
Gen. Hayden’s hearings for the Director of Central Intelligence begin today in the Senate Intelligence Committee. The Young Turks will begin coverage of the hearings live at 9:30 am ET. (They are getting up at 5:00 am to be able to do this, so send them some click thru traffic love — especially considering I haven’t been able to find coverage anywhere else that I can watch here in the hinterlands.)
In reading through the coverage of the Hayden hearings today, a few things jumped out as intriguing or amusing, and I wanted to point them out for discussion here:
– The WaPo has an editorial from former DCI Robert Gates urging confirmation of Hayden as the new DCI. A little background: I met Gates when I was in college at a conference in Georgetown, and royally pissed him off by asking why there had been so many personnel issues with women being passed over for promotion in the CIA under his watch. (Yep, I was a pain in the butt, even in college.) And I swear, they opened a file on me somewhere that day, because he looked like he wanted to hit me and refused to shake my hand or even speak with me at the cocktail party afterward. Seeing how I was a lowly college kid, it was pretty damned amusing.
Anyway, enough of the trip down memory lane, in the editorial, Gates sings Hayden’s praises for the first two thirds and then drops this little poke at Negroponte which I thought was rather amusing: it seems that Gates was the President’s first choice, but when he turned down the Director of National Intelligence gig to stay at Texas A&M, then Negroponte got the call.
The folks in the Administration have probably known this — but now all of Washington does. Hello gossip central in the beltway today. (And why bring it up now? To bring Negroponte down a peg so that Hayden could start on a slightly firmer footing — better for the CIA? Personal payback — I’d believe it after the display of temper I saw just because I had the temerity to ask the man a question? Man, I’d love to know the motivation on this one. Did I tell you it was amusing?)
– USAToday says that Hayden is nobody’s lackey. Well, that’s swell, isn’t it? Guess we can just all go home now.
– In the Chicago Tribune, of all places, Tim Roemer has some thoughts on what questions and debate needs to occur on intelligence in the context of the Hayden hearings.
– According to the NYTimes, Hayden has an impressive — if not red flag raising on occasion — resume.
– The good news is that intel committee members were more widely briefed (in theory) about the NSA programs and other questionable Bush Administration intelligence maneuvers and illegalities. The bad news is that, now that they are more informed, it could limit their ability to ask pointed questions because they cannot then reveal what they know to be classified information. It’s a Catch-22. But the latest reporting on the NSA spying is that it focused on long-distance calls — which means all those denials from phone companies about phone records yesterday are so much crap, since the long-distance divisions are separate from the sections of the company that were initially asked the questions. Tricky, eh?
Should be an interesting day of hearings — well, as far as they get without having to go into closed, classified session anyway. Here’s hoping that Sens. Feingold and Levin are on their game today.
UPDATE: CNN is doing coverage this morning as well. I don’t know for how long, or how much of the hearings, but they are doing some pretty thorough stuff at the moment. Just FYI. C-Span1 is doing coverage as well this morning.
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Fitz’im
Fitz
Missed again!
Here is my rundown and analysis of General Hayden’s tenure as head of NSA and his disregard for civil liberties. Not only is he dangerous to civil liberties, he is also a bad manager. A MUST READ if you are planning on following the confirmation hearings.
Morning, Christy. Gates sounds like a real charmer. It would indeed be very interesting to know if his slap at Negroponte was simply a display of personal pique, or something more calculated. On a related issue, did we ever hear whether Tice testified this week?
Walsingham! (y el Fitzo)
looks like hearings will be on cable news channels along with C Span -
always enjoy watching John McLaughlin, but to have to watch Patsy Roberts AND Wolf Blitzer is waaay too much blerrgh for me
Rayne, let’s hope the “good” Levin shows up today
Christy – the graphic isn’t loading.
Senator Roberts ignorance is no impediment to securing a chairmanship either
normally I’d watch the hearings on CSpan (yes, we get CSpan3 out in Indianapolis!) but with the imminence of frogmarchery : I’m going to have to use a news channel so they can do the cutaways to multiple perp walks…
Pat Roberts: “You have no civil liberties when you are dead.”
Remind me to sew that one on a cushion.
What happened to C&L? Their site either got hacked or it’s gone… Anyone know anything about it?
C-SPAN is carrying hearings, FYI. Roberts blasting the leaks, not the program. No surprise there.
If you have not seen or read the article in The Sun (Baltimore) today, here’s the link and a quote from the beginning. It’s an eye-opener.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne…..-headlines
There’s more. And it ain’t pretty.
Pat Roberts: “You have no civil liberties when you are dead.”
yeah — but he ripped that quip off either Himmler or Beria . . .
Kristy,
Did you get that Kos, Boing Boing, and some of the other bloggers aligning with Larry and the other retired CIA operations officers used to be Peace Corps volunteers? Is this the same as the guy who was on the intelligence committee. Seems kinda funny.
Watching the Paterson preamble at the hearing now on CSpan. The master Bush sycophant, the worst of the worst republican congressional committee chairman maggot eating away at the oversight edifice of our constitution, pontificates in that phony preacher style tremulous tone meant to intimidate the brain dead of our country. Let’s see how he practices his suckass ways at this hearing.
Good morning, Christy. Happy to see you with fingertips at the ready. So much to think about today. Go Turks!
And just a reminder – Gore 2008 begins May 24th in select theaters.
http://www.climatecrisis.net/
A ray of hope emerges!
It was that stellar patriot John Cornyn who said no civil liberties when you’re dead – oh, yeah, I’m proud to be a constituent . . .
Re my comment #16 Its Roberts not Patterson…
I switched out the picture — the original one was loading fine for me, but was causing problems for other browsers. Hopefully, the current picture will work better for everyone.
cbl (7) — yeah, me too…I need to call the local office and have a chat with one of Levin’s reps this morning about this very topic.
