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	<title>Comments on: At What Price?</title>
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		<title>By: Apoctrack &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The future of our Surveillance Culture</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-114724</link>
		<dc:creator>Apoctrack &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The future of our Surveillance Culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 03:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-114724</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[…] Via the blog Firedoglake Little by little, chip by chip by chip, away from what we ought to be. William Arkin’s Early Warning Blog has a profoundly disturbing post today, regarding the seamless nature of electronic surveillance in today’s intelligence agencies, their capabilities — and the fact that the full price that we may pay for the implementation of these policies is not something that has either been thought through or debated. And that long-term cost is enormous. For all of us. Despite urban legend that NSA surveillance is a news media crusade because the majority of Americans &quot;approve&quot; government surveillance to protect them from terrorists, a new USA Today/Gallup poll finds that almost two-thirds of Americans are concerned that the monitoring may signal other, not-yet-disclosed efforts to gather information on the general public. This is the central question: Are all of these NSA ingestion and digestion programs merely more efficient efforts to apprehend criminals and terrorists in the digital age, or are they the building blocks of a new seamless surveillance culture? The government’s position is that if you are &quot;innocent,&quot; you have nothing to hide. It is a new version of ‘you are either with us or against us.’ Massive monitoring is of course meant to find terrorists; I completely believe that this is not some 1960’s enemies list politically motivated effort. But these post 9/11 programs signal a new and different problem. People of Middle Eastern and South Asian descent and Muslims are potential terrorists, machine selected as &quot;of interest.&quot; […]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] Via the blog Firedoglake Little by little, chip by chip by chip, away from what we ought to be. William Arkin’s Early Warning Blog has a profoundly disturbing post today, regarding the seamless nature of electronic surveillance in today’s intelligence agencies, their capabilities — and the fact that the full price that we may pay for the implementation of these policies is not something that has either been thought through or debated. And that long-term cost is enormous. For all of us. Despite urban legend that NSA surveillance is a news media crusade because the majority of Americans &quot;approve&quot; government surveillance to protect them from terrorists, a new USA Today/Gallup poll finds that almost two-thirds of Americans are concerned that the monitoring may signal other, not-yet-disclosed efforts to gather information on the general public. This is the central question: Are all of these NSA ingestion and digestion programs merely more efficient efforts to apprehend criminals and terrorists in the digital age, or are they the building blocks of a new seamless surveillance culture? The government’s position is that if you are &quot;innocent,&quot; you have nothing to hide. It is a new version of ‘you are either with us or against us.’ Massive monitoring is of course meant to find terrorists; I completely believe that this is not some 1960’s enemies list politically motivated effort. But these post 9/11 programs signal a new and different problem. People of Middle Eastern and South Asian descent and Muslims are potential terrorists, machine selected as &quot;of interest.&quot; […]</p>
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		<title>By: jh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-106539</link>
		<dc:creator>jh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 23:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-106539</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Â´And we need to know that this is being done in a thoughtful and profoundly humble way..Â´&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No you donÂ´t. That standard is impossible to judicially assess, and that is why the 4th amendment is cut in favour of judicial review for warrants, on the basis of probable cause that a crime has been committed. period. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also think that whether americans poll in favour of the 4th amendment or against is a big red herring, and you invest too much energy into accommodating these polls. Consent of the governed is irrelevent to the requirements of the 4th amendment. the Bill of Rights was not intended to protect the majority, but rather, the minority from the majority.  Get it ??&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Â´And we need to know that this is being done in a thoughtful and profoundly humble way..Â´</p>
<p>No you donÂ´t. That standard is impossible to judicially assess, and that is why the 4th amendment is cut in favour of judicial review for warrants, on the basis of probable cause that a crime has been committed. period. </p>
<p>I also think that whether americans poll in favour of the 4th amendment or against is a big red herring, and you invest too much energy into accommodating these polls. Consent of the governed is irrelevent to the requirements of the 4th amendment. the Bill of Rights was not intended to protect the majority, but rather, the minority from the majority.  Get it ??</p>
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		<title>By: felicity smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-106232</link>
