(Today we'll be discussing Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus by Rick Perlstein. We'll be reading Part 2 for the following week when Rick himself will be joining us -- JH)
I grew up in a very rightwing household. My father was born in 1922 and has never voted for a Democrat, including Roosevelt in 1944 at the height of WWII. I recently came across a letter from my mother to her parents in 1960 in which she lamented about "that Mr Kennedy" stealing the election. Although we lived in many places, they were California Republicans --- the home of both Nixon and Reagan. (Both of those presidents used the Southern Strategy to get elected, but they weren't of the southern hierarchy that makes up the GOP today.) This was arch-conservatism of the old school.
Of all the politicians my Dad admired over the years (and there were actually precious few --- he's got a good radar for phonies) there was only one he truly respected: Barry Goldwater. This was his kind of guy --- a straight talker, completely open about his beliefs, unsanctimonious, a man's man without unnecessary polish or attitude. And he was as conservative as they came, just like my dad --- an anti-communist to the core, a strong believer in the use of military power and a fundamental belief in self-reliance (even if he, like my father, fudged the details.) These were people who never signed on to the New Deal and at the time Goldwater ran for president, there were very few liberal establishment types who believed such people even existed.
My parents were members of the Goldwater cult of 1964 --- and they gave me a taste of what it was like to be in the political minority as as a child when my third grade teacher had an election day event and the folks sent me to school festooned in Goldwater buttons in the year that Lyndon Johnson won in a landslide. There was only one other Goldwater kid in my class, the rest were dressed in Johnson gear (including cool cowboy hats) and there we were in our lonely little GOP corner feeling like our families must be from Mars. Perhaps that's why I became a Democrat at a very early age. ( Perhaps it's also why I love this book.)
There were, in fact, many people in this country who were energized and radicalized by Barry Goldwater's quixotic campaign, and more importantly his message, and what happened in that year set the table for the conservative revolution and the Republican political dominance of the next 40 years. His followers loved him and his message formed the heart of modern conservatism --- at least until its devil's pact with the rightwing Christianists took over. (And, of course, Goldwater conservatism was almost totally full of shit too, in its own way.) It's important for progressives to understand how and why they did it --- and even more importantly, to understand the way they were perceived at the time by the powers that be and how they coped with that perception.
Perlstein's book about that campaign and the forces that created it reads like a dream, bringing you into that period as if it were yesterday. The corniness of the 60's isn't something people remember so much now that the era has turned into a haze of nostalgic pot smoke. But there was always this other side --- an earnest, peppy atmosphere in the midst of cold war paranoia that Goldwater and his followers inhabited. Perlstein has a genuine insight into this time and these people, and an affectionate respect too, which you cannot help but feel as well when you see the kewl kidz and the big money boyz and the movers and shakers of their day treat them like fools and children.
In the book, Goldwater himself is revealed to be what Joe Klein and David Broder today would like to call "authentic" and that "authenticity" (some would call it bullheadedness) led to one of the most wildly mismanaged and often hilarious campaigns in history. He did it his way and lost in a historic landslide. But in the beginning, before that awful day in November 1963, as Goldwater was showing himself to be the up and comer against establishment candidates Rockefeller or Scranton, the political establishment struggled to figure out how to deal with phenomenon of wildly cheering young crowds who were following Goldwater everywhere he went:
Perlstein explains:
As early as his 1922 book, Public Opinion, Walter Lippmann had come to believe that the world was so complex that political decisions would best be left to a specialized class of experts. Three years later the Scopes "monkey trial" confirmed his conviction that a public uninstructed to expert opinion would succumb to the tyranny of the majority --- the very worst tyranny of all. Ideologically, the columnist vacillated from decade to decade, sometimes coming out liberal in foreign affairs and conservative in domestic, sometimes vice versa. But always, always, his thinking betrayed a constant: that he and his fellow pundits ---- Hindi for "wise men," a title first given to him by an admiring Henry Luce ---- were the nation's best defense against the terror of the mob.
[....]
That was the subject of Robert Penn Warren's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel All The Kings Men (1946): the story of a rootless man (named Burden) who heals his alienation by filing himself with devotion for a charismatic strongman modeled after Louisiana governor Huey Long, then frees himself over the course of the story from what he increasingly realizes in an existential horror. Warren had Burden exclaim, "There is nothing like the roar of the crowd when it swells up, all of a sudden at the same time, out of the thing which is in every man in the crowd but is not himself."
[...]
The American two-party system, it was thought, was a sublime bulwark against just such dangers. "each party is like some huge bazaar," wrote the sociologist Daniel Bell, "with hundreds of hucksters clamoring for attention." To win party leadership, the successful huckster must be bargainer, splitting most issues down the middle --- and as long as that was the case, extremists like Huey Long could never be more than a single yelping voice among the teeming throng. So it was that Walter Lippmann wrote in August that Goldwater's candidacy "strikes at the heart of the American party system." So it was that faced with the spectacle of a stadium of youth chanting Barry Goldwater's name, Lippman had but two choices: predict Goldwater's imminent movement to the ideological center, or brand him a fascist in the making.
...he chose to retreat into the cocoon of theory rather than record the evidence of his own senses: Goldwater, he reported, was becoming a moderate. "It is interesting to watch him, and comforting to think that the system is working so well." Lemminglike, others rushed to confirm the master. Pay attention to a "fascinating political biological process," The New Republic's columnist TRB instructed readers, "like watching a polliwog turn into a frog."
The journalists didn't consider Goldwater's test-ban vote, or his correction in the congressional record to revise a passage giving the mistaken impression that he had denounced tjhe radical right, or, indeed, the day after Lippman's pronunciamiento, a major speech Goldwater made on the Senate floor reaffirming his conviction that "profits are the surest sign of responsible behavior" --- or that he was only becoming more popular in the event... Like Lippman, many liberals simply denied facts that seemed too unlikely to countenance. At a party celebrating the opening of a press liaison office in D.C., the AP's top political analyst, James Marley, sniffed disdainfully over his cocktail that he polls showing Goldwater's overwhelming popularity over Rockefeller simply couldn't be true. (p 233, 234)
Plus ca change, eh? The Adam Nagourneys and Joe Kleins and David Broders of their day just refused to believe what they saw with their own eyes --- a grassroots movement made up of real, live ordinary citizens throwing all their energies into politics and following a man who by all accounts stood against what the mandarins called the political mainstream. The establishment refused to acknowledge the rise of the right. Indeed, many people still fail to see that the energy of the 60's was not a one sided "make love not war" anti-establishment movement. This was happening too --- and I would submit that its influence has been no less earth shaking than the New Left scaring the hell out of the straights in 1968. It's all part of the same political sweep that began with this odd duck of a candidate who refused to play by the rules and ended up making political history.
BTW: Is everyone aware that James Carville has just produced a remake of "All The King's Men?"
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Fitz!
But what happened to Roger’s post? Server migration weirdness?
Hey what just happened to Roger Ailes?
Tried to read comments to his post, gave me a “Fatal Error” message and “poof!”
Fitz!
Am I super baked or was there a roger ailes post just up here, that I read, and now it’s gone? replaced by the equally cute digby?
I only saw the book salon post with the cowboy picture.
Think this is because two guest posters went on at the same time. It has happened before, that one of them was pulled for later reposting. Shoot, I had the fitz on that one.
Thanks so much, Digby, that’s a superb review.
(The Roger Ailes post will reappear after the book discussion. As with last week, I’ll ask that people keep their comments on this particular thread to the topic of the book; those who want to discuss other things are invited to go to the previous thread here.)
Hello, everyone, Digby, and thanks to Jane for hosting a discussion on this book, which is a marvelous read. I’m not finished yet, but I’m loving it.
In the book, Goldwater himself is revealed to be what Joe Klein and David Broder today would like to call “authentic” and that “authenticity” (some would call it bullheadedness) led to one of the most wildly mismanaged and often hilarious campaigns in history. .
Great paragraph, Digby. I have a much older brother who was all for Goldwater for this very reason. (By the way, he ended up in politics.) We’ve had many a discussion on Goldwater and the era. Many people don’t appreciate Goldwater, the phenom, not to mention the rise of the Republican machine, which was in place during JFK.
I did not grow up in a right-wing household — though I learn with horror from Pearlstein’s book that I grew up within an hour’s drive of the city in which the John Birch Society was founded, Indianapolis. (My sister remembers the billboard near City Hall, which read something like: “If you don’t like niggers and kikes, the John Birch Society is for you.”
This is one of the many “OMG moments” in Pearlstein’s wonderful book. The one that first made me slap my forehead and say “Oh My God!” is on 114, where Robert Welch, the John Birch founder, takes his book to — you guessed it — Regnery.
I’ve always that the ascendance of the the hard right (to be generous) under Bush’s rule was kinda like that scene in Alien where the alien bursts out of Kane’s stomach, but Perlstein shows us the entire gestation period–and even humanizes the alien. To an extent.
Of course, since I grew up in a liberal household, I would think these guys are alien…
Wow Digby. You just figured something out that has been bugging me for a long time. My mother is a rabid wingnut. I didn’t know this until the late 80’s when she “suddenly” developed a Rush Limbaugh Laura Schlesinger (I lived in LA then) habit. Couldn’t figure it out. Have never figured it out - since our family has never been religious (my mother is still not a fundamentalist x-tian) or in any way socially conservative.
But this brought bac memories. I remember that Johnson-Goldwater election. I was 7 years old, and my mother was one of those “young people” (she would’ve been 31) who just adored Goldwater. I never ever got that she was part of a movement. Never knew it existed - and of course, by the time I became a pot-smoking teenager on birth control, Goldwater was just a joke. Or so we thought then.
Now I am going to go back and read your post again.
A confession. I haven’t finished Before The Storm yet. This is a huge, dense, chewy book. That’s a good thing, but there’s only so much I can comment on today. ;)
Leave us not forget that late in his life, Goldwater disavowed much of what he earlier stood for, or at least how it was interpreted by the radical Christian right, which he correctly saw as out to destroy the Republicans from within.
In the end, he came to represent the contrarian, libertarian wing of his party, which probably its only defensible element these days. But where are the defenders — lecturing at Bob Jones University?
My dad was a big Goldwater republican too, and in Massachusetts at the time that was no small thing. By the time the ‘68 convention came around he was in the Rockefeller camp and I’m not quite sure how that happened but I seem to remember something about “Rockefeller will be honest because he’s too rich to steal.” I would like to think Dad would retract that thought if he were still around.
If your only real knowledge of the 60s is that handed down by popular culture (as mine, I admit, by and large is) the notion that youth politics was dominated by hippies and anti-war protestors is quite pervasive. I was quite shocked to see the size of conservative student groups in the early 60s relative to those in SDS (I can’t find the page quote right now but it was something like 25,000 to 250). That certainly caused a revamp of my thinking.
Yes, Goldwater was authentic, all right. He was authentically extreme, too.
John McCain took Goldwater’s seat, you know. He’s much, much more slick, however. He’s selling his “authenticity” to the mandarins first.
I was a 7-year old in rural Georgia in 1964. I distinctly remember being told that we were for Goldwater because Johnson would integrate the schools. (Actually it was phrased somewhat differently, as I’m sure you can imagine.)
I suppose that Goldwater gained a lot of support in the South for precisely that reason. The beginnings of the South’s embrace of the GOP?
Digby, thank you for a compelling post. Goldwater carried a strange fascination for some, but I am old enough to remember his willingness to bomb the USSR in the 60’s.
My mom’s family are Illinois Republicans, in fact Dutch Reagan saved my aunt from drowning when he was a lifeguard.
Being a Republican for them meant taking care of oneself and one’s community instead of looking to the government for help. Although in case of a huge natural disaster of course government help was expected; how things have changed. Just regular middle class people, real Christians instead of the imposters you find leading the party now.
I had hoped to participate in this discussion but the new paperback copy I ordered through an Amazon reseller 2 weeks ago has not arrived yet… oh well
In the 1960s I was in my twenties and vaguely liberal - this book will be interesting history. Since 1970 I have been intensely political and always been “well informed” on world and national affairs…
One of the joys of Perlstein’s book is in , what Digby pointed out, image “authenticity. In the case of Goldwater you had a charismatic man who was packaged as that most American of icons; the American cowboy. The fact that he was actually the wealthy scion, who happened to be half-Jewish, of a department store chain never really entered into the equation. In fact, Goldwater was more cowboy than dilettante; a horseback riding, gun-toting son of the west. Excerpts from this blueprint were later used effectively with Ronald Reagan who wasn’t a cowboy, but played one on TV and in the movies. Add to that, the Reagan ranch, the horseback riding, and the brush-cutting, and the image carries forward.