And I’ll be sending out a rapid response request to all my progressive peeps asking them to call the Senate Intel committee members to ask them to sh*t-can Hayden. His testimony in front of Congress in 2001/2002 certainly made it sound like he had all the existing legal means he needed for SIGINT save for interpreters; what the hell changed, why didn’t he contact the Senate Intel Committee…and why is he not yet a civilian?
Any other questions the rest of you think we should be asking? Let’s post ‘em and get our talking points straight.
BTW: Senate Intel Committee –
Republicans:
Pat Roberts, Chairman (Kansas)
Orrin Hatch (Utah)
Mike DeWine (Ohio)
Kit Bond (Missouri)
Trent Lott (Mississippi)
Olympia Snowe (Maine)
Chuck Hagel (Nebraska)
Saxby Chambliss (Georgia)
Democrats:
Jay Rockefeller IV, Vice Chairman (W. Virginia)
Carl Levin (Michigan)
Dianne Feinstein (California)
Ron Wyden (Oregon)
Evan Bayh (Indiana)
Barbara Mikulski (Maryland)
Russ Feingold (Wisconsin)
Ex-Officio Members
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist Republican (Tennessee)
Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid Democratic (Nevada)
Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner Republican (Virginia)
For contact information on these Senators, go to http://www.congress.org — you’ll be able to look up by name to find phone and fax numbers to local and DC offices.
So now various of the telcos are targets of large class-action lawsuits, which will cost their shareholders billions if successful.
Question: is there any possible traction in a shareholder lawsuit, or SEC action, for failing to disclose a material risk? (The risk being their cooperation with the NSA without legal cover.)
For some reason, the administration thought giving full IC briefings on the first illegal wiretapping story (what they carefully refer to as (”terrorist surveillance”)would succesfully obfuscate the recent news about the more borad-based story. Levin is calling them on this bait-and-switch. Go get ‘em, Carl!
something strange happening on crooks and liars it looks like they’ve been hacked and redirected to a site called ‘ziaspace’. Tracked down info on Ziaspace, and it appears a number of their associated servers are located outside of Silver Springs, Maryland.
Hmm, something posted to crooksandliars.com that was particular worth burying ? Didn’t check them last night, wonder what happened ?
Rayne at 21 — Just fyi, Rockefeller just had back surgery and won’t be participating in the hearings today. They are hoping he may be able to do so tomorrow, but not certain. Nice of them to schedule this so quickly, so that he couldn’t be there today, wasn’t it? (Pat Roberts is an ass.)
Professor Foland (22) — the question is really whether an executive order authorizing telcos to “lie” to their shareholders and/or customers will make any SEC action or shareholder lawsuit impossible.
In other words, did the POTUS already extend a “corporate pardon” to the telcos?
Thanks Rayne -
sent them all faxes Monday – highlighting pertinent tenets of the 1934 Telecommunications Act and law Talk Left highlighted when USA/NSA story broke last week –
excuse me for a moment – Hey NSA Geeks – put my gd desktop icons BACK where you found them !
back to our regularly scheduled program
At least they are putting him under oath—but with this admin. do they really care whether they are telling the truth under oath or not?
They actually SWORE him in. clearly he will not say anything at all for the next 5 hours.
Let me guess, Hayden will now say that he can neither confirm or deny the existence of this data mining program. But if it exists, it is to protect us and oh yeah, 63% of Americans support it. But again, I am neither confirming or denying its existence…
Sophist @#24, Peeder at dKos provided this link to C&L: http://lain.crooksandliars.com/
Not sure wat is going on though. Looks like they’ve been hacked.
I hope someone asks him what his position is on the outing of a NOC agent. Does he believe it’s a serious crime?
Christy (25) — thanks much; we should still contact Rockefeller’s office anyhow, though, in case he can join before a vote. Rockefeller in particular is very important since he handwrote the message he locked away expressing concerns about NSA program(s)…the question to Rockefeller should be on Hayden’s suitability DCI if he was unable to put Rockefeller at ease while DIRNSA.
And hell yeah, contact Pat Roberts and tell him he has obstructed real representation by scheduling this hearing before Rockefeller could attend. There’s an assistant DCI, he can run the show while the people get the oversight they need.
One more think to point out in my missive to Levin.
A neighbor of ours works for the CIA (now on a detail at OMB) and when I asked him, he said the people he knows want to see Hayden head up the agency. They apparently think he’s an improvement over Goss, which shows how bad things must have been.
Corrine at 33 — I’ve heard that as well. Goss was so badly thought of that Hayden is considered a substantial improvement. Makes you feel safe to know that Goss stayed on the job for two whole years mucking things up, doesn’t it?
My bad – I faxed them this little nugget from Think Progress, not Talk Left -
It violates the Stored Communications Act. The Stored Communications Act, Section 2703(c), provides exactly five exceptions that would permit a phone company to disclose to the government the list of calls to or from a subscriber: (i) a warrant; (ii) a court order; (iii) the customer’s consent; (iv) for telemarketing enforcement; or (v) by “administrative subpoena.” The first four clearly don’t apply. As for administrative subpoenas, where a government agency asks for records without court approval, there is a simple answer – the NSA has no administrative subpoena authority.
They’re Not Getting Data, They’re Getting the Switches
by emptywheel
16 May 2006
“Steve Soto asks why all the Telecom companies are now (after a few days and, presumably, some heated meetings with their crisis communications firms) denying the allegations in the USAT article….”
Shorter Hayden: Now let me throw Goss on Tenet’s sword so no one currently in the administration can be blamed.
OT re:Wayn Madsen report and reposting my EPU’s comment from last thread:
Not endorsing the Wayne Madson report or anything. I am a professional sceptic on this.
However, at least his details sound more consistetn with SOP. But only just a little bit.
