
First, an update on my Laura Flanders Show appearance this evening on Air America Radio. It looks like Laura’s guests will include me, Bruce Shapiro from The Nation, and Greg Palast. Wow. I’m scheduled to be on around 8 pm ET, just FYI, for those who asked me for a confirmation update.
Aside from the Armitage speculation and other doings in the ongoing Fitzgerald investigation, there were some more salvos fired in the back and forth between Team Libby and Team Fitz.
The interesting question for me in the latest Team Libby filing (from May 19, 2006) is whether they are trying to bolster the "Scooter Libby’s memory is like swiss cheese" defense strategy — or whether they are trying to force Dick Cheney’s hand one way or the other by saying that Libby does not recall ever seeing the Cheney handwriting on the Wilson article.
This potentially would require Fitzgerald to call Cheney to the stand or not use the article as evidence — or find some other means to verify the handwriting. Or find some other witness that challenges Scooter’s memory by showing that, indeed, s/he participated in meetings with Dick and/or others wherein s/he clearly knew that this was Cheney’s handwriting, etc., etc.
But in my experience, putting that sort of pressure on someone as notoriously fond of playing hardball as Dick Cheney…well, it isn’t always the smartest of moves. Mayhap it was only meant to send a signal to pals in the WH that Team Libby is getting down to the wire on defense maneuvers — or maybe Scooter and company were telling the honest truth that he doesn’t recall seeing the Cheney notes on the Wilson article. But whatever the reasoning, the latest filings in the Libby case sure do stir the already swirling pot, don’t they?
Two media outlets have coverage on the latest Libby filing: NBC News and the WaPo. What I find most interesting about these two articles is that neither reporter or news outlet noted that there was any filing wahtsoever from Fitzgerald — only from Team Libby — despite the fact that both legal filings were served on the same day — May19th, 2006 and would, presumably, have shown up in the court docketing system for perusal since reader Momaloney found them — both — and sent them — both — to me via e-mail. (And a huge thank you to Momaloney for doing so!)
Is it me, or is the Babs Comstock Journalism-by-Proxy Fax Tip-line alive and well?
As NBC notes, Team Libby argues that Scooter’s prior G/J testimony was that he had not seen the Wilson article with Cheney’s handwritten annotations/questions until the FBI showed it to him during their investigation. Team Libby makes a pointed reference to both times that Libby testified to the grand jury that there was specification that he said he did not recall having seen the article until the FBI showed it to him.
Which begs the question, were there others in a meeting with Dick Cheney or with Scooter Libby who were directly shown the article with its Cheney notes — either by Dick himself or by Scooter explaining the notes as Dick’s proxy? Does Fitzgerald have their testimony before the Grand Jury — and is Scooter aware of it or fishing to see what Fitz has on this? And will there be testimony as such and, if so, how much does Team Libby know about this as a possibility — and how much does Team Fitz have on this above and beyond any grand jury testimony? You know, things like phone records, notes, etc.?
The whole revelation of the Cheney handwriting on the Wilson article was a huge neon sign last week, but I have to wonder if this isn’t why Team Libby started a bit of a drumbeat about Cathie Martin a few filings back. (Did Cathie, Dick and Scooter talk about this on their plane ride? Was this faxed/communicated to Ari Fleischer on Air Force 1 as talking points? And boy, doesn’t THAT raise some big questions, if so…) And about Marc Grossman as well — that whole credibility issue with Grossman would be crucial if it comes down to a "who do you believe, Marc or Scooter" defense.
And is the Libby defense coming down to a "which Cheney loyalist should you believe and why?" — because, if so, that is one helluva risk. Especially when you flirt with dragging in Cheney himself for testimony as part of your "force the prosecutor’s hand" strategy.
Ultimately, the discovery issues that are being argued will be resolved by the judge, looking at whether the documents or other pieces of evidence requested meet the standard of being material to the case as well as being exculpatory (making it look like Libby might be innocent or calling guilt into question — to shorthand that a whole lot). This, I think, is going to be a difficult argument for Libby’s attorneys to make successfully, as has been demonstrated in Judge Walton’s repeated warnings to them that he will not allow them to re-try the rationale for war in Iraq or other issues outside the scope of Libby’s indictment charges — five federal felony counts of perjury (twice), false statements (twice) and obstruction of justice.
As Fitzgerald’s team makes abundantly clear in their filing, Team Libby appears to be seeking a lot of this material, simply put in Team Fitz’ own words, to "make clear that he intends to use the documents he seeks for impeachment, or to re-focus the jury’s attention on the conduct of others, rather than his [Libby's] own." That might be awfully helpful in terms of Team Libby’s smokescreen construction project — but it is not a reason to hand them a big pile of discovery that would likely qualify, if anything, as Jencks material at best.
Judge Walton has to make a call on all of this. And to do so, he will likely have to take a peek at some of it in camera and then make a determination as to materiality and relevance and exculpatory nature and such, but I think his statements during the last hearing show which way he tends to lean when there is a close call on potentially immaterial evidence. And that is bad news for Team Libby, no matter how much they may try to argue otherwise in public.
Oh, and Team Libby is using their "misrecollected in good faith" description of Scooter lying to the grand jury and the FBI again, in the context of Libby not having the specific intent to state false information.
