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	<title>Comments on: To Rubber Stamp Is to Weaken Democracy</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/</link>
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		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-107269</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 15:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-107269</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Maybe they need a copy of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097794400X/sr=8-1/qid=1145986446/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4270197-3681460?_encoding=UTF8%22%3EHow%20Would%20a%20Patriot%20Act?%20Defending%20American%20Values%20from%20a%20President%20Run%20Amok%20%3C/a%3E%3Cimg%20xsrc=%22http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir/103-4270197-3681460?t=firedoglake-20&quot;&gt;Greenwald’s&lt;/a&gt; book, too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe they need a copy of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097794400X/sr=8-1/qid=1145986446/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4270197-3681460?_encoding=UTF8%22%3EHow%20Would%20a%20Patriot%20Act?%20Defending%20American%20Values%20from%20a%20President%20Run%20Amok%20%3C/a%3E%3Cimg%20xsrc=%22http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir/103-4270197-3681460?t=firedoglake-20">Greenwald’s</a> book, too.</p>
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		<title>By: cynic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-107077</link>
		<dc:creator>cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 07:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Peter:&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you, thank you, thank you.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter:<br />
Thank you, thank you, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106676</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 00:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;History will record in infamy, the names of those republican committee chairmen in the senate, who placed their party above the constitution, or as their party leader characterized the constitution,   “just a god damned piece of paper”. They took his view of the constitution literally, and have shamefully acted accordingly.  When they swore to uphold that “just a god damned piece of paper”,they should not have placed their hand on the bible, but rather it would have been more appropiate to place their hand on a roll of Charmin. At least they could use it afterwards to clean up after “serving” the public weal .&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>History will record in infamy, the names of those republican committee chairmen in the senate, who placed their party above the constitution, or as their party leader characterized the constitution,   “just a god damned piece of paper”. They took his view of the constitution literally, and have shamefully acted accordingly.  When they swore to uphold that “just a god damned piece of paper”,they should not have placed their hand on the bible, but rather it would have been more appropiate to place their hand on a roll of Charmin. At least they could use it afterwards to clean up after “serving” the public weal .</p>
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		<title>By: Peterr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106406</link>
		<dc:creator>Peterr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 21:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106406</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;cynic @103:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;EPU = Evil Parallel Universe, the place to which the posts at the bottom of an old thread go to unravel, once a new thread has started . . . &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;. . . like perhaps this one.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cynic @103:</p>
<p>EPU = Evil Parallel Universe, the place to which the posts at the bottom of an old thread go to unravel, once a new thread has started . . . </p>
<p>. . . like perhaps this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106372</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 21:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106372</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;litigatormom @ 1:46 pm (#100) - &lt;i&gt;The government CLAIMS to be collecting this data without knowing the names of the persons whose records their collecting.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unless the phone numbers are somehow randomized, this isn’t possible. There’s something called a “reverse directory” that is pretty easy to obtain (I once got a call from a lawyer who used one to track down one of my neighbors). If the numbers are randomized and the relationship between real and random numbers is erased, which is the only way I can think of to keep this information private, there’s no way of checking out whatever patterns the NSA thinks it might be detecting. There’s the rub.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;But in any event, the idea that you can identify terrorist networks by analyzing calling patterns makes absolutely no sense.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Neither do many things that are actually true. To travel at the speed of light, for instance, you would have to convert all the matter in the universe into energy, and then you’d still not quite be there. Counter-intuitive and crazy, but true. Oh, and all that energy would be added to the mass of your spacecraft.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can’t go by what makes sense, because in mathematics the thing that doesn’t make sense is often what’s true.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My position is that such theories, if they even exist, certainly cannot be proved if what the government says is true, and that I’ve never heard of a theory that could be useful. Perhaps someone has written a defense of this program that explains how it could work, but I certainly haven’t heard of it, and neither have the various blowhards who are defending the NSA programs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>litigatormom @ 1:46 pm (#100) &#8211; <i>The government CLAIMS to be collecting this data without knowing the names of the persons whose records their collecting.</i></p>
<p>Unless the phone numbers are somehow randomized, this isn’t possible. There’s something called a “reverse directory” that is pretty easy to obtain (I once got a call from a lawyer who used one to track down one of my neighbors). If the numbers are randomized and the relationship between real and random numbers is erased, which is the only way I can think of to keep this information private, there’s no way of checking out whatever patterns the NSA thinks it might be detecting. There’s the rub.</p>
<p><i>But in any event, the idea that you can identify terrorist networks by analyzing calling patterns makes absolutely no sense.</i></p>
<p>Neither do many things that are actually true. To travel at the speed of light, for instance, you would have to convert all the matter in the universe into energy, and then you’d still not quite be there. Counter-intuitive and crazy, but true. Oh, and all that energy would be added to the mass of your spacecraft.</p>
