yet another freedom vanish, but as long as the sheep don’t care, it isn’t important enough for a poll. and if it isn’t in a poll, the elected could care less about you and yours. they are far to busy thinking about what is theirs, and how they can get just a little bit more

Problem is we’re liberal/progressive and they’re Centrist/Democrats and staying in the middle works dammit! Ask From and Witman and Begala, they never find the scruffy hippy deadheads at any of their get togethers, who wants to get blacklisted from this summers East Hampton lawn party list? Not Centrists.

Hey LeisureGuy there’s nothing wrong with content free, why look at all the empty suits that voted for Hayden.

Our Fitzing is like a cleansing breath.
It is not wasted space, but a sacred space.
Use the scroll.

OT– watching cnn and they announced that Blair/Bush are having a presser tomorrow eve. Lemmeseehere, John Howard, Olmert and Blair– his best buds circling the wagons with him? ah, the smell of desperation.

Blackwatch, that looks like something, I wrote when I started reading FDL in September.
This is about the separation of powers. “Separation of powers” is code for NOT A Monarchy.
Blackwatch, Judge Bork, the original “strict constructionist,” should be blasting away at the destruction of the 4th Amendment. Instead he’s on Wingnut welfare at the Hudson Institute with IRVING Libby. They are paying Bork not to talk, and he likes the money more than he likes the Constitution.
Please keep reading FDL. If Jane or Christy hold someone accountable, you can bet your last nickel, they deserve it. If Jane or Christy think they are wrong, or the person deserves a second chance, they are quick to post about it. See a post Jane post giving Michael “hechuva job Brownie” Brown another chance, after he started telling the truth.

Blackwatch at 5 –

I am close to agreeing with you, especially given this administration’s record on appointments. If they blocked him I can imagine Bush appointing someone a lot worse just out of spite. At least he has the respect of much of the intelligence community from what I can gather. However, I can’t really get over the fact that he seems to behind the NSA surveillance programs. If he can be persuaded to act in such legal circumventions (if not outright illegalites) at NSA, what about as head of the CIA. There is a lot of opportunity for serious international problems if he goes along with this administration in their legal interpretations.

I all ready emailed Levin, who is my senator, telling him how angry his vote made me and begging him to not “become a Joe Leiberman” on the Michigan citizens (moi included). This is the third vote he’s cast over the last year that just screamed “I am NOT a Democrat!”
I also asked him to please read the book delivered by “me and a couple thousand of my friends” yesterday.
I worked so hard in the 1960’s and 70’s – and here I am again.

angie 26 – that’s not desperation you smell, that’s the snoring cheney’s halitosis.

Ok, so how about we build momentum in California to send Dianne Feinstein a message? The primary is June 6th. She has two challengers, but the Dem party has officially endorsed her (how come? shouldn’t the party itself be neutral in its own primary??). But maybe the netroots can pick one of the challengers to get behind? If that challenger picks up (say) 10-20% of the vote, that’d be a strong message to Feinstein, wouldn’t it?

So how about it?

Here’s my little dose of FDL wierdness:

When I click on a link that’s embedded, read it, then come back via my “back” arrow (Firefox), I return, not to the place I was in the comments, but the place before my last refresh. Very strange.

Oh, let’s not get too picky and unreasonable and uncivil with the Democrats.

Remember…they are keeping their powder dry.

Maybe they’re saving that powder as a negotiating chip when the rapture comes.

In the meantime, I’ve unsubscribed from all their email lists, I send snotty letters back in all the self-addressed-stamped-envelopes they send me every week asking for money, I tell the phone callers that not only do they not get a freakin’ penny but that I want off their lists and when they whine I tell them you show me yours and THEN I’ll show you mine, I have attended my last fundraiser for any Democrat (unless Feingold appears in my god-forsaken part of the US), and not to put too fine a point on it, not only have I washed my hands of them, I’ve also washed them all right outta my hair.

Re: Cheney’s halitosis- I’ve seen thoughts that his smelly burps and bad breath are caused by fish oil he takes for his heart (unsubstantiated). (but very possible)

No news on Fitzy and the grand jury apparently– guess the frogmarch watch will be on again Friday. This is getting stressful Fitzy- DO SOMETHING!

well I sent my faxes to both the good senators and the bad senators yesterday

’tis a shame the incredible resource that is Cindy Sheehan isn’t being marshalled or utilized better (No I’m not flamin’ Cindy) I’d have positioned her to at least scare Feinstein with serious talk of a run – DiFi is flirting with Lieberman territory – disgusting !

TeddySF – worked for her campaign in 92, so difficult now to remember that candidate, and that incredible high to send two women to the Senate in one night – of course, it was the same night so many of us were pleased to have a new first lady with our values – sigh

It amazes me and I wonder why I even care anymore.

In 2006, if angry conservatives sit out the election, how would the GOP react? They would move so far to the right that they would make Bush look like Ghandi.

Now, say we on the left sat out in 2006 or another year? How would the democrats react?They would move so far to the right that they would make Bush look like Ghandi.

Screw these idiots, cowards, and simpering fools.

What is really scary is that Justice Stevens (dissent in B*sh v. Gore) is 86 years old, Ruth Ginsberg is in her 70’s battling cancer and I belive Steven Breyer is pushing 70 – I would hate to have DINO’s like DiFi give another free pass to a right wing nominee to exist for at least 30 years…(it is 95 degrees here in Phoenix and I have the chills at just that thought)

Hayden wasn’t only NSA director when it was condusting warrantless wiretapping, he was director from 1999 to 2005, when he became Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence. He was NSA director when the Cole was bombed. He was NSA director when 9/11 happened. He was NSA director when the US went into Afghanistan and Iraq. All that stuff happened on his watch.

I have mixed feelings about this — Hayden is certainly a bum to anyone who cares about that 4th Amendment thingy and the Constitution, that “Goddamn’d Piece of Paper!” as the Decider so fondly described it — but that said, Hayden may be the best hope for saving the CIA.

Both Joe Conason and Mark Shields said as much — and we need to remember, the CIA was the only spy agency that got it right on Iraq, and Vietnam for that matter. 80% of the CIA staff are analysts, not spies — but if a strong leader like Hayden is not appointed DCI, the Agency will be further damaged, and replaced by DoD spooks under Rumsfeld’s control.

Still, the DC Dems missed another chance to kick the bastards in the knees.

Oh, well — it’s not like we were using our civil liberties or anything . . .

What makes this special is two days ago I received an email from the DNC asking me to sign a petition against Hayden. Silly me, I thought the petition was aimed at Republicans who might want to take a stand to protect our civil liberties. Then Levin and Feinstien both representing safe seats vote with the people that want to abrogate the rule of law.
I can see only one way out, we need a new political party.

Yep, yer starting to get the picture….

Why are we in Iraq?

Why are we at the mercy of oil producing nations?

Why is abortion about to become illegal?

Why are the President and Abu Gonzales able to ignore the Constitution?

It ain’t because of the ReThugs homer. Nope, it’s because both party’s are in the clutch of the Corporate Slave State and they have been for many, many years.

But people are starting to ‘get it’. They now understand that the Democrats who have gone along with Bush & his criminal posse have to go. See my post, ‘Why we must move ahead.’, from three days ago if you want to see ‘great minds run together’

‘Gurney’ Joe Liebermann just will be just first to go down.

Please pray for Kobe. His stomach flipped (they think) and he is at the doctor’s now. I’m in Oklahoma and I can’t be with him and I feel so helpless.

hmmm, let me predict how Senator Obama will vote, wait, gotta think about it oh, 3 seconds, there! He’ll probably vote in favor, because its a foregone conclusion and all, and the Dems have to “keep the powder dry” for a real fight someday…

It would be great to be wrong on this, but he’s looking more like Joe-Bama all the time….

Oh Jane– super special thoughts yours and Kobe’s way– must be doubly awful being away from him. {{{{{*}}}}}

Whither Wither Democrats?

BTW – What happened to preview?

Oh no, Jane! Huge hugs from this side of the country. And lots of good thoughts for Kobe — poor pooch. I’m sure they will be able to set things right and he’ll be begging for pumpkin loaf in no time at all.

LeisureGuy, you are not the first person to mention that and I’m sure you won’t be the last. At the start of the next thread, someone will probably comment: “LeisureGuy” instead of Fitz.
I recognize all the commenters in 1 – 4. They all make quality comments here. I would invite you to consider apologizing to all four.
If you don’t like their comments, you could have just told them that. Instead you went the extra step and asked Jane Hamsher to delete their “chaff.”
I doubt you intended it, but do you figure Jane has nothing better to do than take orders from you about what stays and what goes?
If you want to contribute to FDL, via PayPal, I think that would be great.

imho, the key issue should be the evisceration of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights by this administration: in short, the imperial presidency. When these guarantees no longer hold, there is little left except for taking to the streets with whatever weapons are to hand, not necessarily of the lethal type. Maybe that is where we all should be, following he lead of Ms Sheehan.

Glenn Greenwald continues to focus on this major issue; thanks to all here who support and have supported him and his book.

And what is with the “loading” icon and timer and purplish (I am sure it has some fancy name) background on my post?

Did I miss the revolution?

I am beginning to like thees idea for a medium to longterm strategy of concentration on “safe” seats for las Democratistas where faux-centrist invertebradas can be rrreplaced weeth fighting progressives.

Then we begin to focus on the red states where conservative Dems can be replaced weeth real centrists Dems.

Push, push, push, never stop.

As the fantastic Digby says:

Things aren’t going to turn around overnight. But we are beginning to affect the way the media sees itself and we are putting political pressure on the party. This is how change is made. We’ll ride all their asses like Zorro until they get the message. We’re in for the long haul.

so.

EPU, it’s not automatic anymore, you have to select it, down next to the “Submit Comment” button.

Amen Jane. Great post!

Re: Hayden.
Has anyone read Joe Conason’s piece in Salon on him? I respect Conason and am confused.
Here’s what he says: “Don’t punish Hayden for Bush’s sins. It’s essential to rebuild a CIA devastated by partisan Bush hacks. Michael Hayden is qualified — and may be the last chance etc etc.”

And yes, the beltway DLC so-called Dems can suck my non-existant dirk and take their finger-in-the-wind, spineless, focus-group positioning, inauthentic selves out the door and off my phones and outta my email. Effing cowards! ‘cept for Feingold, maybe,(his vote greased the Ashcroft nom, remember) and I don’t know who else.

Jane,
of course some prayers coming Kobe’s way and some for Mom’s peace of mind and comfort as well

Sending good thoughts to a vet’s in Oregon….

OH Jane! I hope Kobe is okay. I’ll do my own version of prayer.

preview of comments is now optional which is good because the automatic preview was awfully pokey for folk using ancient, slow PCs. It was excrutiating for some users to type a comment because of the software overhead associated with automatic preview…

Hang in there, Kobe. And you, too, Jane.

OT –

Is there anybody here who understands how telephone connections work (meaning: how a phone call is connected)?

