Fitz.

Fitz-a-tude

SOB.

It’s a good photo to get out there, Christy– to few actually get seen, never ask for forgiveness when telling the painful, shameful, heartwrenching truth…

Cujo from last thread.
That’s not a bad analogy. If the tax breaks were really meant to stimulate the economy, then give them to people who’d put every penny back into the system ( the good old Keynesian multiplier ) instead of people who just invest the money back into their portfolios, which makes the market numbers look pretty but does nothing for the economy in general.

And before anyone bitches at me that I didn’t mention the Iraqis and Afghans and everyone else caught in the crossfire…I purposely didn’t even go there. It’s just too painful for me today. If you want a full update, I’d suggest Swopa at Needlenose or Prof. Juan Cole. Now if you’ll pardon me, I feel the need for a cup of tea before I start outright sobbing.

FITZ !!!

I made sure to listen to Radio Nation for Christy’s interview, but that story got my attention, too.

Rummy’s loony and we can’t take care of our wounded soldiers, especially the PTSD ones.

Shame, shame.

Absolutely appropriate photo.

Ya gotta love “compassionate conservativism”. It’s making the world a better place. No, really.

Things have gone south horribly since 2003; I’m fairly certain that my stepson has not had to serve a second (or third) tour in Iraq because he (along with most of his group) was diagnosed and treated for PTSD. They were all of them put on drug therapy, kept on base for a period of time when they returned, and stayed on drug therapy for over a year when they were discharged. I don’t know that they got any counseling, although I did encourage my stepson to get whatever was available. He hasn’t said much, being reserved and closed-mouthed like his father, but over time little bits have dribbled out of him when I leave an opportunity open; I know in spite of being in a “good” area in Iraq that he and his brethren suffered mentally for their efforts. It pains me to think what the troops who served in “bad” areas of Iraq have gone through and what they must suffer to have to return, can’t even begin to imagine the mental hell. And we don’t know when even the troops like my stepson, who now appear to be functional, might snap under the weight of what they carry within them…

These civilian f*ckups that are running the military, chickenhawks who never served, learned nothing from Vietnam because for them it was as abstract as it was for the AWOL fortunate son. Our flesh and blood are now having to pay for their gross ignorance and incompetence. God have mercy on our troops; their administration surely won’t.

Another insult to our veterans:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/…..index.html

Records on 26 million veterans were stolen; how many veterans are there, anyway?

How can anyone participate in an invasion like that (or any kind) and not get PTSD?

If we’re going to send our soldiers into that hell, we should be comitted to caring for them if and when they return.

So, SO wrong. I think there’s probably a bias against not being “able to take it” in combat. I think of the scene in Patton when there is a major chewout of a soldier who’s depressed, and I would imagine that’s the norm instead of the aberration.

The soldiers around those suffering from mental illness should be the first to call for their “fallen” friend to be off the front line. Depression is a whole body illness. It stunts cognitive capabilities, reaction times, the willingness to be on the “look out” instead of the “look in”–and many other faculties that one might consider important when trying to avoid being blown up.

In other words, one mentally ill soldier puts all the rest in danger. Stupid, stupid people we have running this thing.

Rayne-

Sounds like your stepson is at least lucky to have someone like you around…

“I have had and continue to have friends and family in and out of Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere in military service. That their safety is so threatened by inept governmental policies is bad enough, let alone by fundamentalist hatred stoked even further by asanine, provocative public statements from our own President like “Bring them on” or “Axis of evil” only makes it worse. But adding the stress of having to watch your back even more closely with comrades who might be ready to snap — but who are pushed back out on the line anyway — is horrible, for everyone involved. On so many levels.”

I believe those words by Ms. Smith sums it all up very eloquently. I also believe that it is not necessary that a President to have been in combat to be an effective leader…but he damn well ought to at least learn of the very deep, fundamental, and extreme agony and terror that a soldier goes thru before sending him off to battle. This WH seems to treat combat and battle as some sort of game. Of course, this WH is so misguided.
John Murtha also speaks repeatedly to the same things Ms. Smith writes of today. This WH repeatedly refuses to listen, and repeatedly beats its chest as to how brave they in the WH all are. And its a sham. And a shame. The President wants to lecture US on the shameful conduct of a reporter who writes of wiretapping? No, Mr. President, the shame is on you. On you, and all your WH little boys who’ve never seen death, never been truly fearful, never had to huddle and squat somewhere praying that you don’t get your ass shot off. Oddly enough, the few people at the WH who sought caution before invading Iraq were Powell and Armitage. Powell, Army veteran, Armitage, former Navy Seal.
More people should read this article above. And more people should listen to Mr. Murtha.
I think I’ll take a little walk now.
Ghostman

“We-CARE-about-you-We-are-compassionate” BOOM BOOM BOOM!

I watched Baghdad ER last night. I don’t think one of the doctors interviewed wanted to be there or even agreed with the war. One said something like (not a direct quote) “I Have to believe that we are making a difference, it’s all I can do” (referring to the war, not the medical staff’s outstanding job) – almost trying to convince himself of it. It was rather depressing but well worth watching. If you are squeamish, you will have to avert your eyes from the TV a few times, it is true reality TV.

“I’m sure George Bush is hoping that most of us won’t bother to watch it” — just like Chimpy isn’t going to watch Gore’s new film on global warming. He’s scared of learning. Remember, dumb voters are easy to persuade.

charlie rangel has had the solution but nobody listens, partly because charlie’s of puerto rican heritage & doesn’t speak english as if he had larchmont lockjaw — but charlie’s smarter than 99% of the folks in washington

charlie says we need universal conscription — that way our leaders will pause before starting wars lest they send their own offspring into combat — moreover, if everybody’s kids are at risk, folks at large won’t be so eager to swallow our leaders’ bullshit

but this is a touchy subject: progressives don’t like the draft any more than nutters do — we’re going the way of rome, which had a thriving republic till the elite started shirking their military duties — in the final stages, romans relied on barbarians to do all their fighting for them, so the barbarians took over rome from within: contrary to popular understanding, rome didn’t fall owing to invasion — invasions took place from time to time but the rot grew from within

now america’s doing the same thing — nobody in congress has kids serving in iraq — we all know that nobody on bush’s team has kids serving in iraq — what’s worse is that the national guard troops bush is sending to the border are military recruiters: the parallels with rome are striking — where is the outcry?

