
There have been some new filings, some news bits and pieces, and a whole lot of speculation and other pieces of information that need parsing from the continuing Fitzgerald investigation and the Libby prosecution. What better way to spend my Sunday morning that putting together a whole mish-mash update for everyone, I say.
The NYDaily News had an interesting bit of anonymously sourced reporting and speculation on Saturday that I wanted to hit first regarding Richard Armitage, former Deputy Secretary of State under Colin Powell. and potential witness in the Libby case as well as potential grand jury witness in the continuing investigation. Here’s what the NYDaily News had to say that I found intriguing:
Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage has emerged as a key witness in the CIA leak probe, the Daily News has learned. Armitage has been questioned several times, but is not expected to be indicted by the federal grand jury investigating who outed CIA spy Valerie Plame to journalists in 2003, sources said.
Armitage’s testimony could hurt Vice President Cheney’s indicted former chief aide Lewis (Scooter) Libby, or President Bush’s political guru, Karl Rove.
Two sources familiar with the case said Armitage, Rove and Libby all had contacts with the press about Plame. Unlike Rove and Libby, Armitage appears to have tried to dissuade reporters from writing about her.
Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald recently had to sneak Armitage into a Washington courthouse to get past reporters – a sign of his value in the case, according to one source.
Interesting — but it conflicts a bit with some of the previous information we have known about grand jury testimony — a piece of information Jane dug up earlier regarding Judge Hogan, who presides over the grand jury, and his ruling prohibiting "secret" grand jury witnesses:
Up until the summer of 2004 people who testifying before they grand jury were often brought up in some secret back elevator to avoid press scrutiny, and I suppose that’s how they wheeled in Novak’s coffin undetected. But around that time Judge Hogan ruled that everyone who appeared before the gj had to walk in the front door (and wouldn’t I love to to know the series of events leading up to that). Anyway, from that point on it pretty much guaranteed that if someone was having an official Fitz gj interlude, the press knew about it.
So either Judge Hogan has changed his mind, Fitz got a special dispensation with regard to Armitage’s testimony or the NYDailyNews source got that point wrong. Or maybe a different judge is presiding over the current grand jury and has decided that the freight elevator is okey dokey as a witness conduit for secret grand jury witnesses and the special prosecutor’s team again — in which case, game on baby, because there have been weeks of speculation on what might or might not be going on and THAT would raise a whole helluva lot of questions, wouldn’t it? (You’ll pardon me while I don’t hold my breath on getting specific answers to these questions from Russell Samborn, Fitz’s spokesperson or any court personnel — they don’t talk about grand jury proceedings because they are bound by law to keep them secret.)
I seriously doubt that the judge decided to go backwards in terms of "secret witnesses," but I throw it out there as a possiblity only because the NYDailyNews has raised it. We’ll try very hard to get an answer from someone on that — but as far as I have been able to find, there are no public orders issued from Judge Hogan or any other judge which contradict the previous order. But again, we’ll definitely look into it and get back to you.
Anyway, the NYDaily News article goes on to say that Armitage has been cooperating with Fitzgerald’s investigators and the legal team since the inception of the investigation — which, if true, could explain some of the inside track information that Fitz has gotten, given Armitage’s placement at the dividing line between Powell’s State Department and Wolfowitz, Rummy and Cheney’s neocon cabal and the WHIGs.
This article ties into some anonymously sourced bits from Steve Clemons earlier in the week on Armitage as well — and I point this article out because the discussion in the comments on anonymous sourcing and the CIA Leak investigation reporting is quite good, and I thought everyone would like a look, as much as for the Armitage speculation. This piece knocks down the earlier speculation from Bobby Inman that Steve reported about Armitage, by the way — and doesn’t it seem like it’s been a busy week for Armitage speculation, in general? Doesn’t it make you wonder why that is — who is floating this out? Why now? What is being signaled — and to whom? By whom?
I, for one, feel like I’m running around in circles trying to chase down all the "what ifs" involved in the Armitage speculation that has gone on thus far. Is he Woodward’s source? Maybe, maybe not, yes, definitely not, etc., etc.), and I’ve decided to just throw out there what we have at the moment and give everyone a chance to be on the same page while we wait for actual answers from Fitzgerald and his team — who, honestly, are the only folks at the moment other than Armitage — who isn’t talking on the record about any of this — who know exactly what Armitage is or is not doing in terms of cooperation and/or testimony and/or culpibility.
UPDATE: As John Casper points out in the comments, emptywheel has some Armitage discussion going on at Next Hurrah that is certainly worth reading and contemplating as well. I hadn’t seen it when I was writing this morning, and really appreciate the heads up.
