Comments on: Labor and Netroots http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:05:29 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: diogenes http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103715 diogenes Sun, 14 May 2006 15:53:27 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103715 <p>c1byrd,</p> <p>People wouldn’t believe the machinations at US Airways. This isn’t the place to go into it, save point out it was part of a larger campaign to gut labor. First, management abused the bankruptcy code to gut USWA in the steel industry. They were the low hanging fruit. Then management brought the campaign to the airlines, beginning with US Airways. ALPA, IAM and AFA are taking mortal hits as the BK campaign roils the industry. Now managment is using BK threats to bring UAW to heel in the auto industry. When managment (aided and abetted by the Administration) is done, traditional unions will be mere tokens.</p> <p>Stern at SEIU sees this threat, and I think that is why he is big into organizing the service industry.</p> <p>Your other question is the biggie. Part of the answer is, so long as we vote guns and abortion, to the exclusion of other interests, Reps win. Someone here said it best - if neither party represents your economic interests, a lot of folks will vote their values. The Democrat party must reconnect with working folks, and netroots is the most effective means I can think of for Joe Public to get the leadership’s attention.</p> <p>I envision a progressive campaign reclaiming the Constitution, which promotes tolerance and respect for individual rights (privacy, due process, etc.)</p> <p>I’d also push hard for the original intent of Article 1: Section 8, as read in light of the preamble!</p> <p>“To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;”</p> <p>“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”</p> <p>Anybody think business has been regulated to promote the general welfare lately?</p> c1byrd,

People wouldn’t believe the machinations at US Airways. This isn’t the place to go into it, save point out it was part of a larger campaign to gut labor. First, management abused the bankruptcy code to gut USWA in the steel industry. They were the low hanging fruit. Then management brought the campaign to the airlines, beginning with US Airways. ALPA, IAM and AFA are taking mortal hits as the BK campaign roils the industry. Now managment is using BK threats to bring UAW to heel in the auto industry. When managment (aided and abetted by the Administration) is done, traditional unions will be mere tokens.

Stern at SEIU sees this threat, and I think that is why he is big into organizing the service industry.

Your other question is the biggie. Part of the answer is, so long as we vote guns and abortion, to the exclusion of other interests, Reps win. Someone here said it best – if neither party represents your economic interests, a lot of folks will vote their values. The Democrat party must reconnect with working folks, and netroots is the most effective means I can think of for Joe Public to get the leadership’s attention.

I envision a progressive campaign reclaiming the Constitution, which promotes tolerance and respect for individual rights (privacy, due process, etc.)

I’d also push hard for the original intent of Article 1: Section 8, as read in light of the preamble!

“To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;”

“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Anybody think business has been regulated to promote the general welfare lately?

]]> By: c1byrd http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103590 c1byrd Sun, 14 May 2006 13:39:57 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103590 <p>Diogenes, I worked for Piedmont Airlines also, staying with USAirways through its latest iteration as America West. The real story there is what was done to all of the workers at that company. It’s not pretty, is unreported and wouldn’t be believed if reported. The larger question of why quite a few labor union members don’t support progressives, don’t vote in their economic self interest, and love Ronald Reagan confounded me the total of my time there. There are people trying to understand that, i.e “What’s the matter with Kansas?”, etc. I know NAFTA, GATT, Democratic Senator Terry Sanford promising to our legislative committee to support a bill banning permanent strike replacements and then voting against the same, caused a lot of disillusion with the Democratic Party. Interesting post and I wish I knew you.</p> Diogenes, I worked for Piedmont Airlines also, staying with USAirways through its latest iteration as America West. The real story there is what was done to all of the workers at that company. It’s not pretty, is unreported and wouldn’t be believed if reported. The larger question of why quite a few labor union members don’t support progressives, don’t vote in their economic self interest, and love Ronald Reagan confounded me the total of my time there. There are people trying to understand that, i.e “What’s the matter with Kansas?”, etc. I know NAFTA, GATT, Democratic Senator Terry Sanford promising to our legislative committee to support a bill banning permanent strike replacements and then voting against the same, caused a lot of disillusion with the Democratic Party. Interesting post and I wish I knew you.