Jump forward a few years and we see a less “authentic” version featuring George W. Bush, the preppy from Texas who has the requisite ranch (Rancho Borracho), the boots , and again with the brush cutting. Unfortunately for his image-makers he is afraid of horses, so they are forced to substitute a white American truck for the traditional hero’s white stallion.
This is defining “authenticity” down.
goldwater was reagan’s “john the baptist”. he came “out of the wilderness”. the first sign. i didn’t consider voting for him. compared to nixon, though, he was the real deal. i may be wrong, but i think he would be disgusted by what is going on now in the republican party and what the republican congress has done, to say nothing of what Peabrain and his controllers have done.
Great Book review Digby. It does exactly what a good review should do, make me want to read a book I might otherwise not have even glanced at.
Perlstein does a wonderful job of setting the scene and explaining how conservatives thought of the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s. I’m beginning to understand where they’re coming from.
My family went through extremely hard times in the depression and 40’s, so to read that the people who were doing ok then hated the New Deal beccause it was a threat to their way of life was interesting. They didn’t care that the New Deal helped millions, only how it affected them.
So basically, my view of conservatives as selfish is unchanged.
I think the “authenticity” label is actually a code word for the image of John Wayne’s America. I think deconstructing that word, as you suggest, Digby, through your mentioning of McCain, is the game.
One of the other things I found fascinating was the victim/martyr/beleagured minority self-image that has characterized the modern conservative movement since its inception. But rather than get demoralized by that notion (as so often seems to happen on the left) it really fuels them. The image of people like Manion sitting there into the wee hours of the night cranking away at a mimeograph machine is much like the warbloggers banging away at their keyboards.
I know you’ve commented before Digby on the bookend nature of this movement — just as Perlstein’s book documents the beginnings, so now we’re watching it go to seed (intellectually most certainly, and politically with any luck). The National Review has been midwife to it all along, and the vigorous arguments of Buckley et. al. have been replaced by a bunch of lazy, third-rate nepotistic hires.
There’s something in that.
I question the assertion that Goldwater can be said to be “authentic.” (Though it all depends on what the meaning of the word “authentic” is.) The SCLM is preparing us for a Man-on-a-White-Horse scenario with McCain using the exact same storyline.
Consider this passage from Pearlstein (126):
I’m not saying that Goldwater is a hypocrite; nothing so simple. Rather, it seems that his lack of awareness of how he “became Goldwater” is so deep is to be almost pathological.
Somewhat like the wingers who made it to the middle class on the strength of the GI Bill, and then started railing about government handouts.
And somewhat like the states who voted for Bush, and also turn out to be net winners in the struggle for the taxpayer’s largesse, complaining about big government while raking in the subsidies….
Not sure how to translate this perception, if correct, into a winning political argument, though. Perhaps others can help me with that…
What I don’t get about “authenticity” is why the media decided that some people are “authentic” - McCain, Bush etc- while others like Kerry and Gore are not.
I thought McCain going down to liberty university would finally maybe give the press corps pause- but the guy tells people at Liberty U. we should all be more “respectful” of other people’s opinions and both on Meet the Press and This Week they were fawning all over him again. I really don’t get it.
Lambert 9 — didn’t you guys do a great post about the Regnery family a while back?
Digby 14 — There’s that odd moment on p. 84 when Perlstein says of Goldwater, “Almost alone among successful politicians, he took slights personally.” I have a feeling McCain takes them quite personally too and just does a very good job of covering for it. On a personal level he’s supposed to be quite an asshole. It may turn out to be his achilles heel.
Lambert 24 — “it seems that his lack of awareness of how he “became Goldwater†is so deep is to be almost pathological.”
That is incredibly odd, isn’t it? There was quite a Chauncy Gardener streak in him.
actually knew some Peace Corps folks who voted for Goldwater b/c they felt he was could be trusted to do exactly what he said he would do, versus LBJ who in their minds, said one thing and did another - jeesh, they grew up and turned out ok
and Digby, thanks for joining us again.
“But there was always this other side — an earnest, peppy atmosphere in the midst of cold war paranoia that Goldwater and his followers inhabited.”
spot on !
Goldwater pioneered fear-based suburban politics. His use of direct mail, or rather, his supporters’ use of direct mail led, to the New Right’s success in the mid to late 1970s. He introduced all sorts of wingnut ideas that are now mainstream. His base was a minority of the country - suburbs - that was growing very rapidly in population, economic power, and cultural reach. The parallels to today are obvious; the internet and the blue state culture dominate the youth and are directly responsible for the technologically oriented part of our economy.
We even have our own direct mail alternative media stream - the blogs and the internet. Goldwater had a vision for an illiberal America based on walls, fantasy, and hypocrisy, and he was the first to articulate it. We have a vision too, but it hasn’t been articulated yet by any politician, though Wellstone and Dean came closest.
Oh and my favorite phrase so far — Scott Reston’s description in the New York Times of students conservatives as “young fogies.”
I’m using that one.
p 231
“Almost everybody in Washington has violent views about it pro-or con, wrote Scotty Reston of Goldwater’s front runner status for the nomination, “except Barry himself.” Mary McGrory followed Goldwater back to Washington as he ducked in at the Chevy Chase Women’s Republican Club for an off the cuff Q&A: One of the ladies asked about that awful Bobby Kennedy, and Goldwater responded by speaking about the attorney general with touching affection. McGrory recalled how Jack Kennedy behaved at a similar stage in his campaign: spouting statistics, attacking carefully chosen enemies and puffing all the right friends, quoting dead greeks, never cracking a joke lest he remind the voters how young he was. “Senator Goldwater doesn’t strain at all,” she marvelled. “He is entirely himself.”
My, oh My, the comfortable man vs the stiff. Where have we heard that before?
Two names that stood out to me were Brent Bozell and Phyllis Schlafly. I had no idea either started in politics quite that long ago. And neither one has given up.
Jane, that’s such a good comparison of Manion and the basement dwelling warbloggers.
Hello. I am about one-third way through the book and it is an incredibly dense, almost encyclopedic book about the who’s who in bringing the neocon world to us today. And IMO the book should have been called “history is prologue.”
Name after name, group after group, word after word, it is like reading today’s news. I have only general impressions:
the idea that they would run a conservative democrat against a more conservative republican and let the people choose between 2 similar ideas — back in the 60’s that must have been rather novel;
also the idea to start a new group for each new idea with one person and a mail drop seems to be in vogue;
also the republican idea to push out the moderates and stack a convention with radical college republicans being run ruthlessly seems familiar;
every page sounds soooo familiar. I lost track of the countless names and wished for a bibliography rather than just an index. I needed flashcards with who’s who to read subsequent chapters but it is enlightening. I just keep reading but have to put it down out of frustration.
Another theme of the book is that the wedge issues that so polarize us today started to be driven in the 1960 election (though probably you have to go back to the 3/5 of a man compromise in the Constitution for the Mother of All Wedge Issues). Pearlstein writes about the day after MLK was arrested in Atlanta for his first sit-in:
Origins of the Southern Strategy right there.
(And so much for Goldwater’s “authenticity,”BTW)
Digby 30 — and they sent the woman to do it. Shades of that Ole 60 Grit bitch confab you always quote where they take down Clinton for being girly and prop up Commander Codpiece. The messaging hasn’t gotten much more sophisticated, only the delivery system.
GrandmaJ — also how they would go to a convention and fan out in a diamond shape, a la the Stalinists, to make their numbers seem larger than they were when they would clap and cheer.
Before reading the book, my public knowledge of Goldwater was that he was an earnest republican who disliked where his party had gone.
But he was a true blue ‘hate the government while soaking up its handouts’ type of rich guy. And never saw the contradiction. People around him were maipulating words even back then.
I think p.315 says so much. Talking about Hess, a “former professional gunsmith.” It’s very Bush, a model for G.W. That “Goldwater’s choice of a bunch of hip-shooting cowboys to run his campaign was practically the message of the campaign.”
The “Arizona mafia” completes the political picture.
Jane: you callow youth, you! the SDS’ers, the hippies, and the larger number of idealistic war protesters were definitely a small group. they got a lot of press/media coverage which create the impression of something bigger. they pushed the right buttons. i think a lot of what is in people’s memories is the rollout into popular culture, the seventies basically, but by then, especially after nixon fell, the political passion was long diffused and it became “oh well…. let’s get stoned.” meanwhile the right wing continued to drive on, building.
I haven’t read the book -I didn’t realize it was out of print. (I will never blow off FDL customer service again! -something came in the e-mail about how to get it but I didn’t pay attention.)
So I just have a few questions.
1. Does the book look into the reason for BG’s authenticity? Was he supposed to authentic at the time? (IMHO, in the US authenticity has more to do with pose of being part of US self-reliant individualistic cowboy mythos that anything authentic. How was BG more authentic that LBJ? In any real sense LBJ was authentic authetntic. Real authentic authentic is not good marketing tool sense it is liable to have an unpleasant side -as in LBJ’s vulgar scatalogical and sexual vulgarity, and truly squalid womanizing). Reagan’s and Bush’s authenticity totally manufactured. And I think Goldwater always had a very strong libertarian side that would not have gone well with NR cultural conservatism. That true? If so, that could not have been part of the Goldwater “authentic” package, if it was a PR packag.
2. What is sense of people after reading the book of the relationship between dedicated grass roots and big money backing. Goldwater may have been grassroots. But was Reagan his progeny in that sense? Seems to me I read Reagan was a project of rightwing GE corporate public propaganda campaign. Where would the Goldwater grassroots dedication gone if it had not been for big money backing. I have read that in the background was a very expensive corporate rightwing PR campaign (maybe growing out of Ike’s cold war propaganda machine?).
Jsne:
Re lambert 9:
Yes, farmer did one of his famous slash and burn, take no prisoners research jobs on the Regnery family.
Great description of the book, Digby. I read Pearlstein’s book when it came out 5 years ago, and it was a real eye opener. Pearlstein maes two extremely valuable contributions. First, his book lays out the modern conservative movement from conception through adulthood, including vignettes of all the fathers, mothers, aunts, and uncles of the movement. For that reason alone, the book is indispensible as a “family tree” of modern conservativism.
Second, as Digby mentions, Pearlstein explains (in a way I had never seen before) that the spirit of the 1960s wasn’t confined to the left, as today’s conventional wisdom assumes. The modern conservative movement is another child of the 1960s.
Lambert 24/Jane 27 … I think that’s something all politicians are probably prone to. The clear implication of Perlstein’s book is that all these reactionary feelings and forces — along with all that right-wing money — were building the whole time, waiting for the right moment and the right face.
Goldwater, to a large extent, just happened to be the face. How does someone balance in their mind just being a front man selected to play a role — but a role that demands endless assertions of one’s own morality and authenticity? Probably through lots of denial about the role-playing part.
That’s especially true when the front man becomes President.
Goldwater, John Birchers, oh how everyone who pretended to the Eastern Establishment in the 60s laughed…
But nobody was laughing anymore once Nixon and then George Wallace rolled around.
oh and The OtherWA @21,
probably mangling it and can’t rememeber who said it, but there’s a wonderful quote out there that conservative thought is the elaborate justification of selfishness
Digby’s tale of being one of two Goldwater kids, mirrors an experience I enjoyed just 8 years later, when myself and my best friend at the time were the only McGovern supporters in the entire class.
Before we voted, the class had a “debate” and I represented McGovern. I fear that I was unable to persuade any of my second grade classmates to vote against their parents, not that I was.
Thanks for the memories.
Kent
grandma J #32:
This is the essence of a movement. These people signed on for the long haul. And they just kept on trucking. They lived through Goldwaters defeat and Nixon’s disgrace. Things became markedly better when the big money donors got on board and created a paying political industry. (I suspect Rick will be writing about that development in the future.) Ronnie, of course, was nirvana.
But yes, you read about that pimply faced kid Morton Blackwell doing dirty tricks at the 64 convention — and he’s still at it. He’s the guy who came up with those “purple heart” band-aids at the 2004 GOP Nuremburg Rally.
Digby,
We must be about the same age. I remember being in 3rd grade and trying to explain to my best friend why Goldwater was not either racist!–he was just, um, for a strategy that took a little more time. I think that’s how it went.
