
(Update: Somebody get the WSJ a valium, they’re having a meltdown: "The great mistake that leading Democrats and anti-Communist liberals made during Vietnam was not speaking up against a left that was demanding retreat and sneering at our war heroes. Will any Democrat speak up now?" Triangulating concern trolls. Brilliant.)
Not long ago Peter Daou talked about how the netroots could not get traction for their issues because there was no message reinforcement between the liberal blogosphere, the Democrats and the traditional media, and we could not effectively create that "triangle" that would carry our narratives to a larger audience.
I think we just witnessed it happening, though not in quite the way anybody envisioned. The liberal blogosphere crafted the narrative — Lieberman is a pariah on the Democratic party and he must go. Elected Democratic officials didn’t step up and support that narrative, but the delegates in the state of Connecticut did (and so did our candidate, Ned Lamont). Now the triangle is completed on the pages of the New York Times, where Paul Krugman echoes the message in a wonderful, tightly crafted piece:
Friday was a bad day for Senator Joseph Lieberman. The Connecticut Democratic Party’s nominating convention endorsed him, but that was a given for an incumbent with a lot of political chips to cash in. The real news was that Ned Lamont, an almost unknown challenger, received a third of the votes. This gave Mr. Lamont the right to run against Mr. Lieberman in a primary, and suggests that Mr. Lamont may even win.
What happened to Mr. Lieberman? Some news reports may lead you to believe that he is in trouble solely because of his support for the Iraq war. But there’s much more to it than that. Mr. Lieberman has consistently supported Republican talking points. This has made him a lion of the Sunday talk shows, but has put him out of touch with his constituents and with reality.
Mr. Lieberman isn’t the only nationally known Democrat who still supports the Iraq war. But he isn’t just an unrepentant hawk, he has joined the Bush administration by insisting on an upbeat picture of the situation in Iraq that is increasingly delusional.
Moreover, Mr. Lieberman has supported the attempt to label questions about why we invaded Iraq and criticism of the administration’s policies since the invasion as unpatriotic. How else is one to interpret his warning, late last year, that "it is time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be Commander-in-Chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war we undermine Presidential credibility at our nation’s peril"?
And it’s not just Iraq. A letter sent by Hillary Clinton to Connecticut Democrats credited Mr. Lieberman with defending Social Security "tooth and nail." Well, I watched last year’s Social Security debate pretty closely, and that’s not what happened. In fact, Mr. Lieberman repeatedly supported the administration’s scare tactics. "Every year we wait to come up with a solution to the Social Security problem," he declared in March 2005, "costs our children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren $600 billion more."
This claim echoed a Bush administration talking point, and President Bush wasted little time citing Mr. Lieberman’s statement as vindication. But the talking point was simply false, so Mr. Lieberman was providing cover for an administration lie.
There’s more. Mr. Lieberman supported Congressional intervention in the Terri Schiavo affair, back when Republican leaders were trying to manufacture a "values" issue out of thin air. And let’s not forget that Mr. Lieberman showed far more outrage over Bill Clinton’s personal life than he has ever shown over Mr. Bush’s catastrophic failures as commander in chief.On each of these issues Mr. Lieberman, who is often described as a "centrist," is or was very much at odds not just with the Democratic base but with public opinion as a whole. According to the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll, only 40 percent of the public believes that we were right to go to war with Iraq.
Mr. Lieberman’s tender concern for the president’s credibility comes far too late: according to a USA Today/Gallup poll, only 41 percent of Americans consider Mr. Bush honest and trustworthy. By huge margins, the public believed that Congress should have stayed out of the Schiavo case. And so on.
Mr. Lieberman’s defenders would have you believe that his increasingly unpopular positions reflect his principles. But his Bushlike inability to face reality on Iraq looks less like a stand on principle than the behavior of a narcissist who can’t admit error. And the common theme in Mr. Lieberman’s positions seems to be this: In each case he has taken the stand that is most likely to get him on TV.
How do I love thee let me count the ways. Krugman hit ‘em all. Every point. What a thing of beauty. I see people walking down the street, oblivious, and I think — do they realize what just happened? Do they know how monumental this is? Do they understand how Chuck Schumer is going to be shitting sideways from now until November, worried about what Lieberman will do next, what he’s going to do next, and what we will do as a result?
I don’t have any crystal ball or special knowledge but the last Rasmussen poll on April 27 showed that Lieberman stood a much better chance of beating Lamont in a three-way race in November than he did in a Democratic primary, and those numbers are old. Since that time Ned has traveled around to one small city after another, meeting with local delegates, talking to people in places Joe Lieberman hadn’t seen in 18 years. As a pure practical matter, if Joe Lieberman wants to keep his seat he’ll say screw the Democratic party, throw his lot in as an independent and pit the Democrats and the Republicans against each other as the both court him in order to get him to caucus with them should he win the general election.
And what would the blogosphere do if the DSCC were to support an independent over a Democratic candidate? Again, I have no crystal ball but the words "unleash unholy hell" do suggest themselves.
And that job will be made a whole lot easier due to the fact that the message is now being carried on the pages of the New York Times. Don’t change that channel, boys and girls. I have no idea what the feature attraction is going to be, but I get the distinct feeling the show is just about to start.
(image courtesy Shystee at Corrente)



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Fitz and Krugman!
Fitz!
i’d like some Late Nite FITZ!!!!!!!!!
Root Beer Fitz!
I foresee rivers of mascara pouring down the faces of Lieberlovers coupled with plenty of teeth gnashing tomorrow morning when they open their eyes and read Krugman.
hooray for Paul Krugman & great post Jane!
A historic moment. A pillar of the mainstream media acknowledges what the left blogosphere has been saying for a long time. Bye Bye, Joe.
Oh it is just delightful, isn’t it?
Can anyone fathom WHY on Goddess’ green Earth, this guy was the #2 on the Democratic ticket in 2000????
It’s like trying to figure out why anyone listened to Christopher Cross….
Is this what they call a “Teaching moment”? :P
I must confess I have been away from the blog–and the TV–all day. Has there been any comment from the likes of Schumer or Hillary Clinton to what happened in Connecticut Friday night? Was the convention vote discussed by any of the talking heads today? My apologies if this has been discussed to death.
The conversation should be short: Do you swear on your mother’s name that you will not run as an independent? No? Well, good luck to you, we’re supporting Lamont.
The Wall Street Journal has an editorial about this race, and among other things, they are preparing to declare a Lamont victory the result of out-of-state anti-war “angry” leftists. The whole thing is characteristically putrid.
Well, I understand the article, and see the point. But I have NO IDEA what a “daou triangle” might be. Oh well.
I’m not really worried about the DSCC. They’ll have to support the primary winner, be it Lamont or Lieberman. I’m a bit more concerned about how Lieberman would declare himself, IF he wins as an independent, and IF the senate stacks even….would Lieberman side with the “D” team in order to give the D’s control…or not? But there’s alot of “ifs” involved there.
Ghostman
It is a wonderful piece to read– a tour de force expose in 10 short brilliant paragraphs– he nails it!
He also gets in Hillary’s face, too. ;)
Jane- thank you for another brilliant post. Yes, Krugman’s words were great, but you put them into perspective based on all that you know. Thanks so much. Gotta crash. Enjoy, all.
I *love* Krugman, but I think he’s essentially considered more a part of the blogosphere than the mainstream media for all intents and purposes. He is certainly not considered “The New York Times” in any way, shape, or form.
Um, completely off-topic, that “test” entry on the blogroll can probably be removed, yes?
would Lieberman side with the “D” team in order to give the D’s control…or not?
Well, he isn’t *now*…
…and no one in politics enlists out of staters to knock on doors, pass out flyers…..who does the WSJ think they are kidding???
OMG! I’m doing the happy dance here. Good for Paul. To be truthful, I’m just stunned to read something so real in the MSM.
Wow! just Wow!
Oh that was great to read!
And the common theme in Mr. Lieberman’s positions seems to be this: In each case he has taken the stand that is most likely to get him on TV.
I’ve always suspected that could be at the core of the individual. Perhaps the easiest way to get rid of him is to get some hollywood type to offer him a sitcom. I’ll bet he’d jump for it.
El Krug has been a lagging indicator of Dem blog for awhile now. I love him, but he’s just one man, and his points don’t circulate much beyond his column. It’s a whole hell of a lot better than nothing though.
OMG! I’m doing the happy dance here. Good for Paul. To be truthful, I’m just stunned to read something so real in the MSM.
When Ad Nags or Joe Klein says it, *then* I’ll get excited. This is just Krugman’s usual straight-talking no-bullshit excellence, and will be dismissed as more partisan shrillness.
Plus it’s behind the paywall, which limits its audience to NYT subscribers and online diehards.
Hey, that’s not fair to chriscross. I liked that first song (course I was 13). And the rest were forgetable and not overplayed.
Lieberman is more of an Air Supply, who still get overplayed on the oldies stations.
The Wall Street Journal has an editorial about this race, and among other things, they are preparing to declare a Lamont victory the result of out-of-state anti-war “angry” leftists.
Good. Let’s start calling things by their rightful names.
I’ve always suspected that could be at the core of the individual. Perhaps the easiest way to get rid of him is to get some hollywood type to offer him a sitcom. I’ll bet he’d jump for it.
Doesn’t the dad from ALF have some kind of serious drug problem? They’re going to need a replacement if they ever bring that show back.
Hey, this is unrelated–but I am trying to get a username on this site, and that seems impossible. Also, there is no contact information for Jane–am I missing it, or is this how this site works?
The nail on the head moment,
But his Bushlike inability to face reality on Iraq looks less like a stand on principle than the behavior of a narcissist who can’t admit error.
Pincus has a story up in tomorrow’s WaPo about Libby and Fitz: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01024.html
As I said in an earlier post, I think Joe has shown he has the courage to kick someone when their down. Sucking up to power is his most consistent trait. Ironically, if the Dems take over again, Joe will be the party’s biggest booster.
Ned Lamont is something altogether different. I’ve now watched far too many of his youtube videos and come to the conclusion that, in another era, Jimmy Stewart would play the guy in a movie.
“The Shrill One” is my hero of truth crying out in the wilderness. I hope this does get through to the DLC. Triangulation is essential to the survival of the Dem party. That may seem like hyperbole, but I don’t think so. The progressive netroots has an important voice. If the Dems leadership cannot find their way back to their progressive roots, the netroots will find progressive leadership.
