
The NYObserver has an article about the Libby defense strategery, and it includes a number of quotes from shifting perspectives in and around the case. It makes for an intriguing read, if for no other reason than the back and forth between the Libby supporters and the folks who aren’t so Scooter — and then the quotes thrown in as "realistic assessment" perspectives for color.
It is quite a fun read. Most of it is not going to be news to Plameologists in the audience, but it does weave together a narrative that asks some interesting questions about where Team Libby may be going with Scooter’s defense. And why. And how — and more importantly, how far.
From the beginning, the author, Anna Schneider-Mayerson, hits Team Libby and the Bush Administration where it counts for them — in their credibility:
Now, as the pre-trial jousting in Mr. Libby’s case picks up momentum, the onetime loyal West Wing confidant—Dick Cheney’s Dick Cheney—will have to choose between protecting himself and protecting the White House. Specifically, insiders say, he will have to choose between a not-guilty verdict and a Presidential pardon.
“It does put him in this difficult situation of putting the administration on trial,” said a lawyer in the case. “Things are coming out that would never have come out, solely because he’s going to fight the charges.”
As Mr. Libby’s lawyers serve demand after demand for evidence that they hope will exculpate their client, special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald rallies back with briefs seeded with less-than-flattering assertions about Mr. Libby’s bosses.
Responding to Mr. Libby’s lawyers in a May 12 filing, for example, Mr. Fitzgerald included what many considered to be a shocking and revealing document: a copy of The New York Times Op-Ed column “What I Didn’t Find in Africa,” written by former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson and calling into question some of the Bush administration’s claims regarding Iraq’s nuclear-weapons program, annotated in Mr. Cheney’s script with the question: “[D]id his wife send him on a junket?”
On Friday, Mr. Libby’s lawyers filed a response with the court, saying their client hadn’t seen the clipping until the F.B.I. showed him a copy—an argument that served to distance himself from the Vice President, if not exactly contradicting him.
But more importantly, this exhibit painted a picture of a Vice President angered by the column, and with clear knowledge of the relationship between Mr. Wilson, his wife and the circumstances of his trip to Niger.
This is the second time that Mr. Libby’s lawyers have been slapped in the face with information that they themselves requested to aid in his defense.
As I said, nothing that we haven’t discussed before — and this sounds a bit like what looseheadprop was saying the other day, doesn’t it? — but the subtle snark is delicious and the narrative weave of the three page article is tightly done and well-written.
My favorite part of the article was the discussion of the defense strategy of trying to broaden the discussion to confuse the jury (the smoke screen) versus the tighter stick to the indictment charges prosecution, which seeks to constantly narrow the focus of the case. This is pretty typical as the intial fight — but the stakes in this particular case are so much higher, simply due to the players involved.
One obvious tactic for defendants is to argue that they were simply executing orders. Yet Mr. Libby’s team is taking a more nuanced approach, trying to strike a balance between painting a portrait of Mr. Libby as charged with massive responsibilities in his role as Mr. Cheney’s deputy, and not pointing the finger at his boss. In other words, a consistent defense that is still not embarrassing to the White House.
Lawyers said it was impossible to know whether there were lines of inquiry that the defense was not pursuing at the behest of Mr. Libby….
“There are some times people might go down and say, ‘I’m not going to raise this, I’m not going to do this’—friendship, family, employers, it could be a whole host of facts that could enter into a decision,” explained a lawyer with a small involvement in the case.
But some with experience in these types of fraught situations said that while clients will typically comply with their lawyers’ suggestions, sometimes that resolution is hard-won.
“There is a real tension there, because you’re doing your utmost to defend your client, who has extreme loyalty,” said a Washington lawyer familiar with independent-counsel investigations. “It takes a lot of convincing with a client to let you do your job to complete the defense.”
The lawyer added: “It’s going to be very, very difficult to get Libby to point the finger to one or two above him—if that, in fact, occurred.”
For everyone who has been griping about why this case takes a long time to prosecute and to investigate, this is why. When you are working a case where loyalty to the higher-ups is an ingrained part of the culture — mafia, certain gangs and drug environments, etc. — you have to draw out the time a bit to allow for the potential of incarceration, what that means to the family, to the defendant, to others under investigation — all of that has to sink in a bit. Libby has to take a step through the looking glass to the other side — one where he realizes that all is not what it has seemed, that loyalty is only valued to a certain point, and then it becomes all about saving someone else’s ass by sacrificing your own.
What this means in terms of Scooter’s willingness to flip is anyone’s guess. Thus far, he’s seemed to stay fairly loyal to his former boss, Dick Cheney. But that doesn’t mean that it will always be so — especially if things keep dribbling out from discovery that show that Cheney has been cooperating quite a bit.
Or if poll numbers keep going down, down, down for President Bush — making it next to impossible for a pardon to remain a potential on the horizon. At that point, it becomes every man for himself. So how about it, Scooter — why not save yourself and everyone else the agony — spill now before you are too late.
As an aside, David Shuster said earlier on MSNBC that Hardball will have some former US Attorneys and an update on the Fitzgerald investigation, Rove, and the Libby prosecution, among other issues, this evening at 5 pm ET and 7 pm ET. I’m not certain that it’s break out the popcorn time just yet, but I’m gonna check my supply just in case. It pays to be prepared.
(H/T to reader T- for the heads up on the NYObserver article.)



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Fitz!
Roots and Fitz!
Fitzhello!
There’s a bus with Scooter’s name on it. I wonder if that’s sunk in yet.
OT – Jack Shafer at Slate has a great piece about the idiotic NYT Clinton marriage article.
http://www.slate.com/id/2142255/?nav=ais
excerpt: Healy could directly ask, “Is Bill cheating?” Instead, he writes a donut around the subject. As the piece spirals out to 2,000 words, the donut grows into a 20-inch Michelin radial, and the radial becomes a NASCAR oval. The experienced reader finds himself searching the infield of this great expanse for what appear to be clues.
and
This is the sort of news story that when read leaves you knowing less about the subject than when you were merely ignorant.
Catching up on the news after a weekend with my sick mother and a few days blindsided by back pain. Then I read Mistress of Her Domain, which was the best laugh I’ve had in days- but the pain! Jeez it hurt to laugh, but was well worth it. Thanks Christy.
Hope your Mom and back heal quickly, Carolyn.
Thanks, angie. A good indictment would rally me I think.
I like the refresh comments button. I can’t see Libby flipping. A pardon is never going to be off the table – once the midterms are over, George can pardon everyone he wants to preemptively. They like doing preemptive stuff, these guys. Of course, that would still leave a civil suit and a grandstanding lawyer to work with.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn’t. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn’t be. And what it wouldn’t be, it would. You see?”
ALICE
OT but important: I just caught on CNN Ehud Olmert (in a joint session of Congress) whooping up the wardrums — sitting behind him was Dick Cheney visibly nodding off. Is this a serious medical condition or too much of a joint session?
Dang – I’m trying to read CTG, follow this thread and listen to Air America Radio, all at the same time – keep losing my place!