My parents were married the year before the Depression and I think my Dad had been a fan of FDR, but thereafter was very much a GOP person. He loved Goldwater. All the rest of my school friends had pictures in their houses of Jesus and JFK…not us.
I’m not of the view that Goldwater “became” Goldwater. I think, as in the case of many wealthy families, there is a belief that the world is theirs for the taking, and take they do.
Goldwater had the conservative principles in his heart (whether they are wrong or right depends on your views) that appealed to the very conservative hardcore in this country. But he also had that heroic image that the somewhat left-of-hard-right-wing thinks is the American ideal. And they still do.
One of the events that Perlstein mentions that caught my eye, was early-career Goldwater flying himself to campaign stops and descending from his plane to the adoring crowds like some god from the sky. For you kids, this was before Mission Accomplished banners were invented…
The description of Stephen Shadegg sounds a bit like Rove. “A man fascinated by the space between deception and detection.” Maybe less ruthless than Rove (I haven’t finished the book, so I could be wrong about that.) Find the Indifferent voters and manipulate their emotions so they vote for a certain candidate, even if the candidate’s philosophy is completely different than the voter’s.
Two names that stood out to me were Brent Bozell and Phyllis Schlafly.
A little too much information about Schafly, if you ask me….
Lambert 33 — Oh and RE Goldwater’s “authenticity,” he had no interest in Walter Reuther and his idealistic politicized unions; he was much more fond of Hoffa even after he admitted receiving bribes before McClellan’s “Rackets” committee.
“I would rather have Hoffa stealing my money,” he declared, “than Reuther stealing my freedom.”
His rich man resentment of unions an union organizers betrayed the inherent selfish, me-first priorities of his world view.
It seems hard to imagine now that there were Republicans who stood up for civil rights and genuinely felt a responsibility toward African American voters who had voted for them since the time of Lincoln. That was an extremely brief historical moment; the GOP did not put up much of a struggle against the Southern Strategy.
fahrender #38: I agree. As one who started working for the Dems in Jr H and HS, in the ruins of McGovern, the left was not very big. And also, there were (from my viewpoint) callow libertarian, silly anarchist, incoherent Trotskyite/anarchist/libertarian/durg addled mistures, and even cynical style reactionary tendancies in my older boomer gen siblings. A very mixed bag.
That kind of made showing up to work for local Dems fun, since there were not many of us, and we pretty much did what we wanted.
Back in the 60’s with Brent Bozell and William Buckley lighting the fire in the east (were there any dems of the era that thought long term as they did?) worte pamphlets and speeches. If I am remebering, isn’t Conscience of a Conservative a pamphlet of a Goldwater speech written by … a guy named White?
Note: I made notes while reading but now can’t find them. Wish I had kids or a dog at home to blame their loss on… Also, please forgive all typos for this ‘consversation.’ Normally I would correct, but it takes up too much ‘thread’..
tbogg 47 — It was very Lindberg. I think you read Philip Roth’s Plot Against America, didn’t you? That’s how Lindberg ran his imaginary presidential campaign in the book. Selling the “flyboy” imagery.
Digby!
the Birchers really humped for Goldwater … Veep Danny Quayle was raised in a Bircher household in Indiana but he’s now living in Arizona
wsgpc 39–
I can speak to the “the relationship between dedicated grass roots and big money backing” somewhat.
One of my (many, many) “OMG moments” was on page 11 (back home in Indiana, sigh…)
Pearlstein makes the point many times that the “family owned manufacturers” were essential to boostrapping what we have come to call the VRWC. (Now, of course, the VRWC funding comes from winger billionaires, and globalization has hollowed out the manufacturers.
But I love the Robotype machine as a metaphor.
Fast forward 20 years, and you have the Republican direct mail operations.
Fast forward 40 years, and you have winger bloggers–becuase, nota bene the key feature of the Robotype from the standpoint of information architecture is that it is one way and top down. Just like the right wing blogosphere today, with its mysterious ability to change “the line” almost as efficiently as a loyalist to Stalin.
TheOtherWa — I also find Shadegg a predecessor to Rove it would seem. His description of truth to be relative (I think that was his word) is chilling. And the whole idea of going after the indifferent voter who can be persuaded by a simple ‘emotional’ issue and vote against his own best interests is enlightening. That is Rove’s whole strategy. And as we speek, he is looking for just those voters. And, unfortunately I know some.
I was a college student at a very conservative Church of Christ college (I was followed there by Ken Starr) when Goldwater ran. I still believe that if he (the ‘War’ candidate) had won rather than Johnson (the ‘Peace’ candidate), the subsequent build up and ugly quaqmire in Viet Nam would not have happened. Congress would have been too skeptical to have ever swallowed the Gulf of Tonkin nonsense if it had been proposed by Goldwater.
Still, I recognize that Goldwater’s positions were simplistic and that his vision of conservatism was stylized to the point of characature, but like many others I responded positively to the MAN. Whatever else can be said of him, he was honest and direct (probably disqualifying him for president).
Just as he later repudiated the War and came out in support of gay rights, I suspect that he would be apalled at the travesty that ‘conservative’ politicians present today. Whatever else he was, a strict ideologue he was not. Facts and human judgment always seemed to trump conservative ideology wherever there was a mismatch. I would put Barry up against anyone in the Bush administration as a real human being. Unlike the current crop of so called conservatives, Goldwater was willing to admit when he was wrong.
One might also say that the Rove handbook has taken a page from the Johnson handbook (pg 483):
That was the technique by which Johnson was holding crowds in the palm of his hand: convincing them that he was the true conservative in the race - the calmer of fears, the bringer of order, the preserver of peace; the father tucking a vulnerable electorate in after banishing the monsters from under the bed with a bedtime story.
Thus our current Bedwetter Nation…
Jane 50:
One of our family stories is about my grandfather (on my mother’s side) collecting his food and silverware from a buffet, sitting down, saying I’ve got mine and starting to eat, though none of the rest of us had anything….
He was, of course, a small manufacturer (the plant long since bought up and destroyed), hated Social Security, and all the rest. Though I loved him dearly, what an attitude.
#39:
Does the book look into the reason for BG’s authenticity? Was he supposed to authentic at the time? (IMHO, in the US authenticity has more to do with pose of being part of US self-reliant individualistic cowboy mythos that anything authentic. How was BG more authentic that LBJ? In any real sense LBJ was authentic authetntic. Real authentic authentic is not good marketing tool sense it is liable to have an unpleasant side -as in LBJ’s vulgar scatalogical and sexual vulgarity, and truly squalid womanizing). Reagan’s and Bush’s authenticity totally manufactured. And I think Goldwater always had a very strong libertarian side that would not have gone well with NR cultural conservatism. That true? If so, that could not have been part of the Goldwater “authentic†package, if it was a PR packag.
“Authenticity” is something the beltway elite bestow on candidates they find appealing. no politician is authentic in the way the kewl kidz mean it. It’s their construct, not reality. (This is why Joe Klein is even more stupid than most. He’s written a whole book about this dumb insider bullshit.)
Lippman knew that Goldwater was a far right extremist (and he believed what he said, while filled with the inconsistencies that all alleged “free market” extremists are filled with.) But he couldn’t face the idea that the two party system in which he had so much faith could produce an extreme candidate for president. So, he ignored the evidence and said Goldwater was “evolving.”
Has anyone read Jon Chait’s article about McCain only pretending to be a far right wingnut because he has to and that makes him even more loveably authentic than he otherwise would be? See what you want to see.
This is a Beltway mentality disease. These candidates may or may not be “authentic” but the insiders and opinion leaders like to pretend that some are and some aren’t — and yes, “authentic” often translates into some sort of sophomoric Hollywood heroism.
They all thought he was terrific, although the screaming kids made them very nervous. (Remember Dean?) It’s hard to know what they would have done if it hadn’t happened, but Kennedy’s assassination changed the whole storyline. Suddenly, the far right looked awfully dangerous. And just like *that* the storyline changed on old Barry. He was no longer loveably authentic. He was someone who couldn’t possibly win the GOP nomination:
Page 252:
“In republican circles that fancied themselves polite, the conclusion was drawn quietly. The press, less courtly, didn’t let a decent interval pass: Lee Harvey Oswald had cut down barry Goldwater;s chances as surely as he hhad John kennedy’s life. Dixie would never reject one of their own for president in the voting booth. And without the Eastern establishment as his opponent, it was thought, Goldwater lost much of his appeal. No, said the Herald tribune’s Robert Novak, the new front-runner would have to be “a proper Republican candidate” — a moderate who could win the Big Six. Gallup confirmed the trend: Goldwater’s approval rating since the assassination was down sixteen points. And so, one by one, proper — moderate — Republicans began floating to the fore.”
Once again, as always, they were wrong.
Digby 45:
Morton Blackwell! OMG!!!
Dan Quayles maternal grandfather; Eugene Pulliam.
There ya go…
One of the things that strikes me about Before the Storm is what it reveals about the nature of the conservative movement, particularly its soft white underbelly: its nascent extremism.
The close proximity of old-style fascists to the McCarthyites and Birchers has, of course, been thoroughly documented. What makes Perlstein so valuable is that he documents their formative role in the modern conservative movement.
This makes the pathological nature of the conservative movement a great deal clearer, I think.
So much of the right-wing pathology is constituted of its appeal, by virtue of this latent extremism, to the really ugly side of human nature. This produces all kinds of bizarre manifestations: the hooker parties, the drug addictions, and most of all, the mania for power at all costs.
The right predicates its image on being moral and upright, representing a kind of American traditionalism, but its underlying nature is a festering cloaca of senescent amorality, and its ends are nothing short of a reactionary revolution.
This understanding is critical for the rest of us — centrists and progressives alike — to adequately and effectively confront the movement. Knowing that extremism is their soft white underbelly, I think it makes sense to strike there.
Talk about it openly. Start drawing attention to it. Expose it.
Also, speaking of the unions, how the republicans bought up and used unions back then, while just the other night right here we had a post about how union leaders do not speak for their memebers any more than D.C. dems speak for us. History IS prologue..
Oh and I would like to express my appreciation for Perlstein’s skills as a dramatist. He sets the stage perfectly for Eisenhower to waltz out, cranky and disgarded, wto give his farewell address in 1961 as he spoke about the century’s great wars and of the Cold War:
It was one of those Oracle-at-Delphi moments, the truth of which would certainly take decades to become apparent and only after it came to fruition.
tbogg 59:
Re “Bedwetter nation”
Pearlstein also makes the point that an official climate of fear–this was fallout shelter time–enables even more extreme forms of fear-mongering to flourish.
Sound familiar?
Lambert,
I find myself currently ensconsed within 50 miles (an hour drive from Indianapolis) and I had no Idea that the John Birch society started there.
I also, until your mention of the billboard had any idea that they were so reactionary.
Must have been started by dead enders from the halcyon days of Klan Power in Indiana.
Just curious, did you grow up in b-town?
Kent
David 64:
You write:
I’ve found the phrase “Winger Projection Syndrome” very useful in this regard. All the “senescent amorality” is projected onto others, and, as Jane points out, they frame their goals of “reactionary revolution” as a just response by the victimized.
Projection, projection, projection…
Not sure how to find a cure. Other than “name it and claim it.”
Well, I haven’t yet read this book…but I’m wondering, IF I’m correct in sensing that Goldwater set off a conservative movement that, over many years, “re-tooled” the “R” structure, and yielded many “R” team presidents….are we seeing the same thing, but on the opposite end, with this progressive democratic grassroots movement of today? Is this the early stages of where Goldwater and his movement was, oh, say, circa 1962ish?
Ghostman
TBogg: Eugene Pulliam (the grandpa of Danny Quayle) and publisher of “The Arizona Republic” endorsed LBJ in 1964 but in 1946 had put Goldwater into politics as a reform candidate! The Pulliams also owned the Indpls Star and it also endorsed LBJ. The Star used to be a tad to the right of the Volkisches Beobacher. It’s now a Gannett paper…
One of the things that you learn from the book is the pure dedication that the rightwing extremists bring to their work. Like Chuck Colson they would walk over their grandmothers to get what they want. Whereas it seems to me that many liberals (and I don’t like using “progressive’ which is a word used by those who let others dictate to them that “liberal” is a dirty word) think that they can win because they are so darn earnest.
See: gunfight, bringing a knife to
Until there is a truly vicious liberal wing out there to do the dirty work (where are our Swiftboaters?) the conservatives will have the upper hand.