I hope this does get through to the DLC.
Not gonna happen. They have their fingers in their ears, chanting, “LALALALALALALA not LISTENING!” Schumer and Emanuel and all their ilk as well.
They believe Clinton won because he was a centrist, and they refuse to let go of that idee fixe.
I kind of feel ike if Holy Joe were a band, he’d be the Crash Test Dummies. One of those hairballs the culture occasionally coughs up on the living room carpet. A band you ponder and wonder, “How did this happen? What confluence of events has led to me having to suffer this? Who thinks this is good?!”
neurophius 10 — the silence has been deafening.
alivingston — usernames are only for posters. Commenting is open and requires no registration.
. . . .And on the other hand, were Lamont to lose in the primary, I’d have no problemo seeing him keep up the fight & run as an Independent.
Why is it that it takes an opionion columnist like Krugman to get the real facts out? As he points out Lieberman is in trouble because of more than just his support for the Iraq war. In almost all of the other MSM coverage, from “reporters” who are supposed to deal in facts, only Liebermans support for the war is typically cited as being the source of his troubles. If we only had MSM reporters who researched the facts of a story instead of cutting and pasting from Conventional Wisdom or Republican Talking Points, the anger on the left would drop by a few degrees.
#31 Which, btw is way cool.
I second the commenter who said Krugman is not the mainstream media. He is not a blogger either. He is brilliant economist, one of the major innovators in recent developments in international economics, and rumored to be a future Nobel prize (excuse me Swedish Bank Nobel memorial) prize winner. He has done a great job of picking apart the Bush economic and tax proposals from a center (not lefty, but very definitely center) mainstream macroeconomics perspective.
I heard him speak once and he made it clear that when he took the job he had no idea he would be writing controversial but incisive and factually accurate accounts of BushCo disasters in foreign policy, and a host of other ghastlinesses. He was planning on running a high toned economics and social policy column. The poor man was caught up in events.
For several years he was directly contradicting most of the mainstream press’ WH stenography that passed for reporting (including the NYT). If you read the economics press or blogs, he was savaged repeatedly for being shrill, lefty, biased, a liar, a liberal or leftist hack. It was funny in a grim way because his column is full of facts, and he has maybe made half a dozen mistakes that were noticeable. That is a pretty good record, especially when he was being attacked by people who never had any facts at all in their columns, or whose columns were full of nothing at all but mistakes.
It would be a big mistake for anyone to think he is on this or that side, I think he will call them as he sees them. But since he apparently has committed himself to be part of the reality based community, so I guess he is on our side in a meta sort of way.
I think the NYT would have loved to get rid of him at times, but couldn’t because about half of their opinion page has become so hacky.
Friday nite followed by this… well, I do declare, I believe this is Holy Joe’s Ashlee Simpson SNL moment.
He is not a blogger either.
I know he’s not a blogger, but I think he gets lumped in with us for classification purposes. No-one so shrill could *really* be part of the MSM.
…”unleash holy hell” on the DSCC –
I can’t wait!!!
Fabulous post, Jane. The netroots ’special forces’ are ready for our marching orders. Place and time, we will be there. And so will Ned, I expect.
One of my best friends took me to see Krugman at Seattle’s Town hall for my birthday a couple of years ago. Believe me, it was a great birthday present. Most of the discussion was about the social security issue, then in heavy rotation on the news. I, too, have a bitchy little problem with the NYT keeping Krugman, Frank Rich and all the others behind that stupid firewall, but truthout and others do post those articles, usually within 24 hours of the original publication. I don’t worry about this Krugman piece getting tons and tons of attention over the next few days.
Still grinning over the Lamont coups – it certainly does change the tone. It might be interesting to ask folks like Obama is he’s still using his PAC to support Joe?
I believe this is Holy Joe’s Ashlee Simpson SNL moment.
Now there’s a disturbing visual – Joementum doing a hoedown…
One of my best friends took me to see Krugman at Seattle’s Town hall for my birthday a couple of years ago. Believe me, it was a great birthday present.
The most pleasant surprise at EschaCon last year (am I allowed to talk about such things here?) was when Krugman showed up in the audience for one of the panel discussions, and even stood up and spoke briefly. He had lunch with some of the luckier attendees, and was generous with his time afterwards as well (I got to talk to him a little bit, which was a big thrill).
Ghostman @ 9:03 pm – It’s liberal blogger Peter Daou’s idea of creating a feedback loop between the blogs, news, and politicians.
http://daoureport.salon.com/sy…..1768df79a3
G’nite,20 of the last 48 hrs working on my truck.
Tired seems understated.
(A joedown?)
OT: Bushed on Bush-whacking
http://tinyurl.com/mtzlc
Midterm elections crux of GOP strategy
Bush aides look to November vote as way to reverse precipitous slide
By Peter Baker and Jim VandeHei
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12905785/
snip
If Republicans retain Congress in November, Bush advisers note, he could assert that for the third straight election, the party defied historical patterns and popular predictions. Bush, they said, could advance a fresh agenda in early 2007. But they acknowledge a House takeover by Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) would foreshadow a contentious final two years fending off congressional subpoenas and hostile legislation.
“If she’s not the speaker, then conceptually I think we’ve turned this thing around and he has two more years to get some things done,” said Ron Kaufman, who was White House political director under George H.W. Bush and remains close to the former president. A Republican loss of the House, on the other hand, “makes the next two years that much more difficult.”
snip
Ed Rogers, a prominent Republican strategist, offered similar advice. “We need less panic among Republicans in town and on the Hill and to some degree in the states, and more energy from the White House,” he said. “Use the Rose Garden, sign some executive orders. Activity is our friend.”
MarkC at #11:
“The Wall Street Journal has an editorial about this race, and among other things, they are preparing to declare a Lamont victory the result of out-of-state anti-war “angry” leftists.”
My strong hunch is this line of attack is coming straight out the Lieberman camp. He has had no hesitation inferring his opposition is a bunch of long-haired commies, and he has nothing else of utility left to drive down turnout among fence-sitters.
The worst thing for him is an opposition that raises his long list of transgressions. It (we) might want to pick three that don’t have to do with Iraq directly.
If Republicans retain Congress in November, Bush advisers note, he could assert that for the third straight election, the party defied historical patterns and popular predictions.
If the Dems gain ground but don’t take either house, can *either* party really claim victory?
Wow. Just got back in from a wonderful performance by Janis Ian – small, intimate setting of about 200 people. It was one of the best shows I’ve seen in a long time. Funny, witty and the music was great.
So I come home in a great mood and I log on to FDL and discover this incredible op-ed by Krugman. I’ve been contributing small amounts to Lamont for a while now, hoping against hope that something impossible might happen. I was thrilled and amazed after his position in the CT primary was assured on Friday.
Already in good mood, the Krugman piece pushed me over the edge. I celebrated by dropping a few more dimes in Lamont’s hat.
Are you in a good mood too?
Finally someone in the media has gotten it right. This effort has never, ever been just about Joementum’s position on the war. Kudos to Mr Krugman for his honest statement of the facts.
As for the Wall Street Journal, propaganda piece, declaring a Lamont victory the result of out-of-state anti-war “angry” leftists, no one from out-of-state was allowed to vote in the CT caucus. While we might have provided some support and cash, Lamont’s 33.5% came from CT Democrats who were not real pleased with Good Old Joe who has been ignoring them for ages and seems to think that he deserves a Democratic Senate seat by divine right. Maybe, he caught this attitude from kissing Bush too much.
My strong hunch is this line of attack is coming straight out the Lieberman camp. He has had no hesitation inferring his opposition is a bunch of long-haired commies, and he has nothing else of utility left to drive down turnout among fence-sitters.
The worst thing for him is an opposition that raises his long list of transgressions. It (we) might want to pick three that don’t have to do with Iraq directly.
The thing with Lieberman is, Lamont can actually use the same strategy against him that Democratic challengers should be using against Republican incumbents: Tying all his pro-Bush votes around his neck and drowning him with them.
I’d like to see a lot more progressive primary challengers playing this game against wankers like Biden and Schumer and the B. Nelsons.
OT but for a little late night fun, check out the short video Hoverground* on dkos put together for YearlyKos –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17km19_1kuU
Wow that WSJ thing is AMAZING. They’re having a full-on freak out over this.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/…..=110008410
So satisfying.
OT; just watched Bahgdad ER on HBO. I’m aware of ReddHead’s support for the troops and following her sentiment (and many others’) I urge all who can to watch this program. It’s rough but it’s powerful.
I wanted to place Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld strapped into barca-loungers with their eyelids taped open to watch this program. But that might be torture, and we don’t do that.
I hope the chickenhawks watch this shit. It’s deep.
I’m proud to be an OOSAWAL*
*out-of-state anti-war “angry” leftist
Although since Friday night, “ecstatic” would be more accurate.
Go Ned.
well howdy everyone – away all day
wesgpc,
not 5 minutes ago I wondered what your opinion of Krugman was and you lay it out beautifully – some of the most intense pieces I’ve read have been of economists going at one another – your “savaged” is not an understatement, so I definitely wanted to know if you thought him sound – yeah good – plus I just like him, whole “mensch’ thing – thanks
btw – my .02, Chuck & Hil will have to say something , using Daou’s model, they may not want to respond, but they know their fellow pols read it and face will be saved . . .
MO Blue @ 9:36 pm (#50) – Rather than run from that conclusion of the WSJ editors, I hope this gets pointed out to other Democratic politicians – there’s a largely untapped resevoir of money and effort that is not going to go to the sort of Democrats who don’t represent our values. The message ought to be that if being on their own is what they want, those politicians can continue to do things as they are. If they want our help, they’re going to have to represent us much better than they have.
Is it just me or does Joe Lieberman remind you of Grandpa Joe from the original Willy Wonka (sans the mustache)?
You judge for yourself.
“Use the Rose Garden, sign some executive orders. Activity is our friend.”
Is Ed Rogers watching the same Republican party that I am? Clearly, activity is not their friend. Every time Dubya opens his mouth, his job approval ratings fall even further.
But, hey, if that’s what it takes, then by all means, RNC. Activity is your friend! Enact more legislation! The president should be spearheading Bold New Initiatives!
Because at this point, the administration are coming off like a bunch of people who, if left alone with a hundred feet of nylon rope, would literally hang themselves. You’d come back in half an hour and find them all dangling, blue-faced, from the rafters.
siun – I love the YKos video! (sorry, I meant to email you earlier saying so).