I don’t remember any report of Gonzales meeting w/the GJ before the return of the Libby indictment. I never saw the AG meet with a GJ I was involved with, nor even my local US attorney. There is no reason. Before you take the indictment in for the “true bill” vote, it has to be signed off by the US Attorney.
Since Fitz stands in the shoes of the AG, he does not need a sign off (though if he did not feel the Abu had a conflict, he might run it past him as a courtesy)
Abu showing up sounds weird, but maybe it was at Abu’s own request. Abu has done other weird things.
Had it not been for the confirmed sighting of PJF at the President’s lawyer’s law firm right before the Libby indictment, I would be scoffing outright at the idea that he showed up at Patton Boggs.
The EAGLE DOES NOT FLY. Defense lawyers come to visit the government, not the other way around.
The tidbit about Luskin becoming a target, intrests me. That has some possibilites that stir the imagination.
It is also consistent with and would explain something I heard from the foley square rumor mill a while ago, but didn’t understand at the time, and would explain why Luskin became so quiet as of late.
I have not made a secret of my scepticism regarding the Leapold report. While I am miles and miles away from buying into the Madsen thing, I must admit, it has me intrigued.
This fellow is emerging as the Jonathan Turley on Teleph/Internet snooping
OrinKerr
“The War on terror will remain the CIA’s primary responsibility”.
Somebody please nail him to the wall on that. “How do you know that sovereign nations, particularly those with nuclear capability’ do not represent a far greater threat?
Oh, and CIA needs to “get out of the news as source or subject”. Could you pass that memo on to the White House, please?
Okay gang — I’m sorry to say, we are having some “bathroom issues” this morning, as I have a small child with an upset tummy. I’m not going to be able to live-blog the hearings ans I had hoped to do. Sorry. I’m not even certain how much hearing I’ll get to see — I’ve missed quite a bit already, but she’s more important and I’m sure you guys understand that. If someone can blog in the comments, I’ll try to front page stuff as I go this morning. Sorry gang — it’s just one of those mornings here.
Interesting to note, I did some geo-location searches on the the domains and IP addresses associated with ziaspace and found that the first ip address is ‘hidden’ from geo-location. I sure hope it isn’t a protected ‘gov’t’ ip. Its possibly a mishap with C & L’s hosting company, but if it is a hack its a damn sloppy one, especially if it traces back to the washington vicinity, and possible protected gov’t IP addresses.
What was that about saying about the current powers that be, that they are both evil and incompetent ?
I sure hope its just a mishap with the hosting company for C & L otherwise someone just left a big messy trail.
Maybe Jay Rockefeller’s back surgery will improve the strength of his backbone.
Here’s hopin’.
ugh, this is going to be a sham. rockefeller is out recovering from surgery; levin gives a big wet kiss to pat roberts for calling the hearing (how democratic (small d) of him). this is depressing. you can kiss your country goodbye.
cbl 36–my husband belongs to an online discussion group of law professors who work on technology issues. He showed me an entry where they concur that the Stored Communications Act is the law on this. Larry Tribe had a good piece in the Boston Globe, you have to pay for it there but I found it posted for free on the site below:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ar…..ndment.htm
Christy — we’ve got your back, take care of business!! Been there, done that, don’t envy you at all this morning!!
Hey angie — you there? I have to run and get a portable television and see if I can get the hearings over the air while I’m at the office today, will be offline for about an hour. Can you do the play-by-play? Think I remember you doing color during Alito, worked great.
C-Span said they are re-running the whole thing tonight at 9 pm ET on C-Span2. CNN breaking away from it now too and the feed for the C-Span 3 stream is screwed up too. I’m getting audio but no video other than a still.
Christy–
I’ll be able to liveblog for a little while. Right now they took a break for vote on Immigration reform.
RevDeb — the hearing’s on C-Span 3? Damn, I only get 1 and 2. MSNBC has coverage, too, but less predictable than C-Span on coverage.
Here’s what I’m including (and resending to Levin) on Hayden:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ment-93481
Scroll back up that link and note Christy’s question as well.
Okay, looks like the C & L thing may just be a hosting mishap. Further digging points to servernames ‘lain’ with C & L is currently available on. This leads me to believe that the ‘virtual server’ (name for a type of web server that hosts multiple domains) for C&L has failed in some way, defaulting to one of the other, or base level virtual domains on that server.
Apologies for being alarmist. The ‘we’ve been hacked’ over-reaction is an occupational hazard that comes up reflexively for me.
Sorry going OFF TOPIC (sorts)
Got a reply email from Lamon campaign about Net Neutrality. I must say, they are ‘on’. Less than 12 hr turnaround to someone they never heard of. Not even on the donor list, let alone a lobbyist. Nor a CT voter. I’m pasting it all, except for some ‘privacy info’ (and I’m so exceited, I haven’t read beyond the key sentence:
———
Hi Blank,
Thanks for your note. I’m copying Tin Tagaris, who has recently joined the campaign.
Ned supports Net Neutrality. Here is his statement which was up on our site recently:
“The internet is a powerful force for change and the free flow of information. It is also unique as an egalitarian environment powered by the quality of ideas rather than the depth of a corporate pocketbook. Creating a tiered internet would cripple that unique environment and suppress what has become an unparalleled marketplace of ideas.
“We cannot allow the internet as we know it to be fundamentally altered to favor a handful of large companies, at the expense of democratic discourse, entrepreneurs, and small businesses. I applaud Representatives Boucher and Markey, and the other co-sponsors of the Network Neutrality Act, for taking on this critical issue.
“When I am elected in November, I will do the same in the U.S. Senate, introducing and fighting for net neutrality legislation on that side of Capitol Hill.”
Let me know if you have any more questions – and wish us luck at the convention,
Lamont Comm Dir (name here)
On 5/17/06 Blank Kludge wrote:
Hi. I like the ads you folks are starting with. Please take out
Leiberman. Although folks are very supportive, as you already know, one
FDL person is curious, given Mr. Lamont’s involvement w/cable industry,
does he have a position on the currently making its way thru the
Congressional maze piece of legislation popularly known as ‘Net
Neutrality’?