]]> By: Frank http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103577 Frank Sun, 14 May 2006 13:22:04 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103577 <p>I see we have NSA infiltrating this blog. First this blog erased my comment before I even finished and posted, it, then they erase my posted comment after I complained about the before posting erasure. Note to all: never compose or edit your msg in the comment box. In that box all your clicks are real time monitored by this blog before being posted. Cut and past your comments to the comment box provided, then hit the “post” button quickly. Nice going Firedoglake….I wish you would practice what you preach</p> I see we have NSA infiltrating this blog. First this blog erased my comment before I even finished and posted, it, then they erase my posted comment after I complained about the before posting erasure. Note to all: never compose or edit your msg in the comment box. In that box all your clicks are real time monitored by this blog before being posted. Cut and past your comments to the comment box provided, then hit the “post” button quickly. Nice going Firedoglake….I wish you would practice what you preach

]]> By: pmorlan http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103543 pmorlan Sun, 14 May 2006 11:22:23 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103543 <p>Diogenes, thanks for the link to the interesting piece onEdwards and for your good post about labor. I worked on Edwards’ presidential campaign and still feel, for those of us who are interested in social justice, that he is still the best candidate out there. I just hope he can figure out how to get the media to focus on those issues.</p> Diogenes, thanks for the link to the interesting piece onEdwards and for your good post about labor. I worked on Edwards’ presidential campaign and still feel, for those of us who are interested in social justice, that he is still the best candidate out there. I just hope he can figure out how to get the media to focus on those issues.

]]> By: professor rat http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103420 professor rat Sun, 14 May 2006 05:56:14 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103420 <p>Don’t forget the one big union! Industrial Workers of the world have some great stories to tell. These folks practically invented ‘ Just-in-time-engineering’! ( social engineering )<br /> Also the great CNT anarcho-syndicalist union peaked along with the Democratic party vote - so there were synchonicities there once. There could be once again! Thanks Diogenis and thanks J,Rand P @FDL</p> Don’t forget the one big union! Industrial Workers of the world have some great stories to tell. These folks practically invented ‘ Just-in-time-engineering’! ( social engineering )
Also the great CNT anarcho-syndicalist union peaked along with the Democratic party vote – so there were synchonicities there once. There could be once again! Thanks Diogenis and thanks J,Rand P @FDL

]]> By: Rose http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103401 Rose Sun, 14 May 2006 05:39:19 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103401 <p>Thank yound Diogenes for this good discussion on unions and their impact on politics. The first sign for Kerry in our neighborhood was put up by an union member - a neighorhood that had more Bush signs than Kerry. I think the problem for most of us is that we don’t know the history of the labor movement in this country. Who learns about Mother Jones in our high schools? We are not familiar with the term “living wages.” But what most of us know are the myths of high union wages, union corruption and so on. With more discussions like this, especially personal stories, we can learn and agree on viable issues that need to be addressed by our candidates, as well as learn how to organize for the common good..</p> Thank yound Diogenes for this good discussion on unions and their impact on politics. The first sign for Kerry in our neighborhood was put up by an union member – a neighorhood that had more Bush signs than Kerry. I think the problem for most of us is that we don’t know the history of the labor movement in this country. Who learns about Mother Jones in our high schools? We are not familiar with the term “living wages.” But what most of us know are the myths of high union wages, union corruption and so on. With more discussions like this, especially personal stories, we can learn and agree on viable issues that need to be addressed by our candidates, as well as learn how to organize for the common good..