And I am more envious than ever I can’t be there.
Time Magazine Baghdad bureau chief Michael Ware on Joe Lieberman (via Atrios):
I and some other journalists had lunch with Senator Joe Lieberman the other day and we listened to him talking about Iraq. Either Senator Lieberman is so divorced from reality that he’s completely lost the plot or he knows he’s spinning a line. Because one of my colleagues turned to me in the middle of this lunch and said he’s not talking about any country I’ve ever been to and yet he was talking about Iraq, the very country where we were sitting.
I love a self-proclaimed values candidate that is twice divorced – once from his first wife and again from reality. He’ll be faxing his third set of divorce papers to Harry Reid any day now. Kevin Federline’s more faithful than Joe Lieberman.
I’m a little bit late, but…
KRUG!!!
Remember back when Krugman was one lone voice in the wilderness at the NYTimes? I do. The rest of their so-called liberal voices were not. Liberal-sounding, that is. They just toed the Republican line.
And the rest of the papers were even worse. Every day, I’d wait breathlessly for Joe Conason’s latest piece, and in between there was Krugman and, lest we forget, the sane voice of Bob Herbert. That was it.
I never got any responses from Krugman, but I really did feel as if he read my emails, because he did seem to increase the ante, when I asked him if he couldn’t do more (after acknowledging that we was already doing a lot, and was more or less alone in his effort).
Perhaps he might be lagging on the blogging talking points, but I have to give him high marks for speaking out as much as early as he did. Too bad he’s behind that damned paywall now. I worry that not enough people get to read him now.
Loved this bit from the WSJ:
Surprised we’re not being accused of being communist sympathizers. Or are people onto that one by now?
echoing Eli @ 15: love me some Shrill One, but he’s hardly representative of the CM as a whole. Still, it’s a great piece, and it may be the first fissure in a dam that will begin to leak and eventually burst.
Tim – agreed about Baghdad ER – I had to miss some of it but was really touched by what I did see and plan to watch it straight through tomorrow. Interestingly, it caught a lot of Buzz amongst yonger folk – my daughter and her friends (20-25 yr olds) were all planning to watch – and she was rivetted throughout – and very impressed with the prayer about “the senseless war” repeated at each death.
WSJ piece – I like the “ant-communist democrats” bit – as if all of us in the anti-war movement then were clearly pro-communist? still delusional after all these years WSJ?
OT…Every neocon and chickenhawk in America needs to be strapped to a chair like Alex in A Clockwork Orange and forced to watch Baghdad ER over and over.
Truly a heartbreaking film.
Rather than run from that conclusion of the WSJ editors, I hope this gets pointed out to other Democratic politicians – there’s a largely untapped resevoir of money and effort that is not going to go to the sort of Democrats who don’t represent our values. The message ought to be that if being on their own is what they want, those politicians can continue to do things as they are. If they want our help, they’re going to have to represent us much better than they have.
Hopefully the netroots cash cow becomes a little more selective. It would be interesting to see what happens if we flatly refuse to stop giving money or time to the “company men” Howard Klein described.
Donation without representation is… well, not tyranny, but pretty uncool.
I read today’s book discussion thread and thought it was great. Too bad I couldn’t be there. I loved the theme that the battles of both ideas and politics were very important in unmaking the liberal consensus.
This may not be FDL’s cup of tea. But what the hey, FDL breaks new ground every day, so I’ll run this up the flagpole. A couple of Krugman’s books would be good for discussion at the book club… and just maybe ultra persuasive people like Jane and Christy could persuade him to see a truly shrill crowd (that was a joke, OK?). Here are his three books that I think would be most interesting for the blog:
The Accidental Theorist and Other Dispatches from the Dismal Science (relevant for battle of ideas and social framing)
The Great Unraveling: Losing Our Way in the New Century (his NYT columns)
Fuzzy Math: The Essential Guide to the Bush Tax Plan (relevance obvious)
A little bloggin with Krugman would be extremely relevant to the ideas part of book discussion today.
He might do it. He might like to be one of the more conservative ones in the crowd again. Just for change of pace. Just for old time’s sake.
Eli: sorry, didn’t mean to lecture. I want to make sure everyone understands exactly who he is. He’s one of my tribe, you know, and has been frequently misrepresented. Especially when he critiques Bush economic policy. He is not a liberal pundit, or a hack, or a partisan. He is about the only authoritative voice of mainstream centrist economics allowed to speak anywhere in corporate media today. Of course, can be conceded that mainstream centrist economics ain’t great shakes. But it the best coherent theory about how economies work, so it’s all we have even if it ain’t that much. When you totally abandon it you get messes (LBJ Vietnam inflation, Nixon/Carter energy messes, CA energy deregulation mess, and of course, Reagan supply side, and of course, BuchCo) Taken with a few grains of salt, it is useful.
MattO – that is pretty funny. Is that Jack Warden? Saw the movie so long ago I can’t recall.
I relish the fact that Krugman took Leiberman down in the New York paper that Schumer and Hillary read every morning.
which band is Lieberman? Joe’s of Clay
WSJ: The left’s larger goal is to turn the Democratic Party solidly against the war on terror, and especially against its Iraq and Iran fronts.
So, I guess they’re using this opportunity to set the stage…
I never got any responses from Krugman, but I really did feel as if he read my emails, because he did seem to increase the ante, when I asked him if he couldn’t do more (after acknowledging that we was already doing a lot, and was more or less alone in his effort).
Did you see when he said that NYT management had expressly forbidden him to use the word “lie” in reference to Dubya until after the 2000 election? I can’t remember when it was, but it stuck in my mind as a very shocking and awful thing.
What freaks at the WSJ! Are Democrats supposed to be feeling shame?Check out just one weird quote from the article Jane linked:
“The left’s larger goal is to turn the Democratic Party solidly against the war on terror, and especially against its Iraq and Iran fronts. Mr. Lamont’s performance will be noticed by Democratic Presidential hopefuls, some of whom (Al Gore, John Kerry) are already maneuvering to get to Hillary Rodham Clinton’s antiwar left.”
HA!
This week senatorial warmongers sure got the old One-Two, or as Lenny Bruce used to say, the old Zippo-Bang.
McCain fried with a Jean Rohe smart bomb.
Chimpy’s cuddle-buddy Lieberman bread-basketed by Ted Lamont.
Not that I’m into politics as a blood sport or anything like that.
Shoephone – glad you like it – we’re having fun with it and enjoying the energy. (and with a short time to go, we need a lot of energy!)
I love the fact that FDL is in there – and that we celebrate the pen as “weapon” and … well..
it just makes me smile.
We’ll miss you there but you’ll be doing what we’ll be talking about!
And I am glad that Krugman nailed the nonsense that anti-Lieberman movement is all about the supposed “Iraq war vote.” I do wonder when the corporate media comes out with BS like that, all at once, just like the BushCo punditcorps, just how corrupt it all is. Wonder how many corporate chiefs have outright prostituted their organizations for getting the laws and regs they want.
ccmask #46:
Ed Rogers, a prominent Republican strategist, offered similar advice. “We need less panic among Republicans in town and on the Hill and to some degree in the states, and more energy from the White House,” he said. “Use the Rose Garden, sign some executive orders. Activity is our friend.”
Heh. They still don’t get it. “Hey everybody, look busy!”
60-70% of the people have caught on to the fact that they’re not governing, they’re running a racket for their own benefit. Generating more “activity” isn’t going to change that.
I wanted to see Baghdad ER but I don’t have HBO. I hope it comes out on DVD soon.
As for the WSJ piece, something I noticed with right-wingers is that they cannot give up the fact that communism is, by all intents and purposes, dead (and never actually implemented by the process in which Karl Marx outlined in the Communist Manifesto). But they cling to it like a child does a pacifier.
Cujo 64
No, we’re just terrorist sympathizers. Get with the times.
Googled for Lowell Weicker bio…
Down about the fifth entry you start getting hits of Leiberman. CNN’s bio of Leiberman (dated Aug. 7 2000) has this:
“Lowell Weicker, whom he defeated in a close race with conservative support.”
Wonder where the ‘conservative support’ came from.
Just sayin’ — I figure the wingnuts were sick of northeast liberal maverick Lowell and subbed in a DINO stealthy-like.
Weicker later proved popular enough statewide to take the Governor’s office as an Indy. Probably due to perception he was principled.
——
Lamont looks like he’s got principles. And stands by ‘em. I figure Lamont’s team has 10 weeks of hell planned for Joe.
Eli @ 9:51 pm (#68) – That’s the point. You don’t have to give money to the DSCC, the DCC, or the Democratic Party and hope that some of it goes to the kind of candidates you favor. You can go find a list of them at ActBlue (Howie Kleins, for instance), and pick candidates who believe in what you do who are running in other parts of the country. There’s enough information out there that you can probably do this no matter what your views are.
I recommend that people either find a list like Howie’s that represents politicians they find interesting, make their own ActBlue page, or just go to political websites you agree with and find out who they’re supporting. It’s all possible, and I think it’s a hell of an improvement over things like the DSCC.
Eli: sorry, didn’t mean to lecture.
No worries. I understand what Krugman is, but I also understand how he is officially designated as a Shrill Unhinged Moonbat.
He is not a liberal pundit, or a hack, or a partisan. He is about the only authoritative voice of mainstream centrist economics allowed to speak anywhere in corporate media today.
Wait, are you suggesting that mainstream centrist economics has an anti-Republican bias?
I may swoon.
meta 74 — they’ve flipped out. Angry? I’m laughing my ass off.
neurophius #80
I’m a Constitution-sympathizer.
From the WSJ piece:
Mr. Lieberman will still be favored to win the primary, but angry-left activists around the country will now descend on the state and the fight may well turn vicious.
Snerk!!
neurophius @ 9:57 pm (#80) – Clearly I need to spend time in a reeducation camp. I’m sure there will be one in my neighborhood in a few years, so I’ll just wait for it to open up. Until then, I may be a little behind the times.
Redshift: I like the theme of more activity for the Bush Regime. The more active they become, the more they screw up.
That’s the point. You don’t have to give money to the DSCC, the DCC, or the Democratic Party and hope that some of it goes to the kind of candidates you favor. You can go find a list of them at ActBlue (Howie Kleins, for instance), and pick candidates who believe in what you do who are running in other parts of the country. There’s enough information out there that you can probably do this no matter what your views are.