I can’t find reference anywhere on the candidate’s site. If you could
either reply to this mail direct, or shoot something to
Jane/Christy/Pach, I’m sure the blog community would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Blank Kludge
————-
I’m sending quick thanks.
I wonder what would happen to a similar email to Joenomentum. Just askin’…
——
Back to Hayden…
Rayne
I only get 1 & 2 on the teevee too. That’s why I went to the online stream.
Now they are interviewing Jane (HO) Harmon. and the viewo is now working again on the stream.
Jane S. Thanks for the link-
Was over at Intel Dump when the story broke – site hosts are mostly JAG and spook types who called the Dec. 19th disclosures – illegal AND unconstitutional, but they were finessing/parsing the Telcos story, defending NSA Geeks, etc. (you get fired for running your girlfriend’s phone # through the system !! ,etc) anyway they were going on and on about how it might be ‘legal’
then someone showed them Prof. Kerr’s work and they did a serious 180 – saw the same thing happen at another spook blog (via Taylor ?)
keeping an eye on his blog as someone mentioned he is going to address the so called executive order that ‘exonerates’ the Telcos -
good luck on with that one, esp in light of Baltimore SUn story about “legal, non instrusive program they shelved “
Does Preznit Chucklenuts’ executive order permit the telco CEO’s to lie to Congress when they testify, in the name of national security?
If so, things will get very interesting very quickly.
Harman making a statement now on cspan 3 — she is raising questions about the legal underpinnings of the program. She is insisting that the program must comply with FISA. She wants full oversight and says that a Powerpoint presentation provided by the executive branch is not oversight.
Off topic, but anyone try to open Crooks and Liars this morning? Cuz I’m getting Ziaspace.com. For reasons beyond my understanding.
Harman says if this ever got to the SCOTUS, it would be found to be illegal.
Harley,
Please read the comments above yours. It has been mentioned many times.
lhp 39 –
If Gold Bars Luskin has become a target, that would help explain a Fitz visit to his office.
On the other hand, Jason Leopold is way deep into Drudge style rumor mongering. Nothing he writes should be taken seriously, but enjoyed for the ways that it drives awareness of the story.
Why is Hayden’s confirmation today? Russell Tice, the NSA whistleblower, was supposed to testify to Congress yesterday but he seems to have totally dropped off the face of the earth.
Is this another one of Bush’s “I can do what I want” policies. I know I am not daydreaming here, Tice was supposed to blow the lid off the NSA and yet where is he?
Something smells very fishy to me.
OT CA-50 race: Go Busby!
Seems some are investigating whether Bilbray really lives in the district. His mom lives in the district, but then why are his children arguing for instate tuition in VA?
http://www.10news.com/news/923…..p;psp=news
lhp, thanks so much for your 39, loved, “THE EAGLE DOES NOT FLY.”
From the brief bits I’ve seen this morning, I don’t have any doubts about Hayden’s intelligence and drive. I want to know if he’s a man of the law. How does he draw the line between what he is ordered to do and what the law allows? Based on his past experiences, how does he negotiate that ?
There hasn’t been much talk about the person Hayden would bring in as #2 should he be confirmed – someone named Kappas (sp?). Kappas evidently left CIA recently after ‘talking back’ to Goss or people in Goss’ influx of bilge to the agency. Kappas is said to be highly respected by career folks there and would go a long way to restore stability and morale.
Roberts: “Do you renounce Satan and all his works”
MH: “I do.”
PR: “Well, we’re done here I think.”
Or words to that effect.
Roberts shorter version “Will you agree to do your job (ie the administration’s bidding)?
Jane S & cbl –
could you summarize the key points of the Lawrence Tribe piece?
For us click thru challenged types . . .
Re: allowing telcos to lie, I have a question for our legal minds.
The authorizing document is apparently a presidential memorandum rather than an executive order (per, I believe, Think Progress – can’t find link). Now I know for this administration it matters not, since l’etat c’est Bush. But if we were actually following the rule of law, would this make any difference in terms of its interpretation? How is a presidential memorandum distinguished from an executive order in terms of applicability, or is it?
Harman says if this ever got to the SCOTUS, it would be found to be illega
not this court. apparently, she wasn’t paying attention when she voted to approve the latest justices.
Roberts: the Iraq WMD failure was due in large part to tradecraft. He wants to have good intel re Iran, North Korea and China. (his new axis of evil???)
Hayden: wants to make sure that the naysayers are heard.
Not to worry – Evan Bayh’s on the case!!
I’m betting that he uses this opoortunity at today’s hearing to – call for more hearings.
He makes my head hurt.
Thanks FroggerMarch & Angie for live blogging – today is my community garden day – so we’ll all be doing some weeding today
aquarius2 – have been googling Tice’s name for any news out of yesterday – nothing yet
bkny,
Harman is in the House. They don’t get to vote on judges.
Nice catch kristinejoy, thanks. There was a lot of sadness at FDL the night Bilbray got enough votes to force the runoff.
sorry to jump in off topic but there is a very interesting article in the NYT this morning about the Republican revolt in the PA. election yesterday. a bunch of Republican legislators got dumped by “true conservative” challengers. sounds like somebody has already gotten the message of “Crashing the Gates” and it isn’t Democrats.
Roberts saying that bad CIA “tradecraft”is what gave us the wrong information which is why we went into Iraq. What has he been smoking these past 5 years?
Pat Roberts was interviewed in NPR yesterday. One long rhetorical stew of red herrings and other melt-clock non sequiturs. The dude is clueless.
Hayden: The protection of human sources is different from the protection of signal intel.
Patsy: everybody assumed that Saddam would reconstitute his WMD. There were dissenting views and caveats, and we found them out too late. Will you put these dissenting views on the assumption train now?