Ghostman - Conscience of a Conservative was published in 1960 by Manion and Schlafly. Schlafly’s public rise began around 1964, I believe, with Human Events magazine (yeah, that one) publishing around 80,000 copies before J.F.K. was gone.
tbogg:
++ on “liberal” Next time I fly into Dallas I’m having a “Proud Liberal” t-shirt made specially.
David Neiwert 64 — This produces all kinds of bizarre manifestations: the hooker parties, the drug addictions, and most of all, the mania for power at all costs.
I thought Buckley’s comment following the Sharon Conference (of young conservatives) was intteresting:
They can tart it up in any high-flown language they want, but this is the pig they are contantly lipsticking.
where are ‘our’ swiftboaters? Most of the known dems have been bought out and ideals hallowed out by money, i.e. Murdoch holding a fundraiser for Hillary.
Media, union ldeadership, D.C. dems — All have problems. But we do have people starting to stand up, like Jane and Christy, Dean, Feingold and many others who are shouting out. If our liberal pushback is similar to where the neocons were in the 60’s, we have a loooong path to recovery.
“Apetite [lust] for power…”
It’s like the Republicans are the Id of American Politics.
What’s a poor Superego to do?
Ms. Marsh: hi! But, I’m not understanding your comment?
Ghostman
Digby,
What a fascinating post (as usual)! I too think that we are of the same age range - My Father was a career civil servant in D.C. and I can recall a subtle remark he made about how all government agencies in the Washington district were REQUIRED to post a picture of LBJ in the work area (with the cost of said photo charged to their budget)and in 1964 Goldwater came in and promised to end said practice if he was elected -needless to say the photos and budget deductions continued until, surprise, Nixon put an end to this.
#70
I hope so. Say what you will about the Republicans (and I say plenty) they have dedication and committment. They didn’t give a damn what people said, they just pressed on, full speed ahead.
#72 Tbogg:
I think the internet game is where liberals will play hardball. I doubt that we’re going to find swiftboaters ready to sign on, but there seem to be plenty who are willing to play very, very tough.
I suspect we might use some other means — like scathing humor and ridicule for instance. Do you know anything about that?
This is the single best book on movement politics I have read.
Tbogg,
“Until there is a truly vicious liberal wing out there to do the dirty work (where are our Swiftboaters?) the conservatives will have the upper hand.”
I hope we don’t have to become them to beat them.Fight,yes,sell my soul,no.
Goldwater started to build the wingnut direct mail base.
Dean started to build the internet base of liberals.
I see humor as a great weapon(J.C.Christan,patriot)
“What was so striking in the students who met at Sharon is their appetite for power.â€
They can tart it up in any high-flown language they want, but this is the pig they are contantly lipsticking.
Amen. That was the one frustration I kept having in reading Rick’s detailed narration, as a student of current events rather than history: The repeated urge to yell, “But they’re FAKING it!”
Sorry, Ghostman, being cryptic, my fault. Conscience of a Conservative was Goldwater’s book that made him and set off a firestorm that led to so many followers, including Hillary Clinton, let me add. It was an important moment in the Republican movement. Human Events even had outreach at that time, which was a start of a lot of Rep. rags.
Sorry, this is slightly OT, but I was struck by the many childhood recollections of Goldwater posted here.
I live in DC, and during the 2000 election fiasco my daily commute took me right past the VP’s (i.e., Gore’s) home. Every evening for almost 2 weeks, among the many protesters, was a young boy, maybe 8 years old, there with his father. I was so struck by him, his young, sweet, cherub-like face, so screwed with hate and rage as he yelled, night after night, “Bush, Bush, Bush.”
I think this goes to Niewart’s post @ 64, the right-wing pathology and the way the instill this hatred in their children at such a young age. This pathology, now of course, is magnified by the home-schooling movement. (And yes, I realize not all home-schoolers are crazed right-wingers.)
tbogg 72 — Until there is a truly vicious liberal wing out there to do the dirty work (where are our Swiftboaters?) the conservatives will have the upper hand.
Reporting for duty…*
Also I might add until we start supporting our thinkers (and we actually have them, as opposed to wingnut-welfare subsidized regurgitators) we are going to be at a disadvantage. Which is why I’d like to say thank you, personally, to everyone who showed up today to discuss the book, to everyone who bought it or borrowed it or checked it out of the library and read it or just read through the thread here and who goes to work on Monday morning and talks about it at the water cooler.
Thanks to you all. Rick’s new book, the sequel to Before the Storm, will be coming out soon, and supporting works like this is critical to the construction of a LIBERAL infrastructure (happy, T?)
*Should note — swift boaters are by definition liars, and there is really no need.
The union angle in the book is interesting too. Growing up, one of my best friends dad was a steelworker and he made darn good money (because of the union) for that time. They had the bigger house, the nicer cars, they better vacations. They had it all. And as they became better off, they became more conservative (gotta keep what is ours!). In many ways, the sucess of the unions created the Reagan Republicans. Once the union negotaited better pay got them into the upper middle class, they were determined to stay there.
One of my other friends (this was when I was about twenty) was a grandson from the maternal side of the Pulliam family. It was at their house that I met Barry Goldwater. This part of the family was the more Democratic wing: the father was a former Kennedy Cabinet member.
One last connection to Goldwater. Goldwater had a very tight circle of loyalists who became quite wealthy through their affliation to him. Kleindienst was one. Robert Mardian was another. Both were wedged into the Nixon Administration by Goldwater. We all know about Kleindienst, and Mardian eventually became one of the Watergate 7. About 15 years ago I worked for Robert Mardian and he remained absolutely a Goldwater man every day of his life. If I asked him about Nixon, her would always refer to him as “that lying sonuvabitch”.
Goddam, I’ve been around too many Republicans.
Speaking of viciousness…
‘m the guy that Google-bombed Bush Mandate, starting on “election” day in 2004…
“Brighten the corner where you are,” say I.
As well as “every little bit helps.”
Seriously, though, I think a thousand, ten thousand, a hundred thousand little pinpricks like this ended up deflating the Bush balloon everywhere outside the Beltway.
And when we disintermediate Pravda on the Potomac and Izvestia on the Hudson, then you’ll see some proper action. (This is why “network neutrality” is absolutely crucial to our future success, BTW. Network neutrality enables us to own our press, our Robotype machine.
The conservative movement will regroup and carry on. Let’s think about how that is going to happen.
Elements of their coalition will become disgusted with one another. Libertarians, theocons who were hoping for a lot more in the 6 year Republican reign, small and medium business who are not profiting from the war, will go hide under a blanket and try to figure out what happened. Then they will re-form a different creature, but the question is who will be in the new group?
Will the true believer/anti big government folks take power? Will anti brown people ideology work so much better when the economy tanks and they need a scapegoat? You can rest assured that Kristol and other theorists are working on the new plan.
Scaring people with bird flu takes a hit, NYT article. Hm. Will go fetch a linky.
Digby #79
I suspect we might use some other means — like scathing humor and ridicule for instance. Do you know anything about that?
Not really. I a fuckin’ sweetheart from what I hear.
Unsurpisingly Digby!
Purple band-aids at the RNC was truly the mark of pure evil, IMO.
Althought Goldwater lost by a landslide the Republics came back in the mid-term election to win almost 50 seats in the House. And correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Goldwater view abortion as a personal choice?
84, Ms. Marsh: ok, got it now. Thanks. And, re: Hillary….whoa. I never knew that.
Ghostman
TBOGG:
In many ways, the sucess of the unions created the Reagan Republicans. Once the union negotaited better pay got them into the upper middle class, they were determined to stay there.
Yes, and the government took up some of the union’s functions with workplace rules and safety etc. Workers took those protections for granted.
The Republicans have managed to dismantle quite a bit of that (and the unions) over the last 25 years and the working man is falling behind now as could have ben predicted. Time for another union movement and progressive federal workplace legislation.
Maybe some of this is always going to be two steps forward one step back.
Maybe the October surprise can’t be the fizzled out avian flu.
Let’s see if the tech newbie can do this with a laptop, wifi, and shaky html skills. Fingers crossed.
Comment on “liberal infrastructure.”
Pearlstein (116 et seq) has a series of interesting little vignettes that makes it clear that the Birch Society was a mirror image of the communist party:
OK, classic cellular organization, check.
And then comes a classic winger Black-is-White-ism from Birch “Founder” Welch:
But they were cells, we, the readers, cry.
So, a couple of points for building a liberal infrastructure:
1. We must never, never, NEVER succumb to the corrupt and false forms of language the wingers use. If we really want to be the reality-based community, we just can’t indulge in the Black-is-Whitism that the wingers engage in. (This is why the blogosphere, with its emphasis on clear, if sometimes polemic, language is so crucial to is. We are evolving a language in which it is possible to speak the truth.
2. We can’t emulate the cellular structure that the Communists and the wingers used. In each case, the structure seized power and could not govern. I leave it to the political scientists to figure out why, but the precedents are clear.
Swopa 83 — Are they faking it?
Alterman linked to some study early on in my blogging career and it was about the lack of connectivity between the right and left hemispheres of the brain in wingnuts. I don’t remember exactly how they explained it, maybe I pasted my own interpretation onto it but the way I recall it was that this caused them to see the world in black vs. white, us vs. them, good vs. evil, and there was the suggestion that they were physically incapable of appreciating nuance, subtlety or the gray areas of thinking. Which could contribute to both a) lack of self-awareness, and b) the inability to deal with problems in anything other than a ham-fisted, all-or-nothing fashion that incapacitated them in the face of complex problems. Great for highly emotinal PR campaigns, not so good when it comes to good governance and mediating the interests of a diverse populace.
I struggle with that all the time — stupid or craven? It’s usually a bit of both, and varies in degree to the particular wingnut.
I am glad the conversation has coming around to wedge politics and playing “dirty”. I was having this conversation elsewhere today.
Prime example/opportunity - We have been discussing how the NRA crowd would go bonkers knowing that the gov’t was watching it.
We know that they must be watching gun-owners. After all, that makes more sense than monitoring every phone call. Yet, noone on the left is making this the issue it should be.
If the tables were turned, we’d hear from every angle how “the gov’t was coming to take away our guns”
We’re not truthy enough.
egregious: your html skills worked! very elegant! but keep life simple — just copy-and-paste the target URL into your comment. I’ve done complex Congressional and campaign websites - you don’t have to be so clever here…
Bird Flu Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05.....mp;emc=rss
Sorry NYT thing was OT. Promised link in prev post.
The scion of the aforementioned normal middle class real Christian Republicans voted in Ohio for Kerry, a tough one for her. A childhood friend says her Dad voted Democratic for the first time in his life, and it nearly killed him. We wonder how the Dems didn’t win in Ohio. Sarcasm alert.
People like these are baffled by what happened to the conservative party. Mom says she would like to be in the Party of the Reasonable.
Jane 96:
Sounds like the self-similarity of the wingnut function.
Lambert 95 — That story in the book (p. 104) about Marvin Liebman perfectly illustrates your point — a Communist in high school who became “the right’s PT Barnum” after meeting Elinor Lipper, who described her 11 years in the Siberian slave labor camp. Liebman felt “personally responsible” and flipped. Whittaker Chambers…John Dos Passos…Hitchens…the danger of extremists is always present.
Still curious when the reactionary right started getting financed by big business. Did “creative destruction” caused by reactionary grass roots create an opening for reactionary big money to replace establishment Republican organization? Or was reactionary grassroots product of a constant, continuing effort by reactionary big business. Wasn’t Reagan a General Electric spokesman, going all over country giving The Speech at this very same time?
While looking for this book in bookstore couple of days ago, I came across another that gave history of corporate/government cold war propaganda machine, which Eisenhower funded to the max. I wonder how the big bucks backing for Goldwater/Reagan style conservatives is related to that?
Or does the Goldwater book make a good case that grassroots money funded movement conservatism from the beginning?
In college in the ’60’s, having grown up in a family who made it comfortably through the Depression (and were still referring to FDR as ‘that man’), I concluded that “the hallmark of a conservative is fear.” Forty years later, it seems more true than ever.
TBogg and Lambert Strether: both of you sound like displaced Hoosiers - where did you grow up?
lambert #95:
Oh, the commie connection is explicit:
“With his hair greased back a la Joe McCarthy, [Weyrich] warned his enemies: ‘We are different from previous generations of conservatives. We are no longer working to preserve the status quo. We are radicals, working to overturn the present power structure of the country. . .’