Yeah, I’ve pretty much started supporting candidates a la carte. What I also need to start doing is responding to all national-level funding requests with something along the lines of “Get bent. I’ll start contributing to you when you start representing me.”
I’m in PA, where the DSCC put all its support behind Bob Casey Jr., who may end up being even *worse* than Joementum. Ugh.
Jane, it’s hysterical! They think Hillary is part of the anti-war left, and that somehow being against Liebershill is not going to get us anywhere and that whole bit about Viet Nam???? It’s just pathetic sniveling at it’s finest. Bwahhahhahaaaaa! That column belongs on the comics page.
Is this where the rubber meets the road?????
Yes, more activity for the Bush Regime. Contained, though. Well contained activity.
Yes, more activity for the Bush Regime. Contained, though. Well contained activity.
Mars, bitches!
Matt O. 85
“I’m a Constitution-sympathizer.”
So am I, so are we all. Do you think that means anything to the WSJ? They are stuck in a pre-1776 mindset.
http://www.boston.com/news/glo…..he_choice/
…”By David Greenberg | May 21, 2006
EARLIER THIS MONTH, two contenders for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination stood together to stop what they saw as a dangerous drift in their party’s stance on national security. At the National Press Club on May 9, Indiana Senator Evan Bayh summoned Democrats to dig in for ”what will in all likelihood be a generation-long struggle against jihadism and radical, suicidal terror.” Former Virginia governor Mark Warner agreed that his partymates had to refute Karl Rove’s taunt that they cling to a ”pre-9/11 worldview” by championing their own plans to fight al Qaeda. Though neither man named names, they implicitly chided their party’s growing antiwar faction for railing against Bush’s record without offering a vision of how to protect America.
The vision Bayh and Warner offered is one being heard increasingly from a host of younger journalists and policy mavens-from newly formed groups like the Truman National Security Project and the Foreign Policy Leadership Council to New Republic editor-at-large Peter Beinart, the author of a much-discussed new manifesto. It’s an approach that repudiates the Democrats’ post-Vietnam reluctance to use military power. Yet it also views armed force as part of an arsenal of tools-including economic development, robust alliances, and international law and institutions-that the US, as the world’s de facto leader, must be ready to employ.
Such a vision would seem quite appealing, especially in a global age when there’s no drawbridge for America to pull up. Yet no sooner had reports of Bayh and Warner’s remarks appeared than they-and their way of thinking-came under fire from the bloggers and pundits whose influence among party activists they were seeking to curb. Across the Web, the politicians and their ilk were slammed as ”warmongers,” ”Vichy Democrats,” and ”enablers” of a Republican regime. And such attacks are nothing new. For months the left has been belittling the thinking of the internationalists, scoffing at how many of them backed Bush’s invasion of Iraq, with The Nation-the flagship magazine of the antiwar faction-refusing to support any Democratic office-seeker who won’t seek a speedy pullout.
Beneath this internecine party warfare lies a fundamental, and possibly debilitating, ideological divide. Liberals, who tend to view terrorism as the chief foreign policy concern, have been trying to revive the philosophy of internationalism-the belief that US intervention abroad can be noble in intent and beneficial in its results. Leftists, on the other hand, viewing the Iraq War as the most urgent problem, more often subscribe to a philosophy that might be called anti-imperialism-the belief that US intervention abroad is typically avaricious in intent and malign in its results.”…
Meta: Sniveling. Yes!
Bwahahaha! Yes!
Do you think that means anything to the WSJ? They are stuck in a pre-1776 mindset.
That King George is so resolute and manly…
another washed up Lieberband:
Hootie and the Joe-Fish
Dueling opinions — let the games begin! Krugman goes after the truth and the “man”– WSJ goes after us and protects the incumbent “centrist” charlatans…….. it is hilarious.
Eli @ 10:06 pm (#89) – Good case in point. I sent a small amount of money to one of Casey’s primary opponents (via Howie’s list). He didn’t win, of course, and all the ActBlue money put together didn’t amount to very much, but what there was all went to Pennacchio. If I’d given that same money to the DSCC, it probably would have gone to Casey, and certainly would not have gone to a candidate I liked. There would have been far less of it, as well, because most would have gone to candidates in other races I might not have cared about, and to “administrative” costs, much of which, I’m sure, is paying for Sen. Schumer to travel to each of these candidates to tell them “Some day, I may ask you for a favor …”.
From WSJ:
“John McCain and Joe Lieberman feel the wrath of the antiwar left.”
I would like to know how many corrupt editors get the same damn faxes that Mehlman and Brooks and etc. get and write their commentaries, and opinion pieces, and potted, tendentious, slanted “news analysis” pieces around them. I mean, like, how many times have I read this exact line. And it is total BS. We expect it from the WSJ op-ed, but I have seen this exact line several times over the weekend. Can it be coincidence? All wrong and wrong in exactly the same way?
It is about McCain too? What disgusted me about McCain reading his talk on a Sunday show some time ago that he ticked off all ways the Iraq war had become a disaster, and how military options for Iran and Syria would be more of the same but worse. But what does he recommend? Follow Dear Leader. I didn’t believe he believed a word of it. That is what disgusted me.
cbl #57: if you read a cross section of good mainstream economics blogs, Krugman doesn’t get savaged. Sometimes nitpicking and disagreements, or pointing out one of his rare mistakes. But they don’t savage. Search for Krugman in Brad DeLong, Economist’s View, Angry Bear, or Econobrowser. Krugman doesn’t get savaged in good mainstream center-right blogs either, but you can link to those from ones mentioned above.
Well,the WSJ can just keep their blinders on and think that it’s ALL about the Iraq war. They won’t see what’s coming. I don’t suppose they would have a clue what “Rape Gurney Joe” refers to…
We need a giant gerbil ball to put the Bushies in and then just put up child gates where we don’t want them to go. They could go around and around in their own area. We could get a really bit gerbil ball and put the bushies in half of it and maybe the one-eyed Mullah and his bunch in the other half of it –arm both sides with stink bombs and firecrackers and stuff.
neurophius
Agreed.
I’ve often thought that the basic dividing line between liberals and conservatives is whether they think the Vietnam-era antiwar protests were a great popular movement or an awful unpatriotic one (for those old enough to have lived through them or grown up with them.)
The WSJ is another attempt at the “stab in the back” strategy we all knew was coming. I don’t think it will work, since public opinion turned against the war without being driven by mass protests (not that there weren’t any, just that they aren’t percieved as the cause) but we have to be prepared to fight it every step of the way.
Slightly OT, but when Jason Leopold broke his story in Salon about Army Secretary White’s involvement with Enron’s California energy scam, Krugman cited it in his column. When Leopold’s source recanted, the NY Times sandbagged him, and Salon hung him out to dry. Krugman apologized, and Leopold flipped out. I calmed him down, and persuaded him that a jihad against Krugman was not in anyone’s interest.
My guess is Krugman won’t be using Leopold as a source for any TreasonGate columns.
Good case in point. I sent a small amount of money to one of Casey’s primary opponents (via Howie’s list). He didn’t win, of course, and all the ActBlue money put together didn’t amount to very much, but what there was all went to Pennacchio.
Loved Pennacchio. What all politicians should be, and a real nice guy. Came to Pittsburgh Drinking Liberally and stuck around for 2-3 hours talking to people one on one.
Angry, schmangry. When “The Jane Hamshers Of The Left” is the lead op-ed in the WSJ, that’s when you’ll know we’ve hit the mainstream.
Should be fun.
neurophius I agree. I wish they’d said something nasty about the feminists. I feel sort of left out , like they aren’t afraid of me.
Course I haven’t finished it yet. Perhaps I speak too soon.
We need a giant gerbil ball to put the Bushies in and then just put up child gates where we don’t want them to go. They could go around and around in their own area. We could get a really bit gerbil ball and put the bushies in half of it and maybe the one-eyed Mullah and his bunch in the other half of it –arm both sides with stink bombs and firecrackers and stuff.
All you’d have to do is tell ‘em that it’d keep them safe from terrorists.
Hooo boy, that WSJ article is a hoot and a half, indeed.
It’s not just that the voice in it sounds like a “concern troll,” which it does for sure, it’s that it also sounds like…wait a minute…who? Oh I know:
Frank Burns on the teevee version of MASH!
Honest to God, next thing you know you’ll hear that some of these people think Sen. Joe McCarthy was a hero!
Are these the same people that toured the country in the early seventies singing “Up With People”?
I dreamed I saw Joe Lieb last night
Not quite up as you and me
Says I, “But Joe, you’re ten points down,”
“I never died,” says he, “I never died,” says he.
Just digging around and found this old 2001 article about Joe and his bud Lynne Cheney, mother of Mary Late for Lunch Cheney, and married to the guy who, on or about February 11, 2006, posing as Vice President of the Excited States of America, Dick Deadeye Cheney, turned sharply and swiftly toward the blinding sun and shot a 78-year-old man in the face and heart while hunting down witless pen-raised quail with his custom-made cold hard paid-for $23,000 Italian piece after drinking a bunch of “beers” on a privately owned 50,000 acre county accompanied by two younger missing women, neither of whom were his wife. He also figured his twitchy-jawed recovering substance abuser boss and that gooper sheriff stand-in wouldn’t care that he shot a guy, so he poured himself a couple more and waited until Monday morning or whenever he felt like it to tell The Man. Then, citing from his world famous Ofuscation 101 Manual of Precision Tooling, he fashioned a wet blanket campaign of disinformation intended for blind consumption by the entire universe as seen on Fox TeeVee. Dick Deadeye Cheney is the first sitting VP to shoot a man since Aaron Burr. Burr, unlike Deadeye, did not commit treason until after leaving office.
Anyway, here is how Joe and Lynne like to hang out and get shit done.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1213-05.htm
Article in our “Fair & Balanced” AZ Republic (we just call it Republican) about blogs. So this has hit clear out here in the sticks.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/…..s0507.html
The article is slanted, there is a longer list of the right leaning blogs AND NO mention of FDL but…. what do you expect from the 5th largest city in the US. Someday we just might join the 21st Century!
ccmask –
You DID make me laugh out loud with the Joe Hill parody.
[And then it made me sad, ’cause I LOVE that song and all it represented so much. Hate to think of the Lieberjerk in connection with it. Sigh.]