It is unrealistic and unfair to subject our service men and women to the intolerable stresses of repeated combat deployments. 40 years ago, as an enlisted Marine in Vietnam, experience taught me how deep and destructive an impact combat can have on a person. In later years, as a criminal defense lawyer for many of my fellow Vietnam survivors, I became all too familiar with the ravages that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder was working on their lives. We destroyed countless futures in Vietnam and now we’re destroying a whole new generation of patriotic young Americans. It just isn’t fair and it is clear to me that we’ve either got to end this misguided travesty of a war in Iraq and bring our troops home or, heaven forbid, we’ve got to start drafting entire fraternities full of tough-talking college Republicans to help our worn-out troops fight “the enemy” (whoever that Hell that is). In fact, I think the first draftees should be the 17 grandchildren of George W.H. Bush, and then we can bring Mary Cheney aboard and then we can work our way through Congress, the Supreme Court and so forth. You get the idea.

I meant too few in my #3. Christy, it is more than SOB producing– it is a horror. You are always mindful of the massive destruction to all; I, for one, can see no reason on earth to pick on you. The damage and ineptitude is staggering– it is beyond a cluster*&%@– it is a series of crimes against humanity and “morality” and anything good. I, too, have waited with dread and fear for those in danger to come home and then experienced profound anger for the neglect and disdain with which our troops are treated– this is insane and must stop.

I hope you find this helpful. You make me feel not so alone with these posts and I thank you.

I came to FDL because of a link I found that commented on savvy female bloggers. I was grateful for the talent and passion that you and Jane exhibited daily and the Plame/ Fitzgerald coverage. But, I stayed because of the community that truly understands and seeks to make a difference.

When it comes down to it, it was about getting our country back on course and showing the world that all Americans aren’t bushbots. The Fitzgerald investigation is all about the lies and the killing and the utter disdain for anything other than absolute power– it is not what he is investigating, but it is at the bottom of it. You cover it all and the community gets it and contributes and stays.

Thanks again.

I think General Patton was nearly relieved of duty in WWII when he slapped a soldier in a hospital for what they then called battle fatigue. Patton thought he was facking, for some reason. What is happening now is much worse.

Besides all the concerns you mention, Christy, I’m also a bit concerned about having folks in combat who are on such medication. As I understand it, the usual process for anti-depressants and the like is to start on a dose that more-or-less makes sense given the person’s age and size, then dial it back or increase it until it’s just right. Anti-depressants have unpleasant side effects, which is why patients often stop taking them even though the drugs are helping their moods. This fact alone seems like a good reason to not want them in combat. It makes the situation extra dangerous for those around them.

Anyway, I think those veterans are right – this is a lot like Vietnam in the effect it’s having on the military. Given that it’s also an all-volunteer force, they’d better hope for a major recession so that recruiting doesn’t dip further.

Amen Redd

I don’ get cable. Had a chance to see BagdadER, but I decided not to watch. But I hope everyone else does.

I’m lucky so far. My son, Zach, is Iraq. It’s his birthday today. He is 26 and relatively safe in a desk job for now.

This blog-and others- helps me cope in many ways.

Thanks.

so this administration cannot or will not care for its warriors and repeats the sad, awful lessons of Vietnam (among other things)–why do rightwingers no propose censuring Jimmy Carter? Puh-leeze…to expand what Mary said before,it’s not only toasters Buscho will stick a fork in to see what happens–it’s anything shining and humming along…

wesgpc @ 3:53 pm (#21) – I’ve worked around soldiers and ex-soldiers for a long time. All I can say is that among the combat veterans, they react to that stress differently. I could never figure out what made some come through it a bit traumatized but functional, and others complete basket cases. Many of the folks who are still functional strike me as moral, ethical people. Many of the folks who didn’t strike me as being strong and intelligent. It also seems to be a mystery to the veterans as to why this is.

I don’t know why it happens, but it’s clear that Patton was one of the rare ones who actually thrive in such an environment. Such people aren’t likely to accept that others can’t cope with the condition.

My first thought when I saw the photo above was: It’s time for a female president. Alas, the only potential candidates are Hillary and Condi.

John Warner, Chairman of the Armed Services Commitee is one of my Senators (the other is a nutjob, and hopeless). Although I disagree with pretty much all of his positions, I still believe he’s a principled and honest man.

I’m sending him this post, and the Courant article. If this doesn’t force some kind of oversight from the ARSC, what hope is there?

The Courant article is genuine journalism – all the more amazing when you think of the barriers Rumsfield & Co. no doubt must have put up !

btw one of their mentioned sources is Stephen Robinson – one of the good guys – instrumental in spreading the word about DU-238

Just 5 years ago, our oldest’s best friend was not allowed to join the Marines – b/c he has ADHD – he’s very high functioning, meds have been working for well over 12 years at that point – but they wouldn’t take him. He was crushed – his mother rejoices
Bagdad ER – so very difficult to sit through – but that’s exactly why we did, we were expected to just change the channel

Cujo359 wrote: “I’ve worked around soldiers and ex-soldiers for a long time.” Did any of the soldier you worked with have an opinion of working along side someone who is depressed?

Cujo359 #25: thanks for the info. FEI (for everyone’s information) I think it was proper for upper brass to discipline Patton in WWII. What I was trying to say was that what Patton did was bad, and he was rightfully punished, regardless of what Patton thought of the patient, and that what the current leadership is doing something much worse than what Patton did. And yet people defend Rumsfeld. It is a disgrace.