We just had a bizarro-world thing happen — a voice emanating from the answering machine (we let the machine take all calls) with what sounded like a snippet from the middle of a long sentence (a male voice speaking English — innocuous content, something like “OK, I’ll have to look into that.”).

This happened without a) the phone ringing first, and without b) the answering machine engaging first.

Finally the answering machine DID engage, interrupting the male voice — but without the phone having rung first, and it engaged at the very end of the outgoing message. What could be heard after the end of the outgoing message [”leave a message at the tone”] was just a dial tone.

I checked the caller ID function (by hitting *69) and the last call registered was a phone call received last night, not the “call” or whatever it was (the disembodied voice, creepy!) which had just happened.

I fully expect to hear jokes about me “hearing voices” — but I’m hoping someone here understands phone technology well enough to suggest what could have happened. I would’ve thought such an “event” would not be possible.

Thanks in advance for any techie’s response!

My understanding is that Hayden is Poindexter’s “boy” to defend the CIA against Rumsfeld.
If that’s accurate, Dems could have used it as an opportunity to attack against Rumsfeld.

Two things:

One, while I would have liked to see more Dem vtoes against Hayden in committee, given that a party line vote would still send the nomination to the floor, I would be interested to see whether those who voted for him in committee will vote against him on the floor.

Two – to Jane. My heart goes out to you on Kobe’s difficulties, and how hard it must be to be away from him now. I can’t remember what kind of dog he is, but I do know that what you have described is not uncommon in large dogs. What happened can be the result of heavy exercise followed by gulping of water or wolfing down of food. Sometimes they can manually flip it back, and I sure hope that’s the case with Kobe. Will have him, and you, in my thoughts and prayers.

You and Kobe are in our thoughts and prayers. Nothing worse than the helpless feeling of not being able to be there.
Best wishes.

Any thoughts or response on why my comment appears as awaiting moderation–not that I object to moderation? I am just a bit surprised, especially since my (rather few)comments iover the last several months have been very supportive of the work you do and folks who you have enlisted both as those psting and those commenting.

I comment from Greece as an expat American of almost 30 years.

As a resident of SF for 30 years, I’ve known Senator Feinstein a long time. While I urged her to vote against the confirmation of General Hayden, it is hardly a surprise that she was not prepared to take a stand. She was once aptly described as a “Democrat in Republican’s clothing”. Encouraging these people to develop a spine is going to be a real challenge.

When CA-Roots visited Senator Feinstein’s SF office, we specifically spoke about our willingness to back her up on positions she should take against this Administration. I said that “we were ready and able to defend her against swift-boating” if it came her way. The staffer clearly knew what we were talking about. Why not use the netroots for support on a vote like yesterdays?

She called Hayden an “honest broker” in the WaPo article today, which I simply cannot understand given her off-mike comment after questioning that “He didn’t answer any of my questions!” and one of them was about torture, which the Senate outlawed 90-9 and the Preznit signed. Hayden deferred his answers until closed session. WTF?

Oh, and also WTF, why did the SSCI vote in SECRET? Like we wouldn’t find out? Are their confirmation votes a national security issue?

Sorry, repeating my rant from last night, but WTF?

mark #41 – I wholeheartedly agree!

Sorry folks, the Dems have folded on nearly every issue (perhaps every issue) I’ve cared about since the last election, and I see no signs of change.

Saying it’s OK to have a soldier who breaks the law and lies about it head our department of civilian spying that has license to imprison people indefinitely, torture them and kill them is just a little over the top for me.

If their powder got any drier it would blow away in the first light breeze.

Whups, there it went.

It’s beginning to look like the party has developed a level of comfort with the status quo; said status quo being the destruction of practical democracy in favor of a formal presentation of democratic rituals.

Voting is not democracy, it is a tool of democracy. Making and enforcing law according to the best wisdom and will of the governed is democracy.

Amen, Jane

Thinking of rubber stamps, how about seeing if we could find a med school supplies wholesaler and send spines to all the Democrats in Congress?

Jane, I don’t do pray, but positive thoughts are with your pooch (and you) for the best possible outcome.

Leisure Guy, I agree with you 100% on the 1-4 thingy, but when I’m in the position to, I just go ahead and do it anyway. It makes me feel like such a puerile hypocrite, but how can I stop, Dear Abby?

EPU @ 50 – Just click on the “Refresh Comments” button, and the revolution will come around again. (And you can reload the revolution every fifteen seconds!) ;)

MrsK8 – I emailed your post to a friend of mine who should know the answer (West Pointer, former Verizon highlevel tech exec). I figure he’ll find it interesting and will, hopefully, provide an answer.

Jane #43 – Email me if they think this is torsion. Just went through it a week ago with our search dog.

I am a californian and am so ashamed of Feinstein. Can we please have a California Ned Lamont too? I just sent her a piece of my mind. Is she well connected enough to put me on a blacklist?

Wither [the] Democrats? On the vine.

Yikes, Jane!

[I went back to read the comments I missed and just caught yours about Kobe.]

Prayers go to Kobe! And to you! And to the vet caring for Kobe for all skill and wisdom!

Our pupster gets an operation for cancer next Tuesday, so I know the deep anguish of the heart over any threat to our beloved creatures.

Great comment Hereclitus, 68, I hope we can step often into your “river” of wisdom.

I guess the SECRET committee vote was a way for Chairman Roberts to say STFU to Feingold et.al.: no need for speeches here, just vote!

John C and Peterr – Thanks.

OK kiddo @75 – and all you get from it is a poor whine.

EPU -

give me back my Refresh Comments button !!!
I know it was Your Vastness and I want it back !

Jane, Christy, and Jamie (@ Intoxination – send him some hit love !) love the site improvements and additions

Dear EPU –

Oh thank you so much! I knew there would be someone in this wonderful community with either an idea or knowledge of someone who would know.

A big hug to you!

{{{{{{{{{***EPU***}}}}}}}}}

Taylor @ 1:18 pm (#13) – I think Schumer and Emmanuel may try that, but they will also have quite a bit of explaining to do, particularly if some of their hand-picked candidates lose. Many of the state Democratic parties will be supportive of Dean, because he’s been doing his best to help them. They don’t want to go back to the losing DC-centric approach the D[SC]CC represent.

Mrs K8:

What kind of phone do you have?

If it’s a wireless it might have been a freak occurence … a radio signal came through that woke up your phone, and the answering machine glommed onto the transmission.

It isn’t supposed to happen, but it can.

BC

It ain’t because of the ReThugs homer. Nope, it’s because both party’s are in the clutch of the Corporate Slave State and they have been for many, many years.

But people are starting to ‘get it’.

What was it 20 came to Clinton’s gathering where 200 were expected? Hmmm.

“I do recognize the danger of bashing Democrats in an election year..”.

Which is to say (as does the DLC) every other year. It’s OK to bitch and keep your fingers crossed one year, if you’ll shut your mouth and pony up your dough during the next, ad nauseum. Which is why Dianne is so radiant in that picture. She can vote for the Bushite bankruptcy legislation one session, AND remodel her new $16 million home in San Francisco’s Pacific Heights the next.

The “one seat at a time” crowd would do well to consider that perhaps the democratic party is a lost cause.

What really bothers me about this is the lost opportunity. Since the republicans have put an end to congressional oversight, the Democrats should be seizing any opportunity to probe the facts and make known their principled opposition to Bush’s lawlessness. It’s very disheartening, and it really makes me not want to vote at all because what’s the point?

Haralambos #65

The answer my friend, is blowin’ in the (ethernet) wind. It happens to more than a few of us lately. Server switch. I believe. It’s supposed to clear up any day now.

Jane Hamsher @ 1:37 pm (#44) – Hope he gets better soon.

Haralambos –

Not to worry! It happened to me (a long-time denizen of this site) just yesterday, happens to lots of folks here, and often we can’t figure out what triggers it.

The anti-troll software option seems to be sensitive to certain words or phrases, but your comment will be “moderated” soon, not to worry.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say! Your perspective as an expat will surely be interesting.

Bargain Countertenor –

Thanks for asking, I should have made it clear in the original post:

No wireless. Normal landline.

Haralambos at 65 — we’ve had to set our SPAM filters at a high level, due to a recent influx of spamming bots. Unfortunately, that also means that regular posts get caught up in the net on occasion due to lots of links or key word usage and so on. Usually, it’s just a matter of Jane or I (or someone else who may be helping out with monitoring on occasion) going in to manually approve the comment. It generally has nothing at all to do with content or the person posting the comment (unless of course, they habitually trip things up by trying to spam or something…). HTH!

Late thank you for Christy – that makes sense on the word conversion. I thought maybe while I had been a little missing in action that a new code had started. *g*

What happened to all that “we can’t have a military man running a civilian agency!!” outrage??

Guess that’s being saved for a rainy day too? Like, the day that Abu Gonzales moves into a cushy private sector job and Bush nominates Tommy Franks as his replacement?

cbl – I didn’t do it, no one saw me do it, there’s no way you can prove anything!

Maybe the Jefferson arrest has put the fear of God in them. That WAS a sting operation. Maybe that’s what happens when you are righteous and corrupt at the same time. The truly corrupt seem to get away with it.

DiFi has plenty of spine. She wants Hayden in there and will stand against her constituents to make sure he gets the job.

zennurse from #31 – re FDL weirdness. Are you aware of the Tab feature in Firefox?

And when this bunch of spineless wimps gets a majority, what makes you think they will suddenly find their spines? They will still be terrified of Rove after he is in jail. Better start thinking about how to take over the party soon.

Re: Dems holding a hearing about the possibility of war with Iran:

How can we get the word out to the media that, THIS time, if/when the “president” takes us in to an unnecessary war to protect his political a$$, you MUST NOT GIVE HIM A FREE PASS with the old “We’re a nation at WAR” and therefore must never, ever critique the president!!

My heart just cannot take another round of that cr*p. Honestly!

EPU @ 93 –

And there was nothing wrong with what you did, even though you didn’t do it!

Deep, sincere, atheistic wishes aimed straight at the poodle from NYC.

Jane and Kobe, you’re covered in The OC.

Two items from the last thread:

1. LHP, if you’re still here, send up a flare. I have a suggestion or two re: anti-swiftboating.

2. Would nonverbal recognition of a fellow FDLer be called ReddDar?

(sticks tounge out at punaise, then runs away)

LeisureGuy says:
May 24th, 2006 at 1:14 pm

I live in California and I’m desperate for a Democratic candidate to run against Dianne Feinstein. I would vote against her if the opposition was at all reasonable. She’s a total sell-out and wimp.
———————————————–
Her Republican opponent is the worst of the worst – DICK Mountjoy, emphasis on dick. DiFi on her worst ever day is 100,000 better than him.

He lives in my city, was our state senator and I know him socially. I like people, can usually find something in their better nature, but I’ll be darned if I can with him. “Abortion, Gays, Crack Cocaine – Liberals, Doncha just love ‘em?” is the bumper sticker on the back of his car.

Find out about him so you don’t make a big mistake.

And leisure guy #7? You are cranky. And I don’t like the way you angled that chair in your living room, change it will you?