		<dc:creator>felicity smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 19:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-106232</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Information is power and if you don’t think the Bushthugs are into power, you’re living on another planet. International or national it makes no difference.  Makes wimps feel important.  What they do with it is completely out of our control and that should terrify all of us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Information is power and if you don’t think the Bushthugs are into power, you’re living on another planet. International or national it makes no difference.  Makes wimps feel important.  What they do with it is completely out of our control and that should terrify all of us.</p>
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		<title>By: shargash</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105930</link>
		<dc:creator>shargash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 15:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105930</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tice is testifying before Congress this week. He claims to have further revelations about unknown NSA spying programs. I think the other shoe is about to drop (bad metaphor, I suppose — the NSA is a centipede, and there are lots more shoes to drop). I just hope we get to hear what it is.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tice is testifying before Congress this week. He claims to have further revelations about unknown NSA spying programs. I think the other shoe is about to drop (bad metaphor, I suppose — the NSA is a centipede, and there are lots more shoes to drop). I just hope we get to hear what it is.</p>
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		<title>By: mommybrain</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105887</link>
		<dc:creator>mommybrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 14:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105887</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christy,&lt;br /&gt;
this post moved me to tears.  There’s been no public discourse about any of the changes we’ve faced in the last 6 years.  They just stole it from us. Thanks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christy,<br />
this post moved me to tears.  There’s been no public discourse about any of the changes we’ve faced in the last 6 years.  They just stole it from us. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: looseheadprop</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105815</link>
		<dc:creator>looseheadprop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 13:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105815</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christy&lt;br /&gt;
I know I am deep in the EPU zone, But this was a great post.&lt;br /&gt;
Well done.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christy<br />
I know I am deep in the EPU zone, But this was a great post.<br />
Well done.</p>
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		<title>By: Sofistic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105809</link>
		<dc:creator>Sofistic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 13:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105809</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Every breath you take&lt;br /&gt;
Every move you make&lt;br /&gt;
Every bond you break&lt;br /&gt;
Every step you take&lt;br /&gt;
Ill be watching you&lt;br /&gt;
- The Police&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every breath you take<br />
Every move you make<br />
Every bond you break<br />
Every step you take<br />
Ill be watching you<br />
- The Police</p>
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		<title>By: Podkopayeva</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105752</link>
		<dc:creator>Podkopayeva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 09:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105752</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Didn’t see the speech, someone on Rigorous Intuition EZBoard said that the main purpose was to introduce National ID cards.  Did anyone notice that.  Maybe will get around to reading junior’s speech…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Has anyone heard anything of just how many Blackwater mercenaries the bush regime has doing policing duties in the American Gulf (or in Iraq for that matter) and if a contract for even more Blackwater or other mercs has been ratified?  Or is that another Security Secret?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn’t see the speech, someone on Rigorous Intuition EZBoard said that the main purpose was to introduce National ID cards.  Did anyone notice that.  Maybe will get around to reading junior’s speech…</p>
<p>Has anyone heard anything of just how many Blackwater mercenaries the bush regime has doing policing duties in the American Gulf (or in Iraq for that matter) and if a contract for even more Blackwater or other mercs has been ratified?  Or is that another Security Secret?</p>
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		<title>By: The Oracle</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105730</link>
		<dc:creator>The Oracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 06:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105730</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“I completely believe that this is not some 1960â€™s enemies list politically motivated effort.” (William Arkin)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Newsweek&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;June 6 issue - The bitter debate about John Bolton’s nomination to the United Nations may have called unwelcome attention to the spying practices of the National Security Agency. Bolton told Congress last month that he asked the NSA for the names of Americans in raw intel reports. NSA rules prohibit the agency from spying on Americans; if electronic eavesdroppers inadvertently pick up American names, the NSA is supposed to black them out before forwarding reports to other agencies. But analysts and policymakers can make written requests to the NSA for U.S. names, which the State Department says Bolton did 10 times since 2001.