]]> By: darrelplant http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103395 darrelplant Sun, 14 May 2006 05:30:37 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103395 <p>Gentleman Jim (#161), one thing you can’t forget about the Vietnam era is that the was was begun under a Democratic administration. The unions who suported the Democratic agenda supported the war for both patriotic and economic reasons. </p> <p>A lot of Democratic politicians continued to support the aims of the Vietnam war long after the protests began. As you may remember from the 1968 convention, it was a Democratic administration in Chicago supported by the party leadership that was in charge during the demonstrations there. The mainstream party leadership still supported the war in ‘72, which is one of the reasons McGovern had such lackluster party backing.</p> <p>So yeah, union members supported the war, along with an awful lot of the Democratic party leadership and rank-and-file in ‘68. The Democratic leadership didn’t come out and say that the war was a bad idea or that they’d made a mistake. They didn’t explain why it was a bad idea. And after the Tet Offensive, Johnson pulling out of the race, and dozens of massive riots following the assassination of Dr. King in the spring, a lot of union members jumped ship. Some of them never came back.</p> Gentleman Jim (#161), one thing you can’t forget about the Vietnam era is that the was was begun under a Democratic administration. The unions who suported the Democratic agenda supported the war for both patriotic and economic reasons.

A lot of Democratic politicians continued to support the aims of the Vietnam war long after the protests began. As you may remember from the 1968 convention, it was a Democratic administration in Chicago supported by the party leadership that was in charge during the demonstrations there. The mainstream party leadership still supported the war in ‘72, which is one of the reasons McGovern had such lackluster party backing.

So yeah, union members supported the war, along with an awful lot of the Democratic party leadership and rank-and-file in ‘68. The Democratic leadership didn’t come out and say that the war was a bad idea or that they’d made a mistake. They didn’t explain why it was a bad idea. And after the Tet Offensive, Johnson pulling out of the race, and dozens of massive riots following the assassination of Dr. King in the spring, a lot of union members jumped ship. Some of them never came back.

]]> By: Jon http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103388 Jon Sun, 14 May 2006 05:24:20 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103388 <p>Peterr says: May 13th, 2006 at 4:51 pm </p> <p>Thanks for the post about Harvey Milk. It was really interesting and instructive.</p> Peterr says: May 13th, 2006 at 4:51 pm

Thanks for the post about Harvey Milk. It was really interesting and instructive.

]]> By: jane_jericho http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103381 jane_jericho Sun, 14 May 2006 05:20:11 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103381 <p>Diogenes @ 164 —Thanks. The split seems like such a momentous event and it’s not always easy for an outsider to follow what’s happening. </p> <p>There was a discussion in last Sunday’s post on <i>Crashing the Gate</i> about the relative lack of political training, mentoring, and support structures for progressives. Activist union locals seem like they might be a political training ground par excellence. It’s very good to see you here sharing those experiences with us.</p> <p>I’m surely EPU’d. Thank you again. Hope we see you around.</p> Diogenes @ 164 —Thanks. The split seems like such a momentous event and it’s not always easy for an outsider to follow what’s happening.

There was a discussion in last Sunday’s post on Crashing the Gate about the relative lack of political training, mentoring, and support structures for progressives. Activist union locals seem like they might be a political training ground par excellence. It’s very good to see you here sharing those experiences with us.

I’m surely EPU’d. Thank you again. Hope we see you around.

]]> By: LJ/Aquaria http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103288 LJ/Aquaria Sun, 14 May 2006 03:54:07 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/13/labor-and-netroots/#comment-103288 <p>Oh, and folks, sorry, but I’ve worked in three union shops now (represented by ILGWU, IBEW and APWU–California and Texas). Way too many people working in union-shop jobs are Reagan Democrats, at best. These are the people who listen to Rush and Hannity–<i>and agree with everything they say</i>, even about unions! Whatever it takes to win over the Joe-Six-Packers out there, that’s what you’ll need to do with an eerie number of union people, too.</p> Oh, and folks, sorry, but I’ve worked in three union shops now (represented by ILGWU, IBEW and APWU–California and Texas). Way too many people working in union-shop jobs are Reagan Democrats, at best. These are the people who listen to Rush and Hannity–and agree with everything they say, even about unions! Whatever it takes to win over the Joe-Six-Packers out there, that’s what you’ll need to do with an eerie number of union people, too.

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