I might be gettin too old for this multi-tasking…
I don’t understand why dropping poll numbers would make a pardon next to impossible.
Is a presidential pardon the final word? Can one be undone? I remember talk of investigating Clinton’s pardon of Mark(c?) Rich and wondering why they would bther to investigate if there was no recourse.
Repsot from EPU position agt bottom of last thread:
115 looseheadprop says:
May 24th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Pach,
1) how, other than by saying harsh things about him in a comment would I be able to repudiate Leapold? I’m not challenging, I want to know how to go about it.
2) How does that antidote the intimidation of Schuster et al?
My concern is that there are so few reporters actually doing their job on this story that it kills me to see one get slowed down or (heaven forfend) stopped.
I am less interested in how we punish leapold, because frankly ever mentioning his name again will only help his click through rate, than how we protect a good guy.
Everybody-
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I have been somewhat involved in candidate recruitment and endorsement processes here in the Empire State and quality individuals won’t run b/c they fear swiftboating.
The guy who is going to run against Peter King uses as a selling point that he has been previously swifbaoted in the race for the office he now holds so his family is as he puts it “battle hardened” and “shock proofed”.
We also know that the Rovians are planning to slime PJF if he indicts turdblossom.
So, how do we combat the swiftboating? How do we create a rapid repsonse team? How do we pre-inocculate?
How do we neutralize swiftboating as a technique?
You know in the Harry Potter books when the Hogwarts students are learning to countercurse the bogarts in the closet? They are told to imagine the scary monster as something funny and and the magic word they say is “ridiculous”. And the scary thing turns into the funny thing.
How do we either do that kind of magic or find a way to exact such a high price for swiftboating that the cost/benefit analisys makes it impractical to use?
folks we need a “stategery”,
Put on thinking caps (not tin foil ones) throw out brilliant ideas.
I find it strange that nobody is seriously looking into this *ilson– he is next in line for the POTUS and this is the third time in a few weeks that he is caught sleeping…would this happen if it was a Democratic admin? It’s pretty amazing, the press virtually giggles about his shenanigans and there is either something terribly wrong with him physically or he just does not care. Either is pretty significant.
Nice to know Olmert keeps up his diatribe. A chip off the old Chimpy. Must have studied at the same school of diplomacy– they both flunked out.
Robbie — politically, for an exceptionally weak president to take that step — at least before the mid-terms, is next to impossible. And depending on how the mid-terms go — well, things could get even worse for Scooter’s pals.
I don’t see Libby flipping either.
Here’s what Libby needs to do: what Richard Scrushy, the HealthSouth CEO, did when he was on trial (and what got him off). Judge Walton has already pointed out to Team Libby that a D.C. jury is going to contain a majority of black people (not verbatim, but he implied it). Like Scrushy, Libby needs to make friends with a lot of well known, visible black people, black leaders in D.C. (Hey, I didn’t say it would be easy.) He needs to start going to black churches on Sunday and singing loud gospel songs with the choir and swaying to the music with his arms outstretched. He really needs to become an evangelical Christian. Scrushy hired black pastors to attend his trial and hired p.r. people to write favorable editorials in black newspapers. Scrushy basically “campaigned” to get the black community on his side, and it worked.
Allright!
‘Nother FDL stripe, a hat tip from Redd no less!
That’s way better than a FITZ!
If only I could get a post quoted…that ain’t going to happen.
Well this is cool anyway, a Fitz post with a mystical picture of one of my favorites…the White Rabbit.
Cool song by Jefferson Airplane.
Now where’s that caterpillar?
When last I heard, (last summer) the Marc Rick pardon investiagtion was still still an open case at the USAO SDNY. BTW that one may also have Scooter at risk. he was Rich’s lawyer for hte parsdon application.
So, unless Mike Garcia (a Chertoff protges and the new US attorney here)has closed the case???
Thing to keep in mind, Scooter is reputed to be an expert in pardon law.
I still think a pardon is the end-game here. The only thing I muse about is “when”? When will the pardon issue? Libby’s trial doesn’t begin until after the Nov. 2006 elections….so a pardon on the eve of trial is a possibility. Or….Libby goes to trial, gets convicted of something, he stays out on bail pending appeal…lengthy appeals process….and, before you know it we’re past Nov. 2008 and Bush pardons him. The timing of the pardon is the only thing that has me curious.
I just don’t think Libby will flip. I think he’s been given the “high sign” awhile back that he’ll be taken care of by the WH.
Ghostman
Previous Post John Casper @81
All valid points but ultimately you’re banging your head against a wall if you’re expecting the corporate media to change.
They have evolved into real-time myth managers for their masters and it is a tribute to the Internet and the Blogosphere that their lack of credibility is now reflected by lower corporate earnings.
IMO, the media consumer is becoming savvier and is fully enjoined in the battle for, if not truth, then plausibility. (Leopold’s ‘checkered past’ is dutifully noted but ascribed a true measure as only one piece by the sum total of context and source)
The Blogosphere is slowly informing the media overlords that history is being re-written and perception enlightened.
To paraphrase a writing maxim, ‘Action is character’:
Character is action.
Deeds speak.
To enter the pit with these slimeballs and play their game, serves only to poison your own message.
~
Libby has been given a legal defense fund and PR operation.
I don’t think we see or hear anything about Cheney from Libby until the very latest time possible.
Why rat out your golden goose now.Keep that defense fund money comming,and wait til the last minute to do it.
I bet when Cheney goes fundraising for Republicans,someone is also raising funds for Libby’s defense also.
3 questions:
1. I assume that there is no possibility that a verdict could get delayed so long that it would be issued after Bush is out of office. Am I right?
2. If there is any possibility that the verdict would come out after Bush is out of office, can the president pardon someone before that person has been convicted of anything – kind of a preemptive pardon? I have a vague recollection that Bush’s father did something like that for one of the Iran-Contra criminals.
3. Regarding this comment:
“Or if poll numbers keep going down, down, down for President Bush %u2014 making it next to impossible for a pardon to remain a potential on the horizon.”
What does Bush’s popularity have to do with his ability to pardon people? It seems to me that he’ll pardon Libby regardless, just to save his own ass. Whether or not his ratings are in the toilet is irrelevant.
Thanks.
I read the Observer article. They we saying that everytime Scooter does something to try to defend himself, he ends up pissing off Bush/Rove/Cheney and if they get mad enough, they won’t pardon him.
Regardless of how low the thief in chief’s poll numbers sink….I fail to understand how that can keep him from granting Libby a presidential pardon….providing Libby, of course, continues to protect their sorry asses.
I just dont see Bush giving a shit what anyone would say or think about it…..I mean really.. since when has he ever exibited that trait
Can someone help me on this?
Angie @16 – RE: Cheney’s apparent narcolepsy: Do you think it’s a kind of Roosevelt/JFK thing with the reporters? They never mentioned Roosevelt’s polio or JFK’s (Hansen’s? What was the name of his ailment?) either.