Hayden: yessiree, we will. We will do our best; you need to understand the limits of the art and science.
could we compile questions that need answered and get them to people that will ask them?
like;
“if the president asked you to do something we at congress said you were not allowed to do, where would your loyalty lie”
we need questions like that answered
in Indiana, the longtime conservatively-moderate Republican leader of the State Senate got dumped in a primary by a total whackjob winger who has advocated public flogging!
work-friendly info site: http://www.theflogger.com
rev deb at 28-> Bu$h has more than likely authored a “pre$idential signing statement” that lieing under oath is permitted. This was probably signed in 2001, so the perjury counts against the TreasonGaters are already moot as well.
Roberts is getting into the failures around WMD. Clearly, the spin is to remind people that EVERYONE thought SH had WMD and it was the Company’s fault for putting concerns in the footnotes, not for the WH to ignore the footnotes.
MH: agility, transaction, ask/respond mode…(his prep is to geek it up)
Kit “U.S.” Bond up and into NSA…
If not already posted -
C SPAN 3 is showing Hayden hearing
Kit Bond up now– if there are questions about the legality of the program, they should be addressed to the AG(aaaaargh). (Pure admin drivel). Could you tell how this program is controlled so you are not listening to political opponents, media, etc.
Hayden: We have a very strict oversight regime. It comes out of the expertise of the counterterrorism experts. We are only looking at the enemy. It is a very disciplined workforce.
ck (60) — I think if WMR is right and Luskin was notified he was a “subject”, it explains his hostile attitude towards Jeralyn and the non-denial denial; he would have been too preoccupied to keep his wits and cool.
Bond: You do ask ALL the proper Republican attroneys to go along with it before you go ahead and break the law, right?
Well, that’s how I heard it anyway.
Hayden saying, basically: Look at me, bud. I’m a STEELERS’ fan, for pete’s sake. I would NEVER do anything wrong.
Bond: Whew! I didn’t think so.
Casper
You should see the attack commercials they are running non-stop–the repug ads are really slimly, but Busby has done a great job pointing out that Bilbray was a big-oil lobbyist–ouch!
It seems to me she now has a very beatable opponent.
On looks: Rove + the father on That ’70s Show = Hayden. Scary stuff.
Thirty years ago Erlichmans deep contempt for the forth ammendment was written all over his ugly face. But at least Obersturmbanfuhrer Erlichman had heard of the forth ammendment!
I’ve been saying for some time now that an open source translucent distributed ( P2P) datebase is essential for us. The MIT tried one for a while with the Open Government project but together we can do better than that.
Today we have more storage, more power and more speed to really ramp up a universal database that respects the forth ammendment. This leveraging of the power and reach of the Whole Wild World will be key to the rapidly approaching endgame – the final destruction of the empires death star.
We have the net now and the net changes everything. The rebel alliance advancing at warp speed in diversity and striking in unision through our ‘terrorist casino’, PAM, the terminatrix can now take out a fully loaded death star.
When the world see’s that they will know the netroot’s rebellion is here.
Christy –
A quick google search on ‘gates cia dci’ brought up enough links to make it clear that he was up to his eyeballs in Iran Contra.
This one is detail rich, but as DDI (Deputy Director) and DCI, Gates managed to ‘not recall’ meeting with or working with key players like Ollie North.
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_16.htm
Manucher Ghorbanifar brokered the HAWK missile parts sale to Iran, but his 41% markup didn’t sit well with the Iranians. I’m not sure if he got paid or the funds were diverted to the Narco-Contras, but DCI Gates managed to dodge an indictment.
Bottom line — Robert Gates is as dirty as they come, and Ghorbanifar is the playing the Chalabi role in “Clusterfucks Revenge Part Two — Flowers and Chocolates on the Road to Tehran.”
OT, with apologies..
Repub. operative James Tobin has been sentenced to jail for jamming Dem. headquarters phones during 2002 election; plans to appeal.
Reuters has it. CNN seems clueless so far.
RevDeb — that’s Roberts standard line. How he can chair the intel committee and consistently publicly bash the intel agencies is beyond me. It’s never about reform for him, it’s always about deflecting blame from the Administration. He has so politicized and poisened the atmosphere in the Senate Intel committee. Shameful.
Bond: People who think the NSA spying is illegal just “want to shut it down.” Panty-waist bastards!
Mikey Mike: It really feels good to do this NSA spying thing. (He actually said “the analysts feel it at the tactile level.” geek, geek.
ck 67–
I am no lawyer, just married to one. Tribe is laying out the relevant SCOTUS decisions and recent laws to make the case that the mass collection of our calling records is in fact a violation of the 4th Amendment and of specific laws passed by Congress. He argues that this is not a Democrat/Republican issue and points to a recent Scalia opinion that warned of the dangers of new technologies infringing on individuals’ privacy rights.
He mentions that the one case that the NSA defenders rely on is a 1979 Supreme Court decision which did not anticipate today’s technology and which is undermined by some more recent SCOTUS cases that address the topic indirectly.
And finally he says that the Congress was more aggressive in passing laws to protect Americans’ privacy with regard to calling records. And that because of these laws, their is a public expectation that our calling records will be protected.
Program launched morning of Oct. 6th.(hmmm)
Kit: what damage has been done by the leaks.
Hayden: dunno, revelations will have an effect on the enemy. we will be successful. It is almost darwinian– we will continue to capture dumb terrorists.
Kit: there are some that want this program shut down; what would happen to our ability to stop the terrorists.
Hayden: I went to see the folks at the height of the first furball (huh?) of this; they want to continue to do what they have been doing to save the Republic.
Don’t know if this has been posted, but there is interesting story on C/NET regarding a legal loophole in the law regarding the NSA surveillance. I am new to this so don’t know how to link, but here is the site:
http://news.com.com/Legal+loop…..73600.html
As others had mentioned it explains how they could deny handing over “records” while being forced to give access to the government.