“‘My view is Maoist,’ [Weyrich] says. ‘I believe you have to control the countryside and then the capital will eventually fall.’” [The New Republic, 9/27/97]
It worked. And then they had to govern.
These people believed that the reds were going to take over the world and in some ways believed their system was superior. Why wouldn’t they? They respect authoritarianism. That’s why communism captured their imagination both as an enemy and a model.
It is a symptom of how messed up the publishing industry is that this is out of print. You’d think sales for college classes alone would justify keeping it in print. Hopefully, it will be reprinted when his new book comes out.
http://rickperlstein.org
The website has the first chapter and links to a bunch of his articles. He also was blogging on the Village Voice site, but I’m afraid that won’t happen again with the New Times ownership. Perhaps he can blog here.
All the King’s Men will be released in September (there is a brief story on it in this week’s Entertainment Weekly). 9-22 I see at the site which has a trailer up as well as an email list people can sign up for.
http://www.sonypictures.com/mo.....index.html
Goldwater was famous for saying, “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
Um, I grew up somewhere in Indiana…
wespgc: major industrialists have always financed ultra-rightwing entities - mainly for their anti-union activities. The DuPonts/GM were simply gawdawful - read about the Smedley Butler attempted Fascist coup against Roosevelt. The S.O.B.s never give up…
lest we forget: Ronald Reagan was the major speaker for “Democrats for Goldwater” in 1964. He soon switched his registration…
Tbogg–
Not just authoritarian, but authoritarian cultists. The “cult” aspect really kicks in with this book, doesn’t it? The Kool-Aid that you can’t undrink (though maybe Goldwater in his last years did, to some extent).
Authoritarian cultists propagating through a cellular organizational structure.
We have to get rid of all three of those aspects ….
… this caused them to see the world in black vs. white, us vs. them, good vs. evil
And, notably, to believe that picking a side (i.e., good) means ignoring facts that make your side look wrong.
Your point is excellent, Jane; it’s not always clear whether the faking is conscious or not. Either way, it seems to be psychologically necessary.
“Faking it” –
What makes you think, that for a Republican, there is any difference between the fake and the real?
They can’t tell the difference–that’s one reason they can’t govern!
And I grew up six blocks from where I live now in San Diego.
My world is very small.
“I grew up in a very rightwing household. My father was born in 1922 and has never voted for a Democrat, including Roosevelt in 1944 at the height of WWII.”
Digby, thank you so much. Except for my Dad being born in 1926, I could have written that sentence.
When the conservative model worked, it was because people actually took care of the poor, weak, and troubled.
Grandma’s small church took in 3 refugee families from Laos. She was on the board of a nonprofit that helped troubled teenagers. Mom brought into her home a pregnant war refugee and small child from Rwanda, who stayed there for months. A mentally ill friend of the family lived with Mom and Dad for a year to keep her out of the horrible institution.
THAT’S how it’s supposed to work. But not if everybody feels that it’s someone else’s problem.
wesgpc 102 — that is a very good question for Perlstein next week.
Lambert 111/Swopa 112, re: authoritarian cultists — did you see Bobo’s homage to authoritarianism today? It’s kind of shocking when they don’t even try to hide it.
I lived in Indianapolis for nine years. When Dan Quayle came to speak at my high school, I asked him how he could oppose sanctions against South Africa but support money for the contras.
His answer was the Sandinistas were a more repressive regime.
Karl Hess who was Goldwater’s speechwriter (including the extremism line) was a guest-in-residence at the U of Illinois when I went there. He taught a course on the 60s I took with Carl Oglesby who had been president of SDS and coined the term corporate liberalism.
Hess was a libertarian who later joined SDS, worked with the Black Panthers, opposed the Vietnam War, and believed in technology. There is more on him at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hess
I lived in the Dallas area as a boy, 1960 - 1964, and even my inexperienced antennae sensed the weird right-wing miasma. Ex-General of the Army Edwin Walker flew an American flag upside down in his compound, and it was always called a “compound”. The Vietnam War was slowly ramping up, the thought of nuclear confrontation never too far out of mind. Oh my God, the blacks and their allies, successfully upsetting eons of gentlemen’s agreements (1964 – Civil Rights Act). Society as previously understood was disintegrating, hysteria was in the air. We talk of Bush as the master fear-monger, but it goes back to the beginning.
.
60 minutes right now: good labor unions and Dixie Chicks
Lambert, Tbogg, et al.:
Re: the evolving tactics of the Right, I’d like to throw in a footnote that appears in Hofstadter’s original ‘Paranoid Style’ essay in Harper’s (from 1964).
‘Shadegg’ should be a familiar name; his son John is the Congressman from Arizona who said that Kerry voters had mental health problems, among other notable statements.
This is only part of a complex weave, but it represents the point at which the GOP’s current mode of campaigning starts to coalesce into a grand strategy — and the influences right at the beginning are profoundly (and admittedly) anti-democratic and manipulative.
Jane:
Yes, to my shame I spent $4.50 and lugged the times home. What jumped–or maybe crawled, or, still better, oozed out at me was this sentence:
Well!
1. A fine, fine example of “winger walkback.” Poor George. When Bobo heaves him over the side, there’s not much left for him, is there?
2. Translation: Bush can’t govern.
3. Until I you pointed it out, Jane, I hadn’t realized that Bobo’s solution was authoritarianism, that is, the solution to Republicans being unable to govern is for Republicans to rule.
lest we forget the role of the Birchers etc on LBJ — they were fiercely anti-communist and LBJ knew he’d be creamed in politics if he wasn’t determined to win in Vietnam. He knew he couldnt win but he also calculated he could not negotiate and de-escalate with VietCong.
Thanks to all for a interesting and informitive thread.I’ll check in later.
Damn. Yet another book that is so chewy I can’t read but three pages at a time before I must set it down. While Crashing the Gates re-opened the anguish I’ve had about our progressive efforts, Before the Storm re-ignited my ire about the fakery and shallowness of the conservative movement. I’m still working my way through the second half of this tome; I hope my elevating blood pressure doesn’t get the best of me before the last page.
As a Michigander who’s worked in the automotive industry, lived in an automotive town for much of my adult life, the discussion about the early interactions of Goldwater with the UAW and AFL-CIO were extremely gripping. The schism between Republicans and Democrats since the 1930’s has been a pitting of the investor class against the working class — yet the investor class has managed to paint the party of the working class as “elitist” while claiming the working poor for their own. By working poor, though, the Republicans mean only those people who are intensely racist, to the extent they would vote against their personal economic interests to maintain a racial divide. The Reagan Democrats — those who claim to be Democrats but voted for Reagan based on single-issues like guns — were those who could also be peeled away on the race issue. (I’ll point out that the Michigan Militia is overwhelmingly white; there is a relationship between the God-Guns-Gays theme and racism, although the Michigan Militia tend to be the Libertarian-Republican type.)
In the early days of the labor movement, the unions’ rank and file were overwhelmingly white; after southern African-Americans moved north to find work, it was easier to divide labor with racial divisiveness, combined with fear-mongering about communism. It remains decades and generations later a contentious issue here, although most white Michiganders won’t speak of it. The more ethnically diverse the area is, the bluer it votes, and conversely red as it is more rural or more white, making for an extremely divided state. The Republicans have been hammering on this divide since before Reagan; before Reagan, they hammered on the issue of class. This is one of Goldwater’s greatest sins: failing to recognize his silver-spoon life while railing against people who had nothing but their solidarity to preserve their human dignity.
Granted, the unions were corrupted, for the same reasons the unions are unable to address the fundamental challenges that face them; the rank-and-file do not possess the investor class’s sensibility gained by a lifetime of education about the necessity for auditing and internal controls. Once the dues money amassed in quantity, it was an attractive nuisance bound to draw the criminal. Rather than address the root causes of workers’ dissatisfaction, Goldwater and others of his class railed against the workers as if they were all thieves rather than the victims they have been and continue to be.
One of the critical components of union power was their investment in political organizations, one which Perlstein mentions, the Committee on Political Education. But these organizations dried up — not mentioned in at least one book documenting labor in Michigan. The recent break of AFL-CIO was bound up in the issue of politics; should the union concentrate on building membership, or on organizing its political power? The split reflected the inability of the union to navigate this issue, fragmenting both their base and their political power.
I view this as a continuing legacy from the early Goldwater days; the persistent bashing of the unions and peeling away of members remains active, using much of the same language it used in the 50’s. Yet the failing was not all Goldwater or his handlers; Reuther, for all of his brilliant ideas about cooperation between business, labor and government, was unable to develop an effective and competent organization that could articulate his concepts let along realize them.
Andy Stern comes very close to filling Reuther’s shoes, but there is still an element of partnership missing, and it is this gap into which the corporatist right will continue to pour their poison.
Don’t forget, Jane, in his last years Marvin Leibman came out. He was interviewed extensively for “The Advocate,” spoke of his regrets for having dissembled about his sexuality, and most important of all, spoke out against the homophobia of the Right. Were he alive today he would make short work of KAPOS like Mary Cheney.
There’s a whole “alternate history” of gays on the Right, which includes the incomplete forward pass that resulted in Whittaker Chambers turning on Alger Hiss. And there was more than a hint of mint in Goldwater too, I am informed. As for the rest, “festering cloaca of senescent amorality” nails it, Spudboy!
Gavin M 124 — Perlstein actually references that Shadegg quote about “two to three men in a village” in the book:
He also mentions that Welch “mastered the signal vocation of America’s domestic Cold Warriors: compiling, organizing and cross-referencing files — who had beloged to what? who had been where? who knew whom?”
It is quite consciously manipulative. And, as you indicate, not averse to being “all in the family.”
Lambert 125 — I hadn’t realized that Bobo’s solution was authoritarianism, that is, the solution to Republicans being unable to govern is for Republicans to rule.
That is quite profound, Lambert. I didn’t think of it that way, either.
here’s a secret;
there is supposed to be a pendulum that swings to the left and then to the right when it comes to political philosophy in America, neither side is always right, neither side is always wrong.
and neither left nor right policies are always the correct solutions as for all situations…as problems change, the correct solutions will come from differant perspectives, not always the same perspective
the solution of one problem will sometimes cause other problems, these new problems will then have to be addressed and cannot be addressed with more of the same “solutions” that caused the problem in the first place.
and that’s what sets the pendulum to swing in the other direction.
some people don’t understand that they have to change positions in order to move forward and make progress
to stay in power even though the perspective has changed, political “parties” try to convince their constituents that remaining loyal to the party is more important then any of the information which indicates better courses of action…they demonized the other party…and believe it or not, the common man falls for this marketing strategy…very few people are wiling to change parties for the sake of their country…a shame, but true
however be warned;
we cannot let “party loyalty” win out over the proper course of action if our democracy is to survive
when a party becomes too powerfull they will begin to make decisions that are damaging to the country…power corrupts, absolute power corrupts ever more…an all powerfull party will act oposite ideals they are supposed to be promoting
when such a time as that comes, it’s an obligation we have to make sure our country comes before our party.
it’s your patriotic duty, it’s a duty you have to your children who have to live in the world you leave them with
right now, big money is able to buy law…this is true of both republicans and democrats…if the democrats had the same control as republicans do now then big bussiness would be buying law from democrats and a regime change would be in order in that case too. (obviously)
we need first to make sure political contributions are eliminated and big money is not allowed to buy law
second we need to make sure the damage done becuase of those laws that were paid for by big money is reversed….there is only one way to do that, we cannot allow one party to controll all branches of government and we have an obligation to vote accordingly
Lambert @ 98 -
I keep coming back to this -
“2. We can’t emulate the cellular structure that the Communists and the wingers used. In each case, the structure seized power and could not govern.”
I loathe outing myself as the slow kid in the thread, and I’m not advocating a cellular structure, but what will the structure look like ?
and to tear a page from the era discussed, this is a boffo thread Jane.
Taylor,
Wasn’t Hillary a little girl during the time of Goldwater (~12)? The implied guilt of Hillary is akin to criticizing Digby for wearing a Goldwater button when he was a child. Both are unfair and petty.
I’ve always admired the ‘64 ‘Daisy’ ad commissioned by the Johnson committee to paint Goldwater in their chosen color…What a kick to the balls for its time, makes the modern crop of attack ads look ‘French’ by comparison.
;>)
*ilson #112: I assume you meant the “business plot” that Smedley Butler reported. I think by the mid 30s Butler was well on his way to being a socialist, or damn near one.