Speaking of running around in circles, we’ve gotten a lot of questions about the Leopold articles from last week — and all the possibilities about Rove being indicted or not and what is going on now, etc., etc. Tim Grieve of Salon spoke with Mark Ash of Truthout.org about the reporting, and I wanted to post a link to the discussion for everyone. (H/T to Jeralyn for catching the interview.)
I talked a little bit about legal questions that I had on this in comments the other day, but I wanted to reiterate one in particular here: when you have a "sealed indictment," it is sealed — as in not publicly available — for a reason. We used them a lot in drug conspiracy cases, where you had evidence of lower level people but were still working the investigation up the chain, and you would indict a lower level dealer when you had evidence on them, seal the indictment so as not to tip off higher level dealer/distributors, and then unseal the entire batch of indictments if and when you completed the investigation or you had to make an arrest on someone you thought was going to flee the jurisdiction.
Once you talk about an indictment that is under seal with anyone, you break that seal and the information contained within the indictment can become public. Which, frankly, defeats the whole point of having a sealed indictment in the first place.
Now, how this fits into Jason Leopold’s reporting is murky in my mind – because I have no idea who his sources might be on this and how much legal knowledge they might have and/or what they may have said to him or how they said it. iAnd it is awfully tough reading someone else’s anonymously sourced tea leaves, to be perfectly honest.
As a prosecutor, you often prepare what is known as a "bill of particulars" (at least, that’s what we called it in my jurisdiction, anyway) or a draft indictment for review by the grand jury prior to asking them to indict someone. The draft is a sort of blueprint of the evidence and chanrges that you want to emphasize the the jurors as what you’d like to see indicted — but the grand jury gets to vote on each charge separately and can make changes and/or amendments as they see fit when they deliberate and vote.
It is entirely possible that this sort of draft may have been shown to Rove’s legal team — although you don’t usually do so, since it is the province of the grand jury to decide on charges, not the prosecutor, and you try not to imply otherwise since that would be overstepping your bounds and prosecutors really try not to do that. At least, I did anyway. (But I have absolutely no evidence that this happened through any of my sources — I’m just throwing it out there as a possible thing that may or may not have happened, so please don’t everyone run around thinking that it did happen — just that it may be one possible explanation on last week’s rampant speculation aroudn the blogosphere, and that’s all.)
That doesn’t mean that you don’t discuss with defense counsel prior to seeking an indictment that his/her client is facing charges under a number of potential areas of law — and would they like to discuss a potential plea to what is known as an "information" (or list of charges to which the defendant pleas rather than be indicted — it’s like the list that they would have seen in an indictment, just usually lesser than the whole list that would have been requested fromt he grand jury, in exchange for whatever plea agreement is reached, including cooperation and testimony most often).
But again, not knowing who any of Jason’s sources were/are, it’s impossible to say if this was meant or something else or what. I agree with Jane that I think it is wonderful that Jason offered to out his sources if they proved to have steered him wrong. That’s way more than we ever got out of La Diva Judy and her WMD debacle, so I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens with that after his announcment that he would out any sources that steered him wrong during a radio interview. From the Salon interview, it looks like that’s not going to happen any time soon, since they are taking a wait and see attitude after again speaking with their sources and monitoring what they see in the Fitzgerald investigation, but I wanted to throw that out there since I hadn’t commented on that aspect yet. (Joshua Frank has more thoughts, from a self-confessed "friend of Leopold" perspective, which I also wanted to note here for our readers.)
As I have repeatedly said here, I have had no sourcing to tell me that the reports are valid or invalid — although I would note for the record that there was no official announcement on any of this from Fitzgerald and his team last week – so I’m just watching the news and reaching out to my sources — as is Jane — as we go along.
Which, considering its a secret grand jury investigation with incredibly high political stakes and a lot of behind-the-scenes rumors and backstabbing and machinations that would make Machiavelli blush, is a lot to sift through on any given day, even as we wait to see what the ongoing investigation may or may not turn up in the end.
As someone who spent a helluva lot of her life dealing with the criminal justice system, I can tell you that investigations can take a long, long time — but when the pieces fall into place, things can go pretty quickly after that. I honestly have no idea what stage Fitzgerald is at in this investigation — wish I had some secret, inside track on that, but I don’t have one other than reading Murray Waas’ excellent tea leaves along with the rest of you — but I promise that if we hear news on that front at any point from sources that we consider reliable and solid, you guys will be among the first to know. More to come in Part II…
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Fitzy ROOTbeer
fitz!