Talk about being painted into a corner…the object lesson for why our mothers always told us we should tell the truth.
If Tweety calls upon Joe diGenova and Victoria Toensing this afternoon, it’ll be the same old, same old. Expect them to drag out the “she wasn’t covert,” and “Wilson’s a liar” and little else. I hope he has on some legal minds that are not already shilling for the administration. He had Lawrence O’Donnell on the other day, and he was trying to read the tea leaves based on whether Fitz asked Rove to appear or Rove asked Fitz for another shot at the grand jury. O’Donnell said Luskin said it was Fitz who asked Rove, and that probably means Rove is not in as much danger as people want to think – that if Fitz had a good enough case to indict he would not ask him to appear again.
Was thinking today that because these cases are all interconnected, the more discovery that takes place in the Libby case the more information that may help Fitzgerald in the Rove case, and in any other cases he’s looking at. Fitzgerald’s case against Rove could be sort of waxing and waning as the Libby case develops, and I am convinced that Fitzgerald will not indict anyone until he is sure he has as airtight a case as it is possible to have.
As for Libby? Can’t feel sorry for him, and hope that just when he thinks it can’t get any worse, it will.
I don’t understand why Bush’s low approval ratings would prevent him from pardoning Libby?
Seattle:
1) the trial is set to begin January of 2007. It will not be a 2 year trial, so Bush will still be in office when the verdict comes in unless he resigns, dies or gets impeached first.
2) Bush Sr. premetively pardoned Casper Weinberger on the eve of trial
3) the poll numbers have to do with Bush pushing his own party into open rebellion if pardons. Remeber it was republicans that went to Nixon and told him that if he did not resign they would impeach him
nevermind. sorry
I would have to say that thus far it appears, on the surface anyway, that Libby has been poorly represented by counsel. I realize that perhaps in most cases it is to the defendant’s advantage to have things delayed and strung out. However, I am not at all sure that precept necessarily always applies, especially as it pertains to very high profile political cases involving possible, and knowingly intentional criminal acts. If the primary object is for the defense attorney to provide the best possible legal advice (good and bad) to the client, then I am not at all sure Mr. Libby has been served well. I think if I were Scooter, I get another lead lawyer. One willing to tell him things that Libby may not want to hear. Libby might have needed to cut a deal a long while back. And if I were him, I’d do it now before it’s too late. Rove, Cheney and Bush are not men of principle. For them, loyalty is defined extremely marginally. And Libby is not part of their big picture or inner circle. Scooter ought to rat ‘em out. Don’t wait for the pardon Libby. This man’s only chance is to come clean.
BTW, Where IS Wolcott?
24, Seattle: remember, Ford pardoned “citizen” Nixon pre-emptively. Nixon never was brought to trial, or even indicted.
26, larry: I think you’ve summed it up perfectly!
Ghostman
*ilson46201 says:
May 24th, 2006 at 11:36 am
OT but important: I just caught on CNN Ehud Olmert (in a joint session of Congress) whooping up the wardrums %u2014 sitting behind him was Dick Cheney visibly nodding off. Is this a serious medical condition or too much of a joint session?
———————————————————-
I really believe his health is failing. I just can’t see him faking something like this. It’s humiliating. I think his health was quite poor to being with, and the stress of shooting an old man in the face just pushed him over the edge. There’s a very real possibility that he’ll die (or at least be incapacitated) before he leaves office.
*ilson46201 – I prefer the joint session explanation. Medicinal, doncha know.
mommybrain– Kennedy had Addison’s disease. Both men were able to do their work, though. I mean, Cheney is sleeping on the job in front of cameras. Seems so darned weird. In this day of instant news, one would think people would be asking just what is going on…
I clicked onto Amazon and they served me Timmeh’s book front page.
Si, I ordered “Lapdaogs” and “Crashing the Gate”.
Sorry Timmeh, you big front page loser.
There’s a two-prong consideration on a pardon the way I see it: (1) political viability — not just for Bush, but for the GOP in its entirety, and their numbers as a whole are looking pretty peaked these days, which makes pardon consideration thorny at best. Definitely not before the mid-terms this Fall, but if you wait until after that point, and there is a Democratic House and Senate, what does that mean in terms of repercussions? Is it worth risking that it will still happen, even when there is a possibility that it will be off the table? Is it worth risking the wait for a last minute as he’s leaving office pardon, knowing that some of that time could be spent in a federal prison?
And (2) as the article hints (and looseheadprop says above in 25) the more Libby pushes his defense forward, the more things come out about the way the Administration works on the inside for public display and discussion…and the more he risks pissing off those still on the inside. Libby is outside the circle now — will they close ranks entirely if he keeps pushing? How much is he willing to risk to defend himself? If not everything, how much is he willing to bet on a sure thing pardon — his children’s lives? His wife? His family’s happiness? That’s a lot to ride on Bush keeping his word, isn’t it?
There’s more to the consideration than a “can he or can’t he” — you have to think of it in terms of “will he or won’t he.” Of course he can, but whether Bush’ll spend political clout on someone who is now on the outside is another matter entirely. Especially given his penchant for petulant tantrums when he thinks someone has crossed him.
A pardon could also wait until all appeals are exhausted, extending the time to well past Bush’s (presumed) exit.
mommybrain –
think Kennedy had addisons disease
(adrenals) don’t think it was properly disagnosed until 61 or 62 – he’d been treated incorrectly up till then – but yeah, the press never commented on his apparent health issues
fyi – the college girl has been accepted in to GMU – graduate Int’l Relations/Peace Corps program – happy dance !
Re: Libby’s future pardon.
It’s not as simple as it looks. First of all, he can’t be pardoned from a civil suit, and Wilson is going to hit him with one. This is all headed to open court. They may be able to greymail a civil suit, but it’ll be tough, especially if it comes after Bush leaves office.
Second, remember what Libby’s on the hook for: Lying, perjury, and obstruction. If he gets pardoned on those charges, Fitz will immediately subpeona him to testify before the grand jury again, and he’s at risk for an IIPA charge. His chances of beating an IIPA charge are much better than his chances of beating the current charges, but an IIPA charge (or even worse, an espionage charge) would be a political nightmare for Bush. The other option for Bush would be to pre-emptively pardon Libby for an IIPA violation. Very risky, since a pardon implies guilt. That’s risking impeachment, even with this rubber stamp Congress. Even his father would have to say something about it.
Cheers, cbl!
Frank Probst @ 35:
FYI- Cheney is the undead, technically this allows him to be elected to multiple terms…
Regarding pardon. I don’t think that low approval ratings would necessarily stop him either. But as others and I have mentioned in previous threads, if Democrats take control of Congress after mid-terms they can start investigations. If Bush has pardoned Libby (and Rove?) by that time they cannot plead the fifth before Congress and must testify truthfully or face more perjury charges. Even preemptive pardons cannot immunize future behavior, only prior bad actions. Therefore, pardons are risky for Bush & Co. and their lawyers probably know it. That reality is our the best hope that this all comes to trial first.