Oh.

Oh man… that child’s feet are not much bigger than my child’s. And the hair seems to have some of the same curls.

See?

Dear God, please send George W. Bush to hell.

#29: I would think a mentally unaffected soldier would not like it one bit.

Someone should force or trick Bush into taking a little gander down to the Vietnam Vets Memorial. It’s only a few yards away, W! Might teach you a thing or two.

Or is that being WAY too naive?

Of potentially debilitating and severe mental disorders, PTSD remains one the most difficult to treat even with appropriate therapy and/or medication. John Murtha, speaking about his visits to Walter Reed, reported estimates of up to 50,000 Americans that will suffer from PTSD in this bloody Iraq trajedy. The sources for his outrage are true.

It’s unbelievable to think of those experiencing dissociative states with severe anxiety, flashbacks, and other emotional impairment being expected to function effectively, let alone as a part of a team or unit, where others’ wellbeing depends on staying balanced. Considering what mindset likely passes as common amidst a fight against an insurgency, the risk for severe sufferers might be more likely to go unrecognized.

To be aware of the problem and send them back? FUBAR

I have encountered many people over the years who suffer from PTSD, including a former marine last week who suffers from trauma associated with combat in Lebanon over two decades ago. Thinking about this is halting for me.

I guess its time to post this again.

James Blunt. No Bravery. Stuff it in everyones mail box you know.

The Stricken @ 4:09 pm (#22) – Not on that subject specifically, but as a general rule there must be a great deal of trust between people in combat. They have to be able to know that the guy next to them will be able to do his job so that they all have a chance of surviving. That’s why I think that there is such a bond between ex-soldiers from a unit – remember how John Kerry’s boatmates stuck with him, sometimes despite their political differences. Having anyone who is potentially unstable in a unit is a big cause for concern.

i watched part of bagdad ER. it’s extremely well done. gutwrenching. America needs to watch it. it ought to be on every channel.
except for the soldiers and military families, who is having to sacrifice anything?

i think we ought to have universal conscription for both women and men:

1)the children of administration officials ought to be called up first.
2) then the children of members of congress.
3) then the children of executives of any corporation that manufactures weapons or equipment used in war.
4)next, the children of any washington lobbyist.
5)finally, the children of the rest of the nation.

if we had a system like that we might be in afghanistan, but we sure as hell wouldn’t be in iraq.

Happy Birthday Zach !@ 23

colleenmilitarymom,

thought your boy had been safely redeployed stateside – I applaud your hanging tough, really don’t know how you and other military families do it – will hold you and yours in our prayers

everyone- all 3 networks led with the story of the 26M veterans records – heckuva job indeed

I send a hug, and hope to all of those anguished soldiers vets as well as a prayer for parents of soldiers for their children, even though I don’t usually pray. I also send thanks to you for posting this. Most of all, however, I send a word of support to family of those out there and to Christie for thinking of them and others at risk.

This is one of the more disgusting aspects of this whole con known as the Iraq War. Support our Troops Indeed.
Why can’t we have a constitutional amendment that requires the draft age children of the president and all members of congress and the judiciary to be drafted for COMBAT service first? Stupid question I know…

We will, as a nation, have to deal with these broken men and women and the gang members and the angry souls and the grieving families… this makes me really furious and it’s why I continue to engage with people, rather than throwing up my hands in failure. I worked in the VA, it was marginal then… we don’t care as a nation about mental illness except as a way to “out” someone (check Kurtz’ article today)… it takes years for us to admit that killing people can cause very real psychoses and that exposure to weapons makes people sick and die.

Not suprisingly, the government relies on the the troops to “buck each other up”. This does not happen and has not happened since WWII. They are alone and mostly silent about what they did– in Vietnam, Poppy’s War and Chimpy’s Wars. Disgusting neglect, not by antiwar peeps, but by the government.

I want a government that does recognize all of these things and takes them into consideration when decidering when to take the nation to war. I want a government that takes care of its’ Veterans and NO MORE PLATITUDES and USING OF THE MILITARY AS PROPS for a speech. Don’t use them at all… recruit them properly, respect them properly and teach them how to keep the peace and defend against aggression– they want to, I am sure.

No preventive stoopid wars– a sane foreign policy and diplomatic engagement will work. Throwing the military out there after the fact when you failed as you and your cabinet vacationed and you targeted discriminately– wrongly, does not serve the world in any way.

Happy Birthday to Zach– hope he comes home safe and soon, colleenmilitarymom.

cujo359 (#25):

it is said that Patton, because of his tactics and ruthlessness, had fewer casualties among his men than other generals.

Cannon fodder. The neo-cons can parrot nice words, but they view our servicemembers a subhuman things to be fed into the machine of war. They do not care how many are killed, how many are broken body and soul.

My son told me a soldier in his unit went to the first sergeant and told the shirt he needed help because of the nightmares and violent thoughts he was having. Instead of getting the troop the help he requested, the unit dumped him out on a medical discharge.

My son said the message was clear: If you want to stay in, you don’t ask for help.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0522.html

Raw story headlines that a Rove decision is expected soon. Most of the story is about Libby.

http://tinyurl.com/a6erq

^^^ HELP IMPEACH TODAY

Keep the pressure on Congress… Talking about impeachment wakes people up… They question, it’s a strong motivator to get people thinking. It also lets Congress know how intense the dissapproval is for this President… They seem to be a little slow on the uptake. So please:

1) Sign petitions if you have not done so
2) Send a letter to Congress (both Senators & House rep)
3) Send a copy to the media
4) Enlist friends and family to help, ask them to chip in time
5) Spread the link around, email it (with a request to forward) post it on a blog, or in the comments of a news story.

Help out!!!

Thanks :)

Shite, TR– that’s soooooo telling. Shut up and don’t tell.