Libby’s attorneys argue that their only reason to show what their client and other witnesses were doing in June and July of 2003 in response to Wilson’s charges is for a jury to “understand that Mr. Libby may have been confused or may have misrecollected facts in good faith, and did not act with a specific intent to give false testimony.” They write that only with such context will the jury appreciate that “Mr. Libby did not need to attack Mr. Wilson personally to rebut his allegations, because the administration had clear factual support for its position that Mr. Wilson’s criticisms were wrong.”
That they bring up Libby’s "misrecollected facts" in the context of essentially calling Joe Wilson the "liar" in all of this — especially given the nature of the charges for which Mr. Libby was indicted — would be amusing, if it didn’t carry with it such a whiff of sweaty palms.
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Fitz! Roots! WE, THE PEOPLE!
What happened to your servers? It’s been as slow to come as Fitzmas, or down altogether.
Fitz!
FROOTZ ! ! !
Fitz, er Bowie!
I like “FROOTZ!” Good one, ilson.
Update on the bizzare Leopold/Luskin/Rove saga from his editor:
http://forum.truthout.org/blog/
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGH!!!
we be expeeriencing some server eeshoos!
Rich Armitage is not an easy figure to hide or sneak in anywhere– he’s a big bodybuilder and hulking guy…just sayin’. The tall man and the hulk– an odd couple, eh?
As a temporary fix we may be exeriencing a time delay between posting a comment and seeing it on the site so please don’t keep re-posting them if you don’t see them immediately.
It’s only a temporary fix.
FROOTZ! is actually a covert part of the homosexual agenda — it’s pronounced “fruits” . . .
Jencks material.
Could you enlighten me here? Sounds like a lawyering term.Or someone on the defense I missed.
I had to read the paragraph that starts “As Fitzgerald’s team makes abundantly clear in their filing . . .” twice. My first, fast reading of Fitz saying, “Libby wants this stuff for impeachment” entered my head as a giant question mark. “Libby’s gonna turn this over to the House Judiciary Committee? Impeachment of whom? Wow, so much for loyalty!” Then I realized that Fitz meant the impeachment of various witnesses, turning the attention of the jury away from his own (alleged) perjury.
It pays to remember: there’s impeachment, and there’s Impeachment.
Not that there’s any wishful thinking going on out here or anything . . .
greg palast — you’ll be in good company
Nice wrap up redd, thanks…can’t have too much analysis on ths issue.
Does anyone know what happened to James Wolcott’s blog site? It seems to be missing…a peaceful sunday but maybe the calm before the storm what with the SM lookin’ so wierd.
Bustedknuckles, I gotta run now. But before I go, I’d like to send you a virtual pipe wrench. A big one. Could you please give those misbehaving servers a virtual whack for me? You’re a pro, you’ll know just where and how hard.
Thanks, that’ll fix ‘em! :-)
It will be good to hear your dulcet tones tonight, Christy. Good for you and I am very glad you’ll be sharing the “stage” with the likes of Laura Flanders and Greg Palast and Bruce Shapiro– good folks indeed!
I’m sure this has been asked a gazillion times, but can someone explain to me what “in camera” means exactly?
#16
Believe me, I’d love to.It’s the ladies who are the ones who’d probably like to give something a good whack.Things happen.All I can do on this end is scream obscenities at my monitor.I’m good at that too. *g*
So far, none of the truthout.org links here or in the previous thread are working. Was the story withdrawn?
Will be listening tonight. :)
Does it even matter if Libby ever saw that actual piece of paper with Cheney’s notes? Fitz is simply demonstrating Cheney’s frame of mind, which explains why Libby would have a motive to lie. That’s what the evidence is for, it seems.
Thanks Redd,
If you put yourself in Fitzy’s place, what are the pros and cons of calling Cheney as a witness?
In Camera = In Chambers
Truthout sticks to the sealed indictment story. Speculates that nothing has been made public yet cause Rover is turning state’s evidence. Don’t think Truthout has any lawyers on it’s staff.
The truthout server seems to be down. Here’s the first bit of the article, posted from DU:
Just as the servers were going down a couple of hours ago, I was trying to post a comment about a detailed post at Needlenose I wrote this morning, breaking down the arguments for and against Armitage as a source for Novak — and why Team Libby might be motivated to falsely accuse Armitage on this subject.
The short version: Don’t believe the hype. Although it’s very likely that Armitage was Woodward’s source, IMO, the first senior administration official to talk to Novak was Ari Fleischer (right after Scooter Libby told him what to say).
Hopefully, mentioning this won’t crash the servers again…
Thank you Mike.
Thanks, Rob!
Chimpy the Cheney puppet will issue a pardon to Scooter sometime during the Xmas season this year. After the election, but before anything important happens.
That’s my prediction.
Sigh.
Thanks, Christy – great wrapup as always.
Terre, in camera refers to the judge viewing materials privately rather than in open session, so that the defense, in this case, doesn’t know what they are. Which protects stuff Fitz might be using in his ongoing investigation, if the judge decides it’s not material to Libby’s defense.
Bustedknuckles, Christy talked about Jencks material a few Libby posts ago – it refers to a court case that sets a precedent about, IIRC, impeachment (small “i”) material, in this case, stuff Libby might use to attack the credibility of those testifying against him. Any of our legal types here, please correct anything I’ve gotten wrong.