Jane, you want prayers? You got it. 24/7.

Thanks, Mrs K at 91. As I said, I don’t object to moderation and can understand it, having overseen the set up of several blogs for myself and my students and encouraged them to become active in this new sphere. It is good to hear a virtual personal response in this virtual impersonal zone.

“OT%u2013 watching cnn and they announced that Blair/Bush are having a presser tomorrow eve. Lemmeseehere, John Howard, Olmert and Blair%u2013 his best buds circling the wagons with him? ah, the smell of desperation. “

No… It’s a strategy meeting on how to nuke Iran without getting called on it.

I would so love to see the ‘loyal opposition’ stand up and actually oppose the administration. What are they waiting for??

As an example per my last small comment, thees invertebrada Jane Harman ees facing a primary challenge form Marcy Winograd een California, a safe blue seat.

Harman has relinquished her responsibilities on more than one occasion. I do no know much about Winograd, but I theenk thees ees definitely one seat where netrrots pressure ees appropriate.

so.

I felt the same way until I read Conason (definately no spinless wimp) on Salon. It’s behind a wall but you can get through
for the day by playing a 30 second ad.

Jane,

The Dems have to keep their powder dry in order to use it for the circular firing squad. Remember, the early Christians’ wrath was directly almost exclusively toward other Christian sects, not the Romans who were slaughtering them all indiscriminately.

Are you talking about the unintelligence committee? Democrats need a leader to unify party.

That spinless was unfortunate. Of coures I meant spineless.

OT– just caught the tail end of Georgie Porgie Allen lying his butt off on Tweety wrt charges of racism. Will catch it again at the 7pm showing.

Oh Jane! Poor Kobe – that is very serious. If he is at the vet’s, though, you are way ahead on the curve.

Thanks, Christie at 93 replying to me at 65–sorry if this chatter is jamming things up. You folks are why I am here every day. Virtual democracy seems to be within reach but threatened–the next step is something approaching real participatory democracy–go netroots. Thanks

Mike Deegan–spinless and spineless works for me…which, if you actually think about it…

i don’t get it with the complaints about the opening “calls”. it’s not like you have to spend any time reading them, WTF? they’re our little opening rituals/traditions. get over it. a little cheer to start the thread……..

(Wow! Lost a post by hitting preview and testing link … shorter this time)

You hit the nail on the head Jane!

This attitude by the beltway Dems is precisely why the national party is seen as being impotent by the average voter: i.e. if they don’t see their representatives fighting for them, they think “what’s the use?” and give up, or vote Republican because “at least they believe in something”

They’re seen as cowering fools by more people than me

Al- Scooter at 103

Am still here. Listening to suggestion with both ears.

El Gato Negro! – Winograd is an excellent choice to oppose Harman.

http://www.winogradforcongress.com/

oooh a little replay of Fitz’ presser on Tweety. be still my heart……

Blackwatch, I completely disagree with you.

I don’t view the Constitution as ancillary. It is central to our Democracy.
I don’t for one second see the Directorship of the CIA as trivial in any way, shape or form.
Freedom is about accountability, and this double secret behind-one-particluar-closed-door bullshit doesn’t cut it.
These people are burning through money, lives, laws and goodwill like it’s their birthright.
Every single one of their traitorous, ruinous actions must be brought to the light.
And guess what? I EXPECT our elected officials to DO something about these appointments instead of acting like a herd of status quo insatiable lapdogs. It’s insulting and damaging for a billion reasons.
A thousand little cuts add up to something, in my book.
Sorry you disagree with us, but this is what Democracy is supposed to look like.

Tommy Yum

Keeping powder dry for circular firing squad

I loved that

My local Drinking Liberally chapter has a table at our county dem committee fundraiser tonight. The speaker is James Carville. I want to get in his knickers in the Q & A portion about the DLC culture of the Schrums, without pissing off the local Dems on my first exposure to them. (I usually save thast for the second date, lol.)Can you firedogs please suggest a diplomatic way to pose the question?

#98 JWR– “DiFi has plenty of spine. She wants Hayden in there and will stand against her constituents to make sure he gets the job.”

That’s just how I feel about Maria Cantwell 90% of the time. Who DO these people think they’re representing, anyway? They have no political power, as they remind us all the time, but then they refuse to even take a virtual stand against the party in power, though they know it will make no difference anyway. They’re snubbing their potential Dem supporters and focusing all their efforts on Rush Limbaugh followers who would vote for them in a cold day in hell. Aaaarghh!

I thank the stars above for the FDL community every day; extra special thoughts and prayers to you, Jane and Kobe, today.

Oh God. I almost left a comment.

Al-Scooter at 103, I’m here too, pondering a reply to loosehead’s original swift-boating question…

Tee it up, please.

Well, at the risk of being a contrarian and taking a beating for it here, rightwing stalwart Joe Conason and Bush apologist Steve Clemons support Hayden. That’s right, support him.

Since Conason is behind Salon’s wall, here’s a big excerpt, and Clemons is here. Patrick Lang adds more nuance to Hayden than Greenwald here. All three of them suggest that we should not blame the soldier in the field (Hayden) but the CinC who ordered him to do what he did. Guess who that is? Right, The Decider himself.

Taken together, Conason, Clemons and Lang seem to make the case that Hayden is actually describing the breadcrumb trail that shows how the NSA wiretaps were authorized. He testified that BushCo is using Article II to claim the power to tap our phones. I’m no lawyer, but that does seem to be a smoking gun that will be REQUIRED if we can ever get this thing into a court building, and Hayden is too smart not to know that.

So perhaps, just perhaps, he is a patriot underneath the layer of Republican. I’m not one to give much benefit of the doubt to this crew, but Hayden strikes me as a different animal altogether. And we need to figure out why.

The other core problem as I see it is that almost everything BushCo has done to date regarding intelligence borders on or tips over into illegality. So anyone Bush nominates is going to have his shit on their shoes. The key is to find someone who stinks the least, and who will also do the best job to contain the damage being done by Cheney/Rumsfeld. because they are the real source of evil in this administration. Bush is the banality part of the equation.

I’m willing to be convinced otherwise, but not willing to let Bush/Cheney escape the blame here. The NSA scandal is their fault. Hayden isn’t the source of that.

Jane, Really sorry to read about Kobe. Gastric torsion is a serious problem. I have a large Doberman (Toby the Dobie) and I am very familiar with the issue — it is a big problem for big dogs. For future reference, don’t feed your dog and then let him run around; conversely, don’t feed him right after he has been running around. This combination can lead to gastric torsion in big dogs. I always wait 1–2 hours (yes, hours) between feeding and running or vice versa. Sending good vibes your way…and to Kobe, too.

The wonderful Jimmy Carter with Wolfie speaking about Palestine/Israel and immigration.

And bushbots want him censured…wtf?

And sending prayers to Kobe/Jane too while I wait…

I was going to rant about the root of the problem being that these Democrats just don’t know how to talk about an issue, and that is what leaves them unable to do anything.

But, . . .

All I care about right now is Kobe.

Except maybe that I seem to keep reading about Jane going halfway across the country to see her mother a lot, and getting the feeling that her mother is in less than perfect health. If that feeling is on the mark, I care about her mother, too.

I am sure everyone here is extremely concerned about all health matters in the family, and wishes the very best outcome to be achieved as quickly as possible. That’s certainly the case from here, just across the Red River from Oklahoma.

And while speaking for a single person on this forum is dangerous, I have to believe that we all would greatly appreciate frequent and detailed updates on all health matters until things turn out well.

These guys are busy.

Peter Zeidenberg, deputy special counsel under PJF on the Libby case, just opened the government’s case against Safavian today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00349.html

All well and good, but…..Rove….must….keep….focus on Rove…..

Please pray for Kobe. His stomach flipped (they think) and he is at the doctor now. I am in Oklahoma and I can not be with him and I feel so helpless.

Our Akita’s stomach flipped years ago. Fortunately we got him to the vet within hours, immediate surgery, and he went on to live another 5-6 years.

The main thing is they are not going to want to eat for the first couple days. We finally where cooking him ground beef with beef bouillon and rice and feeding him by hand. Plus we stayed up with him 24/7 (on shifts for a week after surgery).

Good luck.

PS – Not a regular commenter, what kind of dog is Kobe?

Actually there are some very good Democrats out there. For me, as a life long Demo (and proud of it!), the dream ticket in ‘08 would be Al Gore and Barbara Boxer. I’d like to see the Democrats unite soon around someone. The clock is running.

Military junta. The pieces are falling into place.

Difficult Lawyer– I’ll second that!

I suspect that there are at least two other things going on with the Dems’ approval of the Hayden nomination. One is that they think of themselves as still having some power over personnel and policy issues, and so they’re behaving exactly the way they would do if they were in the majority and a Democratic president sent up a nominee they had some qualms about: “he’s got problems, but he’s on the right side on some issues, and he’ll work with us, etc.” The other thing that’s going on is that many of the Dems really, truly agree with numerous Republicans on lots of national security issues. This goes well beyond their support for Bush on Iraq and, now, Iran: it covers issues like wiretapping and how the CIA’s supposed to be run.

Of course they’re deathly afraid of being called unpatriotic, but part of that fear is because they buy into the world view in which it’s A Really Bad Thing to rock the boat.

Mrs. K8:

I hope your pup comes through.

I lost a Labrador to that mess last October.

I encourage an off topic update on his outcome (even though I have no idea how I’ll ever find it).

I gotta catch a train.

Mark this at the top of the next thread for me:

Leisure Guy!
~

Oscarsmom @126 – On bad days, I really think DiFi and the DINO’s are in agreement with most of Bush’s policies and appointments. They embrace Bush’s jingoistic “base” because they know that the bellicose foreign policy they’re in favor of requires that support.

On good days, I fall back to the “spineless” argument.

Lobster girl

PJF also has a new case on trial in Chicago of Daly’s City Hall and the Chicago ALdermen are trying to swiftboat him over that. They are holding press conferences saying he has “crossed some (imaginary) line”

It was in the Chicago Tribune IIRC on MAy 22

LHP #119:

I’m certainly no expert, but I’ve a little tangential experience with commercial PR. IMO, the key is to be Bill Clinton -remember the war room? – not John Kerry. When your candidate’s being attacked, time is absolutely critical. You need to get your narrative into the media ASAP or sooner, so that the media’s uncritical “balance” format can work for you instead of against you.

I believe that objective implies three things:

1. Vet your candidate as thoroughly as possible up front. If possible, get quasi-oppo research done on him/her just to see if there’s anything else “out there” even if it’s untrue. Then develop your own narrative to cover each of the most likely and/or most damaging lines of attack in advance.

2. During the campaign, make sure that there are clear responsibilities for media-watch activities, etc. If you have contacts in local newsrooms, etc., this is the time to utilize those relationships. The earlier warning that you can get that something wicked this way comes, the better prepared you’ll be to get your counterspin placed. This is the war room phase.