Ritz!
ALEX HALEY! (apologies to Pacha)
with so much of Leopold’s ‘reporting’ having dealt with the marathon negotiating sessions at Boggs et al (Luskin’s homebase), it’s my supposition that a staffer (janitor, secretary, IT dude, etc)(maybe junior level attorney) there is Leopold’s main source . . .
Christy – do you have a giant flow-chart on your livingroom wall to keep track of all this?
emptywheel’s take on the Armitage revelations in the NYDN.
“I’d like to move discussion of today’s NYDN article on Armitage up here, so I’m going to copy Jeff’s comment from the last Plame thread:”
Her post is about a different Plame topic, “Reading Novak.” emptywheel thought enough of the NYDN stuff, however, to start a discussion about it.
Oooh — thanks, John — I hadn’t seen that yet today. I’ll add a link to the above for everyone and dig into the emptywheel post later when I can get time to do so. Thanks much for the heads up!
Christy, you go girl. Sometimes I come here to read your articles just to figure things out in this case! ;)
Loosen Your Drag…
History will absolve Jason Leopold, Wayne Madsen and a few other hard charging journalists, but for now I have caught the smaller fish and am using him to catch a real lunker – if I strike too soon the hook won’t set.
Remember, a fish rots from the head and Official “A” stands for a**.
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
Focusing on what we do know: we know that Rove visited the GJ for the fifth time more than three weeks ago and Fitz hasn’t cleared him yet. I take that as a positive sign.
Perhaps Fitz is busy dealing with the Libby defense and this is why the Rove matter is taking awhile.
Would it be a possibility then that Rove’s team was indeed given the lay of the land from Fitzgerald, but that Fitzgerald is not coming forth publicly because of how the exposure of his Rove chapter would impair, infringe or diminish his intention of stepping up the next rung of the ladder, ie Official A in the Rove indictments? As I’m certain Defense Libby & Rove are perched like vultures waiting for Fitz to make the slightest misstep, Fitz is becoming ever more cautious? (Bought my bottle of champagne yesterday so am still optimistic)
If, as speculated, Armitage is a cooperating witness, the judge would almost have to give a special dispensation to sneak him in the back way, to avoid tipping people off-perhaps if the target (Cheney?) knew of his cooperation, Armitage could be in a real pickle.
FWIW Leopolds editor (Pitt) will have an update on the “situation” today at noon, pacific tim
Dadhusker, thanks. Where did you get that info?
OK, I have to ask – what is the picture for this post? Is that Richard Armitage? Why the coconut?
As Joshua Frank says in his article, who you gonna believe, the lying sacks of sh*t in the WhiteHouse or someone trying to dig the truth out of their big piles of sh*t?
I really want to believe Jason Leopold, not just for the shadenfreude but also to kick some fear-filled MSM butt. I have a hard time being patient with people who know the dam is broken but can’t tell you until the flood has carried you off.
Thanks for the Fitx.
Christy, thanks a lot. I really need your posts on it, because sometimes I have a real hard time following emptywheel’s posts and the comments section.
I smell Babs Comstock behind Leopold’s sources. Caveat emptor. These are experienced ratfuckers and disinformation specialists. Coordinating a disinformation campaign to discredit bloggers and muddy the waters on this whole affair seems like a natural strategc path for these people. The more history I read, the more natural it appears.
Of all the people with access to sources, only Leopold has the goods, and maybe Madsen? Really? Not Waas? Not Larry Johnson? Really?
Why doesn’t Truthout make good on Leopold’s promise to out his sources past the Friday self-declared deadline, with their credibility on the line? The Leopold story has not held up, and as Chrsity elliptically suggests, what parties with knowledge of a sealed indictment would have any interest in leaking that fact? Under what plausible circumstances would a prosecutor unseal his own indictment to defense counsel?
Isn’t it at least possible that Leopold was diliberately set up by his sources?
Jason’s sources are gold. I just rolled Rove and have siad repeatedly that I will serve no indictments before their time.
who you gonna believe, the lying sacks of sh*t in the WhiteHouse or someone trying to dig the truth out of their big piles of sh*t?
That’s a false dichotomy.
BioOhio at 15 — It is Richard Armitage. And it’s a melon from which he is drinking — and I have NO idea what the story is behind it. I just thought the visual of the melon and Armitage was amusing. *g*
Christy, re: witnesses having to come in the front door. Your source is a Newsweek article which says simply: “In the summer of 2004, presiding Judge Thomas Hogan ordered all witnesses to go through the front door.” (This same Nov 7 ‘05 article assures us, “Rove remains in some jeopardy, but the consensus view of lawyers close to the case is that he has probably dodged the bullet.”)