Sherry
I agree that there will be pardons all around in the end- but I suspect that Chimpy McClusterfuck would prefer to do them all at once- not piecemeal. That means that Scoots may be required to further delay the trial to avoid ever having a witness called.
Interesting? The servers at truthout town hall are out now too. Hmmm. Should I get out my tin foil hat?
@ilson @ 11 – Did you just publicly disclose homosexually classified materials? I hear that you can get in a lot of trouble for that, resulting in the appointment of a Very special prosecutor – unless the agenda was secretly declassified by Ken Mehlman.
Loose lips sink ships . . .
Angie @ 9, hide Armitage as someone’s security man. Most of those security types are familiar with the inside of a gym, and does anyone really look closely at the bodyguards?
I forget who said it first, but I’m leaning towards whoever suggested “truthyout.org” as the new site name. They’re definitely on shaky ground.
Thanks Leslie.
I love FDL AND Americablog.
New court documents in the Scooter Libby case
by John in DC – 5/20/2006 02:24:00 AM
I’m not sure if these are or aren’t of journalistic interest, I’m just rather amazed that source for them is the Patrick Fitzgerald blog, a spoof blog. Seems the spoof isn’t so spoofy after all.
These are the two latest briefs, back and forth, dated yesterday with regards to Libby trying to compel evidence from a variety of high profile witnesses. Check ‘em out and perhaps someone wiser than me can figure out if there are any gems hidden in here. (These are pdf files.)
Fitzgerald’s brief [link]
Libby’s brief [link]
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..libby.html
Here is my favoriter comment: “Sad day in media when spoof blogs beat the MSM in posting information on the most important court cases…”
Fletch | 05.20.06 – 2:37 am | #
Patton Boggs has over 200 attorneys and Lord only knows how many support staff. And Jason Leopold was the only reporter to learn about the “lockdown” on the 4th floor. I would venture a guess that almost every major journalist who lives in DC knows someone who works at Patton Boggs but they all kept their lips sealed.
Not buying that this kind of thing could go down under the radar. I believe Fitz will indict Rove but I don’t believe Leopold.
Franco: please! get out your tin foil hat…looking for mine after the last BBQ…I’m late here as usual but it sounds like several sites are unreachable…anybody on Wolcott?
Let’s suppose that Fitzy has lots of juice on Cheney. Let’s suppose that the long term plan is to indict him. If that’s the case, would he want to name his as a witness for the Scoots trial? What are the upsides and down sides?
Wolcott won’t load for me either. I get the main truthout page w/no problem, but also get the server error if I try to load the town hall page.
Lol, I can’t begin to guess when Rover get’s his ratfucking,but I just got a phone call from the g/f asking if we were expecting company that she was not aware of,I said no. She then asked me why there was all this booze in the freezer?Lmao, I had to explain to her what a Fitzgerald’s Hammer of Justice was and why.She is most definitely not impressed.I told her not to worry about it. It’s a little something for me.
rwcole, fwiw, Christy’s said in the past that prosecutors usually try not to call as a witness anyone they want to indict later. So going w/your hypothetical, I would guess Fitz would avoid calling Cheney as a witness if possible.
Can someone enlighten me as to how Fitzgerald got the Cheney-annotated Wilson column, if we even know? I have a hard time believing Cheney would have turned over anything, and since Libby’s team is trying to keep it out of evidence, it would make no sense that they turned it over.
I can understand Libby holding to his “I don’t remember seeing it” line, but I’m guessing Fitzgerald has someone who was there when the notes were taken – perhaps in a strategy meeting at which Libby was present – and did see the annotations, and can connect the dots between Cheney, the column and Libby.
But what do I really know? This is fast approaching the Colonel-Mustard-in-the-drawing-room-with-the-candlestick territory. :-)
If Team Libby’s filings continue to consist of attempts to argue whether Wilson was right or wrong, they are going to continue to lose every time. And I have to think that Judge Walton is going to get – if he is not already – awfully tired of repeating to Team Libby that this is not about the veracity of Wilson’s story, or how we ended up in Iraq, and that neither one has even a shred of relevance to whether Libby lied and obstructed an investigation.
This all may be moot…
Bad news…I may be out of a blog or job – Clarice Feldman has threatened to dooce me. :(
“Seixon, we are drafting a letter to the DoJ’s Office of Professional Responsibility noting Fitz’ violation of ethical standards ans seeking an investigation. When it’s done we will circulate it and ask people to sign and send it in. Please pop into JOM. If you have any contribution to make to the draft, it would be appreciated.” Posted by: clarice at May 20, 2006 08:21 PM
…Developing
Huffington has a pot boiler up from Kevin Phillips speculating on how a Bush resignation would be handled:
George W. Bush’s job approval just hit 29% in one national poll, and the incredible shrinking presidency keeps making new lows. In some Northern states, the man’s job numbers are down in the teens.
Two months ago, it was suggested in this space that the prospect of having a lame-brain lame duck in the White House for nearly three more years suggested that serious consideration be given to possibilities whereby he might be replaced.
This has taken on even greater gravity in the last few days because of the rumors swirling about the imminence of the special prosecutor indicting White House political chief Karl Rove for perjury related to the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame.