3. Do your own oppo research to keep in the bag. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

Sound reasonable? I’m offering a today-only double-your-money-back guarantee! :-)

Folks that’s why there are primaries. It’s not just enough to support Lamont over Joementum but other challengers to DINO Repub enablers.

Please support Colleen Fernald instead of DiFi in the CA primary. There is no doubt that DiFi will win but if Colleen garners enough votes that will send a strong message to DiFi that more serious challengers will come around the next time.

Once the primaries are over then we should vote the Dem ticket in Nov. But the primary is where the battle for the soul of the Dem party needs to be waged.

Mrs K8,

That is weird. And with the current NSA listening posts about … I think the operative question is, “Am I being paranoid enough?”

Pach, would you please post whatever explanation your Verizon friend may come up with?

BC — reminding everyone that Orwell’s 1984 was not intended to be a how-to book.

Actually there are some really good Democrats out there. For me the dream ticket for 2008 would be Al Gore and Barbara Boxer.

op99:

I suppose “Why does your head look like a shaved ass?” is not what you were looking for?

Guy gets confirmed anyway, we get attacked, Dems did not do enough to protect us. Now they parse the vote based on their polling back home for those facing re-election.

Kind of puts democracy in a bad state… won’t get fooled again.

Kobe is a great, big black poodle.

Here is a picture -

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments

Expat @147 – Well said.

ccobb, your comment: “rightwing stalwart Joe Conason” leaves me mystified. I’ve been reading him for years and he consistently, and very intelligently, attacks and disects the right and infuriates the nutters.

I’m not the guy with the Verizon friend, though I’m also curious to hear the answer.

Pach, I was thinking more along the lines of, “how can you stick your manhood into that steaming pile of shit you’re married to?”

Nice piece Jane.

Don’t sweat the Dems winning either house — aint gonna happen. That’s why their so arrogant. They know they can get away with anything and all they have to do is steal more votes:

http://www.bradblog.com
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

Taylor @ 13…
“Anyway, here’s the narrative for the 06 elections: The Republicans out-spend the Dems 4-1 in the elections. They unleash a firestorm of negative ads. The Dems cower and grovel and whimper that they really aren’t so bad. The disgusted voters say, A plague on all your houses, and stay home.”

Right on the money.

Expat – now at 140? Well said, just the same. Think I’ll start using timestamps to refer to previous comments.

Jane, you and Kobe are always together. Just take it one step at a time. I”m sure your vet was carefully chosen and will do the best for Kobe. Sending all good thoughts.

JWR- I am using tabs, it’s when the link doesn’t opwn in a new window and I come back to FDL by clicking on the back button top left. I wierdly end up at the place I was before the last refresh or submitted comment.

Mitt Romney has gone off to tour the ME, playing president. If anyone sees him in a flightsuit, save a screenshot for me, willya. We’ll need it later.

Kobe is in good medical hands and will come through well. All this strange activity is extremely unsettling and the poodle will be desperately missing her “mommy” bigtime. This comforting is the one thing Jane can do in such a medical emergency — and Jane knows it. I just feel bad for Jane right now.
Luckily, Kobe will live through this ordeal even without Jane’s immediate presence.

Ms K8 – I’m curious too — we had a weird thing happen w/ our phone – wireless – which I won’t go into — day before yesterday. Curious if anyone else has had any phone weirdness.

looseheadprop and everyone – very interested in talking more about your post from prior thread – liked the Harry Potter stuff – wonder if you could repeat somewhere or if anyway we could consider the role of humor as weapon – aikido etc. concept.

Jane – I send white light to surround Kobe — have known other cases of same thing and all survived! animal friends are the greatest.

Guy gets confirmed regardless of congressional democrats when Republicans control all three branches of government.

Jane mentioned that the only times Bush really loses is when republicans stand up, rather than democrats. The Port deal, Miers, etc. Well this shouldn’t be a surprise. When it comes to a vote, the only time Bush loses is when a republican lawmaker sides with the democrats.

Basically, the democrats can be as loud as they want to about Hayden. They could even get the entire media to go along with this, but if it came to a vote – It doesn’t matter. I think the democrats are just keeping their cards close to their chest until November.

I’m tired of tom – chicago’s repeated assertions that the elections are irrelevant because of the voting machines. I got the message.

Haralambos,
Have some Retsina (gag!) for me-I was stationed on Crete for all four years of my USAF stint. Loved the country despite Papandreau and the KKE at the time

So the way it works is that we get to bash Democrats, but Sen. Lieberman doesn’t? It is possible that this guy is the best choice for the job given that the minority doesn’t have any say in the matter in the current congress. In all likelihood, if he were blocked, Dumbya would nominate someone much, much worse.

This IS a problem. The dems in office.. the demcumbants are mostly centrists leaning skeered on national security. Progressives are not represented in congress except by a few. And the dems don’t support progressives as candidates… and in the case of Ned Lamont .. they support the republican voting Jomentum… add to that the appeaser Hillary… sliding down to repiblicana… DiFi, who loves the DOD contracts her sweeties gets… and Schumer who lives in some dreamland…

This is depressing.

I don’t suppose elections will change the course toward MORE fascism. The only hope may be in total collapse of the dollar and then the US economy and a complete kick the bums out when the whole country rises up (in arms) in the second American Revolution. I see that as not unlikely the way things are going.

The courts are almost useless… look at how they have allowed the whole abuse of human rights at Gitmo and the stomping on of the Generva Conventions accepting the notion that these laws are “quaint”.

The WOT is a PR campaign curtesy of the think tanks, the DOD and the spook agencies who can’t help but see danger wherever they look… and a military solution for it.

Real domocracy is quaint and slow and has nothing to do with wealth and power and strategic interests and all that other rubbish that defines 21st century Amerika.

Can’t wait for the revolution… probably won’t live that long… but long enough to see things go from really bad to incredibly awful.

posted from

http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/…..eb388743_4

(PRWEB) – Utica, NY (PRWEB) May 22, 2006 — Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a new Zogby poll reveals that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.

Any comments on this, was floored to see the Zogby poll getting presstime on Yahoo news. Not that I think a real investigation will happen in the current power structure, but man, that is a big chunk of opinion that is not getting smaller.

Apologies, I posted a link to this couple of threads back, hoping for commentary, or angling to see if any other coverage of this story had been aired.

I realize that 911 disgruntlement has become a scandal fatigued ‘third rail’, but curious if this story has made a dent for anyone.

A nod to darelplant, Heraclitus and Lobstergirl. Tack on the fact that Hayden has appeared before Congress twice, under oath, and misled them.

Conanson is in the ozone to think that anyone who has so little integrity and value for this Country’s principals and who lies so easily to Congress AND who seems, himself, so confused about how FISA is supposed to work and what is in the 4th amendment (can you hiss disssssssembler?) has the ability to “save” anything. Certainly – telling agents and Congress that he is going to make sure they don’t leak anymore information about illegal, immoral and war crimes acitivies is not going to do it.

Hayden has had 5 years worth of chances to do the right thing and has never made a tiny effort to head in that direction. Lawbreaker, liar — yep, sounds like ther right guy to be a General and to “save” the CIA.

Seriously- if Congress can’t even:

stand up for not being outright fibbed to under oath, when we were investigating something as overwhelmingly important as 9/11 and pre/post-9/11 security measures, as a grounds for not putting someone (the same someone who let us down on 9/11 btw as the others pointed out) in charge of our most covert intelligence agency;

require positive job performance (like say actually locating bin Laden after 6 years);

ASK about how information will be classified and how classified information will be handled vis a vis Congress,

etc.

they aren’t doing their job.

I have been saying all along – I’ll grit my teeth for 2006, then bail to 3rd party if there are no good candidats by 2008. Now I think that was wrong. You will never get people like Feinstein and Rockefeller replaced from within the party while they are incumbents. They need people they have felt were the base to stay at home or 3rd party and if it means a new onslaught of freshmen Republicans – that’s the cost. Anymore, I’d say better freshmen anything than most Dem incumbents.

Feinstein has even said that she thinks Hayden’s program is illegal. How does that square, then, with putting him in charge of the CIA? How does his “illegal” compare to the Clinton “illegal” that took her so far, so fast?

Personally, I’m almost starting to hope that Dems see what happens when there is nothing to distinguish them from the Republicans. I’m sick of making excuses for them and being the same kind of enabler for them that they are for Bush.

They have NOTHING that they bring to the table if we support them and while it will hurt, if “strong” incumbents get no support from the base and maybe even lose to the Republicans — well, that means that it is much more likely to have an actual NEW dem candidate in the next round. Senators, in particular, serve too long to send these same picks back because of “fear of the Republicans”

I’m past fed up. I think Bayh getting out of DC and into Iowa gave him a glimpse. Definitely the only thing that changed Harman’s tune was her primary challenge.

RIght now everything is about to go to pieces. Not one of those Vichy Dems will break a nail to do anything about it – so I say hand the disaster on and outright to the Republicans rather than letting the Feinsteins and Liebermans and to a lesser extent the Levins and Byrds and Bayhs and Rockefellers put the anchor on our necks too.

It’s like one of those de-clutter shows. You have to turn loose of some things to go on. It gives a couple of bad years, but then opens up 2008 and 2010 to either have better Dem candidates or the actual birth of some 3rd/4th parties. Sometimes you have to go long and think for the longer term. Re-electing Feinsteins kills anything that might have been worthwhile about the party.

I’m not at “grit my teeth and support the Dem anyway” anymore.

Difficult Lawyer – Thanks. Our vet had said the stomach turning was mainly in (IIRC) Labs, Akita’s, Great Danes, and Rotweilders(?). Was not aware of it occurring in the larger poodles. But I guess it has more to do with size than breed.

J Bean, Rape Gurney Joe ciriticizes Dems for standing up for Dem principles. We call them to account when they don’t. These are not equivalent cases.

it is important to recall that a slight majority of Democrats in Congress actually voted against the War on Iraq back in fall of 2002 … too many did go along with Bush but half did not !

Mrs. K8 -

Was it raining? Once a few years ago I was on the phone during a BIG thunderstorm and after a lightening strike big thunder clap, I found myself talking to someone else entirely. We were both astonished and never did find out exactly what happened.

Jane, Kobe will be fine, since it looks as if he got to the vet lickity split. A previous enormous golden in our household (115 lbs @ 6 mos!) had torsion. It turned out well. Thinking good, healthy-dog thoughts.

Democratic leaders who won’t fight are worse than useless to us-and by us I mean the American people.

Those who defer and defer and defer to the executive-until someone files a search warrant in a bribery case-and then bewail how uncivilized and smashmouthed politics has become- are indeed part of the problem.

We need to poke them with sticks every time they veer from course.

Before you can win, you have got to fight!

Al scooter,
I could not agree with you more. So does Emily’s list, that’s in their candidate’s training manual. You are in excellent company.

My question was not so much what can a campaign/candidate do to protect self. It was what can the Netroots do from our offside position? (My rugby referee past is showing, I mean offside in the rugby, soccer, football sense) We are on th efeild, have a great view of the action, but since we are offside, we are not technically part of the action of he game.