So is it possible that Judge Hogan said something like, “Everyone uses the front door… unless I grant an exception?” And might Fitzgerald have subsequently said, “Judge, if I reveal to the public, and thus to Libby and Official A, that Armitage is documenting the falsity of their statements, they’re going to fine-tune their disembling, and it’s going to hinder my efforts to stealthily work up the ladder. Can I have an elevator pass?”
Hey, Patrick J. Fitzgerald guy at 19 — I appreciate some humor as much as the next gal — but an attempt at outright impersonation crosses a line with me. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that so you could dial it back a notch or three. Thanks.
The NY Daily News article doesn’t say Armitage didn’t go through the front door. They could have smuggled him in through the front door in a group, in disguise, any number of ways.
What worries me about the Leopold source (if there really is one) is that it might be a siting member on the grand jury.
If that turned out to be the case, how damaging would this be to the case against Rove?
percy at 22 — I haven’t found any order reversing the prior Hogan order. That’s not to say that something might have been entered under seal allowing for a secret witness or so for investigative purposes — but I wanted to throw it out there because the NYDailyNews article jogged my memory on that point. And I thought perhaps the research hounds that frequent the blog might have seen something that I missed somewhere. :)
ummmm, that kinda looks like a skull that Armitage is drinking from…creepy.
but, it’s a melon…
I hope he has turned on the whole lot of them and at least done his part to uphold our Constitution.
Just offering you some friendly guidance. Hope the filings were helpful.
Thanks heaps for the update Christy. I figured it would be out today sometime..where you find time to do all of this research amazes me.
peace..
Even if the ruling against bringing witnesses in through the back door is still in place, was there any stipulation that witnesses couldn’t come through the front door in disguise?
I have this killer image of Dick Armitage dressed up like one of the old “Pepperpot” women from Monty Python’s Flying Circus, tottering up to the front door of the courthouse clutching a handbag, and I’m not quite yet ready to cut that image loose just yet. ;^)
Ooh, what a dilemna for Bush. Would he rub Armitage’s head, or the coconut?
OT, but we all should get out and buy a CD the first chance we have:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/…..index.html
moi @ #26 – not sure how a GJ member would know about details of the supposed meeting at Patton Boggs. IF it did indeed happen, and they shut down an entire floor of the building, then there would be a lot of people who could have told Leopold of it, and not necessarily in any detail – just it happened …. but this is all conjecture ….
Uh… Clem @ 31, maybe darkblack could pick that up and run with it? I’d like to see that, darkblack’s graphics are wicked funny …
This may be a silly question, but is it possible that there was a sealed indictment as of May 12th, and the early plan was for a public announcement of that indictment last week, but due to a scheduling conflict, or events beyond Fitz’ control, it got postponed and we just haven’t heard about the it?
Once you talk about an indictment that is under seal with anyone, you break that seal and the information contained within the indictment can become public. Which, frankly, defeats the whole point of having a sealed indictment in the first place.
Now, how this fits into Jason Leopold’s reporting is murky in my mind –
I have kind of a sick, sinking feeling that the Leopold imbroglio may have actually affected the outcome here in some way. That maybe the indictment would have gone through like he said BUT ONLY IF word didn’t get out ahead of the ball. Something was compromised, and there was Rove on Monday, giving that smug little press conference, as if to say, “Nyah, nyah, nyah! I’m not indicted!”
Christy, is there any type of situation that you could think of that would play out like that? It seemed to me to be a particularly intricate Kabuki performance early this week.
Oh, and on the subject of Luskin’s melon, there, I guess there’s no question that it’s the Kool-Aid he’s sucking through that straw. It’s more pertinent, I think, to wonder what flavor it is. Please-Don’t-Indict-Me Punch? Melon and My Own Words? Hemlock?
Christy at 22:
I’m pretty sure that’s a coconut and not a melon…I suspect that’s a pic from one of Armitage’s many visits to India.
Thanks a ton for you excellent coverage of the fitzgerald prosecution.
Christy,
Look a little closer, I think that is a coconut that old snaggle tooth Armitage is sucking on.
-GSD
He has quite the melon though.
oh my, a ‘clarody’ for those of you on tenterhooks -(the usual apologies to Carly Simon)
We, can never know about indictments to come
But we think about them anyway
And I wonder,if they’re really sealed right now
Or just chasing after some phantom’s say.