Were such an indictment to come, Bush might be hard-pressed to survive, and with the same scandal lapping at the shoes of Vice President Dick Cheney, it’s likely that any retirement-cum-resignation would have to be a double one. Democrats might be secretly thrilled by the possibility of having a crippled, muddied President Cheney for two years, but such a succession would never fly with the public.
I realize that this is still pure speculation, by legal yardsticks entirely premature. However, the succession aspect is extraordinary. Under the Constitution, the resignation of Bush and Cheney would hand the presidency to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, at present Dennis Hastert, a former high school wrestling coach, well liked but manifestly less than qualified for promotion. Wise Republicans, however, would be aware of a critical anomaly: the person elected as Speaker of the House does not, as a matter of law, have to be a Member of the House. If Bush and Cheney were obliged to resign this summer, the House GOP could elect as Speaker a plausible interim president and have the presidency devolve on him. Someone like Indiana Senator Richard Lugar, the respected Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, comes to mind.
On the other hand, were Cheney at least as soiled as Bush, he could resign first and Bush could name some Lugar-like figure (who would clearly be confirmed) as vice-president in place of Cheney. Then if Bush resigned, an ethically acceptable Republican successor would be in place before any November Democratic takeover of Congress.
For such things to unfold against the backdrop of this year’s midterm Congressional elections would be little short of tumultuous. The notion that the next president would be chosen through or by Congress would dominate the autumn debate. It might ensure a Democratic landslide – but it might also give dispirited, Bush-weary Republicans a rallying point.
On top of which, two other contemporary circumstances – Bush’s 29% approval and the crumbling consumer confidence that has eroded the stock market indexes – suggest that economic developments between now and November could also increase the likelihood of a Democratic takeover of Congress. Come January, that would make California Democrat Nancy Pelosi the next House Speaker, and she would become the next president in the event of Bush and Cheney resigning or being forced out of office in 2007.
Still, the Democrats could easily replace Pelosi with a national figure in the same way that the Republicans could replace Hastert. They could even make former president Bill Clinton Speaker on a few days’ notice. Although he has already served two terms, the Constitutional prohibition against a president being elected to more than two terms would probably not apply to a former president taking the Oval Office by devolution in a line of succession.
Will it happen? Probably not. But over the last half century, only two prior presidents’ job ratings have dipped below 30% – Nixon before he resigned and Carter before he was defeated in the 1980 election. The replacement of George W. Bush, if necessary, stands to be a little more complicated.
OT, but here is a trick to find unfamiliar terms.
In Google, do the following:
Define: term (don’t forget the colon)
Example
define: in camera
It comes back with several definitions that help explain the term.
Hope this helps, Sofistic
How does one get to the Book Salon?
Anne, at this point we don’t know where Fitz got the Wilson article w/Cheney’s notes on it. There’s lots of speculation along the lines of what you said, but that’s all.
There will be a Book Salon post on the main page when the discussion starts – just go on in and join the conversation.
Ignorant — there will be a book salon thread posted shortly. And you get to the salon by entering discussion in that thread. HTH!
rwcole, interesting speculation; I hadn’t realized that anyone could be elected Speaker.
Leslie- Me either- I always enjoy Phillips- he’s like a vacuum cleaner for interesting tidbits.
I really don’t care right now weather pardons will happen or not. (I hope not)
The mutherf&&ckers have to be convicted first. The rest is a just a big distraction.
Colleen- Well- no- they don’t have to be convicted first. Bush could pardon the lot of em today if he wants to.
PJF 44 –
No problemo — sell the URL to whoever ran the Harriet Miers spoof blog, and all confusion will disappear . . .
Deep breaths…this WILL post…
Thanks sofistic,
Ya know, I normally do that for most everything else, but it seemed I’d get a quicker response here (aka L.a.z.y.). :o)
as this saga continues i am surprised at my own fascination with a process borne to an institutions – the judiciary – that is either corrupted or comprimised – or both
tho justice is on offer in this world – it does not come often thru tribunals
the great victories of the civil right movement are owed to the people working the streets, the halls & the churches
i am moving more & more to a position that tho some would like to see their fitzgerald a gregory peck or even a james stewart figure – he is much closer to the paradoxical subtleties of a robert mitchum
in the last instance i feel that the intersts of fitzgerald & of the criminal cheny-bush administration are the same
i feel my fascination with this process has come from a misbegotten belief in the narratives of redemption & correction
jason leoplold has only exacerbated the farce
rwcole – pardoned from what, just an indictment?
Marc Ash sure is putting his butt on the line for Leopold. Saying that “the 4th floor of Patton/Boggs was in lockdown” really doesn’t mean a whole lot to me. In fact, the entire “here’s what we know” teaser means nothing unless the sources are reliable and the Leopold story is factual. I wonder if Ash got all those particulars from Leopold before or after the story started to smell? What has me irked is that if this all blows up in Leopold’s and truthout’s face, it’s the blogs in general that lose. We know that the credible blogs have got the MSM on the run for about 90% of what’s going down in D.C. on a dialy basis. It’s that 10% of unsubstantiated crap that they can hang us on. It reminds me of the Dan Rather debacle on Bush’s National Guard AWOL story. If you’re gonna go out there with something big, make damn sure that every single piece fits into place and can withstand scrutiny. Otherwise, a good story (that may be true) ends up as fodder for the swiftboaters.
cbl – wanted to commend you for the hilarious take-off on “Anticipation” from previous thread, but the server went down as soon as I tried to post it. (So, naturally, I thought it was all my screw-up).
mfisk
They can be pardoned for any crimes that MIGHT have been committed in connection with the purported CIA leak scandal. It’s been done before- and by a Bush.