I think it did it by itself. God I love my Mac.
scientific articles are coming out saying humans & chimps interbred after they first became separate species, which explains how bush is a throwback & why he can’t talk — it also explains why about 30% of americans think he’s doing great & why most americans don’t care if our glorified leaders treat innocent citizens as being the enemy — in sum, pat roberts is a chimp too & he’s playing to his relatives
Jane S — Thanks!!! Great Summary!!!
Kitty: Don Rumsfeld seems to want a LOT more control over intelligence (seeing as how he has so little now, snark). Gotta problem with that?
Mikey: Nosir!
Goopers- who dems have been silently envying for years for their stubborn political discipline and adherence to message, seem to be falling apart.
It’s five and a half months from an election and they seem to have no message, no strategy, and no unanimity. They fall apart in the polls, and rather than fighting back with one voice as one would expect, they scatter into yet more voices and positions- and many go hide.
When the goin gets tough- the goopers run and hide!
Hayden: a happy marriage can be made with CIA and DoD.
(Police state, here we come.)
OFF TOPIC>
Dont know if anybody has seen this joke going around in email, but I good a great laugh from it, the kind of laugh you get when GW is saying he isnt using his immigration speech for Political gain. Here goes:
Donald Rumsfeld is giving his daily briefing to George Bush.
He concludes by saying: “Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed.”
“OH NO!” the President exclaims. “That’s terrible!”
His staff sit stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.
Finally, the President looks up and asks, “How many is a brazillion?”
BWAHAHAHAHA
Well, well, well…it looks like Jason Leopold is coming out smelling like a rose now that a second reporter confirms most of what he reported last week. :)
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
Raw Story Headline (no story yet):
Former Powell aide may be focus in CIA leak probe, former director of NSA asserts… Developing…
Who might the “former Powell aide be”?
Levin up:
Did you design the NSA warrantless program or was it given to you?
MH: Venn diagram (geek)…I did participate in the design…Americans need to FEEL free.
I’m thinking he is an INFJ.
pjf 103 –
Jason Leopold smells like Drudge, even when he gets a story right — which remains to be seen in this case.
The only confirmation that matters is from the real PJF . . .
Leslie in California @ 68
here’s TP link to Presidential Memorandum
Think Progress
Ah- another Myers Briggs fan!
So what’s Clusterfuck? ENTJ? (or perhaps ENFJ)
OT: What the hell is going on at C&L?
After spewing platitudes about the constitution and the law and the 4th amendment and Hayden stating that everything he did at the NSA was lawful without saying anything, every one of the Senators will say good job, oh what a qualified candidate and confirm.
Hayden will then go about making the CIA into a partisan politcal spy agency with a “classified” specialty – domestic spying on organizations and individuals that Cheney considers subversive and not loyal enough.
Levin: Did you design the specific NSA program.
Hayden: I took certain actions after the attack and I told all y’all. Tenet asked me if there was more I could do. I participated in the design.
Levin: if the press reports are true, is there not a privacy concern?
Hayden: we knew it was serious. I told the workforce on the 13th Sept that we needed to balance freedom and security. There are privacy concerns involved in all NSA programs.
Levin: Pressing him — are there other programs???
Hayden: not answering in open session.
Please, please, please stop referring to op-ed pieces as editorials. We went through this last week. I love you anyway!
Levin going after the chew toy. Hayden doing the dance. Can’t answer whether “this” program is “this” program or “that” program.
I just sent this email to my daughter’s teacher this morning.
Dear Ms. James,
My daughter has spent a considerable amount of time the last two days working on her homework assignment on nuclear energy. We have internet access at home and she even has her own laptop. I thought she was fairly lucky in getting nuclear energy as her assignment since her step father is an electrical engineer and her grandfather and brother are both atomic specialist from the ADM in the US Army. I felt she would have some good resources to pull from. Instead I found that her research ties in with current events more than the immigration work she was doing.
One of the big topics on the news the last few days has been the NSA program and the data mining they have been doing with phone records. But a little reported piece on the same NSA program is the internet search data mining they have been doing. Some of the words that Jennifer has been doing for her online research on nuclear energy automatical tags her searches to be routed to the data storage area at the NSA.
I’m writing because I feel that as a teacher you should be aware of what dangers students have been placed in by both the Patriot Act and now the data mining from the NSA. Immigration reform is very important, but the future of education is on somewhat shaky ground. Will parents start to file lawsuits with school boards when students are given homework assignments that could put them in jeopardy? This may be a subject a little above the heads of sixth graders, but should be upper most in the minds of educators. I’m very alarmed that our children will not have the freedom to seek the resources they need for their education. I think that all educators need to be aware of the dangers children can be in when asked to research certain subjects. My daughter’s Library Card is in her own name also, so any books she may check out on this subject can be reported due to the Patriot Act.
This sounds somewhat like an angry Liberal Rant, but really this is a reality of the powers we have given our lawmakers. And believe me, I come from a long line of Republicans. My brother wanted to caution us especially since my husband has to background checks for his employment.
You may already be aware of this but it seems that CrooksandLiars has been hijacked. Check it out.
In re: talking points for messaging Senate Intel Committee –
Did DIRNSA Hayden lie to Congress?
What assurance do we have that he is not “misrepresenting” anything before Senate Intel Committee?
xyz says: Who might the “former Powell aide be”?
May 18th, 2006 at 8:14 am
Who has a list of Powell’s aides?
Hayden – lots of eye-blinking going on. We all know what that means.