#32 Oklahoma kiddo:
I don’t agree that Libby is not being represented well. He just doesn’t have a good defense ;-)
I read the May 19 Libby filing, and I’ve been waiting for a new thread to bring up a quote that made me think of Rove…
Libby’s filing says on page 2:
In addition, Mr. Libby wants to show that the government’s witnesses were also involved in responding to the allegations in news articles, and that their recollections about their conversations with Mr. Libby and others on this issue may be inaccurate or confused.
This fits the defense that “I forgot because Valerie Plame is such a nobody.” But it may also be a strategy to get access to ROVE’s testimony “afterall, HE ‘misrecollected’ too, and HE’s got photographic memory!”
It just struck me that Libby could use Rove’s perjury as a validation of his own: “See? EVERYBODY was confused, it wasn’t just me! Who would believe we’d BOTH lie, eh?”
I’m just saying, is all.
cbl – GMU, mine alma mater! Their int’l relations dept. is excellent and Peace Corps rocks. Have several PC alums in family and friends. My sister spent almost 3 years in Nepal, came back to Montana to get a degree in public administration so she could reform the PC. Maybe they’ll run into each other some day ;-)
Oklahoma at 32
I don’t know that it is fair to say that Libby has been poorly represented. HE HAS NO CASE!
Wells knows that and said as much to Walton. The defense is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
Libby is a very experienced lawyer himself. he knows everything he needs to know about cutting a deal. He is making a huge mistake, but not out of ignorance or because no gave him striaght talk.
This is part of the “rules are for other people” culture epitomized by the Bush family for generations and Cheney during his own lifetime. (Don’t get me started on the failure to prosecute Neil Bush during the Savings and Loan scandals)
Think of how Libby is alleged to have gotten Marc Rich his pardon. Supposedly by bribibg Clinto with campaign donations. Huge donations. Getting the best justice money can buy.
Frank Probst-
Thanks. I hope you’re right on this.
Scooter’s a weasel. He should go down.
T-
Has anyone noticed the new strategy the GOP seems to be trying? The reason the republicans are unhappy with Bush is the fact that…now get this….he is too liberal!!!!!!This is what MSNBC has been spouting all day. there is an interview with one of those right wing nuts coming up at some point to illustrate this. If youy think this is too wierd, the Pennsylvania GOP revolt last week seemed to revolve around this. Can you believe their insanity?
Thanks to all…regarding my question @ 26
I agree with Robbie (#13). I think the dead-in-the-water President is more of a loose cannon and even that is not necessary to a pardon, which was undoubtedly guaranteed to Scooter in exchange for not being very forthcoming. It will be delivered in Bush’s waning months in office along with many others. The only thing Libby’s lawyers need to do is drag things out until shortly before that date. They will all be golfing in Scotland in the Summer of 2009.
And then there’s the real possibility that the Libby case will not be the only one involving the White House inner circle. If Rove gets indicted, if new charges are brought against Libby – like conspiracy – if enough comes together to bring indictments for the original disclosure of Valerie Plame, it’s only going to get harder, not easier, to consider pardons.
Once we get through the mid-terms, the focus will shift to 2008. If the balance of power in Congress shifts after the mid-terms, the stakes for 2008 will not only be retaining GOP control of the White House, but getting back control of Congress. If Bush’s numbers are still in the basement – and I can’t see any way they won’t be – I can’t see the GOP leadership thinking that wholesale pardons of people who conspired to uncover a CIA agent would help in that effort.
Which is not to say that Bush won’t still be operating under the delusion that he still has political clout %u2013 would he take the political risk that pardons represent just to satisfy his own ego?
Thanks for a great comment in 42, Frank.
39: well, the ONLY thing that keeps me puzzled re: pardons is what type of damage the WH might take via a trial. And here I mean possible testimony of various folks, defense and prosecution witnesses. I imagine that has various WH advisers scratching their heads as well.
But as to Libby, I don’t think he’ll crack. He’s a hard egg…a true believer. He probably thinks he’s somehow being “heroic” thru all this.
42: I wonder if there’s some sort of Statute of Limitations on Wilson filing a civil suit? I would think that the “wrong” occurred back in June-July, 2003…we’re now coming up on 3 years after.
Ghostman
If Bush pardons Libby and Rove before the election this November (assuming Rove is indicted, of course), I believe its effect on the voters would resemble the eruption of Mt. St. Helens. Every Republican running for re-election would be at risk to be defeated, no matter how secure their re-election appeared to be before the pardons. This is why Bush’s hands are tied. There is no legal barrier that prevents him, just the fear of political fallout.
Bush also has a personal stake in the outcome of the election. If the Democrats win enough seats to gain a majority in the House or the Senate, they will gain control of the committees that would have commenced investigations of White House wrongdoing long ago, but for the Republican majorities on each committee voting against any investigations. I believe Bush realizes that it’s in his best interest to retain Republican majorities in both houses of Congress.
Could someone help me out here with some questions? I don’t mean to jump the Cheney gun, but if the Scooter gets a pardon, could he be forced to testify against the Shooter? I’m thinking along the lines of a Congressional committee sometime in the future. And if the Shooter gets a pardon, could he be forced to testify against Bush in front of a future Congressional committee?
Is a pardon the same as granting immunity?
I like the way Fitz keeps pulling rabbits out of the document hat, with an implied “Take THAT!”
One thing I’ve continued to wonder about the Cheney-decorated Wilson-op-ed is — who gave it to Fitz? Where did it come from? From someone who can testify that Scooter did in fact see it?
We just don’t know — and more important, neither does Scoot’s team.
And if the whole boat looks like it’s going down (or burst into flames, depending on your transportation metaphor of choice), then doesn’t that change the pardon outlook? One of the things I’ve thought is that Scooter’s team is trying to fish for what exactly Fitz has — because they (and their connected roots in the WH) don’t really know. And Fitz throws them a bone now and then (and what bones they are) but they are still left wondering what’s still to come. As are we all.
I’m saving 39 for the next time, someone asks about pardons, thanks Christy, breathtaking clarity.
Something else that’s gonna happen over the next 2-3 years is Valerie Wilson’s book. Which damn well better be a tell-all. Was she working on Iran WMD, or wasn’t she? Was she covert, or not? What security situations were compromised when she was outed? Girl, we want to KNOW.
Two other thoughts about the pardon:
1) further to Redd’s analysis, irving has to gambel here on the midterm elections, if the Dems take back Congress (if you read the Cook Report, that’s lookin’ better every day) there probably won’t be any pardon.
But the only time for Libby to make these motions is now or never. So if he makes the motions to preserve some shred of defending himself, he risks exposing more things crawling around under the WH rock. Which in turn increases the likelyhood that the Dems win in the midterms.
But if he doesn’t do anything to defend himself and the Dems win anyway, he is screwed, but if he does try to defend himself and he pisses off the WH enough in te process, he is screwedd, on the other hand , and on the other hand, and on hte other hand.
you see it just keeps going around in circles. Pretty much, no matter what, he is looking a huge downside potential. It’s a bad year to be Irving.