We are not aprt of the cam[paign. We are not part of the party infrastructure. We are the greass roots.

But we are more organized than I would have thought possible in such a short time. We are also incredibly good a getting info out quickly.

How do we leverage that to protect people who are being punished for doing the right thing?

Like Schuster this week and Fitz in future? and any other person who may not be a candiadte but tries to stand up and be counted?

This is like that poem about the holocost: When they came for the trade unionists, I did not cry out because I was not a trade unionist,….. Whenthey came for me there waas no one left to cry out.

If everytime they try to slime, an instanateous howl of protest went up……?

Kinda like folks doing “the wave” at a ball game. The first time I saw it, I didn’t knwo what it was. But each time it came around the stadium, more and more people joined in.

What if the net roots could spawn a “wave”

first a little one, then a bigger one, and so on until it no longer pays for them to try the slime machine tactic.

Kinda like Fitz making Irving regret it each times he wins a discovery motion.

op99 – ask him about his sex life! How can he do it with that hatchet-faced ball-buster?

A slogan from the past:

Democrats and Republicans — Not a Dime’s worth of difference!

Greenwald demonstrates that empirically this is a truthful statement. Instead of blogging and spending hours at the computer, how about taking a course in Marx 101? Arrogant. I don’t have time for arrogance. We’re going down the toilet quickly, and we don’t have time to bullshit around about lesser evils, and making small changes, or getting key committeeships.

The wake-up call is here. Who’s going to respond? Or are we all too full of ourselves at fancy Vegas conventions, hobnobbing with the powerful, grateful to get their attention and a bone from the table?

I’m angry and offensive. But, damnit, how many times are we going to be forced to eat shit? Feinstein’s glowing kisser (the great photo to this story) has set me off Cheney-style, that is, “big time”.

Cancer Cures:

I think Greenwald’s point is that senate Dems show no evidence of ever being disposed to using political capital. The House has signs of spirit under Pelosi leadership, but there’s nothing on the record so far to suggest that senate Dems will fight if they achieve a maority.

They have hurrican gale winds at their backs now? Is timidity a temporal, strategic decision or a stubbornly bad habit?

Jane, I wouldn’t worry about your comments turning off potential Democratic voters. The Democrats are doing a fine job of that all by themselves.

If the Democrats lose in 2006 it’s because we didn’t vote.

We determine whether or not the Republicans are reelected. We, not the politicians. We.

I live in CA and have always voted straight Dem. I e-mailled Feinstein that i will not vote for her again after her oking Hayden. So who to vote for in the primary?

Bye bye, I’m off to eat chicken and see Carville, I’ll report back on Late Nite FDL.

151 Mike Deegan

It’s sarcasm, honey.

Muahaha, FDL should start supporting Green candidates.

al-Scooter (cc: looseheadprop),

All great recommendations. Thanks. A smart, savvy candidate, or candidate’s manager, should have all those in his/her arsenal. I’ve assumed, since the famous Clinton “War Room” that all candidates developed similar. Silly me.

That said (or written), my response to loosehead’s original question was: What can we, the citizens, do to counter an act of swift-boating. Besides supporting candidates we favor, is there something we can do, individually or as a group, to proactively engage (as opposed to reactively) such tactics?

Frankly, I’m at a loss because all my pondering leads to the media – the corporate media – the main communication channel that a majority of informed or ill-informed (take your pick) folks rely upon these heady days.

Still pondering … in a ponderous state so to speak. And sending Kobe white light and to Mrs. K8’s pooch too.

Unlearned history

1. Bush makes an outrageous choice
2. Democrats promise a fight
3. Democrats cave
4. We rationale why they caved

1. Bush makes an outrageous choice…

What’s hard to understand? Wasn’t it Einstein who said that insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result? Until we lose them or find a way to hold them accountable, this cycle is set on endless repeat.

The title of this post was correct originally, “Whither Democrats.” Whither means “where art thou?” and is spelled with a “wh.” Unless you meant the “withered Democrats” like the Joes and…

Just wanting to say how glad I am to see more than one or two comments from our learned friend, Mrs K8. I’m thinking of you as you face your pupster’s cancer and sending good thoughts to all the sick animals in our family.

I would suggest, in the face of swiftboating behavior, that one thing we can do is write 1) letters to the swiftboated, expressing support and encouragement and 2) send letters to the media suggesting they stop drinking the RNC toilet water.

I think, until further notice, all hearings on appointments should be cancelled. There is absolutely no reason to waste the time or money for investigations to hold hearings. The republicans have the votes to rubber stamp everything this man wants, the Democrats make fools of themselves by pretending to be outraged and then voting the way he wants anyway, and it just serves to make the rest of us sick to the stomach. Why not hold a coronation instead? I mean, we have already crowned King George. All that is left, is the party!

#178 “If the Democrats lose in 2006 it’s because we didn’t vote.
We determine whether or not the Republicans are reelected. We, not the politicians. We.”

Ahh–now you’re making me nostalgic for the good old days!!

Really OT, but so funny:

gas prices a la watertiger

Teddy – I didn’t think “Whither” was mispelled. I was making a succinct point.

Mike Deegan 153, meet mommybrain 182.

Sort of on topic. My local DFA group just endorsed Jonathan Tasini in the primary against Hillary Clinton (so did the Rochester DFA). Not because anyone thinks he can win, but to send a message. If he even breaks double digits (hell if he breaks 1%), it will change the entire complexion of the race because she will no longer be the front runner.

It is worth it in a race like hers b/c the seat is not at risk, but ANY success by Tasini that outstrips the projected outcome, will speak volumes.

We need to take back the party from the Democratic Leadership Council.

Mark – 180. Colleen Fernald is a primary opponent of DiFi.

EPU at 190: I thought you were kidding, but someone’s changed the header on the post!

When the evil universe kids, we all shout, “How high?”

Yeah, yeah. I’m getting super tired of the Democrat bashing in the Democratic blogs. Not because they don’t deserve it, but because I’m sick of the endless loop: (1) rail against spineless, craven Democrats who don’t deserve our vote; (2) get people all riled up so that they don’t want to vote for these Democrats; (3) lecture people about how we all must vote for them even though they’re spineless and craven and don’t deserve our vote. What’s the point anymore?

Very moving post by Mike Farrell (BJ from Mash) on Crooks & Liars.

ccobb – what a beautiful child! Good job.

OT- A “developing” story from Raw Story. Looks like it could be a non-story, pure speculation type piece, but FDL is always interested in any tidbit from the Plame case:

“Prosecutors say silence in CIA leak case may
signal Rove indictment coming… Developing…”

http://www.rawstory.com/

Looseheadprop at 174

The poem was written by Rev Martin Niemoller

Other California Senatorial Democratic candidates. (don’t even read what the male candidate has to say – total DINO)

If by some miracle we wind up with a Democratic majority in either the Senate or the House this November, it will be because the GOP lost it, not because the Democrats won anything.

______________________

Bingo, Jane. Bing-fucking-go.

Once again, this was a pathetic display of Dems rolling over when confronted by the specter of Mr. 29%’s national security shadow and thus inviting the very vindictive demagogic recriminations they so fear.

(Why “inviting”? If Dems do not take the initiative against the transparently undemocratic and thuggish illegal politics of the radical Republicans, Dem restraint is taken for weakness by the modern-day GOP. Preemptive GOP attacks will always — always — be the price paid by Dems for not taking a principled stand; Dems have learned seemingly nothing from 5 1/2 years of this grating broken-record — the GOP attacks will come whether or not Dems take a principled stand and fight, so better to fight on their feet than cower on their knees).

Is it too much to expect Dems to stop being timid appeasers to the Republican rubber-stamp Congress? I mean, fuck, it doesn’t even require courage nowadays; the majority of Americans are now in incontrovertible opposition to Junior’s policies — on nearly everything. What are Dems waiting for?

Is fear of the right-wing noise machine such a powerful check on Dem’s initiative that it overrides the self-evident responsibility to act on behalf of the majority of Americans?

Evidently.

And don’t Dems see how this “concerned-but-meek” Dem compliance w/counterproductive and destructive Republican policies makes Dems culpably complicit in the GOP reign of destruction?

Even if Dems win control of one or both bodies of Congress this fall, what will change if Bushism isn’t repudiated? Can Dems be relied upon to pursue investigations? They are shying away already instead of matter-of-factly acknowledging that of course they will pursue investigations.

Simple Dem response to the media question: “Will you pursue investigations if you gain a majority in November?”:

“Of course we’ll pursue investigations. It’s part of our job. It’s part of why American voters send us to Washington, and it’s a major part of why American voters are so unhappy w/the Republicans. It comes as no surpise that the current rubber-stamp Republican Congress has blocked oversight of the executive, just as it’s also no surprise that the vast majority of Americans think America is dangerously headed in the wrong direction. That is no coincidence. The difference betwixt Dems and the GOP is: We wanna know why America is going to hell inna handbasket and the Republicans want to worship at the altar of a self-proclaimed king.”

That can be tightened up and put better, I’m sure, but is the gist of that so fucking hard to say? If so, why?

If Bushism isn’t repudiated for the destructive force it is, if Dems aren’t signed on to pursue this necessary corrective, what’s the damn point?

So Dems can ultimately get blamed for complicity in the destructive outcomes of GOP radicalism and criminality and undemocratic practices and the whole thing gets written off as “just politics” until the neocons lick their wounds, regroup, rename/rebrand themselves and take another go at it four or eight years later against Dems who, once again, will not call it like it is?

Here’s the upshot for me:

American voters ain’t never gonna trust cautious cowardly Dems to stand up to al Quaeda (and to stand up for the Constitution, btw) until Dems can be relied upon to stand up to Republicans.

Whether it’s right, wrong or indifferent, American voters might profoundly distrust Bushism, but they have an absolute contempt for weakness.

With notable exceptions, Dems are nothing if not weak.

Dems can hope to win by default b/c the GOP fucks things up so bad that American voters are desperate to try anyone else or Dems can take the fight to the Republicans and win on their own merits. The case ain’t hard to make, but it requires the courage of your own convictions, which is in sad supply in the Dem caucus.

Of the two options, it appears (so far) that 2006 is shaping up like a cautious Kerry redux: maybe the Dem caucus is just trying to “maintain [their] viability”?

btw, How’d that work out for you, Sen. Kerry?

It’s times like this where you seriously wonder: would it be better to keep working the refs in hopes of substantive change or just start a new fucking party?

As always, digby has an inneresting post on this conundrum (i.e. the aggravatingly slow process of turning Dem fecklessness into a fighting spirit) titled “Charlie Brown Politics”.

digby sees more cause for hope (while being painfully aware of how far we is got to go), but for all me, this political battleship sure takes a fuck-all power of doing to turn around.

Neal is my rep. MA-02. Has been Dem district (safe) since at least the 40’s.

Net Neutrality called. Intern had no clue.

Called today CtG – Intern had no clue.

I may have talked it up enough to pique his interest, but I’m not holding my breath.

Was unoppoesed last time (Kerry’s coattails, maybe.)

He invites Gerry Adams to march the Holyoke St. Paddy’s day parade.