Jane #120: I will remember my $$ questions. I am an economist! Which reminds me of why I am less cynical about the reactionaries’ motives than you and some others are here. A world view which makes you infallable, gives you an answer for everything is a very seductive, very bracing, dang near addictive thing. And if it has great authority, Holy Revealed or seemingly scientific, that is the free base punch that is irresistable.
I know, because like all vulnerable youths who in a fit of foolishness submit themselves to hardcore economic theory training, the lure of that was certainly apparent to me. In economics you face down the lure of libertarian free-market pseudo-science that explains everything! There but for the grace of some statisticians in the department who took me under their wing, went I. That fits in with the wingers willingness to be a little (in their view) unscrupulous -they are serving a higher truth. I have extensive dealings with this mindset in academic setting. I think the Jeffersonian myth of the 100% self reliant self made man is very seductive and appeals to narcissistic innards that render folks slightly mad. Jefferson didn’t believe it or want others to believe it, but it is like a drug.
I think that explains some of reactionary behavior. I hope my copy of the book comes before next week.
cbl 132 — it is a boffo thread, isn’t it? I can feel my IQ rising.
To Jane and Christy and other FDL poobahs: I hope Brooks’ column discussed this week, unless it is too silly. If one of his more potentially damaging efforts, then would like to have it commented on.
me to me (132) — you just described the premise of Francis Fukuyama’s text, The Great Disruption; that same pendulum swing is not complete, doesn’t not fully address the issues that propel it in any one direction. Hence the continuing challenge of women’s equity in our society; while women managed to obtain many rights they did not previously had, the necessary transition of roles and responsibilities to men from women for women to fully realize their rights did not happen before blowback pushed the pendulum in the other direction (ex. care of children still falls overwhelmingly to women throughout childhood years, to the detriment of women’s economic status and condition).
We are on the cusp of another penulum swing in terms of politics, but we must be more effective and better organized if we are to realize our objectives before the next wave of blowback pushes in the other direction.
jane (#76):
“their appetite for power”….(in other words, fascists). irony of ironies…..
the Daisy ad was very clever. It was aired only once but then got lots of ‘earned media’ (free) with pundits discussing the topic: is Barry Goldwater likely to start a Nuclear War? Yes or No … it certainly was debatable…
DMM(#83)
Aye! There’s the rub….”
Rayne #139,
I’m not a woman so I don’t have appropriate insight. My question to you is, what can we do to make the next “penduluum swing” effective? Is it solely a question of legislation (child care, etc.) or is it more societal? How can we head off some of the likely obstacles from the right?
wesgpc 136 — yes you and I have gone round and round with the craven/stupid discussion before. Your argument for “stupid” is always compelling. I hope you get your book too and remember your question for Rick next week.
And Bobo Brooks — we’ll see. I’ve got Ailes coming up in a few minutes and I need to put Ned Lamont up too but maybe we’ll try something for Late Nite, it was an exceptional column even for him, and I do think he comes down firmly in the “craven” column most of the time.
What I don’t get about “authenticity†is why the media decided that some people are “authentic†- McCain, Bush etc- while others like Kerry and Gore are not.
That should be obvious: Kerry and Gore were Democrats while those who are “authentic” are GOPers. Nuts and idiots are authentic while thinkers are not.
cbl (133), Lambert (98) — Ah, but what is a cellular structure? The Birchers were deliberate in their enforcement, but perhaps cellular structure is organic, something that has more power by virtue of its natural synthesis versus deliberate intervention to shape a structure’s formation.
Open source software development, for example, is highly organic; leaders are those who show up and deliver, not those appointed by a hierarchy or committee. One need only look at several major software companies and their responses to OSS to see that there is power in the organic organization sufficient to threaten traditional business models.
What does OSS look like? Rather a lot like Dean for America did…
If I am understanding you correctly, emptywheel has a lot about this. “How They’re Using Terrorism as an Excuse to Dismantle the Nation-State”
by emptywheel
gg (143) — I think we need to have a very clear idea as to what is negotiable and what is not, during this next swing to the left.
For me it is campaign finance; we must completely disengage the political system from the corporate teat, period. It will be warfare, of that I have no doubt, but we must be prepared to do anything and everything to remove the corrupting influence of corporate money from our democratic process. I would go so far as to say we should be prepared to draft an amendment to the Constitution to relegate the status of corporations to a level firmly below that of citizens. It will be the corporatist upper-most decile that rails against this, but a clear majority of the lower deciles would support this.
The women’s issues will come with time, needing another generation or more to pass…whatever we deem negotiable or non-mission critical, we must be willing to allow to ripen on its own, possibly over decades and generations.
While the GOP and Goldwater’s ilk were ranting about the ‘command and control’ centralized tyranny of communism, they were secretly plotting to use the same exact same techniques as the Soviets to build the Brand New Republican Monster Party we have today with ‘direct mail lists. What hypocrites.
Most modern corporations in America are organized along a same top down ‘command and control’ centralized model dictatorships that NeoConvicts say they loath. Most modern American companies are little versions of the Soviet model. They compete as capitalist entities between themselves but internally are little fascist dictatorships. No democracy ever sees the light of day inside the companies of the Free Enterprise System.
How ironic.
ReThuglican Patriots who live and breath ‘quite consciously manipulative authoritarianism’
Any bets on the ReThugs using the NSA data to create Uber ‘mailing lists’ a la Goldwaterbots that put anything to date to shame?
EDITED BY SITEOWNER
Please remain on topic for book discussions as requested above.
*ilson46201:
Exactly, it was designed to brand the opponent as bellicose, and hence untrustworthy with the ‘football’, without alluding to the dichotomy within; that Johnson would have launched ICBMs for identical provocations, and was not necessarily a more reasonable leader by comparison…In fact, given the confining parameters of MAD, neither would have had much choice in the matter.
Far better to peremptorily define your opponent as the frothing kook, ‘…and make the bastard deny it.’
Perhaps the stark effectiveness of that ad caused some lingering resentment, and a determination to design and use similar tools, such as has been shown in the attack ads of the last few decades…But that’s speculation.
This is one of the most fascinating periods in political history for me. The most interesting aspect is the beginning of the slow, deliberate takeover of the south by the GOP. We weren’t a singular nation then (to be fair, we aren’t now either) and the area of the country where Johnson reigned was an almost completely different island from that of the pre-64 GOP regional base, and yet the two were not all that disimiliar (as we would find out).
I’m from Texas. My grandfather was an episcopalian from California who moved down here and, after marrying my baptist, native Texan grandmother, started one of the first Republican clubs in the state, during a time when a Republican had as much chance of being elected to statewide office as Nelson Mandela has of being named honorary chairperson of the Ku Klux Klan.
The Goldwaterites didn’t succeed in Texas like they did the deep south that year, but they certainly tried. And my grandfather, who got involved in the campaign for Goldwater, told some magnificent stories about their efforts. Suffice to say, a group of people campaigning for republicans in Texas against Lyndon Baines Johnson circa 1964, did not recieve a warm welcome.
In a sense, it was a meeting of two equally reactionary camps, but their hearts & words could find no purchase. The Goldwaterites who came in from out of state were like an alien species, and they were treated as such. They shared many of the same beliefs but the Goldwater people were not of the South. They came with a intellectual,if sometimes contradictory narrative against “Big Government” and “federalsim” and for independence and Christian Nationalism. Their’s was an intellectual tradition that existed for years under the radar of the post-war New Deal liberal consensus. For the south, conservative was merely a reactionary & contradictory temperament, for the Goldwaterites, it was becoming a confident national philosophy.
But Texas took no heed, some of Goldwater’s stuff may have made sense to them in some way, but this was Texas, this was the south, and god dammit LBJ was their man; one of them. And so, for that moment, no consensus was reached. Out of state Goldwaterites clashed, sometimes violently with loyal Texas Yellowdogs; they shouted their slogans in vain as they had obscenities shouted at them by men, women & children alike, objects hurled at them and even hoses turned on them.
One of the members of that riffraff GOP club was a young Tom Craddick, the man who would go on to build the Republican party in Texas.
Lambert #111 –
Authoritarian cultists propagating through a cellular organizational structure.
I think you have this nailed just right. And it’s an important insight, because it gives us a window in how to beat them.
George Seldes once wrote that fascists are incapable of winning wars because they are congenitally incapable of adequately assessing facts on the ground, due to their blinkered ideology. The military kept tailoring its reports to Hitler’s personal delusions rather than making frank assessments, because those who told Hitler what he didn’t want to hear were quickly disposed of.
Not saying the Bushite right is fascist (yet), but the same syndrome is clearly at work with the American right generically, a la their dismissal of the “reality-based” community, as well as the Bush administration’s Iraq war specifically.
Toss in the foundation of “cells,” which makes the movement flexible and mercurial, but also lacking a real center — they’re all about acquiring power. As their ability to obtain the latter becomes limited by the political losses that mount up inevitably, the cellular structure becomes more exposed and more fragile; old coalitions begin to break apart, and the movement loses its cohesiveness.
Witness this dynamic at work in the current immigration debate, for instance.
“What I don’t get about “authenticity†is why the media decided that some people are “authentic†- McCain, Bush etc- while others like Kerry and Gore are not.”
IMO it’s all whole range of tactics, but distilled it’s Rove. Wingnut welfare is the next imo in terms of the next concentric circle. Wingnuts got Judge Bork to hammer Harriet Meiers nomination, but then when Bush destroyed “strict constructionism” with his
monarcyhyperactivist, Presidency, Bork shut up. This wingnut welfare also “seeds” the corporate media with articles written under the imprimatur of the “impartiality” of a think tank funded by Abramoff type scams. This is has been going on for a long time. IMO the third concentric circle is the pressure on the choke point that the corporate media is. Everytime they print anything except wingnut propoganda, they get hammered, by paid political operatives writing LTE and hammering them on talk radio. Kind of a high level summary.This will probably be more relevant in the second part of the discussion when Johnson trounces Goldwater, but…
If you want to see one reason why B.G. lost, go to the website Living Room Candidate, an excellent repository of all the TV ads of presidential campaigns. Johnson’s ads are BRILLIANT - they’re well-made, and they make liberalism look like the only sane choice. Goldwater’s are laughably bad, and involve the elderly hectoring the screen and half-hearted appeals from Eisenhower. Perlstein notes the difference in ad quality, but until you see them for yourself, you don’t really get it. Digby has often made the point that it’s bizarre that Democrats don’t have better ads considering how in bed they are with Hollywood. She’s right, and these old ads are an example of what we need to nowadays to win.
Hey all you FDLers, it’s been great hanging out in your clubhouse this afternoon. Great comments made by all and much food for thought. If you haven’t read BTS, try to get a hold of it. It’s one of the great books about American politics.
I’ll meet you all back here next week when the man himself stops by to talk about the second half of the book.
” “their appetite for powerâ€â€¦.(in other words, fascists). irony of ironies…..”
All politicians & people are pursueing power, thats what politics is. Such a requirement may be neccessary for Fascism, but there are other ingredients involved.
Read Matt Stoller over mt MyDD today for a good essay on power.
A bit of a different perspective. My folks were born in the 40s, and I was born in the early 70s. Dad was in the Army and mom was a housewife. My father has always voted Republican, and my mother has voted Republican since Reagan. My only knowledge of Goldwater growing up was that he used to be a conservative Republican. I went to college on a Goldwater Scholarship, and Goldwater himself (who I didn’t even realize was still alive) came out in favor of gay rights at about that time. (His grandson had just come out to him, I believe.)
I think one of the things that I’m struggling with through this discussion seems to be the changes in terminology that have happened over the past several years. My understanding is that, back in the ’60s, “conservative Republican” used to mean a person who opposed goverment spending on principle and who felt that the government should intrude as little as possible into people’s private lives. Today, it means someone who has increased the national debt by 50%, has never vetoed a spending bill, interferes with a family’s medical decisions, and tracks the phone calls of millions of Americans. These definitions are not compatible with one another.
A similar change has happened with the term “authentic”, which used to be synonymous with “genuine” or “real”. It now means either “charismatic” or “willing (and sometimes actively trying) to piss certain people (usually a minority group) off”. Individuals fitting the former description are almost invariably former TV or movie stars (Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jesse Ventura); those in the latter group are simply good at scapegoating (Bill Clinton demonizing Sister Souljah, John McCain (in a huge miscalculation, which he is now trying to correct) going after the religious right in 2000). Reporters like “authentic” candidates because they usually say something for them to write about. But it is a huge mistake to say that the public craves a candidate who is “authentic” in the original sense of the word. The sad fact of the matter is, the only thing the public hates more than a candidate who blatantly lies to them is a candidate who blatantly tells them the truth. No one’s ever going to get elected by saying that the country is in a hideous amount of debt, our expenses are only going to go up, and the only way we’re going to get out of the hole is to either increase taxes or cut spending. THAT would be truly authentic. And that candidate would lose in a blowout far worse than Goldwater’s.