AnFitzipation, AnFitzipation
Is making me nuts
Is keeping me waiting
And I tell you, how easy it is to be misled
And how right, your armitage feels around me.
But I, rehashed those theories just late last night
When I was thinking about how right Indict might be.
AnFitzipation, AnFitzipation
Is making me nuts
Is keeping me waiting
And tomorrow, Mr. Leopold may spill his beans
I’m no prophet, I don’t know justice’s way
So I’ll try, to see into just the facts right now
And stay right here, and just play it as it lays.
Angie 28 – ummmm, that kinda looks like a skull that Armitage is drinking from…creepy.
http://www.wolfblog.net/images/armitage_melon.jpg
For the latest CIA leak news, legal documents, timelines and other key materials, see:
“The PlameGate Scandal Resource Center.”
The “smuggling Armitage into the grand jury” rumor makes me smile for a number of reasons. First, it would mean that an inside man has flipped, which is always fun. Second, the rumor implies that he testified recently, meaning it’s this grand jury, as opposed to the previous one, and Fitz wouldn’t bring the new grand jury up to speed unless he was planning to indict someone. Third, it makes me wonder why Hogan ordered all witnesses to use the front door in the first place. If Fitz has a fistful of back door passes, that’s more of an incentive to flip–it keeps the CNN cameras off your front lawn.
unstick, comments!
I agree with the coconut as what Armitage is drinking from. Drinking fresh coconut milk thru a straw is common for tourists — drinking whatever from a muskmelon is just plain odd . . .
IMHO Leopold’s “sources” are Jane, Christy, emptywheel, and the other great plameologists. He may have a “source” that Fitz was at Luskin’s office or some “event” like that, but he appears to tailor whatever he writes around what he reads on the blogs. Then he puts unattributed Jane’s Christy’s emptywheel’s, Jeff’s, pollyUSA’s, Pluk’s… insights into the mouths of these non-existent sources. My sense is his goal was to claim forevermore that he was “first” to state that Rove was indicted. I guess he did the same thing with JPII’s death. Everyone knew the Pope was on his deathbed. Jason just got out their first and twisted in the wind until the Pope finally died. Everyone is pretty sure Rove will be (or already has been, sealed) indicted, imo Jason just wants to “position” himself wrt to what we already are almost 100% sure will happen.
DHinMI has a good post about Jason’s history over at tnh for anyone who is interested. First the WSJ fired him, then Salon. Often, he comments here at FDL and over at tnh under assumed names alsways asking, “have you seen the latest scoop from Jason Leopold?” He’s trying to drive traffic from FDL to truthout claiming scoops that he learned from Jane and Christy.
He also imo gives progressive blogs a bad name by being so “loose” with his sources. You never see Jane or Christy ever even use an anonymous source. They always link. With Jason it’s just the opposite, all his information always comes from “his” anonymous sources.
I hope he’s right. I hope he’s not making it all up. Unfortunately, I don’t see any reason to trust those hopes. Last Saturday on a radio program, he said he would “out” his sources if their predictions didn’t come true this week. Ok, it’s been a week, who are his sources?
Jeebus, twolf!
Man Christy, you get up with the chickens don’t you? Must seem like you have already put in a day!Thanks for the update and the … skull….duggery.
Two corrections:
Pach said, “I smell Babs Comstock behind Leopold’s sources. Caveat emptor. These are experienced ratfuckers and disinformation specialists. Coordinating a disinformation campaign to discredit bloggers and muddy the waters on this whole affair seems like a natural strategc path for these people.”
And actually, that makes a whole lot more sense to me than what I was positing at No. 37.
And now I see that it’s Dick Army drinking from that melon, so No. 38 isn’t all that funny. Wake up, Rex!
I think we can be almost certain that none of the sources or leaks are coming out of Fitzgerald’s office, which leaves any number of possibilities, all of which have some kind of underlying agenda. Since we don’t know where it is coming from, it seems to me that we are missing a primary element in determining whether it is true. I hope this isn’t coming from someone on the grand jury, because even if the leaker were booted off, I think an automatic taint would attach to any indictment issued. This would lead me to suspect that any inside leak from the GJ itself might have its genesis in someone working for Rove. They are the only ones who would want the public to perceive that any indictments are essentially meaningless due to partisan bias.