Website lists him as ‘cosponsor’ of the ERA. STILL.
So, his heart is in the right place. But, how to wake ‘em up?

Everytime I think that the Democrats are just lost, I am reminded as to why the Republicans are so damn odious.

New Republican ad is a twofer. It compares the Democrats to the ‘Four horsemen of the Apocalypse’ and it makes a nice implied smear of the show being run by “wimmin folk”.

http://web.nrcc.org/ads/horsemen/

-GSD

Reading down the comments, I’m ashamed to have written a semi-flame (anger directed at Democrats, deflecting off somewhat to “bloggers”)… ashamed because it comes at a time that Jane obviously is having a crisis with the health of her pet.

My best to her and for Kobe. Whatever I may say from time to time, Jane’s work is VERY much appreciated.

The house Republican leadership is now asking for the return of the material confiscated during the FBI raid on Jefferson’s congressional office – based on the concept of constitutional separation of powers! Who knows? Looking back years from from now, this event could be the turning point.

Old man smell – Who says these posters are democrats? I’m waiting for FDL to start supporting Green candidates myself =)

Teddy – They did change it. I was kidding. This is why we need sarcasm, irony, sardonicism, hyperbole and other flags or emoticons.

Jane – Best to Kobe. Given your present worries, apologies if you thought I was “correcting” you. Whither works better for the post btw.

mommybrain says:
May 24th, 2006 at 2:15 pm

I used to live in east Pasadena. I believe I voted against Mountjoy several times. Bad politicians seem to stick around a lot longer than good ones. It maybe says something about the environment they move into.

meta says:
May 24th, 2006 at 2:26 pm

The neocons seem to believe that the government created the Constitution, so it isn’t important. They’re completely backwards on that, but how do we get the word out?

Mark says:
May 24th, 2006 at 2:57 pm

Read the previous comments. You’re not the first on this. Fernald was recommended to me.

1st link is a typo try this if you’re interested

I will not vote for DiFi. But I was just researching Fernald and I must say, I’m not at all impressed so far. Does anyone who is advocating for her have a good link to info on why you think she’s a good challenger? I don’t agree with her stand on a few issues.
Having this kind of choice makes voting look like an illusion of freedom.

Re: Swiftboating.

To start with, you won’t ever be able to “counter” it when it is aimed at someone ineffectual, and it is almost not needed when aimed at someone effectual.

For example, someone who, when accused of “crossing a line” will look patiently at the boater and say slowly and distinctly:

I’m sorry if it confuses you – but in most of these States that’s not called crossing a line; it’s called a t. BTW, has anyone given you information about my “reading is for everyone” program?

Seriously – with the media so worthless, there is little to be done for someone who can’t go ahead and do for themsleves IMO. It is one of Hilary’s strengths (remember her, “if they’d spend as much time fixing all the Republican screwups as they do worrying about the minutaie of my life …”) and the point behind Molly Ivins German Shep/Dauchsand analysis.

Right now, you can’t try to make the Doxie a leader, then go find GSDs to protect them. You need a GSD in the lead – they’ll take care of themselves. It’s “run with the big dogs or stay on the porch” time.

Pachacutec @ 2:54 pm (#177) – I think Greenwald’s point is that senate Dems show no evidence of ever being disposed to using political capital.

I agree with you and Glenn. Personally, I’m not so worked up about the Hayden issue – I was opposed to his nomination, but there are some points to be made in his favor, but as a part of a pattern, it’s rather telling. The only one who seemed to break out of his straightjacket was Bayh – I still can’t explain that one. Feingold and Wyden are typically alone when trying to defend the Constitution from the intelligence establishment, with occasional assists from Rockefeller and Feinstein. The rest should all know better than to go along with all this stuff.

Jane, if you are throwing tennis balls for the dogs at the beach, STOP! Sand stuck to the balls “fur” will accumulate in the GI tract, & can lead to torsion. I like to use raquetballs ’cause they’re bald.

Mary – I have to ask what a “GSD” stands for. Granite State Destroyer? Do you mean BSDs?

LHP and Hilde,

Sorry I misread your original question. So far as I can tell, the netroots are good at viral campaigns and swarming of e-mail addys, etc.

Viral campaigns tend to be cheap and can be very effective because of peer influence, but I’ve only seen them from the right, and their objective either is to smear the opponent or to change perception of conventional wisdom more to one’s own favor. However, they work best when there’s enough CW embedded that the new info doesn’t seem totally out of character.

Setting aside Rovesque moves such as doing one of these against your own candidate, then blaming your opponent for using dirty tricks, that leaves eith pre-exposing the public to your own candidates flaws so that you can answer and neutalize them early or warn the public that swift-boating will be coming from the other side. The first requires sophistication, and I’m not sure that the latter will work.

A swarm kind of campaign (e.g., letters to editors, etc.) might be possible if they’d point up, say an opponents history of smears, etc. as a prelude to a campaign. Again, I’m dubious about efficacy. Maybe we can stimulate thoughts from other here, though.

Sorry that I can’t be more help.

EPU, I once left you a love note in the EPU zone but I’m not sure that you got it. Basically, it said that since I’m getting pretty good at EPU’ing, if I had my own universe it would be the meta universe and the end of all threads would be my zone. And EPU would be in it along with the null set. And everyone else. So there.

185 Hugh says:

May 24th, 2006 at 3:00 pm

Unlearned history

1. Bush makes an outrageous choice
2. Democrats promise a fight
3. Democrats cave
4. We rationale why they caved

1. Bush makes an outrageous choice%u2026

What’s hard to understand? Wasn’t it Einstein who said that insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result? Until we lose them or find a way to hold them accountable, this cycle is set on endless repeat.

___________

Precisely.

Pre-fucking-cisely.

Mary

What’s a GSD? I thought that stood for “granite State Destroyer”?

I take your point, but there a a lot of people on the cusp. Strong enough to stand up, but not strong enough to take the heat all by themselves. Also, standing up for the good guy is the right thing to do.

so many seldom seen posters here– yay!

EPU

What’s a BSD?

Gawd, I’m in acromym hell!

MrsK8, you and yours are remembered in The OC, too!

Gotta go. tonights the Dem convention for my county. Time to shake hands till I sprain my arm.

I’ve actually done that, had to come home and ice the arm after political nights.

Will check the comments whenI get home tonight.

Californians: Please don’t vote for Feinstein in the primary. This time vote for who you want, not who you think will win. I’m so sick and ashamed that this war monger lives in my beautiful San Francisco. Not a word of apology for voting for the Iraq war. Not a word when there were hundred’s of thousands of people marching in the streets of San Francisco protesting the war. She’s a real fink.

Jane, Christy, I’ve apparently been immoderate again. Don’t know why, except maybe for a run-on sentence I’d wished I rethought.

New thread to play with!

mommybrain at 198:

Aw shucks. Thanks. As you can probably guess, she’s got me wrapped around her little finger. Which at one years old is all of them.

Mary – BSD = Big Swinging Dick. It is a wall street term popularized in “Liar’s Poker” (pretty sure about that).

GSD is a German Shep/Dauchshund? Who knew?

Leviathan (#18), We all know that the dems are not in power and the president picks the nominees. Way to miss the point. We are the opposition party, and not expected to prevail in the voting. We get it. But being the opposition party, aren’t we supposed to OPPOSE the majority party once in a while? Isn’t that the point of a two-party system?

It’s not whether we win or lose, it’s whether we fight or cave in to thugs.

ccobb – that won’t change for many years, either. Mine is 7 now and he has tied so many knots I’ll never get unwound. Enjoy.

I think the Democratic leadership is continuing to do what it has done for so long, only more openly and more generally than the long years in which it has taken for granted it minority base. Like minority blocks, we progressives of all skin tones and gender zones have nowhere else to go. Congressionally, the party thinks it can stir us up a bit to get us to give what we can and drag our asses and those of some friends to the polls, but do whatever serves their own interests best when it comes to casting votes.

All apologies.

Newspaper retracts “Iran/Jewish yellow star” story.

No apologies from the initial perpetrator-Taheri as of yet.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WO…..iran.reut/

Is GSD andything like EPU?

-GSD

Woof. Woof.

-GSD

Cranky old man 19–LOL, I totally agree with you (though I fit your description to a T)–yet it seems this is the necessary end result of the 2-party system. If anyone has any ideas as to how to change the Constitution in for a Parliamentary one, let me know.

P.S., as to what can we do, I really think that something that would have a major impact would be to help Ned Lamont overturn Lieberwhine. That would send a loud and clear message to the other Republicrats out there that they ARE vulnerable and that we intend to make our displeasure known.

OT again: Maybe not totally speculative. Seems well reasoned enough to me. BTW- It’s another David Gregory story, not by Raw Story.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0524.html

Sorry EPU. German Shepard Dog = GSD.

I do a double take everytime I see Granite’s abbrev – but I am a huge GSD fan in both categories, so it fits. ;-) MOst G. Shep lovers use GSD and it is used in many of the breeding and dog performance docs

I’m pissed beyond words. I’m just sickened with disgust. We are 6 months away from elections, and the Dems have made virtually ZERO effort in making an argument for why the rethugs should be thrown out. They should have spent every minute since November 2004 in a) attacking the Rethugs, and b) selling themselves. I know there have been exceptions – Feingold, Conyers, Boxer – but I truly do not understand why the Dems have not gotten their shit together and worked as a cohesive unit to try to win.

Instead they’ve just been enablers. They are Republican lite. Why should voters be motivated to go and vote for them?

I know they probably could not have won this particular fight against Hayden, but that’s not the point. The point is that the Dems should take EVERY opportunity to show that they will fight the oncoming dictatorship. It’s all about creating a message, and they are either unwilling or incapable of doing it.

Mrs K8 at 61
That wierd phone snippet was probably either a ham radio or a CB operator with a powerful radio signal nearby. It’s called RFI in the ham radio world. It just overwhelms some electronic equipment sometimes. (I was once a ham radio operator, and it is one of the worst things you can do, but CB’rs don’t seem to care when they put illegal amplifiers on their rigs)
- sofistic

I just sent an email off to my Senator, Mikulski. I’ve told her she has lost my support as she has shown, by her vote to confirm Gen. Hayden, that she is not the leader we need. She and so many other Democrats continue to live in a fantasy land where Bush appointees might still be “high minded statesmen”. She cannot see or conceive that the Bush Administration is lawless and unlike anything we have seen in our lifetimes. Anyone who Bush appoints is going to be at the very least a slash and burn wingnut and at worst a law breaker. Democrats simply can’t get their minds around this fact. We, the people, are suffering as a consequence.

Thanks folks. I’m voting for Fernald based on her political experience – none, and real experience – 3 children

Dear FDL friends,

My instincts, honed by nearly 30 years of living abroad as an expat in Greece (I am friend and research partner of Charalambos 65) suggest that a new movement/party will be required to preserve/restore the Constitution and Bill of Rights. This new movement will, I’m afraid, have to abandon classical capitalism as the ideal for the “just” distribution of goods. I do not not know what precisely this new party would espouse, but have lately begun thinking – and discussing with Charalambos – about the possibilities of “equitability” and “sustainability” – neither of which, as we know all too well, characterizes late-stage capitalism.