Just a reminder — please feel free to keep the conversation going in this thread. We’ll be reserving the book salon thread for the discussion of Before the Storm.
rwcole #54
Re pardons.
Oh. Bummer. But I mean we can’t let the idea of pardons distract us (Fitz).
If you read the latest filings the FBI showed the NY Times with Cheney’s notes to Libby in 2003. Karl and Dick are not good friends, and Karl is a backstabber from way back. You decide.
My current read is American Theocracy. Agreed that Phillips brings much info and insight, and the sorts of sidebar details that broaden my understanding of all things oil, politic and religious.
Leslie in CA says: “rwcole, interesting speculation; I hadn’t realized that anyone could be elected Speaker.”
May 21st, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Does anyone have a link to the House of Representatives’ rules?
The Constitution states in Article I, Section 2 that “The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other officers…” Wouldn’t it stand to reason that its Speaker and officers would have to be a member of the House of Representatives? I know – the clause in the Constitution from which I quoted didn’t go on to say “…from within its own ranks” or words to that effect.
So where do we turn to find out more?
Colleen—Yeah the indictments alone are enough to cause the PINO plenty of damage- and when he DOES pardon- that will cause further political bleeding.
I think this guy is done. Goopers are now actively retreating from him- claiming that he doesn’t represent conservative thought. After years of mindlessly endorsing him- they are now aware that the future of the conservative movement hangs in the balance.
It’s going to get uglier for these guys- MUCH uglier.
Old Sow#65
I also am reading American Theocracy. It is great. My family, however, is very tired of me reading parts of it to them over the phone. That would be a good book for the salon.
OT– oh my goodness– Jefferson is in a world of hurt… he sounds pretty corrupt from this.
>>>>>>>>>
ALEXANDRIA, Va. – A congressman under investigation for bribery was caught on videotape accepting $100,000 in $100 bills from an
FBI informant whose conversations with the lawmaker also were recorded, according to a court document released Sunday. Agents later found the cash hidden in his freezer.
At one audiotaped meeting, Rep. William Jefferson (news, bio, voting record), D-La., chuckles about writing in code to keep secret what the government contends was his corrupt role in getting his children a cut of a communications company’s deal for work in Africa.
As Jefferson and the informant passed notes about what percentage the lawmaker’s family might receive, the congressman “began laughing and said, ‘All these damn notes we’re writing to each other as if we’re talking, as if the FBI is watching,’” according to the affidavit.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..sman_probe
# 64 Patrick Fitzgerald
Could you please change your name? I find it very annoying. And I’m sure it’s confusing to new people.
Maybe just initials or something. Please?
The office of Speaker was created by the Constitution of the United States. The Speaker is elected by the House of Representatives, and is its highest-ranking officer. Although it is not a Constitutional requirement, as a practical matter the Speakership always belongs to the majority party, and is that party’s leader, outranking the House Majority Leader. Likewise, there is no Constitutional requirement that the Speaker even be an elected representative in the Congress.
(wikipedia)
remembereringgiap 58 —
Howdy, and welcome to the best Salon on the web, since Billmon booted the commenters out of the Whiskey Bar. Not quite as free form bar-room brawl, but quite nice nonetheless.
Talkleft just now talked to Rove’s spokesman. He again denies every detail:
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014903.html
rwcole
outranking the house minority leader?
Jane @ 62 – Is the Book Club thread running late, or did you forget to open the comments?
mfisk- yep- and the majority leader as well.
Speaking of which, Billmon’s posts from Egypt are pretty interesting. I was in Sharm-el-Sheik in the late 70’s when it was part of Israel. The coral was pretty outstanding, and the drive down through the Negev in February with the flowers in bloom amazing. Arriving at the great rift was an unexpected and mind expanding experience.
Book Club thread is up, Peterr.
I have only one question: How would a president pardon anyone if he is designated as an unindicted co-conspirator?
Regards
71 rwcole says:
May 21st, 2006 at 2:00 pm
I suppose that the Constitution should have been more explicit about a point that its framers thought was implied. If the Speaker of the House or other officers of the House aren’t members of Congress, how, for example, can they vote on legislation under consideration by the House?
Gang — just a reminder, the book club discussion is upthread. And we have the fantastic Rick Perlstein with us for discussion of his book “Before the Storm.” An amazing treat for everyone. :)
Stephen Pitt 79 –
The power of Presidential Pardon is absolute — he can pardon anyone for anything. But can he pardon himself from criminal liability after he leaves office? I suspect we will find out . . .
Pardons are almost absolute, except in cases of impeachment:
angie @69, you can stick a fork in William Jefferson and turn him over, he’s done. I wish I could find the link (pretty sure it was a local, maybe on the NOLA Times Picayune site), I read a good run-down on his entire family … and it was a run-down, as in “wheels on the bus go round-and-round”. And FWIW, keeping cash in the freezer is becoming something of a tradition among the corrupt down here.