2)If he get’s pardoned, no 5th ammendment probelems and he can be forced to testify. Immunity = equals spilling the beans.
OT – Another move by the administration to hide information while helping out their business buddies. Apparently now it is okay for companies to file incorrect SEC filings to hide profits and investments dealing with “national security” issues. Any bets if Halliburton has already used this power?
Whoops forgot to include link.
http://www.businessweek.com/bw…..=rss_daily
“Irving”
LMAO
thanks Angie – mommybrain – I remembered you were an alum
allow me to brag a little – she received an invitation from Georgetown and UTexas – neither of which offered the accelerated MA, plus PCorps.
go Patriots!
My mom had a really hard time staying awake as her symptoms of heart failure worsened twd the end of her life, tho sleepiness certainly was never any problem earlier in her life.
Wonder how much oxygen’s getting to ol’ deadeye’s brain these days.
S’pose it’s too much to expect medical folk among FDL crowd to pull a “fristie” & diagnose from this distance, eh?
Or . . . could it be that the man of iron ain’t sleepin’ so well these days. What?! HIM worry?!
Must admit I sorta like the idea of him nodding off a lot, just so long as they keep that nookulur button locked in another room far out of his reach.
lhp – I love that you call Libby “Irving.” I think we should all do it. Makes me laugh!
choochmac, thanks for the link, I have zero confidence in Bush’s choice to lead the SEC, Chris Cox.
60: one thing to keep in mind on Plame’s book: by federal law, her entire manuscript must be submitted to, and approved by, the CIA before it can ever reach daylight. I would imagine the CIA might do some heavy editing.
Ghostman
“…or JFK’s (Hansen’s? What was the name of his ailment?) either.”
JFK probably had Addison’s Disease (adrenal insufficiency). Hansen’s Disease is leprosy, a fine Biblical infection that I hope Jehovah will inflict upon Bush, Rove, et al.
Hey Frank P. or any other lawyer,
What’s the statute of limitations on the Wilson’s civil suit?
And what is the X date it is marked to?
T-
Chris Cox of Channel 1 fame ?!?
and hey lhp – we always refer to him as Irving in our house – I do a very snarky Judy Miller in throes @ the St. Regis – busts my husband up everytime – scares the dog and embarasses the teeager -lol
cbl @71 re Chris Cox…
No, you’re thinking of Chris Whittle, completely different animal (though equally devious)
Anne @67
Don’t thank me, thank his parents. I did’t pick that name out for him.
Re: Cheney falling asleep
My dad has the same type of heart issues that Cheney has (heart attack, stents, pacemaker and defibrillator) and he has trouble staying awake sometimes in the afternoon. Its partly due to a drug he is one, can’t remember the name, but I think it lowers his blood pressure which slows his metabolism down. FWIW, it could be similiar thing with Cheney and not necessarly a “worsening” of his condition. I do think, however, that it is odd that no one in the MSM is remarking on this.
A little OT.
But, whenever you hear some dolt praising the president because the US “hasn’t been hit by terrorists since 9/11″. Correct them for being inadvertanly wrong or deliberately misleading.
After 9/11 there were 7 anthrax letters that infected 22 people and caused 5 deaths.
Those terrorist attacks have never been solved.
-GSD
Cheney is the only one right now who knows for sure who gave Fitz the article he made notes on. If Cheney wanted the questions answered, who would he give the article to? I think BushCo read Wilson’s article several days before publication. The paper waited until Sunday to publish it. Because BushCo proofreads all media work, don’t they?
McGhee – thanks
don’t know how I transposed that in my brain
Cos was an also ran in the last SEC nom. go round
Actually, it was by using the “Irving” and “Team Irving” nomenclature a while back that I figured out some lurkers in my own cirlce of aquaintances.
I was absolutely dumbstruck a week after I started using that term, at who I heard saying “Team Irving”.
Had a coffee spewing moment in a meeting of some very fancy, very republican lawyers. Dropped my pen and glasses, generally made a fool of myself. Last people in the world I would ever expect to find reading here.
GSD, in addition major terrorist events on US soil were 8 years apart, ‘93 to ‘01.
T-
Re: Cheney –
Maybe the “October surprise” this year will be that Cheney falls asleep and never wakes up. That would take a lot of things off the front page.
With all the talk about pardons and what was done with the Iran/Contra band, I’d love a recommendation or two of a book on the subject. Anyone?
We also had the OK city terrorist attack in 1995…
GSD – my usual response to the “we haven’t been hit again since 9/11″ is “just because someone has never had cancer doesn’t mean they’re healthy.”
I should have added to my post at #56 regarding pardons that Bush would have little to fear regarding political consequences for issuing pardons after the elections this fall, unless the Democrats win control of one or both houses of Congress. If they do, a pardon might be the match that lights a committee’s fire, so to speak, and causes the committee to start an investigation. Of course, I doubt that a committee would not already have decided to start an investigation but, with only two years left in Bush’s term of office, the committee might decide to forego a time consumming investigation that might not end before his term of office. Other than publicizing his wrongdoing, there wouldn’t be much reason to pursue impeaching Bush. Pardons might change that, however.
I may be wrong and I hope that I’m wrong, but I think Bush decided long ago that he will not step aside and allow someone else to be president. I don’t believe that he will permit a national election to take place in 2008 and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the election this fall cancelled. If I’m right, we will be at war against Iran and the timing isn’t a coincidence. And after Iran comes Syria and Lebanon, Sudan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. Even if all of these so called wars of liberation go swimmingly well for Bush, they won’t be finished by the fall of 2008.
This is the not-so-grand neocon plan that David Wurmser wrote in 1996 for Netanyahu, the newly elected prime minister of Israel. Entitled, A Clean Break With The Past, it urges a radical time of war to destabilize the Middle East and we’ve been watching the movie since Bush invaded Iraq, which was the first country targeted for “regime change.”
Hate to say it, but we’re living in a dictatorship now.
Frank Probst at 11:56 a.m.
RE: Cheney’s health
Cheney is under a lot of stress for more reasons than just shooting an old man in the face. He has his own miserable job approval ratings, and he must be constantly worried that Libby or Rove or someone else will squeal on him re: the Plame investigation. Then, there’s Iraq. He may also be worried just wondering what stupid thing Cluster%$#@ will do next.
GSD- #76-good answer. The media continues to suffer from the anthrax syndrome. It sure keeps them in line….
Don’t know if its been posted here yet, but emptywheel has a interesting narrative up giving a broad overview of the the whole Plamegate saga. She is breaking it up into a few posts. This one is concentrating on the many motives involved in the exposing of Plame.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c….._a_wh.html
Rev. Howard 70 – LOL!
Didn’t Georgie Peorgie play with armadillos as a child? He needs a visit with Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever.
OT: On Cheney – I remember seeing a photo of him sleeping at some function or another. Whatever it was, it was regular government business, which meant it was most likely during the day. Didn’t get much play in the press, as I recall.
Just got back from the golf course- can’t find any news about Fitz and the Grand Jury. Anyone see anything.