Have begun to wonder whether both Rove’s and Libby’s teams are using us to color public perception of this investigation. You know that even though most of us are among the most rational, reasonable, intelligent and perceptive people out there, it’s a snap of the fingers for the MSM to paint us all as part of the lunatic, partisan fringe that just wants revenge against Bush because we hate him so much. Despite the overwhelming body of informed analysis, they will cherry-pick the more outrageous comments and declare that they are representative of what is happening out here in liberal land. Not saying we shouldn’t continue to examine and explore the various filings and happenings, but I think we need to avoid being used.
When all is said and done, I am confident that more indictments are coming, and that neither Libby nor Rove will be able to mount a defense that gets them off the hook. As someone pointed out, while patience is difficult, the less time the administration has to quell the uproar before November, the better it is for us.
Off to suck up the 10 pounds of dog hair our two labs have shed; I could make a couple more dogs from what has come off of them lately, and am amazed they could have any hair left!
Re: the pic – I immediately thought “Kool-aid.”
Re late night FDL: “Really, other than Russ Feingold and Barbara Boxer, I’d be hard-pressed to name any Democrat in the Senate who I have any respect for.”
Wyden.
Appreciate the Fitz update Christy!
While we’re at it, my theory on why it was so quiet last week: There are a bunch of pending rulings from all of Libby’s motions. The judge (Walton, I believe) implied in oral arguments that a lot of them were not going to go Libby’s way. When the become official, Libby’s status will go from “really fucked” to “really REALLY fucked”. Fitz may be holding out to see if Libby flips.
Lol twolf, nice shade.
SNL TV Funhouse funtime.
Smigel hits Bush with multiple spit takes.
Funny stuff:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..html#a8367
-0GSD
Anne – lol – we keep the shop vac in the house for just that reason – and we only have one ’short haired’ pooch
Here’s another one for your melon:
http://www.wolfblog.net/images/armitage_melon2.jpg
OT–Here’s an interesting article in the Wash Po from a Republican that’s fed up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01770.html
He sounds a lot like us Democrats who are sick and tired of our own kind (Lieberman and Hillary come to mind.) selling us out.
I’m with Pach, I think Leopold at best is being used by Comstock, et. al., and at worst he is just making crap up.
I went back and looked at Fitz’s history in these type of cases. He is never fast. Never. He takes the maximum time he can. It’s not a surprise that he indicted Libby on the very last day of the grand jury. Fitz’s people do NOT leak. Any information in these cases comes from the defense and gj witnesses. All of this noise lately about Rove’s fate being decided soon is wishful thinking from Rove’s side. If you look back at when Libby was indicted – the MSM knew it was coming. Fitz sent Libby a target letter, Libby’s lawyers and the WH leaked that an indictment was coming down. The only question was whether Rove was going to be indicted then too.
Fitz pattern is very easy to follow – and he does the same thing almost every time. Fitz runs his prosecutions like they were big, slow-moving, unstoppable steamrollers. He takes the maximum time, he finds out as much as he can, he doesn’t tolerate leaks, before he goes to the gj he sends a target letter, the gj indicts, then Fitz holds a press conference to announce the indictment and answer questions. Then his side shuts up outside of the courtroom until after the trial. This is what he does almost every time. And he usually only accepts a plea deal only after an indictment.
Truthout’s story never made any sense.
It’s definitely a coconut. Vendors at bus/truck stops throughout Central America have coolers of chilled coconuts which they cut open, pop a straw into, and sell to weary, heat-stroked travelers.
And speaking from personal experience, fresh chilled coconut milk is absolutely exquisite; thirst-quenching and delicious.
Even though his a conservative and crusty old former cracker, I still respect old Robert Byrd for the esteem with which he holds the institution and for his dedication to the dying art of well crafted public speech complete with copius literary and biblical references.
-GSD
It’s definitely a coconut. Vendors at bus/truck stops throughout Central America have coolers filled with fresh coconuts which they cut open, pop a straw into, and sell to weary, heat-stroked travelers.
Speaking from personal experience, fresh chilled coconut milk is absolutely exquisite; thirst-quenching and delicious.
Is it possible that Armitage didn’t go before the grand jury and was before Hogan or some other judge instead? With all the court filings, is there ever a time when a prosecutor might bring a witness to help him argue why one of those court filings should be granted/not granted? That might be the loophole.
I’m with those who think the delay is deadly to Rove. And Libby. The thought that Armitage has flipped is quite the morning appetizer! Dick going down will be the main course and AWOL’s #’s in the teens the just dessert.
cbl at 41 – Damn, FDL needs an mp3 section.