Hi Jane -

My heart goes out to you. I am praying to any deity that can help to keep Kobe safe and well and to look after you, as well.

I hope all works out OK for you both – you’re in my prayers.

Kirk

Many, many thanks to all who responded here to both my weird phone phenomenon and with best wishes for fighting “our little girl” pupster’s cancer. Sorry I couldn’t (and still can’t) hang out here more right at this moment — real life annoyingly demanding attention. [How dare it interfere with my FDL life! Harumph…]

To clarify re the phone — no, it wasn’t raining today. It’s another boringly bright blue-sky sunny day in AZ.

sofistic — Your theory is interesting. Can you explain HOW our answering machine could act as a radio receiver when it’s just sitting there in inactive mode? I thought it took an incoming telephone signal to enable its “loudspeaker” function. Also — if a radio signal COULD be transmitted in such a fashion, what would then trigger the outgoing answering machine message (and just the last few words of it!) after the radio signal reception already occurred? Thanks in advance for any light you can shed here. It creeped me out.

Bullshit! Don’t cave or not criticize them because we want to win in November. Don’t accept their actions, or their votes. If they are wimps, hold them accountable. I am so livid about Levin and Feinstein’s vote. I won’t send one dime to them. I get twenty emails a day from democrats asking for money. I have been generous to the Party, but no longer. I will only give to candidates that have shown leadership.

Holding out for a win that may not happen, and IS, only going to happen because of the pubs and their corruption and the bungling which upsets the uppity base because of the dark skins crossing in from Mexico is a pipe dream. Remember, they still mess with the voting machines. They will STOP at nothing.

If anything the democrats have done everything to loose already by just pandering to the DLC consultants. Plus when any of them are interviewed, none of them are on the same page on any issue.

It’s to the point, I ‘d like to see someone in the Democratic Party suggest a diplomatic meeting with Osama, so we can put a STOP to all of these excuses for pissing on our constitution and the war profittering.

And just possibly, begin to open dialogues so that the endless loss of life can be curtailed. The “decider” a.k.a. the ulitimate arbitrator has everyone ‘gunning for us’ – if he issues an enemy combatent list, and your name appears
on the list – he can arrest anyone in the world. So if you want to give them a pass – go ahead. I won’t.

I am probably a lot older than most of you. I worked for the Dems for over 30 years, And this is the worst bunch ever.

Haven’t you all considered that the Dems are voting for guys like Hayden and not going after the obvious lawlessness of the Republicans because they are basically in agreement with current Republican philosophy? With a few minor exceptions the Dems prove this time and time again through both their words and actions. I am an “independent” voter who would never vote for a Conservative candidate and, as a result, I have no one to vote for. You see the problem here? I will be looking to vote for Green Party candidates when the opportunity presents itself.

I love Feingold. He is consistent. He loves the country and respects the American people, Constitution and rule of law – in other words he is a “DINO”. Who defines “DINO”? Certainly not the progressive Democrats. The party isn’t where Feingold is – the part is much closer to where Lieberman is. Lieberman isn’t the DINO. He represents the mainstream party values as defined by the party though both their language and action. Look at the way the DLC are actively attacking progressives that don’t toe the Dem Party line.

Come on guys there is nothing wrong with letting go of a failed party such as the Dems. In fact I don’t see how you can avoid it if you are progressive and paying attention. The Dems don’t respect you any more than the Republicans do. I know many of you won’t want to consider this as you would then have to seriously ask yourselves what the alternatives are. I agree this is a tough question but I have thought about it a great deal and have come to the conclusion that direct action is perhaps the only recourse we have left. I have no illusions that my votes for Green party candidates will have much affect but, given Dem party inaction and complicity, I am also no longer willing to support the Dems.

That’s right, I said direct action – a revolution of sorts. As we have seen through the actions of Gandhi and MLK this “action” need not be bloody (though in my darker moments I confess I wish for that) but, at this point I don’t see any other way.

2 cents.

.

It’s downright depressing to see so many Dems go along to get along.

And to think the Dems called me yesterday for a donation. I gave the caller an earful of exactly this as to why I would not give them a dime, until they stand for something.

When you get tired of being screwed check this site out:

http://daywithoutapatriot.blogspot.com/

It may never get off the ground but it is worth the effort.

Found this when emailing Feinstein:

Washington, DC – U.S. Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) today introduced legislation that would reaffirm that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) is the exclusive means by which our government can conduct electronic surveillance of U.S. persons on U.S. soil for foreign intelligence purposes.

Beyond this, the legislation makes significant changes to the existing FISA authorities and procedures to prevent bureaucratic delay in an emergency circumstance. These changes are designed to allow applications to move faster from the field to the FISA Court, and to allow it to handle any increased caseload that will result from bringing the current National Security Agency (NSA) program into the FISA regime.

“Our nation is at war against terrorists, who seek to attack us in unpredictable and asymmetric ways,” Senator Feinstein said. “It will be a long war, and it will be mostly fought in the shadows. Our intelligence agencies must have the necessary tools to thwart those who seek to do us harm.

“But it is important that we wage this war in a way that upholds our laws and our principles. We must not sacrifice the basic rights enshrined in the Constitution, including the Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures.”

“The terrorist surveillance program threatens those protections. As one who has been briefed on the details of the NSA surveillance program, I have come to believe that this surveillance can be done, without sacrifice to our national security, through court-issued individualized warrants for content collection on U.S. persons under the FISA process.”

“The way the Administration has moved forward with this program has brought us to the brink of a Constitutional confrontation. The legislation that Senator Specter and I are introducing today ensures that the surveillance program is being carried out under the law and restores the checks and balances between the branches of government.”

Specifically, the bill would:

• Re-state that FISA is the exclusive means by which our government can conduct electronic surveillance of U.S. persons on U.S. soil for foreign intelligence purposes;

• Prohibit the use of federal funds for any future domestic electronic surveillance that does not fully comply with the law; and

• Expressly state that there is no such thing as an “implied” repeal of FISA laws. In other words, no future bill can be interpreted as authorizing an exemption from FISA unless it expressly makes an exception.

The legislation also streamlines FISA procedures and provides additional resources to allow the process to move faster. It would:

• Extend the period of emergency electronic surveillance from 72 hours to seven days;

• Allow the Attorney General to delegate his authority to approve FISA warrant applications to two other Senate-confirmed Justice Department officials;

• Authorize designated supervisors at the NSA and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to initiate emergency electronic surveillance to prevent bureaucratic delay in an emergency circumstance, provided that the surveillance is reported to the Attorney General within 24 hours, and approved by the Attorney General within three days and the FISA Court within seven days;

• Expand FISA’s allowance for 15 days of warrantless surveillance following a declaration of war to also authorize 15 days of surveillance following a Congressional authorization to use military force or a major terrorist attack against our nation;

• Authorize additional personnel at the NSA, the FBI, the Department of Justice, and the FISA Court, to reduce the time it takes to initiate, review, and file a FISA application;

• Allow for additional judges to be appointed to the FISA Court as needed to manage the caseload;

• Facilitate a review of the FISA application process, culminating in a report to Congress designed to eliminate any unnecessary delay in the filings;

• Mandate the creation of a secure, classified document management system to facilitate electronic filing; and

• Require that the full Intelligence Committees be briefed on all electronic surveillance, and related programs.

“We’ve added these changes to help transform the FISA process into one agile enough to meet the Administration’s timeliness needs, while also preserving judicial oversight and our important constitutional privacy protections,” Senator Feinstein said.

Background on FISA Court

The FISA Court was created in 1978, following the Church Committee’s investigation of some of our government’s worst civil rights violations – J. Edgar Hoover’s spying on Martin Luther King, Jr., and Vietnam-era “enemies lists,” for example. These abuses were the result of domestic spying – electronic surveillance – under the guise of foreign intelligence.

In response, Congress, working with both the Ford and Carter Administrations, drafted and later enacted FISA to be the exclusive means to conduct electronic surveillance of U.S. persons. It created a special court that has to approve a warrant for every domestic wiretap, and provides for careful congressional oversight.

due to their fear — that they will be depicted as mean, obstructionist and weak on national security.

Perhaps. But I can’t help wondering if opponents of a regime that is known to conduct extensive warentless surveillance, lie to get their way, and conduct other Nixonian “ratfucking” projects might not be afraid of something more than looking weak. Who, after all, got the anthrax letters? And before anyone calls this a wild conspiracy theory, recall that:

1) The political targets were all Democrats
2) We now know the source was a US military bioweapons research facility
3) We still don’t know who sent them

– MarkusQ

fyi – i took pieces of this post (combined with digby’s) and sent it to my senator under my name.

mommybrain Thank you. ccobb, I am mortified, but that’s what I get for posting and running after just a cursory glance at the string. But I’m disappointed that so few in the left blogsphere acknowledge the good reasons for supporting Hayden.

Digby makes an interesting case for unified opposition, but I think it doesn’t stand in the face of: 1. the chance the vote could go awry and 2. the potential need for Hayden’s cooperation with a Dem majority next year.

The dems never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. If ever there was a time to take a stand against mass spying on our peoples,that vote for Hayden was that time. He was the architect of that Orwellian scheme…What a bunch of cowards, worse, no sense of outrage about privacy violations..

Besides, all this whining about spineless Dems puts me in mind of the 2000 Nader fiasco.

Confirming Hayden is not a big deal. One is inclined to believe that he is a pro and will be independent of Rumsfield. It was/is essential that a solid professional replace Goss. Hayden is arguably the best man for this job. There is no reason for democrats to despair over this issue. Just call it (for once) bipartisan – the way national security policy is supposed to be (and was, once upon a time).

Hi, Is my first time to comment; though I’ve been been reading FDL for about a year.
First thought is: I like the Fitz!! thing at the top. Why not? Are the complainers bandwidth misers?
Which brings me to second thought: I do sort of mind the constant imho btw etc. I asked a more seasoned blog reading friend who explained that the use of these forms is a remnant of the time when people were using primative equipment. It seems to me that some contributors are using these thing to excess as symbols of status or seniority; perhaps it would serve the greater good to communicate clearly and not ask more recent readers to waste their time figuring out little puzzles in the middle of otherwise consequential comments.
Which brings me to my third thought:
On the question of internal sniping within the anti-Republican movement:
The Democratic Party has local committees all over; so perhaps networks such as this one should encourage one another to go to the meetings and try to make a difference. Identifying DLC infested commitees and encouraging actual Democrats to take them over would seem to be a fine tactic perfectly suited to blog based organization.
Finally: On the matter of the Lieberman-Feinstein wing and how infuriating it is: This is tricky because the unspoken and apparently taboo subject of right-wing pro-Likud party influence in the party. It seems to me that the 70% of the American Jewish community that is actually progressive should stand up and make itself heard, and that these blogs would be a good place to start. Peter K

Don’t blame the soldier? Why not? Aren’t those who trash our constitution to be held accountable because they are just earning a paycheck and following orders? Feinstein, like Lieberman, is part of the problem.