Back to Goldwater, I’ve never seen any evidence that he pandered to Southern racists quite the way that people do today. My sense is that, had he been in the 2000 South Carolina Republican party primary, he would have said that a state can fly whatever sort of flag it wants, and he would support their right to do so, even if it meant permitting the state to be obnoxiously racist. But I do think that he would have pointed out the obnoxious racism.
What a profound observation that if Republicans cannot govern
they turn to authoritarian rule. Facism ultimately deploys the military
to rule and keep order. Look at what we have now——military
mindset ruling the intelligence apparatus of this country and now the
military proposed to being deployed to keep “secure” the border with
Mexico. This is all preparation for when Iran is taken out. The
paranoia meter in this country is going to go off the scale with the
fears of the Iranian blowback. Bush again saying he’s protecting the nation. I am afraid that what is going to go down with Iran will
obscure everything and bring on the declaration of a national
emergency and perhaps martial law with oil being over $100 a barrel
destablizing the economy. Just what Bushco needs to maintain his
rule. Not that the rationale for war with Iran is impose authoritarian
rule here but that would be the consequence as I see it.
David Neiwert,
If you are still around, I am fascinated by your comments about the right-wing pathology. Have you explored this idea in depth on your blog or elsewhere? I am interested in pursuing this idea further.
Frank Probst (158) — in regard to your comment on Goldwater and racism, I agree that he did not pander openly to Southern racists, but the investor class of the South was overwhelming weighted with racists. He did little to encourage breaching the economic divide that paralleled the racial divide. It is this blindness that makes him so flawed; I cannot sympathize with him.
joseph c @ 155:
One reason is the center/Left’s reticence to engage in, to offer a taut phrase, ‘Riefenstahlisms’, propaganda designed to inflame emotion rather than intellect…A description which might be laid at the door of the ‘64 ‘Daisy’ ad (or the ‘88 ‘Weekend passes’ Republican ad, for a more modern example) with some success.
The Right does not labor under this restriction…after all, when the decision that ‘winning is all that matters’ was made, such ethical niceties became beneath consideration…An issue which might be considered by the center/Left as a litmus test when assessing how determined to pursue victory they are.
Fortuitously, the source material for their attack ads (should a strategy to develop and use them be implemented) is plentiful, at the moment.
“These people believed that the reds were going to take over the world and in some ways believed their system was superior. Why wouldn’t they? They respect authoritarianism. That’s why communism captured their imagination both as an enemy and a model.
109
steve rhodes says:”
I read something Jonathan Chait said on this about how one of te great ironies is that most of the starry-eyed quote-mining devotees of guys like Lenin, Stalin & Mao are now on what we would constitute the Political Right. Oh sure, they didn’t much care for their communistic goals, but they did much admire the ruthless, merciless total war politics they used to to crush their enemies & seize power.
I believe David Brock said in his book “Blinded by the Right” that Grover Norquist has a portrait of Lenin hanging in his home.
I have not read this book (I just finished Crashing the Gate and am halfway throught State of War; American Theocracy comes next) but I will add it to the list, if I can find it. I grew up in the 50s and 60s in a conservative Republican family, but not Goldwater Conservative (although they did vote for him in the general election). I would just note that during that time, we schoolchildren were being taught to duck and cover beneath our desks to protect us from an atomic blast. Fear of Communists was greater, I believe, than fear of terrists now. It will be good to read a historical interpretation of those times. I have enjoyed the discussion,even as I lurked.
David Niewert (#153): The Bush Right NOT fascist yet? Don’t be fooled by the lipstick………
Rayne says:
May 14th, 2006 at 5:30 pm
Frank Probst (158) — in regard to your comment on Goldwater and racism, I agree that he did not pander openly to Southern racists, but the investor class of the South was overwhelming weighted with racists. He did little to encourage breaching the economic divide that paralleled the racial divide. It is this blindness that makes him so flawed; I cannot sympathize with him.
———————————————————-
Hmmm. I wouldn’t say that I sympathize. I just consider him to be a (much) lesser evil that the Republicans we’ve got today.
The thread seems to be winding down (I’m always late to the party.), but another question I’d like to ask: I haven’t seen anything to suggest that Goldwater would have been on board with the latest Republican “This is a Christian nation!” propaganda. (And no, simply being anti-Communist doesn’t count.) Did I miss that?
Phredd:
I have written quite a bit about it. Try this, this and this for starters.
Dustin @ 163:
Right next to the bathtub
;>)
Frank Probst (166) — on that, you and I will heartily agree. Goldwater proved to have limits, being more of a traditional small-government conservative. The neo-cons in power are clearly cut from different cloth.
And while I consider David Neiwert to be the pre-eminent resource on extremism in American culture, whether racism (see his works, Strawberry Days and Death on the Fourth of July) or facism (see his 6+ part blog series on pseudo-fascism), I believe this administration to be fascist, nothing pseudo about it. Goldwater’s personal limits wouldn’t have permitted this reckless and cancerous powergrab.
Frank Probst @ 167:
IMO, the general assumption in that era was that America was unswervingly a ‘Christian nation’, and that religion was neither fit fodder for political debate, nor a litmus test for Heavenly political acceptability…That quaint ’separation of Church and State’ concept, that was quietly put to death when the Right began courting the evangelicals in the post-Nixon 1970’s.
Goldwater had a rather direct opinion of evangelicals such as Falwell:
“Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell’s ass.”
I imagine next week rick can talk about Goldwater in his later years and what he might say today.
On the rove story, I’d be cautious. I read the reader’s copy of Jason Leopold’s memoir and it does not paint a pretty picture of him. Besides, if it is true, we’ll know in a few days.
““In republican circles that fancied themselves polite, the conclusion was drawn quietly. The press, less courtly, didn’t let a decent interval pass: Lee Harvey Oswald had cut down barry Goldwater;s chances as surely as he hhad John kennedy’s life. Dixie would never reject one of their own for president in the voting booth. And without the Eastern establishment as his opponent, it was thought, Goldwater lost much of his appeal. No, said the Herald tribune’s Robert Novak, the new front-runner would have to be “a proper Republican candidate†— a moderate who could win the Big Six. Gallup confirmed the trend: Goldwater’s approval rating since the assassination was down sixteen points. And so, one by one, proper — moderate — Republicans began floating to the fore.â€
Once again, as always, they were wrong.”
? Were they? Perhaps about Dixie because Goldwater took several southern states, but Johnson absolutely crushed Goldwater in the election, you don’t do that without a significant swath of “moderate” republican voters. In fact, a number of states that went for Johnson in 1964, haven’t voted for a Democratic President since.
Rayne says:
May 14th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
I believe this administration to be fascist, nothing pseudo about it. Goldwater’s personal limits wouldn’t have permitted this reckless and cancerous powergrab.
———————————————————-
That’s a huge point, and I agree completely. I think Goldwater is somewhat unfairly tarred as the grandfather of the current Republican party. That may be true up to a point, but I don’t think he would tolerate a lot of the crap that’s going on in Washington today.
“My, oh My, the comfortable man vs the stiff. Where have we heard that before?”
Clinton vs. Bush?
Seriously though, there is nothing especially evil about being a natural campaigner, nor anything especially virtuous about being awkward & stiff.
I was reading “Before the Storm” during the 2004 campaign, along with Lis McGirr’s “Suburban Warriors,” which covers similar terrain and focuses on Orange Count, California, and Richard Hofstadter’s essays in “The Paranoid Style in American Politics.” They were a fascinating read in light of what was transpiring in Howard Dean’s candidacy, and did a lot to shape my thinking about what was happening in the Democratic Party at the time. It led me to think that a Dean candidacy — even if it were to flame out in a general election — would have had the power to transform the Democratic Party. Dean was tapping into a need to reclaim a lost America, much the way Goldwater appealed to a similar right-wing meme in the 1960s. The policy platforms couldn’t have been more different, but the type of energy they inspired were quite similar. Similarly, Dean was tapping into a new form of campaign fundraising and organization via the internet; Goldwater’s era saw the rise of direct mail as a means of party mobilization.
“After the Storm” is a terrific social and political history, yes, and a captivating read to boot. But Perlstein’s book, like McGirr’s and the old Hofstadter essays, also work as a primer on how to build a movement and how to tap into the passion of grass roots activists. Among other things, these books teach that movement political movements with long-term goals sometimes win for losing. Perlstein’s book helped put Dean’s loss in perspective. Kudos to Firedoglake for bringing this invaluable book to the netroots.
Thanks, David. I’ll chew on those meaty pieces.
I’m still trying to wrap words around this, but I could be at it for while so I’m just going to dump. My father-in-law is someone that might have been a Goldwater Republican; he’s hardcore right, very much anti-tax pro-business, and a cowboy at heart, even down to the hat and boots (there are pictures in the house of FIL on horseback as a young man, cowboy-hat included). Not unlike Goldwater, he had family that owned retail businesses to which he was an heir and later ran. He and other family members sold the automotive-related business before it ran into competition from Big Box retailers and global competition. While he has said he would have been comfortable hiring me to run one or more of their stores before they sold them off, he and I do not agree on much in the way of politics; he is as far to the right as I am to the left.
And yet the last year he has had a couple of come-to-Jesus opportunities. First, the multiple births and deaths of great-grandchildren who were unplanned and at-risk from the moment these multiples were conceived, and second, the rapid decline of his wife’s health after multiple major surgeries. He’s had to re-think his opinion about abortion, and re-think Republicans’ mucking with successful social programs like Medicare.
And yet in spite of the rapid barrage of new and steep challenges that threaten his grasp on the privilege he’s always known as a white, male Republican of substance, he’s in denial. He’s clinging firmly to the notion that Republicans are about smaller government and lower taxes; he doesn’t believe they’d sell him and his wife out for campaign monies from Big Pharma and other corporations in which he’s invested his capital for so many years.
I can’t help wondering what he’d take away from Perlstein’s book, if FIL were a reading man…would he see what I see? Probably not. He might even casually think, “Gosh, that Goldwater looks a lot like me, huh?”
Yet I know FIL is disgusted with Bush; the burden I bear is knowing that I have to win this guy’s vote, or at least encourage him to sit this one out. He’s already hoping that they’ll reformulate Medicare D soon; I asked him why he thinks that will happen if the guys that wrote it received enormous campaign donations from Big Pharma. He rolled his eyes and gave me that look again, the kind he gives me when he thinks I’m being a foaming-at-the-mouth irrational liberal…agh.
Digby Darlin’,
I am way older (born in the 40’s) but I too grew up with Republicans (my grampa was the kind of Republican who would have pissed on FDR and my dad voted for Nixon to cancel out my mother’s vote for JFK). I remember the 1964 campaign. Kewanee, a small town in Illinois, was solidly Democratic, but the coutny was Republican. Despite all the bumper stickers saying AUH20, when the Vietnam War went bad, they said don’t blame me I voted for
Goldwater. Alas, Barry would now be considered a mensch, since he supported women’s rights and convinced Nixon to resign.
mmt1949
Perlstein’s Goldwater book was the first political tome I ever read, which I read right after the first campaign I ever worked for. I don’t have the book on me right now, but there was one part that’s been branded in my memory ever since.
Perlstein talks about Welch’s newsletter that he used to send out to the John Birch Soceity members. On the top of each page it said something like:
Multiply yourself! Rip out this page and give it to a friend!
It really stuck with me. The key to building a movement is making sure that as a member of the movement you’re constantly talking to people, bringing new people in, and validating and encouraging those already in the movement.
So, multiply yourself! Send a link to a blog post each day to friends, family, whoever. Ultimately, political power can only be gained with numbers.
Dustin @ 152:
This is one of the most fascinating periods in political history for me. The most interesting aspect is the beginning of the slow, deliberate takeover of the south by the GOP.
The post and comments have triggered a flood of childhood memories for me. My father was an early adopter of the party switch among white southerners, rejecting the civil war/reconstruction-based allegiance with the democratic party for the anti-welfare state, ant-civil rights and anti-communism brand of republicanism embodied by Goldwater.