John Casper – Whether Leopold turns out to be right or wrong on this one, I think you’ve correctly pegged as a “reporter” who plays fast and loose. I noticed with admiration that when his story was all over the fdl comments, Jane and Christy wouldn’t touch it, in their official posts, with a ten foot snark. Props to J&C.
Finally, I’m going to weigh in as fdl’s self-appointed official coconut expert. It’s a coconut. The coconuts you see in US supermarkets are small, woody, “hairy” and brown. But that is just the inside of the coconut. Around that is a fibrous mass, and outside that is the smooth, usually green shell you see in the photo. Street vendors in tropical countries will whack off the top third of the coconut, which also removes the top of the interior “wooden” coconut. THen they’ll insert a straw so that the thirsty purchaser can sip the generous portion of coconut milk inside.
I’ll second that GSD wrt to Robert Byrd– his love and respect for the Constitution is unparalled among our elected officials.
argh – posting problems – sorry!
Christy at 22 -
That is not melon; Armitage is drinking out of coconut. Quite a common thing in Asia. Very tasty too and quite fun to drink right out of the coconut (rather than from a glass). Coconut has high cholestorol, but occasionally it is okay.
Christy at 22 -
That is not melon; Armitage is drinking out of coconut. Quite a common thing in Asia. Very tasty too and quite fun to drink right out of the coconut (rather than from a glass). Coconut has high cholestorol, but occasionally it is okay.
Christy at 22 -
That is not melon; Armitage is drinking out of coconut. Quite a common thing in Asia. Very tasty too and quite fun to drink right out of the coconut (rather than from a glass). Coconut has high cholestorol, but occasionally it is okay.
A touch of gin in coconut is great too.
Site’s back up! Does this count as a partial Fitz?
Is everyone back yet? Very low FDL sitemeter activity for the last 1.5 hours, so I’m assuming I wasn’t the only one locked out.
You were not alone, JWR!
Whew! Thanks, angie.
Marc Ash at Truthout has posted an updated response today. They are still pretty much sticking to the story:
http://forum.truthout.org/blog…..115826/135
…and we’re back!!
Sorry about the server problems, they’re being worked out as we speak.
Yep, it was a server issue. Hopefully one that we’ve resolved somewhat. GThanks everyone for your patience.
easy on the server techs! while waiting for FDL to revive, I spent the time installing blogging software on a homebuilt server. this stuff aint trivial!
Haven’t read the thread yet, but this morning on Tweety’s show Kathleen Parker told Tweety that Rove would never be indicted. Not Monday, this coming week, next week or ever. Is this another RNC talking point or does she know something we don’t. Any chance their planning on getting rid of Fitz or did Rove turn?
She seemed pretty sure of herself. Any ideas?
Read the latest Truthout post. Three different news orgs – IIRC, MSNBC, ABC News and Knight Ridder Newspapers – have given Truthout independent confirmation. Having said that, Truthout now seem to be constructing a way out of their mess – that Rove has turned state’s evidence. If that’s the case, then the next Fitzmas will be even bigger and better than we were expecting.
If Rove has flipped, we’re not going to know anything new for weeks. Never mind.
I thought the truthout response was interesting. I am taking a wait and see approach. I would believe that slime bucket Rover would turn though. Actually didn’t Jeralyn say she thinks that is a possibility?
George A. #80:
The truthout.com statement, to which Rob Zuber so kindly linked in his #75 above, speculated that Rove’s flipping might be the reason that their story from last weekend didn’t pan out.
Personally, I’m an agnostic.
Christy, our friend @29 is suggesting something that our not-so-friend seixon has been wondering about. Though, the persona can be grating at times.
In the emptywheel threads there is starting to be a focus on Woodwards “secret” and the sequence of information flow around that. Maybe a topic for later.
And though its worth absolutely nothing, I something subsstantial did happen a week ago Friday.
Christy, our friend @29 is suggesting something that our not-so-friend seixon has been wondering about. Though, the persona can be grating at times.
In the emptywheel threads there is starting to be a focus on Woodwards “secret” and the sequence of information flow around that. Maybe a topic for later.
And though its worth absolutely nothing, I thin something substantial did happen a week ago Friday.
I fired up the ol’ Mac and almost stroked out when I couldn’t get on FDL. Went and read Emptywheel, Digby, Tbogg, etc. but it just wasn’t the same.
What an addiction.
What nobody mentions about Rove is that he has a superlucrative multimillion dollar business ( winning elections for scumbags ) that would be severely damaged if not destroyed ( who’s going to employ a convicted felon?) if he gets indicted. That has to be a consideration for him. There are plenty politicians not called Bush who would want the top political pollster/strategist running their campaigns in the future, and less and lees influence from Chimpy on the decision to flip as his approval ratings keep falling.