Damn them all.

it is so telling that Jenna and not-Jenna are partying it up stateside and not in the Armed Forces. None of their cousins are in the military either. None!

Hope your son is ok, TR.

I spoke with my sister yesterday afternoon. We hadn’t talked in several months, and as part of catching up, she told me she had been busy putting plans into place to deal with the aftermath of Baghdad ER (the CASH depicted in the film is in my brother-in-law’s command). Making sure family members of deployed folks were prepared for what was coming if they decided to watch the program, letting them know resources would be available; she talked with several officers to make sure they were aware of the response needs that may arise. And letting folks know that it wasn’t something to be seen by kids under any circumstances (let alone one with a deployed parent). Also, lots (and my sister emphasized that) are coming home with head injuries, which can present both medical and psychiatric problems. I am afraid we aren’t nearly ready to provide the care a whole generation will require, even if this thing ended tomorrow.

Angie#48: He’s doing as well as he can. He knows he can talk to us-and he has.

I’m haunted by some of the things he’s told us that he saw happen. If it haunts me, who wasn’t there, what must it be doing to him?

It breaks my heart.

And I agree: Damn them all.

RE #47: Has there EVER been a Bush family response to the “why aren’t Jenna and not-Jenna serving in the military?” question?!??

Or is it simply a foregone assumption that serving is below them?

ccobb @ 31– your post is powerful and is why it is so important that the pictures get out! Remember the naked, terrified, little girl in Life magazine?

These pictures remind us all that we are human and have much in common.

Thanks, Redd.

“The Stricken says:
May 22nd, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Cujo359 wrote: “I’ve worked around soldiers and ex-soldiers for a long time.” Did any of the soldier you worked with have an opinion of working along side someone who is depressed?”

From my military experience, when a person already in your unit gets depressed, the collective reaction has a lot to do with how highly valued the depressed person was before the episode. If he or she was valuable, everybody pitches in to help/protect. If the individual was not valuable, they recreate the team to not rely on the depressed one, or seek ways to get the individual transferred.

If the depressed individual is a superior officer, the same applies to helping or protecting a fair officer.

If a newly assigned soldier/marine shows up already depressed, there’s seldom any sympathy.

the reaction that we are all having to this photograph is the reason why we don’t see such images in the corporate media.

if americans were exposed to images like these, we’d be out of iraq. i remember as a young kid seeing the image of the burning boy running down the road in vietnam. these real life moments tell the story so much better than any amount of words.

how can we eat, speak, – live, when such horror is ocurring in our names. it’s devastating.

TR– that’s the part that is so egregious (props to her). It is hard to get the ones that ‘make it’ to talk, it is all buried in their minds and hearts… I know many who spoke of what happened and others that could or would not. Drill sergeants et al, have to demonize the “enemy” and justify the killing…but the words are empty when you hear the commander in chief et al. The troops know better.

Who, among us, can make sense of it?

A lead story on Hardball tonight was one of the six or so retired Generals again saying that Rumsfeld should resign. He noted that after three years of horrors, there still had been no senior level accountability for Abu Ghraib, for lack of adequate troops, for false or overly optimistic intelligenice, for lack of planning, and so on. He was unwilling to blame the President and his neocon advisers, but he couldn’t articulate why we were there. And for him, the buck should at least stop with the Sec. of Defense. Why isn’t the nation demanding his resignation/firing? And why isn’t the CinC held accountable for the fact that Rummy and is closest cadre are still on the job? He finished by saying he retired early, gave up a promising career, to be able to speak out.

This Administration defies the laws of political gravity.

It is eerie, but that photo is remarkably similar to the picture of the fireman holding the little girl who was killed in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Baghdad , Oklahoma City, and on and on… ” Take your place on the Great Mandella..,and it’s been going on for 10,000 years…”

What disturbs me is the kind of remark my neighbor made in quoting her grandson, a marine, who just returned from Iraq, stating, “the Iraqis don’t value life like we do.” Where in the world did he get such an idea? Or, did he observe people in Iraq who have become so used to seeing people blown up that that they have become numb, and he takes it for not valuing life?

I think all war destroys decent men in some way or another. Many ex-soldiers hold it inside and never talk about it. As a Navy pilot told me about Viet Nam, the infantrymen never talk about what they have seen, whereas fighter pilots relate all kinds of experiences: they are detached from the result of what they inflict on people below. Either way, it is a tragedy that we fill minds with images of destruction and violent death.And that we kill innocent people. It can only mean a diminished soul.

I can’t deal with pictures like that. I wiz right by them. Heck, I’m still crying about Barbaro.

Needless to say, this pressure also contributes to incidents like the one John Murtha told us about last week.

Last week Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! interviewed the mother of the soldier who died after an emergency operation during Baghdad ER. She said seeing it all unfold, seeing that all possible was done for her son really put her heart to rest in ways that nothing else had done so far. I wasn’t expecting that response.

My thoughts and prayers for TR and son, Colleenmilitarymom and Zach (Happy Birthday), and all other soldiers and their families and for my nephew David who is also in Iraq at this time. And then there are the Iraqis……..

and don’t forget the damaged souls who return:

PTSD: Soldiers in distress
Critics say Iowa lacks help for veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder. The military says it begs soldiers to sign up for the many services provided.

By JENNIFER JACOBS
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
May 21, 2006

It’s a jarring image: A U.S. flag flies upside-down outside Terri Jones’s home.

It’s a distress signal she took straight from the federal flag code – and it’s her way of calling Iowans’ attention to what she believes is an unfolding crisis of post-traumatic stress disorder among Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.