Katymine -
Hello fellow Arizonan!
May I suggest an executive order that the administration only be allowed the strenuous activity of croquet and badminton every day in the Rose Garden. It should keep their hands off what’s left of our Constitution and their minds off all those pending indictments… all wingnut senators, corporate media, and Medal of Freedom recipients will be encouraged to attend to applaud the amazing prowess and clever stratergery of this WH.
Katymine #112: hmm…. blogging, that is done with what internet geeks call “computers”, right? Are those the “electronic brains” that all the top scientists are talking about?
Mrs K8 – don’t forget, Ann Coulter thinks Joe McCarthy was a hero.
meta 74- Are Democrats supposed to be feeling shame?
Any attempt at shaming in the WSJ piece wilts when one separates the substantive meanings within the pairing of “Rude college kids and left-wing professors” with Ned Lamont’s remarkable showing in CT.
Go Ned !!!
Katymine –
I absolutely despise that filthy rag, and am almost grateful for the occasional phone call we get asking us “don’t [we] want to subscribe”?
I always toy with the poor telemarketer on the other end, asking him/her to tell me what they think is so “good” about the paper, and then I make him/her listen to MY opinion of it, the full entire rant.
shoephone –
Yeah, I know that. (S)he and Malkin are a real pair in the “most dreadful historical revisionism” category.
Last night Mr. K8 and I finally got to see “Good Night and Good Luck” on DVD, and it was great. An added plus was Geo. Clooney’s deadpanning comments in an included commentary on the film. It’s clear he has no patience with idolizers of ol’ Joe.
Muzzy, as if going to college or being a professor were in itself tantamount to being a traitor. How dare anyone challenge the establishment? This is all such recycled BS from the 60’s. These people are very, very afraid.
Ha!
“Good Night and Good Luck” is a great film. Haven’t seen the DVD version yet. I still like going out to the movies.
Katymine @ 10:23 pm (#112) – It could be worse. Actually, that looks like a fairly representative list if you’re looking for political balance. The examples of stories about blogs, I suspect, seem slanted because they want to not be accused of covering more lefty blogs by their readers, who no doubt can smell a librul media conspiracy a mile away even when they’re upwind of it.
Read the article just for the entertainment. It is writen like a stern parent would be explaining something VERY VERY complicated to a child… YE GAD!
Rag…. I get a local version dumped off in my driveway several times a week “for free” and I am constantly calling the Repug to stop it saying I am going to call the city and ask they get charged for littering!
Hi MattO… Mrs. K8, are you in AZ too?
I think Joe is most like that midget kiss tribute band that uses backing tracks, no original material.
Hello, fellow Arizonans. Best feature of AZ Republic: Benson’s cartoons.
From the WSJ’s loonybin:
Um, I’m guessing that, unlike pampered WSJ editorial teams, those at the New School walk past the WTC site quite often, rather than waving it as a bloody shroud. Oh, and what exactly is their fucking point, since Jean Rohe spoke about the still-uncaptured Osama and a war against a country with no involvement in 9/11. Sad, sad WSJ. WATBs with the cover of anonymity.
What is most encouraging about all this, is that even with all of the fluffing and whoring the MSM does for Bush and the GOP, the public has wised up — meaning, the MSM’s credibility is in the toilet along with Bush’s.
Americans aren’t dumb — they are just treated that way by the media whores.
Also:
What are the odds on the author of this piece being either too young to fight (or remember) Vietnam, or one of those who managed to have ‘other priorities’ while it was being fought?
I absolutely despise that filthy rag, and am almost grateful for the occasional phone call we get asking us “don’t [we] want to subscribe”?
With respect, the WSJ shows basic capitalism in action: you have to pay for the news, but they give away their opinions for nothing. Yes, that’s to ensure that they play their part in the Wurlitzer — the exact opposite of the NYT — but it shows that they believe no-one would pay a brass farthing to read the editorial page or the Nooner.
Katymine –
Yup. Although Mr. K8 and I still think of it as “being in exile.” I had no idea what a Northeastern girl I am until I moved to the Southwest. I like a lot of the people here, but I sure am homesick — even after more than 10 years.
We came out not by choice (in the sense of “where would YOU like to live”) but to care for a terminally ill family member.
By the time that horrible but very important and meaningful task was completed, Mr. K8 had the audacity to get himself a truly wonderful job he enjoys very much, with as much job security as is possible in this crazy world, and with a boss who is terrific and gives his employees great benefits (he’s a European, you see, and hates to think of employees paying for health care or not having good vacation time). So that was nothing to sneeze at. In the meantime, the job market “back home” started sucking serious lemon, especially for someone in our *mature* age range.
So we’re stuck.
But we try to make the most of it!
Are you one of those rare creatures, a born and bred Arizonan? Or are you a transplant, too?
Hi to Matt, too! Good to see this dusty state so well represented at FDL!
Yep. It’s all our fault that we convinced the rest of the nation to stop the senseless slaughter in Vietnam. Darn us.
Hi Friends. This will probably be lost at the end of the thread for tonight, or has already been linked, but this fifteen year-old has more smarts and guts in his left great toe than Bush has had his whole lifetime.
Future Senator??
pseudonymous –
I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough in my post: the “filthy rag” I meant in that quote was the “Arizona Republic,” not the WSJ.
I have been to two Air America events here with Benson drawing his cartoons or just showing them. What a hoot. He did fill in for one of our local Talk show hosts for a week. Great progressive.
You all hold the fort down for me this week, will be traveling. Hopefully will be able to check in during the evening….
Don’t do anything really fun like a real Fitzmas without me…..
pseudonymous in nc #130: you an economist? You hit the business model on the head. And, if any sane person just read the news section of WSJ for six months, what would be the odds of guessing that swill would be on the oped page?
29% JAR and they still spew– it is patriotic and mainstream to continue to support lies and the lying liars who told them. I honestly do not understand… this is what “they” are teaching their kids, rolling it out and justifying it as support for the troops and national security when it is so clearly neither. Rude college kids indeed.
this bit really got me:
>>>>>>>>>>>
Speaking of “havoc,” Ms. Rohe spoke only blocks from the site of the former World Trade Center. The Senator who spent years in the Hanoi Hilton reacted with admirable restraint to these insults,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
well, there you go. Punished for speaking truth to power– summon up 9/11 & swift boat the young lady and question her patriotism and gratitude all in a couple of not so cleverly disguised wingnut boilerplate…neat-o.
What alternative did McCain have– hit her, storm out, scream foul, beat his chest, cry? Heroic McCain– restrained. sheesh.
motherlowman –
A shout-out to you, too! And I agree about Benson. You ever see him on the daily half-hour PBS local news show, “Horizon”?
He’s a smart-ass after my own heart.
‘Shake your fundraiser, Joe’
;>)
With respect, the WSJ shows basic capitalism in action: you have to pay for the news, but they give away their opinions for nothing. Yes, that’s to ensure that they play their part in the Wurlitzer — the exact opposite of the NYT — but it shows that they believe no-one would pay a brass farthing to read the editorial page or the Nooner.
So *both* papers make their more right-wing side available for free, and their more reality-based side behind the paywall. Interesting.
They ARE quite touchy at the WSJ, aren’t they? Concern trolling equals fear and helplessness.
They’re feeling the strain from every direction and it’s beautiful to see.
Bullseye Jane, as per usual.
Maybe your post will help the NYT’s figure out how much FDL can help drive traffic to their site? I guarantee the wingnut blogs don’t do that.
Wonderful thread, so many great comments too.
Anyone who wants, can join me in trying to bring Krugman’s article to the the WaPo’s attention
washingtonpost.com’s Daily Politics Discussion
Dan Balz Washington Post Chief Political Reporter Monday, May 22, 2006; 11:00 ET
Gotta catch up on all the other threads I have missed.
Meta 111
That Deadeye Dick Cheney piece seems to get better every time I see it. So Mrs. Deadeye is in bed with Uncle Joe [pardon the hideous visual image] in an effort to equate academic freedom with terrorism. I am not surprised. I guess Lynne wanted to make it a “bipartisan” effort. What a joke. She knew just whom to turn to. Bush’s favorite “Democrat.” Dick’s too, I’m sure. She probably said, “You’re either with us or against us.” Joe replied, “Bring it on!”
my 137– i meant to say couple of sentences… getting too late, i see.
darkblack, you are incorrigible! I need to install one of those eyeball flushing devices they have in laboratories….
Katy –
Have a safe trip! We just returned from one recently, and the worst part of being away was missing FDL.
If anything big goes down in the interim, we’ll save a noisemaker for ya. How’s that?
It’s fitting how the WSJ piece shoots the Bush image of the Iraq war in the foot by highlighting comparisons to Viet Nam.
Mrs. K8, motherloman
Sure are a lot of us here at FDL. I was a “transplant” from California to go to school here.
Excellent post. It’s a gradual process to be sure, that the blogosphere creeps into the national mainstream dialogue, but fwiw, I think it’s pretty clear that olberman, too, picks up nuggets here and there. That influence will grow – both because it’s obvious the blogs are becoming major players in politics; and with the growing attempts to shut them down or control access in some way – people who aren’t engaged will wonder what all the hubbub is, and finally discover what they’ve been missing.
MrsK8, not a true native but lived here when I was a kid k-8 grade in Wickenburg back before the Black Canyon hiway was built and just broke ground on Sun City.
Came here to excape a nasty divorce from 19 yrs in Oregon. HI Jane…. can talk rain jokes…. did you know that you don’t tan in Oregon, you just rust?
Found out that AZ was in my soul and blood. BTW today I was elected Chair of our local DFA group today. We have our meetups first Wednesday of the month… have to farm it out next month as I am going to YearlyKOS…..!!!!!!!!!!!
Alright… catch you all later, I have a 8 am flight and need my beauty sleep…
neurophius –
I missed the bit about Lynne and Joe in bed together, up to no good, but almost 2 years ago now, IIRC, Mrs. Deadeye was responsible for getting control of what history books are used in public schools.
They really are Stalinists, aren’t they?
This is a great story about the Right’s next crazy great adventure… a new and improved social wedgie issue! Yes, abortion, same sex marriage aned right to life are out. Big Love is in the air and god bless HBO for being there. hehe Thiws is a good read.