82 – there’s always Lawrence Walsh’s (the independent counsel) book, which I haven’t read (”Firewall: The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up”) so I can’t recommend it or not. I have no idea what other books are out there, but if there’s a really good one I’d like to hear about it too.
Here’s one of the pics of Cheney asleep from dear Jamie:
http://www.intoxination.net/20…..ain/print/
#4 at 82
Don’t have a book to recommend, but when C asper Weinberger died a few weeks ago CSPN rebroadcast a whole lot of footage from that era. Really spot on stuff. Maybe you can get it on their website?
OT – CNN – doing a piece on the bushies and skull and bones
Don’t get me wrong I am all for ousting this warmongering, reckless, ______ (add your own adjective here) president. But I have to say I have mixed feelings regarding actually impeaching him out of office if Dems get control of Congress. Won’t we be stuck with Cheney. And if he actually goes down as a co-conspirator, do we want the speaker to serve as President. It seems like a lot constitutional anguish for what will be a probably only a year or so of continued Rep control of the Presidency. Am I delustional or would a better alternative be broad investigations that continue to drip, drip, the offensive and illegal behavior of the administration, so that Dems will have a better shot at the White House in 2008.
Cheney as Undead -
The Myth of Sunlight: Vampires are creatures of the night, living and feeding in the darkness. In traditional medieval times sunlight did not kill the vampire. In fact, vampires could walk around like anyone else. In the novel, Dracula, vampires could move around in the daytime without their strength and powers. It’s only been in the recent history of fifty or sixty years that the new tradition of Sunlight killing vampires has emerged. Popular culture, movies and novels have made sunlight the ultimate vampire killer. However, if you ever run into a real vampire don’t be surprised if they don’t explode when sunlight hits them.
and make sure to use a crucifix, not a cross if ever confronted by his Darthness !
Here’s the other picture of napping Cheney:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/popup?id=1871301
cbl at 97 –
LOL. That one made me almost snort Diet Coke out my nose.
OT: From today’s Froomkin:
If I understand this correctly, Bush is saying it’s OK to draw a new border around all the other settlements in the West Bank, and just call it part of Israel. Am I missing something? If I’m not, this actually sounds like a rather dangerous level of support, not to mention possibly counter to the U.N. Charter.
cbl @ 12:48 pm (#97) – Actually, some vampire myths say that it just has to be a symbol of something you believe in, and the power of your belief is what will deter the vamps.
I’ll bring my Darwin fish.
choochmac–I think he and his crowd must be impeached not only for the benefit of the American people and our Constitution, but also for the world to see that we will not tolerate the crimes of this administration or allow them to go unpunished. Just my humble opinion. The “pain” that the nation will endure while undergoing an impeachment pales in comparison to doing nothing– besides, sometimes doing the right thing is painful and unpleasant but the results are satisfying and well worth it.
GSD @ 76
After 9/11 there were 7 anthrax letters that infected 22 people and caused 5 deaths.
Those terrorist attacks have never been solved.
By ‘never been solved’ if I understand you to mean that the perpetrators were never caught, then this is true.
If you mean to suggest motive, a solution to the terrorist attack has been theorized that it effectively ensured passage of the Patriot Act.
Similarly, the Ricin attack coincided with deliberation of the Pentagon’s fiscal ‘05 budget.
Probably just a coincidence.
choochmac @ 12:48 p.m.
There’s nothing about Hastert that I particularly like, but I’d rather have him as president than bush or cheney. The key is to get rid of Cheney first (felony indictment?) Then the president appoints a new VP according to the Constitution, as Nixon did Ford. Then when we kick Bush out, that person becomes president. Of course that opens up a whole new set of nightmares–President Frist? President Rumsfeld? Name your horror.
angie 98 – I wish there was video of the sleeping cheney creature. as a photographer, I know it’s very easy to catch people in a blink – most cameras press photogs use can take 8 pictures every second. I’m not trying to stick up for the “one that is all evil,” I would just love to see definitive proof that his office couldn’t play off as a fluke. Evidence that there can be no excuse for.
no choochmac, you are the first AFAIK. Thanks, it’s a great overview up until “leak week” which she will post in a few days.
OT rw, Christy’s analysis here of “Irving” via a NYO piece is the only thing I have seen in addition to the emptywheel review that choochmac linked to.
No matter how bow beaten the underlings are, I am sure they have told the VP no more sleeping on the job. That he dozed off during his only official duty is an indication how sick Dick Cheney is and how deep corporate media is in the White House’s pocket.
The Middle East is becoming more and more unstable. The other night on NewsHour Nir Rosen, reporter just back from Bagdad, said events inside the Green Zone have no effect on the reality outside in Baghdad, where militias control the street, where there’s a civil war raging. Sooner or later some outside happenstance will rip the US hands off the tight rope; a GOP defeat at a Congressional or Presidential Election, Crash of the US Dollar, the escalating Iraqi Civil War, or the Taliban’s resurrection in Afghanistan. A delusional President and a sick Vice-President can well lead to the situation where another roll of the dice, bombing Iran, is preferable than the current deteriorating stalemate.
Why is the upper bar of my comment in purple on my monitor? Does that mean it is in moderation, or what?
neurophius – it’s not purple, it’s dusty rose and is jamie’s new feature. I rather like it.
Cheney falling asleep could certainly be due to his heart. The likely meds he takes for hypertension and heart failure are probably slowing his heart rate and can drop the blood pressure as well as causing some dizziness or drowsiness. He is possibly on diuretics which can make people tired, not directly but because of what they do. (remove fluid from tissues and lungs). He is also overweight and if we watched what time these lapses occur, they may be tracked to be after a meal. He is just much older than his years in terms of his health and condition; he should be 75 pounds lighter and doing a lot more cardio than he does. Hunting isn’t cardio.
As for Rove’s visit to the GJ, per O’Donnell. One of the things we discussed when this all happened was that the GJ may have wanted to see Rove for themselves and get their own questions answered directly, rather than relying on a reading of previous testimony. It sounds like O’Donnel didn’t raise that.
In order to sell gas-guzzling SUV’s, GM is offering a $1.99/gallon gas card good for a year. Any takers?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..;cset=true
angie 16,98 re: Sleepy Dick; I think this is a ruse to set us up for Deadeye to resign for health reasons, as a cover in case he really needs to resign for “other” reasons.
Lobstergirl @92 and lhp @94 – Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll be digging around for both, and if I find anything else interesting, I’ll let you know.
Cujo, I think you have it.
The only caveat I would hesitatingly add, is that this is the stick to get Hamas to the bargaining table right now. AFAIK, this is the plan, for six months from now, if nothing develops. Easily could have my facts wrong, however, I have not been following the story closely.
angie @ 12:48 pm (#98) – Yes, that’s the one. I think that’s Rumsfeld in the background.
twolf1 @ 12:54 pm (#104) – Just need a video camera, I think. Many digicams will do both still and moving images.
good afternoon FDLers,
After a long day’s work I’m resting my legs from walking DC yesterday-and halfway through How Would A Patriot Act?Kinda hard to put down.And I gotta work tonight too-damn
Chochmac at 96
Re “speaker of the House serving as President”
Do you mean Speaker Pelosi?