One of its victims, she said, was her son, Jason Cooper, 23, who took off his dog tags, fastened a noose, and stepped off a chair.

http://www.desmoinesregister.c…..01/archive

Margaret (#58): What you have described with your neighbor quoting her grandson really seems to hit the problem on the head for me with the comment that “the Iraqis don’t value life like we do.” I’m amazed by how prevalent — and yet unspoken — this sort of thinking is. It’s not exactly racisim (though I do believe identity categories like “race” and “religion” are certainly involved here), but it seems to be something even sadder and more pitiful — the failure of empathy. This is about the failure to imagine that someone’s life might link up with yours, and it’s a devestating consequence of the failure of the imagination.

Visual images (like this photo) are successful in that they invoke feelings of pathos and empathy, but of course, we need to be able to be a world that can get to the “empathy stage” well before the “devestating photo” stage. I am so sickened and saddened by the kind of thinking you describe because it signals to me that we have a real problem with empathy and imagination. Your neighbor’s son’s comment is a rather sinister harbinger.

OT, apparently Jean Rohe is going to be on Countdown tonight, if I heard Keith properly.

Gives new meaning to the phrase ‘war on drugs.’

As someone who has lived with depression for 30 years, to read that some commander states that he was not aware there was anything wrong is just nothing but CYA bullshit. Although men, and I would imagine particularly soldiers, are more stoic in their outward symptoms, it is not hard to see depression in someone if you know what to look for. And these CO’s have a responsibility to know that and to respond to it. I also wonder if there is a difference in how depression in the field and PTSD are handled between the genders. It would be interesting to know if women are more likely to be sent home when they report symptoms than men.

Reading that bipolar and schizophrenic people are 1) accepted by the military and 2) deployed to a warzone raises a huge red flag about things like the Marines who murdered the civilians. Did these soldiers have correct medication? Actually, strike that because beside the fact that they shouldn’t even be there, it would be impossible to monitor them closely enough for anything like remote safety. The best controlled treatment and management of mental illness can’t address the ebbs and flows of disease. These military recruiters and all the people along the way who “overlook” these people in favor of another pair of boots on the ground should all be court-martialed and sent to jail. And Pace needs to go right behind Rummy.

Raw Story/Hardball story update :

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014910.html

The slam “Do Nothing Congress” has been superceded by the newly dubbed:

“Comatose Congress”

Thanks Jonathan Turley.

-GSD

I notice with all the polling the we are looking pretty good to take one of the housse.

But we really have to start the movement now and make sure the following;

voters aren’t dissenfranchised

there is a paper trail

ballots are easy to decipher

there are enough locations and enough personel to man the polls

and again, we have to make sure electronic voting doesn’t steal yet another election

we need this movement to begin and organize now

Jonathon Turley on Countdown — noting the irony that AG Gonzalez, who was part of a criminal enterprise in authorizing the NSA programs, is now threatening to try/jail reporters for publishing leaks about such secret “classified” govt programs, like NSA spying (never mind Mary’s admonition that you can’t legally classify illegal activity). Turley closes by noting that Constitutional checks and balances have broken down, because Congress has become completely dysfunctional, so the only check left is the 4th estate — and if they are to be threatened/tried/jailed for doing their jobs, the country/Constitution are in serious danger. Pretty strong stuff.

Kinda makes the Jim Vande– article speculating about how Bush can recover look pretty silly, doesn’t it. (See Pachacutec post, earlier today.) We have a criminal administration, and WaPo is worrying about how they can regain public support!

Yeah, all we need now is for Rummy (ala General George Patton during the WWII Sicily campaign) to slap a couple of traumatized soldiers.

Apologies to George C. Scott: “PTSD? There’s no PTSD! They’re yellow! (slap slap) You may get shot, and you may get killed, but you’re going up to front (slap) (screaming) Get these guys out of here and get them up to the fighting! You hear me!!”

The way these guys consider themselves the second coming of some WWII hero (Bush is Churchill, Wolfie is Harry Hopkins…) It doesn’t seem to be that much of a stretch.

Our nation will be dealing with this travesty for a long time.

President Decider McSociopath I am sure, does not lose one wink of sleep over the devastation he has unleashed.

Whenever I hear that bullshit line ‘The people int he Middle East don’t respect life’ I get livid. The US has the highest homicide rates in the undustrial world. We have incarceration rates worse than anyone and mete out the death penalty as liberaly as China, Saudi Arabia and Iran and infant mortality rates as bad as Romania.

Yep, we LOVE life here.

-GSD

The following was posted by Major Variola (ret) on the Cypherpunks mailing list:

We were somewhere around Kandahar, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember saying something like “I feel a bit light headed, maybe you should fly….” And suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked like antiaircraft fire, all swooping and screeching and diving around the plane, and a voice was screaming: “Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals? Canadians?” (attorney says: “What are you yelling about?”) “Never mind, its your turn to fly.” No point in mentioning those canooks, I thought, the poor bastard will see them soon enough. We had two go-pills, some anti depressants, and a bag of Xanax for when we got back. Not that we needed all this for the trip, but once you get locked in a serious patrol mission, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that worried me was the dexies, there is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in a fully-loaded F-16 crazed on military speed. Except maybe the politician who sent him.

CNN with Paul Zahn has Congressman George Miller (D. of Calif and very articulate –finally our guys are starting to be heard)castigating the Bush admin on withholding mine safety rules, while Congress ignored oversight responsitility for last 5 years = resulting in more mine deaths, as in Kentucky recently, and W. Va earlier. So much for “Culture of life”

In an attempt to comment on several posts with one…

The military pretty much has down statistically the incidence rates of combat-related mental disorders, etc. (i.e., how much the normal, healthy combatant can stand) and a doctrine for dealing with it – getting them back to duty ASAP unless they’re so far gone that they have to be evacuated. Sorry I don’t have time to research the links.

For those of you who’ve never been in ground combat, let me just express that it isn’t what you see in the movies or on TV or now in video games. There just isn’t a good way to simulate it or even describe it. I certainly haven’t read all of the literature, but for me All Quiet on the Western Front came closest, and it wasn’t even my war.