Not only that, my childhood ophthalmologist was Dr. Lloyd Bailey. I remember sitting in his waiting room, where instead of 6 month old copies of Field and Stream, one could read pamphlets with titles like “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” printed above the symbols of various threats to the nation such as the peace sign and the green oval E that represented the nascent environmental movement.
And every weeknight edition of our local tv news ended with a 90 second editorial by WRAL-TV’s executive vice president of broadcasting, Jesse Helms.
I haven’t read the book, but I’ve always liked this song by the Chad Mitchell Trio, “Barry’s Boys.”
Ugh- tried to block quote the lyrics. Here they are:
We’re the bright young men who want to go back to 1910,
We’re Barry’s Boys.
We’re the kids with a cause: a government like Grandma’s was,
We’re Barry’s boys.
We’re the new kind of youth at your alma mater.
Back to the silver standard and solid Goldwater.
Back to when the poor were poor and rich were rich,
And you felt so damned secure just knowing which were which.
We’re the kids who agree to be social without security,
we’re Barry’s boys.
Now his hat’s in the ring, where Westbrook Pegler once was king. Now he’s too left wing.
So if you don’t want to recognize that old Red China,
Or Canada, or Britain, or South Carolina,
You, too, can join the crew. Tippecanoe and Nixon, too.
Back to Barry, back to cash and carry, back to Barry’s boys.
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get from the left to the right.
Roses are red, violets are blue.
Walter Lippman’s a pinko too.
Alba Kanee Kanaa Kanay (?)
Let’s investigate the PTA!
Barry, Barry make your bid.
I love John Birch, but oh you kid.
Mother, mother, wear a grin
And don’t complain or we’ll turn you in.
Hold the presses, stop the mail!
The Pentagon’s having a one cent sale.
What’s the latest news statistic?
Hootenannies are socialistic.
Shut the door, and lock and latch it.
Here comes Lizzie with a brand new hatchet!
We’re the kids with the nerve, as long as it’s conservative
We’re Barry’s boys.
And we can’t comprehend why our parents aren’t friendlier
To Barry’s boys.
Why, dad once crusaded for Sacco and Vanzetti,
Now all we’re doing is doing the same for John Paul Getty.
Our parents emulated Roosevelt and Farley.
But we just want to grow up to be like Eve and Charlie. (?)
No more college days with Socrates or Plato when you’re Barry’s Boys.
Just organize parades for the abolishment of NATO and the rest–the entire West!
So let’s go back to the days when men were men,
And start the first world war all over again.
That’s right, you tell ‘em son, “Isolationism can be fun!”
Back with Barry’s, not with Lyndon, Ike, or Harry’s
Back with Barry’s Boys.
And remember- an American first, a politician second.
Spoken like a true American politician.
#173
They were wrong about Goldwater getting the nomination:
And so, one by one, proper — moderate — Republicans began floating to the fore.â€
Goldwater has a kind of complex history in Arizona. True, everyone knew he was a rich scion. But he really did quite a bit for Arizona Indians. He really did ride a horse, but then again, people still rode their horses into downtown Phoenix into the 1960s. My impression was, white people in Arizona fawned over him. Some Indians regarded him as quite trustworthy. Not many local Mexicans did.
I remember as a kid, asking my adult relatives why white folks seemed to go crazy about Goldwater, and what was the big deal about him.
“He’s crazy,” the dark brown adults all told me, shaking their heads. I heard that comment in English, Spanish, and Yaqui.
But then, they all voted for Democrats.
The following was written Sunday morning before the book club, which ended before I got home.
=====
From an Amazon review:
Before the Storm is a book that both conservatives and liberals can and should enjoy. Anyone seeking to understand why politics and society are what they are today should start here.
While the Goldwater Campaign is the starting point of the modern Conservative Movement, you have to go back to the New Deal Era, the first Progressive Movement, and even the Gilded Age, to understand the forces that have shaped the modern political landscape.
People like to say that we are an evenly divided country right now — truth be told, we’ve been evenly divided for more than a hundred years. FDR’s victory was dependent on the Solid South — and holding the South meant going slow (or doing nothing) on Civil Rights.
The Dixiecrat exodus to the GOP was an inevitable cultural and political realignment, not some plot hatched in the Nixon White House.
In the Spring of 1945, LIFE Magazine ran an editorial that began I’m a Liberal too, but . . . — the point being, conservative had become such a dirty word, that even conservatives were calling themselves liberals. Likewise, FDR called himself a Liberal because the word progressive had been disgraced by Wilson’s betrayals.
The Gilded Age is the closest thing to a parallel for today’s situation — McKinley and his guru Mark Hanna manipulated corporate cash to divide and defeat the progressives and populists. Mark Hanna is Karl Rove’s hero — but Hanna had a preznit with a brain.
One last thought — long before Goldwater, the Claire Boothe Luce and Henry Luce Foundations were laying the ground work for what would become the modern Conservative Movement.
What must be done.
Leaderless resistance - cell structure - viral marketing. Aggressive forward leaning politic’s. ‘ Good business is where you find it’.
Attack ads. Strong punchy short ads that hit hard.
Strike the pinko rose of Texas out - send him back to Odessa. No more Marxist deficit funding.
No more Leninist foreign policies.
Red fascists like Hitchens, Yoo and Gonzales to be deported. The size and power of the state to be decreased. You can have Marxist-Leninism or you can have a strong America breathing free.
Just say no to Marxism.
Don’t believe me? Think I’m joking?
Fine.
Here’s JFK for ya - listen up in the back.
‘ I don’t like Communists,’ Kerry said. ‘ In fact, I hate them.’
What a damn shame that man ain’t presidentin us today.
That’s a wonderful book. I read it in, appropriately enough, Oxford, MS, scene of one of the famous battles of the conservative revolution.
A lot of the really good political bloggers - and Digby is among the best - have a really good grasp of recent (say 50 years) political history. But there’s a sense I get that these writers operate very much inside the institution - there’s a focus on strategy and tactics that reads the past for clues on campaigns and policy struggles in the future. But for all the attention to context, Digby and Perstein leave out of the picture about Goldwater an additional theme. The resurgence of white nationalism that was reeling from the twin threats of the civil rights movement and a state supporting civil rights. Goldwater’s platform of anti-communism and small government were appealing not so much as ends in themselves but as credible ways to express misgivings about declining power of white racism. Goldwater’s legacy, more than that of Wallace, has to do with allowing white people to feel good about their inner-bigot.
This book is so rich and fascinating; it was good to have a reason to read it again. The biggest lesson in the book, as many have said, for current politics is the importance of the simo;y work of organizing. Complaining about the inexplicable power of the Bonb Shrums of the world, in itself, doesn’t get you anywhere; you need to do the dirty work of taking over local precintcs, school boards, etc.
There is a potential danger in how people read the book. It’s worth nothing that the GOP didn’t take over until they moderated many of Goldwater’s positions; I don’t think it proves that strategic compromise is never necessary. But the Democrats are so far to the other end that it’s a less prominent worry. We need to solve the Tim Roemer problem (i.e. people who think that voting for Bush’s fiscal plans, against Clinton’s, and opposing Roe–in other words, being bad politically and on the merits–makes you the right person to head the DNC) first.
I’m late to the party, of course, but I did want to chip in one thing:
The Perlstein book is a brilliant piece of writing, evocative, evenhanded, and educational with being didactic. But many leftish commentators seem to have missed one of the major points of the book, which is this: the Goldwaterites were, by Perlstein’s own admission, actually kind of admirable (certainly not wholly or even mostly so), not only in their conviction and communitarian spirit but in their more than usually principled small-government conservatism, which seemed to stem from something other than the resentment and support for inherited power by proxy that characterize its popular manifestations today. It’s reasonable to think they were wrong about the nature and ideal role of government - and yes, there’s always incoherence in such a view, the threat of the slippery slope - but Goldwater himself comes across as, to a greater or lesser degree, legitimately admirable in Perlstein’s book. He seems only secondarily a politician, which is something that can be said of very, very few characters in the story (quite the opposite of Reagan, as characterized in those haunting scenes late in the book).
From Digby’s #30-something comment up above:
The importance of this ‘comfortable man’ myth is certainly consistent, and off-putting. But let’s not make the easy mistake of saying Goldwater was Bush’s direct precursor in every way. Perlstein implies similarities in his book, but the differences are even clearer. Those who look to history solely for ratification of their dislike will find exactly what they’re looking for, and nothing more - which redounds to their discredit.
If people are getting out of Perlstein’s work that the connection between Goldwater and his movement was simple and direct, I believe they’re missing one of Perlstein’s most interesting points. Goldwater - as I interpreted Perlstein’s portrayal of the man - would never have been a Goldwaterite. That to me was one of the most hopeful things about the book, and an arrow in the direction of genuine populism, not Bush’s ludicrous simulacrum of it.
The Crooked Timber post raises some interesting issues as well, and is worth reading; the ideological coherence of the leftward ‘netroots’ stems to such a degree from its status as triply oppositional - incensed about Bush, incensed also about the gross politics-as-usual of centrist Democrats, and defiantly carrying the torch for a particular kind of dispersed digital affinity group, which is to say, a generational concern - that the need for positive declarations of principles seems to continue to go, to a degree, unaddressed. I haven’t read Kos’s book; I’ll get around to it soon, with any luck, but Kos’s website is interesting to me only as a news aggregator, and I worry that the book will be as pro forma as much of the commentary at DKos. Still, perhaps some of what I want is in there…
In any case, Perlstein’s book is a great choice, and I look forward to reading (and actually taking part in!) more discussion.
I thought I would post a link here to the review that I wrote of Before the Storm at the time it came out, along with another interesting book about the right that came out at the same time but has not had quite the periodic rediscovery that Rick’s book has had.
http://www.prospect.org/print/.....itt-m.html
My review echoes some of the comments here, especially the last, and links Goldwater as much to McCain as to Bush.
One thing that always surprises me about the reaction to Before the Storm is how much people attribute something to it that’s not there in the book at all. The history ends on election night, 1964. It is not a story about how the right rebuilt after 1964, it’s a story about 1964. However, knowing where the right is today, we read it in a wholly different light, knowing that the seeds of the conservative revival are obviously in there somewhere. To me it’s not so much a didactic book as a wonderful story, which really is a tribute to Perlstein as a writer, because the protagonist, Goldwater, isn’t automatically fascinating, in the way that both LBJ and Nixon are.
Much earlier it was mentioned by several that maybe it was time to bring out ” the Swiftboaters” of the left. Some have asked how we do this.
It’s important to note that we don’t have to become like them to beat them. We DO have to scare them by admitting that - if pushed, we’d go farther than they could ever go, and farther than they can even begin to imagine in their worst nightmares. What makes us progressive (and think that’s a fine word - makes sense too), is that we CHOOSE to NOT move forward with their kind of tactics. However, it’s important that the reich-tys know: we CAN be bigger, badder, meaner, more vicious, and more unforgiving than you can - so watch yourselves, little nutjobs, or we’ll make the wrath of God look like little Miss Mary Sunshine when and if we have to come down on your ass.
There are some ways we can begin to step up our efforts, and step out. The suggestion to point out that organizations like the NRA are being watched just as much as “those damn libruls” is a good start. But it’s also good to give a daily reminder to the reich-tys that we on the left are, in general ALL of these things: A) We’re smarter. As they always tell us, we hold all the college campuses. So let them know they’re right - we are smarter. B)As such, we don’t necessarily NEED guns to kill them. We can do it with almost anything they have in their house or office - and because we’re smarter, as they said, we’ll get away with it. C) Prove it to them. Using LEGAL data mining procedures (sometimes as simple as keeping one’s eyes and ears open), tell them shit about themselves they don’t think anyone else knows. Then remind them, “There are a million ways to die. Physical is just one of them, and one I really don’t want to do to you, because then I’d go to prison. But that says nothing about all the other ways…” D) When the reich-tys finally get up the courage (or arrogance) to ask you if you’re crazy… give ‘em a shit-eating grin and make’ em wonder.
As I often say to the nutjobs I run onto, after I go through these steps, “As your ‘boy’ said, ‘Bring It On.’”
For some reason after this, they usually begin to crawl back under the rocks from whence they came, and rarely confront me about their asinine political views again. Hmmmmm… might be something to the way I do that…
One thing I think is valid about this book - the title. It implies there was a storm, and before it, the conservatives were ignored, almost into non-existance. I’d say the the storm’s done. Time to put things back where they were “Before The Storm.”