Be well, Kobe.

I noticed that in your post Jane, you mentioned that it may not be wise to speak out against Democrats but I don’t think that matters. They have gone too long and too far to the right being handled with kid gloves. They grok nothing. It makes me sick to see Joe Conason cheering for Hayden’s confirmation, Hillary’s pandering on the war and now the goddess of all things, Arianna Huffington, is talking about Al Gore for president. Al Fucking Gore. Who sat in the office of the vice president and said nothing for eight years as Clinton sold us out on CAFE. If it weren’t for Bill Clinton, it would be law now that cars need to get something like 43 mpg. I could be wrong on the exact number but we certainly wouldn’t have seen the proliferation of monstrous gas guzzling SUVs the country has endured over the past decade.

Al Gore should have said then that it’s not right. But he didn’t. He has shown that the office is more important to him than the truth. So he can make amends by speaking out now and raising awareness, but it isn’t going to get him elected.

Even worse are those Democrats who are talking about Kerry. Hello?

You never see those talking heads Democrats talking about Russ Feingold. But here’s the deal, he showed, by being the one and only single US Senator to vote against the Patriot Act that he cares more for what is true than for what it feels like to be a big shot in DC.

I’m sure that at the time, people told him that re-election-wise he should go along –that his vote wouldn’t matter and that he should do the safe thing. But it did matter. It sure mattered to me and I started sending him money. Not a lot as I don’t have a lot, but fifty here and there, what I could. And so did a lot of other people.

It’s going to get ugly with the Democrats after the fall elections. There are a lot of Democrats and ex-Democrats out there who want to take the party back. And I think it is going to happen. And I don’t think anyone needs to be too concerned about speaking the truth. Let the chips fall where they may.

In my humble opinion, that is. I could be out there.

Sandy @256

Any relation to Alexander?

Prabhata 258 asks “Don’t blame the soldier? Why not?”

Go ahead. It’s what Bush and Rummy did so effectively with abu Ghraib. They used individual soldiers to cover their own criminality.

Hayden is too convenient a scapegoat — Bush ordered this, and he should be the one we make pay the steepest price for doing so. All else is energy wasted on a sideshow that lets the admin leadership (if that’s what it can be called) off the hook.

BREAKING NEWS. John McCain, on Larry King Live (CNN), virtually endorses Joe Lieberman. Says he hopes Joementum wins the primary, and when pressed by King about the general election, McCain says “I’m a loyal Republican” but makes it clear they are good friends and he hopes Lieberman stays in the Senate.

Just what the Connecticut Democrats need–a right wing Republican telling them who to nominate to represent their party.

Good reasons for voting for Fernald:

She’s not Dianne Feinstein. (Either that is a good reason for you, or it’s not. For me, it’s excellent.)

She is very much against the war. Unlike the useless lump that currently represents us and voted for the damn thing.

http://www.colleenfernaldforsenate.org/

From her site:

Priority Issues

* Restore Our Military for Defense, not optional conflict. Return the National Guard now; our troops next.

No type of nuclear weapons or use of torture.

# A Trustworthy Voting System.

# A Sustainable United States – Promote the local economy & living wage using smart development with a focus on natural resource preservation, climate protection, green building, affordable housing and clean, renewable energy. Provide a government supported healthcare system for all US citizens, and affordable higher education.

She is getting my vote.

shit, if the demtillians win the congress, it will be a reptillian victory.

In my opinion, the main focus of the “grassroots” movement is to clean up the government, get rid of the substandard and get it on a much better track.

Allowing the same bad behavioral seeds to continue to operate because it looks “bad” to critize defeats the whole purpose of what the grassroots movement is trying to accomplish.

Silence has gotten us the mess and substandard behavior we have today.

Urg, Democrats are the only game in town only because everybody believes that a 3rd party can’t win. If enough people quit believing this, then it would no longer be true.

Of course, I live in Massachusetts where the Democratic party is a good party so I can’t really complain.

BTW, I am not actually advocating voting for a 3rd party until one of these conditions is met:

(1) Everyone actually quits believing that a 3rd Party can win, or

(2) The Democrats take back both houses of the legislature and the presidency AND fail to do anything worthwhile (an event that will occur in 2008).

Nope, I just hate that argument – because it is only true as long as enough suckers believe it.

The majority of elected Democrats at the Federal level are more interested in polishing an image that washes with the MSM rather than the principles that the party stands/should stand for. The whole democratic process has been corrupted to mean nothing more than elections every few years for the ordinary voter who cannot distinguish the Democrat from the Republican snout stuck in the trough. The process itself is topheavy to embed disenfranchisement of the grassroots. Party decisions to support incumbents and its consequent financial implications in primaries is simply one manifestation of that and Hackett is not the only victim.

Given this, I have no qualms about criticising Democrats in an election year because if we don’t, we simply support further corruption of the democratic process itself. The process is corrupted enough with the judiciary being accorded the precedent of intervening in the election process. There are also inherent impediments to democracy in nominations for judicial appointments being the prerogative of the executive. True, this need not work as an impediment if the legislature took its responsibilities on principled rather than partisan grounds. But that does not happen.

I still believe that Democrats need to articualte a vision of what the party stands for. As it stands currently, it is an implied vision which invite Liebermans, Feinsteins, even Pelosis, et al.

I am not denigrating the value of strategic choices. I do despair the lack of concern to reform the process of democratic governance that hands over democracy to people more interested in creating an infrastructure to disenfrancise the grassroots electorate.

‘Crashing the Gate’ was one window to see what is wrong. To me the book’s message was what do we do to fix the anomalies. Sacking consultants is neither here nor there. We do need consultants to advise on building a national consensus re the party itself. Its how they work.

I am under no delusions. Lamont was a rare success story but the word here is ‘rare’. How many more Lamonts would it take to change the party hierarchy from operating in a rarefied atmosphere where the grassroots are written off except at election times? In fact, it does not even guarantee a return to real democracy unless the party stands for clearly enunciated principles and processes that primary candidates can be quizzed on.

Am I being stupid?

Jean Paul Satre identified the phenomenon of bad faith.

The Democrats are horrified by the idea they would be responsible for making any specific changes. So instead they dither.

If the GOP loses, then the Democrats aren’t really responsible to do anything except avoiding the noxious aspects of the GOP agenda.

And if the Dems lose, it’s basically a relief to much of the Congressional leadership that is too scared to lead on tough problems.

Mr. Goblin if the Dems take control of Congress and the presidency and fuck it up, it will be too late to start a third party.

The next wave of Republicans will make the current crooks look like moderates.

Carl Nyberg:

It’s not ‘if’ its ‘when’. I think 2008 will be a redux of 1992 through 1994 – when the dems had it all and blew it.

But hey, I really hope they prove me wrong.

The answer my friend, is blowin’ in the mighty wind of voter dissatisfaction that sweeps this corrupt, dead-ender failure of a Congress out of Washington and elects new people like Ned Lamont to change the way our country is governed.

Here’s a strategy for Democrats to take on the Hayden nomination vote that is politically smart and principled. They should abstain. This is why I believe this is the best course of action.

I’m a long way’s away but it seems some structual reform is overdue over there.
Some new way to adress the subtle (or not-so-subtle ) rural Gerrymander and the voting machine thang. This involves supporting those at the coal face like Dean, Feingold, Boxer, Murtha and even the other few who sometimes do something useful for a change.
Then we keep doing what we do well – sniping at Vichy’s and knocking them off in favour of genuine populist, oppositional netrootz grounded delegates that remain 100% accountable to the base in real time and at all times.
A loss in November should be spun by us as the Vichy’s fault and empower us to take them out en-masse. A victory must be a signal for full speed ahead investigations whatever pearlclutching and fainting goes on.
I’m even all for an ‘ open -source’ phase 2 investigation right here – right now. ( Or at one of the emptywheel/eriposte style blogs)
While we’re waiting for Fitzo this would keep our tummies from henia wouldn’t it?
Another project I would support is research on an entirely new netbased justice paradigm for global governance. Thinking really big and why not – this net thing is practically infinite.
This new paradigm would feature a) Large open source distributed and translucent databases.
b) Rotatable, revocable and recallable delegates selected for very specific and limited tasks by constituent assemblies such as the FDL swarm community.
These delegates would have to volunteer to live in a virtual ‘ Brinworld’ or big brother house and their lives would be an open book while they were on-the-job.
c) Public order and income redistribution to be done through net based market forces ala the Policy Analysis Markets or PAM plan. Participation in this to be voluntary and anonymous.
Jane Hamsher to be nominated for the UN ( united networks ) A guy can dream can’t he?

My paranoid thought is that the republicans are going to steal elections again. Wedge issues to stir up a small but very vocal group and then use their turnout to explain suspicous vote swings.

I wrote DiFi at the nomination of Herr Listner, please don’t give me a reason to not vote for you with a link to the famous 4th amendment “….if it’s one thing we know at the NSA…..” vidi.

So………a third party fu vote is in the works.

Not one of the Dems had the guts to ask Gen. Hayden if his people actually conducted warrantless wiretaps, and then said if this was the case, Gen. Hayden and his team violated the FISA law that requires warrants within 72 hours of the eavesdrop. None of the Dems had the guts to tell Gen. Hayden, in a public hearing, “General, if your people conducted warrantless wiretaps, they broke the law ! If you condoned that, you are a CRIMINAL, and you don’t deserve those 4 stars or the office to which Bush is appointing you !”

They should just vote no, without giving a reason. That would be the loudest message.

They probably figure no one who winds up at the polling booth this fall is paying any attention to any of this, anyway. So, why deliver any message. They’re not getting the feedback they need from their constituencies to react. And they’re certainly not forward-looking enough to lead. The whole lot on both sides of the aisle are cattle.

As are the populace, at large. The attention of the latter is continually diverted to trivial things that, after all, interest them most, helped along in this direction as they are by the corporatized, entertainment-oriented press. Such a jolly situation. Blame it on the schools.

You make a case for term limits Jane. It’s not that everyone needs them. It’s just that this is what happens when you don’t have them.

Your comment about fear (of waking the baby and losing) is on point, but what you leave out is that mostly about power. Some clearly re-imagine their leadership postions, but you need only consider their relationships with the camera to know it is about power and self, not the rest of us.

None of this bodes well for the common citizen. What’s the euphemism about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic? Increasingly we see the subtle and not so subtle posturing in pre-election anticipation of power, all while our constitution, economic and physical wellbeing are put at risk.

Tom Vilsack appeared on Charlie Rose last night. It was a singular milt toast moment brought to the viewing public by the makers of the DLC. I simply cannot remember seeing a politician painstakingly avoid taking some many political stands than Mr. Vilsack did last night.

His fear of making a mistake or getting caught taking a stand was enough to curdle milk. With leadership like this, who needs Republicans?

Absent real change within the party, this is my last election in support of Democrats. Though they may be far better than the Republicans, they are simply not good enough.