If we need to slam the Bush twins, please remind me what Chelsea Clinton’s up to these days. Or anyone in the next generation of Gore or Kerry. I agree with one or more posters upthread, universal male conscription is the only limiter on pols’ proclivity for taking us to war.

Time for a woman president? I used to think that. Now I think it depends on the character and judgment of the candidate. People of either gender who rise to the top of a heirarchy almost always do so through a combination of drive and aggression. History suggests that we might need a better form of social organization than we now have. Until then, holding the childern of the leaders hostage to their own ambitions seems the only realistic counter.

Failing that, there’s always heavy drinking.

As a veteran,I can assure you Christy that the
only troops you’ll ever hear from are those
politically chosen to talk to the press about this issue.
What our very brave young men and women need
is an advocate like Bill Mauldin with his Willy and Joe cartoons.How many times they tried to shut him down is mind boggling
This war is so very tragic and wrong from it’s very start~

I looked around for some material, here is an interesting blog (I don’t know who runs it or now authoritative it is), which has some links to other PTSD articles in local press around country.

http://ptsdcombat.blogspot.com…..ories.html

fharender #42: not sure what your point was about Pattons ruthlessness, but turns out that Patton got on the case of two soldiers. One of them was sick with dysentary and malaria. But no battle wounds. So, looks like Patton goofed up that time pretty bad. Interesting story. Turns out that Omar Bradley (famous for his concern of soldiers’ welfare) and Eisenhower tried to hush it up, or least “study it” themselves under wraps long enough to make it old news when it finally came out in the news. Medical people went over superiors’ heads up chain of command in protest. Drew Pearson got ahold of story, FDR called Drew Pearson a “chronic liar” in public over it. Lots of interesting details.
That was the greatest generation. Compare to this band of cowardly martinets. The whole crew is worse than ruthless Patton at his worst.

The way this administration has pissed on our troops, and continues to do so, is one of the things that makes me angriest about this whole fiasco.

And here’s one more way the government makes it harder for returning troops: did you know that veterans are not allowed to hire an attorney to help them get their veterans’ benefits? I kid you not.

It seems like such a small thing, compared to some of the other horrors and indignities visited upon our troops – but imagine being a vet with PTSD, trying to make your way through the VA maze alone. Veterans are spending, literally, years – sometimes decades – trying to get their benefits, and having their claims denied because they made some tiny mistake.

This op-ed by James McKay, a veteran and attorney who has acted pro bono on behalf of many of them, makes an eloquent argument for changing the rules. Maybe this is something we could lobby for as a collective Roots project. Again, it’s a (relatively) small issue in the grand scheme of things, but it’s something that would really help a lot of veterans.

O/T

zennurse -
are you still here ? – whenever the subject comes up always want to ask if you are familiar with this book (2001) – it’s an ‘atlas’ of depression – our family gained sooo much from reading it – not pop psych, yet not clinically dry or downbeat

Noonday Demon

back to our regularly scheduled program

and please note that in the Des Moines Register article the onus is placed on returning military for not seeking treatment. Anybody who has tried to negotiate the VA mental health system will know what a difficult row to hoe that is….

GSD says:
May 22nd, 2006 at 5:31 pm

President Decider McSociopath I am sure, does not lose one wink of sleep over the devastation he has unleashed.

I read a story not long ago about how the White House had a secondary scare on Sept.11, 2001, and how the pres and first lady were awakened and taken to a bunker – at 11:08 P.M.

Yep – 9-11 evening, and GWB was sleeping soundly at 11:08 P.M.

I must say reluctantly you do have a point about Chelsea Clinton — her mom did vote for the damn war, just like Kerry did. Al Gore, to his credit, did vote against the First Iraq War in 1991 — he was out of power during the current Iraq War and he sounds like he opposes it. So let’s leave the Gore “kids” out of it.
The problem with all the Bush kids ducking is their parents enthusiastic and continued gung-ho support of other peoples kids doing the fighting in Iraq.

wesgpc #77:

Great generals always have fewer casualties in their commands than lesser ones. Patton had to be who he was to get the results he did, but other victorious commanders won without the histrionics.

new thread – old propaganda

professor rat @ 73, I assume you know the original source of that passage, yes?

I had to race to the bottom as soon as I saw that heart-cracking photo, to make this link available. WARNING: not for children or the faint of heart. Perhaps you have all seen these.

A knowledge of Spanish is not necessary. The photos are all by professionals as you will see in the credits.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article136827.html

It occurs to me that most of the Iraqis who suffered such assaults on their bodies would have died forthwith; for our troops, suffering substitutes for oblivion in so many cases. What? Half of the wounded?

I’m not sure which I’d choose were I young. . .
Judith

#58 margaret

“What disturbs me is the kind of remark my neighbor made in quoting her grandson, a marine, who just returned from Iraq, stating, “the Iraqis don’t value life like we do.” Where in the world did he get such an idea? Or, did he observe people in Iraq who have become so used to seeing people blown up that that they have become numb, and he takes it for not valuing life?”

echoes of vietnam from a famous quote by general william westmoreland, commander of us forces there:

“‘The Oriental doesn’t put the same high price on life as does a Westerner. Life is plentiful. Life is cheap in the Orient.”

After WW1 there was a lot of good research into “Shell Shock”. It was recognised as an injury from battle. But the military moved in and squashed further research.
In WW2 it was called “Battle Fatigue” but it was not acknowledged officially as a battle injury. Never the less, after the war much research was done until it was shut down again.
During the Vietnam war it was recognised and called PTSD by doctors in VA hospitals. They did much valuable research and when the miliary tried to shut it down again, the doctors resigned and continued on with their work and got the diagnosis recognised by the medical establishment (DSM IV).
The military simply hate the truth of this condition because it says very loudly that war is NOT a natural inclination in mankind and in men in particular. PTSD says war is totally unnatural. War harms EVERYBODY

Leslie @ 78, thank you for linking to the McKay OpEd, this is the beauty of being here, we get so much information. That law is despicable and insulting. The cases coming from this mess in Iraq are going to be incredibly complicated because of the lives saved in the field compared to soldiers who would have died just 20 years ago. It’s all about high-tech meds and treatments that no layperson can understand. Snf just as they are making wrong judgements about sending them back to combat with mental illness, they will make the wrong decisions about disability and the level of care required after rehab. We are already hearing about it, and there are 130,000 soldiers coming home (someday) who will need to be evaluated.