–
Polygamy: Loading The Barrels To Ignite the Right
May 21, 2006
Odd that an anti-gun advocate would use a gun-related metaphor to posture an idea. But such perversity befits the Republicans’ next likely campaign of fear… which employs, as always, the compliant, irresponsible press. Yes, it’s true, the malleable media is once again the Republicans’ sucker, nestled at the breast of Karl Rove, lapping up the mother’s milk of his party: manipulation and fear. Wittingly or unwittingly, the media is lending a hand to Rove’s eventual double-barreled assault on gay and plural marriage. A swift-boated wedge to penetrate the susceptible minds of his base from now through November… and on to 2008.
Even the Feds are playing their part.
snip
The media is at the ready. CNN’s Anderson Cooper can’t get enough of Warren Jeffs. He’s abandoned the devastation of the bayou to pursue the polygamist King. He squats outside Jeffs’ compounds, waiting for members to appear. The famously emotional anchor is bewitched by the polygamous world, trading his “I’m a reporter” proclamation for these endless tabloid stays. A further testament to the dumbed-down sensationalism of ’round the clock cable TV. snip
For the rest of the story. http://www.opednews.com/articl…..ing_th.htm
good nite all.
Jane – totally OfT -
a black bear was killed on Ravenna Blvd early this morning right up the street from where I used to live (and down the street from where you went to school). It had been roaming around in Shoreline last week and it all came to a very sad end about 12:30 this morning. And if anybody believes that tasers guns don’t kill, well, think again.
Drat it,
Gotta go for now — gotta tuck Mr. K8 in, as he gets up early in the a.m.
Great to identify other AZ residents here! Maybe we can meet in real life sometime. I’d surely love it. See y’all later!
p.s. if anyone’s interested, there’s a terrifically restored 1921 Rudolf Valentino movie on TCM right now. The clothes and the furniture are as much fun to check out as the actors…
The right wing is still hung up on the idea that the “anti-war left” lost the Vietnam war. Whenever I hear that I like to remind them that the reason we lost the war was because the Vietnamese kicked our ass.
Karl Rove is a pigamist.
Mrs. K8 (#109):
Ann Coulter has already done just that (defended tail gunner Joe).
darkblack @138 – Very, very naughty of you. And as soon as I stop laughing I’ll be able to post my comment.. Oh geez.
Matt O. >”…I’m a Constitution-sympathizer”
Keeper !!!
That would look good on a t-shirt, maybe with the FDL flame
“The age of the mass media is just that — an age. It doesn’t have to last forever.” – Jay Rosen
Now how do I sleep tonight with that image in me head, darkblack???
Must try…goodnight, all.
shoephone @ 11:07 pm (#153) – Why in the world would someone taser a black bear? The charges are set for a human, it’s hard to imagine it would do any more than piss off a bear.
Another Bruce(#155):
The Vietnamese didn’t kick our asses. We just got up and left. We did not have a good reason to be there though, and when that became obvious there was nothing left to do.
David Sirota has a grat post at MyDD –
2006: The Year the Progressive Movement Became a Movement
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/5/21/185048/198
There are many reasons to be optimistic these days if you are a progressive. A look accross 2006’s campaign landscape shows that our movement is no longer theoretical – it is very real, and increasing in power every single day. But as the Denver Post today notes in a piece about our growing movement, progressives also face stiff opposition in the form of a corrupt political Establishment desperate to preserve the status quo. The confrontation brewing between this new movement and the Establishment is not to be downplayed – it is escalating, and it will have profound results that go far beyond just one election.
The Denver Post notes that those defending the status quo are, to be sure, entrenched. “Political corruption comes in two varieties,” the Post notes. “There are brazen payoffs, and then there is a kind of gooey rot: the venal abandonment of principles, spurred by the favors of corporate lobbyists and the need for campaign cash.” Ultimately, “All but the toughest pols and pundits get seduced, and over time, the party establishment starts to stipulate: globalization is a blessing, free trade is sacred, billionaires need tax breaks, job loss is inevitable, workers are expendable, wages will decline, the war in Iraq is necessary.”
The Post is absolutely right – there is a “gooey rot.” But it is being challenged everywhere you look. Though both parties’ Beltway-based political operatives and consultants have tried to downplay what’s going on throughout the heartland, we can see the tell-tale signs of a true progressive populist movement emerging – one that is not just a wing of the Democratic Party Establishment in Washington, but an actual movemen bubbling up from outside the Beltway, based on real conviction, and serious about seizing power.
Click “Read More” for the rest…
daCascadian
I agree, Jane should jump on that one. (I expect royalties.)
Here’s a campaign t-shirt for you (with this image):
OT – I used to live right off of Ravenna in Seattle. Do you have any kind of link for into on the bear?
Wall Street Journal says: “The great mistake that leading Democrats and anti-Communist liberals made during Vietnam was not speaking up against a left that was demanding retreat and sneering at our war heroes. Will any Democrat speak up now?”
Wow! Where were they in the 60’s? Doing too much acid, I guess, eh?
I seem to recall this thing called the 1968 Democratic Convention, with Mayor Daley’s police tear-gassing and whomping the crap out of anti-war protestors in the streets of Chicago, just outside the Convention. However, I don’t think any of that helped Hubert Humphrey against Nixon, did it?
And I’ve been thinking about Humphrey a lot. I just posted about him over in Eschaton’s comments, only seconds ago. Hillary has poised herself as the Hubert Humphrey of the coming 2008 election cycle. By this, I mean that her whole gameplan is to avoid the issue of her support for a clearly f’ed up war and throw out a bunch of puny social-policy tweak suggestions as if that is enough to take everybody’s mind off the overriding concern of the public: The QUAGMIRE. The 2008 campaign theme, like 1968’s, will be Denial.
Somehow, I don’t think it will be anymore successful.
MAtt O – that photo of the despondent campaign worker made me wonder if Joe will soon suffer a “Staff ill o’caucus defection”
Well, here’s Kurtz on Leopold; note that he mentions something explosive not once, but twice in rapid succession. He paints Luskin as a wonderful pet owner, too. Nice job NRO, wifey and Rover.
>>>>>>>>>>>
The claim that President Bush’s top political strategist had been indicted in the CIA leak investigation was written by a journalist who has battled drug addiction and mental illness and been convicted of grand larceny. That didn’t stop more than 35 reporters — from all the major newspapers, networks and newsmagazines — from calling Luskin or Rove’s spokesman, Mark Corallo, to check it out.
The reports appeared on the liberal Web site Truthout.org, run by Marc Ash, a former advertising man and fashion photographer in California. Jason Leopold, the author of the stories, directed inquiries to Ash, who says that “we stand by the story. We have multiple points of independent confirmation of what we originally reported. Our problem is, the prosecutor’s office is under no obligation to go public.”
Leopold acknowledges in a new book, “News Junkie,” that he is a past liar, convicted felon and former alcoholic and cocaine addict. An earlier version of the book was canceled by publisher Rowman & Littlefield last year.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01374.html
punaise -
I wouldn’t be surprised if people start jumping ship and soon. Although, I think Katherine Harris has the Guiness record for campaign abandonments.
Matt O. – horsey-lady is indeed in a league of her own, but maybe not furlong.
Something I heard on NPR about the Vietnam War, maybe 8 years ago.
In 1967, Marine officer did a statistical analysis of the kill ratios, based on the real numbers of VC and NVA troops that were in the field. The military had been understating their manpower by more than 50%; the CIA’s estimates were correct.
McNamara had a brilliant mind for numbers, and was famous for knowing how much a tail light assembly on a Mustang cost — and what it would mean to Ford if they could save with small reductions in unit costs.
This Marine Officer told McNamara that it would take a commitment of 1.2 million men for twenty years to defeat the North Vietnamese. It was this presentation that turned McNamara against the war.
America didn’t lose in Vietnam — we had no business going in, it wasn’t our war, and all we did was delay the inevitable.
I missed Mrs K8!! Damn.
I have to sleep too, it’s after 2:30 here in EST, but no work tomorrow, just lovely sleep.
Goodnight all
bonne nuit, zennurse.
ck
If I remember correctly, McNamara talked about the necessary ratio to defeat an insurgency was like 10:1.
Oh, and if you guys haven’t seen Fog of War, go out and get it. I really enjoyed it. I love documentaries like that.
Cujo359 – don’t know if you’re still here (and I’m heading toward the pillow soon) but the cops chased the bear through the U District, shot him with a tranquilizer dart. It didn’t take right away and he went running. They cornered him at 20th and Ravenna, and tasered him again and again – until it killed him. The whole thing really makes me sick.
angie #170: “past liar, convicted felon and former alcoholic and cocaine addict.”
Gee, who else fits that description?…
Redshift, now let me see… hmmmm.
Apparently, all this Internet noise is going to fade away, leaving the DLC to run a serious candidate for President in 2008….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01182.html
angie @ 11:35 pm (#170) – This is the face of the new Washington Post – when a story indicating that the President’s closest adviser may be charged with a felony, don’t bother to check it out if it comes from someone who isn’t completely trustworthy.
Each time I think Howie Kurtz can’t say something dumber, he manages.
Ellen in NZ – here’s a link
http://www.seattlepi.nwsource……ear22.html
Seattle bear story link :
“…Chandler said he and officers had wanted to capture the bear and return it to the wild.
He said the bear — about 3 years old and 150 to 175 pounds — was likely the same one spotted in Shoreline last week. It probably walked undetected through the city at night, feeding on trash.
“The bottom line is, it was not our intention to kill this bear,” Chandler said…”
Still the wild, wild west around here I guess…
“We are accustomed to the new land yet attached to the old country” – anon
Cujo @ 181– agreed.
How long do you think they conspired to get this colorful tidbit just right? Yoo-hoo, Babs?
>>>>>>>>>>
Robert Luskin, Karl Rove’s lawyer, says he spent most of the day on May 12 taking his cat to the veterinarian and having a technician fix his computer at home.
He was stunned, therefore, when journalists started calling to ask about an online report that he had spent half the day at his law office, negotiating with Patrick Fitzgerald — and that the special prosecutor had secretly obtained an indictment of Rove.
The cat’s medical tests, Luskin says, found that “the stools were free of harmful parasites, which is more than I can say for this case.”
shoephone @ 11:47 pm (#177) – In fairness, if the bear had hurt or killed someone before it went to sleep, you know the police would have been blamed. I don’t think most city police departments are set up to handle quadrupeds, and if the local parks folks can’t deal with the situation, it’s not likely there’s a good backup plan.