Mason 85 – frightening thought. Googled Clean Break and will read resulting search documents. If you’re right (and I hope you are not),’splains a lot.
neurophius @ 103
ok, but first puhleeze can we decommission Addington ? a wee bit of pleasure for this blogger (ok a huuuge bit of pleasure) to see Darth dangle about w/no David even if only for a week or two – that’s all I ask – then we frogmarch the bastid
This “refresh comments” deal reminds me of that 108 minute countdown deal on “Lost.”
IF, hope against hope, Bush ended up being an unidicted co-conspiritor in the SAME case as Libby and, hope against hope, Rove, could he still pardon them and any others involved?
Looseheadprop#48 and clbrune#46…points well taken.
Yes… I would have to agree with the idea that Libby doesn’t have a good defense. On paper he surely appears not too. I would want to ask then: on who’s shoulders for a good defense does it fall. Is it the client’s, or counsel’s responsibility to formulate a “good” defense? Recognizing that Libby is himself a competent lawyer, does not alter that I am mindful of the saying that an attorney representing himself has a fool for a client (or some variation thereof). If a lawyer realizes his client’s defense is insupportable (and in Libby’s case that should be an easy call) then would it not be in the client’s best interest to seek other opinions (recommended by the client’s counsel of present employ), and if on a succession of subsequent alternate counsel opinions of insupportability, then upon recommendation of good and competent counsel cut the best deal possible? So the question I pose is: if a defendant has an insupportable defense (as in perhaps Libby’s case), yet his lawyer pushes or acquiesces for acquittal, even though the client advocates same, then is the client being adequately and well served? Or is the defendant the victim of poor representation?
angie a 102 -
Good point about the international angle. Hadn’t really incorporated that aspect into my thinking. I also think that the principles involved are worth defending, the realist in me just worries to some degree that this would be seen as Dems getting back at Reps for the Clinton impeachment saga and it would seen as fair game for now on to use impeachment as a regular political tool, instead of what its intended use is. I think the key will have to be to break this “national security” firewall and uncover the whole range of laws this administration has broken/bent/rewritten and hopefully the whole country will understand that this time (like Watergate) its not just politics.
The purple around the comments mean it is the one you just posted. When you post a comment it also loads in other comments that were submitted while you typing your comment. Since that could mean a few extra comments being thrown in when yours appears, it helps to identify where your comment is. This only happens while on the page. As soon as you refresh the entire page your comments will appear the same as everyone elses.
Jamie
OT, but DFA has a $50k bat up for Net Lamont — they have already raised almost $42k!
Do you think that Joementum and Schumer and the DSCC folks might be a tad pissed at Howard Dean?
new thread
Crooks and Liars
Did we know this. Voice of America, run by the US Government, has had no reporting in Iraq for 6 months because it is too dangerous?
But it’s all good, because schools are getting painted???? One more nail…..
CBL 119
Addington is certainly near the top of my list, right below Rove and Cheney. (Google Addington torture and you get over 72,000 hits). But I could certainly go along with your strategy.
looseheadprop @ 79 – “Had a coffee spewing moment in a meeting of some very fancy, very republican lawyers. Dropped my pen and glasses, generally made a fool of myself. Last people in the world I would ever expect to find reading here.”
There are closets, and then there are Closets, some of them deeper than others. Be gentle with your lawyer-aquaintances, ’cause coming out is not always easy. Maybe encourage them to talk some more in private with a simple “Are you a friend of
DorothyChristy?”the snoozing Cheney I saw was from video on CNN during the Olmert speech to Congress today — I’m sure the entire speech (barf, barf) is available via CSpan replay…
Oklahoma at 122
If the lawyer has told the client the truth about how dire his situation is, and if the lawyer reasonably believes that the client realy understands, the lawayer is obligated to follow the client’s instructions.
It is the client, not the lawyer, who will live with the consequences of that decision. So long as the client’s instructions are lawful (no subjourning perjury for example) the lawyer is ethically obligated to either do as the client instructs or resgn the representation.
A lawyer is not entitled to substitute his judgement for the client’s any more than a doctor can substitute his judgement for the patient and perform and operation over the patitent’s objection.
It’s Libby’s life. He has the right to destroy it if he wants to.
OMG! Peterr at 129 — that was a tea spewing moment for me. Mwahahahahaha…
Coffee, tea, and lil’ ol’ me?
GSD @ 76
That anthrax stuff never happened. Better to spend your time figuring out who will get to plant the new Iraqi flag at the Mars landing site.
And that Chinese fighter colliding with a US spy plane, well that was just a bad dream, sweety, probably caused by the stress you were feeling over the Clinton Recession…
Peterr,
Would never ask them to come out. T’would be tactless of me.
With many of my friends, you never actually “say” anything, you just somehow “know”. If you don’t know, you are not a good enough investigator to be in the club and so you shouldn’t be allowed to know.
I just thought I was hearing a lot of familiar slang (still do) and thought I would plant some so that people who I thought were testing the waters with me could “out” themselves if they chose.
It not only confirmed the readers I had suspected, it astounded me with some I never would have guessed in my wildest dreams.
The best interrogators, never ask any questions.
Why do several posts have
%u2014
where a word should be?
Peterr – Forgive my ignorance – Friend of Dorothy as in wizard of oz dorothy as in judy?
Mary — we had an issue with tranferring a comment typed in Word to the comment template on the website. We’re working on a fix. (Or it may already be fixed, I’m not certain at this point in the day.)
mommybrain,
Don’t know from personal experience, but “are you a friend of Dorothy” is sort of a code for one gay person to ask aother if they are gay.
The idea being that a clueless straight person would answer “no” unless of course they actuall had a friend anmed Dorothy at which point lot’s of confusing conversation would ensue.
Mommybrain at 137 — A “friend of Dorothy?” is another way of saying homosexual? — but it is more subtle, so as not to alert those of delicate dispositions who might be adverse to others having such knowledge. (It’s a 40s or 50s term, as I understand it.)
Thanks for the cultural instruction, everyone. I thought that’s what it was. Does anyone actually use that now?
zennurse – re: O’Donnell
You’re right – O’Donnell did not mention that as one of the possibilities, and as I was listening to him, I was wondering about whether the GJ itself might have asked to have him back. I don’t know enough about how the GJ system works to know whether the GJ always gets its way.
Mary, the first time I saw that symbol was in a discussion about the president who will come after Bush and was %u2013. I assumed it was a reference to the inauguration for her second term ;-), as it fit perfectly. Thanks for getting that cleared up.
Christie @ 139
“Friend of Dorothy” refers to the Wizard of Oz, and yes it means a homosexual.
looseheadprop #131
My response would be that the attorney of record would have two options, if in his opinion his client had no case and after advising his client of the facts supporting insupportability the attorney could 1)withdraw from the case (sometimes after getting required jurisdictional court approval, depending on circumstance. It has happened), and advise the client to seek other representation or not. 2)continue on the case for whatever reasons in light of knowledge of sure defeat.