Oops, (112) above should have linked to this:
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/19/nsa-director/
MSM memory hole in action (offtopic)
Late last night there was a story on MSNBC about US Marines killing Iraqis in cold blood but this morning there’s no link to it from anywhere I can find (it had briefly been the top story) and their search page doesn’t find it. But the story itself is still there (for now) at:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/
I wonder–was someone pressured to kill this story? By whom? And why? My best guess would be that
* the real reason is it might increase US opposition to the war, and
* the reason that was given was that it might “put our troops in danger”
–which is nuts, since the international media gives these stories full play. Hiding the truth from the US audience doesn’t make the troops any safer. The only one being protected by “happy news” are the politicians that support the war.
–MarkusQ
Crooks and Liars’ John Amato said his site is down over ’server issues,’ RAW STORY can report.
“What happened originally was in Florida where they host the servers they had a flood,” Amato said. “They’re fixing it now.”
The popular video blog was recently down over a commenting problem.
Levin on purely domestic calls now, finally.
did you agree with Veep?
MH: My ol’ buddie Dick? Erm, sure!
His attorneys anchored argument in defense of NSA spying on Article 2…dodging Levin’s questions about Congeressional authorizationon use of force. Levin seems to be on to something here. He lets it go a little quickly, though, for my liking but let’s see where he goes from here. Important point, imho, that the Congressional authorization argument isn’t going to get very far. What is suggested is the WH will dare Congress to take this to SCOTUS.
Levin getting into specifics of Feith’s contention that Al Quaeda and Iraq were in bed together. Hayden saying he disagreed with that assertion. Money quote, dude.
MarkusQ – fyi – NBC Nightly News ran the story last night w/ commentary by Murtha
Levin: Steady pressure placed on intel community wrt Iraq in lead up to the war. What about Feith’s analysis– were you comfortable with his efforts?
Hayden: nope, I wasn’t.
Levin clearly wants Phase 2! This segment all about fixing the intel.
Has anyone addressed the issue of whether or not this clown is independent enough from the criminal White House to deal objectively with intelligence?
Go check out http://www.thewashingtonnote.com – Steve Clemons is reporting that former NSA director Inman has been stating that Richard Armitage is a key target in Plamegate.
Steve admits that this is both unexplained and illogical (Armitage doesn’t exactly have a big foam Cheney hand in his desk drawer), but facts is facts..
# 42 Mom says she has to take care of her kid, and that comes first. When I hear that Mummy’s and Daddy’s put their children before everything else, it make me feel so warm and toasty inside.
Levin: did you have disagreements with rummy?
Hayden: yep.
Levin: what about the mistreatment of detainees?
Hayden: obviously, we’re gonna follow the law and our treaties. We are bound by the laws. We follow the detainee treatment act of 2005.
oops– gotta run!
the Powell aide whose name pops up persistently in the Valerie Whatshername investigation is Richard Armitage…
choochmac @ 95
the so called loophole is a “cert” from AG – remember kids, Quest asked for this and was denied same
anyone -
here is EFF Link with lots of goodies about
Coming Class Actions against Telcos and Current AT&T Case
fyi – Greenwald cites the “penn register” rulings in his recent posts
PennRegister
mentalequinox-77. “This dude is clueless”.
I beg to differ, the Pat Roberts dude is very clued in, but his loyalty is to the Cheney power grab. Everything he does from blaming the CIA for bad intel on Iraq WMD is known to be false. As Drumheller and Pillar have stated on live TV, the CIA provided accurate intel about lack of WMD and AQ connection to the Cheney administration.
His primary role is to block any serious investigation of all the illegal activities Cheney has ordered our national security agencies to undertake against our own citizens. And obfuscate and try and legalize the power grab. And unfortunately most of the Dem senators but specially Rockefeller and DiFi are so intimidated they spout some mealy-mouthed stuff and then join the program.
Gridlock – your story meshes with the raw story article I mentioned upthread. Sources are saying, respectively “former powell aide” (raw story) and armitage (washington note)
“See, I got this problem. Warrants don’t like me. So I don’t like warrants.“
…apologies to Kurtwood Smith
;>)
Hayden’s Venn diagram is like so:
1) what is technologically possible
2) what is operationally relevent
3) what is legal
He wants us all to know that he hangs out in the middle where the Venn diagram overlaps. Thanks, Mikey.
As long as these guys “interpret” the law and the constitution in their own self-serving way, and hire lawyers that support their views and write those opinions that support those views, they will continue to just stand in one long self-referencial iterative daisy chain ad infinitim that we will only be allowed to pay for in so many ways.
Levin can be a putz but he can be useful.
There hasn’t been much talk about the person Hayden would bring in as #2 should he be confirmed – someone named Kappas (sp?). Kappas evidently left CIA recently after ‘talking back’ to Goss or people in Goss’ influx of bilge to the agency. Kappas is said to be highly respected by career folks there and would go a long way to restore stability and morale.
If I recall correctly from the article on TPM, Kappas resigned when one of Goss’ gosslings ordered him to fire a subordinate, and he refused. (I believe the subordinate’s crime was disagreeing with the gosslings about something, but I can’t remember for sure.)
“Valerie Whatshername investigation”
LMAO
could’t that kid Hanna also be considered ‘Powell Aide’?
John Casper
The “eagle does not fly” thing ia actual, though very non official, slogan throughout DOJ including the US Attorey’s offices.
I once joked that I was going to needlepoint it on a pillow.
Good article today relevant to Hayden and the NSA shenenigans of recent history.
Ray McGovern, the guy who recently faced down Rumsfield, calling him a ‘liar’ over his ‘I never said I knew there were WMD’ in Atlanta. McGovern writes today on the growing police state, and the NSA complicity with Hayden at the helm.
[irony]Bodes well for putting Hayden in at the CIA also.[/irony]
I’m also thinking Hannah.
I’m also thinking Hannah.
Oklahoma kiddo (130) — heh. As a mom with a kid still in early grade school, I have a different reaction. I’ve already checked to see if I have BRAT diet on hand (bananas, rice, applesauce, toast unbuttered) in case we get a dose here.