Hmmm. Okay, my take so far:
Libby: It just looks worse and worse for him every day. More decisions from Walton are coming soon, and it’s just not going to get any better for Libby. His orders are obviously to sit tight. But the longer it goes on, the chances that “Scooter who?” will get a pardon get lower and lower.
Rove: The truthout story reeks of a Rovian plant. Rove’s high-profile appearances go along with that. Now right-wingers are saying that Rove will never be indicted. It all looks like a Rove head-fake to me. Rove is in a precarious spot. His grip on power hinges on making right-wingers think that he’s in the clear. The more bizarre stories that appear in left-wing media outlets, the better off he is. I think he’s behind it all, but his audience isn’t us, it’s the true-believers. (Alternative theory: Fitz really did spend some time at Patton Boggs negotiating a plea agreement, but it wasn’t for Rove. It was for Luskin, who put his neck on the chopping block to try to protect Rove. Not a good idea.)
Armitage: His name sort of popped up out of the blue, didn’t it? The spin and the counter-spin came pretty quickly, too. The same thing happened a while back with Powell. My take is that the White House is desperate to “widen” the scandal to include State, and it hasn’t been working. I think the boys at State co-operated since Day 1, and Fitz considers them the good guys.
Corrupt is corrupt,Clean the MF’ers out.
found the link re: William Jefferson (btw, yes, he’s my rep), it’s a local blogger called dangerblond, she’s pretty good. Never tried to post a link here before, so here goes, hope it works …
http://dangerblond.org/blog/?p=218
AirportCat says: “Never tried to post a link here before, so here goes, hope it works …”
May 21st, 2006 at 2:35 pm
The link you posted works.
Thanks for the answers, 82 & 83. I guess it would be nice for the Republican Congress to sprout a conscience and do the right thing before the fall elections.
Great analysis, Christy, as always.
Re: JL’s TruthOut story — I recall that Chris Matthews claimed to have a big Plamegate story coming on the Friday that Truthout first put its story out there. Is that just a coincidence or is there some probability that a bunch of reporters got played? Perhaps, though, something big DID happen but got tabled for some as yet unknown reason.
suzanne — yep, although the speculation at the time was that Matthews (and MSNBC reporters) may have just known that the G/J COULD meet (like it could every Wednesday and Friday, as The Note always reports). But we just can’t know, since we don’t know Matthews’ sources (or really, likely, Shuster’s sources, since he’s the reporter that’s been primarily on this trail) or Jason Leopold’s sources either. Which is why my policy has been, since I can’t get confirmation one way or the other from any of my usual sources, I’m waiting to see what happens along with everyone else. *g* (And in the meantime, reading the legal doc and media tea leaves when we get ‘em.)
We have to remember after the Dan Rather/Nat Guard mess. MSM isn’t going to announce anything as big as a Rove indictment without iron clad proof.
They will happy to play it safe and wait for the official word on any indictments.
Dear Christie,
I hope I will be awake here in Greece to catch you tonight on the Flanders show. If not, please give us a heads up on the site as to when it might be re-broadcast.
Thank you so much for the analysis you, Jane, your collaborators, and your commenters provide.
On this post, thank you for so much insight into our legal system and how it works or should do, but then that is why I am here every day–glad you are.
New Kos Diary:
Did Gonzales Kill Fitz’s Rove Indictments?
by JiggyFlunknut
Sun May 21, 2006 at 03:40:51 PM PDT
Last Friday, Judge Reggie Walton, the presiding judge in the Libby trial, deliberated over a case titled “SEALED v. SEALED.” There is growing speculation that sealed v. sealed is Fitzgerald v. Gonzales’ Deputy, Paul McNulty (Fitzgerald’s direct superior).
Any lawyerin’ types here know whether this is procedurally plausible and documentable? Or is it more likely to be another black op from Segretti redux?
Quick Watson, the needle (or say it ain’t so).
A dkos diarist says last wk Judge Walton took a case Sealed Vs Sealed. The diary speculates
that this was Gonzales (actually deputy AG McNulty, Comey’s replacement) vs Fitz and Gonzales and MCNulty want the judge to quash Fitz’s Rove indictment. Nothing concrete, just an idle speculation, but what else could be
Sealed Vs Sealed on Walton’s docket?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/21/184052/881
ecoast,
my intuition leads towards this being another thrust of the rat pelvis, given the procedural implausibilities of “sealed indictments” flying around of late. but on the other hand, i could be totally wrong.
Let’s not forget that John Hannah and David Wurmser have cooperated with Fitzgerald’s investigation.
Hannah is a neocon and he was Cheney’s principal deputy national security adviser in July, 2003. He pled guilty last year to passing classified information to two members of AIPAC who now are charged with passing the information on to Israeli agents. Hannah was sentenced to 12 years in prison and, I imagine, is desperate to earn a reduction in his sentence. What better way than to tell all that he knows about Plamegate.
Wurmser also is a neocon. In 1996, he and his wife co-authored A Clean Break, a radical memo for incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu advocating the plan that our administration is now carrying out in the Middle East: war and regime change in Iraq, Iran, and Syria. Wurmser co-founded the Office of Special Plans at the Pentagon that cherry-picked the so called “intelligence” that served as our reasons for invading Iraq. Wurmser also worked for Bolton at the State Department and was working for Cheney as an assistant on national security in July, 2003.