What a sorry mess.

Let me add that Donald Rumsfeld may be the very worst of the worst in this kakistocracy, more deranged and degenerate than even the Big Dick. I wonder what creatures he tortured and slew as a youth. . .

How I’d love for him to live the rest of his life in abject terror.

Judith yclept Hypatia

I forgot the punchline to the story: public outrage over Patton won out over cover up, Patton was relieved of duty for period, and made to apologize in person to his troops. Patton was forced to do an apology tour. Compare to now then abuse of mentally disabled soldiers is policy. And does the public care?

al-Scooter #83: I agree with you. I am not a veteran and not any whiz on military history, but I think sometimes Patton is over-revered because of his idioscyncracies, and this is useful for certain types of blood thirsty militarists.
I think General Slim in Burma had the dash and derring doo, and amazing long distance strikes of Patton, and he took bigger risks (in the middle of the jungle, Slim got few reinforcements, if he blew it in a critical situation no help was coming and his army was through). And I think he was much more like Bradley than Patton.

For pictures that give the lie to “Iraqis don’t value life like we do”, you can’t do better than markfromireland’s blog-
http://gorillasguides.blogspot.com/

meant to say in #91
Compare to now, when abuse of mentally disabled soldiers is policy. And does the public care?

scarecrow @ 5:28 pm (#70) – The other day, I predicted that someone would make the argument that because the program wasn’t classified because it was illegal, it was OK. Resident Bush apologist “bart” over at Glenn Greenwald’s site tries that argument on for size today in response to the article Christy mentioned earlier today.

Indeed, no one is arguing that the President should be able to classify illegal activity. Therefore, your citation to actual illegal activity at Abu Ghraib and the like are simply knocking down straw men.

Speaking of strawmen, bart manages to pack about as many logic errors into a paragraph as anyone who has ever called himself a lawyer. Nevertheless, he does seem to be one.

[confronted with this question:]Bart, I’ll bite. What court has reviewed the NSA surveillance program and found it perfectly legal?

[bart replies:] We don’t live in North Korea with a presumption of guilt. What case has ever found warrantless intelligence gathering against foreign groups and their agents in the US to be illegal? Several cases have found this to be perfectly legal.

Normally I wouldn’t bore you guys with this nonsense, but cometimes these guys are just so sadly predictable that it makes you want to scream.

Baghdad ER was the most important, most powerful film I’ve seen since Farenheit 9/11. I had a fairly major existential crisis last night after watching it. What are we doing to end this war? What are we doing to end the violence being visited upon our soldiers and Iraqi civilians?

Am I making a difference with the organizing I’m doing with the Roots Project? Does it matter that I’m promoting values of peace and freedom through nonviolence with my work towards Tibetan independence? Is anyone listening to our protests against this senseless war?

Baghdad ER really brought a lot of questions home to me. I hope you all have a chance to see it.

the horrors of bush are endless.
.

colleenmilitarymom (23) — send my best to your son on his birthday; wish you nerves of steel when you need them.

My stepson turns 26 this year, too. And we probably both thought at one time the teen years were the worst…[sigh]

Every time I see that picture, I want to cry. There are no words to express the anger and disgust I feel for each and every person associated with George W. Bush. Scenes like this have played out countless times in Iraq since our country invaded. This once just happened to be caught on film.

This is where class warfare inevitably leads. The Decider’s and Deadeye’s peeps don’t do combat. They have other priorities.

Mostly those who have few or no other options do combat these days. This is one reason good jobs are being outsourced, and education is beyond the means of working folks – to ensure a steady supply of cannon fodder. Maybe why Bush supports a guestworker program in the face of his base’s opposition? I can never forget that line from the fascist and schlocky ‘Starship Troopers’ – “Service guarantees citizenship.”

Contrast our Dear Leader with FDR. During WWII, his son was a Marine Raider, earning the Navy Cross and Silver Star. He had a legitimate out – he had flat feet – but insisted on serving.

Moreover, we are sowing to the wind. Remember the PTSD from Vietnam? That’s going to be a walk in the park compared to the troops now being recycled to combat untreated. My heart breaks for what is to come.

More and more, I think we are re-witnessing Rome’s transition from republic to empire.

And we’re the only thing standing in the way.

When I lived in Arizona, many years ago, I was friends with a ‘Nam Vet. At some point he decided that he needed to tell me part of what happened to him there. I’m not sure why he thought he needed to tell me. I was 28/29 at the time, about the same age as his kids. After he told me a few of the things that happened to him, he was truely surpised that I didn’t curse him and kick him out of my apartment. I had to remind him that my father was also in the Air Force around the same time as he was, but was fortunate enough to have a skill that kept him from the front lines (PMEL) and that I had spent the first 18 years of my life as a military dependent. I think it was a test that I had passed and gained a new status of trust with him. I think he told me this after he had a relapse of PTSD after seeing ‘Schindler’s List’.

Even though my father didn’t not serve in any combat situations, he was stationed in Osan, Korea in ‘77. He’s refused to talk about anything that happened while stationed there. (we were left behind at Keesler AFB) It wasn’t until late last year that I ever heard that he had to wear a helmet and carry a rifle nearly all the time. But, then again I never heard until after his mother’s death, a couple of years ago, that he had stood up to his father, at the age of 15, to stop the physical abuse metted out.

undercoverdick says: @ #18, I agree with you, the US is following closely in the steps of Rome and have been for a number of years. There have been a few people that I’ve mentioned this to and they laugh in my face and claim to be historians.