As an attorney, I would reserve unto myself the right of refusal. Many cases are refused at the time of initial attorney/client interview. Are you saying once a lawyer takes a case he’s stuck with it? No matter the merits? Or lack of merit.
I’m a niece of Dorothy. Really. ;>)
If I wre Scooter, I’d worry that Cheney would die in his sleep in front of Congress and the TV audience. Really bad PR.
Here’s the way the pardon works.
With all of the stuff Scooter knows (not to mention other potential indictees in this case), can this organized criminal enterprise REALLY accept Scooter (or, say, Rove) sitting around in a federal prison with nothing standing between him and freedom but him telling even half of the things he knows about this administration’s criminality? No way.
So they gotta pardon him.
Low poll numbers? That’s just like love – something else that means nothing left to lose. They’re going to risk exposure of the wide range of their criminality to keep their poll numbers from dropping down to eighteen per cent from twenty-five? No way.
Investigation after Democrats take over Congress? Investigate what? The Constitution gives unfettered pardon power to the Executive. No questions asked, no reasons needed. Besides, these criminals are going to be investigated over LEGITIMATE matters one way or the other by a Democratic house of Congress, and they’ve already decided how to handle that – not respond to subpoenas, fight them in the federal courts, utter some nonsense about the unitary executive, and stall for two years, until they get out of office or until Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Scalia, and one more give them a pass. No prob.
So the only question is when.
Before the November elections? No way?
The trial is in January. If you’re going to pardon Scooter anyway, why wait until after the trial, and risk damaging evidence coming out during the course of the trial? Discovery is already killing them. Go ahead and get the pardon over with, as far in advance of the ‘08 elections as possible. Give voters time to forget. Besides, people like Scooter have a sense of entitlement – they not only feel like they shouldn’t have to go to jail for their crimes, they feel like they shouldn’t even have to stand trial for their crimes. If he had to go to trial, he might get offended, and figure he should get his own ass out of jeopardy (by rolling over) rather than wait for the Oval Office to ride to the rescue.
So Bush pardons him – and everyone else (Cheney, Rove, Bush, Hadley, Rice, everyone else you can name, leaving no one for Fitzgerald to investigate, thus requiring no more testimony from anyone) between Christmas and New Year’s, when everyone is out of town and not paying attention to news. And when they have a lot more to worry about – like the war in Iran (that Iranian war gives good cover in any number of ways – e. g., “I can’t have my national security staff tied up testifying in a political trial during a time of war.”)
I agree with you, Ghostman – Libby has the “high sign” – just hang in there until after the elections, until after Christmas, find out as much as you can about what Fitzgerald knows, and by January, we’ll have you off all possible charges, set you up with some nice corporate welfare job, and get all of your legal bills paid to boot.
Oh, and that civil trial stuff – it’ll have to be dismissed due to national security concerns – see for examples of how this is done
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05…..ref=slogin
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..08_pf.html
They’ll try to use this “state secrets privilege” in the lawsuit against A T & T over the illegal wiretapping, too. And probably get away with it.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s just the truth.
Any of you that saw Cheney nodding off on CNN, if you have info on specific times, send to crooksandliars at gmail dot com so they can track it down and hopefully get a clip and post it for all to see.
Who needs to worry about a pardon when it is so easy to listen in on the prosecutors phone calls?
hi, working today & just dropping in ( the OZ imagery is so apt!)
but… “the dead-in-the-water President” ~Paehlke at 12:11 pm
- is radioactive.
this from the today’s WIRED blog (longish quote, but important):
“…One, there’s something mighty humorous about a bill legalizing a secret executive action and creating a path for judicial challenges to that secret action, given that the Administration has justified its spying by saying Congress and the courts have no say so in the matter. Actually, on second thought, it’s rather more pathetic than humorous.
Two, I’m not sure I understand the secret court of review. This isn’t the secret court, this is the appeals court for the secret court and its only ever met once. The court hardly even knows how to operate. Nobody knows how to appeal a ruling by that court? Does it go to the Fourth circuit or to the Supreme Court or is the secret court of appeals its own supreme court or is there a secret supreme court?
Under the Specter-Kyl bill, it doesn’t matter though. The court will never get to review the program, since the only way to launch an appeal is to prove you have been affected by the program, and since the evidence from the program is either never used against persons in a court of law or is used in secret, how can you prove you have standing (e.g. the right to contest a rule)?
For a more full explanation, this great German (rather Austrian-Hungarian) blogger has the scoop.
“Our authorities as far as I know, and I only know the lowest grades, don’t go out looking for guilt among the public; it’s the guilt that draws them out, like it says in the law, and they have to send us police officers out. That’s the law. Where d’you think there¿d be any mistake there?” “I don’t know this law,” said K.
“So much the worse for you, then,” said the policeman. “It’s probably exists only in your heads,” said K., he wanted, in some way, to insinuate his way into the thoughts of the policemen, to re-shape those thoughts to his benefit or to make himself at home there.
But the policeman just said dismissively, “You’ll find out when it affects you.” Franz joined in, and said, “Look at this, Willem, he admits he doesn’t know the law and at the same time insists he’s innocent.”
Oklahoma,
No I am not saying that once the lawyer takes the case he is stuck with it, just that he is obligated to follow his client’s instructions if he stays on.
Are you a lawyer? In NY under the rules of professionla responsibilty, a lawyer has to let his client take the stand to testify even if it is over the lawyer’s objections. Even if he kbows the client’s going to lie (he just can’t particiapte, he must sit mute and let the client tell narrative) b/c to withdraw at that point would alert the jury and prejudice the client’s situation
Difficult LAwyer,
You are describing one of my nightmare scenarios. The other involves a Saturday Night MAssacre. Similar analisys, just different method
looseheadprop @ 153:
Not necessarily mutually exclusive.
“Mr. Fitzgerald’s services are no longer necessary, and they interfere with the prosecution of the war on Iran by the unitary executive.”
Or some such nonsense.
Serves to tie up any loose ends.
Re Pardon: of course that is the end game. The trial is just after the midterm election, right? So W can wait until the eve of the trial, after the election. It doesnt really matter whether the Dems win back one or two houses. Bush will pardon Libby for ALL crimes relating to the outing and the investigation of it. If there is a congressional investigation, a fully immunized Libby can testify that he and not Cheney was responsible for the Plame leak. End of story. The Repubs will simply push their alternate reality in the media and justify the whole thing as pushback by a faithful lieutenant against disloyal and mendacious democratic party appeasers. The page will be taken from the Iran-Contra playbook: full pardon of all crimes related to the outing, paranoid rightwing narrative about the need for toughness in a world of terrorism, nuclear blackmail and blowback from decades of American imperial overreach. OK, not that last part about the imperial overreach.
I must say like the hair dye and colored contact lens the Albino pervert Irving uses. Cute.