I haven’t heard of any black bear sitings in Seattle before. That leads me to think they’re rather rare.
Every so often a mountain lion wanders down from the Santa Cruz Mountains into the suburbs on the fringes of Silicon Valley (Los Gatos*, Palo Alto, etc.). Great commotion ensues and park rangers are summoned. They shoot to kill, alas, for fear that a wounded cat would bound off in a rampage.
* original name: La Rinconada de Los Gatos – the corner of the cats
Matt O –
The appropriate force levels to control insurgencies were kicked around in the blogs several years ago — as I recall, 10 to 1 is the number needed for effective supression, and that’s what we have in the Balkans. In Iraq, the real numbers were somewhere between 3 to 1 and 5 to 1 — and that’s based on the Tinkerbell strategy of clapping real hard until the dead enders give up.
A quick search found a site that says in 1968, the US/ARVN force totalled 750,000 or so; the VC/NVA had 420,000. That’s not even 2 to 1. It also says the VC/NVA had 1.1 million KIA. Think about it. Even if these numbers are real (and bear in mind that body counts were wildly inflated by the Pentagon), there is no way we had either the force nor the will to defeat North Vietnam. We could have leveled the country, but that would have only set them back another 10 or 20 years.
I’m for force feeding Krugman to all Dem. politicians and consultants in DC. Each column, 3 times each day when he’s published.
If oral feeding doesn’t work, then anal infusions might be needed.
daCascadian @ 11:57 pm (#183) – Still the wild, wild west around here I guess…
Perhaps, but if they were trying to kill it, I’m sure they could have used guns. I suspect the combination of tranqs and stun guns was too much for the poor creature’s heart.
If they didn’t have nets, lots of people, and a cage handy, it’s easy to see how the situation could have gotten out of control.
And, as I was implying before, if that bear had gotten loose and killed somebody, there’d have been hell to pay.
Cujo – Agreed. They have to keep citizens safe. I just think the repeated taser shooting is proof that tasers kill.
Large, vicious racoons have been roaming around the city streets for at least ten years now. I’ve come face to face with them outside my door late at night on more than one occasion. Very frightening, for sure. But when places like Issaquah, North Bend, etc. have been rapidly urbanized, the wild animals will leave their natural territories in search of newer digs. It just makes me sad how ignorant we humans are when it comes to sharing the land with the animals.
JimPortandOR @ 12:09 am (#188) – If oral feeding doesn’t work, then anal infusions might be needed.
Considering what’s come out of the Cunningham/Goss/Foggo cases lately, anal infusions might be appreciated in some quarters.
shoephone @ 12:13 am (#190) – If there are thriving animal populations anywhere nearby, I think you’ll see this sort of thing eventually. Most creatures’ natural tendency is to reproduce beyond what the local environment can sustain, and the choice for the excess population is then to either migrate or die.
Expanding human habitats are just making that tendency worse, I think.
And the local Parks Department is not set up for anything of this sort, though perhaps they will be in the future. As it stands now, Seattle Parks is too busy tearing up the natural grass playfields and replacing them with plastic and rubber carpeting all over the city. Organized sports teams – their priority customers. Natural grass rental costs about $28 per hour, plastic grass brings in almost $60 per hour.
Now I must to bed.
If you want to get really pissed off, check out McCain’s speechwriter’s pathetic attempt to diss Ms. Rohe on the Huffington Blog.
I do not expect for the right wing mongoloid idiots at the WSJ to have heard of Max Schactman, but he was a translator of Troksy, an old Troksyite and socialist worker organizer who sided with the war hawks about Viet Nam and looked at soviet-style communism as worse than capitalism fdr the working class.
oddly the new york times today has an article on how many iraq freeedom war vets are homeless and the streets already because they are getting little help from a defense dept that has just given millions in bogus bonuses to defense contractors who cannot even bring weapons programs in on budget.
JimPortandOR (#188) -
Are you suggesting that Krugman’s work is a suppository of great wisdom?
About appropriate force levels for battling insurgencies…
The easiest way to battle an insurgency is to not let one get started. Cute answer, eh?
The funny thing is, the best plan for post-war Iraq might have been the one the Neo-Cons were privately pushing — installing Ahmad Chalabi as the new Saddam of Iraq, with some thin veneer of “Democracy” laid on top of it to make Americans feel good about the result. But for that to work, a lot of the internal Iraqi government machinery had to be kept intact and governed ruthlessly, and the American forces would have to disappear VERY quickly so that Chalabi didn’t become the obvious focus of Iraqi nationalistic hatred.
That’s supposing there really was any way to win this thing, which I don’t think there was, short of using methods even more barbaric than those we have used to date.
The thing to remember about the Middle East is that it IS the Middle East. The region carries a huge amount of historical and cultural baggage, and part of that baggage is resistance to occupying infidels. You don’t have to be that old to remember the horrible example of Beirut, Lebanon in the 80’s. I was fully expecting post-war Iraq to be like Beirut. It hasn’t been exactly like it, but enough like it to make me feel smug about my pre-war skepticism.
obsessed at 194 – the McCain tool is pretty pathetic – a spluttering tisk-tisker.
Rohe v. wade (through the fever swamp)
shoephone @ 12:19 am (#193) – Amazing how mercenery city departments can be. I work with a community theatre that’s in a nearby city. The city parks department keeps raising the rent and providing less in the way of facilities. They’d rather rent the space out to karate classes – there’s more money in that these days.
Well, I must retire as well. Good night, all.
‘Should photo ops be good first impressions, or merely opportunistic?‘
;>)
db – Axis of Evil Knievel
G’Morning all! Suggested campaign platform:
Domestic policy: the Constitution
Foreign policy: Geneva Conventions
Gringo Randy over the Rio Grande
hey, egregious!
that’s nice and succinct
I just wish Jonathan Tasini’s campaign aagainst Hillary Clinton could gain as much traction as Lamont’s against Lieberman. Clinton is as much a pariah as Lieberman is, with equally odious politics. Tasini stands up for the same basic issues that Lamont does: against the war, for universal health care, for a fair trade policy that won’t sell out American workers. So why hasn’t the netroots taken up Tasini’s campaign with the same fervor and enthusiasm? Is Clinton considered untouchable? Or is the main difference that Lamont’s a millionaire, and Tasini is not? Do you have to be wealthy to be successful in American politics? looks like it.
darkblack’s 200:
The hell, ma! & puh-leeeez….
Somehow this post reminds me of what I’ve been reading in Crashing the Gate. Just had an interesting conversation with a friend abroad. We agreed that ideologies these days tend to be a front for the money makers; religion also gets abused that way. He believes the only hope is a return to Confucian values; i.e, pitching the concerns of the community before one’s self and finding honor in helping the needy, etc. I agree. I like to think netroots is about that: reminding our politicians of traditional morals and ethics and the good of the community over say, personal power.
The reactions from those in power to criticism have been waaay ugly. To my mind, traditional values would tell Dems that they need to help and speak out for the voiceless and the needy. So far, to my mind the congress critters are way too sluggish about the wiretapping business, thereby signaling it’s o.k. to tap the hell out of all of us Quakers and Confucians.
Sorry for the rant. But suddenly I’ve become disturbed about revelations that all overseas calls are tapped. Somehow it just really hit me now.
mui – there’s no rant control at FDL – let it rip.
pseudonymous in nc #130: you an economist? You hit the business model on the head.
Nah, it’s very basic: the capitalists who read the news pages of the WSJ (and subscribe to the online version) want honest reporting, because it costs them money if they’re fed bullshit. The opinion page is a sideshow: it has a long-term function (elect more GOPpers) but its value is to the wingnut Wurlitzer, not to its target demographic.
Look at the crowd at OpinionJournal, not least Taranto. Turd-throwers all: even John Fund, who should know better about what happens when you get turds thrown in your face.
Thanks punaise, After every smell of success, I feel a little maudlin. But true enough, at least one good friend from abroad is concerned. I tell him, the Seattle Raging Grannies would make good company, if it were true.
Punaise @ 203:
‘U-Need-A Mordida Grande’
;>)
Punaise #158
You’ve outdone yourself, again. Pigamist indeed! Laughter really is the best medicine – bless you.
John Fund? You mean John “I didn’t rape her, she’s crazy!” Fund? That one?
I elect to send every congress critter a copy of the Analects of Confucius, trnslated by Simon Ley, to remind our politicians that they should find honor and virtue in helping the needy, not in personal power.
Not that I am suggesting any of us are targets. I just think that the fact that some of our friends from abroad are telling us that certain words can trigger a tap is bad enough.
There was nothing stealthy about it. William F. Buckley and his compatriots were quite vocal about throwing their support behind Joementum, as they considered Weicker to be a RINO. Their catchphrase was something along the lines of “If you’re going to vote for a liberal Democrat, vote for the one who’s actually a Democrat” — which, come to think of it, could almost be Ned Lamont’s slogan this year.
Re: the letter sent by Hillary. That letter was completely scandalous. She should be ashamed of herself.
Cujo 64—Sometimes I wonder if statements like this one aren’t trial balloons: “If they recapture either the House or the Senate this fall, a legislative drive to withdraw from Iraq cannot be ruled out.”
I guess I don’t really think that, but hey, I can always hope.
Fitz!
Back from nine days of rehearsing and touring with an incredible group of musicians.
Mui,
Hillary is shameless. Krugman is a genius. I’m exhausted.
This from Adam Nagourney’s Sunday NYT piece:
“Rep. Thomas M. Reynolds, the chairman of the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee, said he was confident that his party would maintain control of the House, and pointed to Democrats who are vulnerable in Georgia and Illinois.”
We know the voting machine situation in Georgia has gone dysfunctional, but I hadn’t heard anything about how the GOP intends to create voting chaos in Illinois this coming November. Anyone here knowledgeable on Illinois?
Combine that with HRC’s calling all 20-somethings a bunch of slackers, and it appears that in 08 we will declare war on our children.
Warren Rudman predicted generational warfare in the early 90s if we didn’t get our fiscal house in order. Looks like it’s starting.
angie (184) — yeah, that bit certainly stank up the joint, reeked of Bab’s cheap stench.
Like any lawyer billable at $600+/- an hour is going to be sitting around all day waiting on the Geek Squad or a feline stool specimen.
Smelled more like Babs.