George A #80
Kathleen Parker is a real right winger so I am sure she is just spouting the latest talking point. I really doubt she knows anything official. The orlando sentinel proudly prints her rhetoric so I finally ended my subscription..enough is enough..
peace,
harry, rethugs would almost certainly have no problem hiring convicted felons, unfortunately.
Regarding the comment by Kathleen Parker on Tweety’s show, it’s completely meaningless. She’s a right wing hack. Tweety’s stupid show has a stupid segment where the pundits get a few seconds to spout out an outrageous “prediction”. It’s just used to get attention. It has zero value.
new thread– old scooter.
For people with computer problems, TheElderGeek.com is a good tech form for Windows OS issues.
http://www.theeldergeek.com/forum/
I just ran Ad Aware SE, a free program for clearing out spybots and other cache thingys that infest computers and make them run slow. It wiped out the address bar cache in IE-6, but not in FireFox — hmmm . . .
al-Scooter, I just read the Truthout link posted above and still aren’t sure about it. He did say he would out his sources if an indictment wasn’t handed down by the end of last week. If no indictment comes down by the end of this week I will not have any reason to ever believe anything Leopold says.
Did anyone else see Tweety this morning? Aslo it would be a good idea if reporters researched the Patriot Act to NSL Letters. Reporters better be using throw away cell phones {you know the ones you purchase dollar minute cards and then use for your calls} after talking to a source they could than discard them. All they need to do is use a alias for their name when having them turned on.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but thanks again for the best analysis on the Plane leak case, anywhere. Between Firedoglake and Murray Waas, why read anything else?
I hate to sound like a broken record, but thanks again for the best analysis on the Plane leak case, anywhere. With Firedoglake and Murray Waas, why read anything else?
I hate to sound like a broken record, but thanks again for the best analysis on the Plane leak case, anywhere. With Firedoglake and Murray Waas, why read anything else?
(SORRY about that) It really was like a broken record.
Keith from Orlando #88
Thanks for the info. Wasn’t sure who she really was. Don’t have cable so the only political talk shows I can watch {outside Jim Lehrer on PBS} are on Sunday mornings.
Oh, by the way I’m in Orlando also.
First, Kathleen Parker is in the running for Sandpaper Queen. She wouldn’t know truth if it jumped up and took her peroxide away.
Second: Armitage.
This guy is a treacherous, paranoid, amoral melonhead. When I think of Armitage, I think of Colonel Flagg from MASH. But he displayed a few flashes of good sense during his recent tenure at State. For this guy to seem sane and competent in comparison to the rest of the Bush Administration tells us how bad things are. He is not someone you can trust. See above about treacherous, paranoid and amoral.
But he had deep ties to the Intel community, especially DIA and CIA (he definitely served in the former; debatable about serving in the latter), and his behavior over the decades has indicated that he is, above all else, a Company Man, in the traditional sense of the word in Intel circles. A Company Man would not be comfortable with the BushCo-CIA slugfest. And a Company Man never stops being a Company Man. He’ll come down on the Intel side of a brawl, when push comes to shove.
I don’t think a Company Man, even a neo-con as loopy as Armitage, would have been pleased, much less participated, in the outing of an NOC. I dare say he would have been awfully pissed. I wouldn’t want this guy pissed at me.
Time will tell, but that’s always been my take on the Armitage angle.
John Casper you’re absolutely right. Leopold needs to out his sources now.
Anyone discussed the possibility that Rove was indicted when Libby was, but it was sealed due to the V. Novak story?
Isn’t that photo upside down? Hard to tell.
I emailed Rich who want’s to be known as ‘ Rebecca’ from now on btw and she told me a proverb she picked up in Amman when she pre-op…it’s an old desert saying – something like…
‘ A women for duty
A boy for pleasure
A melon for ecstasy!’
She’s a heckuva gal that Becca!
In the shot of Mr.Armitage sucking-with-intent on the straw, is his right hand holding an inverted fresh monkey skull, and is his straw aimed at pituitary?
He’s so darn butch, it wouldn’t be out of chararacter.
Lose the middle ar, that’s character. Whew.
Re: Armitage Entrance
Because it is not the same grand jury, the 2004 Order may not apply. In any event, it is extremely unlikely that we will know anything until Fitzgerald wants us to and that is the way its supposed to work. See Fed.R.Crim.Proc. 6(e).
Actually it’s Randall Samborn, not Russell.