Hannah and Wurmser are believed to have worked with Libby and know all of the details about Plame’s outing. Both reportedly have been cooperating with Fitzgerald’s investigation. If Armitage also is cooperating, it’s difficult to imagine that there is anything about Plamegate that Fitzgerald doesn’t know.
We shouldn’t forget Marc Grossman’s memo about Wilson and Plame. Powell took it with him on the trip to Africa on AF-1 with Bush and Rice from July 7-12. The memo was available to anyone to read with “an inquiring mind.” It has been suggested that Ari Fleischer, who was on that trip, talked to Cheney and Libby about Wilson and Plame. Perhaps, they compared notes, although Grossman faxed the memo to Cheney’s office on June 10th.
I believe that Rove is desperately trying to plea bargain his way out of hell. His problem, however, is that Fitzgerald doesn’t need his assistance to nail Cheney. Fitz is after Bush, but Rove doesn’t want to give him up. Therefore, they are at an impasse. Fitz is letting the pressure build but sooner or later he will give Rove a deadline. Rumor has it that Fitz will “make up his mind by the end of the month,” which means Rove has that long to agree to give up Bush, or he’ll face a far more unpleasant future.
I suspect Libby’s case is not where the real action is happening.
By the way, my theory is a possible explanation for no Rove indictment last week. Rove still is trying to get a better deal than Fitz is willing to offer. Hang on to your hats, folks. It ain’t going to be much longer.
After following the comments in dailykos, I withdraw my #95. Sealed vs sealed is just a rumor.
Reasons:
1. A dkos commenter checked DC court dockets for 06 on court website and there was no Sealed vs Sealed.
2. Gonzo (his deputy) can’t stop Fitz’s indictments; the only to stop Fitz is to fire him.
3. Team Libby did this trick several wks ago filing a motion that Fitz had no authority to indict Libby. Judge Walton quickly disagreed.
Sorry for the mild panic. A glass of chardonay
brought me to my senses and to cool head.
Mason,
I do hope you are right. I’ve had a bottle of Veuve Cliquot chilling just for the occasion. If Bush and/or Cheney are ever indicted, then I am buying a case of the stuff!!
ecoast ~ chardonnay. quite so — a great remedy. If you can get it, try MacMurray pinot gris. Great stuff.
[Is anyone seeing a pattern here? :)]
i agree with colleenmiltarymom at 70.
spoofing those we would disparage or satirize, like a supreme court nominee or the first twins or tom delay, is one thing.
spoofing an honest to goodness avenging angel, not so cool.
really.
if you’re going to try on Superman’s costume, folks expect leaping tall buildings in a single bound. This is one reason adults don’t play dress up in authenic fire fighter’s gear during a fire.
ydj short: give up this particular pretense.
here, it is in extremely bad taste.
no offense intended.
sorry but we revere him,
knuckledragger (#94):
I just bailed out of that Daily Kos Thread after getting into it with Armondo. I don’t believe Fitz can be fired by Abu Gonzales and provided links to what my rationale was.
But hey, I could be wrong–but what pissed me off was being told that I was wrong before he read what I linked.
Christy: What are your thoughts on this?
another possibility: well-intentioned hypervigilance, etc. etc.
we’ll keep our powder dry and our vc corked, for now…
Looks like the Komodo Dragon from the nation just blasted Jason and his reporting. Laura should have had Jason there to respond LIVE. I think she realized it when Bruce Shapiro did his rant. I always thought he was a typical “Dino” writer and he proved it tonight.
OT
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/21/184052/881
Did Gonzales Kill Fitz’s Rove Indictments?
And…
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmp…..0521100821
Top US conservative calls for independent movement
Christie, thanks and good luck tonight. I too don’t know what to think about the whole Truthout story, nay or aye. But I do think that the JL story, at the very least, including its timing, may serve to inform why Hardball set the whole day aside for a Plamegate story, only to shoot blanks. They must have heard something too, but didn’t want to (in the words of Truthout editor) “get too far ahead of the story.”
I’ll have to check to make certain but I don’t believe anyone at the Justice Department, including Fitz himself, has the authority to dismiss an indictment. The grand jury makes the accusation in the form of an indictment. When it has determined that probable cause supports the charge, or charges in the indictment and the foreperson signs off, it’s official.
The indictment can be superseded by another indictment, but that requires another vote by the grand jury.
I don’t mean to suggest that the prosecutor doesn’t have a lot to say, of course. The prosecutor drafts the indictment and presents the witnesses. Most of the time the grand jury is little more than a rubber stamp for whatever the prosecutor is attempting to do. Nevertheless, I don’t believe that the story circulating at Kos is consistent with what the law permits.
Guess I’ll have to delay opening my Boonies flavor of the day.
Okay, listen up.
Rule 48(a) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure authorizes a federal prosecutor, or the Attorney General to move to dismiss an indictment. The judge has the authority to grant, or deny the motion. However, the rule does not apply when the indictment under consideration is the first formal act of the prosecution. U.S. v. Gaddis, 418 F.Supp. 869 (W.D. Okla. 1976). The purpose of the rule is to protect a defendant from government harrassment by charging, dismissing, and recharging the defendant before a jury is sworn in order to gain a tactical advantage. Woodring v. U.S., 311 F.2d 417 (8th Cir. 1963). Finally, the motion must have been filed in good faith.