I thought a legislative drive to withdraw from Iraq ( to the Murtha line) was already here!
Surely that is a minimal demand from the froots?
And I would throw in some ambit claims as well – just in case any ‘ Paris peace talks ‘ style negotiations with the DINO’s bog down and to honor ‘ Freak power in the Rockies’ style politics. ‘ Acid, amnesty and abortion’ come on!
1234 what are we fightin’ for?
Don’t ask me I don’t give a fuck
Next stop is Goatshit Iraq
“Re: the letter sent by Hillary. That letter was completely scandalous. She should be ashamed of herself.”
She should be ousted from office, for this and countless other offenses.
Maurice Carroll, “political analyst” and director of the Quinnipiac Institute, had this to day about Clinton (as quoted in the NYT in December 2005): “She has the left in her back pocket. She doesn’t have to worry about catering to them. She has to worry about attracting centrist Democrats, the mainstream of the party.”
Who is defining the “mainstream of the party”? Mainstream Democrats and indeed mainstream Americans do NOT share the positions staked out by the calculating and opportunistic Clinton and other politicians of her ilk.
Boot Hillary. Back Tasini.
Howie Kurtz, has a ‘chat’ at the WP at noon. Anyone want to join me in asking about his connection to the National REview?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01274.html
I don’t know about any of you, but I’m clipping this piece and mailing it to Adam Nagourney.
Eli @ 68 said:
Hopefully the netroots cash cow becomes a little more selective. It would be interesting to see what happens if we flatly refuse to stop giving money or time to the “company men” Howard Klein described.
Perhaps the best way the netroots can manipulate this is for us to contribute, not thru theDSCC, but thru ActBlue to the candidates. Ignore Schumer’s constant appeals for cash and donate en masse directly to Sherrod Brown, Ned LaMont, even Bob Casey (yeah, I know, but he WOULD be better than Santorum).
or maybe he is simply a Zionist. I don’t like thinking that, be he sure fits the mold…
Salter’s rant on huffpo was putrid. Talk about alienating even more young people with the “just shut up & listen to the wise ones” lecturing. How sublime thou art. I remember reading in a sunday paper mag insert McCain remarking (after he sucked up to bush) that his college age daughter asked him how she was going to explain that to her friends. Surviving a prison camp does not give anyone a free pass for the rest of his life.
The Rethugs are worried about the netroots too. Check out the post by the loser McCain’s aid who responded to the student from the New School on Huffpost. Then read the comments…WHACK! If they don’t think much about the netroots, WHY respond to a college students speech.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..21405.html
OfT: but the WSJ reporter for the Justice Dept. is on C-Span’s Washington Journal right now, talking about Rove and Plamegate…
WSJ reporter on C-SPAN talking about Plame case. Just mentioned truthout story!
When the WSJ and the rest of the MSM trots out this tired old story about how the Democratic Party was destroyed from the Left, how about if we remind them that Nixon STOLE the ‘72 Election with dirty tricks and media manipulation. Just as in 2004, the media collaborated with the incumbent war administration and created a huge fear of making a change during wartime, even though by then the public hated Vietnam and wanted out. All this was aided along with lots of dirty tricks. Muskie, a moderate who could have won, was discredited because he cried about a dirty trick supposedly. Remind anyone of the “Dean Scream?” Even McGovern, who was portrayed as both far left and weak, might well have been portrayed in much different terms by a more “objective” media–he was, after all, a genuine WW II hero. Bringing things back to the discussion here–I’d predict that the National Democratic Party will allow Lieberman to run as an Indy, and that Lieberman will win as an Indy by splitting the vote as outlined above. Then, if the Dems get serious about dealing with this criminal administration, Lieberman will go the way of the formerly Democratic senators from Alabama.
republican ass-wipe Lieberman and the rest of the Vichy Dems of the DLC can take their republican ass-licking approach and shove it up their asses.
.
195:”…right wing mongoloid idiots…”
This is very offensive language to people of Asian descent…If you are still here, you should apologize.
Great C-Span this morning. One caller says it is the CIA trying to bring down the Preznut. If Bushco came in this guys house and pooped on his coffee table, he’s blame it on the seasonings in Hillary’s covered dish.
I guess I don’t get it. Paul Krugman is on the editorial page. That’s a far cry from the front page. IMHO, until someone writes a front-page story about how Lieberman and others are DINOs and not really Democrats, and does an analysis explaining why — right there on the front page — I don’t think you can say the media has finally picked up that line to become our echo chamber. As much as I love Paul Krugman, not everybody reads him. Also, he’s been on our side all along.
Blogroots need one scalp to be taken seriously. We came close in Ohio and Texas, but if we take Joementum out the DSCC will change its tune.
195: “…right wing mongoloid idiots..”
On second thought, you need an even more heartfelt apology to sufferer’s of Down’s Syndrome who are neither mongols nor idiots.
Sufferers of Downs Syndrome are among the sweetest and endearing people I have encountered.
Let’s not talk about idiot’s until we gain some level of self-awareness.
re: CSpan ‘prez can classify/declassify at will.’
WSJ: “I guess that’s one of the perks of the job.”
snark
If NYT offers each columnist at $10 yearly, or say $25 (half price) for 3 columnists, lot of us would jump on it. I would take Krug, Herbert and may be Dowd or Kristoff at half price. NYT doesn’t realize that some of us would not give Brooks or Tierney a red cent or a even free hit. They don’t know how to package what they have.
Ticking off some truths hurtful to review :
WMD..Saddam told the truth, Bush lied.
Downing St memo, fixing “facts” around policy… to go to war,
“War with Iraq the very last recourse”….”Sharon is a man of peace”…”Bring em on”..”Mission Accomplished” “Shock and Awe” ..”Insurgency in last throes”…”Turning point”… “Making our own reality”…the constitution “is just a god damned piece of paper”…”need a court order to wiretap american citizens”…”fight them there so we don’t fight them here’…”fool me once, ……….” ad naseum
Plame. “CIA operative outing” .
Torture ban law, renditions, thrashed by signing statement..Hello McCain???
2500 military dead.
Freedom medals given to Tenant, Bremer, and Franks, major architects of the worst foreign policy blunder in USA history.
Wolfowitz promoted to president of the World Bank, key neocon enabler/cheerleader, doctrine creator of the worst blunder in USA history.
Wiretap of American citizens w/o FISA overview.
On and on and on…When do these Nurenburgh quality war crimes end???
Re: Beel / #234
I agree with most of your points. However, I’m not so sure that as an independent Joe would split the vote the way you think. Given the demographics of his base, he might just as well split the red vote and leave Ned the winner.
–MarkusQ
Great column, Jane.
The “blogosphere” has been frustrated in its ability to effect change in the electorate but Lamont is changing the face of politics.
This is going to be fun.
hizzhoner
This is already way EPU’d, but I’ve got to add my voice of congratulations for another great post/discussion and another great work by Krugman. He’s got to be one of the most credible pundits in the MSM. That guy seems to have an IQ > 150, but then so does George Will. The difference has been that Krugman typically hasn’t taken strong positions that are ultimately proved erroneous (I can’t think of one off the top of my head, and I’ve been reading his stuff forever).
Bravo! Encore!
Hopefully the netroots cash cow becomes a little more selective. It would be interesting to see what happens if we flatly refuse to stop giving money or time to the “company men” Howard Klein described.
Err…I’ve already done this, since the Alito cave-in. I removed myself from the donors to: NARAL, Emily’s List, the DSCC, and the DCCC (I know, the DCCC is not the same as the DSCC but the company “men” are the same regardless of house OR sex). I ONLY give to proper candidates (Hackett, Lamont, etc) and withhold money from EVERYONE else. I have made it a point to inform any Democratic political fundraisor who calls me that I do NOT give money to the party anymore and why…and that they are to never again call me, I’ll call them when they earn such respect.
Am I alone here? Has everyone else sold out their values and the common true good for perceived political expedience? Is everyone else simply holding their nose in the hopes of winning with company men and thinking that you will be able to “correct” the bastards to the correct path post-election? IT WONT WORK! The INSTANT a senator (in particularly, given their long terms) gets re-elected, they will dump you like a bag of shit. They will feel free to do what they’ve always done because it yet again got them elected.
Tell me I’m not alone in this.
“…not speaking up against a left that was demanding retreat and sneering at our war heroes.”
If by war ‘heroes’ they’re referring to the President and his stunt on that aircraft carrier, I will continue to sneer. But the one thing I see nothing of (or would tolerate) is people on the ‘left’ saying anything negative about the troops. If anything, it’s the lefties who have shown greater concern for our troops and their safety.
It’s just unfortunate that this triangulation is bourne from a democrat vs democrat situation. Which seems to be a safer issue for the MSM to cover in this manner, rather than democrat vs republican issue/situation where a domestic or foreign policy issue is the debate, say like the NSA scandal, social security, Katrina (a year after) or a litany of other issues that are crippling the country.
If all goes well, Krugman will have a position in the Democratic White House in the very near future. Say, in 2008.
I love Krugman and he has been one of the few people in the big press to see what Bush was way before almost anyone else.
Now if only I didn’t have to pay to read him……….
Late, I know, but Krugman is one of the few men who makes me want to tear off my clothes, fling myself at him and scream, “Shag me, shag me!”
Not that I would ever do anything that gauche. But I certainly think it about him. Funny, I usually can’t abide Pisces men!
There are so many great posts, links and lol puns here. Thanks for giving me such a great morning.
Do you think states rights as an issue would attract voters? This is part of a rant I wrote yesterday.
Currently, marriages are part of the states rights, reserved to each state, to determine. This is, therefore another unprecedented assault on the rights of a state to determine and enforce its own laws. The Terri Schiavo case attempted to transfer end of life decisions from the realm of the family, to congress. The medical marijuana law passed by several states, is decreed by this congress to be illegal. The right to end ones own life, under carefully considered circumstances, has been attacked by this congress. The rights of medical doctors to prescribe adequate pain medication to their patients is infringed upon.
Originally, I thought, the republicans raising the marriage amendment was just a way of generating controversy to drown out any real reporting. Then I remembered that some states have community property laws and some don’t. Would a constitutional amendment give the U.S. congress the right to override the states and impose a single nationwide law? And determine
grounds for divorce, etc.?
I know Joe L. is currently a senator, but how sad that he gets such a disproportionately large amount of media attention compared with the more recent VP prospect, John Edwards.