I concur that as distasteful as it is, a mandatory x number years of service to the country should be made by all citizens. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the militatry, could be something like the Peace Crops, just service to the country. Having said that….for once I’m so fricking happy that in just over 2 months I will be 41 years of age and out of bounds for any military draft and I fear for my friends that aren’t as old as I am. I’m sure that y’all are aware that people up to 40 years of age can be ‘recruited’ into the Nat’l Guard.

I understand what is being said about what is coming with the return of our service people. It’s going to get very, very ugly. Many of those thar are physically able to return home now most likely would have died as little as 10 years ago. The VA keeps getting cut and the vets can’t get services they need. My dad isn’t eligible to use the VA. He has to drive around 150 miles (round trip) to pick up medications (for him and Mom – he served for 22 yrs). I’ve been told repeatedly by some serious right-wingers that it’s only 2500 dead, we lost 20+k in D-Day. So, fricking what!!! How many were just wounded compared to today??? As if that really makes a difference.

I don’t know what the point of this post is…. Maybe I just wish that our ‘leaders’ had some morals and compassion.

{{{{{{{{{Rayne & Stepson, Colleenmilitarymom & Zack, TR & son and everyone who has scars from this war or others.}}}}}}}}}}

Video of former Army Ranger

http://video.google.com/videop…..ie+macbeth

No apology necessary for the incredible photograph. I find it deeply moving, an evocation of the human spirit in the midst of a living hell.

Do you remember “The Marlboro Man” young soldier at battle of Fallujah, April 2004? His current life and struggle with PTSD. (free reg required)

http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..-headlines

The picture of the soldier carrying this Iraqi child is a poster of the horror of war…they are both pawns of the war hawks who keep trying to justify their indefensible decisions to start this endless bloodshed…who is ever going to benefit from this madness….

Site note: Mary- there is another Mary at FDL who has been here a long time. To avoid confusion, hope you will take another site name. Thx.

It’s recently been suggested that the ability to survive and recover from abusive situations is genetically influenced. A few children, for instance, appear to be able to bounce back from severe sexual or physical abuse, and many of them share the same genetic traits. See this article in the New York Times Magazine about a month ago.

Want to bet that they’ll start testing for that trait in the army some day?

And frankly, I find the idea that a universal draft would reduce state or international violence to be very, very silly. When has it ever done that? There was a draft during Vietnam, wasn’t there? And how many Americans, not to speak of Vietnamese and others, were killed there before it ended?

Instead of fetishizing new types of national service, people need to develop a calmer and more level-headed idea of what a nation is. It isn’t a holy cause. It’s just an arrangement for people to work together for a better life. Anything that goes contrary to that aim should be avoided, and most things that go contrary to that aim are sugar-coated with such useful idiocies as “love of country” and “patriotism.” Refuse the sugar and look at what you’re really eating. It might surprise you.

That picture was taken by Michael Yon, a blogger, or rather a writer (& former soldier) who embedded himself with the military in Iraq and wrote his dispatches and posted his pictures from his blog, http://michaelyon-online.com/

The story behind his photo is here:
http://www.michaelyon-online.c…..e-girl.htm

For those who don’t know how to read the patches, the guy in the picture is probably on his second tour. The flag patch on his right sleeve seems a little low, which implies; to me at least, that he has a combat patch, which get for serving at least thirty days in a combat zone.

TK

Griffon (88), thank you for stating, “…war is not a natural inclination in mankind and in men in particular. PTSD says war is totally unnatural.” Society severely punishes convicted killers on one hand because it’s wrong to kill and then goes against this truism by sending our military to kill. Not many question the latter practice because war is such a given throughout history. During my long life, World War II was the only war that had merit but even then a different mind-set might have prevented it. We need to actively war against war and use our resources to build rather than to destroy.

I glanced at this newspaper headline in the gas station a while back and felt a little woozy. For me I think it’s easier to read about the tap scandals and look at Hayden’s face. Maybe that’s because a friend of mine died from an injury he got in the army. I think the NYT was carrying a story about the abuse of physically rehabilitating recruits at almost the same time. It’s unbearable.

That photograph…
I’m going to send it to my representatives in Congress with the caption “You let this happen.” I’d encourage everyone else to do the same. I’ll send it to some MSM idiots as well.

When On 11/18 the No Blood for 12 were arrested for shutting down a recruitment center in Lakewood Colorado we wore 8×10’s of Dead and maimed Iraqi children. When we go to court on 6/5 we will wear the same. For a 5 min. QuickTime educational edited film on civil resistence download at this kind place http://www.s90370584.onlinehom…..ilComp.mov

“painful visual”?

More of them please. It helps remind us that we’re paying for the carnage every day.

I am shocked that only one person here (including the author of the post) recognized that picture. It is inconceivable to me. That wonderful painful picture has been posted all over the right for a year.

Michael Yon has done fantastic work. If you don’t know him or that picture then that tells me that all you know about these issues comes from the MSM or stateside pundits. If you have not been following the blogger/reporters who raised the money themselves, with the help of their readers, to embed or even travel on their own to bring front-line reporting back to the blogosphere then you do not know what is going on in Iraq. MSM reporters rarely leave the Green Zone – surely you know they are phoning it in.

Is it because the right mostly promotes and links these folks? You let ideological blinders keep you from reading such magnificent front-line reporting?

Really, take some time to read all of their dispatches if you want more perspective on what is going over there. They tell the bad with the good – it is not right-wing noise. Many fantastic photographs as well. These bloggers have literally put their lives on the line to bring us these stories and pictures.

Michael Yon

Bill Roggio

Michael Totten who is all over the ME.

That photograph was shot by Michael Yon. I noticed you are not properly crediting him for it. You need to correct that mistake.