Actually, we did only a couple of weeks ago with the middle-schooler. At least at her age I can explain the technicalities of the recurrence in spring-fall of rotavirus, transmission methodologies, and why she has to eat BRAT for 12 hours…poor Christy is a few years away from that conversation.
fahrender #75:
sorry to jump in off topic but there is a very interesting article in the NYT this morning about the Republican revolt in the PA. election yesterday. a bunch of Republican legislators got dumped by “true conservative” challengers. sounds like somebody has already gotten the message of “Crashing the Gates” and it isn’t Democrats.
If our experience here in Virginia is any guide, that’s a good thing for us. We’ve had a series of elections for the legislature where the wingnuts get the vote out in the primary and nominate a serious wingnut candidate, who then gets trounced in the general election, even in Republican-leaning districts.
It’s actually only superficially similar to “Crashing the Gate”; in fact, they’re working to have the “movement” take over the party by requiring candidates to pass every conservative litmus test or be labeled “not really conservative,” which is the opposite of the separation of party and movement Kos and Jerome advocate in CtG.
Would be great if Fitzy were to find a way of sqeezing some of the White House staff that don’t have the same level of loyalty to Cheney and GW Clusterfuck as Rover and Libby- and who can’t count on a pardon.
Bah article link failed, here it is.
Bowing to the Police state. Ray McGovern.
O/T via Raw Story – breaking
this one’s for you mui -
Breaking
Redshift – the guy’s name is “Kappes” – was #3 and ran the Clandestine Directorate
Wyden winding up now….WHOA big punch straight to the jaw! Not keeping them fully informed. Hayden, personally, not keeping them informed. Failures that put American people in a difficult spot. amen, bro…..
hmm, article link failed again, so here it is without the href
http://www.antiwar.com/mcgovern/?articleid=9002
Speaking of BRAT diet…Christy, any chance you might have someone on antibiotics? Don’t respond here — but live culture yogurt might be called for if she hasn’t had any since antibiotics began.
And now off to work at the Dem office for a while. Can’t get through to Levin’s rep, will try again when I get to the office.
Just dropping in and may have to bolt soon again!
Wyden: you and bushco have not kept the committee informed of clandestine activities for years– until just yesterday. because of your failures, law abiding Americans doubt the govt’s word. I have a problem with your credibility. Are you intentionally misleading the public?
Hayden: You are gonna have to make a judgement on my character!
doh!
Wyden is going over all the contradictions in Hayden’s testimony and statements regarding his spying, warrants, and glaring inconsistencies. Hayden intentionally misleading? Why should we trust him?
Hayden: you’re just going to have to be a judge of my character. He’s trying to be very careful because of the diff between open and closed sessions. He’s blowing alot of hot air….
cbl -
I wasn’t saying I was buying the argument the intercepts were justified, just that it looks like the adminstration and telecos have something they can put before the court showing their “good faith.” Get the wrong judge and case goes bye-bye.
Sophist, Hurley – Crooks and Liars is back up. Ziaspace is a web-hosting outfit, according to their website. If they’re C&L’s host, then a server failure would route you to them.
new thread – new comments
Prof Foland – I put my GC cap on in thinking about your question.
I beleive the answer is yes, shareholders can sue for the company’s failing to disclose the material risk that they were taking actions that exposed the company to potentially billions of dollars of liability by violating privacy laws. Whether they win?
There is an interesting article on CNET (you can link to it from Rawstory) claiming a potential out for ATT:
Some legal experts say that AT&T may be off the hook if former Attorney General John Ashcroft, who was in office at the time the NSA program began, provided a letter of certification. (Other officials, including the deputy attorney general and state attorneys general, also are authorized to write these letters.)
“If the certification exists, AT&T is in pretty good shape,” said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center and co-author of a book on information privacy law.
What is really interesting about it is that if the Qwest version of events are true – that they asked for something, really anything, in writing, and the gov’t wouldn’t provide them with one – then why did ATT get a letter and not Qwest? And as much, if the gov’t provided ATT a letter, then the gov’t knew that any authority it had for the info dumps was through complying with existing laws.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a shareholder suit – maybe Milberg Weiss (one of the largest shareholder class action firms), who are presently under investigation by the DoJ for its alleged behavior in past suits, wouldn’t mind taking this up as “revenge”
Rayne at 154 — I swear, she would live on yogurt if we would let her. We only have her eating Stonyfield Farm organic Yo Baby, so probiotics oughtn’t be an issue. Yesterday was a “lotsa fruit” day, so it might just be an imbalance. Things are slightly better at the moment. (Thank god!)
Thanks for the confirmation Cujo359, kind of thought it was a hosting issue, after my initial frenzied check to see if they had been hacked lead me to their hosting company. ;-p
I’ve been a sys-admin a few years, the reflex to expect the worst has become ingrained. Only a couple of times this sort of thing has happened has it actually ‘been’ a hack, in my experience, yet I still, and a few other sys admins I’ve worked with, still do the ‘we’ve been hacked’ thing.
It became an ‘in joke’ at one hosting company I’ve worked for, since it tends to be people’s first reaction when a site does something funny, even those of us who should know better. Whenever something ‘bad’ happened, the various staff would poke their heads up, prairie dogging, giggling in false hysteria, “We’ve been hacked.”
In spite of this experience, I still have that same reaction. But then, its kind of my job to ‘find out what happened’, so you have to consider the worst, and start there.
The live blogging investigation leads to false alarm editorializing though, my bad.
lhp 143 – it does still soar though, right? *g*
May I ask a housekeeping question?
Regarding C&L’s down time this morning: What’s the difference between “routine maintenance” of a web site and being hacked? I ask this in all sincerity. And if the site was “hacked,” as some are claiming, what does that mean?
Okay, I guess not.
MzNicky
I don’t know the answer to your question, but I bet if you go to the newest thread someone can answer it for you