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Senate Foreign Relations Committee asked for more information about Bolton’s requests, but the administration refused, leading to last week’s vote to delay Bolton’s nomination. Meanwhile, the Senate intelligence committee’s chairman, Pat Roberts, and its top Democrat, Jay Rockefeller, got a closed-door briefing on Bolton’s NSA dealings from the deputy intel czar, Gen. Michael Hayden. The senators agreed Bolton’s initial NSA requests for U.S. names were legit. But the normally collegial Roberts and Rockefeller couldn’t agree on whether Bolton handled the names appropriately once he received them. In dueling letters made public, the senators aired their differences. Senator Roberts argued that Democrats called unnecessary attention to intel “sources and methods” by raising Bolton’s NSA dealings publicly. Rockefeller complained that Bolton sought out a State Department official whose name was supplied by the NSA “to congratulate him”â€”for unspecified reasonsâ€”which Rockefeller said was “not in keeping” with Bolton’s request for the uncensored NSA report. Roberts said this charge was ill founded.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;â€”Mark Hosenball”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wouldn’t put anything past the Bush Nixonians. I bet other Bush administration officials, in addition to Bolton, requested unredacted raw NSA intel reports, especially people in Dick Cheney’s office. Odds are many State Department officials under Colin Powell were monitored by the Bush Nixonians, primarily during the lead-up to the war in Iraq. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obviously, Mr. Arkin hasn’t heard of the busy Bush loyalists purging federal departments of any “enemies” of the neo-conservative Bush doctrine. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Democrats. Moderate Republicans. All are on the Bush/Cheney “enemies list.” They are only using the “leaks” issue to facilitate their continuing purges of anyone suspected of caring more for our democracy than the Bush neo-con agenda.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“I completely believe that this is not some 1960â€™s enemies list politically motivated effort.” (William Arkin)</p>
<p>“Newsweek</p>
<p>June 6 issue &#8211; The bitter debate about John Bolton’s nomination to the United Nations may have called unwelcome attention to the spying practices of the National Security Agency. Bolton told Congress last month that he asked the NSA for the names of Americans in raw intel reports. NSA rules prohibit the agency from spying on Americans; if electronic eavesdroppers inadvertently pick up American names, the NSA is supposed to black them out before forwarding reports to other agencies. But analysts and policymakers can make written requests to the NSA for U.S. names, which the State Department says Bolton did 10 times since 2001.</p>
<p>The Senate Foreign Relations Committee asked for more information about Bolton’s requests, but the administration refused, leading to last week’s vote to delay Bolton’s nomination. Meanwhile, the Senate intelligence committee’s chairman, Pat Roberts, and its top Democrat, Jay Rockefeller, got a closed-door briefing on Bolton’s NSA dealings from the deputy intel czar, Gen. Michael Hayden. The senators agreed Bolton’s initial NSA requests for U.S. names were legit. But the normally collegial Roberts and Rockefeller couldn’t agree on whether Bolton handled the names appropriately once he received them. In dueling letters made public, the senators aired their differences. Senator Roberts argued that Democrats called unnecessary attention to intel “sources and methods” by raising Bolton’s NSA dealings publicly. Rockefeller complained that Bolton sought out a State Department official whose name was supplied by the NSA “to congratulate him”â€”for unspecified reasonsâ€”which Rockefeller said was “not in keeping” with Bolton’s request for the uncensored NSA report. Roberts said this charge was ill founded.</p>
<p>â€”Mark Hosenball”</p>
<p>I wouldn’t put anything past the Bush Nixonians. I bet other Bush administration officials, in addition to Bolton, requested unredacted raw NSA intel reports, especially people in Dick Cheney’s office. Odds are many State Department officials under Colin Powell were monitored by the Bush Nixonians, primarily during the lead-up to the war in Iraq. </p>
<p>Obviously, Mr. Arkin hasn’t heard of the busy Bush loyalists purging federal departments of any “enemies” of the neo-conservative Bush doctrine. </p>
<p>Democrats. Moderate Republicans. All are on the Bush/Cheney “enemies list.” They are only using the “leaks” issue to facilitate their continuing purges of anyone suspected of caring more for our democracy than the Bush neo-con agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Unterhausen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105658</link>
		<dc:creator>Unterhausen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 04:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/15/at-what-price/#comment-105658</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Stalin rounded up 1/3 of the citizens of Leningrad.  Safe to say that approximately zero of those people were a threat to their country.  And I doubt that being a Stalin supporter was much protection.  The wingnuts have just as much to be afraid of here as any of us.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The profiling of Muslims bothers the heck out of me.  How many Muslim-Americans came her to escape the theocratic injustices of their country?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stalin rounded up 1/3 of the citizens of Leningrad.  Safe to say that approximately zero of those people were a threat to their country.  And I doubt that being a Stalin supporter was much protection.  The wingnuts have just as much to be afraid of here as any of us.</p>
<p>The profiling of Muslims bothers the heck out of me.  How many Muslim-Americans came her to escape the theocratic injustices of their country?</p>
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