<p>You can’t go by what makes sense, because in mathematics the thing that doesn’t make sense is often what’s true.</p>
<p>My position is that such theories, if they even exist, certainly cannot be proved if what the government says is true, and that I’ve never heard of a theory that could be useful. Perhaps someone has written a defense of this program that explains how it could work, but I certainly haven’t heard of it, and neither have the various blowhards who are defending the NSA programs.</p>
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		<title>By: cynic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106338</link>
		<dc:creator>cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 20:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Two fer the price of one…then I’ll shut up.&lt;br /&gt;
Suin et all, the point is that they want to be able to stop anyone on the street and say “papers!” (I don’t know the German for it, but it’s close to the English.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2. Jane, Christy, and all the other wonderful posters, includint all the commentators. You are the mainstream media. The so called MSM has become the SRM (State Run Media) with some exceptions, of course, but those are individuals who are apparently tolerated.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two fer the price of one…then I’ll shut up.<br />
Suin et all, the point is that they want to be able to stop anyone on the street and say “papers!” (I don’t know the German for it, but it’s close to the English.)</p>
<p>2. Jane, Christy, and all the other wonderful posters, includint all the commentators. You are the mainstream media. The so called MSM has become the SRM (State Run Media) with some exceptions, of course, but those are individuals who are apparently tolerated.</p>
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		<title>By: cynic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106328</link>
		<dc:creator>cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 20:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;To D.Mason #15 Where I come from, we don’t call it “information.” We call it propaganda, and psychological warfare!&lt;br /&gt;
Just a thought&lt;br /&gt;
Rafe&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To D.Mason #15 Where I come from, we don’t call it “information.” We call it propaganda, and psychological warfare!<br />
Just a thought<br />
Rafe</p>
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		<title>By: cynic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106319</link>
		<dc:creator>cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 20:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m sorry. I’m sure that as the least relevent commentator on this blog, I don’t deserve a translation of this. but WHAT IN THE HELL DOES EPU mean?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thank you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And that wasn’t a criticizim, you all seem to bring up so much more critical points that I do. That was insane jealousy!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m sorry. I’m sure that as the least relevent commentator on this blog, I don’t deserve a translation of this. but WHAT IN THE HELL DOES EPU mean?</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>And that wasn’t a criticizim, you all seem to bring up so much more critical points that I do. That was insane jealousy!</p>
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		<title>By: litigatormom</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106318</link>
		<dc:creator>litigatormom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 20:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with Marc Lord.  There can be no claim, as was made with respect to the NSA’s domestic wiretapping, that the collection of phone records and other calling data is “targetted” narrowly on people who are “known or suspected Al Qaeda.” The government CLAIMS to be collecting this data without knowing the names of the persons whose records their collecting.  According to them, its completely random. (Of course, that could be a lie.)  But in any event, the idea that you can identify terrorist networks by analyzing calling patterns makes absolutely no sense.  Why would you want a field comprising 10 million people or more, if you are looking for a small number of people?  What is it about “terrorist” calling patterns that makes them uniquely identifiable (as opposed to the normal calling patterns of families, friends, co-workers, customers and service providers).  Are there ten million people in this country calling the Middle East every day?  I just don’t get it — unless the purpose of the database is political, law enforcement.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Marc Lord.  There can be no claim, as was made with respect to the NSA’s domestic wiretapping, that the collection of phone records and other calling data is “targetted” narrowly on people who are “known or suspected Al Qaeda.” The government CLAIMS to be collecting this data without knowing the names of the persons whose records their collecting.  According to them, its completely random. (Of course, that could be a lie.)  But in any event, the idea that you can identify terrorist networks by analyzing calling patterns makes absolutely no sense.  Why would you want a field comprising 10 million people or more, if you are looking for a small number of people?  What is it about “terrorist” calling patterns that makes them uniquely identifiable (as opposed to the normal calling patterns of families, friends, co-workers, customers and service providers).  Are there ten million people in this country calling the Middle East every day?  I just don’t get it — unless the purpose of the database is political, law enforcement.</p>
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		<title>By: cynic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106314</link>
		<dc:creator>cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 20:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/16/to-rubber-stamp-is-to-weaken-democracy/#comment-106314</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We have not forgotten this, but the Congress, most of them, seem to. “Power obtains from the people!”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the king has forgotten that, it is up to us to remind him of it. As you know, Christy, there is always a way around bad law in the courtroom. As Nizer used to say “So he told the clerk to strike that from the record, and he balled me out and sustained my opponent’s objection…..but the jury still heard it!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have not forgotten this, but the Congress, most of them, seem to. “Power obtains from the people!”</p>
<p>If the king has forgotten that, it is up to us to remind him of it. As you know, Christy, there is always a way around bad law in the courtroom. As Nizer used to say “So he told the clerk to strike that from the record, and he balled me out and sustained my opponent’s objection…..but the jury still heard it!</p>
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