This was admittedly a very quick research job, but it’s all that I presently have the time to do. I provided the rule and some cases that interpret it in case someone else has some time this evening to advance the ball.
Bottom Line: I don’t think Gonzales could satisfy the requirements of this rule. Of course, he might have advanced his ridiculous unitary theory of the executive as authority to do anything, but I doubt that the judge would have agreed with him and the judge is supposed to keep the public interest in mind too.
Thanks, Mason!
The landscape is gasoline soaked. Should Gonzales dare intervene, it will be the end of the neocon coup and the beginning of the revolution. Too many people are informed to allow an illegit AG to get away with the second biggest crime of the century.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/grandpa_alberto.html
Alberto Gonzales is the most ill-qualified AG in recent history. He can only hide behind the unitary executive theory so long before he has to actually defend the theory in court. Probably the SC. Even so, he is NOT a great legal mind, and doesn’t have what it takes to pull it off. As a matter of fact, he is of the mediocre bent that so defines the Bush cronyism pattern. If he pushes the issue, eventually, he will get his ass handed to him on a plastic, dishwasher faded platter.
The sheriff look at the seeing eye dog
Then he looked at the 24 8×10 color glossy photo with the circles and the arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one telling how it would be used as evidence against me
and he looked at the seeing eye dog
he relised that it was a typical case of american blind justice and that the judge would not be looking at his 24 8×10 color glossy photo with the circles and the arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one telling how it would be used as evidence against me
Having reviewed Libby’s filings of this month, it appears that Libby is well aware that his various motions are going nowhere, but that the motions are designed to flush out Fitz’s hand. Such tactics are to be expected. Libby’s representation that he had never seen Cheney’s handwritten notes on the article discussed in the recent filings could very well be misleading. Just because you have not seen something does not mean that you are unaware of it. And the comments that the prosecutor may not be able to authenticate Cheney’s written comments without calling Cheney as a witness seems to be designed to flush out whether Fitz will be authenticating Cheney’s hand written comments via a third person, who saw Cheney write those comments (and perhaps discussed the comments with Cheney).
Why would Fitz need to prove that the notes were written by Cheney? Wouldn’t it be enough for another witness to say that they had a conversation with Libby or some kind of communication from Libby referring to the comments and that Libby referred to them as having been made by Cheney?
I realize that Libby says he hadn’t seen them until the FBI showed him – but if there is someone that says that Libby referred to them, wouldn’t that impeach Libby without having to authenticate Cheney’s handwriting?
Mason,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Judge Reggie Walton the one who sided with the government in the Sibel Edmons “State Secrets” issue?
Mason >”…The prosecutor drafts the indictment and presents the witnesses. Most of the time the grand jury is little more than a rubber stamp for whatever the prosecutor is attempting to do…”
This is EPU territory…
This has only been true primairly since the end of WWII while before that many grand juries offered “presentments” w/o the direction of a prosecutor (indictment)
both paths are constitutional (5th Amendment) :
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger…“
“…I have reason to know, as do many of you, that when the evidence on a controversial subject is fairly and calmly presented, the public recognizes it for what it is–an effort to illuminate rather than to agitate…” – Edward R. Murrow
In the indictment, Fitzgerald made it infinitely clear that it wasn’t his job to chase the truth, to figure out a path through the lies, misrepresentations, excuses, after-the-fact logic. He indicted Libby because Libby didn’t tell the “truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Like Mr. Rove, Libby told the best story he could muster on any given day to hide the fact that he, and plenty of others, were working full time to give Boss Cheney what he and the American Enterprise Institute/Project for the New American Century Cabal what they wanted – their American Tough Guy war. Their “spin machine” is still running unabated.
Those Aspens are still turning together…
In reply to dacascadian & post #115:
I’m not sure what you’re suggesting, but I only intended to say that prosecutors have enormous influence over the indictment process. I did not accuse and did not intend to accuse Fitzgerald of abusing the grand jury by ramming a phony case down their throats. Fitzgerald seems to be everything I would want a prosecutor to be: intelligent, honest, and fair. I apologize if I wasn’t clear.
In response to Ron Russell & post #114:
I’m not certain about Sibel Edmons, but I do recall that he stated three or four weeks ago that an underlying crime was committed in the Plame case, which is another reason for doubting that he would dismiss an indictment against Rove that was filed under seal and not yet public.
#97: Mason says:
May 21st, 2006 at 4:58 pm
Let’s not forget that John Hannah and David Wurmser have cooperated with Fitzgerald’s investigation.
Hannah is a neocon and he was Cheney’s principal deputy national security adviser in July, 2003. He pled guilty last year to passing classified information to two members of AIPAC who now are charged with passing the information on to Israeli agents. Hannah was sentenced to 12 years in prison and, I imagine, is desperate to earn a reduction in his sentence. What better way than to tell all that he knows about Plamegate.
Wrong! You’ve identified the wrong person. John Hannah was an aide to John Bolton and now works as a national security aide to Cheney.
LARRY FRANKLIN is the former Defense Department employee who was sentenced in January ‘06 to almost 13 years in prison in the AIPAC espionage affair.